Peyote Secrets & Vision Quest Wisdom: DR. TOM PINKSON’s Sacred Teachings to Awaken Your Soul

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Dare to Dream. I'm Debbie.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
It's a pleasure to be here with you, and today
my guest is doctor Tom Pinkson, psychologist, ceremonial leader and
apprentice of hue Chold Shamans. Here to share indigenous wisdom,
sacred teachings of Peyote, and the transformational power of vision
quest to awaken your soul and reconnect you with the

(00:27):
spirit of Earth. Dare to Dream podcast won three Talk
Radio Positive Change Awards, the COLVR Award for Best Podcast.
Welt Magazine named Dare to Dream one of the top
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can find us on YouTube, Spotify, Rumble, and if you

(00:50):
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including BBS Radio. The show is answered by doctor Dane
here and Access Consciousness. They do energy work out in
the world and you can become a facilitator or you
can take one of their classes. Go to doctor Dane

(01:11):
here h e e R dot com. How about unlocking
your cosmic potential with a phenomenal free star seed video
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(01:32):
star lineage and celestial ancestry. Now get your free gift,
go to Debbie Dashinger dot com slash star Seed. That's
d ebb I, D A C H I N G
E R dot com slash star Seed. Also, I was
interviewed for a second time on Guya TV. Please check

(01:54):
out my interview with George Nori on Beyond Belief, talking
a lot about the subject that Tom and I are
going to talk about today, which is shamanism and shaman's
all over the world from the beginning of time. And
if you don't yet have Gaya TV, allow me to
give you a gift of a free one week subscription.
You can go to Debbi Dashinger dot com slash Gaya

(02:18):
that's Gaia. And finally, I am doing an offering monthly
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and thus far they have been free. They won't remain
free forever, but right now for me to reach as

(02:41):
many people as possible with this work is really what
the point is all about So go ahead and sign
up either for the star Seed Gift or just go
to Debbie Dashinger dot com slash gift and sign up
on my website, because then you'll be getting notifications when
these offerings roll out you can join.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Well.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
My guest today is Tom Pinkson, a PhD trans personal psychologist.
For over sixty years, Tom has been committed to reconnecting
people with the wisdom principles of nature and their own
true nature, infinite, unconditional light and love. He completed an

(03:22):
eleven year apprenticeship with Hue schol Shamans and has been
doing vision quests for over fifty years. He's been a
pioneer in bridging the space between ancient and indigenous wisdom
traditions to address the challenges of the times. He helped
start the first at home hospice program in the United

(03:44):
States and work with children with life threatening illnesses for
over thirty years. Created successful wilderness treatment modality Wow This
is Amazing for Heroin Addics, and is the founder of
a new Vision of Living foundation the Spiritual Community.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Of walk On.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Is an author of numerous books, leads fire ceremonies, and
co hosts the Shamanic Sunday's podcast with his older daughter.
And I also want to point out his book that
I just read, The Psychedelic Shaman The Wisdom Warriors Path
to Transformation. If you would like to get your copy,

(04:27):
you can do so on Amazon and all made your
book outlets. If you like to learn more about Tom,
go to New Vision of Living dot org. And with that,
I welcome Tom to the Dare to Dream Show.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
It is so good to have you here.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you and listenings
to all the listeners excellent.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, I want to just start where we started a
few minutes ago. You said I just finished a firesome ceremony.
I mean, what a beautiful bio. By the way, how
much of us you've been, how many pockets you've found
to assist various places in humanity. So thank you for
your good work, and tell us about the fire ceremonies

(05:12):
that you're doing.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
And offering.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
One of the assignments. When I finished my eleven year
apprenticeship from my spiritual grandmother, Guadeloupe is now in the
spirit world, she said that the people in the north
have forgotten that the fire is alive. It's conscious that
it's an intelligence, it's a transmitter of wisdom guidance from

(05:39):
the universe if we open ourselves with humility and attention
and can give us the kind of guidance we need
to create responses to the challenges of today from a
source of wisdom that comes from the universe rather than
our egos or our rational minds. So she said, you
have her. I have a responsibility to go back up

(06:03):
north and give people opportunity to come sit with which
as call the spirit of the Fire, which they believe
is the first Shaman, the first comedy, the first shaman.
Talk to Wadi grandfather fire spirit. To bring people into
a situation where you're able to sit with some introductory

(06:24):
rituals to what I call intimatize the relationship with the
spirit of the fire, connect consciously, attune and enter into
a period of communion with the spirit of the fire.
Having fed the fire initially with some bassora garbage that

(06:45):
doesn't serve your life, so an opportunity to give to
the fire judgments, guilt, shame, thought, forms of limitation of
negativity and earn anything that clogs your pipes, give it
to the fire in a ritual ceremony which opens the
doorway to the purification. Letting go for entering into a
period of than silence after some medicine songs to help

(07:08):
with that attumin process. Let's just sit in the silence
for last night. We did it for about forty five
minutes outside around this beautiful fireplace, under a beautiful sky,
with the stars and the trees, and let's just listen
and see what we get. Let's listen with the full
dimension of our interdimensional being. Let's listen with the fullness

(07:31):
of all of that, see what we get from that listening,
and then go around the circle. And since we're all
different openings to the mystery, we all have a different sensitivity,
and none's better than anybody else, and nobody's more important
than anybody else. But the opportunity to sit in the
silence with this elder to see what wisdom guidance it

(07:53):
might give us in some level of our being, and
then to share go around the circle and share what
came through. And so that's what we did. And it
was about twenty five people. And there's just some people
I knew, some people have been in previous fire ceremonies.
Some people came for the first time. Some people came
with friends and friends, and the richness of what's shared

(08:15):
as we go around the circle from the very simple
thing of let's just sit in a respectful, humble, receptive
way with this elder, pay attention to what happens, what's
the truth of what we experience, and then to share that.
The richness of that and the profoundness of it is
very touching good medicine. That's what we did last night.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, that sounds pretty beautiful, I have to say. And
I love this idea of feeding the fire Hucha. You
know you're dark, heavy dense energy and what no longer
serves you, that you're able to give it up and
that it loves to mulch what doesn't serve us or
the planet. And you mentioned the Wheachol people. So what

(09:03):
Tom initially drew you to the Wheachol? How did you
even come across who they were and the opportunity to
work with them and do an eleven year apprenticeship. How
did they accept you and know that you would be
somebody who would really stick with it.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Well, the answer to that goes back to I guess
it would be nineteen sixty six, when after a year
of preparation. I was an undergraduate student at San Francisco State,
and so I came up from La Junior College in
LA in sixty five, right into the versioning renaissance of
the Hippie movement. I was fueled by psychedelics, and so

(09:47):
I was coming from political activist, cynical, bitter, constricted, angry,
self righteous place ego identified because that's all I knew,
and I was interested in the unconscious, and so LSD's
all around. I'm hearing all these experiences. And so after
a year of preparation, I went ahead and had an

(10:09):
experience in a safe setting with people I trusted or
knew what they were doing, and three transformational visions came through.
One of which was seeing a vision on the ceiling
of the third story walk up and they hate Ashbury,

(10:30):
where I lived at the time, of a panorama of
an ancient Messo American life. And I was seeing it
in the symbols, the symbolic visualseness of when you look
at the paintings of Messo American life. I was seeing
it all alive and breathing. And so I've seen babies

(10:52):
being born and mothers nursing their children, and children growing
up and playing and becoming adolescents and adults and working
in the fields and finding a partner and a mating
and babies being born, and people growing old and dying,
and just the cycles of it over and over again.
It's beautiful. And the feeling was, you're seeing something you've

(11:16):
experienced here, and there'll be a time when you come
back to this, and it's not for you to go
seek it out, go on with your life. We'll let
you know. So I took all of that in, transformed
by the beauty of it and the gratitude of it.
And fifteen years later I heard about through a friend,

(11:41):
the opportunity to join a small group of grangos connecting
with the ritual pilgrimage three hundred miles to where the
Peodi grows and to gather in a ceremonial way with
the guidance of the shaman, and these weeks preparation in

(12:01):
the village, and as you travel, every place you stop,
you're doing ceremonies, and then finally arriving at the holy
Landkuta where the parody medicine grows, and ingesting it in
the ceremonial way, and I knew about the Tweetch holes
because the opening from the LSD in nineteen sixty six.

(12:25):
Then I began to read the literature and pursue whatever
openings came into my awareness of learning about other cultures
and how they work with sacred plants from other Earth.
And so I knew about the Oech holes. And when
I heard from this friend of mine, he knew someone
who had married in to the tribe, gone through their

(12:47):
own initiations, and was living in one of the ranchos
in the mountains of the Sierra Mounts Atteca, and the
wich Old people, I might mention, live so far up
in the mountains that when the Spanish Conquistadorius came in
and killed the people for their practicing their religion, they
were high enough in the mountains, and it was more

(13:08):
so difficult terrain. They pretty much survived all of that.
And so we're able to continue the generational wisdom passed
on through the decades, through the millennia whatever following the
right relationships from spirit about how to live in harmony
and balance with the land and with all of creation,
that everything's alive and conscious. And so when I heard

(13:31):
this news of the opportunity at this man who'd married
into the mutual tie was going to take a very
small group of gringos on the pilgrimage led by the shaman.
It was what I experienced fifteen years earlier, kind of
erupted from the underground and said, this is it, this
is it, this is what you need to go on,
And so I did. And I had no idea what

(13:53):
I was getting in for. This was I think eighty one.
I've been doing vision quests for aer of years and
work with indigenous people UH from from United throughout the
United States, but I hadn't been to Mexico to work
with any of the people down there, So it was
a new experience. I didn't know fully what I was

(14:14):
getting into. And a couple of years into it, at
where he quote after an all night ceremony with the peote,
that shaman asked, is there anyone willing to commit to completion?
Which means five years of going on the pilgrimage UH
And during the during those time of the year, there's

(14:34):
certain prescriptions about your behavior, what you have to do,
what you have to not do, and if you mess up,
you have to start over. And so it's it's very
demanding and so he asked, is there anybody willing to
commit to the completion, and not not even knowing what
it entailed. Something came up inside of me, it said,

(14:55):
everybody else was I think there are one or two
other gringoes that that that was responded with an affirmative.
The rest didn't, and it came up strong in me
to say, yes, I'm gonna make this commitment, even though
not knowing what I'm fully committing to really, And that's
how the doorway opened. And so the people saw the

(15:17):
shaman saw when I continued, I was the only one
of those three who said they would work to complete
and when they saw it, especially Guadalupe, who I became
very close with over the years, that I was there
not just to take, but to give, and was there
in a respectful and humble way. And I was there

(15:38):
to serve and help in whatever ways I could, and
to learn and to honor what I was given and
fulfill the assignments that Shaman gave me for the time
when I was back here living with my family in
the States, and then I'd come back the next year
and for the next pilgrimage. So that went on for
five years, and after that they said, well, you need

(15:59):
to do an other one. Watchels do uh do five?
But you you know you're not weach Al and it's
not about you trying to become wa Shaw. It's trying
to help you become who you're here to be, and
so you need to do another one. I say, okay,
And so then I went ahead and did that, which

(16:20):
which culminated in a very powerful initiation experience in the
Rancho when I returned, and then I continued on afterwards.
After I completed that that I guess you could say,
got my degree, you know, graduated from the program. Because
it was so powerful for me, I wanted to keep going,

(16:43):
and there were other people who wanted to join me.
That small groups of people I took down to work
with the chall Shamans, and I continue that for six, seven, eight, nine, ten,
five more years, and then Guadalupe died crossed over, and
that was kind of there wasn't somebody that I respected

(17:05):
and was connected with. It stepped into the expressions pick
up her bundle and carry it on. So that's why
it was eleven years.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Eleven years.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Regarding your eleven year apprenticeship with their shamans, what was
the most outstanding experience for you with the wheech Old
shamans that you can share.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
Well, there was not just one, there was many. So
let me just take a moment and see which one
wants to come out right now? Okay, Yeah, By the way,
I want to thank you for having me on here
and the good work you do and the opportunity is

(17:51):
for me to meet you and hear about your work
and as an elder to be able to support you
and the work you're doing, because that's one of the jobs,
one of the responsibilities of it of an elder that
I learned about with the weet Eels and with other
indigenous people around the world. I've studied with that. Thank you,
whatever you you've been given in your life and blessed
to give, don't take it to the grave with you,

(18:12):
but make sure you find ways of passing it on
to the next generation, because that's the way, that's the
way it works. Okay. So on the hunt for the
what's called the hunt for the sacred Peyote cactus rose
in the desert of Wirrikuta that the shaman leads. So
everybody's out looking in the desert and the peote rows.

(18:35):
It's not a cactus that grows upward but stays flat
on the desert floor, and the color blends in perfectly
with the colors of the rocks and the sand and
what's there in the desert there, So it's you can
be you can you can be standing right on peyote
and have it all around you and not see it
if you're not in tune. So we're out hunting. I

(18:58):
think this was maybe the second our third pilgrimage. Everybody
scatters out and this is the whole extended family if
we chose and the rancho goes on this pilgrimage. So
you have you have the elders and your aunts and uncles,
and you have the couples, and you have the teenagers,
and you have the children, you have the nursing babies
and everybody. And so everybody fans out in the desert

(19:22):
under the guidance of the shaman to search for the medicine,
gather it all up in the ceremonial way, bring it
back to sit and circle around tonta water, eat the
fire spirit, clean that medicine, and then after a blessing
from a shaman, and then you start eating it. You
don't eat any of it until the salmon blesses it
all and then feeds it to you. So, as we're

(19:44):
out hunting for the medicine, I suddenly see one, a
big it's called Grandfather, that has something in the middle
that I've never seen before, a beautiful, pink, white flower
in the middle, And I was so struck by the
beauty of it and the surprise of it, and I
just felt, this is so beautiful. I want to I

(20:04):
want to take it home with me. I just that
was my initial response to it, spontaneous response. And then
of course I realized, well, number one, you can't take
that back through the border because you'll get arrested. It's
against the law and the insanity of our eurocentric culture

(20:25):
about how threatening eating sacred plants are, the open consciousness
to see the hypocrisy and the toxicity of many of
our societal ways. It's very threatening, and so it's outlawed jails,
so you can't bring it back that way. Plus, even
if you could, by the time you get home, the
flower would have, you know, already blossomed and dived away

(20:48):
and released, and so it wouldn't be there anymore. And Okay,
so what what what options do I have here if
any And so I listened to the guide and said, well,
I could eat it. I could do to eat it.
So I didn't know if that was respectful or not
in the tradition. So I went and asked one of
the elders if it was okay for me to do
that or not. And all the elders are always saying eat,

(21:11):
go ahead and eat, go ahead and eat more. The
more you eat, the more you'll learn. So I went
back and said my prayers of gratitude, and after the
shaman had blessed the medicine, and I went ahead and
ate that peyote with the flower in it. And then
several hours later, now after we've all finished gathering, we're

(21:32):
all sitting around the fire and entering into an all
night ceremony that the shaman leads where where you're ingesting
medicine the whole night and you're sitting in silence, you're dancing,
you're praying, they're singing. It's just beautiful under the star
studded sky and the wilderness desert high desert, six thousand
feet elevations, gorgeous. So in this state it's called them paotado.

(21:56):
Under the influence all of a sudden, I see my
eyes closed on the inner plane. I see a vision
of myself and my heart, and I see this beautiful
pink white flower that I saw in the peote. I
see it. It's in my heart. I see it is
vibrating there such beauty, and as I watch it, I'm surprised.

(22:17):
When I'm watching it, it suddenly divides in two. Oh interesting,
and those divide into and those divide into and it
just keeps going to My whole heart is filled up
with these beautiful pink white flowers, which I realize is
the energy of love. These are the flowers which will

(22:40):
word for flowers as tutus. So these are the two twos,
the flowers of Waikuta blossoming in my heart, giving me
an energetic, felt sense and visual image of what infinite,
unconditional love is. So it takes me into a bliss state.
I'm just bliss experiencing all of this. But that reproduction continues,

(23:01):
and they keep dividing until my heart's filled up. And
so then what there? It goes outside of my chest
and it starts flying through my body, reproducing until my
whole body being is filled with this blissful beautiful dutus
wrikuta trus vibrating love, infinite, unconditional light and love. Bodies

(23:24):
filled up and they're still reproducing, but there's no more
room in my body. So now what So I hear
the guidance from spirit. It says, now you have the
opportunity to open your heart and be a channel for
this healing light and love that I've filled you with
and sending it out into the world, sending it out
to your family, sending it out to your ancestors, sending

(23:45):
it out to wherever your heart guides you. Just send
it to be a channel for this healing light and love,
because that's what you're here to do.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
That is a gorgeous story.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
And I just I'm not an artist by any means,
but if I was, I would create a picture of that.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
I would paint that for you, image of.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
The flowers reproducing, reproducing, reproducing, and all about.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
The heart, the heart.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
It almost feels like when I listened to this, the
flowers were honored that you took them in to you
and then they gave you back this medicine of we're
here for love. But now that you've received the love,
now it's your job to also send the love out.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, it's very profound.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
Let me offer you an invitation, and of course you're
free to do with it whatever you want. But a
moment ago you said you're not an artist, So I
think everybody's an artist. So I would invite you to
take that thought form of limitation and throw it in
the fire, because that kind of energy transmuce it into

(24:54):
more shealing light and love and sends it back to us,
and give yourself permission to do exactly what. And here
I'm suggesting it as if it's so you listen in
your integrity and see what it brings up for you.
Let go of the label you're not an artist, and
give both of us by making a drawing of what

(25:15):
you see with the flowers of those love flowers blossoming
in the heart, and send it to me.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Oh, and that is such a great idea.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
I will do exactly that at my next fire ceremony,
and I will be doing several coming up. That's so great,
any kind of limiting thought for anyone who's listening that
you think I'm this, I'm not that. Yeah, that's very good.
Mulch for the fire, very good and so peote is

(25:45):
one of the medicines I've never done, but I've done many.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Is it correct that that's a heart opener?

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Well, I think out of respect for the mystery, sacred
mystery that that we live in and it lives in us,
I think it's important about making general statements about anything,
because in the mystery, ten people can take peyote or
cyawasco or mushrooms or whatever and have it hard o

(26:18):
an experience, and one person can have an experience it's
that's very difficult and challenging, holds great potential for healing
if they know how to work with it's skillfully, but
it's not heart opening. Instead, it's taking them into the
impact of the wounds and the undigested energetic material that's
stuck in the pipes from those wounds that clogs them

(26:39):
up with fear, guilt, shame, thought forms of negativity, and
into experiencing that because we don't have power to change
what we don't face the truth of and and and
look into the truth of it accepted. So to be
able to say heart opening experience, as within any medicine,

(27:04):
it certainly has that potential to do that. And I
think ultimately all the medicines, the psychoactives and sacred plant medicines.
Mother Earth gives those two us to help us wake up,
to help us to see how we fall in asleep
and to the illusion that we're separate egos and we
are our bodies and our ego stories. The plants are

(27:26):
and from that place. But based on that perception of separation,
which is an illusion, comes fear and anxiety and ultimately
violence towards to perceived others that are threatening, all coming
from that illusion of perception of separation. So the medicines
are coming from this is my understanding of it, coming
from other Earth to help us wake up to know

(27:49):
you're not a separate thing. You're more than your physical body.
You're more than your ego, you're more than your ego stories.
You're way more than that. That way more is connected
to everything else because there's no such thing as separation.
And so when the plants help us open to when
they do to the truth of our sacred unity, then

(28:19):
life becomes an opportunity to work the challenges that can
close our hearts down and constrict us into that ego identity.
To wake up, remember that there's more to us. Than that,
and get on with the honoring what I call honoring
and walk what the Wagel's call walking the heart path
to completion in your life with our purpose and being here.

(28:40):
So the plants are coming forward when we come to
them in a respectful way and create a respectful relationship
with the spirits and the plants to help us wake up.
And that wake up process might take us into what
feels like hell, realms of fear and anxiety and tear
up of dynamics of energy going on inside of this

(29:04):
that we haven't faced that are in our shadow. So
to say it automatically, there's no sense thing it's going
to it's automatically going to open your your heart absolutely,
But what's automatically going to happen is if you surrender
to it, you're going to have an experience. But recognize
you're opening a doorway to deeper consciousness, deeper levels of unconsciousness,

(29:25):
higher consciousness, and you don't know what's going to come through.
You're not in charge of that, so it takes courage
to enter into it. And it's because you don't know
what's going to come through, and it can be scary
that it's important to do the work with people who
know what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
M Yeah, that makes total sense. I mean, watch him
is the same way. It's a heart it is a
heart opener. But I mean when I first started doing
quot juma, it was not opening my heart. There was
a lot of stuff coming out of me. And it
may have been the masculine trauma in my lineage, but
it was not enjoyable. But after quite some time of

(30:01):
doing it, it then was. And same thing with ayahuasca,
I have to say, because a lot of people have
asked me about that who've never done it, and they
want to know, they want to know, they want to know,
and it's like I can only say if you are
called I mean, I do think it's important to be
called to it. But if you're called to it, you're
doing the right thing. You're answering something that your soul
is interacting with, and then you do have to surrender

(30:24):
because it's going to be whatever the experience is meant.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
To be for you.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
And I mean I've done ayahuasca twenty five times and.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
It's never been the same, never been the same.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
It's always been a completely different journey, and so much
has to do with the medicine and the facilitator or
shaman or where I'm at, And there's a lot of
factors that come into the healing work with medicine. So
I do really understand what you're talking about, and thank
you for that. How did your relationship with Guadalupe de

(30:59):
la Cruz, the renowned Wheachol that you've been telling us about,
How do Guadalupe shape your journey and your responsibilities as
a bridge between these cultures Gringo and the Wichole.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
I think the most important teacher in our lives, like
Buddha and many others said, is our direct experience and
to be able to be with a Madison person and
watch not just what they do in ceremony, but watch
how they live their lives, how they how they do

(31:40):
they honor those values that that are part of the ceremony.
Do they honor, do they live in integrity or not?
So I always watch, not open and listen to what
a person says, but I also watch what they do.
I also watch how how they live. And so there

(32:00):
were other shamans that I worked with, one who was
very powerful, the initial shaman, very powerful, but she wasn't
coming from the heart. So I learned from her. I
learned and saw her power and learned from her. But
when I met Guadalupe a couple of years into the
pilgrimage that I experienced, she's this woman, this person is

(32:25):
coming from her heart, all heart medicine. And I saw
her love for the children. She wasn't able to have
children herself. I saw that she would how she would
look into my heart, in other people's heart and see
where they see where they were at, and and when
she saw the person was sincere. She was always there helping.

(32:45):
Sometimes she could be sharp and in busting somebody and
doing something that wasn't in the right relationships, but always
from the heart, everything from the heart. And I saw
that she lived her she lived the values of actual relationship,
again not just in ceremony, but in just the ordinary
activities of the day. And so gradually my appreciation for

(33:11):
her grew as I watched her and experienced what she
brought through and ceremony, and I would just and I
felt so thankful to be in relationship with her that
I just made myself available for whatever I can do
to support you, whatever I can do to help you
on whatever level. Driving her to doctor's appointments or buying

(33:35):
food or to supply her and people in the rancho.
Whatever it is I could, I could do. And so
she saw an experience my willingness to give in a
way out of my love for her and appreciation for
the incredible grift she was sharing with me. She would

(33:57):
open up and share more and I'd learn more. And
so it's a and that relationship. Even though she crossed
in the spirit world many years ago, the relationships still continues.
I call her presence into UH. I'll be doing a
medicine journey this weekend. Call her presence in fire ceremony
last night, call her spirit in and some people can

(34:20):
feel and get an experience of her coming through. So
relationships continue. And I'm very thankful for my spiritual grandmother Buadeloupe.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, she sounds amazing. Can you describe a pivotal moment
or lesson from your apprenticeship that profoundly shaped your understanding
of healing or spirituality?

Speaker 3 (34:42):
Well, certainly the UH, the experience I share the vision
with the flowers of the of the heart is all
about healing what what stands in the way of We
don't have to ask for love because the essence of
our being is love. We are love and our love

(35:04):
is forgiving. That's what all the years of visionary and
vision quest experience teach me as as the true reality.
We are love. So if we're not experiencing that love
that is inside of us, then and we're suffering because
if our hearts are closed because of the wounds of
our lives or thought forms of negativity or limitation or

(35:26):
guilt or shame or general our hearts are closed in
our and we're i entified just with our ego and
its stories, then there's it's a constriction on who and
what we really are, and we're suffering or in one
way or another. So the visionary work provides opportunity for

(35:49):
us to be able to go see what's the causes
of my suffering, go down to the roots of the
causes of my suffering because we don't have power to
change what we don't see is as I mentioned before.
But when I do see the suffering I create for
myself through that limited identification with my ego and it's

(36:13):
stories that constrict my heart shut me down like, well,
I'm not an artist like you said before. Not true.
Maybe I was kicked out of chorus class in eighth
grade because my voice wasn't good enough to be in
the chorus. So therefore I'm not a singer, and I was,

(36:34):
I have not been. The truth is I've not been
blessed with a great voice or a great year to hear,
whether I'm in tune or not. But what I've been
blessed with is I love to sing. I love to sing,
gives me joy to sing. So I had to overcome.
The medicine helped me overcome the constriction I put on myself.
I'm not a singer to where I shut down on

(36:56):
something that gives me joy to do for me any
years shame and shut down and constricted. So the medicine
help me see that, help me unplug from that belief
and give myself permission, free myself up to You're never
going to be a singer that other people like to

(37:18):
listen to for entertainment. But I'm going to give you
the spirit talk to water, spirits, and I'm going to
give you songs to sing, medicine songs. They're not about entertainment,
they're about inner attainment. Medicine songs, and you're gonna have
to give to the fire your self consciousness, belief that

(37:38):
you can't sing, and you worry your egos, worry and concern.
How will other people respond what they think you're gonna earn?
Give it all to the fire and follow through on
these assignments that we give you because you offer yourself
up to serve, to serve tut to water, to serve
the spirit. Then you asked, so the assignments we get

(38:00):
from the medicine are not going to be in our
egos comfort zone. I had to face that constriction inside
of me and give it to the fire and let
those songs come through. And so one of my favorite
things to do in ceremonies in my life and relationship
is to is to sing songs, medicine songs. So I'm

(38:20):
going to sing one to you right now, your listeners,
and this song comes from Tatuwadi. Let's take a moment
here and just to envision that we're sitting in front
of the sacred fire, seeing its beauty, the flickering flames,
and hearing in the silence the song it sings, and

(38:45):
feeling the warmth of the fire and in full awareness,
at tuned awareness that what we're looking at and what
we're seeing, what we're feeling and hearing is a transmission
of intelligence, not just from father Son that sent starlight

(39:06):
to the Earth, captured in the trees, released in the
fire that we're seeing right now, but goes back to
the solar explosion from where father Son came from, and
jump back another step to the solar explosion where that
star came from, until we go all the way back
to the beginning of this universe. What some scientists refer
as a big bang. There, in fact, is a direct

(39:28):
transmission from the beginning creation of the universe, of the
creative wisdom power of the universe being transmitted to us
from the flow of photons from the sacred fire, the
energy coming to us from the fire and speaking to us.

(39:48):
And one of my times of listening with Tatuadi, this
song came through that I was told sing this song
to people. Sing this song to people that tells the
people listening to sitting with the fire what I got
to wat am doing. And so here's that song. I'm
sending you lie to help you remember. I'm sending you

(40:13):
lie to hold you in love. I'm sending you lie
to help you remember. I'm sending you lie to guide
your way. Home. Love is the answer. Love is the key.

(40:34):
Love is the healer. Led love flow through the lad
Love flow. Yo. We So therein is the healing that's
available to us through respectful, humble right relationship with spirit.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Oh bravo, thank you for that. Marinating in that song
and the lyrics too.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Nature.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
I love that you're all about nature. I think nature
holds a lot of the answer, and I think the
relationship with nature holds the answer. Talk about what nature
means to you and sacred geography such as the mountains
and the rivers and the animals, the plants. What is
that like for you and what wisdom do you gain there.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Having been born in New York City in nineteen forty
five and living in the first five years of my
life there, I didn't get to experience much of nature.
It wasn't until summertime when my mother took me and
my baby sister out for a couple of weeks in
the country. And one time she took me out into

(41:55):
the garden and she pulled out a case it from
the earth, and she washed it off, and then she
put her in her mouth and.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
She ate it.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
I'm three years old, I'm blowing. This is blowing my
mind because my understanding, foods comes from the refrigerator, or
it comes from the cupboard. And here's my mother, who
I love and trust. She's going out in the earth
and she's picking something out of the earth and cleaning up,
and then she's put in her mouth and chewing it.
And then she said, here, Tommy, have some of this.

(42:27):
So I trust her. I put some of my mouth
and an explosion of energy from a fresh carrot. And
so that was an initial opening to the power of
nature and the opening of my heart with appreciation for
this magnificent creation that opens itself up and gives us
more creation. We Chells have a understanding of the invisible power.

(42:56):
That you look at a branch of a bush tree
during the winter and all you see is wood. But
springtime comes what you are in now, and all of
a sudden one day and spring you come out and
you see there's a little bump on that branch or
that piece of wood there that wasn't there yesterday. And

(43:18):
then you come out the next day and that bumps
a little a little bigger, and you keep watching it
over days, and all of a sudden, this this flower
comes out, this blossom comes out in fantastic shape or
form or whatever, colors and smell and beauty.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
And.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
So where's that coming from? How did that? How did this?
I had a big flower come out of a cactus
a couple of days ago, literally this this big, and
you look at that cactus and it's all spines, and
it's said, how did that beautiful flower come out of that?
How did it? What kind of magic? Well that there's
an invisible growth power that comes up from Mother Earth.

(43:56):
And then we show us call that the goddess to
could see knock away, great grandmother growth, great grandmother growth
to kuts knock away. So she comes up from her
depths in the subterranean womb where she does the work
of winter, where she's taking what's falling away in the
fall that's died. She takes it down in her womb

(44:18):
and in a way we can't see because during the
winter it's dark and it's rainy and it's in cloudy
and down in her in her womb there she's doing
major work. So when springtime comes, she sends up that
growth power energy into nature, which we're a part of.
So she sends it up not just in the trees
and the bushes, and the plant sends it up into

(44:38):
us to grow the seeds of our potential, to give
us growth power, energy for those seats to grow that
if we nurture them, have the potential to reach their
highest levels of realization. So every spring, I am just
absolutely mind blown by seeing this experience of great grandmother growth, artistry,

(45:01):
and creativity, what she manifests. And ever since I was
a child with that initial experience to nature whenever I could,
when we moved out of the city, eventually my deepest
connection to inner peace during a troubled childhood and troubled
adolescence was to go be out in nature, go out

(45:23):
in the woods. When we moved to California, when I
was exposed to the mountains, to the Sierra Nevada, the
power of the mountains, the power of the ocean at
the beach, the power of the deep forest, the power
of the desert, cutuls peyote medicine, And without fail, if
I'm down, or I'm depressed, or I'm up tight, or

(45:43):
I'm constricted, or I'm stuck in a negative ego loop
or something, then I just need to go out and
walk on the madre. I just need to go out
and be with Mother Earth wherever I am, whatever the
situation allows me to be as closely connected to Mothers.
And when I go on vision but Quest, There's been

(46:04):
a number of times when I've gone on Vision Quest,
when backpacking into the location we were going, I would
feel sick or literally be sick, fever or whatever, and
I just knew, just get me to the Vision Quest side,
Just get me to base camp, and once I can
lie down on Mother Earth, she will suck out of

(46:26):
me whatever needs to be sucked out, and she will
send that growth power energy to heal me. And every
single time I've gone in that state, that's exactly what
has happened. So my love affair with if you will,
Mother and Nature uh and Ta Kutsinakawe Great Grandmother, growth

(46:48):
and the gifts of what she manifests, which is which
is the same powers are you and I? For us
to grow the seas inside of us, have our potentials
getting rid of their thought forms and say oh I
can't do that or whatever. We're just opening to the
flow of that energy because we're living in the universe
of infinite possibility. Let us not be the ones who

(47:11):
limit great spirit and say no, that can't happen through me.
I'm not an artist.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
So can we talk about vision quests?

Speaker 2 (47:21):
I just want to say, because of how you preempted
this and described your relationship with nature, It's something that
I found also in reading your book. Is this incredible
openness you had to experiences. You didn't shy away from things,
and then you would have grand experiences and then keep

(47:42):
going after them, whether it was with medicine, whether it
was with the vision quest you've been doing for so long,
or various experiences working with the wheat, shol etc. It's
very interesting to me, and so I have Now this
is my second program that I'm in. They're requesting a
vision quest, and I will just say, like, as a

(48:06):
woman alone, I don't feel comfortable going into the mountain.
And I've camped a lot in my life. I love camping.
That's fine, but I've actually never done that alone. And
so as a woman going into the mountains alone, I'm
not concerned about the animals at all. In fact, if
I saw an animal, I would take that as a
sign of medicine, their medicine for me. But I'm concerned

(48:29):
about humanity men in particular. So you know, how do
you assuage that and can you address vision quests.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
Well, my two I've been blessed with two daughters who
started going out on vision quest when they were young teenagers.
And the concerns I have when the people that I've
taken on vision quests go out for their solo time
are of course increased and measurably when it's my own

(49:02):
daughter's going out for solar time. But that concern is
with everybody that goes out. So one of the responsibilities
that as part of my initiation with the vision experiences
is you need to have a good relationship with the
helping protective spirits so you can call them in and

(49:23):
create a circle of protection for those people on their
vision quest. And part of your responsibility is when they're
out there, is you keep that line of protection going
feeding that line of protection the whole time that people
are out there. So for me to get to that place,
I had to face the worst fears of what could

(49:46):
happen to people on vision quests. And my first vision
quest teacher said, don't go out on a vision quest
unless you're prepared to die, not metaphorically or not emotionally
or psychologically experience. So do not go on in a
vision quest unless you are prepared to die, and do
not go out on a vision quest. And also don't

(50:09):
take sacred plant medicine unless you're willing to take on
more responsibility. So if you do those things, you will
get assignments. And if you open yourself, you will get assignments.
If you don't honor there's assignments, then you're causing trouble
for yourself. Better to not take them on and not
do them. So if you go go with that understanding.

(50:32):
So for me and my own initial work take being
guided to take people out on vision quests and supported
in that initiation process by elders that I work with,
then it pushed my buttons of So given your concerns
facing the truths of what could happen. Yes, young you're

(50:55):
young daughters, other young women or women of whatever age.
There could be some deranged men and it comes by
and because of the poison toxicity of their conditioning and
our culture, you know, there's violence and rapes you or
and kills you wherever that's possible. That is always possible
wherever we go. But then when you're out in a
place of isolation, it's who knows anything can happen. So

(51:19):
my experience in life and working with medicine is face
the fears, don't deny that that's not possible, to have
and face it and accept the truth that is possible.
Do your prayers and work with your spirit helpers to
create that protection. But it's also possible. It still happens,

(51:39):
So be humble, do your part, and then surrender. And
this is where that's the internal work. It surrender into well,
what do you have faith and trust in? It's bigger
than yourself from your own life experience, if any thing,
what do you have as you face those fares of

(52:00):
what could happen? What do you have faith and trust
in that's bigger than you and your ego that you
can call on for help in providing that protection. So
it'd work my faith and trust muscles to be in
those situations after fifty years and people go out. Now

(52:21):
I'm going out into the desert. So there's mountain lions
that come through, there's rattle snakes, there's scorpions once in
a while, and bear comes through. It's pretty rare once
in a while, So there's all kinds of things can happen.
People can trip on something and hit a rock and
be un conscious. So just because I've been doing this,
next March, I'll be taking a small group out in

(52:44):
the desert again for vision quest. Great Spirit given me
life until that time as a year old person, and
even though I've been doing it all these years, still
that there's anxiety that comes up about what could happen.
So I get an opportunity to work on facing the
truth of that, and I surrender to you, Great Spirit,

(53:06):
with faith and trust, with protection for that person so
they can have the experiences you brought them out here
to have safely and bring them back safely to base
camp when the period of time of fasting and solitude
and nature is over. So I get an opportunity to
work those faith and trust muscles every time I go out,
and muscles don't get stronger if we don't work them.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
That's right, absolutely, And so tell us why do a
vision quest? Why should people join you in March of
next year? Why would anybody want to do a vision quest?

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Excellent question. Let's exhuman. Let's take that word should and
put that in the fire. So let go of all
all shoulds and just come back to the question of
and reflecting on. I'm not here by accident in this life.

(54:01):
Creative powers of the universe, whatever you want to call them,
gave me life and are giving life to me in
this moment, and what I call the angels, the protection
had brought me this far in my life, and none
of that is by accident. That there's purpose in my
being here. The creative powers give me this life and

(54:23):
protected me and brought me to this point wherever we
are in the stage of the life cycle. I have
a purpose in being here. I have a deeper being
than my ego identification, my soul that's come into this
incarnation to go through certain experiences to help wake up
on a deeper level, remember the truth of who we are, love,

(54:46):
what we are, why we're here, to be a channel
for that healing light and love. Wake up from the
sleep state of identification with ego and feeding egos egos
needs instead of our soul, because if we don't, if
we don't feed our souls, then on the soul level,
we start to starve. And the expression the experience of

(55:08):
that is depression or fear, constriction and anxiety and stuck
in negativity and suffering. So the understanding with indigenous people
that you're not here by accident, as you as you
come into as you come into usually uh for the
woman when she first comes into her moontime, and for

(55:31):
the for the young boy when the testosterone the power
of that comes on. Then the elders understood that this
is a time for initiation. These are big powers, the
woman's coming into to be able to bring life, great powers,
the man's coming into to be able to take life
and use it. If guided not by ego, how to

(55:55):
protect life for that life that the woman brings through
and then the protection to them the conditions so that
life can get what it needs to reach its fullest
blossomy and greatest good. If we don't have initiations about
how to work with that power or the woman and
the man, that power can go in destructive toxic ways
which we see every day and reporting in the news

(56:18):
of what's happening. So when it was time for you
to open up as a young person to your purpose,
what spirit had in mind in giving you life, what
purpose Spirit had in mind, then you don't go to
ask somebody else about what that purpose is. You go

(56:41):
back into quote unquote nature to be in an eeval
relationship with the creative powers of nature which are coming
from the Great Spirit, and you step out of your
comfort zone, you leave the comforts of home, whatever those are,
and you're deliberately going to deny yourself that which we
love to do to eat for our lives and we

(57:03):
need to do, to deliberately deny yourself that pre period
of time to demonstrate to the Spirit your sincerity and
your commitment to wanting to open up to getting that guidance,
that vision, that insight and understanding from Spirit about why
you're here. And so you'll be tested when you're out

(57:24):
there in your solo time fast than you'll be tested
by your fears. All your fears, your greatest fears are
gonna come up. Whatever's been stuck in your push down
into your shadow and you're unconscious, it's gonna come up,
either in the dreams or situations that happens. So you're
gonna have to face into your your your darkness and
see what's in there. And that's the opportunity to create conscious,

(57:47):
skillful relationship with what's in there, to open the doorways
to the gifts that that are in there also that
can only be realized when we face into and do
that shadow work. And so if if you as a
young person, want to know your purpose and being here,
so it's not about you should do this, it's if

(58:08):
you want to know why spirit breeds life into you
and what gifts has given you Spirit's given you, that's
your responsibility to learn about and develop to their highest degree.
Why not for ego gain, but to give back in
service to your people, to give back in service to
mother Earth, to give back in service to the sacred fire,

(58:30):
to the to the animals, to the plants, to the life.
That's why you're here, to give back to help feed
life in a positive way. Then then it's time for
you to go in a vision quest and it's time
for you to go back to source, to get from
source why it gave you life and the medicine gifts

(58:53):
it's given you. As a sacred being, be you in
a woman's body or a man's body, or whatever mixed
body or whatever your souls incarnated into, you have particular
gifts that you've been given, sensitivities, medicine gifts that it's
your responsibility to learn about and find the practices to

(59:13):
help you cultivate those The potential of their seats and
the fullest realization. So if that's something that calls you,
if your soul calls you, then it's time to go
out on a vision quest. So I felt that call
from from an early age very strongly. That was initiated

(59:38):
originally from death. When I was two months before my
fourth birthday, my father died and so the bedtime stories
I'd been told and they all lived happily ever after
that was trashed and I was plunged into the reality
in this life that there's this power called death that

(01:00:00):
can come and take people you love and whenever it
wants to and does not need your permission. That's part
of this life that you're in.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
And so I was.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
I was initiated at an age I couldn't understand it
at the time, and the teachings of impermanence took me
fifteen years still opening with the medicine with the LSD
to go back into and unpack that experience and decide
the trauma of it and the impact of that trauma
on this young child which was me. See the medicine

(01:00:35):
teachings in it. Recog guys and understand the medicine teachings
in it. And so that was the start of whatever
number one, I'm seeing through the the the untruths about life,
I'm seeing into what's what's what's what's what's true about

(01:00:59):
how life really works, which includes death. And so, given
this experience of impermanence of everything that I see, including myself,
the question that started for me at that three and
a half year old, although I didn't know it cognitively
at the time, was what led to the search that
led to the vision quest of the medicine work. Was what,

(01:01:22):
given this reality of death, what if anything is worth
based living a life on? What if anything it's worth
based living life on? And as I grew older and
I saw the superficialities of what my culture said living
life is based on, was that there was no substance

(01:01:42):
to it, material gain, acquisition, status, the ego, aggvertizement, none
better than your accumulation. That none of that feeds the soul.
And so well, my soul has been hurt by death,
and so I'm wondering now what can feed my soul
to help me create a life where there's in permanence,

(01:02:03):
where I can go forward and grow my potentials and
find joy in being life no matter what the challenges are.
And so that was the mode of energy and impetus
for whatever whatever peoples and cultures I can find that
are being real about their feelings and about life and

(01:02:23):
the truth of what's happening in the culture and society
that's going on and what has deeper meaning that draws
me to it like a wandering in the desert to
an oasis for water. So when I discovered about the
vision quest, this is the doorway to that deeper kind
of exploration and empowerment and inside and understanding of who

(01:02:48):
I am and what I am, and what Spirit had
in mind and giving me this life and what I
need to draw on and work on to be able
to honor as best I can with my humanness. So
it's not about perfection, but with embracing the holiness of
our wholeness I can do to find and walk that
heart path to completion. So when the medicine of death

(01:03:09):
does come and ticks me up by the show and
said dude, it's time to go, I can look back
and whenever that might be, I've been living in a
way that I can look back and say, Okay, I
did my best to show up to live from my heart,
my integrity, my authenticity, my soulfulness, and that's all I

(01:03:29):
could do. So I'm not clinching and tight, but oh no,
I need time to do this or clear that up,
or I've been putting it off. No, I've been doing it.
I've been living that. I've been listening to my heart,
doing the best I can to walk that path from
the heart. So I'm ready to go. I can release peacefully.
The only way that can happen is if we do

(01:03:51):
take the time to enter into those experiences that open
us up to what fees our souls, what feeds my soul,
what feeds are souls, and then the courage to act
on the assignments that come from that listening. Because the assignments,
asn't mentioned before, both with plant Medicine and vision Quest,
they're not going to be an ego's comfort zone. So

(01:04:13):
if you're not willing to take that on, don't open
those doors. But if you are, go through them.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
You've done so much in your life, tom so much,
had so many adventures, and been so brave really to
experience a lot. This is dare to dream? Is there
anything you have not yet done that you still dream?

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
To experience, do or be.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
Well. First of all, let me just go back and
correct something you said when you were talking about the
adventures I've had, and I don't know if you use
the word adjective, but fearless, so it's a far cry
the truth and reality of me is going on to

(01:05:05):
these adventures, was facing fear and anxiety. It wasn't the
absence of fear or anxiety because of the constrictions that
took place with my father's death. For those fifteen years
until the medicine opened up, I was pretty much unconsciously
giving all of my power to fear and just acting

(01:05:28):
out of reactivity from the wounds. And the medicine helped
me see fifteen years later how I had given my
power to fear to shut me down and doing those
things my heart was calling me to do, and being
the way my heart was calling me to be. So

(01:05:49):
courage isn't Courage isn't the absence of fear. Courage is
going forward even when we're scared shitless and our knees
are knocking and we're freaking out, but our hearts are saying,
you need to do this, so give yourself permission to
be freaked out, but don't give the fear power to
stop you from doing it. So that's that's that was
the correction I just wanted to make about my own process.

(01:06:13):
And so now I've forgotten the rest of the part
of the question you asked me, So help me out again.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Sure this is dare to dream? So what do you
now stare to dream?

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
What are your future dreams or goals? What haven't you
done or been yet?

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
I don't have I don't have any like learning things
that I want to do or or or dream for
myself personally. You know, the biggest desire in me is
to uh be able to reach Like I said, whenever

(01:06:52):
the man of my life comes, to be able to
look back and feel that I've I've showed up and
I did my best to honor the assignments I've been given.
So that one of the chants that I and prayers
that I do when I start my day is I
go where you want me to go. I open to
your flow. I do what you want me to do.
I surrender to you. Yahoo so open to that guidance.

(01:07:15):
I want to be able to feel that I've fulfilled
the purpose as best I could. That spirit gave me
this life for and so different ideas come to me
for different things about what to do and offer, and
so when they come through, I put them out in
the world and sometimes they blossom and sometimes they don't.

(01:07:37):
And so part of the work is don't be attached
to an outcome. Just show up. My part is the
link and a chain, is just to show up and
do my part of what Spirit's calling me to do,
Like the fire ceremonies. When I moved here to Santa
Barbara a couple of years ago, the guidance came through
what Guadelupe had told me to do, and I'd done
up in where I've lived previously for many minus years,

(01:08:00):
but now moving to a new place and didn't know anybody.
And after a while, Ruth's starting to come down here.
It's like the guidance was saying, Okay, you need to
offer fire ceremonies here. Start offering one, even though you
hardly know anybody. Spirit brought me together with somebody who
had a beautiful place to do that and felt affinity

(01:08:21):
for it, and came on a vision quest with me.
Three weeks after hearing we make a presentation about this
kind of work, and so put it out to people
he knew. I put it out to a few people
I knew, and a few people came and we had
a wonderful experience, and it gradually it grew to where

(01:08:41):
last night there was there was twenty five people there.
So for me, it's like one of my prayers is
let me just drop into it for a moment. It's
for the healing of the sacred hoop, is for a

(01:09:05):
critical mass of us, two legs of humanity, to do
the inner work, to open our minds and deepen and
expand and raise the bandwidth of our awareness, to understand
and live from the truth of Loha cosmic love that
we are to live from the truth of Allaha sacred unity,

(01:09:29):
and to do so with allegory, with joy, to kind
of create the world we're capable of creating, which is
a peaceful and just and beautifully diverse, win win world
for all. We're capable of doing that. We are one
capable of doing that. So my biggest dream, my biggest hope,
my biggest prayer is listening for guidance about what I

(01:09:54):
can do to contribute to that birthing, to the birthing
of that dream. That's my that's my biggest dream, and
so it makes me have to be responsible for listening
every day that I'm given. I don't have no guarantee
I'll be given tomorrow, but I'm given this day. So
today Spirit brought you and I together, and so the

(01:10:17):
assignment is to be fully present here in the truth
of who I am, and open to the truth of
who you are and what Spirit brings through us to
bring through and without an attachment to what happens to
it is. That's not in you're my hands, that's in
bigger hands, but it's in you you. It's on you
and I to be here president in our integrity and

(01:10:38):
share as we're doing. That's opening a doorway for me
joyful connection with you and enjoy the enjoy the dance,
you know, enjoy the dance of being alive. And and
so for me it's joyful and it's blissful to sit
in that circle to the twenty five people and hear
what came through they're listening to Tatawadi, the richness of

(01:11:00):
it and how it was healing and transformational and empowering
and inspiring from that experience, and that I get to
be a part of supporting people in that waking up
process which moves us toward This is my hope and
prayer moves us toward achieving that critical mass to shape
shift the paradigm destructive paradigm that the world really is

(01:11:24):
living in based on this perception of separation and ego
and and capitalism and control and power and getting and materialism,
to shape shift, to help us wake up to remember
we're all. We are love, Our love is forgiving, and
we're all connected, and let's let's get on with cooperating,

(01:11:44):
listening for that guidance from higher than ego to create
that kind of world we're capable of creating. That's my
biggest prayer, my biggest dream that that can happen. And
for whatever time I'm alive here, make imn sure that
I show up to do my part to contribute to
that earth.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
Mm hm. And so your book, folks can get the
Psychedelic Shaman. I think also you were just or maybe
right now or on the Shift network teaching, Is that correct? No?

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
No, some of the things that folks can find to
work with you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
Yeah, the best thing is got to my website and
there you'll find opportunities about how to connect like one
free one is every Sunday. My daughter's initiated this a
couple of years ago for half an hour every Sunday
from ten to ten thirty California time. We just turned

(01:12:38):
into spirit and she asked me questions and then I
just turned into spirit and respond to whatever spirit's bringing through.
So that's every every Sunday that's available to people.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Just what's the name of the podcast, Shamanic Sundays Shamonic Sundays,
And their website is New Vision of Living dot org, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
Or doctor Tom pinkson dot com, either one of those. Yeah,
And so that's one opportunity connect. And there's there's information
there about video course I have and Livelove Now group
that meets lives on Zoom once a month and once
a week. I send out written material to it for
the exorbitant contribution of nine dollars a month for that.

(01:13:28):
So there's all kinds of opportunities to connect, and I'm
available to people on a one to one basis through consulting, mendorship,
medicine work, whatever whatever spirit brings us together to do.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Thank you for being the medicine. Thank you for bringing
the medicine today.

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
You will appreciate it. You appreciate the time with you
and all the work you're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
Hi am today's show with this quote. The wisdom of
the ancestors live in the earth, the plants, the stars,
and within each of us. As we remember how to
listen as the we schalld do, we awaken to a
deeper belonging and a sacred way of being. May we

(01:14:10):
walk forward with reverence, guided by the heart of the
vision and the truth of the spirit. Subscribe to this
number one transformation Conversation the weekly Dare to Dream with
Debbie Dashinger podcast and leave a comment and share. Please
subscribe you really help the show. Next week on the podcast,

(01:14:33):
we're talking about an Intuitive Life with guest Stirling Meyer,
who offers personalized terror readings, intuitive coaching, and extraordinary tools
for manifesting your dreams. Thank you for joining us today
on the show, and remember everything that Tom said about
living in cooperation and love.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
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