April 17, 2024 • 54 mins
SUMMARY
DEM Tech Folks have a fun conversation with Ebony Pierce consisting of back and forth shots across the screen while mixing in some helpful tips and thought provoking "gems". Ebony, a former developer now turned cybersecurity expert, shares her journey into the tech industry and her experiences working in various roles. She discusses her early exposure to technology through a hardware program and her decision to pursue a degree in computer science. Ebony also talks about her first job in a casino as an overnight backup operator and the importance of understanding IT operations. She highlights the challenges in the cybersecurity field, including the need for qualified professionals and the prevalence of certification-focused training. In this conversation, Rico and Kenny continue their discussion with Ebony about her journey in the tech industry and her role as a Chief Cyber Security Officer. They explore the importance of passion and problem-solving in cybersecurity, the misconception of quick money in the field, and the lack of representation for women and minorities. Ebony shares her experiences of being the only woman and black person in many tech spaces and the challenges she faced. She also provides valuable advice for those interested in getting into cybersecurity, including volunteering at conferences and exploring different areas of interest.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/dem-tech-folks--5753456/support.
DEM Tech Folks have a fun conversation with Ebony Pierce consisting of back and forth shots across the screen while mixing in some helpful tips and thought provoking "gems". Ebony, a former developer now turned cybersecurity expert, shares her journey into the tech industry and her experiences working in various roles. She discusses her early exposure to technology through a hardware program and her decision to pursue a degree in computer science. Ebony also talks about her first job in a casino as an overnight backup operator and the importance of understanding IT operations. She highlights the challenges in the cybersecurity field, including the need for qualified professionals and the prevalence of certification-focused training. In this conversation, Rico and Kenny continue their discussion with Ebony about her journey in the tech industry and her role as a Chief Cyber Security Officer. They explore the importance of passion and problem-solving in cybersecurity, the misconception of quick money in the field, and the lack of representation for women and minorities. Ebony shares her experiences of being the only woman and black person in many tech spaces and the challenges she faced. She also provides valuable advice for those interested in getting into cybersecurity, including volunteering at conferences and exploring different areas of interest.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
- Early exposure to technology programs can spark an interest in the tech industry.
- Understanding IT operations is valuable for software developers.
- The cybersecurity field faces challenges with the lack of qualified professionals.
- Certification-focused training may not always provide the necessary skills and experience. Passion and problem-solving are important in cybersecurity, and chasing money without a genuine interest in the field can create issues.
- Representation of women and minorities in tech is still lacking, and many spaces lack diversity.
- Volunteering at conferences like B-Sides and others can provide valuable networking opportunities and insights into different areas of cybersecurity.
- The risk management framework is a useful tool for expanding understanding of cybersecurity policies and exploring different areas of interest.
- Overcoming imposter syndrome and being comfortable with being uncomfortable are important for personal and professional growth in the tech industry.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/dem-tech-folks--5753456/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
I have. You know, Ihave multiple compliments on my hair and outfit
today, Thank you very much fromwho the trolls? Oh what what's a
little paintroll name? You gotta hitthe button, dude, you gotta hit
the button. Rico, which onethe one you were playing early? That
(00:27):
one? It's too late now,it's not funny. I like it though,
I know, I know it's Iknow it's like but but seriously though,
I like it though, because that'sthat's the way my daughter used to
wear how when she was a littleI used to love with hair like my
moon would like pull it back andlike with the little thing and it just
be like puffed up. I lovethat, jont man. I mean,
(00:48):
this is like a custom haircut forcurly hair. Today. I just happened
to let it be there. Shakeit one time. I want to shake.
I'm like, it's so bouncy,it's all too I'm bad, like
I want to do. You havecertain people come and say, who can
(01:10):
I touch it? I have someonethat wants to touch it once a month,
his wife. His wife brings himto me, so you can touch
it real. My wife would bringme over there. That's not awkward.
(01:30):
Absolutely, it is awkward, sir, you're fine. You have any questions
before we start? No, no, no question. I mean we already
discussed that this camera is supposed tobe on. So yeah, I wish
I had know that that how Iwas gonna be like that before I suggested
(01:51):
that we're here? Now we're herenow, right, it's serious. Good
one, look man, a goodone, y'all. Anybody that knows me,
anybody that knows me know how Ifeel about natural hair, so they
know this is all cat. It'sjust me being stupid. Okay, I
(02:13):
have another Cat Williams joint going onhere for real. I wish I could
be that controversial man, But Imean I'm one. I'm not that smart
a dude smart, but this ain'tabout cat. This is quick distracted me.
Make you see? You know I'mdistractable, all right, folkus center
(02:42):
mm hmm okay, So you readyit's gonna start playing music and then I
should be quiet? Is that?What is that? What what it would
take? That's all I need?That's all. It's required music. I
thought that much. Anyway, It'sfine, we'll start talking and see if
it works. Say some no,I'm good. I can't take no lost.
(03:10):
Ye I don't even know where theyhit the ground. Then to go
off, ya hit the ground,then to go off, Champ. I
can't take no loss. Yeff.All right, guys, welcome back to
the show. Thank you guys forjoining us again on another episode of Them
Tech Folks. I'm Rico Rental,your host, and I'm joined by two
of my my co hosts, twoof the gym. Yeah, are you
(03:36):
guys, tech folks? Here areyou guys, my colleagues, my tech
folks, Reginald Davis, and wegot Kenny Lewis right here. Reginald shout
out, yeah, the host ofthe host of the most uh uh calories.
Go ahead. You did not rehearse, obviously you're not rehearsed. What
(03:59):
everybody? Okay? Cool? Allright, So we're sitting here with them,
Miss Ebony, right, Evan,if you don't mind h introducing yourself
to the people so we know whoyou are and just a little bit of
where you come from. Hi,my name is Ebony. I met Rico
(04:24):
a couple of months ago and hetold me that he had this amazing podcast
and I should be on it.And I was like, all right,
that's cool. I am a softwareDeveloper by degree Computer Science, minors in
math and Jewish Studies, Master's InformationSystem Security. I carried like twelve different
certifications and all types of security andI know a little bit about a lot
(04:46):
of things. For a second,so Jewish studies, Yes, so will
offending you get us canceled? Iwas gonna say like that, I didn't.
That was a curve ball I ain'tsee coming right there. I want
to apologize that everything I said aboutyour hair before we started, man only
got like nine episodes because you neverknow. Now you know, the show's
(05:11):
a baby. Don't hurt the baby. Just apologize to all the juice,
I mean early. Just get thoseapologies in early, and then you can
be as offensive as you want.I'm sure that's okay. But but but
seriously, though, absolutely, Ebanyis a great person. I actually just
recently, you know, was introducedto Ebany. She would rutiniely come to
(05:36):
our office for work stuff and justyou know, talking about people. But
anyway, this isn't about me andhow I know Ebony or Ebony and how
she knows me. This is aboutEbony. So ebany where are you from?
Let's let's start with that one whereyou're from I'm from Washington, d
(05:56):
C. Washington, d C.And how did you end up getting introduced
to tech? What was your firsttime? Was it like a microwave love
and that you fixed or it wasnot a microwave ove and that I fixed.
My mom insisted that I needed friendsto get out of the house,
and so she signed me up fora hardware program at the University of the
(06:17):
District of Columbia. And so whenI went to the hardware program, we
basically built robots and we did abunch of like the little digital parts,
the packages where you can like plugin capacitors and solder them and they light
up and stuff. And so Idid that for two consecutive summers and I
(06:38):
really enjoyed it. And then afterthat I started a computer science program during
the summer and then I've just kindof been doing it stuff since then.
How old were you when you weredoing this with those kind of like like
the original adrinos or raz reck pilesor something like that. Yeah, I
started when I was like twelve,But also I'm not that old, so
(06:59):
watching it, okay, did thisconversation either, Okay? Trying to get
us all in trouble that's what tellyou, man, I mean, if
you'll want a guess, so I'lllet you guess. No, we don't
want to guess because I'm I'm abad guess or anyways, I'm a horrible
(07:20):
guess. So you got involved inthat in you know, at twelve,
right, So in between being twelveand playing with these kids and then going
to college right for tech, whatwere you doing in that time frame?
(07:41):
So Tuskegee University has a summer programfor teenagers, and I attended two summer
courses for computer science, and forthose two summer courses, they gave us
college credits and scholarships. So Istarted to my computer science degree and took
Skegee University. The unfortunate circumstances thatTuskege is really good for a lot of
(08:07):
things, but their computer science programwas not ideal. So I transferred to
another university where I also picked upthis Jewish studies minor, and then I
graduated with a degree in computer science, a minor in math, and a
minor in Jewish studies. And whatmade you go with the math and Jewish
(08:28):
studies? So originally I had startedwith a double major of electrical engineering and
computer science, but I was workingovernight and paying for school, so it
got to be a little much.So the miners ended up being more convenient,
and the minors were necessitated by moneyfor college, so they were paying
for my books and stuff, andI just had to take a couple of
(08:48):
classes to cover electives and so thatwas a win. I love it,
man. And if you can throwmore of those college words and that,
that would be great. People lovethat kind of stuff made college words.
I mean, if if kids arelike getting ready of for s a T
they can just listen to all stuff. Man, It's true. I get
(09:09):
that a lot. Yeah, yeah, learn from it's the complexities of the
of the of the of the conversations. I think I like them when she
do it, But it's the principalit's the principalities of the principality inventing words
(09:31):
and stuff. Uh. That's dope, man, that's really dope. So
coming out of college, how didyou end up getting your first job?
What was that like an internship ordid you have your first job before college?
I'm curious, I did. Ihave had several jobs. I'm kind
(09:52):
of process oriented, so every jobthat I'm always hired for I end up
kind of leading the process of howto improve IT. But my first real
IT job was in the casino.Because it was convenient, I was able
to work overnight and then go toschool all day. So in the casino
I ended up being an overnight backupoperator. So as an overnight backup operator,
(10:16):
you're responsible for backing up all ofthe operations within the casino, making
sure that all of the slot machinesare working, making sure that all the
cameras are functioning, making sure thatwe're taking regular backups from the hotel,
and that sort of thing. Soit was really helpful to start to do
that and understand the IT operations ona lot of different levels outside of just
the software development that I was doingduring the day. So go ahead.
(10:41):
I was gonna say, it's aneasy way. I can, you know,
get get a hone in on yourage. Did you use tapes?
Tape? It's actually not an easyway. The casino prefers to use tapes.
Okay, But if this is goingto be a distraction to everyone years
(11:01):
old, I thought you was gonnasay, like seventeen or something. No,
no, this is going to bea distraction. It's not gonna be
a distraction. Perfect because everybody knows. Now, I used to be a
tape. I used to be editthat out tape. It was fun stuff.
(11:22):
So why why did they go?What does they why do they why
do they like? Why do theyprefer tape? Take it off site?
Right? Yes? Yeah? AndI used to be. Yeah. In
this particular case, I used towork for Harros Entertainment, uh in New
Jersey. So they had five differentcasinos they were responsible for. So they
(11:45):
would bundle all of the tapes fromthe casinos for particular nights and then they
would go and ship them somewhere elselike that. That's what I learned about
tapes. Okay, So casino,when you have an approached, you know,
uh, I don't know what's goingon. I don't know what's going
(12:09):
on. How to edit that out? Have you been approached and just cheeve?
I mean you know how people werelike, you know, jugle loud.
Yeah, let's not do that,let's not do that. So you
said you did nighttime was a casinodaytime software development? Was that in college
or did you have another job?No, that was in college. That
(12:30):
was for school. I had aninternship during the day with fun of fine
software instructors, and then at nightI will work in the casino to pay
for school all day full time aparttime full time. Wow, So you
were working eight hours at night,like eight hours eight hour days at night
and then going to school. Iwas working eight to twelve hour nights.
(12:54):
So did you. I'm assuming youhad a lot of know, those a
lot of coffee. No, becauseman, no. And actually at some
point I ended up not having anyhousing, so I had to like sleep
in my car for a while.And the casino very conveniently. They have
uniforms, they have showers, theyhave food, so like literally the whole
(13:18):
intention of the employees that work thereis to have you not have to leave
so you can take breaks, yougo get coffee, you walk around,
you get some fresh air. Butif you enjoy your work, it's really
not that big of a deal.For us working in the back as backup
operators, we got to see everythingbut never had to interact with people,
(13:39):
so it was very convenient. Soit's like watching a movie for most of
the time that you're there. Yourun a couple of backups, and you
know, yeah, and I thinkand Kenny, you said you was a
backup person too. I was,I did backups too. You really have
to understand all the technologies to doto be an effective backup technician. So
(14:00):
if any I mean, I don'tknow if anybody, if the backup technician
is really like a thing like itused to be. But if you were,
if you want to get a broadscope of technology, definitely backup person
because you have to know how everythingworks. Everything backs up. So yeah,
that's a great, great, greatplace to get a good breath of
technology. I was just I was. So the reason for my question about
(14:22):
why they preferred backup tapes was I'veheard like some r stories about like back
up one in particular. I forgotwhat kind of organization it was, but
that what they would do is theywould back it up and the guy that
took the backups off site, youknow, he would take them by subway,
right, and they find out whenthey needed the tapes, you know,
(14:48):
the restore it will blink, ohyeah, so retracing you know,
the activities they found that when hewent to the cell, he would sit
him down on the ground, right, the vibrations of the magnetism or something
like that within the subway transit wasjust wiping the tapes, you know,
kind of like coul Begauser, youknow what I mean. And so you
(15:13):
know, it's like why you know, with everything being so interconnected, why
you know, I'm sure because withall the money that casinos take from me
personally, I'm fun and all theinfrastruction they got, they can do it.
They can afford it. Just haveyou know, redundant sites, you
know, between casinos, So someof their some of the casinos have changed
(15:35):
their processes in terms of the waythat that operates. But part of the
challenge is that transitioning into like mypresent career is from a cybersecurity perspective,
if you don't understand how the datais being transferred and where the data is
being transferred, and who has accessto the data, it's still easier to
(15:56):
fall back on an old school methodthan to put everything up in the cloud,
because now you put everything up inthe cloud, you have these shared
instances or whatever the case may be, and who has access to the way
that the casino operates, who hasaccess to the tapes, who has access
to the videos that have been recorded, who has access to CCTV to wipe
these different spaces down? I meanyou watch Oceans eleven where they're like looping
(16:19):
videos and that sort of thing.So some casinos would still prefer to go
old school rather than oh well,let's just have an off site backup that
doesn't automatically every single night. Right, you think it's just like being married
to the past or is there likejust is there like a technical reason that
(16:40):
you feel that that makes logical sense. I don't think it's a technical reason
that makes logical sense. I thinkthat it's historically a people oriented reason as
to why that happens, because you'llhave people that have been there for years
and this is how they've always doneit, and they can't trust anything else,
so they just stay with it.I love it. Oh in Great
(17:02):
Segua, by the way, butgo ahead, no, I was want
to say. Somebody asked the question. Carlton asked, speaking casinos, how
could we have prevented what happened inVegas from a cybersecurity standpoint? Which time
you all right? Which time thatsomething happened? What happened in Vegas?
(17:30):
What's the last one? I rememberthe last one, but the latest one
I don't remember. Oh oh,he's talking about the Okay, I know
he's talking about it. I don'tknow what we're talking about. Yeah,
so that was there was a recenthack. There was a reason hack in
Vegas. I'm not an employed Icouldn't remember what it was. But Carlton,
(17:52):
if you can't, just drop itin the chat, Yeah, yeah,
dropping in chair. I'm sure shedon't have to answer because she ain't
worked with casinos. I don't havethe answers, but I go to I
go to Vegas every year for HackerSummer Camp and wow, okay, I'm
actually the quartermaster besides Las Vegas.So come on out whenever you are over
(18:14):
in Vegas. Exactly every single year. Inevitably, they the people that go
out there have broken the encryption,they have broken the key cards, They've
duplicated casino host keys to access backrooms, They've social engineered their way behind
stage. Like, there's so manythings that happen all of the time.
(18:37):
And part of the reason for that, of course, is that there's never
a really defined outline of all ofthe lines of effort that need to be
protected across the entire casino. Everybodyassumes that these responsibilities are delegated appropriately and
everyone is doing what they need todo, but inevitably there are gaps that
exist because people are just being nice, people are unaware, people are overworked,
(19:03):
people are tired, whatever the casemay be. We don't understand the
technology configurations the way that they shouldbe. However, many years ago,
when they decided to install the WiFi thermometer in the aquarium and never bothered
to put a password on it,so you have access to admin across the
entire network. Is things like that. Can you say you're an ambassador of
(19:26):
B sides? Quarter master? Oh, quarter mess get it right, get
it right, I'm going now.I know they got B side in Tampa
in April, so yeah, weneed to be on that. Saint Pete
and besides Orlando. Yeah, sohow'd you come about being a quartermaster B
(19:47):
Sides? In twenty thirteen, Igave my first talk on incorporating security into
software engineering at B sides because theyhave a mentorship program where they pay the
first time speakers with long term speakers, and so you get insight on how
to speak well, how to arrangeyour program, how to bring people in
(20:11):
and engage them, that sort ofthing. And so I registered for this
and I volunteered so that my momcould come to my talk. She gets
she did come. Oh god.And when I volunteered, I volunteered in
a quartermaster room. In the sameyear they asked me to be quartermaster.
They're like, you clearly know howto organize things. We don't think that
(20:36):
we know how to do this well, so we like you to do this.
So I think this year will bemy eleventh year being quartermaster. And
in all seriousness is she is very, very legit with that whole thing.
Like I've been down with this clientthat I'm with right now for like what
(20:56):
three or four months, and thenevery comes parraised me around the whole compound,
introduced me to everybody and everybody thatsees ebany. Hey, I'm talking
about like full birds and all kindsof everybody in between. They know everything.
Like she's madam President, so Icall them madam president. She's going
(21:18):
for election whenever she goes on Strogsquartermaster. I mean she was a dollar
master. She get my vote.But quartermass thing that was a stretch.
But we got like seven kids rightoutside. Like he's twisted it too,
(21:48):
don't She don't know me my familyin the stands and no question so check
us out right so when you working, I mean even the casino even now,
right. So, I know there'sbeen a a noted history of cybersecurity
not necessarily being a priority in mostorganizations, you know, but with recent
(22:14):
events like hacks and stuff like that, do you see organizations really turning the
cybersecurity and making it a priority andputting the money behind it and the staff
behind it. Yeah, So acouple of things happen when we say cybersecurity.
(22:37):
Cybersecurity consists of so many moving partsthat really have to be defined and
then interlocked in order to have aneffective program. And so one of the
challenges that I personally experience is thatI find that a lot of people want
to do cybersecurity for money, andthat's never going to be an effective workforce
(23:03):
because their motivation is the money andthey're not particularly interested in what they're doing
or how they're executing. So that'sone of the main challenges. And so
a lot of these companies end upgetting burned when someone gets a security plus
or when someone gets a cast andthey show up and they're like, oh,
well, give me this money,and then they ruin everything and they
(23:25):
leave. So one of my thingsis so sometimes they teach certification classes.
And I'll tell you one of thesecertification classes I was teaching. I was
teaching a Security Plus class and thisguy came late. It was a four
week class only on Saturdays. Hecame in the second week, second Saturday,
and he's like, I just passedmy CEH and I'm ready for the
(23:47):
Security Plus because I need it forwork. And I was like, great,
love that, love this enthusiasm.Let's get started. We get through
the first lesson and he's like,oh, I just had a quick question.
Like absolutely, He's like, what'sa firewall? I'm like, what,
excuse me? You just passed yourwhat? Who? Okay. So
it's things like that that really concernedme because if you work for the federal
(24:11):
government, we work for the DoDand they're like, oh, well,
just go get one of these eightyfive to seventy thirts and we'll put you
onto cybersecurity. That's not a problem, but they're not giving people the experience
that they need, they're not givingpeople the requirements that they need, and
it ends up being a cash grabfor all these certification places. And so
from a cybersecurity perspective, companies arelike, well, I shouldn't be able
(24:33):
to trust these people, and theycan't. They can't. And so until
we have people that are actually qualifiedand not just certified, it's always going
to be a struggle to bring aworkforce and to make this a priority because
so many people have burned so manybridges over this time. And I'll get
off myself box now, no,nons that was fine. Question is this
(25:00):
And I guess you can also callit a concern like I I've heard that
before, right, and I don'tI don't whole hardly disagree. I can
definitely resonate with the position. Andyou know where you're coming from, right
when people say, oh, don'tdo it for the money, but I
mean, yeah, I do itfor the money, you know. But
(25:22):
at the end of the day,I also, you know what, I
went through the process, you know, I went through the process, and
I actually, you know, youknow, built myself with great foundation,
I feel, you know, withmentors, and it took some time.
I learned the things that were requiredwere required of me at the time that
(25:45):
allowed me to understand tech the waythat I do understand it, which I
don't I'm not like you know,tech God and nothing like that. But
I'm pretty I'm pretty good with withwith what I do. So is that
to say that with you say thatyou know it's definitely an issue with money
or that people turn they create anissue by only going for the money and
(26:11):
not you know, really learning totech. They created an issue by only
going for the money. Like Ilike to place people in positions where they're
going to be successful. So thequestion really isn't so much what technology interests
you, but where do your passionslie. Do you like to solve problems?
Do you like talking to people,do you like pulling pieces together?
(26:33):
Do you enjoy puzzles? What arethe foundational things that you really enjoy Because
there's a space for you in everypart of cybersecurity and every part of it.
But you have to understand what thatlooks like because when you chase your
passions, that money gonna come.Like you ain't missing no meals. That's
not an issue. Yeah, Ithink the issue is is like people they
(26:55):
see the look ads and ads videosof the boot camps. You can make
six figures just doing this. Youcan, you can, but they not
just you can, but just notfrom justice in the first three months.
I mean you can, but somepeople just see that and like I want
(27:15):
the money, I don't care aboutthe job. So that's how Yeah,
this is definitely a full conversation initself. So I just I drawed it.
I drotted some notes down because thisis probably like two different episodes like
what we just kind of talked about. So I want to I want to
pull off of that right now,right and we'll revisit it when we bring
(27:37):
Ebony back. But can I justcircle back to Carlton's question earlier, Uh,
casino? Yeah, about the casino, because get that money. It's
really important that you get that engagementis really important. So from the article
that you're saying, I perused itreally quick and it looks like it was
(28:00):
social engineering that transitioned over into aransomware situation. First and foremost, I
tell everyone, as we had thiswhole discussion earlier about backups. If you
are doing consistent backups, if youunderstand the level of the recovery that's required
for your organization, you don't needto pay anything. All you need to
do is shut this down, recoverfrom one of your backups, and then
(28:25):
identify how it is that they gotin, and that should be logging,
that should be auditing, that shouldbe consistent monitoring, and that's the end
of that. From a technology perspective, this is a really easy fix.
From a people perspective of the socialengineering that's a slightly more difficult fix because
in general, people want to benice, People want to be helpful,
(28:48):
and you, as a casino staffer, you want to be nice to the
customers that are there. They wantto take Rico's money, so they want
to be like, what do youneed? How can we help you?
Where can we take you? Sofrom a technology perspective, that could have
easily been prevented, it's just thesocial engineering piece that ends up being more
of a challenge for that that's great. And as you guys can see,
(29:11):
man, she's more than just bigwords. She actually knows this stuff right,
and she's got the hair. Yeah, the hair. It is so
as you've been on because I actuallyI actually wanted to talk about your current
role, right, but before weget into that, though, like have
(29:36):
you run into any issues as youhave you been as you've been on your
teche journey, like you know,like like like and and what have you
what have you seen with with withregard to representation of like you know,
females and tech. And because there'sthere's there's a few groups you know to
me, Care's got you know,women and linux. That's that's here in
(29:59):
Saint Pete, Tampa a area alsogot you know members in other places and
stuff like that. And there's athere's a there's a myriad of other you
know, you know, minority basedgroups, right that not they don't just
have minorities, and women in LISSdon't just have women. They actually you
know, played a vital role inme picking up you know, a new
(30:19):
skill set. So but but tothe question, though, have you seen
uh a sheer lack of representation?And then it has that? Has that
shifted or grown any So I willtell you that for my personal journey,
I have fairly consistently been the onlywoman, the only black person, the
(30:41):
only black woman in a majority ofthe rooms and spaces that I've been in.
My very first job out of collegewas well, my second job,
but my first major job out ofcollege was a software developer at Lockey Martin
and I was joining a team offour males and the manager was like,
(31:03):
she's great, she's phenomenal, wewant her. He went to go have
a conversation with the team, andthe team was like, absolutely not,
we don't want any women in theroom. So he hired me anyway,
and I showed up and I waslike all right, like relax, it's
cool, we're all going to dothe same work. Whatever. And one
of the developers on this team,and I'll never forget him to this day.
We're good friends now. But oneday, because my method of joining
(31:29):
teams is to ask questions to buildcommunity. Right, I can know the
answer, it doesn't matter. It'sthe matter of allowing a person to provide
you with an answer, right.So I asked him a question about something
that he had coded. He hearnto me and he said, if you
were a real software developer, Iwouldn't have to explain this. And I
(31:49):
said, oh, challenge, acceptit. It's a wrap now. So
after that, anything you put out, everything you put, I want to
peer review his stuff. And sothat was pretty consistently. You know how
(32:09):
I approached new teams that I wason. But even now, the role
that I'm in now, it didn'texist before. So I happened to be
the first black chick, the firstchick, the first person in this particular
role, the role that I hadjust previously, same thing. Did you
(32:29):
guys end up being cool? I'mwondering about that. I'm sure everybody else
is wondering. Okay, villain originstory. He used to watch my dog
like we used to. He watched. Yeah, I'm about to say,
(32:50):
did you do that to the punishmentlike, hey, you're gonna watch come
over here and watch my dog whileI go and check your stuff. It
wasn't like that, but he legitimatelywas the only person. And for me,
when I first started in my journey, it was a point of pride
(33:10):
for me to be able to notonly understand what the problem was, but
to be able to articulate it andalso to be able to fix it.
So when he's like, oh,if you were a real software developer,
you I wouldn't have to explain it. Well, first of all, you
didn't have to explain it. Iwas trying to be nice. But secondly,
all right, bet you've been herefor how many years? Give me
three months? I bet I'm outof knock it out fun. So I'm
(33:35):
like on w three schools. I'mstudying four different software languages. I'm doing
research on databases, and SQL queries, and I'm like, all right,
bet because I'm off every book.He got his stuff. I didn't.
I didn't even know people still useW three schools is a huge one.
That's a great tool for somebody startingout. They break it down to a
(33:59):
grade level, and I think theyhave like integrated environments to like test different
things out. They do have alittle exercises you can do. Yeah,
what's your current role if you don'tmind me asking, I just recently accepted
a role as chief cybersecurity officer.Hold on for a second, do it
(34:22):
again? Say it again? Asound effects recently accepted a role as a
chief cybersecurity officer. I thought youwere going to play like like the I
thought you're going to get all Jamaicanin here. No, no, no,
(34:42):
no, we ain't gonna do that. I'm late for a lot of
stuff. We'll fix it in theShody told me how late you were today?
(35:06):
To cut you short today? Allright with a connection. How did
this new road come about? Justusing your magic? Or did you?
It's the hair? Oddly enough,I have I know a little bit about
(35:34):
a lot of things. And oneof my first mentors told me all the
time that I don't have to bean expert in anything. I just have
to understand how to find the resourcesfor it, right. So that has
given me a lot of flexibility tobe able to choose projects that I find
to be interesting or challenging. AndI can move around very freely. I
can demand the salary that I requireto live my lavish lifestyle. And so
(36:00):
this particular role came about because somebodyelse in New Mexico offered me a role
to move over there and set uptheir risk management framework program. And when
I communicated to the company that Iwork for now that I was going to
be leaving, they were like,no, you're not. We're going to
(36:21):
make a space for you here todo what you want to do because we
believe that you understand what we needand that you can do it. So
they made us space and I acceptedit, and now we're here. Have
you ever been in New Mexico?I have been to New Mexico once.
(36:44):
I've never been. Is it likeMexico Mexico? I'm drunk? See yeah.
(37:07):
Oh so mentorship. You mentioned mentorship. Are you currently mentoring anyone?
And do you have a mentor?I mentor a lot of people I have
different mentors for different activities. Honestly, everybody wants me to level up from
(37:29):
where it is that I am.But I kind of enjoy doing random things.
I enjoy being behind the scenes ofthings. I don't need my face
to be front and center because Iwant to put other people in positions of
success, Like I am willing tobe uncomfortable in rooms and to suck it
up to be the only chick,the only black person, whatever, so
(37:52):
I can give somebody else an opportunityto show up. But I don't like
my time to be wasted. Andso that's what I tell everybody Immediately.
I was like, this is afinite, non renewable resource, and I
will give you whatever it is thatyou need for your success, but just
don't waste my time. I don'thave any time for this. And just
everybody's tracking, like, what whatdo you mean specifically by level love?
Is that like going to the Csuite? Well, technically I am in
(38:15):
the C suite now, fine,side hit the button again. Hit them
with the button, all right,I hit the wrong But I need to
put this thing in front of mebecause like it's not working. Chill man,
(38:37):
man, I'm about to kick everybody. I gotta control of it.
You gotta go, we gotta go. That's how it is about to go.
So technically, I am in theC suite right now. I have
five lines of effort that fall undermy direction right now. Uh, and
I mentor all of the people thatfall under those lines of effort. Right
(38:59):
now. I need to hire acouple of more people. But I'm consistently
told that I am underpaid and thatI need to go ahead and open my
own business to do things because withthe people that I know, with the
things that I know, with theorder that I bring, it would be
ideal for me to go and domore, be more, seymore. Yeah.
(39:22):
And that's what they mean when theysay the network is your network.
I told you you get more stuffdone over handshakes than keyboards. That's just
how it goes. That was oneof the first gyms that she dropped way
and I was like, whoa,Okay, that's amazing. Yeah, And
all she gotta do is just shakeher head, man, Jim, just
(39:42):
stuff popping out of the hair.Man. I'm telling you, bro,
like stick around this girl. AndI'm not try it, bro, I'm
not even gonna try. Just tripover my damn buttons. Somebody else make
the sound effects. We can't relyit, just do it with your mind
beatboxing. But but speaking of likeebony dropping gems and mentorship and all other
(40:05):
stuff, how do you fellow outpeople reaching out to you if they have
questions, a little hopefuls and stufflike that. I want to feel these
voids and and fix rectify this lackof representation that we see in the industry.
I mean, are you opening upYou're just gonna be standing with information?
Oh? No to that question.So what I'm going to suggest is
(40:35):
that maybe we reach out to Ricoand then appropriately that, like I could
be like the second line of defensehere. So hit me up and I
will sing y'all information. You knowwhat? F on LinkedIn? A docs
on LinkedIn. Absolutely I have aquestion for you. How do you feel
(41:00):
about the slipper zero devices? Uh? So, I had an opportunity to
play with one over the summer.Hacker Warehouse sells them and they sold out
pretty quickly. I think that itis interesting. I also think it could
be a real problem when they sellthem pre programmed, especially in the casino
(41:24):
space. I just grab one.That's why I asked, and I was
like, thee them pre programmed,Yeah, you know how to use it.
I literally just grabbed a friend ofmine is just send it to me.
I'm a pro, he said,program it to whatever you want it
and basically move through the menu,install your own. Yeah, you a
lot of shit with them. Ihaven't played with them personally. I just
(41:45):
got it, so yeah, II like to play with new technology,
but it doesn't keep my attention forvery long because I'm doing too many other
things. But during the summer Istill work at hacker Warehouse at the table
over in Death Coon and we sellall sides are fun things. So if
there's other things to interest you,you can go over to the hacker Warehouse
(42:07):
and you can probably find most thingspre programmed there as well. You're the
dollar master at Besides right, Yes, do you guys offer scholarships or any
like? How would someone get involvedwith that, like on a volunteer basis
or how do they how would theysupport that show? Yes, my official
(42:32):
title at Besides Las Vegas is gearGoddess and Goddess Goddess write that down one
of the things. Write it down. Make sure you write it down.
You already miss yeah with a G. Yeah, double D anyway. One
of the things that I always suggest, yeah, that's focus, focus,
(43:06):
h you know you can edit.One of the things that I always mentioned
on initial interest is to volunteer atwhatever b sides is close to you,
because besides, is only like twentyfive dollars to show up, and it's
a worthwhile investment because even if youmeet two people, those two people probably
know twelve other people that are goingto be beneficial on your journey. And
(43:30):
for me, I'm an introvert,so I don't really like talking to people,
but it's worth the sacrifice if youare actually trying to do something of
some importance now. And with respectto your question specifically for Beside Slas Vegas,
we do not offer specific scholarships.However, if you volunteer for four
(43:51):
or more hours, you get accessto the conference for free, and if
you volunteer for eight or more hours, you can share a room with one
of the other volunteers that besides SUSVegas will pay for. So really it's
just a matter of you getting outto Vegas with your flight or with your
bus or with your hitchhiking, whicheverthe case may be. And then you'll
(44:14):
be there. And it's ideal toespecially for people who are introvers that don't
like to talk. In general,it's ideal to start as a volunteer because
you can show up, you havespecific task, you can feel successful when
you meet these tasks, and youalso have an opportunity to just talk to
people and figure out what they doand what you like and what you don't
(44:35):
like, and wander around and seehow those things set up. There are
other opportunities that exist too, Solike in DC at Schmukhan that's happening in
a couple of weeks right now,but they have a networking lab, So
if you don't know anything about networking, you can volunteer to go into the
networking lab and you can learn howto make cables, and you can learn
(44:59):
how to run cables, and youcan learn how to track traffic. And
there's a lot of opportunities. Sofind an organization that's close to you and
volunteer. Get in there, likereal quick. Yeah, what is that
about shmoh c away? Is itabout networking or is that just one thing
(45:22):
that they kind of that's just oneaspect of that particular conference that is phenomenal.
Schmukhan is actually really difficult to getinto because they only sell like maybe
one hundred maybe two hundred tickets.So it yeah, they go, they
release the ticket, They start releasingthe tickets I think in October, and
they release them in like fifty Theylike release fifty at a time over the
(45:45):
course of like three months or somethinglike that. Hold on, hold time
time. I hell no, howyou say they only have one hundred tickets,
they release them in batches of fifty, I say a hundred of two
hundred. I caaid one hundred ticketsto take to take winded. Never mind,
(46:08):
we got time, We got wetnow that we're gonna edit out,
So catch, we're looking stupid.Ukon is actually really difficult to get into
because they only sell like maybe onehundred maybe two hundred tickets. So catch,
(46:30):
we look at stupid. Yeah,So they released them in batches of
fifty. And so it's a verysmall conference, so everyone that's there,
you have an opportunity to mix andmingle and converse, and they have the
networking labs, which I think wasit was really beneficial for me because I
(46:51):
wasn't really strong in networking, sounderstanding what each of the cables did and
actually like stripping cables and building newcables and plugging and routers and stuff for
the conference for the conference to operatelike real steaks. So you was like
volunteering and helping the set up pieceof it or is that just a part
of the lab. That's that's justa part of the lab for the for
(47:14):
the conference. So I mean there'slots of there's lots of things that can
be done. And if you reachout to Rico, he can find me
and then I'll just give you alist of things that you can go there.
Look, look I'm gonna say somethingI don't you know, but you
are quick with it. That wasgood. You went all the way back
(47:35):
connecting the conversation. I was like, oh, you know how you somebody
how people talk? Hey girl,you need to keep up keeping up many
man dollar dollar dollar dollar, uhdollar master and gear god is very much
earned and you know titles. Soshe's she's definitely got it. Any any
(47:59):
anything saying you want to you know, kind of leave the people with like
basing your experience. I mean,actually, I mean we've got a little
bit more time. I'm curious toknow, like, what kind of obstacles
you know? What do you whatare your major obstacles that you've encountered.
I often find that I don't thinkthat I'm technical enough, and even more
(48:24):
than that, when I show uplooking like this, because this is like
my regular work workhouses, showing uplooking like this, they often don't believe
that I'm in the role that I'mint So I have to really quickly understand
(48:47):
a lot of technical pieces that I'mnot necessarily familiar with. I tell everybody
all the time that I know alittle bit. I'm an expert at nothing.
I'm mediocre at plenty of things,and so that's usually the obstacle that
I have, being mediocre. Sois that imposter syndrome or is that just
(49:07):
confident? I mean, what doyou think that is? I think that
it's a little bit of imposters syndromebecause the challenge is that I end up
being in places with a wide varietyof people. I end up talking to
CEOs and doing business development, andthen I have to talk to system admins
(49:27):
and figure out how to align accounts, and then I'm talking to dev sech
ops engineers and turning out the troubleshootingpipelines, and so for me, I
understand that I can't know all ofthese things, and I don't actually need
to know all of these things.But for each of the people that I'm
talking to, they're like, weexpect answers. Why don't you have them?
(49:52):
Gota, so I have a questionfor you. So I get all
right, perfect, I get alot of people hit me. Able was
like, I'm not a I'm notin cyber I'm a network slash devl ops
don And a lot of them cometo me like I want to get in
a cybersecurity I'm like, okay,what would you What would you say to
(50:12):
somebody that's asking they want to getin a cybersecurity what do they want to
do? And that's I would sendthem to cybersek dot org and I would
have them wander around and look atsome of the positions that are associated with
cyber and see if anything interest them. I would have them volunteer at a
(50:32):
couple of conferences and talk to peopleto see what they're passionate about and to
see some different opportunities that arise.And then if they are looking to be
certified, I would send them tothe CompTIA certification roadmap to figure out what
that looks like and where they canjump to. And then lastly I would
(50:54):
send them to well, depending onwho I'm talking to, because if they're
legitimately new and transitioning, I'm goingto send them to those first couple of
places. But if they are init already and they're just trying to figure
out their next steps, I typicallyrecommend leveraging the risk management framework as a
(51:15):
way to expand your understanding of thepolicies surrounding cybersecurity, and then you can
delve into the specific areas associated withcybersecurity once you understand where those policies reside.
So and the risk management framework isfairly consistently a solid space for jobs
anyway. So dope, I meanyou've dropped enough information. I mean,
(51:42):
from what it sounds like, fromthe things you've kind of put us onto
besides smokon and the various ways thatyou can get involved with those programs for
free, for the most part,it sounds like the barrier of entries is
significantly lower and it's historically been andthe one thing that's probably in most people's
(52:04):
way is going to be them absolutelya million percent. Is that a real
thing? A million? It is? It is in fact herself, no
question. Oh you know if youif Everily was a rapper, they say
she have bars, she got bars. Bars are soap. Wow. Wow,
(52:28):
the malice in your heart because he'strying to let it go. It's
fine trying to get back. Letthem have that. It's cool. I'm
struggling, man, I think I'mfinding like meat meal and that dialt with
Drake, it's like it's like you'retrying to find a good retort and it's
not. It's not always work.So with that being said, we go
(52:54):
No. There are what seems likea lot of barriers to entry. But
if you're allowing a no to turnyou around, then you don't want to
do it in first place. That'sstraight up. And so like I said,
you have to get outside of yourcomfort zone. You have to get
(53:14):
outside of your comfort area, andas you continuously grow anyway, you have
to find ways to be comfortable inthat uncomfortableness. So, yeah, if
you want to do something, it'sabsolutely we can do We can do that.
That's not a problem. There's somany organizations you mentioned two that are
in this area already, like youreally don't have any excuse, gotcha.
(53:39):
Well, unless you guys have anyother part in thongs, we can I
think we can cut it. No, it was. It was a great
great to meet you. You obviouslyhave Metrico before, because I mean,
damn uh you guys, you guysreally right? Yeah, she she,
(54:02):
she comes to our officer access tothe networks, Think you much? My
name is it gonna It's gonna beJo. So, man, I don't
get bullied no more. Man,I'm grown up. Man, I got
I gotta get out of here.I got I got I gotta wait.
(54:27):
Wait before you leave, Man,let me, let me, let me
stop the take so I can letthings roll up.
I have. You know, Ihave multiple compliments on my hair and outfit
today, Thank you very much fromwho the trolls? Oh what what's a
little paintroll name? You gotta hitthe button, dude, you gotta hit
the button. Rico, which onethe one you were playing early? That
(00:27):
one? It's too late now,it's not funny. I like it though,
I know, I know it's Iknow it's like but but seriously though,
I like it though, because that'sthat's the way my daughter used to
wear how when she was a littleI used to love with hair like my
moon would like pull it back andlike with the little thing and it just
be like puffed up. I lovethat, jont man. I mean,
(00:48):
this is like a custom haircut forcurly hair. Today. I just happened
to let it be there. Shakeit one time. I want to shake.
I'm like, it's so bouncy,it's all too I'm bad, like
I want to do. You havecertain people come and say, who can
(01:10):
I touch it? I have someonethat wants to touch it once a month,
his wife. His wife brings himto me, so you can touch
it real. My wife would bringme over there. That's not awkward.
(01:30):
Absolutely, it is awkward, sir, you're fine. You have any questions
before we start? No, no, no question. I mean we already
discussed that this camera is supposed tobe on. So yeah, I wish
I had know that that how Iwas gonna be like that before I suggested
(01:51):
that we're here? Now we're herenow, right, it's serious. Good
one, look man, a goodone, y'all. Anybody that knows me,
anybody that knows me know how Ifeel about natural hair, so they
know this is all cat. It'sjust me being stupid. Okay, I
(02:13):
have another Cat Williams joint going onhere for real. I wish I could
be that controversial man, But Imean I'm one. I'm not that smart
a dude smart, but this ain'tabout cat. This is quick distracted me.
Make you see? You know I'mdistractable, all right, folkus center
(02:42):
mm hmm okay, So you readyit's gonna start playing music and then I
should be quiet? Is that?What is that? What what it would
take? That's all I need?That's all. It's required music. I
thought that much. Anyway, It'sfine, we'll start talking and see if
it works. Say some no,I'm good. I can't take no lost.
(03:10):
Ye I don't even know where theyhit the ground. Then to go
off, ya hit the ground,then to go off, Champ. I
can't take no loss. Yeff.All right, guys, welcome back to
the show. Thank you guys forjoining us again on another episode of Them
Tech Folks. I'm Rico Rental,your host, and I'm joined by two
of my my co hosts, twoof the gym. Yeah, are you
(03:36):
guys, tech folks? Here areyou guys, my colleagues, my tech
folks, Reginald Davis, and wegot Kenny Lewis right here. Reginald shout
out, yeah, the host ofthe host of the most uh uh calories.
Go ahead. You did not rehearse, obviously you're not rehearsed. What
(03:59):
everybody? Okay? Cool? Allright, So we're sitting here with them,
Miss Ebony, right, Evan,if you don't mind h introducing yourself
to the people so we know whoyou are and just a little bit of
where you come from. Hi,my name is Ebony. I met Rico
(04:24):
a couple of months ago and hetold me that he had this amazing podcast
and I should be on it.And I was like, all right,
that's cool. I am a softwareDeveloper by degree Computer Science, minors in
math and Jewish Studies, Master's InformationSystem Security. I carried like twelve different
certifications and all types of security andI know a little bit about a lot
(04:46):
of things. For a second,so Jewish studies, Yes, so will
offending you get us canceled? Iwas gonna say like that, I didn't.
That was a curve ball I ain'tsee coming right there. I want
to apologize that everything I said aboutyour hair before we started, man only
got like nine episodes because you neverknow. Now you know, the show's
(05:11):
a baby. Don't hurt the baby. Just apologize to all the juice,
I mean early. Just get thoseapologies in early, and then you can
be as offensive as you want.I'm sure that's okay. But but but
seriously, though, absolutely, Ebanyis a great person. I actually just
recently, you know, was introducedto Ebany. She would rutiniely come to
(05:36):
our office for work stuff and justyou know, talking about people. But
anyway, this isn't about me andhow I know Ebony or Ebony and how
she knows me. This is aboutEbony. So ebany where are you from?
Let's let's start with that one whereyou're from I'm from Washington, d
(05:56):
C. Washington, d C.And how did you end up getting introduced
to tech? What was your firsttime? Was it like a microwave love
and that you fixed or it wasnot a microwave ove and that I fixed.
My mom insisted that I needed friendsto get out of the house,
and so she signed me up fora hardware program at the University of the
(06:17):
District of Columbia. And so whenI went to the hardware program, we
basically built robots and we did abunch of like the little digital parts,
the packages where you can like plugin capacitors and solder them and they light
up and stuff. And so Idid that for two consecutive summers and I
(06:38):
really enjoyed it. And then afterthat I started a computer science program during
the summer and then I've just kindof been doing it stuff since then.
How old were you when you weredoing this with those kind of like like
the original adrinos or raz reck pilesor something like that. Yeah, I
started when I was like twelve,But also I'm not that old, so
(06:59):
watching it, okay, did thisconversation either, Okay? Trying to get
us all in trouble that's what tellyou, man, I mean, if
you'll want a guess, so I'lllet you guess. No, we don't
want to guess because I'm I'm abad guess or anyways, I'm a horrible
(07:20):
guess. So you got involved inthat in you know, at twelve,
right, So in between being twelveand playing with these kids and then going
to college right for tech, whatwere you doing in that time frame?
(07:41):
So Tuskegee University has a summer programfor teenagers, and I attended two summer
courses for computer science, and forthose two summer courses, they gave us
college credits and scholarships. So Istarted to my computer science degree and took
Skegee University. The unfortunate circumstances thatTuskege is really good for a lot of
(08:07):
things, but their computer science programwas not ideal. So I transferred to
another university where I also picked upthis Jewish studies minor, and then I
graduated with a degree in computer science, a minor in math, and a
minor in Jewish studies. And whatmade you go with the math and Jewish
(08:28):
studies? So originally I had startedwith a double major of electrical engineering and
computer science, but I was workingovernight and paying for school, so it
got to be a little much.So the miners ended up being more convenient,
and the minors were necessitated by moneyfor college, so they were paying
for my books and stuff, andI just had to take a couple of
(08:48):
classes to cover electives and so thatwas a win. I love it,
man. And if you can throwmore of those college words and that,
that would be great. People lovethat kind of stuff made college words.
I mean, if if kids arelike getting ready of for s a T
they can just listen to all stuff. Man, It's true. I get
(09:09):
that a lot. Yeah, yeah, learn from it's the complexities of the
of the of the of the conversations. I think I like them when she
do it, But it's the principalit's the principalities of the principality inventing words
(09:31):
and stuff. Uh. That's dope, man, that's really dope. So
coming out of college, how didyou end up getting your first job?
What was that like an internship ordid you have your first job before college?
I'm curious, I did. Ihave had several jobs. I'm kind
(09:52):
of process oriented, so every jobthat I'm always hired for I end up
kind of leading the process of howto improve IT. But my first real
IT job was in the casino.Because it was convenient, I was able
to work overnight and then go toschool all day. So in the casino
I ended up being an overnight backupoperator. So as an overnight backup operator,
(10:16):
you're responsible for backing up all ofthe operations within the casino, making
sure that all of the slot machinesare working, making sure that all the
cameras are functioning, making sure thatwe're taking regular backups from the hotel,
and that sort of thing. Soit was really helpful to start to do
that and understand the IT operations ona lot of different levels outside of just
the software development that I was doingduring the day. So go ahead.
(10:41):
I was gonna say, it's aneasy way. I can, you know,
get get a hone in on yourage. Did you use tapes?
Tape? It's actually not an easyway. The casino prefers to use tapes.
Okay, But if this is goingto be a distraction to everyone years
(11:01):
old, I thought you was gonnasay, like seventeen or something. No,
no, this is going to bea distraction. It's not gonna be
a distraction. Perfect because everybody knows. Now, I used to be a
tape. I used to be editthat out tape. It was fun stuff.
(11:22):
So why why did they go?What does they why do they why
do they like? Why do theyprefer tape? Take it off site?
Right? Yes? Yeah? AndI used to be. Yeah. In
this particular case, I used towork for Harros Entertainment, uh in New
Jersey. So they had five differentcasinos they were responsible for. So they
(11:45):
would bundle all of the tapes fromthe casinos for particular nights and then they
would go and ship them somewhere elselike that. That's what I learned about
tapes. Okay, So casino,when you have an approached, you know,
uh, I don't know what's goingon. I don't know what's going
(12:09):
on. How to edit that out? Have you been approached and just cheeve?
I mean you know how people werelike, you know, jugle loud.
Yeah, let's not do that,let's not do that. So you
said you did nighttime was a casinodaytime software development? Was that in college
or did you have another job?No, that was in college. That
(12:30):
was for school. I had aninternship during the day with fun of fine
software instructors, and then at nightI will work in the casino to pay
for school all day full time aparttime full time. Wow, So you
were working eight hours at night,like eight hours eight hour days at night
and then going to school. Iwas working eight to twelve hour nights.
(12:54):
So did you. I'm assuming youhad a lot of know, those a
lot of coffee. No, becauseman, no. And actually at some
point I ended up not having anyhousing, so I had to like sleep
in my car for a while.And the casino very conveniently. They have
uniforms, they have showers, theyhave food, so like literally the whole
(13:18):
intention of the employees that work thereis to have you not have to leave
so you can take breaks, yougo get coffee, you walk around,
you get some fresh air. Butif you enjoy your work, it's really
not that big of a deal.For us working in the back as backup
operators, we got to see everythingbut never had to interact with people,
(13:39):
so it was very convenient. Soit's like watching a movie for most of
the time that you're there. Yourun a couple of backups, and you
know, yeah, and I thinkand Kenny, you said you was a
backup person too. I was,I did backups too. You really have
to understand all the technologies to doto be an effective backup technician. So
(14:00):
if any I mean, I don'tknow if anybody, if the backup technician
is really like a thing like itused to be. But if you were,
if you want to get a broadscope of technology, definitely backup person
because you have to know how everythingworks. Everything backs up. So yeah,
that's a great, great, greatplace to get a good breath of
technology. I was just I was. So the reason for my question about
(14:22):
why they preferred backup tapes was I'veheard like some r stories about like back
up one in particular. I forgotwhat kind of organization it was, but
that what they would do is theywould back it up and the guy that
took the backups off site, youknow, he would take them by subway,
right, and they find out whenthey needed the tapes, you know,
(14:48):
the restore it will blink, ohyeah, so retracing you know,
the activities they found that when hewent to the cell, he would sit
him down on the ground, right, the vibrations of the magnetism or something
like that within the subway transit wasjust wiping the tapes, you know,
kind of like coul Begauser, youknow what I mean. And so you
(15:13):
know, it's like why you know, with everything being so interconnected, why
you know, I'm sure because withall the money that casinos take from me
personally, I'm fun and all theinfrastruction they got, they can do it.
They can afford it. Just haveyou know, redundant sites, you
know, between casinos, So someof their some of the casinos have changed
(15:35):
their processes in terms of the waythat that operates. But part of the
challenge is that transitioning into like mypresent career is from a cybersecurity perspective,
if you don't understand how the datais being transferred and where the data is
being transferred, and who has accessto the data, it's still easier to
(15:56):
fall back on an old school methodthan to put everything up in the cloud,
because now you put everything up inthe cloud, you have these shared
instances or whatever the case may be, and who has access to the way
that the casino operates, who hasaccess to the tapes, who has access
to the videos that have been recorded, who has access to CCTV to wipe
these different spaces down? I meanyou watch Oceans eleven where they're like looping
(16:19):
videos and that sort of thing.So some casinos would still prefer to go
old school rather than oh well,let's just have an off site backup that
doesn't automatically every single night. Right, you think it's just like being married
to the past or is there likejust is there like a technical reason that
(16:40):
you feel that that makes logical sense. I don't think it's a technical reason
that makes logical sense. I thinkthat it's historically a people oriented reason as
to why that happens, because you'llhave people that have been there for years
and this is how they've always doneit, and they can't trust anything else,
so they just stay with it.I love it. Oh in Great
(17:02):
Segua, by the way, butgo ahead, no, I was want
to say. Somebody asked the question. Carlton asked, speaking casinos, how
could we have prevented what happened inVegas from a cybersecurity standpoint? Which time
you all right? Which time thatsomething happened? What happened in Vegas?
(17:30):
What's the last one? I rememberthe last one, but the latest one
I don't remember. Oh oh,he's talking about the Okay, I know
he's talking about it. I don'tknow what we're talking about. Yeah,
so that was there was a recenthack. There was a reason hack in
Vegas. I'm not an employed Icouldn't remember what it was. But Carlton,
(17:52):
if you can't, just drop itin the chat, Yeah, yeah,
dropping in chair. I'm sure shedon't have to answer because she ain't
worked with casinos. I don't havethe answers, but I go to I
go to Vegas every year for HackerSummer Camp and wow, okay, I'm
actually the quartermaster besides Las Vegas.So come on out whenever you are over
(18:14):
in Vegas. Exactly every single year. Inevitably, they the people that go
out there have broken the encryption,they have broken the key cards, They've
duplicated casino host keys to access backrooms, They've social engineered their way behind
stage. Like, there's so manythings that happen all of the time.
(18:37):
And part of the reason for that, of course, is that there's never
a really defined outline of all ofthe lines of effort that need to be
protected across the entire casino. Everybodyassumes that these responsibilities are delegated appropriately and
everyone is doing what they need todo, but inevitably there are gaps that
exist because people are just being nice, people are unaware, people are overworked,
(19:03):
people are tired, whatever the casemay be. We don't understand the
technology configurations the way that they shouldbe. However, many years ago,
when they decided to install the WiFi thermometer in the aquarium and never bothered
to put a password on it,so you have access to admin across the
entire network. Is things like that. Can you say you're an ambassador of
(19:26):
B sides? Quarter master? Oh, quarter mess get it right, get
it right, I'm going now.I know they got B side in Tampa
in April, so yeah, weneed to be on that. Saint Pete
and besides Orlando. Yeah, sohow'd you come about being a quartermaster B
(19:47):
Sides? In twenty thirteen, Igave my first talk on incorporating security into
software engineering at B sides because theyhave a mentorship program where they pay the
first time speakers with long term speakers, and so you get insight on how
to speak well, how to arrangeyour program, how to bring people in
(20:11):
and engage them, that sort ofthing. And so I registered for this
and I volunteered so that my momcould come to my talk. She gets
she did come. Oh god.And when I volunteered, I volunteered in
a quartermaster room. In the sameyear they asked me to be quartermaster.
They're like, you clearly know howto organize things. We don't think that
(20:36):
we know how to do this well, so we like you to do this.
So I think this year will bemy eleventh year being quartermaster. And
in all seriousness is she is very, very legit with that whole thing.
Like I've been down with this clientthat I'm with right now for like what
(20:56):
three or four months, and thenevery comes parraised me around the whole compound,
introduced me to everybody and everybody thatsees ebany. Hey, I'm talking
about like full birds and all kindsof everybody in between. They know everything.
Like she's madam President, so Icall them madam president. She's going
(21:18):
for election whenever she goes on Strogsquartermaster. I mean she was a dollar
master. She get my vote.But quartermass thing that was a stretch.
But we got like seven kids rightoutside. Like he's twisted it too,
(21:48):
don't She don't know me my familyin the stands and no question so check
us out right so when you working, I mean even the casino even now,
right. So, I know there'sbeen a a noted history of cybersecurity
not necessarily being a priority in mostorganizations, you know, but with recent
(22:14):
events like hacks and stuff like that, do you see organizations really turning the
cybersecurity and making it a priority andputting the money behind it and the staff
behind it. Yeah, So acouple of things happen when we say cybersecurity.
(22:37):
Cybersecurity consists of so many moving partsthat really have to be defined and
then interlocked in order to have aneffective program. And so one of the
challenges that I personally experience is thatI find that a lot of people want
to do cybersecurity for money, andthat's never going to be an effective workforce
(23:03):
because their motivation is the money andthey're not particularly interested in what they're doing
or how they're executing. So that'sone of the main challenges. And so
a lot of these companies end upgetting burned when someone gets a security plus
or when someone gets a cast andthey show up and they're like, oh,
well, give me this money,and then they ruin everything and they
(23:25):
leave. So one of my thingsis so sometimes they teach certification classes.
And I'll tell you one of thesecertification classes I was teaching. I was
teaching a Security Plus class and thisguy came late. It was a four
week class only on Saturdays. Hecame in the second week, second Saturday,
and he's like, I just passedmy CEH and I'm ready for the
(23:47):
Security Plus because I need it forwork. And I was like, great,
love that, love this enthusiasm.Let's get started. We get through
the first lesson and he's like,oh, I just had a quick question.
Like absolutely, He's like, what'sa firewall? I'm like, what,
excuse me? You just passed yourwhat? Who? Okay. So
it's things like that that really concernedme because if you work for the federal
(24:11):
government, we work for the DoDand they're like, oh, well,
just go get one of these eightyfive to seventy thirts and we'll put you
onto cybersecurity. That's not a problem, but they're not giving people the experience
that they need, they're not givingpeople the requirements that they need, and
it ends up being a cash grabfor all these certification places. And so
from a cybersecurity perspective, companies arelike, well, I shouldn't be able
(24:33):
to trust these people, and theycan't. They can't. And so until
we have people that are actually qualifiedand not just certified, it's always going
to be a struggle to bring aworkforce and to make this a priority because
so many people have burned so manybridges over this time. And I'll get
off myself box now, no,nons that was fine. Question is this
(25:00):
And I guess you can also callit a concern like I I've heard that
before, right, and I don'tI don't whole hardly disagree. I can
definitely resonate with the position. Andyou know where you're coming from, right
when people say, oh, don'tdo it for the money, but I
mean, yeah, I do itfor the money, you know. But
(25:22):
at the end of the day,I also, you know what, I
went through the process, you know, I went through the process, and
I actually, you know, youknow, built myself with great foundation,
I feel, you know, withmentors, and it took some time.
I learned the things that were requiredwere required of me at the time that
(25:45):
allowed me to understand tech the waythat I do understand it, which I
don't I'm not like you know,tech God and nothing like that. But
I'm pretty I'm pretty good with withwith what I do. So is that
to say that with you say thatyou know it's definitely an issue with money
or that people turn they create anissue by only going for the money and
(26:11):
not you know, really learning totech. They created an issue by only
going for the money. Like Ilike to place people in positions where they're
going to be successful. So thequestion really isn't so much what technology interests
you, but where do your passionslie. Do you like to solve problems?
Do you like talking to people,do you like pulling pieces together?
(26:33):
Do you enjoy puzzles? What arethe foundational things that you really enjoy Because
there's a space for you in everypart of cybersecurity and every part of it.
But you have to understand what thatlooks like because when you chase your
passions, that money gonna come.Like you ain't missing no meals. That's
not an issue. Yeah, Ithink the issue is is like people they
(26:55):
see the look ads and ads videosof the boot camps. You can make
six figures just doing this. Youcan, you can, but they not
just you can, but just notfrom justice in the first three months.
I mean you can, but somepeople just see that and like I want
(27:15):
the money, I don't care aboutthe job. So that's how Yeah,
this is definitely a full conversation initself. So I just I drawed it.
I drotted some notes down because thisis probably like two different episodes like
what we just kind of talked about. So I want to I want to
pull off of that right now,right and we'll revisit it when we bring
(27:37):
Ebony back. But can I justcircle back to Carlton's question earlier, Uh,
casino? Yeah, about the casino, because get that money. It's
really important that you get that engagementis really important. So from the article
that you're saying, I perused itreally quick and it looks like it was
(28:00):
social engineering that transitioned over into aransomware situation. First and foremost, I
tell everyone, as we had thiswhole discussion earlier about backups. If you
are doing consistent backups, if youunderstand the level of the recovery that's required
for your organization, you don't needto pay anything. All you need to
do is shut this down, recoverfrom one of your backups, and then
(28:25):
identify how it is that they gotin, and that should be logging,
that should be auditing, that shouldbe consistent monitoring, and that's the end
of that. From a technology perspective, this is a really easy fix.
From a people perspective of the socialengineering that's a slightly more difficult fix because
in general, people want to benice, People want to be helpful,
(28:48):
and you, as a casino staffer, you want to be nice to the
customers that are there. They wantto take Rico's money, so they want
to be like, what do youneed? How can we help you?
Where can we take you? Sofrom a technology perspective, that could have
easily been prevented, it's just thesocial engineering piece that ends up being more
of a challenge for that that's great. And as you guys can see,
(29:11):
man, she's more than just bigwords. She actually knows this stuff right,
and she's got the hair. Yeah, the hair. It is so
as you've been on because I actuallyI actually wanted to talk about your current
role, right, but before weget into that, though, like have
(29:36):
you run into any issues as youhave you been as you've been on your
teche journey, like you know,like like like and and what have you
what have you seen with with withregard to representation of like you know,
females and tech. And because there'sthere's there's a few groups you know to
me, Care's got you know,women and linux. That's that's here in
(29:59):
Saint Pete, Tampa a area alsogot you know members in other places and
stuff like that. And there's athere's a there's a myriad of other you
know, you know, minority basedgroups, right that not they don't just
have minorities, and women in LISSdon't just have women. They actually you
know, played a vital role inme picking up you know, a new
(30:19):
skill set. So but but tothe question, though, have you seen
uh a sheer lack of representation?And then it has that? Has that
shifted or grown any So I willtell you that for my personal journey,
I have fairly consistently been the onlywoman, the only black person, the
(30:41):
only black woman in a majority ofthe rooms and spaces that I've been in.
My very first job out of collegewas well, my second job,
but my first major job out ofcollege was a software developer at Lockey Martin
and I was joining a team offour males and the manager was like,
(31:03):
she's great, she's phenomenal, wewant her. He went to go have
a conversation with the team, andthe team was like, absolutely not,
we don't want any women in theroom. So he hired me anyway,
and I showed up and I waslike all right, like relax, it's
cool, we're all going to dothe same work. Whatever. And one
of the developers on this team,and I'll never forget him to this day.
We're good friends now. But oneday, because my method of joining
(31:29):
teams is to ask questions to buildcommunity. Right, I can know the
answer, it doesn't matter. It'sthe matter of allowing a person to provide
you with an answer, right.So I asked him a question about something
that he had coded. He hearnto me and he said, if you
were a real software developer, Iwouldn't have to explain this. And I
(31:49):
said, oh, challenge, acceptit. It's a wrap now. So
after that, anything you put out, everything you put, I want to
peer review his stuff. And sothat was pretty consistently. You know how
(32:09):
I approached new teams that I wason. But even now, the role
that I'm in now, it didn'texist before. So I happened to be
the first black chick, the firstchick, the first person in this particular
role, the role that I hadjust previously, same thing. Did you
(32:29):
guys end up being cool? I'mwondering about that. I'm sure everybody else
is wondering. Okay, villain originstory. He used to watch my dog
like we used to. He watched. Yeah, I'm about to say,
(32:50):
did you do that to the punishmentlike, hey, you're gonna watch come
over here and watch my dog whileI go and check your stuff. It
wasn't like that, but he legitimatelywas the only person. And for me,
when I first started in my journey, it was a point of pride
(33:10):
for me to be able to notonly understand what the problem was, but
to be able to articulate it andalso to be able to fix it.
So when he's like, oh,if you were a real software developer,
you I wouldn't have to explain it. Well, first of all, you
didn't have to explain it. Iwas trying to be nice. But secondly,
all right, bet you've been herefor how many years? Give me
three months? I bet I'm outof knock it out fun. So I'm
(33:35):
like on w three schools. I'mstudying four different software languages. I'm doing
research on databases, and SQL queries, and I'm like, all right,
bet because I'm off every book.He got his stuff. I didn't.
I didn't even know people still useW three schools is a huge one.
That's a great tool for somebody startingout. They break it down to a
(33:59):
grade level, and I think theyhave like integrated environments to like test different
things out. They do have alittle exercises you can do. Yeah,
what's your current role if you don'tmind me asking, I just recently accepted
a role as chief cybersecurity officer.Hold on for a second, do it
(34:22):
again? Say it again? Asound effects recently accepted a role as a
chief cybersecurity officer. I thought youwere going to play like like the I
thought you're going to get all Jamaicanin here. No, no, no,
(34:42):
no, we ain't gonna do that. I'm late for a lot of
stuff. We'll fix it in theShody told me how late you were today?
(35:06):
To cut you short today? Allright with a connection. How did
this new road come about? Justusing your magic? Or did you?
It's the hair? Oddly enough,I have I know a little bit about
(35:34):
a lot of things. And oneof my first mentors told me all the
time that I don't have to bean expert in anything. I just have
to understand how to find the resourcesfor it, right. So that has
given me a lot of flexibility tobe able to choose projects that I find
to be interesting or challenging. AndI can move around very freely. I
can demand the salary that I requireto live my lavish lifestyle. And so
(36:00):
this particular role came about because somebodyelse in New Mexico offered me a role
to move over there and set uptheir risk management framework program. And when
I communicated to the company that Iwork for now that I was going to
be leaving, they were like,no, you're not. We're going to
(36:21):
make a space for you here todo what you want to do because we
believe that you understand what we needand that you can do it. So
they made us space and I acceptedit, and now we're here. Have
you ever been in New Mexico?I have been to New Mexico once.
(36:44):
I've never been. Is it likeMexico Mexico? I'm drunk? See yeah.
(37:07):
Oh so mentorship. You mentioned mentorship. Are you currently mentoring anyone?
And do you have a mentor?I mentor a lot of people I have
different mentors for different activities. Honestly, everybody wants me to level up from
(37:29):
where it is that I am.But I kind of enjoy doing random things.
I enjoy being behind the scenes ofthings. I don't need my face
to be front and center because Iwant to put other people in positions of
success, Like I am willing tobe uncomfortable in rooms and to suck it
up to be the only chick,the only black person, whatever, so
(37:52):
I can give somebody else an opportunityto show up. But I don't like
my time to be wasted. Andso that's what I tell everybody Immediately.
I was like, this is afinite, non renewable resource, and I
will give you whatever it is thatyou need for your success, but just
don't waste my time. I don'thave any time for this. And just
everybody's tracking, like, what whatdo you mean specifically by level love?
Is that like going to the Csuite? Well, technically I am in
(38:15):
the C suite now, fine,side hit the button again. Hit them
with the button, all right,I hit the wrong But I need to
put this thing in front of mebecause like it's not working. Chill man,
(38:37):
man, I'm about to kick everybody. I gotta control of it.
You gotta go, we gotta go. That's how it is about to go.
So technically, I am in theC suite right now. I have
five lines of effort that fall undermy direction right now. Uh, and
I mentor all of the people thatfall under those lines of effort. Right
(38:59):
now. I need to hire acouple of more people. But I'm consistently
told that I am underpaid and thatI need to go ahead and open my
own business to do things because withthe people that I know, with the
things that I know, with theorder that I bring, it would be
ideal for me to go and domore, be more, seymore. Yeah.
(39:22):
And that's what they mean when theysay the network is your network.
I told you you get more stuffdone over handshakes than keyboards. That's just
how it goes. That was oneof the first gyms that she dropped way
and I was like, whoa,Okay, that's amazing. Yeah, And
all she gotta do is just shakeher head, man, Jim, just
(39:42):
stuff popping out of the hair.Man. I'm telling you, bro,
like stick around this girl. AndI'm not try it, bro, I'm
not even gonna try. Just tripover my damn buttons. Somebody else make
the sound effects. We can't relyit, just do it with your mind
beatboxing. But but speaking of likeebony dropping gems and mentorship and all other
(40:05):
stuff, how do you fellow outpeople reaching out to you if they have
questions, a little hopefuls and stufflike that. I want to feel these
voids and and fix rectify this lackof representation that we see in the industry.
I mean, are you opening upYou're just gonna be standing with information?
Oh? No to that question.So what I'm going to suggest is
(40:35):
that maybe we reach out to Ricoand then appropriately that, like I could
be like the second line of defensehere. So hit me up and I
will sing y'all information. You knowwhat? F on LinkedIn? A docs
on LinkedIn. Absolutely I have aquestion for you. How do you feel
(41:00):
about the slipper zero devices? Uh? So, I had an opportunity to
play with one over the summer.Hacker Warehouse sells them and they sold out
pretty quickly. I think that itis interesting. I also think it could
be a real problem when they sellthem pre programmed, especially in the casino
(41:24):
space. I just grab one.That's why I asked, and I was
like, thee them pre programmed,Yeah, you know how to use it.
I literally just grabbed a friend ofmine is just send it to me.
I'm a pro, he said,program it to whatever you want it
and basically move through the menu,install your own. Yeah, you a
lot of shit with them. Ihaven't played with them personally. I just
(41:45):
got it, so yeah, II like to play with new technology,
but it doesn't keep my attention forvery long because I'm doing too many other
things. But during the summer Istill work at hacker Warehouse at the table
over in Death Coon and we sellall sides are fun things. So if
there's other things to interest you,you can go over to the hacker Warehouse
(42:07):
and you can probably find most thingspre programmed there as well. You're the
dollar master at Besides right, Yes, do you guys offer scholarships or any
like? How would someone get involvedwith that, like on a volunteer basis
or how do they how would theysupport that show? Yes, my official
(42:32):
title at Besides Las Vegas is gearGoddess and Goddess Goddess write that down one
of the things. Write it down. Make sure you write it down.
You already miss yeah with a G. Yeah, double D anyway. One
of the things that I always suggest, yeah, that's focus, focus,
(43:06):
h you know you can edit.One of the things that I always mentioned
on initial interest is to volunteer atwhatever b sides is close to you,
because besides, is only like twentyfive dollars to show up, and it's
a worthwhile investment because even if youmeet two people, those two people probably
know twelve other people that are goingto be beneficial on your journey. And
(43:30):
for me, I'm an introvert,so I don't really like talking to people,
but it's worth the sacrifice if youare actually trying to do something of
some importance now. And with respectto your question specifically for Beside Slas Vegas,
we do not offer specific scholarships.However, if you volunteer for four
(43:51):
or more hours, you get accessto the conference for free, and if
you volunteer for eight or more hours, you can share a room with one
of the other volunteers that besides SUSVegas will pay for. So really it's
just a matter of you getting outto Vegas with your flight or with your
bus or with your hitchhiking, whicheverthe case may be. And then you'll
(44:14):
be there. And it's ideal toespecially for people who are introvers that don't
like to talk. In general,it's ideal to start as a volunteer because
you can show up, you havespecific task, you can feel successful when
you meet these tasks, and youalso have an opportunity to just talk to
people and figure out what they doand what you like and what you don't
(44:35):
like, and wander around and seehow those things set up. There are
other opportunities that exist too, Solike in DC at Schmukhan that's happening in
a couple of weeks right now,but they have a networking lab, So
if you don't know anything about networking, you can volunteer to go into the
networking lab and you can learn howto make cables, and you can learn
(44:59):
how to run cables, and youcan learn how to track traffic. And
there's a lot of opportunities. Sofind an organization that's close to you and
volunteer. Get in there, likereal quick. Yeah, what is that
about shmoh c away? Is itabout networking or is that just one thing
(45:22):
that they kind of that's just oneaspect of that particular conference that is phenomenal.
Schmukhan is actually really difficult to getinto because they only sell like maybe
one hundred maybe two hundred tickets.So it yeah, they go, they
release the ticket, They start releasingthe tickets I think in October, and
they release them in like fifty Theylike release fifty at a time over the
(45:45):
course of like three months or somethinglike that. Hold on, hold time
time. I hell no, howyou say they only have one hundred tickets,
they release them in batches of fifty, I say a hundred of two
hundred. I caaid one hundred ticketsto take to take winded. Never mind,
(46:08):
we got time, We got wetnow that we're gonna edit out,
So catch, we're looking stupid.Ukon is actually really difficult to get into
because they only sell like maybe onehundred maybe two hundred tickets. So catch,
(46:30):
we look at stupid. Yeah,So they released them in batches of
fifty. And so it's a verysmall conference, so everyone that's there,
you have an opportunity to mix andmingle and converse, and they have the
networking labs, which I think wasit was really beneficial for me because I
(46:51):
wasn't really strong in networking, sounderstanding what each of the cables did and
actually like stripping cables and building newcables and plugging and routers and stuff for
the conference for the conference to operatelike real steaks. So you was like
volunteering and helping the set up pieceof it or is that just a part
of the lab. That's that's justa part of the lab for the for
(47:14):
the conference. So I mean there'slots of there's lots of things that can
be done. And if you reachout to Rico, he can find me
and then I'll just give you alist of things that you can go there.
Look, look I'm gonna say somethingI don't you know, but you
are quick with it. That wasgood. You went all the way back
(47:35):
connecting the conversation. I was like, oh, you know how you somebody
how people talk? Hey girl,you need to keep up keeping up many
man dollar dollar dollar dollar, uhdollar master and gear god is very much
earned and you know titles. Soshe's she's definitely got it. Any any
(47:59):
anything saying you want to you know, kind of leave the people with like
basing your experience. I mean,actually, I mean we've got a little
bit more time. I'm curious toknow, like, what kind of obstacles
you know? What do you whatare your major obstacles that you've encountered.
I often find that I don't thinkthat I'm technical enough, and even more
(48:24):
than that, when I show uplooking like this, because this is like
my regular work workhouses, showing uplooking like this, they often don't believe
that I'm in the role that I'mint So I have to really quickly understand
(48:47):
a lot of technical pieces that I'mnot necessarily familiar with. I tell everybody
all the time that I know alittle bit. I'm an expert at nothing.
I'm mediocre at plenty of things,and so that's usually the obstacle that
I have, being mediocre. Sois that imposter syndrome or is that just
(49:07):
confident? I mean, what doyou think that is? I think that
it's a little bit of imposters syndromebecause the challenge is that I end up
being in places with a wide varietyof people. I end up talking to
CEOs and doing business development, andthen I have to talk to system admins
(49:27):
and figure out how to align accounts, and then I'm talking to dev sech
ops engineers and turning out the troubleshootingpipelines, and so for me, I
understand that I can't know all ofthese things, and I don't actually need
to know all of these things.But for each of the people that I'm
talking to, they're like, weexpect answers. Why don't you have them?
(49:52):
Gota, so I have a questionfor you. So I get all
right, perfect, I get alot of people hit me. Able was
like, I'm not a I'm notin cyber I'm a network slash devl ops
don And a lot of them cometo me like I want to get in
a cybersecurity I'm like, okay,what would you What would you say to
(50:12):
somebody that's asking they want to getin a cybersecurity what do they want to
do? And that's I would sendthem to cybersek dot org and I would
have them wander around and look atsome of the positions that are associated with
cyber and see if anything interest them. I would have them volunteer at a
(50:32):
couple of conferences and talk to peopleto see what they're passionate about and to
see some different opportunities that arise.And then if they are looking to be
certified, I would send them tothe CompTIA certification roadmap to figure out what
that looks like and where they canjump to. And then lastly I would
(50:54):
send them to well, depending onwho I'm talking to, because if they're
legitimately new and transitioning, I'm goingto send them to those first couple of
places. But if they are init already and they're just trying to figure
out their next steps, I typicallyrecommend leveraging the risk management framework as a
(51:15):
way to expand your understanding of thepolicies surrounding cybersecurity, and then you can
delve into the specific areas associated withcybersecurity once you understand where those policies reside.
So and the risk management framework isfairly consistently a solid space for jobs
anyway. So dope, I meanyou've dropped enough information. I mean,
(51:42):
from what it sounds like, fromthe things you've kind of put us onto
besides smokon and the various ways thatyou can get involved with those programs for
free, for the most part,it sounds like the barrier of entries is
significantly lower and it's historically been andthe one thing that's probably in most people's
(52:04):
way is going to be them absolutelya million percent. Is that a real
thing? A million? It is? It is in fact herself, no
question. Oh you know if youif Everily was a rapper, they say
she have bars, she got bars. Bars are soap. Wow. Wow,
(52:28):
the malice in your heart because he'strying to let it go. It's
fine trying to get back. Letthem have that. It's cool. I'm
struggling, man, I think I'mfinding like meat meal and that dialt with
Drake, it's like it's like you'retrying to find a good retort and it's
not. It's not always work.So with that being said, we go
(52:54):
No. There are what seems likea lot of barriers to entry. But
if you're allowing a no to turnyou around, then you don't want to
do it in first place. That'sstraight up. And so like I said,
you have to get outside of yourcomfort zone. You have to get
(53:14):
outside of your comfort area, andas you continuously grow anyway, you have
to find ways to be comfortable inthat uncomfortableness. So, yeah, if
you want to do something, it'sabsolutely we can do We can do that.
That's not a problem. There's somany organizations you mentioned two that are
in this area already, like youreally don't have any excuse, gotcha.
(53:39):
Well, unless you guys have anyother part in thongs, we can I
think we can cut it. No, it was. It was a great
great to meet you. You obviouslyhave Metrico before, because I mean,
damn uh you guys, you guysreally right? Yeah, she she,
(54:02):
she comes to our officer access tothe networks, Think you much? My
name is it gonna It's gonna beJo. So, man, I don't
get bullied no more. Man,I'm grown up. Man, I got
I gotta get out of here.I got I got I gotta wait.
(54:27):
Wait before you leave, Man,let me, let me, let me
stop the take so I can letthings roll up.
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