July 30, 2024 • 27 mins
Host Candy Evans sat down with Fred Balda, President of Hillwood Communities, for this episode of Dallas Dirt to discuss housing en masse, particularly their new developments at Harvest, Tree Line, and Landmark. The Fort Worth-based Perot company specializes in master-planned communities, which include signature developments like AllianceTexas, Circle T Ranch, and Frisco Station.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:06):
I'm Candy Evans and this is Dallas Dirt.
Let me tell you who my guest is today.
It's Fred Balda, who's president ofHillwood Communities.
I've known Fred for a long time.
We have a little bit of a history in CostaRica that we will not tell you about just
yet.
(00:26):
I am so excited to have you here today.
Thank you for coming.
Thank you for having me.
It's my pleasure.
I've been watching a lot of your podcasts,so I'm honored to be on it.
we'd love that you're watching.
We'd love that you're here.
And Hillwood's Union Park was just namedthe master planned community of the year.
But was it by the ULI that did that?
I believe or it was by the Dallas BuildersAssociation, which is a huge, huge
(00:52):
distinction and honor.
Big honor.
We're proud of it.
I'm so proud of you guys.
Maybe for your audience, maybe a littlebit about.
who am I with and then I'll bring it downto Hillwood communities.
Exactly.
How about that?
We're going to start by saying that he isan amazing leader of an amazing company
that is headed by Ross Perot.
Yes.
Ross Perot Jr.
is our leader and he started Hillwood in1988 with the beginning of the Alliance
(01:18):
development, which is anchored by theworld's first industrial airport.
And so out of that particular project camea variety of disciplines.
We have four main competencies.
We got our industrial distribution group,which has really got a huge platform,
literally across the world.
They've done about 270 million square feetand they currently have about 70 million
square feet that they own and manage.
(01:39):
We have a commercial division that isdeveloping wonderful commercial
properties.
They've done about three and a halfmillion square feet and they currently
have about a million seven that they stillown and manage.
And they're actually building the GoldmanSachs building down at Victory, which is
800 ,000 square feet.
And when it delivers a few years from now,it'll be 5 ,000 employees coming into that
part of town, which is wonderful activity.
(02:00):
We have a huge news for Dallas in thatpart.
Uh, victory has been very, very active.
Multifamily is also a huge part of ourbusiness.
They probably have delivered 4 ,000 unitsand they probably do 600 units, two
products a year is kind of their cadenceright now.
And then of course, the division that Imanage, which is Hillwood communities,
we've done nearly a hundred.
(02:21):
projects across the nation that we'veowned or managed Which represents about 50
,000 lots.
So if you do the math 50 ,000 lots timesthree people per home That's a hundred and
fifty thousand people.
These are literally cities that we aredeveloping really across mostly North
Texas We currently have 12 projects.
(02:41):
Eight of those are in the Dallas area andthe other four in Austin and Houston.
Are you primarily in Texas?
Are you
We're primarily on our own account inTexas, the great state of Texas, the great
Republic of Texas, but we also invest inother markets.
So we have several partners, greatpartners, local partners in Florida, North
(03:03):
Carolina, Northern Virginia, those marketswe love.
And so we have a representation there withother partners and we happen to be their
equity.
and they do the daily work like we do herein Texas.
The equity means you invest the capital.
We're the capital, the majority of thecapital for them.
And so they do wonderful work and we havea wonderful relationship and we trade a
(03:25):
lot of secrets back and forth.
So we all become better in thatrelationship.
So it's not just about capital, it's aboutlearning and getting better constantly.
And you learn from them for yourcommunity.
Both.
think we can add value to them and theycertainly add value to us.
So we
getting better.
The bar keeps getting setting higher andhigher.
Homes are the topic of conversation now,which is amazing.
(03:47):
I mean, we have evolved into this, thatthe con that we're talking about at the
federal level, we're talking about atthis, at the local level because there's
not enough housing out there.
And you guys, this is why I'm so excitedto have you here because you guys are
making housing.
I mean, you're creating housing and Ithink your price points are somewhere,
what, in the
Well, they're higher than they've everbeen.
(04:07):
So we'll talk about affordability reallybeing the core issue of housing right now.
But today to get into our projects, we'reaveraging $600 ,000 in these wonderful
projects where we used to be averagingthree or 400 ,000 not too long ago.
So kind of a case in point would be in2019, our average priced home in all of
(04:28):
our communities, our portfolio ofcommunities across the great state of
Texas would have been about $350 ,000.
That was the average priced home in ourgreat communities.
And at the time, the interest rate was 4%.
And when you do the PITI, principalinterest taxes insurance, the payment for
the homeowners that are buying thosehomes, they were probably $2 ,300 a month.
(04:50):
And the qualification for that $2 ,300 amonth meant 92 ,000 household income.
Today, you take that $600 ,000 home withthis new, unbelievably high interest rate
of 7%,
So 600,000 7% is $4,800, $4,900 PITI.
And that equates to about $195 ,000household income.
(05:12):
Not sustainable, very, very expensiveright now.
Even so we're seeing a huge demand stillcoming into this marketplace, which I can
tell you more about, but it's justphenomenal, still good business.
It's just very pricey right now.
And again, I always like to have readersand viewers understand.
why it's pricey.
It's not that you guys are just out therelike putting tons of money in the bank.
(05:35):
It's because of the interest rates.
It's because of the regulations.
It's because of all of these things thatare piled on top of you as the developer,
correct?
Exactly right.
So it starts with land.
Yes.
So land prices have not gone down.
No.
One iota.
In fact, they're continuing to go up.
I would say our construction costs arestarting to level off.
So that's a positive, but they're stillhigh, but they're leveling up.
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They're not coming down, which is what weneed.
So that's high, that cost is high.
The entitlements still take a long time.
Entitlement meaning?
Entitlements meaning zoning.
whatever we do out here in North Texas, weneed zoning to accomplish.
You go to the community.
We go to the city officials or thejurisdiction and we ask them for a variety
of zoning, which allows us to do a varietyof product, which is really important in
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these big master plans to have the abilityto bring on a whole pilot of different
types of housing.
When you have these big projects that
a couple of decades old, know, economy isgoing to constantly change as it's
changing right now.
It's important for us to have a smallerfootprint of a lot, which allows a smaller
footprint of a home and all that isdictated by zoning.
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So if you do it right on the front end,you can kind of get through these times
that we're dealing with right now.
So we're still challenged, but we least wehave a fighting chance of meeting some
good demand that's out there right now.
So we develop the communities and we sellour lots to home builders.
To be clear, we don't build the homes.
You don't build the homes.
We build these beautiful masterfulcommunities.
But you what they want in thosecommunities.
(07:03):
You betcha.
So like they want pools, they want walkingtrails, What do they want?
All the above.
so...
So the master plans, the amenities, Iguess is what you're asking is what's
important to the buyers coming into ourmaster plans.
We do a variety of amenities, but I wouldsay the basic ones that they keep
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repeating and asking for, even when I wasyounger, are trails.
Trails and open space are key to everymaster plan.
But beyond that, we still do the pools,parks, playgrounds.
They're all a little bit themeddifferently now.
Pickleball versus tennis.
Pickleball is huge right now.
Have you ever played pickleball?
Yes.
Pickleball is a lot of fun.
Be careful because you think you canstretch a little bit more.
Be careful.
A lot of these, these,
(07:50):
Doctor offices are seeing a lot of folkslike you and me coming in there with a
sore this and a sore that.
But pickleball is really big.
All the different kind of courts are stillbig.
Basketball is big.
Tennis is still big.
Workout facilities are big.
It's all about health.
Health and outdoors, if possible.
So again, so we're loaded with all that.
And it's also the furry pets.
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Your dogs have a place in these masterplans and they're getting bigger and
better.
And so we benchmark nearly everything wedo.
So we were constantly on the road lookingat the best and greatest of California or
the East Coast or wherever.
and you'll start to see a lot more masterplans pop up here in North Texas.
(08:32):
We haven't had a whole lot of that, butnow you get some wonderful competitors of
ours that are up here doing great work.
Why is that?
you think?
Well, I think there's a lot of relocationhappening.
So people are almost demanding it anddevelopers need to probably
build bigger projects so that they're notcompeting with the builders that are also
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developing quite a few lots right now.
So the bigger we can go is the more we canaggregate, the more economies of scale
that we can bring in and we can deliver tothe private builders in a big way that
they can't go develop their own lot.
So you're seeing bigger projects likethat.
And so in times like this, when inflationhas really gone big, no pun intended, is
(09:13):
how do we bring these costs
So we can aggregate a lot more bybringing, you know, bigger programs in.
We can sell more lots that way.
We can keep the price generallyreasonable.
So it takes that and it takes zoning.
So size does matter in these bigcommunities to be able to deliver the type
of amenities that we think are important.
Importantly, you know, I think what we doa good job at, sorry, what we do a great
(09:37):
job at is great planning on thesecommunities.
So our master plans have a great sense ofarrival.
When you get there, you're going to see
variety of home builders with a variety ofproduct type, great architecture and great
amenities and amenities and amenities.
People love that.
And on -site schools, that's veryimportant for our buyers right now.
So when we do that, you get a lot morepeople buying into your community right
(10:02):
now.
Today, because of affordability,
we're having to go a little bit smaller onthese lots and a little bit smaller on the
footprint of these homes.
that's how you're keeping the costs down.
We're doing the best we can to do it, butit's important not to rock the boat.
Remember what brung you is a lot of ourgood core product.
and people expect the best out of thesemaster plans.
So the, the smaller product that we'rebringing on right now, it's quality stuff.
(10:24):
mean, it looks great.
It fits in nicely.
So that's one attempt at trying to hitaffordability.
The other attempt is a lot of folks aren'tready to buy just yet.
So this build for rent product is alsoreally...
What do you think about that?
I like it and I believe in the thesisagain because folks aren't quite ready yet
but they want to test drive this wonderfulmaster plan.
So why don't I test drive it in a greatway?
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I can bring my kids and put them inschool.
I can test drive these amenities.
I can see who lives there and how I cansocialize better.
And so that's working out great.
Do you think that's going to harm the homebuying?
It's a good question.
No, because what we do with our...
We have a partner that's building these,build for rent homes called BB Living.
They're out of Phoenix.
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They know what they're doing.
But what I loved about them is they alsolistened to the type of product we wanted.
And so that product needed to look good.
It needed to feel good.
And so the alternative would have been forthat consumer to maybe go to an apartment
and people you might remember in COVID,they were getting out of the apartment.
wanted a home, whether it was for purchaseor for rent.
So now we're able to offer a for rentproduct.
(11:28):
in our communities without rocking theboat.
that you're keying in on a key point, butI think we're, we've unlocked a really
good, valuable product that I think issustainable in all of our master plan.
So we'll see more and more.
to hear that because that gets people inthe door.
It does.
Without the huge down payment.
does.
Cause he's Morgan, you heard my earlierstatement that, know, the PITI is 4 ,800
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bucks a month.
And so when you go live in a project likeHarvest, that's the number you're going
pay generally or you can live in thisbeautiful home for $3 ,200, $3 ,300 a
month, something like that.
And it's, doesn't go up.
It's, it's set for a year or two.
Well, yeah, it's set for the amount ofyour lease.
So it might be six months to a year orsomething like that.
(12:11):
So that's good.
Cause it's not only the pity, but part ofthat pity is the taxes, which keep going
up.
That's right.
And then the insurance, which I am reallyconcerned about is that it's going to be a
real killer.
I am too and I probably haven't honed inon the insurance enough, but it's going up
everywhere.
with all these big weather events, it'shitting all of us.
You personally, me personally.
Absolutely.
(12:31):
The other aspect, know, variety of productdoes matter in these master plans.
Okay.
Let's talk about that.
What kind of variety?
So I could be, you know, smaller footprintmight be a townhome or a 30 foot wide home
to a 40 foot wide
Our normal or normal cup of tea, you know,years ago would have been our 50, a 60
foot and a 70 foot.
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That would have been our normal vernaculartalking about the size of a product or the
size of lot, which dictates the size ofhomes.
Now we're going smaller on that side ofit.
We're doing the bill for rent.
We're adding that side of it.
We're still going bigger.
There's still plenty of folks that want abigger home on a bigger lot.
That's going to continue to happen,especially in a maturing master plan
community.
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The other thing that we're seeing is theactive adult product is also coming in a
big way.
Sometimes we dictate active adult andsometimes it's based on the product that
we're delivering.
So there is definitely like myself, anactive adult that really is that we're
catering to as well.
So if I had to give you percentages,families are still the big part of it.
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65 to 75, 70 % of our buyers are familyoriented.
And then you might have youngprofessionals that is 15 to 20%.
and then you've got the active adult,which is 15 to 20%.
That kind of makes up our entire buyerprogram.
Well, I was going to ask you because I'mso glad to hear that you are kind of
diversifying that buyer to the front endof the, you know, maybe singles or maybe
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people who won't, what is the doubleincome, no kids, you know, the dinks, you
know, they may be there forever and theymay want to live in that area.
That's the market we're dealing with.
So you better attend to them.
And again, I'm back to zoning.
So you better have the proper zoning thatallows you to meet and greet
whatever the market wants at the time.
Well, speaking of zoning, somemunicipalities like Fort Worth have
discussed imposing fees, impact fees forthese very large residential communities.
(14:19):
How does Hillwood view these fees?
Are they fair?
Are they a solution?
Well, we love Fort Worth.
So, Fort Worth, if you're listening, welove you.
We love you, too.
But across the board, I would say thesegrowing cities, part of it is just
inflation.
So, these impact fees are going up,period.
The real challenge in the debate we alwayshave is what is it going for?
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Because normally these big master plans,they're paying their own way.
We're paying our own way.
We're creating great value.
We're creating higher priced homes, whichkind of take care of themselves.
So it's a sustainable operation that wecreate.
So why am I having to pay extra on theimpact?
So it's always a debate as to what is itgoing for?
Don't mind it, but what is it going for?
So I think we can spend our money
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wiser and more efficiently than maybe thegovernment can.
And the other thing is you're creatingthese homes which are creating property
tax revenue for these communities.
you're actually contributing to them, nottaking away.
That's right.
(15:26):
So if we all understand the long runpicture.
then it's an easier conversation.
And honestly, but I respect all thecities.
They do have a budget that they've got todeal with.
So I just want to make sure that it'sbudgeted appropriately.
So of course this is all to really be openminded and open with each other.
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the suburbia grew after COVID.
That's, as you said, that's where everyonewanted to go.
We got plenty to do in that space rightnow.
We can't keep up with it, to be honestwith you.
And in times like this, the master plandoes even better.
So I love the business that we're in.
It's very upfront cost expected to, youknow, when we put all these amenities in
and infrastructure in, it's a big dollarthat we got to put in.
(16:44):
Not many groups can do that.
So that diversity of product is reallyimportant,
I guess my point is that in good times andin bad times, that buyer really is
attracted to the master plan, especiallyin a downturn time where they're really
conscientious about where they spend theirmoney.
So am going to spend my money here or thisvery successful master plan that I know
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that I'm going to make some sort ofinvestment on my investment or return on
my investment, I should
Absolutely.
And did work from home kind of give youguys a big boost?
It did.
It did.
COVID of course supercharged us.
Uh huh.
Uh, I was going to tell you earlier thatI've been with Hillwood for, I'm on my
32nd year at Hillwood.
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in that period of time, I've been through,I started in a recession.
1992 was, we were coming out of a terriblerecession.
2000, there was a mini recession.
And then 08 through 12 was anotherterrible recession.
So I've had three recessions and you wouldthink every eight to 10 years there ought
to be another.
And there would have been if COVID hadn'tcome in in 2020.
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know, 2019 was still a decent year, butthings were starting to slow a bit.
But it kind of supercharged us again.
So we kind of avoided what might've been anormal recession.
So we just haven't seen it.
So we're constantly looking at...
Where are we heading with thismarketplace?
What gives me confidence in this place isincredible job creation.
(18:10):
The last 10 years we've averaged a hundredthousand jobs a year.
So a million jobs in, D F W in NorthTexas, which is one of the hottest, you
know, new employment sectors in the nationis creating a lot of new housing demand.
We've got a lot of population coming inhere.
want to say the number is 375 people everyday.
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are showing up in this marketplace rightnow.
So when you do the mathematics, Aggiemath, that's 170 ,000 new people being
created in this marketplace.
That's every six years, we got a millionpeople coming into this place.
And so we're sitting at about 8 .1 millionpeople in the Metroplex.
We're number four.
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Chicago is sitting at about 9 million.
So the prediction is in 2028, we're goingto be the number three most populated
Metro.
in the US.
So a lot of good growth here.
The work from home has also allowed us tohave additional growth that we didn't
count on.
So there's still plenty of people workingfrom home, not as much as it was clearly
(19:13):
in COVID, but still a larger percentagethan we've seen in the past.
That airport is incredibly important atDFW airport.
So when we look for new places, you know,it's like if you're 30 minutes from that
next work opportunity, that's important,or 30 minutes from the airport.
That's important.
So that's kind of where we kind oftriangulate as to where where's our next
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big deal.
(20:45):
I want to talk about your propertiesthough.
Let's go through them.
I'm not going to ask you for your favoriteone.
Although I'm a big Harvest fan because Ijust think the concept is so cool.
So let's start with Harvest.
Tell me about Harvest.
Yeah.
Harvest just celebrated its 10th yearanniversary of selling homes.
When it builds out, we'll have about 4,400 homes.
(21:06):
There's probably three or four years leftof really good sales activity in that
program.
It's not all sold out yet.
It's not, we still have a few more phasesleft to develop, it's probably 3000 homes
on the ground today.
it's North Texas?
It's North Lake.
North Lake and Argyle.
It's kind of split.
The horsey country.
(21:27):
The horsey country.
Yes.
Yes, exactly right.
So the horsey country, which used to bekind of farm country.
So we tipped our hat to that farmingcommunity by creating harvest.
And so we got this magnificent older...
farmhouse, which was built in the 1870s.
And we retrofitted it and made it theiconic view as you're coming into the
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program.
And then next to it, we created some cropfields and we created some five
greenhouses and we hired a professionalfarmer to kind of help.
could, he could grow his own crop in the,the greenhouses.
But part of the give back for him was thathe would teach our residents how to grow
things, which is really cool and neat.
So we have, think 170 raised
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where the community rents a planter forthe year.
I think it's, I don't know, 80 bucks ayear.
It's not about the money, but justcommitment.
And so it's really taken off.
But separately from just that agrihoodthat it started out to Agrihood.
I love that word.
You like that word?
Love it.
Okay.
Good.
I made it up.
I'm joking.
And so we still do all the other niceamenities and you got this mile and half
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central park, I call it.
that has a variety of different amenitiesall the way up.
It's kind of North South oriented thatallows additional amenities.
It might be an entertainment venue where aband will come in and play for the
residents over the weekend and they'llhave food trucks there and you'll have a
big band there playing and you have aplayground there.
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So that whole lawn just fills up withwonderful, wonderful activity.
We got a brand new fitness facility.
We got a brand new dog park.
We got another couple more pools.
So.
It's loaded with amenities, butimportantly, you know, kind of the glue
for these great neighborhoods is ourlifestyle programming.
day one, we have this wonderful group ofprofessionals and what they do is they
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have fun and they energize all thesewonderful amenities that we created.
It's great to spend the money on them, butyou want people to use them.
And we hear from them as to what's workingand what's not working so that the next
project we can keep turning the volume upand whatever that might mean.
So, so really.
really fun, good, solid group.
There are ambassadors on the front end.
I think we've sold a few homes throughtheir social media, sight unseen,
(23:41):
especially during COVID.
There were several homes that were beingsold online.
So pretty amazing stuff.
That's great.
Okay.
Let's talk about, I'm really wanting toknow about your Austin property that I was
heard about and saw the prototype homewhen I was in Austin, because I'm blown
away by icon homes.
They're amazing.
That is amazing.
Yeah.
(24:01):
Is it Wolf?
Wolf Ranch, exactly right in Georgetown,which is north of Boston.
So it's another great project, probably intotal.
It's in the 23, 2400 home range.
It's probably has again, another three orfour years left to sell.
Most of our big master plans that wecurrently have on the books today, we
(24:21):
oversold over the last three years.
It's just been such a hot market.
could you oversell?
Did we just kick people out of homes?
Yeah, the demand is just greater than weever expected.
So every time we delivered these lots,they would just be sold just like that.
So we're in this big rebuilding year rightnow.
We probably have 3 ,500 lots that we'reunder development right now, which is our
(24:42):
biggest development year that we've everhad.
So big rebuilding.
But back to your question on Wolf Ranch.
Yes, it's got a variety of great product.
It's selling quite well.
And we tested...
because costs were so high and getting theworkforce to show up and getting the
supply chain to be figured outappropriately.
(25:04):
A couple of visionaries, Lennar Homes andICON together came to build these homes
and they asked for our approval becausethey were going to do it with ranch and we
said, absolutely.
So innovation, takes this kind ofinnovation and takes courage to go create
this new product and I think it'swonderful product.
It's beautiful product.
And it's all done with a 3D printedcomponent printer.
(25:29):
they're good looking.
looking.
They're kind of got this contemporary lookto them.
They popped up the ceilings.
They've got this wonderful roof on them,standing seam roof on them.
It's beautiful.
they're Now, but they're not inexpensiveeither.
They're about the same price as the maybeeven a little bit higher than the stick
-built home.
so we really need to focus on how can webring
(25:51):
But it'll take that sort of innovationwhere can you bring that down even some
more and do it thoughtfully and do it withquality.
that's the thing.
We've been researching a couple of thesedifferent builders who are trying to do
like the manufactured, the nicemanufactured prefab housing, but they're
not that much cheaper than the sticks.
(26:13):
That's the challenge.
And I don't want any of them to quitbecause they're going it out.
But together it does take a village.
So it'll be talking to...
groups like that, ourselves, thejurisdictions, those folks are challenged
with the transportation to get that hometo, whereas ICON, you know, built it on
right there on site.
(26:33):
And it's quiet, it's robotic, the waste ishardly anything, there's not a lot of
trash blown around, there's a lot of pausethat is behind that.
So I'm hopeful that we can continue thatsort of approach and keep bringing the
price down and having the quality there as
I know we've got to wrap, but tell me onemore cause I love your products.
One more community.
well I'll tell you real quick.
(26:53):
As I mentioned, we are running out ofproduct and so our acquisition team is on
it in a big way and all of our markets.
are growing Houston, we are growing Austinand we're DFW.
We have four new projects underway, fourbig projects underway.
So we have three in North Texas.
we got our Ramble project in Salina.
(27:15):
You know where Celina is?
Yes.
North of Frisco.
Love it.
It's hot.
Literally hot.
A lot of activity happening in Celina andwe've been there for many, many years.
And so we're really proud to have a newproject there.
1 ,400 acres, about 4 ,000 lots.
It'll, we'll break ground later this yearand we'll deliver sometime in at 25 and
homes will start selling in 26.
(27:38):
So that's.
Project number one, project number two isunderway in Justin, Texas.
You know, on the Alliance side of our, ofour Metroplex.
Over on the other side of Fort Worth.
Yes ma 'am.
You know where the boots are made?
Right there.
So Tree Line is the name of that project.
It's well underway.
We'll still deliver our model lots,probably fourth quarter of this year.
We should start selling homes early nextyear.
Would be, would be our goal.
(28:01):
And then Landmark, which is in Denton,Texas.
We're so excited about.
We've owned that property for many decadesnow.
It's on along I -35W.
It straddles on both sides.
You got these wonderful mother nature withthese beautiful knobs that have been there
forever.
And so we're going to protect the knobsand Landmark is the name and we've
(28:23):
selected our builders and we should breakground later this year and probably takes
us.
It takes about a year to year and a halfto deliver that first phase.
And then we have a big project in Houstoncalled Legacy.
in League City that is well underway rightnow that also will deliver end of the year
or first of the year.
So those are the four new ones that we'vegot underway and we probably have another
four on the drawing boards that we hope tobreak ground after that.
(28:45):
So very, very active.
And we will be covering those and wereally want to have you back to talk
about.
Well, I'd love to.
Thank you so much.
I think this was a wealth of information.
know, real estate's great up here.
The future looks very, very bright inTexas, especially North Texas.
So we're excited about what we do.
We love what we do.
One more thing, you don't mind, is justthe philanthropy behind what we do in our
(29:10):
communities.
One thing to develop these great,wonderful communities, there's probably
two programs that we're really excitedabout that we give back to.
One is the North Texas Food Bank in NorthTexas.
we're big in that group and Harveststarted that program for us as we were
kind of a perfect assimilation.
And so every time you come to a communityevent, you're encouraged to bring some
(29:32):
type of food.
And then we donate that out to thesedifferent pantries.
And then building homes for heroes, youknow, it's really all the way from Mr.
Perot Sr., who was big in the military, asyou know, and the give back he has had
forever.
So we will continue that.
So we give away at least two homes a yearin any one of our projects, or even our
joint venture projects outside of Texas toa wounded veteran.
(29:56):
They'll get a mortgage free home in one ofour communities.
So we've had several celebrations.
in our communities and it's great for thecommunity.
It's great for the veterans and theirfamilies and so it's a wonderful program
that we enjoy doing.
thank you for sharing those with usbecause we're big fans of those kind of
programs and I love everything you'redoing and I think housing is the most
(30:16):
exciting story in the face of the earthand I have never faltered in that thought
so it's great to talk with you and hearwhat you guys are doing.
pleasure.
Thank you.
you, Hillwood.
Thank you, Fred.
And to be continued.
to be continued.
you.
Thank you for joining us today.
And I think there's a lot of informationthat we packed into this.
So enjoy it and stay tuned for the nextDallas Dirt.
I'm Candy Evans and this is Dallas Dirt.
Let me tell you who my guest is today.
It's Fred Balda, who's president ofHillwood Communities.
I've known Fred for a long time.
We have a little bit of a history in CostaRica that we will not tell you about just
yet.
(00:26):
I am so excited to have you here today.
Thank you for coming.
Thank you for having me.
It's my pleasure.
I've been watching a lot of your podcasts,so I'm honored to be on it.
we'd love that you're watching.
We'd love that you're here.
And Hillwood's Union Park was just namedthe master planned community of the year.
But was it by the ULI that did that?
I believe or it was by the Dallas BuildersAssociation, which is a huge, huge
(00:52):
distinction and honor.
Big honor.
We're proud of it.
I'm so proud of you guys.
Maybe for your audience, maybe a littlebit about.
who am I with and then I'll bring it downto Hillwood communities.
Exactly.
How about that?
We're going to start by saying that he isan amazing leader of an amazing company
that is headed by Ross Perot.
Yes.
Ross Perot Jr.
is our leader and he started Hillwood in1988 with the beginning of the Alliance
(01:18):
development, which is anchored by theworld's first industrial airport.
And so out of that particular project camea variety of disciplines.
We have four main competencies.
We got our industrial distribution group,which has really got a huge platform,
literally across the world.
They've done about 270 million square feetand they currently have about 70 million
square feet that they own and manage.
(01:39):
We have a commercial division that isdeveloping wonderful commercial
properties.
They've done about three and a halfmillion square feet and they currently
have about a million seven that they stillown and manage.
And they're actually building the GoldmanSachs building down at Victory, which is
800 ,000 square feet.
And when it delivers a few years from now,it'll be 5 ,000 employees coming into that
part of town, which is wonderful activity.
(02:00):
We have a huge news for Dallas in thatpart.
Uh, victory has been very, very active.
Multifamily is also a huge part of ourbusiness.
They probably have delivered 4 ,000 unitsand they probably do 600 units, two
products a year is kind of their cadenceright now.
And then of course, the division that Imanage, which is Hillwood communities,
we've done nearly a hundred.
(02:21):
projects across the nation that we'veowned or managed Which represents about 50
,000 lots.
So if you do the math 50 ,000 lots timesthree people per home That's a hundred and
fifty thousand people.
These are literally cities that we aredeveloping really across mostly North
Texas We currently have 12 projects.
(02:41):
Eight of those are in the Dallas area andthe other four in Austin and Houston.
Are you primarily in Texas?
Are you
We're primarily on our own account inTexas, the great state of Texas, the great
Republic of Texas, but we also invest inother markets.
So we have several partners, greatpartners, local partners in Florida, North
(03:03):
Carolina, Northern Virginia, those marketswe love.
And so we have a representation there withother partners and we happen to be their
equity.
and they do the daily work like we do herein Texas.
The equity means you invest the capital.
We're the capital, the majority of thecapital for them.
And so they do wonderful work and we havea wonderful relationship and we trade a
(03:25):
lot of secrets back and forth.
So we all become better in thatrelationship.
So it's not just about capital, it's aboutlearning and getting better constantly.
And you learn from them for yourcommunity.
Both.
think we can add value to them and theycertainly add value to us.
So we
getting better.
The bar keeps getting setting higher andhigher.
Homes are the topic of conversation now,which is amazing.
(03:47):
I mean, we have evolved into this, thatthe con that we're talking about at the
federal level, we're talking about atthis, at the local level because there's
not enough housing out there.
And you guys, this is why I'm so excitedto have you here because you guys are
making housing.
I mean, you're creating housing and Ithink your price points are somewhere,
what, in the
Well, they're higher than they've everbeen.
(04:07):
So we'll talk about affordability reallybeing the core issue of housing right now.
But today to get into our projects, we'reaveraging $600 ,000 in these wonderful
projects where we used to be averagingthree or 400 ,000 not too long ago.
So kind of a case in point would be in2019, our average priced home in all of
(04:28):
our communities, our portfolio ofcommunities across the great state of
Texas would have been about $350 ,000.
That was the average priced home in ourgreat communities.
And at the time, the interest rate was 4%.
And when you do the PITI, principalinterest taxes insurance, the payment for
the homeowners that are buying thosehomes, they were probably $2 ,300 a month.
(04:50):
And the qualification for that $2 ,300 amonth meant 92 ,000 household income.
Today, you take that $600 ,000 home withthis new, unbelievably high interest rate
of 7%,
So 600,000 7% is $4,800, $4,900 PITI.
And that equates to about $195 ,000household income.
(05:12):
Not sustainable, very, very expensiveright now.
Even so we're seeing a huge demand stillcoming into this marketplace, which I can
tell you more about, but it's justphenomenal, still good business.
It's just very pricey right now.
And again, I always like to have readersand viewers understand.
why it's pricey.
It's not that you guys are just out therelike putting tons of money in the bank.
(05:35):
It's because of the interest rates.
It's because of the regulations.
It's because of all of these things thatare piled on top of you as the developer,
correct?
Exactly right.
So it starts with land.
Yes.
So land prices have not gone down.
No.
One iota.
In fact, they're continuing to go up.
I would say our construction costs arestarting to level off.
So that's a positive, but they're stillhigh, but they're leveling up.
(05:55):
They're not coming down, which is what weneed.
So that's high, that cost is high.
The entitlements still take a long time.
Entitlement meaning?
Entitlements meaning zoning.
whatever we do out here in North Texas, weneed zoning to accomplish.
You go to the community.
We go to the city officials or thejurisdiction and we ask them for a variety
of zoning, which allows us to do a varietyof product, which is really important in
(06:18):
these big master plans to have the abilityto bring on a whole pilot of different
types of housing.
When you have these big projects that
a couple of decades old, know, economy isgoing to constantly change as it's
changing right now.
It's important for us to have a smallerfootprint of a lot, which allows a smaller
footprint of a home and all that isdictated by zoning.
(06:39):
So if you do it right on the front end,you can kind of get through these times
that we're dealing with right now.
So we're still challenged, but we least wehave a fighting chance of meeting some
good demand that's out there right now.
So we develop the communities and we sellour lots to home builders.
To be clear, we don't build the homes.
You don't build the homes.
We build these beautiful masterfulcommunities.
But you what they want in thosecommunities.
(07:03):
You betcha.
So like they want pools, they want walkingtrails, What do they want?
All the above.
so...
So the master plans, the amenities, Iguess is what you're asking is what's
important to the buyers coming into ourmaster plans.
We do a variety of amenities, but I wouldsay the basic ones that they keep
(07:28):
repeating and asking for, even when I wasyounger, are trails.
Trails and open space are key to everymaster plan.
But beyond that, we still do the pools,parks, playgrounds.
They're all a little bit themeddifferently now.
Pickleball versus tennis.
Pickleball is huge right now.
Have you ever played pickleball?
Yes.
Pickleball is a lot of fun.
Be careful because you think you canstretch a little bit more.
Be careful.
A lot of these, these,
(07:50):
Doctor offices are seeing a lot of folkslike you and me coming in there with a
sore this and a sore that.
But pickleball is really big.
All the different kind of courts are stillbig.
Basketball is big.
Tennis is still big.
Workout facilities are big.
It's all about health.
Health and outdoors, if possible.
So again, so we're loaded with all that.
And it's also the furry pets.
(08:11):
Your dogs have a place in these masterplans and they're getting bigger and
better.
And so we benchmark nearly everything wedo.
So we were constantly on the road lookingat the best and greatest of California or
the East Coast or wherever.
and you'll start to see a lot more masterplans pop up here in North Texas.
(08:32):
We haven't had a whole lot of that, butnow you get some wonderful competitors of
ours that are up here doing great work.
Why is that?
you think?
Well, I think there's a lot of relocationhappening.
So people are almost demanding it anddevelopers need to probably
build bigger projects so that they're notcompeting with the builders that are also
(08:53):
developing quite a few lots right now.
So the bigger we can go is the more we canaggregate, the more economies of scale
that we can bring in and we can deliver tothe private builders in a big way that
they can't go develop their own lot.
So you're seeing bigger projects likethat.
And so in times like this, when inflationhas really gone big, no pun intended, is
(09:13):
how do we bring these costs
So we can aggregate a lot more bybringing, you know, bigger programs in.
We can sell more lots that way.
We can keep the price generallyreasonable.
So it takes that and it takes zoning.
So size does matter in these bigcommunities to be able to deliver the type
of amenities that we think are important.
Importantly, you know, I think what we doa good job at, sorry, what we do a great
(09:37):
job at is great planning on thesecommunities.
So our master plans have a great sense ofarrival.
When you get there, you're going to see
variety of home builders with a variety ofproduct type, great architecture and great
amenities and amenities and amenities.
People love that.
And on -site schools, that's veryimportant for our buyers right now.
So when we do that, you get a lot morepeople buying into your community right
(10:02):
now.
Today, because of affordability,
we're having to go a little bit smaller onthese lots and a little bit smaller on the
footprint of these homes.
that's how you're keeping the costs down.
We're doing the best we can to do it, butit's important not to rock the boat.
Remember what brung you is a lot of ourgood core product.
and people expect the best out of thesemaster plans.
So the, the smaller product that we'rebringing on right now, it's quality stuff.
(10:24):
mean, it looks great.
It fits in nicely.
So that's one attempt at trying to hitaffordability.
The other attempt is a lot of folks aren'tready to buy just yet.
So this build for rent product is alsoreally...
What do you think about that?
I like it and I believe in the thesisagain because folks aren't quite ready yet
but they want to test drive this wonderfulmaster plan.
So why don't I test drive it in a greatway?
(10:45):
I can bring my kids and put them inschool.
I can test drive these amenities.
I can see who lives there and how I cansocialize better.
And so that's working out great.
Do you think that's going to harm the homebuying?
It's a good question.
No, because what we do with our...
We have a partner that's building these,build for rent homes called BB Living.
They're out of Phoenix.
(11:06):
They know what they're doing.
But what I loved about them is they alsolistened to the type of product we wanted.
And so that product needed to look good.
It needed to feel good.
And so the alternative would have been forthat consumer to maybe go to an apartment
and people you might remember in COVID,they were getting out of the apartment.
wanted a home, whether it was for purchaseor for rent.
So now we're able to offer a for rentproduct.
(11:28):
in our communities without rocking theboat.
that you're keying in on a key point, butI think we're, we've unlocked a really
good, valuable product that I think issustainable in all of our master plan.
So we'll see more and more.
to hear that because that gets people inthe door.
It does.
Without the huge down payment.
does.
Cause he's Morgan, you heard my earlierstatement that, know, the PITI is 4 ,800
(11:49):
bucks a month.
And so when you go live in a project likeHarvest, that's the number you're going
pay generally or you can live in thisbeautiful home for $3 ,200, $3 ,300 a
month, something like that.
And it's, doesn't go up.
It's, it's set for a year or two.
Well, yeah, it's set for the amount ofyour lease.
So it might be six months to a year orsomething like that.
(12:11):
So that's good.
Cause it's not only the pity, but part ofthat pity is the taxes, which keep going
up.
That's right.
And then the insurance, which I am reallyconcerned about is that it's going to be a
real killer.
I am too and I probably haven't honed inon the insurance enough, but it's going up
everywhere.
with all these big weather events, it'shitting all of us.
You personally, me personally.
Absolutely.
(12:31):
The other aspect, know, variety of productdoes matter in these master plans.
Okay.
Let's talk about that.
What kind of variety?
So I could be, you know, smaller footprintmight be a townhome or a 30 foot wide home
to a 40 foot wide
Our normal or normal cup of tea, you know,years ago would have been our 50, a 60
foot and a 70 foot.
(12:52):
That would have been our normal vernaculartalking about the size of a product or the
size of lot, which dictates the size ofhomes.
Now we're going smaller on that side ofit.
We're doing the bill for rent.
We're adding that side of it.
We're still going bigger.
There's still plenty of folks that want abigger home on a bigger lot.
That's going to continue to happen,especially in a maturing master plan
community.
(13:12):
The other thing that we're seeing is theactive adult product is also coming in a
big way.
Sometimes we dictate active adult andsometimes it's based on the product that
we're delivering.
So there is definitely like myself, anactive adult that really is that we're
catering to as well.
So if I had to give you percentages,families are still the big part of it.
(13:34):
65 to 75, 70 % of our buyers are familyoriented.
And then you might have youngprofessionals that is 15 to 20%.
and then you've got the active adult,which is 15 to 20%.
That kind of makes up our entire buyerprogram.
Well, I was going to ask you because I'mso glad to hear that you are kind of
diversifying that buyer to the front endof the, you know, maybe singles or maybe
(13:55):
people who won't, what is the doubleincome, no kids, you know, the dinks, you
know, they may be there forever and theymay want to live in that area.
That's the market we're dealing with.
So you better attend to them.
And again, I'm back to zoning.
So you better have the proper zoning thatallows you to meet and greet
whatever the market wants at the time.
Well, speaking of zoning, somemunicipalities like Fort Worth have
discussed imposing fees, impact fees forthese very large residential communities.
(14:19):
How does Hillwood view these fees?
Are they fair?
Are they a solution?
Well, we love Fort Worth.
So, Fort Worth, if you're listening, welove you.
We love you, too.
But across the board, I would say thesegrowing cities, part of it is just
inflation.
So, these impact fees are going up,period.
The real challenge in the debate we alwayshave is what is it going for?
(14:42):
Because normally these big master plans,they're paying their own way.
We're paying our own way.
We're creating great value.
We're creating higher priced homes, whichkind of take care of themselves.
So it's a sustainable operation that wecreate.
So why am I having to pay extra on theimpact?
So it's always a debate as to what is itgoing for?
Don't mind it, but what is it going for?
So I think we can spend our money
(15:05):
wiser and more efficiently than maybe thegovernment can.
And the other thing is you're creatingthese homes which are creating property
tax revenue for these communities.
you're actually contributing to them, nottaking away.
That's right.
(15:26):
So if we all understand the long runpicture.
then it's an easier conversation.
And honestly, but I respect all thecities.
They do have a budget that they've got todeal with.
So I just want to make sure that it'sbudgeted appropriately.
So of course this is all to really be openminded and open with each other.
(16:22):
the suburbia grew after COVID.
That's, as you said, that's where everyonewanted to go.
We got plenty to do in that space rightnow.
We can't keep up with it, to be honestwith you.
And in times like this, the master plandoes even better.
So I love the business that we're in.
It's very upfront cost expected to, youknow, when we put all these amenities in
and infrastructure in, it's a big dollarthat we got to put in.
(16:44):
Not many groups can do that.
So that diversity of product is reallyimportant,
I guess my point is that in good times andin bad times, that buyer really is
attracted to the master plan, especiallyin a downturn time where they're really
conscientious about where they spend theirmoney.
So am going to spend my money here or thisvery successful master plan that I know
(17:04):
that I'm going to make some sort ofinvestment on my investment or return on
my investment, I should
Absolutely.
And did work from home kind of give youguys a big boost?
It did.
It did.
COVID of course supercharged us.
Uh huh.
Uh, I was going to tell you earlier thatI've been with Hillwood for, I'm on my
32nd year at Hillwood.
(17:27):
in that period of time, I've been through,I started in a recession.
1992 was, we were coming out of a terriblerecession.
2000, there was a mini recession.
And then 08 through 12 was anotherterrible recession.
So I've had three recessions and you wouldthink every eight to 10 years there ought
to be another.
And there would have been if COVID hadn'tcome in in 2020.
(17:50):
know, 2019 was still a decent year, butthings were starting to slow a bit.
But it kind of supercharged us again.
So we kind of avoided what might've been anormal recession.
So we just haven't seen it.
So we're constantly looking at...
Where are we heading with thismarketplace?
What gives me confidence in this place isincredible job creation.
(18:10):
The last 10 years we've averaged a hundredthousand jobs a year.
So a million jobs in, D F W in NorthTexas, which is one of the hottest, you
know, new employment sectors in the nationis creating a lot of new housing demand.
We've got a lot of population coming inhere.
want to say the number is 375 people everyday.
(18:32):
are showing up in this marketplace rightnow.
So when you do the mathematics, Aggiemath, that's 170 ,000 new people being
created in this marketplace.
That's every six years, we got a millionpeople coming into this place.
And so we're sitting at about 8 .1 millionpeople in the Metroplex.
We're number four.
(18:52):
Chicago is sitting at about 9 million.
So the prediction is in 2028, we're goingto be the number three most populated
Metro.
in the US.
So a lot of good growth here.
The work from home has also allowed us tohave additional growth that we didn't
count on.
So there's still plenty of people workingfrom home, not as much as it was clearly
(19:13):
in COVID, but still a larger percentagethan we've seen in the past.
That airport is incredibly important atDFW airport.
So when we look for new places, you know,it's like if you're 30 minutes from that
next work opportunity, that's important,or 30 minutes from the airport.
That's important.
So that's kind of where we kind oftriangulate as to where where's our next
(19:34):
big deal.
(20:45):
I want to talk about your propertiesthough.
Let's go through them.
I'm not going to ask you for your favoriteone.
Although I'm a big Harvest fan because Ijust think the concept is so cool.
So let's start with Harvest.
Tell me about Harvest.
Yeah.
Harvest just celebrated its 10th yearanniversary of selling homes.
When it builds out, we'll have about 4,400 homes.
(21:06):
There's probably three or four years leftof really good sales activity in that
program.
It's not all sold out yet.
It's not, we still have a few more phasesleft to develop, it's probably 3000 homes
on the ground today.
it's North Texas?
It's North Lake.
North Lake and Argyle.
It's kind of split.
The horsey country.
(21:27):
The horsey country.
Yes.
Yes, exactly right.
So the horsey country, which used to bekind of farm country.
So we tipped our hat to that farmingcommunity by creating harvest.
And so we got this magnificent older...
farmhouse, which was built in the 1870s.
And we retrofitted it and made it theiconic view as you're coming into the
(21:49):
program.
And then next to it, we created some cropfields and we created some five
greenhouses and we hired a professionalfarmer to kind of help.
could, he could grow his own crop in the,the greenhouses.
But part of the give back for him was thathe would teach our residents how to grow
things, which is really cool and neat.
So we have, think 170 raised
(22:09):
where the community rents a planter forthe year.
I think it's, I don't know, 80 bucks ayear.
It's not about the money, but justcommitment.
And so it's really taken off.
But separately from just that agrihoodthat it started out to Agrihood.
I love that word.
You like that word?
Love it.
Okay.
Good.
I made it up.
I'm joking.
And so we still do all the other niceamenities and you got this mile and half
(22:34):
central park, I call it.
that has a variety of different amenitiesall the way up.
It's kind of North South oriented thatallows additional amenities.
It might be an entertainment venue where aband will come in and play for the
residents over the weekend and they'llhave food trucks there and you'll have a
big band there playing and you have aplayground there.
(22:55):
So that whole lawn just fills up withwonderful, wonderful activity.
We got a brand new fitness facility.
We got a brand new dog park.
We got another couple more pools.
So.
It's loaded with amenities, butimportantly, you know, kind of the glue
for these great neighborhoods is ourlifestyle programming.
day one, we have this wonderful group ofprofessionals and what they do is they
(23:18):
have fun and they energize all thesewonderful amenities that we created.
It's great to spend the money on them, butyou want people to use them.
And we hear from them as to what's workingand what's not working so that the next
project we can keep turning the volume upand whatever that might mean.
So, so really.
really fun, good, solid group.
There are ambassadors on the front end.
I think we've sold a few homes throughtheir social media, sight unseen,
(23:41):
especially during COVID.
There were several homes that were beingsold online.
So pretty amazing stuff.
That's great.
Okay.
Let's talk about, I'm really wanting toknow about your Austin property that I was
heard about and saw the prototype homewhen I was in Austin, because I'm blown
away by icon homes.
They're amazing.
That is amazing.
Yeah.
(24:01):
Is it Wolf?
Wolf Ranch, exactly right in Georgetown,which is north of Boston.
So it's another great project, probably intotal.
It's in the 23, 2400 home range.
It's probably has again, another three orfour years left to sell.
Most of our big master plans that wecurrently have on the books today, we
(24:21):
oversold over the last three years.
It's just been such a hot market.
could you oversell?
Did we just kick people out of homes?
Yeah, the demand is just greater than weever expected.
So every time we delivered these lots,they would just be sold just like that.
So we're in this big rebuilding year rightnow.
We probably have 3 ,500 lots that we'reunder development right now, which is our
(24:42):
biggest development year that we've everhad.
So big rebuilding.
But back to your question on Wolf Ranch.
Yes, it's got a variety of great product.
It's selling quite well.
And we tested...
because costs were so high and getting theworkforce to show up and getting the
supply chain to be figured outappropriately.
(25:04):
A couple of visionaries, Lennar Homes andICON together came to build these homes
and they asked for our approval becausethey were going to do it with ranch and we
said, absolutely.
So innovation, takes this kind ofinnovation and takes courage to go create
this new product and I think it'swonderful product.
It's beautiful product.
And it's all done with a 3D printedcomponent printer.
(25:29):
they're good looking.
looking.
They're kind of got this contemporary lookto them.
They popped up the ceilings.
They've got this wonderful roof on them,standing seam roof on them.
It's beautiful.
they're Now, but they're not inexpensiveeither.
They're about the same price as the maybeeven a little bit higher than the stick
-built home.
so we really need to focus on how can webring
(25:51):
But it'll take that sort of innovationwhere can you bring that down even some
more and do it thoughtfully and do it withquality.
that's the thing.
We've been researching a couple of thesedifferent builders who are trying to do
like the manufactured, the nicemanufactured prefab housing, but they're
not that much cheaper than the sticks.
(26:13):
That's the challenge.
And I don't want any of them to quitbecause they're going it out.
But together it does take a village.
So it'll be talking to...
groups like that, ourselves, thejurisdictions, those folks are challenged
with the transportation to get that hometo, whereas ICON, you know, built it on
right there on site.
(26:33):
And it's quiet, it's robotic, the waste ishardly anything, there's not a lot of
trash blown around, there's a lot of pausethat is behind that.
So I'm hopeful that we can continue thatsort of approach and keep bringing the
price down and having the quality there as
I know we've got to wrap, but tell me onemore cause I love your products.
One more community.
well I'll tell you real quick.
(26:53):
As I mentioned, we are running out ofproduct and so our acquisition team is on
it in a big way and all of our markets.
are growing Houston, we are growing Austinand we're DFW.
We have four new projects underway, fourbig projects underway.
So we have three in North Texas.
we got our Ramble project in Salina.
(27:15):
You know where Celina is?
Yes.
North of Frisco.
Love it.
It's hot.
Literally hot.
A lot of activity happening in Celina andwe've been there for many, many years.
And so we're really proud to have a newproject there.
1 ,400 acres, about 4 ,000 lots.
It'll, we'll break ground later this yearand we'll deliver sometime in at 25 and
homes will start selling in 26.
(27:38):
So that's.
Project number one, project number two isunderway in Justin, Texas.
You know, on the Alliance side of our, ofour Metroplex.
Over on the other side of Fort Worth.
Yes ma 'am.
You know where the boots are made?
Right there.
So Tree Line is the name of that project.
It's well underway.
We'll still deliver our model lots,probably fourth quarter of this year.
We should start selling homes early nextyear.
Would be, would be our goal.
(28:01):
And then Landmark, which is in Denton,Texas.
We're so excited about.
We've owned that property for many decadesnow.
It's on along I -35W.
It straddles on both sides.
You got these wonderful mother nature withthese beautiful knobs that have been there
forever.
And so we're going to protect the knobsand Landmark is the name and we've
(28:23):
selected our builders and we should breakground later this year and probably takes
us.
It takes about a year to year and a halfto deliver that first phase.
And then we have a big project in Houstoncalled Legacy.
in League City that is well underway rightnow that also will deliver end of the year
or first of the year.
So those are the four new ones that we'vegot underway and we probably have another
four on the drawing boards that we hope tobreak ground after that.
(28:45):
So very, very active.
And we will be covering those and wereally want to have you back to talk
about.
Well, I'd love to.
Thank you so much.
I think this was a wealth of information.
know, real estate's great up here.
The future looks very, very bright inTexas, especially North Texas.
So we're excited about what we do.
We love what we do.
One more thing, you don't mind, is justthe philanthropy behind what we do in our
(29:10):
communities.
One thing to develop these great,wonderful communities, there's probably
two programs that we're really excitedabout that we give back to.
One is the North Texas Food Bank in NorthTexas.
we're big in that group and Harveststarted that program for us as we were
kind of a perfect assimilation.
And so every time you come to a communityevent, you're encouraged to bring some
(29:32):
type of food.
And then we donate that out to thesedifferent pantries.
And then building homes for heroes, youknow, it's really all the way from Mr.
Perot Sr., who was big in the military, asyou know, and the give back he has had
forever.
So we will continue that.
So we give away at least two homes a yearin any one of our projects, or even our
joint venture projects outside of Texas toa wounded veteran.
(29:56):
They'll get a mortgage free home in one ofour communities.
So we've had several celebrations.
in our communities and it's great for thecommunity.
It's great for the veterans and theirfamilies and so it's a wonderful program
that we enjoy doing.
thank you for sharing those with usbecause we're big fans of those kind of
programs and I love everything you'redoing and I think housing is the most
(30:16):
exciting story in the face of the earthand I have never faltered in that thought
so it's great to talk with you and hearwhat you guys are doing.
pleasure.
Thank you.
you, Hillwood.
Thank you, Fred.
And to be continued.
to be continued.
you.
Thank you for joining us today.
And I think there's a lot of informationthat we packed into this.
So enjoy it and stay tuned for the nextDallas Dirt.
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