August 19, 2025 • 14 mins
https://www.solgoodmedia.com Listen to hundreds of audiobooks, thousands of short stories, and ambient sounds all ad free! "Daily Philosophy" brings you daily episodes that dissect major philosophical questions and theories. Explore the intersections of philosophy with science, politics, and culture, and how these ideas shape our society. This podcast is a treasure trove for anyone eager to deepen their understanding of the philosophical landscape.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Section two. What an incomprehensible being you are Socrates. When
you are in the country, as you say, you really
are like some stranger who is led about by a guide.
Do you ever cross the border? I rather think that
(00:24):
you never venture even outside the cats. Very true, my
good friend, And I hope that you will excuse me
when you hear the reason, which is that I am
a lover of knowledge, and the men who dwell in
the city are my teachers, and not the trees or
(00:49):
the country. Though I do indeed believe that you have
found a spell with which to draw me out of
the city into the country, like a hungry cow before
whom a bow a bunch of fruit is waved for.
Only hold up before me in like manner a book,
(01:13):
and you may lead me all round Attica and over
the wide world. And now having arrived, I intend to
lie down, and do you choose any posture in which
you can read best? Begin? Listen. You know how matters
(01:44):
stand with me, and how as I conceived, the affair
may be arranged for the advantage of both of us.
And I maintain that I ought not to fail in
my suit, because I am not your lover. For lovers
repent of the kindnesses which they have shown when their
(02:07):
passion ceases. But to the non lovers, who are free
and not under any compulsion, no time of repentance ever comes,
for they confer their benefits according to the measure of
their ability, in the way which is most conducive to
(02:27):
their own interest. Then again, lovers consider how, by reason
of their love they have neglected their own concerns and
rendered service to others. And when do these benefits conferred
they add on the troubles which they have endured. They
(02:50):
think that they have long ago made to the beloved
a very ample return. But the non lover has no
such tormenting recollections. He has never neglected his affairs or
quarreled with his relations. He has no troubles to add
(03:13):
up or excuses to invent. And, being well rid of
all these evils, why should he not really do what
will gratify the beloved. If you say that the lover
is more to be esteemed because his love is thought
to be greater, for he is willing to say and
(03:37):
do what is hateful to other men in order to
please his beloved. That, if true, is only a proof
that he will prefer any future love to his present,
and will injure his old love at the pleasure of
the new. And how in a matter of such infinite
(04:01):
importance can a man be right in trusting himself to
one who is afflicted with a malady which no experienced
person would attempt to cure. For the patient himself admits
that he is not in his right mind, and acknowledges
(04:21):
that he is wrong in his mind, but says that
he is unable to control himself. And if he came
to his right mind, would he ever imagine that the
desires were good which he conceived when in his wrong mind?
Once more, there are many more non lovers than lovers,
(04:47):
And if you choose the best of the lovers, you
will not have many to choose from. But if from
the non lovers, the choice will be larger, and you
will be far more likely to find among them a
person who is worthy of your friendship. If public opinion
(05:10):
be your dread, and you would avoid reproach in all probability,
the lover, who is always thinking that other men are
as emulous of him as he is of them, will
boast to some one of his successes and make a
show of them openly in the pride of his heart.
(05:33):
He wants others to know that his labor has not
been lost. But the non lover is more his own master,
and is desirous of solid good and not the opinion
of mankind. Again, the lover may be generally noted or
(05:55):
seen following the beloved. This is his regular occupation. And
whenever they are observ'd to exchange two words, they are
supposed to meet about some affair of love, either past
or in contemplation. But when non lovers meet, no one
(06:18):
asks the reason why, because people know that talking to
another is natural. Whether friendship or mere pleasure be the motive.
Once more, if you fear the fickleness of friendship, consider
that in any other case a quarrel might be a
(06:40):
mutual calamity. But now, when you have given up what
is most precious to you, you will be the greater loser.
And therefore you will have more reason in being afraid
of the lover, For his vexations are many, and he
(07:00):
is always fancying that every one is leagued against him.
Wherefore also he debars his beloved from society. He will
not have you intimate with the wealthy, lest they should
exceed him in wealth or with men of education, lest
(07:22):
they should be his superiors in understanding. And he is
equally afraid of anybody's influence who has any other advantage
over himself. If he can persuade you to break with them,
you are left without a friend in the world. Or if,
(07:44):
out of a regard to your own interest, you have
more sense than to comply with his desire, you will
have to quarrel with him. But those who are non lovers,
and whose success in love is the reward of their merit,
will not be jealous of the companions of their beloved,
(08:07):
and will rather hate those who refuse to be his associates,
thinking that their favorite is slighted by the latter and
benefited by the former. For more love than hatred may
be expected to come to him out of his friendship
(08:29):
with others. Many lovers, too, have loved the person of
a youth before they knew his character or his belongings,
so that when their passion has passed away, there is
no knowing whether they will continue to be his friends.
Whereas in the case of non lovers who were always friends,
(08:54):
the friendship is not lessened by the favors granted but
the recollection of these remains with them and is an
earnest of good things to come. Further, I say that
you are likely to be improv'd by me, whereas the
(09:15):
lover will spoil you, for they praise your words and
actions in a wrong way, partly because they are afraid
of offending you, and also their judgment is weakened by passion.
Such are the feats which love exhibits. He makes things
(09:38):
painful to the disappointed, which give no pain to others.
He compels the successful lover to praise what ought not
to give him pleasure. And therefore the beloved is to
be pitied rather than envied. But if you listen and
(10:00):
to me in the first place, I, in my intercourse
with you, shall not merely regard present enjoyment, but also
future advantage, being not mastered by love but my own master.
Nor for small causes, taking violent dislikes. But even when
(10:25):
the cause is great, slowly laying up little wrath, unintentional offenses,
I shall forgive, and intentional ones I shall try to prevent.
And these are the marks of a friendship which will last.
(10:47):
Do you think that a lover only can be a
firm friend? Reflect if this were true, we should set
small value on sons or fathers, or nor should we
ever have loyal friends, for our love of them arises
not from passion, but from other associations. Further, if we
(11:13):
ought to shower favors on those who are the most
eager suitors, on that principle, we ought always to do
good not to the most virtuous, but to the most needy.
For they are the persons who will be most relieved,
and will therefore be the most grateful. And when you
(11:36):
make a feast, you should invite not your friend but
the beggar and the empty soul, for they will love you,
and attend you, and come about your doors, and will
be the best pleased and the most grateful, and will
invoke many a blessing on your head. Yet, surely you
(12:01):
ought not to be granting favors to those who besee
you with prayer, but to those who are best able
to reward you, nor to the lover only, but to
those who are worthy of love. Nor to those who
will enjoy the bloom of your youth, but to those
(12:22):
who will share their possessions with you in age, Nor
to those who, having succeeded, will glory in their success
to others, but to those who will be modest and
tell no tales, nor to those who cared about you
(12:42):
for a moment only, But to those who will continue
your friends through life. Nor to those who, when their
passion is over, will pick a quarrel with you. But
rather to those who, when the charm of youth has
left you, will show their own virtue. Remember what I
(13:08):
have said, and consider yet this further point. Friends, admonish
the lover under the idea that his way of life
is bad, But no one of his kindred ever yet
censured the non lover, or thought that he was ill
(13:28):
advised about his own interests. Perhaps you will ask me
whether I propose that you should indulge every non lover,
to which I reply that not even the lover would
advise you to indulge all lovers, For the indiscriminate favor
(13:51):
is less esteem'd by the rational recipient, and less easily
hidden by him who would escape the sense of the world.
Now love ought to be for the advantage of both parties,
and for the injury of neither. I believe that I
(14:13):
have said enough. But if there is anything more which
you desire, or which in your opinion needs to be supplied.
Ask and I will answer. End of Section two
Section two. What an incomprehensible being you are Socrates. When
you are in the country, as you say, you really
are like some stranger who is led about by a guide.
Do you ever cross the border? I rather think that
(00:24):
you never venture even outside the cats. Very true, my
good friend, And I hope that you will excuse me
when you hear the reason, which is that I am
a lover of knowledge, and the men who dwell in
the city are my teachers, and not the trees or
(00:49):
the country. Though I do indeed believe that you have
found a spell with which to draw me out of
the city into the country, like a hungry cow before
whom a bow a bunch of fruit is waved for.
Only hold up before me in like manner a book,
(01:13):
and you may lead me all round Attica and over
the wide world. And now having arrived, I intend to
lie down, and do you choose any posture in which
you can read best? Begin? Listen. You know how matters
(01:44):
stand with me, and how as I conceived, the affair
may be arranged for the advantage of both of us.
And I maintain that I ought not to fail in
my suit, because I am not your lover. For lovers
repent of the kindnesses which they have shown when their
(02:07):
passion ceases. But to the non lovers, who are free
and not under any compulsion, no time of repentance ever comes,
for they confer their benefits according to the measure of
their ability, in the way which is most conducive to
(02:27):
their own interest. Then again, lovers consider how, by reason
of their love they have neglected their own concerns and
rendered service to others. And when do these benefits conferred
they add on the troubles which they have endured. They
(02:50):
think that they have long ago made to the beloved
a very ample return. But the non lover has no
such tormenting recollections. He has never neglected his affairs or
quarreled with his relations. He has no troubles to add
(03:13):
up or excuses to invent. And, being well rid of
all these evils, why should he not really do what
will gratify the beloved. If you say that the lover
is more to be esteemed because his love is thought
to be greater, for he is willing to say and
(03:37):
do what is hateful to other men in order to
please his beloved. That, if true, is only a proof
that he will prefer any future love to his present,
and will injure his old love at the pleasure of
the new. And how in a matter of such infinite
(04:01):
importance can a man be right in trusting himself to
one who is afflicted with a malady which no experienced
person would attempt to cure. For the patient himself admits
that he is not in his right mind, and acknowledges
(04:21):
that he is wrong in his mind, but says that
he is unable to control himself. And if he came
to his right mind, would he ever imagine that the
desires were good which he conceived when in his wrong mind?
Once more, there are many more non lovers than lovers,
(04:47):
And if you choose the best of the lovers, you
will not have many to choose from. But if from
the non lovers, the choice will be larger, and you
will be far more likely to find among them a
person who is worthy of your friendship. If public opinion
(05:10):
be your dread, and you would avoid reproach in all probability,
the lover, who is always thinking that other men are
as emulous of him as he is of them, will
boast to some one of his successes and make a
show of them openly in the pride of his heart.
(05:33):
He wants others to know that his labor has not
been lost. But the non lover is more his own master,
and is desirous of solid good and not the opinion
of mankind. Again, the lover may be generally noted or
(05:55):
seen following the beloved. This is his regular occupation. And
whenever they are observ'd to exchange two words, they are
supposed to meet about some affair of love, either past
or in contemplation. But when non lovers meet, no one
(06:18):
asks the reason why, because people know that talking to
another is natural. Whether friendship or mere pleasure be the motive.
Once more, if you fear the fickleness of friendship, consider
that in any other case a quarrel might be a
(06:40):
mutual calamity. But now, when you have given up what
is most precious to you, you will be the greater loser.
And therefore you will have more reason in being afraid
of the lover, For his vexations are many, and he
(07:00):
is always fancying that every one is leagued against him.
Wherefore also he debars his beloved from society. He will
not have you intimate with the wealthy, lest they should
exceed him in wealth or with men of education, lest
(07:22):
they should be his superiors in understanding. And he is
equally afraid of anybody's influence who has any other advantage
over himself. If he can persuade you to break with them,
you are left without a friend in the world. Or if,
(07:44):
out of a regard to your own interest, you have
more sense than to comply with his desire, you will
have to quarrel with him. But those who are non lovers,
and whose success in love is the reward of their merit,
will not be jealous of the companions of their beloved,
(08:07):
and will rather hate those who refuse to be his associates,
thinking that their favorite is slighted by the latter and
benefited by the former. For more love than hatred may
be expected to come to him out of his friendship
(08:29):
with others. Many lovers, too, have loved the person of
a youth before they knew his character or his belongings,
so that when their passion has passed away, there is
no knowing whether they will continue to be his friends.
Whereas in the case of non lovers who were always friends,
(08:54):
the friendship is not lessened by the favors granted but
the recollection of these remains with them and is an
earnest of good things to come. Further, I say that
you are likely to be improv'd by me, whereas the
(09:15):
lover will spoil you, for they praise your words and
actions in a wrong way, partly because they are afraid
of offending you, and also their judgment is weakened by passion.
Such are the feats which love exhibits. He makes things
(09:38):
painful to the disappointed, which give no pain to others.
He compels the successful lover to praise what ought not
to give him pleasure. And therefore the beloved is to
be pitied rather than envied. But if you listen and
(10:00):
to me in the first place, I, in my intercourse
with you, shall not merely regard present enjoyment, but also
future advantage, being not mastered by love but my own master.
Nor for small causes, taking violent dislikes. But even when
(10:25):
the cause is great, slowly laying up little wrath, unintentional offenses,
I shall forgive, and intentional ones I shall try to prevent.
And these are the marks of a friendship which will last.
(10:47):
Do you think that a lover only can be a
firm friend? Reflect if this were true, we should set
small value on sons or fathers, or nor should we
ever have loyal friends, for our love of them arises
not from passion, but from other associations. Further, if we
(11:13):
ought to shower favors on those who are the most
eager suitors, on that principle, we ought always to do
good not to the most virtuous, but to the most needy.
For they are the persons who will be most relieved,
and will therefore be the most grateful. And when you
(11:36):
make a feast, you should invite not your friend but
the beggar and the empty soul, for they will love you,
and attend you, and come about your doors, and will
be the best pleased and the most grateful, and will
invoke many a blessing on your head. Yet, surely you
(12:01):
ought not to be granting favors to those who besee
you with prayer, but to those who are best able
to reward you, nor to the lover only, but to
those who are worthy of love. Nor to those who
will enjoy the bloom of your youth, but to those
(12:22):
who will share their possessions with you in age, Nor
to those who, having succeeded, will glory in their success
to others, but to those who will be modest and
tell no tales, nor to those who cared about you
(12:42):
for a moment only, But to those who will continue
your friends through life. Nor to those who, when their
passion is over, will pick a quarrel with you. But
rather to those who, when the charm of youth has
left you, will show their own virtue. Remember what I
(13:08):
have said, and consider yet this further point. Friends, admonish
the lover under the idea that his way of life
is bad, But no one of his kindred ever yet
censured the non lover, or thought that he was ill
(13:28):
advised about his own interests. Perhaps you will ask me
whether I propose that you should indulge every non lover,
to which I reply that not even the lover would
advise you to indulge all lovers, For the indiscriminate favor
(13:51):
is less esteem'd by the rational recipient, and less easily
hidden by him who would escape the sense of the world.
Now love ought to be for the advantage of both parties,
and for the injury of neither. I believe that I
(14:13):
have said enough. But if there is anything more which
you desire, or which in your opinion needs to be supplied.
Ask and I will answer. End of Section two
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.