#889- The Voynich Manuscript | The Most Mysterious Book in History - Cult of Conspiracy

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh thats are hello, and welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
This is the Cult of Conspiracy, and my name is Jonathan,
I'm Jacob, and today we are going to be talking
about something that has been tried to have been cracked
for many, many many years by the smartest people to
have ever exist, and nobody's had any luck. Some people

(01:08):
have suggested that they have cracked the code. Some people
have suggested that AI has cracked the code. Some people
have suggested that Alan Turing couldn't even crack the code himself.
From the Imitation Game and if you ever seen that movie,
I mean, this is something that is so mysterious and
so mind boggling that it almost seems as if it's

(01:29):
Could it be hermetic? Could it be alchemical? Could it be,
you know, a language from Aliens? Could it be something
that was mystery school esque? And only those that were
able to be initiated could comprehend. Today we are talking
about the Voyinage manuscripts. Sir, are you aware of this

(01:51):
piece of parchment?

Speaker 3 (01:54):
I am. My knowledge based on it is very limited.

Speaker 4 (01:59):
There's been a quite a while since I dove into
it just to see what was up, because there was
a while where I was looking up because you see
national treasure right, and there's a there's a not just
code on the back of the Declaration of Independence, there's
also a map.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
And you have to be able to decipher the code.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
You have to use lemon juice and heat to make
this invisible ink come up, and then you have to
wear the glasses and like it's a great storyline. But
at one point in time I got curious about how
many of these treasure maps or or codexes that have
been undeciphered, How many of these things actually exist, And
to my surprise, there's a decent number of them.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Now most of them have been decoded. Right, most of them.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
It is a cipher and once you figure out the cipher,
you decode the message and boom, you got it. Although
the vast majority of these things, if they are like
a treasure map or something like that, when they follow
the trail and the breadcrumbs to the actual location where
the treasure's supposed to be, it's not there. And there's
like signs that somebody came and robbed the place a
couple centuries earlier or something like that. But these storyline

(03:00):
and the manuscripts and all these things themselves are still
very accurate. There was one everybody thinks of, like pirate treasure, right,
and he left a map to his treasure. There is
one example of a pirate who did anything like that, ever,
and he left it in a manuscript with a cipher
that was discovered. They went and tried to find it.
I want to say, it was like, not Jean Lafitte,

(03:21):
It was somebody like that. And when they got there
it had already been taken a few centuries before. But
the fact that this was like the the buried pirate
treasure and now it was cool shit, you know. So
that did lead me to discover the Voyanage manuscript. But
all I know about it right at this moment before
we get into it all document.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
They don't exactly know what is on it.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
There's some pictures, there's some looks like lettering of some type,
but we're not one hundred percent sure what it's trying
to tell us.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
That's about all I got.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Oh dude, it, I mean, we're gonna go all over
the place. Could this be alien stuff? Could this be
channel enokean angel stuff with Edward Kelly and shit like that.
There is so many different theories and you know how
it is, anytime that there is something that is extremely unknown,
it's always alien, right, Like that's where everybody wants to go.

(04:14):
And I'm not even trying to say that it's not
because I don't know. Nobody fucking knows what this is.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Right.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
So today we dive into the mystery of a book
that no one can read, a manuscript that has outwitted
the greatest cryptographers, baffled scholars and defied explanation for centuries
filled with plants that don't exist, diagrams of alien skies
and women bathing in strange fluids, and words written in
a language that no human has ever spoken, or have they,

(04:40):
because buried within this mystery may lie a darker truth
that the Voyage Manuscript was not written by a monk,
not by a scientist, and not by a trickster, but
by a man who claimed to speak with angels, a
man whose voice some say was not his own. Welcome
to the mystery of the Voyage Manuscript and the possibility
that it may have been channeled by Edward Kelly. We're

(05:03):
gonna get a little weird today, baby.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
All right.

Speaker 4 (05:05):
Before we do that, I'm sure we got a couple
of images and some videos that we're going to be
playing on this episode. So for all the good Cult
members that would like to see what we are talking
about rather than just hear about it, Jonathan, where can they.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
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(05:40):
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(06:04):
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(06:28):
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(06:48):
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(07:08):
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(07:29):
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Speaker 3 (08:01):
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Speaker 4 (08:01):
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Speaker 2 (08:48):
Let's go all right, so now we're going to get
into this voyage manuscript business here, dude, and anybody that's
never really heard of it. These are some of the
pictures and I just typed it in on on Duc
dug Go and you can see some of the uh,
some of the actual pictures and words that are that
are drawn and written here, and you're like, man, does

(09:11):
that look interesting? I mean, even the depth of some
of the pictures is pretty interesting itself.

Speaker 4 (09:16):
Right, I'm gonna say the artwork kind of looks medieval.
This was what fourteenth century, fifteenth century.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
I believe they said that whenever they were able to
carbon date it that it goes back to the fourteenth
or so, fourteen hundreds or fifteen.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
Hundreds, Okay, And that makes sense because the uh, the
gift of illumination, aka the ability to read and write
and draw pictures and make colors. Yeah, they saw that
as a gift. They didn't see that as something that
you would teach a kindergartener back then. It's crazy, but yeah,
there was a you could see. I mean I was
talking to some me about this the other day. When
you look at like ancient Rome. They had realism in

(09:53):
their artwork. Whether it was a sculpture, whether it was
a painting, whatever it was, they did everything they could
to make it look as true and real realistic as possible.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Cut to the Middle Ages.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
It all looks cartoony as hell, and it looks like
a kindergartner is drawing it. For some reason, none of
it looks realistic. Then the Renaissance comes about, and then
all of a sudden we are really into realism again,
and it's like, well, why did y'all stop, Why did
y'all stop trying to make good artwork? It's just like
sketch drawings and shit.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, well maybe that was beside the point. You know,
there's somebody who was I mean, if this is like
mystery school initiatory kind of stuff, then you're not going
to have somebody that is necessarily a great artist and
also able to decode the mysteries of humanity in the
universe and also be graded penmanship and graded writing ciphers.

(10:43):
You know what I'm saying. Maybe it's something like that.

Speaker 4 (10:46):
What I'm saying is based off of the look of
the artwork. That's how I was able to date it
to like the fourteenth century esque, Like, clearly this wasn't
from like ancient Greece range in Rome, but it obviously
was pre Renaissance.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
That's all I was saying, right right, Well, it is
interesting because it is based in flipping through the pages
of the manuscript, one thing that is commonly reoccurring seems
to be these women who and there's like an astrological calendar,
and they're all sitting in these baths. You'll see raid
here that they're always like sitting in some kind of

(11:17):
bath that is filled with some kind of green liquid,
and all these women, they're all naked. But what is
there one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve,
which would make sense for the constellations right for the
zodiacal wheel, And so maybe each one of these maidens
somehow represents a star alignment. And that's what a lot
of people have suggested that could this have been like

(11:40):
another way of looking at the heavens for example? Right?
And you know, it's it's like it's I don't know,
it's interesting looking at some of the artwork. The actual
verbiage has not been able to be deciphered. I mean,
some people have said that they've been able to crack
the code it is, and some people have said that like, oh,

(12:02):
this is just ancient Hebrew and they were actually onto
something a little bit. And some people were able to
decode like one of the first messages. And I don't know, dude,
it's it's hard to really understand. It doesn't really seem
to make a lot of sense. Even if you are
looking at it through an ancient Hebrewic eye, still doesn't

(12:24):
really make a lot of like sense as far as
oh my dog's a barkin. It doesn't really seem to
make a lot of sense as far as you know,
trying to trying to understand what the fuck it's saying.
And so it's been baffling people for literally centuries and
nobody really knows even when it comes from, who it

(12:44):
comes from, where it comes from. It is all around wild.
I mean, now they have dated it back to around
the fourteen or fifteen hundreds as far as carbon dating goes,
But does that necessarily mean that that's when it was written,
you know, could it have been a copy of a
copy or something like that. And that's where it gets
a little weird.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
So that's my other question.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
So the language inside of it, the actual letters and figures,
those are Hebrew letters or is it kind of an
amalgamation of some Sanskrit, some Hebrew, some Latin, Like what
are we talking about?

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Some well, and this is not accepted, not fully accepted.
I mean, there is no one thing that is fully
accepted as to what the fuck any of this is.
But some people suggest it could be ancient Hebrew, it
could be ancient Aramaic or something along those lines, right
and it But then you'll also have some people that

(13:38):
will say this is pre Latin, which is kind of
crazy too, you know. So so yeah, we're we're going
to be going all over the place. Kind of just
wanted to show some of those pictures so that you
know what we're talking about, especially if you're on Patreon,
you'll be able to see those pictures. But let's get
over to the discovery of the manuscript itself. So it
was discovered in nineteen twelve a rare book dealer named

(14:02):
Wilfred Voinage, which is where the name comes from, because
he was the one that quote unquote discovered it, even
though you know it was kind of talked about before then,
but he was the one. He was just a collector
of sorts, but he uncovered the mysterious codex in a
Jesuit college library in Italy, and he knew that it
was unlike anything else, a book that was written in

(14:22):
an unknown script, filled with illustrations of possible plants and
cryptic diagrams. So this is where it's kind of strange
is that it seems that the botany that was used,
like some of the plants that are depicted there, they
seem like off world shit. It doesn't match anything that
we have here. And so this is where the whole

(14:46):
idea of could it be alien? Because it's talking about
a star system that doesn't align with ours, it's talking
about plants that aren't found here on Earth. It brings
up certain alchemical things. I guess that nobody's been able
to crack the code on those, And so people are like, well,

(15:06):
did the aliens leave it here? Was this channeled information
from aliens or angels? And that's the only place you
can go, because otherwise it doesn't really make a whole
lot of sense. Could it have just been gibberish? Some
people suggest it was a hoax, So I mean, a
quite fucking elaborate hoax, by the way.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
I'm saying, if it was a hoax, if you're gonna
tell me that, possibly, and very very highly unlikely, But
possibly this was a monk or maybe even somebody who
was of the alchemical nature, whatever the case, who kind
of took some psychedelics one day too.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
They went a little too far into the other side
and just started writing shit down. And what does it mean.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
Well, it's kind of like you know, if you ever
like get really fucked up and write down some shit
that you're like, bro, this is next level genius. Then
you wake up the next day and you're just like, huh,
well that wasn't that wasn't nothing.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Is it possible?

Speaker 4 (15:57):
This is somebody that got a little ergot in their
system back in the day, wrote some shit down, then
woke up was like, hmmm, we're just gonna put that
back on the shelf and not worry about it. Cut
to the nineteen hundreds, this is discovered and it's like,
where's it married, Like, that's a possibility. But to your point,
it's a little too elaborate, and you could tell that
there is a pattern and a flow to all of

(16:17):
it to where it doesn't that would not check out
to me.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
No, Yeah, I don't buy the hoax, and most people
don't buy the hoax. Actually, of course you're gonna get
scholars and educated people that will say it has to
be a hoax. None of it makes any kind of sense.
I'm like, just because you don't understand it doesn't mean
that it's a hoax, you know what I'm saying, Like,
there's a lot of ancient shit. What was that thing

(16:41):
that that people were using in order to decode certain
to decode like certain tablets and stuff like that. What
was that called?

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Which culture you're talking about here? I get? Oh, the
Rosetta Stone.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Rosetta Stone, Yeah, that was the term. People probably thought
that that was hoax ish too, you know, before the
Rosetta Zone. Looking at all these ancient shit, So.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
Do you mean to tell me that the Egyptians right
from pictures, like, they don't actually have words, they have
pictures and people can just know what they mean.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
That sounds bullshit to me. Next thing, you know, Rosetta
Stone comes up.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
But it's like, oh, oh, we could decipher this, we
could read it.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Now, dope, let's get after it. Yeah, I see what
you mean.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right right, So maybe we just haven't stumbled upon the
Rosetta Zone to be able to decipher this. That's always
possible too. And look, we could end up finding out
that this was just a fucking story written for a
child in the fourteen hundreds. We don't know. It could
be literally anything at this point.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
Right, write a little fantasy novel or something back then,
but even still, that is also highly unlikely. Paper was
really expensive back then to have a book written like
this before the printing press. Right, so every single book
on earth was handwritten, every single Bible, every single religious
text of whatever religion you're talking about here. You had

(18:03):
dudes that would sit there day in and day out
and dedicate themselves to copying line for line from an
original text. Gutenberg coming up with the printing press changed
the entire game on that. But paper was expensive. Ink
was expensive. Making the colors for some of these illuminated
texts and pictures and all these things was expensive. It's
not like some old, some average Joe Blow was just

(18:25):
going to start writing some shit down one day and
just I'm going to write the next great French novel
or or Italian novel or whatever.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
That that wasn't a thought back then.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
So another crazy thing about this. So it is currently
still around. It's actually in one of the libraries at
Yale right now, but some people have suggested that some
of the pages are missing. So currently as it sits
right now, it's only two I'm finding differing reports ranging
from two hundred and thirty five to two hundred and

(18:57):
forty pages. But some people have suggad the people that
have flipped through the pages that there seems to be seams,
that there were some pages that were torn out, and
so they suggest that it could have as many as
two hundred and seventy two more pages or thirty two
to thirty seven more pages that could have been ripped out.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
Wow, okay, And I mean that's also expected when you
got older documents, right, I mean I just went on
my silent retreat this past weekend. Right, they have log
books of all their retreatings from like the nineteen forties
to now.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
So while I was there and I had.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
A little downtime, I went back and looked at like
when my grandfather's first retreat was, my dad made his
first retreat, my uncle's and all this. Some of these
older log books, they're all handwritten, right, Nobody has sat
there and like converted them to text because or to
like typing it out and printing it because why this
is like original document. Right, some of these books have
some pages that have been torn out. Now they're stuck
back in. But let's say over the course of two

(19:55):
hundred years, that page falls out one day and it's
just gone forever, like.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
You'll have that with very old books for sure.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Sure. Yeah, So whether it was taken out deliberately or
just due to the course of time, you know either one.
But it does suggest a rippage, which you know, like
a perfect rippage along the seam, So I don't know
if that's just going to magically fall out by a rib.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Right, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (20:19):
So anyway, your boy Wilfrid Voinage believed that he had
stumbled upon the secret legacy of medieval medieval alchemists. He
believed that it was an alchemical book that was written
during the medieval time. So the manuscript was eventually carbon
dated to the early fourteen hundreds, but its true author
has never been identified, and over the centuries it passed

(20:39):
through emperors, alchemists, and jesuits, always staying in the hands
of people obsessed with the occult and secret knowledge. Even today,
it sits locked in Yale's Binikey Library, a treasure of
riddles that refuses to reveal its secrets. So then we
get into the actual language. They've given in a name,
even though it has no name because it can't be

(21:00):
dated to anybody. The manuscript's script. They call voyage voya cheese,
voya cheese. It's a made up term, which, to be honest,
all words are made up anyway, so whatever, So they
call it voya cheese and it flows like a real language.

(21:21):
It has grammar, repetition and structure, but it matches no
known tongue. And during World War Two Allied code breakers
code breakers who cracked Nazi ciphers were asked to study it.
They failed. Linguist computer scientists and even modern AI have
all failed as well. If it is a hoax, it's
too consistent. If it's a code, it's unbreakable. And if

(21:42):
it's a language, then who on Earth or beyond Earth
spoke it? What if it was never meant for human
eyes at all, but possibly dictated from another realm? So
the language itself makes no damn sense to anybody.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
So I've heard that it was written in the Vulgate before,
but then it's also not completely Latin base, but it's
some kind of Romance language base based off like the
scented structure and how it's flowing and things like that.
Then I've also heard that it's uh, they consider it
proto Roman, right, which like, okay, see what you mean

(22:16):
by that is gibber jabblin, jumbled up. You're trying to
put an academic term for the the undefined.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Okay, basically there's just it's just coming up with words
at that point. As I said before, is that it
seems to have a bunch of plants in there that
don't necessarily match with anything that we have here on Earth.
One of them almost look like a giant man eater plant,
and I'll show the picture of that here in a
little bit. But no, necessarily it's like cartoon character man

(22:46):
eater plant, you know what I'm saying, Like off of
fucking Mario and stuff. It seems like that.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Oh nice.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
So the most striking illustrations are of plants that don't exist.
Some resemble hybrids, others look at terrestrial, and none match
botanical's catalog by medieval herbalists. If the book is a
pharmacological guide, these could be plants from a lost age,
remnants of Atlantis dare I say, or even flora that
have since gone extinct. Another possibility is that they are

(23:16):
not earthly plants at all, but records of vegetation from
another planet or even another dimension. So were these plants
meant to heal where they meant to alter consciousness, such
as anheogens or something like that. Could they have been
possibly gateways to other worlds. We're just getting weird here
where you can only hypoth size right right, So yeah,

(23:36):
it's it's weird. And by the way, I'm just going
over kind of the spark notes. We're gonna get a
little deeper. I'm just trying to show the fullness of
all of it, and then we'll get a little bit
more detailed for sure. And then there's also astrological astrological schematics,
So the manuscript also contains diagrams of stars and zodiac signs,

(23:56):
but the constellations don't quite match ours. Wheels and char
arts depict alignments that don't seem to fit Earth's sky.
Could the author have been recording the evans the heavens
from another vantage point? Or was this a mythical astrology
designed to tap into hidden cycles. Secret societies have always
used astrology to time rituals and rule the masses, and

(24:18):
maybe the voyage was part of that same esoteric toolkit,
which I do find it strange, you know, like entirely
different star system looking like and I find that It's
very strange because it's matched to the lunar cycles, which
kind of crazy. So you got the lunar cycles, you
got all the women, which you know that's Women are

(24:42):
usually associated with the moon in esoteric teachings and whatnot
because of the moon's effect on the periods and the
cycles and the fucking the oceans and all that kind
of stuff. Water is usually associated with the moon because
of the tides. You know that the moon allegedly gives
off and makes us have ties and tides and whatnot.

(25:03):
Water is usually associated with emotions. Women are usually a
lot more emotional because of I'm not trying to even
judge here, it's just the way that it is.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
No, but this also kind of ties into it being
more on the alchemical side of things, hypothetically. The reason
why I say that is because so like when we
talk about alchemy and we talk about the ancient alchemy
and things like that, you can't mention this without also
bringing up the Kabbala, right, And you can't bring these
up without mentioning ancient Egypt. So, for instance, do you

(25:32):
know why Easter is celebrated forty days after the vernal
equinox every year?

Speaker 3 (25:39):
I do know that give you a hint.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
It has to do with hebrew It has nothing to
do with paganism. Sure, So the Hebrews use a lunar calendar, right,
So that's why Passover is always so far after the
vernal equinox, because by their traditions they are to use
a lunar calendar in their year.

Speaker 5 (25:59):
Right.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
So when we talk about alchemy and we talk about
the Cabala, we talk about ancient Egypt and all these
areas of the world that may be transferred into the
medieval ages. If you're saying that it's showing more of
a lunar calendar cycle within this book, that kind of
leads more credence to it being more of an alchemical
text rather than just a children's book that has been undecipherable.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Well, and it's and you know, the Hebrews weren't really
the first to base it off of the moon and
lunar and all that kind of stuff. If you look
at like cultures that have done that, like Chinese astrology
and the Chinese New Year I believe is based off
of like the the first new moon or the first
full moon of the year or something like that. So yeah,

(26:40):
I mean working with the fucking moon. It gets it
gets a little weird. So then there's also a biological
section to the voyage manuscript. Whole pages depict naked women
immersed in green fluids connected by tubes, entering strange chambers.
Some look like fertility rich and others look like laboratory experiments.

(27:03):
Modernized can't help but see images that echo DNA cellular
processes and bioengineering. How could a fifteenth century manuscript show
imagery that looks like proto biotech, unless, of course he
didn't acknowledge, or he didn't knowledge, or the knowledge, I'm sorry,
didn't originate here, which kind of reminds me of the matrix.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
I was gonna say, the matrix. It sounds that way
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
They were they were in like giant tubes, and I
I believe the liquid was green, right, that.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
There was red, But everything in the matrix world is
a tint of green.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Right, right, And so I don't know. And then you
hear stories like, oh, we've had on Karen Anderson I
think was her name, and she would always talk about
how she was abducted and it was always like fertility rituals,
and they were trying to you know, get her impregnated
with alien DNA and she ended up having so many
different you know, uhregnancies that didn't go full term. And man,

(28:04):
I don't know, it makes you wonder like that that
to me, like it just I don't know. I guess
it depends on what you think about aliens, Like do
you think that they can enter your dreams? Do you
think that they can enter your conscious mind? Or are
they just physical beings in that sense? Like I tend
to go more on the conscious side as far as

(28:25):
being able to jump into your mind and jump into
your dreams and more of a you know, an alternate
dimensional kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
You know what, I don't know that. I think they're
more on the physical side personally.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
But yeah, and even if they are physical, who's to
say that they wouldn't have the capabilities to be able
to tap into your mind in that way? We don't know.

Speaker 4 (28:47):
There's a lot of stories of people communicating with them telepathically,
even when one is standing in front of their face,
like physically standing there, but still somehow communicating telepathically and
like to that realm. I I honestly don't have an opinion.
I don't know, because a lot of these stories. It's uh.
I'm not saying it's bullshit or that these people are wrong.

(29:07):
I'm saying that there is an insane amount of stress
and pressure and anxiety associated with every one of these stories,
and the mind, we do know, lies to you and
plays tricks on you. I'm not saying that they're making
it up. I'm not saying that it's one hundred percent true.
I'm saying that I honestly can't weigh in on that.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Well. The mind is also a very interesting place to
be because it is how we experience reality. Yeah, you know,
like it like every single bit of information that comes
into our mind is filtered through all of our senses
and everything and then coagulated inside of the mind in
a sense. And that's why I heard somebody say this.
I thought it was pretty interesting that somebody said that

(29:46):
your personal or your personality is your personal reality, and
I was like, that's an interesting way to look at it,
because you know, you and your brother couldn't be more
different individuals, right, Like, you both in the same house,
you both had the same parents, you both went to
the same schools, you both ate the same fucking food,
you watch the same TV. Shows you probably played the

(30:06):
same video games right.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
To the same church, like all the things.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, and so, but his reality is so much different
than yours, night and day, night and day I'm talking
about even like speech patterns are entirely different, like make
no damn sense, and the same thing for me, Like
you know, my brother and my sister went totally different
in their lives. Nobody's saying that, you know, somebody did
it right or wrong. And I'm not even saying that.

(30:31):
I'm just saying the way that individuals perceive reality is
always different, and it varies from individual to individual, right,
And so if the mind is the you know, the
the factor in there as far as what we are
experiencing in reality, then that would mean that each individual

(30:52):
could perceive aliens or whatever in some kind of different sense, right,
Like you had a whole demonic experience and it ain't
experience Like I mean, I would imagine that there are
probably some people out there that hear your story and
they're like, this guy's full of shit. These things don't exist, Well,
they don't exist to that person, maybe, you know, at
least as far as their mind goes.

Speaker 4 (31:13):
Even to the conversation about aliens. We talked about Rendell
Sham Forest. We talked about how there were three eyewitnesses
that all saw the exact same thing. Two of them
were literally standing next to each other, yet they give
three completely separate reports. Some say there was a physical
craft on the ground, Some say it was just lights
in the sky. Some say that they had there was
no craft, but there was intentions of a craft. Two

(31:35):
of these dudes are standing next to each other and
they can't even agree if there was a craft on the.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Ground or not.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Right, Yeah, I saw.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
I mean, yeah, your mind, in your perception, will absolutely
play tricks on you, lead you astray, tell you the truth?

Speaker 3 (31:49):
What is your truth?

Speaker 2 (31:50):
I'm with you on this right and even look at
you know, like Ezekiel's prophecies in the Bible and not
Ezekiel in Revelation, with Ezekiel's dreams and shit like that, right,
like the.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Way it was John? But yeah, was it John?

Speaker 2 (32:05):
I thought it was Ezekiel.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
The Book of Revelation was written by John the Revelator.
But the Book of Ezekiel is also a prophetic book.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
But that's Old Testament.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
But moving on, Okay, But what I'm trying to say
is they're trying to they're trying to depict and understand
something that of which their mind doesn't know what to
do with that information. And so that's where you get
the idea of, oh, there's a fucking wheel and it
has a bunch of eyes and it's floating in the
sky and it's communicating. And it's like, what are you saying?

Speaker 4 (32:31):
How does somebody from one thousand BC describe a rocket
ship that they saw in a dream?

Speaker 2 (32:39):
I mean, I'd never looked at a rocket ship and
saw eyes though, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
It's like everybody also never seen a rocket ship or
metal of that construction. So they're thinking it's a giant
metal dragon. It's flying and there's fire, so clearly that's
a dragon.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
I guess.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
I'm just I don't know, Like I see what you're
saying with this, your mind is gonna give you because
your mind is a computer essentially, right.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
Your eyes are kind of like cameras.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
It's taking light and it's going through and your brain
is processing that information makes sense of it. Your ears
are sensors that are telling your brain this is what
you're hearing at this moment, smell, taste.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Feel, all these things.

Speaker 4 (33:15):
It's feeding information to your computer so that it can
process it and make heads or tails of whatever's going on.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
So now I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Well, and just as far as my research on you
know what DMT is capable of doing, and the studies
over at the Imperial College of London with the DMTX studies,
it's like what they found was that, you know, a DMT,
it doesn't make you have an illusion. It just gives
you all the information. And we're not used to getting

(33:43):
all the information all at once. It has to go
through a filter, it has to go through a condenser
in order for us to really understand and whittle it
down to the most minute thing possible. Right, And so
they say that you know, you and your waking life,
whenever you're in that beta process of your mind, which
is you know, that's whenever you're marst awake, that even
when you're in that stage, you're only processing five to

(34:04):
seven percent of all the information around you. But whenever
you're on DMT, somehow you have access to damn near
a hundred, right, And so the mind is a fucking
weird place, and so I just want to throw it
out there. People are able to get into altered states,
which maybe that uh, that that percentage of perception of reality,

(34:25):
maybe it broadens a little bit, and that might be
what we're talking about right here. I don't know, you know,
because you think about ancient rituals, if you really think
about it, you really try and boil it all the
way down, get rid of the fluff whatever. Right, every
time somebody was doing a ritual, every time somebody was
going into a trance, every time somebody was trying to
contact the unseen, it was just trying to broaden the

(34:48):
senses of that of which we are incapable of doing
in regular sober reality. That's really all they were doing. Like,
and just to really get to the bare bones of it,
like maybe the we're fucking I don't know, talking to angels,
maybe they're talking to aliens, maybe they're talking to Egyptian gods.
But at the bare minimum bones of what we're talking
about here, they're talking about in two and communicating with

(35:12):
individuals and intelligences out there that we don't have the
capabilities to do in our regular waking life.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
Okay, I'm with you now.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
The intention behind that, like you said, could have been
varied from its case by case, but just boiling it
down to its bare bones.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
I think you're only one there, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, yeah, So anyway, just want to get a little
weird there. So yeah, we went to the biological section.
There's another section in there that actually shows like potential,
like alchemy and like jars and stuff like that. So
the another section shows jars, containers, and vessels that resemble

(35:50):
alchemical tools, recipes that seem to be embedded in the text,
suggesting concoctions for transformation, healing, and potentially immortality. This is
fueled speculation that the manuscript was a pharmaceutical codex for
the elite, preserving dangerous knowledge outside the reach of ordinary people.
If the plants are extinct and the formulas are forgotten,

(36:11):
then this book may represent a lost science and intersection
of chemistry and magic. So you can only speculate, right,
But the pictures, you know, sometimes a picture is worth
a thousand words, as they say.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Now for sure, and I mean there is some kind
of a historical precedence for that being a possibility.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
So have you ever heard of silphium?

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Sulfium? No? No, sylphium No, okay, still no.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
Sylphium is a plant that is extinct on our Earth today.
But the reason why it is so extinct is because
Romans picked it and used it so prevalently that they
picked it to extinction. It was so popular that it
was on the back of Roman coinage at one point
in time. We would also think of this very similarly to.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
A early form of herbal abortion.

Speaker 4 (37:02):
Oh so it was a plant that you could ground
down and make it into a paste, and you know,
you would do some medicinal things with it, and if
a woman was pregnant that did not want to be pregnant,
she would ingest sylpium and it would remove the baby
in the embryo and all that.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Now, it had.

Speaker 4 (37:23):
A really, really really high success rate. And this was
completely all natural herbology, and it was done so heavily
for so long that it's not something that we even
have on our planet today. There's like second cousins to
the original plant that you could find, because there are
certain ancient recipes that call for silphium as like an
herb or a spice to be used in the cooking,

(37:44):
not for medicinal purposes, just for the flavoring. But and
they still to this day have something close to it.
But not the original plant that was on the back
of roaming coins, right right, So as far as like
we're talking about alchemy and herbology and are these plant
it's something that was used in some sort of medicinal
or poisonous manner from back in the day that might

(38:06):
be extinct in our world today. I mean there is
at least some historical precedence to that being the case.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
Well, and that's a thing just as far as you know,
you would hear about apothecaries full of all these different
kinds of herbs that were able to do all these
wild things. Like first thing comes to my mind is chrysanthemum, right, Like,
that's just a flower that was always used in those
kind of apothecaries, and and and I hope that we're
eventually going to get back to using natural herbs for

(38:36):
curing everything, right Like ideally that does make the most sense. Yeah, right,
like people or who are using like elderberry to to
get healthy. You had mentioned that, right, Like, I love it,
Like that's the the way because if we are native
to this earth, we as in the human I'm not
even talking about the soul or any of that shit.

(38:56):
I'm just saying the human. If we are native to
this earth, then you would imagine that there are loads
of remedies that would be natural to the human.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, just bot doubt.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
I'm personally of the belief that God, the Creator, the universe,
whatever thing you want to call that, right, not thrown shade.
I believe that they hooked us up and gave us
everything that we need to fix whatever we can come
up with on this earth. Now, I might be on
a different continent somewhere. Maybe it takes a little cooperation
to get your hands on some of these herbs, right,

(39:31):
maybe it doesn't grow in all environments and things like that.
I'm with you on this, but there's also a limit.
I think, as of this moment, I could be wrong.
I hope I'm wrong as a matter of fact, because
if something that's happened to you is of a true
chemical nature, not alchemy, like really and truly a new
chemical that was produced in a lab somewhere is introduced

(39:51):
to your body, I'm not so sure that we have
a natural remedy to fix a man made problem as
far as that goes.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Perhaps in that case.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
We need a little chemistry to combat chemistry, right, fight
fire with fire? But I am not one hundred percent
sold on that as of this moment. I'm leaving a
little bit of wigger room for the human X factor,
if you will.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
I would say that there's probably even plants for that. So,
like like I said, case by case, you know. So
for example, if anybody's ever looked and I just saw
this video yesterday, it was a Terence McKenna talking and
he said, it makes no sense that ayahuasca is a
thing like it doesn't because it's too basically like stagnant.

(40:35):
Not stagnant, but two things that go into making the
ayahuasca tea. That who would ever think to combine these
two elements because alone and I don't know what they are,
but one of them's from a bark and another one
is from something else, maybe from some dirt or something
like that. But who would have thought to combine these
two elements that singularly by themselves do nothing to the

(40:59):
human brain and do nothing to the body at all.
But when combined, they they they send you into the
fucking other world. You know what I'm saying. It's like
who would have thought? And and if you listen to
the natives, you know of whatever territory. They'll always say, well,
the plants told us, you know what I'm saying, so

(41:19):
and maybe you can look at that as God told
us or whatever. Maybe that's how God would speak to you,
is through these certain plants. I know that we've all
had certain levels of communication through mushrooms and whatnot. And
so it's like, is it is it the mushroom, the
the essence or the soul of the mushroom that is
telling you to do this or telling you to do that,
or maybe it's just sparking something inside of you, like

(41:41):
why is it that we have DMT receptors? Why is
it that we have THC receptors? Like was this something
that was kind of evolved over time, because that's all
the ancestors used to do to be able to try
and figure out where the fuck that came from or
something right like?

Speaker 4 (41:56):
And I also think that whenever you're in an area
for thousands of years and you work with your environment
and the plants that are growing there for thousands of years,
you're gonna learn, if by nothing else trial and error,
what things will kill you, what things won't kill you,
what things are good for you. And you're gonna mix
a match from time to time to just trial and
error figure out what things taste better together, which things

(42:18):
taste worse together. And oh my god, if you mix
part A with part B of this thing, bro, you
get some wild ass drinks and look, wait a minute, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
It's like, uh, Kat Williams said, he goes, Look, all
marijuana is is just a plant that grows. But if
you just so happen to break it down and light
it on fire, that's whenever it becomes magical, right, that's.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
Not a drug now. Now, on the other hand, Cocaine,
the coca leaf is not a drug. Coca leaves are
not a drug. Making tea out of the coca leaves
is not a drug.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
Now.

Speaker 4 (42:54):
When you take it and you press it down and
you cook it and you add acetone and you gotta
keep stirring it and you gotta cut it and you
gotta that this at.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
That time, it is now a drug. Okay, there's levels
to this shit.

Speaker 4 (43:03):
I agree with Kat Williams on a lot, specifically that case.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Kes Williams is the fucking man, dude. Could you imagine
getting him on him on the show. One of these days.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
I would have so many questions for him. But I
also think that he would hate.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
A lot of our talking points.

Speaker 4 (43:20):
Just from interviews that I've seen and things. He's like,
he's tight with Lewis fair Kahn. You know, take that for.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
What it is.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Okay, well, we disagree with him on that part. But
but most of the other shit, he's just a very
interesting individual.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
Oh for sure, he.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
Was calling out people earlier and then come to find
out more and more of these things have been disclosed.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
It's like, ooh oh, dude. Over his interview with fucking
Channon Sharp was like the most viral podcast of all time.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
Did you watch the entire thing? Yeah, dude, so, oh
my god.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
For a minute that I thought like, Okay, he's gonna
he's gonna like make a joke. He's gonna bring this
around because he's a comedian.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
That's what he does.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
No, bro, I don't know how he's still alive, to
be honest with.

Speaker 4 (44:02):
You, because he's untouchable and because he's never he's nobody's boy. Yeah,
seems like, yeah, sonny, how let's get back to the voyage.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
So there is a Jesuit and Emperor connection. As I mentioned, earlier.
The voyage passed through the hands of Emperor Rudolph the Second,
who paid a small fortune for it. And I can't
remember it was like six hundred of their dollars or
whatever back then. I don't know what that accumulates to now,
but it's said that he paid for Rudolph.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
I want to say it was Prussian, but I'm not sure.
I'm gonna look this up.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
Emperor Rudolph the second, he paid a small fortune for
the for the voyage, and Rudolph was obsessed with the
occult and collected works on alchemy and hidden sciences.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
And then laterus me holy Roman Emperor rode off the second,
excuse me so holy? Later this was fifteen fifty two
to sixteen twelve when he lived. Just we're all clear
about the time frame here, King of Bohemia and Archduke
of Austria. Okay, I was right, So like Prussia, Germany,
that area of the world.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Fuck yeah, okay, all right. So then later the Jesuits
hid it in their libraries. It just makes you wonder,
why would this guy go to the ends of the earth. Well,
I don't know. If he went to the end of
the earth, he ended up paying a large sum of
money for this object. Why would you do that if
you can't read the fucking thing. Nextly, the Jesuits are like,

(45:29):
it's ours and nobody's getting their hands on it. If
it's gibberish, if it's a hoax, if it's a nothing.
Why are these people going like to these crazy lengths
to pay for it and hide it and not allow
anybody else to be able to look at it. They
had to have known something about this, right.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
So yeah, I'm looking at now.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
Rudolph the second was deeply fascinated with the occult, especially
astrology and alchemy, which he promoted at his court in Prague,
hoping to discover the philosopher's stone and elixir of life.
He was a prominent He invited prominent occultists and scientists
such as John d and Edward Kelly to his court,
where they conducted alchemical experiments and other esoteric studies in

(46:12):
a support of atmosphere. So to that point it completely
makes sense to me. And then you also think about
the Jesuits. So the Jesuits were the teachers of the
Catholic Church, and by that I don't mean they taught
priests how to be priests. I mean, if there was
a Catholic school somewhere, the Jesuits were the ones running
the school. They were like the most educated. So these

(46:33):
dudes knew multiple languages. These dudes knew different texts and
different belief systems and all of these things. So if
there was something that needed to be deciphered or some
kind of new information that was out there, they being
the ones that are supposed to be the knowledge base
of the Catholic Church, was one of the powers that
be at the time. Of course, they don't want to
get their hands on it so that they can break
it down, they can decipher it, they can gain the

(46:56):
knowledge from it, these types of things.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
For sure, I can understand.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
This, sure, but they had to at least had an
inkling that it was something that was not a hoax, Right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:06):
Rudolph wouldn't have spent that much money, especially because he
was bringing in real polymaths and real alchemists to his court.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Dude, Edward Kelly and John d You know what I'm saying.
You don't just bring around people like that if if
it's a nothing burger.

Speaker 4 (47:23):
This dude was not bringing around like the time and
place of like Chris Angel mind freak and David Blaine
to perform illusions for him for his entertainment. You don't
call John D and Edward Kelly to your court for
illusions and entertainment, right, right. So if he's spending that
kind of money to bring them to their court so
that they could do experiments, and you're spending this kind

(47:44):
of money on this manuscript, that leads more credence to
it absolutely not being fake or a hoax or something
along these lines.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
And by the way, Aleister Crowley wouldn't have been a
thing if it wasn't for John D. And Edward Kelly,
like that's where he got a lot of his own
curiosities from.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Yep, absolutely agree.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
So why were such powerful institutions protecting it? Perhaps because
it contained dangerous truths, or perhaps because they wanted to
ensure only their circle could use it. The pattern is clear.
This was never treated like a curiosity. It was treated
almost damn near like a weapon. So then there are
failed detectors as far as this whole thing goes, as
far as scholars and whatnot. So every attempt to decode

(48:26):
the book has failed. Scholars, scientists, and AI all left
with nothing. Perhaps because the manuscript is not meant to
be decoded with reason alone. Some suggest it could. It
could require the right state of mind, an initiation, a ritual,
or even the right bloodline to open it. That would
make the Voyage not just a book but a keyed artifact,

(48:49):
useless to the uninitiated, but potent to those who know
the code. So I do have a website that suggests
that AI did crack the code. I know that not
everybody is in on the whole AI thing, but it's
no dummy. You know, it has been able to crack

(49:10):
a lot of codes. AI is. It's a fucking miracle thing,
it really is. I know that some people think that
the powers to be you're gonna take it to its
craziest extents and trap and you know, jail humanity. But
and that's always possible. I'm not even saying that it's not.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
But AI use this purpose though.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
This is what it does, right, It tracks patterns and
that like using AI as a tool for decoding things.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
I'm with it one hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
I have no issue with AI decoding ancient texts and
ciphers and shit that we can't figure out. Giving AI
sentience is my issue but that's a conversation for another
time right right now on that one today. But absolutely
there's been a multiple manuscripts that they have had to
use AI to decipher intocode, and it's got a great
track record as of this time for it.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Look, even the Amish used to think that electricity was
of the devil, and now you see some of them
with power tools. Okay, I'm just gonna say, but give
it a little bit of time.

Speaker 4 (50:06):
I'm an electrician, so or I was at one time
an electrician. By the Amish standpoint, you could call that
witchcraft exactly. Yeah, where is that power compani dud? I mean,
nobody really knows what electricity actually is though. That's the
crazy thing about it. It's the movement of electrons, but
we don't understand what force actually moves them across the medium.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
Like we understand the math behind it.

Speaker 4 (50:28):
We understand what it is, we don't understand how it
is or why it is.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Yeah, I mean you can you can look into what
is it the alternate current? And what does DC stand
for direct current? Direct current? And because I think direct
current is the faster version of the AC.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
Right, Yeah, but that like batteries are DC right out
of your wall is AC because there's like three or
two or depending on if it's a four eighty or
two twenty or whatever. It's like sinus soidal waves and
it's the alternating current of the highs and the lows
that you're using.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
DC is more like complete on or complete off.

Speaker 4 (51:02):
But yeah, my point is though we understand how it works,
like as far as the math behind it, we understand
how to control it, how to manipulate it, how to
harness all these things, but we have no idea what
actually is the driving force to move it from point
A to point B on this wire, and it just
does that.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Well, that's just science in general. It'll always tell you
how something does, how something works, but not necessarily why,
you know. So, yeah, just to get a little bit
more into the AI stuff here, this is from science
alert dot com and this was a This is written
in twenty eighteen, so it's kind of old now at

(51:41):
that point, but it says AI may have finally decoded
the bizarre mysterious voyage manuscript. I find it interesting that
it was twenty eighteen article because AI wasn't readily available
to the masses at that point, right.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
Which is why it would make sense though, because academic
and scholars and all these things.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
It's at Yale, right, so it makes sense that.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
The earliest four or not earliest, but in twenty eighteen,
when only certain scholarly people were even messing around with AI,
it makes sense to me that they would use that
AI to try to decipher this at the time, for sure.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
So for centuries it's been the book that no human
can understand, but we may finally now be able to
read it thanks to machines invented a half millennia after
it was written. The Voyage Manuscript, often called the world's
most mysterious book, consists of some two hundred and forty
pages of cryptic text written in an intricate, unknown language,
accompanied by strange diagrams and illustrations, and even has the UH.

(52:40):
It even has fold out pages, which is pretty cool,
especially whenever you get over to the constellation. Portions that
there will be pages that like extend upon the pages
that are in there. So it has fold out pages,
which is pretty nifty for a medieval tume Tom Tom
Tom dated to the early fifteenth century. The thing is,

(53:02):
nobody knows what the heck all this is getting at
the meanings of the text inscribed on pages of ancient
vellum are thought to have eluded human comprehension for centuries.
It's been owned by alchemists and emperors, before surfacing in
modern times in the early twentieth century, when a Polish
book dealer called Wilfrid Voinage chanced upon it in nineteen twelve,

(53:24):
unwittingly lead lending to the mysterious book to his name.
Since then, any number of cryptographers, code breakers and linguists
have attempted to unravel the secrets of the Voyage Manuscript,
but the obscure code contained in its pages, along with
strange drawings of plants, symbols, and bathing women, has defied explanation. Now,

(53:44):
thanks to Canadian computer scientists Canada doing something up there,
it looks like we may have a new lead in
the case. Researchers from the University of Alberta have used
artificial intelligence to decode sections of the ancient manuscript, using
a technique called algorithmic decipherment to reveal the underlying encrypted
language hidden behind the strange books words. It's not an

(54:07):
easy thing to do, the team explains in their paper,
given the number of unknowns involved. The Voyage Manuscript is
written in an unknown script that encodes an unknown language
the author's right, which is the most challenging type of
decipherment of a dicipher decipherment problem. Testing their algorithm on
three hundred and eighty different translations of the Universal Declaration

(54:28):
of Human Rights, the researcher system was able to correctly
identify the language of origin ninety seven percent of time's
that's pretty impressive.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Well, ninety seven percent.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Shit ninety seven. Next, they focused the AI on the
pages of the Voyage Manuscript, which the team suspected may
be written in Arabic. The AI didn't agree, indicating Hebrew
was most likely the source, edging out the other potential
matches that weren't commonly used for writing during the Middle Ages.
The researchers hypothesized the cipher acting on the Hebrew language

(55:03):
could be an example of alphabetically ordered anagrams called alpha grams,
rearranging the order of letters and words while dropping the vowels. Oh,
that's interesting, because that's that's what you would.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
Do in Hebrew. They have no vowels.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Well, the same thing goes for like if you're ever,
trying to craft a sigil, you always take out the
repeated letters and all the vowels if you're making a sigil.
So I don't know if it's alchemical would make sense? Right.
Attempting to unscramble the first ten pages of the text
with their AI produced mixed results. It says. It turned
out that over eighty percent of the words were in

(55:40):
a Hebrew dictionary, but we didn't know if they made
sense together, says it says one of the team, computational
linguist Greg Kondrac. So that's interesting. And also isn't it
interesting that like it would be in Hebrew?

Speaker 3 (55:56):
It's very interesting if it's if.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
It's you know, the fourteen hundreds, they weren't writing in
that shit anymore.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
I mean, the only people that would have been using
it at that time would have been the Hebrews, right
or alchemists.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Well, I guess it only reason I say that, and
I'm unaware of how, you know, far back languages and
stuff like that stopped being used. But isn't the reason
why the Bible wasn't originally all Hebrew is because the
Greeks came, and that's like, and then it kind of
forced Hebrew out in a sense.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
Okay, so it didn't force Hebrew out. They took on
something called Aramaic, which was a Hebrew Greek hybrid that
was more seen as the common tongue of Judea.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
At that time.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
But the only time that true Hebrew has ever actually
spoken and written was like in temple or in synagogue
or in the show where you're teaching the young kids
how to read the Torah and the true Hebrew writing. Right,
But like as far as the spoken tongue goes, it
would have been more of the uh, the the what
I just say a second ago, it starts Arameic thing

(57:05):
I was thinking Alchemic, which.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Is what I believe. That's why they said Jesus spoke
was Aramaic.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
Right, correct? At that time frame when Jesus walked the earth.

Speaker 4 (57:12):
Yes, the area of Judea was owned and ruled by
the Romans, but the Jewish population still was they were
speaking Aramaic at this time, right. But it's kind of
like saying, if you could speak Arabic, you could probably
understand and speak Greek pretty well, because they're kind of
like second cousins, although it's got more.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Like a Jewish spin on it.

Speaker 4 (57:31):
But also keep in mind that the Romans were in
charge of them, so they also had a decent understanding
of the Latin language because Egypt is so close, they
could understand the Coptic language because they were surrounded by
Arab states which just before Islam took over, but you
still had the Semitic Arab languages. So like, this area
is such a blending and such a melting pot of

(57:53):
the majority of the known world at this time that
they all had a decent understanding of so much. But
to that point, right, if we look at Mary the Jewis,
which is the mother of alchemy, all of her notes
were written in Hebrew, even though she was alive in
the first century AD, So even though she in the
common tongue would have been speaking Aramaic and Greek and

(58:16):
the Latin and all these things, her actual alchemical writing
was done in correct traditional Hebrew, right, because that's typically
alchemy is done in one of only two or three
languages Egyptian, Hebrew, and you could also argue the Semitic
or Islamic languages, but that's for another time. But like
these are pretty much what it's all done. And then

(58:37):
the Greeks whenever they took over Alexander the kind.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
Of okay, maybe you've heard of him. When he took
over this area.

Speaker 4 (58:43):
They indoctrinated and adopted a lot of Egyptian customs and
beliefs into their own right. But on the way to
Egypt you go through the area that we would call
Israel today, So they ran into the Jews and the
Hebrews and all these things. Then that's why we had
this crazy Greek to Egyptian blending that happened over such
a long period of time. Then Rome wants to be

(59:06):
everything that Greece was and then some that's why they
formed most of their country to be just like Greece,
but better. And then they adopted a lot of the
Greek ideologies into their own but made it super Roman.
Then took over Egypt and tried to blend the same thing,
which is when you get the whole mark Antony and
Cleopatric conversation. Like there was a big blending of all

(59:26):
of these cultures around the Mediterranean for the better part
of a thousand years.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
So yeah, very well. So the uh here's a little
bit of this is a picture of some of the
scribbles that some people call it. Maybe it's gibberish, maybe
it's actually a language, maybe it was an ancient hedrew
Hebrew way of looking at things. But you can see
it's like really good penmanship though, you know what I mean,

(59:50):
Like it seems like it was scholarly almost written.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Yeah, it's clean. This ain't just some scribble scrabble by
any means.

Speaker 6 (59:58):
So.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Failing to find any Hebrew scholars who could help validate
their findings, the researchers eventually resorted to using Google Translate.
But even though they acknowledged that there's still that there's
some guesswork involved, there does seem to be a match
with the text and the opening section of the herbal
chapter or herbal if you're Martha Stewart of the Voyage manuscript,

(01:00:20):
which contains drawing of several kinds of plants. Many botany
related terms appear, including farmer, light, air, and fire. Coincidence
maybe not. As for how the most mysterious book in
the world starts, well, fairly ambiguously as it turns out,
but would you expect anything else. This is how Ai

(01:00:40):
was able to decode the first sentence of this book.
It's kind of crazy, it says, she made recommendations to
the priest, man of the house, and me and people.
That's the first sentence of the book. Let's see, I
don't think they ever went any farther, because you know,
people have discredited the AI understanding and deciphering and stuff

(01:01:03):
like that. But even still, she made recommendations to the priest,
the man of the house, and me and people. What
the fuck does that mean?

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
Why?

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
What kind of story starts with that?

Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
So let's talk about that whoever she might be, right whatever,
made recommendations, meaning they had at least some sort of insights.
Maybe you could argue some sort of authority on this
manner or on this matter. Maybe they had a little
more intellect on the conversation whatever to the priest, the

(01:01:36):
man of the house. So right off the top, we're
talking about two authority figures in any society and culture.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Ever, then, what were the other two?

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Me and the people?

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Whoever me is?

Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
So we're talking about the writer specifically, who is obviously
an educated person to even know what the hell is
going on here, and then the people, meaning the masses.
Although I do find it interesting that they went in
this order, right, So the priest, the man of the house,
me then the people. So it's like almost in order

(01:02:07):
of precedence of import you see what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, just as far as
hierarchy goes.

Speaker 4 (01:02:14):
And I don't know that for a fact, but that
is very interesting that they would list it in such
a manner.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
So it says recommendations to do with herbal botany. Perhaps
the team says, we can't be sure. It came up
with a sentence that is grammatical and you can interpret it,
says contract. It's kind of a strange sentence to start
a manuscript, but it definitely makes sense. That said, the
team acknowledges they need the assistance of ancient Hebrew historians
to take their decoding further and to conform or into

(01:02:42):
confirm that we're not conjuring algorithmically derived misinterpretations out of
the Voyage Hayes Voyniches. Rather, their results presented in this
section could be interpreted either as tantalizing clues for Hebrew
as the as the source language of the Voyage manuscript,
or simply as artifacts of the combinatorial power of anagramming

(01:03:04):
and language models.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
They write.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
In any case, the output of an algorithmic decipherment of
a noisy input can only be a starting point for
scholars that are well versed in the given language and
historical period. Given how much we still don't know, it's
an exciting new lead for further investigations into decoding the
engine puzzle. Not that everybody in the voyage obsessed cipher
community is necessarily convinced by the team's AI based approach.

(01:03:30):
I don't think that they are friendly to this kind
of research, Contract told the Canadian press. But he points
out that there's a real opportunity for further discoveries here
in the Hebrew hypothesis is on point. After all, somebody
with very good knowledge of Hebrew and who's a historian
at the same time could take this evidence and follow
this kind of clue. Can we look at these texts
closely and do some kind of detective work and decipher

(01:03:52):
what can be the message? So he's like, look, I
started it off, maybe this is some kind of hint,
and may you bring it over to Hebrew. Now this
wasn't twenty eighteen, but I haven't been able to find
anybody else that have been able to quote unquote decipher
it yet, So I think the jury is still out
on that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:10):
Okay, Wow, I'm surprised they didn't go further with that,
either with an AI model or by getting somebody who
is a expert in ancient Hebrew literature and language and
these things. Just if nothing else. Hey, bro, I got
this excerpt from this book. The language is a little off.
Can you just kind of see what you can make

(01:04:31):
of it and see what they come Don't tell them
that it's from some manuscript, don't tell them it's possibly alchemical,
tell them whatever. Tell them it's a fraction of a
piece of parchment, and just curious if this like looks
like it might be anything inside your wheelhouse, just to
see what comes up. And while you're at it, go
to somebody who's an expert in ancient Greek, an expert
in the Roman vulgate and the Roman proper, and like

(01:04:53):
do it across the entire Mediterranean, just to see what
will come up.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Well, and that's something that you know. This is why
a lot of people don't by that the AI initiative
part of the hypothesis is because that was really the
only sentence from what I was able to find, That
was the only sentence that even made somewhat sense. All
the other sentences didn't make sense. They weren't in any
kind of correct order, you know, and it was almost

(01:05:17):
kind of like you had to scramble them in order
to try and make sense of any kind of sentence
or whatever. But at least the first sentence is curious enough.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
I mean, that's fair.

Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
And yes, AI gets a lot of things wrong, a lot,
but it depends on what you're using it for. If
you're using it for pattern detection, it does that very well.
If you're using it for a search for something, I mean, hell,
if you go into any AI and type in who
is Brandon Herrera, it'll come up and show you that
he's like a thirteen time Purple Heart recipient. He's a
Kernel and Special Forces and a Medal of Honor and

(01:05:49):
all these things. He's a YouTuber who shoots guns. But
his friends made such a running joke on the Internet
that enough people put it into their search bars, and
now AI accepts that that's a truth. Because AI isn't
doing the research into it. They're looking at search results
that other people have done, and they're giving you an answer.
It's not necessarily a true answer, but the pattern detection

(01:06:11):
and and things like this, YO the AI is excellent
at doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Yeah, AI is still in its infant stage, I believe,
and so I think it's only going to get a
little bit better or a lot better really, just as
far as it's able to pull information out. And like
you said, like just because a million people probably talked
about him being a thirteen time fucking Purple Heart winner
or whatever, it's like, you know, the the AI language

(01:06:37):
models saw all that information probably one hundred or a
thousand times, and it's like, all right, well, this is
the most commonly accepted, you know, version of the story,
So this must be the truth. And that's how it
determines what's true and what's not.

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
I think exactly. But that's the thing. AI isn't going
off of what's true.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
It's going off of just out of a million results
search results on this topic, this is the one that
was most likely searched for.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
And that's it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):
And like even Brandon Herrera has come out and said,
like he's not even trying to do the soul stolen
Bower thing. He hates it, but his buddies have it's
a running joke that they've just perpetuated for so long
that now the Internet lore says that it's so, even
though he fucking hates it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
But like that's the point.

Speaker 4 (01:07:18):
AI can be manipulated just by enough search engine inputs.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Which is interesting though, whenever you try and figure out
how AI is able to determine what is true, and
you know, it almost seems like it determines what is
true based upon what is most commonly accepted and and
that's and it's calling it truth. And is that not
what we do as humans, Like we call truth as

(01:07:43):
to like what is most commonly accepted, right most of
the time, all throughout human history. I think that we've
kind of like done that in some kind of sense, right,
and in like overtime. I mean, there used to be
people that firmly believe that the Earth was flat. No,
I don't care how fucking far back you got to go,
but there was most people during a time period that
absolutely believed that the Earth was flat. And you were

(01:08:05):
absolutely fucking crazy if you thought that it was anything
other than that, right, And that's what was commonly accepted
as truth. And then you know, as time moves on,
people started to discover maybe it was round, maybe it's
a hologram or whatever. People think nowadays it's like, and
so I think that truth is always I'm not going
to say always something that is just agreed upon, but

(01:08:28):
I think. But but what I do think is that
within the human mind, that's kind of what where we
lean to as well, Like what's most commonly accepted. Most
people will say that if something is commonly accepted, it
may as well be truth. Right, Yeah, I see we're
going with this is seventy eight percent of people who

(01:08:49):
got the first COVID shot.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
Yeah, but they didn't accept that it was truth, that
it was safe. Right.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
A lot of them did it because they were coerced
into it or given bad information. Right, they were given
falseness that was being portrayed as truth.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
So there is subjective truth and there is just the
facts of it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:09:07):
There is objective truth and subjective truth. A great example
of this would be to your point, like the ancients,
they didn't know what oxygen was. They had no idea
what oxygen was. They knew that you needed air in
order to breathe to live, but they didn't know that
if the oxygen levels are low enough, you could still
suffocate and die. They didn't know if you go into

(01:09:27):
a cave that's full of natural gas that at that
time had no odor. I don't know why I can
inhale with my lungs, but I'm still about to pass
out and die. They didn't understand that, Yes, the air
is around you, but air is made up of a
different of a bunch of different gaseous molecules, and you
need oxygen to survive. So there's objective truth and subjective truth.

(01:09:49):
There's things that we think we have an understanding on,
and there's things that are absolutely true, whether you have
an understanding of them or not.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Yeah, but even if you don't have the truth, you
can usually still take a theory that can apply it
and still get some kind of truth. For example, like
I don't know the theory of gravity, right, Like you
can still take mathematical equations and just use certain variables.

(01:10:18):
And you know those variables, we don't know exactly what
they are, but the variable fits inside of that mathematical
equation and bang, you got gravity. Right. Gravity is not
something that is figured out. That's still why it's called
a theory. Right now, I'm not here to say that
gravity doesn't exist. I'm just saying that there are mathematical
formulas with certain variables of which we don't know what
the fuck the variables are. But yet the equation still

(01:10:41):
makes sense.

Speaker 4 (01:10:43):
I'm with you, So we base our knowledge. I'm not
gonna say our truth. We say we base our knowledge
off of educated assertions. Right, And what I mean by
that is, Okay, two plus two equals four.

Speaker 3 (01:10:57):
This is a truth. This is a fact.

Speaker 4 (01:10:59):
This is not subject to interpretation. This is not subject
to change. It doesn't matter if you do or don't
believe in the power of math. It is irrelevant. Two
plus two will always equal four. Right, that is a
objective truth. Now do you have that same level and
that you could say that's faith that two plus two
equals four if we want to really put a term

(01:11:21):
to it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
But that's not exactly true. Right, it's a guarantee.

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
Do you have a guarantee that you will get in
your car and not get in a wreck? No, Now
you have a belief, you have a faith that you'll
get not getting a wreck. Right, And there's enough but
educated assertion that you are a good enough driver. And
let's say you're driving on a road with no cars
on it, it's one in the morning. Whatever, there's enough

(01:11:47):
of an assertion of facts or what you believe to
be facts, that you're gonna be fine when you get
in your car.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
And the stats will back you up as far as
your safety.

Speaker 4 (01:11:55):
But there's always a percentage that that is an untrue statement. Right,
And you living with a roommate, do you have a
two plus two equals four level of truth that that
roommate will not wake up in the middle of the night.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
And stab you to death in your sleep.

Speaker 4 (01:12:09):
You can't have that, you cannot, right, That's an impossibility. Now,
you can have enough of an educated assertion and know
this person well whatever all the stuff to say that
there is a almost zero percent chance that that's gonna happen,
and I trust this person enough to not do that.
But that is never going to be enough of a
fact of a two plus two equals four kind of conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
Right, Right, And then of course you can take it
even farther, you know, as far as like the you're
gonna get people that I understand the argument as to
why two plus two isn't absolutely a fact that it
equals for. And I'm not saying that it's a correct argument.
I'm just saying I understand where they're coming from. Just
that form of thinking. So like, for example, like twos, fours, one, zeros,

(01:12:53):
they're all just made up human numbers, right. It's it's
a symbol to represent a certain amount, right, And who's
to say that we came up with the right word
to be able to depict what two equals just by
showing a symbol.

Speaker 4 (01:13:08):
And so you get real fucking weird at that point.
I have a vape in my hand. I have of
v ape in this hand. Now if I put both
of them in this hand, I have how many vapes
in this hand? Like, it's not the philosophical thing of
like we're putting numbers in letters.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
And no, this is two, and that is one.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
We have one and one right, right, It's almost like
what did they say that? Like the number of the
beasts is six hundred and sixty and six and some
people interpret that as six sixty six, Right, It's like, yeah,
that's where it gets a little paradoxical a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:13:41):
Yeah, it's actually like six one six or something. It's
been a while since I dove in on that one personally,
but yeah, it's they they're looking at it like you're saying,
they're trying to like overanalyze it to the point where
it's like, all right, dude, you are missing the forest
for the tree.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
But it is fun to look at it philosophically like that.
Those is my point.

Speaker 4 (01:14:02):
It makes me want to throw things. I'm gonna be honest,
not you, but that. We've had people that we've talked
to that try to break everything down to it's philosophical thing,
and it's like, bro, can we even agree on the
very basic foundations of existence? And you'll ask them a question.
They'll be like, well, do you even understand the question
you just asked? It's like, well, then, fucking thanks for

(01:14:22):
coming on, bro, I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
To be fair, we think we know what existence is.
You know what I mean, we don't know. It's not
a fucking certified truth. I mean, like a one plus
one equals too.

Speaker 4 (01:14:33):
You'll get somebody that is so combative and so confrontational
that it's like, okay, bro, let's just start from some
sort of level playing field. Can we agree that pedophiles
need to be killed? Well, of course, of course, okay, okay.
Can we agree one plus one equals two? Well, do
you even know what one is?

Speaker 3 (01:14:47):
The fuck? Okay? Bro like shit.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
To be fair, I think that there's always room for
a devil's advocate.

Speaker 4 (01:14:54):
I get that, but man, these people are, uh, they're
they're what's it called not combative.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
Just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Speaker 4 (01:15:04):
They go against the grain, just to be the one
that's going against the grain. And it's like, dude, you realize,
like no one even asked for that on this one.
Some cases ask for it. This isn't even one that
asked for it, Like whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
I've grown to appreciate perspectives like that, actually, But either way, so, uh,
getting back to it, then there's the whole idea of
the hoax theory, which there's really not much to the
idea of a hoax, but for the people that say it,
I'm gonna tiple your fancy a little bit. So some
say that the book is a hoax, but consider who
in the fourteen hundreds would waste years of their life

(01:15:37):
illustrating hundreds of detailed pages of nonsense on expensive vellum,
which I believe was a certain type of parchment with
no guarantees of profit. The consistency of the language rules
out random scribbles, the scientific precision of the diagrams rules
out pure fantasy. If this is a hoax, it's the
most elaborate one in history, But more likely it's something

(01:16:00):
else entirely, So there's not really much of a basis
to say it's a hoax. And this is the problem
everybody that is so quick to pull the hoax trigger
every single time regarding anything. It's like, man, you just
think that everything's faking gay. You know what I'm saying.
I get calling a lot of shit faking gay. Don't
get me wrong, I'm always the one with that, But

(01:16:22):
like to look at something as intricate as this, I mean,
hundreds of pages. That's not to say that every single
book ever written is some kind of you know, eloquent
masterpiece that needs you know, fucking Einstein to break down.
I'm not saying that, But for this time, in this age,

(01:16:42):
with these people, in this language, in this level of
damn near perfection, if we're able to ever crack the
code of what it actually says, I mean, even if
it's even if it's something that was meant to be
cracked by an initiated person, I mean, the level do
you'd have to go through to create a fucking whole

(01:17:03):
new alphabet like, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:17:07):
Think about it this way.

Speaker 4 (01:17:08):
Tolkien invented an entire new language, Elvish, that's right. And
he basically built the entire story and world of the
Lord of the Rings and the Hob and all of
that to give his new language a place to exist.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
That's essentially what that was. Okay. The dude was a expert.

Speaker 4 (01:17:26):
In linguist things. He was a language expert by trade.
Right for somebody to come up with an entire working
language on a vellum which I just looked it up.
I knew it was some type of parchment, but I
knew there was something specific about it. It's extremely thin
calf skin, so it's not just regular parchment that you

(01:17:46):
would have or for any old reason.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
This shit was expensive to me.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
I imagine you did it because maybe it lasted longer, right, right.

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
Well, I mean at the time, paper wasn't exactly like
as much of a thing that you're thinking of. They
didn't they didn't have a process of making it as efficiently.
So yeah, parchment's more of a like sealed document thing.
My knighthood as a matter of fact, is on parchment, right,
And it's like really thin leather vellum is even finer

(01:18:15):
and thinner. It's the think of it as the conversation
between paper and stationary. Okay, okay, that would be parchment
to vellum. So it's not just getting your hands on
parchment is expensive enough. Getting your hands on vellum in
the fucking fourteen hundreds, you had to have royalty status
or at least nobility status money just to afford the

(01:18:36):
paper and the ink and the colorings to write this
shit down, just to make the manuscript. So for you
to do all of that and just doodle some random
letters and figures and some flowers and just whatever, because
it's just whimsical. That's I'm not saying that's impossible. Sure,
there may have been just some rich dude that did

(01:18:56):
that just for the fuck of it because he loves
squandering some wealth.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
Right, that's a weird way to squander wealth.

Speaker 4 (01:19:03):
Typically they would just host a giant banquet and flaunt
their shit like a normal royal you would. You wouldn't
do it just to write a book with no predecessor,
no uh, separate additions or secondary volumes or anything like that.
You did this just to do it, and you, in
the process create your own language and sentence structure and
all of that.

Speaker 3 (01:19:22):
It just it doesn't make much sense to me.

Speaker 4 (01:19:25):
I'm saying there, Yes, there is a greater than zero
percent chance of it, but it's not in any way,
shape or form probable that this is a hoax or
a fake.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
Wasn't it from a Game of Thrones that doth Racky
was a made up language for that show and for
that book, right yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:19:41):
Yeah, but I don't know if it was a written language. Right,
So there's made up spoken language. Pig Latin is a
made up spoken language, but we don't have like a
two thousand year old document that's written out pig Latin,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
So there's there's differences to some of these.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
Things, uk fe ooh yeah that catch you fuck hey?

Speaker 3 (01:20:02):
But no, but that's that's my point.

Speaker 4 (01:20:04):
There's there's made up, you know, verbal languages for like
High Valerian, you know, and in Game of Thrones too.

Speaker 3 (01:20:11):
These are made up spoken languages.

Speaker 4 (01:20:14):
But to my knowledge, there's no documents of Old Valierian
and doth Racki written down somewhere to be an actual
functioning language like.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
That, right, Right, So the idea of a hoax, sorry
you lose, Okay, in hold water. Here then, of course
there's the esoteric theories. Another interpretation is that the Voyage
is a grimoire, a hermetic text written in code so
that that only adepts could unlock its wisdom. The strange plants,

(01:20:43):
the stars, the women may be allegories for alchemical transformation
and spiritual rebirth. And if this is true, decoding it
is not about linguistics at all, It's about nosis. Let's
go the book could be an initiation tool, meant to
awaken understanding in the initiat rather than convey information plainly.
I'm actually more inclined to believe something like that, because

(01:21:06):
there were a lot of mystery schools, you know what
I'm saying, Like, there were a lot of initiatory things,
especially going on in those times.

Speaker 3 (01:21:13):
Not in the Middle Ages. It's not so much there
were some, yes, not as much.

Speaker 4 (01:21:16):
As there was in the ancient Greek mystery cults and
even in the ancient Roman times, ancient Egypt, absolutely all
around the Mediterranean, in the earlier BC era for sure,
early AD era for sure. By the time the Middle
Ages came around, it was more of people trying to
find the books written by those ancient mystery cults and

(01:21:37):
schools and stuff. There wasn't many schools that were still
operating with that type of thing. You could say early
form of freemasonry, you could say like and there were some.

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
Like I'm saying, it was very select small.

Speaker 4 (01:21:50):
Groups that were operating in Europe in the Middle Ages
that could be considered mystery or occult schools.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
It was more like the one.

Speaker 4 (01:21:58):
Polymath that had dedicated his life to studying all of
these ancient mystery cults and religions and schools and stuff
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
So I just pulled up Ancient Origins dot net and
these are the top ten secret societies of the Middle Ages.
So of course you got your Knight's templar for sure,
for sure, and you also have the Assassins, which were
Islam's blades in the shadows.

Speaker 3 (01:22:21):
Never heard of the Hasha sens. You ever played Assassin's Creed?

Speaker 2 (01:22:25):
Oh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:22:27):
But to that point, right, the Assassins weren't going off
of ancient occult practices. They well, I guess, in some
way for their meditation to get hyped up to perform
a kill. It was a secret society, yes, but they
weren't delving into like alchemical and extra or cult type
of things. They were more like brainwashing their subjects so
they could be ready for an assassination, right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
Right, Different flavors for everybody. Another one is the Priori
of Scion, the Priory of Pion, Yeah right. It's often
linked to medieval secret societies through let and lore, although
its historical existence is debated. According to some accounts, it
was founded in ten ninety nine in Jerusalem during the
First Crusade, with the purpose of protecting and preserving the

(01:23:09):
bloodline of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene. The society is
said to have said to have had illustrious grand masters,
including figures such as Leonardo da Vinci and Isaac Newton. Oh,
we might have to do a fucking show on that one.
That seems interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:23:23):
We can.

Speaker 4 (01:23:23):
But I've looked into the Priory of Sion before, and
like it's saying, there is very very very weak historical
evidence to say that it ever exists. It did come
up in a few stories like legendary kind of like
King Arthur.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
I mean, it isn't that The idea behind a secret
society is that you leave no remnants behind that even
would show your existence.

Speaker 3 (01:23:44):
No not at all.

Speaker 4 (01:23:45):
All of the ancient Greek schools, Like we know that
there were secret societies and cults to certain deities. What
they were teaching was super secret, but their existence was understood.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
Well, even mystery school type shit, you know what I'm saying,
Like a lot of these people if they were coming
out then, and and I've I've taken a different stance
on secret societies and mystery schools as of late, just
because if you think about it, like a lot of
the shit that I talk about, like the a lot
of the esoteric shit that I'm into, even nowadays, I

(01:24:16):
get scolded, looks like scolded with looks of certain people,
right like that's crazy, that's not what that means, and
that's not what you're you're meant to believe. And you well,
you don't want to look into that, like that's of
the devil, you know what I'm saying. And so I
think that especially back in these times, I mean, think
about the people. If you would come out and start
talking about any of this esoteric shit, You're gonna get scolded,

(01:24:38):
you might get fucking hung, you might get put on
a cross, right, and so you would want to keep
it underground with the mystery schools and the secret societies.

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
Not necessarily though, the Witches. But that wasn't a secret society.
That was ah, I don't even call it a religion.
That was like a belief system that they have, right.
That wasn't like a secret mystery school. The Freemasons, for instance,
are a secret society, and you could even make the
argument for a mystery school.

Speaker 3 (01:25:04):
They weren't secret about them being Masons.

Speaker 4 (01:25:06):
They were loud and proud about them being Freemasons. Now
what they did in their meetings was super secretive, but
they wanted everyone to know I'm a Freemason, or I'm
a member of the Illuminati, or whatever the case. It
wasn't like, oh, no, I don't know, what's I've never heard?
You said Illuminati? What is that I've never heard?

Speaker 2 (01:25:25):
Most people aren't loud and proud about being in the
Illuminati up until ten years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:25:31):
No, No, in the Middle Ages or they were founded
technically speaking in the seventeen seventies, But in reality, the
Illuminati goes back further than that. And if you were
a member of that, you were proud to be a
member of that. You wore the fucking colors you wore
the pins, you wore the shit, but you didn't talk
about what y'all did at your meetings.

Speaker 3 (01:25:48):
That's what I'm saying. Mystery schools.

Speaker 4 (01:25:50):
It was never John d him being a educated man
in these mystery schools, he wasn't like secretive about Oh well,
you don't know what I'm talking about. He was loud
and proud. Yes, I'm a polymath. You're welcome that I
showed up to your court, King Rudolph, Like, yeah, it
was a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
And maybe I think that there would probably be a
lot of people that would be a little bit more
secretive about it and of.

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
What they do, yes, but not secret that they were members.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
I'm just saying, like, dude, you even hear about and
I've heard personal stories of people, you know their dad
or their grandfather were Freemasons, but they never talked about it.
They never flaunted it. It was not something that you
ever brought up. It was extremely secretive. And even the
fact that you knew that they were Freemasons might have
been too much information. If you just listen to other people,

(01:26:35):
I'm telling you, if you listen to other people, you
hear them talk about, you know, their elder statesman, family members,
they're not like out in the open, loud and proud
about it. Most of them aren't.

Speaker 4 (01:26:47):
Oh no, I know dudes that are fourth and fifth
generation Freemasons, and like, yeah they are. Even their great
grandfather was super proud of being a Mason. But of
course you never talked about what they did. That's what
they mean by they didn't talk about it. You don't
share that secret with your family. You don't share with anybody,
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
And so anyway, so yeah, you have the what was
that one called again the priory of Again.

Speaker 3 (01:27:10):
We could look into it one day.

Speaker 4 (01:27:11):
I tried a while back, and it's there's legends and
myths associated with them, very very few historical evidence to
say that they ever like truly existed, but we could
look into it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
The Rosicrucians obviously, Uh sure, dude, I find of of
all like secret societies, I find the Rosicusians the most interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:27:33):
Christian esotericism bro the Order of the Rosy Cross as
they were one.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
It is fucking awesome. If you ever really look into
like a lot of the symbolism and the understanding of
the ros Holy shit, dude, it is jam fact like
if you're into the esoteric shit. Rosicrucians fucking tickles that
pickle to that point.

Speaker 4 (01:27:51):
Also, if you were a member of the Rosicrucians, you
weren't like shy about that. You were you never talked
about what you learned, but you also were like super
proud to be a member of this order for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
Then of course you have the Illuminati. For Bavarian Illuminati
by Isaac Wisup, it says that it only goes well,
it says the Bavarian Illuminati goes back to seventeen seventy six,
so this would have been after said period.

Speaker 4 (01:28:17):
That's what I'm saying that the true Illuminati. He didn't
just like come up with this on his own. The
story goes that he founded the Illuminati to be a
counterbalance to the Freemasons because he tried to be.

Speaker 3 (01:28:28):
One and they wouldn't allow him admitted.

Speaker 4 (01:28:29):
So he's like, well, fine, I'm going to start my
own secret society. But the seventeen hundreds in the Middle Ages,
the knowledge and the secrets that he had gained pre
date seventeen seventy six by a few centuries. But if
we're going to get technical on the founding of the group,
publicly known and loud and proud about.

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
Yeah, that was seventeen seventy six.

Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
Interesting that it was that year though, right.

Speaker 3 (01:28:50):
Very much so. But again, this is Bavaria. This was
in Europe. The Illumini didn't make their drump to America
until much later.

Speaker 2 (01:28:57):
Right right next, you have the Cathars. Then you have
the Knights hospitaller Brothers in Christ.

Speaker 4 (01:29:06):
I don't necessarily think that's a secret society, but okay,
they were. I guess technically they were doing like healing.
They were. That's where we get the term hospital from
is from the Knight's hospitality. They were like medics and
as well as warrior monks during the crusades and stuff.
Even whenever the big time came and the Knights Temple
were being burned at the stake. In all these things,

(01:29:27):
the Nice Hospital or the Nice Hospital or however you
call it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
They never got persecuted.

Speaker 4 (01:29:32):
They have always been very openly and welcomely accepted by
the royal class forever.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
So, I mean their Order of Saint John founded in Jerusalem.

Speaker 3 (01:29:42):
Yeah, same as the Knights Templar.

Speaker 4 (01:29:43):
I mean that's the Order of the Temple of Jerusalem.
And they were just there to protect and do crusade things.
But the difference is the Knights Hospitalery did not come
international bankers like the Knights Templar did, so they didn't
piss off a lot of kings like they did. They
were just here to do the warrior monk in the
hospital and doctor shit.

Speaker 3 (01:30:01):
But yeah, all right, that's a group.

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
The Beguins, uh where it was a life of poverty.
The Beguins were a lay Christian movement of women that
began in the twelfth century in the Low Countries. Unlike
traditional nuns, big wins did not take formal vowels or
live in covenants or convents. Rather, instead they lived in
semi monastic communities, dedicating themselves to a life of piety,

(01:30:27):
charity and work.

Speaker 4 (01:30:29):
See I don't know, so predecessor to nuns. Again, I
wouldn't call that a secret society or a mystery school necessarily.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
Well, I mean then you had the lawlers lawlards rather
from an English theologian John Wycliffe, then you have the
vemic courts judgment in secret. So the vemic courts or
femi were a secret tribunal system that emerged in Westphalia,
Germany during the thirteenth century. Originally established to maintain law

(01:30:59):
and order in a region with weak central authority, these
courts operated clandestinely, often holding trials in secret locations and
at night. That's secret society shit right there. They were
known as.

Speaker 4 (01:31:10):
This is like a secret police force. Basically, they didn't
go to the government for justice. If something happened and
this dude needed to be hung, they would just go
in the middle of the night and go hang the dude.
They held try like kangaroo courts. That's not there society.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
Well, they were known as free judges and they were
bound by strict oaths of secrecy. Anyway, Look, I mean
there's people have their own interpretations of what a secret
society actually is. I'm not going to argue with anybody
on that. I'm just I'm pointing out that could this
have been secret society? Shit?

Speaker 3 (01:31:38):
I mean secret society.

Speaker 4 (01:31:39):
Technically the Moose Lodge or the Benevolent Order of the Elk, right,
these are also secret societies. Are they dealing in occult
and mystery school things? Not so much, but secret societies
by definition. If we're talking about middle age occult mystery schools,
there really wasn't much that was operating. You'd have the Rosicrucians.
You could argue the Assassins. You could argue in some

(01:32:02):
way the Knight's Templar. You could argue the Freemasons.

Speaker 3 (01:32:05):
But that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:32:05):
There was a very small handful in Europe at this time.
A lot of the mystery schools and occult knowledge and
that kind of stuff by and large goes back to
ancient Rome and Greece and the Mediterranean as a whole
kind of thing, right.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
Right, I just pulled up Middle Ages secret societies, so
that might not have even been anything close to what
we're talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:32:24):
That was right, right, I mean, this book was written
at that time, but that's what I'm saying. The way
it's written would indicate that it got its notes from
a much much older source.

Speaker 2 (01:32:37):
Yeah, older, or just traversing time altogether, exactly exactly. And
speaking of that, you have your alien theories. So some
go further and suggest that the manuscript is alien in origin,
the plants are alien flora, the skies are another planet,
and the women in tubes are genetic experiments. If that's
the case, then the Voyage Manuscript maybe the first extraterrestrial

(01:32:58):
codex evidence that we are not alone in that someone
left us a manual of their science. Okay, that's interesting,
So we're gonna dive into a lot of these. This
is kind of just a precursor. Could it have been
a ritual object? What if the manuscript isn't meant to
be solved, its power may lie in remaining undeciphered. In

(01:33:19):
this sense, the Voyage is not just a book, but
a living ritual, a sigil designed to fascinate, confuse, and
perpetuate mystery. The endless attempts to solve it. The energy
poured into its mystery may be the ritual itself. By
existing as an eternal puzzle, it creates a field of
belief and power. Oh it's an interesting way of looking
at it. Hmm okay, wow, almost like a talisman.

Speaker 4 (01:33:42):
Yeah yeah, Or I mean, like I said earlier, like
a grimoire. Right, So like maybe this is like I'm
using this term colloquially. I don't like for anybody listening
that would get offended by this. Calm down a book
of spells or incantations or something like that, or like
you said, possibly even the book itself is a talis
Like who knows?

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
Yeah, you could look at it that way, that like,
all the magic is already encoded, and you know, depending
on what mantle you set this book on under the
perfect night sky of stars and you know, whatever could
be something like that, you know, sure, And it says
that there are modern parallels. So today the book is
at Yale. Why hasn't modern ai cracked it? Why hasn't

(01:34:24):
science solved it? Or did they and the results were
too explosive to release? That's another interesting concept. Just as
the Vatican locks away forbidden books and governments conceal UFO files,
the Voyage represents a pattern knowledge that is withheld. Maybe
the book itself is proof that humanity is not meant
to know everything, or that those in power decide what
we are allowed and not allowed to know, which brings

(01:34:48):
us to another website that I wanted to pull up here.
This is from Grunge. Actually, I always find grunge to
be pretty sweet, but it's going to get into pretty
heavy detail here, so buckle up for this one, baby.

Speaker 3 (01:35:03):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:35:07):
All right. The Crazy True Story of the Mysterious Voyage
Manuscript by grunge dot Com one of our favorite websites.

Speaker 3 (01:35:15):
So uh.

Speaker 2 (01:35:16):
It starts one of the most baffling puzzles in history
is stored at the bay a Key Library at Yale University.
Is it is a codex that with uh or, while
centuries old, doesn't have the beauty of the Book of
Kels nor the size of the Codex Gigas, the so
called Devil's Bible. The Devil's Bible is the Codex Gigas.
I need to look into that.

Speaker 3 (01:35:38):
It's yeah, that's why is it called the Deli's Bible.

Speaker 4 (01:35:42):
Well, and it's been a while since I dove into it,
but there is one point in time where I did
a pretty decent amount of research into it. Uh, If
I'm not mistaken, it is the earliest depiction that we
have of Satan with horns and a tale and things
like that. It was apparently written by I forget which
type of member of the clergy, if it was a

(01:36:02):
nun or a priest or a monk or whatever. That
was kind of seen like he was going insane. And yeah,
that's the picture. So that's the earliest the picture that
we have of Satan with the horns and the pitchfork
and the tale and all that.

Speaker 3 (01:36:15):
This is the earliest picture that we have in human
history of him being depicted in such a.

Speaker 2 (01:36:20):
Yeah fucking book too.

Speaker 3 (01:36:22):
Yeah, oh Todex.

Speaker 4 (01:36:23):
Gigas, And there's there's some writings in here about what
could be considered early demonology, you know, early forms of
like divination in dark magic but not dark is in
like kind of of the spooky like no, no, no,
like truly talking to the dark lord kind of things.

Speaker 3 (01:36:42):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
Oh, they didn't find it until the thirteenth century though.

Speaker 3 (01:36:47):
Yeah, that would be twelve hundred AD.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):

Speaker 3 (01:36:52):
I mean, that's that's when it was.

Speaker 4 (01:36:54):
Like if I'm not I forget when it was written,
but I mean it's it's still medieval ages for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:36:59):
Right, No, it's still cool. I'm not saying. I'm not
trying to take anything away from that. I was just
kind of.

Speaker 4 (01:37:05):
Some say that the person who was writing it was
possessed by a demon and that's what led him to
write it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:10):
Oh interesting anyway, So it's not that, But what it
lacks in beauty and bigness it makes up for in bizarreness.
That it possesses a script that has confounded history's best
crypt analysts and has such a perplexing imagery that Some
contend that only aliens could have crafted it. The most
rudimentary search on Google scholar reveals that countless academics have

(01:37:33):
invested uncounted hours trying to solve it. Still, the codex
defies all logic, reason, and any type of decoding nutcracker
tasked upon it. Does it hold the secrets of the universe?
Or is it history's greatest hoax? This is the famous
Voynage Manuscript, which has been dubbed by many scholars, institutions,
and publications, including the Smithsonian Magazine the world's most mysterious manuscript.

(01:37:56):
While its origin may go back centuries, its story really
begins in nineteen twelve. So here we go. Wilfred M. Voinich,
according to writers Jerry Kennedy and Rob Churchill in their
book called The Voyage Manuscript, was a Polish nationalist who
had been imprisoned for his activities against the Russian Empire
in the late nineteenth century. After his release, he turned

(01:38:17):
to book collecting and became a prominent antiquarian book dealer.
It was this capacity that brought him to Villa Mondragone,
near Rome in nineteen twelve. According to John H. Tiltman,
writing a paper on the subject. The Jesuits had taken
over the property some decades prior, and Voinage was nosing

(01:38:38):
about a for rare fines. Voinage encountered something special when
he found a manuscript buried in the chest in ahest
among other codises. He wrote, as quoted by Kennedy and Churchill,
it was such an ugly duckling compared with the others,
that my interest was aroused at once. Okay, the codex

(01:38:58):
was unassuming. According to to the Bainicky Library, it measures
about eight point eight inches by six point two inches
and his two hundred and forty pages in length. Researchers
showed that the codex was once in the possession of
Holy Roman Emperor Rudolph the Second, who brought it or
who bought it for six hundred gold ducots? Because can

(01:39:18):
you look up what that would be worth right now?

Speaker 3 (01:39:22):
That for I'm just going off it here.

Speaker 4 (01:39:24):
That's gonna be a fuck ton just before I even
search any further. Just let's let's have that out. But yeah,
I got you what was the year? One more time?

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
That was doesn't say what year he bought it, just
in the year.

Speaker 3 (01:39:40):
Of six hundred, six hundred gold ducots.

Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
Right, ducots, Yeah, duc ats.

Speaker 3 (01:39:47):
Got you today's money, all right?

Speaker 4 (01:39:49):
So, oh God, convert ducot coin to US dollar.

Speaker 3 (01:39:54):
Oh Lord, give me a second, it's yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:57):
So he bought it for six hundred gold ducots because
he believed that it had been written by scientist Roger Bacon. However,
Bacon lived in the twelfth century, and according to the
New Yorker, radiocarbon dating places the manuscript in the early
fifteenth century. The codex disappeared in sixteen seventy, only to
be discovered by Voyage nearly two and a half centuries later.
So he bought it because this scientist Roger Bacon. He

(01:40:20):
believed that that guy wrote it. But according to carbon dating,
which do what you want with carbon dating, like it's
not a perfected science by any means, they believe that
it was. It couldn't have been written during that time.
Then there's a void Chinese one oh one. We're trying
to understand the language here. The Voyage manuscript contains illustrations, charts,

(01:40:45):
and lots of text. The one commonality of all of it,
as analyzed by the Paris Review, is that it is
utterly incomprehensible, both in text and images.

Speaker 3 (01:40:58):
Incomprehensible. I mean that's not.

Speaker 2 (01:41:00):
Unfair, utterly incomprehensible. The illustrations are either implausible or bizarre,
filled with non existent plants and astrological charts. The text
itself is made out of neat orderly lines that look
like writing, but no want. But no scholar has been
able to crack the script, which is usually referred to
as voiina cheese. According to the Verge, scholars have identified

(01:41:22):
twenty five to thirty individual characters and a loopy writing
which seems to flow from left to right.

Speaker 3 (01:41:29):
All right, real quick.

Speaker 4 (01:41:30):
So it's very difficult to find the worth of a
gold duke it or ducket or whatever the hell you
pronounce this as in today's currency, because at that point
we're talking more about the troy ounce weight of the
gold rather than what it was financially worth at the time.
But here's what I found here. In the fifteen hundreds,
which is when Rudolph was doing his thing correct, Yeah,

(01:41:53):
six hundred gold dukuts was an immense fortune, equivalent to
a lifetime earnings of many commoners, or the price of
luxury assets like a large house or a barrel of
rare books. Its value is difficult to translate in my
our terms because of the vast difference in purchasing power
and the economies of the time.

Speaker 3 (01:42:09):
But let me give you a couple of examples here.

Speaker 4 (01:42:12):
Leonardo da Vinci, for example, had about six hundred ducats
in his bank in fourteen ninety nine, and a wealthy
Venetian could live comfortably for a year on somewhere between
fifty and twenty ducats.

Speaker 2 (01:42:25):
Interesting, I just plugged it into AI too, and it
said six hundred ducats could represent the equivalent of hundreds
of thousands to several million in USD and purchasing power,
depending on the context.

Speaker 4 (01:42:38):
So I mean, like it said, a wealthy Venetian Venis
wasn't like a backwater swamp. If you were gonna be
with somebody, a wealthy person in Venice, you had to
have some money. And if you're telling me, a wealthy
Venetian could live very comfortably between fifty and twenty ducats
ducts whatever, and your boy bought this book for six
hundred of them. Yeah, this book was worth we could

(01:43:00):
literally say, a small fortune.

Speaker 2 (01:43:02):
Yeah, it says the the Venetian gold duke it the
most famous kind minted from the late twelve hundreds onward. Wait,
about three and a half grams of nearly pure gold
twenty four carrots ninety nine point five percent pure. That
means that six hundred duke its equals twenty one hundred
grams of pure gold. And as of today, gold trades
around seventy to seventy five dollars per gram. So at

(01:43:25):
seventy two dollars per gram, if you're just gonna, you know,
average it out at twenty one hundred grams, would be
one hundred and fifty one thousand dollars. But that's just
that's that's just the bullion value.

Speaker 4 (01:43:37):
And that's our as compared to our bullion value today.
Gold had a different level of buying power during that
time than it does now.

Speaker 3 (01:43:45):

Speaker 4 (01:43:46):
It's very hard to translate that kind of thing, but
that's how I always say whenever I talk to you know,
older generations about yeah, I bought that house for seven
thousand dollars back in the day. It's like, all right,
I hear you, But just real quick, what again on
a gas cost?

Speaker 3 (01:44:01):
Like what did a coke cost out of a machine?

Speaker 4 (01:44:03):
Like give me something to compare it against where I
can realistically look at it. Right, If you're telling me
that twenty gold ducats was a year's earning for a
wealthy dude in a wealthy neighborhood and the king bought
this one book for six hundred that now you're giving
me something I can understand if a wealthy person in
a wealthy area.

Speaker 3 (01:44:21):
Let's put that to comparison here.

Speaker 4 (01:44:23):
This wasn't like Venice was a metropolis in the fifteenth
the Renaissance. Da Vinci lived there. Okay, like this is
this was not some backwater spot. This would be like saying, oh, yeah,
I live in LA during the Golden Age of Hollywood
kind of thing. Right, So whatever the going rate of
like a wealthy person, maybe not the wealthiest, not a king,

(01:44:44):
but a dude that is very well to do is
making it happen on a yearly basis in LA for
the price of about twenty ducats. This book was hold
on what's sixty divided by five? Here, this book was
thirty times twelve, give or take thirty times more expensive than.

Speaker 2 (01:45:03):
That sixty divided by twelve or sixty divited by five
is twelve. But what's six hundred divided by twenty six
hundred divided by twenty?

Speaker 3 (01:45:12):
Was that like forty? That's why I said, I thought
it was thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:45:16):
Something like that. I don't know. My math is as.

Speaker 4 (01:45:18):
I'm saying, this book is arguably like a lifetime's worth
of wealth.

Speaker 2 (01:45:24):
Like yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah. So anyhow, The reason
why there is no definitive agreement on how many characters
there is provided by me d Impero, which is the
author of the Voyage Manuscript and Elegant Enigma, who explains
that the characters sometimes blend too smoothly together to make
out coherent symbols. However, because of the limited number of symbols,

(01:45:46):
it seems that Voyna Cheese is more likely to be
an alphabet than a hieroglyphic script. The Paris Review points
out that the script seems to have the flow and
structure of a real language, as if ideas were being conveyed.
In other words, the characters and sentences don't appear to
be randomized or mere gibberish. So that's something I mean,

(01:46:07):
if you're just making some shit up, you know what
I mean, it's not going to give off that kind
of flavor exactly. It says that there are four parts,
and they're all weirdness. So people who have studied the
Voyage Manuscript have usually divided the codex into four parts.
They note that this is not based on any table
of contents, but what analyzers suppose what the contents are

(01:46:29):
being herbal, astrological, bowel, neological, which is having it's like
the study of baths and pharmacological. So other researchers, as
described by National Geographic divide the book into six sections,
adding in astronomical and recipe sections and substituting the bathing
section for biology. Okay, voidathing section. Yeah, because remember we

(01:46:54):
talked about like they're all like sitting in bathtubs and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:46:56):
Women in the tubs with the green liquid. Got you?
Got you? Gotcha?

Speaker 2 (01:47:00):
They call that not don't focus too much on the
bath it's more biological, which gotcha? Okay. Voinage himself, either
looking to scare up buyers for his rare manuscript or
diving into the mystery himself, said to The New York
Times this is his quote. I will prove to the
world that the black magic of the Middle Ages consisted
in discoveries far in advance of twentieth century science. Quite

(01:47:23):
a quote, however, Voyage was never able to sell it.
According to the Bainikey Library, the manuscript was given to
Yale University by H. P. Krause, who had bought it
from Voyinage's widow in nineteen sixty nine. Krause, like Voyage,
was unable to sell it. This was just as well,
since the manuscript has become available to all to puzzle

(01:47:44):
over its strange contents. So there are extinct plants question mark.
The herbology section, the longest section, which takes up half
the book, according to The New Yorker, is one is
what one might expect from a medieval text. There are
somewhat amateurish, doodle like illustrations of plants, as one might
find in a compendium. However, the plant seem to have

(01:48:06):
no correlation to known plants. If you look at the
digitized version at Yale University, you see things that are
vaguely familiar, such as flowers, roots, leaves, and a blue
thing that looks like a shower head.

Speaker 6 (01:48:19):
What.

Speaker 2 (01:48:21):
All of this is accompanied by the attractive, flowing and
undeciphered text, giving it an authoritative feel. So you see
right here, that's kind of what I was alluding to
as far as like the man eater plant kind of looks.

Speaker 3 (01:48:32):
Like it interesting okay?

Speaker 2 (01:48:35):
According to Dampiro, many have tried to figure out the
meaning of the Codex through this section, hoping to link
some real world plant to the text. To Dimpiro, plant
the plants appear to be algamations, with the flowers of
one of the plant and the roots of others, or
simply entirely alien. This has led to some debate, with

(01:48:57):
some botanists identifying a plant and other disagreeing with that identification.
So even the botanists can't get on on the same
page here. Wow, So is the Voyage Manuscript from Mexico interesting?
What it says? One example of how the herbal section
was used to try to gain some understanding of the
Voyage Manuscript was by researcher Hugh O'Neil in his nineteen

(01:49:21):
forty four study published in a Speculum. O'Neil asserted that
one drawing was clearly a sunflower and another a capsicum,
which were peppers. O'Neil argued that since both sunflowers and
peppers were New World plants, that the Voyage Manuscript must
have an origin in the Western Hemisphere. Jules Janek and

(01:49:43):
Arthur Tucker argue in the twenty eighteen book called Unraveling
the Voyage Codex that the manuscript must have originated from
meso America and would have been created by a meso American,
probably Aztech. They also identified a number of what they
purport to be American fauna in the document. Per University
states that Janet and Tucker believed that the manuscript, once translated,

(01:50:05):
would yield valuable information regarding Native American culture before European conquest.
As for void Chinese Voyna cheese, rather, they contend that
it is a synthetic language based on Mesoamerican languages. They
were still unable to translate it. However, this theory seems
to have gained little traction because presumably one person's capsicum

(01:50:27):
is another person's. Huh.

Speaker 4 (01:50:30):
Yeah, I was gonna say so. I'm just I'm gonna
look up. I didn't know that sunflowers were only a
New World plant. I thought that they were indigenous to
other parts of the world.

Speaker 3 (01:50:41):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 4 (01:50:42):
And then capsicum, that's that's not necessarily peppers.

Speaker 3 (01:50:47):
That's the stuff that makes you shit like crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:50:49):
Yeah, it just says capsicum. And then peppers in parentheses.
So I'm just assuming that, huh to.

Speaker 4 (01:51:00):
But look, are some flowers native to the Old World.
I'm this is new information to me.

Speaker 3 (01:51:06):
I don't know. No, some flowers are not native to
the Old World.

Speaker 4 (01:51:10):
They are native to North America and were first domesticated
by indigenous.

Speaker 3 (01:51:14):
Peoples there thousands of years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:51:16):
Spanish explorers brought the sunflower back to Europe in the
sixteenth century, after which they became widespread across the globe. Wow,
uh okay, who would have thought, Oh, what the hell capsicum.

Speaker 3 (01:51:29):
Plant looks like. I don't know, I've ever actually seen one.

Speaker 2 (01:51:31):
Well, it continues, it says, read your fortune voyage style.
Of course, there's astrological aspects to this, it says. The
voyage manuscript gets stranger after the herbal section when you
enter its astrological section. As the Paris Review describes, this
section contains what appears to be cosmological drawings and diagrams.
The manuscript contains a number of fold out astrological charts.

(01:51:54):
As The New Yorker points out, these diagrams seem to
be similar to zodiac based charts found in medieval texts. However,
these charges do not correspond to any known calendar. More
puzzling still, as reported by the Smithsonian, is the presence
of nude women referred to as nymphs, which is interesting.
So wouldn't necessarily be women go almost like a kind

(01:52:15):
of mermaid. Actually, well, usually called water nymphs that come
out of the water like mermaid style.

Speaker 3 (01:52:22):
No doubt, real quick.

Speaker 4 (01:52:24):
Also, capsicum, we might also call those bell peppers.

Speaker 2 (01:52:28):
Okay for the record, but I.

Speaker 4 (01:52:30):
Looked up as there because I'm trying to think here
if this being the case, like Asia has peppers that
are indigenous to them, right, so I'm thinking, is there
a difference between capsicum and Asian peppers? And there is
not a difference because capsicum is the scientific genus.

Speaker 3 (01:52:47):
For all chili and bell peppers.

Speaker 2 (01:52:50):
So capsicum is that the Latin word for pepper?

Speaker 3 (01:52:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:52:54):
Okay, so interesting enough, Okay, so yeah, so it's not
based on any known calendar as far as this astrological
looking calendar that they have in the voyage. So more
puzzling still is the presence of nude women referred to
as nymphs ander in indeterminate animals. As the digitized version

(01:53:18):
from the Benecke Library shows, there are charts with women
in a circle holding stars, with various figures in the
center vaguely resembling goats, lizards, and other people. But it's
in the eye of the beholder. All of these drawings
were accompanied by inexplicable voi cheni voina cheese. The imagery
is so perplexing that NASA even posted a call for

(01:53:39):
help to try to figure out if there's any scientific
meaning behind the charts. Inexplicable astrological charts lead naturally enough
to alien conspiracy theories. Let's go baby, So was the
voyage manuscript made by aliens? Probably my favorite part. So
if the voyage manuscript is unexplainable, then it surely must

(01:54:00):
be the diary of a marooned alien on a planet.
One such hypothesis was reported by The Independent, which took
a look at the outer fringe of voyage theory and
found a website called Ancient dashcode dot com proposing in
quotes because it contains a language that cannot be found
anywhere else on the planet, and given the fact that
the ancient manuscript depicts star charts that are unknown to us,

(01:54:24):
the voyinage manuscript could have been created by a being
not from Earth who during the fourteen hundreds crash landed
on Earth and created the manuscript documenting life on Earth.
Knowing that humans did not possess the necessary technology to
help the alien visitor return to his planet, it is
possible that the alien visitor decided to chronicle his remaining

(01:54:45):
life on our planet inside the manuscript. That's interesting, curious, okay.
A variation of this theme was put forth by jerome A.
Croth in his book called Aliens in Ma'am. He contends
that one of the astrological doodlings in the Code Codex
looks like the spiral of the Milky Way galaxy. The
author goes on goes through a variety of hypotheses before

(01:55:06):
offering in his quotes the reason it has eluded modern
cryptography search for a language to which it might be
linked is precisely because the manuscript has no human linguistic counterpart,
that is, a language unknown on this Earth. While growth
or Croth admits that the idea is far flung, it
seems that any hypothesis about the strange manuscript is as

(01:55:28):
good as any other.

Speaker 4 (01:55:30):
So I mean that makes sense that nobody has any
real clue behind it. There's tons of theories being proposed,
but there's not anything more or less credible than anything.

Speaker 2 (01:55:39):
Else, right, right, but it does say it does get weirder.
So if the Voyage Manuscript had been driving down the
death road of oddity, in the next section, it dives
off the cliff. The third part of the codex, the
Bounteological section, which is the science of bathing, contains drawing
after drawing of naked women the nymphs in organic type pods.

(01:56:00):
It's being doused with or soaking in fluids, usually green
from Salvador Dali esque pipes, and some of the drawings
fanciful animals appear, and in another a nymph a nymph
seems to be a mermaid. Again, the quality of the
drawing is rudimentary, and they are all surrounded by the
neat voyna cheese text, which one might explain uh the

(01:56:22):
or which which one which one might expect, explains the
whole thing. There we go, So all right, they all
got perky boobs too. You see how they're like all
pointing up and everything.

Speaker 4 (01:56:36):
So is this supposed to be uh, younger women or
is this just supposed to be somebody who was drawing
you know what he thought?

Speaker 3 (01:56:44):
Uh, the perfect one was supposed to look like, what
are we supposed to take is this?

Speaker 2 (01:56:48):
Hold on? Did they all kind of look pregnant?

Speaker 4 (01:56:53):
We should mention in medieval depictions most women had a
pot belly? Did that was a very common theme you
would see in a lot of medieval artwork.

Speaker 3 (01:57:03):
So not necessarily.

Speaker 2 (01:57:04):
Okay, well even still, I mean usually a pregnant belly
is accompanied by perky tits. Am I wrong?

Speaker 3 (01:57:13):
You're not wrong? I see, but I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:57:15):
I'm looking at them, and it's possible that they're supposed
to be, like you know, earlier, mid term as far
as pregnancy is concerned. But also you got to compare
that to other artwork at the time, and that's this
was you got to keep in mind, though, bro having
a pot belly was seen as a very attractive feature
on women only up until like the eighteen hundreds was

(01:57:37):
that seen as not so good?

Speaker 2 (01:57:41):
Now you see how like truth can it fluctuates a
little bit?

Speaker 4 (01:57:46):
Well, there's more, there's more reasons behind that though, right,
So if a person being fat was seen as a
very attractive feature, like not like morbally ob six hundred pounds,
but like you're well being overweight exactly because back in
the day, people weren't thriving, they were surviving. And if
you were somebody that was so wealthy that you're eating

(01:58:07):
so good that you are actually on the chubbier side,
like that was a that was a big old flag
for potential suitors.

Speaker 2 (01:58:16):
I guess that explains why we like them thick.

Speaker 4 (01:58:18):
You know, well, you know I do like something soft
to squeeze on, bro And it's not because of a
pot belly neither. It's just, you know, it is what
it is. I do, in fact, have a sickness for
the thickness. It's been very well documented.

Speaker 2 (01:58:29):
I mean hopefully a lot of that thickness is to
the cakes. And now some of them. I mean, you
check out this this broad raid here, she got a
little arch to her back.

Speaker 4 (01:58:38):
You know what I'm saying there is let it be known,
there is in fact a sway.

Speaker 3 (01:58:43):
Back on the flag on the play here, Like, yes,
that is a fact.

Speaker 2 (01:58:47):
But then you get to this potato like creature and
it's just a strap.

Speaker 3 (01:58:51):
We call that pear.

Speaker 4 (01:58:52):
Shaped Jonathan God, but none of them really have thick thighs.

Speaker 2 (01:59:00):
Well, it depends on you know, where does the ass
start in the thigh begin you know.

Speaker 3 (01:59:05):
Ah, never mind all chicks. Second from the rights, she
got some thighs on her?

Speaker 2 (01:59:09):
Oh she do? Yeah, they I think they kind of
all do. Got some some jiggle to the to them
thunder thighs though, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:59:15):
So that's my point was this just supposed to be
twelve what they would have considered to be the epitome
of gorgeous women from that day and age. I mean, hell,
you could even look at ancient Greek and ancient Roman
sculptures of what the epitome of a gorgeous and hot
woman was. They're all thick, they all got some fluff
on them, not a single stick figure to be found,

(01:59:37):
which again, I know there's so many guys that they.

Speaker 3 (01:59:40):
Just love those gym rat chicks.

Speaker 4 (01:59:42):
Meanwhile, I'm like, that is so anti what human history
has taught us as attractive.

Speaker 5 (01:59:47):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:59:48):
I know, way this is before Izembic, you know, because.

Speaker 4 (01:59:51):
Before yeah yeah, but yeah, man, I'm just saying thickness
is something that we are supposed to be desiring. It's
just know, my opinion and the opinion of every fucking
human civilization for the last four thousand years or whatever.

Speaker 3 (02:00:05):
But hey, what do I know?

Speaker 2 (02:00:06):
Nobody's trying to start a fire, dude. You know we
all want a little a little cushion for the pushing.

Speaker 3 (02:00:11):
Absolutely bro dogs like sticks to chew on. I don't.

Speaker 2 (02:00:16):
Smithsonian Magazine points out one image that appears to show
two nymphs holding up a pair of ovaries. The ballneological
section is like what would happen if Tim Leary took
a time machine and slipped hieronymous bosh, which it says,
but with lesser artistic talent, oh slipped them lsd. So

(02:00:37):
d Impiro notes that the Voyage Manuscript and Element are
an elegant enigma book, that this is the most mysterious
part of the manuscript and is one of the most
speculated about. So holding up ovaries in some of them,
not in this picture, but in one of them.

Speaker 3 (02:00:52):
I about to say, I don't see any of that,
but all.

Speaker 2 (02:00:54):
Right, Oh the Voynage Manuscript's climax, okay, in all the roots?
Yeah yeah. So that brings us to the last part
of the manuscript, which is generally called the pharmacological or
pharmaceutical section. This part returns to plant drawings, which are
maybe more vegetable than flower like, but this time it

(02:01:15):
is aligned with objects that resemble hookahs, although one could
make the case that they look like multi tiered wedding
cakes or burial urns. This is followed by pages of
pure voyna cheese with divisions in the text marked by stars.
According to the Binikey Library, this is the recipe part
of the manuscript, though admittedly nobody really knows what it's saying.

(02:01:37):
As a reminder of its weirdness, the last page has
one more doodle of a nymph and an animal scribbled
in the corner. The last section, in combination with the
bathing section, have led people to speculate that the Voinage
Manuscript may be medical or alchemical in nature. One theory,
reported by Ours Technica claims that the Voyage Manuscript is

(02:01:59):
a whim's health manual plagiarized from medieval Latin texts. That's
not the craziest thing I've heard today. Some divine feminine shit,
just women's health in general, not necessarily divine feminine. But oh,
I mean, if you're linking it up to the moon

(02:02:19):
cycles and the stars, and you know, just starting it
out there.

Speaker 3 (02:02:24):
I'm with you.

Speaker 4 (02:02:26):
I could see, I could see the connection that could
be made just off of the images alone, and people
have been to giant hookah on the left.

Speaker 2 (02:02:34):
That's dope, that is pretty sweet. But people have been
taking like ritual baths for a long time too.

Speaker 4 (02:02:40):
Yes, especially back in the Middle Ages, where you wouldn't
bathe but like once every so often, you know, so
like bathing was seen as if nothing else, a portion
of a ritual.

Speaker 3 (02:02:51):
You know, only the wealthy and the elites bathed that
like a regular interval.

Speaker 2 (02:02:54):
So it says. It goes on to say that even
history's greatest code breakers couldn't figure out the Voytage Manuscript.
They have repeated attempts to decipher the Voyage Manuscript as
related to or related by the BBC's History Extra. Some
of the most gifted crypto analysts of the twentieth century
set their minds to it, including Alan Turing, mathematicians, medievalists,

(02:03:16):
and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The FBI looked into this.
William Friedman, the head cryptanalyst of the US Army Signal
Intelligence Service who cracked Japan's Code Purple during World War Two,
spent three decades trying to decipher this holy shit. So,
according to the Folger Library, Friedman even used some of

(02:03:38):
the earliest computers to try to break the code of
the Voyna Cheese. He published his conclusion in an encoded
anagram in a nineteen fifty nine article concerning anagrams in
the works of Jeffrey Chauncer or Chaucer Rather, the solution
remained sealed until his death, upon which his opinion was revealed.
This is his opinion. The Voyage Manuscript was an early

(02:04:00):
attempt to construct an artificial or universal language of the
of the A priori type. Okay, interesting, Inevitably there is
a person. Oh that kind of points to that. Why
aren't we just talking about the priory? Oh, priory priory?
Why do we keep on saying priori? It looks like

(02:04:20):
it a.

Speaker 4 (02:04:22):
Pre Let me read the text is too small for
to read the A priory type, so it looks like
it's not the same word. Yeah, that's that's priori. Priory
like you're talking about is another term for like a
group of monks.

Speaker 2 (02:04:36):
Gotcha? Okay, So inevitably there is a person or group
that claims to has deciphered the manuscript. Recent examples include
a twenty twenty claim by a German egyptologist, a twenty
nineteen claim by the Guardian that the document was a
therapeutic reference book for the Queen of Aragon, a twenty

(02:04:56):
eighteen claim published by the National Geographic and twenty seventeen
claim published in The Times Literary Supplement based on the
Women's Health Manual theory. All of these solutions have fallen flat.
So is the Voyage Manuscript a hoax? If all attempts
to decipher the Voyage Manuscript that failed, it is natural
to suppose that it must be a hoax. One writer

(02:05:19):
for the BBC concluded that the manuscript was an elaborate
fraud perpetrated by Wilfrid Voinage himself. He, as an antiquarian,
had a large stock of Medieval Area or Medieval era
vellum and fabricated the entire text. It would be helpful
if the ink could be karmi dated like the vellum. However,
doing so is not eedy easy, according to the University

(02:05:41):
of Arizona, since ink often has low amounts of carbon
or lax it all together. Gordon Rugg is one of
the strongest proponents of the hoax theory. In his book
called blind Spot, he argues that the fact that the
best code breakers in the world could not break the
code is simply because there is no code. However, if
it is a hoax, then it is most founding. It
is the most confounding hoax in history, and hot debate continues.

(02:06:04):
As reported, advice doctor Diego Emancio of the University of
Sal Paulo's Institute of Mathematical and Computer Sciences ran large,
large scale statistical analysis of Voi Chinese and found that
there seems to be an underlying pattern. This is his quote.
Our research has shown that the Voyage manuscript presents a
great deal of statistical patterns that are similar to those

(02:06:27):
of natural languages. So if Voinage had spent all the time,
all that time perpetrating the hoax, then then he would
have been a talented hoaxer.

Speaker 4 (02:06:39):
Indeed, so, so I got a couple of problems with
what has been said on that one. All right, So
your boy Voyage being an antiquarian, what that means is
he's into antiques. That that's what that means. Is a
fancy word to mean that. And even if he was
an antiquarian of the medieval variety, you're telling me that

(02:07:00):
our boy here happened to have three hundred pages of
medieval vellum, blank vellum, just laying about.

Speaker 3 (02:07:09):
I'm sorry, what even.

Speaker 4 (02:07:12):
If we are to assume that maybe he happened to
have that the statement that was made that ink holds
very low carbon, I'm gonna just stop the presses on
that one right now. Just anybody knows. Do you know
where black ink gets its blackness from?

Speaker 3 (02:07:32):
Anybody?

Speaker 2 (02:07:33):
Carbon?

Speaker 5 (02:07:34):
Coal?

Speaker 3 (02:07:35):
Fucking charcoal, which is literally carbon.

Speaker 4 (02:07:39):
So what he just said is mathematically incorrect.

Speaker 2 (02:07:45):
But okay, okay, all right, Well the search continues. So
what is the Voytage manuscript really? If the Voytage Manuscript
isn't a hoax, then what is it? What is its secret?
There are many theories, but none none have had any
degree of sustainability. It appears that the world's most mysterious
manuscript is what you make of it. It possesses a

(02:08:06):
mystique which leads one to believe that through it you
can learn the secrets of the universe or maybe the
presence of extraterrestrials. According to The New Yorker, this single
original manuscript encourages us to sit with the concept of
truth and to remember that there are inelectable mysteries at
the bottom of things whose meanings we will never know.

(02:08:27):
So because of modern technology, there is an ever growing
number of Voyage researchers. A high resolution version of the
manuscript has been digitized by the Binikey Library, which has
allowed a proliferation of groups on Reddit and other websites
to speculate on this document, which will likely remain an
enigma an enigma rather ultimately, the Voynage Manuscript says more
about humanities need to find an answer than the actual

(02:08:49):
answer itself. Okay, okay, so interesting, right, like to say
the least that they have not been able to figure
it out at all. Just thought I wanted to bring
up that that part. Now this is where we start
getting weird. Okay, we weren't get weird if we weren't
there already, We're gonna get extra weird.

Speaker 3 (02:09:09):
Okay, Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:09:10):
So that brings up the hypothesis of Edward Kelly and
the Angel's Book. So now we arrive at perhaps the
most compelling theory out there. So in the fifteen hundreds,
Edward Kelly, who was a scrier and an alchemist, worked
with doctor John d the Queen's astrologer. Kelly claimed that
he could summon angels through crystal crystal scrying, and that

(02:09:32):
those angels dictated to him a new language, the language
of angels aka Inochian. The Voyage script resembles Enochian in
eerie ways. Both look alien, both have internal linguistic structure,
and both are surrounded by diagrams of stars in mystical imagery.
Could the Voyage manuscript be the material record of Kelly's

(02:09:54):
angelic communications. And if Kelly was receiving transmissions from non
human intelligences, then and this book may be the single
surviving copy of that contact. Consider this, D and Kelly
believed that the angels were giving them secrets of the cosmos,
knowledge of medicine, astrology, even empire building. D himself thought
this wisdom could guide England into becoming a global power.

(02:10:17):
If Kelly's angelic notes survived in the form of the Voyage,
then what we're looking at isn't a medieval curiosity. It's
a download from beyond our dimension, preserved under lock and
key to this day. So was the Voyage of the
Angel's book? Did Edward Kelly write it down under trance,
encoding angelic science for the chosen few? And if that's
the truth, then this manuscript is nothing less than a

(02:10:39):
forbidden gospel from higher beings, one that could change humanity
forever if we could only read it. So that's where
we're gonna start to get even weirder. We're gonna bring
up one of our favorites, and that is the Wi Files.

Speaker 3 (02:10:56):
I do love the Wi Files.

Speaker 4 (02:10:57):
I will say I don't inherently disagree with that theory.
It's an interesting one, to say the least. But Edward
Kelly was brought in by Rudolph the second into his
court and Prague to do alchemy and these things. If
that was the case, Rudolph wouldn't have had to buy
this book for six hundred ducats. Kelly would have been

(02:11:18):
doing it under his command. Therefore would have already been his.

Speaker 2 (02:11:21):
Unless Edward Kelly had a predecessor that he learned from,
I think is the point.

Speaker 4 (02:11:27):
Well, they were talking about how he was doing crystal
scrying and things like that, and it was written in
a Nokian. And again I'm not saying that this necessarily
means that it's bullshit. Perhaps Edward Kelly wrote it at
the behest of Rudolph the Second, and then Rudolph bought
his work from him.

Speaker 3 (02:11:41):
Like I don't know, but it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:11:45):
Well, Rudolph bought it. According to what we had read earlier,
he bought it from The reason he bought it was
because he thought that a scientist wrote it. And I
can't remember what his name was, but he thought that
a specific scientist wrote it. But that couldn't have been
the case because the scientists existed, like I don't know,
like years after it would have been written. So anyway,

(02:12:08):
let's go over to your boy the WI Files. This
is a ten minute video. We're going to make interval,
you know, stops and everything to try and uh, maybe
we'll maybe we'll find something out in here. I watched it. It
was actually a really good breakdown of it. But check
it out him and the Heckelfish, let's get weird.

Speaker 7 (02:12:25):
For six hundred years, the Voyage Manuscript has stumped scholars, cryptographers, physicists,
computer scientists, pretty much everybody. Now, a researcher in Germany
has claimed to have finally decoded the most mysterious book.

Speaker 3 (02:12:37):
In the world.

Speaker 7 (02:12:38):
E gig, what's it say? Well, welcome to the WI Files.
We're smart folks like us, come to laugh and learn.
Have the secrets of the Voyage Manuscript finally been revealed.
Well a German egyptologist claims he solved it, has he
well he thinks so. For some background, the Voyage Manuscript

(02:13:00):
is a two hundred and forty page medieval codex written
in an indecipherable language, full of bizarre drawings of strange plants,
astrological symbols, and lots and lots of naked women. Oohays
they were centifold. Actually there is spicy. The Voyage Manuscript
defies classification and has also defied comprehension. Everybody's taken a
shot at this. Cryptologists, FBI operatives, respected medievalists, mathematic and

(02:13:25):
scientific scholars, skilled linguists. They've all been left stumped. Even
Alan Turing took a crack at it and came up short.
A book written in an unknown language no one has
been able to decode. With crumbling pages made of bound
calfskin dating back to the fifteenth century, you'd probably picture
something out of a Nicholas Cage movie. What you might
not picture is a book filled with whimsical illustrations of

(02:13:48):
nude women in bathtubs, bathtubs with windows, bathtubs shaped like ovaries,
bathtubs oozing green liquid. Bathtubs, bathtubs, bathtubs everywhere. These, along
with drawings of star shaped flats and wild green vines.
They're all kind of tucked inside the pages. The mysterious
book has been divided into sections by historians, herbal, astrological, pharmacological,

(02:14:09):
and balneological, ball theological, in the study of balls, the.

Speaker 5 (02:14:14):
Study of baths, God that makes more sense.

Speaker 7 (02:14:16):
The herbal section is thick with elaborate drawings of unrecognized plants.
They're twisted and spiky, with dripping leaves and wide petals,
and one drawing there's some kind of reptilian sea creature
who looks like a mix between a dragon and a
seahorse is chewing on one of the leaves. Looks like
whoever made this book was also making funny tea with
those plants. That would answer some questions. In the astrological section,

(02:14:38):
pages fold out into massive charts of the night sky
with complicated constellations intertwined with doodles of naked women holding
stars and emerging from tubes. Well, wit, wit, is this
the centerfold you were talking about? Yep, no mermaids and nothing.

Speaker 5 (02:14:53):
Nope. Bit of a letdown. You need a girlfriend.

Speaker 7 (02:14:56):
Well, let's go to the store and pick what out.
That's not a healthy way to start a relationship. If
she doesn't work out, we'll exchange it for.

Speaker 5 (02:15:01):
A new one. You can't do that, right, right, right, right?

Speaker 7 (02:15:04):
How many times have you said you'd like to trade
your wife in?

Speaker 5 (02:15:07):
No?

Speaker 7 (02:15:07):
No, no, no, no, some say the astrological part is the
book's most translatable section. It features constellations like Pisces, Taurus
and Sagittarius, but they're a little bit off, and the
ball in theological section is by far the most bizarre.
You've got naked women floating, swimming, drowning, and resting in
all kinds of baths, and the baths are cake shaped

(02:15:30):
baths or holes in the ground, winding river like pipes,
and baths shaped like a woman's reproductive system. This section
is the most famous in the manuscript, and it's easy
to see why people have wondered for centuries why the
author was so fascinated with women in bathtubs. This has
given me some ideas for a new fish bowl design. Nope,

(02:15:51):
don't even How good are you at blowing glass?

Speaker 5 (02:15:54):
Oh? I'm not blowing anything for you.

Speaker 3 (02:15:58):
Watch how butter affects love.

Speaker 2 (02:16:02):
So interesting, so far right like this, I mean, what
do you make out of all this so far like
as far as the women and the bathtubs and the constellations,
and it all seems to almost perfectly correlate the different
constellations in the sky, but it's a little bit off.

Speaker 4 (02:16:19):
Well from what we read earlier, none of the constellations
actually line up with constellations that we see in the
night sky, which would lead those to indicate that these
are constellations from another planet. This is what another planet
sees in their night sky. I'm not saying I necessarily
believe that or not, but I really don't know what
to make of it any more than any other scholars

(02:16:40):
have tried to make heads or tails of any of
this either.

Speaker 3 (02:16:45):
Could this be channeled information? Could this all be alchemical text?

Speaker 4 (02:16:49):
And it's written in very poetic ways with a lot
of pictures to make it look very nice, but in
reality it's like chemical formulas and things like that, and
it's like actually chemistry, just in a different format.

Speaker 3 (02:17:02):
I have no idea what to call this.

Speaker 2 (02:17:04):
Let's keep going action.

Speaker 7 (02:17:06):
The pharmacological section is almost all texts in Voina cheese.
Is Voina cheese made by cows or goats.

Speaker 5 (02:17:12):
Technically it was made by a man.

Speaker 2 (02:17:14):
I have nipples, Greg, could you milk me?

Speaker 3 (02:17:16):
Ye?

Speaker 7 (02:17:17):
Voined cheese is written from left to right, and although
it's never been officially deciphered, there's definitely a structure to it.
Researchers have concluded that the language has twenty to twenty
five distinct letters, but nobody's been able to figure out
how the letters fit together. According to kryptanalyst Elizabeth Friedman
in nineteen sixty two, anyone who attempts to translate.

Speaker 5 (02:17:35):
It is doomed to utter frustration.

Speaker 7 (02:17:37):
Satan goes with trying to understand a YouTube algorithm.

Speaker 5 (02:17:40):
Can't argue with that.

Speaker 7 (02:17:41):
The theories about the Voyage Manuscript are all over the place.
Somethink the book was written by philosophers in a secret
code only they could understand. But my favorite theory is aliens. Yep,
if you google Voyage plus Aliens, you get all kinds
of great stuff because it contains a language that cannot
be found anywhere else on the planet. And given the
fact that the ancient manuscript depicts star charts that are

(02:18:02):
unknown to us, the Voyage Manuscript could have been created
by a being not from Earth who during the fourteen
hundreds crash landed here. Knowing that humans didn't have the
necessary technology to help him return to his planet. Maybe
the alien visitor decided to chronicle his remaining life on
Earth inside the manuscript ET's Color and book Oh I
Love the Internet. After hundreds of years have failed attempts

(02:18:23):
to translate it, no theory was really off the table,
but this June, one man claimed to have cracked the
code once and for all. According to German egyptologist Rayner Hannig,
Voyage Cheese is actually based in Hebrew. He concluded that
the text must be a Semitic language, and given the
European imagery in the book's illustrations, he narrowed the options
to Arabic, Aramaic or Hebrew, which were languages spoken by

(02:18:45):
the European scholars of the Middle Ages. After identifying a
connection between certain Voyage characters in Hebrew, he managed to
translate the first few words and then full sentences. It
will be years, Hannick says, before the full manuscript will
be translated, So what's it say? Mostly the Gibberish experts
in ancient Hebrew are not convinced that Hannah cracked anything.
They've poked more than a few holes in his translation,

(02:19:06):
and said he's taken quite a few liberties with the
language to try to derive meaning where it just doesn't exist.
Oh my god, long us. Over the past few decades,
at least sixty Voyage solutions have been published.

Speaker 5 (02:19:18):
So far all of them have been debunked.

Speaker 7 (02:19:20):
In twenty nineteen, David Cheshire, a research associate at the
University of Bristol and England, thought the book was written
in a language loss to time, a predecessor to modern
English in Spanish, he told Romance Studies, when I realized
the magnitude of the achievement, it was like a Eureka moment.
And Cheshire's news hit the media like a tsunami and
was debunked with the same amount of force. Botched research

(02:19:41):
and a rush to publication added up to a pretty
embarrassing mess. And as stated in Ours Technica after the fallout,
another day, another dubious claim that someone has decoded the
Voyage manuscript.

Speaker 2 (02:19:52):
Now what do you think it could mean, though, Jacob,
Like like getting as weird as humanly possible, fucking women
in bathtubs, and you know, in green liquid there's all
these different botany things that are going on. I mean, like,
just looking at the imagery alone, what do you think
all of it could be.

Speaker 4 (02:20:13):
Looking at the imagery alone and taking away all of
the wording, the languages, all these things. Women in green
baths isn't the strangest thing on earth to me, especially
when you look at Roman bathhouses and how all of
them were using sulfur infused water, which does in fact

(02:20:34):
have a greenish hue, and well.

Speaker 2 (02:20:36):
There would be probably algae build up as well too,
I would think.

Speaker 4 (02:20:41):
Nope, sulfur kills that, and sulfur is used as a
cleaning agent, purifying and things like that. Yeah, it smells
like rotten eggs, but they felt like it was very
good for their health, which it is, for the record,
that being said, to see a bunch of naked women
in a bathtub that's green, my mind instantly goes to, oh,

(02:21:01):
this must have been something of Roman inspiration behind that.
At least, that's just where my mind goes. Instead of
blue water, you would have green water. There's only a
few instances where that's something that is seen semi at
least in the time and place semi quote unquote normally right,
the flowers and the fauna that is being shown. I

(02:21:23):
could see that being some sort of pharmachia, right, some
sort of herbology, some sort of you know, if we're
going to go that route, Yes, technically alchemy, but what
I mean by that is strictly of the physical science
and nature and chemistry of it, not the esoteric and
occult stuff the star charts and things like that. Could

(02:21:43):
this be a different way of trying to perceive the
stars and form a calendar of some type, or a
prediction of things to come, or a documentation as to
the time and place where certain things had already taken place. Right,
this is what the stars looked like on the day
when this took place here, something like that. My mind
kind of goes there initially, but again that's just going

(02:22:06):
off of the pictures alone. Anything else that's within it.
Bro I mean, literally, anybody's guests is as good as
anybody else's guests.

Speaker 2 (02:22:14):
Let's continue.

Speaker 7 (02:22:15):
Seventeene Television writer Nicholas Gibbs made international news when he
claimed to have solved the mystery. Gibbs believed that the
book is a women's health manual and the language is
actually made up of Latin abbreviations. Now, the Woman's Health
Book theory might hold some merit. I mean, why else
would you doodle ovaries in a bunch of fallopian tubes
unless you Jackie Treehorn and Lebowski fans get it. But

(02:22:36):
the Latin abbreviation idea was less convincing. Latin experts found
his translations to be pretty much nonsense. This wasn't too
much of a shock. Gibbs didn't have a lot of
credibility to begin with. He was studying the text for
a television show and lacked real experience in historical text
to coding. So Davy producers think.

Speaker 5 (02:22:55):
They know everything.

Speaker 7 (02:22:56):
Even the Hebrew theory has been brought up and shut
down before. In twenty sixteen, two computer scientists announced that
they had successfully translated the entire sentences of the book
from Hebrew. How did they test their theory, Well, they
typed every Hebrew letter they recognized into Google Translate. According
to their findings, the first sentence of the manuscript reads,
she made recommendations to the priest man of the house,

(02:23:19):
and me and people.

Speaker 5 (02:23:20):
Seems legit. It wasn't.

Speaker 7 (02:23:22):
Hebrew experts reviewed this work and said the translation wasn't
even close now. While the language of the Voyage Manuscript
remains unknown, the book's history is slightly less mysterious, although
there's still a few hundred years not accounted for. Historians
at the University of Arizona have carbon dated the book
to the fifteenth century, between fourteen oh four and fourteen
thirty eight. Inclues such as the style of the illustrations,

(02:23:43):
the type of pigments and paints used, and the calfskin
that the text was written on, all indicated probably originated
in northern Italy. The Voyage first appears in the historical
record in the late sixteenth century, when Holy Roman Emperor
Rudolph the Second purchased book, and the Imperial Physician's signature
is visible on the first page of the text, so
we know he probably had it. It then passed into
the hands of George Buresque, an alchemist from Prague, who

(02:24:06):
referred to the book as a certain riddle of the
sphinx that was uselessly taking up space. When Buresque's air
inherited the manuscript, he sent it to an Egyptian hieroglyphics
expert in Rome for help decoding the text. Did he decoding?

Speaker 5 (02:24:19):
He did not. He said it couldn't be cracked.

Speaker 3 (02:24:22):
Man, Well, they weren't kidding.

Speaker 7 (02:24:25):
The manuscript then disappeared for two hundred and fifty years,
finally resurfacing when it was purchased by Polish book dealer
Wilfridvoyage in nineteen twelve, and Voyage dedicated his life to
deciphering it, and eventually the book was named after him.
For a time, some people believe that Voynage himself wrote
the manuscript, hoping to sell the medieval mystery for a
lot of money, but carbon dating proved this theory impossible.

Speaker 5 (02:24:44):
The book was.

Speaker 7 (02:24:44):
Eventually donated to Yale's Binicky Rare Book and Manuscript Library,
where it remains today, capturing imaginations, igniting curiosities, and fueling controversies.
While historians and cryptologists, linguists and scientists continued their search
for the Voyage manuscripts, meaning the most logical theory to
me is that it was a hoax perpetrated on Emperor

(02:25:05):
Rudolph by Edward Kelly, a medieval scam artist. Kelly would
go into these trances where he claimed to be able
to speak to angels, and other people would then write
down what the angels said in their angel language. Other
people spoke this angel language.

Speaker 5 (02:25:20):
Nope, and what do they write down? Just you know, nonsense.

Speaker 7 (02:25:25):
That is not at all helpful. It's not if the
manuscript really is a transcription of one of these angel sessions,
decoding it is going to be tricky. Do angels even
have a language? Oh, some people in the comments are
going to insist they do, you'll see. So the best
cryptographers are stumped. Computer scientists and all their tools have
got nowhere, and experts in ancient languages have all hit

(02:25:46):
dead ends. I guess all we have left to do
is wait for an angel.

Speaker 2 (02:25:52):
Okay, so there you have WI files tried to crack it.
Everybody else has tried to crack it.

Speaker 4 (02:25:58):
I mean, what do you make a theory? I like
this theory a lot. I personally don't believe in scrying.
And so whenever we read that Edward Kelly would do
crystal scrying right off the rip, that reads to me
like Joseph Smith, how he had to look through the
moonstone at the text to write it down to get
the Book of Mormon. That that's what that sounds like

(02:26:20):
to me personally. Now, I'm not saying that Edward Kelly
was an absolute hoaxer. I'm saying that he is not
seen as as much of a credible source as John D. So,
I mean, as far as that goes, even of the
day and age of alchemists and all these things, John D.
No one questions that he was at least about his business.
I have heard some controversy towards Edward Kelly. He was

(02:26:42):
a pure he was a polymath, for sure, but he
was also you know that he's not as seen as
such a credible source by all. And I'm still not
convinced that this manuscript is a hoax.

Speaker 3 (02:26:56):
It might be, It absolutely might be.

Speaker 4 (02:27:01):
I'm just I'm not fully convinced of it at this time,
But I honestly, just like everybody else, cannot make heads
or tails about anything else about it. Maybe this was
even written in some sort of secret shorthand that was
done in a certain shop right, Like by shop, I
mean like a shop of alchemists that were working on something,
but they didn't want their work to be stolen by

(02:27:22):
other people, right. Competition has always been a thing, especially
in the realm of polymaths and things like this. So
is it possible that they came up with their own
form of shorthand that kind of looks Latin based, kind
of looks Hebrew based, because alchemists and polymaths spoke Hebrew, Greek,
and Latin. So maybe they came up with their own
kind of abbreviated shorthand version of it that they would
kind of know what they're working on because they know

(02:27:44):
what their coworkers handwriting looks like.

Speaker 3 (02:27:47):
Kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (02:27:48):
I mean, all these are very possible, and there's loads
of people. This is why there's thousands and thousands of
different religions and spin offs of certain religions out there,
because at some point, almost at every point in history,
some people believe that they were receiving some kind of
divine guidance from somewhere, right, whether it is Joseph Smith,

(02:28:11):
whether it is fucking Moses or Mohammed or a name
your you know, your religious character, spiritual character, whatever. And
so I think that ultimately it's almost like a you
almost have to take it on faith, regardless of whoever
is receiving the information, And how do you clarify that

(02:28:33):
it actually was God or was the angels or was
aliens or something like that? Like it's you have to
take it entirely on faith. So I understand why some
people would say, well, I don't get down with Edward Kelly.
I think that he was bullshitting. I think that he
was a hoaxer. He what he says he was channeling angels.
Angels aren't going to be channeled. Who do you think

(02:28:55):
you are? Kind of thing. Meanwhile, some people believe that
you can literally get information directly from God himself, and
people take that too. So like if you can't look
at one side and think that it's silly and then
look at another side and say that absolutely happened. Like logically,
I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (02:29:13):
Yeah, I have a hard time believing that you would
be able to channel an angel easier than you'd be
able to channel God. But that's just my own religious
dogmare on that one. For you to say that this
guy was doing crystal scrying and speaking the Enochian language
from that, yeah, right off the rip, that sounds very

(02:29:33):
very it's very far fetched for me to grasp a sure.

Speaker 2 (02:29:38):
To be fair, all scrying, all crystal scrying is is
just putting yourself into a deep trance. That's really the
bare bones of it. It's just putting yourself into a
deep enough trance to where you become extremely meditative. That's
really all it is. It's no different than fire scrying,
or or sitting there in a lotus position and or

(02:30:00):
sitting in prayer. You're just putting your mind into an
altered state to be able to try and receive information.
That's all scrying really is.

Speaker 4 (02:30:09):
But you're also not going to be writing shit down
while you're in that meditative state. You're going to be
deeply concentrated in your meditation.

Speaker 2 (02:30:16):
No, not necessarily. There are plenty of people that have
done that. Nick talks about that all the time every
time that he's you know, talking to the plaadiants. Whatever
people think of him, he's able to like he is
speaking as he's receiving the information. And you know, even me, like,
here's a good example a past life progression. I'm in
a like you've been in a hypnotic trance before and

(02:30:38):
you were able to talk.

Speaker 3 (02:30:40):
You know, it's the same thing down.

Speaker 2 (02:30:43):
Maybe you didn't need to write it down. Maybe they
didn't need to write it down. I don't know. I mean,
some people are a little bit more gifted at doing
multiple things at once. I don't know. I don't think
that I'd be able to write something down with my
eyes closed in that sense.

Speaker 4 (02:30:53):
But that's my point though, right, Like, if I had
a pen in my hand and like I was like
in that meditative state and I'm just like writing stuff,
perhaps it would have looked horrible in the moment, But
then after I was out of the meditative trance, I
could look at it and like more neatly write it out,
to put it to form and all that.

Speaker 3 (02:31:10):
Maybe he had a day with a quill and ink, dude.

Speaker 2 (02:31:13):
He could have just had Maybe he wasn't writing it
down as he was in that trance. Maybe just has
a really good recollection of what happened during said trance.
I don't everybody's different with that, you know, to.

Speaker 4 (02:31:23):
A degree, I'll give you that, But we're talking for
over four hundred pages of it.

Speaker 3 (02:31:28):
I don't know. Again, I don't even I'm not convinced
that Edward Kelly wrote it, Like we're talking about that.

Speaker 4 (02:31:34):
It's all hypothetical, completely in the realm of hypothetical, right right,
And I'm not even saying that it's the most likely
because I honestly I don't have a most likely outcome
to this.

Speaker 2 (02:31:44):
I really don't. I have things that I'm more inclined
to want to believe, you know, such as it's alchemical
or magical, or was it channeled by aliens, aliens or
angels like that seems like the most fun. It could
have just been some random fucking guy who decided to
get his hand on some extremely expensive paper, maybe stole
it from a queen or something like that. It could

(02:32:06):
be something so simple and he was just doodling down.
But even still just doodling something down, he I mean,
especially back in those times, not everybody could read, not
everybody could write, you know, So that's where you're inclined
to believe that it was somebody of some importance, right.

Speaker 3 (02:32:22):
One hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (02:32:23):
But that's the other thing, dude, As of this moment,
I do not know for one hundred percent anything. I
am more inclined to believe that it is the hypothetical
women's health book. I could see that as a possibility,
especially when you talk about moon cycles and star alignments

(02:32:43):
and things like that, especially how that pertains to women's cycles, right,
or how that does line up to lunar cycles and
things like that. When we're talking about the flora and
fauna and how that certain things that women eat do
in fact affect vaginal health, and things like that bathing
in the green liquid or the sulfur bats or whatever

(02:33:05):
else that could affect your pH and things. That's like,
I could see it being a possible women's health manuscript
from this timeframe. My issue is no one in the
fifteen hundreds gave a fuck about women's health.

Speaker 2 (02:33:18):
And I did say that it actually carbon dated it
to I believe was fourteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (02:33:23):
So to further the point, no one gave a fuck
about women in the fourteen fifteen hundreds.

Speaker 3 (02:33:30):
They were seeing as second class citizens for the most.

Speaker 2 (02:33:33):
Part, unless you're a royalty.

Speaker 4 (02:33:36):
Yes, yes, if you're a royalty, your father would pimp
you out to the highest bidder to strengthen his royal
family's lineage.

Speaker 3 (02:33:42):
That if you were a female like you didn't have claim.

Speaker 4 (02:33:45):
You couldn't be to have a queen of a nation
like being the actual power of the nation was only
done for very short amounts of time until the next
male heir came of age to take the throne from her.

Speaker 3 (02:33:57):
Like. That's not how this goes down.

Speaker 4 (02:33:59):
So I'm not saying that there weren't certain women that
were seen as very important figures or exalt to figures
or whatever. The Middle Ages women were not. No, I
actually actually cared about that.

Speaker 2 (02:34:12):
I think that that leads a little bit more credence
to could this have been some kind of witchy relic.

Speaker 3 (02:34:20):
Like you said, more of the alchemical.

Speaker 2 (02:34:22):
Like you know, just I don't know, maybe old school witchcraft.
It was around that time that witches were definitely around, right.

Speaker 4 (02:34:30):
But witches like you're talking about, the proper witches, right,
they wouldn't have been in such a position of society
to get their hands on vellum with the ink and
the paints to make all these things. Yeah, the information
that was being you know, passed through the book, for sure,
But I would argue that most of the witches wouldn't

(02:34:51):
have been able to read or write this particular language,
and wouldn't have had access to these expensive materials to
make this book.

Speaker 3 (02:34:58):
Most of the grimoires that we have, the codexes.

Speaker 4 (02:35:00):
And all of these things were written by polymats and
people that were in the courts of certain royalty that
were being tasked out to do these things and had
the budget of the king to do these things.

Speaker 3 (02:35:10):
Very similar today to.

Speaker 4 (02:35:11):
Why we have all the technology Why aren't we putting
more research and funding into this.

Speaker 3 (02:35:16):
Type of medicine.

Speaker 4 (02:35:17):
Why are y'all all worried about chemo Because these guys
are at the behest of the government powers that be,
and they're only going to fund certain research, right, So
it's in the same kind of realm as far as
that goes.

Speaker 2 (02:35:29):
Here's an interesting little thing. The oldest known grimoires date
back to ancient times, with some of the earliest written
magical incantations found in Mesopotamia dating to between the fifth
and fourth centuries BC. Additionally, the first grimoars in Europe
are believed to have emerged during the medieval period, which
is a rate around this time, with significant texts appearing

(02:35:51):
around the thirteenth century right around this time exactly.

Speaker 3 (02:35:55):
That's my point.

Speaker 4 (02:35:56):
So if it was a women's health book, I'm not
saying it's impossible.

Speaker 3 (02:36:01):
I'm saying I'm finding that very hard to believe.

Speaker 2 (02:36:04):
I think that that just leads a little bit, a
little bit of credence that it could be a grimoire.

Speaker 4 (02:36:08):
Though it's possible, it's very possible, and it kind of
has that feel to it with the and.

Speaker 2 (02:36:14):
The moon cycles in astrology, like that's that's as grimore
as it gets. I would say.

Speaker 3 (02:36:20):
It's very very possible. Was it an alchemical book?

Speaker 4 (02:36:23):
Was it a a book of just random babblings and insights.
Was it a scientific manual? Was it a medical journal
like that? There's all possibilities and no answers. I do
find it interesting that there was sunflowers and peppers in
the book, which are both not native to the area

(02:36:47):
to which this book was written.

Speaker 3 (02:36:48):
That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:36:49):
Yeah, So I just want to touch on Edward Kelly
here for a second. If we want to go that route,
we can. We can get a little weird here. So
Edward Keller is one of the one of the most
infamous occultists of the Elizabeth and Elizabethan era. Is that
what you say that?

Speaker 3 (02:37:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:37:04):
Working alongside doctor John de the astrologer and advisor to
Queen Elizabeth the First, Kelly claimed to that he could
see visions in a crystal ball and receive messages from angels.

Speaker 3 (02:37:13):
Where d was the word crystal ball thing?

Speaker 2 (02:37:15):
Well, where, hey, don't hate on it. I got a
little black of city and crystal ball here for scrying
getting where okay? And actually it's said that it's it
works a little bit better if you have a candlelit
flame right next to it, so you can kind of
lose yourself into both of them. But anyway, where d
was the scholar and the mathematician, Kelly was the medium,

(02:37:36):
the voice through which another world spoke. Kelly's life was
steeped in both mystery and scandal. Some saw him as
a prophet, others as a con man. He dabbled in alchemy,
claimed to transmute metals into gold, and was accused of
fraud more than once. But his fame came from something
far stranger, his claim to have received an entirely new
language from beings he and d believed were angels. If

(02:38:00):
Kelly was telling the truth, then what he received wasn't
just visions, It was the angelic equivalent of a manuscript.
This is where you get into the Enochian language. I've
been meaning to want to bring this up, just to
learn a little bit more about it, so I'm happy
we did it today. The language that Kelly channeled came
to be known as Enochian, the so called language of Angels. Together,

(02:38:22):
John Dee and Edward Kelly recorded entire tables of letters,
words and phrases, claiming that they were dictated during angelic visions.
This wasn't just gibberish. It was a structured system with grammar, syntax,
and rules that resembled real human languages. Inokian was said
to be the language God gave to Adam before the fall,
a primal universal tongue that carried the keys of creation.

(02:38:45):
Kelly described hearing the angel speak in it and then
painstakingly writing it down. D compiled these revelations in works
like Liber loa Gath or loa Gaith and The Five
Books of Mystery. Here's where it gets interesting, though. Scholars
analyzing the Voyage Manuscript have noted that its text, like Enochian,

(02:39:06):
have statistical patterns consistent with a real language. Neither is random.
Both resist translation. Could the Voyage Manuscript actually be Kelly's
lost transcription of angelic knowledge? So there's that. Then there's
his reputation as a trickster Kelly. Critics point out that

(02:39:28):
Kelly was often accused of fraud. He was rumored to
have faked visions to keep d interested, and he promised
noble patrons that he could make gold from lead. Some
modern researchers, like Gordon Rugg, argue that Voyage could simply
be an elaborate hoax created by someone like Kelly using
linguistic tricks. So but even if Kelly was a trickster,

(02:39:50):
that doesn't necessarily explain the Voyage. The book's linguistic complexity
goes far beyond simple word games. If Kelly created it,
then he wasn't just a con man. He was either
a genie his cryptographer centuries ahead of his time, or
he really was channeling something that he couldn't explain. That
duality the genius hoaxer versus the haunted medium makes Kelly
the perfect suspect. So, but John Dee wasn't just a magician.

(02:40:15):
He was one of the most brilliant minds of the
Elizabethan world. Decoined the phrase British Empire and believed angelic
knowledge could guide England into becoming the world's superpower. He
and Kelly's sessions weren't just for personal enlightenment. They were
meant to fuel political and imperal dominance. So if the
Voyage Manuscript is connected to d and Kelly in any way,

(02:40:36):
then it isn't just a book of strange plants. It
could be a playbook for an empire. Dictated by other
worldly forces. The angels may not have been benevolent guides
at all. They may have been manipulating humanity through knowledge, technology,
and ritual. So in this light, Voyinage becomes not just
an occult artifact, but a political weapon. There are parallels

(02:40:58):
between Voyna Cheese and Inochian as well. So when you
place the Voyage manuscript side by side with Enochian texts,
there are patterns that emerge. Both are filled with dense,
unfamiliar scripts. Both are accompanied by diagrams of stars, circles
and cosmological maps. Both are written in a way that
feels like a transmission, something meant to be copied faithfully,

(02:41:19):
not necessarily understood. Inochian was regarded through Kelly's trances, so
could the Voyage have been the same. Was Kelly scribbling
down angelic revelations, creating a codex that encoded visions of plants, medicines,
and cosmologies not of this earth? Even modern scholars admit
that voyage that the Voidage language behaves like a genuine language,

(02:41:40):
yet not one found anywhere else, just like the Inochian.
So could it be angels or something else? So what
if Kelly wasn't channeling angels at all. What if these
beings were something else, extraterrestrials, interdimensional intelligence, or entities that
thrived on manipulation. Might call that demons. Throughout history, mystics

(02:42:02):
have described encounters with beings of light that offer knowledge,
often at a cost. Kelly's angels demanded strange rituals, bizarre rules,
and even acts of obedience that troubled John Dee. If
these were the same intelligences behind the voyage, then the
manuscript could be their attempt to leave behind a permanent
mark on humanity. That turns the voyage into something darker

(02:42:24):
than a puzzle. It's more of a spiritual trojan horse.
So why Hi did all? If this is the case,
if it is an Okian, if it is even if
it's not an Okian but something similar. So if the
Voyage manuscript truly came from Edward Kelly's angelic channelings, then
it makes sense why it ended up in the hands

(02:42:44):
of emperors, Jesuits, and secret societies. Knowledge like this, whether
divine or dangerous, would be far too explosive for the public.
This could explain why Yale keeps under under lock, and
key why cryptographers always come up short, and why every
explanation seems to fall part because the book was never
meant to be understood by the masses. It was meant
to be guarded, preserved, and only used by those initiated

(02:43:06):
into its mystery. But at the end of the day,
one theory looms the largest that the Voyage Manuscript is
nothing less than a lost book of Enochian revelation, an
angelic gospel sscribed by Edward Kelly. Whether those angels were
heavenly beings or deceptive entities masquerading as guides is up
for debate, But if it is true, this would mean

(02:43:28):
that the Voyage isn't just a medieval mystery. It's proof
that humans have been in contact with intelligences beyond our world,
and that these intelligences have left us a manual hidden
in plain sight. So what is the Voyage Manuscript? Is
it a fake? Is it a code? Or is it
Edward Kelly's greatest work, an angelic transmission preserved for centuries

(02:43:49):
under the noses of emperors, jesuits, and secret societies. If
the angels truly spoke through him, then this book may
be the most dangerous artifact in history because its pages
could lie in the could lie the blueprint of reality itself,
waiting for the day that humanity is ready or desperate
enough to understand it. I love that mysterious kind of

(02:44:09):
way of looking at it. That's just I'm not even
saying that that's absolutely what it is, but I mean
it's no more wrong or right than any other theory.

Speaker 4 (02:44:17):
You know, I don't have an answer for what this
book is. However, I still have a very hard time
believing that this was done by the hands of Edward
Kelly or John Dee.

Speaker 3 (02:44:30):
And even if it was.

Speaker 4 (02:44:32):
I am a zero percent chance that they were evoking angels.

Speaker 3 (02:44:37):
Right.

Speaker 4 (02:44:37):
So a quick sarch will teach you that the Inochian
language that they're talking about, do you know where this
comes from?

Speaker 6 (02:44:44):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (02:44:44):
You would think, like the Book of Enoch.

Speaker 2 (02:44:46):
I think, yeah, I think I thought it was Enoch, right.

Speaker 4 (02:44:49):
So keep in mind the Book of Enoch predates the
writing of the New Testament, the Gospels, all of these things.
The Anochian language was started by John d and Edward Kelly.

Speaker 2 (02:45:02):
Oh yeah, that's what they say. They're the ones that
created it.

Speaker 4 (02:45:05):
They created an angelic language. I mean, it's flag to anybody.

Speaker 2 (02:45:11):
Technically all languages are created.

Speaker 4 (02:45:14):
An angelic language to talk to angels.

Speaker 3 (02:45:17):
They created it. This is not a red flag for anybody.
Hold on before.

Speaker 2 (02:45:22):
You even go there. You're the one that always says
that any kind of ritual spell, with any kind of
invocation or evocation, it must be in Hebrew, yes or no.

Speaker 3 (02:45:33):
Right, But the Hebrew wasn't created by dudes in the Renaissance.

Speaker 2 (02:45:36):
What I'm saying is is that you believe that there
is a language that directly connects the human world and
the human language to the magical world. That's what you're suggesting.

Speaker 4 (02:45:48):
I'm not gonna say only Hebrew, but yeah, an ancient
language like that, you're not going to be able to
speak American dialect English and get a spell out of it.

Speaker 2 (02:45:54):
So there is a certain language to connect you to
the unseen, is what you're saying, right, And that's that's
what John d and Edward Kelly were trying to do
as well.

Speaker 4 (02:46:02):
Right, They were trying to create their own and they
called it a Nochian which is that it's very gnostic,
it's very plagiaristic, right right off the rip. And then
also another quick search will show you, do you know
why you don't see any pictures of John d or
Edward Kelly with their ears showing. Why is that because

(02:46:23):
both of them had their ears clipped. Do you know
why in medieval times you would have your ears clipped
by the law?

Speaker 2 (02:46:30):
Eggar Allen Poe clipped his ear off or some shit,
didn't he?

Speaker 3 (02:46:32):
No, that was Van Gohen. He cut his own ear off. No, no, no.

Speaker 4 (02:46:35):
Having your ear clip means that you were tied to
a post and publicly had your ear severed off of
your head as a humiliation. Do you know what would
evoke such a punishment from the laws of the land?
Hoaxing outright lying to the king? That sounds both of
them had both of their ears clipped, which means that
this wasn't a one or two time offense for either

(02:46:57):
of them. Now, again, I'm not saying that they were
completely top to bottom full of shit. I will say
that when they created an Aenochian language based off of
crystal scrying, and that this might have led to some
of their issues in certain royal courts, especially when you
could look and see that Edward Kelly claimed to be
able to turn lead into gold, and then every time

(02:47:19):
he was asked to perform this he found some excuse
to not actually perform it. We have record of it,
but that's all third party information. No eyewitnesses that are
actually credible ever saw him do this.

Speaker 3 (02:47:30):
So that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (02:47:31):
I'm not saying that this book, the Voynage Manuscript, is
one hundred percent Edward Kelly and John d put their
hands on this book and created it. I don't know
that for a fact.

Speaker 2 (02:47:41):
It is the point that I was just trying to
say is that they seem kind of similar just the
language itself, the language itself, which you mean the Voyage
language or the Voyna Chese language and Inochian language as
they as I was talking about it before, they seem
to follow like language laws and the proper ways of

(02:48:06):
forming a sentence with punctuation and you know connecting you know,
verbs and nouns and all that other shit.

Speaker 4 (02:48:13):
But that that could be said for any of the
Latin based languages as far as sentence structure goes, and
the way a sentence flows and punctuation and things like that.

Speaker 2 (02:48:21):
What I'm saying is that if it was just made up,
it probably wouldn't have that.

Speaker 4 (02:48:26):
I mean, unless like this is the same with the
Elvish language that Tolkien made like there is a flow
to it, but he created the entire language start to finish.

Speaker 3 (02:48:33):
And I'm not saying that that was this either.

Speaker 4 (02:48:35):
If you look at the Anochian alphabet and you looked
at that lined up next to the Voyage Manuscript, you
could see some characters that look very similar in some
characters that do not. That's what I'm and I don't
know if the Voyage Manuscript is even in the Anochian language.
Nobody has been able to crack the code, and I
am sure that multiple people have tried to do that
and crack the code using the Anochian alphabet that your

(02:48:56):
boys created. Still to this day this code has not
up and cracked, which leads me to believe that it
may have some tinges of one thing and another thing
and another thing, but it is certainly not a language
that anybody can really decipher, Otherwise it would have been
deciphered by now.

Speaker 2 (02:49:13):
Yeah, for sure. I mean you could probably say the
same for the Enochian.

Speaker 4 (02:49:17):
Though exactly well, the Aochian was created and at least
they could read it, Otherwise they wouldn't have wrote it
down and then been able to translate it.

Speaker 2 (02:49:27):
I do want to throw this out there and check
this out though. So this is the uh, this is
the Aenochian alphabet right here, right, Yeah, And just comparing
it to the voyage, it almost looks kind of similar,
doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (02:49:41):
That I'm saying it looks similar?

Speaker 4 (02:49:43):
But then you could also say, like it kind of
has some Hebrew vibes to it.

Speaker 2 (02:49:47):
Right.

Speaker 4 (02:49:47):
You can see some of those characters that kind of
look Hebrew. I see a couple of these characters that
obviously look Greek.

Speaker 3 (02:49:53):
I see an.

Speaker 4 (02:49:53):
Omega symbol right there, right, I see like it's it's
kind of a weird amalgamation of all of it.

Speaker 3 (02:49:59):
And I don't I don't really know. I don't.

Speaker 4 (02:50:02):
I'm not saying that the voyage was or was not
a hoax. I don't believe it was, or at least,
if it is a hoax, it is dated to the
proper day and age, and it was a hoax that
was done by somebody at that time. I don't think
that it's an early nineteen hundred's hoax by any means.
Could it have been a hoax by Kelly and or

(02:50:22):
John D's or one of the people that worked under them,
in some way, it's possible.

Speaker 2 (02:50:27):
Oh, this is interesting. So, due to the loss of
parts of John D's original manuscripts, interpretations have arisen regarding
the meaning, validity, and authenticity behind the Inenochian language. Some
magicians have asserted that it is the oldest language in
the world, predating all other human languages. In some circles,
it is considered among the most powerful strains of magic

(02:50:49):
and is a method of contacting intelligences from other dimensions.
Detractors have pointed out that the syntax of Aenokian bears
a strong resemblance to English, d and Kelly's natural language.
Such similarities include the word lucif uh lucif it to
it's to us, a term meaning brightness, which bears a

(02:51:09):
connection to Lucifer, whose name means light bringer.

Speaker 4 (02:51:14):
Lundo's is the oldest language when they know for sure
Samerian cuneiform predates, Like, what are they talking about.

Speaker 2 (02:51:22):
They're saying that the language had to have existed before
humanity and that's how they were able to channel it.
Oh obviously, of course, of course, which I mean, if
it is real and that's really what they're doing, you
could make that argument.

Speaker 3 (02:51:35):
Ah, not even close. Cuneiform predates this.

Speaker 4 (02:51:39):
If it predates humanity, how did a written language predate
the humans that would be writing.

Speaker 2 (02:51:44):
The point is that they're trying to make. I'm not
saying that I agree with it, But the point that
they're trying to make is that the angels are older
than the humans, right, so they would also so they
would have a language before humanity ever came up with one. Hence,
if this is the language of the angels, it would
have to be older than all of humanity's languages.

Speaker 3 (02:52:03):
I see. Okay, so again, don't have a written language.
I don't know. It's never really said one way or another.

Speaker 4 (02:52:12):
But that being said, I also have a really hard
time believing that dudes that were claiming to do divination
and magic with a k and occult practices were communicating
with angels to the point of learning their language.

Speaker 3 (02:52:26):
I have a very hard time believing this.

Speaker 2 (02:52:28):
Oh, this is interesting. The Inochian language was picked up
and popularized by occultists such as the Hermitic Order of
the Golden Dawn, Aleister Crowley, Israel Regardi, and Anton Levey,
founder of the Church of Satan. Many Satanists have even
included Enochian keys in their rituals, some adopting the entire
language for use. The Inochian language was also studied by

(02:52:50):
US rocket science scientist Jack Parsons of the Oto, and
in nineteen ninety four, the Inenochian letters were used as
glyphs to operate the arc angle in the film Stargate,
one year before the US remote viewing program Stargate was
made public.

Speaker 4 (02:53:05):
Oh everything you just listed as far as names, dude,
these are bad people that are grifters that are dealing
with dark practices for the sense of doing evil shit.

Speaker 2 (02:53:15):
No, but we're not trying to find out who's good
and evil though, we're trying to see if it's valid. Right,
there's a difference.

Speaker 4 (02:53:23):
They were using the work of other grifters, That's what
I'm saying. It became popular by Crowley, a very popular
grifter and dark magician.

Speaker 2 (02:53:32):
I wouldn't say that Jack Parsons was a grifter.

Speaker 3 (02:53:35):
You wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (02:53:35):
I mean, if it wasn't for he didn't, we wouldn't
start his yo.

Speaker 4 (02:53:39):
But he didn't start his cult, not the rocket science
that he was doing, but his occult practices. He wasn't
doing that just to try to fuck everybody's wives. And
make as much money as he could and gain as
much earthly wealth as possible.

Speaker 2 (02:53:49):
I mean two things could be right at the same time.

Speaker 4 (02:53:52):
Yeah, you could be a grifter and a rocket scienceist
at the same time for sure.

Speaker 2 (02:53:55):
Oh maybe maybe they all tie together. He believed that
they tied together.

Speaker 4 (02:54:00):
Which is crazy to me, but it's he definitely, absolutely
did believe that.

Speaker 2 (02:54:04):
Another aspect of modern Nanochian language or modern Ninochian magic
is Enochian chess. It is both a game and a
divination tool, derived from the original tablets of John d.
It is a complex system that requires a strong foundation
in the study of the Kabbala, geomancy, tarot alchemy, and astrology.
Many of the original items used by d and Kelly

(02:54:25):
can be found in the British Museum in London, England.
Fucking Enochian chess. That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (02:54:32):
Okay, I'd never heard of it, but okay.

Speaker 2 (02:54:35):
This is the black scrying mirror that he was said
to be receiving said information from. I don't know, I
think of it what you want. I still find it fascinating,
you know, like that these people. First of all, they
had to have been on something or else. They wouldn't
have ever been listened to. I know a lot of
magical dorks out there that don't get any attention from governments.

(02:54:57):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (02:54:58):
Do you know how resputant got so popular in Russia? No,
he was able to quote unquote save the life of
the prince one time, and from that point onward, the
royal family just saw that he was clearly a man
of God and clearly a good guy. Never mind the
fact that he started his own private sex cult before
he ever entered the Royal court and was like doing

(02:55:20):
drugs and sex magic and all these things again for
dark occult purposes, not to like gain all that life
had to offer. No, no, no, he was doing evil shit.

Speaker 4 (02:55:29):
He did one good thing for the royal family and
they're just like, oh my god, he is the guy.

Speaker 3 (02:55:34):
Is it crazy to think that John D.

Speaker 4 (02:55:36):
Edward Kelly other polymats and alchemists back in the day
aren't really hitting on shit, but they did one thing
one time, and it was like, oh my god, this
guy's so intelligent.

Speaker 2 (02:55:45):
I think you're associating evil with incorrect and that's not right.

Speaker 3 (02:55:49):
No, I'm not.

Speaker 4 (02:55:50):
I'm saying, like, even because we're talking about them being hoaxers. Sure, sure,
I'm saying, is it possible that at one time they
did something that was incredible a time, and then from
that day foward they got in the good graces of
the royal court, and from that point they played the
role and got in good and just kind of worked
off of that Laurel and the rest of the time
they just spoke in riddles to where nobody knew what

(02:56:10):
they were actually saying, but they just thought that they
were super intelligent.

Speaker 2 (02:56:14):
Jacob, let me pull on your ear here for a second, sir,
as somebody like you and many other religious people, you
believe that this is Satan's playground, right.

Speaker 4 (02:56:27):
Like, I'm not making the evil compare soon, I'm just
talking about human psychologist.

Speaker 2 (02:56:30):
No, no, okay, I know where you're going. But you've understood.
And most religious people believe that this is Satan's world, right, and.

Speaker 3 (02:56:39):
So they're for shit at this moment. Sure, so if he.

Speaker 2 (02:56:42):
Runs shit, I mean typically most people believe that he's
running shit through his minions, right, right, And so if
he's running shit through his minions, then how is it
that every time we bring up any magician, any Satan,
any Satanists, any sacrificer, they're all grill and they're all
full of shit. If the world is so evil, how

(02:57:03):
can so many people be hoaxers and not real? And
you know what I'm trying to say, Like you would
think if there are if this is Satan's playground and
it is run by evil people, you can't then say, well,
they're all full of shit. None of it's real.

Speaker 3 (02:57:19):
It happens.

Speaker 2 (02:57:20):
It can't be.

Speaker 4 (02:57:22):
One and the other. I'm not saying that it's they're
all fake. And I'm not saying that John D's did
everything fake. Like I said, he was an understood polymath.
He was doing true alchemy. Now to what level was
it more for show and to what level of it
was what we would now call just chemistry, and to
what level of it was for spiritual things? We can

(02:57:42):
have that debate that the cows come home, right. I'm
saying that two things can be equally true at the
same time. Somebody can be a quote unquote religious guy
and still be a grifter who's full of shit. There's
tons of pastors of the Christian variety that I would
call grifters and hoaxers, even though they're speaking out of
the Bible.

Speaker 3 (02:58:01):
Things can be accurate at the same time.

Speaker 2 (02:58:03):
What's his name out of Texas.

Speaker 4 (02:58:05):
Copeland, Olstein, TD Jakes. I mean, look, we got we
could run a list a list of them, and there
are tons of them. On the other side of things,
two things can be accurate at the same time.

Speaker 3 (02:58:16):
Evil versus good.

Speaker 4 (02:58:18):
Yes, that conversation does play into the grifter and hoaxer conversation,
but it's not necessarily like one to one on that.

Speaker 3 (02:58:25):
Sometimes you could do both.

Speaker 2 (02:58:27):
I agree. I'm not saying that every magician is back
in a thousand with all of their rituals. I'm not
saying that because I think that it's all a process
of trial and error and there's probably a lot of
you know, look over there, so I can manipulate over here.
For sure, there is that.

Speaker 4 (02:58:44):
And Crowley, I'm not even saying that he wasn't practicing
real magic with a k dark shit which, by his
own admission of who he was seeking out, he wasn't
trying to talk to angels in God.

Speaker 3 (02:58:54):
He was trying to talk to demons and the devil.
Those are his words, not mine.

Speaker 2 (02:58:57):
The most eagle man to ever exist, by his own emission,
right now, that being said, he was also full of
shit to a degree, and the Battle of blythe Road
will show you that. Sure, for all your incantations and
hand sigils and a Noochian words, you're saying, you still
got a fucking roundhouse like it doesn't matter. So I'm
saying like it there is a level of bullshit to

(02:59:17):
be associated with it. But also I believe he was
doing real dark magic, so both can be true at
the same time. Right, So, if if any of these
gentlemen are really doing any kind of real dark magic,
is it silly to assume that they were able to
create and pull some information from that other side? If

(02:59:38):
they really are doing real magic, is it really that
crazy that they would have, I don't know, come up
with a fucking alphabet to speak of the angels.

Speaker 4 (02:59:47):
I'm with you, but I wouldn't have called these entities
speaking to them angels. If they're pulling from the other side,
it's not angels that they're pulling it from.

Speaker 2 (02:59:55):
Well, not from your understanding.

Speaker 4 (02:59:57):
Not from the understanding of the majority of the real
religious world, not just Christians, not just Jews, not just Muslims.

Speaker 2 (03:00:03):
Most people would say, we're going to have a conversation
with a fella tonight who's going to disagree with you.

Speaker 3 (03:00:08):
Yeah, that's fine, that's fine, we can agree to disagree.

Speaker 4 (03:00:10):
And I'm also very curious to hear his standpoint on it,
where he got his start from, where he get his
training in this matter.

Speaker 3 (03:00:16):
But I cannot wait for the conversation.

Speaker 2 (03:00:18):
Yeah, yeah, And my point is is that if somebody
says that they are calling upon angels, right, whether no
matter what you think of angels or not, right, But
if he says that he's calling on angels and he
actually is using certain terms angelic terms Gabriel or Michael
or who Gadriel or whatever the fuck their names are, right, Like,
if he really is calling upon certain angels doing the ritual,

(03:00:41):
and the ritual goes through, if it wasn't angels, then
what is it? And why would a demon allow themselves
to be called an angel in that sense?

Speaker 4 (03:00:53):
So why would a demon who works in deception and
lies allow himself to be called by another name and
carry out the task at hand to further his own means?

Speaker 3 (03:01:05):
Why?

Speaker 2 (03:01:05):
Why, in fact, is there any evidence that And I
don't know, I'm just asking you, but is there any
evidence of an angel ever being called upon, but it
was actually a demon in disguise.

Speaker 4 (03:01:19):
Well, quite clearly, humans are not supposed to call upon angels.
If the Lord sends an angel to do a task
or something, that's one thing a human calling upon an
angel for intercession.

Speaker 3 (03:01:31):
That's there's no point to that.

Speaker 2 (03:01:33):
Interesting, Okay. I do have one more video that I
did want to show. There is a person that believes
they have cracked the Voyage manuscript. All right, how does
the TikTok do with it?

Speaker 3 (03:01:46):
What you will?

Speaker 2 (03:01:47):
It's a person, it's a woman. She believes that she
cracked it. She's trying to publish a book on it.
And anyway, it's it's interesting. Let's see what she has
to say. It's only three less than three minutes long,
two and a half minutes, but I'll see what she
says here.

Speaker 6 (03:02:04):
I'm Kayla, and I translated the Pointage Manuscript. I wanted
to tell everyone who liked, supported and started following my content,
thank you so much. I promise you I'm not making
this up. I did have a lot of stuff posted
on academia. A lot of it I did take down
because people started copying my work and trying to pass
it off as their own and I just so many
times in history women have like figured something out and

(03:02:25):
then mentor around and trying to take credit for it.

Speaker 3 (03:02:27):
And I promise you.

Speaker 6 (03:02:28):
I have proof, and all I need is the right
person to look over my work, sign my book deal
and I will.

Speaker 3 (03:02:33):
Release all of it.

Speaker 6 (03:02:34):
I promise you. It fits. And I've even checked it
on AI with you know, my AI, my you know,
friends and family had them look it up and it fits,
I promise. Anyway, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
And I'll go over something, you know, just because I'm
hiding in my car right now for my kids, so

(03:02:56):
I wanted to go over another thing. These pages that
we were talking thinking about with the alignment, what the
what these are next to it are actually the lunar
mansion cycles. And apparently I'm not a professional. By the way,
I wasn't an expert in this. This is what I
found out from my translations. So if I'm wrong about

(03:03:18):
some historical context, just now, I wasn't a professional. But apparently,
according to my research, it matches ancient lunar calendars from Mesopotamia, Egypt, India,
China and others. Okay, each other's words actually stand for
certain meanings explain meanings like sacred initiation cycle, beginning, the

(03:03:42):
opening right of divine anointing, you know, divine waters flowing, baptism.

Speaker 3 (03:03:49):
Cleansing, you know.

Speaker 6 (03:03:50):
So each day it is supposed to be like a
cycle of how we go on through the month.

Speaker 3 (03:03:55):
When there's and I'm giving you this one.

Speaker 6 (03:03:57):
This is when there's more day hours of the night hours.
This one when there's more night hours than day, like
when there's longer nights and shorter days. So yeah, basically
I'm going to just give you like the nights one
through seven it's an initiation and preparation, oil cleansing, growth.

(03:04:17):
Nights eight through fourteen is union, revelation, fire stars gates,
Nights fifteen to twenty one ascent healing, wisdom, and nights
twenty two to twenty eight is divination, rebirth return. So
that's for the moon cycles, that's what that's for. And
I wanted to give you a little more. I want
to start teaching the basic teachings and going back to
the beginning, starting on the new moon. This is not

(03:04:39):
for everyone. This isn't for people who can't put a
flame to the darkest corners in their life. This isn't
for people who can't accept something that might be different
from what they've been taught their whole life. You know,
some people can't accept the fact that you've been drinking
gasoline your whole life when you thought it was water,
if that makes any sense anyway. Again, I'm just gonna

(03:05:02):
keep posting and talking about my translations until the right
person looks at my translations to verify it so I
get my book deal.

Speaker 5 (03:05:07):
And I really really.

Speaker 6 (03:05:08):
Appreciate you guys. Like I said, I did figure this out.
I've had imposter syndrome. I don't think I was smarter
than other people. I just so happened to have a
certain set of knowledge when I saw something in the
voyage clicked in my head. And that's a whole different story.
But yeah, thank you so much for following my content.
I appreciate it so much. And uh, I'm really excited
to share this week.

Speaker 2 (03:05:27):
Okay. So I really just wanted to share that. That
is from a TikTok account called family Living for for
four and every time I tried to search for anything,
I always like to search, you know, whether it be
the Internet or Instagram or chat YOUBT or TikTok, or
read it or whatever to try and collect as much
YouTube or whatever, try and collect as much information as

(03:05:48):
I possibly can. And every time I tried to type
in the voyage manuscript, it was always this person that
was being shared in like the most in regards to
some of her research. So she doesn't go super deep into,
you know what, what she has discovered, but she's she
believes that they're essentially like kind of like uh like

(03:06:11):
dealing with like moon, the moon calendar and astrology in
that sense for for women and something along those lines.
I'm not even sure if I one hundred percent stand
it or understand it, but she says.

Speaker 3 (03:06:22):
She just encoders either for the records.

Speaker 2 (03:06:25):
She says that she maybe she's not good at you know,
saying it.

Speaker 4 (03:06:30):
She even said multiple times if I'm wrong on this,
and like I'm not an expert, I just have like
a certain knowledge that's for another day.

Speaker 2 (03:06:36):
It's like, oh, uh, well, you got to start somewhere,
you know.

Speaker 4 (03:06:39):
Right with AI by her own emission, Yeah, I mean,
AI is no different than getting information from the internet.

Speaker 2 (03:06:46):
Bro, you got to come to that understanding.

Speaker 3 (03:06:49):
No, No, we talked about this earlier.

Speaker 4 (03:06:51):
AI will just give you whatever the most searched history
results of that thing is whether they're actually factly based.
And what all the scholars who of multiple different language
sets and multiple different culture sets have said about this
book versus what AI says that most people googled about
this book, that we're talking two different conversations.

Speaker 2 (03:07:09):
I'm not I'm not saying that you should only be
pulling it from chat GPT. I'm saying pull it from
multiple sources. That's why I just mentioned ten different sources
that I looked for.

Speaker 3 (03:07:18):
She she the woman in question, not you, sir.

Speaker 4 (03:07:21):
She is saying that most of her translations comes from
some knowledge that she can't talk about or AI.

Speaker 2 (03:07:27):
Well, and most people that are trying to depict what's
written in this voyage manuscript is it's only going to
come from AI. It's the only thing that's going to
find certain patterns. It's the only thing you got ancient
language experts that aren't able to understand what it's saying.
So why not put it up to large language models,

(03:07:48):
which literally are AI to try and understand, you know,
fragments of sentences or what did this mean in correlation
with this other sentence? And so I get it. I'm
not I don't. I don't If somebody's trying to use
AI to try and be able to translate something, that's
I don't see a problem with that. That's you said
it earlier that if this is what AI was created for.

Speaker 4 (03:08:09):
Yes, and I agree with that, But they've also had
experts use AI for this purpose and it still came
up short.

Speaker 2 (03:08:17):
Well, then leave it up to everybody else. So just
because the experts can't figure something out, then nobody should
even look into it.

Speaker 4 (03:08:24):
No, No, I'm saying that, and I'm not even saying
that everything she's saying is incorrect. I just I have
a hard time believing as she literally, by her own emission,
is saying that she's not an expert, she's not a historian,
that this is from some knowledge quote unquote that she
just has that she can't really talk about because it's
just she saw an image and it just clicked with
her and she just knows things. It's like, yep, yeah, Well,

(03:08:47):
a couple of people on TikTok that say certain things
like that.

Speaker 2 (03:08:50):
If it's a religious thing, it's almost like or not
religious but spiritual kind of thing, you know, Like you
always say, well, how do you get to the to
the core of what is truth and what's not. Then
you test the spirit. That's a faithful given sentiment that
you're saying. And so I think that other people that
are not of the religious flavor are also going to
use their own testing of the spirit in some kind

(03:09:13):
of sense. I believe that that's what she's trying to allude to.

Speaker 3 (03:09:16):
I wasn't trying to take that religious, but sure, Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:09:20):
I'm just throwing that out. I'm I'm trying to give
her a little bit of credence. I'm not even saying
that she's right at all. I'm just I know how
to look at both sides without just automatically discrediting it. Okay,
but she believes that she that they are lunar mansion cycles,
which is an astrology thing. Each glyph marks a night,

(03:09:41):
each night a key. Okay, anyway, just want to throw
that out there. Nobody has a clue about what the
fuck is going on with this whole voyage manuscript. So
I thought, I'm going to bring everything that I can
possibly find to the table. I figured, Hey, let's save
the newest thing for last. It's not even saying that
like she's absolute that any of these people are absolutely right.

(03:10:02):
It's more so of like, we're going to give you
all the information that we could find on the topic
and present it to you and not not technically discredit
or disregard any of them because none of them have
been proven true.

Speaker 4 (03:10:14):
So we literally can't discredit anybody on this one. Nothing
has been known about this book other than the carbon
dating of it to say that it was written in
the day and age that it was alleged to have
been written. Yeah, with a varying degree of faith, we
can say that, right, Yes, there is a greater than
zero percent chance because carbon dating is so flawed, and yeah, yeah, yeah, fine, fine, fine,

(03:10:36):
But through most of our understanding, we can assert that
this book was written in the fourteenth to fifteenth century. Okay,
And at least Rudolph the Second his doctor, had his
signature in it, so at least at one point in
time it was within the court of Rudolph the Second.
Was it John D's and Network Kelly, possibly, but not
necessarily right, Just because they happen to be in Rudolph's

(03:10:58):
court at one time does not mean that this book
was absolutely their handy work. Was it made by them? Possibly?
Did it pre date them. Also, possibly, how do you
end up in that random spot in nineteen in the
nineteen twenties when your boy Voyets first found it and
decided to do some digging into it on his own.

Speaker 3 (03:11:17):
There's a lot of questions.

Speaker 4 (03:11:18):
Unfortunately those don't look like they're gonna get answered anytime soon.

Speaker 2 (03:11:23):
Right, And And to be honest, these are kind of
my favorite episodes, the ones that the mysteries are still
alive and nobody's really cracked the code or anything yet,
because it just opens the imagination up in every single direction. Bro,
That's why I wanted to go, like, all right, here's
this spiritual girl. She believes she's tapping into something. Let's
bring up John d and fucking see if you know

(03:11:43):
if he tapped into it with Enoch. And let's bring
up you know, cryptographers and scientists and AI and hammer
it from every single direction to see which one, you know, uh,
feels the best when it's going down your throat, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (03:11:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:11:58):
Feel though I don't know. I honestly, I have no idea.
I don't have one idea that is better than the
other for this one. And so that's why we leave
it up to all of the good cult members out there,
let us know what you think. What do you think?

Speaker 3 (03:12:12):
I mean?

Speaker 2 (03:12:13):
Was it Inochian? Is it gibberish? Is it a nothing burger?
Was it a hoax that Voinage himself just created from
this fancy paper back in nineteen twelve or whatever year
it was. It's like, what do you think that's I
don't know. It's a mystery. And maybe some people believe
that their thoughts about it are more correct than others.

(03:12:38):
You know, A wise philosopher once said, you don't know
what you don't know. Okay, so let's just keep that
in mind. But Jacob any parting thoughts with you, sir? Yeah,
Like Jonathan was saying, let us know what you think
about this.

Speaker 3 (03:12:51):
Was it real?

Speaker 4 (03:12:51):
Was it fake? Is there the trail of breadcrumbs of
truth in this? Is it completely a hoax from the
old days? We want to let know what you the
good members think about it. The best place to let
us know where you could go to let us know
that information. Sorry misspoke on that one would be too
Please hit the five stars, hit the shares of licenscribes
to comments, leave a post, leave review, leave a comment,

(03:13:12):
Let us do what you think about this one and
share this episode with your.

Speaker 3 (03:13:15):
Friends and family, share it everywhere. Here's the deal.

Speaker 4 (03:13:17):
The more activity the OLGA see across all of our
listening platforms, the more we get promoted to pour potential
listeners who could have become potential cult members like the
rest of you. Fine ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 3 (03:13:25):
Why you're ready to go.

Speaker 4 (03:13:26):
Check out Meta Mysteries, Jonathan's other show and getting the
same level of respect over there with the five star
reviews and the positivity in the comments. Especially if you
love to this episode, Go check out Meta Mysteries, Come.

Speaker 3 (03:13:34):
Check out the Cage to Night, and come join each
of us for.

Speaker 4 (03:13:36):
Individual patrons that we host every Wednesday at at nine
pm Central.

Speaker 3 (03:13:39):
And we thank if everybody he's already gone and done so.

Speaker 2 (03:13:41):
And when that being said, this was another beautiful episode.
I'm the Cult of Conspiracy and my name's Jonathan.

Speaker 3 (03:13:48):
I'm jacobing.

Speaker 2 (03:13:48):
There's one very important, extremely vital piece of information we
need you to learn just as soon as humanly possible.

Speaker 4 (03:14:31):
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to go to Adam and Eve dot com right now, Amaim,
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#889- The Voynich Manuscript | The Most Mysterious Book in History

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