June 18, 2025 • 30 mins
Confused about the world of college athletics, NIL, and revenue sharing? René and Shawn discuss the latest NCAA settlement and what it all means.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to another Curveball production. We are in the Northern
studio where Sean would say, and it is a wild weather.
I wish it was Wednesday, because that was if you're
listening to it as Wednesday, but we're recording this Monday night.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well we could have said Wednesday.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
No, we could have, but then people would have been like, wait,
what the weather's fine?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Good point, and when we do have very very smart
listeners that would have caught onto that in a heartbeat
for sure. Correct, Sorry, listeners, we won't pull it over. Well,
won't try to pull one over on you.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
We're currently allowing the chicken salad I made to I
don't know, like Mary, the flavors to marry. I think
that the good cooks say. But the beauty of this
is is I'm just along for the ride. Tonight, Sean
is going to treat you to a wonderful discussion about
college sports and the nil situation. And it's not that
(01:07):
I don't care, because I absolutely do. He is just
so much more well versed than I am on this topic,
so take it away.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It's so basically it's not gonna be a discussion. It's
going to be me more of a pontification, a monologue,
A monologue very good with with you know, so I'll
be maybe I'll be the Johnny Carson and you could
be my Ed McMahon.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Fair enough. I just randomly ask question and just tuckle
whatever I say something funny, whether it is or not.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So yeah, the recently the NCAA, there was a settlement
that was that the courts came down with that is
a long time coming. It's it's centers around athletes, college athletes,
whether or not they should be paid, how that whole
(01:58):
thing should work. The NIL name, image and likeness has
been around now for a few years, and that's caused
quite disturb This all began a number of years ago
when it didn't start with EA Sports, but I want
to say it did start with EA Sports when they
(02:20):
came out with their college football video game and I
think it was college Football, I don't know, sixteen or
fifteen or something, and these college players decided was They're like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
You're going to use my name and my likeness in
your game and I'm not getting anything out of this.
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I would just like to say, even though I promised
I wasn't going to say anything this podcast, that this
whole idea, that the transfer portal, the name, image and
likeness situation, the fact that these college kids aren't getting paid,
but some are getting scholarships, some aren't. The whole thing
is a little bit crazy when you can consider the
vast amount of money that is generated through some college
(03:04):
sports and the fact that these colleges are making this
money on the backs of young students slash athletes. Sehn says,
now we need to call them athletes slash students, but
that's for another conversation. But I'm like, yeah, you know what,
it isn't right because half these kids Okay, and I'm
just this is a blanket statement, but a number of
(03:24):
these kids, yes my monologue. Now, a number of these
kids are going to get hurt in college and never
get the opportunity to go play in the pros and
make big money. So if at the end of the day,
you get to play a sport and do what you
love and get paid, why wouldn't we allow them to
do that?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Right? Well, and you know, then the other folks will say, well,
you know, if they're getting scholarships, they're getting paid, they're
you know they're getting education, which you know you go
to some of these schools, that's thirty five forty thousand
dollars a year.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I mean, that's that's peanuts compared to what some of
these understand.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
But it's still they there, they are they were getting paid.
Now again, I'm with you. I think that they that
athletes should get paid. The issue is more around you know,
they you have your football and your basketball. Those are
the sports that make the money, sure, and those are
the athletes that are saying, hey, why am I not
(04:22):
getting paid? But then you have your other sports that
are that are not your revenue generating sports, and they.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Have scholarships and I mean there's some revenue generation in
this market, particularly for hockey, correct, but I mean to
the level of football and basketball. Absolutely not same thing
with baseball.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So this so the settlement came about where athletes basically
sued the NCAA and said, hey, we should be getting paid,
and the courts came down. Now again, you've had the
nil stuff now for a few years where athletes can
and get endorsements from anybody and they can then use
(05:06):
there that those car dealerships for instance, can use an
athlete's uh, name, image, likeness, and pay that athlete for it.
And they're getting paid some of the football players. Some
football players are getting paid a really good chunk of change,
some basketball players a good chunk of change. And that's
a that's that was a big leap because now you're
(05:26):
now you're you've gone from when you're when you're an athlete.
You can't even if you're if you're being taken on
a tour and you go to the commissary, you couldn't
be given a donut because I'd be looked at as
paying for the for that athlete and you can't do that. Sure,
so we've gone from no donuts to five million dollars.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I really don't like how off and you're bringing donuts
start conversation when we haven't had supper yet.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
My back a burger? Would that be better? Uh? But
so the settlement comes into play and and what it
amounts to is that there's two parts to it. One
is athletes who who have been who are student athletes
from twenty sixteen up until today. There's a pool of money,
(06:15):
like it's two point five billion, two point seven eight
billion dollars that gets divvied up to those athletes based
on whatever they decide is the is, the is the
the math behind it. They didn't put out the name,
but evidently one athlete is going to be paid one
point eight million dollars of that is going to go
(06:39):
to that athlete. Again, who's who's not a college athlete anymore,
But it's just paying off those athletes from twenty sixteen
on and it's all sports that are that will do it.
So you can, you can if you are an athlete,
and you can apply to get some of this money.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So wait a wait, wait, And I'm sorry if at
home you're following better than I am, but I have
a question. So there's this pool of money and whether
or not you were actually used your name, image and
likeness was actually used in this video game you can
still has nothing to do with money.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It has nothing to do with the video game.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
It doesn't, does not. This is more just about if
you were any student athlete during that time period, you're
theoretically entitled to some of that.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
To some money. Again, don't know, oh and I did.
That is something I did not dig deep into, but
it has. It has a lot to do with the
ni L for that individual when they were at an
athlete and whether or not they whether or not they
decide that there was the the your image was used,
(07:45):
and if it was, this is how much you get.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So there's some sort of formula that somebody using calculate.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
There's a yes. If you if you are on a
swim team and you did you swam one race, there's
a very good chance you're not getting any money of that. Sorry, respect,
they really don't. They really accept it for the Olympics.
Once the Olympics hit, then they get something Motlastics. Yes,
(08:13):
what that? And uh and uh and judo. You don't
see a lot of judo.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
You know who else I was gonna say, you know
who else isn't getting any respect at the Olympics anymore
or even at the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Break dancing yep, no more. Break. They gave it a go.
Why they did, we don't know. But yes, And if
you missed out, if.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
You miss your story, I always hijack things.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
It's but the So that's the that's the one side
of the settlement. The other side of the settlement is
that for the next ten years, uh, the athletic departments
of colleges and it's it's work stick with Division One
at this point, our are allowed to spend the first
year twenty point five million dollars. What they're called is
(08:59):
revenue sharing, which basically they can set up contracts with
their athletes in their various sports so it doesn't matter
so across all the colleges. The athletic department itself gets
this twenty point five million dollars.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Who decides what sports get what percentage?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
That is the that is the crux of the whole thing.
That's what the athletic directors are now tasked with is
to decide how that money is diving up. So they're
saying right now, like, of that twenty point five million,
sixty five to seventy percent is going to go to football,
fifteen percent is going to go to men's basketball, and
(09:41):
then women's basketball will get a smaller chunk and then
the rest will be to your other sports.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Is that true for Okay? So is that varied by school?
Like what if you're like Duke and you're known for basketball,
You're probably going to give more money to your.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Basketball, You to give more than it depends on the
school and what you do. You brought up Minnesota, Minnesota
probably give a higher chunk possibly to hockey, sure than
than the other then and there might be in more
of a mixch for that, but it's up that's up
the athletic director to kind of put that through.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Which so they are truly being paid to play, now, yes,
but not all athletes. So if you're an athlete and
you're a softball player, you don't automatically get some percentage
of that money. If the athletic director says, your program
isn't going to get any of.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
This, you're not going to get any of it. Interesting
and and.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Actually they've always wielded so much power, but this is
like epic level.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Correct, And that's where so the athletic directors now, Now,
so you have all these coaches of all these teams
are going to the athletic director pleading their case why
they should do, why they should get money, and the
athletic director the the other side of it is again,
this isn't this is an expense from the their pool
of their revenue and expenses. This is an expense that
(11:00):
they have to somehow cover.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Okay, So so the NCAA isn't giving the colleges this
twenty one million dollars or whatever, right, they have to
generate it with their own program.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
To generate it, they have to.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Allocate that money back to the players.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Correct and that so they have to either generate that
money to have it available or they have to cut
programs to reduce reduce expenses.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So you know, to GCU and they're a D one school,
although you know they're in the whack or something like that,
so I know that, Like they don't even have a
football team. So that's their claim to fame in that
area obviously is basketball. But they also had a really
good men's volleyball team that was I believe national champions
(11:49):
once or twice. Maybe not, but they're a very good team.
And they announced this year that they're done with volleyball
because they the program they can't sustain.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It right and that and that's where that's where the
the issue is coming to play. And I you know
they they Alabama is one university that they talked about specifically,
and this is something I didn't know, but you know,
you think about Alabama. They're getting a ton of money
and the football program gets a lot of money from
you know, you got your media and you got your
(12:19):
naming rights things like that. But they were actually running
at an almost deficit in their sports department from from
in athletics, and again that's because they have so many
different sports that are non revenue generating that you know,
it kind of took all the revenue out of you know,
the revenue that came in was went down to these
(12:41):
other sports as well. So now they're thinking, Okay, I
have to pay out this twenty point five million, let
me get let me And before I go any further
with that, a school has the ability to spend up
to twenty point five million dollars. They don't have to
spend that amount. They don't have to spend they don't
have to spend a dime. They're just allowed to spend
(13:03):
that and that amount is going to go up over
the next ten years. This is a ten year settlement,
so over the next ten years it's going to keep
going up. There's a formula. It's based on revenue from
the Power five conferences, and we're not going to get
into that, but you don't have to. But the problem
is is that if a school wants to compete, wants
(13:25):
to bring in the best players and pay them, they're
going to have to use that money in order to
make sure that they can still get there to get
the number of players. So it's really going to be challenging.
And then you throw on top of it the hole
you brought the transfer portal and how students just can
go from place to place depending on where they if
they're not happy at one place. We had it happen
(13:47):
this year where in Tennessee, their quarterback decided, you know what,
he held out a college quarterback held out for more
nil money and Tennessee said, no, not going to do it,
you can go elsewhere. Well, he ended up going elsewhere,
and he ended up getting a fraction of what he
was going to get if he stayed at Tennessee. But
(14:08):
that's what you're going to be getting, is you're going
to have bidding wars for these players, and these these
ads are going to say, Okay, I have X amount
of money that I've said I'm going to play for.
Let's stick with football because that's the big one. And
there might be a player out there that he really wants.
And the player is going to say, well, you know what,
is this school over here offer me two point five million.
(14:30):
If you can top that, I'll come and play for you.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Well, and even Okay, if you take the transfer portal
out of it, because that's complicated things in a way
that no one could have predicted, or maybe they did.
But how does Title nine play into this, because right
we still have the legal obligation to, you know, adhere
to Title nine. I remember back in twenty twenty, the
(14:54):
U of M cut men's gymnastics, tennis, and indoor track
and field, and part of that decision had to do
with revenue sharing, but it also had to do with
the fact that they for Title nine reasons, they had
to keep things even. So I have to believe that's
going to play into this as well.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
It is going to play into it, and it's going
to the one There was one gal and she she
was I think a basketball player in Texas who's part
of the original settlement, and she brought up the Title
nine piece of it and said, you know what, we
still need to have Title nine for you know, for
(15:32):
for scholarships and for equality. But she said, but I
totally get the fact that women's sports do not bring
in the money that men's sports do, and so we
have to understand that as a as a as a
as a woman's sport, we're probably not going to get
as much of the revenue coming to us as the
(15:52):
football team, the men's basketball team, things like that, and
and she she was fine with it. Now, that does
bring up the point of whether or not, and I
know I'm jumping all over the place, but it's where
I go whether or not if an athlete wants to
be a part of it as an as an athlete,
(16:14):
you don't have to agree with this settlement process. You
can opt out of it. You can say, look this one,
this doesn't work for me at all. You can opt
out and you can start your own settlement on your own.
Or you're going to get a group of people that say,
you know what we're going to We're going to have
our own we're going to go get our own lawyers,
and we're going to go back at the NCAA and
say whatever you put together for this here, no it
(16:36):
doesn't work, it's not fair, and we're going to go
after something else.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
The most confusing part for me because I thought I
had my head wrapped around this, but then when you
mentioned that part of it, I thought, how does that work?
So you're a senior in high school that just graduated
this spring and you're going off to play sports somewhere
at a at a Division I school and there's this
whole revenue sharing thing that's happening. How do you opt
(17:04):
out and still make the team? Like, how do you
say this isn't working for me, but I still want
to be part of that program, or like, you know,
I can't. I can't believe they're gonna have different deals
with different groups of people. So you know what I mean, Like,
whatever they decide is the rule for the NCAA or
for Division I schools or Division two to whatever the
(17:25):
case going to be, right, I don't understand how they're
going to sort that out.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Well, where it comes into play really is that there
is a in the in this settlement, it states that
if a certain number of athletes opt out, and we
don't know what that number is, it's it's wasn't given
out by as far as I know, not available. But
if a certain number of athletes opt out of it,
(17:51):
then the settlement itself is gone and they start all
over again. So and you know it's like, I let's
just say, uh, ten percent of the Division one athletes,
If ten percent of the Division one athletes come together
as one and say this doesn't work, we're getting we're
(18:11):
we're opting out of it. Then that settlement goes away,
and if the whole thing has to start all over again,
there's a new there's a new process that happens. Now.
There is this group called athletes dot org which was
put together and it's basically it's it's about allowing athletes
in college and colleges to come together to have a
(18:34):
say in how that money is spent. So this athletes
dot org might be one at the University of Minnesota,
and these athletes kind of all get together, form a group,
go to the athletic director and say we wanted we
we want to have a say in how this whole
process works. I'm assuming that if a number of enough
of these people on in this athletes dot org organization
(18:58):
come together and say, hey, you know what, let's all
opt out kind of like a union thing, and and
say we're just gonna work. Let's all get together and
let's if we get enough people, then we can get
even a better settlement down the road.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Well, didn't you say too that if if this happens,
and it sounds like it is going to happen in
some form or another, that they won't be issuing scholarships
any lot.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Right, Yeah, there's no there's so the scholarship part of
it goes away. So a couple of things and we'll
stick with football. Currently, the current situation is the teams
can have one hundred and twenty players on their roster,
and the of those of those one hundred and twenty,
there's eighty five. They get eighty five that could be
(19:41):
scholarship players, and then you have a walk on players.
What this does is it actually eliminates the scholarship. It
limits the team that can only Now the teams can
only have one hundred and five players, but they're technically
all on scholarship or could be on scholarship because you
can pay all one hundred and five of them at
(20:05):
a certain dollar amount. So the scholarships have gone away,
but you can but now you can still pay them.
Now they can still get they can still get academic scholarships.
And and one thing I can It's been on the
back of my mind that I had to make sure
I brought up the nil as we know it still exists,
(20:26):
so I.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Can still get so they can see it.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
They can still on top of getting the revenue sharing
from the school. They can get NIL money from your
local car dealership, who can then pay them as well.
So that's the other enticement of of you know, of
you have a quarterback that wants to come to your
college and they say, well, you know, I need to
get paid two million dollars, and you can say, well,
(20:49):
I'm gonna give you one million in revenue sharing and
I got another million and a half in the NIL
collective that I can pay it. Now the NIL is
they're tightening that up as well, based on this settlement
where there's a council now that is overseeing the NIL
So anybody who makes more than six hundred dollars in
NIL payments has to go to this council, and the
(21:12):
council takes a look at the agreement and takes a
look at everything that goes on and says, okay, yes
this is legit or no it's not. Now the other
side of it is that's if that individual reports to
this council that they're getting NIL money, okay, nothing that
says that they can get like five hundred thousand dollars
from somebody and just not report it.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Not that anyone cares, but I just want to admit
that I've done a complete about face on this whole topic. Okay,
during this podcast. At the beginning of the podcast, I
was like, Yeah, these schools make a ton of money
in the backs of these athletes. They should get paid.
But I've changed my mind completely. I do think that
the athletes should be allowed to make money using their
(21:55):
name imaged likeness. I think that the school should stay
out of it. I don't think there should be a council.
Think that you are in charge of your own entity,
and if you can create something that's marketable and people
want to pay you for that, I mean within the
confines of the code of conduct for being a member
of the team, or being a member of the NCAA
(22:16):
and all those things. Right, I'm not saying, you know,
you start up your only fans page or whatever the case,
but I think they should be totally separate thing. I
don't think anybody should be paying these athletes out of
this money. I think leave it the way it was
with scholarships. Let students come play the sport. The transfer
(22:36):
portal isn't going to go away. It should have sound
like it that's already muddied the water. And then if
people are good enough and smart enough, and gosh darn'
it people like you. No, I'm just kidding, But I mean,
if they are and they can make money outside of that,
then they shouldn't be prohibited from doing so. But the
(22:57):
idea of funneling cashed individual plays in this way, it
seems like it is a nightmare and it's not going
to help It's certainly not going to help teams. It's
not going to help individual athletes really, because now it's
just gonna be a big fight. It's gonna be a
big cash grab.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Well, yeah, because you're gonna get You're gonna get athletes
on teams. You're gonna say, one, one athlete's going to
be getting, you know, five thousand dollars, and then another
person's gonna sitting back going, well, I'm only making two.
Why am I only making two and he's making five.
I'm better than he is. I got more.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
It's just going to the pros. I mean, and look
crimea river, right, Like, I'm not feeling bad for professional
athletes for not being paid fairly or making enough money.
I mean, that's a whole separate podcast about how we
spend money as a society and all of that, but
at the end of the day, it's a market. People
pay for it. Owners and teams are making a ton
(23:56):
of money. The difference is this is supposed to be
about school.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
And that one that left a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I get that. But at the end of the day,
they are student athletes, and I guess what you said before.
I mean, if they are student athletes and we're putting
student ahead of athletes, then we shouldn't be paying them
like it's a job. Then again, I've got issues with
coaches and some of the requirements and all that kind
of stuff, because it really should be about being a student.
(24:24):
And it isn't fair that they make all this money,
as I think I've said for the third time now,
on the backs of these athletes because I'm redundant. But
on the other hand, they should be free to make money.
I don't know. This is a mess.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
It is a mess. I don't know that if this
whole revenue sharing thing is the way to go or not.
The NIL I get again, was a ton of the
money that was given to these athletes have nothing to
do with their name, image and likeness. Was it just
simply boosters the NIL collective? So is what they're called,
(25:01):
which puts together all of this money and then doles
it out to these individuals. I mean, it's it's basically,
it's basically giving money to people for not they're not
they're not they're not going to the car dealership and
helping them sell cars or being the face of a
car dealership. They're just getting money. That's all it is.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
And it's kind of like, I mean, the whole idea
behind this from the get go was that so boosters
and whatnot couldn't just encourage players to come play for
their alma mater or whatever the case is.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So but basically it's what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
That's kind of it's exactly it's.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
It's it's it's just legalized boosters giving people money. And
that's what was decided that has to happen. That that, Okay,
the schools are making money off of these people, so
these people should be able to get money off of
the side. And I I mean, don't get me wrong,
the fact that athletes could not get jobs while they're playing,
(26:03):
because that might be looked at as them being you know,
getting money from people and then they don't show up
at work. But they still get money. But some athletes
actually still need to get jobs, but they weren't allowed
to do so that that's ridiculous and so that had
to go away. So there's it's this is this is this.
It's akin to the college football playoff scenario where it
(26:27):
changes every year. They're tweaking it. They're trying to find
out what's the best formula, what's the best way to
go about it. College basketball is doing the same thing.
Should we add more teams? Whilest we do that, we
have not seen the last of what this is going
to look like. Uh, but it is. I think I've
(26:48):
successfully caused more questions to our listeners than I've actually
given answers to which is okay, it is.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I mean, I think this is a great topic, especially
for me, because I didn't fully understand it. I don't
understand it a lot more than when we started. Well, no,
because to your point, No, I mean, I think I
have a better understand understanding of it, But I also
have more questions. And I think that you you already
stated that, and I hope our listeners have more questions
(27:18):
to you.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And you know what, and there's there's a ton of
information out there, but again, there's there. When you look
at all the information that's out there, it's basically what
I gave you, which leads to more questions that they
don't have answers to because they just don't know what
this beast is going to look like and they don't
know how they're going to manage it. The athletic directors
(27:40):
are right now, not in a panic, but they're looking
at it going this is this is going to be
a cluster.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I do have one question that we need to research
at some point. Okay, and I'm sure one of our
very bright listeners knows the answer to this, But what
is the equivalent of the NC double A for theater
kids in college? Because our theater kids prevented from going
and getting being added to a production on Broadway and
(28:11):
getting paid, or being in a movie or a commercial
because because I'm just curious, I mean, it's a we
don't have. I mean, and I'm not a theater kid,
not that I have anything problem with it, but I
don't know much about that realm, but it is a
similar situation. I would argue that colleges probably aren't making
a ton of money from theater productions, but maybe maybe
(28:33):
they are not to the level of like Alabama football.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I don't, but I don't. Well, that is a good
question there. I can tell you that the theater is
not governed by the NCAA.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Well, right, that's the National Collegiate Athletic Association. But that's
what I'm saying. What is the equivalent to it for theaters.
I'm sure somebody there's something. There's probably a college level
of organization. Anyway, we will attend to that.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Stay tuned for an podcast where we will delve into
college theater.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
No, I'm just saying, like might throw.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
In some orchestra. We might. The band is part of
the NCAA, I believe, So we're not going to touch that.
The marching band people. Oh because Georgia Southern Grambling, those
bands that actually people come to see. Maybe they should
get paid too, right, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I'm just saying. I mean, it isn't all about the sports.
As much as I love sports, the whole world shouldn't
be all about the sports sports sports, and sometimes it
feels that way.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
One one thing, that a couple of items that we
were going to get to, but this one was chock
full of goodness without its Stay tuned for not only
the podcast on theater, but we're going to delve into
sports gambling. Oh, we're going to delve into the world
of athletes being tormented by fans for not playing well
(29:58):
and not filling up their pocket books.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Right, that is crazy. And you will also find out
what a fliff is. I think that's I think that's
the teaser. Tune in next week to find out about
Sean's obsession with fliff.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
This has been another Curveball production.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
M
Welcome to another Curveball production. We are in the Northern
studio where Sean would say, and it is a wild weather.
I wish it was Wednesday, because that was if you're
listening to it as Wednesday, but we're recording this Monday night.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well we could have said Wednesday.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
No, we could have, but then people would have been like, wait,
what the weather's fine?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Good point, and when we do have very very smart
listeners that would have caught onto that in a heartbeat
for sure. Correct, Sorry, listeners, we won't pull it over. Well,
won't try to pull one over on you.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
We're currently allowing the chicken salad I made to I
don't know, like Mary, the flavors to marry. I think
that the good cooks say. But the beauty of this
is is I'm just along for the ride. Tonight, Sean
is going to treat you to a wonderful discussion about
college sports and the nil situation. And it's not that
(01:07):
I don't care, because I absolutely do. He is just
so much more well versed than I am on this topic,
so take it away.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It's so basically it's not gonna be a discussion. It's
going to be me more of a pontification, a monologue,
A monologue very good with with you know, so I'll
be maybe I'll be the Johnny Carson and you could
be my Ed McMahon.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Fair enough. I just randomly ask question and just tuckle
whatever I say something funny, whether it is or not.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So yeah, the recently the NCAA, there was a settlement
that was that the courts came down with that is
a long time coming. It's it's centers around athletes, college athletes,
whether or not they should be paid, how that whole
(01:58):
thing should work. The NIL name, image and likeness has
been around now for a few years, and that's caused
quite disturb This all began a number of years ago
when it didn't start with EA Sports, but I want
to say it did start with EA Sports when they
(02:20):
came out with their college football video game and I
think it was college Football, I don't know, sixteen or
fifteen or something, and these college players decided was They're like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
You're going to use my name and my likeness in
your game and I'm not getting anything out of this.
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I would just like to say, even though I promised
I wasn't going to say anything this podcast, that this
whole idea, that the transfer portal, the name, image and
likeness situation, the fact that these college kids aren't getting paid,
but some are getting scholarships, some aren't. The whole thing
is a little bit crazy when you can consider the
vast amount of money that is generated through some college
(03:04):
sports and the fact that these colleges are making this
money on the backs of young students slash athletes. Sehn says,
now we need to call them athletes slash students, but
that's for another conversation. But I'm like, yeah, you know what,
it isn't right because half these kids Okay, and I'm
just this is a blanket statement, but a number of
(03:24):
these kids, yes my monologue. Now, a number of these
kids are going to get hurt in college and never
get the opportunity to go play in the pros and
make big money. So if at the end of the day,
you get to play a sport and do what you
love and get paid, why wouldn't we allow them to
do that?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Right? Well, and you know, then the other folks will say, well,
you know, if they're getting scholarships, they're getting paid, they're
you know they're getting education, which you know you go
to some of these schools, that's thirty five forty thousand
dollars a year.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I mean, that's that's peanuts compared to what some of
these understand.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
But it's still they there, they are they were getting paid.
Now again, I'm with you. I think that they that
athletes should get paid. The issue is more around you know,
they you have your football and your basketball. Those are
the sports that make the money, sure, and those are
the athletes that are saying, hey, why am I not
(04:22):
getting paid? But then you have your other sports that
are that are not your revenue generating sports, and they.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Have scholarships and I mean there's some revenue generation in
this market, particularly for hockey, correct, but I mean to
the level of football and basketball. Absolutely not same thing
with baseball.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So this so the settlement came about where athletes basically
sued the NCAA and said, hey, we should be getting paid,
and the courts came down. Now again, you've had the
nil stuff now for a few years where athletes can
and get endorsements from anybody and they can then use
(05:06):
there that those car dealerships for instance, can use an
athlete's uh, name, image, likeness, and pay that athlete for it.
And they're getting paid some of the football players. Some
football players are getting paid a really good chunk of change,
some basketball players a good chunk of change. And that's
a that's that was a big leap because now you're
(05:26):
now you're you've gone from when you're when you're an athlete.
You can't even if you're if you're being taken on
a tour and you go to the commissary, you couldn't
be given a donut because I'd be looked at as
paying for the for that athlete and you can't do that. Sure,
so we've gone from no donuts to five million dollars.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I really don't like how off and you're bringing donuts
start conversation when we haven't had supper yet.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
My back a burger? Would that be better? Uh? But
so the settlement comes into play and and what it
amounts to is that there's two parts to it. One
is athletes who who have been who are student athletes
from twenty sixteen up until today. There's a pool of money,
(06:15):
like it's two point five billion, two point seven eight
billion dollars that gets divvied up to those athletes based
on whatever they decide is the is, the is the
the math behind it. They didn't put out the name,
but evidently one athlete is going to be paid one
point eight million dollars of that is going to go
(06:39):
to that athlete. Again, who's who's not a college athlete anymore,
But it's just paying off those athletes from twenty sixteen
on and it's all sports that are that will do it.
So you can, you can if you are an athlete,
and you can apply to get some of this money.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So wait a wait, wait, And I'm sorry if at
home you're following better than I am, but I have
a question. So there's this pool of money and whether
or not you were actually used your name, image and
likeness was actually used in this video game you can
still has nothing to do with money.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It has nothing to do with the video game.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
It doesn't, does not. This is more just about if
you were any student athlete during that time period, you're
theoretically entitled to some of that.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
To some money. Again, don't know, oh and I did.
That is something I did not dig deep into, but
it has. It has a lot to do with the
ni L for that individual when they were at an
athlete and whether or not they whether or not they
decide that there was the the your image was used,
(07:45):
and if it was, this is how much you get.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So there's some sort of formula that somebody using calculate.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
There's a yes. If you if you are on a
swim team and you did you swam one race, there's
a very good chance you're not getting any money of that. Sorry, respect,
they really don't. They really accept it for the Olympics.
Once the Olympics hit, then they get something Motlastics. Yes,
(08:13):
what that? And uh and uh and judo. You don't
see a lot of judo.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
You know who else I was gonna say, you know
who else isn't getting any respect at the Olympics anymore
or even at the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Break dancing yep, no more. Break. They gave it a go.
Why they did, we don't know. But yes, And if
you missed out, if.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
You miss your story, I always hijack things.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
It's but the So that's the that's the one side
of the settlement. The other side of the settlement is
that for the next ten years, uh, the athletic departments
of colleges and it's it's work stick with Division One
at this point, our are allowed to spend the first
year twenty point five million dollars. What they're called is
(08:59):
revenue sharing, which basically they can set up contracts with
their athletes in their various sports so it doesn't matter
so across all the colleges. The athletic department itself gets
this twenty point five million dollars.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Who decides what sports get what percentage?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
That is the that is the crux of the whole thing.
That's what the athletic directors are now tasked with is
to decide how that money is diving up. So they're
saying right now, like, of that twenty point five million,
sixty five to seventy percent is going to go to football,
fifteen percent is going to go to men's basketball, and
(09:41):
then women's basketball will get a smaller chunk and then
the rest will be to your other sports.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Is that true for Okay? So is that varied by school?
Like what if you're like Duke and you're known for basketball,
You're probably going to give more money to your.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Basketball, You to give more than it depends on the
school and what you do. You brought up Minnesota, Minnesota
probably give a higher chunk possibly to hockey, sure than
than the other then and there might be in more
of a mixch for that, but it's up that's up
the athletic director to kind of put that through.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Which so they are truly being paid to play, now, yes,
but not all athletes. So if you're an athlete and
you're a softball player, you don't automatically get some percentage
of that money. If the athletic director says, your program
isn't going to get any of.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
This, you're not going to get any of it. Interesting
and and.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Actually they've always wielded so much power, but this is
like epic level.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Correct, And that's where so the athletic directors now, Now,
so you have all these coaches of all these teams
are going to the athletic director pleading their case why
they should do, why they should get money, and the
athletic director the the other side of it is again,
this isn't this is an expense from the their pool
of their revenue and expenses. This is an expense that
(11:00):
they have to somehow cover.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Okay, So so the NCAA isn't giving the colleges this
twenty one million dollars or whatever, right, they have to
generate it with their own program.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
To generate it, they have to.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Allocate that money back to the players.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Correct and that so they have to either generate that
money to have it available or they have to cut
programs to reduce reduce expenses.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So you know, to GCU and they're a D one school,
although you know they're in the whack or something like that,
so I know that, Like they don't even have a
football team. So that's their claim to fame in that
area obviously is basketball. But they also had a really
good men's volleyball team that was I believe national champions
(11:49):
once or twice. Maybe not, but they're a very good team.
And they announced this year that they're done with volleyball
because they the program they can't sustain.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It right and that and that's where that's where the
the issue is coming to play. And I you know
they they Alabama is one university that they talked about specifically,
and this is something I didn't know, but you know,
you think about Alabama. They're getting a ton of money
and the football program gets a lot of money from
you know, you got your media and you got your
(12:19):
naming rights things like that. But they were actually running
at an almost deficit in their sports department from from
in athletics, and again that's because they have so many
different sports that are non revenue generating that you know,
it kind of took all the revenue out of you know,
the revenue that came in was went down to these
(12:41):
other sports as well. So now they're thinking, Okay, I
have to pay out this twenty point five million, let
me get let me And before I go any further
with that, a school has the ability to spend up
to twenty point five million dollars. They don't have to
spend that amount. They don't have to spend they don't
have to spend a dime. They're just allowed to spend
(13:03):
that and that amount is going to go up over
the next ten years. This is a ten year settlement,
so over the next ten years it's going to keep
going up. There's a formula. It's based on revenue from
the Power five conferences, and we're not going to get
into that, but you don't have to. But the problem
is is that if a school wants to compete, wants
(13:25):
to bring in the best players and pay them, they're
going to have to use that money in order to
make sure that they can still get there to get
the number of players. So it's really going to be challenging.
And then you throw on top of it the hole
you brought the transfer portal and how students just can
go from place to place depending on where they if
they're not happy at one place. We had it happen
(13:47):
this year where in Tennessee, their quarterback decided, you know what,
he held out a college quarterback held out for more
nil money and Tennessee said, no, not going to do it,
you can go elsewhere. Well, he ended up going elsewhere,
and he ended up getting a fraction of what he
was going to get if he stayed at Tennessee. But
(14:08):
that's what you're going to be getting, is you're going
to have bidding wars for these players, and these these
ads are going to say, Okay, I have X amount
of money that I've said I'm going to play for.
Let's stick with football because that's the big one. And
there might be a player out there that he really wants.
And the player is going to say, well, you know what,
is this school over here offer me two point five million.
(14:30):
If you can top that, I'll come and play for you.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Well, and even Okay, if you take the transfer portal
out of it, because that's complicated things in a way
that no one could have predicted, or maybe they did.
But how does Title nine play into this, because right
we still have the legal obligation to, you know, adhere
to Title nine. I remember back in twenty twenty, the
(14:54):
U of M cut men's gymnastics, tennis, and indoor track
and field, and part of that decision had to do
with revenue sharing, but it also had to do with
the fact that they for Title nine reasons, they had
to keep things even. So I have to believe that's
going to play into this as well.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
It is going to play into it, and it's going
to the one There was one gal and she she
was I think a basketball player in Texas who's part
of the original settlement, and she brought up the Title
nine piece of it and said, you know what, we
still need to have Title nine for you know, for
(15:32):
for scholarships and for equality. But she said, but I
totally get the fact that women's sports do not bring
in the money that men's sports do, and so we
have to understand that as a as a as a
as a woman's sport, we're probably not going to get
as much of the revenue coming to us as the
(15:52):
football team, the men's basketball team, things like that, and
and she she was fine with it. Now, that does
bring up the point of whether or not, and I
know I'm jumping all over the place, but it's where
I go whether or not if an athlete wants to
be a part of it as an as an athlete,
(16:14):
you don't have to agree with this settlement process. You
can opt out of it. You can say, look this one,
this doesn't work for me at all. You can opt
out and you can start your own settlement on your own.
Or you're going to get a group of people that say,
you know what we're going to We're going to have
our own we're going to go get our own lawyers,
and we're going to go back at the NCAA and
say whatever you put together for this here, no it
(16:36):
doesn't work, it's not fair, and we're going to go
after something else.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
The most confusing part for me because I thought I
had my head wrapped around this, but then when you
mentioned that part of it, I thought, how does that work?
So you're a senior in high school that just graduated
this spring and you're going off to play sports somewhere
at a at a Division I school and there's this
whole revenue sharing thing that's happening. How do you opt
(17:04):
out and still make the team? Like, how do you
say this isn't working for me, but I still want
to be part of that program, or like, you know,
I can't. I can't believe they're gonna have different deals
with different groups of people. So you know what I mean, Like,
whatever they decide is the rule for the NCAA or
for Division I schools or Division two to whatever the
(17:25):
case going to be, right, I don't understand how they're
going to sort that out.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Well, where it comes into play really is that there
is a in the in this settlement, it states that
if a certain number of athletes opt out, and we
don't know what that number is, it's it's wasn't given
out by as far as I know, not available. But
if a certain number of athletes opt out of it,
(17:51):
then the settlement itself is gone and they start all
over again. So and you know it's like, I let's
just say, uh, ten percent of the Division one athletes,
If ten percent of the Division one athletes come together
as one and say this doesn't work, we're getting we're
(18:11):
we're opting out of it. Then that settlement goes away,
and if the whole thing has to start all over again,
there's a new there's a new process that happens. Now.
There is this group called athletes dot org which was
put together and it's basically it's it's about allowing athletes
in college and colleges to come together to have a
(18:34):
say in how that money is spent. So this athletes
dot org might be one at the University of Minnesota,
and these athletes kind of all get together, form a group,
go to the athletic director and say we wanted we
we want to have a say in how this whole
process works. I'm assuming that if a number of enough
of these people on in this athletes dot org organization
(18:58):
come together and say, hey, you know what, let's all
opt out kind of like a union thing, and and
say we're just gonna work. Let's all get together and
let's if we get enough people, then we can get
even a better settlement down the road.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Well, didn't you say too that if if this happens,
and it sounds like it is going to happen in
some form or another, that they won't be issuing scholarships
any lot.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Right, Yeah, there's no there's so the scholarship part of
it goes away. So a couple of things and we'll
stick with football. Currently, the current situation is the teams
can have one hundred and twenty players on their roster,
and the of those of those one hundred and twenty,
there's eighty five. They get eighty five that could be
(19:41):
scholarship players, and then you have a walk on players.
What this does is it actually eliminates the scholarship. It
limits the team that can only Now the teams can
only have one hundred and five players, but they're technically
all on scholarship or could be on scholarship because you
can pay all one hundred and five of them at
(20:05):
a certain dollar amount. So the scholarships have gone away,
but you can but now you can still pay them.
Now they can still get they can still get academic scholarships.
And and one thing I can It's been on the
back of my mind that I had to make sure
I brought up the nil as we know it still exists,
(20:26):
so I.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Can still get so they can see it.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
They can still on top of getting the revenue sharing
from the school. They can get NIL money from your
local car dealership, who can then pay them as well.
So that's the other enticement of of you know, of
you have a quarterback that wants to come to your
college and they say, well, you know, I need to
get paid two million dollars, and you can say, well,
(20:49):
I'm gonna give you one million in revenue sharing and
I got another million and a half in the NIL
collective that I can pay it. Now the NIL is
they're tightening that up as well, based on this settlement
where there's a council now that is overseeing the NIL
So anybody who makes more than six hundred dollars in
NIL payments has to go to this council, and the
(21:12):
council takes a look at the agreement and takes a
look at everything that goes on and says, okay, yes
this is legit or no it's not. Now the other
side of it is that's if that individual reports to
this council that they're getting NIL money, okay, nothing that
says that they can get like five hundred thousand dollars
from somebody and just not report it.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Not that anyone cares, but I just want to admit
that I've done a complete about face on this whole topic. Okay,
during this podcast. At the beginning of the podcast, I
was like, Yeah, these schools make a ton of money
in the backs of these athletes. They should get paid.
But I've changed my mind completely. I do think that
the athletes should be allowed to make money using their
(21:55):
name imaged likeness. I think that the school should stay
out of it. I don't think there should be a council.
Think that you are in charge of your own entity,
and if you can create something that's marketable and people
want to pay you for that, I mean within the
confines of the code of conduct for being a member
of the team, or being a member of the NCAA
(22:16):
and all those things. Right, I'm not saying, you know,
you start up your only fans page or whatever the case,
but I think they should be totally separate thing. I
don't think anybody should be paying these athletes out of
this money. I think leave it the way it was
with scholarships. Let students come play the sport. The transfer
(22:36):
portal isn't going to go away. It should have sound
like it that's already muddied the water. And then if
people are good enough and smart enough, and gosh darn'
it people like you. No, I'm just kidding, But I mean,
if they are and they can make money outside of that,
then they shouldn't be prohibited from doing so. But the
(22:57):
idea of funneling cashed individual plays in this way, it
seems like it is a nightmare and it's not going
to help It's certainly not going to help teams. It's
not going to help individual athletes really, because now it's
just gonna be a big fight. It's gonna be a
big cash grab.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Well, yeah, because you're gonna get You're gonna get athletes
on teams. You're gonna say, one, one athlete's going to
be getting, you know, five thousand dollars, and then another
person's gonna sitting back going, well, I'm only making two.
Why am I only making two and he's making five.
I'm better than he is. I got more.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
It's just going to the pros. I mean, and look
crimea river, right, Like, I'm not feeling bad for professional
athletes for not being paid fairly or making enough money.
I mean, that's a whole separate podcast about how we
spend money as a society and all of that, but
at the end of the day, it's a market. People
pay for it. Owners and teams are making a ton
(23:56):
of money. The difference is this is supposed to be
about school.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
And that one that left a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I get that. But at the end of the day,
they are student athletes, and I guess what you said before.
I mean, if they are student athletes and we're putting
student ahead of athletes, then we shouldn't be paying them
like it's a job. Then again, I've got issues with
coaches and some of the requirements and all that kind
of stuff, because it really should be about being a student.
(24:24):
And it isn't fair that they make all this money,
as I think I've said for the third time now,
on the backs of these athletes because I'm redundant. But
on the other hand, they should be free to make money.
I don't know. This is a mess.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
It is a mess. I don't know that if this
whole revenue sharing thing is the way to go or not.
The NIL I get again, was a ton of the
money that was given to these athletes have nothing to
do with their name, image and likeness. Was it just
simply boosters the NIL collective? So is what they're called,
(25:01):
which puts together all of this money and then doles
it out to these individuals. I mean, it's it's basically,
it's basically giving money to people for not they're not
they're not they're not going to the car dealership and
helping them sell cars or being the face of a
car dealership. They're just getting money. That's all it is.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
And it's kind of like, I mean, the whole idea
behind this from the get go was that so boosters
and whatnot couldn't just encourage players to come play for
their alma mater or whatever the case is.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So but basically it's what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
That's kind of it's exactly it's.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
It's it's it's just legalized boosters giving people money. And
that's what was decided that has to happen. That that, Okay,
the schools are making money off of these people, so
these people should be able to get money off of
the side. And I I mean, don't get me wrong,
the fact that athletes could not get jobs while they're playing,
(26:03):
because that might be looked at as them being you know,
getting money from people and then they don't show up
at work. But they still get money. But some athletes
actually still need to get jobs, but they weren't allowed
to do so that that's ridiculous and so that had
to go away. So there's it's this is this is this.
It's akin to the college football playoff scenario where it
(26:27):
changes every year. They're tweaking it. They're trying to find
out what's the best formula, what's the best way to
go about it. College basketball is doing the same thing.
Should we add more teams? Whilest we do that, we
have not seen the last of what this is going
to look like. Uh, but it is. I think I've
(26:48):
successfully caused more questions to our listeners than I've actually
given answers to which is okay, it is.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I mean, I think this is a great topic, especially
for me, because I didn't fully understand it. I don't
understand it a lot more than when we started. Well, no,
because to your point, No, I mean, I think I
have a better understand understanding of it, But I also
have more questions. And I think that you you already
stated that, and I hope our listeners have more questions
(27:18):
to you.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And you know what, and there's there's a ton of
information out there, but again, there's there. When you look
at all the information that's out there, it's basically what
I gave you, which leads to more questions that they
don't have answers to because they just don't know what
this beast is going to look like and they don't
know how they're going to manage it. The athletic directors
(27:40):
are right now, not in a panic, but they're looking
at it going this is this is going to be
a cluster.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I do have one question that we need to research
at some point. Okay, and I'm sure one of our
very bright listeners knows the answer to this, But what
is the equivalent of the NC double A for theater
kids in college? Because our theater kids prevented from going
and getting being added to a production on Broadway and
(28:11):
getting paid, or being in a movie or a commercial
because because I'm just curious, I mean, it's a we
don't have. I mean, and I'm not a theater kid,
not that I have anything problem with it, but I
don't know much about that realm, but it is a
similar situation. I would argue that colleges probably aren't making
a ton of money from theater productions, but maybe maybe
(28:33):
they are not to the level of like Alabama football.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I don't, but I don't. Well, that is a good
question there. I can tell you that the theater is
not governed by the NCAA.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Well, right, that's the National Collegiate Athletic Association. But that's
what I'm saying. What is the equivalent to it for theaters.
I'm sure somebody there's something. There's probably a college level
of organization. Anyway, we will attend to that.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Stay tuned for an podcast where we will delve into
college theater.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
No, I'm just saying, like might throw.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
In some orchestra. We might. The band is part of
the NCAA, I believe, So we're not going to touch that.
The marching band people. Oh because Georgia Southern Grambling, those
bands that actually people come to see. Maybe they should
get paid too, right, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I'm just saying. I mean, it isn't all about the sports.
As much as I love sports, the whole world shouldn't
be all about the sports sports sports, and sometimes it
feels that way.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
One one thing, that a couple of items that we
were going to get to, but this one was chock
full of goodness without its Stay tuned for not only
the podcast on theater, but we're going to delve into
sports gambling. Oh, we're going to delve into the world
of athletes being tormented by fans for not playing well
(29:58):
and not filling up their pocket books.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Right, that is crazy. And you will also find out
what a fliff is. I think that's I think that's
the teaser. Tune in next week to find out about
Sean's obsession with fliff.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
This has been another Curveball production.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
M
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