#885- "The Cure For Propaganda Is More Propaganda" | The Father of PR | Edward Bernays - Cult of Conspiracy

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh bed of Fred, Hello and welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
This is the Cult of Conspiracy, and my name is Jonathan.
I'm Jacob and today we are getting into Edward Bernez.
Let's go. I'm so excited for this one.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Good cult members, Jonathan, all listeners.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Of this show.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Let me ask you something. What would I tell you
if I was to explain in depth that every single
bit of your consumeristic mindset that Americans have found themselves in.
I know we got listeners from all over the world,
but as far as America goes, it's not a secret
that we are a nation of consumers, right, That's that's

(01:25):
kind of our whole stick. We buy things and there
is a method to this madness. If I told you
that there was, in fact a method to the madness
right off the rip, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Not surprised? Okay, that's fair. I mean it would make sense.
We are the uh we probably consume, not even probably.
I could almost guarantee that we consume more than any
other nation. And I'm not even just talking about products,
but fucking TV shows, movies, music. We are the consumers
where the due where the pig, where the pig sty

(01:59):
Like every everybody sends their scraps and their shit to us,
and they you know, they know we're gonna eat it
all up.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
So let me let me put this a little more
into perspective. Right, So, everybody for the most part owns
a vehicle, right, something to get you from a to B.
And that's a pragmatic purchase. It's not a secret that
you know, if you want to be able to hold
a job, you probably need a way to transport yourself
to and from said job. So having a car or

(02:27):
a motorcycle or a scooter something is a pragmatic purchase, correct.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, But also.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
There's a backside to that because you don't want and
again this also pragmatically. You don't want a car that's
a beater that's gonna break down on you every other week. Okay, fine,
so you want a reliable car. Again, that's not that's
not crazy. That's not like a propaganda type thing to
make you think you want a safe, reliable vehicle. We're
on the same page here. But the idea that you

(02:55):
don't want just a car that is you know what
you need. Yeah, you got a couple of kids, you
back seats, that's one thing, But no, you don't want that.
You want the suburban. You want the Tanali I always want.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
That was funny whenever you know uh mothers who are
like first time mothers. I need the biggest suv that
was ever created. Now it's like you have one kid.
What are you talking about.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
When obviously like any kind of small suv, just a
little five sire will do you just fine. Or hell,
even a little a Nissan, a car with a back
seat and decent trunk space, would do you fine. Hell
if you got a couple of kids, a fucking mini
van goes hard, all right, Ude?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, I mean whenever we were growing up, bro, this
is and we were poor. When when when me and
my family were growing up do we had a Chevy Cavalier.
It was me, my mom, my dad, and my brother
and my sister. We all fit in there. We used
to drive across country and that bad boy.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
I grew up in minivans, Dude, it was a Chrysler
town and country up in this motherfucker, and that thing
went hard. I love minivans.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
I still.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
I think they are as a matter of fact. Since
you talk about them pimp and I'm throwing them pimp shades.
It is what it is, and contrary to what you
may have heard, good cult members, it ain't easy. Okay.
But anyway, moving on, have you, by the way, as
we're on the van topic sidetrack real quick, have you
seen the revamp of the VW micro bus?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Dude? That is so funny that you said that literally yesterday.
So my favorite store of all time and will forever
be the Dollar Tree, okay, also known as the Dollar
twenty five Tree since they raise their prices every time
I go. My son always wants to get like a
little matchbox car hot wheels. It's like his thing, right,

(04:40):
and so we usually go like once a week. I
like going just to go to be honest with you,
because you're never gonna break the bank. And so whenever
we go there, we get the little hot wheels. And
yesterday that's what he got. That's the fucking v the
VW bus or whatever, like the new like super futuristic
looking one. He got that yesterday as a hot wheels.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
I just saw one on the road this week. I'm
gonna be straight up with you. They fuck the dude.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
They they don't just fuck They thrust hard Yoh they fuck.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
Hard, they do.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
I would I want one.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Honestly, I just bought a car, so I'm not gonna
get one at this moment. But like brod, if you're
in the market for a van or something close, look,
the new Volkswagen New Age micro Bus is pretty pemptastic
if I do say so.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
My damn so, you know it's about time to trade
in the old charger. You know what I'm saying, Give
me a little view. It only makes sense you.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
You are what we might call a modern day hippie, right,
It would only make sense you're driving a new microbus.
I think that is perfect for you. Put a rap
on that bitch to make it look like a new
Age mystery machine.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
That's what I'm saying. That's the fucking meta mysteries machine
right there, and throw a little purple, little green you know,
maybe a couple of third eyes, maybe a little mar
of the octopus.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Get weird shit fuck around. That would be a business expense, dude,
I'm about this life. But anyway, sir, so so back
on track. The idea that you need a vehicle that's
safe and reliable and has enough seats for everybody and
some trunk space to you know what.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
That makes sense, But.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
The idea that your car is not just a mode
of transportation, it is a status symbol. Right, It shows
a level of success, it shows a level of dare
I say, sex appeal? Right, these all of these mindsets
are all based off of one fucking guy.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
This is the same fucking guy.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
That is the reason why Americans are big, big with
eating a big breakfast. If you go to other nations
around the world, having something on your stomach when you
wake up and start your day is not nuanced how
you know, by any means. But typically it's something small, right,
English muffin and some fruit or something like that. It's
something small. It's never like a big meal. But the

(06:49):
idea of eggs and bacon and toast in this big breakfast.
Gotta start your day off of something hearty stomach gup. Yeah,
this is a specifically American now that has traverse and
there is more countries that are doing that, but it
started off as a specifically American thing, and it's from
the same fucking guy. And let me also throw this out.

(07:12):
The same dude is the reason why Virginia Slims exist.
A cigarette specifically designed to fit in the delicate hands of.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
A woman as also known as vagina slimes.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
You I've never heard that in my lie. But all
of that was because at one point in time, it
was socially taboo to see a woman smoking. Oh how nasty,
how gross. But one guy came around and was like, huh,
these cigarette companies need to double their sales, and every

(07:45):
household has a man and a woman. I bet there's
a way we could tap into this market. And when
it also shocked you. This is the same guy that
pushed sex education through a government standpoint into schools in
the nineteen twenties.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, it's we'll also shock you to know that this
is the nephew of Sigmund fucking freud bro Yeah, yeah,
it's uh, it seems shocking, but it's the truth. It's
almost like, uh, the the psychology of economy.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
M it is, it is, But it's so much more
than that. This is the same guy that was in
charge of propaganda for World War two in America. This
is the same guy that led an actual coup against Guatemala,
which we would now call the Banana Wars. A brilliant now, that, sir,
indeed brilliant and a piece of shit. Simultaneously, the brand

(08:36):
was the United Fruit Company. We would now call it Shikda.
You may have heard of it.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, oh yeah, I forgot he was tied to that.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
Oh buckle up, everybody, we are gonna be going in
deep to talk about Edward Berneze. Jonathan, are you ready?

Speaker 2 (08:50):
I'm so ready for this. Anytime there's something psychological, dude,
sign me up. I I love learning how the genius is.
The the mega minds love to just kind of, you know,
dip their their fucking talents into the minds of Americans
without them even knowing it. It's I mean, I almost
like I appreciate it from a psychological standpoint, but I

(09:14):
also appreciated from a conspiratorial standpoint at the same time,
because this is how they it's it's so slight basis.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Of the modern Hegaelian dialectic. This is where it began
in American culture in the last one hundred and fifty years.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
Oh did this is magic? Uh? Manipulation of magic through
the sleeping mind?

Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yep, one hundred percent. Let's talk about it. I'm gonna
share the screen. We've got some videos we're gonna play,
We've got some articles are gonna play, We're gonna start
off with a quick clip from our homegirl Candace Owens
not actual homegirl. I wish she was a homegirl. But
maybe one day, you know, we're gonna manifest that, right,
We're gonna we're gonna put it out there into the
ether and Candace is gonna become a bestie of ours
one day.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
But was that the point?

Speaker 3 (09:57):
This is gonna be a thing because it's recently been
discovered that Sigmund Freud was protecting pedophiles and may have
himself been a pedophile, all in the name of psychological science.
And it all ties in to our boy bernsee in
where he got his start from, because he.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Was a double nephew of Sigmund Freud.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Come to find out, this was his mom's brother and
his dad was married to Freud's sister.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Oh man, they keep it in the family over there, dude,
very very tightly. Is this bloodline shit? I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
I don't think Freud was a part of the like
Maringian or mayor of Ingian excuse me, bloodline by any means.
But when you look at the guy himself, he was
an absolute psychopath. Everything he truly believed broke down to
piss shit or incest. I know I'm oversimplifying things right now,
but Freud thought that every single reason why the human

(10:48):
being does what he does, thinks, what he thinks, reacts
in the way that he reacts is because of an
aversion or a love to piss, an aversion or a
love to shit, or an aversion or a love to
their mother. And I mean, like, oh, I like it.
I mean love is in like.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Sexual Oh that's strange. Okay, Well, I mean, hey, it's
some weird dude, mommy porn is It's pretty fucking popular
right now.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
So but is it popular because that's somewhere deep in
our subconscious or is it popular because they have promoted
it to such a level that you can't not see it?

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Ah?

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Man, that's whenever you start really getting into the deep
recesses of the human mind. It's dark places in there,
it is.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
But again, I disagree with a lot of Freud's statements.
I think that for his time he was a pioneer
in so many regards. But the same way that people
that were doing frontal lobotomies, they were pioneers of their
day and age. That doesn't mean it was a really
good fucking idea, right right, Freud is the same way.
Everything does not break down to you either have a
piss fetish or you're like disgusted by it like it,

(11:55):
or shit or scat porn or like whatever, or you're
trying to fuck your mom or you hate your mom
like it. It doesn't break down to these things. But
he went through these long diatribes and these books and
these lectures where essentially it all wraps up into those
three things.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
I think, what was it in Fifty Shades of Gray?
Like all the women that he was obsessed with were
like his mother.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Well it looked like his mom's best friend who also
kind of looked like his mom, because that was a
woman who groomed him and was a dom to him,
and so he was like doing it in retaliation.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
You see what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
It's like they're trying to make a psycho thriller about
what should be criminal behavior, right, like real shit. But anyway,
we're gonna start off with a quick clip from Canis Owens,
and then we are gonna get into our boy Bernese
for anybody that would like to see what we are
talking about rather than just hear about Jonathan. Where can
they go.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
If you're not joining us over at patreon dot com
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(13:04):
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(13:25):
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(13:45):
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Speaker 3 (13:54):
Fouisht.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah yeah, buddy, So come on down to funky Town
and let's get weird and join us on the conversation.
You don't have to just be a listener. We ourselves
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rest of you. We will never put you below us ever,
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(14:16):
all just trying to crack this conspiracy code, one day
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So get rid of those commercials. Come over to Patreon,
let's go.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
Let's go all right now, quick clip from our home
we Candice Owens.

Speaker 5 (14:42):
And this information only came out because one of the
people that was heading up his archives side to learn
German and to read Sigmund Fred's notes, and he realized,
he said, whoa, and this is a Harvard grad. By
the way, he realized Sigmund Freud was protecting pedophiles, and
he thought when he exposes information that the Archive Center
was going to go, oh my gosh, now that we

(15:03):
know this, we should tell the world. Instead, they colluded
to kick him out, and so he wrote a book
about it, wrote a book about this. This is the
father of modern psychology. And thereafter his nephew, who you
need to learn about, Edward Burnee. He became the father
of propaganda in America, deluding Americans. He considered, I even

(15:25):
made Americans eat breakfast.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
He did that.

Speaker 5 (15:28):
It wasn't a thing. People weren't eating eggs and bacon
for breakfast.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
He did that.

Speaker 5 (15:31):
And they were constantly trying out these psychological experiments to
see how people would react. He was in charge of
World War II propaganda. How are we going to get
Christians in the West on board with killing Christians in
the East.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
And they did it. They accomplished it.

Speaker 5 (15:48):
Nazi propaganda.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
All right, let's break it down, because yes, he was
not directly connected to the Nazi propaganda, but there was
also direct connect to the Nazi propaganda. Okay, Gebels was
a big fan of Brenze. We're gonna break it all down.
So let's get into it shall.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
We card in the paint, Bro? With everything she does,
it is crazy she does.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
Indeed, this is a clip from an actual interview with
the Man of the Hour Anes.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Before you start that, I want to give a shout
out to the fuck boy known as Nick FUENTZS Have
you been following this fucking douchebag, this fucking guy.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah, my god.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
I cannot stand him. I can't stand his voice, I
can't stand his face, I can't stand his talking points.
I mean, and now he's coming after Candace Owan's calling
her a fed I'm like, bro, you literally used to
be pro Trump and now you're like he's like fucking
pro Kamala or some crazy shit now, which is crazy.
And I get it. Like with a lot of the
things that Trump has been doing, it's easy to fall

(16:53):
away from Grace from all that. As you know, we
kind of have to be honest with you because we
want to, you know, keep it a thou you know
what I mean, We got we gotta keep it ten
toes down, as you like to say, and so we're
gonna call out the bullshit no matter where it's coming from.
But this guy, Bro, you want to talk about an
absolute like cesspool of dog shit is Nick Fuent says,

(17:14):
fight me, Bro, I'm calling it. Let's get a boxing match.
I'm ready.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
He has definitely fallen off the fucking I'm not even
falling off the wagon, He's fallen off the fucking common
sense train.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
I can't stand him.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
It's not like everything that he ever says I disagree with,
but the majority of what he is saying these days, like, man,
you you.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Are, you're shooting your shot here.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
He had an interview with Candice Owens where they were
talking about why Africans were so easily enslaved at one
point in time, right, and he was talking about how,
like you know it for the point, something that he
said in the beginning I don't necessarily disagree with it
checks out. Then he went deep into some very racist
rhetoric and it's like, oh, man, oh, you had an

(17:58):
opportunity to like make a good point here, and you
just shit all over your own dick. It was insane,
But Bro, he basically was saying, like Egypt being this
technologically advanced civilization, having all this insight and all this
and cannas, like, yeah, Egypt's in Africa, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
And he's like, well, yes, but.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
If you look at the the genealogy of most people
in Egypt, they're Arabic. Bye. By their ethnicity excuse me, ethnicity,
the Sub Saharan Africa is a whole nother thing. Like
when the Europeans you know, got there, they didn't even
have the wheel, like, they didn't have like these things.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
And I was like, ooh, your borderline, your your borderline.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
And then from that point onward, he just kept digging
a hole for himself. As he's on an interview with
a black woman and it's like, oh, buddy, here we go. Okay.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
I just I can't deal with them, I think. To
be honest, bro, you want to you want to be
on the lookout, and this is this isn't just me
like talking shit, although I'm here for all the ship talking.
I I really believe that he's a fed like on
some real level, on some deep psychological shit. I believe
that he is bought out. Because you want to talk
about division, bro, like, this guy is one of the

(19:07):
most divisive people I've ever heard talk in my life.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
If he is, he's a bad one, because it's not
like a bunch of people love him. They used to
and now they don't. It's like, man, if you're a FED,
you really suck at your job.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Well eventually, I mean, you can only manipulate your listeners
for so long if you're not sincere about what your
beliefs and what your opinions are. If if you're somebody
who is a talking piece for the FED, then you're
going to lose the majority of people who actually have
that third eye all the way open. And I think

(19:41):
that anyway, I'm not trying to set up here on
a soapbox, because neither one of us are perfect by
any means. But this guy, I mean, he's just starting fires,
to start fires for no damn reason.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
But that I think he's trying to do that on purpose, right,
He's trying to take it to the like the Paul Brothers.
He's trying to seem like a very well educated hater
and he knows he's talking about. He could show receipts
and it's like, big dog, what's.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
That other douchebag? Real manly? You know he used to
be a fighter in MMA. He oh damn, what's his name?
He was like, uh, he started his business with call girls.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
Oh shit, I know you're talking about he got in
trouble in Romania with prostitution.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
And his brother. Yeah, I'm gonna look it up Andrew
Tate and same. I see the same character, the same
exact character.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
But again, it's not like every single thing that comes
out of Andrew Tate's mouth is incorrect. Young men do
need to get outside, they do need to be physically fit,
they do need to try to like actually shoot their
shot for women and like get out of your basement,
like do something with yourself. I agree with that, But
there's also a limit to where you can like take
a take control over your life and becoming an arrogant,

(20:52):
cocky douchebag that nobody wants to even be around.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
I mean, there's a here, There's there are quotes that
Obama said that I would agree with that. It doesn't
mean that I like them, you know what I'm saying,
Like everybody has some agreeable qualities to them, but like,
I don't know anyway, just wanted to throw that out there.
We're speaking of propaganda made me think of him.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Indeed, speaking of that propaganda, which I'm with you, I
think Nick Fointa is absolutely adding his verse to the
propaganda machine the same way that Tate does the same
way that honestly, everything around you is consistently bombarding you
with propaganda. And I don't just mean commercials although those two,
but realistically, and we've talked about this before, every thing

(21:31):
that you see from the moment you open your eyes
in the morning. If you live in modern society, if
you're living off in a cabin in the wood somewhere, then.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
This obviously does not apply to you. But that's a
very small minority.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
Right from the moment you open your eyes to the
moment you go to sleep, you are being bombarded with
suggestive programming that makes you want to do a thing,
buy a thing, drive a certain car, wear a certain color,
buy a certain name brand of certain clothes, use a
certain brand of vape, drink your morning cup of whatever

(22:00):
name brand coffee or tea. Why coffee or tea. That's
also because of the propaganda that you've been fed for years.
It's every single aspect you think that you have independent
free thought, In reality, not so much. This all stems
back to Edward Berne's the father of propaganda. That were propaganda,
as a matter of fact, we're going to learn, which

(22:21):
changed later to public relations. We're going to break it
all down. He gave an interview in nineteen eighty six,
and this is a quick clip from it. The pen
is mightier than the sword, or so we thought, let's
learn a little bit.

Speaker 6 (22:33):
Ideas could be as important weapons as anything. In the
United States. Every idea that wants to establish itself depends
on public consent, and so we worked out the engineering
of consent, which applies to any social goal. There are
four hundred and thirty one different ideas amy at you

(22:59):
every day to do something different from what you did
the day before. Anyone can practice it, whether he or
she is a criminal, a knit wit, a liar, a
truth teller, or completely ignorant of anything but wanting to
make money. To gain belief is first through research to

(23:21):
find out whether they respond to authority, to reason, to persuasion,
or to tradition.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Now, everybody keep a pin in that whole engineering consent
thing that he said. That is going to become a
very important thing as we move on through this. Because
consent is given by a party, correct by a person,
by a group, whatever the case is, you have to
give consent. He developed a way to engineer consent from.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
The public subconscious consent, essentially.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Silent consent, go along with the crowd, get into fit in.
You want to be left out, and it's it's a
very dirty, very ugly let's dive into this. This is
from Britannica Encyclopedia as a maraterfact. We're not going to
read the entire page because they kind of get off
into the weeds. Here in a bit, let's learn a
little bit about Edward Burneese.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Edward Burnez born November twenty second, eighteen ninety one. I
believe he's a scorpio. Okay out of Vienna, Austria. Died
March ninth, nineteen ninety five. Cambridge, Massachusetts or Cambridge or
in America Cambridge? Is it also called Cambridge in Massachusetts? Yeah?
Okay was a pioneer American publicist who is generally considered

(24:39):
to have been the first to develop the idea of
professional public relations counselor, for example, one who draws on
the social sciences in order to motivate and shape the
response of a general or particular audience. Indeed, Brenees was
a year old when his parents moved to New York
City from Austria, where his uncle, the the psychoanalyst Sigmund

(25:01):
Freud was beginning his work. His mother was Freud's sister Anna,
and his father was a successful grain merchant. After graduating
from high school at age sixteen, Bernetes attended Cornell University,
where to placate his father. He earned a degree in agriculture.
In nineteen twelve. He abandoned farm products after a brief

(25:21):
obligatory sally into the grain market and found work editing
a medical review.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
This real quick. We should also mention his dad got
involved in the market, right, is in like stock trading
and things like that. He got into the grain market,
but before long was actually just doing stock market type things, right,
and so he started looking at ways to influence people
with dollar signs of toast attached to it. Then he

(25:49):
realized that, you know, like he said in his little clip,
it's all about information, because to have faith in something,
it starts off with you doing research on your own
to where you can fact check and verify this standpoint
before you then have faith in it.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
We've talked about that before. We don't know anything.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
We have faith in a lot of things, right, I
don't know, and I know this is an example and
it's silly, but just bear with me here. I don't
know that the Pyramids in Cairo, Egypt, actually exist. I
have a lot of faith that they do because a
lot of verified, trusted sources that I know have been there,
have taken pictures of it, have done archaeological digs to it.
But Jacob has never put eyes on it himself. I

(26:30):
have faith that they exist. You see what I'm saying right,
My research has led me to believe that they exist.
This is where it began. He realized that to make
a market do what you want, you just have to
make sure that you can put verifiable, quote unquote information
out there. Because nobody these grain merchants at the New

(26:50):
York Stock Exchange, they're not going out to the weat fields.
They have no idea what this actual farmer in bumfuck Nowheresville,
USA has going on in his fields to know is
going to be a good or bad crop year for them.
They're only getting information from their people, right, So if
you can control the information, you can control the prices well.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
And that's uh generally how the stock market works. You know,
it's it's it works off of emotions for the most part.
If we're being honest, here like like that's where that's
why uh fomo is a thing, you know, like it's
it literally stems from the stock market. It's fear of
missing out and because you'll see like you know, it's
it's a bull market or it's a bear market, and
everybody just goes along with what everybody else is doing.

(27:33):
And meanwhile, most of them are market manipulators and you know,
big trust funds and all the shit that are really
manipulating the market. And yeah, it's it's all. It's all
essentially manipulated and propagandized. Literally every stock is propagandized, like
and that's on purpose.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Agreed one hundred percent. And it all stems back to this, right,
because when you buy stocks, you're not buying it in
what the company is valued at now. You're buying it
for what it could be. You're buying it with the
intention of it growing, and you're going off of what
you think this company could be worth in five years,
ten years, whatever the case is. Right, that's the whole premise.
You're going off of faith based off of what the people,

(28:14):
your people, your advisors, your whatever, what that company has
put out to the public to make you think, oh shit,
this company's going to take off the next five years.
This stock is going to take off in the next
five whatever the case.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Is well, and it's because other things have come to fruition.
So the Internet bubble huge for the stock market, right,
the beanie baby market, I'm fucking uh literally, Pfizer, like
all these different huge organizations. Game stop, bro, anybody been
paying attention to that shit the last couple of years?
Crazy right, Like should be out of business, but somehow

(28:46):
the stock is skyrocketing every It's like every month it
goes crazy, absolutely, and so like it's all built upon emotion,
though exactly exactly.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
It's playing on the psyche to make you think one
way or another, whether that's true or not, whether you
think this is a good investment or you think it's
a bad investment. That thought had to originate from somewhere.
Someone had to give you that information to make you
think that. That is where this begins. So he got
involved with the grain market, be through his father, and
then to the stock market, also through his father. Then

(29:15):
he got in editing a medical review. Now we're gonna
go more in depth on that one later. It's the
medical review of reviews of the American dietary dietitary. I'm
trying to remember the exact It's the most pedantic, fucking
title I've ever heard of the review of reviews of dietitians.
Essentially right, and this is where we get into the

(29:39):
thick of it. But let's continue.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
This brought to his attention of play Damaged Goods, whose
would be producer found popular taboos against the subject venereal
disease in Super Bowl, Burne's organized a scheme to muster
endorsements of the play by civic leaders, and as a result,
the play was produced successfully and Burnet's found it is
true calling all.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
Right, pause it right there, So let's talk a little
bit about Damaged Goods. For anybody who doesn't know, it's
actually a French play. Les Avaris, I'm pretty sure I'm
mispronouncing that, but it doesn't matter here, right. He played
a key role in popularizing this play in America. It
was a French play and it was doing very well
because you've ever heard the expression of like French whoors ah?

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, yeah, there was such a.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Common theme in Europe in the early nineteen hundreds that
they even had it in a play. But this wasn't
good because it it didn't necessarily stigmatize them, but it
also played into this and VD was running rampant in
Europe at this time, and that's not good for business. Okay,
we need this to go kind of away here. We
need to promote it in a different light, if you will.

(30:46):
He uses public relation skills to turn the convention or
controversial play about Veneiro disease into a socially acceptable and
widely discussed topic. Brenees established the Sociological Fund Committee to
raise money to build support for the play, attracting prominent
figures and ensuring its success both financially and in terms
of public awareness. So, the controversy about this, right and

(31:08):
that was sensitive topics like syphilis and its consequences, which
was taboo in that area. You do not talk about
what goes on behind closed doors. You don't talk about you, Oh,
your neighbor goes and sees a prostitute once a week,
that is between him and God. That is not for
you to talk about. Why we're gonna talk about diseases.
That is, at that time this was seen as not

(31:31):
even like a taboo as we're talking about like, oh,
it's just a thing. People don't really talk about and
like no, no, no, it was like people were disgusted
by this conversation even being brought up right.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Well, yeah, so, I mean it wasn't until you always say,
what was it the Flintstones that had the man of
the woman sleeping in the bed and that was the
first show that ever did it.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Fred and Wilma Flintstone are the first married couple to
ever be seen on TV as a married couple in
the same.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
That's pretty crazy. When was The flint Stones made? Was
that the fifties? No, sixties, sixties?

Speaker 3 (32:06):
Okay, but I mean even still like it was, it
was crazy that you would have a married couple in
the same bed. This is this is not for my
children to see. This is oh, this is obscene, but bap.
And it's like, bro, he's using a fucking long neck
dinosaur as a crane at a stone quarry. How can
you get mad at this show? But that's the thing.
It was the initial domino to get.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Hit, right, I mean. And also they're sleeping on fucking
like a rock.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
A rock with a tiger skin, actual tiger skin, not print,
like it looked like an actual skin to tiger as
a bed sheet. But like my point is this was
the initial domino and once that got hit, everything else
could follow. But moving on here.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
But that's how you manipulate the mind though, is because
you're like, oh, well, it's so taboo. They're sleeping on
a rock whatever it's supposed to be from, you know,
basically prehistoric times, and you know, obviously this isn't the thing,
but the psychological effect is is that now you are
seeing a man and a woman in the bed for
the very first time, and it's not so taboo anymore.

(33:05):
So this is kind of the manipulation of it. It's
like they they weave in what their propaganda through fantasy
in a sense, and that is almost a back door
way of being able to get you to accept, you know,
the progress of the future quote unquote progress, right, because
who is the desired market for the Flintstones. That was

(33:25):
not supposed to be an adult cartoon. It was marketed
towards small children. So if you get small children that
are very comfortable and very.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Used to seeing what the adults are calling obscene, but
the five, six, seven, eight year old are very used
to seeing it, what are they going to be quote
unquote used to by the time they have children that
are now going to see even more obscene things that
it's you see what I'm.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Saying, well, and that's why it's always been their target
has always been the kids, because the kids are the future,
you know, eventually, you know, it's it's all about like
trying to stay ahead of the market in a sense.
You know, it's like, do you want to buy something?
Just looking at his stock? Do you want to buy
something whenever it's already had. It's like super rise, Like
nobody wants to buy a fucking like You're not gonna

(34:10):
get rich off of buying an apple stock. Now, maybe
you would have about twenty or thirty years ago, but like,
so you want to get it young. You want to
get it before it evolves into you know, the creature
that you're trying to you know, essentially obtain.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Indeed, so it started though before any of the things
on TV, before any of that. It started with Edward Brenees,
and it started with this play Damage is Goods. This
is the first time he really did something controversial with
his efforts of manipulation and propaganda. Right, So Richard Bennett
and the Medical Review. So Richard Bennett was an actor

(34:44):
who planned to produce the play but faced difficulty in
raising funds due to its controversial nature. Brenees, the editor
of the Medical Review of Reviews. Again, that's fucking ridiculous,
but okay, saw an opportunity and offered his help. Brenes
established his committee, which we just learned about, the Sociological
fund Committee, which included prominent figures to endorse the play
and overcome the public's reluctance to discuss venereal disease. The

(35:08):
committee support gave the play an air of respectability and
helped overcome potential censorship. Now, Brene's approach involved using the
play as a platform to educate the public about the
importance of sex education and the challenge to challenge social
taboos surrounding sexually transmitted diseases. So it became a hit, okay,
playing to packed audiences and sparking conversations about a previously

(35:32):
forbidden topic. The play's success established Bernees's reputation as a
public relations expert, but that term public relations came later.
At this time, it was full on called a propaganda expert.
He even wrote a book named propaganda Like this wasn't
a bad word at this time. But anyway, propaganda now
and then literally wrote the book on public relations. When

(35:54):
propaganda after World War II that became a taboo word,
but we'll get to that. All I promise the demonstrated
power of strategic communication and influence of public opinion. Now,
now that we had the background to his intro into
changing the community zeitgeist about certain taboo topics, we're gonna

(36:15):
learn a lot more about all of this. So let's
pick up here after World War One.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
After World War One, Bernez and Doris Fleischmann, whom he
later married, opened their own public relations office. Their first
clients included the US War Department. Their first clients was
the US War Department. Interesting, very well connected human beings.
After this play took off and did great because, like
you said, that committee was a lot of very prominent figures,

(36:42):
and I don't mean just like people with some deep pockets.
They had political people, They had relations to the presidency
and all these things in that committee. So once this
took off and they saw, oh, this man knows what
he's talking about, they just you know, he got into
the whole rubbing of elbows with the political and socioeconomic elites,
and it was only up from there. So their first

(37:04):
clients included the US War Department, which wanted to persuade
businesses to higher returning war veterans, and the Lithuanian government,
which was lobbying for recognition by the United States. For
one client, Vanita Hairnets. Wow, hairnets interesting?

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Have you ever seen o brother ware art?

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Though very overrated movie.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
First of all, watch your fucking mouth. Okay, I just
gonna say that right now. But secondly, you remember when
George Clooney's character he was always looking.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
For a hairnet.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah, and he was looking for that dapper dam palm
made for his hair. Uh huh. That's not a thing
that every dude or woman for that matter, cared about
in that day and eight. Only those that thought of
themselves as upper class and I'm better than da da.
All of that was bi propaganda done by Bernese.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
It started with the hairnet. But let's keep going, all right.
So for one client, Vanita Hairnets. Burnees publicized the danger
of women working women workers where hearing long loose hair
in factories and restaurants. As a result, several US states
passed laws requiring factory workers and female food service employees
to wear hairnets. He organized soap carving competitions for the

(38:12):
ivory soap of his client, Procter and Gamble. Perhaps you've
heard of Procter and Gamble. Oh, I love ivory soap.
That's like one of my favorite soaps. Indeed, it's good
for the skin actually.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
But Procter and Gamble is also a very very large
company that has a lot of advertisements out there. You've
heard of their products, I promise you.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
But anyway, yeah, big time. A rigorous spokesperson and advocate
for public relations into his nineties, Burnet's was the author
of many books. Among the most influential were Crystallizing Public Opinion,
which he wrote in nineteen twenty three, Propaganda, which was
written in nineteen twenty eight, and Public Relations, which was
written in nineteen fifty two. He edited The Engineering of

(38:53):
Consent in nineteen fifty five, the title of which is
his often quoted definition of public relations.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Now, let's talk about public relations for just a moment,
right as we're on this Britannica Encyclopedia website. Public relations
is another interesting buzzword when it comes to controlling the
cultural zeitgeist.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Old pr nobody likes them, so public relations aspect of
communications involving the relations between an entity subject to or
seeking public attention and the various publics that are or
may be interested in it. The entity seeking attention may
be a business, corporation, an individual, politician, a performer or author,

(39:36):
a government or government agency, a charitable organization, a religious body,
or almost any other person or organization. So anything, anything could.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
Do better PR. Right, whether you're a kid in class
and you want to be more well liked, you would
do a low key version of a PR campaign to
be more well liked by your peers. Let's say you're
a company who wants to stand out among the other competition, Right,
you would do some sort of a mass PR campaign
to stand out.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
The publics may include segments as narrow as female voters
of a particular political party who are between thirty five
and fifty years of age, or the shareholders in a
particular corporation, or the publics may be as broad as
any national population or the world at large. The concerns
of public relations operate both ways between the subject entity,

(40:28):
which may be thought of as the client, and the
publics involved. The important elements of public relations are to
acquaint the client with the public conceptions of the client,
and to affect these perceptions by focusing, curtailing, amplifying, or
augmenting information, often through mass media and social media, about
the client as it is conveyed to the public.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Augmenting information. That's also a very critical thing. Augmenting. Yes,
it could mean just enhancing, right, making a bit bigger,
a bit more pronounced, and all these things.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Just changing It could also mean faking it, changing it,
faking it, yeah, laying it overway.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
Lying, but shifting it in such a way to where
it is barely even recognizable from what it once was.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
But now it's being seen as the way it is. Dude.
You know what's crazy is is that? Uh So, it
was like, I don't know, maybe a year ago, I
had a fucking not to get totally off topic here,
but I had like this psychedelic trip and it was crazy, dude,
because in that trip, I was like, I don't know,
you see weird shit in trips, right, And but I

(41:36):
had like the frame of mind that there is this
other world that exists that is exactly that is exactly
like ours, but the way that they look at everything
is completely different than how we look at it. So
it's almost like, you know, you have your friends, your family,
your job, you know, everything else, but the way in
which you look at it, you have a different relationship

(41:56):
with even words, with things, with people, every thing. And
so I do believe That's what made me believe in general,
is that like every single thing that we believe and
how we look at things have ultimately been shaped by
you know, not only just public perception, but maybe by
the propagandas in the first place.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Indeed, right, and it all stems back to this. So
we just learned about the and that was a that's
specific to you, right, the trip and all these things
that was changing your perception and your perspective, But that
was solely indicative for you. Sure that was a Jonathan
experience for Jonathan, and that's how that plays out.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
Maybe because how I hear, because how I see the world,
you're not going to see it the same exact way.
But this was more of a mass overview, I think.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Right. But somebody could maybe hear your story and gain
or glean some information from it that resonates with them,
and maybe they have a perspective change, but it's not
going to be as profound as what you had right,
But now let's talk about this. We're talking about the
client versus the the propagandizer. Right, it is a business realistically,

(43:03):
public relations, propaganda, the shifting of perspectives on a nas scale.
This is a business, for lack of better words, it
is a money making operation. And so this can be
done at the micro and it can be done at
the macro. Like we said, this guy also did the
propaganda for World War II. So it all ties together

(43:24):
and it all stems from, like he said, faith, and
the faith has to come from doing your own research.
Anywhere do you find this research? Who's out there doing
the leg work and getting this information to put it
out there to the public. Well, in the early nineteen hundreds,
that would be what we would now call journalists, which
our boy Brenes had some time editing the review of
reviews of medical dietary things. So he at one point

(43:47):
in time understood how journalism can be used to shift perspectives.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
A one hundred percent something is so actions always happen, right,
and it's up to the person on how they perceive
said act. And so if we just look at the
news and say, all right, this is the news, this
is what happened, not looking at it through any kind
of skewed perspective at all. Right, that's how we're supposed
to be looking at the news. If you want to
look at the news, however, you have such i mean

(44:15):
polar opposites with Fox News and CNN, just to use
it as an example that can look at the same
exact thing that whatever was said, whatever happened, whatever. Right,
But they're looking at it from totally opposite spectrums, and
they're trying to tell you how you should look at it.
And that is propaganda. I mean, I'm not teaching anybody anything,

(44:37):
but I'm just you know, showing that as an example
of how how like they're still doing it, like probably
more now than they ever have.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
I absolutely agree with you, one hundred percent. And so
all right, reading in a little bit longer here. The
empire builders of the nineteenth century often disdained a curious
public and an inquisitive press. Why would they want the
public asking questions? That's crazy? Why don't you just do
as you're told? You worry about your thing, You let
me worry about the DC things. Right, That's how that goes.

(45:07):
But this attitude, this attitude soon came under fire from
a mucker muck racking journalists, excuse me. In nineteen oh six,
Ivy Lee, a former newspaperman, became a publicity advisor to
a group of American anthracite coal mine operators who had
aroused the anger of the press by their haughty attitudes

(45:28):
toward miners and the press in labor disputes. Lee persuaded
the mind owners to abandon their refusal to answer questions,
and he shortly sent out an announcement that the operators
would supply the press with all possible information. Later that year,
he was retained by the Pennsylvania Railroad and brought into
effect a new practice giving the press full information about

(45:49):
railroad accidents. In this he was forging a majority ingredient
of what had not yet come to be called public relations.
So you see what I'm saying. They have been controlling
the press since the beginning, right, And then you have
a journalist out there trying to do some Dudley do
right shit, we got to do gooder in the press. Well,
we simply can't have that. Now, let's shift it a

(46:12):
little bit to.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Say that propaganda started in the fifties or sixties.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
I think it goes back way farther. It's just nineteen six,
but it's even further back than that. For sure.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
I think that it was just kind of mastered within
the twentieth century.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Indeed, because information was able to spread much more quickly.
Right used to be, if you wanted to change the newspaper,
you just would start your own newspaper. As a matter
of fact, if you look at Thomas Jefferson and James Madison,
they had such a beef that James Madison went and
started his own newspaper just to talk shit about Jefferson publicly.

(46:47):
Nobody was stopping this. Nobody was telling him you can't
print these out and sell them to people.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
It was.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
It was just what it was, and that was pretty
much the only way that information got out there. And
that's to an audience that hopefully could read during that
day and age.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Oh dude, that's right, that's that's twitter and true social Yes,
that's what that is.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Yes, so cut to and then we got the telegraph, right,
then we got the radio. Now we have more newspapers,
but some of them are a little more reputable than others.
Early late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, you're not gonna
read every little nickelodeon that's being sold at your stand.
You're gonna look at like the Washington Times, the New

(47:26):
York Times, the big names. Right, that's when they became
seen as the reputable source. But they were still being
used for the propaganda machine. So let's get into it here.
This is an article from the Conversation dot com, The
Manipulation of the American mind, Edward Burnees and the birth
of public relations.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
The most interesting man in the world, reach out and
touch someone finger licking good. Such advertising slogans have become
fixtures on American of American culture, and each year millions
now tune into the Super Bowl as much for the
ads as for the football facts. While no single person
can claim exclusive credit for the ascendancy of advertising in

(48:06):
American life, no one deserves credit more than the man
most of us has never heard of, Edward Burnees. I
first encountered Bernez through an article I was writing on propaganda,
and it quickly became clear that he was one of
the twentieth century's foremost salesman's salesman of ideas. The fact
that twenty years have elapsed since his death providing provides
a fitting opportunity to re examine his legacy.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
So I do love how he said that the twentieth
century's foremost salesman of ideas. I could not agree more.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
One hundred percent. So Burne's pioneered public relations, often referred
to as the father of public relations. Burnees in nineteen
twenty eight published his seminal work Propaganda, in which he
argued that public relations is not a gimmick, but a necessity.
This is part of the book I believe it says
the conscious, the conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized
habits and opinions of the masses is an important element

(48:59):
in democrat society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism's mechanism
of society constitute an invisible government, which is the true
ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds
are molded, our taste formed, and our ideas suggested largely
by men we have never heard of. It is they
who pull the wires that control the public mind.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Let's just break down some of what was just read.
Shall we get cult member.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
It's brilliant, It really is brilliant. If you think the
conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions
of the masses is an important element in democratic society.
So manipulating the masses, he actually didn't just think it
was important.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
He thought it was the only way to have democracy.
Is if you're manipulating the public right off the rim.
Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an
invisible government, which is the true ruling power of our country.
So he is saying the manipulators, the people that are
like actually controlling the minds of the public, are the

(50:04):
shadow government, and they are in fact in.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Charge the Deep States.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
He's not saying this to blow the lid off of it.
He's saying it as a he's singing a song of
praise to them.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Yeah yeah, yeah. I mean he was, you know, privy
to a lot of that information. Obviously, he was shaking
hands and kissing babies of the most elite of the world.
Probably learned a little bit from them, but also probably
had a little you know, I don't know. Maybe he
just really liked psychology and wanted to dive into it

(50:35):
a little bit even farther. I mean, he did go
to Cornell like Andy from the.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
Office, indeed, but Let's also keep in mind of who
his uncle was, right and who his influences were at
a very young age, so he already knew that the
mind sciences were very new and they were popping off.
People could not get enough of Freud in his work.
Never mind the fact that he was a psychopath that
wanted to fuck his own mom, right, worry about that,

(51:00):
never mind the fact that they knew that he was
protecting and hiding pedophilic behavior. Because no, no, no, no, but
what did he just say about that thing with the brain? Man,
He's so smart, we need to just listen to him.
So he already knew that the public was hungry for
the control manipulation tactics. He was just the first one
to really pioneer how to do so on mass scale.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Did brilliance and crazy teeter on the same line, like
they are on the same line, So I think that
especially I'm not saying that all crazies are brilliant, but
I'm just saying that the brilliant people, the very intelligent
people are they're right there, bro, They're right there on
the edge of crazy. So Burne's came by his beliefs honestly.

(51:45):
Born in Austria and eighteen ninety one, the year Sigmund
Freud published one of his earliest papers. Brenees was also
Freud's nephew twice over. His mother was Freud's sister Anna,
and his father, Eli Eli Burne's was the brother of
Freud's wife Martha. The year after his birth, the Brene's
family moved to New York, and Burnes later graduated from
Cornell with a degree in agriculture, but instead of farming,

(52:07):
he chose a career in journalism, eventually helping the Woodrow
Wilson administration promote the idea that US efforts and World
War One were intended to bring democracy to Europe. So again,
that play got him in with really really influential people,
so much so that he got in with the Woodrow
Wilson administration president at that time, to help promote the

(52:30):
people of America to get involved in the European War,
the Great World War One. There's some shit about wood
Old Woody too, isn't there, Like yeah, he was not
like a good guy. No, no, maybe we'll do a
show on him, because I've heard a lot about Woodrow
Wilson and why like a lot of shit with him.

(52:51):
So anyhow, Burne's rebrands propaganda. So, having seen how effective
propaganda could be during war, Burne has wondered whether it
might prove equal useful during peacetime. Yet, propaganda had acquired
a somewhat pejorative connotation, which would be further magnified during
World War Two. So Burnez promoted the term public relations.
Drawing on the insights of his uncle Sigmund, a relationship

(53:13):
Burnez was always quick to mention, he developed an approach
he dubbed the engineering of consent. He provided leaders the
means to in quote, control and control and regiment the
masses according to our will without their knowing about it.
What the fucking y?

Speaker 3 (53:29):
Yeah, I mean this is this is the really and
truly good cult memories. We've talked about this in so
many terms and in so many ways throughout the years
we've been doing this show. This guy made it a
science and then wrote books about it.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Oh dude, this is subconscious programming.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Like that is how you It's rate in front of
your face, but you don't even know it. That's what
that is. So to do so it was necessary to
appeal not to the rational part of the mind but
the unconscious. Burne's acquired a impressive list of clients, ranging
from manufacturers such as General Electric, Proctor and Gamble, and
the American Tobacco Company, to media outlets like CBS and

(54:08):
even politicians such as Calvin Coolidge. To counteract President Coolidge's
stiff image, Burne's organized pancake breakfasts and white house concerts
with Al Jolson and other Broadway performers. With Brene's help,
Coolidge won the nineteen twenty four election real quick.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
A couple of things that just got hit on, and
we're not it would take us literally a five part series,
doing three and a half hours a piece to break
down everything that Brenese did. We're only going to hit
on some of the bigger ones that Anvergo cult members
could google on their own and find with real, real
ease about his work. But a couple of things that
we need to put a pin in for later. The

(54:49):
tobacco companies put a pin in that one. Pancake breakfasts
put a pin in that one as well. And again,
let's never forget his political ties. We're already we're not
even half through this article, and we've already dropped Woodrow
Wilson and fucking Coolidge to presidents, so let's continue.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
I had a little problem with that word too. Is
it breakfasts or breakfasts?

Speaker 3 (55:13):
I would think breakfasts, but I also hate words. Or
you gotta double up on the S like that. That's
one of my biggest.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
It's like the S and then the apostrophe. But there's
no S. I don't know. I never understood that part.
So Burne's publicity campaigns were the stuff of legend. To
overcome sales resistance in quotes to cigarette smoking among women,
Burne staged a demonstration at the nineteen twenty nine Easter Parade,
having fashionable young women flaunt their end quotes torches of freedom.

(55:43):
He promoted lucky strikes by convincing women that the forest
green hue of the cigarette pack was among the most
fashionable of colors. The success of his efforts was manifested
in innumerable window displays and fashion shows. In the nineteen
thirty he promoted cigarettes as both soothing to the throat
and slimming to the waistline.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
Put a pin in this one, y'all, because this is
going to be we have a whole other article to
talk about his Freedom torches and the event with the
Easter parade and the whole green hue thing. We'll break
that all down. But for anybody who doesn't know, Lucky
Strikes are not traditionally in a green pack, right, they are.
And as a matter of white strike, I think it's

(56:27):
a white pack with a red logo. Right, it's very identifiable.
The maker of Lucky Strikes had come out with a
campaign for Christmas time one year, and he had already
spent however much, I don't know if it was millions
or billions at this point on the new packaging, and
nobody wanted to buy them. The reason why wasn't because
the product was any worse. It's because green at that

(56:50):
time clashed with all of the outfits that women were wearing,
and it wasn't a good color per that time. Okay,
So he rather than he told the dude of Lucky Strikes, like,
no change into more neutral colors. Your sales are going
to go back to what they were. He basically told
Brenez to get fucked. I already spent all this money.
I can't do that. So instead of just changing the packaging,

(57:11):
Burne's hired fashion models did a whole Runway show for
an entire season, promoting that green was the color that
was in next thing, you know, Lucky Strikes. Everybody wanted
to carry them, almost like an accessory, if you will. Again,
we are talking the early nineteen hundreds where that was
how it goes. But yeah, we're gonna talk more about
the cigarettes in particular here in a bit.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Bro let me trip you out here for a second.
So just with that sentence where he says in the
nineteen thirties he promoted cigarettes as both soothing to the
throat and slimming to the waistline that especially around that
time and thereafter, it reminded me of Judy Garland right
from those Out of Oz. And so I was like,
I was curious, was Judy Garland smoking Lucky Strikes? And

(57:55):
check this out it says yes. Judy Garland was reportedly
on a She was reportedly put on a strict diet
that included smoking up to eighty cigarettes a day, which
included brands like Lucky Strikes to suppress her appetite while
filming The Wizard of Oz. This practice was common among
actresses at the time to maintain their weight. Fucking Sigmund

(58:16):
or Brenee's name. Burne's put that into the minds that
smoking cigarettes would keep you slim, and fucking Dorothy was
doing it.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
And we just did that episode where you had Philip
Morris that commercial about how smoke the competitor's brand.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
It's irritating. That's called irritation. Now try ours. It's so smooth,
it's soothing to the throat.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
And that was a real commercial that ran in the
nineteen fifties. It's toasting. Before that, it's toasted. It's exactly exactly.
But we're getting ahead of ourselves. We'll talk about the
cigarettes in it's in their own right, but let's continue here.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
So, but at home, Burnees was attempting to persuade his
wife to kick the habit. Of course, when would when
would find a when would I think it's supposed to
be when he would when he would find a pack
of her Parliaments in their home, he would snap every
one of them in half and throw them in the
toilet while promoting cigarettes as smoothing or as soothing and slimming. Burnet's,

(59:17):
it seems, was aware of some of the early studies
linking smoking to cancer makes sense. Shock, you know what
was it? The fucking the owner of Apple didn't let
his kids have an iPad.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
Yeah, and that's something. And now let's also talk about
his thing with Procter and Gamble. Another weird thing. You
know that Americans are one of the only cultures that
do this whole bathing every single day thing. Really, at
least back in these days. Especially back in those days,
you might bathe once or twice a week unless you
worked in some job where you came home like actually

(59:49):
filthy from the coal mines every day. Maybe I know, right,
So why is it that we do this whole bathing
every single day thing in America?

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Well, let's learn, shall we. Well, Procter and Gammel don't
they make soap ivory We just talked about that, that's right, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so well reason to push it, alright. So, Burne's used
the same techniques on children to convince kids that bathing
could be fun. He sponsored soap sculpture competitions and floating contests.

Speaker 7 (01:00:20):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
These were designed to prove that ivory bars were more
buoyant than competitive competing products. Brene's also used fear to
sell products for Dixie Cups. Burne's launched a campaign to
scare people into thinking that only disposable cups were sanitary.
As part of this campaign, he founded the Committee for
the Study and Promotion of the Sanitary Dispensing of Food

(01:00:40):
and Drink.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
The Sanitary Dispensing of Food and Drink. He founded the
committee to study and promote this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Wow, because washing cups and plates doesn't clean them. You
need something that's fresh out of a plastic bag, made
of paper.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
Cleap exactly, something disposable, something that we can throw away
because we need more trash, we need more garbage. You
see what I'm saying. Now we have the trash island
that's in the middle of the Pacific Ocean right now.
All of that stems that's the consumerism culture from America,
right They use it and throw it away. Everything's disposable.
Get it out of my face.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
All of that stems from burns, dude, you know. And
that speaks to just the level of perplexity that we
do have upon just about everything. Like for example, it's like,
you know, you can always, even the worst of things,
you can find a silver lining to it, and if
you just blast that silver lining, it almost overcomes the

(01:01:37):
negativity of said product or thing.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
It's not about what you're saying. It's about how you
say it exactly. Yeah, And he was the.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Master of this.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
People hire companies, governments hired him for this purpose, and
not just any old government. Let's learn about his connections
to the Nazis.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
So Brene's idea has sold a lot more than cigarettes
and Dixie cups. Even though Brenees saw the power of
propaganda during war during war and used it to sell
products during peacetime, he couldn't have imagined that his writings
on public relations would become a tool of the Third
Reich in the nineteen twenties. Joseph Gerbels, Why is there
an R in there? If there's no R?

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Because the German language makes no sense to anyone that
doesn't speak German.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
So Joseph Joseph Gerbels became an avid admirer of Burne's
and his writings, despite the fact that Brenees was a Jew.
When Gebels became the Minister of Propaganda for the Third Reich,
he sought to exploit Burnes's ideas to the fullest extent possible.
For example, he created a Furer furer cult that's a
tough word around Adolf Hitler Brenes learned that the Nazis

(01:02:44):
were using his work in nineteen thirty three from a
foreign correspondent for Hearst newspaper. He later recounted in his
nineteen sixty five autobiography, saying, they were using my books
as the basis for a destructive campaign against the Jews
of Germany. This shocked me, but I knew any human activity.
Human activity can be used for social purposes or misused

(01:03:06):
for antisocial ones.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
So he learned that the Nazis were using his work,
and then he was kind of like, oh, well, I
guess it's gonna be used for anything, right, never mind
the fact that you're also a Jew, and you know
at that point that they were killing Jews. You're just
kind of like, oh, well, I guess that's just kind
of how it goes. You know. It's like a hammer,
you know, it can be used to build a house,
or it can be used the bludgeoning weapon that was

(01:03:30):
his defense against the claims.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Yeah, but I mean it's not wrong. It can be
used both ways. I mean, that's kind of what we
were talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
But he also didn't see the dangers, right, Like, he
knows it can be used for an anti social purpose.
So instead of taking that opportunity to dismantle it and
to show the dangers of it and all these things,
he leaned even heavier into it and wrote more books.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Exactly. It's like, I don't believe that that he was
some kind of barren to what was good and evil.
I think that he really just loved the psychological effect
of his practice more than anything.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
Loved the money. He loved the money he was getting
paid for being able to manipulate the masses as for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Yeah, there's no doubt about that. So what Brene's writings
furnish is not a principle or tradition by which to
evaluate the appropriateness of propaganda, but simply a means for
shaping public opinion for any purpose whatsoever, whether beneficial to
human beings or not. This observation led Supreme Court Justice
Felix Frankfurter to warn President Franklin Roosevelt against allowing Bernez

(01:04:39):
to play a leadership role in World War Two, describing
him and his colleagues as professional poisoners of the public mind,
exploiters of foolishness, fanaticism, and self interest.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Today, we might call what Brene's pioneered a form of branding,
but at its core it represents little more than a
particular braz Instead of techniques to manipulate people to get
them to do your bidding, its underlying purpose, in large part,
is to make money by convincing people that they want
something they do not need. Burne sought to turn citizens
and neighbors into consumers who use their purchasing power to

(01:05:14):
propel themselves down the road to happiness without a moral compass. However,
such a transformation promotes a patronizing and ultimately cynical view
of human nature and human possibilities, one as likely to
destroy lives as to build them up.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
So let's learn a little bit more about that. Right
in that article we talked about those pancake breakfasts that
he was hosting at the White House. That wasn't just
to make better acquaintances with the political figures of the
day and age. It was a way to promote the
big breakfast in the American culture and zeitgeist. And what
better way to start that than to have everyone know that, well,

(01:05:53):
the president eats a big breakfast every day and he's
the one leading the world, or at least our country.
At that time, we weren't like a superpower. But you
know what I'm saying. If the president's eating a big
breakfast because he needs those he needs the calories, and
he needs that protein to get him through his hard
day of making these big decisions. You want to be
like the president, don't you. You want to be as successful,
You want to be in control of as many things.
You should be eating a big breakfast too. Let's learn

(01:06:16):
a little bit about Edward Brenees and why we eat
bacon for breakfast.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Believe it or not, people had to be convinced to
eat bacon for breakfast. In the nineteen twenties, the Beechnut
Packaging packing company wanted to sell more bacon, so it
hired Edward Burnez. Brenees, dubbed the father of public relations,
as a fascinating figure, the nephew nephew of Sigmund Freud,
Burnez pioneered the use of psychology in a wide variety
of marketing efforts, from government propaganda to Lucky Strike cigarettes.

(01:06:43):
When it came to boosting demand for bacon, Burnees saw
an opportunity at the breakfast table. Indeed, survey says bacon.
At the turn of the twentieth century, a light breakfast
was the norm in America. Most people had coffee and
a roll, maybe some cereal. So Brenees asked his agency's doctor. Yes,
his pr agency had a doctor on staff, if a

(01:07:04):
larger meal in the morning would be better for people's health.
The doctor said yes, more energy at the start of
the day is a good thing. Brene's then had a doctor.
Had the doctor wright to five thousand of his closest
doctor friends, asking if they agreed. More than forty five
hundred wrote back saying that they did. That gave Brenez
a story to pitch. Forty five hundred physicians urge Americans

(01:07:26):
to eat heavy breakfast to improve their health. The newspaper
headlines read. Many of them also referenced bacon and eggs
as the perfect hearty breakfast.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
Absolutely. So, this is actually a clip. We're not going
to play it because it's from the same interview we
heard from earlier where he breaks down the entire story,
But if anybody wants to look it up, it's very,
very worth your time. As a matter of fact, let
me see how long this video is. We might have
time to play it. Yeah, it's only two minutes. Let's
learn from the man himself about his deal with the
bacon and the meat markets as a whole.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
Many years ago, our client was the beaching At Packing Company.
One of their basic problems was bacon. We made a
research and found out that the American public ate very
light breakfasts of coffee, maybe a roll, and orange juice.

(01:08:23):
We thereupon decided that the only way to meet the
situation was his followers. We went to our physician found
that a heavy breakfast was sounder from the standpoint of
health than a light breakfast, because the body loses energy

(01:08:48):
during the night and needs it during the day. We
asked the physician, after telling him why we were talking
to him, would he be willing at no cost to
write to five thousand physicians and asked them whether their
judgment was the same as his. Confirmed his judgment, he

(01:09:14):
said he would be glad to do it. We carried
out a letter to five thousand physicians, obviously all of them.
We got about forty five hundred answers. All of them
concurred that a heavy breakfast was better for the health
of the American people than a life breakfast that was

(01:09:37):
publicized in the newspapers. Newspapers throughout the country had headlines
saying forty five hundred physicians urge heavy breakfasts in order to.

Speaker 7 (01:09:53):
Improve health of American people.

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
Many of them stated that baker and eggs should be
embodied with the breakfast, and as a result, the sale
of bacon went up. And I still have a letter
from Bartlet's kel president the beach in a packing company

(01:10:17):
telling me.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
So, So, you know how we've always talked about like
a British breakfast at English breakfast, it's like beans on toast,
and you know there's other stuff that they have for
breakfast foods America. It's the bacon and eggs.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Why is that?

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Literally because of Bernese?

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Not many PR shops have doctors on staff these days.
But Burnet's survey holds lasting marketing lessons. Rather than trying
to sell or advertise his product directly, he turned to
experts his customers trusted to tell the story. He highlighted
a problem for consumers and let them find their way
to his product as a solution. Today, seventy percent of

(01:10:55):
bacon is eaten at breakfast. Bacon and eggs is an
iconic American combo. All thanks to Edward Burnees. I actually
have a little something that I wanted to throw in
there also, So where was it? Okay? So I just
found like this website that was like fifty facts about
Edward Burnees and that's, you know, just a pertaining off

(01:11:18):
of what he was saying about how getting the expert
opinion on certain things. So he is the original guy
that created the third party authority. What he coined third
party authority, which it's it just says Burnees often used
experts or organizations to endorse products, giving them credibility and
trustworthiness in the eyes of consumers. So it's like whenever

(01:11:39):
you see like a toothpaste, it's like ninety five percent
of you know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
NACHA condentists recommend Colgate or whatever the case.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Yeah, right, that's all Burnees, like, he was this guy
that came up with that ideology.

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
And it's the same thing he said earlier. Right, it
has to do with faith. Well, how does somebody get faith?
They do research? And if they don't have the time
to do the research, hey, how about I get some
people who are well read into this to say a
thing and you could take it as fact, because why
would they lie to you? Right, that's crazy. Why would
these physicians lie to you. Never mind the fact that
they would profit from having sick people in their offices, right,

(01:12:16):
never mind the fact that dentists make their money off
of filling cavity, so please use the sugary toothpaste.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
That none of that checked out to the American public
at that time because they had this unhealthy trust of
whatever was being told to them by whatever group of
quote unquote experts told them faith through information, and he
was the guy that was promoting the information exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
Dentists aren't making any money off of people who are
eating healthy and getting rid of sugar. But you know,
nowadays you're gonna have dentists that are that are gonna
tell you need to get off of sugar, get off
of the soda, and start flossing. Make sure you do
it every day. They wouldn't have to do that if
you know, the public wasn't such a consumer in the

(01:12:58):
first place, because I guarantee you those people were those
dentists were not saying that back in the fucking twenties, right, Like, No,
I mean, I don't know how far back it goes,
but like I'm just thinking, like, of course, they would
not be trying to promote, you know, a good dental
hygiene if if the public wasn't already so sick and

(01:13:19):
eating such shitty food all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
Right, absolutely, Now, let's move on to the Lucky Strike
conversation the Torches of Freedom campaign on the right of
your screen. If you're watching this on Patreon, also thank
you for your support. You'll see this ad. Remember how
we talked about a certain phrase that became iconic to
certain cigarette brands. It was even brought up on Mad Men,
the show It's toasted. That wasn't a joke. Literally, at

(01:13:45):
the bottom of this cigarette ad it says, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
Toasted, no throat irritation, no cough. You see what I'm saying, toasting,
did it?

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
All of this, all of this plays into the propaganda,
and again it all goes back to Berne.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Let's learn Meanwhile, every cigarette company was already toasting it,
but nobody was nobody was promoting it as it being toasted.
So Lucky Strikes was the first company that actually promoted
toasting their tobacco.

Speaker 3 (01:14:13):
Like, I'm trying to find a comparison to make sense here.
This would be like uh, PEPSI coming out and saying
you'll love our beverages. They're carbonated. Every one of these
brands are carbonating. It's like, no, no, no, no, they're
not carbonated because they're not telling you that it's carbonated. Well,
people can taste that, No they can't. They will believe
what you tell them is true. Same thing with the toasting.

(01:14:36):
It's so fucking it's like by our tobacco. It's grown
from dirt. Yes, so is every tobacco. No, no, no,
they're not playing the organic game. You are American Spirit
looking at you. Anyway, let's move on.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
Yeah, by the way, dude, you want to talk about
fucking propaganda into making people believe that American spirits are
a healthier cigarette. Meanwhile, they're all they're owned by the
same big companies that are pushing cools and fucking new
Ports and all this other shit. It's all like that
is that's I believe. That's like saying it's toasted by
saying that the fucking Indians made them or whatever. It's like, no,

(01:15:12):
that was bought by a big corporation. It's no longer
made by the people who are closest to the land anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:15:18):
Technically, American spirits are considered organic because they have less
pesticide sprayed on them. And that is true. But if
you really really good cult members out there, if you
look into what classifies as organic, quote unquote, it's not
what you're thinking. No, right, It's like having a free
range chicken means that they are in a warehouse with

(01:15:41):
like two thousand other chickens and there's a six by
six hole cut out of the roof where they have daylight.
Technically that's classified as free range. It's not what you're thinking.
So when you hear organically grown, there's less chemicals sprayed
on it and different types of chemicals that are being used.
But it's not like mon Santo didn't get their cut

(01:16:02):
off of that regardless. I'm just saying it's worth looking into.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
Dude. Yesterday I bought thish these. My son loves these
mac and cheese cups, right, Like, that's his favorite shit ever.
He wants mac and cheese every day. I'm not gonna
give it to him every day, but that's one of
his favorite things.

Speaker 3 (01:16:17):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
He's only he's about to be three, he's just a
little bit. So I bought I found these mac and
cheese cups and it said organic, and I was like,
how is that organic? Because you think.

Speaker 3 (01:16:27):
About it, powdered cheese. I forgot that's that's supernatural? How
that comes out right?

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
And to cook it you have to put it in
the microwave for three and a half minutes and then
you have to stir in the powdered cheese. And on
top of the noodles is this white powder which I
think helps soften the noodles as it's being cooked in
the microwave. It's like, what about this whole process is organic?
Because I don't get it. It's organic by definition.

Speaker 3 (01:16:52):
And who is the one that decided what that definition
would be?

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Well, brene is the FDA. All that bullshit FDA dude,
I get. We're gonna have to do a whole other
episode on the FDA, because my god, are they bought
out by every single corporation out there. It is unreal.
Who's willing to bring the most money to the table
to put this into law? That's what it's about.

Speaker 3 (01:17:15):
Absolutely. Now let's learn about Torches of freedom. Okay, this
campaign that Brenees did as a way to double the
profits of every cigarette company in America. This later would
lead into the development of Virginia, slims and all these things.
But we got to get these women smoking, let's learn
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
Originally, there were misconceptions that women do not smoke, particularly
those that were considered nice or good girls. Indeed, while
tobacco had been consumed in America in the late nineteenth century,
it was not until nineteen twenty nine that women were
really expected or even allowed to partake in the consumption
of tobacco products. Women were given the option to smoke
in private, but even then it was still tabooed by

(01:17:56):
American society due to its unfeminine nature. Quotes it says. Indeed,
smoking by women in North America and Europe had long
been associated with loose morals and dubious sexual behavior. Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
I'll look at you, just puffing on a cigarette. You
look like you're a French whore. You see what I'm saying,
These connections.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
It's it's the psychology behind it. So, like here's an example,
And because I'm a wrestling dorc, I really like wrestling
for the psychology of it more than anything else. So
if if there's like a babyface, a good guy, right,
you're you're you're, there are certain things that a good
guy can't do right. He's not allowed to cheat, not

(01:18:36):
allowed to steal. Anything, has to win a match, like
the right way, you know what I mean. Like that's
a good guy, that's a babyface. As soon as that
babyface wants to turn heel, you'll start to see him
chewing gum.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Hewing gum. He's always gonna come out in black leather.
It's a it's a.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Thing raisor ramone with the toothpick, right, it's the it's
these subtle little things that give cues that they're bad
guys and hre and gum is one of those things. Yeah, yeah,
So moving on, it says the women that were smoking
were perceived as whores or procureuses. Never heard of that
word or it was a symbol of prostitution and Victorian

(01:19:16):
erotic photography. Just by smoking a cigarette, you're a whore, now.

Speaker 3 (01:19:21):
That's what I'm saying, dude. When I'm saying like a taboo,
we don't mean just like, oh yeah, we don't do
that here. It's like, oh no, no, women are not
going to be seen smoking in public. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
Only some rebellious women were willing to go against the
social stigma in the early twentieth centuries twentieth century. Rather regardless,
the tobacco company did feature women in advertisements. These women
were often young and attractive, and were featured for promotional purposes. However,
their rule was to lure the male rather than female consumer. Indeed,
the lack of evidence suggests tobacco companies did not target

(01:19:54):
women for any purpose other than male enjoyment, nor did
the advertisements attempt to challenge the dominant social stigma attached
to female smoking. Nevertheless, or nonetheless, fifty years after cigarettes
came into circulation, female smoking began to become acceptable and
even socially desirable. In quotes, it says this was due

(01:20:14):
not only to the dramatic changes in the social and
economic status of women over this period, but also to
the way in which the tobacco industry capitalized on the
changing social attitudes towards women by promoting smoking as a
symbol of emancipation, a torch of freedom. End quote.

Speaker 3 (01:20:31):
Yeah. Absolutely, And keep in mind this is around the
time when women were getting the right to vote. Right,
women empowerment was seen as like the new thing that
was coming on. And a portion of that because the
tobacco companies hire Bernese. They use that as a way
to elevate their sales because as women are getting the
right to vote, they're getting seen as more equals.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
Hey, why can't they smoke in public? Edward Burnez, the
father of modern public relations, created the Torch of Freedom
campaign in nineteen twenty eight, which increased the female market
and in turn enhanced the American tobacco company's profit. Indeed,
that's how they get away with it, you know, because
they could would I would have ventured to say that

(01:21:13):
they're the ones. You know, these people, the product companies
or whatever, are the ones that created the social stigma
in the first place, or at least found a way
to capitalize on it, you know, afterward.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
I can imagine this. But that's the thing, right, So
Victorian era erotic photography and things like this. If you
see an old picture, like old Victorian era picture, and
you see a woman smoking a cigarette, sitting at a
table with a guy she was a bad at, it's
supposed to be understood that she was trying to fuck him.
She's either trying she's a prostitute, trying to like lure
him in, or something along these lines. They're probably in

(01:21:49):
a dark, dingy tavern somewhere. Women did not frequent taverns
in bars. This was a man's place. Women were not
supposed to be anywhere near these establishments.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
That's the point when you see an old picture of
a one sipping on some sort of a cocktail or
drink or something with a cigarette in her hands. Oh,
she's obviously a slut. Well, obviously, it sends to the
subconscious mind that this woman is already against societal norms.
And if she's against and if she's against the societal
norms of she doesn't care if she smokes in public,

(01:22:19):
then what else is she not going to give a
fuck about?

Speaker 3 (01:22:22):
Exactly exactly, Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:22:25):
So, Burne's believed that the conscious and intelligent manipulation of
the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an
important element in democratic society. As a result, Burne stated
that he could encourage women to smoke by linking cigarettes
to notions of freedom and rebellion. In nineteen eighty nine,
Burne sought to end the stigma around women smoking in
public by creating the campaign Torches of Freedom.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
Interesting, that's supposed to be nineteen twenty nine, for the record,
not eighty nine.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
But move on. Yeah, I should have caught that interestingly,
selling cigarettes was a passion rather than an occupation. For
Hill and Lucky Strike was his particular favorite, and he
was able to elevate it to America's best selling tobacco brand.
He'll realized that if he could get women to smoke outdoors,
the company could double their female market. Burne's consulted doctor

(01:23:12):
a doctor AA Brill, a psychoanalyst who explained that it
was natural for women to want to smoke, and that
the push for emancipation has suppressed the female or the
feminine desires since tobacco products were equated with men, women
began to see cigarettes as torches of freedom. In nineteen
twenty nine, Burnees encourage women to march down Fifth Avenue

(01:23:33):
during the Eastern Parade in New York City and protest
against gender inequality. This is beautiful. I love the way
that this is put out because all of the fucking
feminists out there, Oh my god, you are a talking
puppet for the people that are trying to push division.
You need to understand that. And that's not even just

(01:23:53):
It's not just the people.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
You're a talking puppet for the men who want to.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
Push this exactly. And it's not not even just to
the women out there. I mean this is this goes
against everybody that is ever protesting anything. It always has
its roots in being pushed by those who want division.
Look at your boy, George Soros, look no further.

Speaker 3 (01:24:14):
One hundred percent. But again, now let's talk about this
Eastern parade. He didn't just find you.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Know, a bunch of women that were at home with
the kids.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
Oh no, no, because it's about the optics, all right,
It's about how it really looks. So let's keep reading.
He didn't just find women from down the street. He
found fucking supermodels.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
Brene's telegram thirty debutantes debutants from a friend at Vogue
to participate in the demonstration and encouraging them to combat
the prejudice against women's smokers. There were hopes that prominent
figures from the women's movement in churches would join to
show unity and acceptance of female smokers. It gained a

(01:24:55):
vast amount of coverage and allowed women to feel confident
about smoking in public, despite potent ridicule. Marches also took
place in Boston, Detroit, and San Francisco, and newspapers across
the country published stories on it. Burne's central idea was
to manipulate the opinion and values of the consumer and
to break down the appeal of cigarettes through networking and media.

(01:25:15):
The success of expanding the market to include women related
to the association of cigarettes with broader social change. Smoking
was a torch of liberty and freedom, and in that,
in that it was promoted as a substitute for the ballot.
The advertisement above demonstrates the message Burnet sought to send.

Speaker 3 (01:25:36):
Indeed, the advertisement, it's about breaking chains, right, it's about
this new enlightened form. We've got a guy over here
in space and all these things keep it in nineteen
twenty nine, guy in space over here, it's toasted. Women
are free and ancient prejudice has been removed. Lucky Strike cigarettes.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
Interesting, Yeah, a symbol. Are you trying to say that
in nineteen twenty nine? They knew the Earth was a globe?

Speaker 3 (01:26:04):
Sir?

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 3 (01:26:05):
They've known it since pretty much the beginning of time.
The ancient Greeks knew this, but neither here nor there. Okay.
My point is it was seen as this new wave
of things, and as women are getting the right to vote.
We just got the we can. They're about to go
into banning alcohol or they did ban alcohol at this time, right,
So like speakeasies or a thing, it's it's this whole

(01:26:26):
thing about new norms and doing away with the old
way of doing things. So you get a bunch of
supermodels from Vogue magazine because he has a homie who
runs the fucking magazine, okay, and you get all these
supermodels to be seen publicly at all of these marches.
It's not like they had signs that were doing this.
They were just out and about walking smoking. They were

(01:26:46):
getting paid damn good money to just walk the streets
and smoke. That's it. So all the newspapers, of course,
are gonna cover them and take picture their models.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
It's an actual model.

Speaker 3 (01:26:56):
Of course, we're gonna take a picture like this float
or this thing in the raid with that woman on
the side because she's a model and the optics are
great on this. But they all had cigarettes in their hand.
So now it started the process. It was that first
domino fall to where more and more people got more
accustomed to seeing very wealthy and gorgeous women with a

(01:27:17):
cigarette in their hand. When that was seen as such
a taboo just five years prior.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Yeah, well, and that was the thing especially you know,
I remember, like you, when we were watching movies as kids,
and watching movies from the eighties and even into the nineties,
it was like every rebel and bad boy and bad
girl they all had cigarettes. So the stigma continued.

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
You can see a hard shift when this happened. If
you look at like eighties movies, good guys and bad
guys smoked, right, that was the thing. You go to
the mid to early nineties, all of a sudden, only
the bad guys in movies smoked sometimes cigarettes, sometimes cigars.
Didn't matt but you could even certain kids shows. You

(01:28:03):
talk about Mannequin, right. We remember this.

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
Movie, Hm, I love that movie.

Speaker 3 (01:28:08):
The Boss that was at the store. He wasn't seen
as a bad guy, but he was, you know, just
a guy that worked there. You saw him smoking a
little cigarillo at his desk, like multiple times, and that
was just the thing. Everybody smoked back then. There was
a movie with John Travolta. He was an angel that
came down and I forget what the name of the
movie was or whatever. He smoked like crazy, right, Even

(01:28:30):
the good guys smoked in these times cut to the nineties,
only the heels smoked. Only the bad guys would ever
be caught dead using tobacco products, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Yeah. Well, and and even like like anti hero kind
of people if you think about it, like if you
remember who framed Roger Rabbit, right, Like that guy was dude.
Every fucking scene he had a cigarette. It's crazactly dude.
One of the best movies of the early nineties, by
the way, it was a while one for sure. Yeah,

(01:29:01):
classic was it early nineties, late eighties that came out.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
I want to say late eighties.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
I watched it in the night. Well, I was born
in the nineties, but anyway, Phyllis Marie Jensen explains women
saw cigarettes as symbols of freedom, a sign that they
were their own person, that they had gone beyond society's
narrow rules for them. Thus, liberation and freedom became central
themes and advertising directed at women. By the nineteen thirties,
tobacco industry became more sophisticated and used as a diverse

(01:29:29):
range of messages to promote products to the female market.
Freedom became equated to female intrusions into male public space. Indeed,
women used smoking to challenge gender norms regarding tobacco consumption. Furthermore,
Sheryl Krasnik worsh Holds says this cigarettes Edward Berne's torches

(01:29:50):
of freedom were ideal symbols of that democracy because they
were inexpensive and instantly recognizable as emblems of maturity, rebellion,
and liberty.

Speaker 3 (01:30:01):
Of course, of course, maturity, rebellion, and liberty, all these
buzzwords that were just ooh, that's hot.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
However, we need to get that out there. Yeah. However,
it is questionable regarding whether or not smoking would have
become as popular as it had among women if the
tobacco companies did not seize the opportunity in the nineteen
twenties and thirties to exploit the ideas of liberation, power,
and other important values to recruit women to the nicotine market.
Brene's in his Biography of an Idea, A Biography of

(01:30:32):
an Idea ultimately says age old customs I learned could
be broken down by a dramatic appeal disseminated by the
network of media. Of course, the taboo was not destroyed completely,
but a beginning had been made. One I regret today.

Speaker 3 (01:30:48):
Even because he was trying to get his wife to
quit smoking, even though he just made it more cool
and acceptable and liberating for women to start smoking on
mass which again he knew that it was killing them.

Speaker 2 (01:31:01):
Yep, even brainwashed his wife.

Speaker 3 (01:31:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:05):
Although Brenees later realized the damage of tobacco products on
the health and well being of the consumers, the campaign
demonstrated two things that the stigmatization of female smokers was disintegrating,
and that the American Tobacco Company would be able to
continue targeting women.

Speaker 3 (01:31:22):
This is around the time when Virginia Slims would come
out a cigarette specifically designed a delicate little wisp of
a cigarette to fit in the delicate little hands of
the female smoker.

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
You ever smoked one of those fucking things? They're hard?

Speaker 3 (01:31:37):
No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm straight, So no, I
have not.

Speaker 2 (01:31:41):
But well, I mean, you know, I remember having like
an aunt, and she used to always smoke those things
and out. You know, whenever you're young, you're like, I'll
smoke whenever I can get my hands on. And they're
so fucking thin you barely feel like you're getting a
drag off of it. Yeah, but they're also like triple
menfall ain't they I don't even remember now it's been

(01:32:01):
so long.

Speaker 3 (01:32:02):
But that's the thing. It was all done as a
thing to the female smoker. It was a sign of
liberation and maturity and rebellion and all of these things.
So all right, we've already learned that your guy was
about the propaganda world for the pushing of World War
One and World War two, am i ad. He was
the head of American propaganda at that point. I think

(01:32:23):
it was actually redubbed as public relations because the Nazis
had a Minister of Propaganda. That was like a title
that they had. So now anything associated with the Nazis
is bad, even though they were literally reading his book
named propaganda, neither here nor there. We got to change
it up. We got to rebrand it, right. We got
to say the same thing, but make it specifically. I

(01:32:44):
can't speak specifically an American thing. So instead of propaganda,
let's change it up what you got, Edward, how about
public relations? Yes, I like it. We need to rewrite
a book. We need to push this out and get
it out immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:32:58):
So we did. He did.

Speaker 3 (01:33:00):
Now we know that he pushed World War one, he
pushed World War two, He pushed smoking, he pushed the
big American breakfast, all these iconic things, and we're only
getting started. And again, we could literally do this for
a five part maybe ten part series about the guy.
We're only hitting on the big key topics on this
one to prove a point.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
So now we've talked about things for the American public,
and that's where we're gonna kind of stay. But what
happens when you take this type of energy, this type
of mental manipulation, and you use it to further a
coup and topple an entire government?

Speaker 3 (01:33:36):
Right? What happens whenever you get this type of guy
with this type of brain power, couple him up with
the CIA, and you get them all in cohoots with
fruit companies operating in Guatemala in nineteen fifty four, what
we have is something called the Banana Wars aka the
Guatemalan Coup. Are you ready for this one?

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
Let's go, dude. I just want to throw it out
there that this was called go back to the top
of the page. YEAP, India's oldest socialist weekly.

Speaker 3 (01:34:06):
The Indian Publication.

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
How about that?

Speaker 3 (01:34:08):
Yeah, We're gonna skip over a couple of these paragraphs.
We already know about Edward Brenees and who he is.
We already know about his workings with Big Tobacco. Let's
just jump into the United Fruit Company.

Speaker 2 (01:34:20):
In nineteen fifty, the United Fruit Company had a problem. Guatemala,
the source of his largest cash crop, was in the
midst of a protracted revolution. For most of the twentieth century,
Guatemalans had lived under the authoritarian rule of American agribusiness.
The United States government propped up successive Guatemalan dictators in
exchange for the right of American companies to establish plantations

(01:34:42):
in the country. Working conditions on these plantations were harsh.
But worse still was the Guatemalan government's clear favoritism toward
American business owners. In nineteen thirty six, for example, then
President Jorge Ubiko and negotiated a deal with United Fruit
exempting it from most export taxes. Resentment built among Guatemalans

(01:35:03):
until nineteen forty four, when student protests at the Universidad
de San Carlos de Guatemala spiraled into a general strike.
It was clear to United Fruits leadership, in particular company
president Sam Zimuri, that the country was moving left Guatemala
military leaders confirmed these fears in October of nineteen forty

(01:35:24):
four when they overthrew the Ubiko government and what became
to be known as the October Revolution. In the aftermath,
Guatemala elected spiritual socialist Juan Jose Arivallo as its new leader.
United Fruit needed something or someone to save its business.
It should come as no surprise that sam Zumuri sought

(01:35:45):
out the services of Edward Bernez. In the wake of
Rivallo's ascendants, Guatemala continued to experience political turmoil. Between nineteen
forty five and nineteen fifty one, there were anywhere from
twenty five to thirty coup attempts against Arivalla's government, damaging
in six years, Holy.

Speaker 3 (01:36:02):
Shakes years, there was somewhere between twenty five and thirty coups.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
You know, it'd be like that, We're talking five or
six a year. Burnez was not troubled by this violence.
In fact, he found a use for it. His strategy
in Guatemala would be simple. He would encourage further unrest.
His goal, as described in Biography of an Idea, was
to help the public learn more about the countries in
which United Fruit functioned. In what social, economic, or other

(01:36:29):
purposes it fulfilled, but this would be no innocent public
relations campaign. Burnees, the father of lies, went back to
his time in the tobacco industry to pull from his
bag of tricks.

Speaker 3 (01:36:40):
Absolutely the Middle American Information Bureau.

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
Established in nineteen forty three, the Middle American Information Bureau
or the MAAIB served as served by Burne's estimate twenty
five thousand Americans working in the media cool. The organization
spun in espun events in Central America through the filter
of United Fruits economic and political goals, providing American journalists

(01:37:06):
and opinion leaders with United Fruit approved context. In the
run up to the nineteen forty five Guatemal Guatemalan Revolution,
for example, the MAAIB published a pamphlet titled Every American
has a Personal Stake in Our Relations with Middle America.
It collotded pulled pull quotes from military leaders, business executives,

(01:37:27):
and government officials explaining the ind quotes interdependence of Middle
America and the United States. The MAIB was part of
a much larger infrastructure Bernez and Zumuri had set up
to dupe the public the phrase Middle America. An attempt
by the two at rebranding Central America came from the
Middle American Research Institute or MARI, a Zamuri funded research

(01:37:50):
group at Twu Lane University in the Tlane got New
Orleans two Lane or is a different Twu Lane?

Speaker 3 (01:37:56):
Oh no, that is the two Lane University in New Orleans.
We had to rebrand this whole Central America thing because
that makes it sound like it's a foreign problem. Middle
America just it sounds more home based, right, like we
think about the Midwest, we think about the middle of America.
So it was a rebranding thing, but it was all
a part of the plan.

Speaker 2 (01:38:16):
Zumuri had established MARI with the intention of focusing on
the cultural history of Mexico, but over time its focus
shifted to include countries colonized by United Fruit. Brene has
found this of particular importance. Particular importance in his goal
of deposing the Guatemalan government. He could use the patina
of respectability provided by MARI to lend his new front

(01:38:38):
and air of legitimacy. Within a year, Authoritative Authoritative Atlases
used the name Middle America to describe the territory in
which the company was active. He wrote in a biography
of an idea we were succeeding in equating the company
with the area in which it functioned. This infrastructure would
expand over the course of the nineteen forties and fifties.

(01:38:58):
It was once a simils people front operating as a
news bureau, grew into a propaganda machine that oversaw company
newsletters in multiple Central American countries. At least one of
the United Fruit affiliated newsletters, Latin American Report, was later
found to have CIA connections through its editor William Godey,
whom the agency supported by paying for more than twenty

(01:39:23):
subscriptions a year. CIA got their fucking ties and everything.

Speaker 3 (01:39:27):
Dude, Well, like we're talked about. We had that clip
of how many coups in South America and Central America
did the CIA had their hands involved in from nineteen
fifty to now. This would be the one from Guatemala.

Speaker 2 (01:39:39):
It is unclear what Burnet's level of knowledge was regarding
Godey and his association and his association with the CIA,
and FBI memorandum dated June twenty eighth, nineteen sixty eight,
noted that United Fruit officials viewed Godey as suspect due
to various threats he had leveled at the company in
the past. By that point, however, Godey and the United

(01:40:00):
Fruit had a collaborative relationship dating back more than a decade.
Based on articles and advertisements found in Latin American report.
Does this mean the CIA was backing Burne's and his
plan to topple the Guatemalan government. In fact it does.
In fact it does, so it do, and it is
and it be that way, So it says Burne's tricks

(01:40:21):
a nation. Brenees was an innovator in that he did
not need to rely on others. By the time he
felt he had exhausted all possibilities at diplomacy with the
Guatemalan government in nineteen fifty, he already knew how he
intended to agitate his coup. R of Alla successor Jacobo
ar Benz was was a promising agrarian or was promising

(01:40:45):
agrarian reforms that would return land from American businesses to
the Guatemalan people. Burne's surmised he could use this land
back promise to convince Americans that our Benz was a
threat not only to United Fruit but to the United
States as well. If Brenees could brand our Benz a
communist he could inflate the threat posed in Guatemala. This

(01:41:06):
would not be difficult, as he already believed our Ben
sympathetic to the communist cause. Writing in the Biography of
An Idea, he argued that the Guatemalan leader considered the
anti communist movement subversive and openly accepted the Reds as.

Speaker 3 (01:41:21):
Allies, So he already had the whole The powder keg
was primed right, And at this time the Cold War
was raging, So anything that America could do to throw
a middle finger up towards the Commis was seen as
nothing but a good thing. And like they said earlier,
United Fruit Company had colonized Guatemala, it wasn't the American government.

(01:41:44):
Whenever people hear the term colonize, we think of back
in the British East India Trading Company. Right, you had
colonies all over the world and they were seen as
British spots, but they weren't. They were under British rule
and control, but they weren't mainland Britain. Right. America had
something similar in the eighteen hundreds. By this point in
the nineteen fifties, we didn't do the whole colonial thing. Now,

(01:42:07):
our heavy industry could colonize these countries. So, yeah, it
was Guatemala, but it could also be seen as the
Banana Republic of the United Fruit Company. Are you with
me now? So as we talk about a banana republic, right,
and how it wasn't American government officials that were in
charge of Guatemala, it was the corporate side of things

(01:42:29):
that was in charge. A coup kind of had to
require it, all right. You had to get the public's
opinion on board. You had to get the government involved
and say this is a good idea. Of course, the
CIA has to have their fingers involved with it. And
there was Brenes right there in the middle, puppeteering the
whole event.

Speaker 2 (01:42:47):
Oh yeah, so where were we right there? Okay? So
a coup, however, required the full support of both the
government and United Fruit and United Fruits problem was that,
to Brenes's mind, it's paigns against Guatemala was not aggressive enough.
Sam Zumuri, the United Fruits president, was well aware of

(01:43:07):
the company's image among American liberals as an aggressor in
Central America, and he had gone to great pains to
rehabit and open coup could hurt business. So in January
of nineteen fifty, when liberal magazine The Nation published this
in quotes democracy in Latin America Chaos on our Doorstep,
attacking United Fruit's exploitation of countries like Guatemala, it came

(01:43:30):
as a shock to Zumuri. Zamuri was an avid reader
of the magazine and took its positions as a bellweather
on public opinion. The article threatened the reformed image that
Zumuri had spent years cultivating. He endeavored to pen a
response Brene's. Ever, the opportunist jumped into action. Brenes knew
that for a coup to take place, he would have
or a coup to take place, he would have to

(01:43:51):
appeal not only to the United Fruit but also its
well intentioned liberal critics. Thus, on March eighteenth, the week
before Zimuri's letter was set to appear in the Nation
the magazine, The Magazine published Communism in the Caribbean, an
article by a pseudonymous pseudonymus, a pseudonym American writer identified

(01:44:11):
as Ellis Ogle. The article was an about face and
made the case for a military intervention from a liberal perspective,
with Ogle attacking Guatemala's free election end quotes and lamenting
that foreigners have no votes in Guatemala.

Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
Absolutely, they found out that they were about to go
on a whole campaign against all the work they're doing.
So of course you just got to get in touch
with one of the boys of the magazine and say no, no, no, no,
I know you're about to shit on you know, the
infringement of rights in the Caribbean. We need to talk
about the communism in the Caribbean. We got to ship
this narrative.

Speaker 2 (01:44:48):
Brede's could not have been happier. He goes, I propose
sending the Nation article to one hundred thousand liberals, he
wrote in Biography of an Idea. I believe the Caribbean
ferment was bound to become increasingly important. Liberals must play
a decisive role. Zamuri agreed what role did Burnet's play
in writing the Nation article. He had in the past

(01:45:08):
written letters to publications using pseudonyms, as in the case
of the Tobacco Society for Voice Culture. On the other hand,
someone identifying as either a real or pseudonymous Lis Ogle
had appeared once before in the pages of the Nation,
but that ls Ogle was no journalist and certainly not
one station in Central America that ls Ogle appeared in

(01:45:30):
a nineteen twenty letter to the editor chastising The Boston
Evening Transcript for its labor coverage. One final wrinkle. The
CIA first authorized William Godey to begin receiving payments for
in quotes special reports in nineteen fifty. The same FBI
case file that contained the earlier nineteen sixty eight United
Fruit memorandum also observed that he may do some freelance

(01:45:52):
writing under a pen name.

Speaker 3 (01:45:54):
Interesting enough, that's hilarious. And also this ties in not
necessarily to Tucker Carlson's dad. But he didn't know that
his dad was a CIA operative, even though he knew
later on, and like kind of stepped on his own
toes saying that he knew his dad worked with the CIA,
I mean for the CIA. I mean my dad wasn't
a spy. He was a writer, but like fuck, he

(01:46:16):
got CIA paychecks. It's in the same conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:46:20):
Exactly so it said. Regardless of who wrote the article,
it achieved its intended effect. Zumurray appeared happy with its
influence and started providing direct financial support to the nation
the following year. Burne's having removed his final obstacle to
a coup, began organizing trips to Guatemala for reporters, Beginning
with The New York Times writers Will Listener and Creed Calhoun.

(01:46:42):
Burnees instigated a press panic with carefully curated tours highlighting
the dangers of the r Benz government. These Burnet sponsored
trips coincided with violent protests, helping to shape perception of
ur Benz as a power hungry dictator. Ludwell Denny, foreign
editor for Scripts Howard newspaper Papers, summed up this sentiment

(01:47:03):
best in February of nineteen fifty two syndicated story comparing
an alleged alliance between Guatemala National Socialists and Moscow to
the Molotov Ribbon trop pact. Indeed, damn, that's dirty. Oh yeah,
but that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:47:19):
Could you imagine if a nation out there was trying
to change their country's opinion of the American culture, so
they specifically sent their reporters to come in during the
George Floyd riots checks out, the checks out exact same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:47:38):
So, once again, as with his prior stunts, Brene's media
blitz worked the incoming Eisenhower administration, which included Secretary of
State John Foster Dulles, a partner at which at the
law firm which had helped United Fruit negotiated negotiate the
nineteen thirty nineteen thirty six tech my fuck, I can't

(01:47:59):
speak right now, helped negotiate the nineteen thirty six tax
dodging contract with Jorge Ubiko was open to the idea
of a coup. Thus, in August nineteen fifty three, President
Eisenhower authorized the Central Intelligence Agency to undertake a covert
operation to topple our bench.

Speaker 3 (01:48:17):
Again as we're talking about how all the shit had
flocked together here the Secretary of State under Eisenhower, dude
named John Dulles was in fact a partner at the
law firm which helped them negotiate the thirty six tax
dodging contract. Birds of a shit feather if you will.

Speaker 2 (01:48:34):
Yeah, yep, So then you have Operation PB success or
PBS success.

Speaker 3 (01:48:41):
So PB success, you had that right.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
So code named Operation PB Success. The CIA operation lasted
almost a year and consisted of psychological warfare designed to
break the will of the Guatemalan people. Although Brenees was
not directly involved, the CIA took a cue from the
pr Guru and flooded Guatemalans with propaganda to counter the
band's government's own messages, the most notorious example being a

(01:49:03):
fake radio station named the Voice of Liberation. The station,
directed by agent and ex actor David ATTLEE. Phillips, broadcast
messages ranging from fake bulletins on troop movements to disinformation
intended to stir hysteria and so confusion among Guatemala citizens.
One such broadcast said this, it is not true that

(01:49:23):
the waters of Lake a tit Land have been poisoned.

Speaker 3 (01:49:29):
So do you remember how we talked about Radio America
at one point, same thing, we got the Voice of
Liberation radio station in Guatemala. It was for the same purpose,
done by the same three letter agency. I might add,
but let's continue. We're going to wrap up this article
here after this one before we get to this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:49:48):
If Brene's could not take part in the coup in person,
he was there in spirit, because on June twenty seventh,
nineteen fifty four, he achieved what no pr professional had
before him. In the late hours of the evening, a
pre recorded broadcasts went out to the Guatemalan people saying workers, peasants,
patriots in tone, The Voice of Jacobo ar Benz, Guatemala

(01:50:08):
is going through a hard trial. A cruel war against
Guatemala has been unleashed. The United Fruit Company and the
US monopolies, together with US ruling circles, are responsible for
dot dot dot. Jacobo Arbenz had resigned as president. Ar
Benz ended the broadcast by declaring long live Guatemala, but
this sentiment would be short lived. After a series of

(01:50:29):
political maneuvers, exiled military leader Carlos Castillo Armas returned to
Guatemala and took power with the full support of the
United States government. Guatemala backslid into authoritarian rule, and the
Castillo Armas government established concentration camps for political prisoners, where
they executed suspected communists. Burnet's, for his part, was ambivalent

(01:50:50):
about his involvement in the coup. In his war on truth,
he had somehow lost sight of his role in in
fomenting unrest and convince himself that he was the real
victim too. He says, I too became a casualty of
this revolution. He wrote, reflecting on his time lobbying against Guatemala.
United fre Its publication relations director sent me a note

(01:51:12):
telling me I was so well off economically that I
didn't need the United Fruit Company as a client.

Speaker 3 (01:51:19):
So he literally considered himself a victim of this revolution.
Keep in mind there was a literal concentration camp where
they did systemic killing of anybody who they even thought
was a communist sympathizer. But yes, yes, Edward Brene's, you
too suffer as a victim of the coup that you
literally started because you were paid to start it by

(01:51:40):
the Fruit Company.

Speaker 2 (01:51:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's why you shouldn't get involved in
foreign affairs. They played by different roles in every country.

Speaker 3 (01:51:48):
I do like this though, whether selling cigarettes or deposing
world leaders, that were Brene's molded reality like clay in
his hands, words spun like so many hollow jars. However,
the one constant the truth among his many distortions is
that Brenees had no use for the truth. In this sense,
Brenees is responsible for our current information crisis. His public

(01:52:08):
relations campaigns formed the foundation of modern disinformation and influence operations.
You are not really lying lying if the lies you
tell are countering to other lies. The cure for propaganda
is obviously more propaganda. This is the world we live
in these days.

Speaker 5 (01:52:28):
Quo.

Speaker 2 (01:52:28):
The cure for propaganda is more propaganda. Holy shit, Brenees
one oh one.

Speaker 3 (01:52:35):
So with that being said, we've learned a little bit
about Brenees now and some of those claims that you
may have heard in the beginning of it. This guy
who made American Breakfast what it is, the guy that
made cigarettes what they are right for women, led a
coup all of these things that sounded crazy. This one
guy who got a degree in agriculture and got to

(01:52:56):
start off in the stock trade and reviewing public or
medical reviews for dietary things. What do you mean he
climbed to that level of social status. The guy who
started off trying to make venereal disease a regular talking
point by promoting a fringe play in America. That guy
is responsible for the right and the left hating each

(01:53:17):
other from Fox and CNN saying equally untrue statements but
from very different vantage points to try to appeal to
their section of the masses. And it's all propaganda that
sounds crazy on the offset.

Speaker 2 (01:53:30):
But now that we have.

Speaker 3 (01:53:31):
Learned all of the things about your boy, Bernese, I
got one more video on a play. It's only a
minute and a half long, just kind of wrapping it
all up. And now let's think if this hits a
little different than the first video I played. Let's go.

Speaker 8 (01:53:50):
Every day, millions of messages invade our screens. There aim
to direct our choices in purchasing, voting, or adhering to
an idea. They are omnipresent and shape our vision of
the world. They rely on persuasion techniques invented a century
ago in the United States. They were developed in less

(01:54:12):
than fifty years by a small group of thinkers in
order to control the masses. To impose their power, authoritarian
regimes used force. Western democracies invented public relations. One of
the group's leading theoreticians was Edward.

Speaker 7 (01:54:29):
Burney's public relations embraces what I call the engineering of consent,
based on Thomas Jefferson's principle that in the democratic society,
everything depends on the consent of the people.

Speaker 8 (01:54:52):
In forty years, Edward Burnez succeeded in turning a concept
of people governance into a reality firmly rooted in all
spheres of society. In nineteen ninety five, years before his death,
Life magazine named Edward Burnetz as one of the most

(01:55:13):
influential Americans of the twentieth century.

Speaker 3 (01:55:19):
Everything that you see is being used to influence you
in some ways, so much so that content creators are
now even called influencers. Right. They are going to promote
a product to you. They're going to try to make
you change your opinion of a political party or some
new thing that's happening. They're going to spin a narrative

(01:55:40):
to try to adjust your thinking onto it, right or
of it. I should say, it's all a part of
the plan. There are certain reasons why your algorithm is
promoting certain videos and certain clips and certain articles more
than others. That's all a part of the plan. And
it goes so deep, and it goes so far back

(01:56:00):
in history.

Speaker 2 (01:56:01):
Edward Burnees is a very.

Speaker 3 (01:56:03):
Good case study of it, but it does predate him
by a lot. The engineering of consent that is critical.
Thomas Jefferson said that the consent of the people is
the only way that a democracy can run, and I
agree with that full tilt, Okay, full stop. However, Bernese
wanted to engineer the consent to give the illusion of

(01:56:25):
people's consent even though they had never actually formally given it.

Speaker 2 (01:56:30):
There's a I feel like there's a bit of irony
in this episode actually, because here we are like trying
to let people know about you know, all of the
propaganda the essentially you know, he was the father of
propaganda and the father of misinformation essentially, just like how
do you tell a lie? Well, you tell a lie
based upon another lie, and it's it almost turns it

(01:56:52):
into truth based on public perception.

Speaker 3 (01:56:54):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:56:55):
But if it wasn't for Edward Burnes and you know,
working with ad companies and propagan you know, shifting public
opinion and everything. It almost makes me wonder if we
would even have a job today if it wasn't for him.

Speaker 3 (01:57:09):
You mean, like the conspiratorial conversation, I mean like podcasting
in general kind of yes, kind of no. Right, talk
shows have been a thing for quite some time, and
so I mean even radio talk shows Johnny Carson late
at night, like you name it. Having an open form
interview or an open form sharing of ideas and information.
That's been around for forever. But I don't believe that

(01:57:31):
you and I, yeah, we have our biases, but we
also are very open and honest about our biases.

Speaker 2 (01:57:36):
Right, That's we're not pushing an agenda by any means.

Speaker 3 (01:57:41):
Right, we are not being paid by like for instance,
during the election, we were more pro Trump. That's not
a secret. Still very open and honest about that to
this day, and I still would like him in charge
more than Kamala. Just gonna throw that out there as well.
But we weren't getting paid by the Trump administration to
promote that message. We were not being Uh we may

(01:58:01):
have been used as a part of the propaganda machine,
but it's not like we were benefiting from some some
faction of that. It's the same way that a doctor
could publish a medical journal saying that yo avocado oil
is the oil that we should be using to cook with.
Is he being paid by the avocado farmers possibly? Or
is he actually reporting his findings and now the avocado

(01:58:22):
industry can use that as propaganda for themselves. You see
what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:58:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. No, I just thought, you know,
it's it's interesting, but yeah, this old Edward Brenet's thing.
And as Jacob said, we could do many, many, many
more hours and many more shows on this guy. I
mean we only like barely graze the surface on, you know,
all of it. Like his mind was literally in so

(01:58:46):
many things all at the same time, whether it be
Guatemala and the banana and the fruit industry and all
that other shit, or the tobacco industry, or the Dixie
Cubs or the fucking the soap or any of these
other things. Like he was the mastermind in big corporations.
Big governments sought him out because of the way that

(01:59:07):
his mind worked in that way, and they all worked
like there was never like a like a failing effort.
Like it seems like motherfucker was bat in a thousand.

Speaker 3 (01:59:16):
He had a one success rate, which is that's how
this goes, which is pretty.

Speaker 2 (01:59:21):
I mean, that's just that's saying something I would say,
so brilliant mind not the standard for morality.

Speaker 3 (01:59:29):
No, absolutely not, because we were talking about big business, dude.
When you're talking about big business morality and decency, those
are just simply not in the equation. It's not important here.
It's about that mighty, mighty dollar bill.

Speaker 2 (01:59:42):
Yeah, buddy, so good cult members, let us know what
you think about this. Do you want to part two,
a part three, and even a fucking part seven, which
we can go even deeper into this bad boy literally
bad boy, and you know, let us know, there are
many of different ways that you can let us know.
One of those ways is to be able to reach
out to us on TikTok go, follow us on there,

(02:00:03):
on Instagram, on Twitter, we are everywhere. We are the
all seeing eye of the conspiracy Realm, baby, So keep
that third eye all the way open and come check
us out on all the different platforms if you want
to be able to support us. Obviously, you know we
mentioned Patreon earlier, but we do have a couple of
other ways if you want to come check us out.
Indeed we do.

Speaker 3 (02:00:23):
And as we're talking about propaganda and trying to incentivize
people to buy products and to be a part of
the consumeristic matrix that is the American culture, one way
that you can actually help break away from that would
be to actually invest in silver and gold bullion. Right
this is going to hold value way way into the future.

(02:00:43):
It is actually kind of taking back some of your
own financial freedom from the banks, from the market, from
the bricks and the USD and all the things. Silver
and gold has been used in currency since the beginning
of time. It's not going to stop anytime soon. It's
only going to increase in value. Will it is still
able to be bought while you can still afford it

(02:01:04):
right now. The best place to get your start would
be to go to cocsilver dot com link in the
description below and get your start. When you fill out
your information, Our homeboy Wayne Clark is going to be
the one to reach out to you. Do you want
to buy a little bit? Do you want to buy
a lot of bit? Do you want to become a
distributor of this product yourself? Listen, we're not saying that
you're gonna get rich quick from selling gold and silver.
If anything, I'm trying to help you have your own
financial freedom twenty years from now when the complete market crashes,

(02:01:27):
but you've got some silver that you're able to hawk
and still pay bills and put food on your table.
Right now, gold is over three thousand dollars an ounce.
If you could afford to buy some of that, buy
all means, get after it. If you can afford to
buy silver, it's like thirty five to thirty seven dollars
an ounce, depending on the day, while it's still affordable,
now is the time to buy once again. The link
is in the description below ceocsilver dot com. But another

(02:01:48):
way that you can support the show and like we
talked about, why do you think your algorithms are boosting
certain things? Why are when you to open the YouTube app,
why are certain videos in the top ten things that
you're looking up? Is because your YouTube channel, your YouTube
algorithm just knows what you're gonna look at? Or is
it because they're shoving certain things in front of your face?
Same with TikTok, same with Spotify, same with Apple podcasts.

Speaker 2 (02:02:10):
Here's the deal. This goes off.

Speaker 3 (02:02:12):
Of hits, It goes off of likes, it goes off
of contents, it goes or comments, I should say, it
goes off of activity on each of these platforms. If
you want to help us promote this show, get this
information to more human beings, especially this episode. Everybody needs
to hear this one. Then what you could do at
this time is please hit the five stars, hit the shares,

(02:02:33):
the like, suscribes comments, leave a post, a review of shares,
the defensive family shares. If we're here's the deal. The
more activity the algorithm sees across all of our listening platforms,
the more we get promoted, the more potential listeners who
could then be come potential call members. Are dressing final
ldies and gentlemen, why you're gonna go check out Meta Mysteries,
Jonath's other show and getting the same level of respect
over there with the five star views and pop civity
and the comments. Come check out the Cage to Night
and come join each of us for our individual Patreon

(02:02:54):
lives and we host every Wednesday night at nine pm Central.

Speaker 2 (02:02:57):
Links to those in the description.

Speaker 3 (02:02:58):
As well, and we thank you for everybody. Aready gone
and done so.

Speaker 2 (02:03:00):
And with that being said, this was another beautiful episode.
I'm the Cult of Conspiracy and my name's Jonathan, I'm Jake,
and there's one very important, that extremely vital piece of
information we need you to learn just as soon as
humans possible.

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#885- "The Cure For Propaganda Is More Propaganda" | The Father of PR | Edward Bernays

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#885- "The Cure For Propaganda Is More Propaganda" | The Father of PR | Edward Bernays