August 27, 2025 • 44 mins
Explore the controversial investigation led by Dr. J. Allen Hynek, the debunked 'swamp gas' theory, and the role of Project Blue Book. We also discuss the impact of government interference and public demand for truth.
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Guest Links:
Click here for OUCH! Was that a ghost? Links
Resources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_%22swamp_gas%22_UFO_reports
https://www.michiganpublic.org/environment-science/2017-03-28/aliens-or-swamp-gas-the-mystery-of-michigans-most-famous-ufo-sighting-lives-on
https://bentley.umich.edu/news-events/magazine/flying-saucers-and-swamp-gas/
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/sites/default/files/pdf_documents/library/document/0054/4525586.pdf
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4892
https://gandernewsroom.com/2023/03/07/michigans-swamp-gas-ufo-real-imagined-or-a-government-cover-up/
https://www.hillsdalehistoricalsociety.org/alien-invasion
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+type+of+environment+is+found+in+dexter+or+hillsdale+michigan&sca_esv=304cd5078918df87&sxsrf=AE3TifORO9RtWD8alm5oDFbsAYDNH6PM4g%3A1752433315439&ei=owJ0aJLVGoyjptQPmN6H8AQ&oq=what+type+of+environment+is+found+in+Dexter+&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiLHdoYXQgdHlwZSBvZiBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCBpcyBmb3VuZCBpbiBEZXh
Click here for merch sites, patreon site, website, to donate, and join me on social media!
Guest Links:
Click here for OUCH! Was that a ghost? Links
Resources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_%22swamp_gas%22_UFO_reports
https://www.michiganpublic.org/environment-science/2017-03-28/aliens-or-swamp-gas-the-mystery-of-michigans-most-famous-ufo-sighting-lives-on
https://bentley.umich.edu/news-events/magazine/flying-saucers-and-swamp-gas/
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/sites/default/files/pdf_documents/library/document/0054/4525586.pdf
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4892
https://gandernewsroom.com/2023/03/07/michigans-swamp-gas-ufo-real-imagined-or-a-government-cover-up/
https://www.hillsdalehistoricalsociety.org/alien-invasion
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+type+of+environment+is+found+in+dexter+or+hillsdale+michigan&sca_esv=304cd5078918df87&sxsrf=AE3TifORO9RtWD8alm5oDFbsAYDNH6PM4g%3A1752433315439&ei=owJ0aJLVGoyjptQPmN6H8AQ&oq=what+type+of+environment+is+found+in+Dexter+&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiLHdoYXQgdHlwZSBvZiBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCBpcyBmb3VuZCBpbiBEZXh
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Thank you for tuning in to Cryptids, Creeps and Conspiracy Podcasts,
where we delve into crazy creatures, evading extraterrestrials, horrifying haunted places,
the unexplained, and the conspiracies that surround them.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
The following content will.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
More than likely involve explicit language and materials, so listener
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(00:38):
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Speaker 2 (00:41):
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Speaker 1 (00:43):
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So grab your rose colored glasses, skeptical suits, and hold
on to your butts as we teleport into the realm
of the CCC podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Hope see soon.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Welcome back everyone, with me again to wrap this up
as miss Lists from OUCH was at a ghost so
this is gonna be entertaining. Last week Lists a little
under the weather and we had to evacuate quickly afterwards
because she was sick he's stomach. And then this week
I just got off a fourteen hour puke fest.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So we'll see how this goes. But yeah, so let's
do a recap here.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Let's see one. The first one was Dexter, the UFO sighting.
There we had the football shape the size of a car.
But then you said looked like an eyeball, which is
straight up legit. Go check out the stuff. I put
a picture of it on social media.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So that was the main one.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And this was like a family saw it, law enforcement
saw it. It was very substantiated. They ended up calling
for help.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
But then the.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Second one was at Hillsdale at that college and a
whole at least one full dormitory full of women, and
I guess there was other students there saw it. More
law enforcements saw it. The sheriff, ohait hold On, he
was the what did they call him? The Civil Defense Director?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, how the fuck did I remember that?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I don't know. I remember Gidget, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Gidget the reporter.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
But all these people see it and then they bring
it up. They take it to the federal level, ignores them,
sweeps under the rug, just forgets about it. But the
awesome sheriff persists and then even reaches out to what
was the congressional level. Yeah, and it's hey, do you
something about this the congressional person.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It was a Vivian.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I don't. I only remember I remember Gidget and Mermaids. Gidget.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Oh my god, I forgot the word.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And I was like, we were talking about Aliens and
she was noting me about to say it was like
she thought Atlantis was Aliens. And I started dying laughing.
And these people are looking at me like I'm fucking crazy,
because they don't I'm the weirdo.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
So I'm like, oh, she thought Atlantis was Aliens.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
That's so funny.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
And they were just like, okay, like your nuts woman.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
But I was just busting out laughing. I didn't know
ifody knew what the hell I was laughing about.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
It was a good time, but yeah, I think it
was Vivian something Vivian, And you know, they took it up.
They pulled a bunch of strings and actually got Project
blue Book involved, and they sent in a doctor, j
Allen Heineg, which is what we're going to be covering today,
all right, So go.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Back and listen. You can get all the deats.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It's got the descriptions and the eyewitnesses accounts and stuff
like that. But this week's just going to be a
little bit of background behind the guy who did it
and the investigation itself and all of that fun jazz.
So before we start, do you have anything I always
ask you every week, and the answer is always the same,
do you have anything going on this come over?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I just finished a collab Twisted Tails came on and
we did a little I'm about to edit that when
we get off.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So I've got some stuff coming down the pike.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
My boyfriend's gonna come on at some point and we're
gonna do a mental health episode. I'm gonna see about
getting some new guests on and just see what's up
with that. We still have other things that we gotta
talk about because I gotta scroll point down to part three. Okay,
Like I said, we're gonna start this week off with
a little background into who led the investigation and put
(04:43):
it into perspective of the process that they took. So
the man's spearheading the Michigan UFO sightings in the spring
of nineteen sixty six was Joseph alan Heinek. And this
is so weird. I'm like, it's so old. He was
born in nineteen ten TV seems like ancient, and he
(05:05):
grew up in Chicago, which I.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Tell you how gross it is when people act like
nineteen nineties is ancient. Oh my god, isn't it like
you were born before two thousand.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
See, I have this problem where I have to use
data births at work and I have to figure out
whether or not the person is a minor and can
consent or not, and anything over two thousand.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
My brain's oh, you need a signature and that. I'm like, wait, shit, yep.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
You're an adult. I officially feel old. I don't feel
like I should be this old.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
No, it's the worst when you're like talking about any
musician like Michael Jackson and they're like who's that and
you're like.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
What just literally what this just happened? So at work
I was talking to him. I guess we're gonna derail.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Sorry, guys, I.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Was talking about Rocky and bowl Eagle Natasha exactly, and
I'm like Rocky Bowy and like the nurses were like, what.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
You no, Rocky and bullwinkleed They're like no.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And this so security guard who's more salt than pepper, and.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
He's yeah, I know that. He's like you know, the
squirrel and the moose.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And I'm like, oh my god, that's how you identify
with That's the worst. When you're in the room and
you're like, oh, I identify with this person. We're in
the same level everyone else in the room. I'm like,
oh my god.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
This guy's probably in his sixties and I'm like, oh no.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
But you're like, we have never heard of this ever,
and I'm just like google it. But I felt so
old at two seconds, I thought they were messing with me.
But they were literally deer in the headlights, so they
had no idea.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah, knocks us down a few pegs and I figured out.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
He was born in nineteen ten, grew up in Chicago.
At an early age, he developed scarlet fever and was
unable to leave his bed, which I'm surprised he was survived.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
That's something like white people out back.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
In the day.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, it was in his bedridden time that he forged
a fascination with the field of astrology. Astrology, I'm heavy
on the ass today, but a bumpch. But as a
young man, Heinek enrolled in the University of Chicago and
graduated with his bachelor's in nineteen thirty one and walked
out in nineteen thirty five with a PhD in astrophysics.
(07:24):
So dude's smart. Dam yeah, he's smart. The next year
he was added to Ohio State University's faculty roster and
eventually became the director of Ohio State McMillan Observatory. So
dudes make a progress right. He is progressing. He is motivated,
he's driven. He's not just sitting in one spot being
a professor for his whole life, please, right. And that's
(07:47):
one thing I do like about him is he always
is willing to learn. He wants to learn and better himself.
It's just awesome. In nineteen forty eight, doctor Heineg was
recruited by US Air Force to be an astronomical addition
to the Project Sign and from for those of everybody
I guess out there, most people know are familiar with
(08:07):
Project Blue Book, but Project Sign was a team that
was tasked with tackling the mystery of UFOs og UFO
investigations then later took on the form as Project Grudge
and then the infamous Project Blue Book. So it's one
turned into the other to like metamorphosized into why am
(08:29):
I using big words today? Into what it is but
we're familiar with nowadays. One of the things that I
found that he was first noted as like in his
role with the Air Force was in the investigation at Roswell,
And we all know how the government portrayed the UFO
(08:53):
and all of that in Roswell. So that kind of
sets you up, like puts the ball on the tee
or his mindset and his viewpoint on aliens in UFOs.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
He for one second, Yeah, I am the least knowledgeable
about aliens. I've said this many times. What exactly was
for Oswall? Like, just do the quickest synopsis of what
it is, because I honestly don't know the whole story there.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
You know the leather balloon thing, Oh, there's a crash site,
so weather balloon they found a body, Yeah it was
that's Oswell craft crashes. Yeah they get Then the conspiracy
is they have an alien either live or and or debt.
I can't remember exactly what the life status was. But
then they're like, oh, it wasn't a UFO, it was
just a weather balloon. That's where that came from.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, it's like the biggest if you think of cover up.
So you have the ones like Betty and Barney Hill.
Oh my gosh, I totally they were Tom Walton. Yeah, abductions.
So you have Tom Walton, you have Betty and Barney Hill.
You so they were abductions. But Roswell is huge for
(10:04):
the actual craft coming down, crashing and having an actual being.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Like here, okay, okay, sorry, no, you're fine, You're fine here.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
In that situation, he was claiming the concept of conducting
these alien encounters that was quote unquote utterly ridiculous. That's
literally what he said. The whole concept of aliens was ridiculous.
And then doctor Heinig's role in radical research was to
dissect and debunk reports through the use of meteorology and astronomy.
(10:34):
Like he was literally there to debunk that was his purpose, right, No,
it isn't like I said. It set him up to.
This is how it is. I don't believe in it.
It was Saturn or Venus or a star or whatever,
astral farts, who knows anything. They could be explained with
(10:56):
something that physically exists that we are aware of.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
That highball that's from the man on the moon.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Don't worry about it, yes, exactly, don't worry about it.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
So he started off, like I said, very closed minded,
and he wrote off most of the accounts as misidentifications
or simply just mundane phenomena that you know, it was.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Steam or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Mainly the stars and planets and all that, because that
was his area of expertise. But after a while he
started seeing more and more reputable reports and he just
couldn't confidently close a case and say completely that it
did not exist. He started having more and more that
he could not debunk, and he began to see the
(11:40):
increase of encounters that involved information from radar systems, pilots,
police officers, Like it wasn't Joe Schmoe or I guess
not to discredit the family the man or family from.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Two weeks ago.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
They're a small town, farming community family that sees some
random shit.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
It come down, like I can understand that. But like
he's seeing more and more accounts of people that are
more credible. I guess you could say in the eyes
of researchers like police officers, that are just generally taken
more seriously than just random people off the street.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah, it's someone with something to lose, well, not to lose,
but like to they'll easier to ridicule.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I think you're right, though, I think something to lose
is right because back then you got to think if
you said something and you were in that role. Even today, Yeah,
if you say, oh I saw this, I always saw that,
you're immediately under the like you're on the chopping block,
you're under the microscope.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
People just automatically say you're crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You lose your job, you can't get hired anywhere because
people think you're nuts.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So it's really unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But like you said, there's people that have things to lose,
and to me that adds a little bit of validation
because there is everything to lose in their situation.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Oh, Because of all these things that he's seeing, Heineg
began to believe that some sighting should undergo scientific inquiry,
not just oh I'm going to debunk it, but actually
research what is going on, because it was so prominent
that things are happening now, so he starts to shift gears.
I wouldn't say that he was a believer necessarily. It
(13:19):
was almost like he seemed, Okay, I know something's happening.
I'm having a hard time explaining it, but there's got
to be an explanation, and I think that we need
to scientifically research it.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, not just like there were.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Binoculars in the antennas, but maybe I don't know what
they were using at the time. But he was very
much so getting more into wanting to do the research
and actually study it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, he wanted to find the actual origin, not just
blindly believe a weird theory and not write it off.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Which again is his drive. I think you went to school.
He got his PhDs in astrophysics. Like he wants to
know how and why and when and which is great.
I think that's a good trait to Heck.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Get that I have problems that you can't solve, and
I'll go insane till I figure them out. I totally
understand that. Yeah, and I respect that.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, I'm with you one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And in nineteen seventy two, he presented the Close encounter
classification system within the UFO experience a scientific inquiry.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So when you hear.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
First what is the encounter of the first kind, second kind,
third kite? That's his classification system.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So what does each one to mean? Oh God, I
address that. I told you I'm such a novice at UFOA.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
But this is why I put extra I put extra
stuff in so that way we could walk away more
educated than we started.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
All right.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
So you have a close encounter of the first kind,
which is a visual sighting of a UFO within five
hundred feet or right around one hundred and fifty two
point five meters, You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Then you have close encounters of the.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Second kind, which is sightings with physical effects such as
burn marks, redness to the skin, the engine of your car, dying,
anything that you can.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
See, touch feel here.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I've known of multiple cases where they see a UFO
and they get like conjunctivitis in their eyes or whatever.
Their eyes get all infected and grows, and it happens
a lot or radiation burn.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I've heard that. I've never heard conjunction ighte.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, they get conjunctivities, dude, I've heard it in multiple accounts.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's definitely weird. When I first started noticing it, I
was like, that is weird, I would say with you,
I'm like, huh.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But so basically, anything with side effects or physical abnormalities,
that's the second kind. And then the encounters of a
third kind are sightings of UFOs involving entities such as
humanoid figures, robots, or other animated beings or automated beings.
So you have the first kind is oh, look way
over there, there's something, or oh, look there, I can
(15:52):
see it, but I don't see anything else. Second kind
is I see something and I'm now yes, spookers in
your eyes or burns on the skin. Then third kind
is holy shit, there is a thing in front of me.
There's something coming out of it or something driving it.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
A flatwood monster, yes.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Exactly now.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Shortly after the Michigan UFO sightings, doctor Heinek arranged an
investigation on behalf of plot Project Blue Book. He primarily
sat behind a desk reading the accounts, inhibiting progress until
he got his ass out from behind that desk and
started field research.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Not that I was judging. I wasn't judging at all.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Then a drawing of the craft started getting circulated, which
is the one we talked about earlier with the you
have a football, you got the dome on the top,
you got the two little antented thing, these little legs
at the bottom, and it's got that quilted grid type
pattern on it. So even a self proclaimed quote unquote
expert that was from California, which I'm not really sure
(16:54):
where they were chiming in, but anyway, they construed the
claim that the UFO was visiting these specific sites to
suck up the swamp water and replenish and recharge its batteries.
So either it was cooling like a cooling system, or
it needed the water to recharge something, which like I said,
the algae and stuff like that, it could be organic
matter that it needs to do something, and maybe there's
(17:17):
more of it in the swamp.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I don't know, but that was one claim. So once
he yeah, once he got in, Heineg dove right into.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
The interviewing process with witnesses and searching for any witness
or any evidence. Jesus sorry about that, any evidence the
sightings were substantiated. After speaking with the manor family, he
admitted to the sheriff that he was not sure what
to make of the sightings. Again a guy who debunks everything.
His job is to debunk. And he told the staff
(17:47):
he's like, man, I really don't know what to say
about this. This is like almost stumped him. Like he's
considering it.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
A little later, he took a phone call from federal
authorities and after that was like.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
No, I don't know what you're talking about. This can't
be real. This isn't real. Nothing's happening the men in black.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
So he yes, he says this, and then he gets
a call from the government and he's let me switch
some gears. So on the twenty third of March, just
a couple of days after Dexter sightings, Heinik was a
speaker at a press conference that demanded that was demanded
by the public. So again he's saying these things. He
gets a call from the government. Now he's on a
(18:28):
press conference. He was insistent that most of the witnesses
in Michigan only saw yellow, red, and green lights but
heard no sounds and saw no object. When we know
damn well that we have multiple people saw something like
an actual craft. And I put some quotes in here
(18:51):
because I wanted to do a justice by putting exactly
what I could find. So these are a summary of
his press conference, and I'm just like dying here. The
incidents of the Manor Farm in Hillsdale College were a
result of rotting vegetation in lowland areas. The vegetation created
gases that were trapped in the winter. During the spring thaw,
(19:13):
and the gases were released. This swamp gas phenomena could
cause the lights and even sounds.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Heine called it highly localized.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
So I'm just picturing like this farting sound is all
I could see. But there's no ship that would come
out of it.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Exactly a farting old potato.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
That's all I'm hearing out of that whole thing. He
just said, go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Oh it's just swamp gas.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And then it says, quote A dismal swamp is a
most likely place to visit from outer space end quote,
which is what he also said at the press conference, says,
my interrogations were made triply difficult because of the ambiguous press,
radio and TV men. It was impossible to talk quietly
with anyone or quietly. Oh my gosh, whoa, I just
(20:04):
what elmer fudd.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
We keep it quietly.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Oh jeez, talk quietly with anyone without having a microphone
placed in front of your face. I was always importuned
for just a word, or will you answer this one question.
It is difficult to describe to one who wasn't there
in the general bedlamb Mister Manner, the chief protagonist in
the Dexter case, reportedly complained that I had spent very
(20:29):
little time with him. It was virtually impossible to do so.
Several times I was waiting and anxious to talk with him,
but he was occupied with several reporters. Here again, is
where some assistants would have come in handy. They could
have diverted the reporters while I talked to Manner. One
needs some clever interference to run for him.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
For cases like this, it is virtually impossible to do
it single handedly. And thus the concept of swamp guess
was born. So that press conference is what this what
started the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I would give anything to hear what that conversation was
on the phone from the government.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I know that's what I was thinking. I'm like, dude,
it's got to be something.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Is it money? Is it threats?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
But he's been the head debunker for years.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, does he get access to a secret bathroom? What
does he get?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
He gets a secret office by the bathroom, or he
gets the window office.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Front road parking spot.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
He gets a Oh my gosh, and what do they
call that? The light the overhead light in a building?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Oh? Sky skylight?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, he gets a skylight.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I don't know why. I'm gonna say, like a basket
of edible arrangements. I don't know why when you went
like that, I'm like, oh, she means edible arrangements my.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Finger in putting of the sky.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, that's what I connect, all right.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I would love to know what was said, because, like
I said, he starts off. No, he goes to talks
to the man or family, sees what's going on again.
There's that thing in the grass that they see and
they clearly saw something, and then other people saw it too,
and so then he's, oh, I don't know what to
make of this. Holy shit, this is weird. And then
(22:22):
takes the phone call and then he's like, oh no,
it's swamp gas.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
His excuses suck, He's I didn't get to talk to
him enough. He could still easily read all those reports
that the reporters wrote, this is what he said. He
still has access to what the guy said.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
But if he's asking specific questions trying to get particular answers,
they're not going to be the same questions that a
reporter's gonna ask.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Then try again, don't just be like, oh, I couldn't
talk to him so and it's.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
It's yeah, it's government investigations.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
So you got to think they don't want the press
or public to know and interfere with the investigation.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Like I understand that. Like you don't question a purpose
in public.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Then bring them in to question them. Don't sit on
the front lawn pushing through.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Well, supposedly there's like a horde, like swarms of these things,
like these people, these things like they're monsters.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
In some cases they are. But to me, I've got
a thing here.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
It should be noted that even the House leader Gerald Ford,
labeled the swamp guest theory as flippant and leaned heavily
on the need to have more thorough look stating quote,
I think we owe it to the people to establish
credibility regarding UFOs and to produce the greatest possible enlightenment
on the subject.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Touche, mister Ford, Like we owe it to the people
to get down to brass tags, like what the fuck's
happening here?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Who was the president? Then? I don't know that was
what forties?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Truman sixty six?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Oh sixty six? Why do I think you said forties?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Let's google it. I'm really about it.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I had a trivia game last night and I had
to do with what's on a penny, what's on a nickel,
what's on a diamond? What's on a quarter? The quarter
I'm Mike is Washington. But then as everyone's talking, I
kept questioning, what's on the penny? Nickel?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
And dice? Do you know Lincoln? It?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
No, it's not Jefferson on a nickel? The nickels got me.
But I know that Lincoln's on the penny, Washington's on
the quarter. So who's on the It's not Jefferson?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Right?
Speaker 4 (24:36):
No.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
See, the more you think about it, the quicker you
spiral the knickel, it's Lincoln's the penny, jeffersonson nickel?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Where els the dime?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, but the more you think about it, like that's
why I just let you just go, because you spiral.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Wa wait here have glasses?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So the president in nineteen sixty six was Lyndon B.
John's Okay, I'm not good with history. Oh I only
know who's in office now, that's it. I liked that
somebody at a high level was like, no, we need
to look into this, we need answers, and basically we
(25:17):
need to get somebody back out there. So he also
shot down the Fitzpatrick photograph by stating that it was
in fact the moon and venus.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Now I'm going to show you Fitzpatrick like it' spell.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
You can cut this. But do you know Johnson when
I think of him, if you ever look into him,
he had a habit of just literally whipping his penis
out really yeah, and he called it jumbo and would
whip it out and show everybody.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Sorry, we are going to go.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Back to the previously mentioned Bud van Horn, who was
inherently irate after heine undoubtedly dismissed illuminating lights seen above
the Arbitrarium or Arboretum as simple swamp gas. So he
was the sheriff that showed up and saw it, and
he was like, the hell it was, I know this
(26:13):
before he's saying it's swamp gass, Like I saw what
I saw. And my thing too, is I understand that
the gases that are trapped in there could cause hallucinations
or whatnot, but they wouldn't cause the same hallucination pollution,
Oh my god, hallucination for that many people, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
You said that they were all different distances apart, too,
So you're not getting the same amount of gas.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, exactly, So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
So that's bullshit, yest.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
So he went on the record, armed with fifteen points
and insisted that the investigation was utterly unscientific. According to
Van Horn, the dispatchion investigators didn't even have the courtesy
to come out to out of their cars while cruising
down Barber Drive looking for quote unquote evidence.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Didn't even stop.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
They just drove by to him, calling them out.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Oh yeah, I was like, dude, this guy.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
He's badass.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I thoroughly enjoy this man. He total props to me.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Now.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Additional claims were that they only initiated interview with only
three witnesses, of which they disregarded many of the details
that they described. Anyway, So they interviewed three people and
then didn't put into consideration most of the details they
were reporting.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Because they didn't fit their narrative.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Then Sheriff Harvey.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Also spoke out against the conclusions with quote, with all
due respect to doctor Heinek, I'm not ready to accept
this weak excuse of gas and marshes or gas from
mars quote.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Like that is like the most tongue in cheek dude,
Like dis.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I'm not gonna do this, because come on, dude, like
this weak ass excuse.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
You know he was thinking it.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
He's respectfully no, I'm gonna say no.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
When presenting it, oh my gosh. When presented with a
magazine depicting Jordan Adavski's saucer, he dismissed it, claiming the
object was merely a chicken feeder. That's the one we
were talking about. Okay, so the first one I showed
you that looked like a bell. Heinik was like, oh no,
it's just a chicken feeder in the air.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
What does a chicken feeder look like?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
You put this all this at the top and it
runs down the bottom. There's like a trough at the bottom.
Does it look like that?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Though I don't know what one looks like from nineteen
sixty six, maybe yeah, it is more saucer e it.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
To me, it looks a little bit like the Nazi bell,
which I will be covering as something.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
I know that because Joe from film Joe came on
and told that God and I was like, oh my gosh,
it was a twist. I knew it was coming in.
It was still crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
It just does look a lot like the Nazi bell.
The one in the photograph does.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
On April six, so keep in mind these are in March.
The end of March.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
On April six, Heinik Air Force Secretary Harold Brown and
Project Bluebook chief Major Hector Quintillatia Quintilla like it's a
tortilla media stood before the House Armed Services Committee. The
Air Force finally caved after all the attention and public
(29:32):
and said, quote, scientific observers are sent scientific observers to
further delve into recent sightings end quote. So with enough
pressure they finally caved and said that they need to
send more scientific researchers. They then assigned physicist Edward Codin
Cook Condon a two year task to continue with the
(29:53):
inquiry to find answers and determine whether or not the
government should provide funding to keep the research going.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
On the topic.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
There were no other conclusions given that I could find
aside from swamp gas story, and they were sticking to it.
What do you think about the theory of swamp gas.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I think it sucks. I concur I'm still farting potatoes
is all he described to me. That doesn't explain anything.
I get that, Yeah, gases can't come out like you say,
maybe there's some kind of toxic whatever happening, but that
wouldn't mean that every single person would see the same
thing exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
And what are your thoughts. Did something extraordinarily extraterrestrial occur
in the skies of Michigan's in nineteen sixty.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Six, I honestly don't know, because the military bases in
that call could have been the government being like, hey,
that was a test, we were running top secret. You
can't say a word about it.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
That actually makes sense. I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I just don't think that there's enough to say, oh,
it's aliens. I'm not saying it it's not. I just
think that we don't know enough to say, oh, it's aliens.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
For me, it's no one saw there was a dome
and no one mentioned a pilot. Now Granted, it was
also very dark, and it's the sixties, so it's not
like everything was illuminated.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
They were.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Off in a distance, it'd be hard to see if
there's anything driving anyway, right, excuse me.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But it never lands. No one gets out. Essentially, the
theory is that they suck.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
The water up, but it'd have to be specific to
the swamp because there's other masses of water in Michigan
that are not swamp areas.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Now you know a lot about aliens, have there been
other cases where there's hovering above swamps, So.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
This is the main one that I know about.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
I think I've heard a couple others encounters that have
them in the swampy areas, but I don't remember it
being Usually it's like wooded areas or a field space
in between wooded areas, almost like they're being stratig like
trying to hide in the trees.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Like Tom Walton. It was in the woods.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
These guys were logging in the middle of VFE and
just so happened to see this thing come down and
skunked him and then took him and I guess fixed him.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think they were like, oh shit, my bad.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
If you step on a bug and you're like, oh,
let me fix that, but you can't fix it.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
But they could, but.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I don't really I've heard a couple, but not a
whole bunch. But who's to say that they just.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Haven't been reported.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
That's true. When swamps are so bad, we no longer
need swamps.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
True.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I'm just thinking a lot of swamps are very large.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
They think of the peat bogs and stuff like that,
like they're just or where you see you get skunk
ape and stuff like that, and there's swampy areas, and
it seems like there's usually quite a bit of cover
in a swamp. It's not like you just have this
big open swamp from what I've seen. I've never been
to swamps, but it almost seems like there's usually because
(33:05):
of the outga and everything, there's other vegetation around.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
It's pretty thick.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
So you think they're more just strategic about their swamp covering.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Now, I'm just wondering because a lot of people don't
trudge and they don't go trudged through the swamps. Some
people do, but I feel like the coverage is gonna
be better. There's not gonna be as many people and
stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I don't dismiss it, but I don't think there's enough
to say, oh, yes, it's aliens.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, this would be considered close encounter of the first kind.
And I struggle with those because there is no evidence,
there's no physical thing if the manor family was close
enough to see the gridlines on this thing when they
rolled up to it with their little handed dandy flashlights.
I feel like, now, granted they run off different things,
(33:52):
I'm sure, just like we have, you know, vegetable oil
cars and then we have diesel, and we have gas
and we have electric, and who's to say that they
don't have similar things where maybe whatever craft was there
doesn't emit that radiation or anything that would physically affect
the family, But a lot of times you hear that
they do, so that to me is a little odd.
(34:14):
You would have expected a burn or conjunctivitis or something happening.
There was no missing time, granted they well that we
were aware of. There's no missing time, But there wasn't
any abduction reported either, So nobody, supposedly nobody was taken,
nothing came off the craft, nobody saw the thing driving
a craft. It never landed. Most of the time, it's
(34:36):
they land they're doing. It appears like they're doing some
sort of field research of their own, where they're taking
soil samples and whatnot, or I guess people. But there
was nothing there was as far as I could find.
There was no cattle mutilations nearby. There was so that
to me. On one hand, I want to say, yes
(34:57):
it was UFOs because it was so out ages for
the time. But on the other hand, there's a lot
of things missing now. I do say the zipping back
and forth and the quick patterns and stuff like that
is the only thing that makes me go, oh, this
is obviously something that we probably did not have access
to at the time.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
But like you said, there's a lot of things that
we don't know we have. Right I'm on the fence, I.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Would say I wouldn't say fifty to fifty.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I feel like the amount of effort, See this is
where I think the amount of effort put into debunking
it and coming up with bullshit excuses could lean either direction.
Either yes, they are. That phone call was dude, you
better button the shit up, Like, we can't have people
knowing about this. It could be that, or it could
be they don't need to know about it. You need
to touh it Like it could go either one extreme
(35:57):
or the other.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yeah, they're aliens or it was us either way, shut up. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
So I think it's hard for me to decide on
that one.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Well, last week I was ninety ten that it was
the government. I think this week I'm more seventy thirty.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I think I'm still sixty forty for aliens.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Because I was close to a government.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, I just wanted to be aliens.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
I just think that's not enough though.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah. But then again, a lot of times there's not
but so many witnesses and like I said that one
in Hillsdale, they sat and watched it for ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
It wasn't like a oh it just flew by the window.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Ten minutes, these people are watching it do the light show,
and then it's like up and down and over.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
There's just there's a lot. There's a lot there that
doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Now, if it was like, oh, a couple people saw
it fly by a window, I'd be like, yeah, that's
probably just like some bullshit.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
But this thing, and if it was.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
The government, they would know full well that school was
that close. I don't think they would ever even have
tried to do anything there.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Not everyone in the government is super smart either.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I would assume that if you're covering up as they're
using this high tech stuff, you've got to have a brain, right,
you would think, you would think. But I just feel
like if it was the government, there would have been
I can understand the family and then being like, Okay,
it's late, we're in the middle of nowhere, it's dark,
(37:34):
we're in the cover of night.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
It's probably safe.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I can understand that from a military standpoint, But to
be that close to the college, knowing that if it
was school wasn't in session and stuff like that's one thing.
But no, it was in school season during the school year.
We had all these people there. It wasn't like it
was at midnight. It was at like eight or nine
o'clock at night, so at the time it's still pretty
(37:58):
light outside.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
So that's where I struggle.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Because I don't think that they would have been dumb
enough to do it there, especially if there's so many
swampy areas.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Why would you go to one that close?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I don't know, But wouldn't aliens if they were them
and they saw all those people wouldn't they be like
peace and just bouncing.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
If they're all in the building on curfew, they don't
know the school schedule.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
But if they see them all watching them.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
But if they're far enough away they won't see them
watching them. They might just be like, oh, it's a
building they don't know. And if they don't see any
people walking around because they're all in curfew, they might
not realize there's even people there.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Girls in college allowed when they get together.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I didn't have that nice college experience. I didn't experiment
in college. I feel like there's one. There's a lot
of pull either direction. So I would say sixty forty
just because I.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Wanted to be aliens so bad. But I feel like
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
There's not enough evidence either direction, I don't feel and
you can logically sift through enough of it to defend
an answer either way.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Yeah, but I do think that there was something, yes,
something that's yeah, it's not it was just made up,
it was just a collective whatever. I don't think that
was the case.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
I am one hundred percent something was there. Now what
it was, I don't know. Do you got anything else
that you want to add? To the Michigan.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Scenarios.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
No, I just I learned so much about encounters of
the first, second, third kind and Haley the knowledge from Natasha.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Yeah, say, it's always a teaching opportunity when I can.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
To me, knowledge is power, right, So the more you know,
the better off you are. And like I said, some
like I know some random shit. I know a whole
bunch of random stuff. But to me, I just wanted
to do Officer Harvey Ford, who is the other? Like
all the officers were fantastic van horn and then the
(40:06):
congress horn.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, get your horn. I want to see if I
can find who is that congress person. I want to
say it was VIVI something Vivian. There's a Jerry. But anyway,
so the officers, oh hesnan Wise.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
The duo on the case, the Hillsdale Police duo, and
then Gidget for her reporting skills. It's just to me,
this whole thing, over like a span of a week
or so, showed a lot of people that they really
had a lot of gusto. They really had the balls
to go out and say, yes, we saw we don't
(40:44):
know what it was, but we saw something.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
This is what's happening. We have the reporter giving the accounts.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
We've got officers stepping up, We've got the sheriffs that
are pressing and pressing.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And holy crab, I just have gooosebos on one side of me. There.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
It would have been so much easier to say nothing.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yes, but they got to it, went to Congress, they
got blue Book involved. To me, there's a lot of
good investigators in this scenario and a lot of good
key players in it, and so I know they're probably
either really old or gone, but the kudos to them.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
My hat is like, hey, they would know about Rocky
and Bullwinkle, Yes they would.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
But all right, so I don't forget.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
I do have a new Patriot subscriber that I gotta
do a shout out for.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
So this is a shout out to Ghost.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Potato, which is an awesome name because I do ghosts
and I am a potato and oh my gosh, you
mentioned potatoes potato.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Parts, potato parts. Thanks Ghost Potato Parts. But all right,
I said to be that in there.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Thank you so much for subscribing, and all of my
other people out on the Patreon that are members, You
guys are awesome and I appreciate everything.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
So keep doing what you're doing. Okay, I don't have
anything else to add. If you don't have anything else
to add. Again, everybody, don't forget to check everybody out.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Sos is out, is out a ghost, She's everywhere that
you can listen. She does have a Patreon page, she's
got a crowd made thing.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Do you have a website? I do, okay, so website
dot com. Oh wow, that's like mine creezy conspiracy dot com.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, go check that out too, So don't forget to
leave a review, share it with everybody that you know.
Rate us five stars. It's gonna help everybody out. I
know a lot of people don't think it does. But
it takes what thirty seconds if even that, and it
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that wants to help. Like I said, we've got everything.
(42:35):
Both of our links are gonna be down below. We've
got Patreon, we've got websites, we've got merched, we've got
all kinds of resources. So go check them out and
until next time, everybody, we'll see you by Thank you
for listening to this episode of Cryptids, Creeps and Conspiracy
if you wouldn't mind, please take a moment and give
(42:57):
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(43:19):
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(43:39):
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have any questions, topic recommendations, or personal encounters, please send
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(44:04):
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(44:27):
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Thank you for tuning in to Cryptids, Creeps and Conspiracy Podcasts,
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Speaker 2 (00:14):
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
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However, if you are using an.
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So grab your rose colored glasses, skeptical suits, and hold
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Speaker 2 (01:04):
Hope see soon.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Welcome back everyone, with me again to wrap this up
as miss Lists from OUCH was at a ghost so
this is gonna be entertaining. Last week Lists a little
under the weather and we had to evacuate quickly afterwards
because she was sick he's stomach. And then this week
I just got off a fourteen hour puke fest.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So we'll see how this goes. But yeah, so let's
do a recap here.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Let's see one. The first one was Dexter, the UFO sighting.
There we had the football shape the size of a car.
But then you said looked like an eyeball, which is
straight up legit. Go check out the stuff. I put
a picture of it on social media.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So that was the main one.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And this was like a family saw it, law enforcement
saw it. It was very substantiated. They ended up calling
for help.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
But then the.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Second one was at Hillsdale at that college and a
whole at least one full dormitory full of women, and
I guess there was other students there saw it. More
law enforcements saw it. The sheriff, ohait hold On, he
was the what did they call him? The Civil Defense Director?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, how the fuck did I remember that?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I don't know. I remember Gidget, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Gidget the reporter.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
But all these people see it and then they bring
it up. They take it to the federal level, ignores them,
sweeps under the rug, just forgets about it. But the
awesome sheriff persists and then even reaches out to what
was the congressional level. Yeah, and it's hey, do you
something about this the congressional person.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It was a Vivian.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I don't. I only remember I remember Gidget and Mermaids. Gidget.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Oh my god, I forgot the word.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And I was like, we were talking about Aliens and
she was noting me about to say it was like
she thought Atlantis was Aliens. And I started dying laughing.
And these people are looking at me like I'm fucking crazy,
because they don't I'm the weirdo.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
So I'm like, oh, she thought Atlantis was Aliens.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
That's so funny.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
And they were just like, okay, like your nuts woman.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
But I was just busting out laughing. I didn't know
ifody knew what the hell I was laughing about.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
It was a good time, but yeah, I think it
was Vivian something Vivian, And you know, they took it up.
They pulled a bunch of strings and actually got Project
blue Book involved, and they sent in a doctor, j
Allen Heineg, which is what we're going to be covering today,
all right, So go.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Back and listen. You can get all the deats.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It's got the descriptions and the eyewitnesses accounts and stuff
like that. But this week's just going to be a
little bit of background behind the guy who did it
and the investigation itself and all of that fun jazz.
So before we start, do you have anything I always
ask you every week, and the answer is always the same,
do you have anything going on this come over?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I just finished a collab Twisted Tails came on and
we did a little I'm about to edit that when
we get off.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So I've got some stuff coming down the pike.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
My boyfriend's gonna come on at some point and we're
gonna do a mental health episode. I'm gonna see about
getting some new guests on and just see what's up
with that. We still have other things that we gotta
talk about because I gotta scroll point down to part three. Okay,
Like I said, we're gonna start this week off with
a little background into who led the investigation and put
(04:43):
it into perspective of the process that they took. So
the man's spearheading the Michigan UFO sightings in the spring
of nineteen sixty six was Joseph alan Heinek. And this
is so weird. I'm like, it's so old. He was
born in nineteen ten TV seems like ancient, and he
(05:05):
grew up in Chicago, which I.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Tell you how gross it is when people act like
nineteen nineties is ancient. Oh my god, isn't it like
you were born before two thousand.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
See, I have this problem where I have to use
data births at work and I have to figure out
whether or not the person is a minor and can
consent or not, and anything over two thousand.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
My brain's oh, you need a signature and that. I'm like, wait, shit, yep.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
You're an adult. I officially feel old. I don't feel
like I should be this old.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
No, it's the worst when you're like talking about any
musician like Michael Jackson and they're like who's that and
you're like.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
What just literally what this just happened? So at work
I was talking to him. I guess we're gonna derail.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Sorry, guys, I.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Was talking about Rocky and bowl Eagle Natasha exactly, and
I'm like Rocky Bowy and like the nurses were like, what.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
You no, Rocky and bullwinkleed They're like no.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And this so security guard who's more salt than pepper, and.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
He's yeah, I know that. He's like you know, the
squirrel and the moose.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And I'm like, oh my god, that's how you identify
with That's the worst. When you're in the room and
you're like, oh, I identify with this person. We're in
the same level everyone else in the room. I'm like,
oh my god.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
This guy's probably in his sixties and I'm like, oh no.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
But you're like, we have never heard of this ever,
and I'm just like google it. But I felt so
old at two seconds, I thought they were messing with me.
But they were literally deer in the headlights, so they
had no idea.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah, knocks us down a few pegs and I figured out.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
He was born in nineteen ten, grew up in Chicago.
At an early age, he developed scarlet fever and was
unable to leave his bed, which I'm surprised he was survived.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
That's something like white people out back.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
In the day.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, it was in his bedridden time that he forged
a fascination with the field of astrology. Astrology, I'm heavy
on the ass today, but a bumpch. But as a
young man, Heinek enrolled in the University of Chicago and
graduated with his bachelor's in nineteen thirty one and walked
out in nineteen thirty five with a PhD in astrophysics.
(07:24):
So dude's smart. Dam yeah, he's smart. The next year
he was added to Ohio State University's faculty roster and
eventually became the director of Ohio State McMillan Observatory. So
dudes make a progress right. He is progressing. He is motivated,
he's driven. He's not just sitting in one spot being
a professor for his whole life, please, right. And that's
(07:47):
one thing I do like about him is he always
is willing to learn. He wants to learn and better himself.
It's just awesome. In nineteen forty eight, doctor Heineg was
recruited by US Air Force to be an astronomical addition
to the Project Sign and from for those of everybody
I guess out there, most people know are familiar with
(08:07):
Project Blue Book, but Project Sign was a team that
was tasked with tackling the mystery of UFOs og UFO
investigations then later took on the form as Project Grudge
and then the infamous Project Blue Book. So it's one
turned into the other to like metamorphosized into why am
(08:29):
I using big words today? Into what it is but
we're familiar with nowadays. One of the things that I
found that he was first noted as like in his
role with the Air Force was in the investigation at Roswell,
And we all know how the government portrayed the UFO
(08:53):
and all of that in Roswell. So that kind of
sets you up, like puts the ball on the tee
or his mindset and his viewpoint on aliens in UFOs.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
He for one second, Yeah, I am the least knowledgeable
about aliens. I've said this many times. What exactly was
for Oswall? Like, just do the quickest synopsis of what
it is, because I honestly don't know the whole story there.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
You know the leather balloon thing, Oh, there's a crash site,
so weather balloon they found a body, Yeah it was
that's Oswell craft crashes. Yeah they get Then the conspiracy
is they have an alien either live or and or debt.
I can't remember exactly what the life status was. But
then they're like, oh, it wasn't a UFO, it was
just a weather balloon. That's where that came from.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, it's like the biggest if you think of cover up.
So you have the ones like Betty and Barney Hill.
Oh my gosh, I totally they were Tom Walton. Yeah, abductions.
So you have Tom Walton, you have Betty and Barney Hill.
You so they were abductions. But Roswell is huge for
(10:04):
the actual craft coming down, crashing and having an actual being.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Like here, okay, okay, sorry, no, you're fine, You're fine here.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
In that situation, he was claiming the concept of conducting
these alien encounters that was quote unquote utterly ridiculous. That's
literally what he said. The whole concept of aliens was ridiculous.
And then doctor Heinig's role in radical research was to
dissect and debunk reports through the use of meteorology and astronomy.
(10:34):
Like he was literally there to debunk that was his purpose, right, No,
it isn't like I said. It set him up to.
This is how it is. I don't believe in it.
It was Saturn or Venus or a star or whatever,
astral farts, who knows anything. They could be explained with
(10:56):
something that physically exists that we are aware of.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
That highball that's from the man on the moon.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Don't worry about it, yes, exactly, don't worry about it.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
So he started off, like I said, very closed minded,
and he wrote off most of the accounts as misidentifications
or simply just mundane phenomena that you know, it was.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Steam or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Mainly the stars and planets and all that, because that
was his area of expertise. But after a while he
started seeing more and more reputable reports and he just
couldn't confidently close a case and say completely that it
did not exist. He started having more and more that
he could not debunk, and he began to see the
(11:40):
increase of encounters that involved information from radar systems, pilots,
police officers, Like it wasn't Joe Schmoe or I guess
not to discredit the family the man or family from.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Two weeks ago.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
They're a small town, farming community family that sees some
random shit.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
It come down, like I can understand that. But like
he's seeing more and more accounts of people that are
more credible. I guess you could say in the eyes
of researchers like police officers, that are just generally taken
more seriously than just random people off the street.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah, it's someone with something to lose, well, not to lose,
but like to they'll easier to ridicule.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I think you're right, though, I think something to lose
is right because back then you got to think if
you said something and you were in that role. Even today, Yeah,
if you say, oh I saw this, I always saw that,
you're immediately under the like you're on the chopping block,
you're under the microscope.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
People just automatically say you're crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You lose your job, you can't get hired anywhere because
people think you're nuts.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So it's really unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But like you said, there's people that have things to lose,
and to me that adds a little bit of validation
because there is everything to lose in their situation.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Oh, Because of all these things that he's seeing, Heineg
began to believe that some sighting should undergo scientific inquiry,
not just oh I'm going to debunk it, but actually
research what is going on, because it was so prominent
that things are happening now, so he starts to shift gears.
I wouldn't say that he was a believer necessarily. It
(13:19):
was almost like he seemed, Okay, I know something's happening.
I'm having a hard time explaining it, but there's got
to be an explanation, and I think that we need
to scientifically research it.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, not just like there were.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Binoculars in the antennas, but maybe I don't know what
they were using at the time. But he was very
much so getting more into wanting to do the research
and actually study it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, he wanted to find the actual origin, not just
blindly believe a weird theory and not write it off.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Which again is his drive. I think you went to school.
He got his PhDs in astrophysics. Like he wants to
know how and why and when and which is great.
I think that's a good trait to Heck.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Get that I have problems that you can't solve, and
I'll go insane till I figure them out. I totally
understand that. Yeah, and I respect that.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, I'm with you one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And in nineteen seventy two, he presented the Close encounter
classification system within the UFO experience a scientific inquiry.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So when you hear.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
First what is the encounter of the first kind, second kind,
third kite? That's his classification system.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So what does each one to mean? Oh God, I
address that. I told you I'm such a novice at UFOA.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
But this is why I put extra I put extra
stuff in so that way we could walk away more
educated than we started.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
All right.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
So you have a close encounter of the first kind,
which is a visual sighting of a UFO within five
hundred feet or right around one hundred and fifty two
point five meters, You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Then you have close encounters of the.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Second kind, which is sightings with physical effects such as
burn marks, redness to the skin, the engine of your car, dying,
anything that you can.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
See, touch feel here.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I've known of multiple cases where they see a UFO
and they get like conjunctivitis in their eyes or whatever.
Their eyes get all infected and grows, and it happens
a lot or radiation burn.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I've heard that. I've never heard conjunction ighte.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, they get conjunctivities, dude, I've heard it in multiple accounts.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's definitely weird. When I first started noticing it, I
was like, that is weird, I would say with you,
I'm like, huh.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But so basically, anything with side effects or physical abnormalities,
that's the second kind. And then the encounters of a
third kind are sightings of UFOs involving entities such as
humanoid figures, robots, or other animated beings or automated beings.
So you have the first kind is oh, look way
over there, there's something, or oh, look there, I can
(15:52):
see it, but I don't see anything else. Second kind
is I see something and I'm now yes, spookers in
your eyes or burns on the skin. Then third kind
is holy shit, there is a thing in front of me.
There's something coming out of it or something driving it.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
A flatwood monster, yes.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Exactly now.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Shortly after the Michigan UFO sightings, doctor Heinek arranged an
investigation on behalf of plot Project Blue Book. He primarily
sat behind a desk reading the accounts, inhibiting progress until
he got his ass out from behind that desk and
started field research.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Not that I was judging. I wasn't judging at all.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Then a drawing of the craft started getting circulated, which
is the one we talked about earlier with the you
have a football, you got the dome on the top,
you got the two little antented thing, these little legs
at the bottom, and it's got that quilted grid type
pattern on it. So even a self proclaimed quote unquote
expert that was from California, which I'm not really sure
(16:54):
where they were chiming in, but anyway, they construed the
claim that the UFO was visiting these specific sites to
suck up the swamp water and replenish and recharge its batteries.
So either it was cooling like a cooling system, or
it needed the water to recharge something, which like I said,
the algae and stuff like that, it could be organic
matter that it needs to do something, and maybe there's
(17:17):
more of it in the swamp.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I don't know, but that was one claim. So once
he yeah, once he got in, Heineg dove right into.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
The interviewing process with witnesses and searching for any witness
or any evidence. Jesus sorry about that, any evidence the
sightings were substantiated. After speaking with the manor family, he
admitted to the sheriff that he was not sure what
to make of the sightings. Again a guy who debunks everything.
His job is to debunk. And he told the staff
(17:47):
he's like, man, I really don't know what to say
about this. This is like almost stumped him. Like he's
considering it.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
A little later, he took a phone call from federal
authorities and after that was like.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
No, I don't know what you're talking about. This can't
be real. This isn't real. Nothing's happening the men in black.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
So he yes, he says this, and then he gets
a call from the government and he's let me switch
some gears. So on the twenty third of March, just
a couple of days after Dexter sightings, Heinik was a
speaker at a press conference that demanded that was demanded
by the public. So again he's saying these things. He
gets a call from the government. Now he's on a
(18:28):
press conference. He was insistent that most of the witnesses
in Michigan only saw yellow, red, and green lights but
heard no sounds and saw no object. When we know
damn well that we have multiple people saw something like
an actual craft. And I put some quotes in here
(18:51):
because I wanted to do a justice by putting exactly
what I could find. So these are a summary of
his press conference, and I'm just like dying here. The
incidents of the Manor Farm in Hillsdale College were a
result of rotting vegetation in lowland areas. The vegetation created
gases that were trapped in the winter. During the spring thaw,
(19:13):
and the gases were released. This swamp gas phenomena could
cause the lights and even sounds.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Heine called it highly localized.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
So I'm just picturing like this farting sound is all
I could see. But there's no ship that would come
out of it.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Exactly a farting old potato.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
That's all I'm hearing out of that whole thing. He
just said, go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Oh it's just swamp gas.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And then it says, quote A dismal swamp is a
most likely place to visit from outer space end quote,
which is what he also said at the press conference, says,
my interrogations were made triply difficult because of the ambiguous press,
radio and TV men. It was impossible to talk quietly
with anyone or quietly. Oh my gosh, whoa, I just
(20:04):
what elmer fudd.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
We keep it quietly.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Oh jeez, talk quietly with anyone without having a microphone
placed in front of your face. I was always importuned
for just a word, or will you answer this one question.
It is difficult to describe to one who wasn't there
in the general bedlamb Mister Manner, the chief protagonist in
the Dexter case, reportedly complained that I had spent very
(20:29):
little time with him. It was virtually impossible to do so.
Several times I was waiting and anxious to talk with him,
but he was occupied with several reporters. Here again, is
where some assistants would have come in handy. They could
have diverted the reporters while I talked to Manner. One
needs some clever interference to run for him.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
For cases like this, it is virtually impossible to do
it single handedly. And thus the concept of swamp guess
was born. So that press conference is what this what
started the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I would give anything to hear what that conversation was
on the phone from the government.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I know that's what I was thinking. I'm like, dude,
it's got to be something.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Is it money? Is it threats?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
But he's been the head debunker for years.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, does he get access to a secret bathroom? What
does he get?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
He gets a secret office by the bathroom, or he
gets the window office.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Front road parking spot.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
He gets a Oh my gosh, and what do they
call that? The light the overhead light in a building?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Oh? Sky skylight?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, he gets a skylight.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I don't know why. I'm gonna say, like a basket
of edible arrangements. I don't know why when you went
like that, I'm like, oh, she means edible arrangements my.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Finger in putting of the sky.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, that's what I connect, all right.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I would love to know what was said, because, like
I said, he starts off. No, he goes to talks
to the man or family, sees what's going on again.
There's that thing in the grass that they see and
they clearly saw something, and then other people saw it too,
and so then he's, oh, I don't know what to
make of this. Holy shit, this is weird. And then
(22:22):
takes the phone call and then he's like, oh no,
it's swamp gas.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
His excuses suck, He's I didn't get to talk to
him enough. He could still easily read all those reports
that the reporters wrote, this is what he said. He
still has access to what the guy said.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
But if he's asking specific questions trying to get particular answers,
they're not going to be the same questions that a
reporter's gonna ask.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Then try again, don't just be like, oh, I couldn't
talk to him so and it's.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
It's yeah, it's government investigations.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
So you got to think they don't want the press
or public to know and interfere with the investigation.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Like I understand that. Like you don't question a purpose
in public.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Then bring them in to question them. Don't sit on
the front lawn pushing through.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Well, supposedly there's like a horde, like swarms of these things,
like these people, these things like they're monsters.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
In some cases they are. But to me, I've got
a thing here.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
It should be noted that even the House leader Gerald Ford,
labeled the swamp guest theory as flippant and leaned heavily
on the need to have more thorough look stating quote,
I think we owe it to the people to establish
credibility regarding UFOs and to produce the greatest possible enlightenment
on the subject.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Touche, mister Ford, Like we owe it to the people
to get down to brass tags, like what the fuck's
happening here?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Who was the president? Then? I don't know that was
what forties?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Truman sixty six?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Oh sixty six? Why do I think you said forties?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Let's google it. I'm really about it.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I had a trivia game last night and I had
to do with what's on a penny, what's on a nickel,
what's on a diamond? What's on a quarter? The quarter
I'm Mike is Washington. But then as everyone's talking, I
kept questioning, what's on the penny? Nickel?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
And dice? Do you know Lincoln? It?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
No, it's not Jefferson on a nickel? The nickels got me.
But I know that Lincoln's on the penny, Washington's on
the quarter. So who's on the It's not Jefferson?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Right?
Speaker 4 (24:36):
No.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
See, the more you think about it, the quicker you
spiral the knickel, it's Lincoln's the penny, jeffersonson nickel?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Where els the dime?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, but the more you think about it, like that's
why I just let you just go, because you spiral.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Wa wait here have glasses?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So the president in nineteen sixty six was Lyndon B.
John's Okay, I'm not good with history. Oh I only
know who's in office now, that's it. I liked that
somebody at a high level was like, no, we need
to look into this, we need answers, and basically we
(25:17):
need to get somebody back out there. So he also
shot down the Fitzpatrick photograph by stating that it was
in fact the moon and venus.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Now I'm going to show you Fitzpatrick like it' spell.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
You can cut this. But do you know Johnson when
I think of him, if you ever look into him,
he had a habit of just literally whipping his penis
out really yeah, and he called it jumbo and would
whip it out and show everybody.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Sorry, we are going to go.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Back to the previously mentioned Bud van Horn, who was
inherently irate after heine undoubtedly dismissed illuminating lights seen above
the Arbitrarium or Arboretum as simple swamp gas. So he
was the sheriff that showed up and saw it, and
he was like, the hell it was, I know this
(26:13):
before he's saying it's swamp gass, Like I saw what
I saw. And my thing too, is I understand that
the gases that are trapped in there could cause hallucinations
or whatnot, but they wouldn't cause the same hallucination pollution,
Oh my god, hallucination for that many people, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
You said that they were all different distances apart, too,
So you're not getting the same amount of gas.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, exactly, So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
So that's bullshit, yest.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
So he went on the record, armed with fifteen points
and insisted that the investigation was utterly unscientific. According to
Van Horn, the dispatchion investigators didn't even have the courtesy
to come out to out of their cars while cruising
down Barber Drive looking for quote unquote evidence.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Didn't even stop.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
They just drove by to him, calling them out.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Oh yeah, I was like, dude, this guy.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
He's badass.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I thoroughly enjoy this man. He total props to me.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Now.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Additional claims were that they only initiated interview with only
three witnesses, of which they disregarded many of the details
that they described. Anyway, So they interviewed three people and
then didn't put into consideration most of the details they
were reporting.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Because they didn't fit their narrative.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Then Sheriff Harvey.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Also spoke out against the conclusions with quote, with all
due respect to doctor Heinek, I'm not ready to accept
this weak excuse of gas and marshes or gas from
mars quote.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Like that is like the most tongue in cheek dude,
Like dis.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I'm not gonna do this, because come on, dude, like
this weak ass excuse.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
You know he was thinking it.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
He's respectfully no, I'm gonna say no.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
When presenting it, oh my gosh. When presented with a
magazine depicting Jordan Adavski's saucer, he dismissed it, claiming the
object was merely a chicken feeder. That's the one we
were talking about. Okay, so the first one I showed
you that looked like a bell. Heinik was like, oh no,
it's just a chicken feeder in the air.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
What does a chicken feeder look like?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
You put this all this at the top and it
runs down the bottom. There's like a trough at the bottom.
Does it look like that?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Though I don't know what one looks like from nineteen
sixty six, maybe yeah, it is more saucer e it.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
To me, it looks a little bit like the Nazi bell,
which I will be covering as something.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
I know that because Joe from film Joe came on
and told that God and I was like, oh my gosh,
it was a twist. I knew it was coming in.
It was still crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
It just does look a lot like the Nazi bell.
The one in the photograph does.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
On April six, so keep in mind these are in March.
The end of March.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
On April six, Heinik Air Force Secretary Harold Brown and
Project Bluebook chief Major Hector Quintillatia Quintilla like it's a
tortilla media stood before the House Armed Services Committee. The
Air Force finally caved after all the attention and public
(29:32):
and said, quote, scientific observers are sent scientific observers to
further delve into recent sightings end quote. So with enough
pressure they finally caved and said that they need to
send more scientific researchers. They then assigned physicist Edward Codin
Cook Condon a two year task to continue with the
(29:53):
inquiry to find answers and determine whether or not the
government should provide funding to keep the research going.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
On the topic.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
There were no other conclusions given that I could find
aside from swamp gas story, and they were sticking to it.
What do you think about the theory of swamp gas.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I think it sucks. I concur I'm still farting potatoes
is all he described to me. That doesn't explain anything.
I get that, Yeah, gases can't come out like you say,
maybe there's some kind of toxic whatever happening, but that
wouldn't mean that every single person would see the same
thing exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
And what are your thoughts. Did something extraordinarily extraterrestrial occur
in the skies of Michigan's in nineteen sixty.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Six, I honestly don't know, because the military bases in
that call could have been the government being like, hey,
that was a test, we were running top secret. You
can't say a word about it.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
That actually makes sense. I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I just don't think that there's enough to say, oh,
it's aliens. I'm not saying it it's not. I just
think that we don't know enough to say, oh, it's aliens.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
For me, it's no one saw there was a dome
and no one mentioned a pilot. Now Granted, it was
also very dark, and it's the sixties, so it's not
like everything was illuminated.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
They were.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Off in a distance, it'd be hard to see if
there's anything driving anyway, right, excuse me.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But it never lands. No one gets out. Essentially, the
theory is that they suck.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
The water up, but it'd have to be specific to
the swamp because there's other masses of water in Michigan
that are not swamp areas.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Now you know a lot about aliens, have there been
other cases where there's hovering above swamps, So.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
This is the main one that I know about.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
I think I've heard a couple others encounters that have
them in the swampy areas, but I don't remember it
being Usually it's like wooded areas or a field space
in between wooded areas, almost like they're being stratig like
trying to hide in the trees.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Like Tom Walton. It was in the woods.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
These guys were logging in the middle of VFE and
just so happened to see this thing come down and
skunked him and then took him and I guess fixed him.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think they were like, oh shit, my bad.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
If you step on a bug and you're like, oh,
let me fix that, but you can't fix it.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
But they could, but.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I don't really I've heard a couple, but not a
whole bunch. But who's to say that they just.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Haven't been reported.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
That's true. When swamps are so bad, we no longer
need swamps.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
True.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I'm just thinking a lot of swamps are very large.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
They think of the peat bogs and stuff like that,
like they're just or where you see you get skunk
ape and stuff like that, and there's swampy areas, and
it seems like there's usually quite a bit of cover
in a swamp. It's not like you just have this
big open swamp from what I've seen. I've never been
to swamps, but it almost seems like there's usually because
(33:05):
of the outga and everything, there's other vegetation around.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
It's pretty thick.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
So you think they're more just strategic about their swamp covering.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Now, I'm just wondering because a lot of people don't
trudge and they don't go trudged through the swamps. Some
people do, but I feel like the coverage is gonna
be better. There's not gonna be as many people and
stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I don't dismiss it, but I don't think there's enough
to say, oh, yes, it's aliens.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, this would be considered close encounter of the first kind.
And I struggle with those because there is no evidence,
there's no physical thing if the manor family was close
enough to see the gridlines on this thing when they
rolled up to it with their little handed dandy flashlights.
I feel like, now, granted they run off different things,
(33:52):
I'm sure, just like we have, you know, vegetable oil
cars and then we have diesel, and we have gas
and we have electric, and who's to say that they
don't have similar things where maybe whatever craft was there
doesn't emit that radiation or anything that would physically affect
the family, But a lot of times you hear that
they do, so that to me is a little odd.
(34:14):
You would have expected a burn or conjunctivitis or something happening.
There was no missing time, granted they well that we
were aware of. There's no missing time, But there wasn't
any abduction reported either, So nobody, supposedly nobody was taken,
nothing came off the craft, nobody saw the thing driving
a craft. It never landed. Most of the time, it's
(34:36):
they land they're doing. It appears like they're doing some
sort of field research of their own, where they're taking
soil samples and whatnot, or I guess people. But there
was nothing there was as far as I could find.
There was no cattle mutilations nearby. There was so that
to me. On one hand, I want to say, yes
(34:57):
it was UFOs because it was so out ages for
the time. But on the other hand, there's a lot
of things missing now. I do say the zipping back
and forth and the quick patterns and stuff like that
is the only thing that makes me go, oh, this
is obviously something that we probably did not have access
to at the time.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
But like you said, there's a lot of things that
we don't know we have. Right I'm on the fence, I.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Would say I wouldn't say fifty to fifty.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I feel like the amount of effort, See this is
where I think the amount of effort put into debunking
it and coming up with bullshit excuses could lean either direction.
Either yes, they are. That phone call was dude, you
better button the shit up, Like, we can't have people
knowing about this. It could be that, or it could
be they don't need to know about it. You need
to touh it Like it could go either one extreme
(35:57):
or the other.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yeah, they're aliens or it was us either way, shut up. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
So I think it's hard for me to decide on
that one.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Well, last week I was ninety ten that it was
the government. I think this week I'm more seventy thirty.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I think I'm still sixty forty for aliens.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Because I was close to a government.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, I just wanted to be aliens.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
I just think that's not enough though.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah. But then again, a lot of times there's not
but so many witnesses and like I said that one
in Hillsdale, they sat and watched it for ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
It wasn't like a oh it just flew by the window.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Ten minutes, these people are watching it do the light show,
and then it's like up and down and over.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
There's just there's a lot. There's a lot there that
doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Now, if it was like, oh, a couple people saw
it fly by a window, I'd be like, yeah, that's
probably just like some bullshit.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
But this thing, and if it was.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
The government, they would know full well that school was
that close. I don't think they would ever even have
tried to do anything there.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Not everyone in the government is super smart either.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I would assume that if you're covering up as they're
using this high tech stuff, you've got to have a brain, right,
you would think, you would think. But I just feel
like if it was the government, there would have been
I can understand the family and then being like, Okay,
it's late, we're in the middle of nowhere, it's dark,
(37:34):
we're in the cover of night.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
It's probably safe.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I can understand that from a military standpoint, But to
be that close to the college, knowing that if it
was school wasn't in session and stuff like that's one thing.
But no, it was in school season during the school year.
We had all these people there. It wasn't like it
was at midnight. It was at like eight or nine
o'clock at night, so at the time it's still pretty
(37:58):
light outside.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
So that's where I struggle.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Because I don't think that they would have been dumb
enough to do it there, especially if there's so many
swampy areas.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Why would you go to one that close?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I don't know, But wouldn't aliens if they were them
and they saw all those people wouldn't they be like
peace and just bouncing.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
If they're all in the building on curfew, they don't
know the school schedule.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
But if they see them all watching them.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
But if they're far enough away they won't see them
watching them. They might just be like, oh, it's a
building they don't know. And if they don't see any
people walking around because they're all in curfew, they might
not realize there's even people there.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Girls in college allowed when they get together.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I didn't have that nice college experience. I didn't experiment
in college. I feel like there's one. There's a lot
of pull either direction. So I would say sixty forty
just because I.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Wanted to be aliens so bad. But I feel like
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
There's not enough evidence either direction, I don't feel and
you can logically sift through enough of it to defend
an answer either way.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Yeah, but I do think that there was something, yes,
something that's yeah, it's not it was just made up,
it was just a collective whatever. I don't think that
was the case.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
I am one hundred percent something was there. Now what
it was, I don't know. Do you got anything else
that you want to add? To the Michigan.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Scenarios.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
No, I just I learned so much about encounters of
the first, second, third kind and Haley the knowledge from Natasha.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Yeah, say, it's always a teaching opportunity when I can.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
To me, knowledge is power, right, So the more you know,
the better off you are. And like I said, some
like I know some random shit. I know a whole
bunch of random stuff. But to me, I just wanted
to do Officer Harvey Ford, who is the other? Like
all the officers were fantastic van horn and then the
(40:06):
congress horn.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, get your horn. I want to see if I
can find who is that congress person. I want to
say it was VIVI something Vivian. There's a Jerry. But anyway,
so the officers, oh hesnan Wise.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
The duo on the case, the Hillsdale Police duo, and
then Gidget for her reporting skills. It's just to me,
this whole thing, over like a span of a week
or so, showed a lot of people that they really
had a lot of gusto. They really had the balls
to go out and say, yes, we saw we don't
(40:44):
know what it was, but we saw something.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
This is what's happening. We have the reporter giving the accounts.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
We've got officers stepping up, We've got the sheriffs that
are pressing and pressing.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And holy crab, I just have gooosebos on one side of me. There.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
It would have been so much easier to say nothing.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yes, but they got to it, went to Congress, they
got blue Book involved. To me, there's a lot of
good investigators in this scenario and a lot of good
key players in it, and so I know they're probably
either really old or gone, but the kudos to them.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
My hat is like, hey, they would know about Rocky
and Bullwinkle, Yes they would.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
But all right, so I don't forget.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
I do have a new Patriot subscriber that I gotta
do a shout out for.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
So this is a shout out to Ghost.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Potato, which is an awesome name because I do ghosts
and I am a potato and oh my gosh, you
mentioned potatoes potato.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Parts, potato parts. Thanks Ghost Potato Parts. But all right,
I said to be that in there.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Thank you so much for subscribing, and all of my
other people out on the Patreon that are members, You
guys are awesome and I appreciate everything.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
So keep doing what you're doing. Okay, I don't have
anything else to add. If you don't have anything else
to add. Again, everybody, don't forget to check everybody out.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Sos is out, is out a ghost, She's everywhere that
you can listen. She does have a Patreon page, she's
got a crowd made thing.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Do you have a website? I do, okay, so website
dot com. Oh wow, that's like mine creezy conspiracy dot com.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, go check that out too, So don't forget to
leave a review, share it with everybody that you know.
Rate us five stars. It's gonna help everybody out. I
know a lot of people don't think it does. But
it takes what thirty seconds if even that, and it
gets us out there. More and more people are gonna
be able to find us, and any part of you
that wants to help. Like I said, we've got everything.
(42:35):
Both of our links are gonna be down below. We've
got Patreon, we've got websites, we've got merched, we've got
all kinds of resources. So go check them out and
until next time, everybody, we'll see you by Thank you
for listening to this episode of Cryptids, Creeps and Conspiracy
if you wouldn't mind, please take a moment and give
(42:57):
the show a five star review wherever you're listening. I
know it might not seem like much, but it greatly
helps the show and allows people to find us more easily. Also,
head on over to www dot patreon dot com, forward
slash Cryptids, Creeps and Conspiracy and subscribe to any of
the Tears. Members of the Big Show Tier get bonus materials,
(43:19):
personalized shout outs on the pod, add free episodes, access
to the private discord server, quarterly appreciation gifts, and a
chance to be on the show. Not to mention video
versions of the episode. Before you go, don't forget to
click the link in the description and grab yourself or
someone you know some self design merged by me, or
(43:39):
make a donation to help keep the show going and
fund future events and investigations. You can also follow us
on Facebook, Instagram, x, YouTube threads, and TikTok. If you
have any questions, topic recommendations, or personal encounters, please send
them to Cryptids, Creeps and Conspiracy at gmail dot com
or submit them through the contact form at www dot
(44:04):
cryptidscreepsanconspiracy dot com. I would love to hear from you
and share your experiences on a listener episode. Just make
sure that you specify that I have permission to add
your encounter to the show and let me know whether
or not you would like your real name red or
an alias to maintain confidentiality. Thank you guys all again
so much for your support. Until next time, my friends
(44:27):
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