January 10, 2025 • 23 mins
Hide your daughters...and your moms Hollywood Undead is here! Charlie Scene, Johnny 3 Tears, and J-Dog join me for episode 400 of Cutter's Rockcast. They do have a fantastic new song out called Hollywood Forever and it's fitting that they join me from a house in L.A. where they are working on new music, and dealing with the L.A. wildfires. This gets weird, it gets flirty and it gets serious. Enjoy a very in-depth conversation with one of the best bands that Rap Metal has ever produced.
This conversation is also part of my radio show The Cutting Edge Countdown as heard on many great rock radio stations around the U.S.
For more go to the website Cuttingedgecountdown.com
This conversation is also part of my radio show The Cutting Edge Countdown as heard on many great rock radio stations around the U.S.
For more go to the website Cuttingedgecountdown.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Attention place and no it cutters rock Cat. Yeah. Are
you in California? Nope, we are.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I've decided that the safest place to be for any
kind of tragic weather phenomenon is Wisconsin, So that is
where I will stay there.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
You go. Yeah, there's no natural disasters there is there.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I mean, once in a while a tornado other than that,
but not like not like Oklahoma to tornadoes.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Like right, well, I moved to Nashville, so now we
got tornadoes that scare the shit out of me.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
But so it's not like that.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, No, dude, Hollywood's a scary place right now.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
We're here right now recording you.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It's just like ashes falling from the sky. It's like
California sucks. That's why we moved.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It's just like it's a mass Jesus.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
It's crazy the images of all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I know.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I just text Mike. I'm like, hey, on a side note,
you know, thanks for setting up interviews and shit, but uh,
are you okay? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Anyway, hey, are you on George?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
You can unmute your mic if you're not going to
be in the same room as me, I guess okay, right,
are you gonna be in here.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Okay, okay, sorry dude, radio, you don't know you're not well?
Why not? But those guys are well. He has Look,
his name is iPhone one moron. That's the best number. Pitch.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
What's up, dude, I'm good man. How you how you
boys been?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, we're out in La recording. The whole city is
fucking burning down, So we'll see how that turns out.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I thought it was going to burn down in the
early nineties. Turns out it just took just took Mother
Nature to do it twenty thirty years later.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
It's wild, dude. It's crazy, man, really bad.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, it's not good. The image I was just, you know,
telling Charlie Man, the images from from here are insane.
I can't even imagine what it's like there, dude.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
It's like you can't even see the skyline, the sun.
It's like army gadding, you know, the sun's like blotted out,
it's all dark. It's just it's just it's.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I said that on my morning show this week. I'm like, if, dude,
if a tornado hits La, I'm like, twenty twelve, I'm done.
I'm done. Get me a plane flying to Mexico.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I know you've got to get out of here, dude.
It's coming for us.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's it's insane. Well, as long as you guys are
staying sif if you guys are recording right.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Now, Yeah, we find a huge emergencies to be inspiring. No,
we didn't know it was going to happen, but yeah
we're here. So it's like, dude, we got a rock
no matter what, until till our ship burns lot down. Dude.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I mean, if you ever wanted to go with a
concept record, I think the world just created one for you.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I know, seriously, you're not even lying. It's crazy, dude.
We've already written. The funny thing is we have a
song called California Dreaming, and it's partially about like the
armageddon of California falling into the ocean and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Now that's from a couple of years ago, though, right,
you had like six.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Years ago, seven years ago maybe even in its kind
of is it that bad? And what's what you're seeing now?
It's like, damn, it's it's pretty bad. But it really
is sad, dude, because like, uh, I don't know, uh,
from what I'm eating, it's like fifty billion dollars in
damage now, and then I don't know what the human
cost is, which is gonna be even worse. So it's
it's it's fucked up, dude.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
To say the least. Well, you know what, right now,
how about we just uh, we'll focus on on the
rock band and and uh, Jade dogg eating cereal? Okay, wait,
what kind of cereal? What kind of cereal?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Though? Grape nuts?
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Dude, you gotta smile through the pan, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I mean, I know we're getting older, but that is
the kind of cereal my grandpa would eat, so I
guess it is.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
It really is. My mom bought it for me. You
pripped me up from the airport.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I got to some great nuts, and I was like, okay, okay,
all right.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Why is your main screen me over there? Dude? You
fucking creep.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Jesus right? Well, hey, you know what. On a side note,
it's good to see you guys. It's been a long time,
so I've been able to sit down and have a conversation.
I think the last time. I don't even know if
I'm gonna get this right, but uh, Johnny, I think
you and I talked at a concert. You know what,
it's probably ten years ago. It's got to be a
long dude. Can I say your hair is as exquisite
(04:22):
as ever?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, you've aged very like
a fine wine. I wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
That's what my fiance tells me her And by the
time people are listening to this, it might be my wife.
So a couple of weeks or.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Ex fiance because me and you are hitting it off.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, there's always the fear of that. There's always the
fear of that or the pleasure of that, depending on
who you ask.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, exactly what do you guys?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Okay? So I mean you guys just released a new
song in Hollywood Forever. First of all, this song is
really good, Like, it's really good.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Thanks brother.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
It's interesting when you take a group like Hollywood and
Dead that you know, for better or worse, have been
funny at times, serious on others, but you know, you
guys have been You guys have kind of done it
all and the whole rat metal thing. As we start to,
you know, get to the ages that we are, can
you do it right? Can you continue to say what
you want to say in that realm and that genre,
(05:20):
and you know what this song proves you can, I think, Yeah, dude, you.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Know it's funny because we think about those things too.
There's certainly things like we would do in the beginning
of our careers because we're all kids, that we probably
wouldn't do now, and like our lives have obviously changed considerably.
We're everybody's married and as kids, when at that time
obviously was the opposite. So it is a weird thing
to consider. But we always just i mean, our our
whole thing is just staying true. The way we did
(05:44):
this from the beginning was just staying true to what
we wanted. It didn't matter. I mean, we had a
record show for three years just basically because we were
being obstinate that we wanted what we wanted. And so
we always just try and keep our integrity and so
if we want to do something, we're going to do it,
come whatever may. After words, and uh, we're still we're
still doing exactly what we want and that's what's most
(06:05):
important to us and hopefully everybody likes it.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
You know, if you're staying true to yourselves, why shel
Why why shelve a record out of curiosity?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Because they didn't like it. They turned it in. They
were like, hey, we want this that the other thing.
We said, no, this is the album and so yeah,
we had to sit around to find someone else who
was willing to release it as is. Yeah, well they
try to take all the cuss words out too.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Which Hollywood record.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
It would be an instrumental record at that point.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
So yeah, it's it's it's become a radio DJ pastime
to edit Hollywood and Dead songs for radio play.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Did you know what's weird about that is everybody I
know cusses in regular conversation incessantly. What does it matter
if it's in a song. I don't know a single
person that doesn't eat fuck. My kids says fuck all
the time. She's five, way to go dad. Thanks.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
I think with that song though, like that song was
actually very easy to write because you know, as we're
as we get older, I want to change, I want
to be different, I want to be better, but it
doesn't seem to be happening. So I still feel the
same as we did when we started the band, So
that song actually.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Was not hard to write.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Like, like you said, oh, we want to say true
to ourselves, like we don't have to try we do.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You know, we're yeah, and you know, honestly, because that
song was really for the fans and stuff, and I
think it's something that was like twenty years in the making,
so once we started, it just kind of poured out.
You know, that all the material was already kind of
within us, so it wasn't It was very much a
natural process with that one.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, it I don't know, and first listen, you know,
you get it. Sometimes you get singles from bands that
have been around the Switch record labels, and I don't know,
for me as a programmer, when I put that hat on,
not just a fan, it's like, okay, well, what are
we going to get now? And I don't know. Listening
to it, it hit me right away, it just did. And
maybe it maybe again, maybe it's because we're the same age.
(07:59):
Maybe it's because you know, we all kind of came
up around the same time, but it really did. I
felt it, oh yeah, which brought me down a wormhole.
And I went and listened to California Dreaming and that
album and specifically I didn't I totally forgot that there
was a song with Jelly Roll on it in House
(08:20):
of Mirrors and like, some of these lyrics are hitting
me different after listening to that song. So that's a
weird sort of go back and go, oh, you know what,
I like this too, And I didn't realize I didn't
realize it the first time to some of the older stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
That's cool. That is cool, man, that's awesome to hear. Dude.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
We never expected that it would do that. It's kind
of it was weird the way it came about because
we're literally just having a conversation with this producer Sokko
and Jars Johnson that we were working with, and we
were just talking about just kind of the band and
where we started and where we're at now, and how
we've changed as people and grown as people, and how
the band is lucky to still be doing this twenty
(09:02):
years later.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
That we're all just like, hey, let's just write about that.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
And the song kind of wrote itself because it just
came from such a real place and something that we
hadn't talked about before.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So it was cool.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
What made it's interesting because when you know, back in
the day it was signed with the record label, go
through the process, become a cog in the wheel. In
twenty twenty five, now, which is weird. By the way,
our first guest of twenty twenty five, so thank you, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Is our yer.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
In this day and age, that's not the case, right.
People can do things on their own a lot easier.
It's a lot easier to technology has caught up with
some of our visions and dreams and ideas. How important
was it for you guys just to give them a
shout out because I think they're still doing it right
to sign with a label like Sumerian Records and work
with them.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Dude, we talk about the biggest mistake we ever made
was signing with the major label to get started. Of course,
we were a bunch of broke kids, so like they
had more money, they offered us more. That was the
only reason we But you do you are a part
of a system. And then when you're in that system,
if they don't decide to push something, you're you're you're
screwed because they could shelve an album. You still have
(10:11):
three albums to go before they let you go. And
there are still indie labels that do it right, that
care about bands and actually, like Ash who owns Samerian,
he loves music. It's not a business. About Hey, I
want to go make money. That's you know, if that happens, great,
But he's a music fan. Whereas these major labels to
like lawyers run them. It has nothing to do with
(10:35):
Oh I like music. I care about this project or
this band. They're just there, Hey, will this make me money?
And you know, you sacrifice a lot on the altar
of profit when you you buy into that system, And
what we're moving towards more now is and the only
way we can stay ourselves is outside of that system,
because you know, if you don't fit in, dude, you're
(10:55):
you're basically trash on the side of the road. Eventually,
as many many bands have found.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Out, I'm curious for a band like Hollywood and Dead,
how much your success uh not necessarily deemed with record sales,
but with concert tickets and merch sales and and you know,
uh street followings and social media followings basically the fans.
Like how much has the fans driven the success of
(11:20):
the band versus the monetary value of it? I guess
for lack of better So I don't want to turn
this into a Wall Street Journal conversation, but you know
what I mean, well, dude.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
I mean the fans, that's the only thing we have
like without them. That was kind of what Hollywood and
Dead Forever was really touching on it. We you know,
we get people who come up to us sometimes and
it's the greatest thing in the world when they say,
you know, this song saved my life, or the song
made me you know, change made me want to change
this or that, and it's it's very inspiring. And it
was kind of us telling them, like, dude, you think
you've done a lot for us, what wait, let let's
(11:51):
tell them what they've done for us. Because without the
band and without them, all of us, none of us
know where we'd be right now. It probably wouldn't be
someplace good, I would guess, And so you know, it
was really an acknowledgment not they tell us what we've
done for them, but it's them who've really changed our
lives and made our lives better and our connection to them.
You know, everybody needs purpose, everybody needs a meaning to
(12:13):
get up in the morning and to go about their lives.
And that knowing that they feel that way about us
makes me go, dude, we need to continue writing. We
need to do those things because it's hard sometimes, especially
on the business side, So the fans are all we have.
Everything else is periphery and who cares. And some day
sometimes you're gonna make money, sometimes you're not. You're gonna
get robbed by managers and lawyers and labels. We've been
(12:35):
robbed by everybody, But the fans are the ones who've
always kept us going. At the end of the day,
labels don't matter. It's just it's about who listens.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Nice was what made you guys decide to release? Obviously
you're working on a record right now. By the way
it sounds, What made you guys decide to release this
song ahead of that being done?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I think you know. The the general function now is
most bands are just putting out singles, and I don't
think we're going to change that. Records they're kind of
they become a thing of the past in the sense
like you know, my car, this is what still trips
me out. My car doesn't have like a CD player
like we grew up. You know, those days are kind
of over. So it's more of a single by single
(13:15):
release process, so which we love because now we can
go in and work on a song for a week
as opposed to writing a song a day for thirty
days and picking a record. We go in and every
detail has gone over, and so we're kind of just
doing it as a song by song thing. We have
a couple ready to go. But Hollywood Forever was the
first song that we wrote for this process or this
(13:36):
this cycle or whatever you want to call it, that
we were like, this is the one, like this is
what we need to go with.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Look at you with a fancy car not having a
CD player.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I'm still try. Yeah, it's a motorcycle. That's why, same.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Bro when it comes to, you know, putting together. Obviously,
this song is a little bit more seriously, it does
have a feeling to it like we already described, are
there still you know some everywhere I go is in
there too, because I think we all need to know
if that Charlie can still show his weani everywhere.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
We go.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Shrinks significantly, and I'll have testicles of shrink because of
t RT, So I can't write about that anymore.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
I think it's discolored now too, like colors over the years.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
His balls are all dark and shit, dude's fucked up.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Yeah, it looks like two California raisins in this fire
out here, I'm.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Gonna regret asking that question. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
No, but we'll still have some party tracks for sure,
because they're fun to make and they're fun.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
To play live.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So absolutely help the big rock anthems and the party tracks.
That's just what we do naturally, and they're both fun
in their own ways.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
My my co host this morning on my morning show,
I told her I was going to talk to you
guys today, and she goes, oh God, I love Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
I'm dead.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
That song everywhere I go Coas still comes up in
my workout play. I'm like, you're you're a middle aged woman.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Okay, maybe she wants to show a cock too. Hey
that's universal, you know it?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Yeah these days too.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, sure, there's a remix every tits that they like
to show. We can make one for the ladies.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Hey there you go, there, you go make it a
make it a do what, get a get a get
a feature on it? Hell yeah, sure, why not? You can?
You guys have never stopped touring obviously. You know the
thing about Hollywood, whether there's a song out, whether there's
(15:41):
a record out, it's like, oh Hollywood on Dead's opening
for that band, or oh Hollywood in Dead's playing at
that club tonight and this year is no different. You
guys have a tour booked with Tech nine. Legend that is.
Tell me about this period because going out, I mean,
obviously a rotten metal but rock or whatever you want
to call it. But Tech nine is is I don't know,
(16:04):
he's like the king of underground hip hop.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
He's He's a legend, dude. He's also, by the way,
one of the coolest dudes you'll ever fucking meet. He's awesome, man,
He's awesome to us, but he's awesome to his fans.
Just watching him like it shows you how to work,
like how you know, because that guy could do anything
he wants at this point, and the way he how
humble he is, and how he treats people, and you
know that dude, he's one of the greatest rappers that's
ever walked the face of the earth. But when you
(16:28):
talk to him, he doesn't put off that vibe at all.
He's just a cool ass dude. Yeah, super cool. We
did a song with him on a couple of records ago.
That's how we met him, and I was I was
blown away because we were kind of nervous. You know,
you grew up listening to somebody like that, and he
was like, we introduced him to white claw. So that's
our claim to Flint fame. He had never had a
white claw. A couple Yeah, a couple of white boys
(16:50):
came in and he had some white claws and he
respected that. Dude, no laws chicken claws. Boy, Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
That's a well you guys can drink if you like that. Well,
you're not on the road. I don't think they have
it in California, but it's definitely all over the Midwest.
Fine carbless And I'm not just saying that because they
sponsor me. I'm saying that because they're delicious.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
What is it.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
It's called carbless and it is. It's cocktails in a can,
you know, but it's not it's not a seltzer. It's
I don't know how to explain it, but it's it's
very good. All the flavors and all that stuff very good.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
The seltzer part is what bugs me. I don't like
it in the you know, the burping and all the
stuff that comes with it.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, that's why when we found this and they're a
Wisconsin company, which is obviously where I'm from, yeah, but
they are all over the Midwest now veteran known company.
But it's it's so good. It's so good carbless carbless.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, okay, aren't we You can bring up six pack
carb bless people make out.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You guys are playing all right, you guys are playing
in my hometown venue. I do have to come, but
I'm bringing my daughter, so so be careful.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
She relaxed.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Okay, set it up, set it off. We're just here.
And then when you guys announced this tour, I'm like, okay,
we'll go so we can see set it off, and
so I can say how to Hollywood, I'm dead, but
so we'll guess I gotta ring my daughter, So no weirdness, guys,
we'll keep it PG broo, Wait when's the show? Yeah,
she'll be sixteen at that time. Yeah, okay, then thirteen.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Sixteen.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Fuck but yeah, that tour obviously happening later this year
and more songs to come. Any idea, any flavors, any
next couple songs to get released?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
What can we expect? Straight fire dude?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Yeah, well we can say we've been working with Tyler Smith.
That's why we're out here now. We're big fans of
his production. He's done amazing work. So we're super excited
about the stuff we're doing with him, and that'll probably
be what's next one of the songs we've done so far.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Gotcha you said you're working with Jars Johnson as well.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yep, yeah, Jaris he's the man, dude, that's our boy.
Fucking awesome.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, he's. I mean, even some of his solo stuff
that has come out in the last couple of years
has been He's sucks.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
A talented dude, really is. He sucks at slang dragons.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Though he's good at music.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
He sucks at like, you know, dragon slang and slay
dragons or pussy dude, But man, can he sing a song? Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Gets no, Hey, sometimes you just gotta stay you gotta
stay in the lane. You know you're good at you know, yeah, yeah,
slade dragons.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Great.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Now, let's put on our nerd caps and go get
a twelve sided die and play some D and D.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Baby, he's not even a real nerd. I was like,
you like Lord of the Rings. He's like, what's the like,
motherfucking liar? That pissed me off? Dude. He didn't even
write Harry Potter bro what's up with that? Yeah, the
report pressed right off his chest.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
You mean Star Wars with wands?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah, dude, Hey, they'll never insult Lord of the Rings
with a Star Wars comparison.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
No, no, no, not Lord of the Rings. Harry Potters. Okay,
Harry Potter is just Lord of the Rings, but with magic,
that's true. Lord of the Rings is a staff technically, exactly. Now,
Lord of the Rings has probably influenced all of them.
It came first.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, no, Lord of It. I mean he's the apex
of fantasy still to this day. Everybody writes a book
as it can be compared to Tolkien.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Absolutely it is, and for good reason. O. Hey, it's
untouchable exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So Jarris is a fake ner Johnny's a real nerd.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
That's what you just learned.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, oh dude, I have like encyclopedic knowledge of the Silmarillion,
Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit, all of it. Bro,
And I'm not talking about the movies. A lot of
people think it's the move the movies are. The movies
were actually well made, but they got nothing on the books.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
He used to do a bunch of below and make
us quiz him, and I'd be like, dude, I go
to bed and.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
He's like me more. That's a true story, dude. I
love Lord of the Rings trivia when I'm on an
eight ball?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Who does it?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Those two things just seem to go together. People think
it's strippers, but no, it's Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
No voices too and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, Jordan,
Charlie's brother, he would do the voice of like an
orc when he asked me the trivia questions, and uh
it was it was good times. Man.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I do have one more music question, because you know
there are obviously you guys have different voices on each song.
When you guys write, how do you figure out whose
versus who's what's what? How do you come together and
write the words together all of that. It's always something
curious to me when there's when there's voice.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Figured that out.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, everybody's like songs kind of picked the person too.
Like we all have like things that were you know,
we we compliment each other on and negate each other on,
so like a lot of the times it's like it's
pretty obvious, and we we're pretty democratic with things. We
write together for the most part, so it's like it's
not like a you know, we all disagree though plenty
of you know, like any good marriage, there's a lot
(22:04):
of compromise. But yeah, you know it is what we
all have, our little gifts and our curses. So we're
just trying and apply those things. Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I can't wait to hear more. And what we've learned
here today is Johnny's gonna steal me from my fiance
so that we can make out. Charlie and I going
to make out with a six pack of Carbleist and I'm.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Just gonna I'm gonna film it all. And yeah, he's
gonna be in the corner with the film the camera.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Yeah, I just like the I'm just like the film guy.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
This lot in this episode is rated triple X. This
episode is rated grinder. Thank you guys so much, Thank
you guys so much for some time.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Man.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I appreciate it and and and good work man, I
said at the beginning, I'll say it again. The song
is good. It's really good. And I hope it continues
to succeed and do well.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
And thank you brother for cutters rock cast. Don't forget
to tune in exactly. M hmm.
Attention place and no it cutters rock Cat. Yeah. Are
you in California? Nope, we are.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I've decided that the safest place to be for any
kind of tragic weather phenomenon is Wisconsin, So that is
where I will stay there.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
You go. Yeah, there's no natural disasters there is there.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I mean, once in a while a tornado other than that,
but not like not like Oklahoma to tornadoes.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Like right, well, I moved to Nashville, so now we
got tornadoes that scare the shit out of me.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
But so it's not like that.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, No, dude, Hollywood's a scary place right now.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
We're here right now recording you.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It's just like ashes falling from the sky. It's like
California sucks. That's why we moved.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It's just like it's a mass Jesus.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
It's crazy the images of all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I know.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I just text Mike. I'm like, hey, on a side note,
you know, thanks for setting up interviews and shit, but uh,
are you okay? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Anyway, hey, are you on George?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
You can unmute your mic if you're not going to
be in the same room as me, I guess okay, right,
are you gonna be in here.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Okay, okay, sorry dude, radio, you don't know you're not well?
Why not? But those guys are well. He has Look,
his name is iPhone one moron. That's the best number. Pitch.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
What's up, dude, I'm good man. How you how you
boys been?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, we're out in La recording. The whole city is
fucking burning down, So we'll see how that turns out.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I thought it was going to burn down in the
early nineties. Turns out it just took just took Mother
Nature to do it twenty thirty years later.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
It's wild, dude. It's crazy, man, really bad.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, it's not good. The image I was just, you know,
telling Charlie Man, the images from from here are insane.
I can't even imagine what it's like there, dude.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
It's like you can't even see the skyline, the sun.
It's like army gadding, you know, the sun's like blotted out,
it's all dark. It's just it's just it's.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I said that on my morning show this week. I'm like, if, dude,
if a tornado hits La, I'm like, twenty twelve, I'm done.
I'm done. Get me a plane flying to Mexico.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I know you've got to get out of here, dude.
It's coming for us.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's it's insane. Well, as long as you guys are
staying sif if you guys are recording right.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Now, Yeah, we find a huge emergencies to be inspiring. No,
we didn't know it was going to happen, but yeah
we're here. So it's like, dude, we got a rock
no matter what, until till our ship burns lot down. Dude.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I mean, if you ever wanted to go with a
concept record, I think the world just created one for you.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I know, seriously, you're not even lying. It's crazy, dude.
We've already written. The funny thing is we have a
song called California Dreaming, and it's partially about like the
armageddon of California falling into the ocean and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Now that's from a couple of years ago, though, right,
you had like six.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Years ago, seven years ago maybe even in its kind
of is it that bad? And what's what you're seeing now?
It's like, damn, it's it's pretty bad. But it really
is sad, dude, because like, uh, I don't know, uh,
from what I'm eating, it's like fifty billion dollars in
damage now, and then I don't know what the human
cost is, which is gonna be even worse. So it's
it's it's fucked up, dude.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
To say the least. Well, you know what, right now,
how about we just uh, we'll focus on on the
rock band and and uh, Jade dogg eating cereal? Okay, wait,
what kind of cereal? What kind of cereal?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Though? Grape nuts?
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Dude, you gotta smile through the pan, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I mean, I know we're getting older, but that is
the kind of cereal my grandpa would eat, so I
guess it is.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
It really is. My mom bought it for me. You
pripped me up from the airport.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I got to some great nuts, and I was like, okay, okay,
all right.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Why is your main screen me over there? Dude? You
fucking creep.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Jesus right? Well, hey, you know what. On a side note,
it's good to see you guys. It's been a long time,
so I've been able to sit down and have a conversation.
I think the last time. I don't even know if
I'm gonna get this right, but uh, Johnny, I think
you and I talked at a concert. You know what,
it's probably ten years ago. It's got to be a
long dude. Can I say your hair is as exquisite
(04:22):
as ever?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, you've aged very like
a fine wine. I wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
That's what my fiance tells me her And by the
time people are listening to this, it might be my wife.
So a couple of weeks or.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Ex fiance because me and you are hitting it off.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, there's always the fear of that. There's always the
fear of that or the pleasure of that, depending on
who you ask.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, exactly what do you guys?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Okay? So I mean you guys just released a new
song in Hollywood Forever. First of all, this song is
really good, Like, it's really good.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Thanks brother.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
It's interesting when you take a group like Hollywood and
Dead that you know, for better or worse, have been
funny at times, serious on others, but you know, you
guys have been You guys have kind of done it
all and the whole rat metal thing. As we start to,
you know, get to the ages that we are, can
you do it right? Can you continue to say what
you want to say in that realm and that genre,
(05:20):
and you know what this song proves you can, I think, Yeah, dude, you.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Know it's funny because we think about those things too.
There's certainly things like we would do in the beginning
of our careers because we're all kids, that we probably
wouldn't do now, and like our lives have obviously changed considerably.
We're everybody's married and as kids, when at that time
obviously was the opposite. So it is a weird thing
to consider. But we always just i mean, our our
whole thing is just staying true. The way we did
(05:44):
this from the beginning was just staying true to what
we wanted. It didn't matter. I mean, we had a
record show for three years just basically because we were
being obstinate that we wanted what we wanted. And so
we always just try and keep our integrity and so
if we want to do something, we're going to do it,
come whatever may. After words, and uh, we're still we're
still doing exactly what we want and that's what's most
(06:05):
important to us and hopefully everybody likes it.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
You know, if you're staying true to yourselves, why shel
Why why shelve a record out of curiosity?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Because they didn't like it. They turned it in. They
were like, hey, we want this that the other thing.
We said, no, this is the album and so yeah,
we had to sit around to find someone else who
was willing to release it as is. Yeah, well they
try to take all the cuss words out too.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Which Hollywood record.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
It would be an instrumental record at that point.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
So yeah, it's it's it's become a radio DJ pastime
to edit Hollywood and Dead songs for radio play.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Did you know what's weird about that is everybody I
know cusses in regular conversation incessantly. What does it matter
if it's in a song. I don't know a single
person that doesn't eat fuck. My kids says fuck all
the time. She's five, way to go dad. Thanks.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
I think with that song though, like that song was
actually very easy to write because you know, as we're
as we get older, I want to change, I want
to be different, I want to be better, but it
doesn't seem to be happening. So I still feel the
same as we did when we started the band, So
that song actually.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Was not hard to write.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Like, like you said, oh, we want to say true
to ourselves, like we don't have to try we do.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You know, we're yeah, and you know, honestly, because that
song was really for the fans and stuff, and I
think it's something that was like twenty years in the making,
so once we started, it just kind of poured out.
You know, that all the material was already kind of
within us, so it wasn't It was very much a
natural process with that one.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, it I don't know, and first listen, you know,
you get it. Sometimes you get singles from bands that
have been around the Switch record labels, and I don't know,
for me as a programmer, when I put that hat on,
not just a fan, it's like, okay, well, what are
we going to get now? And I don't know. Listening
to it, it hit me right away, it just did. And
maybe it maybe again, maybe it's because we're the same age.
(07:59):
Maybe it's because you know, we all kind of came
up around the same time, but it really did. I
felt it, oh yeah, which brought me down a wormhole.
And I went and listened to California Dreaming and that
album and specifically I didn't I totally forgot that there
was a song with Jelly Roll on it in House
(08:20):
of Mirrors and like, some of these lyrics are hitting
me different after listening to that song. So that's a
weird sort of go back and go, oh, you know what,
I like this too, And I didn't realize I didn't
realize it the first time to some of the older stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
That's cool. That is cool, man, that's awesome to hear. Dude.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
We never expected that it would do that. It's kind
of it was weird the way it came about because
we're literally just having a conversation with this producer Sokko
and Jars Johnson that we were working with, and we
were just talking about just kind of the band and
where we started and where we're at now, and how
we've changed as people and grown as people, and how
the band is lucky to still be doing this twenty
(09:02):
years later.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
That we're all just like, hey, let's just write about that.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
And the song kind of wrote itself because it just
came from such a real place and something that we
hadn't talked about before.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So it was cool.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
What made it's interesting because when you know, back in
the day it was signed with the record label, go
through the process, become a cog in the wheel. In
twenty twenty five, now, which is weird. By the way,
our first guest of twenty twenty five, so thank you, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Is our yer.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
In this day and age, that's not the case, right.
People can do things on their own a lot easier.
It's a lot easier to technology has caught up with
some of our visions and dreams and ideas. How important
was it for you guys just to give them a
shout out because I think they're still doing it right
to sign with a label like Sumerian Records and work
with them.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Dude, we talk about the biggest mistake we ever made
was signing with the major label to get started. Of course,
we were a bunch of broke kids, so like they
had more money, they offered us more. That was the
only reason we But you do you are a part
of a system. And then when you're in that system,
if they don't decide to push something, you're you're you're
screwed because they could shelve an album. You still have
(10:11):
three albums to go before they let you go. And
there are still indie labels that do it right, that
care about bands and actually, like Ash who owns Samerian,
he loves music. It's not a business. About Hey, I
want to go make money. That's you know, if that happens, great,
But he's a music fan. Whereas these major labels to
like lawyers run them. It has nothing to do with
(10:35):
Oh I like music. I care about this project or
this band. They're just there, Hey, will this make me money?
And you know, you sacrifice a lot on the altar
of profit when you you buy into that system, And
what we're moving towards more now is and the only
way we can stay ourselves is outside of that system,
because you know, if you don't fit in, dude, you're
(10:55):
you're basically trash on the side of the road. Eventually,
as many many bands have found.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Out, I'm curious for a band like Hollywood and Dead,
how much your success uh not necessarily deemed with record sales,
but with concert tickets and merch sales and and you know,
uh street followings and social media followings basically the fans.
Like how much has the fans driven the success of
(11:20):
the band versus the monetary value of it? I guess
for lack of better So I don't want to turn
this into a Wall Street Journal conversation, but you know
what I mean, well, dude.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
I mean the fans, that's the only thing we have
like without them. That was kind of what Hollywood and
Dead Forever was really touching on it. We you know,
we get people who come up to us sometimes and
it's the greatest thing in the world when they say,
you know, this song saved my life, or the song
made me you know, change made me want to change
this or that, and it's it's very inspiring. And it
was kind of us telling them, like, dude, you think
you've done a lot for us, what wait, let let's
(11:51):
tell them what they've done for us. Because without the
band and without them, all of us, none of us
know where we'd be right now. It probably wouldn't be
someplace good, I would guess, And so you know, it
was really an acknowledgment not they tell us what we've
done for them, but it's them who've really changed our
lives and made our lives better and our connection to them.
You know, everybody needs purpose, everybody needs a meaning to
(12:13):
get up in the morning and to go about their lives.
And that knowing that they feel that way about us
makes me go, dude, we need to continue writing. We
need to do those things because it's hard sometimes, especially
on the business side, So the fans are all we have.
Everything else is periphery and who cares. And some day
sometimes you're gonna make money, sometimes you're not. You're gonna
get robbed by managers and lawyers and labels. We've been
(12:35):
robbed by everybody, But the fans are the ones who've
always kept us going. At the end of the day,
labels don't matter. It's just it's about who listens.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Nice was what made you guys decide to release? Obviously
you're working on a record right now. By the way
it sounds, What made you guys decide to release this
song ahead of that being done?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I think you know. The the general function now is
most bands are just putting out singles, and I don't
think we're going to change that. Records they're kind of
they become a thing of the past in the sense
like you know, my car, this is what still trips
me out. My car doesn't have like a CD player
like we grew up. You know, those days are kind
of over. So it's more of a single by single
(13:15):
release process, so which we love because now we can
go in and work on a song for a week
as opposed to writing a song a day for thirty
days and picking a record. We go in and every
detail has gone over, and so we're kind of just
doing it as a song by song thing. We have
a couple ready to go. But Hollywood Forever was the
first song that we wrote for this process or this
(13:36):
this cycle or whatever you want to call it, that
we were like, this is the one, like this is
what we need to go with.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Look at you with a fancy car not having a
CD player.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I'm still try. Yeah, it's a motorcycle. That's why, same.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Bro when it comes to, you know, putting together. Obviously,
this song is a little bit more seriously, it does
have a feeling to it like we already described, are
there still you know some everywhere I go is in
there too, because I think we all need to know
if that Charlie can still show his weani everywhere.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
We go.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Shrinks significantly, and I'll have testicles of shrink because of
t RT, So I can't write about that anymore.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
I think it's discolored now too, like colors over the years.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
His balls are all dark and shit, dude's fucked up.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Yeah, it looks like two California raisins in this fire
out here, I'm.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Gonna regret asking that question. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
No, but we'll still have some party tracks for sure,
because they're fun to make and they're fun.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
To play live.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So absolutely help the big rock anthems and the party tracks.
That's just what we do naturally, and they're both fun
in their own ways.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
My my co host this morning on my morning show,
I told her I was going to talk to you
guys today, and she goes, oh God, I love Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
I'm dead.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
That song everywhere I go Coas still comes up in
my workout play. I'm like, you're you're a middle aged woman.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Okay, maybe she wants to show a cock too. Hey
that's universal, you know it?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Yeah these days too.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, sure, there's a remix every tits that they like
to show. We can make one for the ladies.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Hey there you go, there, you go make it a
make it a do what, get a get a get
a feature on it? Hell yeah, sure, why not? You can?
You guys have never stopped touring obviously. You know the
thing about Hollywood, whether there's a song out, whether there's
(15:41):
a record out, it's like, oh Hollywood on Dead's opening
for that band, or oh Hollywood in Dead's playing at
that club tonight and this year is no different. You
guys have a tour booked with Tech nine. Legend that is.
Tell me about this period because going out, I mean,
obviously a rotten metal but rock or whatever you want
to call it. But Tech nine is is I don't know,
(16:04):
he's like the king of underground hip hop.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
He's He's a legend, dude. He's also, by the way,
one of the coolest dudes you'll ever fucking meet. He's awesome, man,
He's awesome to us, but he's awesome to his fans.
Just watching him like it shows you how to work,
like how you know, because that guy could do anything
he wants at this point, and the way he how
humble he is, and how he treats people, and you
know that dude, he's one of the greatest rappers that's
ever walked the face of the earth. But when you
(16:28):
talk to him, he doesn't put off that vibe at all.
He's just a cool ass dude. Yeah, super cool. We
did a song with him on a couple of records ago.
That's how we met him, and I was I was
blown away because we were kind of nervous. You know,
you grew up listening to somebody like that, and he
was like, we introduced him to white claw. So that's
our claim to Flint fame. He had never had a
white claw. A couple Yeah, a couple of white boys
(16:50):
came in and he had some white claws and he
respected that. Dude, no laws chicken claws. Boy, Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
That's a well you guys can drink if you like that. Well,
you're not on the road. I don't think they have
it in California, but it's definitely all over the Midwest.
Fine carbless And I'm not just saying that because they
sponsor me. I'm saying that because they're delicious.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
What is it.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
It's called carbless and it is. It's cocktails in a can,
you know, but it's not it's not a seltzer. It's
I don't know how to explain it, but it's it's
very good. All the flavors and all that stuff very good.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
The seltzer part is what bugs me. I don't like
it in the you know, the burping and all the
stuff that comes with it.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, that's why when we found this and they're a
Wisconsin company, which is obviously where I'm from, yeah, but
they are all over the Midwest now veteran known company.
But it's it's so good. It's so good carbless carbless.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, okay, aren't we You can bring up six pack
carb bless people make out.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You guys are playing all right, you guys are playing
in my hometown venue. I do have to come, but
I'm bringing my daughter, so so be careful.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
She relaxed.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Okay, set it up, set it off. We're just here.
And then when you guys announced this tour, I'm like, okay,
we'll go so we can see set it off, and
so I can say how to Hollywood, I'm dead, but
so we'll guess I gotta ring my daughter, So no weirdness, guys,
we'll keep it PG broo, Wait when's the show? Yeah,
she'll be sixteen at that time. Yeah, okay, then thirteen.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Sixteen.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Fuck but yeah, that tour obviously happening later this year
and more songs to come. Any idea, any flavors, any
next couple songs to get released?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
What can we expect? Straight fire dude?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Yeah, well we can say we've been working with Tyler Smith.
That's why we're out here now. We're big fans of
his production. He's done amazing work. So we're super excited
about the stuff we're doing with him, and that'll probably
be what's next one of the songs we've done so far.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Gotcha you said you're working with Jars Johnson as well.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yep, yeah, Jaris he's the man, dude, that's our boy.
Fucking awesome.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, he's. I mean, even some of his solo stuff
that has come out in the last couple of years
has been He's sucks.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
A talented dude, really is. He sucks at slang dragons.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Though he's good at music.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
He sucks at like, you know, dragon slang and slay
dragons or pussy dude, But man, can he sing a song? Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Gets no, Hey, sometimes you just gotta stay you gotta
stay in the lane. You know you're good at you know, yeah, yeah,
slade dragons.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Great.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Now, let's put on our nerd caps and go get
a twelve sided die and play some D and D.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Baby, he's not even a real nerd. I was like,
you like Lord of the Rings. He's like, what's the like,
motherfucking liar? That pissed me off? Dude. He didn't even
write Harry Potter bro what's up with that? Yeah, the
report pressed right off his chest.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
You mean Star Wars with wands?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah, dude, Hey, they'll never insult Lord of the Rings
with a Star Wars comparison.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
No, no, no, not Lord of the Rings. Harry Potters. Okay,
Harry Potter is just Lord of the Rings, but with magic,
that's true. Lord of the Rings is a staff technically, exactly. Now,
Lord of the Rings has probably influenced all of them.
It came first.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, no, Lord of It. I mean he's the apex
of fantasy still to this day. Everybody writes a book
as it can be compared to Tolkien.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Absolutely it is, and for good reason. O. Hey, it's
untouchable exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So Jarris is a fake ner Johnny's a real nerd.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
That's what you just learned.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, oh dude, I have like encyclopedic knowledge of the Silmarillion,
Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit, all of it. Bro,
And I'm not talking about the movies. A lot of
people think it's the move the movies are. The movies
were actually well made, but they got nothing on the books.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
He used to do a bunch of below and make
us quiz him, and I'd be like, dude, I go
to bed and.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
He's like me more. That's a true story, dude. I
love Lord of the Rings trivia when I'm on an
eight ball?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Who does it?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Those two things just seem to go together. People think
it's strippers, but no, it's Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
No voices too and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, Jordan,
Charlie's brother, he would do the voice of like an
orc when he asked me the trivia questions, and uh
it was it was good times. Man.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I do have one more music question, because you know
there are obviously you guys have different voices on each song.
When you guys write, how do you figure out whose
versus who's what's what? How do you come together and
write the words together all of that. It's always something
curious to me when there's when there's voice.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Figured that out.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, everybody's like songs kind of picked the person too.
Like we all have like things that were you know,
we we compliment each other on and negate each other on,
so like a lot of the times it's like it's
pretty obvious, and we we're pretty democratic with things. We
write together for the most part, so it's like it's
not like a you know, we all disagree though plenty
of you know, like any good marriage, there's a lot
(22:04):
of compromise. But yeah, you know it is what we
all have, our little gifts and our curses. So we're
just trying and apply those things. Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I can't wait to hear more. And what we've learned
here today is Johnny's gonna steal me from my fiance
so that we can make out. Charlie and I going
to make out with a six pack of Carbleist and I'm.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Just gonna I'm gonna film it all. And yeah, he's
gonna be in the corner with the film the camera.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Yeah, I just like the I'm just like the film guy.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
This lot in this episode is rated triple X. This
episode is rated grinder. Thank you guys so much, Thank
you guys so much for some time.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Man.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I appreciate it and and and good work man, I
said at the beginning, I'll say it again. The song
is good. It's really good. And I hope it continues
to succeed and do well.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
And thank you brother for cutters rock cast. Don't forget
to tune in exactly. M hmm.
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