January 27, 2025 • 66 mins
🎙️ Exciting Interview Release on Mental Health is Wealth! 🎙️We are thrilled to announce the release of an inspiring and insightful interview with the incredible Catherine Warnock! 🌟 Catherine will be joining us to share her journey, expertise, and perspectives on mental health and well-being.In this episode, we dive deep into the challenges and triumphs of mental health, exploring practical strategies for maintaining wellness in today's fast-paced world. Catherine's unique insights and personal experiences make this a must-listen episode! Be sure to like, comment, and share to spread the word. Tune in and subscribe to our podcast for more inspiring content.#MentalHealthIsWealth #CatherineWarnock #Podcast #MentalHealth #WellBeing #Inspiration #Empowerment
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, good to see you both. The group behind
this says it has its work cut out for it
because it's going to require one million signatures to get
this initiative on the ballot. But according to researchers, the
preliminary clinical trials are showing absolutely astounding results.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
This is very personal for you.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I served thirty one years of my life part of
my job as a seal. I was over in Iraq
and Afghanistan multiple times. I definitely had traumatic events.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Former Navy Seal Guy McDermott left the military and joined
Glendale Fire as a firefighter paramedic, thinking he could evade
his trauma.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
That was on a critical call and it was a child,
the same agent as my son, and for the first
time in my life, I froze and it almost killed me.
Because after that I went in a spiral and it
got to a point where I wanted to end my
own life.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
McDermott says therapy paired with psychedelics saved him.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I was seeing a lot of my friends go down,
leave the country and do these very powerful psychedelics, and
they were coming back with this new profound sense of life.
I went down to experience it myself. And my life
couldn't be any better than it is now.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
That's why he believes a new initiative to research psychedelic
assistant therapy would be groundbreaking for those who suffer like
he did. What is treat California?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
So it's the people of California coming together and demanding
that our state government create a funding agency to fund
research on psychedelic assistant therapy, to train therapists, and then
making it accessible to all citizens of California.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Doctor Jeanie Fontana, who's renowned for her work in advancing
stem cell research to fight diseases like als, is spearheading
Treat California.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
We have this mental health crisis in our country, particularly
in our state.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
While the National Institute of Health says traditional antidepressants only
work for thirty percent of patients long term, the clinical
trials for psychedelic therapy are showing promising results. What is
research telling you so far?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
After just three administrations taking MDMA three times in the
container in the context of therapy, eighty percent of them
had significant decrease in symptoms, and a year later, sixty
seven percent no longer qualified for PTSD.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Psychedelic therapist doctor Nick Bruce says similar results were seen
with a study out of Johns Hopkins for psilocybin, the
active ingredient in magic mushrooms. What difference have you seen
in your patients.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I've seen people get their lives back. Psychedelics create an
environment in the brain that help us approach rather than
avoid the information that needs to be processed.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Critics say more research is needed, and doctors warn people
with certain conditions like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder should steer clear,
but for other mental health challenges. A growing list of
health experts, including former emergency room doctor Sarah Betty, are
getting behind Treat California. As an er doctor, what I
would see frequently coming into my emergency room where a
(02:59):
lot of chronic health conditions, and it sometimes felt.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Like a revolving door.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
Why would we not want to.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Offer them access to these incredible medicines when we know
the preliminary results are showing such promise. She hopes California
voters will.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Agree it really allow me to get my life back.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Christina Pascucci Fox a lot of news, So advocates behind
Treat California are going to have six months to collect
a million signatures. That's no easy task if they're able
to do that. As we go on the ballot and
it'll be up to Californias to cast their vote. If
you want more information, you can go to treat California
dot org. I'll send it back to you.
Speaker 7 (03:42):
Welcome the mental health as well the podcast where we
explore the connection between your mind and your money. Today
we help you achieve mental wellness and financial freedom.
Speaker 8 (03:52):
In this podcast, we'll talk about topics that says stress management, budgeting, investment,
self care, and more.
Speaker 7 (04:00):
Also, hear from experts and guests who will show their
insights and expertise on how they cope with the challenges
of life and money. Rather you're struggling with anxiety, depression, debt,
or anything in between, this is the.
Speaker 8 (04:10):
Podcast for you. Join me every week.
Speaker 7 (04:13):
As we learn how to take care of our mental
health and grow our wealth.
Speaker 8 (04:17):
Remember mental health is well. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 7 (04:24):
Today Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, everybody. We have a great show
lined up for you. Today we're digging deeper into this
philocybin MDMA assisted therapy, psychedelics for whatever you want to
call it. Man, we're gonna get some more information. We've
been getting some great, great information from our experts. We
(04:47):
talked about just the general overall therapy part. Last week
we touched on how psilocybin and psychedelics can help with
can help with autism and people overcoming those type of
challenges and depression.
Speaker 8 (05:03):
Is just great, great, great.
Speaker 7 (05:04):
But today we have Catherine or not in today and
she I'm sure she has a bunch of those letters
after her name. I'm going to let her explain what
that means. But thank you for joining us today, Catherine,
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 8 (05:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (05:23):
So I am a licensed professional counselor un licensed in
New Mexico, Texas.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Colorado, and Washington. Wow.
Speaker 9 (05:32):
Yeah, what's interesting though about that when you said I
have all these things behind my name. Once you start
working with psychedelics, those things don't really mean much anymore.
Speaker 8 (05:45):
Got hurt.
Speaker 9 (05:48):
You know, they're there because they get your foot in
the door. But really, when you start working and maybe
even developing a relationship with certain medicines, start to learn
that those things are just boxes that you check, They're
just things that you accomplish, but they don't really represent
(06:08):
the work that we do.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
It's deeper than that. It's it's.
Speaker 9 (06:14):
Broader than just the labels. So I'm just really happy
to be here today.
Speaker 8 (06:20):
Wow. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 7 (06:22):
So I definitely understand that sentiment that is brother than
the labels, because, for one, this seems to be untarted
territory to some and new a lot of new, groundbreaking stuff,
so past studies may not definitely necessarily tied to the
school side of the training that we're touching all of that, right, So,
(06:48):
can you share a bit about your background? What got
you interested with psilocybin assistant therapy.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Sure.
Speaker 9 (06:55):
So I'm an older lady. I'm actually fifty six years old.
So I've actually had two careers. My first career, I
was actually a forensic scientist. I did DNA analysis and
crime scene or Yeah, so I have a science background,
and then I decided I really wanted to follow my passion,
which was counseling, and so I went back to school
(07:19):
to do that. So I went from a black and
white science to a gray science. And one of the
things that I have a lot of passion for is
helping people resolve trauma. I'm a huge believer that depression, anxiety, PTSD, anger, guilt,
and shame, all of these really kind of come from
(07:40):
past traumas that we haven't resolved, and I really dove
in I have a lot of trauma in my past,
and I think when you're going when you're a counselor
in training, you're really forced to kind of face a
lot of your past. And what I started to learn
was that I wanted to help people resolve their traumas.
Want people to have joy. I don't want people feeling stuck.
(08:03):
I want people to be free of depression and anxiety
and anger and guilt and shame. And I actually personally
went through a pretty extensive I went through some health issues.
I've I had both hipsmart both of my hips were placed,
and I had to battle cancer and all of those
(08:24):
pretty much led me to start looking at these studies
that were being done to help people that were dying
of cancer live good, abundant lives in their final years.
I thought, how is that possible? You know, there's anger,
there's guilt, there's shame, and psychedelics. The research they were
(08:44):
starting to do research and on a science galp from
my first careers and I just started reading about this
and I thought, Ah, there's something to this, Like I
have been working so hard to help people resolve trauma.
But there suddenly I was finding there was this new
way way.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
Of doing things that makes.
Speaker 9 (09:01):
It faster, and it's more profound, and it tends to
be a lot more successful.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
So I started working with that. And just to give you.
Speaker 9 (09:12):
A little bit more about my personal story, I actually
had severe depression that I was taking medications for big
pharma pharmaceuticals for thirty years, and I thought I was
going to be on them for the rest of my life.
And I was okay with that because it managed my depression.
It allowed me to be functional.
Speaker 8 (09:31):
It helped you cope with the moment.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
It did.
Speaker 9 (09:35):
It did. Unfortunately, now I can see that it numbed
me and it actually took a lot of It took
my lows away, but.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
It took my highs away too.
Speaker 9 (09:44):
It actually put me kind of more in this like
just yeah, just like a medium zone where I could function.
But was I living? Right, That's the question I asked myself. Now,
was I really living? I was existing, I was functioning,
I was give it done. But then when I started,
(10:06):
you know, experiencing psilocybin myself, because I wasn't going to
work with clients if I hadn't experienced it so that
I know what this is. I was able to actually
get off my pharmaceuticals and I've been free of them
for about I guess it's been a year and a half.
Two oh, no, two years now. I've been free of
pharmaceuticals and I don't have depression. I also don't have
(10:29):
anger or anxiety. I don't have guilt and shame. And
being free of those things and being able to now
have like normal feelings, normal highs, normal lows, It's kind
of opened up a whole new world for me, and
I'm like, Wow, I want all the people to know
(10:50):
and be able to have a new experience of what
living really is.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
It's not just numbing.
Speaker 7 (10:56):
Ah okay, the enlightening parts though, where it opens up
the mind and the expanding parts.
Speaker 8 (11:05):
Well, someone told me.
Speaker 7 (11:09):
They explained to me being off rooms of like a
constant expansion of colors in their heads.
Speaker 9 (11:15):
That's definitely. Colors is one thing I would say. It's
an expansion of everything. Colors is the probably the most
the first one that you notice. But it's also an
expansion of your emotions, an expansion of your self, understanding
of self, love, of feeling connected to the world. But
(11:39):
for me, I would say what really helped me the
most was resolving on my trauma. I thought that I
had depression that was hereditary. Now I know it wasn't hereditary.
It was trauma based. And once I resolved the trauma,
the depression went away. And it was modeling too. Can't
(12:00):
say it wasn't. My parents had depression, so I grew
up around what it looks like being depressed. So you
learn how to function in a depressing the world, right,
the modeling. But now I know that I don't have
hereditary depression because I don't have depression anymore.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
So I just resolved my trauma. Wo.
Speaker 7 (12:22):
So you mentioned about coming from the the criminal investigation
background to the counseling side, and then you talk about
the trauma of healing. What did you feel like it
was some of the work that you were doing with
that career also that led to it or was it
really about you discovering more about yourself that led you
(12:44):
to this.
Speaker 9 (12:45):
Yeah, the trauma was more childhood stuff that I experienced.
You know, I had a lot of alcoholism, a lot
of you know, depression in my family, which meant there
was a lot of neglect there. I can't say though,
that the crime scene stuff didn't add to the mix,
(13:08):
because it definitely did. We call that vicarious trauma, where
you're becoming traumatized.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
From, you know, the experience.
Speaker 9 (13:18):
Like I didn't, the trauma wasn't about me. But you know,
when you walk into a crime scene where people's you know,
they've been shot up, there's a there's a lot of blood,
it's very gory, it's it's pretty visually, can be pretty traumatic.
I would say all of that didn't help and added
to the mix. Especially I'm not trying to knock it
(13:41):
too much, but law enforcement, especially at the time, didn't
believe in mental health. They don't believe in getting any
seating treatment or therapy. They just believed in stuffing and
move on. I think that's starting to change, but there
really wasn't much in the way of support around mental
(14:02):
health in the forensic world. And that's a big part
of why I left it is because I couldn't. I
couldn't function fully in that world where they were literally
like shutting out a whole part of yourself, Like our
emotions are half of who we are, and to shut
that down and just ignore it isn't really gonna be
(14:25):
very healthy in the long run.
Speaker 8 (14:28):
That's true.
Speaker 7 (14:29):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's we got to get into that again.
That's a thank you for bringing that topic up. We
got to discover the policees, the police enforcements approach to
mental health. We had an incident today in Saint Louis
where a young man was walking down the street shooting.
Speaker 8 (14:47):
A gun in the air.
Speaker 7 (14:49):
And actually, unfortunately I've heard updates that someone lost their
life that was in the car driving by, but the
police ended up having to taken down by force, and
you know, unfortunately losses live. But there's no way like
it's like for one, different types of mental health and
(15:11):
then different levels of people being.
Speaker 8 (15:15):
Crazy, because that's what I mean. We can't call it
anything else.
Speaker 7 (15:20):
That's a crazy situation, unfortunate and very crazy what happened today.
So God blessed to the people in Saint Louis that
experienced that trauma today, and I hope you continue to
find the.
Speaker 8 (15:30):
Help that you need because it's very well needed.
Speaker 7 (15:33):
Well but back to you, Catherris, what can you compare
the training when it comes from even with the background,
from the DNA side to the counseling portion of it.
Now with the psilocybin assistant therapy, Can you talk about
the type of training and qualifications one might need to
understand this information.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
Sure.
Speaker 9 (15:56):
So one of the things I'll tell you is, because
psychedelics is still new, very new, it's in the infancy stages,
there isn't a lot of training options yet. There are some.
They are usually about a year long program. But I
ended up going up to Canada to get trained because
(16:16):
I felt that in Canada they're not only they're not
not only are were they using the research trial models,
they're also like helping people get the services that they need.
And their program was much more succinct and it's not
like a year long. So right now there are some
(16:37):
universities that have the programs. I actually offer a training
to healing practitioners. It's a short training because here's the thing.
People are going to do this work with or without
the training. They're gonna right now. It's happening, right, it's happening.
So I actually offer a two day training that helps
(16:58):
people learn how to do this, learned how to have
positive outcomes, because I know people aren't going to put
out ten thousand dollars to get trained at a university
for a year, because even I don't want to pay
ten thousand dollars for that, I'm trying to offer something
that's going to give people some education because there aren't
(17:19):
a lot of.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
People that are offering training right now.
Speaker 7 (17:24):
So yeah, well, thank you for doing your part because
I mean, servicing any need in the community and the industry.
Speaker 8 (17:33):
Definitely, we can appreciate that.
Speaker 7 (17:35):
We had a question pop in I want to touch
on from Key Baker. Can psychedelics make you see things
that aren't there?
Speaker 8 (17:43):
So we're talking about that.
Speaker 7 (17:44):
We do definitely want to associate the benefits and the
risk of this, so you have to answer for on that.
Speaker 9 (17:50):
Yes, So I think you know you're really you're referring
to hallucinations, and yes, that is something that can happen,
and it largely depends on the amount that you're taking.
And here's what's weird is that when you're on psilocybin
(18:10):
in a safe way with support, you know, and you're
using it therapeutically, you may see things but they don't
feel scary. I know that sounds really strange, But when
ego goes offline, because that's the whole point we're getting
ego offline. Like for example, I recently had a journey
(18:32):
where my grandmother, who died when I was I guess
I was probably like twenty five years old. She appeared
to me and I had a whole conversation with her.
I know she wasn't there, but yes, I saw my grandmother.
I've had people say they see their pets that are past.
I've had people report that they were visited by an
(18:54):
alien who had valuable information to share with them. So yes, there,
you are going to see things that aren't there. What's
important though about the work that I do is we
offer a therapeutic experience where you are safe. You have
people guiding you to help keep you from, you know,
(19:15):
getting scared and freaking out around these things. Our job
is to remind you you took a powerful medicine. You're
going to experience and see things that you wouldn't normally
experience and see. And it's temporary, and we're not going
to let you run into the street. We've got you like,
we're protecting you, We're keeping you safe.
Speaker 8 (19:37):
It's okay to cry, key, it's okay to cry.
Speaker 9 (19:41):
There's a lot of crying. Actually, it's very emotional it's
very I've had some people who tell me they come
to this and they go, you know.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
I never cry. I never cry.
Speaker 9 (19:56):
I'm like, okay, well, mushrooms they tend to bring your
emotionality out. And literally, i'd say, half an hour in
to her experience, she was crying and I was telling her,
you know, so, how does it feel to cry? And
she goes, it's weird, but the mushrooms are telling me
I have to cry for my whole life because I've
(20:18):
never cried. And she did, and she left feeling so
much lighter and so much better. There is a lot
of emotions, that's for sure, and it and it does
make you cry. I mean yes, when I saw my grandmother,
I was crying.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
Because I couldn't.
Speaker 9 (20:35):
I was so happy to see her. It was beautiful
and it was awesome.
Speaker 7 (20:40):
So well, that's great that I'm hearing a lot of
similarities from the from the this world and the people
that I've been talking to that you definitely want to
be in an environment around someone who can help you
through the process.
Speaker 8 (20:58):
You definitely want.
Speaker 7 (20:59):
To make sure that you're in a like quiet environment.
It sounded like like when I was going through self hypnosis,
you can't have anything to distract you or set you
off in a moment, So you had to have to
protect your space when you're definitely dealing with psychedelic assisted therapy.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
Yes, well, and one thing I'll say about that, because
I want to make sure that this is really really
important and clear. When people use psychedelics recreationally, they're not
taking into account the set in the setting.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
So let me give you an example.
Speaker 9 (21:36):
If I'm hanging out with my buddies and we're around
a campfire and we're like, let's all do some mushrooms,
and we start doing mushrooms and then I didn't know this,
but the guy sitting next to me invited his frat
boys to come join us, and it turns out one
of them assaulted me two years ago. I'm probably going
to have a pretty bad experience.
Speaker 8 (21:57):
Right, Yeah, I was ready for that.
Speaker 9 (21:59):
Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 8 (22:02):
Yeah, we're bringing out right, the same.
Speaker 9 (22:05):
Thing goes for like if you go to a rave
and you've taken these drugs and now people are you know,
they're pushing into you, which is what a rave is,
and now you're reliving a sexual assault experience you had.
That's not going to be a good experience.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
Yeah, you're going to definitely be against the therapy part
of it altogether.
Speaker 9 (22:25):
Exactly, and then it can traumatize you, which is why
I'm a huge advocate for the therapeutic use. Now, I'm
not going to knock recreational because I think if you
do it safely, it can still be okay. But most
people don't understand what safely means and they don't do
the proper setup to make sure.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
That it's going to be a good experience.
Speaker 9 (22:48):
So I just want to make it really clear that
there's a distinction between recreational and therapeutic. And I've even
had people who have used it recreationally come for the
therapy and they tell me it's a.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Whole another level.
Speaker 9 (23:02):
It's not it's not your like your recreational unlocks so much,
but when you do it therapeutic, it unlocks it at.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
A whole new level. It's a different experience.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
Yeah, you got control, more control and direction, and I
understand you have again from the hypnosis world, you have
what they call instructions.
Speaker 8 (23:25):
Or thing prompts that help you through.
Speaker 7 (23:28):
So yeah, you're definitely discovering things and kind of that's
the basis. You're there in therapy to work through something.
So you're going to be digging stuff up. You can't,
you can't. You got to be there to dig stuff up.
Speaker 8 (23:42):
So go with it. Just go with it, that's all
I say. But do it responsibly of course, yes.
Speaker 9 (23:48):
Well, because I just worry it will traumatize people if
they don't have the right Like, my whole job is
to resolve trauma, not cause trauma, right.
Speaker 8 (23:56):
Absolutely, that's my goal number one, to do no harm.
Speaker 9 (24:01):
Yeah, I just want to make sure people are using
things in a way that is going to help them
and not hurt them.
Speaker 7 (24:09):
Yes, yes, I'll do believe well, I mean them not
being an ask for key. Can you safely find and
use the bathroom on psychedelics? I would have to say yes,
because from what I understand, your sense of awareness is
a little bit more heightened during this stage. But in
your opinion, Catherine, what do you say?
Speaker 9 (24:29):
It depends on the dosage again, Okay, Yeah, if you're
taking really large amounts, you may not be able to bathroom.
You might not have legs, we right, you might be crawling,
or you may just decide to just take care of
(24:49):
things where you are because moving around might be too weird.
But I can tell you that from when I'm working
with someone, I guide them to the re room safely
because I don't want them to have to worry about that.
And I make sure that they are not going to
like stumble and fall, and make sure that every time
(25:11):
they need to use the restroom they get there safely
and that they're able to do their business.
Speaker 8 (25:16):
So yes, Wow, great therapy. You're great. I gotta believe.
I gotta love it.
Speaker 7 (25:23):
All right, Well, in your opinion, how does psilocybin assist
the therapy or or psychedelics all as a whole?
Speaker 8 (25:32):
Wow, he is.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
He's having a good time.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
Yes, I love So how would they compare to other
types of therapy in your opinion?
Speaker 9 (25:46):
Meaning other psychedelic therapies.
Speaker 8 (25:48):
Are just regular Yeah, other regular type.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
Okay, well here's what I can tell you.
Speaker 9 (25:54):
So I have not found anything to be more effective
than psilocybin other than other psychedelics.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
There's no other modality.
Speaker 9 (26:07):
Yeah, I haven't found another modality, and not trust me.
I created my own modality. I actually created an emotional
trigger truth emotional triggers treatment which helps people resolve trauma,
and even psychedelics beats that by far so when used properly,
I would say that they don't compare other methods.
Speaker 8 (26:30):
That's the first time I've heard that. We're gonna go
on point with that.
Speaker 7 (26:33):
Okay, all right, number one, number one form of therapy
in the world.
Speaker 8 (26:38):
I love it.
Speaker 9 (26:39):
Yeah, in my opinion, now I will like it clear though,
that psilocybin is not for everybody. You might need MDMA
or LSD, or there's ayahuasca. There's other forms of psychedelics
based on what you're wanting to achieve. But yeah, I
would say if used correctly, safely, and properly, psychedelics are
(26:59):
literally like years of therapy in.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
A day, maybe decades of therapy in a day.
Speaker 7 (27:05):
Oh wow, Okay, you've got to be ready to go
through some stuff. I'm brought us out. Everybody key's staring me.
All need to do some discovery on my trauma.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
I was like, I've never been from.
Speaker 7 (27:17):
Traumatized or nothing like that, but we know, who knows,
maybe I blocked it out or you know.
Speaker 9 (27:23):
Well, I think we all have. We've all been traumatized.
It's whether we've been able to resolve our trauma or not.
Speaker 8 (27:28):
Right, Like, yeah, we all.
Speaker 9 (27:30):
Experience adversity and we all have like the experience in
our heart. It's doesn't get us stuck in life or
have we been able to process through it. I will
also say though, that I also do allow people to
come to me for self exploration, so they don't necessarily
have to have trauma. They might just be really interested
(27:51):
in finding out more about themselves and having maybe more
of a spiritual connection or relationship or things that aren't
necessarily trauma. And I've worked with those people too, because
they're wanting to get a deeper sense of purpose, meaning
(28:12):
maybe trying to figure out what's their next path in life.
They're wanting to be more creative. My focus is usually
trauma resolution, but I have had some people come to
me for just self exploration.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Absolutely, you got to use it for good too, can
can always be used for evil? All right, Well tell
me if we need to skip past this. I kind
of through this line of question in just to see
where we could go. You did share a little bit
about how this therapy helped you through your own traumas
and depressions, and you also have helped others with this
(28:48):
type of work. Do you have could you share any
stories or case studies that you've done with people that
could help maybe identify why we might need it.
Speaker 9 (29:00):
Yeah, well, interesting that you're asking that question, because I
am actually right now. I just finished filming for a
documentary on the work that I'm doing, because I want
people to see what it looks like from start to finish,
because I don't think there's anything out there right now
that shows, like I showed up with depression, this is
(29:21):
what we did, this is the treatment, and then now
I don't have depression right we haven't seen those stories,
and so I'm actually working on that right now because
I'm a believer in wanting to spread and educate how
this works.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Now.
Speaker 9 (29:37):
I think your question was how do you know which
psychedelic to use? I think that's what you were asking,
and I think that the answer to that is, like,
psilocybin is really good for like internal issues, So if
I need to work on something internal like my anxiety
(29:59):
or pression or PTSD, MDMA is really good for couples
and helping build empathy and understanding between couples. I believe
from my what I'm learning and what I've experienced, LSD
is really good for creatives for external stuff, so also
(30:21):
connecting with the world not the internal stuff right and
creating maybe art or music or something. I think ayahuasca
is going to be really really good for some deep, deep,
deep internal healing. And I think ayahuasca does both internal
and external. So there's a lot of different options. And
(30:45):
I think it also just depends on what you're trying
to seek. Like addiction tends to work better for with
EBA gain and maybe even I know it, ayahuasca not
so much because you have to be clean and sober
for a certain period of time. So it's going to
depend on the person. And also what do they have
(31:05):
access to, you know, where can you find somebody that
does aahuasca journeys versus somebody that does psilocybin. I think
psilocybin's easier to find right now because there's so many
studies being done on it.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
I think I asked your question. I'm not sure.
Speaker 8 (31:22):
Yeah, definitely broken down now.
Speaker 7 (31:25):
I got to follow up in today because I think
what I think the term that I've been more familiar
with is.
Speaker 8 (31:31):
Somewhere in one of those you mentioned. What about kenemine, oh, kenemy?
Speaker 9 (31:36):
Yeah, so ketamine could be really good for treatment resistant depression.
It can also be used for pain personally not a
huge fan of ketamine. I just think it's it's not
doesn't have the permanence that other psychedelics have. It does
help some people, but it doesn't always work forever, Like
(31:57):
it lasts for a year or two years and then
it stops, which.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
I think kind of leaves people feeling worse.
Speaker 7 (32:06):
Right, there's academy might be the big form a part
of the psychedelics ist.
Speaker 8 (32:11):
You like that, that's gonna be the part where they business.
They gonna make it business.
Speaker 9 (32:17):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I've worked with ketamine, Like, I've
actually had clients use ketamine and I've guided them through it.
What I don't like about ketamine personally is sometimes they
don't remember everything, and that bothers me a little because
I don't feel like you can really get the kind
of healing that you need if you don't remember the experience.
(32:40):
And like I said, it feels to me like a
fifty to fifty It works fifty percent of the time,
and I want something that's going to have a better
success rate than that. That's just my personal opinion on that,
But I think the reason why ketymine is so popular
and it's so much more widespread is because there's already
legal use is for kenmy.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
Right.
Speaker 10 (33:04):
Yeah, well we touched on not being able to make
it to the bathroom alone and some of the miss
things that might happen through misuses.
Speaker 8 (33:17):
Can you touch on some of maybe the.
Speaker 7 (33:22):
Concerns safety concerns around the psilocyber assistant therapy.
Speaker 8 (33:26):
And maybe whyse take us along to get this stuff approved.
Speaker 9 (33:31):
So I think the concerns are really stigma related, like
people don't really understand what it is. I think. So
here's what I know. Back when in the sixties, even
our government experimented on psilocybin with the military, and what
(33:51):
they found is when they gave psilocybin to people in
the military, they all wanted to put down their guns.
Oh that's kind of defeat. That doesn't match. Yeah, like
that's right, that doesn't And so there was this huge
hippie movement, right make you know, make love, not war,
the peace, the whole thing, and they were really worried.
(34:15):
The government was worried about how this was affecting the
masses because it was making them anti war, which is
why psilocybin got put on the you know, the list
at the last minute, literally at the last minute, psilocybon
was at it, and so psilocybin became an illegal substance
mostly because it caused you instead of inciting you to
(34:38):
be a better you know, shooter or whatever like so,
so there's a lot of stigma, mostly by the government
about that this is this drug is so awful.
Speaker 5 (34:54):
That we're trying to overcome.
Speaker 9 (34:56):
We're trying to change the narrative and be like, it's
actually not like that, unless unless you're using it at
high amounts, mixing it with other things and not being
responsible about it right, not using it in a good way.
So what do we have to be concerned about today?
(35:16):
There are some physical conditions that are not good for psilocybin,
like severe cardiovascular issues, epilepsy. There's certain medications that people
are on that can interfere, So I say, really, the
main thing about what do you need to be concerned
(35:36):
about is making sure that your provider or your practitioner
does an assessment to rule all of those health risks out.
And once that's done, then it's about making sure that
somebody is walking you through the experience from start to
finish and not just like not preparing you. There's also
(35:57):
integration afterwards. That's really really important. The journey itself is
just a download of data doesn't mean it'll all makes sense.
Sometimes you need affect most of the time, I'd say
maybe even all the time. You need to process through
that information through integration so that it actually becomes a
healing experience and not just this weird crazy thing there.
Speaker 8 (36:20):
There's some you went through it actually helped them.
Speaker 9 (36:22):
Yes, Yes, Like integration afterwards is key to making it
positive and to creating permanence around the healing. So it's
literally like, so here's one thing that we see a lot.
People go to Costa Rica or Jamaica and they're getting
(36:42):
these treatments, but there's no preparation around it. They just
show up and boom, they're doing it, and then there's
no integration afterwards, so they don't even know how to
make sense of it.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
That.
Speaker 9 (36:55):
Instead, what they do is they compartmentalize the experience and they.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
Just go back to what they were doing, which.
Speaker 9 (37:00):
Means they didn't actually integrate it and change as a result. Right,
And so what I want to what I'm a huge
advocate for is it's a whole process. It's not just
one day. It's like weeks it's the weeks leading up.
So with when I do this work, I require at
least three sessions beforehand where we're going to prepare you,
(37:22):
we're going to do the assessment. We're going to come
up with a list of intentions so that when you're
in it, I can feed you that list and you
work on your stuff instead of just chasing rabbits around
in your head. Right, like, No, let's actually get to
the meet and help you resolve that issue you have
with your mother, help you get over the sexual assault
(37:43):
trauma that you had, help you quit alcohol or smoking cigarettes,
free you of the depression and the anxiety, and then
the integration afterwards super key, super important in making sense
out of this crazy experience that gives you so much
information that sometimes you don't even know what it all
(38:03):
means yet because there's so much. I just think it's
really really important that people understand that when it's therapeutic,
it's a whole process.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
It's not just a day.
Speaker 8 (38:14):
M Wow, man, it's amazing. I'm hope, I hope, I
hope you all really.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
Getting something from this today, because it's just crazy amount
of information that comes out from this. And you're absolutely
right if you know, if you're beginning to work, you
might as well continue and see it all the way through.
Speaker 8 (38:32):
There's no point of because uh, in my eyes, that
will be doing more damage.
Speaker 7 (38:38):
You will be definitely like it's like cracking the egg
open without using that yolk for something.
Speaker 8 (38:45):
You gotta cook. You gotta scramble egg yolk or something
with it. You know what I'm saying. You can't just
crack the egg and leave the laying there.
Speaker 7 (38:50):
It's gonna go bad, and that's not helping anybody at all.
Speaker 5 (38:55):
Right, That's right.
Speaker 9 (38:56):
That's why it's important to when you if you if
you seek out this treatment, it's important that you're working
with somebody who understands. So there's there's underground therapists and
there's above ground therapist. I'm an above ground therapist. I've
got Psilocybin Assistant Therapy on my website. I'm located in
Las Cruces, New Mexico, and I don't hide it. I'm
(39:17):
like out there I'm doing this because I don't I'm
not doing it underground, and underground usually means people are
doing things bare minimum, doesn't necessarily mean they provide the
whole package. I actually won't do the treatment with you
if you haven't already scheduled your integrations, because it's an
entire package.
Speaker 7 (39:37):
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, and the key you can check
her website out it is I can't read, I can't
MARIPOSACOUNSELNK center dot com.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
Yes, yes center dot com.
Speaker 7 (39:53):
I well absolutely, I'll send that to you and I'll
make sure when we repost the.
Speaker 8 (39:56):
Apistol that will have her information to share.
Speaker 7 (39:59):
For everybody who it is interested in following up and
maybe begin some.
Speaker 8 (40:03):
Type of therapy for yourself.
Speaker 9 (40:05):
And one more thing i'd like to say real quick,
just because I think this leads into what you wanted
to also mention. One of the main things that I
get from people after doing this treatment is they suddenly are.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
Not interested in alcohol anymore. It's really weird.
Speaker 9 (40:23):
Even the people who come to me for things like
depression anxiety PTSD, they'll report to me afterwards. You know
what's weird is I'm not having that glass of wine
I used to have every night and I'm not interested anymore.
And I'm like, I didn't know you were drinking wine
every night. You never told me that, Like, well, I
didn't think it was a thing. And I'm like, well, Okay,
maybe it wasn't a thing, but it's really interesting how
(40:45):
psilocybin tends to give people an aversion to alcohol afterwards.
So people who are wanting to cut back, people that
are wanting to, like, you know, maybe figure out a
way to wean.
Speaker 5 (40:58):
Off of alcohol.
Speaker 9 (41:01):
Magic mushrooms, psilocybin, both microdosing and microdosing are very effective
for that.
Speaker 5 (41:06):
I just wanted to throw that at there because I
think it's important.
Speaker 8 (41:09):
People know there.
Speaker 7 (41:11):
You never know, I mean, I have to kind of
understand something changed about me recently. I haven't, like, I
hadn't had a drinking like two months, and I used
I think it's the schedule because I used to drink
on a schedule on Thurtay nights where I'm out doing
things with people, and I haven't.
Speaker 8 (41:29):
Done that in a couple of months. So I think
that might just be the one reason I haven't had
a drink.
Speaker 7 (41:32):
But I noticed about that about myself the other day. Also,
all right, last question for me, how do you see
the therapy being integrated with mainstream or the changes coming
up within like stay next five or ten years.
Speaker 9 (41:52):
You know, hopefully if insurance could get on board. I
think that's going to be pretty pivotal. So first we
have to change the loss.
Speaker 8 (41:59):
Right.
Speaker 9 (42:00):
We got to get all the states or the federal
government to reschedule psilocybin, because right now it is scheduled
as a drug worse than I think, worse than kevimine,
worse then even some of this over the counter stuff.
It's crazy. That's the first thing that needs to happen.
(42:21):
The second thing is maybe insurance getting on board to help,
because right now it's a pretty costly endeavor, especially in
Oregon and Colorado where the costs to become licensed are
so high that it's making it prohibitive.
Speaker 5 (42:37):
But I would like to see people.
Speaker 9 (42:39):
I would like to see medical staff be more supportive
because I think there's I can't tell you how many
doctors send patients to me who have all these symptoms
but everything's fine, and it turns out it's psychosomatic. And
it's amazing what a journey can heal. With respect to
(43:01):
healing your mind, heals your body, which then, as according
to the theme of your web of your podcast here,
also makes you more functional, which means that you're going
to be able to be more financially able to take
care of yourself and I think it's all important.
Speaker 7 (43:21):
Yeah, I need to proper sum or something that I
like money. But thank you, thank you, thank you for
sharing here. I just wanted to touch on I have
a quick clip here that kind of touches into the
assistance therapy with dealing with addictions.
Speaker 8 (43:38):
So just a couple of minute.
Speaker 7 (43:41):
Clips everybody will be right back for Yeah.
Speaker 11 (43:46):
It's kind of counterintuitive, isn't it that.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
The use of.
Speaker 11 (43:54):
A drug psilocybin to treat addiction. M H Like that's
one of the main reasons that it can be effective,
is that because of that what did you call it,
the brain the default mode network, fault mode network exactly. Basically,
when you're addicted to something, you're in the default mode
(44:17):
network and you're kind of stuck in it, and that
psilocybin opens that up to other possibilities.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
Do you have do you have a lot of evidence in.
Speaker 11 (44:28):
Your own treatment of patients that shows that the effectiveness
of that.
Speaker 8 (44:34):
Yeah? Yes.
Speaker 12 (44:35):
And the tricky thing is so addictive substances. So you
have addicted to substances and then you have addictive behaviors, correct, Yeah,
so you have addicted subs substances trigger the reward center.
Speaker 13 (44:49):
Then dopamine kick kick kick kick, right, So that's a
neuronopathy for sure.
Speaker 12 (44:55):
That's being fired.
Speaker 13 (44:56):
Oh I'm going to get that reward and then I
can relax, But then it's it's all over again. Then
you have addictive behaviors, which is similar in that you
have the neurono pathway that has an end result. So
psilocybin does not work on the dopamine side of things
at all. You're not doing the rewards and er that's
(45:19):
why psilocybin is non addicting because it's not triggering that
part of our brain. And so that part has gone
with psilocybin, and then this part has gone with psilocybin too,
because you're no longer firing that behavioral neuronal pathway. So
when we take both of those out of it, so
(45:41):
for example, addiction from alcohol is a little heavier on
the behavioral side than the dopamine side. So when you
take that out of it, it gives you a lens
of wait a minute, why am I doing this behavior?
And then it starts to focus on yeah, and that
(46:04):
when you understand why you're doing a behavior, it doesn't
mean that that behavior is instantly gone, but what it
does do is it begins to lay the foundation for
you to have more better understanding and perhaps strength to
overcome that behavior.
Speaker 7 (46:25):
Wow, that's how How true to the calling does that
sound to you?
Speaker 5 (46:34):
To me?
Speaker 9 (46:35):
Unfortunately, I couldn't hear any of it, so I'm not.
Speaker 7 (46:38):
Oh wow, we've got to work on all technical issues.
Speaker 8 (46:45):
It's all right. I'm sorry. I have to apologize to
you for not making sure that I was coming through it. Well.
Speaker 7 (46:52):
Well, basically, she was just saying that you know that
it's kind of funny that the drugs can help you
come up with the addictions and stuff, and then she
was just breaking down how the addictions, specifically with alcohol,
the parties that can come in and they recognize the
reasonings and understand the whys and why they do it,
(47:12):
and that begins the process to become.
Speaker 8 (47:17):
The addiction.
Speaker 9 (47:18):
The other thing is that psilocybin is not addictive, and
I think people don't know that psilocybin there is zero
so there is no lethal dose of psilocybin and all
that does not I'm not saying people should go and
just do a bunch of it because that's not I mean,
it can make you sick if you do way way
way too much. But there's also it's not addictive. If
(47:38):
you tried to do mushrooms every day for three days,
by the third day you wouldn't feel anything. It stops working,
So there is no addiction, which is why I say
it's scheduled wrang in the schedule one because schedule one
means there's no medical use, no no known medical use,
and that it's addictive, and psilocybin doesn't qualify. It's actually
(48:01):
not addictive. So that's what I think the misconception is
is people go, well, how can you use a psychedelic
give somebody a drug to stop being addicted to drugs?
And it's like, well, you have to have the right one.
You have to have the ones that are not addictive,
that actually help you heal and maybe even help you
understand why you're doing that other drug that is addictive
(48:25):
to help you stop the addiction.
Speaker 7 (48:28):
Makes sense because anything overused could be considered a drug.
Like me and my donuts in the morning, that's definitely
a drug of mine. I guess to have my donuts
and coffee yeh. Sugar, yes, And I'm not even a
big sugar guy. Like on a regular basis, you offer
(48:49):
me a piece of taken like now, that's too sweet.
Speaker 8 (48:50):
I don't want it.
Speaker 7 (48:51):
But in the morning, I gotta have my sugar in
my coffee and you got to have my donuts. That's
just getting my life started. Without bet it's not going
to work well for anybody around.
Speaker 9 (49:02):
And everyone knows it.
Speaker 8 (49:05):
Well, thank you for your information.
Speaker 7 (49:07):
Before we get out of here, everybody, I just got
some information. You know, we always got to touch on
the physical side of our health.
Speaker 8 (49:14):
And then we of course I got thrown.
Speaker 7 (49:17):
Since my background is in finance, I gotta throwing some
stuff about money. So bear with me today. I apologize again.
I'm doing a lot of apologizing today. I don't have
slides compared like.
Speaker 8 (49:27):
I usually do to show you all.
Speaker 7 (49:29):
So we're going to go through this information real quick
and hopefully we can pick up some stuff. So touching
on psilicybal assistant therapy workouts are emergent areas of interest
combining the mental health benefits of psilocybin and physical exercise.
While isn't While there isn't a lot of specific information
available yet, the general idea is used the enhnce mental
(49:52):
state induced by psilocybin to improve the effectiveness of physical workouts.
Speaker 8 (49:59):
So do you believe that?
Speaker 7 (50:01):
What would you think when it comes to using psilocybin
and other psychedelics with working.
Speaker 9 (50:08):
Out, Well, I think if you're microdosing, I think that
makes sense. Microdosing is taking such small amounts, you're not
really getting the psychedelic experience. It's more just makes you
have more energy, it makes you more focused. I think
microdosing makes sense. I think trying to work out when
you have like a macrodose is going to be really
(50:31):
hard because you become couchlocked. Your body literally doesn't want
to move much because all the work is going on
in your mind. But I can see definitely with microdosing,
I would say, yeah, it probably would. Like I use
I sometimes will microdose before yoga sessions and it really
helps me get into the yoga, like really into my
(50:53):
body and connection. So yeah, I say microdosing, yes, macrodosing
probably not some.
Speaker 7 (51:01):
Okay, So everything in moderation understoods that all right, that
she kind of touches on that, and it backs up
with this potential benefits and enhanced mind body connection, hence
yoga increased motivation. The positive mental effects of psilocybin might
boost motivation. Motivation and enjoyment during exercise. And last they
(51:27):
have stretch reductions, but consideration safety first. Always ensure a
safe environment and have a sober guide or therapist present
during the session. So make sure if you do try
some psychedelics assisted workouts that you got somebody there to.
Speaker 8 (51:44):
Watch it back. You don't want to chuck yourself on
the ball belt. That'd be horrible. Don't clout like that, please, no.
Speaker 5 (51:51):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 7 (51:54):
Lastly, we have some investments to talk about. Investing in psilocybinus.
The therapy is gaining traction as the potential for these
therapists and to treat mental health disorders becoming more widely recognized.
Here's some six key points, and this is very good point.
I like this here. Why invest the silicibal assistant therapy.
There's the growing market. The global psychedelic drugs market is
(52:17):
expected to reach nine point eight billion by twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 8 (52:22):
That's amazing.
Speaker 7 (52:23):
There's no way the insurance company will be ignoring anything.
There's no way the government will be annoying any industry
just bringing in a nine point eight billion They're going
to have to find a way to either regulate it
or should it down or you know we're going to
go further other ground or whatnot. So how do you
feel about you? Do you think that that's an accurate number?
Nine point eight billion?
Speaker 8 (52:44):
That's that's the large numbers I actually do.
Speaker 9 (52:47):
And the reason, unfortunately, is because if they're following close
to the cannabis model, corporate corporations are what are trying
to get their hands in early like what's happening in
Oregon and Colorado. But I will say that I'm actually
a little opposed to the corporate world taking over because
(53:08):
it takes away the individualness of this experience. Like I
believe that trying to take a person and fit them
into a corporate cookie cutter method is not going to
be as valuable as me catering to the individual and
their culture, not just not just like you know, like
(53:31):
if I'm trying to make somebody fit into the corporate method,
that would mean, Okay, you have to listen to this music,
you have to be in a room with thirty other people,
you have to do it in a certain way where
some people are like no, I want to be in nature,
or I want to be listening to this particular type
of music, or I want you know, I want to
deal with. I want to go back and focus on
(53:53):
my ancestors, right, and I want to have like maybe
my ceremonial cultural ceremony stuff with me. I don't want
to have to do this in a corporate way. I
think it's going to be much more valuable if we
can keep it to the you know, to where people
can get exactly what they need the way they need it. So, yes,
(54:14):
those numbers sound right. I'm not liking that direction because
I think that when you try to put everybody into
a certain model, people get left out or they end
up end up hurting them and not helping them. So
we'll see, we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 7 (54:32):
But we will have to rely on specialists like yourself
that can do the proper direction against the government machine.
So I'll say, well, Greg that we have you and
other resources to reach out to, so y'all pay attention
to those. But that's again, nine point eight billion, that's
not a number to stutter at. If that's coming out,
(54:55):
they're definitely going to be coming up with some legal
regulatory things on this.
Speaker 8 (55:01):
Let's see here.
Speaker 7 (55:02):
Market market volatility as an emergency industry, psychedelic market can
be volatile and subject to rapid changes.
Speaker 8 (55:08):
I put that in with them there. Anything when it comes.
Speaker 7 (55:11):
Investing outside of land and real estate is going to
be a volatile market. And real estate is really a
volatile market itself if you pay attention to two it
too certain segments.
Speaker 8 (55:22):
Let's see last on investing here.
Speaker 7 (55:25):
We do have some publicly traded companies, so if you
are interested, I'm a heavy believer of stocks. Always consulcial
local financial professional before putting money into stocks. But there
are several publicly traded companies involved in development and distribution
of psychedelic therapies. Examples are Act Your Life Sciences, Come
(55:47):
Past Pathways and filled Trip Health look like they got
that name down field Trip Health.
Speaker 8 (55:53):
When it comes to psychedelic therapy. So those are a
few stocks there. We have some research and development.
Speaker 7 (55:59):
Investment in companies focused on the research and development of
psychedelic medicines can be a promising avenue. Always the resets
and developments, and in any industry itself, when you come
to looking at stocks like for example, Coca Cola, I say,
always look at the backups of those companies. Because Coca
Cola they have to buy their bottles from a company,
(56:21):
so that company is going to always sell bottles Coca Cola.
They have to buy their packaging from somebody. Their company's
always going to be selling packaging. They have to buy
their water and flavor from somebody, so they're always going
to have You got to always look at the backup
companies from not just the front line. So keep that
in mind when it comes to investment. Also, those could
be some trips to you know what I'm saying, get
around supporting technologies companies developing technologies and tools to support
(56:45):
the administration of psychedelic assistant therapies. Also present and investment
that's never thinking about that. You got some apps that
might be coming out. Tell you how to go through it, Catherine,
you might be releasing the app, So there's another way
to invest. You know, it's all over the place. Gotta
love it, gotta love it.
Speaker 8 (57:04):
Ethical considerations. Investors should consider the ethical.
Speaker 7 (57:08):
Implications of investing the subsistence that alter consciousness.
Speaker 8 (57:12):
ABB blue whatever, whatever, whatever.
Speaker 7 (57:14):
We buy weed stocks every day and we smoke weed
just the same, so know that.
Speaker 8 (57:18):
Out to the side and resources.
Speaker 7 (57:21):
For more detailed information, you might want to check our
resources like edge Investment Guide and the list of publicly
traded psychedelic companies.
Speaker 8 (57:30):
So there you go.
Speaker 7 (57:31):
For anybody who's interested in investment, just a little bit
of information might help you get started again, do your
own research, and always, always, always consult with your personal financial.
Speaker 8 (57:43):
Profession before you take any move. But Cappin, do you
have you other than the company itself?
Speaker 7 (57:50):
Have you participated in any type of investments or startups
when it comes to Stilocyber and assistant Therapy.
Speaker 9 (57:58):
No, just the documentary that I'm making, and I'm also
going to be writing a book or two, so okay,
that's those are the ventures I'm taking to try to
help back up my you know, just my financial self
and hoping that you know, they lead to something we'll see.
But you know, I like your idea of an app.
I think that that actually isn't a bad one. I
(58:21):
thought of also maybe publishing a workbook around assistant therapy.
But I also do trainings, so if you remember, I do,
I do retreats, I do trainings. So I'm also, like,
you know, trying to find other ways to be able
to do the work I enjoy and also build myself,
(58:42):
you know, a good yeah, just so that I can
take care of myself.
Speaker 7 (58:47):
Right, absolutely, being paid to do the work that you
love to do is an amazing feeling.
Speaker 8 (58:53):
I agree, just got to love it, so I wish
you all the best with that. Absolutely, please share.
Speaker 7 (59:00):
I will give share information for her website, so anybody
looking to contact Catherine can reach out to her and
please stare the upcoming documentary information in your books that
you have coming up. I'm just gonna put this out
there because anybody, I'm trying anybody. Anytime somebody mentions writing
a book, I love getting autographs from authors.
Speaker 8 (59:24):
I'm just gonna put that out there.
Speaker 7 (59:26):
When I bought a book, you know, not a requirement.
Speaker 8 (59:30):
Hint, hint, I just love it.
Speaker 7 (59:32):
But please keep us posted with anything you got coming up.
We'll be happy to share that. Hopefully we'll get to
have another discussion maybe on the same topic or other topics.
We do have one of the guests that kicked off
the Psychedelic Assistant Therapy episode series. She came up with
(59:55):
the idea of having a panel discussion of all the
experts coming together. So I will definitely send that invite
out to you see if you can make that happen
as well.
Speaker 8 (01:00:04):
But thank you, thank you. It was yes, oh yeah,
so it's already okay. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 7 (01:00:12):
I love it. So yes, yes, Melissa, so okay down, yes,
all right, we got it. We got to record it,
can't back out now.
Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
We got it.
Speaker 8 (01:00:27):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (01:00:27):
Thank you everybody for tuning in. Hope y'all learned something
because I always do.
Speaker 8 (01:00:32):
I love it. I can't get enough of it.
Speaker 7 (01:00:35):
Thank you Catherine for coming and joining us today and
sharing the information. I can't thank you enough. And again,
well wish is what everything got going? And keep us posted?
All right, love y'all. Oh, let me get my intro out.
I got to struggled with this one more time. So
thank you for listening to Mental Health and Wealth, the
podcast where we explore the connection between mental well being
(01:00:55):
and the financial success.
Speaker 8 (01:00:56):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learn something new.
Speaker 7 (01:00:59):
If you have any question, since comments, or feedback, feel
free to email us at the Playground TV at outlook
dot com.
Speaker 8 (01:01:05):
He've a review. We would love to hear from you
and appreciate yourupport.
Speaker 7 (01:01:08):
Remember you are not alone in your journey and your
mental health is your greatest asset. Until next time, stay healthy,
stay wealthy, stay tuned.
Speaker 8 (01:01:16):
The y'all, laid on. I dedicate this.
Speaker 6 (01:01:23):
Song's assion depression.
Speaker 14 (01:01:30):
The sunshine, and it started in my heart and it
feels like a cold nights.
Speaker 6 (01:01:54):
The joy that you promised me. Tell me so right,
probably be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Mostly can't explay.
Speaker 14 (01:02:07):
Fell from head like the shower.
Speaker 8 (01:02:10):
When I think I must better.
Speaker 6 (01:02:11):
I'm gonna beleeve when this is over.
Speaker 14 (01:02:15):
Either though I see I starts like a.
Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Eola.
Speaker 9 (01:02:24):
What you do?
Speaker 14 (01:02:25):
I start?
Speaker 8 (01:02:26):
Come on? So I'm for.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Getting down, shall hate to sing.
Speaker 15 (01:02:33):
Again down God's people so much like this sid so side.
Every day gonna be fucking but excuse for me today
don't have to cost day?
Speaker 9 (01:02:49):
But there is no sun shine.
Speaker 14 (01:02:53):
Ut them a crown and it start in the hard
and it feels like a cold night.
Speaker 6 (01:02:58):
It ain't easy, but today's.
Speaker 9 (01:03:02):
Tell me where.
Speaker 8 (01:03:05):
Where is that jo?
Speaker 14 (01:03:06):
It was a jo?
Speaker 5 (01:03:08):
Frowns me?
Speaker 14 (01:03:09):
Tell me all right? The most power can't exclam.
Speaker 15 (01:03:19):
It goes with.
Speaker 14 (01:03:20):
Y'all from the shower.
Speaker 8 (01:03:24):
I know we her child, but still.
Speaker 15 (01:03:28):
Come home even though I see you start you feel
that is what can so up, even though I'm.
Speaker 6 (01:03:37):
Still stop.
Speaker 14 (01:03:43):
Down.
Speaker 13 (01:03:45):
Should hate to say again down.
Speaker 8 (01:03:47):
Because people kill us so much.
Speaker 6 (01:03:53):
Less. Who can't you just smile? Whatever you're in right now, smile.
(01:04:13):
You just smile, and the people say.
Speaker 14 (01:04:24):
You understand.
Speaker 15 (01:04:29):
I say, you know it's understanding when and while you're waiting.
Understand jail and why you praying. Look in the mirror,
always remember the.
Speaker 6 (01:04:47):
Husky almost.
Speaker 8 (01:04:52):
Goes power.
Speaker 6 (01:04:53):
You hang out for herdships, difficulties.
Speaker 7 (01:05:00):
Yere's his door.
Speaker 16 (01:05:02):
This is what I do.
Speaker 6 (01:05:07):
Whatever is good, all things are working. Still, stop.
Speaker 14 (01:05:18):
Yourself.
Speaker 8 (01:05:20):
I know it's hard right now.
Speaker 6 (01:05:24):
Because you're winning.
Speaker 16 (01:05:26):
Stand Look Betters, Jealous, New Orleans, Cleveland understand, Detroit is understand.
Speaker 8 (01:05:42):
He feelers.
Speaker 14 (01:05:47):
Jersey and.
Speaker 15 (01:05:53):
All the people says, I just don't you to be
happy just then?
Speaker 7 (01:06:01):
You gotta have something happened there.
Speaker 6 (01:06:03):
I want you to have joy, because hen't nobody take
that coming you.
Speaker 8 (01:06:08):
I'll see you smile
Good morning, good to see you both. The group behind
this says it has its work cut out for it
because it's going to require one million signatures to get
this initiative on the ballot. But according to researchers, the
preliminary clinical trials are showing absolutely astounding results.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
This is very personal for you.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I served thirty one years of my life part of
my job as a seal. I was over in Iraq
and Afghanistan multiple times. I definitely had traumatic events.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Former Navy Seal Guy McDermott left the military and joined
Glendale Fire as a firefighter paramedic, thinking he could evade
his trauma.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
That was on a critical call and it was a child,
the same agent as my son, and for the first
time in my life, I froze and it almost killed me.
Because after that I went in a spiral and it
got to a point where I wanted to end my
own life.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
McDermott says therapy paired with psychedelics saved him.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I was seeing a lot of my friends go down,
leave the country and do these very powerful psychedelics, and
they were coming back with this new profound sense of life.
I went down to experience it myself. And my life
couldn't be any better than it is now.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
That's why he believes a new initiative to research psychedelic
assistant therapy would be groundbreaking for those who suffer like
he did. What is treat California?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
So it's the people of California coming together and demanding
that our state government create a funding agency to fund
research on psychedelic assistant therapy, to train therapists, and then
making it accessible to all citizens of California.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Doctor Jeanie Fontana, who's renowned for her work in advancing
stem cell research to fight diseases like als, is spearheading
Treat California.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
We have this mental health crisis in our country, particularly
in our state.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
While the National Institute of Health says traditional antidepressants only
work for thirty percent of patients long term, the clinical
trials for psychedelic therapy are showing promising results. What is
research telling you so far?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
After just three administrations taking MDMA three times in the
container in the context of therapy, eighty percent of them
had significant decrease in symptoms, and a year later, sixty
seven percent no longer qualified for PTSD.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Psychedelic therapist doctor Nick Bruce says similar results were seen
with a study out of Johns Hopkins for psilocybin, the
active ingredient in magic mushrooms. What difference have you seen
in your patients.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I've seen people get their lives back. Psychedelics create an
environment in the brain that help us approach rather than
avoid the information that needs to be processed.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Critics say more research is needed, and doctors warn people
with certain conditions like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder should steer clear,
but for other mental health challenges. A growing list of
health experts, including former emergency room doctor Sarah Betty, are
getting behind Treat California. As an er doctor, what I
would see frequently coming into my emergency room where a
(02:59):
lot of chronic health conditions, and it sometimes felt.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Like a revolving door.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
Why would we not want to.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Offer them access to these incredible medicines when we know
the preliminary results are showing such promise. She hopes California
voters will.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Agree it really allow me to get my life back.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Christina Pascucci Fox a lot of news, So advocates behind
Treat California are going to have six months to collect
a million signatures. That's no easy task if they're able
to do that. As we go on the ballot and
it'll be up to Californias to cast their vote. If
you want more information, you can go to treat California
dot org. I'll send it back to you.
Speaker 7 (03:42):
Welcome the mental health as well the podcast where we
explore the connection between your mind and your money. Today
we help you achieve mental wellness and financial freedom.
Speaker 8 (03:52):
In this podcast, we'll talk about topics that says stress management, budgeting, investment,
self care, and more.
Speaker 7 (04:00):
Also, hear from experts and guests who will show their
insights and expertise on how they cope with the challenges
of life and money. Rather you're struggling with anxiety, depression, debt,
or anything in between, this is the.
Speaker 8 (04:10):
Podcast for you. Join me every week.
Speaker 7 (04:13):
As we learn how to take care of our mental
health and grow our wealth.
Speaker 8 (04:17):
Remember mental health is well. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 7 (04:24):
Today Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, everybody. We have a great show
lined up for you. Today we're digging deeper into this
philocybin MDMA assisted therapy, psychedelics for whatever you want to
call it. Man, we're gonna get some more information. We've
been getting some great, great information from our experts. We
(04:47):
talked about just the general overall therapy part. Last week
we touched on how psilocybin and psychedelics can help with
can help with autism and people overcoming those type of
challenges and depression.
Speaker 8 (05:03):
Is just great, great, great.
Speaker 7 (05:04):
But today we have Catherine or not in today and
she I'm sure she has a bunch of those letters
after her name. I'm going to let her explain what
that means. But thank you for joining us today, Catherine,
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 8 (05:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (05:23):
So I am a licensed professional counselor un licensed in
New Mexico, Texas.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Colorado, and Washington. Wow.
Speaker 9 (05:32):
Yeah, what's interesting though about that when you said I
have all these things behind my name. Once you start
working with psychedelics, those things don't really mean much anymore.
Speaker 8 (05:45):
Got hurt.
Speaker 9 (05:48):
You know, they're there because they get your foot in
the door. But really, when you start working and maybe
even developing a relationship with certain medicines, start to learn
that those things are just boxes that you check, They're
just things that you accomplish, but they don't really represent
(06:08):
the work that we do.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
It's deeper than that. It's it's.
Speaker 9 (06:14):
Broader than just the labels. So I'm just really happy
to be here today.
Speaker 8 (06:20):
Wow. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 7 (06:22):
So I definitely understand that sentiment that is brother than
the labels, because, for one, this seems to be untarted
territory to some and new a lot of new, groundbreaking stuff,
so past studies may not definitely necessarily tied to the
school side of the training that we're touching all of that, right, So,
(06:48):
can you share a bit about your background? What got
you interested with psilocybin assistant therapy.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Sure.
Speaker 9 (06:55):
So I'm an older lady. I'm actually fifty six years old.
So I've actually had two careers. My first career, I
was actually a forensic scientist. I did DNA analysis and
crime scene or Yeah, so I have a science background,
and then I decided I really wanted to follow my passion,
which was counseling, and so I went back to school
(07:19):
to do that. So I went from a black and
white science to a gray science. And one of the
things that I have a lot of passion for is
helping people resolve trauma. I'm a huge believer that depression, anxiety, PTSD, anger, guilt,
and shame, all of these really kind of come from
(07:40):
past traumas that we haven't resolved, and I really dove
in I have a lot of trauma in my past,
and I think when you're going when you're a counselor
in training, you're really forced to kind of face a
lot of your past. And what I started to learn
was that I wanted to help people resolve their traumas.
Want people to have joy. I don't want people feeling stuck.
(08:03):
I want people to be free of depression and anxiety
and anger and guilt and shame. And I actually personally
went through a pretty extensive I went through some health issues.
I've I had both hipsmart both of my hips were placed,
and I had to battle cancer and all of those
(08:24):
pretty much led me to start looking at these studies
that were being done to help people that were dying
of cancer live good, abundant lives in their final years.
I thought, how is that possible? You know, there's anger,
there's guilt, there's shame, and psychedelics. The research they were
(08:44):
starting to do research and on a science galp from
my first careers and I just started reading about this
and I thought, Ah, there's something to this, Like I
have been working so hard to help people resolve trauma.
But there suddenly I was finding there was this new
way way.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
Of doing things that makes.
Speaker 9 (09:01):
It faster, and it's more profound, and it tends to
be a lot more successful.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
So I started working with that. And just to give you.
Speaker 9 (09:12):
A little bit more about my personal story, I actually
had severe depression that I was taking medications for big
pharma pharmaceuticals for thirty years, and I thought I was
going to be on them for the rest of my life.
And I was okay with that because it managed my depression.
It allowed me to be functional.
Speaker 8 (09:31):
It helped you cope with the moment.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
It did.
Speaker 9 (09:35):
It did. Unfortunately, now I can see that it numbed
me and it actually took a lot of It took
my lows away, but.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
It took my highs away too.
Speaker 9 (09:44):
It actually put me kind of more in this like
just yeah, just like a medium zone where I could function.
But was I living? Right, That's the question I asked myself. Now,
was I really living? I was existing, I was functioning,
I was give it done. But then when I started,
(10:06):
you know, experiencing psilocybin myself, because I wasn't going to
work with clients if I hadn't experienced it so that
I know what this is. I was able to actually
get off my pharmaceuticals and I've been free of them
for about I guess it's been a year and a half.
Two oh, no, two years now. I've been free of
pharmaceuticals and I don't have depression. I also don't have
(10:29):
anger or anxiety. I don't have guilt and shame. And
being free of those things and being able to now
have like normal feelings, normal highs, normal lows, It's kind
of opened up a whole new world for me, and
I'm like, Wow, I want all the people to know
(10:50):
and be able to have a new experience of what
living really is.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
It's not just numbing.
Speaker 7 (10:56):
Ah okay, the enlightening parts though, where it opens up
the mind and the expanding parts.
Speaker 8 (11:05):
Well, someone told me.
Speaker 7 (11:09):
They explained to me being off rooms of like a
constant expansion of colors in their heads.
Speaker 9 (11:15):
That's definitely. Colors is one thing I would say. It's
an expansion of everything. Colors is the probably the most
the first one that you notice. But it's also an
expansion of your emotions, an expansion of your self, understanding
of self, love, of feeling connected to the world. But
(11:39):
for me, I would say what really helped me the
most was resolving on my trauma. I thought that I
had depression that was hereditary. Now I know it wasn't hereditary.
It was trauma based. And once I resolved the trauma,
the depression went away. And it was modeling too. Can't
(12:00):
say it wasn't. My parents had depression, so I grew
up around what it looks like being depressed. So you
learn how to function in a depressing the world, right,
the modeling. But now I know that I don't have
hereditary depression because I don't have depression anymore.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
So I just resolved my trauma. Wo.
Speaker 7 (12:22):
So you mentioned about coming from the the criminal investigation
background to the counseling side, and then you talk about
the trauma of healing. What did you feel like it
was some of the work that you were doing with
that career also that led to it or was it
really about you discovering more about yourself that led you
(12:44):
to this.
Speaker 9 (12:45):
Yeah, the trauma was more childhood stuff that I experienced.
You know, I had a lot of alcoholism, a lot
of you know, depression in my family, which meant there
was a lot of neglect there. I can't say though,
that the crime scene stuff didn't add to the mix,
(13:08):
because it definitely did. We call that vicarious trauma, where
you're becoming traumatized.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
From, you know, the experience.
Speaker 9 (13:18):
Like I didn't, the trauma wasn't about me. But you know,
when you walk into a crime scene where people's you know,
they've been shot up, there's a there's a lot of blood,
it's very gory, it's it's pretty visually, can be pretty traumatic.
I would say all of that didn't help and added
to the mix. Especially I'm not trying to knock it
(13:41):
too much, but law enforcement, especially at the time, didn't
believe in mental health. They don't believe in getting any
seating treatment or therapy. They just believed in stuffing and
move on. I think that's starting to change, but there
really wasn't much in the way of support around mental
(14:02):
health in the forensic world. And that's a big part
of why I left it is because I couldn't. I
couldn't function fully in that world where they were literally
like shutting out a whole part of yourself, Like our
emotions are half of who we are, and to shut
that down and just ignore it isn't really gonna be
(14:25):
very healthy in the long run.
Speaker 8 (14:28):
That's true.
Speaker 7 (14:29):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's we got to get into that again.
That's a thank you for bringing that topic up. We
got to discover the policees, the police enforcements approach to
mental health. We had an incident today in Saint Louis
where a young man was walking down the street shooting.
Speaker 8 (14:47):
A gun in the air.
Speaker 7 (14:49):
And actually, unfortunately I've heard updates that someone lost their
life that was in the car driving by, but the
police ended up having to taken down by force, and
you know, unfortunately losses live. But there's no way like
it's like for one, different types of mental health and
(15:11):
then different levels of people being.
Speaker 8 (15:15):
Crazy, because that's what I mean. We can't call it
anything else.
Speaker 7 (15:20):
That's a crazy situation, unfortunate and very crazy what happened today.
So God blessed to the people in Saint Louis that
experienced that trauma today, and I hope you continue to
find the.
Speaker 8 (15:30):
Help that you need because it's very well needed.
Speaker 7 (15:33):
Well but back to you, Catherris, what can you compare
the training when it comes from even with the background,
from the DNA side to the counseling portion of it.
Now with the psilocybin assistant therapy, Can you talk about
the type of training and qualifications one might need to
understand this information.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
Sure.
Speaker 9 (15:56):
So one of the things I'll tell you is, because
psychedelics is still new, very new, it's in the infancy stages,
there isn't a lot of training options yet. There are some.
They are usually about a year long program. But I
ended up going up to Canada to get trained because
(16:16):
I felt that in Canada they're not only they're not
not only are were they using the research trial models,
they're also like helping people get the services that they need.
And their program was much more succinct and it's not
like a year long. So right now there are some
(16:37):
universities that have the programs. I actually offer a training
to healing practitioners. It's a short training because here's the thing.
People are going to do this work with or without
the training. They're gonna right now. It's happening, right, it's happening.
So I actually offer a two day training that helps
(16:58):
people learn how to do this, learned how to have
positive outcomes, because I know people aren't going to put
out ten thousand dollars to get trained at a university
for a year, because even I don't want to pay
ten thousand dollars for that, I'm trying to offer something
that's going to give people some education because there aren't
(17:19):
a lot of.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
People that are offering training right now.
Speaker 7 (17:24):
So yeah, well, thank you for doing your part because
I mean, servicing any need in the community and the industry.
Speaker 8 (17:33):
Definitely, we can appreciate that.
Speaker 7 (17:35):
We had a question pop in I want to touch
on from Key Baker. Can psychedelics make you see things
that aren't there?
Speaker 8 (17:43):
So we're talking about that.
Speaker 7 (17:44):
We do definitely want to associate the benefits and the
risk of this, so you have to answer for on that.
Speaker 9 (17:50):
Yes, So I think you know you're really you're referring
to hallucinations, and yes, that is something that can happen,
and it largely depends on the amount that you're taking.
And here's what's weird is that when you're on psilocybin
(18:10):
in a safe way with support, you know, and you're
using it therapeutically, you may see things but they don't
feel scary. I know that sounds really strange, But when
ego goes offline, because that's the whole point we're getting
ego offline. Like for example, I recently had a journey
(18:32):
where my grandmother, who died when I was I guess
I was probably like twenty five years old. She appeared
to me and I had a whole conversation with her.
I know she wasn't there, but yes, I saw my grandmother.
I've had people say they see their pets that are past.
I've had people report that they were visited by an
(18:54):
alien who had valuable information to share with them. So yes, there,
you are going to see things that aren't there. What's
important though about the work that I do is we
offer a therapeutic experience where you are safe. You have
people guiding you to help keep you from, you know,
(19:15):
getting scared and freaking out around these things. Our job
is to remind you you took a powerful medicine. You're
going to experience and see things that you wouldn't normally
experience and see. And it's temporary, and we're not going
to let you run into the street. We've got you like,
we're protecting you, We're keeping you safe.
Speaker 8 (19:37):
It's okay to cry, key, it's okay to cry.
Speaker 9 (19:41):
There's a lot of crying. Actually, it's very emotional it's
very I've had some people who tell me they come
to this and they go, you know.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
I never cry. I never cry.
Speaker 9 (19:56):
I'm like, okay, well, mushrooms they tend to bring your
emotionality out. And literally, i'd say, half an hour in
to her experience, she was crying and I was telling her,
you know, so, how does it feel to cry? And
she goes, it's weird, but the mushrooms are telling me
I have to cry for my whole life because I've
(20:18):
never cried. And she did, and she left feeling so
much lighter and so much better. There is a lot
of emotions, that's for sure, and it and it does
make you cry. I mean yes, when I saw my grandmother,
I was crying.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
Because I couldn't.
Speaker 9 (20:35):
I was so happy to see her. It was beautiful
and it was awesome.
Speaker 7 (20:40):
So well, that's great that I'm hearing a lot of
similarities from the from the this world and the people
that I've been talking to that you definitely want to
be in an environment around someone who can help you
through the process.
Speaker 8 (20:58):
You definitely want.
Speaker 7 (20:59):
To make sure that you're in a like quiet environment.
It sounded like like when I was going through self hypnosis,
you can't have anything to distract you or set you
off in a moment, So you had to have to
protect your space when you're definitely dealing with psychedelic assisted therapy.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
Yes, well, and one thing I'll say about that, because
I want to make sure that this is really really
important and clear. When people use psychedelics recreationally, they're not
taking into account the set in the setting.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
So let me give you an example.
Speaker 9 (21:36):
If I'm hanging out with my buddies and we're around
a campfire and we're like, let's all do some mushrooms,
and we start doing mushrooms and then I didn't know this,
but the guy sitting next to me invited his frat
boys to come join us, and it turns out one
of them assaulted me two years ago. I'm probably going
to have a pretty bad experience.
Speaker 8 (21:57):
Right, Yeah, I was ready for that.
Speaker 9 (21:59):
Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 8 (22:02):
Yeah, we're bringing out right, the same.
Speaker 9 (22:05):
Thing goes for like if you go to a rave
and you've taken these drugs and now people are you know,
they're pushing into you, which is what a rave is,
and now you're reliving a sexual assault experience you had.
That's not going to be a good experience.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
Yeah, you're going to definitely be against the therapy part
of it altogether.
Speaker 9 (22:25):
Exactly, and then it can traumatize you, which is why
I'm a huge advocate for the therapeutic use. Now, I'm
not going to knock recreational because I think if you
do it safely, it can still be okay. But most
people don't understand what safely means and they don't do
the proper setup to make sure.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
That it's going to be a good experience.
Speaker 9 (22:48):
So I just want to make it really clear that
there's a distinction between recreational and therapeutic. And I've even
had people who have used it recreationally come for the
therapy and they tell me it's a.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Whole another level.
Speaker 9 (23:02):
It's not it's not your like your recreational unlocks so much,
but when you do it therapeutic, it unlocks it at.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
A whole new level. It's a different experience.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
Yeah, you got control, more control and direction, and I
understand you have again from the hypnosis world, you have
what they call instructions.
Speaker 8 (23:25):
Or thing prompts that help you through.
Speaker 7 (23:28):
So yeah, you're definitely discovering things and kind of that's
the basis. You're there in therapy to work through something.
So you're going to be digging stuff up. You can't,
you can't. You got to be there to dig stuff up.
Speaker 8 (23:42):
So go with it. Just go with it, that's all
I say. But do it responsibly of course, yes.
Speaker 9 (23:48):
Well, because I just worry it will traumatize people if
they don't have the right Like, my whole job is
to resolve trauma, not cause trauma, right.
Speaker 8 (23:56):
Absolutely, that's my goal number one, to do no harm.
Speaker 9 (24:01):
Yeah, I just want to make sure people are using
things in a way that is going to help them
and not hurt them.
Speaker 7 (24:09):
Yes, yes, I'll do believe well, I mean them not
being an ask for key. Can you safely find and
use the bathroom on psychedelics? I would have to say yes,
because from what I understand, your sense of awareness is
a little bit more heightened during this stage. But in
your opinion, Catherine, what do you say?
Speaker 9 (24:29):
It depends on the dosage again, Okay, Yeah, if you're
taking really large amounts, you may not be able to bathroom.
You might not have legs, we right, you might be crawling,
or you may just decide to just take care of
(24:49):
things where you are because moving around might be too weird.
But I can tell you that from when I'm working
with someone, I guide them to the re room safely
because I don't want them to have to worry about that.
And I make sure that they are not going to
like stumble and fall, and make sure that every time
(25:11):
they need to use the restroom they get there safely
and that they're able to do their business.
Speaker 8 (25:16):
So yes, Wow, great therapy. You're great. I gotta believe.
I gotta love it.
Speaker 7 (25:23):
All right, Well, in your opinion, how does psilocybin assist
the therapy or or psychedelics all as a whole?
Speaker 8 (25:32):
Wow, he is.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
He's having a good time.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
Yes, I love So how would they compare to other
types of therapy in your opinion?
Speaker 9 (25:46):
Meaning other psychedelic therapies.
Speaker 8 (25:48):
Are just regular Yeah, other regular type.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
Okay, well here's what I can tell you.
Speaker 9 (25:54):
So I have not found anything to be more effective
than psilocybin other than other psychedelics.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
There's no other modality.
Speaker 9 (26:07):
Yeah, I haven't found another modality, and not trust me.
I created my own modality. I actually created an emotional
trigger truth emotional triggers treatment which helps people resolve trauma,
and even psychedelics beats that by far so when used properly,
I would say that they don't compare other methods.
Speaker 8 (26:30):
That's the first time I've heard that. We're gonna go
on point with that.
Speaker 7 (26:33):
Okay, all right, number one, number one form of therapy
in the world.
Speaker 8 (26:38):
I love it.
Speaker 9 (26:39):
Yeah, in my opinion, now I will like it clear though,
that psilocybin is not for everybody. You might need MDMA
or LSD, or there's ayahuasca. There's other forms of psychedelics
based on what you're wanting to achieve. But yeah, I
would say if used correctly, safely, and properly, psychedelics are
(26:59):
literally like years of therapy in.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
A day, maybe decades of therapy in a day.
Speaker 7 (27:05):
Oh wow, Okay, you've got to be ready to go
through some stuff. I'm brought us out. Everybody key's staring me.
All need to do some discovery on my trauma.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
I was like, I've never been from.
Speaker 7 (27:17):
Traumatized or nothing like that, but we know, who knows,
maybe I blocked it out or you know.
Speaker 9 (27:23):
Well, I think we all have. We've all been traumatized.
It's whether we've been able to resolve our trauma or not.
Speaker 8 (27:28):
Right, Like, yeah, we all.
Speaker 9 (27:30):
Experience adversity and we all have like the experience in
our heart. It's doesn't get us stuck in life or
have we been able to process through it. I will
also say though, that I also do allow people to
come to me for self exploration, so they don't necessarily
have to have trauma. They might just be really interested
(27:51):
in finding out more about themselves and having maybe more
of a spiritual connection or relationship or things that aren't
necessarily trauma. And I've worked with those people too, because
they're wanting to get a deeper sense of purpose, meaning
(28:12):
maybe trying to figure out what's their next path in life.
They're wanting to be more creative. My focus is usually
trauma resolution, but I have had some people come to
me for just self exploration.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Absolutely, you got to use it for good too, can
can always be used for evil? All right, Well tell
me if we need to skip past this. I kind
of through this line of question in just to see
where we could go. You did share a little bit
about how this therapy helped you through your own traumas
and depressions, and you also have helped others with this
(28:48):
type of work. Do you have could you share any
stories or case studies that you've done with people that
could help maybe identify why we might need it.
Speaker 9 (29:00):
Yeah, well, interesting that you're asking that question, because I
am actually right now. I just finished filming for a
documentary on the work that I'm doing, because I want
people to see what it looks like from start to finish,
because I don't think there's anything out there right now
that shows, like I showed up with depression, this is
(29:21):
what we did, this is the treatment, and then now
I don't have depression right we haven't seen those stories,
and so I'm actually working on that right now because
I'm a believer in wanting to spread and educate how
this works.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Now.
Speaker 9 (29:37):
I think your question was how do you know which
psychedelic to use? I think that's what you were asking,
and I think that the answer to that is, like,
psilocybin is really good for like internal issues, So if
I need to work on something internal like my anxiety
(29:59):
or pression or PTSD, MDMA is really good for couples
and helping build empathy and understanding between couples. I believe
from my what I'm learning and what I've experienced, LSD
is really good for creatives for external stuff, so also
(30:21):
connecting with the world not the internal stuff right and
creating maybe art or music or something. I think ayahuasca
is going to be really really good for some deep, deep,
deep internal healing. And I think ayahuasca does both internal
and external. So there's a lot of different options. And
(30:45):
I think it also just depends on what you're trying
to seek. Like addiction tends to work better for with
EBA gain and maybe even I know it, ayahuasca not
so much because you have to be clean and sober
for a certain period of time. So it's going to
depend on the person. And also what do they have
(31:05):
access to, you know, where can you find somebody that
does aahuasca journeys versus somebody that does psilocybin. I think
psilocybin's easier to find right now because there's so many
studies being done on it.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
I think I asked your question. I'm not sure.
Speaker 8 (31:22):
Yeah, definitely broken down now.
Speaker 7 (31:25):
I got to follow up in today because I think
what I think the term that I've been more familiar
with is.
Speaker 8 (31:31):
Somewhere in one of those you mentioned. What about kenemine, oh, kenemy?
Speaker 9 (31:36):
Yeah, so ketamine could be really good for treatment resistant depression.
It can also be used for pain personally not a
huge fan of ketamine. I just think it's it's not
doesn't have the permanence that other psychedelics have. It does
help some people, but it doesn't always work forever, Like
(31:57):
it lasts for a year or two years and then
it stops, which.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
I think kind of leaves people feeling worse.
Speaker 7 (32:06):
Right, there's academy might be the big form a part
of the psychedelics ist.
Speaker 8 (32:11):
You like that, that's gonna be the part where they business.
They gonna make it business.
Speaker 9 (32:17):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I've worked with ketamine, Like, I've
actually had clients use ketamine and I've guided them through it.
What I don't like about ketamine personally is sometimes they
don't remember everything, and that bothers me a little because
I don't feel like you can really get the kind
of healing that you need if you don't remember the experience.
(32:40):
And like I said, it feels to me like a
fifty to fifty It works fifty percent of the time,
and I want something that's going to have a better
success rate than that. That's just my personal opinion on that,
But I think the reason why ketymine is so popular
and it's so much more widespread is because there's already
legal use is for kenmy.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
Right.
Speaker 10 (33:04):
Yeah, well we touched on not being able to make
it to the bathroom alone and some of the miss
things that might happen through misuses.
Speaker 8 (33:17):
Can you touch on some of maybe the.
Speaker 7 (33:22):
Concerns safety concerns around the psilocyber assistant therapy.
Speaker 8 (33:26):
And maybe whyse take us along to get this stuff approved.
Speaker 9 (33:31):
So I think the concerns are really stigma related, like
people don't really understand what it is. I think. So
here's what I know. Back when in the sixties, even
our government experimented on psilocybin with the military, and what
(33:51):
they found is when they gave psilocybin to people in
the military, they all wanted to put down their guns.
Oh that's kind of defeat. That doesn't match. Yeah, like
that's right, that doesn't And so there was this huge
hippie movement, right make you know, make love, not war,
the peace, the whole thing, and they were really worried.
(34:15):
The government was worried about how this was affecting the
masses because it was making them anti war, which is
why psilocybin got put on the you know, the list
at the last minute, literally at the last minute, psilocybon
was at it, and so psilocybin became an illegal substance
mostly because it caused you instead of inciting you to
(34:38):
be a better you know, shooter or whatever like so,
so there's a lot of stigma, mostly by the government
about that this is this drug is so awful.
Speaker 5 (34:54):
That we're trying to overcome.
Speaker 9 (34:56):
We're trying to change the narrative and be like, it's
actually not like that, unless unless you're using it at
high amounts, mixing it with other things and not being
responsible about it right, not using it in a good way.
So what do we have to be concerned about today?
(35:16):
There are some physical conditions that are not good for psilocybin,
like severe cardiovascular issues, epilepsy. There's certain medications that people
are on that can interfere, So I say, really, the
main thing about what do you need to be concerned
(35:36):
about is making sure that your provider or your practitioner
does an assessment to rule all of those health risks out.
And once that's done, then it's about making sure that
somebody is walking you through the experience from start to
finish and not just like not preparing you. There's also
(35:57):
integration afterwards. That's really really important. The journey itself is
just a download of data doesn't mean it'll all makes sense.
Sometimes you need affect most of the time, I'd say
maybe even all the time. You need to process through
that information through integration so that it actually becomes a
healing experience and not just this weird crazy thing there.
Speaker 8 (36:20):
There's some you went through it actually helped them.
Speaker 9 (36:22):
Yes, Yes, Like integration afterwards is key to making it
positive and to creating permanence around the healing. So it's
literally like, so here's one thing that we see a lot.
People go to Costa Rica or Jamaica and they're getting
(36:42):
these treatments, but there's no preparation around it. They just
show up and boom, they're doing it, and then there's
no integration afterwards, so they don't even know how to
make sense of it.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
That.
Speaker 9 (36:55):
Instead, what they do is they compartmentalize the experience and they.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
Just go back to what they were doing, which.
Speaker 9 (37:00):
Means they didn't actually integrate it and change as a result. Right,
And so what I want to what I'm a huge
advocate for is it's a whole process. It's not just
one day. It's like weeks it's the weeks leading up.
So with when I do this work, I require at
least three sessions beforehand where we're going to prepare you,
(37:22):
we're going to do the assessment. We're going to come
up with a list of intentions so that when you're
in it, I can feed you that list and you
work on your stuff instead of just chasing rabbits around
in your head. Right, like, No, let's actually get to
the meet and help you resolve that issue you have
with your mother, help you get over the sexual assault
(37:43):
trauma that you had, help you quit alcohol or smoking cigarettes,
free you of the depression and the anxiety, and then
the integration afterwards super key, super important in making sense
out of this crazy experience that gives you so much
information that sometimes you don't even know what it all
(38:03):
means yet because there's so much. I just think it's
really really important that people understand that when it's therapeutic,
it's a whole process.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
It's not just a day.
Speaker 8 (38:14):
M Wow, man, it's amazing. I'm hope, I hope, I
hope you all really.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
Getting something from this today, because it's just crazy amount
of information that comes out from this. And you're absolutely
right if you know, if you're beginning to work, you
might as well continue and see it all the way through.
Speaker 8 (38:32):
There's no point of because uh, in my eyes, that
will be doing more damage.
Speaker 7 (38:38):
You will be definitely like it's like cracking the egg
open without using that yolk for something.
Speaker 8 (38:45):
You gotta cook. You gotta scramble egg yolk or something
with it. You know what I'm saying. You can't just
crack the egg and leave the laying there.
Speaker 7 (38:50):
It's gonna go bad, and that's not helping anybody at all.
Speaker 5 (38:55):
Right, That's right.
Speaker 9 (38:56):
That's why it's important to when you if you if
you seek out this treatment, it's important that you're working
with somebody who understands. So there's there's underground therapists and
there's above ground therapist. I'm an above ground therapist. I've
got Psilocybin Assistant Therapy on my website. I'm located in
Las Cruces, New Mexico, and I don't hide it. I'm
(39:17):
like out there I'm doing this because I don't I'm
not doing it underground, and underground usually means people are
doing things bare minimum, doesn't necessarily mean they provide the
whole package. I actually won't do the treatment with you
if you haven't already scheduled your integrations, because it's an
entire package.
Speaker 7 (39:37):
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, and the key you can check
her website out it is I can't read, I can't
MARIPOSACOUNSELNK center dot com.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
Yes, yes center dot com.
Speaker 7 (39:53):
I well absolutely, I'll send that to you and I'll
make sure when we repost the.
Speaker 8 (39:56):
Apistol that will have her information to share.
Speaker 7 (39:59):
For everybody who it is interested in following up and
maybe begin some.
Speaker 8 (40:03):
Type of therapy for yourself.
Speaker 9 (40:05):
And one more thing i'd like to say real quick,
just because I think this leads into what you wanted
to also mention. One of the main things that I
get from people after doing this treatment is they suddenly are.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
Not interested in alcohol anymore. It's really weird.
Speaker 9 (40:23):
Even the people who come to me for things like
depression anxiety PTSD, they'll report to me afterwards. You know
what's weird is I'm not having that glass of wine
I used to have every night and I'm not interested anymore.
And I'm like, I didn't know you were drinking wine
every night. You never told me that, Like, well, I
didn't think it was a thing. And I'm like, well, Okay,
maybe it wasn't a thing, but it's really interesting how
(40:45):
psilocybin tends to give people an aversion to alcohol afterwards.
So people who are wanting to cut back, people that
are wanting to, like, you know, maybe figure out a
way to wean.
Speaker 5 (40:58):
Off of alcohol.
Speaker 9 (41:01):
Magic mushrooms, psilocybin, both microdosing and microdosing are very effective
for that.
Speaker 5 (41:06):
I just wanted to throw that at there because I
think it's important.
Speaker 8 (41:09):
People know there.
Speaker 7 (41:11):
You never know, I mean, I have to kind of
understand something changed about me recently. I haven't, like, I
hadn't had a drinking like two months, and I used
I think it's the schedule because I used to drink
on a schedule on Thurtay nights where I'm out doing
things with people, and I haven't.
Speaker 8 (41:29):
Done that in a couple of months. So I think
that might just be the one reason I haven't had
a drink.
Speaker 7 (41:32):
But I noticed about that about myself the other day. Also,
all right, last question for me, how do you see
the therapy being integrated with mainstream or the changes coming
up within like stay next five or ten years.
Speaker 9 (41:52):
You know, hopefully if insurance could get on board. I
think that's going to be pretty pivotal. So first we
have to change the loss.
Speaker 8 (41:59):
Right.
Speaker 9 (42:00):
We got to get all the states or the federal
government to reschedule psilocybin, because right now it is scheduled
as a drug worse than I think, worse than kevimine,
worse then even some of this over the counter stuff.
It's crazy. That's the first thing that needs to happen.
(42:21):
The second thing is maybe insurance getting on board to help,
because right now it's a pretty costly endeavor, especially in
Oregon and Colorado where the costs to become licensed are
so high that it's making it prohibitive.
Speaker 5 (42:37):
But I would like to see people.
Speaker 9 (42:39):
I would like to see medical staff be more supportive
because I think there's I can't tell you how many
doctors send patients to me who have all these symptoms
but everything's fine, and it turns out it's psychosomatic. And
it's amazing what a journey can heal. With respect to
(43:01):
healing your mind, heals your body, which then, as according
to the theme of your web of your podcast here,
also makes you more functional, which means that you're going
to be able to be more financially able to take
care of yourself and I think it's all important.
Speaker 7 (43:21):
Yeah, I need to proper sum or something that I
like money. But thank you, thank you, thank you for
sharing here. I just wanted to touch on I have
a quick clip here that kind of touches into the
assistance therapy with dealing with addictions.
Speaker 8 (43:38):
So just a couple of minute.
Speaker 7 (43:41):
Clips everybody will be right back for Yeah.
Speaker 11 (43:46):
It's kind of counterintuitive, isn't it that.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
The use of.
Speaker 11 (43:54):
A drug psilocybin to treat addiction. M H Like that's
one of the main reasons that it can be effective,
is that because of that what did you call it,
the brain the default mode network, fault mode network exactly. Basically,
when you're addicted to something, you're in the default mode
(44:17):
network and you're kind of stuck in it, and that
psilocybin opens that up to other possibilities.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
Do you have do you have a lot of evidence in.
Speaker 11 (44:28):
Your own treatment of patients that shows that the effectiveness
of that.
Speaker 8 (44:34):
Yeah? Yes.
Speaker 12 (44:35):
And the tricky thing is so addictive substances. So you
have addicted to substances and then you have addictive behaviors, correct, Yeah,
so you have addicted subs substances trigger the reward center.
Speaker 13 (44:49):
Then dopamine kick kick kick kick, right, So that's a
neuronopathy for sure.
Speaker 12 (44:55):
That's being fired.
Speaker 13 (44:56):
Oh I'm going to get that reward and then I
can relax, But then it's it's all over again. Then
you have addictive behaviors, which is similar in that you
have the neurono pathway that has an end result. So
psilocybin does not work on the dopamine side of things
at all. You're not doing the rewards and er that's
(45:19):
why psilocybin is non addicting because it's not triggering that
part of our brain. And so that part has gone
with psilocybin, and then this part has gone with psilocybin too,
because you're no longer firing that behavioral neuronal pathway. So
when we take both of those out of it, so
(45:41):
for example, addiction from alcohol is a little heavier on
the behavioral side than the dopamine side. So when you
take that out of it, it gives you a lens
of wait a minute, why am I doing this behavior?
And then it starts to focus on yeah, and that
(46:04):
when you understand why you're doing a behavior, it doesn't
mean that that behavior is instantly gone, but what it
does do is it begins to lay the foundation for
you to have more better understanding and perhaps strength to
overcome that behavior.
Speaker 7 (46:25):
Wow, that's how How true to the calling does that
sound to you?
Speaker 5 (46:34):
To me?
Speaker 9 (46:35):
Unfortunately, I couldn't hear any of it, so I'm not.
Speaker 7 (46:38):
Oh wow, we've got to work on all technical issues.
Speaker 8 (46:45):
It's all right. I'm sorry. I have to apologize to
you for not making sure that I was coming through it. Well.
Speaker 7 (46:52):
Well, basically, she was just saying that you know that
it's kind of funny that the drugs can help you
come up with the addictions and stuff, and then she
was just breaking down how the addictions, specifically with alcohol,
the parties that can come in and they recognize the
reasonings and understand the whys and why they do it,
(47:12):
and that begins the process to become.
Speaker 8 (47:17):
The addiction.
Speaker 9 (47:18):
The other thing is that psilocybin is not addictive, and
I think people don't know that psilocybin there is zero
so there is no lethal dose of psilocybin and all
that does not I'm not saying people should go and
just do a bunch of it because that's not I mean,
it can make you sick if you do way way
way too much. But there's also it's not addictive. If
(47:38):
you tried to do mushrooms every day for three days,
by the third day you wouldn't feel anything. It stops working,
So there is no addiction, which is why I say
it's scheduled wrang in the schedule one because schedule one
means there's no medical use, no no known medical use,
and that it's addictive, and psilocybin doesn't qualify. It's actually
(48:01):
not addictive. So that's what I think the misconception is
is people go, well, how can you use a psychedelic
give somebody a drug to stop being addicted to drugs?
And it's like, well, you have to have the right one.
You have to have the ones that are not addictive,
that actually help you heal and maybe even help you
understand why you're doing that other drug that is addictive
(48:25):
to help you stop the addiction.
Speaker 7 (48:28):
Makes sense because anything overused could be considered a drug.
Like me and my donuts in the morning, that's definitely
a drug of mine. I guess to have my donuts
and coffee yeh. Sugar, yes, And I'm not even a
big sugar guy. Like on a regular basis, you offer
(48:49):
me a piece of taken like now, that's too sweet.
Speaker 8 (48:50):
I don't want it.
Speaker 7 (48:51):
But in the morning, I gotta have my sugar in
my coffee and you got to have my donuts. That's
just getting my life started. Without bet it's not going
to work well for anybody around.
Speaker 9 (49:02):
And everyone knows it.
Speaker 8 (49:05):
Well, thank you for your information.
Speaker 7 (49:07):
Before we get out of here, everybody, I just got
some information. You know, we always got to touch on
the physical side of our health.
Speaker 8 (49:14):
And then we of course I got thrown.
Speaker 7 (49:17):
Since my background is in finance, I gotta throwing some
stuff about money. So bear with me today. I apologize again.
I'm doing a lot of apologizing today. I don't have
slides compared like.
Speaker 8 (49:27):
I usually do to show you all.
Speaker 7 (49:29):
So we're going to go through this information real quick
and hopefully we can pick up some stuff. So touching
on psilicybal assistant therapy workouts are emergent areas of interest
combining the mental health benefits of psilocybin and physical exercise.
While isn't While there isn't a lot of specific information
available yet, the general idea is used the enhnce mental
(49:52):
state induced by psilocybin to improve the effectiveness of physical workouts.
Speaker 8 (49:59):
So do you believe that?
Speaker 7 (50:01):
What would you think when it comes to using psilocybin
and other psychedelics with working.
Speaker 9 (50:08):
Out, Well, I think if you're microdosing, I think that
makes sense. Microdosing is taking such small amounts, you're not
really getting the psychedelic experience. It's more just makes you
have more energy, it makes you more focused. I think
microdosing makes sense. I think trying to work out when
you have like a macrodose is going to be really
(50:31):
hard because you become couchlocked. Your body literally doesn't want
to move much because all the work is going on
in your mind. But I can see definitely with microdosing,
I would say, yeah, it probably would. Like I use
I sometimes will microdose before yoga sessions and it really
helps me get into the yoga, like really into my
(50:53):
body and connection. So yeah, I say microdosing, yes, macrodosing
probably not some.
Speaker 7 (51:01):
Okay, So everything in moderation understoods that all right, that
she kind of touches on that, and it backs up
with this potential benefits and enhanced mind body connection, hence
yoga increased motivation. The positive mental effects of psilocybin might
boost motivation. Motivation and enjoyment during exercise. And last they
(51:27):
have stretch reductions, but consideration safety first. Always ensure a
safe environment and have a sober guide or therapist present
during the session. So make sure if you do try
some psychedelics assisted workouts that you got somebody there to.
Speaker 8 (51:44):
Watch it back. You don't want to chuck yourself on
the ball belt. That'd be horrible. Don't clout like that, please, no.
Speaker 5 (51:51):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 7 (51:54):
Lastly, we have some investments to talk about. Investing in psilocybinus.
The therapy is gaining traction as the potential for these
therapists and to treat mental health disorders becoming more widely recognized.
Here's some six key points, and this is very good point.
I like this here. Why invest the silicibal assistant therapy.
There's the growing market. The global psychedelic drugs market is
(52:17):
expected to reach nine point eight billion by twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 8 (52:22):
That's amazing.
Speaker 7 (52:23):
There's no way the insurance company will be ignoring anything.
There's no way the government will be annoying any industry
just bringing in a nine point eight billion They're going
to have to find a way to either regulate it
or should it down or you know we're going to
go further other ground or whatnot. So how do you
feel about you? Do you think that that's an accurate number?
Nine point eight billion?
Speaker 8 (52:44):
That's that's the large numbers I actually do.
Speaker 9 (52:47):
And the reason, unfortunately, is because if they're following close
to the cannabis model, corporate corporations are what are trying
to get their hands in early like what's happening in
Oregon and Colorado. But I will say that I'm actually
a little opposed to the corporate world taking over because
(53:08):
it takes away the individualness of this experience. Like I
believe that trying to take a person and fit them
into a corporate cookie cutter method is not going to
be as valuable as me catering to the individual and
their culture, not just not just like you know, like
(53:31):
if I'm trying to make somebody fit into the corporate method,
that would mean, Okay, you have to listen to this music,
you have to be in a room with thirty other people,
you have to do it in a certain way where
some people are like no, I want to be in nature,
or I want to be listening to this particular type
of music, or I want you know, I want to
deal with. I want to go back and focus on
(53:53):
my ancestors, right, and I want to have like maybe
my ceremonial cultural ceremony stuff with me. I don't want
to have to do this in a corporate way. I
think it's going to be much more valuable if we
can keep it to the you know, to where people
can get exactly what they need the way they need it. So, yes,
(54:14):
those numbers sound right. I'm not liking that direction because
I think that when you try to put everybody into
a certain model, people get left out or they end
up end up hurting them and not helping them. So
we'll see, we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 7 (54:32):
But we will have to rely on specialists like yourself
that can do the proper direction against the government machine.
So I'll say, well, Greg that we have you and
other resources to reach out to, so y'all pay attention
to those. But that's again, nine point eight billion, that's
not a number to stutter at. If that's coming out,
(54:55):
they're definitely going to be coming up with some legal
regulatory things on this.
Speaker 8 (55:01):
Let's see here.
Speaker 7 (55:02):
Market market volatility as an emergency industry, psychedelic market can
be volatile and subject to rapid changes.
Speaker 8 (55:08):
I put that in with them there. Anything when it comes.
Speaker 7 (55:11):
Investing outside of land and real estate is going to
be a volatile market. And real estate is really a
volatile market itself if you pay attention to two it
too certain segments.
Speaker 8 (55:22):
Let's see last on investing here.
Speaker 7 (55:25):
We do have some publicly traded companies, so if you
are interested, I'm a heavy believer of stocks. Always consulcial
local financial professional before putting money into stocks. But there
are several publicly traded companies involved in development and distribution
of psychedelic therapies. Examples are Act Your Life Sciences, Come
(55:47):
Past Pathways and filled Trip Health look like they got
that name down field Trip Health.
Speaker 8 (55:53):
When it comes to psychedelic therapy. So those are a
few stocks there. We have some research and development.
Speaker 7 (55:59):
Investment in companies focused on the research and development of
psychedelic medicines can be a promising avenue. Always the resets
and developments, and in any industry itself, when you come
to looking at stocks like for example, Coca Cola, I say,
always look at the backups of those companies. Because Coca
Cola they have to buy their bottles from a company,
(56:21):
so that company is going to always sell bottles Coca Cola.
They have to buy their packaging from somebody. Their company's
always going to be selling packaging. They have to buy
their water and flavor from somebody, so they're always going
to have You got to always look at the backup
companies from not just the front line. So keep that
in mind when it comes to investment. Also, those could
be some trips to you know what I'm saying, get
around supporting technologies companies developing technologies and tools to support
(56:45):
the administration of psychedelic assistant therapies. Also present and investment
that's never thinking about that. You got some apps that
might be coming out. Tell you how to go through it, Catherine,
you might be releasing the app, So there's another way
to invest. You know, it's all over the place. Gotta
love it, gotta love it.
Speaker 8 (57:04):
Ethical considerations. Investors should consider the ethical.
Speaker 7 (57:08):
Implications of investing the subsistence that alter consciousness.
Speaker 8 (57:12):
ABB blue whatever, whatever, whatever.
Speaker 7 (57:14):
We buy weed stocks every day and we smoke weed
just the same, so know that.
Speaker 8 (57:18):
Out to the side and resources.
Speaker 7 (57:21):
For more detailed information, you might want to check our
resources like edge Investment Guide and the list of publicly
traded psychedelic companies.
Speaker 8 (57:30):
So there you go.
Speaker 7 (57:31):
For anybody who's interested in investment, just a little bit
of information might help you get started again, do your
own research, and always, always, always consult with your personal financial.
Speaker 8 (57:43):
Profession before you take any move. But Cappin, do you
have you other than the company itself?
Speaker 7 (57:50):
Have you participated in any type of investments or startups
when it comes to Stilocyber and assistant Therapy.
Speaker 9 (57:58):
No, just the documentary that I'm making, and I'm also
going to be writing a book or two, so okay,
that's those are the ventures I'm taking to try to
help back up my you know, just my financial self
and hoping that you know, they lead to something we'll see.
But you know, I like your idea of an app.
I think that that actually isn't a bad one. I
(58:21):
thought of also maybe publishing a workbook around assistant therapy.
But I also do trainings, so if you remember, I do,
I do retreats, I do trainings. So I'm also, like,
you know, trying to find other ways to be able
to do the work I enjoy and also build myself,
(58:42):
you know, a good yeah, just so that I can
take care of myself.
Speaker 7 (58:47):
Right, absolutely, being paid to do the work that you
love to do is an amazing feeling.
Speaker 8 (58:53):
I agree, just got to love it, so I wish
you all the best with that. Absolutely, please share.
Speaker 7 (59:00):
I will give share information for her website, so anybody
looking to contact Catherine can reach out to her and
please stare the upcoming documentary information in your books that
you have coming up. I'm just gonna put this out
there because anybody, I'm trying anybody. Anytime somebody mentions writing
a book, I love getting autographs from authors.
Speaker 8 (59:24):
I'm just gonna put that out there.
Speaker 7 (59:26):
When I bought a book, you know, not a requirement.
Speaker 8 (59:30):
Hint, hint, I just love it.
Speaker 7 (59:32):
But please keep us posted with anything you got coming up.
We'll be happy to share that. Hopefully we'll get to
have another discussion maybe on the same topic or other topics.
We do have one of the guests that kicked off
the Psychedelic Assistant Therapy episode series. She came up with
(59:55):
the idea of having a panel discussion of all the
experts coming together. So I will definitely send that invite
out to you see if you can make that happen
as well.
Speaker 8 (01:00:04):
But thank you, thank you. It was yes, oh yeah,
so it's already okay. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 7 (01:00:12):
I love it. So yes, yes, Melissa, so okay down, yes,
all right, we got it. We got to record it,
can't back out now.
Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
We got it.
Speaker 8 (01:00:27):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (01:00:27):
Thank you everybody for tuning in. Hope y'all learned something
because I always do.
Speaker 8 (01:00:32):
I love it. I can't get enough of it.
Speaker 7 (01:00:35):
Thank you Catherine for coming and joining us today and
sharing the information. I can't thank you enough. And again,
well wish is what everything got going? And keep us posted?
All right, love y'all. Oh, let me get my intro out.
I got to struggled with this one more time. So
thank you for listening to Mental Health and Wealth, the
podcast where we explore the connection between mental well being
(01:00:55):
and the financial success.
Speaker 8 (01:00:56):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learn something new.
Speaker 7 (01:00:59):
If you have any question, since comments, or feedback, feel
free to email us at the Playground TV at outlook
dot com.
Speaker 8 (01:01:05):
He've a review. We would love to hear from you
and appreciate yourupport.
Speaker 7 (01:01:08):
Remember you are not alone in your journey and your
mental health is your greatest asset. Until next time, stay healthy,
stay wealthy, stay tuned.
Speaker 8 (01:01:16):
The y'all, laid on. I dedicate this.
Speaker 6 (01:01:23):
Song's assion depression.
Speaker 14 (01:01:30):
The sunshine, and it started in my heart and it
feels like a cold nights.
Speaker 6 (01:01:54):
The joy that you promised me. Tell me so right,
probably be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Mostly can't explay.
Speaker 14 (01:02:07):
Fell from head like the shower.
Speaker 8 (01:02:10):
When I think I must better.
Speaker 6 (01:02:11):
I'm gonna beleeve when this is over.
Speaker 14 (01:02:15):
Either though I see I starts like a.
Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Eola.
Speaker 9 (01:02:24):
What you do?
Speaker 14 (01:02:25):
I start?
Speaker 8 (01:02:26):
Come on? So I'm for.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Getting down, shall hate to sing.
Speaker 15 (01:02:33):
Again down God's people so much like this sid so side.
Every day gonna be fucking but excuse for me today
don't have to cost day?
Speaker 9 (01:02:49):
But there is no sun shine.
Speaker 14 (01:02:53):
Ut them a crown and it start in the hard
and it feels like a cold night.
Speaker 6 (01:02:58):
It ain't easy, but today's.
Speaker 9 (01:03:02):
Tell me where.
Speaker 8 (01:03:05):
Where is that jo?
Speaker 14 (01:03:06):
It was a jo?
Speaker 5 (01:03:08):
Frowns me?
Speaker 14 (01:03:09):
Tell me all right? The most power can't exclam.
Speaker 15 (01:03:19):
It goes with.
Speaker 14 (01:03:20):
Y'all from the shower.
Speaker 8 (01:03:24):
I know we her child, but still.
Speaker 15 (01:03:28):
Come home even though I see you start you feel
that is what can so up, even though I'm.
Speaker 6 (01:03:37):
Still stop.
Speaker 14 (01:03:43):
Down.
Speaker 13 (01:03:45):
Should hate to say again down.
Speaker 8 (01:03:47):
Because people kill us so much.
Speaker 6 (01:03:53):
Less. Who can't you just smile? Whatever you're in right now, smile.
(01:04:13):
You just smile, and the people say.
Speaker 14 (01:04:24):
You understand.
Speaker 15 (01:04:29):
I say, you know it's understanding when and while you're waiting.
Understand jail and why you praying. Look in the mirror,
always remember the.
Speaker 6 (01:04:47):
Husky almost.
Speaker 8 (01:04:52):
Goes power.
Speaker 6 (01:04:53):
You hang out for herdships, difficulties.
Speaker 7 (01:05:00):
Yere's his door.
Speaker 16 (01:05:02):
This is what I do.
Speaker 6 (01:05:07):
Whatever is good, all things are working. Still, stop.
Speaker 14 (01:05:18):
Yourself.
Speaker 8 (01:05:20):
I know it's hard right now.
Speaker 6 (01:05:24):
Because you're winning.
Speaker 16 (01:05:26):
Stand Look Betters, Jealous, New Orleans, Cleveland understand, Detroit is understand.
Speaker 8 (01:05:42):
He feelers.
Speaker 14 (01:05:47):
Jersey and.
Speaker 15 (01:05:53):
All the people says, I just don't you to be
happy just then?
Speaker 7 (01:06:01):
You gotta have something happened there.
Speaker 6 (01:06:03):
I want you to have joy, because hen't nobody take
that coming you.
Speaker 8 (01:06:08):
I'll see you smile
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