014: Interview with Samuel Tillman the SRE

Samuel Tillman shares his journey from a troubled youth to becoming a successful SRE (Site Reliability Engineer) with the NBA. He discusses his early life, military experience, and how he got interested in technology. Samuel talks about his transition to civilian life and the challenges he faced in finding IT jobs. He also highlights the importance of diversity in the workplace and how the NBA embraces it. Finally, he shares his transition to DevOps and SRE roles and emphasizes the value of self-study and continuous learning in the tech industry. In this part of the conversation, the speakers discuss the rise of AI in the news and the importance of staying updated on new technologies. They also talk about the base requirements and certifications for becoming a Site Reliability Engineer (SRE). The conversation then moves on to learning the cloud and infrastructure as code, with a focus on using Terraform for infrastructure deployment. The speakers also discuss working with managed Kubernetes clusters and the importance of mentoring and helping others in the IT industry. The conversation covers various topics related to learning and working in the IT industry, with a focus on opportunities for growth and development.

Takeaways:

• AI is a rapidly evolving field that is constantly in the news, and it is important for IT professionals to stay updated on new technologies.
• To become an SRE, it is important to have a strong foundation in networking and to obtain relevant certifications such as CompTIA's A+, Network+, and Security+.
• Learning the cloud and infrastructure as code is essential for SREs, and tools like Terraform can be used to deploy and manage infrastructure.
• Choosing a cloud provider and becoming familiar with their platform is crucial for SREs, and it is recommended to start with the cloud provider that aligns with your existing skills and experience.
• Managed Kubernetes clusters are becoming more common, and it is important for SREs to understand how to work with them.
• Mentoring and helping others in the IT industry is a valuable way to give back and contribute to the community. Cura Labs in New York offers a free bootcamp for learning DevOps.
• Some individuals can go from zero to hero in just six months with the right training and resources.
• New York provides great opportunities for IT professionals, with high-paying jobs and access to industry leaders.
• Keeping cloud services running is a crucial role in the IT industry, ensuring that applications are always available.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/dem-tech-folks--5753456/support.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Missus Samuel Tillman, and Samuel Tillian'suh S re SYR Reliability engineer with the
NBA, And he's going to talkabout how he got to that that role,
how he got interesed in in tech, and how his path kind of,
you know, moved with the thingsthat were going on in his life
at the time. So how didI start Innichi? For me, it's

(00:24):
a little bit different. I didn'tcode as a kid. I'm forty two.
I was born in eighty To behonest, man, I was in
the streets, super happy, gota spelled from school in tenth eleventh grade,
went to get my gend from now, joined the army, and the

(00:45):
rest is history. I product computerin the army. That's why I first
learned about PC's servers all of that. We had one in the household.
But it's more like, uh,I mean Naughty nine were doing too much
with PC's back then. So uh, I first runed the Windows Unius X

(01:08):
all that stuff up in the military. It was nineteen ninety nine. So
yeah, your job in the militarywas working with computer systems. Yeah,
I was a stunning for PROVO thatwas an information system operator analyst. So
Basically we worked on anything from PCsto servers and some routing and switches at

(01:30):
times. My first job was actuallymanaging exchange farm that we had that ran
a software called Defense Messaging System thatwe used to uh secure messages. Was
the cold of the first I rememberit's the PKI, you know what I'm
saying. So, uh, thatwas my first big job in the military
and doing that so so so youdidn't get you didn't get your diploma right

(01:53):
out right, you not having togo back and get your g ED.
And even outside of getting g D, I'm assuming you did it on your
own. You managed to score prettywell. And as I mean, they
don't just get it's not like anaverage type of job. Yeah, I
wasn't dumb. I I can't takeno loss. I don't even know where

(02:17):
it crossed. I hit the groundthe in to go off chance hit the
ground, the to go off chap. I can't take no loss. I
don't even know what the cross Ihit the ground then and go off.
Cha hit the ground in harvest andall that out there and whatnot. There
was a little hit up in theelementary school, but speak impediment and I

(02:37):
thought I was uh learning in Parisfor a little while until I did some
walk on that, but just gettingin trouble a lot, man in front
of me, fight, all thekind of stuff, you know, this
regular on neighborhood stuff, you knowwhat I mean. Did you have somebody
was it like somebody in life thatkind of like said, hey, you

(02:59):
need to you know, look atwhat you're doing, and that kind of
thing that makes you go back inand look at the military. Yeah,
my father was there, so so, and I got in trouble like I
was from two parent household good house. Uh wasn't my uh you know,
from the hood whatever, but likenot like you know, it wasn't comptent
or anything. Although we did livein La for a little while, but

(03:20):
it wasn't like crazy. I wasa muffle ahead, you know, getting
no trouble here and there no policeinteractions, living out and then you know
things like that. So I begetting expelled from school twice in two years,
and I actually caught it a reallybig case that kind of got me
a lot of trouble. After that, I kind of sat myself down,
worked with my dad for a littlewhile while getting in my ged and started

(03:46):
started looking joining the Army. Ikind of always wanted to go, it's
wanted to go in a different way, but uh, you know, the
opportunity came to dad's rab scored well, and my dad and my my dad's
friend who was in this stry atmy church also recruited for the army.
They kind of guided me into thearmy and made sure that I was good
to go. Kind of you know, did me a solid with that job

(04:10):
choice. Gotcha, gotcha, andyou just kind of like picked right and
jumped right into it. Like sofor me, I was the same way,
you know, but just on theMIL the Marine Corps side of the
house like I was. I feltlike I was like last in class when
I was going through school. Idon't know, man, I put it
up pretty well, you know,Like we had a PC in the house,

(04:30):
that radio shack. So he broughta PC home. I tady home
one day, you know, andI would like try to make like a
beats or whatever like with back dandit's a software called Beethoven's fifth or whatever
recreated like one of the million.Finally, yeah, I made that track
over again. Whatever. So Isay, the only thing I did,
you know with computers, I didhave to put it in my own CD

(04:53):
drive, you know what I mean. But that was about it. I
wasn't like a computer that I wastrying to do with the things. You
know. When I got it,when I kind of took to it,
it was fun, you know whatI mean. And it was weird.
There were guys that I was ina I t with. I would see
the school part of the military withthe army experience, or you go to
basically your actual job and I It for those who don't know, but

(05:16):
I went there and there were guyswho were like, oh, yeah,
I've been doing this coding even backthen. I've been coding all my life.
And I'm like, what are youGuys like you had computers when you
get old? Wow? Like Internet, I wasn't like but I didn't get
it. I just didn't get it. You know. It was weird to
me. But uh, I tookto it pretty well. You know,
whatever they had us learned. Youknow, I can read, you know,

(05:40):
I got always people would I.If you can read the comprehend,
you can do anything you want todo. Like it's you can be a
senior engineer or a c c IE. If you're doing Cisco like long
as you if you can read andyou can follow direction from anyone to do.
In my opinion, I appreciate thatman Like people think it's so complicated,
but it is. Is that ifyou can read, understand what you're

(06:02):
reading, and apply it. Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. Yeah, it's
pretty much. It's gonna take sometime. You know, you ain't gonna
just like read something in fifteen minutesand start writing your own programs and stuff
like that. It is. Itis literally that simple. So so you
stayed in the in the army andyou do like a single listman, you

(06:26):
know, Yeah, I did.I did six years in the army.
We'd around a couple couple of times, some good hoigh speed units and I
actually had a medical issue prepared tome for continue and well from real listing.
So I got out and oh fiveand actually got a job working at
one of my dad's friends, TMobile stores. So I worked at Mobile

(06:49):
for a little while, kind ofsupported on the sales for maintaining an actual
retail man retail in the army,I was weird, like I did well
in my job. I learned thingslike I ran email for whole posts,
I did a lot of like coolstuff whatever, but I didn't know what

(07:11):
I was doing. I didn't knowhow to translate that from the military stuff
to the civilian stuff. So Iwould going to interviews expect them to kill
it. No, I want tocrash the interview, you know, and
I would bomb. I mean,I was tanking like badly because I didn't
know terminology. I wasn't really confident, you know, and like translating my

(07:33):
skills over to the civilian world.Yet I didn't know how to do that,
you know. And I really didn'thave anyone to show me until later
on as a woman by name ofJill. She kind of like looked at
my resume and skills and kind ofcrafted my first resume I still used to
this day. But I had Ihad helped on the way with that kind

(07:54):
of stuff. I didn't know whatI was doing, man, Like I
hadn't been to college. I knewthe army, but I was like green.
I still feel like I feel likeI'm green. I think that kind
of helps me kind of to seebecause I'm always learning, trying to pick
up on skills and whatnot. ButI never feel like I know anything.
I'm always searching serious. I know, I feel like most of the best

(08:18):
half. I mean, I feelthe same way ship. I'm always learning
something I don't. I don't feellike I'm an expert in too much,
but a lot of people will makedifferent But I'm always learning. But for
sure, for sure, like Itook you all the time, man Like,
Look, I'm a when I callpomcasts or ant for my internet going

(08:39):
out, I'm a customer too.I got to sit there and reboot the
router. It's like, you know, that's all I take it to another
It mans treated everybody like I wantto be treated. Kind of keep a
little bit humble, you know whatI mean. So he did the retail
thing. How'd you end up gettingyour first actual technology base? You know?

(09:01):
I started a run a very badcontracts. It wasn't the d D
wasn't all this stuff, and theywere bad. I'm talking about, you
know, back then. So justabout two thousand and five and six.
At this point, I'm trying totake it to one hundred grand. I'm
like, oh yeah, you geta hundred you know, like I'm coming

(09:22):
to go, you know, donethat? Don't that seem like the laddery
ticket? Like for everything. Gethere all right, man, I gotta
get that sick. I gotta getthat that big sick. You got hand
done. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, I tell you, you
know what I'm saying. So likethey're like, look, the best way
to get it is to go.I talked their buddy in mind. He's

(09:43):
like, look, take that ship, that contract, keep building your skills,
you know. So so I left. I was just sitting right out
of time, like living near FortStewart, and time called out Hontsville,
Hone, Georgia, and man,I took a bus, bro because I
was broken ship. I took abus from Hinesville, Georgia to Saint Louis,

(10:03):
Missouri, and the projects and theproject manager on the projects up and
took me to Fort Levenworth. Andman, that's my first job I had
working on a project, do somepatching and ship from Fort Levenworth, and
man, that was crazy. Ifirst got my my first taste of like

(10:26):
GS employees don't like contracts, theydon't like two games. Man. Yeah,
so it's bad. Man. Idid did work though day and I
set up an SMS secure network andsome tackling stuff, you know, all
military. Yeah, central tackling boxes, so like all military super military stuff

(10:50):
like supernet, Nippernet type things.You know, still not really like doing
myself meaning justice wise, as faras like game new skills. But it's
like, you know, keep mymind going so still you were still kind
of floating on what you had alreadylearned andration myself. So I left that
contract under bad terms and actually hadto drive. I bought a clunker,

(11:18):
me and my family at the time, took a road trip to Walk Island,
Illinois my next contract, and Iworked on the island arsenal and so
Army posted arsenal there and I wasa I had a real weird drive.
I wasn't doing textuff. I wasa part of a team, but we

(11:39):
were designing a solution, so andI didn't know how to do that yet.
I had no idea about solutions,architecture and system design all that ship.
I was like, man, whatthe hell's going on here? But
I wanted to build ship. Justgive me, tell me to go and
start something. Yeah, I wasmanaging this, managing this project, kind

(12:01):
of an assistant project manager to buildthis solution, and I was that we
were hiring people. I was likeviewing people. I'm like, at the
time, maybe like twenty sticks somethinglike that, and this budget's like,
you no, thirty million dollars.I don't know what I'm I'm like,

(12:22):
this is crazy, you know.So I did that and I learned how
to manage the project. I learnedhow to actually like build a solution.
I learned how to interview people,learn how to place folks. You know,
it's pretty cool, you No.Then I moved on from there,
went to Dallas with another contract,working on a service desk for South withth

(12:46):
Aja, so we would do allthe remote server work for all the units
that are down down in theater range. Did that for a little while.
You know, I said I hadenough of this, uh do this stuff,
let me go do some civilian stuff. And I couldn't find a job

(13:07):
man for months, like a lotof that's a lot of skill man,
So what what what do you thinkwas the problem going on right there in
the industry or the market just likethat bad? The market had went crazy
at the time, and it wasjust hard to find contracts because at that
point, that's all I knew.I had a couple like very high value

(13:30):
contracting between there did some work youknow, all over like all over the
world whatever, like I mean everywhere. It's getting cash, getting cast,
getting cash, picking up skills,like a long term three months here,
six months here, and I landeda position out of a small local membership
organization and there I managed the entirenetwork. So I did servers, pcsting,

(13:58):
the switching with vendors. You know, I'm handling everything from mac os
updates to Cisco as a you knowfightwall management. You know. I started
doing more Linux at that point,you know, doing more VMware, getting

(14:18):
involved with uh the Magataf community becauseall the time of Windows guys, but
doing more, doing more Linux.And from there I went to kind of
bounced around the normal like uh that'sa normal way that military guys do when
they get out, kind of bouncedaround soil they find their their gig.

(14:41):
And I got a call from mycompany, called to the Crest in Atlanta,
UH to work on their Windows team. And that's where I got my
first taste of like production, likereal budget it like we were Oracle partners.

(15:01):
We're doing peoples off instrumentations. We'rebeing aware partners. I mean we're
I'm doing maintenance Windows and learning aboutyou know, they de end on where
we're going in. You know,they have peaks everywhere. Food, were
there all weekend patching and updating servicesand whatnot. I learned, like I
learned how to explain what I doat that company. So like the skills

(15:24):
that I usually already had, Ialready had being aware experience, I already
had experience of servers. I wasreally very good at my job, but
I was able to tie it alltogether there and kind of so I make
got names with myself. And whenyou say you were able to explain what
you do, you mean probably thesame thing that I that I kind of

(15:45):
went through. You know you justlike you dope as fun when your tech
stuff, but what you learn inthat inst it seems like you learn to
translate the technical stuff into what isbusiness impact was right at the end,
right, it had a hard timebecause you know, I'm young at the
time. Well I'm not old now, but a lot younger at the time.
Like people really like underestimate and Itell them like, look man,

(16:10):
like when I was in the army, bro Like you don't think because we
were in the army real life,just it's not a regular job until you
go down lane. But you know, unless you're not, and even then
it's like a little shaky, butit's not like, well, no,
I didn't. If you're not maturewhen you go into the army, the
army is not going to make youmore mature. If you're gonna have to

(16:33):
like kind of dig in and makeyourself. It's like going to college.
Because you go to college, youwant to come out, you know and
be like you know, top shiitthat whatever you may be. Then you
got to put some work in,bro, And I wasn't putting the work
in, so I had to buckledown and side right. I gotta like,
you know, to be honest,I'm not the only black guys in
these rooms. Like I don't talkabout these guys talk. You know,

(17:00):
I'm from the off, from thehud. These guys aren't. You know
what I'm saying, Like we don'thave similar interests, you know, Like
I'm not a big gamer. I'mnot like, uh, you know,
not like a normal guy, youknow what I'm saying. Like I just
came back from my Tom South classin Georgia. We had the fresh fry,
you know what I'm saying. Imean, you know, I'm hitting
Mosquito. You know, I'm oneof them. I like, you know,

(17:26):
that kind of ship. You know. I just was really good at
my job. You know, I'mreally good like it operations and like putting
ship together, you know, Ijust put these together. Bag. I
don't know, man, It's likeI feel like if I would have been
the marketing I would have been flyingin marketing. If I would have went
into you know, accounting, Iwould have been good. It's that my
dad told me to pick this job. That's the one I picked it,

(17:52):
you know, but like some solidadvice. I don't know, man,
Like what what what made your dadsee that? Though? He just I
wanted to do what I was doingin the streets and translate that to the
military. So I wanted to golike infantry, everybone this extra ship and

(18:14):
that was like hell, computer,shut up out of here, you know,
get out of here, Randma,get out of here. Show that
ship. Computers, you know.But it's kind of been my But it's
a double story because I'm able toexplain things at the level where people that

(18:38):
don't know kind of ship, they'llcall me before they call anybody else.
Hey, bro, what's up?What is this ship, you know,
and I'll let them know what's goingon. Like at the same time,
I don't speak like these people willspeak, and I don't like I've had
the interviews like, well, youhave been to college, you know you
didn't do this stuff going up?Now, how do we know that you

(19:00):
have your skills? I'm like,well, ask me any port number and
I'm gonna let you know what itis. It's like ask me, like
ask me how to build something,ask me questions, actually asked me,
and I'll let you know. AndI had to learn how to like interview
differently, like I haven't learn howto interview, bro, I have to
learn how to, like, youknow, make sure that I get my
skills the costs because the resume lookskind of crazy when people kind of talk

(19:22):
to me like, well, that'sjust a regular. It's a regular cat
is a regular? Yeah, yeah, can't be the same resume, can't
be the same guy, you know, then get the meetings and can't have
that interview like that asked me questionslike how do we know you how to
do this? Like they don't knowhow to interview, like you're supposed to
know how to figure that out?You can't just look at something and say,

(19:45):
oh, you got ass, youknow what you're doing, Like,
what's it's weird? Yeah, Imean it wasn't until I got to the
NBA that I actually had it,so you didn't go get your real like
for real, like the NBA manLike I can't speak enough to like their

(20:07):
devotion to uh diversity, I meanmay it's because where they're located in New
York, New Jersey, it's thebig melting pot where bro, you see
people of all colors, you know, all exercises a lot of women in
leadership positions, which for me isgreat to have daughters, I mean.
And the interviews from my boss tolike the CTO were like super laid back

(20:33):
and cool. They know that Icouldn't be bullshitting on this resume because I
would even do that. She waslike what I'm saying, you know,
it's like day one you found outthey want to be the talk. They
want to be the talk that ship, you know what I'm saying. And
I went there and I was ableto talk it and they were not playing
like I work with guys work whoworked at Rancher, you know what I'm

(20:56):
saying. Who like when you goto that rancher and the other the actual
note documentation, my teammate wrote thatship. You know, these guys are
like like we're a small sr team, but you are some of the smartest
guys I've ever has been working.I mean the smartest guys I've ever been
around, like period, like handsdown and all colors, all ages,

(21:22):
you know. But this is kindof where I feel the most at home.
I felt good at other companies too, but like the NBA, besides
being the NBA is a great it'sa great place to be. Man,
it's pretty awesome. So you justyou just felt like real comfortable me and
yourself. Because we talked about thatin a different discussion, right the last

(21:48):
interview we did. We were talkingabout how a lot of us, at
least early on, you kind oftalk different and you kind of act different
in spaces at work, in yourprofessional you know, uh environment, and
it just don't feel it don't feellike they're real you. But it's just
like another you almost. I can'tdo that, so like I don't have

(22:08):
that thing in my head that willmake me like switch up like that.
Yeah, this is what it is. I'm a country boy from the South.
You know what I'm saying. Ilike big trucks, fishing guns,
all that type of you know,you know, and I met a lot

(22:30):
of other guys. They're usually likenetwork engineers usually, and they're like the
same type of guys fishermen, outdoorspeople or you know, sports guys.
You know, we're not all likeno gamers and like like I do tex
stuff on my own. They keepmy skills together, Like I do have

(22:51):
like a k especially running in myhouse. But I just have that get
this, you know practice kiperneties.You know what I'm saying. But don't
I'm not at home for seven doingtech stuff like you know, I'm plotting
and fishing trips. I'm like tryingto build the outdoor kitchen, that kind
of sum I'm doing regular style,like a marriage for seven. A lot
of these guys claim to be,but they just can't be then awkward teenager

(23:17):
in the basement code. I wasn't. And I wasn't that guy in school
too. Man. I wasn't likethe unpopular kid. It was computer married
that was you know. Yeah,That's that's how we were too. I
mean me and my brother, wewas like in every sport we literally did
five different sports and we had likea little part time job on the side.

(23:41):
But it wasn't like the awkward kidsthat did just compute itself were just
like regular kids. I mean,and there's a lot of kids that we
want to get into computer stuff,but they feel like, oh man,
I don't know how to program,you know, stuff seems really hard.
I tell them, well, youdefine your you don't have to be a
programmer to be like and that's whyengineer in my opinion, if you're a

(24:06):
developed engineer or that's well that's allreason lit different. But if you're a
developed engineer, you don't need toknow how to write programming languages and you
know how you know what. Let'sgo back to little go back. We
do want to go into like therequirements because a lot of people want to
know what that you know, specificspace entails what it requires. But what

(24:26):
I want to do is kind ofroll back to like you know, as
far as you want to go backto, like where like this was your
ship right Like for me, yeah, I started with like Microsoft, you
know, just network and stuff.But for a long time, for about
ten years, a little bit morein ten years, like my ship was
VMware got diversal question, so kindof like go through like when that your

(24:51):
secret sauce kind of changed, youknow, your your primary thing change from
one thing to another to where you'relike, okay, I want to be
a dead ops. Uh you knowyou know SR. You know it's it's
weird. So my bread and brotherfor a long time was system administration on
the window side, managing is farms, keeping websites up and running. Before

(25:14):
we had thesioneers and srs, itwas this essays back then. So I
was a pretty goods admint, youknow, like I made name for myself.
I can, you know, solveproblems pretty quickly. If if there's
an incident call, you probably wantme on it, you know, because
I like to do it. Ilike to solve problems. I kind of
made a name for myself that way. When I when it hit me,
I was out of company that weworked on what we rolled and produced HR

(25:40):
software, and I had to workon this certain portion of the software and
it was all mine. Like Imanaged the server farm, I managed the
little bouncer in front of it.I put the code to it like it
was my baby, you know whatI'm saying. And when I got there.
It took about let's say a week, maybe a week or two weeks

(26:04):
to onboard a new client into mysoftware that also no responsible for. I
wrote a script for that took himfrom two weeks of five minutes based the
Power show time to get their sequel. Uh, you know statements. But
it was a pipeline, was whatthe pipeline was, you know, So
I was I wrote this pipeline.You know, we had drinkings there.

(26:26):
We didn't use it for a softwareused for this triggering jobs. So I
learned drinkings. You know. RedHat was doing road shows around Jacksonville for
this thing called open Shift. Noclue what it was. You know,
I go to the show, I'mlearning open shifts. I come back,
you know, to the office.I'm getting more into it. All of

(26:48):
a sudden, hold up, Iknow communities. I didn't even know it
was one day, Like I didn'thave now because I'm in the road like
this, I'm just amazing to bethere, you know, Like it's cool.
It was Red Hat, you knowwhat I'm saying, Like it's awesome,
you know, And yeah, Ilearning about compainiers and all that stuff.

(27:08):
And you know, I'm like ohshut now. So I started playing
with that and I got laid offfrom that job during COVID, and that's
when I went in to grind mode. I was like, you know what,
I'm not taking another job unless it'sthe devil engineer position, you know.
So I sat there and grind itout for months. I was unapplot.

(27:30):
I was good. I was gettingthe government of texting, and I
was just but grinding, studying,studying. I mean, all day long,
I'm gonna beating books. I wasn't. I wasn't doing ship fun bro
I'm just on the computer. I'mon you in me. I'm on Pearl
site. I mean, I'm payingfor all this ship broke learned that,

(27:51):
you know, I was. Ithink it might have been like, uh,
it might have been Elon Muss.I hate to drop the name because
I'm not sure who it was.They said, if you want to be
great a something, take six monthswhen you just pull yourself away from everything.
Don't go out, don't do nothing, just focus and just you know,
learn that thing. And after sixmonths you'll you'll you'll be knocking it

(28:14):
out like you will be an expertin that field. I mean that's I
mean more time. Give me sixmonths. I'll give you the play.
If you run that play, you'llwalk into a hundred with the grand A
lot of times they don't want torun to play it is I've given.
I'll give them out copies of theDefinished Project, great book that we don't

(28:36):
want to get the amazing book read. Don't want to even technical like that.
It's like regular stuff going on,like a factory. Yeah, like
that's that's that's one of the that'sone of the big pillars for like learning,
like correlation. But people don't wantto they don't want to read.
Like I'll give them. I tellthem how I did it, Like I

(28:59):
read the book. I've read theseexact books, I took these courses.
I was busting down course ever,I was busting on you to me.
You know what I'm saying, LikeI'm going to investigate myself and I'm not
doing ship. But that like that'sit, bro, Like I'm reading.
It's getting better. I already knewit, like my job as an essay,
but I'm getting better at that.I wanted more about containers, learning

(29:22):
doctor, you know, learning howto write pipelines in different types of team
city, uh and I to putsuplory like I'm creating pipelines everywhere. I
have gets and get Live, I'mrunning GitHub, I'm running Adeo repositories,
and I'm learning. I'm touching everything. I'm going out to these jobs I
see, I'm seeing what they're askingfor now. I'm just learning that ship

(29:45):
because for the most part, it'sfree to learn. It's free. It's
free. You ain't buy you know, you to me courses, well,
find most of it on YouTube,right, But at one point I want
to make because there are a lotof cats at their own LinkedIn that sell
these book camps without of dollars,people taking out loans, they're losing at
homes, find out get these courses. You don't need that ship, bro,

(30:06):
Like you need six months and forfree you can learn every skill you
need to make up words two undergrandyou know, because people don't give a
fuck how long you're going to do. They care about if you know how
to do it. Hey, bro, most of its new, like like

(30:30):
they got this AI stuff going onright now. How long are you see
aycle? I mean, I knowit's been around for years, but it
ain't being like you know, presentto you know in consumer like it is
right now, people aren't really youknow, they know more than the two
letters AI nowadays. Man, Soyou can do you can learn prompt engineering

(30:51):
and all kinds of other stuff,especially if you're already in it, because
all the guys that are losing jobsbeing essays because they don't want to convert
to the cloud. And that's whatI'm like, bro, you you have
no idea how easy it is.Everything I know from like server operational teamwork
and bring on these like the deportmentteams. That's the same shit I'm doing
now, the same shit. It'sdifferent names. Y I read it's a

(31:14):
system admin that write scripts. That'sit, right. Yeah, they'll over
complicate things and then they cheat themselves. But that is the one thing that
it does get you. It allowsyou to break this stuff down to these
simple forms and be able to correlatethis to that. So but at the
end of the day, when itcomes to like a job in competency,
like you said, it doesn't reallymatter. It matters to like a like

(31:38):
a manager or a leader type personbecause then you can correlate these different skills
over But outside of that, you'rejust doing it do I don't care if
you've been doing this twenty years,because twenty years ago the ship was nowhere
like it is now exactly bro So, and I cut you off a few
minutes ago. You were allowed togo through what I guess these requirements or

(32:00):
what the person would want to whatkind of skills a person want to,
you know, bring in if theywant to, if they're interested in being
already I will out stop in thebasics, and you don't have to get
these certifications, but I must.I must just add in at heart.
So that's how we kind of showour skills. I got all these search
and what you got or whatever.So that's the culture. That's the culture,

(32:23):
and it's weird. But you wantto have a network plus level of
dolledge of networking. If you don'thave that, I don't even want to
talk to you. If you can'ttell and I've been a hier manager and
I've let the lot teams. Ifyou can't tell me what these ports are,
how are you gonna trouble street webissues? If you can't tell me
what port a C T H TT H T T P runs on.

(32:46):
Uh, As I say these ports, you gotta be able to read the
package yeah, so you say,you know, yeah, for sure,
now a plus. I used togo, say A plus too, but
now you kind of skip that becausethe cloud makes it easier. But if
you go through that A plus thenthe new one, it will give you

(33:07):
a little bit of a head startedon a lot. They're just hell expensive.
You don't have to like take thecertifications, but just have that base
level of knowledge. So like Aplus. I thought that A plus is
like more for like help dest Soyou see A plus is like a little
bit more. Yeah, people likethe cloud and stuff like that too.
It talks about types of servers.It goes into like or all kind of

(33:29):
shit. So you want to havethat levelledge. You want to have like
the network plus security plus. Theyhave one called the server plus. I
know I'm no come to here rightnow, but I like, shit,
if you do the server plus,you'll for sure be on your way.
And they have one called the Cloudplus two. But that's kind of depending

(33:52):
on where you want to go.So I would say, have those A
plus, network plus, security pluslevel knowledge. Buy the books by the
bullet on that, or find apdf online, whatever you gotta do,
but but read those books, youknow, what I'm saying, I had
that basic level knowledge, and thatwill and you'll be able to explain like
basics securious terminology, networking. You'llknow how to something that or at least

(34:14):
know what the something that is.Because we get this cloud ship, it
expects you to know and it andand and it's going to be uh,
you're gonna want to know these thingsbecause it set your apart because I feel
like, in my personal opinion,well, it's the fact the cloud was
made for developers to go in andand spin up shit real easy to get
rid of to you knowice is adminsand whatnot. But developers don't want to

(34:37):
do that ship. So that's whyyou have these platform engineering teams now.
And if when they're doing a platformengineering team, you better know your points
so you better know how to youknow, build systems the right way.
So I would go from from there. You want to have because most people
go into cloud by lifting and shiftingservers. They do MS first, not

(35:00):
really services, but MS. Youwant to have a knowledge of VM a
virtual machines and how it works,like what a hypervisor is. Kind of
ship. If we don't know whathyperlizorationshould you know, you got to go
back in more studying, you know, but they cover that and it makes
it makes it makes sense because Imean, if you're dealing with cloud,

(35:22):
you're going to run to a situationmost of them they're going to be connected
to prind services, you know,and then a lot of I haven't seen
one that's not So you want tohave ethn like that's kind of you lose
a little bit of the performance whenyou push it up. So they try

(35:44):
to process. Guy. But whenI'm doing an interview, if you got
doctor a container on on your resumeat all, I expect you to understand
the benefits of virtualization and containerizing services. Yeah, and got to know that
because if you do, I don'tthink you know what you're talking about.

(36:05):
Yeah, you gotta be able tolike sell why we're doing this to a
client. Are we using this insteadof because if a person can't tell why
how you're gonna optimize, you don'tknow the first you don't know the base
benefits exactly, Yeah, exactly exactly, that's exactly right. But from from

(36:25):
there, what I would say istoo then I do have that basic level
of knowledge. That's that's all thatNazi stuff. Pick a cloud cloud like,
so don't go picking like you knowOracle, well you know, in
the cloud, you get all themoney they're selling their cloud ship. But
are you gonna pick like a WSAzure or Google people on a w S.

(36:50):
But I'm an Azure guy now becauseI like it better. But pick
a cloud and learn that cloud andlearn it. Don't actually another guy right
now un till them. Don't worryabout that bob shit right now, all
that you'll get there, learn howto create things in the cloud to be
able to do it. Start there, take this zams or at least go
through the courses. They're all everythingis free like this, it's all free,

(37:15):
go all, go buy a bookwhatever, but like, learn your
clouds. So learn like you takeyour like for address that ate nine hundred
intro, then you have your oneO four. I have the nine hundred
and one O four. It's probablyhow they want to go on that because
I'm trying to do different things now. But social that's a social level,
right yeah, social level. I'llget back to albums stopping the cloud certifications.

(37:39):
But for people coming in brand new, brand new, you want to
knock them out, so like youwant to knock out like your social levels,
especially if you have a company whohas like you know, discounts were
different like providers or whatnot, knockout those those search and I would say

(38:00):
if you're having trouble picking one.If you're a Microsoft guy, do Azure.
If you're a Linux sky, doAWS. If you're just like a
Kate guy, do Google and learnwhatever your company is doing. So like
your company has drinkings there or whateverthat down the broad No, but start

(38:21):
war learning their actual platform, thecloud they're running on, and then the
ones you're able to certifying that stuff. Or if you're comfortable this creating resources
in the cloud via the gouy dothat via terraform. So learn how to
create those resources via I a cintructious code, and the main one is

(38:44):
Terraform. I don't even acknowledge theother ones. It's still pointing. Even
you can know Microsoft has arms,a WS has like cloud formation, that's
what they have or not. ButI don't even acknowledge anything other than Terraform.
To be honest, if we knowterraform, you're good in the industry,

(39:05):
Like you'll get your job for sure. So learn terraforms free to learn
it's free to use open source.Once you're able to create resources from your
laptop via code, then you needto do that in a pipeline. So
you need to learn how to setup like your heart environment distory terraform states

(39:29):
so that you can curate resources inthe cloud via terraform and update those things
were pipelines, and that's where itkind of and that's where I kind of
lose people like what what's the pipeline? What's the CD? Like, look,
bro, it's not hard. Ifyou can if you can get the
flow down for terraform and curate thingsin terraform and have this nice configu recreating

(39:52):
like a resource group and azure VMS, uh v nets, subnets, and
it's you know, all this differentstuff, you're gonna be great. Do
you use terraform or do you justlike, do you recommend people use only
terraform to deploy the infrastructure or doyou have them try to use terraform to

(40:13):
configure it as well, because alot of times there's there's a concert of
answerable and terraform, you know,for the deployment, for the you use
teophone. There's ways you can doit. You can do you can do.
You can do some configuration with Terraform, you can do some deployment with

(40:37):
Answerable, but it's just like onegenerally made. It's purpose built for deploying
infrastructure. Whereas people try to usepeople try to use terraform and run bad
short power scripts and the Terraform youcan figure it out the resources. What
you should do is have a pipelinerunning that kicks off your Terraform build and

(40:59):
wants that Terraform build done. Ittriggers your answer jobs. That's what we
kind of want, you know.That's it's apost not hard. But it
sounds crazy when you talk about thepeople but they're shut down on an accolades,
you figure out it sounds like ridiculous, but it's not really are It's

(41:19):
basically just a bunch of files beingprocessed like everything we do, and like
the virus is processing files. Likethat's all where they can figure file Jason
files t F files are like files. So it's not like you're it's it's
a cool job, not as glamorousas people make it. Seeing you're really
just like a librarian. You're likestoring these books, but their files in

(41:43):
the in the bookcase. But it'sbasically a repository. Yeah, how you
doing is moving files around? Yeahyeah, but it's cool building and stuff.
But so but yeah, like onceyou can get the terraform down,

(42:05):
like if we can deploy, ifsomeone can say, hey, I need
a VM uh be un deployed inAzure or VM deport an a w as
well, if you know a was, you're going to need this.
Uh, you're gonna need these twoinstants. You're gonna have to have these
sub nets. And if we knowwhat, if we know what needs to
be done. So I'm an Azuredguy, so an Azure, I would

(42:27):
create a resource group. You cancreate v nets in that group. You
can create firewall rules on the subnetsand those three nets. Then you don't
want to get your vms. Youcan connect them out of your IT next
to them. I know how towrite all that in terraform and get it
all up there. If we cando that, then you're already at the
one fifty mark in my opinion,Like, that'll get you one fifty.

(42:52):
I've seen it. I've hired atthat rate. Something I know that that
I know doubt look at you,and that takes about five months. I
mean to be like I think,I mean, if you're really pressing it,
three months, I'll do all that. Yeah, but I would I

(43:13):
would go so far because I doagree with that, but I would say
that you could do it. Buta person that's going from like straight zero,
because I mean we had we didit in the military. You think
a person can go from like straightzero, I mean like with no fun

(43:35):
just focus. Yeah, yeah,how many how many hours were saying?
How many hours will you say aperson in the week, so that I
mean, if you're home, ifyou're home, unemployed, not doing anything,
you need to put it in allthe hours. I mean, how
it's about how bad you want toyou know what? I study about three

(44:00):
hours the night every night. ButI have to because I'm so we have
to know all this interesting. Wehave to know the blanguages, know how
to read this stuff. You knowwhat I mean? You heard that out
there like sound till men, sorryfor the NBA. He still puts in
three hours at night, bro,We don't. We don't know this ship.

(44:22):
It's a thing like we on boardstuff. We have that like POC
ship. So like right now I'mdoing the POC for for has the cart
Vault you know what I mean.And I'm used to run involved in the
cloud environment or running involved, runinvolved, we have stories is different,
so you got to do things.So you have to like actually figure out

(44:43):
you have to like rearrange the clustera little bit because you're running onks.
So it's been fun. I've beenlike taking my time and actually, if
we're done involved, I know vaultLike, oh but I don't know vault
this way, you know, sowe have to like to kind of learn
things, you know, and like, I mean I know all this stuff,
man like, and that was somethingearlier today, like it ask me

(45:06):
about my job. It's like,man, I'm learning something new every day.
I'm always learning something new. That'sthe thing about you know, working
at the cutting ends. It's exciting, but that's stressful too. Yeah,
and everything. And the reason whyI throw it out there like that is
that a lot of people when theysay I want to get into it,
a lot of them they want toask how much do you study them?

(45:27):
Well, you don't want to dowhat I do a lot, right,
But generally I like to tell peoplelike, you know, two to three
hours a night. If you're tryingto break it, they say a lot
of people say break into tech,get in, do that, and and
but they feel like, oh,I just got to do this to get
in, Like now, this iswhat you would be doing after you get
in do because right tech is constantchange. That's just getting to the standing

(45:51):
line to say go. When yousay go, you're going. You know
what I'm saying, Yeah, youdon't stop? Yeah, I mean,
especially with this new techt Like onething right now that's kicking the industry to
ask and it's Kubernetes. Because peoplewill swear up and down they know that
ship and you talking in the meeting, bro, they do not know what

(46:15):
the they're talking about, and abouta long shot like you're never like if
you haven't, if you haven't hadto go in and mainly create a volume
and the PBC to go along withthat, don't talk to me about nothing,
okay, like you're not and thenknow the levels because like right now

(46:35):
I'm floting for my c k ADbecause realistically that's what most of us do.
We're not actually bootschop down clusters andwell I am at the NBA right
now, but for the most part, you're not going to budgetn cluster.
You're gonna go one and gonna belike eks N A w S, g
C and what GK Google. Yeah, I'll be managed. You won't even

(46:58):
touch you the like for the mostpart. You're gonna be working Node most
of the times that something you wouldsay would be true mostly at the heart,
like the bigger organizations, they're gonnabe yeah, because no one,
no one and no one. Ifyou if you want to work in the
environment where you're actually working on thecontrol plane, like building clusters for real,
you're going to be working out theprovider. You're gonna be working for

(47:19):
Microsoft, working for Google, workingfor a w S. You know you're
not going to be doing that attheir shop. You're gonna have it.
Spin up a little KS, biggerlittle terraform, spin up aks node for
your software. You gotta know help. You got a lot of times if
you had to be done, alot of times somebody already did it.
You don't do that every week exactly. You know, like to be good

(47:40):
at K for your like for me, I know helm to know how to
do all these different like deploying yourapplications. I'm not like really building clusters.
No one's what you're doing that,But people like they are. And
I had the interviews that interview guysyou've had like their c K c K
d cs and know nothing about humanities. Yeah, you know that test somehow

(48:02):
however that's a practical application test.Yeah yeah, man, that went out.
Man, I can't probably shot downthat test, man, because it's
open up, you know what I'msaying. So I'm going through the posts
right now, but it's an opening. I feel like if you have a
little bit look a little cakes ifyou asked you like, you can pass

(48:28):
the test, but you're not goingto be able to like work. I
don't know. Man. If theycan get through, I give it to
them. Many even you're the guywho had the certification that asked about people
even know what the work. Ohyeah, I'm like that's right there.
But god, I guess I guessif you're saying somebody did it, then

(48:51):
I mean, you know what youknow? I see a lot that's a
hard manager. I feel a lotoff camera. I can tell you like
more about it, get into itis there are people who are making that
like that's unfortunate man, because likeI always tell people like that, that

(49:15):
shirt is just a it's a targetit's not the goal, it's a target
that allow you to pick up thegoal on the way to the target.
Because a lot of people know whatI need to learn just do this shirt.
If you do this shirt, youhave to get pick up these skills
in order to past exam. That'sthe purpose of the example circumvent and learning.
I think no matter what, sir, I don't think the st is

(49:37):
going to give you that in depthknowledge. Like you said, it gives
you the flags, but you gotto take those flashs and die deep into
the knowledge. Right has a certthat's just yeah, see I think a
certain as you have base level knowledge, you have knowledge to get this ship

(49:58):
working. But uh, but that'sa it's an open those test. Most
people who are taking the c kA D or c K A are a
little bit seasoned, and I shouldbe at least. And if you're you
cant shot down it and pass it. You don't have to make a hundred
percent. You know you can shotdown and pass it, and people do

(50:21):
it. People do it. Peoplepass the terraform as them and they can't
tell me how to you know theterraform operations like how to actually like hick
Off, the terraform job and theycan't that's very easy, that's very simple,
and they can't tell me that.I'm like, it happens. Man.
Back in the day, we hadyour paper n C S c S
same thing. Now yeah, yeah, paper tigers. Thank so? No

(50:45):
is it a lot of good alot of good points? I ask the
interview God, yeah, terraform onhis resume, and I asked him about
I guess you gave him a simplescenario. I like to hear how people
talk through scenarios and stuff. SoI'm like, hey, if I have
five resources deploy even care for him, and I want to remove one,
what do I need to do?Basically, just remove it from the code,

(51:07):
right and we run the job.You didn't know. I'm like,
like, you got on your resume, dude, this simple. See.
But tell people all the time.I tell people all the time. If
we want to have it on yourresume, at least do enough for the
Like I'm not magic. If wewant to put in your resume on a

(51:28):
speak in the job whatever, whatever, do your thing. You know what
I'm saying. You better know howthat's plan that ship because it's just nowhere.
And if you're good you're good,but if not, you're gonna look
bad man, and you'll get blackballed. Because it's just a small community.
We all know each other, bro, especially if you're black. To
be real, we all find eachother, you know what I'm saying.

(51:51):
So you know who that the bigdogs are, Like he was out here
doing who You better know your shipbecause I have seen like all the gates
keeping going on. Well, soyou kind of need to know your stuff.
Man, I'm not uncoming for somebodyto say, yeah, I'm interviewing
this one kid for this job andresume looks good. Who oh yeah,

(52:15):
I don't know and me and andthey may they may still proceed with the
interview. But the last thing youwant is a person that you're talking to
saying Okay, I wonder what he'slying about. Broo. People don't blow
camera, you know what I'm saying. They're really Oh I had a guy.

(52:40):
We can see it in as aglasses. He's like I told one
guy and he got mad at me. I actually hired him because he impressed
me, but then he like tobe a jerk. Like if you don't
know, I just say that ship, bro, Like I made a career

(53:02):
I made a career of saying Idon't know. I'm gonna find out and
when I gonna find out. Man, I took a job where I had
to migration from Cinemao to exchange servery, and I got hired because of my
exchange severy knowledge. I have nevereven touched cine mail in my own life.
I have no clue or what Ihad no clue. Bro, I

(53:25):
call it buddy of mine Linux emailguy, and I went to a week
book course with that guy every dayfor hours doing mock uh, doing mock
migrations from cinemel to exchange. Broto the point in my sleep, I
made a bunch of money in thatjob. Real big company, by the
way, like real like well backin the day, you're ready magazine all

(53:50):
the time, like like I madeyou know, and I was there,
But Bro, I hustled my waythrough. You know what I'm saying.
But it's like admitted to say,hey, I don't know that I told
them. I said, Hey,I know it's changed. I can figure
out the Simmel shit. Come bringme on for a week. You don't
like to get saying it back homewhatever I want, I'm saying for six

(54:13):
months a little check. I didn'tothership for him. It was not to
hire me, but they wasn't gonnapay me what I needed to get at
that time. You know what I'msaying. You talked about a guy you're
training, right or or mentoring coachingwith whatever that relationship is. Do you
do a bit of mentorship coaching orhelping the community, you know, get

(54:34):
through this space or what's that likefor you. That's the only reason why
I have with LinkedIn right now.Uh, it's to make sure that I
reas not the people. People hitme up every day and they and they
can tell you I know this,they have my number then called me.
You know what I'm saying, It'ssurprising how all of these guys I had
a bad running with a doctor Google. It's a real like real like seemingly

(55:00):
cool dude Google Bye guys. AndI reached out to him a couple of
times with genuine questioned about something becauseI feel like the developer community is more
accepting of that than the systemic communityis. He's part of the developer community,
you know, well known dude assholebro Like It's like I mean,

(55:20):
I said, like my name meetyour heroes. I was like really turned
off. That made me like,you know what, if anybody ask me
anything, I'm old in it.I'm going over buy I send people books,
you know what I'm saying. Ipaid for a fort vacations like you've
done the thing like put people on, man, like there's enough. There's
not enough people to fill these jobs. Why are the gay keeping in this

(55:43):
stuff like I will? I don'tcare if he's like it, I don't
care who many more than me?Like I had, I got a job
where I would say this, Iwould say this salary. I was making
the one twenty something on twenty aroundone twenty and I was high and guys
who make it one forty I wastheir lead, you know, but they're

(56:06):
making more than me. But Ididn't give it. I want to put
people on, Like if if youwant to do this and you want to
like change life around or create thatgenerational wealth for people, because this is
kind of like tech and like medicine. It's all black people right now are
creating generational wealth. Like I hadno clue I can make this much money

(56:30):
and it's allowing me to like literallycreate wealth and e's not for my family.
You know what I'm saying, sowhy not put everybody I'm mentoring?
I want more people to mentor Iwant to be able to have zoom calls
every night where I can have azoom call with fifteen people and I do
what do you want to do?In I T I have a guy gets

(56:51):
you along with He'll make you anetworking gurgle. You want to be a
dB guy, I got a guyfor you. You want to be a
storage guy, I got a guyfor you. That's how I get out.
You know what I'm saying. Iknow people, is this is this
a formal situation you built out oris just like more personal where it's like,
hey, look on LinkedIn and wecan trap it up. I'm getting
it's just the point now where Ihave to make it a formal I'm actually

(57:15):
getting a personal assistance. It's thepoint now where like I need to have
someone schedule these meetings. I'm happywith everybody because I'm trying to like put
everybody on and then I'm going tohave to make it a formal thing.
I actually had a guy that wantsto do a series on cyber and some
other stuff like that. In thatrealm, if you want to have a

(57:37):
little together, man, you wantthrough amente, we can definitely work and
set something up. I mean Igot homies in every part of our team,
man like, and I was like, that's something I want to do,
for sure, help people put onbecause a lot of it keeping going
on. For sure. A lotof a lot of people get taken advantage

(57:59):
of this book camp. I wantto say one that God's names so bad,
but I swellenn't. But just liketrying like this boot camp dudes,
you know what I'm saying. Takepeople. You know what I'm saying.
But I'm just trying to be like, yeah, I don't want to clue
though, I just want to clue. Is it like, is it like

(58:21):
in the payment process inside of thehouse? No? No, not well
okay, all right, I'm tryingto think of it is but another another
guy. I don't get in theway of a man's money. But y'all
be careful out there. This personto work for a company who talk stuff

(58:44):
online and then branched dolls and basicallylike he so boot camps, but they
really doing something you can do alinefor free. I'm like, that's that's
ridiculous. You know what I'm sayingit's free ship you know, or low
cost stuff, you know. Butyeah, man, I mean some people
are getting jobs. I do.I do want to shout out a couple

(59:04):
good boot camps. So, likethere's a was it a Cure Labs out
in New York? They do afree boot camp. It's free six months,
And I was absolutely a judge onone of their list competitions. Those
guys are actually like learning from learnfrom kind of like is that kind of

(59:28):
like a uh those big projects atthe end of Yeah, is that kind
of like a capstone where you haveyou come in and judge. Yeah.
Yeah, And they and they're goingfrom A zero to Hero zero to hero
in six months. They're pushing outpopline to give up action. They're right,

(59:49):
they got I mean, they're buildinginfra and pushing code on one pipeline
that's hard to get season season folksto know how to do bro and they're
using terror form there, using it, they using all ship. They're going
crazy, you know. So Ilike those guys. And that's that's the
only food camera that I kind ofco signed right now because it's free,

(01:00:13):
I can't co sign and then thatcosts money. I looked at I'm wondering
how it's free, if it's likegovernment subsidizes or Somethingow he got some back
end. The guy who ask them, he's into a lot of big guys
in New York got a lot ofthat. They got bread, they got
money. That's crazy. I meanthey placed guys that. I mean,

(01:00:37):
they have guys that are s Rthat go from working on McDonald's the s
R mm hmm, and that thathas a pretty high base, like a
minimum a draftking. I mean,I mean they're at drafts, they're at
banks, right, they're getting Ioffer people in the job. I offer

(01:00:58):
jobs. They're not good, youknow. So that's that's what you are.
You dabbling any on the the asside of the house, dealing with
nos and all the other stuff.Well, well I'm going to be involved
regardless because I build the resources inthe cloud. So no matter what happens,

(01:01:22):
someone needs to know how to keepship running in the cloud. It
is an app to me, it'san application that runs. When it goes
down, they have to have sR is go and bring it back up.
The first thing I said about saidabout tracking when they came out is
that hey, there's no skill,ain't going on. It's crastinat every day
who the SR is one of thoseprojects, and one of the guys thats

(01:01:45):
like, hey, good, goodlooking out. You know, we're hiring
s R. We're doing something andthere we're going to Maxapo by the time,
so that came out to there goingto Microsoft and then we can't better.
But as long as they have servicesaround the cloud and deploy it,
I'll have a job that good.I have a lot of like inside game

(01:02:07):
on the ie industry, man likekind of being like, I don't know,
man, I found myself in somereally crazy rooms. I have a
lot of games it did, man. I'm just trying to give it out
once again. We try to impressappoint people like heavily the importance of your
network, not as in like Ciscobut jashual social network. And yeah I

(01:02:30):
got that. Yeah, sure absolutely. I really appreciate you coming on man,
especially at the job. But hey, we're gonna we're gonna talk to
you and see if we can getsome some follow up stuff going for people
to kind of fit from. Wecan get time but us that man,

(01:02:52):
be safe and very night to seeyou guys in the nature. M h.
Well, unless you guys have anyother part in thoughts? We can
I think we can cut it.No, it was. It was a
great great to meet you. Youobviously have met RICO before, because I

(01:03:13):
mean, damn uh you got yougot yeah. She she comes to our
office, so access to the networksfrom time, take lunch money was gonna
there's gonna be a running joke down. Man. I don't get bullied no

(01:03:35):
more. Man, I'm grown up. Man, you know I got I
gotta get out of here because Igot I gotta go. Wait, wait
before you leave, man, letme, let me, let me stop
the take so I can let thingsroll up.