EMDR_ Ketamine-Assisted Therapy_ and how these therapies can help heal couples_ relationship trauma_

Tune in to the Mental Health is Wealth Podcast! 🎙️ Join us for an enlightening conversation with Chantel Ames, a renowned expert in mental health. In this episode, Chantel delves into the transformative power of EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing), Ketamine-Assisted Therapy, and how these therapies can help heal couples' relationship trauma. Discover innovative approaches to mental wellness and gain valuable insights into how these therapies can change lives. Don't miss this opportunity to learn from Chantel Ames and take a step towards a healthier, happier you!
#MentalHealthAwareness #MentalHealthMatters #EndTheStigma #SelfCare #MentalHealthAdvocate #MentalWellbeing #TherapyTalks #MentalHealthSupport #Mindfulness #RecoveryIsPossible

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:35):
If you have experienced something horrible and have developed psychological
symptoms such as flashbacks, fears, sadness, or sleep problems, you
may well be helped by e m d R, a
proven and effective therapy. Suppose you have been confronted with
a violent crime, an accident, you have been bitten by

(00:56):
a dog, or you have had to deal with sexual
abuse or violence at home. Such a powerful experience is
stored into your brain with a lot of emotions. Once
such a memory is stored in your long term memory,
it can bother you for quite a long time. The
disturbing memory keeps coming back unintentionally, for example, with feelings

(01:17):
of powerlessness or believing you are not worthwhile. E MDR
therapy can help you get rid of these complaints and feelings.
At first, an EMDR therapist will ask you to activate
the memory of this disturbing experience from your long term memory.
The memory is now stored in your short term memory,
also called the working memory. Then the EMDR therapist will

(01:42):
ask you to focus on this horrible event. From there,
the therapist will move his fingers in front of your
eyes rapidly back and forth and ask you to track
his fingers as best and as fast as you can.
By keeping a traumatic memory in your mind and tracking
the fingers of the therapist at the same time, the
working memory gets to process a lot of information. At

(02:04):
the same time, as it is so much information, the
image becomes blurred and loses its emotional charge. When the
emotional charge of an image lessons, it also becomes easier
to think differently about the experience. You will notice this
because you feel less powerless or you feel worthwhile again,

(02:26):
the intrusions have gone, and you feel less anxious, you
feel less depressed, you sleep better, and because you have
managed to leave the experience behind you, you start enjoying
life and looking forward to the future.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, yes, yes, yes, great, great stuff. I'm so excited
to get into this today. We have an expert in
we have shed tail aims. You're gonna have to tell
me what those letters stand for, because you know I
can't study that far into school.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
But welcome, welcome, welcome, everybody to Mental Health is Wealth.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
This is the podcast where we explore the connection between
your mind and your move and your money. I'm your host,
Doc Dillinger. We're here to achieve mental wellness and financial freedom.
Also in this episode, we're going to talk.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
About e M d R a little bit.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
We might touch on katamine assisted therapy and some couple
therapy with relationship trauma.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
So we have our expert in Chantel aims. Thank you
for joining us. How are you doing today?

Speaker 4 (03:34):
I'm doing well and I just want to thank you
for me here and I enjoyed that video, and yeah,
I'm excited to be here to talk about em DR,
which is a long name. It's eye movement desensitization reprocessing.
So yeah, we all prefer to go bye. This is

(03:57):
so much shorter.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Oh, thank you, thank you, because the long version of
that I cannot say even two times fast we're going
to do. But yeah, so first so absolutely jump right
into that. When it comes to e M d R,
what is the actual process of it or what is
it for the people?

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Well, I'll start with what em DR can be helpful for.
So some of what is like referenced in the video
is really talking about symptoms that may be a sign
of like post traumatic stress disorder, and so that's PTSD.
Although you can have traumatic or distressing experiences and not

(04:46):
meet the criteria for PTSD and still get benefit from
e M d R. As a way to process experiences.
Then you can also have what is sometimes referred to
as like complex PTSD. And really there we're talking about
things that happen in your developmenttil years, either you know,

(05:11):
sort of growing up or maybe a little later in
your teen years, but we're talking about events that are
ongoing and often involve situations with your caregivers. So EMDR
can be a part of a treatment for complex PTSD,
but for situations like that, you're really looking at blending

(05:36):
different treatments. But yeah, EMDR can be helpful. And yeah,
and EMDR really is a therapy that's built on a
number of phases and they correspond to things that you
might experience just in talk therapy. So the first one,

(05:57):
the first couple are like really getting to know about
the therapy, getting to build a relationship with the therapist
that you're working with, and there that's like building trust
in the relationship so that you're able to go into
those distressing memories. Another part, right is really finding out

(06:22):
more about either the memory or the experience and what's
associated with it, so whether it's some troubling beliefs. An
example of that might be that the world is not safe.
Another example could be that I can't really trust myself
to make safe decisions. So really getting an idea of

(06:45):
the belief there emotions. Maybe there might be some bodily sensations,
fears and concerns, so you'll talk with a therapist about that,
and that can elicit uncomfortable emotions and sensations. But from there,

(07:07):
your therapist is gonna help you get into a state
of relaxation as you start to do the processing. And
so in the video they were talking about like eye
movement like this, and that was really the inception of
em DR was, you know, the eye movements and when

(07:28):
we sleep and we go into RAM and that's rapid
eye movement phase during sleep, they notice that there's some
processing that takes place of our lived experience throughout the day.
And so E MDR in some ways is like borrowing
from that, that sort of bilateral movement. But we have

(07:53):
we've got more ways to work with it. So as
opposed to just like following and tracking finger which you
can do, you can do E M d R online.
So there are programs where you're following a ball that's
moving from side to side. I also have wearable devices

(08:16):
that people can have on their wrists that are like
tapping from left to right. And I work with clients
who have some level of dissociation that's caused by the
trauma and there, I mean, they can experience like a
loss of time, a loss of what it is that

(08:40):
they're doing. So you can imagine, and I think a
lot of people have had this experience. You're driving in
your car and you have a moment where you said,
where am I going right? And so we all have
these moments of dissociation or walking into a room not
remembering what it is that you're getting. But for some
people be a little more profound than that. So I

(09:02):
teach them a butterfly hug, which is just tapping, linking
your thumbs, tapping on your collar bone, and I do
that for bilateral processing, but you can also do that
as a way to soothe yourself and help regulation of
your nerve system. Right, and so oh wow, yeah, e.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Whole lot of that on a video I was watching
about PTSD regulation.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yes, yeah, yeah, there are a couple of different tapping
protocols that you can follow that really help regulate the
sympathetic nervous system. That's the part that gets most disregulated
and EMDR can feel a little bit magical to people,

(09:51):
you know, if you look it up, which I suggest
like listeners do if they're interested. There's a lot of
material out there, but so far we just have theories
about why it works, right, And so for people who
are experiencing it, what they notice most is that there's

(10:13):
really a decrease in the distress that they felt beforehand
when thinking about or being pulled back into these memories
and these different sort of emotions and sensations that are
associated with that event that happened to them.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
So when you're at the part of where you say
you're teaching them the food or the butterfly hug park.
So I'm saying there are different There are eight phases
of E M d R therapy.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
So where are we at at that part of the process.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
Yeah, we're getting into the third phase there.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Oh wow, So that's kind of still in the beginning
where you're getting to know, open up yourself before you
ended up profits of working.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
Yeah, well, we'll do what is sometimes referred to as
like the critical incident, right, And I think critical is
maybe makes it sound a little bit more alarming than
it actually.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
That's the good work.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
Good yeah, and so the critical incident might be something
that if we were to think of distress on a
you know scale from zero to ten. Uh, and maybe
you're coming to therapy because something is like at a
seven or eight or even a ten. A critical incident

(11:42):
would be something that is a three to a five.
And we'll have a person do the tapping and they
get an experience of the distress lowering, right, and that
helps them to I'm got to say, to have an
experience and then to have faith in the process right again,

(12:06):
because it can feel unlike other therapies where we could potentially,
you know, explain what all the processes are that are
taking place. E M d R still has some mystery
to it, right.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Kind of kind of like the Academene therapy where they're
doing a lot of testing and.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Approvals with the courts and everything on the law side,
so you break you're doing some breakthrough work. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
And the similarity there and I'll just say no OCS
and that stands for non ordinary states of consciousness, so
almost you know, similar to the R E M when
we go into a dream state. We're ordering on that
with E M, D R and and no two people's

(13:00):
experience of EMDR are the same, meaning that some people
might have more visual elements to it and there might
be a sense of continuity to it. Other people might
have like sensations like oh, I'm feeling something like sitting

(13:23):
on my chest right and I'm going to ask them
to stay with that, stay with what they're noticing. For
some people, they may be flooded by feelings that are
coming up right as they're processing. So as they're doing
and I'll just do the butterfly tapping right so as
they're doing this.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
And.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
When I'm working with someone new, I'm really watching for
signals from them, like movements that they're making, movements that
their eyes are making. I'm watching for how regulated they are.
And I'm going to start with like really short processing sessions,

(14:07):
and when we come to arrest, they'll come to arrest.
I'll invite them to come to arrest and just to
notice any feeling, sensations, or thoughts that are present. And
then sometimes there's going to be an invitation to share
so that I can get a sense of where we

(14:28):
are in the processing and if there's another intervention that's
needed as a person is working, meaning if they you
know you could potentially get stuck in a loop and
then you might need some help to exit that loop,
and it could take a number of sessions before something

(14:48):
that is let's say eight in terms of distress, moves
into like a three or a four, And our goal
typically to get it to like a one or two
in terms of the distress that's there. And often what
will happen as we're approaching the one or two is

(15:11):
that the person I'm working with will generate a more
sort of adaptive belief about that situation. So, for example,
if the person believes.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
When you say you're trying to get it down to
a one or two, yeah, well are you saying the
response to the situation or how they're kind of dealing
with it is when you say that you kind of
get it down.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
Yeah. So it's really hard to like separate those two things,
right because.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
There yeah, yeah, it's hard for me to ask that
that's okay.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
They're interrelated, right, so uh E M d R is.
It's not changing the past, right because we just we
don't have a time machine to do that, but we
are changing our relationship to what happened in us, right,
and in that change of relationship, we're also changing our
responses to it, right, and we're changing our responses in

(16:16):
the moment, like how do we feel about it right now?
What are our thoughts about it right now?

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Right?

Speaker 4 (16:22):
What are our thoughts about ourselves and our ability to
either be safe right now or to feel a sense
of safety in the present moment, our beliefs about our
ability to like handle situations that might come up in
the future. And now I'm getting into maybe later sort

(16:47):
of phases of E, M, D R. Right, once we're
able to like bring you know, that level of distress,
thatment we might be feeling, or that reactivity right to
what has happened to us in the past, and approach
like a more adaptive could be a belief about ourselves.

(17:09):
So in the scenario where we don't believe that we
can make a decision, we can't trust ourselves to be safe, right,
the adaptive belief might be I can like learn enough
to discern, like what's right for me, what's the safe
you know, what's the safe thing to do in the

(17:31):
situation or future situations.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Accurately assess the situation to make a more conscious decision.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
Yeah, right, Like have a sense of our our ability
to do that, right, And.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, we talk about a lot about cognitive.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
Behavior therapy, and I think.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
That that goes a long way to I think, I mean,
not necessarily everybody could benefit front of it, but everybody
could benefit from me.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
You know me.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
That's the way of how we treat each other every
day and just even the process of future planning.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
Yeah, and and really, yeah, cognitive behavior therapy really teaches
us about thoughts in general, and thoughts that all people have, right,
So we we all use you know, very similar thinking patterns, right,

(18:29):
and we can sometimes I'm gonna say thinking patterns, but
they're going to call them cognitive distortions. Right, we can
fall into like catastrophization. Nothing's ever going to work, it's
never going to happen, and we can fall into like
black and white thinking about stuff. Right, So it's only yeah,

(18:54):
and there's a whole list of them.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Right.

Speaker 4 (18:56):
So just being able to like understand that about yourself
and also that that's a very human experience can be helpful.
And then CBT allows us or it gives us tools
to evaluate like our thoughts. Right if we can like me, like,
oh that's me just catastrophizing, Like let me just check

(19:17):
and see does you know what's going on? Does it
support that, is there evidence for it? How likely is
that to happen? Right? And a difference between E M
d R and maybe like cognitive behavioral therapy, and they
do have cognitive behavioral therapy for trauma, right that they

(19:43):
use for PTSD. The difference here though, is that we
were talking about with E M d R. It's it's
also a somatic experience, so you know, it involves in
non ordinary states of consciousness and there's a somatic and
somatic means that the body, right, and so we're really

(20:09):
just in tapping even we're using our body, right, but
we're also tapping into sensation. So we're not just talking
about things at the level of thought, right, We're also
talking about sensations like my heart is beating really fast,
I feel like all the blood is like rushing away
from my fingers. My hands feel so cold, my feet

(20:31):
feel so cold.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Right.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
And also we're dealing with things in an emotional so
a really an embodied level. And that if we think
about PTSD, if we were able to just sort of
sit down and say, oh, look, this is not rational,
and the person could say, oh, you're right, I'm just

(20:54):
going to stop feeling these things. I'm missed up reacting responding, right.
We don't see that that that's not that's not helpful
in the way we would like it to be, and.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
It doesn't solve the problem. The problem is still there.
You're just dealing with it in a way.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Yeah. Yeah, you're trying to think your way out of it.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah, area, And.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
It lives in the you know, our experiences also live
in our body, right, Like we're just learning machines, right,
And we learn from our experiences, and we learn in
the sense that it's like, oh, I've seen this before,
I know what it is. I can kind of predict

(21:42):
what's going to happen, and so I know how to respond, right,
And that response is just not in our language centers.
It's not just our mind that's responding, it's our whole system. Yeah.
So that's a difference between those two modalities. And then
where there's some similarity. What makes CBT a cognitive behavioral

(22:07):
therapy for trauma effective is a part of it is
exposure therapy. So as we tell the story again and
again and again and again, our responses to it, our
reactivity to it tends to lower, it tends to drop off,
and uh, there's there is something somewhat akin to that

(22:33):
that's happening in E M d R because we are
exposing ourselves, you know, to these memories, to these beliefs,
to the thoughts that we have, to any of the
emotions and sensations that we've got that are associated, you know,

(22:55):
with those troubling events.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
But as this kind of we always got to talk
on the double's advocate side of subject when we bring
them up, because it is about good information and healthy
management of all of these. So what are some of
the potential.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Of side effects or.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Bad results and how can they be managed when dealing
with E M d R.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. So thank you so
much for bringing that up. Right. So, E M d
R at least from my so I'll speak from my experience, right,
E M d R is in my experience, really beneficial
when it's an adjunct therapy, right, meaning that yeah, you're

(23:46):
seeing somebody, you're whatever that modality if it's like talk therapy,
but you're seeing somebody and you've been building up resources
for yourself.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
Right.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
So, and those are some of the things that you
had mentioned to me, like when we're talking about PTSD
and things that you can do to help regulate your
nervous system. That's what I mean by resourcing, right. So
you have a few of those things in place, right,
and when e M d R is over, you return,
you know, back to the therapist or the counselor or

(24:21):
chaplain or you know, whoever it is that you're working with.
Right now. The things that can happen right with em
d R, particularly in the beginning phases, is you might
find that your symptoms are going up right because you're
talking about that thing that's so difficult, that thing that

(24:46):
you don't want to talk about. And that's one of
the reasons you seek out right because you're like, oh,
I don't have to you know, talk over this, talking
about it. Has it worked, or you know, just feels
like I'm not going to live if I've got to
keep talking about this.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Right in my head, it seemed like something that you
haven't addressed yet. So you're going to discover all of
these different parts of the emotions that you haven't even
started to tackle down.

Speaker 4 (25:16):
Oh my gosh, yes, yes, yeah, and again you know
it can feel yeah, I can almost feel like magical
And there I'm not saying like, oh, this is a
magical moment. It's sort of like, wait, where did they
come from? Why is that happening? I didn't know about that, right,

(25:38):
I wasn't aware of that, right, Yeah, So there's a
lot of potential things that can happen, and hopefully the
person that you're working with is going to address that beforehand, right,
and it's going to normalize it. It's going to say like, yeah,
this could happen, right, this has happened in the past,
I think more specifically, right, right, Yeah, And so yeah,

(26:02):
you're going to that those things are gonna you know, yeah,
the symptoms or whatever you want to say, whatever brought
you into therapy, Right, it's in the beginning phases. It's
going to build up a bit more. Right.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
Okay, Wow, that's amazing. So let me.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Ask how does a professional measure the success of m
d R therapy and even when it's coupled with other therapies,
how do you make sure that it's either going along
the same rate as another therapy program or how.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Do you just make sure that it's working?

Speaker 4 (26:44):
Yeah, well, I think I'll stay a like, how do
we know it's doing what the client hoped it would do, right,
like the goals of the client? How do we know
that it's meeting the goals of the client?

Speaker 3 (26:57):
Right?

Speaker 4 (26:59):
And there are like a number of different ways that
that you can do that. One is like measuring you know,
the distress, So going in and checking and seeing is
a distress coming down? Right? And then the adaptive beliefs, right,
are those how believable does a client like from a

(27:21):
one to seven? Right? They might come up with a
like an adaptive belief like what would you rather believe
right about this? And somebody might say, well, I'd rather
believe that. We'll just go with that. I can you know,
I'm going to be able to see when something's wrong
and I'm going to be able to make a differential right.

(27:45):
And then I could say, well, how believable is that
right now?

Speaker 3 (27:48):
Right? Like?

Speaker 4 (27:50):
And they might say, well, like a two right, and
the goal is to like get that much closer to
a seven right? And so that's like one way of measuring,
like is it doing what it needs to do?

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Right?

Speaker 4 (28:08):
Another way of like measuring is that the person you're
working with is just going to tell you they're just
when they come in let's say they're in session three
or four, right or maybe even later on, right, and
we're going to begin the session talking about, you know,
what we had just processed the session before, and if

(28:31):
anything is like come up right between sessions, and often
people will share their insights, right, so they you know,
what happens in session has a way of continuing after session.
And I give clients tools, right, Like if you're at

(28:52):
work and you start to think about this, will have
already built a metaphorical container, right that they can use
to sort of like compartmentalize, like I'm in therapy and
now I'm at work, and then they can go back
into that container and sort of pull that material up, right,
but it's sort of a safe storage space for that material.

(29:17):
And so often like they'll share with you, like I
just I feel something feels different, Like when I think
about this, I you know, my heart's not racing. I
know what happened, right, and I don't like it. I
don't like that it happened, but I don't feel as
much fear around it, right, I don't feel as much

(29:40):
grief around it, or I you know, there's there's something different,
and they're going to share that with you, right, And
this is kind of moving towards like the later stages
of E M d R therapy right where we want
to do and it's called installation of the positive belief.

(30:02):
But we're going to do then that's the like butterfly tapping, right,
it's at a much slower pace, and I'm going to
have the person I'm working with hold that more positive
adaptive belief that they have, right, hold it in their imagination, right,

(30:23):
and then we'll do brief tapping sessions with that right.
And that, interestingly enough helps the sympathetic nervous system incorporate
that experience, you know, in into the brain into the library, right,

(30:45):
And that can do a lot of things for people, right,
that can give them the sense of again a more
embodied sense of like, yeah, I actually know what to
do in the situation, right, a sense of like competency,
sense of safety, whatever it is that the client is
like working towards. And then from there what you can

(31:08):
do is future scenarios right with a client, and that
gives them like another experience of I know what to
do in this place. Right. So the end of E
MDR is just as important as like the middle phase
of it right, Okay, Yeah, because you really want to

(31:31):
give the brain and the whole system an experience of
knowing what to do right if those future situations were
to happen again.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Right, you want to kind of.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
What they say, like drivers ad for the emotional system.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
You totally think. I love that analogy. Absolutely, It's just
like let's do this drive again and again.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Right.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
But you know, and at that point, there's a lot
more joy is showing up. There's a lot more first,
there's like relief like.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, first I can deal with this, I can do this,
and this situation isn't bigger than me, it doesn't define
me all these things.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
Yeah, I can understand that.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
W Yeah, there's and I'm happy to as well, you know,
to provide resources that people can like look over and
just see and you know, yeah, anyone's curious.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Absolutely, yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
It seems like I mean, it's it's definitely doesn't seem
like it's a slow process. So people have to take
their you know, be be involved in.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
Something like E M D R therapy and I mean it's.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Just it reminds me myself personally of something that I
used to involve myself with hypnosis and and.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
I have to say that had great.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Benefits in itself, so I would assume that this therapy
process has wonderful benefits as well.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
So I for sharing that.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
And I do use induction, right, which is not hypnosis,
but induction is sort of like shaking hands with hypnosis, right,
that's to help people enter into a more relaxed state. So,
and the reason I do that is it's just a

(33:29):
better place to begin the sessions from right. And I'll
have a conversation with them beforehand. I know what the
target is. And when they're relaxed, I'll have them recall
the conversation we just had and I might use a
few keywords from there, and then they'll start the tapping

(33:50):
the bilateral.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
I can imagine, Wow, gets the soul shot getting ready
to go.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Well, we got some information packed up with the audience, y'all.
Thank y'all.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
See some of y'all comments in here, So thanks for
the viewers going there. Next segment, we got a little
bit of information for couples and well not necessarily couples,
but just overall relationships and how to deal with them
like that.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (34:21):
Somebody with relational trauma it closely resembles what you would
see in somebody with post traumatic stress disorder symptom wise,
you see hypervigilance, difficulty regulating emotion, a lot of interpersonal
difficulties could be through trusting somebody, feeling secure in relationships,

(34:48):
isolating and avoiding, fearing abandonment, a lot of fear, startle responses, insomnia.
I mean, it looks a lot like PTSD and it
stems from the interpersonal rupture that took place at some.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Point in time.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
Woo, they said a lot like PTSD.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Man, that sounds like those those bad toxic relationships definitely
need some therapy to get in your professional pion, What
is or I'll just ask you that generally your what
is relationship or relational trauma? And how does it typically
manifest in individuals?

Speaker 4 (35:42):
Oh my gosh, Yeah, such a big topic. And and
I think maybe I'll start with, like where relational trauma
I could potentially have an origin? Right, So we think
about we've sort of like come to think about relational

(36:03):
trauma as like the relationship we're currently in and something
is not working right, and there's a lot of maybe
a lot of chaos, a lot of anger, a lot
of avoidance, right, These are some of the things that
can show up when we're talking about relationships that are

(36:24):
not working right. And one of the theories, and one
of the theories that I really work with, is like attachment, right,
and that there are some ways that we can sort
of follow what is happening in a current relationship and
follow it back into our earlier relationships with our caregivers

(36:46):
and say that you know, the family that we grow
up and often models a template for relationships, right, right,
roles all of that right is getting in those early relationships.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
And your love.

Speaker 4 (37:03):
And when we are as adults, you know, entering into
a relationship, we typically don't talk about that, right. We
might talk about the things we loved about our family,
but we're really trying to put our best foot forward.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Right.

Speaker 4 (37:17):
We're trying to say, like, you can trust I'm a
trustable person. You know, you can be vulnerable, you can
be intimate with me, And we typically don't talk about
like who modeled love for us, right, and what that
template looks like and where there might have been rupture, right,

(37:38):
And so these ruptures can get and these sort of dances,
if you will, right, can get enacted in our adult
relationships with others, and there can sort of be a
lot of like mystery around why is this happening? Right,
and a lot of blame. Right when we're not aware

(37:59):
of where our own tendencies and our own pattern relational
patterns show up. We can like blame the other person,
we can blame ourselves, right, Like if I just if
if I'm just like more considerate or if I'm paying
more attention to this person, Right, They're they're gonna just

(38:19):
discover like how much value I have, right, and they're
gonna just treat me better. Right, that the way that
they're treating me must be a sign about my own value.
And we can we can learn that in our home
and if you know, we are not getting the attention

(38:43):
from you know, one of our primary caregivers, and we
learn that the way to get it is to like
make them happier, make sure that they're emotionally okay, We're
that's gonna feel like home when we meet somebody else
who is kind of has an orientation like that or
has like a demand of that from us, it's going

(39:06):
to feel like home.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
Right.

Speaker 4 (39:08):
We're not going to have a red flag. We're not
going to say you people talk about red flags, right,
which it's just going to be a flag or it'll
be like a flag for home, like, oh, I know
what to do here, right, And the problem there is
that it's not sustainable, right, It's not sustainable. But sort
of going back to the stories that we might begin

(39:30):
to form about why this relationship isn't working can again
cause a significant amount of distress, so you know, and
that's what we're talking about, like with PTSD and those
similarities there, right, Like I'm not able to stop thinking

(39:51):
about it, right, and I'm up hours of the night
trying to like figure out how to solve this, right,
But I don't necessarily the tools that I need to understand.
What are the underlying issues that are going on? What
are the dance moves in here? What are the dance

(40:12):
moods that I'm doing, and what are the dance moods
that the other person's doing.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Well.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
You mentioned overthinking and standing up, not being able to
sleep over things at night. What are some other common
signs that one might experience that exhibit that they have
relational trauma?

Speaker 4 (40:36):
Fear right, so, fear, fear of being abandoned, fear of
being left right, just really incredible anxiety about that, right withdrawal,
So not you know, feeling like other people are not

(40:57):
going to understand what's going on, or if I with them,
they're going to know it's my fault, even though it's
likely not to be right. But we can again have
the belief that we're somehow causing this other person to
behave in this really poor manner, right, this that we
don't like, right, and we can have a belief that

(41:18):
it's us and if we tell other people, they'll know.
And so isolation, right, not sharing with others, not going
out with others, right, depression, right of like I don't
it feels hopeless. I don't know what to do here. Again,
that's kind of a withdrawal as well, like a collapse inwards, right,

(41:40):
losing interest in things that were at one time like
enjoyable right one time you know had meaning to you,
just not participating in them.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
M hmm yeah, oh wow, I got a view of
those on the list. I need to check myself out.
Oh so, what role would you say? Attachment? The attachment
theory plays with understanding that the trauma.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
Yeah, and that one So I do I do work
with couples, and when I have worked with them sort
of like long enough and can see right that there
may be some attachment trauma in somebody's history, then I'll
give them a referral. I'll recommend that they work with

(42:29):
an individual therapist as well, or even take a break
from couple's counseling and like come back to it, depending
on what their needs are. Right, if it's a couple,
say a married couple, right, and because what my hope
is that will happen is that they'll get sort of

(42:50):
a better understanding about themselves and about the things that
they've learned, the things that we're taught to them, and
that from that they can get sort of a sense
of agency. Like, actually, that's not something I believe in,
and I'd rather move towards this. I'd rather be in

(43:12):
relationship this way. Right, If I get an understanding of
like where I am or where I've been in the past,
what's shaped me right in the past, where I am
right now, I'm able to like plot away to the future.
But if I don't know those coordinates, it's really hard
to do that. Right, But there's also the opportunity to

(43:37):
like heal some of those ruptures in relationship. But we
can only do that once we're aware of them, right,
and once we kind of know what's needed for them. Right.
So once we can like identify those patterns and like
really bring them out into the open, then we can

(43:58):
start talking about things that can help change those patterns, right,
things that people can practice together and in between sessions.
But in order for that to happen, right, a couple
of things are needed. So often you know, there's going

(44:19):
to be relational rupture, and that means that trust is
going to be damaged, right, And it's very challenging to
like build trust up and think about it like something
that we put in the bank.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Right.

Speaker 4 (44:34):
It takes us a long time to establish that, and
when somebody makes too many withdrawals, it's going to take
time again to establish that. And we need, you know,
consistency then to continue to build it up, and we
need effort and through that, you know, we can approach

(44:57):
forgiveness if that's reasonable, right. Sometimes that's not reasonable, right,
And yeah, and sometimes we may desire that from our partner,
but they're not willing to give it, right.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
It goes both ways.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Sometimes some things are just unforgivable, and sometimes it's just
not offered to be forgiven.

Speaker 4 (45:19):
Yeah, right, And so you know, we want to have
a way of like evaluating which situation we're in. Are
we in a situation with someone who says, yeah, I'm
not really like happy with things the way that they are,
and I can see my part in it, and I

(45:40):
can see my partner's pardon it, And I'm I'm willing
to do work, and I know it's going to be
hard work, right.

Speaker 6 (45:48):
Or.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
I'm I just I'm just going to stay where things are.
I'm you know, I'm gonna I'm not going to do
any work, and I just want things to stay the
way that they are, right. Or let's let's close this
relationship out right and move on to something where, uh
there where either we can get healing if the rupture

(46:12):
is you know, really awful, right, if it's been just
a lot of pain, right, or maybe the rupture is
just what it was meant to be. And we're looking
for tools to figure out the direction we want to
go in. What do we want how do we want

(46:33):
to show up in relationship both for ourselves and with others?

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Wow, man, amazing, I know there are a lot of
people who could definitely benefit those that information.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
Oh, we'll be.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Uh, there's this thing flipping on me out back there.

Speaker 4 (46:57):
Well, and I just want to.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
What was it?

Speaker 4 (47:03):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (47:03):
Yeah, And I just wanted to.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
Offer up, right, because I also think like disclosure can
be an important part of working with people. And so
when I first really discovered, you know, attachment theory and
then you know the model that looks at how those
like early attachment relationships can like reverberate up into our

(47:27):
present relationship. I remember a book. Unfortunately I don't remember
the title of it, but I it took me a
year to read, and there were many times where I
want to go in my backyard with a shovel and
just bury it under some dirt or burn it because
it was just difficult for me at that time too. Yeah,

(47:53):
just come in contact with that idea, right, it was
it was like, oh what could I do about it?
At the time, I didn't know. I just felt a
lot of sort of distress around that idea, right, like
a lot of adjustation. Like I said, I want to
bury the book. So, yeah, a lot of stuff I
was feeling.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
I can understand. Man, This is especially in the world
where you feel like you have.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Control and sometimes just got to throw your hands up.
Well in the likes that people do like you do,
you did mention the different scenario types of the first
recognizing the trauma. Is it trauma that we can recover from?
Is it trauma that we need to separate from, or
is the trauma that you know is a starting point

(48:40):
in the likes of a couple or a relationship, not
necessarily even a man and woman or a romantic couple
friendship wise, business wise, they all need these strategies. So
what are some effective strategies that could help rebuild trust
and intimacies and these relationships.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
Yeah, I would say sort of the first place I
would start with is like having some self like some
insight about the self, right, and it can it can
begin like with a uh, there's a simple tool that
I love, so I'm gonna, you know, provide that as
a resource. And it's called the window of tolerance. And

(49:22):
it basically, you know, we all have a window of tolerance.
And our window of tolerance is really describing like where
we're most effective, right, like this sort of like baseline
where we have like empathy for others, we have access
to that we have access to like what's going on

(49:43):
around us. We have access to like our own feelings, right,
our own thoughts. When we are exiting our window of tolerance,
we can go into sort of two states. One is
like highhypo arousal, right, and we'll exit the window of
tolerance when there's a significant amount of stress on us. Right,

(50:09):
So when there's conflict, for example, and hypo arousal is
again like collapsing and like going inward, right, And when
we go inward like that, we really can't hear what
the other person is saying, right, so we're not able
to give the attention we might otherwise to whatever the

(50:33):
conflict is, whatever the topic is. Right, hyper arousal, we
might become like very loud, very like animated, very much
in our emotional body, but we don't quite have access to,
you know, thoughts in the same way that we do
when we're in our window of tolerance. Right, And that's

(50:54):
just the resource I'm going to provide, will go much
more in depth into that, right. And if you know,
it's like if we can figure out for ourselves, right,
like what events take us out of the window of tolerance,
and like maybe how far out it takes us, we
can figure out what do I need to do, like

(51:16):
if something, you know, let's go from a scale of
like one to ten, right, like ten, I'm in outer space,
like I'm not going to hear anything, right, but people
can get that for it. I'm not admitted to anything,
but people can get that far out the window, right.
So but if it's a three right for me, I

(51:39):
might be able to get back in my window of
tolerance simply by going for a walk. I'm going to
walk around the block and I'm going to come back
in and I'm going to feel just more regulated just
from walking, right. And if I know that about myself
and I say this is sort of like similar enough
to like it's hitting a three for me, I could

(52:00):
say to that person, like I noticed when this happened
that I was starting to feel like agitated, right, and
starting maybe to think that you don't care about this.
And I'm not sure that that's true, but I do
know that I'm feeling agitated, and I'm gonna I'm going
to go for a walk. I'm going to like take

(52:20):
care of that so that I can come back and
give this, you know, conversation the attention that it deserves,
the attention I want to give it to so I
can be as present as needs be for whatever it
is we're discussing. Right, And you know a seven might

(52:42):
mean like I'm going to go visit, you know, my
sister for the night right, and I'm going to come back,
and I'm doing it because it's gonna it's going to
help me better attend to whatever the conflict is. Right,
It's not because I don't care about you. It's not
because I don't care about this thing that we're discussing,

(53:04):
but it is because I noticed I'm getting dysregulated and
I know what to do about it. So I'm going
to take care of that.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
Run run, run, So like I would.

Speaker 4 (53:18):
Start there right, like you know, we have like breathing
that we can do. But again, that's like letting the
other person know, like, oh, I'm starting to feel a
bit agitated, and i feel like I'm not going to
be able to be as present as I want to be,
and so I'm just going to take a break for

(53:40):
a few moments and then I'm going to come back in.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
It sounds like a lot of potential issues could come
from not recognizing that moment where you're a one out
of the window of tolerance. So you can't properly or
effectively address the situation the way it needs to be addressed,

(54:04):
so you don't even recognize you're out the window with tolerance.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
So you go ahead and try to address the situation.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
And you have all of this going on, and you
address it just totally wrong because you haven't addressed the
window of tolerance first.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
Wow, yeah, right, break it down?

Speaker 4 (54:22):
Yeah, and that and that happens, right, and you can
like but once you have the information, you know, you
can sort of like look back and say, oh, yeah,
ship okay, right, that happens the time. And that gives
us an opportunity for repair too, because then we're going
to come in and take some ownership, right of just

(54:44):
our role. Not we don't take ownership of the other persons,
and and we don't have to take ownership of how
they're feeling or any of those things, right right, take
ownership of our own responses, our own kind of reactivity
to it.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah, that's one thing that's a big thing about self accountability.
People are so fast to hold you accountable before they
hold themselves accountable.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
And it could.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Be a wonderful world if we could all just find
that space where we know we need to operate.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
Better and be better. But hey, we're doing.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
Our part here on mental health as well, just a
little bit every every Monday, seven pm, so stay tuned
in everybody.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
That's great.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
I appreciate you sharing all that wonderful information. It sounds
like I need to send a lot of people to
be clients. Where are you located if you don't mind
me asking what city? Also, okay, yeah, we'll have to
come up there. You guys get quite a bit of rain.
I believe in the Seattle area from what I understand.

Speaker 7 (55:52):
But but I also okay, Seattle is Washington State that's
close to Oregon, and that will get me up there
because I hear Oregon has one of the biggest marijuana surpluses.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
In the country.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
I believe that. Though I feel like Seattle's, you know,
holding its own.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
So all sucks, I might be okay, Seattle's coming up next. Well,
since our information was closely coupled with the term PTSD,
it came out from every direction looking up this these
topics today. So one part of mental health is wealth

(56:38):
is we do like to address physical health also, because
not only your mind and your body, but your money.
It all works together to make you the king and
queens that you should be. So today we have some
workout points for individuals.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Who might be experiencing PTSD. Let's check it out here.

Speaker 8 (57:06):
There are really common barriers to physical activity that everyone
experience are things like a lack of time, a lack
of resources, not knowing, having the right information or support motivation.
Those barriers are compounded or exaggerated in people that are
experiencing things like postramatic stress disorder. Physical activity and exercise
can play a really important role in the overall treatment

(57:28):
of someone with postramatic stress disorder. We know that when
physical activity is added to typical treatment, it can help
to improve people's overall recovery, reduce their symptoms, improve things
like sleep and energy levels, and also improve physical health
at the same time. What we do know is that
it's often people living with PTSD face additional barriers to

(57:51):
being physically active and actually commencing an exercise program.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
So it's really.

Speaker 8 (57:54):
Important we provide people with enough support so that they
can actually engage and commence and excess program and maintain
it for long term. It's what we know is that
the physical activity is we think of it like another
tool in someone's tool belt that someone can use to
help manage their day to day symptoms and also improve
their overall health and well being. It's not a cure

(58:15):
or a standalone treatment, but it's something that people can
use to try and improve their overall recovery and the
day they live in as well. So some of the
steps to people with PTSD can take in order to
start an next those program and things like talking to
their health professional, discussing with the case manager or the psychologists,
potentially an exercise didiologists as well, looking at simple ways
that they can incorporate more activity into their daily life,

(58:37):
so whether that be increasing their walking or their sport participation,
and also making sure they're writing down what they're doing
and keeping track of their overall activity levels so that
they can monitor change and progress over time. There's a
range of benefits that people can see, ranging improving symptoms
that symptoms of PTSD, symptoms of depression, anxiety, right through

(58:59):
to improve physical health and well being, and also things
like social engagement. You can often give people a reason
to get up in the morning and provide some structure
in the day. You can give people a sense of mastery.
When we learn a new skill and we start to
develop new skills and new strengths and see our body
changing and response to exercise as well. And really importantly

(59:20):
that goes just beyond since the weight loss, which is
one of the key things that people associated with exercise,
but actually the reason we want people exercise and is
for all those other benefits, those mood benefits. There's mental
health benefits, not just the changing body weight. For more
information on how to get started, visit Black Dog Institute
Exercise in Sports Science Australia or talk your email case manager.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
All right, well you don't have to research the stuff
from Australia. You can do that in America too, and
we have some guests from the UK last night, so
you can.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
Even do that all over the world. Don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Wherever you are in the world, go ahead, look up
those some exercises for some PTSD and get healthy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
There's some good stuff there. I need to get back
in the gym. You you you do.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
You suggest any workout regiments for any of your clients
to deal with your uh the couple with your therapy.

Speaker 4 (01:00:14):
Yeah, and typically like I, I am looking for low
hanging fruits. So walking like walking is fabulous. Right, it's
accessible to most people. Right, It depends on you're living, right,
because safety can be a factor to right, So that

(01:00:34):
that can be true for some of my clients.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Right because like me and bike riding, it's not safe
for me to ride bike where I am, but I
will I have to drive my five miles to go
bike ride.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
Yes, yeah, talk yeah, talking about that, like how where
can you get that in? Right? And the other thing
about walking is it's like bilateral movement, right, and so
it's a way of like continuing to process, very continuing
to process what those experiences and those insights are that

(01:01:07):
like show up right, and then yeah, it elevates the
mood typically, right.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
So right, working out makes me feel great?

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
Yeah, right, so that there's that benefit to it. Yeah,
So yeah, I generally start again with like the low
hanging fruit, which is walking.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Okay, great, great to know that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
I like when the information kind of matches up with
itself and I don't sound look stupid put it up.
I might do that here in this next segment. So last,
when not least, we're going to talk a little bit
about investing. When you're in a relationship with someone, so
you meet that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
That special someone rather be whatever your orientation.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
No, we don't talk about that much here, but yeah,
we have the term that a lot of people like
to use nowadays, car the power couple, you know, and
the power couple could mean many of different things. You
could mean that y'all out there just doing the thing
looking good together, mean that y'all traveling a lot doing
the thing together. I mean y'all making a difference in
the world through philanthropy and other ways. It also could

(01:02:15):
mean that y'all get into the bag. So if being
a power couple means that you're making the money, here
are some ways that you and your couple can start
to become financially wealthy. First, as a couple of three
pot strategy. Three pots meaning you pit your money up,
you don't put everything at one pot.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
You got some money over here to do the house stuff.
You got some money over here to do the fun stuff.
You got some money over here to make the growth stuff. Next,
you have invest in experiences, So that means, you know,
may or may not be a good or bad thing,
but a few you know what I'm saying, they had
the time share things going on you know what I'm saying,
Maybe avoid the time shares, but you got some other

(01:02:55):
investments that y'all can get into. And next you have
side hustle and dual. Of course, it's always good to
have a partner. Rather your hustle be photography.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Y'all like y'all modeling, or y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Like to sell candles, whatever the hustle is, it's always
too good to have a partner in your business.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Next, we have regular financial dates.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Not only making dates to handle your finances, but these
dates are you can have a milestone date.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
You know what I'm saying, by next month, we want
to have so much in the bank. You know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Set those expectations for yourself, and it's easy to have
the dates down so you can hit those goals on time.
All to make your savings. That is the one thing
for me. I split my money up so much. And
on every debit card I have, there's a feature that
every time I swipe my card that either buy stocks,
send money to my savings, or it goes into another

(01:03:52):
account that helps me pay bills.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
I use that religiously.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
It cannot go wrong with automatic and you know adult now,
so you can do your automatic bill paid too, go ahead,
stead up, complete to save, compete. I think that's compete
to say, you know what I'm saying, but we're gonna
use both of them.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
Compete and complete to save.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
You know what I'm saying. Make sure you hit those goals.
Whenever you make a five thousand for the trip, or
one thousand dollars to go out to eat for a month, whatever.
I don't know, I eat a lot, don't blame me.
Invest in education early on, especially when you're having kids together.
When your child is born, there's a great time to
start throwing pennies into an account. By the time they

(01:04:34):
hit eighteen twenty one years old and decide what they
want to do with your life. Your child got a
whole nest egg to just go out and live with.
Can't be mad at that. Investing in each other's dreams.
Maybe you don't have the side hustle of duo. Sometimes
maybe y'all just gotta say, hey, I'll support you, you
support me, and y'all go out and make it happen.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
Last and not least. We have the gratitude jar.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
You can have different rules for the gratitude jar every
time somebody says a b that word every time somebody
does something nice for each other.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
Every time y'all have.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Another milestone that you achieve together, throw some money into
that gratitude jar, and then when that thing fill up,
y'all go out and have a wonderful time.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
You don't even have to wait for Valentine's Day.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Hey, So good ways to invest, and I'm big on
stocks myself. So another way is dividends stocks, and this
breaks down what you would need to throw into each
stock to receive one thousand dollars in dividends.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
Pfizer, you only need fifteen point six thousand.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
I mean, I mean, it seems like a lot of money,
but when you're doing an extra saving, you know what
I'm saying, you can throw that money and make it
work for you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
For Google, you need.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
A whole two hundred and twelve thousand, zero point seven thousand.
That is, to get one thousand dollars in dividends. Google
ain't paying y'all nothing, So yeah, avoid buying good stock.
That's my suggestion for any couples out there to be
trying to become financially wealthy. Do you incorporate any of

(01:06:09):
those into your your personal spending and living.

Speaker 4 (01:06:15):
I was taking notes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Well, don't be afraid to set up that bill pay,
the automatic bill pay. You'll be surprised at yourself when
it actually goes through every month.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
You be like, hey, I'm doing good.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
I'm fairly financially responsible.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Maybe a little more.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
Yeah, Pfizer caught my attention when you said that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
All right, do I need to throw that clip that
slided back up there so you can catch a couple
more off. We'll throw that up there for the people,
just y'all can catch nothing more. I make sure I
send that to your inbox if you.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
Are interested in looking up some more of those figures.
But for people, definitely go ahead and looked up.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
And before you invest in anything anything, I'm going to
tell you phramatically, do your research. Please make sure it's
a good investment for you. Make sure that that investment
is not going to take you out of paying your
regular bills on a timely basis. Things like that. But
don't be afraid to throw some money. And remember always

(01:07:20):
investments come with the risk. There's no risk without reward.
But hey, you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
Gotta take it to get the time time again.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Chantelle, thank you, thank you, Thank you so much for
joining us today and letting me pick your brain and
sharing that wonderful information.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
With our audience.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
I know there is at least six point seven million
people in Saint Louis, Missouri who can benefit from that information,
and I know I've had a few of them tuned in.
But We're gonna spread the word, make sure a lot
more of you out there. Is there anything you want
to let the people know that you have coming up,

(01:07:58):
or any.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
Books you're any I love books. Tell them your author.

Speaker 4 (01:08:03):
Well, I'm more of a poet.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
Okay, okay, but I.

Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
Have been talking, yeah about potentially doing a book. It's
a It's a nice way to sort of summarize things
for people because I do. There's a lot of stuff
that I do on repeats. I've been thinking of the
book might help with some of that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Okay, Okay, you would you want to spit a piece
for us today?

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
I would.

Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
It's gonna it'll take me just a moment to pull
it up, even though it's very short.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
So okay, well, if you want to do that, I'll
just cover our atro.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
And let you end up with that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
So for all those again, thank you for listening today
to Mental Health is Well, the podcast where we explore
a connection between your mental well being and financial success.
I hope you enjoy today's episode and learn something new.
I know I learned a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
I was sitting here taking notes.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
I got the you know what I'm saying, the chaos,
the anger, the avoidance, the attachment, the family models, the
window of tolerance complex.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
I was learning some stuff today, So I know y'all
learned something. If you haven't, Do you have any questions, comments,
or feedback. Please don't be scared to reach out to us.
You can email us at the Playground TV at outlook
dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
Leaver's Review.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
We like to know what you think about us, even
if you don't like us. You know what I'm saying,
It's all love. We love to hear from you either way.
Appreciate the boy. Remember you're not alone in your journey,
and your mental health is your greatest asset. Until next time,
stay healthy, stay wealthy, and stay tuned.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
You got that piece ready for us. I love it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:44):
It's not necessarily the one I was looking for, but okay,
get birth to my pain from the belly and below
it rose shaken to the core, firebreath propelled an arrow,
cleansed by the heart and out repeat.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
All right now, so it's cleaned by the blood and out. Ay,
I understand it. I understand You're gonna have to get
you around on the last Mike standing. We poets are
it's a big.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
Market for poets here in Saint Louis.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
I didn't know it until I started going out to
search form, but they're like, it's some some with poetry
every single day in this city.

Speaker 4 (01:10:27):
I promise that's amazing. So I might have to come.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Up to come on. Let us know when you're on
the way. We make sure we rolled out the red
coppee for you.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
Okay, thank you so much for this opportunity, uh, to
just talk and to like share.

Speaker 3 (01:10:42):
I really appreciate it, absolutely, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
I appreciate you more than you know, especially, I mean,
I love getting more information your wonderful spirit, great energy,
and uh, I.

Speaker 3 (01:10:53):
Hope we get to do it again, you know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
Another part doesn't sound bad to me, all right, And
I'm sorry for the viewers with this. This is my
favorite video that we end up with. I'm gonna find
another one pretty soon, but I just can't get over
this I mean I love the Lord.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
Sorry, I dedicate this song.

Speaker 9 (01:11:17):
To recession depression.

Speaker 6 (01:11:24):
There was no sunshine clouds and it start in my
heart and it feels like a cold night where a

(01:11:46):
love and joy that you promised to.

Speaker 9 (01:11:49):
Tell me so right, I'll be honest with you.

Speaker 6 (01:11:54):
Mostly can fell from head and like a shower when I.

Speaker 9 (01:12:04):
Think comes the better I'm gonna be when this is over.

Speaker 6 (01:12:08):
Even though I see I smile, God, it's.

Speaker 9 (01:12:12):
Like bah blah, what you do I smile? Come on,
smile So.

Speaker 6 (01:12:22):
I'm forgetting down show.

Speaker 10 (01:12:25):
I hate to sing again down God's people so much
like just smile so sod.

Speaker 9 (01:12:34):
Every day gonna be fun, but it's student from me today.
Don't have to come today.

Speaker 6 (01:12:42):
But there is no sun shine. Lucked them a clown
and it stuff in the hot and it feels like
a cold night.

Speaker 9 (01:12:51):
It ain't easy, but today.

Speaker 6 (01:12:55):
You tell me wherever about?

Speaker 9 (01:12:58):
Where is that love?

Speaker 4 (01:12:59):
Yo?

Speaker 6 (01:13:00):
Hello? That browns me?

Speaker 5 (01:13:02):
Tell me all right.

Speaker 9 (01:13:05):
The truth?

Speaker 6 (01:13:07):
Almost Steve Power can't.

Speaker 9 (01:13:12):
Go with yall from the shower.

Speaker 3 (01:13:17):
I know we her child, but still.

Speaker 9 (01:13:21):
Come home sto still stop.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Down.

Speaker 6 (01:13:38):
Should hate to say.

Speaker 9 (01:13:39):
It again down because people will us so much your side.
Can you just swell whatever you're in right now, smile

(01:14:06):
you just and people say.

Speaker 6 (01:14:14):
Feelings understand.

Speaker 10 (01:14:21):
Understand I say, killings understand you and why you're waiting us?

Speaker 4 (01:14:29):
Yeah, and why you praying?

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
Look in the.

Speaker 9 (01:14:34):
Mirror always remember this must almost but it goes power your.

Speaker 10 (01:14:48):
Hang out, herships difficultiess his door.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
This is what I do.

Speaker 9 (01:15:00):
Whatever feels good. It's like all things are working. Still,
stop HOLLI yourself. I know it's hard right now, because
you're a winner.

Speaker 3 (01:15:21):
You look better.

Speaker 10 (01:15:24):
Jealous, New Orleans, come Cleveland, Detroyers.

Speaker 9 (01:15:40):
Jersey, Hellen.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
All the people say, I just don't want you to
be happy, Then you gotta have something happened there.

Speaker 3 (01:15:56):
I want you to have joy.

Speaker 9 (01:15:58):
Because hen't nobody take that fun? I see you smart,