Conspiracy Garden: Occult Crimes, Rituals in Castles, & The Church of Aquino

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And yet I asked you, it's not an alien forsha already.
I'm welcome back to the show. Got another good one
plan for you today. Returning to the show. She's an
independent researcher. She's the host of Stigeon Charters podcast. Nick's
welcome back to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hey, thanks for having me back. I had a great
time last time, and I'm sure I'll have an equally
great time this time. So it's not eady to be
back on the on your show.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, yeah, again, just happy to have you here. Like
I said, I mean, I got a lot of good
feedback from the last show you were on, and plus
it was just a lot of fun. And you know,
I do want to tell you because before we got
rolling here, you told me that there's some noisy stuff
happening around you. So don't worry about that. We're going

(01:02):
to keep going regardless it hopefully it won't show up
in the in the recording. And uh, but my experience
here is like that kind of stuff happens a lot
surrounding shows that that like I'll just say, like dark
forces don't want you to have right, I mean that

(01:22):
sounds kind of like a stretch maybe, but like, I
had this happen with Gary Wayne, and it was abundantly
clear that there were forces at play that did not
want us to have a show.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah. Yeah, you see a lot of shows have technical
difficulties and such when covering these topics too. It's these yeah, yeah,
right right.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
That's exactly what it is. And you know, with him,
it was you know, we're talking about the dark side
of reality. So and I mean, you know, with him,
it was it was crazy. It was it was bizarre.
It's like I was two three seconds into the episode.
I was still in the intro, and some lady popped

(02:08):
up on his screen. They got into his computer. He
saw a lady on his screen screen and she cut
his connection. Wow, it got weird.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
That's yeah, that's wild.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
It got weird. And I had people knocking on my door.
Oh during the episode, just all kinds of crazy stuff happened.
It was like, you know, but he told me afterwards,
He's like, this happens to me. It happens to me
quite a bit. Because I was apologizing, you know, I
was like, I'm so sorry, Like this never happens. He's like, no,

(02:44):
it's okay. It's basically he was saying, you know, it's
basically it's the topics I think, yeah, what I gathered.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
So yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, you see it quite
often when topics such as these are covered.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah yeah, Well where or where do we go?

Speaker 2 (03:03):
So we left off last time talking about the different
types of Satanism out there, and obviously, you know, there's
probably way more than what I listed, but those were
some of the most known kinds, and even some of
those I wasn't aware of, and I wouldn't say they're
necessarily known, but we know a bit about them. So

(03:25):
so today I was going to pick up on ritual
homicide and touch on some different cases where there was
a called or satanic elements to it. So we will
start at ritual homicide, which are definition so okay. So
throughout history and across all cultures, the one practice common

(03:48):
to all religions is sacrifice, the most supreme form of
sacrifice being blood rituals human and animal. Symbolically, blood represents
both purity and impurity, the sacred and the profane, life
and death. The use of blood in ritualistics crimes is
more revealing than any other form of evidence, not to
be confused with blood pattern analysis so that's talking about

(04:11):
like crime scene, like when someone's murdered or killed, how
their blood splatters from the trauma that is blown to them.
So there have been cases where paulamiumbre practitioners, satanists, vampires,
and serial killers have been linked to ritual murders. Common
goals include the acquisition of power to manipulate events that

(04:33):
result in harm, healing, protection, initiation, transformation, gain knowledge, and
the ultimate goal of self deification. When investigating these types
of crimes, it's important to understand the perpetuator's belief system.
Arguments that these crimes are actually the result of this
third Dysfunctional or disenfranchised individuals are the result of Western

(04:55):
behavioral scientific theories which marginalize the fenders as deviant for others.
This perspective hinders the investigation, prosecution, and prevention of ritualistic
crimes and frankly, only helps the proponent sleep better at night.
Understanding the religious beliefs of the perpetrators is essential to
analyzing ritualistic crime. And that was from doctor Pearl or

(05:20):
doctor Don Pearl Mutter. She's in a cult crime specialist.
She She's been features on various shows talking about you
do you agree with her, I I do. I can't,
you know, I guess it would have to be like
I'd have to know her analysis case case by case.

(05:41):
But I think she she's onto something and she is
often attacked by, you know, people who don't think this
kind of thing exists. So but yeah, so she was
even on when we talked last time. I had mentioned
I believe the Satanic Temple had the Gray Faction website

(06:05):
where they would put like mental health professionals or people
who spoke about you know, uh, Satanic ritual abuse. They
would put them on blast and say it with pseudo
science and stuff like that. She's on their web page
as one of the people they attack, so.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Well, she must be doing something.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, so she's been around for for quite some time.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Is she now that that Satanic temple who's kind of
like against this lady? Are Is that in any relation
to like the one LaVey started?

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Now this one is Lucian Great Grieves does this one.
He's the one that has the weird thing going on
with his eye that I might have mentioned last time.
But yeah, it's it's different. It's the one they they
function in the same aspect as you know, like it's
more of a anarchy, you know, do what you do?

Speaker 1 (07:02):
That?

Speaker 2 (07:02):
What that will? You know, they just use Satan as
a symbol. They don't actually worship him, but yet they
have a Bathhmet statue with children surrounding him that they
like the place in different places in protest, like I
think down in like I don't know if it was
an Alabama or Arkansas courthouse. They put it out there
for a while. So but they have some similar beliefs.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
But publicly they say that they don't believe in an
actual entity, correct, right, And I know we had this
conversation last time. But again, like if you don't believe
in an entity, maybe Batha Met is not the best
symbol use. I mean because elphis Levi when he sort
of crafted that symbol, he had two entities in mind,

(07:47):
uh Sami o and and Lilith h from what I've
from what I've gathered, and you know, Lilith goes back
to the uh the epic of Gilgames. She's a very
old old entity. So you know there's where you were
you going to, where you're going to stand, where you
draw the line in the sand here, like you believe
in these.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Entities or not yeah, because yeah, because it's like are
you are you really just using it as a symbol.
Why would you use something as a symbol that you
don't even believe in them? I mean, I get the
you know, the rebellious you know, look they want to have,
but at the same time, it's like, well, how much

(08:27):
are you going to use that if that's the case,
Like it's strange. It seems like it's almost like a
tongue in cheek thing, like like an an occult thing,
you know, the profane don't know. Yeah, it's like for
the initiated.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
And that they'll be the first to tell you they're
not using these symbols to appear edgy mm hmm. But
when you look into the origin of the symbols, even
the pentagram, like I've got research right now that I'm
still kind of looking at that suggests that goes back
to Venus, Ishtar and Nana. So I don't know, these

(09:07):
these entities seem to be right around the corner or
standing behind these these symbols in the shadows.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Oh yeah, for sure, represented by them mm hmm. Yeah.
So yeah, it's it's definitely suspicious, I think so. And
even if you know who knows. Maybe the lower levels
don't know until they get to the higher levels, just
you know, much like they talk about, you know, in freemasonry,
no one knows, and the ones that do know, obviously

(09:33):
are sworn the silence. So yeah, I did mention earlier
when I just read that Paul My Paula my own bray.
Are you familiar with that? Okay, I'm just gonna read
a quick little blurb about it because I will talk
about that in one of the cases coming up, but

(09:57):
just for anybody that's not familiar with it. It's in
African diasporic religion that development Cuba during the late nineteenth
or early twentieth century twentieth century. It draws heavily upon
the traditional Congo religion of Central Africa, with additional influences
taken from Catholicism and from Spiritism. Paul is one of

(10:17):
the three major Afric Cuban religions present on Cuba, the
other two being Santa Ria and the other one being
I think it's pronounced Abakua. So it is similar kind
of to like voodoo because it does have that Catholicism
element to it. But they do operate, they do operate differently, so,

(10:41):
but I just wanted to briefly touch on that because
there's going to be a case that involves some of
that later on.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Here Cuba was that Cuba.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
So it's actually Central Africa, but it it came to Cuba. Yeah,
so it's an African religion that developed in Cuba during
the nineteenth century. So yeah, I developed why while they
were on Cuba.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
So okay, well that's that's interesting. I mean, I think
that might be the case too with like Haiti and
the Dominican Republic. I think that some of those more
niche religions that they have there came from Africa.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Mm hm.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
So I'm just.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Spreading it's also but it's not a religion, it's a
I guess it'd be folk magic.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Is who oh yeah?

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Who Do is good point. So is another one of
those If anybody hasn't seen the movie Skeleton Key, it's
a great movie and it and it touches on who
do Have you seen it?

Speaker 1 (11:43):
No? No, I haven't, But I've heard who Do practitioners
on interviews talking about what they do and yeah, I
mean it's it's black magic. Oh yeah, but they'll say
that they they don't use it. For dark purposes, which okay,
that's fine. You know, I'm not here to judge with that,
but it is it's there's a lot of darker aspects

(12:08):
to it, but apparently it can be used for good,
that's what they'll say.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, it's what's interesting is there is also the Pennsylvania
Dutch who do pow wow, which is a folk magic.
And what's interesting with that is they also use what
is it called the Six Books of Moses, which is
which who do practitioners use as well?

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, yeah, and you won't hear that talked about a lot.
The book of Book of Moses seems to be on
a blacklist. You know. I haven't talked about it either
because I don't know how I feel about it. I
don't know that Moses wrote that, so I won't promote it.
I think I think there's people on either side of
the argument did Moses actually write this? But it's a

(12:51):
book of magic and spells, and I have a pow
Wow book with the Pennsylvania Dutch because I was curious
about that, and it's written by a guy who was Christian.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Mm hmm, yep. Yeah, so yeah, it's definitely it's definitely interesting.
So but they also use you know, the you know,
banishing hexagrams and all all that stuff. So and the
Pennsylvania Dutch stay that they're healing in the name of God,

(13:22):
but at the same time it seems might be kind
of going over a crossing the line a boundary on
that point. So but yeah, and I know it's.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Such a it's such a gray area. Like I think
I've told this on the podcast before. It's like I
looked into that because it's like it it represents greater
Appalachian folklore for me. So I got the pow Wow
book and I didn't want to talk about it for
a long time on the show because it's such a
gray area because it's it's a book of magic written

(13:55):
by supposedly written by a Christian. I don't I still
don't necessarily know how to approach.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
That on here.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Right. Well another thing is too, when you when you
brought up whether Moses wrote that or not, it's I
like that very much too, Like King Solomon, like you know,
people think he had a magic ring and the you know,
the season was you know, controlling Demons, which we don't
really know that because that but the lesser key of
Solomon was wrote in the medieval times, and so we

(14:26):
don't know. We know he had I don't know what,
like two hundred three hundred concubines and he allowed them
to worship their paying gods, and then he became involved
in that. So you know, it's kind of like, well,
he could have, but we don't really know. Yeah, you know,
it's one of those great areas where you could say, well,
I can see that, but we don't necessarily have any

(14:49):
proof on that.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, I know, maybe you know there's there's there's a
long awaited disclaimer here somewhere. I feel rising up in
me right now. It's like I should have said this
a long time ago. But like you know, as most
people who listen to this show, no, I am a Christian,
and what I'm going to say further is that but

(15:14):
or and additionally, I do not want to push people
towards the occult. I do not want to seem to
promote the occult. But I'm a very curious person, and
like what we're talking about here with Solomon, I do
wonder about that because when I read through the Bible,

(15:35):
the Old Testament, what I gathered is that he did
allow these foreign influences into his kingdom. I mean with
wide open doors. I think he had hundreds of wives
and they were all pagan.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
And he even made sacrifices.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
The molog It said, yeah, and he allowed these wives
to set up temples to their gods and goddesses. I
think even Ishtar, who I research heavily. Well some times.
I mean I've backed off of that because it gets
weird when you start looking into stuff, it gets weird.
But that's a side story. But no, he he did
allow these influences in. But I guess the question is

(16:10):
did he actually practice it himself? I don't know. Yeah, right,
seems like he could have for sure he was aware
of the stuff.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yep, yep. Yeah. It's just another one of those mysteries
that we don't really have an answer to.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
So, and I'll be honest, it's a lack of research
on my part.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Except the Vatican Library. They might have something on.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
It, right right, right, I you know I should. I've
always had it in the back of my mind to
go research Solomon more in that whole ordeal, and I
just have it yet, So I don't know. I don't
really know what the deal is there because I haven't
looked into it, but like those Keys of Solomon, I mean,
if he didn't, you know, developed that, who do you

(16:55):
think did? Is it like the Book of Moses perhaps
maybe where somebody came along later and claim to be
Moses or claim to be Solomon and put.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
That they claim to be Solomon or not. I'd have
to look. I have to refresh my memory on that again.
But it seems at the very least there was the
assumption that whoever wrote this was saying could have been
you know, massqu reading as Solomon, or they had knowledge

(17:27):
of what Solomon was doing and put it into a book.
So one of the two.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
So yeah, interesting.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Okay, So now we're going to talk about types of
perpetrators associated with ritual list of comicide. So the first
is true believers. And I'm sorry if my voice cracks,
like with my allergies and sinuses.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Good, I'm over here. I'm kind of I'm over here
kind of laughing to myself because I have a very
potent feeling that the comments are going to be alive
for this. Everybody all the Solomon Uh oh.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, we're gonna have a big debate here. Yeah, So
true believers are religious practitioners who commit murder because the
act fits into and or is required by their particular
belief system. These individuals are involved in ritualistic commicide because
the ideology, rituals, and tenants of their beliefs require them
to do so. Ritualistic commicides carried out by true believers

(18:28):
reflect a serious knowledge of the particular theology, a high
level skill, and meticulous attention to detail, meaning, accurate symbolism,
play state selections of victims. Ritual homicide carried out by
true believers are are modern acts of human sacrifice. The
perpetrator considers the murder to be a sacred act and

(18:49):
the crime scene will reflect this. The purpose of the
sacrifices to increase personal power and or fulfill the requirements
of the belief system. True believers are the most dangerous
perpetrators of any kind of religious founds because of the
degree of their commitment to their beliefs, their disregard for
civil authority, and their non traditional worldview that permits them

(19:10):
to murder without remorse. So these are people that are
committing their ritos comic side for whatever the religious belief
system is. And we can also see this, you know,
from both sides, I should say, because you have people

(19:31):
who are into these dark dark magic, dark religion as occult.
But then you also have like people a religion of
Abrahamic religions doing it in they say in the name
of God, and they're like, you know, killing people. So
you've seen it kind of in both on both sides
of the spectrum.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
So just yeah, well it's like, who are you going
to attribute the voices in your head to?

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yes, exactly right, you know, it's it's.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Going to depend on the perspective of the individual murderer
or killer. I guess in this case, these people are guilty,
then whatever notion they have in their head, it's it's
what they attribute that to. So for some people, if
you're Pazuzu, it's going to be Pazuzu, the guy who

(20:21):
went by Pazuzu, right, and he because he said he
was in touch with the demon Pau. That's who he
attributed his stuff to. I think I didn't follow that
whole case, but I didn't know somebody who knew that guy.
Side note, we could talk about this another time. But
so yeah, that's that's what I think I mean. And
then and once once these cases get in the courtroom,

(20:42):
everything gets all jumbled up, right because now you've got
a law you're telling you don't say this, say that.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yes, yeah, because they didn't. I think I mentioned the
last time. You know a lot of times like they're like,
you know, between the lawyers and legal experts are like, okay,
we don't want to talk about this part because it's
going to muddy the waters. You know, it can contaminate
the jury with you know, thinking this person, you know,

(21:08):
some dark practitioner, and then you get into like, well,
what's freedom of religion, and you know, public panic, you know,
all kinds of things, and I think you know that's
a lot of the reasons why they don't mention it
is because a, if it's legit happening, they don't want
the public to know and be you know, if it

(21:29):
could you know sway the jury one way or the other,
whether you're the defense or the prosecution, you don't want that.
So it seems like they tend to try to stay
away from that kind of evidence or hearstay I guess
you would say, because you don't always have evidence. But
it's like very much like in Dave McGowan's Program to

(21:49):
Kill It talks about all the parts of these cases
that had Satanic elements that wasn't publicized for the public,
like you know, in the media, although there were times
or a period of time when it was more prevalent
to be talked about in the media, like during what
they call the Satanic Panic, which again I agree there's
a lot of hoaxes out there, but I you know,

(22:11):
disagree that they were all hoaxes, Like there's no way, Yeah,
there's no way.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
I feel like that that was a deeper effort at
a propaganda campaign to make people think that it was
a Yeah, it was a total sigh. And like, you know,
speaking of Gary Wayne, like I'm pretty sure he mentioned
something along these lines to me, which was we were
talking about Nuremberg and the Nazis and you know, Churchhill

(22:37):
and some of the Americans got together and basically they
decided they decided not to talk about the occult aspect
of the Nazis for several reasons, but one being they
didn't want them to have the ability to claim insanity
m hm. So they left all the occult stuff out
so they couldn't get off on insanity.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
And probably partly, if you think about it, is because
you know paper clip. I mean, we ended up like
using a lot of their you know.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Uh that was.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
And then they had m K it MK often, which
was an offshoot of m K Search and the CIA
and everything. They were like talking to mediums, you know,
looking into actual projection, dark magic, occult stuff like you know,
and it only makes sense, you know, because mk aulture

(23:35):
kind of came off from World War Two and if
this is an offshoot and they're like looking into the cult,
you know, the Nazis practiced the cult, you know.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
And yeah, right, And I like the point there you
made about like we're talking about styops. You brought you
brought that word into this, and it's perfect because you
see a major sy op urmber big time because they
wanted all these Nazis, so they had to show the
public something. They had to get to the public what

(24:08):
they wanted essentially, which was you know, kind of like
a a town Square trial where everybody in the world
was going to be watching that while they while they're
they're silently slipping these guys into our programs over here.
And I mean it's a very similar siop to the
Satanic panic. In my opinion, they had something.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
To hide didn't in Nuremberg only resulted in like eleven executions.
I remember being surprised that it was so low.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
It's low, then you know, it's it's one of these things.
It's like they they changed the narrative of they changed
the details every couple of years on this because sometimes
you'll look those numbers of the Nazis. They actually tried fluctuate.
So I think last time I checked it was they
only tried like two hundred and sixteen. That was the

(25:02):
number they gave. But that number, it fluctuates between like
two hundred and two thousand. I don't think they actually
tried two thousand, but I've seen.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
People say that.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
But like the thing is, and I've said this before,
but I'll just say it again. You know, at the
height of the war, there were something like eight or
eight point five million members of the Nazi Party m SO,
and we only tried you know, a couple hundred of them. Yeah, yeah,
you know what happened to the rest of them, Well,

(25:34):
they went to the governments, They went to secret progress.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Or mag or mang Dealo was it South America?

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yea, he did, he went to He certainly did. And
you know there's proof of that. But there's something you're
reading there about and they brought up symbolism and homicides,
and I don't know, like, did most of the cases
you looked into display some sort of symbol of.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, there was definitely, yeah, symbolism in there,
or acts carried out in a ritualistic way to their
beliefs or what they believe. Yes, yeah, so yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
That's what I'm finding more and more through through research here,
is that the use of symbols by occultists, you know,
and of course that that's like people are going to
be like, well, yeah, of course, but I mean, you know,
it's it's it's deeper than I think people realize because
and maybe if this comes up later, I'll talk about
it more. But I've been researching this order of the trapezoid.

(26:42):
It was Aquino's order, I think, I think Levey started
it and it kind of, I don't know, it went
underground for a little bit or something, and then Aquino
brought it back. But it's based on the trapazoid, It's
based on a lot of things. It's based on the
work of Lovecraft as well. But there's there was a

(27:03):
talk that Levey gave where he was he was talking
about the trapezoid. He was talking about angles. He said
angles themselves were powerful enough to sum and entities.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Well you got the order of nine angles.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, but he's he's literally talking about angles in symbols. Yeah,
oh yeah, and how magicians can can utilize those for
different purposes.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Oh yeah, and that definitely makes sense. I don't know
if I mentioned this in a previous episode, but it's
either on TV or what's the other one? Plex is
a dark song and that is a according to most
like magic practitioners or occultist was very accurate in depicting

(27:50):
the Abermeln ritual. But you see the symbols they draw
on the floor that they have to stay within these symbols.
Like it's a very drawn out ritual. Crowley try to
do it, but didn't complete it because I believe they
even mentioned it. I don't know if it's six months
or eight months long ritual. Like they even showed the

(28:12):
girl in it, like you can't leave, you can't eat,
and you see her, you know, she irritates on herself
because she cannot leave that symbol.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Can't leave the circle essentially or whatever symbol it is, yes, yes, yeah, yeah,
I think Crowley was was somewhat notorious for that starting
things that he couldn't finish. Like I don't think it
was just.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
That that living open portals, Yeah right.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
I mean I don't remember what working he was doing
at the balls King House in locke Ness, but he
didn't finish that one either because he got called back
to England by the leader of the OTO or the
Golden Down. I can't remember the details. But and so yeah,

(29:00):
like you said, like there's that whole rumor now that
the portal was was left open and a lot of
people say that's where the monster comes from and all that.
It's interesting, but I mean the point is that he
didn't finish it. Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yep. And just one more briefing about symbols is you
know you see more and more of it, like within
the media or you know, businesses using stuff using the symbols,
and you can't I can't help but wonder you know,
you have to charge a symbol, and the more it's shown,
I would have to believe, you know, the more charge

(29:34):
it gives it, even though it's unbeknowns to the public.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
So what perfect way to do it, you know, then
you know, do it in such a secretive way.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, that's that's so key. I mean I think they
do it in movies, they do it Super Bowls, any
of these where you have a lot of eyes on
something there's and people are wising up to that. So
that's a great point.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah. So next I want to touch on true criminals.
And true criminals are individuals who use the call as
an excuse to justify or rationalize the criminal behavior. They
are not committed to the belief system, but rather to
the criminal action. True criminals are not as concerned about
the details and are not connected to any organized group
or specific tradition. Therefore, any symbolic evidence will be unique

(30:25):
to that person. Now, example would be self styled Satanists
such as Richard Ramirez. They're not seen as true believers
since their primary interests usually the acquisition of personal power,
of material gain or gratification through criminal activity, rather than
spiritual Satanic worship. So we can see how some people
like you know, serial killers and stuff like, hey, I

(30:47):
kind of like this like satanic thing. It gives me
you know, a reason, you know, something to back up
why I'm doing this, you know, and it's telling me
it's okay because when you think of Satanism, you think
of acts, and I'm carrying out evil acts, so which,
you know, what a perfect religion for me to you know,
adopt off my satistic and twisted mind. So this doesn't

(31:14):
mean Ramirez was not conducting ritualistic crimes, as his crimes
involved obvious ritualistic activities and containing Satanic symbolism, and he
clearly identified himself as a Satanist, but he wasn't committing
the crime solely because he was a Satanist. So this
was a perversion and obsession he had, so it wasn't

(31:35):
he would have been doing this even if he wasn't,
is I guess my point here?

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah? And I think too that these entities, because I
believe they're real, I believe in a spirit world. I think,
oh yeah, oh, I know, we agree on that. But
I think that these entities can kind of guide people
into certain discoveries and certain cult practices, like I think

(32:02):
you could be guided into becoming a Satanist in his.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Case, Oh yeah, yeah for sure.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
And like I mean, I'm just gonna say this. I'm
not trying to come down hard on Satan Satanists. I'm
not trying to do that, because that's I don't know
that would be fair. But what I'm trying to find
here is an example of Satanism where they actually don't
worship an entity. Because that's what I hear, I hear.

(32:33):
I've always heard for years people have said, oh, you
know that these people don't actually worship Satan. Right, it's
about humanism, it's about becoming your own god. Okay, that's
what people say. But I haven't found any evidence of
that when I've looked into any of the Satanic orders
that I have, like the Temple of Set, for instance,
they say they might say one thing publicly, but in

(32:56):
their notes, in their workings, in their own documents, they say,
you know, like the temple things.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
No one's looking at Yeah, looking at the finer details, yes.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Right, they they you find entities there that they're into,
like like disorder of the Trapezoid. It's it's a it's
part of the Temple of Set. And they literally say
that it's chief mission is is like has to do
with the Prince of Darkness. They use the Prince of Darkness.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
They say that, you're right, I've seen that. Yeah, and
no one can tell me. I truly believe that, like
a knot was he had Nazi ideology, oh for sure
and beliefs. He might not have said it because that,
you know, they would have crucified him for that, and

(33:50):
he was you know, high up in the military and
they would not have been okay with that. But to
go over to Himmler's castle and to do they let
him do a ritual in the crypt. Yeah, in the
ritual crypt, Like.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
This is what I've this is what I've been looking
at recently. That's like, yeah, I actually have something here.
I don't want to derail us too hard. That's no,
You're absolutely right, That's that's what I've found too. What
a Quino has said and what he has kind of
told his order, so they kind of they kind of
echo this to what they'll say is that he was

(34:25):
interested in He wasn't interested in the Nazis. He was
interested in the the old Germanic romanticism.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
But let me you what that means, nice way of
putting it, Yeah, because that's where they got their ideology.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
For that's the occult revival that was happening in Germany
that the Nazis came out of exactly what you said.
They they they'll say that because that's a nice little term.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
German romanticism mayet pretty interested up where it sounds nicer, right.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
This was totally German occultism. And that's what I found
by looking into this, and like I I got this
theme right here. I'll show you this because you'll like this.
The you know Quinos he's passed now, right, but in
recent years, yeah, yeah, in in recent years, this grand

(35:14):
Master of the Order of the Trap is aid again,
this is for people listening, this is a sub sect
of the Order of Set, which is a Satanic order
that broke off of LaVey's group. Uh. Anyways, so this
Grandmaster gave an interview and he said it's this is

(35:34):
the quote right here. It's an order within the Temple
of Set. It's it is consecrated as an order of
knighthood dedicated to the Prince of Darkness and to the
protect protection of the Black Flame. He says that publicly
in an interview. There's a lot of interesting stuff here
that that night Order of the Knighthood part that's what

(35:59):
Himmler was doing at Vilsburg. He was reviving the Order
of the knighthood that he got from guys like gud
To von Least and uh, who's the other guy, He's
got a long name, your lots von Lebensfield. These are
the German occultists that inspired the Nazis. They were they
they wanted to bring back this kind of like a

(36:21):
an occult knights templar, a more occult knights templar. So anyways,
but you know, the High Priests himself says that on publicly.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Right, But yeah, that's not put out like mainstream because uh,
you know, too many people know about it and catch on. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, And and I'll add this to what Himmler was
doing there at Viblsburg, was was going back to symbolism, right.
He had carved the black sun symbol into the floors
and into some of the walls there. It's still there today.
I think that Aquino the more and more I look

(36:59):
at the to Morna see that Aquino was trying to
work with that black sun energy that Himmler was working with.
That's what that black flame part is about.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, didn't they have this the group, Himler's group or
whatever some of them have like those skull rings that
they had to get rid of, you know.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
They had to turn them back in upon death.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, So I always found that interesting, how funny they
were about that those being turned in.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah, well, they would consecrate and ritualistically power charge up
the ring itself. They did this with the flag too. Yeah,
they had a Nazi flag that they'd bring out for
all their events that had been consecrated by the blood
of fallen Nazis who there was some sort of revolt

(37:48):
they had before they came to power where some of
their Nazis were shot down and they took those guys
blood and like difted in the Nazi flag and throughout
the coming years the Reich, anytime they did something major,
they'd bring that concept.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
That's a blood ritual. Yes, example, perfect example, So I
think yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
And I think they were doing something similar with those
rings because the guys that there were runes on the
rings as well, and runes play a big part in
this order the trapezoid as well.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
So yeah, I mean and just real quick, I mean,
you know, talking about that Germanic what did you call
it that?

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yes, it was, well so's they they said they were
using the term uh, the family friendly term uh German romanticism.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Yes, thank you. So, but they could say the same
thing about Helena Lulaski because that's where she was getting her.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Stuff too, mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
So, and I think that since she was before Hitler,
I do think Hitler, you know, took some of the ideas,
especially the swast go, which at the time, you know,
was used all over the world and was a very
common symbol. But it sat flush and when the Nazis

(39:08):
adopted it, they rotated on its axis. But now any
swasakas looked at as bad because you know, people mist
interpret that. People don't know that. But it is also
interesting to me because it goes it's tilted counterclockwise, right.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
I don't remember which direction the tilt.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Was because if it is which I think, I think so,
I mean, yeah, I think yeah. I think it was
going which is winter shins, which is dark magic stuff
you can see like in Eyes Wide Shut, the red
priest guy. You know, he goes counterclockwise, because that's going

(39:51):
against nature's forces. That's you know, going backwards, you know,
against you know, life, life cycle, whatever. So but I
believe it is shifted kind of clockwise. And I also
thought that was interesting because that could be a Wittershin's thing.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Sure, yeah, I think either way, which either either direction,
they did shift it, and they did shift it for
a purpose.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yes, yeah, even if it's not that there's some type
of purpose behind that, for.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Sure, we're still I'm still chipping away at this. I
know other people have, like people more scholarly than myself,
that this whole origins of the swastika thing, it's it's
very it's a convoluted history that goes back, way, way
way back. Yes, but I mean even the Native Americans.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Were I believe.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
As as all the way up unto the nineteen hundred,
So I got it. I think that's where Bolotsky got it.
She she was using it as as a a spiritual
symbol that had been used by indigenous people for for
a very long time. Uh. Where I really start to
see it pop up is in the at the turn

(41:04):
of the century with this German romanticism, right, actually the
a k a. The The Occult, the Occult Revival of Germany,
the Thuley Society. Yeah, that was Rudolph Bonsabottendorf and Walter
Nauhaus that started that. They were using the swastika first,

(41:25):
well not first, but they started using it before before
the Nazis. But when the Nazis came in, you know,
they the Nazis came out of the Thuley Society, so
essentially they just kept the swastika. They straightened out the
edges and they did the tilt that you're talking about,
because when the Thuley was using it, it had rounded edges.

(41:46):
Interesting and just another fun fact with that, the Thuley
Society had a newspaper called Baiobacher. I think the when
the Nazis became the Nazis, of course they come out
of the Thuley Society, they kept the symbol, not only
the symbol, but they kept that newspaper too. They just

(42:08):
renamed it, so the Beobacher became the Nazis' newspaper, the
main one distributed around Germany. So it's it. But it
all goes back to a cult symbolism and cult orders.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
And the weirdest thing is like, and I don't know
if I mentioned it on your show, I've mentioned it
on my show, but my grandpa became an orphan at
the age of it was like fifteen. I think his
parents had died a couple of years apart. They were
older but one of the things he was able to
kind of scavenge away. I think he found it in

(42:42):
the floor brows because his family took everything and didn't
want anything to do with him. So he became an
orphan or award of the state. But it was a
lockett and it was of his parents before they were married,
because it had his mother's made it initials on the
front of the lockett and on the inside of the
locket was a picture of his mom and his dad
and on the back and so my grandpa was born

(43:02):
in nineteen twenty seven. He fought in World War Two,
so this is way before that. But on the back
in black Stones is a flush sitting swas to come.
And this would have been during the height of the
spiritual movement. And I know we've talked talked about Alan
Greenfield and stuff, and I talked to Alan Greenfield about
it and he said, yeah, your your great grandparents were

(43:24):
likely Theosophists.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
Yeah, that's a good point. I mean they could have been.
I think there were some I mean, honestly, I think
there was some other orders using it too.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Oh I'm sure, yeah, there was the but whatever.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
For where your grandparents were, because we talked about this.
I don't remember if it was on the show or not,
but they were up in what New York maybe or
West Virginia, West Virginia so close to where that spiritual
movement popped off, So they very well could have been theocopus.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, yes, and yeah, I highly And it's funny because
before I started researching and a cult and everything. You know,
my mom she even knew that the Swaska used to
be used for good purposes and stuff like that, but
that was the extent of it. Like, and then I
started like my cult research, and I'm like, wait a

(44:15):
minute here, Oh, you know what.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
The theosophy actually was. I kind of started it not
only in New York, but Pennsylvania. That's even closer to
West Virginia, Pennsylvania is.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, so that was a very interesting synchronicity that happened
over this.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
So of course, of course, this is well before it
was being used by the Nazi empire.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah, and if anybody who wants to see you can
go on to my Instagram or ex Twitter account, Instagram
at stigy and underscore charters on lex.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
It's like little gems, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yes? Yeah, yeah, I wonder what kind of stones those are?
So there are some type of a blackstone like sod
so yeah, I don't know, but some of them are missing.
But you can go on for your viewers if you're
interested in seeing it. You can go on any of
my social media accounts there and you can view it.

(45:22):
So I have some pictures and I do a quick
video because I had to do the disclaimer so I
wouldn't got so I didn't get thrown into you know,
Instagram jail or you know, ex jail or whatever, because
I could totally see like people being like, oh my god,
she's promoting the swastika. Sure no, I'm out wait this
is this is pre World War two, before the NATS.

(45:42):
He's got ahold of it.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
They put me in time out for using the swastika.
Of course I was using it for historical educational yeah,
so I mean, you know, but that's it's important to
understand this stuff. That way we can understand these more
modern cases. And like going back to a Quino, like
what I'm starting to see here is that he was
following in the footsteps of Himmler in many ways, and

(46:07):
I know that people in his order are gonna would
not would not agree with that, but like I would,
I could debate you on this, not you, but you know, yeah,
I feel like I could debate somebody on this because
I've got the I've got the receipts for it. Because
I mean, he was using he got the concept of
knighthood from Himmler, who got it from the older German occultist.

(46:31):
You know, that's what Himler was doing with the sciety
established a Nazi knights templar, and a Quino knew about this,
and he went down there in that crypt like you said,
and he was revealed information concerning rooms and room magic.
That's we're back to symbolism again, right, so, And I'm sorry,
I'm not trying to like, oh.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
No, no, no, no, this is all great steps now
real quick, though, before I continue on, I do at
some point, you know, the cases I'm covering today were
kind of more in the media, and you know, there
was trials or arrests. Uh. With these cases, I'm kind
of showing the ones that were more obvious, even though

(47:11):
they're not really calling them that. But I do want
to touch on cases that were, you know, label conspiracy,
and one of those is which it definitely is, and
there's evidence. I don't even know how it ended up
being poo pooed. But you know the Presidio which Aquino
allegedly was involved in, Yeah no, yeah, there is yeah.

(47:33):
So and then you had mentioned to me also the Finders.
That's something that would fall into that category, as well
as the Franklin scandal cover up. And also.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Uh, he was involved with the uh, the Franklin scandal.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Yeah no, Paul Bonacci, I mentioned.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Him in the Franklin scandal.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Well, it seemed like he had some PABI involvement because
also Akino supposedly had involvement in Iran Contra, which supposedly
kind of also intersected somehow with the Franklin cover up.
I can't tell you. See, this is why like I
try to but I'm just like you. I try to
do little pieces because when I speak about, you know,

(48:18):
the the other cases, I want to be able to
like fill in all the blanks that people aren't left
with a lot of questions, or if they do have questions,
I can answer them. But Paul Bonacci said Aquino had
involvement in the Franklin scandal and that he had he
had saw him, so which the other interesting part is
if you and this would fall into that same category

(48:40):
the Swept under the Rug, the du Treaux Fair in
Belgium with Mark Dutreaux who was kidnapping children and providing
them to leads for you know, we'll call it what
it is, sexual abuse parties. So but when I did
re charch on that, it was funny. There was a character,

(49:03):
there was a woman in in this and she died
the same way Mandy did in Eyes White or Eyes
White Shut, so and she knew about these parties. But anyways,
it's mentioned in there that that Irine Contra and Aquino
had ties over into it. So to me, it's like

(49:23):
one big global octopus with these child sex trafficking rings
and even you know, dark rituals.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
So and if there was, if there wasn't something to this,
I don't think it would it would continue to pop
up as much as it is. And like you know,
even like recently, I've had because people that I work
with and people who I know, like like kind of
like you know, just regular people that I know outside
of like conspiracy stuff, know that I delve into conspiracy stuff.

(49:59):
So they'll come to me and asked about stuff. And
I've had a couple of people come up to me
and asked me about this, the death of Cornell, Chris Cornell,
and Chester Bennington, because the word on the street is
that we're working on some sort of a documentary that
was to expose what we're talking about here.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yeah, and a vich was also a Vichy put out
a video that indicated this and then he also died.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
I don't know him, but.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Yeah, yeah, he's like a dance electronic DJ.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Oh really yeah? Yeah? Is he a part of the
group that was trying to put that docum?

Speaker 2 (50:36):
You had to put out a video You can see
it online still that indicates you know that child sex
trafficking is a real thing and it's going on.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, well, Lincoln Park. That's Chester Bennington. I think his
son is now out there talking about this. His son
is is like on a campaign right now to find
out what really happened to his dad because he thinks
that there's something at play here with this stuff.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Well, yeah, and it's interesting too, like all these people
like hanging themselves from door knobs. It's just like the
bathtub too, like.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
These because Cornell was a bathtub so well, it it
was both it was I think he was well. He
was said to be in the bathtub and said to
have hung himself in the bathtub somehow. Yeah, so there's
water involved too, because I think that the Chester Bennington
death was at the bottom. It was like he was

(51:32):
already was chained up at the bottom of a pool.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Wow, I haven't heard that one.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Yeah, I think from what I understand, that's how he
was found, and for whatever reason, I think it got
swept up that that's what actually happened. You know, I
could be wrong here, but when I looked into it,
what I was hearing was that he was found chained
up at the bottom of a swimming pool.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
That's horrific. So wow, yeah, and with a VICI I'm
not sure. The last I heard was he was And
it could have changed ten times with you now, so
I'm not saying this is accurate. But the last I
heard was that he I think, slit his wrist with
a wine bottle, a broken wine bottle in the tub.

(52:23):
So but then you had Whitney Houston in the tub.
Kanye lost his mind when they robbed him and Kim
in Paris and they put her in a tub, like
just these are weird ways people are dying and then
it's being classified as suicides or I think Whitney's Houston was,
you know, she odd and then drowned. And you know,

(52:47):
supposedly Bobby Christina, her daughter was terrified of bathtubs, but
yet she she I get, you know, she she nearly drowned,
but she succumbed because she was an coma. She had
brain damage like that. It's just really weird. It's almost
like it's a message.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
It's like it's it's like it's a ritual or a
message or both. Jim Morrison was in a bathtub as well. Yeah, so,
and I think Whitney Houston did her daughter die the
same way.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yeah, she lived longer, she was in a coma because
she was pretty much brain dead by the time they
got to her, and eventually they took her off life support.
But supposedly she was terrified of bathtubs and you know,
so and then what's really interesting is Britney Spears had
a video years ago where she dies in a bathtub. Yeah, so,

(53:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
That reminds something's not right that the last one there.
I mean, she was MK ultra in some sort of
a way.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Has her Cabala bracelet on.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
In that video too, Grande says that she's a cabalist
or into the cobola as well. There's a lot of
ties with that there, but uh, you know, there's that
there's that Diane Sawyer's Britney Spears interview where Diane Sawyers says,
like a code word that makes Britney turn into an

(54:17):
alternate personality. Yeah, and it's total it's totally clear. You
could tell, like I found this in a documentary. Shout
out to Ryder Lee his documentary, Uh, Clockwork Shining. They
show a part of that interview, and it's so clear
that somebody told Diane Sawyer a code word to make

(54:39):
Britney turn into another person essentially.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Well, it seems like, you know, the stuff you see
people talking about her social media posts, it seems like,
I don't know, like her programming like has gone bonkers,
like with how weird she's acting in her post and everything,
Like she doesn't seem mentally state evil.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yeah. So yeah, and like that. The Britney thing also
reminds me of the Lady Gaga thing where her you know,
do you know this like Lady Gaga, like they say
that she stole her style from another artist.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yes, yes, I know this there.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Yeah okay, yeah, and like that girl that artist was
like throwing off a building or ye, fell off a
building or something. And then there's that scene is depicted
in one of Lady Gaga's videos.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah, and we all know she hangs out with Marina Abramovich,
which is a whole nother candel rooms. Yeah, okay, So
I'll move on to dabblers now. So dabbling involves individuals
who are interimintly and experientially involved in occult activities. Dabblers
often make up their own belief system based upon some

(55:54):
called ideology, and carry out criminal activity that conforms to
their ideology. Dabbler's most offen and are true believers who
are emulating a particular tradition or theology, but are not
yet experienced enough to actively conduct the ritual. Occasionally, dabblers
are true criminals who use the call as a method
to gain followers. In either case, the crime scene reflects

(56:15):
a lack of knowledge or skill in sacred rights. There
have been numerous ritualistic murders perpetrated by juveniles and young
adult Satanists who were dabbling in magical ideologies. So that
is dabblers. So, are you familiar with the Kenneth Lanning report,

(56:36):
which was he did. It was in the nineties. I
think he did this whole report on how he didn't
find ritualistic child use to exist or ritualistic homicide with
children to exist. And one of the reasons why I

(56:58):
started this research because I think that report needs to
be revisited because there's obviously cases now that you have
to acknowledge show that this shows this exists.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Yes, so I'm sorry, So what was what was his
point though? He's trying to say that what doesn't exist.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
So ritualistic child abuse circles or murders like.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Just doesn't exist at all.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
No, he says, I mean, he says it's it's possible,
but highly unlikely. Okay, so but yeah, an FBI's Agents
Advice for investigally claims of satanic ritual child abuse, explaining
how the eagerness of some investigators to find satanic or
ritual omens to abuse had impeded the course of justice
in some child abuse cases. From the abstract quote, in

(57:48):
the United States, a prevailing attitude towards child's sexual abuse
is denial. In addition to the long standing stereotype of
abusers as complete strangers has been replaced by the view
that Satanic devil were shippers are victimizing children. Conferences have
focused on the subject, although it has been impossible to
document the widespread existence of this problem. Alternative explanations for

(58:10):
the allegations include pathological distortion due to mental disorders and
the victim traumatic memory, neural childhood fears, and fantasy confusion, trickery,
over zealous interveners, and the spreading of urban legends. And
that is a quote from Landing in January nineteen ninety two,
and it's interesting he says. It says, what is your

(58:33):
definition of a Satanic murder? And he says it would
have to be committed by two or more people to
have some kind of spiritual or religious connotation. I'm like,
why does it have to be more?

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Yeah, I don't get that.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
So you have to have multiple people involved? Why? Why?

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah? So was this guy like a CIA guy? Was
he government?

Speaker 2 (58:53):
FBI?

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Fbis? Of course, I mean, this was it's a script.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Yeah. So he also says at least eight years American
law enforcement has been aggressively investigating the allegations of victim
victims of ritual abuse. There is little or no evidence
for the portion of their allegations that deals with large
scale baby breeding, human sacrifice, and organized Satanic conspiracies. So

(59:18):
he uh he pooh pooed all that on. And the
first case I'm going to talk about is, uh, you know,
one of the reasons why they say this needs to
be revisited.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think that they're insulting people's intelligence with
that one.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Yeah. Well not yeah, not only that, but the victims,
like I think, yeah, that's so. But so this is
a article from the New York Post and the heading
is a twenty three year old was arrested for gun possession.
It led the FBI to a global satanic cult. So

(01:00:00):
I read it real quick.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Here.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Angel Almida's alarming social media post led authorities to seven
sixty four, a group that abuses miners and circulates violent videos.
An arrest on gun possession charges in Queens, New York
in November twenty twenty one has led the FBI to
a pedophilic Satanist extortion call that has victimized dozens, if

(01:00:21):
not hundreds, of miners. According to law enforcement documents, court records,
and sources with knowledge of the investigation. Law enforcement discovered
the organization known as seven sixty four in a range
of a leases while investigating alarming social media posts made
by Angel Almida, a twenty three year old resident of Astoria, Queens.
On September twelve, twenty twenty three, the FBI issued a

(01:00:44):
public warning about seven sixty four, noting the group is
deliberately targeting minor victims on publicly available messaging platforms to
extort them into recording for live streaming acts as self
harm and producing child sexual abuse material. Advisory is the
first formal mention of seven sixty four by any American

(01:01:04):
law enforcement agency. SO, and then in addition to this guy,
there's another article here and I think this was from
Business Insider. FEDS bus leader of neo Nazi CLT he
used discord and telegram to groom and exploit children. The

(01:01:24):
leader of an online cult was arrested Thursday for possession
of Childiebeest material. Klona Lincoln, Prosecutor State, founded an offshoot
of the Satanic group seven sixty four to groom and
exploit kids. Lincoln share childiebees images and recruited victims via
telegram and discord, per court filings. SO in seven sixty

(01:01:47):
four is an offshoot of the Order of Nine Angles,
which they are traditional Satanists. And if you look and
I'm not saying you should look at everything for Wikipedia,
but it says, you know, it advocates a spiritual path
in which practitioners are required to break Sosado taboos by

(01:02:09):
isolating themselves from society, committing crimes, embracing political extremism and violence,
and carrying out axa human sacrifice.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
So that's the Order of the Nine Angles.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Yes, and which seven sixty four is an offshoot of I.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Wonder if that's you know, Heidi, he talks about the
Order of the Nine and I don't know, you know,
I'm wondering if there's a connection there.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
I mean that they could have potentially taken you know,
taken their name off that I don't know if I
have on the screenshot.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Oh, you've got the Order of the Nine the saying
Ounce of the Nine and now you're telling me there's
an Order of the Nine Angles.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
So yeah, Order of Angles. Yes. William Ramsay has wrote
a book on it. He's really good researcher and has
a lot of good information out there on the Order
of Nine Angles and then there's another girl I think
her name is I think it's pronounced backs, but as
like b X. You can find her on X. She

(01:03:15):
has been you know, the order of nine angles, seven,
six y four, she's been investigating all those people too.
So but yeah, so for me, like, I mean, it's
almost like they're you know, ritually abusing children by using
social media maybe and you know that getting these kids

(01:03:37):
to self harm. I mean, and then I have to wonder, like, Okay,
have you know a lot of times perpetrators try to
meet up with kids? Have any of these kids meet
up met up with these especially if it's like a
kid like you know, vulnerable youth like homeless, fosh, their
care things like that, Like have any of these kids

(01:03:58):
met up? Who's to say they didn't? And these kids
aren't missing you see how many missing kids they post nowadays.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Oh yeah, I mean I think that's been going on
for a long time. Like one the case that comes
to mind is the Montalk Project and they were at
the tip of Long Island. There was probably some some
Nazi sciencests involved with that one too, but they were
doing child experimentations. Who knows what they were doing. It
was just a big list of not good things. But

(01:04:26):
there were kids going missing in the area of Long Island, yep.
And I mean, so, you know, and that's just one
little example. This is happening everywhere m yep. And now
with these with this order of nine angles, this sub
sect seven whatever it is, seven two five, seven sixty four,
seven sixty four, So are that they were they able

(01:04:49):
to get off on charges.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
As far as they know, they were being prosecuted, and
I think they were successfully prosecute. You don't quote me though,
but yeah, so but.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
What about the Satanic angled.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Was, Yes, that's what I was just gonna say, Like,
they're probably not. They might mention the group has like
satanic ideologies, but I don't think they're going to throw
that into the mix of you know, why they were
doing what they were doing and how that might tie
into their you know, satanic belief system, because again, they

(01:05:25):
almost I think, feel like that's going to muddy the
waters or that's like information that isn't relevant.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Yeah, so yeah, yeah, what where it gets really weird
It is where you have these groups that are well
it's just like you know, pulling in street kids, kids
that won't be noticed if they go missing, you know,
and then and then you find out that there's a
government program involved behind it or their CIA connections, and

(01:05:56):
they're trying to do like you know, that's that's what
the Stranger Things show was based on. Was this, like
they were trying to create these child X men essentially.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Yeah. I haven't seen the actual movie. It came out
when I was a kid, but Drew Barrymore wasn't it
And it's called I think a fire Starter was it?
But I think it was kind of like the same
concept because she had psychokinesis and yes, yeah, so you know,
trying to find children with abilities.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Yeah, that's it, that's it. And you know, like I
was thinking about it the other day, and I have
a memory of this. I remember in school. I don't
remember what grade I was in. When I was young,
they had me go in an empty classroom with two
other kids. There were three of us in there, and
I think that they had asked my parents in advance,

(01:06:52):
or they had asked my mom in advance. Feels okay,
and she's like yeah, because they told her it was
going to be for a gifted program or something like that.
But I have a memory of this, and I went
in there, and I remember talking to the guy and
he was showing me shapes on a card and he
was asking me what's on the other side of the card? Oh, interesting, like,

(01:07:14):
and I just thought it was really weird because I'm like,
how am I supposed to know that? Right? He's like, well,
just guess, you know, I guess. And then they were
asking me like like what certain shapes were or what
I saw, and they were like really like jumbled up shape.
It was so odd, but they were Yeah, they were

(01:07:35):
going around and they were trying to I guess, recruit
crate kids for these these gifted programs to then plug
them into I guess a CIA program or something.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Yeah. Oh wow, that's wild. That's wow. Maybe it's a
good thing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
That's what it was like our roarshack, Yeah, make shued
me some of that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
So huh. Okay. So the next case I'm gonna go
into is have you are you familiar with Dave Dave
mcgowen's Program to Kill.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
I've heard about it, but fill me in.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
So okay. So on the cover, so we're going to
talk about John Doe number sixty, and he's featured on
the cover of Dave mcgowen's Program to Kill. And I
don't advise anybody if you have the book Program to
Kill to be carrying it around because on the cover
is John Doe number sixty with Justice Torso in a
upside down pentagram, so lovely, it's a pretty pretty, pretty

(01:08:40):
out graphic picture. So but it was a successfully prosecuted case.
So so it was the people of the state of
California versus Clifford Saint Joseph. This is a little lengthy here,
but I'm going to read this because it's important. This
doesn't involved but you know, this obviously involves human sacrifice.

(01:09:05):
So so here are the facts. On June fifteenth, nineteen
eighty five, the body of a twenty five year old
Caucasian mail about five foot five and one hundred and
thirty pounds is found in the South Market area of
San Francisco. According to the coroner's report and subsequent testimony,
the following was noted about the body of John Doe
number sixty. The presence of very little blood pattern injuries

(01:09:28):
on the wrist, angles, back, and botogs, indicating the slashings
were not random. A cut on the upper lip, a
five sided pentagram carved on the chest, one mutilated testicle,
white wax melted in the right eye. From the corner's report,
San Francisco Police Department investigators felt the crime was related
to some satanic ritual. On June twenty third, San Francisco

(01:09:53):
PD received a report for loud behavior at a residence
in the Market district owned by Clifford St. Joseph. The
investigative officers arrived to find one man hammering on a
door trying to enter the residence. Foreign individuals at Spella,
Rick Hunter, Maurice Spork, and Jack Friedland were arrested for drunkenness.

(01:10:15):
During subsequent questioning, Spella told the arresting officers that he
was trying to enter the residence to rescue his friend,
who was drugged against his will, forced to submit sexual acts,
and would soon be the victim of a satanic cult murder.
He also said the residents had previously sacrificed the human being.
The resting officers sent a copy of the report to

(01:10:37):
Homicide as possible information regarding the John Doe Number sixty homicide. Subsequently,
Inspector Sanders issued a search warrant for the residents. Bloodstains
were found on a blue blanket on the carpet and
on the bottom area of some French doors. When the
doors were sprayed with lumnall, a large bloodstain also appeared.
All stains were found to be human. Further, John Doe

(01:10:59):
numbers SI's blood was the same type as that found
on the floor, So you got to remember DNA was
in its infancy here and they still were using blood type.
On June twenty fifth, Inspector Sanators spoke with Ricky Hunter,
the victim in an alleged kidnap, false imprisonment, and forced
bor sodomy case that occurred at the above name residents

(01:11:20):
subsequent to the homicide. During the interview, Sanders received Spella's name,
compacted him, and arranged to meet him on June twenty ninth,
whereupon Speller gave a tape statement in which he confirmed
Hunter's statement that he Hunter had been gang raped, mancled
with thumbcuffs, and sodomized by four men, including Spella, in
Saint Joseph. Spella further stated that Saint Joseph and his

(01:11:43):
two other friends were trying to force Spella to sacrifice
Hunter as part of an initiation into a Satanic group.
He then provided details about the case. Shortly thereafter, the
key witness Spella, Borg and Hunter disappeared. Although the investigation
continued for two years, the case against Saint Joseph was
not made until nineteen eighty seven, when the witnesses resurfaced

(01:12:06):
to actually coroborate the physical evidence. So here's the outcome.
Clifford Saint Joseph was arrested on June twenty third, nineteen
eighty seven, in charge with first degree murder, sodomy, and
false imprisonment. The preliminary hearing occurred in August nineteen eighty seven.
He was arraigned in September, and the trial took place
in February nineteen eighty eight. After six hours of deliberation,

(01:12:28):
on March seventeenth, nineteen eighty eight, the jury delivered a
guilty verdict on all three counts. On May fifth, nineteen
eighty eight, Clifford Saint Joseph received a sentence of thirty
four years to life in prison, twenty five years to
life for first degree murder, the maximum nine years for sodomy,
in three years for false imprisonment, to be served concurrent
with the sodomy term. This is very hard to find

(01:12:51):
any details on this case extremely difficult, which I guess
really isn't surprising, And it was a case I never
heard about until you know, I you know, Dave McGowan's
Program to Kill.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Uh. I'm gonna pause it real quick. We'll be right back. Yeah,
So the Dave McCowan case here. You know, it's a
name I've heard, and I've heard other researchers talk about him,
but I wasn't familiar with the details of this case.
But you know, I heard you mentioned something early on

(01:13:30):
in this case about wax melted in the right eye.
M That's that's an indication to me that there is
a ritual involved.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Yeah, for sure. And what's interesting is when I get
to the next case as well, there also is something
with the eyes. So, but the eyes in the cult
have significant symbolism so.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Well so. But you also said that this was not
it was hard to find information on this one, right,
extremely So what do you think's going on there?

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
I mean, obviously I think you know they this was
this happened in probably the start of the Satanic Panic.
It was like it was eighty five. I he finally
was prosecuted and convicted in eighty eight. So if you
know now that they're trying to go with this whole
Satanic panic hoax. You know, it would make sense that

(01:14:28):
they wouldn't want that to be popping up, especially when
it was a successful conviction. H So, you know, you know, I.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
Just I really wonder about the whole, the whole, the
whole sy o factor here to this, because I do
think that they were trying to cover something up. But
it's like, was the reality of the Satanic murders so
potent that they had to do they felt like they
had to say, oh, this is a hoax. People are

(01:15:00):
just because because they didn't want they actually did not
want people to really panic.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
Mm hmmm, yeah, you know, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
Know the reason for it, but they had a reason.
And you know how government is, like they they a
lot of their their widespread campaigns fall very short. They're
not very well done because we're we're humans. It's hard
to you know, it's hard to manipulate humans. Sometimes they
do a really good job with manipulating humans, but sometimes
they can't figure quite out how to do it well.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
Then too, you wonder if something's getting too close to home,
because I mean, look at look at Jeffrey Epstein. You
still don't know who was involved in that, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
So, yeah, there's too many names, too many big names.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
Right, And this so when you talk about things like
the Franklin scandal or cover up or like the Finders
how that got shut down by the CIA, it makes
you makes you stick to question things and what why.
But I do suspect some of it is, you know,
the government government meddling with people, just like they did

(01:16:09):
and admitted to with MK Ultra. And then the other
part of it is, well, what are these people's belief too?
And then some of them, you know, just have you know,
sadistic taste, like for children. So yeah, I don't know,
but I feel like since the agenda had changed, you know,

(01:16:30):
and they were like, oh, that was just a satanic panic,
nothing going on here. All of it's false. And that's
what drives me crazy, is they it's the satanic panic,
none of it's true, and it's like you sure about that,
like you're going to throw the baby out with the
bathwater on that just assume that's because this has happened
all over the world and this was pre internet, you know,

(01:16:52):
and people are talking about the same things people are,
you know, people are talking about how the tentacles had
freached from like Europe to you to the United States,
like and it just to me it. I think most
people just take it for surface value what the media
tells them, or if like Wikipedia size it was a hoax,

(01:17:13):
like they stopped there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
And the documentaries. I think they used documentaries and this
big time to try and swaye people.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
How about how about Paradise Lost. HBO did on the
West Memphis Three that right there, like they didn't give
the other side of the story about why these guys
were really convicted. Again, William Ramsay wrote the book you
know about the West Memphis Three, and he does a
phenomenal job bringing up all the points as to why

(01:17:40):
they were convicted and why they should have been convicted,
and how actually they're technically still convicted. They just got
out on an outfit plea.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
Yeah. Well, you know when you bring celebrities in and
you make it this this this public cry for empathy
and sympathy, you know, they would they bring Giant Epp
in it. It pulls on some people's heart strings because
he's the Pirates of the Caribbean guy or whatever. But
you know, you mentioned the finders there too. I mean

(01:18:08):
they're you know, they got the thing got kind of
squashed by the CIA. Well they were probably because they
were ci A and they certainly had ties. I mean
the farmers, they the Finders, they had they had that
farm in Virginia, which you know, if you look at
the proximity of that, that's what wealthy people in d
C do. They get these farms out there in the

(01:18:29):
Virginia countryside. And and the Finders have that parking deck
or parking garage in d C that was like less
than a mile less than a mile from the Comt
Ping Pong place, and they a lot of the members
were directly tied to intelligence or you know intelligence circles

(01:18:51):
CIA and all that. It's the whole that whole thing stinks.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
I mean, yeah, I feel like a lot of like
a lot of these cases you know, involving like child
sex trafficking rings, it's either a SIE not a SYA,
but a three letter organization involvement or some perverted elites,

(01:19:19):
whether it's just their perversion for taboo stuff or there's
some type of belief behind it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
Or it's all that. It could be all and like yeah,
you trafficking for sure there, especially with the Finders, just
because that's on my mind right now, because you said
that like that that whole thing stinks of trafficking specifically. Yeah, yes,
I mean I saw or listen to something recently on that.
There's some people out there who's done some pretty decent

(01:19:50):
research into the Finders, and it's just it's very sketchy.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
Yeah. Well, going back real quick, the presidio, which you know,
a knot, is alleged involved in one of the things.
That blows my mind that they still said, oh no,
this didn't happen like or else. It was like maybe
one person that was like convicted or something. These kids
in this preschool had STDs venarial diseases, right, you know

(01:20:21):
kids don't you know, toddlers just don't or you know,
trauma through the genital areas.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
That was that's in many of these cases.

Speaker 2 (01:20:29):
I think that was just like how can you ignore that?

Speaker 1 (01:20:33):
Right? Yeah? That was in the Finders thing too, right,
There's kids had I mean, I'm not gonna go to details.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
Yeah, and just trauma yeah too.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
Well, they were looked at by medical examiners and they
had very very distinct signs of sexual abuse. It's very sad,
but it's in a lot of these cases, and for
some reason, that stuff, it seems like that that that
evidence of sexual abuse with these kids, like the STDs,
that seems to get buried in this pile of propaganda

(01:21:02):
surrounding these cases because the government's involved and you got
big names involved, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
Right, well it was point with all that. Yeah, like
even John Beney ramsay, like you know, you don't hear
it talked about in everyone that you know, in any article,
documentary or whatever covering her case, but they didn't say
how she had signs of being sexually abused and it
was actually I'm not going to go into detail in

(01:21:31):
that either, but it was it was horrifying and so
and it just seems that's still unsolved. Yeah, and it's
still unsolved. Yeah, I've heard his name's George from CAV
Death c A V d EF. I forget what it
stands for something election, But he covers like a bunch
of like sterial killers. Dave McGowan like child sex trafficking

(01:21:55):
ring is very interesting and I've heard him talk about
he like was investigating like a ring that was in
Boulder that you know could have involved John Beney.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
So do you remember a case. There was a little
girl who went missing in broad daylight in Spain.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
No, are you talking about Portugal? Are you talking about Maddie?

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
It was it may have been Portugal.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
Actually I think it was Maddie.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
Like she was taken right out of their.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
Yeah, yeah, oh wait, it was the window or something.
Her parents were eating dinner with another couple and the
kids were sleeping and they were doing shifts going on.
Came in through the window and Madeline McCain.

Speaker 1 (01:22:39):
Yeah, that one. Well, you know, they.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Found the dude. Yeah, I question something.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
Well, I was going to say it because it's just
to tie this in with DC and and coming Pong
and all that. Uh. Guests who was in Portugal right
down the street, John Adesta.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
Super and his brother.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
Oh my god, the Podesta creeps right around the block.
You know that dude. I don't know that dude. That
dude's very weird. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
His brother has that arch of hysteria, which is how
Dahmer poses victims after he decapitated them in his Sterwell like,
who who thinks, oh this is beautiful, I want this
in my house.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
No, they and they have. I looked at their artwork
one day. It was super super disturbing and it's artwork.
So yeah, at the end of the day you can say, oh,
it's just art, but I mean it was. It was
over the top disturbing and it's all like it's all
like all the artwork is is like in this weird

(01:23:51):
realm of that and of just like like murder situation,
like like when you have like a naked kid standing
on a child floor with a drain, and it's like
that's a perfect place to kill someone, obviously because you
can just wash it all down, you could clean up
and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
It's like, did you hear how people were saying that
looked like Anderson Cooper, like the kid in that picture. Yeah,
they were talking about it. And then they brought up
the Vanderbilder built Moore Estate, his mom's family's big mansion
in North Carolina, and the pool there, and people have

(01:24:31):
like looked at pictures. No one can find like these.
The back then they didn't have chlorine, so they would
have to drain the pool after each us they'd bring
the pump water in. But I can't find me too.
I can't find a drain anywhere. But when I went there, Okay,
I was six and it was super creepy to me,

(01:24:53):
Like I didn't know why it was creepy. I'm like, oh, weird,
it's like a dungeon. Yeah, it's like in a basement,
which was weird. No windows, Yeah, and I was super
creeked out. And then I the fire alarm went off
and it was a false fire alarm, but that scared
me even more. I did not like it, and I
just bad vibes, bad vibes, like from a six year

(01:25:16):
old perspective. I didn't like it, but I had no
reason to say why. But there was something that I
didn't like about it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
I thought it was weird too. I remember thinking because
I was I was a swimming fanatic when I was
a kid. I loved the swim. Yeah, my favorite things
to do. And I remember when I was in there too,
I was a kid as well, and I remember thinking,
I don't I wouldn't want to swim in here. I
just had that thought. I don't know what it was,
but it's something was often there. It's like it's like, yeah,
it doesn't even look like a pool either. It was

(01:25:46):
a weird shape pool definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
Yeah, it just definitely gave me the creep vibes. And
then years later when you hear all this talk and
I'm like, and Gloria Vanderbilt, you want to talk about
some dark art? She would make these what they were
like shadow box she called dream boxes. And there's even
a picture in Oh it was like country living back
like when Anderson Keeper and his brother who leapt to

(01:26:14):
his death from a building when he was like early twenties,
which is kind of interesting, isn't he? Yeah, yes, And
but it's a picture of I think his brother's name
is Carter, him and his brother and Gloria Vanderbilt on
the bed and behind it is like a human sacrifice scene.

(01:26:37):
And I did a post on this because it was
very interesting because I don't know if if it was
her artwork or someone else's, but it was like almost
like a inverted Our Lady of Sorrows depiction because you
see the similarities in my post. But it's like, I

(01:26:57):
don't know who would hang that above their bed, right?
It was like deeply disturbing.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
Yeah. Yeah, did you ever see the documentary? I think
it's called Who Will Find? What the Finders Find? Or
something like that. So weird. Maybe I'm getting that wrong
with so it's about the Finders. Obviously. I heard the
guy who made that documentary, who does great research, by
the way, he said that when he was researching the Finders,

(01:27:25):
a guy from the Bush administration contacted him out of
the clear blue. He was like George W's translator throughout
the Bush administration contacted him, trying to persuade him not
to make this documentary about the Finders. And it was

(01:27:47):
and it was It's funny to hear him tell it
because it's like, it's so obvious that this guy, this
guy tried to play it off like he had good intentions,
like he was used.

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
George Well, you know, Daddy Bush was, Yeah, Senior was
head of c i A. I think before he was
so like Binders c i A like exactly the same time.

Speaker 1 (01:28:13):
Like yeah, yeah, it all like yeah, it all makes
sense when you sit back and look at the big picture,
and a lot of it goes back to D. C. Podesta,
Bush administration, Clinton administration. You know, I don't know how.
I don't know if this one's going to stay up
on YouTube very long, by.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
The way, but I know I was just thinking, I'm
like I'm saying certain words. I'm like, oh, I think
you said this is on YouTube. I'm like, maybe you can,
maybe you can bleep out.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
My We'll figure it out now, we'll say what we
want at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
Yeah, but yeah, crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:28:46):
You know. And I don't want to harp on the
Founders thing too long, but I do. I do. Have
you researched it?

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
I have over the years, Yes, and they recently, what
was a couple of years ago, they actually released a documentation,
but you know, probably not all of it's there, right.

Speaker 1 (01:29:02):
Right, Well, you know, if if we do something in
the future, maybe we can cover it more. Yeah, we'll see.
But like the guy who started that, his name was
maryon Petty. Maryon Petty, I think is nice.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
That's that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
He was a top brass Air Force guy as well.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
So all this goes back, It goes straight back to
the top military government intelligence agencies.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
Yeah, and it's just like you know, even though it
wasn't he wasn't convicted or anything, but like a keynote
the presidio he was he wrote you know, that psychological
Warfare book like you know, so again.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
Like yeah, he was in the call it the syop.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
So like these these people you know, are involved even
though they're never they never seem to be convicted or anything.
It never seems to go anywhere. But how many times,
like you know, if it looks like a duck and
quacks like a duck.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
That's what That's what I'm saying. And it's so funny
because I've heard these guys in interviews who were part
of Aquino's organization or his order actually, and they say,
you know, when they talk about the the Vivolsburg working,
they say that one of Aquino's I don't know, one
of his goals was to bring uh was to bring

(01:30:22):
shed light on the propaganda and how propaganda can be
used on people. Like he would like he was trying
to like show like look what the Germans did, like
it was bad, this is this is bad, this is propaganda.
But at the same time, I'm like, this guy's not
trying to show propaganda awareness. Come on, he's he was
involved with propaganda for our government.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
Well, yeah, what you had Operation Mockingbird. And then you
have the twenty twelve Smith's Modernization Act that Obama signed
back into effect, which says the government can vie de propaganda.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
Yeah, so exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
You know, these are things people you know, they look
at us like a lot of times like we're crazy.
But it's like just look for yourself. Look and you'll see,
you know, you'll find references and things that tell you this.
And it's not a bunch of you know, conspiracy theory
bunk like this is like conspiracy fact. Like that they

(01:31:25):
admitted like mk ultra operation Mockingbird. Uh was it? What
was it? Compro I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:31:34):
Battle?

Speaker 2 (01:31:36):
Yeah, that thank you Battle of Tonkin, which Jim Morrison's
dad led, and then thister Jim Morrison acts like he's
all like anti government anarchists and stuff. But still with
the gulf.

Speaker 1 (01:31:51):
Of the that's a good one. That's uh, that's that's
what perpetuated us into the Vietnam Wars. That's the sigh.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
And they don't teach you that in school, No they don't.

Speaker 1 (01:32:01):
It's funny because I've tried to tell normies about that
and and like all they need to do is go
look it up. It's all the proof anyone who could
ever need. And people will choose, people will choose not
to go and look that one up.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
Yeah, And I think there's a it was a business insider.
You know, most of the ones I listed that had
an article it posted like five you know conspiracy theories
that turned into you know, fact and those the ones
I just listed, but those were all on there. It's like,
you know, you don't. Yeah, the people just want to
live in you know, live behind their rose colored glasses.

Speaker 1 (01:32:36):
Yeah. The mental gymnastics, which is what it is, is
off the charts with some of these cases. And I
mean even even in this whole Vivilsburg thing, something else
came to mind while we were talking, you know, because
I've heard these people in the Temple set talk about
this vivils or working and they'll say in the interviews,

(01:32:58):
they'll say they'll start talking about the the myth of
Nazi occultism. They believe that the Nazis really weren't cultists.
So but they're talking about the Billsburg working, which it's
all based on Nazi cultists. It makes no sense.

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
I mean it kind of you know, it kind of
makes just as much sense as the people who say
they're not Satanists but like to use Satan and Bapphamet
as a symbol.

Speaker 1 (01:33:27):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:28):
Yeah. I just think we're all dumb enough, which some
people are going to you know, take the stupid pill
and say, oh, yeah, it's it's n I think they're
just yeah, musing as a symbol of you know, defying
you know, society norms or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
Okay, yeah, and yeah, I mean it's it's it's crazy
a Quino. He's just.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
Hee eyebrows.

Speaker 1 (01:33:56):
But I mean he's you know, top top military, top government. It.
You know, it seems like there's always that connection. There's
usually a military connection. There's usually a government connection of
some sort. It reminds me of and and that that
petty guy from The found the Finders, Like it reminds
me of Marlon Brando's character from Apocalypse Now at the end,

(01:34:19):
it's like this rogue general who's who's kind of gone
lost his mind and gone like fool on warlord.

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
That's like what And this also is not a conspiracy theories.
What was it? Was it Operation or Project Phoenix in Vietnam?
Like they trained killers and they sent him over there
and then they came back and like how do they
just the society? Like I think, I think, gosh, I
want to say it was Gary Heinrich, who was a

(01:34:50):
serial killer in Philadelphia. The character Buffalo Bill was based
off from a little bit with you know, because he
had girls in a pit. But I believe he was military,
and you know, he was sent over there as a
fighting machine, a killing machine. Yeah, and coming back to
you know, and there's their mind is so completely because

(01:35:13):
they were it wasn't just to kill, it was to
kill the most gruesome, horrific torture some way.

Speaker 1 (01:35:20):
Yeah, I'm gonna try to find this guy's name because
I'm blinking on it. But there was a very prominent
general during the Vietnam War who was sent over there
to do psyops psychological warfare on the Vietnamese, and he
was They allowed this guy to pretty much go full

(01:35:42):
on serial killer under the guise of war. Right because
he's out there in the jungle. There's no internet, nobody
will ever know, right, But what this guy was doing
was sneaking into villages. I think there was supposedly Vietcong,
but he was sneaking in the villages in the middle
of night, snatching people and and brutally killing them and

(01:36:04):
then like nailing them to the door in the village,
hanging like he was trying to uh make the people
think that there was a vampire on the loopen.

Speaker 2 (01:36:13):
Oh yeah, something supernatural.

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
Yeah, he was and they were. He was using speakers
from helicopters to broadcast like messages to people. It's wild.

Speaker 2 (01:36:26):
Yeah, and if you if you're in a culture that
you know their beliefs heavily, you know, have supernatural elements
to it. Yes, you know, that could be very effective
in making them believe that. I think one of the
one of the there's probably on one hand, maybe maybe

(01:36:46):
a little bit more than one of scenes for movies.
I can recall that kind of almost like we're so horrific.
They traumatized me, and I think one of and normally
that takes a lot, but one of those scenes was platoon,
when that soldier stomps that intellectually disabled boy's head. I

(01:37:07):
remember that really stuck with me.

Speaker 1 (01:37:09):
Yeah. So I was looking for the name of this
general while you're talking. And it's funny because I put
in a cult Vietnam general in the Google and what
came back was the phrase a cult Vietnam general most
likely refers to Michael Angelo Aquino. Well, but I'm saying

(01:37:32):
there was another guy, and what does this say? Uh,
this is google. Aquino was a specialist in psychological warfare
and served in Vietnam during the war He later established
a temple set, a Satanic organization that emphasizes self defecation

(01:37:55):
and the use of black magic. That's an interesting coming
from Google. It's an interesting So I think it's interesting
what this this AI comes up with.

Speaker 2 (01:38:08):
Something, Yeah for stuff, because it's like, you know, you
gotta wonder because like when you search Google before AI,
like you got a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:38:16):
Of self deification. I'm sorry, Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:38:21):
I fumble, No, Like you wonder how well you know,
AI is still kind of new and everything, but you know,
it's kind of different from when we used to I mean,
we still type it in search bar, but we didn't
used to have the AI content come up. So it's
like Google could do a better job filtering what the
results were. You almost wonder if like AI doesn't filter

(01:38:44):
them as well in the results and maybe you get
some more truth that Google wouldn't have had if you know,
they weren't using the AI option, Like and you know,
I mean AI can be sent it can go sentient,
and I think that's what everybody's waiting for.

Speaker 1 (01:39:01):
So well it might be already sure, this might actually
be sentient or part time sentient, where something is able
to access this and manipulate it. I mean I think
that that's if it hasn't happened already, it's it's probably
going to. You know, Rudolph Steiner talked about it before

(01:39:27):
he died in nineteen twenty three. I think it was
he was he was describing basically the world we live in.
He was describing a time where science would be looked
at not as a theory, but as a religion, as truth,
and that I had technology would be sent to Earth
for humans to be able to use, and that this

(01:39:48):
entity named Araman would be able to would utilize the
technology and use it to manipulate us. And I mean
it sounds just like AI.

Speaker 2 (01:39:58):
Yeah, and I I did a post on the age
of Age of Aquarius and a lot of what that is,
you know, allegedly, well depending on when you think the
Age of Aquarius started or whatever, what it's going to involve.
And you know, they talk about how science will become

(01:40:19):
a religion and all the you know, it's just not
going to be good. And I can't I can't remember
everything I wrote on a verbatim. But even Carl Jung,
who was an occultist and you know into psychiatry, psychology,
you know, father of that said this is going to
not be good. So but yeah, so yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:44):
Young Young Young was an occultist, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:40:48):
So, oh yeah, it was admitted. He admitted it.

Speaker 1 (01:40:52):
I mean, I've even heard people say, people who have
researched him heavily say that towards the end there he
realized that the you know, because this whole idea of
the arc type right, that these aren't necessarily real entities.
There's there's arc typesh. I think towards the end there
he may have actually realized that he was talking to

(01:41:14):
a something sentient. He may have known it the whole time,
but it's it's not evident necessarily in some of his
writings for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
Okay, so the final case I'm going to discuss this
time for this episode we talked, have me back, because
there's more cases to be discussed and more I would
like to add too. So, but this is also a
case you don't hear about very frequently, and aside from
these articles, it's very difficult to find any kind of

(01:41:47):
been full out there on them. But so this is
Howard Green and Carol Maren and this happened December sixteenth,
nineteen seventy nine. So Howard Green was fifty one and
he was a taxi cab driver and artist, while Carol Maren,
thirty three, was the secretary at the Pratt Institute in
Brooklyn as well as a part time dress designer. So

(01:42:11):
their bodies were dumped and found in West Patterson, New Jersey,
on the shoulder of Rout eighty. Now there's varying accounts
as to who discovered the bodies, some accounts saying it
was a boy walking his dog, others saying it was
a passing motorists. So their bodies were found in canvas rugs.
They were bludging so badly their eyes quote blew out

(01:42:33):
of their sockets, unquote, said retired detective James Debeau. Other
accounts state that two had been beaten on hold on
a minute. That other accounts state that the two had
been beaten on the left side of their face and
stabbed in the right eye. So this is what I
was talking about with the eyes. The tips of their
ears were cut off and their blood was drained through

(01:42:56):
approximately thirty puncture wounds made in identical places on their body,
and it was speculated a veterinarian syringe needle was used.
There was no blood spatter at the scene. In each
victim's hand was a clump of hair from an unidentified individual.
So let's see. So what we know is the couple

(01:43:17):
resided in Brooklyn. Not as like I said, not a
lot is known about the case, and there are some
varying accounts of investigated investigation reported. So there was a
New York Post article from March third, two thousand and two,
and it was titled Hellish seventy nine Sleigh case goes
cold after cops dropped the ball. And then there was

(01:43:37):
a second article published in the New York Post on
April eighth, two thousand and two, so not long after
cold case, cops lose seventy nine slagh file. Within the articles,
there were conflicting reports on what was found in the
couple's apartment by Brooklyn Detective James Devereaux West Parisher and
Detective Joseph Lambert and Captain Edward Murphy of the And

(01:44:00):
I don't know if I'm going to say this right
Pasiak Prosecutor's Office. So Detective Devereaux and Captain Murphy indicated
that the murders took place in the apartment. However, it
became one law enforcement agency, saying they thought the other
law enforcement agency was handling it. A crime was committed
in both jurisdictions and locations, so what don't you think,

(01:44:20):
you know, they both be investigating it, like where the
bodies were found and then where they went missing from.
So I mean, I just don't understand how they just
had no communication, just that oh, that department will take
care of it, even though part of it's in our
you know, jurisdiction, like and there's no follow up. Yeah,
that's weird. So other reports stated police searched the couple's

(01:44:42):
apartments supposedly found various items of a called paraphernalium. In particular,
there were numerous items related to the cult group the
Oto Ordo a Template Orientis, which is founded by ocultists
Carl Kilmer and Theo Rus. The same group also gained
the attention of Fami called his Alistair Crowley, who was
perhaps the most influential member.

Speaker 1 (01:45:05):
Yeah. I'll point out that that Theodore Russ, who you
just mentioned, was a big part of that German romanticism. Yeah,
the German occultism from the nice Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:45:17):
Yeah. So neighbors and the couple say there was nothing
unusual in the days leading up to the murders. The
last known sighting of Green and Maren had been on
a New York subway, where they were described as being
perfectly normal. Now, are you familiar with Maury Terry and
the whole Son's Son of Sam investigation, how he felt

(01:45:37):
it was a cult, a Satana cult, and it wasn't
just you know, David Burkwood's was the fault guy pretty much.
But yeah, he wrote that book, The Ultimate Evil. But
someone wrote a letter to Maury Terry at that time
after Green and Maren's murders, and it said, dear Mary Terry,

(01:45:59):
please into this double killing. Carol was asking people about
the OTO the year prior to the murders. I can't
accept that the people responsible for this are still walking
around free. I'm afraid that the problems will not go away,
and that minds this unbalanced may perpetrate for additional horse
or I'm sorry, perpetuate additional horse. Forgive me for not

(01:46:20):
signing my name. I haven't gotten over the fear. So
there's that. And then you know, like I just mentioned,
Mary Terry was also looking in the Son's the Son
of Sam, or I keep saying Sons the same because
of the Netflix right series based off it, but which
had ties.

Speaker 1 (01:46:40):
To the Son of Sam thing. It's been a while,
I'm a little hazy on the details, but I did
kind of walk away from that one thinking that it
was the works of a cult.

Speaker 2 (01:46:55):
Of some time, right, right, and why can't I think
of the name of it is the true arch of
Process Church. Yes, so I almost wonder if maybe you
know that she stumbled or Maren and Green stumbled. Maren
stumbled into that area too, since there was already that

(01:47:16):
that going on. But when we were talking about the
eyes earlier, and I had mentioned, you know, the previous case,
you know, the wax and the eye, and in this case,
but I just wanted to touch a little bit on
eye symbolism in the cult. So in Egyptian, Western cult
traditions and nearly all cultures, the eyes associated with spiritual

(01:47:39):
concepts such as diffinity, the eye of providence, spiritual illumination,
third eye or pineal gland, or magic or magic such
as the evil eye. So the right eye has a
symbol of solar and sun, the eye of raw, whereas
the left eye is loun eye of horse or thouce.

(01:48:03):
And then it says for the eye of raw, that is,
it's the eye of truth, a force that uses violence
to subdue and control enemies. It's also used for protection,
whereas the eye of horse is for protection, health, restoration,
and healing. So that was a little bit on eye symbolism.
I also know there's like the Katonic gods are associated

(01:48:27):
with the left eye, and then whatever the opposite of
the Katonic Katonic gods is. I think it's like pretty
much all the Greek and Roman gods or whatever, but
I can't remember what the opposite it's called. But the
left eyes associated with you know, Katonic gods, which are
like the underworld gods.

Speaker 1 (01:48:47):
So maybe even the left hand path.

Speaker 2 (01:48:50):
Yes, exactly, so, which makes sense that the left eye
would be associated with the Katonic gods, just like the
left hand half. So but yeah, the eye is probably
probably one of the most you symbol and across the cult,
although it's got various meanings, so when you're looking at

(01:49:11):
something it can be hard to interpret what it's conveying
to what message is conveying.

Speaker 1 (01:49:19):
Yeah, I agree, you know, I want to go back
to the last case there. I think it's interesting that
these victims were found holding hair of an own person. Uh,
this would indicate obviously that that's got to be somebody
who's got a suspect m h for sure that that
would be somebody that that's probably the killer.

Speaker 2 (01:49:42):
Yes, I agree, So.

Speaker 1 (01:49:44):
They haven't been able to find.

Speaker 2 (01:49:47):
So well, this is probably predated the DNA and if
they lost the cold case file, who knows that they
lost that? And then the other thing is I think
it des ends on if the roots attached, how viable
the hair is to provide DNA? Okay, so or I mean,

(01:50:10):
you know, if someone's not in the system, although now
they're using familial DNA, but I suspect that with the
cold case file loss that included the hair, or someone
didn't think the hair was important. You're one of the two.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:50:27):
Some of those people may have been killed off too.
Some of the people involved with the murders may have
been killed off to protect the autonomy. I can't say
that word right now, you know, Yes, I'm not gonna
try it again. But we tracked the group. Yeah, you know,
with the Son of Sam thing, you get the sense

(01:50:49):
that there's a higher organization at play, and they were
very much trying to cover their tracks. Yeah, some of
the killers might not even be around anymore. And if
I remember correctly, with the Son of Sam thing too,
it seems like there may have been multiple killers like
a yes, yes, yeah, like some sort of a I

(01:51:12):
don't know, like a group of them.

Speaker 2 (01:51:14):
Yeah. And that's what like, you know, and that's what
Mary Terry's book cover covers, which is kind of how
that Netflix documentary came about, was based off his book
Ultimate Evil. But I remember watching it and I it
was I enjoyed it a lot, and it just was
like because it made a lot of sense. He seemed
like he was onto something, even despite you know, many

(01:51:38):
people trying to make it seem like he was just
like this obsessive crazy person going down this you know,
rabbit hole that led to nowhere.

Speaker 1 (01:51:46):
Yeah, and you know, and the thing is is like
in these courtrooms because they're using this we were talking about science, right,
modern day science, modern day science. Uh will doesn't want
to acknowledge the fact that there's a spiritual world and
other entities.

Speaker 2 (01:52:03):
No, I will not that. I So it seems like
at least was cern and I.

Speaker 1 (01:52:12):
Think I have a Yeah, that's different. It's different, you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:52:15):
And then even a little bit. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:52:20):
They don't want to attribute anything to demonic possession or
anything of the right, right.

Speaker 2 (01:52:30):
You know, And I think a lot of times, you know,
they try to stay stay clear of that or steer
clear of that because they don't want someone to be
able to get off on an insanity play.

Speaker 1 (01:52:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's it. I mean, we know we can,
and we definitely talked about that earlier on. I think
that's that's the case. But I don't know, you know,
you've done a lot of research, you know, I've done
a lot of research, and I from what I can tell,
these people, people in these orders are dealing with other entities,

(01:53:05):
oh yeah, and for some reason they don't want to
admit it, and a lot of times they don't want
to admit to that. But it seems like that's the case.
So I just I just think that that part's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:53:18):
I don't know. Yeah, well yeah, I think part of it,
you know is, you know, that's for the initiated and
word of profane a lot of that. So and also
you know, because obviously if what they're doing or what
they're practicing like violates a law, you know, obviously they
don't want anyone to know that either.

Speaker 1 (01:53:40):
Yeah. You know, here's we talked about Carl Jung and
and I found this quote. Uh. He said, the serpent
is an excellent symbol for two aspects of the unconscious.
It's cold and ruthless instinctially, and it's Sophia or natural wisdom.

(01:54:03):
He's trying to explain that as like an ARC type,
but at the same time he's actually describing an ancient
entity named Sophia. So I don't there's no way around
this stuff for me. You know, people will say, oh,
these entities are just archtypes. No, they're they're demons.

Speaker 2 (01:54:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're here. We are again trying to
make something sound nice and pretty, like, you know, just
a nicely wrapped box of shit, like we're just trying
to dress it up. So nobody has any kind of suspicions.

Speaker 1 (01:54:43):
Yeah, or maybe they're not demons, maybe there's something else,
but definitely there are demons involved.

Speaker 2 (01:54:50):
Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. I was trying to see if
I could. I can't get on Instagram right here, but
I was I was going to look on my Instagram
say what he said about the age of a Koreas
that probably can do it on here real quick.

Speaker 1 (01:55:08):
I just think people are a claim to that arc
type thing, you know, and it falls in line with
like rationalistic atheist westerner thought.

Speaker 2 (01:55:20):
You know, yeah, okay, here's what he said. He mentions
the Age of Aquarias in his book A or ai
O n Ye, believing that the Age of Aquarias will
consolate the problem of the union of the opposites. In
accordance with prominent astrology astrologers, Young believed the Age of

(01:55:42):
Aquarius will be a dark and spiritually deficient time for humanity,
writing that it will no longer be possible to write
off evil as a mere privation of Sorry this is
small and don't have my glasses of good. It's existence
will have to be recognized in the eye or in

(01:56:03):
the Age of Aquarius. According to Young's interpretations of astrology,
the Age of Pisces began with the birth and death
of Christ, associating the I don't know if I'm going
to say this word right, like this coliquily known as
Jesus Fish with the symil of Pisces following the age
of I think that's supposed to be Aquarius. I think

(01:56:25):
I missed that up would be the Age of Aquarius,
the spiritually deficient age before the arrival of the anti Christ.
So and then I don't know. So this guy is
Robert Zolar and he says proponents of medieval astrology suggest

(01:56:45):
that Pisces world, where religion is the opiate of the masses,
will be replaced in the Aquarius Age by world ruled
by secretive power hungry elites seeking absolute power over others.
Is that knowledge in the Aquarius Age will only be
valued for its ability to win wars, that knowledge and

(01:57:08):
science will be abused, not industry and trade, and that
the Quorean Age will be another dark age in which
religion is considered offensive.

Speaker 1 (01:57:18):
No, I think two a lot of these, Like when
you're looking at crimes and these murders and these specifically
like occult satanic murders, there's you're getting a combination of
two things, sex and violence. And I think that goes

(01:57:40):
back to yes and and and to a greater uh,
the older Nephilin belief systems, because they were said to
be super vile, right like even the descendants of the
of the Nephilum, like the Canaanites, the Romans, who would
usually work with people they conquered, they would integrate with

(01:58:03):
the people they conquered. They wouldn't do that with the
Canaanites because they were too vile, because they had these
these this Nephylin belief system that involved sex and violence,
and it was too much for them. And I mean
I think too you see a lot of those those Canaanites,
for instance, getting moved out. They came over here to
North America, I believe. Oh yeah, you have the legends

(01:58:25):
of the giants over here, right, because the Native Americans
talked about that. Well, the Native Americans collectively got together
essentially and decided to kill off all the.

Speaker 2 (01:58:35):
Giants because they were eating them.

Speaker 1 (01:58:37):
Well that but yeah, because of this there were they
was that, but they also had like vile sexual, violent tendencies.
So you see this Nephelone belief system strand I think, right.

Speaker 2 (01:58:55):
And you know it's all about the life for us,
Like you have bood and then you have bodily fluids
like a seminal fluids. These are life force fluids and
have you know, powerful pointent properties and that's why there's
sacrifice or there's sex magic.

Speaker 1 (01:59:19):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think Ed talks about
that too.

Speaker 2 (01:59:25):
Yeah, yeah, and we had talked about that. Yeah, because
I'm one hundred percent in line with that. That seems
there seems, you know, seems to be something there, you know,
life and death.

Speaker 1 (01:59:39):
Yeah, and blood. Yeah, it's blood is sacred, it's very
it's got you know, in the Bible it says people
are not to drink the blood, they're not to utilize
the blood in certain ways ritualistically. So there's something there,
there's something to that. It holds the blood holds the life, right, yep.

(02:00:01):
Blood is the life force, and there's there's no no's
like the ancient people were not the Israelite specifically were
not allowed to do certain things involving blood, right. And
it seems like the nephilin the other side of the coin,
the other tribes, the Nephilin tribes were very much about
doing that stuff. So yes, but yeah, this has been good.

(02:00:24):
I learned a lot so and I think it seems
like you didn't get to a lot of the stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:00:29):
You want to know, there's three other cases, so I
was able to cover three cases today, but I also
kind of covered you know, ritual is the commicides and
the perpetrators behind it. So I have three more cases
and I continue to you know how, I want to
continue to grow this research and touch on you know,
all you know, various cases and keep adding. Like I said,

(02:00:52):
I kind of want, you know, a section of the
swept under the rug kind of things like the finders,
the Franklin cover up, Fox Island or the Oakland County
child killer, the presidio those things, you know. But it's
so like so vast, like you know, and I give
credit to Dave McGowan for all the work he's done

(02:01:13):
on it, which, by the way, you can, if you're interested,
I can send you a little I think I still
have a link on what is that Internet archive like
his books on there, so if you have like you
can read it by downloading the pdf.

Speaker 1 (02:01:29):
So cool cool. Yeah, well we'll have to do a
continuation of this sometime.

Speaker 2 (02:01:36):
Yes, absolutely, I'd love to come back.

Speaker 1 (02:01:38):
Yeah, it'd be great and we can wrap it up here. Uh,
tell everyone where they can find you and your work.

Speaker 2 (02:01:44):
So you can find me on Instagram at Stygon Underscore
Charters and that is Stigen is spelled s t y
g I A N Underscore Charters c h R t
e r S. You can also find me on X
and it's just Stiggy and Charters. I also have my
podcast which is briefly on hold right now, just you know,

(02:02:05):
because life happens. But I'm still doing guest appearances and
hope to pick up the podcast again one day soon.
And that is Stiggy and Charters.

Speaker 1 (02:02:14):
Yes, and there's still a lot of great work. There,
a lot of good episodes that people can go to
and listen and listen to.

Speaker 2 (02:02:22):
So and don't yell at me about the Ed Maybray
one where you can't hear him. I could hear him
fine when I when we were talking and then when
I like, we listen and I'm like, oh crap, and
I put a little disclaimer and people are still yelling
at me about it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:34):
I'm like, I'm sorry, yeah, people can get arder it.
Thanks again, Nick, Yes, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (02:02:44):
It was great to be on.

Speaker 1 (02:02:45):
Again, of course, and as always, break them old conckered
around and thanks for listening to contro

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Conspiracy Garden: Occult Crimes, Rituals in Castles, & The Church of Aquino

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal

All Episodes

Conspiracy Garden: Occult Crimes, Rituals in Castles, & The Church of Aquino

Dateline NBC