017: She tells DEM Secrets to Land Dream Job

Summary
In this engaging conversation, Ismaelle Salomon, a tech sourcer, shares her journey from education to tech recruitment, highlighting the challenges and triumphs she faces in the industry. The discussion covers the importance of preparation for interviews, the dynamics of salary negotiations, and the role of diversity in tech. Ismaelle emphasizes the need for transparency in the hiring process and the significance of company culture in retaining talent. The conversation also touches on the impact of remote work and the differences between recruiters and sourcers, providing valuable insights for both candidates and hiring managers.

Takeaways

• Ismaelle transitioned from education to tech recruitment due to a passion for people.
• Technical recruitment is challenging, requiring a good fit for both skills and culture.
• Preparation is crucial for candidates to succeed in interviews.
• Salary transparency is essential for a smooth hiring process.
• Diversity in tech is important, and Ismaelle champions representation.
• Candidates should feel empowered to negotiate their worth.
• Understanding the difference between a recruiter and a sourcer is key for candidates.
• Company culture plays a significant role in employee retention.
• Remote work dynamics have shifted post-pandemic, affecting hiring practices.
• Candidates should apply even if they don't meet 100% of the job requirements.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So I'm Ismael Solomon. I'm based in Massachusetts, and I
went to school for psychology. So I have a degree,
my bachelor's degree in social psychology with a minor in
African American history. Interesting thing. So actually, when I graduated
from undergrad I wanted to pursue a master's degree in

(00:21):
speech therapy. I had worked a number of years with
children and adults with like special needs. I started an
early childhood education. I would say one of the biggest
things that turned me off education is the politics of it.
I think when you're young, you're optimistic, you know, you're
not really hip to the politics of education with administration

(00:44):
and things like that and funding. I worked with a
lot of you know, disadvantaged youth in the inner city.
I didn't like a lot of the things I was seeing.
I think I came into it with a savior complex, right, like,
I'm going to be the best teacher I can be.
I'm going to save all of these kids. I'm going
to inspire them. And that's not really what happened. I
had a lot of kids, you know, from rough neighborhoods,

(01:05):
disadvantaged neighborhoods, a lot of crime, a lot of violence right,
and I couldn't save them all.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
I can't take no loss dounting.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
I hit the ground in and go a jam, hit
the ground in and go off.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Jam.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
I can't take no loss.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
J don't even know what its.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
And I hit the ground in and go.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
So I actually had a friend at the time who
was a recruiter for a pharmaceutical company. She knew that
I was interested in, you know, transitioning out of education,
and she, you know, kind of told me, you know,
the transferable skills, you know, between like being a teacher
and and recruiting, the number one thing is having a
passion for people, which I, you know have. I really

(01:46):
fell into tech, to be honest with you. So I
had a recruiter that reached out to me for a
contract role with the transportation agency out in Manhattan, and
I told where I was like, you want me to
be a technical recruiter to recruit engineers like for MTA.
That's wild, And she's like, you know, I could tell
that you're sharp, great communicator, you have a great network.

(02:10):
You've been in the industry for a number of years.
So I interviewed for the role. I got the position.
I really was surprised. I think what I enjoy about
technical recruitment is the challenge. It's not easy to find
good engineers. It's not just the technical piece, right, You're
looking for a candidate that's going to be a good
fit for the culture, you know, someone who really wants

(02:31):
to learn the newer technologies, a good team player. So yeah,
I mean I work for Child's River Development, So we're
a fintech organization. We're a cross between you know, investment,
banking and software. So I'm a technical sourcer for the organization.
I've been in my role for eight months, so pretty
much what I do is I get on you know, LinkedIn, indeed,

(02:53):
you know, reach out to candidates. A lot of the
positions I work on are like the more mid level
kind of engineering role, so a lot of like cloud
platform engineers. I'm getting a little bit into like the
identity access management space, which is neat. But yeah, long
story short, I love tech because it's a challenge. Right.
I'm one of the few women on my team. I'm

(03:16):
the only woman of color on my team for talent acquisition,
and I think that my ability to kind of you know,
learn new things and kind of just jump into it.
I love the challenge. Right, So not everyone I recruit
is a rock star. They're not always the ideal candidate.
But I'm very receptive to feedback, and I think ultimately
that's the key to success, right is knowing that not

(03:40):
every day is going to be an easy day. You're
always going to have challenges, but being willing to pivot
and kind of learn, you know, from your shortcomings to
become you know, just a better source or a better recruiter.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
That's got to be very empowering.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Being the only black woman in that sector, are in
that group.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, definitely. I always kind of tell people I think
that I will always be a diversity kind of champion.
I look at myself, right, somebody had to take a
chance on me and give me a chance. So for me,
it's all about really connecting candidates with opportunities that are
going to be fulfilling for them. So I never take
it personally, right. I always tell people, you know you

(04:19):
are your best advocate, right, you know your skills, you
know where you are now and where you want to be.
And I think a lot of feedback I've gotten from
engineers is they want to be part of a team
where they have a lot of like support, you know
what I mean. The technology piece, I feel like is
always going to be there, you know, to get the
funding and stuff like that, and the money you know,

(04:40):
behind like integrating newer technologies, you know, especially around like
cybersecurity and things like that. But really to be part
of a team where you're going to have the support
you need, you know, to grow, you know, as an
engineer or product manager or product director, you know, whatever
path you're on, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Have you ever looked at any of those ricks and
like the salaries and think, oh, man, I need to
pivot in the tech.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Learn you learn some security.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Well yeah, honestly definitely, Like for the cybersecurity roles, I'm
just like, Yo, this is this is like insane money.
And I think that's another thing I really like about
talking with engineers. I love how excited they get to
talk about the technology, to talk about their career path.
I always kind of ask people what are you most
proud of? Right if you're talking to an engineer that's

(05:32):
been in the industry for five, ten, fifteen, twenty plus years,
I'm like, what keeps you excited about tech? So I
really enjoy you know, those personal antidotes and just learning
more about candidates and what they're looking to do.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
All you have, all of your source and roads been technical,
like for technical personnel.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
No, So I actually used to do like healthcare recruitment.
So I used to recruit like nurses and social workers,
you know, and I came from the industry too, So
it wasn't really enough of a challenge for me. Engineering.
You know, tech will always be a challenge, right because
the words that they're throwing at me, I'm always googling

(06:13):
and trying to figure out, like what's JavaScript? You know,
what's eux ui design? What is this stuff? You know? Ultimately,
what do we want this person to do? So, yeah,
I love the challenge of it.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Do you feel yourself like becoming more technical the longer
you persist in this role or is it just kind
of like you do enough to just filter people so
that can get to the technical stages of the interview.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Exactly. I do enough to kind of screen people. So
what I've been doing more of, especially for our senior
level positions. When I meet with hiring managers, I ask
them for technical questions just to get an insight into
like how proficient you know, we need candidates to be
so the work that we do because we are an
investment bank, you know, we deal with a lot of money,

(07:00):
so a lot of our kind of systems and software.
We can't fumble the bag, right Like, if these systems
are down, we're not making money because you know, our
portfolio managers and our asset managers need these systems to
keep track of trades and investments. So I always kind
of stress to people that, yes, we are a software company,

(07:20):
but we're also owned by an investment bank, so you
have to look at the finance end of it too.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
I have a serious question.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Have anyone ever said fumble the bag in an actual meeting.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
I'm just curious.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Oh no, you said?

Speaker 3 (07:38):
Is like, hey, look you made it. I'm gonna push
you forward, but don't fumble.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
No, no, no. So my thing is I always tell
candidates I'm very big on coaching, right Like, it doesn't
matter what the level, the position is, what the salary is.
I try to prep people as much as possible if
I know anything about the hiring manager or any feedback
they've given me. You know, I tell people be as
high energy as possible. I know it sounds ridiculous. You're like,

(08:05):
this is tech, this is engineering. You know. I tell
people like, you have to sell yourself, right, Like, I
can only vouch for you so much. So when you
you know, have those fifteen minutes or twenty minutes in
front of the team, like, you know, take notes. Feel
free to ask somebody to repeat a question. I've seen
that in the past, especially around the technical questions, you know,

(08:25):
rapid fire technical questions. It could be very like stressful.
So I'm like, you know, feel free to ask us
to repeat the question. And also if you don't know
the answer, write down the question right so after the
interview you can go back and do the research and
be like, Okay, they were asking about this. So I
try to give as much feedback as possible.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
So so when you go back, you say, you know,
I'm sorry, can do it. I'll let you pop your
question on a second. So when you have them go
back or when they go back to research the question again,
you encourage them to, you know, include that answer follow
up email to the interviewers.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
No, so not necessarily. So what I encourage people to do,
especially if they've been out of the interview process for
a while, is just to jot down the technical question. Right.
So let's say that on average we'll ask a candidate
like six technical questions. What's the likelihood that they're going
to answer all six correctly? So I just encourage kendidates
to write down the question so then after the interview

(09:24):
they can just research it.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Okay, I thought you were talking about like post interview,
they've already gone through the technical aspects of the interview
and then they miss some of them. Because I've heard
that and it sounds like pretty sound, you know advice
if someone doesn't know a question or they get something
wrong or maybe not one hundred percent correct, and then
they find that, you know, deficiency in their interview after

(09:50):
the fact that they you know, when they send a
thank you email or follow up email, they'll say, oh,
I looked at this question and I don't think I
know answer it to of my own satisfaction, but through research,
this is what I found.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
And me personally, I like that because that shows the initiative.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
It shows the desire to have the answers and understand like,
what's you know. I wouldn't ask you a question in
an interview that I wouldn't expect you to know. I
expect you to at least want to know, right, you
should at least want to know, not just to get
through the interview, know it just so you have that
you know, ability to speak to that you know that

(10:32):
specific subject matter. So I personally, I think I think
that's a good move for a candidate to, you know,
go that.

Speaker 5 (10:40):
Extra mile during your process of you know, looking for candidates.
How many jump to a salary because sometimes I know,
I get a hit up from recruiters all the time
asking me, hey, we got this position opening, but they
won't tell you the salary up front.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
They want to interview you and do all.

Speaker 5 (10:59):
This stuff in the background, like what's your steps of
doing that when it comes to salary?

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, So I would say, I guess my process is
a little bit different because I'm not a recruiter. I'm
a sorcer. So let's just say on average, you know,
I got like what fifteen like engineering positions Like I
don't really have the time to drag it out. So
you ask me what the range is. I'm going to
give you the range. You know, I'll give you the
bonus and I always include the drop description too. You know,
I gotta I gotta look at my schedule, right, I

(11:26):
got fifteen positions I have to fill. So it's just
like I don't see the point of like dragging the process,
Like I don't get anything out of it.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
Yeah, no time will.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Waste it got you, Yeah, because I always asked off
the top, like, hey, what's the range of this? Because
at the end of the day, if it ain't at
this level while we even having this conversation, I could
be a great candidate. But if you're nowhere near my
my ballpark, doesn't do either of us any good. I
don't get a job, you don't get to fill a.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Spot, right. So the feedback I've heard from some recruiters
in the past is that if a candidate off the
top will ask what the salary, they just won't move
forward with them because they don't really feel like they're
interested in the role. I could see that too. Yeah,
for me, it's a little bit different because you know,
these are high priority positions, right, kind of just like

(12:16):
if I have fifteen positions and let's say like ten
of the fifteen are mid level roles that have been
vacant for the last six months, it's like I'm thinking
of burnout for the existing team, which is a concern, right.
We don't want to have people leave any of our
internal teams because they don't have the staffing and the
support they need, especially for high priority projects. So it's

(12:37):
like I don't really like to drag my feet when
it comes to these roles, especially if I know it's
a position, you know, that's been unfilled for six months
or longer. So I try to move quickly, you know,
give people the salary, give them the job description, and say, hey,
take a look at it, you know, if you're I'm
big on asking for referrals too, So even if the
position is not a good fit for the candidate I

(12:58):
reached out to, I'm like, hey, is there anyone in
your network that could be better suited for this role?
If so, feel free to pass my information along.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
I know you see pretty season in this. I don't
know if you said it, but how long have you
been doing this?

Speaker 1 (13:10):
So I've been a recruiter for six years. I'm like
a year and a half into tech, so it's a
different space. It's funny, I could tell sometimes when I
talk to candidates, like because I have really strong business
acumen about like what are company is doing? You know,
I try to connect with the CEO as much as
possible and learn as much as I can from like

(13:31):
our senior people. I find that a lot of like
candidates I talk to are really impressed with kind of
the business knowledge I have, and I always kind of
tell them I'm like, if I work for an organization, like,
I want to be confident that they're doing well financially.
And it's like, I want to have the confidence when
I'm reaching out to people right and saying, hey, you
should join this organization, not because I'm telling you to,

(13:51):
but because we're doing really well, you know, as a company,
and you know we're performing well, right, so you should
join us because we're doing well, and here are some
of the things we're looking to do in the future.
I find that when I can speak a little bit
to the tech let's say that, you know, we're really
looking to do more with cloud. If I could speak

(14:16):
a little bit to that, you know, that might pique
someone's interest and be like, Oh, tell me more about that.
What are some things What are some of the things
you guys are looking to do, you know, with cloud
technologies and stuff. So I'm very big on, you know,
just trying to join those calls with to learn more
about the business, right, because the business drives everything, the

(14:36):
tech drives everything, right. You know, when you look at
some of these companies, you know how they're able to
ramp up and hire people straight out of college. You know,
you'll ask people like, hey, you're graduating, what are the
top five companies you want to work for? And they'll
rattle up like Facebook, Google, you know what I mean.
And you have to think about that, like what's the
appeal with work? You know what I mean? And most

(14:57):
of the time it's like, oh, I'm going to work
for this organization because of the salary, because of the bonus,
because of the stock, or I know somebody who works there.
So it's like you constantly have to reassess, you know,
your brand presence and credibility if you will.

Speaker 6 (15:11):
You know, when the pandemic came along, pretty much expose
the entire world to remote work. And I'm curious on
how if it is any different, if it has become
more difficult for you to bring people back into the office,
or are those positions that you're hiring for at this point.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, totally, definitely, one hundred percent right, And that's when
I get on these intake meetings, you know, with my
hiring managers, that's the number one thing I'll ask them, like,
is there any flexibility to do fully remote And you know,
depending on the team and what they have going on, maybe,
but I would say now as of the last like
three to six months, it's been like, you know, it's hybrid,

(15:55):
non negotiable. Yeah. So as a sourcer, I don't do
the entire process. So that's the difference between me and
a recruiter. A recruiter does what's called full cycle recruitment
where they will post the job, screen the candidate, schedule
the interviews, extend the offer, get the offer, create the
offer letter. So I used to do full cycle recruitment

(16:16):
because I did a little bit of a pivot and
I'm doing fintech recruitment, which is a mix of finance
and technology. It's a different space. It was a new
challenge for me. So they had a recruiter opening when
I interviewed for the role, but I decided to come
in as a sorcer because I think that when you're
kind of pivoting a little bit into a new industry,

(16:38):
it's like you want to make sure that you're really
good at what you're doing before you take on the
full cycle piece. So that's why I decided to come
on as a sourcer. I've learned a lot in eight months.
I'm very big and proactive on kind of putting myself
out there, right, Like I'll show up to these meetings
with all these senior people, right, these vps, these SVPs,

(17:00):
they're doing their presentations, and I ask them, right, like, hey,
I work in talent acquisition. I've been here for eight months.
You know. I'm constantly talking to candidates. Why should somebody
leave their current organization and work here, right, especially if
it's someone that's well tenured, they've been with us for
ten years, fifteen years, particularly if they have a family, right,
they have kids. I ask them like, do you feel
like you have a good work life balance? And I

(17:21):
think when you kind of ask those questions and you
put people on the spot, you know, it makes them think, right,
because most of the time the feedback I get is, Wow,
I've been here for ten years and I can't remember
the last time somebody asked me like why I've been
here that long? Right, And most of the time the
feedback I get is the people. The people that work
at Charles River Development are very sharp, very dedicated, committed

(17:43):
to getting the work done and also a commitment to
produce and quality work. So, like, you know, I like
to hear that. It makes you feel good when you're
part of talent acquisition and you hear that people are
having good experiences, especially for women.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
We know that women, particularly women of color, are very underrepresented,
you know, in tech. So I you know, especially if
it's a woman that has a family, I'll ask them, right, Like,
if you're able to be you know, at the top
of your game, right you're an s VP for us,
or you're a managing director. You know, it's hard to work,
right there may be some travel involved, but if you're

(18:18):
willing to still stick with the organization, then that must
mean that you know, we're offering you know, we're able
to provide some sort of work life balance for you
to continue doing the work that you do for us.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
There's some value there, right, Yeah, So would you consider
yourself an introvert or extrovert?

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Definitely an extrovert, my goodness, Like, I'll talk to anyone.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
I can see it, I can tell it.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
And the reason why I ask because I'm more of
an introvert personally, but I can like bubble up the
whole outgoing persona onto where you know, you're navigating the
social circles and stuff like that. But I only have
a little bit, But I guess you can just go
so with the with you guys, you know in the

(19:02):
fintech space, that's you know, finance, financials and technicals. Right,
So are you in your position are you only do
you only source tech tiling or do you also have
to source finance professionals if that's the right word for them.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, So I primarily do tech. I do a little
bit of like implementation, which is a mix of like
tech and consulting, so recruiting people that have to go
out into our market and like present to our clients
and do like live software implementations for us. And they
have to be tech savvy because if there are any

(19:41):
issues with the software, they have to be able to
go in and kind of work through those technical issues.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
I didn't do corporate positions, So anything that would fall
under like accounting or or finance or payroll or like
an administrative position that would be considered a corporate le
So I wouldn't work on that position, but anything having
to do you know, with engineering at any level, you know,
more like entry level to mid level. Those are the

(20:09):
type of positions I would be actively recruiting for.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
And I guess is there like an I guess another designation,
a senior tech sorcer that would go and push for
like the senior level roles.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
I know what you said, entry to med.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, so it wouldn't necessarily be a sorcerer. So I'm
actually in the US at least like our only sorcer.
We do have sorcers in India because we do quite
a bit of recruitment in India, but everyone else that
I partner with is a technical recruiter. So my like

(20:47):
the head of talent acquisition basically would take on those
senior level roles. So you know, a VP position CTO right,
those high profile positions are Head of Talent Acquisition would
work on those positions because they're much too senior.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
For me, you know what, And I think I think
I missed, miss understood what you was saying when you said,
you know, interesting to me, I'm thinking about like technical
like you have you have the entry level guys associate
level and then all the way to senior principal, and
it's it's so confused because there're an organization, different organizations

(21:26):
that have different names for them, you know, right, Yeah,
it's it's kind of weird, but.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, right, it depends on Like I've seen some companies
that will call it principle someone that has like fifteen years,
but maybe another organization says ten to fifteen is considered principle.
So it really does depend on the organization.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
I've heard that, like so, so I've heard some advice
and I've done this too. Advice was given that if
you're coming up to an interview, if you have the
name of the person, do a little research on them,
find their LinkedIn, find their social media, and find out
some things they're interested in, and then bring those up
in conversation to I guess build a rapport?

Speaker 2 (22:03):
Does that work? Like for you?

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Have you ever experienced someone doing that to you where
they brought up some stuff about when you went to
school or yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
So I would say it hasn't happened to me personally,
but I've done that in an interview. So actually, my
former manager had been with Charles River for twenty years,
and that's one of the questions I asked him. I'm like, hey,
you know, I checked out your LinkedIn so that you've
been with the organization for twenty years, and you know,
that's a very impressive tenure. You know, people typically don't
stay with their organizations for that long. And I was like,

(22:33):
you know, what are all the things that caused you
to be loyal to this organization for that long? And
he actually paused, And that's how I knew that that
was a really good question, and he said it right.
He was just like, wow, like I've been here twenty years, right,
And he's like, I can't remember the last time, if ever,
anyone ever asked me that question. Yeah, and it definitely

(22:57):
put me on the map. And it's funny too because
I can He was just like, oh my goodness, Like
this was such a good interview, Like you re starged,
you knew what you were talking about, you knew what
we did. And he was just like, I'm getting ready
to go on vacation, but like I'm gonna you know,
schedule your second in your third interview with the team,
and you know they should follow up with you so
by the time I come back from vacation, we could

(23:18):
just debrief very quickly and kind of make a decision.
So once I got the offer, I was like I
did that. I was like I did that.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
He was already in the bags to make a decision.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
You know, how you schedule a second and third.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
You can't schedule a third without second. I'm gonna go
in and get your dance.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah. I always kind of tell people preparation is key, right,
Like you have access to LinkedIn. LinkedIn is free, you know,
leverage these resources. Find out who you're interviewing with. Find out,
you know, if they've had a couple of promotions, right,
ask them about yeah, ask them about their current role.

(23:59):
I like to ask people full you know, my engineers
about projects. Like, give me an example of a most
recent project you did where you had a lot of
technical challenge. Walk me through, how do you strategize? Right,
let's say you got a critical incident I don't know,
at one o'clock in the morning, Right, how do you
do that? You know? How do you just pivot to

(24:19):
come up with a strategy and be prepared to present
it to your team and be confident that you can
execute on it.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Right.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
I think it's stressful, right, I read the job descriptions
for our roles. And I'm just like, I see why
you're making top dollar because this is you know, this
is like twenty four to seven, right, especially if it's cybersecurity.
You know you're expected to perform, but perform at a
high level like any given time too. I'm just like,
I can't imagine someone putting me on the spot at
one o'clock in the morning. I'm just going to be

(24:47):
like whoa, Like, I'm just waking up. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
The way I do, I just sleep on it and
then I get a bit seven o'clock and I tell
them what to do.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, I want to hear some stories.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
What's the weirdest. What's some of the weirdest that you
had to contain? Look on the phone with a potential candidate?

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Oh my goodness. So I remember, and this was very
early in my career. Like I used to work at
an agency and I called this guy about a job.
I can't even remember what the job was. He wasn't interested,
he was already working, and he was like, wait a minute,
you have such a nice voice. He was like, let
me how let you let me get your number? And
I was just like, well, no, I can't do my number,

(25:28):
but I appreciate the compliment. That was really sweet. He
was just like yeah, he just got such a nice voice.
And I was just like trying to trying to shoot
your shot.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
Man. Yeah, you're cute.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
So I was just like okay. I was like, wow,
this is different. But yeah, that was so weird. I
can remember one time this is real. I had a
candidate come in for an in person interview. She was like,
are you Ismael And I was like yeah, we've you know,
we've been communicating via email, and she was like you're black.

(26:02):
I was just like yes, and she was just like
you sound white. She was like I thought you were
white and I was like I'm not. And she was
just like that's crazy, like you're a black woman, you're
I was like I am. And she's like and your
name is is Myel And I was like it is
and she's like I had no idea that you were black,
and I was just.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
It really tripped her up. She was like, I thought
you were Jewish. Like she wasn't feeling it was weird. Yeah, yeah,
she thought I was Jewish, and I guess when she
saw it was a black woman, she was just like,
there's no way. And I was like, well, that's my name.
Sorry to disappoint, no oh man, I'm Haitian. I'm Haitian American.

(26:48):
And I was like, you got to say the name
with the accent is Mayel Saloon. It's giving, Haitian's giving name,
it's giving, Biblical.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
I'm just like, I got a question. Actually I didn't
have a question.

Speaker 5 (27:06):
Marco and I mean Rico just going at it as
you with you being a source, like as a source
or a source, what's some of the good questions you've
heard from a candidate asked you about the company or
just in general.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, so I've had people ask me, you know, if
they've gone on my LinkedIn, like why did I join
the organization? I think that's a good question. I told
them I joined because I was looking for a challenge.
I had done technical recruitment prior to Charles River, but
I didn't have the finance piece. And I can remember
the way that my manager where did it. He's like,
you need to get into fintech. He's like it's you know,

(27:44):
it's hot, basically it's booming. He's like you're young, He's like,
you're inquisitive, you're going to come in here, You're going
to learn this very complicated stuff. And he's like, and
you're going to make a lot of money.

Speaker 4 (27:55):
And that was.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Appealing to me, right, I was like, you see that
in me? He's like, you got this. So and then
another reason why I joined is because my team is
wild tenured. So a lot of the technical recruiters I
work with have been with the organization between I think
on the lower end like eight years and max is

(28:16):
like fifteen. So people stay. People stay with the organization.
You know, they enjoy the work that they do, they
like the challenge of it. You know, they have a
good work life balance and you know, the pays decent.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
They're not foundling that bag.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
No, not at all.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
There you go, what do you what do you?

Speaker 3 (28:36):
Are you seeing any shifts in the way you guys
conduct business in light of newer technologies out there? You
got you know, Chad gpt Ai The AIS is the
new hotness right now? Right, Yeah, you guys you know
investigating that at least are talking about that, not that.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
I know of, not yet. I mean, maybe these conversations
are happening behind the scenes and I'm not aware of it,
but not yet I haven't had anyone say, like mention
anything to me.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Yea, I have a question.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
So, based on some of the ricks, the job ricks
that you've seen, like during your whole tenure. If I'm
a new guy interested in coming into tech, where would
you encourage me to go into? Like if satary was
the thing, Hey, you want to maximolagine your dollar, where
would I go into?

Speaker 1 (29:26):
It's it might sound weird to say, but law firms,
law firms, mm hmm. There are some law firms that
you know have like technical people on staff. Whether it's
like what do they call it. I think it's like
it technical support. I tell people to get into roles
where they work across time zones. I think that's it

(29:49):
makes you very marketable if you're working with you know,
working with like international teams, go for it. And then
of course, any organization that's going to help with technical
certifications because they're pretty pricey, go for that, or will
just support you or provide any type of financial support

(30:11):
with furthering your education. I'm like, if you could get
that degree debt free, do it, look it out, don't
take don't you know, don't take the loans if you
don't have to write. Everyone's situation is different. But if
you could find an organization that will help cover some
of the costs of the technical certifications, like try to
get as many as possible.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Right, what's some of the most use you've seen somebody
squeeze out of an offer? Like you got a candidate
who's very qualified, but they need a few things. What's
the most thing you've seen somebody ask for on top
of like just a salary or the standard bonus that
was already on the table.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
I'm trying to think, honestly, I don't feel like i've
seen anything.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
No leave, additional leave or vacation days, or trying to
think training exactly is that a thing?

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Like is it good outside of the TV? Like, oh,
you need to bring more to the table.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
I had a manager that told me that. He sat
me down and said, you know, you got to really
really sell yourself. You know, if there's something that you want,
you bring that to the table when you're at the table.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
If you want a.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Certain amount of training, a certain amount of glasses, or
a certain amount of conferences, you let them know you
want two conferences, you want four training weeks, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
But I just never seen it play out.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
I've never seen it play out. And to be honest
with you, you know, I think that most people aren't
really that great with negotiation, right right, That's just the truth.
I've talked to a lot of candidates, and I've been
fully transparent with them. I think I'll tell them, like
right off, that I think you're low balling yourself if
you're doing so because you think that by giving me
a lower salary range that I'll be more interested in

(31:57):
pushing you forward. I actually won't do that, because you're
going to be that person that when we're getting ready
to extend an offer, you're going to come back and
decline the offer because you think the salary is too low.
But when I asked you what you're looking for, you
didn't tell me the one sixty to one ad. You
said one forty to one fifty. When you know that
you wouldn't accept an offer for one fifty because that's

(32:18):
what you're currently earning right now. So I just tell people,
I'm like, listen, just tell me what you're looking for.
Be as transparent as possible so we can keep the
process moving. Because once you get to the offer stage,
where we've already done the work on our end, because
at least for my organization, our CEO approves every job offer, right,
And I don't know if every organization, I'm sure not

(32:41):
every organization is set up that way. So I tell
people that, you know what I mean, It's like, by
the time it gets to him, he might look at
it and be like, this is your job title? You
want how much?

Speaker 3 (32:55):
No?

Speaker 1 (32:57):
You know what I mean? Though, I'm just like, I
think so some people are unaware of that. But I
tell people that upfront, I'm like, listen, by the time
it gets to him, you know, the numbers are either
the math is either mathing or it's not right. But
I tell people that. I was like, I think when
you're part of an organization where the CEO is looking
at every single offer, it holds everybody accountable, right, because

(33:20):
he wants to make sure that, you know, we're not
just blowing money. You know what I mean, We're not
paying all of our engineers three hundred thousand when they're
like three years into the you know what I mean, Like,
let's make it reasonable, right, You're not going to have
a junior level engineer making three hundred thousand, and if
you are that's great for you, but for our organization, like,

(33:41):
we're going to compensate on the higher end where it
makes sense to do so, right, And I think now
that people are seeing a lot of layoffs, they're getting
a better sense of how the business actually works. And
I think more people are realizing that they have to
have a vested interest in how well the company is doing.
Because if the co and he's not doing well, that's
when you start getting emails that you're not going to

(34:02):
get your bonus this quarter, right, because the organization as
a whole, you know, didn't reach their numbers as far
as revenue is concerned. So that's why I tell people like,
I'm not pretending when I say that I'm interested in
the business because it affects me too. Right, if the
company is not performing, I might be let go, right,
and it's like, oh, we don't have any positions for
you to work on, so there's no need for your role.

(34:24):
So I try to make sure that you know, I
check those reports, and I go to those meetings, and
I ask questions too as to you know, how are
we doing as an organization.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
That's a good point.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
So have you ever found yourself in the CEO's office,
explaining like, hey, this guy asked for this, but we
think he's worth it.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
No, I don't. Actually, the only conversation I've had with
him with business was funny, and he just kept a
roll with me. He was like, it's cheaper to hire overseas,
so if you want to hire a bunch of engineers
in India, go nuts. But he's like, as far as
the US is concerned, we're going to try to like
rain and spend a little bit. And it's funny. I
was just like, but then I have to deal with immigration,

(35:05):
right right, But it.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
Made sense from a business standpoint though, yes, very much.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
So. Yeah, as much as you're saying, oh it doesn't
sound American, it's capitalism exactly.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
So well.

Speaker 5 (35:20):
Question no, no, no, Mark, I was just want to
pickyback off you pickback. But basically you mentioned something about
the offer letter asking for extra stuff. I did that
my corrent roll and both of them got approved extra.
Yeah what you ask for more PTO and uh more book?

Speaker 4 (35:38):
Yeah? So yeah, so definitely know your value.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
Yes, I always ask, even though you need you need
to have a negotiation masterclass, Kenny.

Speaker 5 (35:49):
Yeah, I think of something I got you.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Go ahead, Marca, No, no, I ain't have anything. Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Why are you talking about me? I want to kick
you out of the room, bro, Frank is my I
noticed you said, you know you know your your hiring
manager when you interviewed at least and said that, uh,
you mentioned three rounds, right, he said, he'll schedule you
for your second and third. Is that typically how you

(36:20):
guys roll three rounds of interviews or is it more?

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Is it different for technical staff?

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah, so I would say three. I would say are
more senior level roles because there's the one on one
interview that you might have with one hiring manager. And
then for our engineers, they like to do like a
panel interview right where they'll have a current engineer, they'll
have like a team lead, or they might have two
team leads, and everyone wants to go around and ask,

(36:49):
you know, technical questions or ask behavioral based questions. I
don't want to say I don't see the value of
behavioral based questions, but basically I think people get good.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
At google behavioral based question. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
So behavioral based question could be.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Like how do you deal with conflict with me?

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Right?

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (37:09):
So naughty?

Speaker 4 (37:12):
Right?

Speaker 1 (37:12):
Exactly? So give me an example of a time where
I don't know, you fail to complete you know, a budget,
a project, you know by the deadline. How did you
handle that?

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Right, I'm gonna tell you that shit.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Appart, right. I mean, I don't at this point, I
really don't me. I don't. I don't put a lot
of weight on those questions. I look for people that
are sharp, right, I look for people who are not
umming me to death. That's a big pet peeve of mine.
My goodness. If I'm on the phone with an engineer
who's been in the industry for fifteen to twenty years

(37:50):
and I asked you a base of question and you're
umming me, I'm.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Just like, yeah, right, yeah, And you asked me a
question about when its last time I turned something like, man,
I have a turn stuff in on time because I'm
always early.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Love that.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Nice.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Yeah, just don't call my references.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
But honestly, though, I what I've realized is, even if
I'm talking to a candidate that's not the most extrovert,
is people do respond to your energy. I'm a high energy,
positive person, and I try to make sure that the conversations,
you know, go well. You know, I tell you, I'm
not here to make you uncomfortable. I'm not here to
interrogate you. You know, if there are a couple of

(38:34):
gaps in your resume, you know, I might say like, hey,
I noticed that. You know, you've done a lot of
contract positions. You know, let's talk about it. And the
reason why I do that is because if you're not
comfortable disclosing that to me as a sorcer or as
a recruiter, if the hiring manager goes to ask you, right,
and there's a little bit of tension there, then you know,
I kind of want to prep the candidate as much

(38:56):
as possible for what's to come in the future.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
So what what what if some of the I mean,
you kind of went through some of them already, but
I was I was gonna I want to know, what
do you see the most where? What do you see
candidates air the most? You know, is it like just
you're not being prepared?

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (39:17):
You know, you know, maybe trying to answer something that
they know they don't know the answer to instead of
just saying I can't answer that question. You know, what,
what do you see the most of that that that
people could easily avoid in your opinion.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, I would say I see a little bit of
cockiness sometimes when people come from like really top companies,
you know, Google, Facebook. It's kind of just like, I
know this is an interview, but my resume speaks for itself,
so like when you're asking questions, they don't really want
to like answered like that. I'm just like, this is

(39:55):
so corny. I'm like, honestly, these companies are wonderful organizations,
but we're trying to figure out why you would be
a good fit for us.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
People come to interviews not expecting to answer.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Questions, not really talking. It's like pulling teeth. Wow, it's
been awkward.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah, that sounds like a part of it sounds like
a hit against their behavioral you know, right, because you're
probably not going to be very cohesive with the team.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Probably speaks to why they're not that those organizations as well.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Could be Yeah, for sure given arrogant.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Exactly parton thoughts anybody. I mean, we're at the top
of the hour.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
It kind of crept up on this isma me, you
owe me a coffee making making me make my team
wait for fifteen minutes, So you know, it's no non apologist.
I was about to say, don't apologize to get my
coffee whenever I'm in the DC area.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Oh, Boston, Boston.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Was in Boston. I know, been to Boston, Boston.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
You should come to Boston. That's called and windy.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
I won't come to Boston, so you have to like
email me a coffee.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
I got you.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
I waited too, I want coffee. All right.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Well, so any last any part in thoughts before we
before we close this thing out, Ismael or any of
the other guys, tech guys, tech folks. Yeah, I thought
it was great. I definitely learned some stuff. So anytime
I can learn something, that's a good conversation. So I
like your energy very bubbly, very inviting to a conversation.

(41:35):
So definitely enjoyed it. Oran the Chet wants to know
what company you work for, as ma'am.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah, ro River Development.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, so Charles River Development is the software company. We're
owned by State Street. So if you're actively like looking
for openings, it would be like state street dot com
and go to our careers tab and you'll see like
the positions that were active recruiting for.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
Is that is that the best way you would you
want candidates like reaching out to either I mean, do
you want them to find you or anything like that?

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, I mean I'm on LinkedIn. Yeah. So the thing
is we have different like talent acquisition teams. So State
Street is an investment bank. So people that are looking
for more like corporate type roles like you had mentioned earlier,
like accounting associate or like a business analyst, like those
type of analytical positions that would fall under State Street.

(42:31):
But anyone looking for a more technical role that would
be Charles River, but it would be under State Street.
It's like career website because we're owned by State Street.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
God, got it? All right, Well I won't.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
I won't give you information because I don't want to
like beating you down your door or nothing like that.
They can they go to go to the website that
she just gave apply to the jobs. They got a
lot of jobs, and based on what she's told us,
they're paying no list than three hundred k.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
So no, a yeah, depends on the position.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
They paying everybody three hundred k?

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Everybody a K?

Speaker 2 (43:15):
All right?

Speaker 3 (43:15):
All right, cool, So that's let me let me go
ahead and stop this so we can start a question.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
Did anybody else have something I just want to.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
Say, thanks, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yeah, so let me see. So I work primarily on
like engineering, I would say the ranges i've been seeing,
I think on the lower end, i've seen like one ten.
On the higher end, i've seen one eighty. I've seen
two hundred twenty five, depending on the role, right, depending

(43:57):
on how senior the position is, how many years of
experience you need, how technical the position is.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
You're trying to go back into the office of quise.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
You know what I mean, You're gonna come off.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
They not say it.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, I was just gonna say. So when you go
to our careers website, we do have the salary ranges,
and that's that's new because we didn't.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
I know some some some states is like a part
of the legal system where they're required that you post
the range from positions.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
I think for us that was the feedback. A lot
of people were complaining and they're just like, you don't
post the salary ranges. So I think when the decision
was made to post the salary ranges, the thought is
maybe if we post it, more people will apply now
that they know what the ranges for the rule.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
Right, have you seen that like half and it has
it happened like that?

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, Yeah, We've definitely had a lot more people applied,
depending on the position. And sometimes people apply because they
know someone, right, they know someone that works for the organization,
or they used to work for State Street. They left
and they want to come back. I've seen a lot
of those, Oh.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
It is that good of a company, people just they
leave and then they're just like, oh, no, I didn't
have that.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
I didn't know how good I had it.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
She's not better than you, she's not promised.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
I think sometimes what people the grass is not always greener, right.
I always kind of tell people, I'm like, if you
see a ton of people just leaving to go join
this particular organization and then they get laid off after
six months, like, you know, yeah, was it worth it?
Maybe to some you know, money talks, it does, right,
So for some people you could get them to leave,

(45:50):
you know, just got to offer them a little bit
more money, right right, right, they're out exactly.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
It's like a temporary thing.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
No really, right, I mean it's money is good, but
it is it doesn't like it doesn't persist over. You know,
a great work environment and great people. I mean if
you have if you if you had one of two right, shoot,
one of like three things. I always say, it's like
three things, you know, uh, compensation, uh, organization and then.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Professional you know development.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
Right if you if you can give I feel like
if you can give at least if you can satisfy
three of those two of two of those three people
stay right, So you can't like pay me, well, give
me a crappy uh, crappy you know, organization you know,
you know, crappy culture, and then no real ability to

(46:50):
you know.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Push myself forward professionally.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
You know it just doesn't you know, last, but you
can pay me, Okay, But then I have you know,
great great great?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Uh what.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Level mobility? I have great leve mobility. I like, I
enjoy the people that.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
I work around. Yeah, a personal stay.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
So like I said, if two out of those three,
that will keep a can of keep pushing around.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
But money is like, I.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
Mean, more money, more problem.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
How long? How long before you know a person is
I want to make six figures?

Speaker 3 (47:27):
Right? That was that was when I was younger. That
was that was the thing. Everyone want to make six figures.
I'm still trying to after you after you've made six
figures for let's say, three to five years.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
It's it's not it's not all that great. More like
you just I think there.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Was a study that says that anything over eighty doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah, I could, I could see that you getting to.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
I mean, if you go from eighty to two hundred,
I think that kind of matters. I mean, I mean
just a little bit. I mean, all right, talking y'all.
I mean, Kenny Jonah, you guys got anything. Y've been quiet.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
After you, Kenny, Oh my go ahead?

Speaker 3 (48:10):
All right, Wow, she said, I know Kenny from the Motherland.

Speaker 6 (48:19):
It's been really dope listening to you. You sound very
professional and very knowledgeable. It seems like you've made a
lot of headway in a short amount of time with
being in this current technical space, and it's encouraging that you,
as a recruiter slash sorcer, are willing to go the

(48:41):
extra miles to learn the technology. I think that's really
important when it comes down to engineers. I'm getting comfortable
in the roles because sometimes we have technical questions that
that first point of contact can't answer, but we really
want those answers, like hey, is this say a twenty
four to seven. Ship is this what kind of technology

(49:02):
you're using? Are using Cisco or broke at Juniper? Is
it AWS or is it GCP or Azure. So for
you to be getting yourself into the technology, it makes
it a lot easier for us to you know, get
comfortable with the role and like you said, not waste
anyone's time. So it's a it's a beautiful thing to

(49:22):
see you in the position that you are. And as
Marco said earlier, you seem lovely easy to talk to.
So keep it up, stay strong, and you know, maybe
if you see my resume come across, you just slide
that thing right into the wind section.

Speaker 4 (49:37):
Boy, you know what I mean?

Speaker 6 (49:39):
Me, Kenny, Marquis, Rico and Marco just just slide them
all into the wind section.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Yeah. So it's funny that you said that, because that's
one thing that I definitely will ask my hiring managers
when I read their job description. You know, I just
tell I'm like, I'm gonna need you to get to
the point like what do people need to know? Right?
Because some of these job descriptions it makes it seem
like you need to know everything. I'm like, what do
these people need to know, like, now, right, you're going
to hire this person, they accept the offer, we're going

(50:06):
to onboard them, they pass the background check, whatever it
is that we do for the onboarding, and they start,
what do they need to know?

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Now?

Speaker 1 (50:13):
I can guarantee you they don't need to know all
of this right, the ins and out. So I always
make sure that my hiring managers can at least answer
that question because a lot of these job descriptions are old. Yeah,
just copy and paste. Yeah, they've been copying pasted it
for the last ten years. And I'm like, okay, well,
what are you guys doing now?

Speaker 3 (50:31):
You know?

Speaker 1 (50:31):
And that's another question I'll ask too, like does this
job description reflect what your engineers do right now? Because
if it doesn't, then we need to revamp it. Right.
Do some edits take some things out of that?

Speaker 6 (50:43):
That's really awesome because me too, those systems engineer positions
that they put out, like from it's confusing. You sit
there like, systems engineer, do you mean virtualization? Do you
mean hardware? Do you mean coding? And then they'll have
something through a plug I mean plus but see plus
plus in there, or you know, just throw Python. They'll

(51:04):
throw all kinds of stuff, and there's like, that's why
you get a thousand million people interviewing, but no one's
really qualified.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
That's the issue, though, that's the issue. So they've they've,
they've they've talked about this, and well I've I've I've
heard it brought up in a couple of different conversations.
But they've seen that a lot of a lot of
times people of color, they won't apply to a role
that don't meet one hundred percent, right, but you know,

(51:32):
other other demographics so they will. But most people, they'll say, hey,
if you if you meet seventy five eighty percent of it,
go ahead and pot. You know.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
This.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
That's why I try to tell people, you know, same thing.
Just if you if you meet the bulk of the requirement,
if you meet the first three the first three bullets,
go for it. That's the important stuff. Everything else was like, oh,
we need to fill up this paper probably you know,
but the first three things, those are those are the
important things.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
I agree. And if you're a quick learner, you know,
if you're willing to learn, apply go for it.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Tell yourself.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
Okay, I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed this talk, and
you really open my eyes to a lot of different things,
and I wish there was more you know, sources and
people that work in that space that have because I
can hear the.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Savior complaints coming out.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
You really want to change the way, you know, you
guys do business, and you see these deficiencies that you
want to correct because you see, you see how it
affects you guys, You see how it negatively affects candidates
and causes confusion and the like. So I definitely appreciate that,
and I hope that I hope we can be the

(52:59):
rea when you get like an influx of candidates breaking
down your door.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Yeah, that would be great. And to be honest with
you too, you know, I've never had an experience like
this when you walk into your building and everybody looks
at you like do you work here? What do you
do for us? Type?

Speaker 2 (53:19):
Look?

Speaker 1 (53:20):
You know, every time I'm in my office and everybody
you know walking by like she has an office, Like, yeah,
I got an office, what's up? I hire people for
this organization, right, I do get a lot of looks. Yeah,
you know, I work with a lot of men. I
work with a lot of men, right, And I think
the perception is like you're a woman and you're you know,

(53:40):
a black woman at that, right, and you're on the
phone with these engineers and people see that, you know
what you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
They're just like, oh, that's why you're here. Okay, So right,
you know, do you see a problem with a representation?
Do you see a lack of representation in your current
organization or throughout the industry?

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Yeah, throughout the industry, definitely. But you know, I'm not
here to be a token. Yeah, I make that very clear.
If you're going to try to take these pictures, put
me on a brochure, We're not doing that. Yeah, take
me off the website. Don't put me on the website, right,
because it's all advertisement. Right, you're essentially trying to present
that you're diverse. Tokenism and diversity is not the same thing, right,

(54:24):
those who get it get it right. It's always a
good luck. Oh yeah yeah, put her in the front.
Put her in the front, like now, put me in.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
The back, yeah, right exactly. Roads of park me right exactly.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
And that's that's that's that's the move, that's that's how
that's our play. You know, we're trying to get rid
of that. I tell people I hate that ship.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
I hate it.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Makes me uncomfortable. It is it really does.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
You got to question and chat. They want to know
how old you are?

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Oh, I'm thirty with the baby face.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Very much so, very much so that I'm like, you
seem young, but you talk very mature.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Look the tag answer for the numbers.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Watch somebody gonna ask.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
But no, you know, that's that's the that's that's that's
the play that we go for.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
You know, we're trying to we're trying to get rid
of that because I hate that ship. I hate that.
I hate this whole you know, first you know, first
black this first black dad.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
I just I just want to be I don't want
to be regular. I want to be a rock star,
be regular, not a black rock star. I'm a rock star.
All right.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Well, I think we already hit closing thoughts and we
went on a different tangent. I do wish if I
could change anything about this conversation with it. We definitely
have went more. We usually do talk more about, you know, representation.
It seems like a lot to say about that. But
we'll table it and maybe we'll have a panel where
we've kind of discussed that or doing a m We

(55:58):
talk about that, but I do appreciate you dollar.

Speaker 6 (56:02):
Yeoh, Kenny, I'm sorry, not Kenny Rico. You didn't get
Kenny's closing thoughts.

Speaker 5 (56:08):
I just want to say no, no, no, because Jona
had jumped in. But I just want to say thank
you for putting you know, all of us are technical.
Well we all got take backgrounds for putting us in
a different part of the chair. So continue thriving and
thanks again for coming.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Thank you, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.
This is the first time I've ever done a podcast,
and this was a really neat experience. I would definitely
be down to do it again.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Yeah, black engineers within your organization point in this way.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
I want to talk to him.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Nice Yeah, and you and you the first black hat
on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
So female female.

Speaker 6 (56:59):
I'm heady.

Speaker 4 (57:00):
You're right, but I think you ain't know only Joe up.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Marquise.

Speaker 4 (57:05):
Yeah wait, marque you hate you hate to do you know?

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (57:16):
H so I believed my wife. I'm losing an American.
I do speak HATIONI for y'all with an American. You're
trying to shave me. But I'm like, I'm very much,
one hundred percent Haitian. Don't don't do me like that
wim pilot use.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
If I didn't speak crill, I won't be hatey, So don't.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
All right, Yeah, getting out of control every day.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Calm down, Calm down,