024: Can Black Girls Hack?

The conversation with Tennisha Martin, founder of Black Girls Hack, a range of topics, including the challenges with finding your way, getting help in order to grow, and a discussion on diversity in cybersecurity and artificial intelligence. The speakers share their thoughts on bias in AI and the importance of diversity in technology fields. The conversation covers a range of topics related to diversity in tech, the impact of AI on underrepresented communities, the importance of hands-on experience in cybersecurity education, and the journey of creating and running Black Girls Hack. The speakers also discuss the need for more Black representation in the tech industry and the challenges faced by Black women in the field. The conversation delves into the significance of soft skills, career planning, and the path to achieving career goals in cybersecurity. Tennisha Martin discusses her work, personal branding, and the mission of Black Girls Hack. She also shares insights on time management, code-switching, and the importance of surrounding oneself with an amazing support system. The conversation concludes with a discussion about upcoming events and the exchange of swag.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It was good. Everybody, welcome back to the show. This
is Dim Tech Post podcast and we're publishing now episode
twenty four. To believe it or not, this is an
old episode that we recorded back in June the fifth
of twenty twenty four with none other than the founder
of Black Girls Hack.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Right.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
We had a great conversation, very engaging, very funny. We
had a great time. We talked about everything. We talked
about higher education, we talked about mental health, we talked
about family, and believe it or not, she's a huge fan,
so we had to talk about Sean de Ronch. If
you've enjoyed the show so far, don't forget to like, share, subscribe,
Please share this with all your family and friends. We

(00:39):
can build and grow our support system and just enjoy
the show. There you go.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
So I did not get into medical school. I applied
to like ten or eleven schools and didn't get in.
So my father wanted me to be a programmer, and
I was like, whatever I'm doing, I'm not going to
be a programmer. So I found that I actually liked
breaking software and figuring out why it's not you know,
when I started a Black Girls Hack, you know, I
said I was going to provide resources for folks so

(01:07):
that they can find like low cost alternatives to getting
training because at the time, like, you know, the thing
of the day was, hey, you go and pay tens
of thousands of dollars for a boot camp that may
or may not get you a job that jobs may
or may not respect in terms of people who are
going to fight for the issues that are impacting these issues,
especially as they come to you know, bias and discrimination,

(01:28):
are going to be the people who are a victim
of it, which are underrepresented communities. So we need to
start seeing. The director easily actually came by, you know,
to our village and I think it was the only
village that she went through, uh that year when she
came to DEPFCON. So the next year we applied, We're like, hey,
you know, we're going to bring back girls girls hacked

(01:48):
village again and DEFCON basically said that they didn't see
the value of us coming that they were like not
cho like we had been planning to do this, So
we had to basically pivot and you know, stand up
our own you know conference and like, not only are
we holding it, we're gonna hold it on the same
days Like that's how how do you tell them when

(02:10):
they when they got you fed up? Like it's like
I don't have problems with I'm watching trying to rye.
I can't take no loss. I don't even know what
the jobs up.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Hit the ground in and.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
Go off, Yeah, hit the ground in the go off. Yeah.
I can't take no loss.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Ye, I don't even know what the job. I hit
the ground in.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
The Grandad's Nation.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Martin.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
I am the executive director and founder of Black Girls Have.
We are a nonprofit training organization set up to help
increase diversity in cybersecurity and technology fields, and we provide
training and resources for people who are looking to either
get into the industry or or transition from another industry.
UH North Northeast DC Bord Street. I am from Kenilworth,

(02:54):
So I'm from St.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
Petersburg, Les Southeast.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Hey. Yeah, kind of had like a little moment rated
like people in d C had like a certain like
a nut or handsha Like somebody said that from DC,
Like all right, show me the handshake.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Well, no, you got to ask them if they're actually
from d C, because there'll be people who will be
like I'm from like PG County and they'll be like,
I'm from DC, and I'm like, no, I'm from like
actual d C.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
Interaction.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
So my mom is from northeast and my dad is
from southeast. So I am from DC through and through,
which I'm very proud of because you know, there was
a lot of folks that didn't make it out. So yeah,
I'm happy.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
To be here.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
What was the best part about growing up in DC
that you remember?

Speaker 3 (03:47):
I think it prepared me for the level of foolishness
and you know, just drama in the workforce because I
think just dealing with like crackheads and hoodlands and you know,
my my my friends from the around the neighborhood. I
can I can be put in any environment and I'll

(04:09):
be okay. And I think for me, that's probably the
best thing that it did. It just made me very
like when you talk about code switching, like I can
literally be putting any any environment and I'll be all right.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Is that because you just kind of you know, you
you adjust to environments. You do a lot of codes
which you.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
Feel darwin like survival of the fittest, you know. So
it's it's literally like you either get it together, you
you're not gonna be here anymore, so I've had to
get it together.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Gotcha, gotcha? Gotcha? Cool? Cool? And at what point, growing
up in d C, did you find that you wanted
to work in this field? Well, actually, hold on you
you you say with em T. I gotta feeling that
there's some other professions that came there for after that.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Like yeah, So I went to school so for electric
room and peter engineering, and at some point I decided
I wanted to go to medical school. So I finished
my engineering courses kind of early, so like I did
my electives in like you know, organic chemistry and chemistry
and all of those pre med type courses or whatever.
So I did whatever I could before I graduated, and

(05:18):
then I went to my first master's degree, and there
was in healthcare policy and management. I did that for
a couple of years, and then when I left, I
moved outside of Philly for a couple of years and
did pre med at Cheney which is in Chester, Pennsylvania.
And I did that for a couple of years because
my plan was to apply to medical school and if

(05:39):
I didn't get in, then I was gonna have to
join the real world. So I did not get into
medical school. I applied to like tenor eleven schools and
didn't get in, So I ended up having to enjoy
the real world and got a job in doing it
healthcare consulting.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
So it was your fallback.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Well, my degree was in electric engineering, so like my
my plan was always like you know, I wanted to
have something to do in the event that, you know,
it didn't work out. But I when I started the program,
my plan was to do you know, computer engineering. My
father wanted me to be a programmer, and I was like,
whatever I'm doing, I'm not gonna be a programmer. So

(06:22):
I found that I actually liked uh breaking software and
figuring out why it's not working a lot more than
I did actually creating the software. So when I joined
the World World, I started doing uh uh software testing
as a part of my consultancy.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Got it, got it? Yeah, it was a developer.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
Yes, yes, that is correct. So Tanisha, yes you had
a question, but I'm gonna ahead and jump in there, Regie,
give me Reggie coolgi regiid So all of those things
are amazing things right now. And I think the first

(07:09):
time that we spoke, you were in the middle of
getting some grants and expanding your Girls Black Girls Hack
program for UH the certifications and for the trainings. So
can you talk a little bit about why you started
that program and how it's going and how it's developed.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Absolutely. So, when I was trying to transition, you know,
from software testing and QA into UH cybersecurity, I was
having a hard time. And at the time, I had
like a bunch of degrees and a bunch of certifications,
but I was still having hard time. And I said,
you know, I'm having a hard time. And I've got,
you know, twenty years of experience and a whole bunch

(07:50):
of degrees and certifications, and I know that, you know,
the people who are coming behind me, they're going to
also have issues as well. So, you know, when I
started Black Girls Hack, you know, I said, I was
going to provide resources for folks so that they can
find like low cost alternatives to getting training. Because at
the time, like you know, the thing of the day was, hey,
you go and pay tens of thousands of dollars for

(08:11):
a boot camp that may or may not get you
a job, that jobs may or may not respect in
terms of your education or your preparation, only for you
to still not be able to get a job, you know.
So I was like, hey, this is this is a
whole problem. So when I started, you know, and I
was learning and teaching myself how to how to hack,
you know, I was teaching other people as well. I
was like, hey, you know, we're just gonna do this

(08:32):
on live and we're gonna learn together. So I did
that for you know, for years, and then at some point,
you know, we had other instructors who as the organization
grew and we got you know, more volunteers, We've had
other people who've taken over you know, the instruction of
those courses, and I've been able to focus on things like,
you know, getting grants and fundraising to try to get

(08:52):
money for us to be able to do the programs.
So today, you know, we're you know, two thousand plus
members strong. We've got a whole of folks that are
working on various programs. So we've got zero two hero
like eighteen month programs for like Red Team, Blue Team,
Cloud Security, ai GRC, digital forensics. Because you know, cybersecurity

(09:17):
is a very big space and we need to see
more diversity in all areas of the industry, not just
the hacking or the things that I personally think are sexy.

Speaker 4 (09:27):
I know it's always like everybody has different opinions of
what is sexy and cybersecurity, and it has a tendency
to be so frustrating. I know that in your own
podcast AI Thoughts, Life and Subscribe, I know that in
your own podcast on AI Thoughts, you've had a couple

(09:49):
of guests that have really over emphasized the importance of
integrating diversity into artificial intelligence and the development of large
language models. Can you talk a little bit about.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Your thoughts on that.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
Obviously you have a lot of thoughts because you have
so many episodes, But.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
I've got thoughts on everything I tell people in mind
people's business for a living, So i got thoughts. But yeah, Like,
I think that the problems that we're seeing with a
lot of these AI systems have to do with the
fact that there's a lot of bias and discrimination that
is basically baked into the models, the data that they're

(10:28):
trained with, the algorithms that they're built with. You know,
you had a whole bunch of what's essentially like older
white men who basically trained the models and put together
things for them, and what we're finding is that they're having,
you know, issues with simple things like being able to
tell one black woman's face from another. That ERRA rates
for black women for facial mechanistional systems I think are

(10:49):
as high as thirty percent, regardless of who the maker
is of the systems. And you know that's problematic just
because of the fact that you know, if we're talking
about this being used in a criminal justice is for example,
that means that they may not be able to tell
me an epony apart, which means you know, they'll be like, hey,
you're going to jail because we think that she did it,
but you know you'll do.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
So. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
So we need to get we need to get more diversity,
more representation in in all of the aspects, especially when
we're talking about you know, artificial intelligence, because it's going
to be so many downstream applications of these these tools
for so many different things. And you know, I don't
want it to be you know, operating on me, or
for it to be you know, deciding my fate for example,

(11:36):
if you know it has certain thoughts about you know,
me as a black woman. You know, for example, if
you ask some of the systems today like hey, could
you show me what uh a child and the juvenile
justice system or you know, juvenile offendeds look like, you know,
it only draws little black boys. You know, it doesn't
even the systems can't even comprehend the fact that, you know,

(11:59):
the world is in a way that's different than what
they've been trained on. Right, So if everything I give
it is says, you know, black boys are the only
one who commit crimes, then it's going to assume like,
if you're a black boy, then you did it, you know, absolutely,
So there's changes that need to be made, not just
to the algorithms themselves, but I think also to the
data as well. But a lot of money goes into

(12:22):
training these systems, right, so the people who are doing
it are the people who you know, have the money,
they have the data, and you know, realistically it's not
going to impact them. You know, the people who are
going to fight for the issues that are impacting these issues,
especially as they come to you know, bias and discrimination,
are going to be the people who are a victim
of it, which are underrepresented communities. So we need to

(12:44):
start seeing more black people in the space who care
about the issues and that talk about them.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
You know, more people of color in general, right, Like,
one are my concerns because you brought up a very
interesting point about allowing artificial intelligence to direct things, to
manage things, to distribute things, and so historically, from a
medical perspective, is always perceived that black women have a
higher tolerance for pain, right, and inevitably, the belief is that, oh, well,

(13:13):
we can give you less medication because this is historically
what has been true. But historically that's not true. That's
all wrong and right.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
They just chose to give people, you know, less medicine,
and they're using that data to train these systems. So
it's like garbage and garbage out right. Yeah, So if
I have perceptions about something, you know, like if I
feel like everything should be purple and so and I
build an LLM and everything's purple, it's like, you know,
it doesn't matter what color it should be. You know,
I said everything should be purple. So that's what it's

(13:44):
trained in, you know, and that reality is what we're
going to see in a lot of these systems because
you know, we're not actually getting you know, the systems
to be trained. Most people are taking like a copilot
or taking CHASHYPT and then they're building something on top
of it, you know, which means whatever they've done to
train those systems, which we don't have visibility into because

(14:04):
it's not like it's a you know, uh white box system.
You know, you just get whatever the result is. And
I think that, you know, we need to do better
in terms of getting people who are interested in the
topic and researching doing research in the space because you know,
we don't see a lot of black people, you know,

(14:25):
as hackers. We definitely don't see a lot of black.

Speaker 4 (14:28):
People's without I say, we often see them as criminals,
but we don't all see.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, so that's very much so. But I think that
we need to to start to see more more changes
and to do that, we're going to need to get people.
You know, we're gonna need to develop a pipeline for employment,
you know, which means we need to get people who
are in school who haven't yet gotten to their the
point where they have to choose their degrees, or people

(14:55):
who you know, maybe about to go to start doctorates
and they are trying to figure out know what type
of research problems they want to approach. So I think
that the way that we do that is we provide exposure,
let people know that there's things out there, because I
think that there's going to be a future in which everybody,
no matter what sector, what industry you're in, that AI

(15:16):
is going to be a part of your day to
day operations. So you know, at that point we need
to make sure that people are well versed and they
know you know how to not just use these systems,
but you know how to make sure that people are
staying safe.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah. I was going to say that that story that
you brought up, really it was really good. Amands me.
The story of I did like a presentation about Joy
by Luwani Baluwani, the lady who had been at the
basically the facial recognition for uh Snapchat for your for
your facial recognition so whenever you show your face, it

(15:52):
will like show like a cat or whatever. There was
a problem with black faces in that program and what
she did the program it was she put on a
white mask and basically program it that way. But that's
exactly what you're talking about. Little even little things like
that is what is what you think about when we
think about this thing. But I did kind of want
to pivot to something that that I was very very

(16:14):
inspired by you, and it kind of goes along with
the whole Black Girls hack. How you rolled that into
girl Hacked Village and squad Con and how that became
this huge conference and stuff like that. Now, how did
that come about? How did you? I mean, I mean,
that's that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
That a crazy story.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, no, right, it is.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
It's not without a little bit of trauma.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
So like drama, drama, Okay, okay, we went.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
To I was there for the first Girls Hacked village.
That's why the drama interested me. But now I'm be
claude and listen to it.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Okay, Yeah, so we.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Went in twenty twenty two, we went and we had
our first girl Tack village because I went to Hacker
Summer Camp first time for twenty twenty one and I
was like, yeah, we're about to have our own village.
We're about to be in here, Like I see the vision.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
This is what we're about to do. So next year,
true to my word, we had our village. It was
absolutely crazy, Like they put us in like this little
like room and the cut somewhere like it was but
like there were so many people in there. We had
people like sitting on the ground like you know, filling
in all the spaces like there was so you know,

(17:30):
of every gender, color, all of the things, and it
was absolutely amazing. But we got a lot of support,
and Director Easterly actually came by, you know, to our village,
and I think that was the only village that she
went to uh that year when she came to Depcon.
So the next year we applied. We're like, hey, you know,
we're gonna bring back girls girls tack village again. And

(17:52):
Defcon basically said that they didn't see the value of
us coming, that they didn't need a girls hacked village,
that all of the things that we were bringing other
villages already brought in terms of hacking and you know,
ethical hacking and things of that nature. They're like, they
can get all those things in other villages. We don't
need something that specifically for girls. So they did not

(18:14):
invite us back, and they sent us a letter, but
they also sent that to some other folks as well,
and they were like, but you can come and sell
you know, some swag at the vendor space or you
know what I'm saying. It was something like that, and
we're like not chill, like we had been planning to
do this, So we had to basically pivot and you know,
stand up our own you know conference, and I think

(18:34):
it was like maybe two or three months or something
like that, which we did. You know, we raised over
two hundred thousand, you know, because cookies are expensive in
Las Vegas. That I thought we were crazy, but we
raised over two hundred thousand to be able to hold
the conference, and we stood it up and we had
like some amazing keynotes. We had a Camail Stewart, Gloucester

(18:56):
Director Easter Lee was one of our keynotes, and Marcus J.
Carrey and a whole bunch of other people who came
and spoke as as well. So it was absolutely amazing.
We got awesome support from the community. So we were like, hey,
we're going to just run this back again. So we
this year, we we we are bringing it back again
for our second year for squad Con, and we're we're

(19:17):
ready to you know, we're ready to go because we
are We're like, hey, we can do this differently. We
don't have to deal with somebody who doesn't even see
the value and something simple as you know, having a
unique perspective in the space, you know. And of course
an organization is run by mostly like white people, especially
white men. I don't expect them to understand why there
needs to be a space for for women. And they

(19:38):
don't even even have, you know, anything that's for women
in dufcom, which is crazy to me because it's like, hey,
you know, as long if you'r a hacker, isn't matter
if your girl.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
Like what.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
My teddy is strong. I was like, not only are
we holding it, We're gonna hold it on the same days.
That's how.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
You had to find a space in Vegas during the
busiest time for hackers and cyber security in general. It's
blackhat is b side, it's death cont and do all
that in two months, raise money and find people to
come talk to.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah, I'm about to say, squad Con dot me is
our website, So if you go there, there's a link
for the call for promotion proposals. I'llo have a whole
bunch of pages on my LinkedIn, so I tell folks
that have my thigh out at all times, you know,
trying to make sure that we're getting stuff there.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, and don't you have a just tenisia dot com too, right,
I mean that's just yeah. I mean, like I got
my own, like this first name only I was like, okay, well, I.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Mean that's what happens when you're old and the first
of my name. No, I think there was actually there
was one before me, but she wasn't on social media,
so I snatched up most of the Tanisian real estate.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
She wasn't ready, she wasn't right, You're.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Gonna get left behind. So sorry for all of those
other Tanisans.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
So I think you did a really good job of
covering this. But you know, I kind of was gonna
ask you about that, but I think you're kind of
answered it about how you kind of empower women in
the male dominated field, But it sounds like you're just
doing it right.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah. I mean I think that for the most part,
black women have the ability to get things done. You know,
we tend to be like the one of the most
educated groups. You know, we tend to be go getters,
always doing a whole bunch of things that I think
that the biggest thing is that as women, we need
to get out of our own heads. You know, when
you're talking about applying to jobs, you know, for example,

(21:53):
you know, men will look at a job and they'll
be like, hey, you know I fit half of this.
I'm go ahead and apply and I'm gonna look at
those same jobs and they'll be like, well, you know,
I'm only hitting eighty percent of this. I don't think
I know enough to be able to apply for these jobs,
right and the you know, a lot of what I
do is have conversations with people and tell them to
basically start thinking like, you know, mediocre white men. You know,

(22:15):
I need you to go ahead and out here and
start applying for jobs and shoot your shot and take
the opportunity and let them say no. You know, worst
they can do is say no, you know, shoot the shot.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
I always say, if you meet the top two or
three of them, usually that's all people need. Everything else
is kind of like fluff.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
But what do you? What do you? What do you?

Speaker 1 (22:41):
What are your thoughts towards like education versus like certifications
when you're trying to get into the field.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
So I have strong feelings on this, but I have
also got five master's degrees and five yeah, did you
get a doctorate? Dang that I'm working on my doctorate
right now a year, and so I should probably be
done with that in maybe about a year and a
half or so. But my research is on like cybersecurity

(23:10):
at the intersection of education and artificial intelligence, so you know,
how we can use AI systems to better train hackers
of the future.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Did you did you start a just purely for the
research or what was what was the motivation behind starting
a PhD program?

Speaker 3 (23:27):
Part of it is for the research, but then part
of part of it was also like, you know, so
I can get Doc Martin on my tags. I'm only
halfway joking there, halfway joking, and I've already started conditioning

(23:48):
my husband to be like, you know, hey, you have
to call me doctor wife. You know, after I finished
my degree. So you know, he's not with it at all,
He's not.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
He has a little bit of time on board.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
I am. I am extremely persuasive, So like I feel
like by the time I get done, and he'll be
on board and he'll be out here to like, this
is my doctor wife.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
You know, you got to start writing it on the
mirror so it shows up when when he's.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
Taking a shower out.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
He sees this doctor. It'll feel different when they present
you as mister and doctor a.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Doctor and mister.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Somebody in the chance that you should be the more.
We don't condone violence. That is not our position.

Speaker 4 (24:42):
No, no, we don't. But I will definitely tell you
that the inception is going to work. Just start like
leaving post its in the car, like the steam and
the mirror, like just just really subtle.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
So you've done this before.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
I don't think that's important's focus. Okay, let's talk be
so good.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Okay, Yeah, but I don't I don't recommend that for anybody.
So like, I'm probably like the wrong person to ask,
because I feel like if I had it all to
do over again, I would probably, you know, just do
the ones that are important that you know, I need
for my resume because I kept going back to school
because I wasn't getting what I needed in terms of,
you know, educational experience. I wasn't getting hands on activities.

(25:27):
Like my cyber Security Masters was from Johns Hopkins and
they didn't discuss a Cali box. They didn't talk about
you know, they talked about very much so theory and
not so much hands on. And the problem is is
that you know you're going and you're spending in some
cases fifty thousand dollars a year or a degree, and
then you you graduate and you go to apply for

(25:47):
a job and they're like, well, we want you to
have hands on experience. Well, if I needed hands on
experience to get a job, then why isn't it included
in the curriculum. Why isn't it something that's that's taught. Right, So,
you know, we're basically leaving people with the point where
even after they go and get a bachelor's maybe even
if they go and get a master's degree that they're
going to at that point then have to still spend time,

(26:08):
you know, getting hands on skills, developing a portfolio, trying
to figure out things, you know, in order to be
able to get that first job. Because you know, I
think what we'll see as AI starts to proliferate more
into the industry is that the point at which you
know they need you know, hackers and cybersecurity professionals to
operate is going to be increased because all of the

(26:30):
low level things are going to be handled by machine
learning and automated systems. So at some point, you know,
we're going to need to elevate our skills and our
knowledge sets in order for us to be competitive in
the market, right, so you know, and that includes hands
on on skills which are not being taught in schools.
So you know, that's part of the reason why I'm
looking at this just from a research perspective, because you know,

(26:53):
as a training organization, you know, what I care about
is what's the most efficient way for us to teach
people to get into cybersecurity in a way that's not
going to break the bank, and in the most efficient
way that's possible.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Right.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
A lot of companies are falling back on the requirements
for degrees, you know, some of them are even falling
back on requirements for certifications.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Right.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
Some of the certifications out here are tens of thousands
of dollars, you know, and it's like, you want me
to pay ten thousand dollars to get the certification so
that I can get this job. And you know, it's like,
how am I supposed to Yeah, you know, how am
I supposed to pay for this? You want me to
have it when I come in the door, you know
what I'm saying. So so you know, part of what

(27:38):
I do is like when I'm talking to folks about resources,
you know, it's like, hey, how do you get these
ten thousand dollars certifications for free, you know which by
the way, you know, the Sands academies are open right now,
like the diversity academies for women and minorities and things
of that nature, so they'll give them away for free.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
You know.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
I think that those are important because you know, there's
no reason why we have to both in debt in
order to be you know, educated and prepared for a
career in cybersecurity.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Do you have a favorite certification? And I know you
have like a whole you know, catalogo along with your degrees.

Speaker 4 (28:14):
I think Denisan might have made up three certifications last week,
she just didn't release them yet.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Look, I'm actually working on about three of them right
now that I'm working on. But yeah, like I don't
have a favorite one. I think the hardest one for
me thus far was the PMP, which I've never actually
had to use, but I just keep it active because like,
what I'm not about to do is that again that
was the whole problem. But I don't have a favorite, Like,

(28:48):
they're all I don't know, Like, I think the Sands
ones are super unique in terms of like they include
both hands on and multiple choice, so it's like, hey,
not just do you understand what you're doing, but can
you apply it in real world practical situations. But you know,
I don't have a favorite one, and you know, I
just try to make sure that i'm you know, overqualified

(29:09):
and over prepared for whatever the future may hold.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
You know, the really unfortunate thing about that is that
you actively looking to be overqualified, you will walk into
somebody else's place and they'll be like, yeah, actually, I
think I'm gonna pay you seventy six cents on this dollar.
And also I need you to have thirty seven years
of experience. And it's like, bro, look I bet I can,

(29:35):
I bet I can run circles around you.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Like I might be older than the most of you,
but like when I come from, like you know, we
were told that you needed to be twice as good
as everybody else, you know, as a black woman in
this space. So like, you know, all of my siblings
have at least one masters. I think one of them
has like one masters, but all the rest of them
have multiple.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
So it's good to make fun of him the one
that has.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
One day, they'll be like, you, slacker, what are you doing?
And he just actually just got it recently, but all
the rest of us, like, like my my baby sister
has I think like maybe three or four, you know,
I've got five and I'm working on my doctor but
a finger full of handful of masters, right, putting together

(30:24):
a basketball squad?

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Your parents educated in that way.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
My both of my parents have master's degrees. My father's
got several. But he's also very much so and overachiever
in life, so I probably get it from him. He's
the person who introduced the whole concept of taking over
the world to me.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
You know.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
He will literally call me and be like, what are
you doing? And he's not asking me like he doesn't
actually care how I'm doing. He just wants to know
whether I'm still trying to take over the world, because
there's no answer to what are you doing that doesn't
involve trying to take over the world, you know, So
he'll call me sometimes she's checking my what do you doing?
I'm like telling to take over the world. You're like,
all right, cool, just checking.

Speaker 4 (31:02):
I'll let you later and thinkstead I remember taking the brains,
That's that's the vibes.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, are you getting closer to take it over the world?

Speaker 3 (31:17):
You know? Honestly, I've made more progress in the past
five years since I started BGH than I did probably
the twenty years prior to that. But I think the
difference is is that I thought that I could take
over the world by myself and just outsertify, out train,
out to educate all of the people. But what I've
found is that, like, you know, a lot of the
success that I've achieved have been based on, you know,

(31:38):
number one, the people that I've surrounded myself, like having
dope people like are are bored, you know, my colleagues
at BGH. And then the other part is just you know,
having a network of people who support the work that
you're doing. You know, I will have people who will
like come up to me, like randomly a conference is
like oh my gosh, I want to meet you, And
I'm like looking around, like who, and They're like, no,

(32:02):
I wanted to meet you, And I'm like, oh, okay,
Like I'm just here, you know. But I am not
a people person, Like I am not an extrovert. I'm
very much so an introvert. Like I was okay with
being inside for like, you know, several years. I'm alright
with that, Like on a day to day basis. So
but it's just a matter of like, you know, hey,

(32:25):
how can I best achieve that? And it requires other people.
You know, jobs are found without even even you know,
applying for them.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
You know.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
Now I have people who literally will reach out to
me and say, hey, we want you to do this work.
Like I don't know them, but that's how you know,
my LC BGA Security has gotten most of its work,
and you know, I hire the folks from BGH Foundation
to do the work because they'll reach out to me
and say, hey, we trust you, we know you're doing
amazing things. Can you do these things for us?

Speaker 2 (32:57):
So that's what I do.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Was that like, was that kind of the plan to
have that be a feeder for your or your organization
or it just kind of.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
Happened like that, Yeah, it kind of happened because the
problem is is that we're we're training a whole bunch
of people, we're helping them, we have certifications, we're preparing
them for mock interviews and updating their LinkedIn, but we
don't have jobs to basically give them. And you know,
a lot of the jobs that I see, especially the
ones that are quote unquote like entry level are not
actually entry level, right, They're a bit ridiculous, And so

(33:34):
they want you to have experience. And it's like one
of those things like how do I get ID if
I don't have ID? You know, like how am I
supposed to get experience without you know, having experience? And so,
you know, what we do is like I'll get the
contracts and then you know, I'll hire folks on the
squad and I'll be like, hey, do you want to
get this work done? And it's helped them to be

(33:55):
able to, you know, get work experience so they can
then use on their resume to be able to get
you know, other jobs, get their foot in the door.
That that's basically the the the premise behind it. Me personally,
like I don't want to actually run a business, but
you know, somehow I managed to get myself into running
a nonprofit and another business.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
But it is what it is.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
You know, I'm moving towards taking over the world.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
So that's awesome. Are you you in DC right now?

Speaker 2 (34:22):
What were you in Virginia?

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Is it raining in Virginia?

Speaker 2 (34:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
All I can tell you is that the sun is
meant disrespectful on my face right here and it must
be setting because I'm like sitting here trying to move
myself so that I'm not sitting here getting hit in
like I probably should have closed my blinds, But I mean.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
That life is really complimenting you. Just leaning just a
happening right there. It's great.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Oh that's why I feel it was raining, because I
hear that. You hear that.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
Oh no, you're here.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
Yeah, it's okay, Rico still working out the sound effects here.
But Tanisa, this this is a time in our show
where we ask our guest to teach us something in
one minute or less. And you can teach us whatever
you want in any topic. It doesn't have to even

(35:20):
be tech related. You just gotta tell us what you're
gonna teach us. Redd's gonna set the timer and then
you got sixty seconds to teach us.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
Hold on second, Yeah course you could do this, girl.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
Bye. Classes, running businesses, all right?

Speaker 3 (35:39):
We ready? All right, all right, world domination in a
minute or less?

Speaker 2 (35:44):
All right.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
So whatever your end planned is, that's what you need
to figure out. So for me, my plan is to
be the CSO of somebody's fortune company at some point.
So in order to figure out what your plan for
world domination is you have to figure out what your
end goal is and then figure out, like what's the
job before that? Right if you're a CSOPE, maybe before
that you were a VP. Maybe before that you were
like a senior director. Maybe before that you were a director.

(36:07):
So you're basically going to map backwards from where you're
trying to be a career path back to where you're
at now so that you can figure out what are
the next steps that you need to take in order
to get to that next position. So once you do,
you have to figure out, you know, one of the
certifications you need, what are the experience that you need,
and then you know what other you know, surrounding information

(36:28):
that you need in order to move in that direction.
So you know, by doing that, you know you can
figure out where you're going, and then as your plan
evolves over the course of time, you can you know,
adjust it and change it. Just realizing that there's no
one right answer to get.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
To the tip.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Nice that's actually a pretty solid way of directing people
on how to get into the space period.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
I actually teach a class that's called the World Domination
Planning and it basically goes through it we do it
seven I think it's seven weeks, and basically each week
we talk about, you know, how to work on your branding,
how to work on your your career planning, how to
figure out, you know, what's the best way for you
to get the skills that you need to get the
experience and whatever it is that you need to get

(37:18):
yourself to that next position. And then we'll help them
do like mock interviews and you know, update their resume
to apply for those jobs. But you know, that's I
think what a lot of folks are missing when they're
talking about like, hey, I want to get into cybersecurity. Well,
cybersecurity is a big place. That's like, hey I want
to go to New York. Well what part of New York?
Your experience in Brooklyn is going to be much different
than your experience and like Long Island maybe, right, So

(37:42):
you know, like hey, it's not just saying like hey,
I want to go to New York. It's like, well,
what do you specifically want to do once you get
into cybersecurity? And once you figure that out, you know
where your destination is, then you just have to figure
out like it's just spaced an opportunity how do I
get to that point? You know, what skills do I
need to be able to be competitive for these types
of jobs? And you can you know, we talk about

(38:03):
stocking people on LinkedIn to figure out, you know, what
positions they had before, you know, because there's no one right,
one right way to get somewhere. So it's just like,
you know, hey, how did different people do them? And
you know, we have folks reach out and do informationals
and say, you know, hey, tell me about how you
got to where you're at, because you know, for everything
that you might see on paper, there's probably you know,

(38:26):
epic villain story behind it about how they actually you know,
what would they change, you know, how they could have
better gotten to where they're at. You know, given you
know the clarity that is twenty twenty you know, hindsight.
So you know, they can provide you with that information
to help, you know, make your path a little bit
easier to get into where you try to be.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
So honestly, I've looked at your looked your resume, and
I've seen books on just about everything. Just a pivot
to that, right, I don't know if I've seen a
book on on the so stuff like you're taught the
World Domination book, but I've seen the book on penthesting
security stuff like that. So what makes Tenisian sit down

(39:08):
and say, Okay, I have all this knowledge, I want
to write a book, I want to create a LinkedIn
learning lesson. I want to do these things. The kind
of they kind of pass that stuff on.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
So it's more so about branding for me. So you know,
I think that for LinkedIn, it was just basically mutually beneficial, right.
They want to build their their LinkedIn premium platform to
have a wide variety of training for people. And then
you know me, of course, I want to get Black

(39:41):
Girls Hack out there. I want to get my name
out there so that people, you know, know what it
is that I'm doing right, because again, you know, you
can't do these things. You know, you need the visibility,
you need insights. So that's part of the reason what
drives like so many of the things that I do
from creating the LinkedIn courses, Me and a couple of
my colleagues and friends are working on on another book

(40:03):
that's going to be technical on AI and I have
another course that I'm in the process of doing for
LinkedIn on offensive AI in addition to me working on
my doctor research. But at that point, you know, the
disguise unlimit at that point, you know, because then that'll
give me more opportunities to speak about my research, more
opportunities to publish books, things of that nature. Hopefully at

(40:28):
some point I can get to the point where I
can retire and I can just you know, be on
some big boy billionaire status and just leave, you know, BGH.
What do they called, like an endowment or something like that,
and just go off and live on some some foreign
country somewhere on the beach. But you know, until then,
I'm just gonna you know, keep trying to take over
the world and you know, increasing my personal branding, but

(40:50):
then also that of BGH so that people know that
we're out there, because a lot of folks still assume,
because the organization is called Black Girls Hack, that we
only accept black women into the organization. But BJH is
open to everybody. As of right now, I think seventy
five percent of the folks are black women, and that
we have everything else under the rainbow. But you know,

(41:11):
we are still very much so a smaller organization, even
though we've been around for this point like four or
five years, so I.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Think like doctor doctor is important title, but published author
that's another big one too. So congratulations, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
Yeah, we had a best selling author with our book
that we released this past year, so that was super amazing.
So you know, got to make sure that I'm setting
realistic goals for myself to make sure that I'm continuing
to elevate.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So like, you're gonna try
to find yourself on the beach somewhere retired, and then
your daddy gonna call and what you do. Yeah, I'm
actually building an island right now.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
I'm still working on take it over. He's not gonna
he's not gonna be like you know, but that'll be
the ultimate flex for me to be like he like,
what are you doing? I'm like, I'm taking over the
world from retirement, you know what I'm saying? Like are
you at work? Sir? Like that's so poor.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
Like a lot of most of the parents that you
will find that had given you the talk about being
two times better, three times better, being a woman, being black,
like being in technology, Like those are the parents that
never want you to find yourself in their position, right,
And like my my mom, she will she will never

(42:38):
retire like she will just she will never retire like
that is not in her stars idea until she can
retire off one of her children.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
But you know what, that would be considered a win
for me as well. You know what I'm saying, Like,
I am not just trying to elevate myself, but I'm
also elevating my circle and my friends. One of them
get to the point where they've taken over the world
before I do, like, retire me, hire me, I show
your assistant to bring you coffee, and we can just
travel the world.

Speaker 4 (43:08):
Like rich by yourself.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
That's what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying, like
have you really succeeded if you haven't brought your whole
squad with you? And so I'm bringing my whole team
with me. You know, I'm not just taking over the world.
I'm doing big things with them. So you know we're
going to one day one of us is gonna get there.
And just right I'm just saying, statistically, somebody gonna get there,

(43:34):
So I'm in there.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
So Tania, when you're not, when you're not trying to
take over the world, what are you doing do you
have like any like non technical hobbies.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
So I am a gambler. So I like poker and
like craps, all the curnih poker games I'm a fan of.
I read a lot, and I also watch absolute trash TV.
Like I'm talking about like all the first Responder TV,
like Chicago everything, like like, oh see, it's gotta be

(44:11):
a little bit of I need Shonda Rhymes to do
it for real, because you know, it needs to not
just be like the railroading of black men, you know
what I'm saying, Like I needed to be like fanciful
and like like ooh I like this person. Oh yeah,
she's an equal opportunity like killer offer. She'll be like,
oh you like them, doesn't matter, they're dead, like that

(44:35):
level of dramatics. When I recently had surgery in I
think it was February, I literally watched tell novella. There
was like three hundred episodes. It was some Spanish and
I watched I think two hundred and eighty of those
episodes so far. I've got like twenty more to go,
but I'm trying to make my way through it.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Man, what are you trying to that Rhymes She's pretty.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
She's serious, ain't she?

Speaker 4 (45:07):
I mean?

Speaker 1 (45:08):
But one thing is like I pay attention to some
things sometimes and like her writing. I can tell like
sometimes if she you know, wrote it, you know, because like.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Not to get off, not to get off the subject.
But she literally like has I mean her show twenty one,
twenty one, twenty two years for grades Anatomy. I can't
believe that, is that the longest one to show probably
in like besides soap operas and like history is crazy.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
But more more, the main character I think was the
highest paid, you know, I think she's this highest paid
show shining the rhymes and then I forget the lady
the grays of Anatomy Lady she's propa.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
No, she makes about twenty million dollars eight years. It's
yes or episode, I don't even know.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
Yeah, it's it's it's done money. But like you know,
I I love to see me personally, but I'm here
for all of the trashy like you know, the It's
not helping me take over the world, but it helps
me to forget. Like you know, I've never once worried
about my problems while watching the Shuna Rhyme show. Like
it's like I don't have problems. When I'm watching Shinna Rymes,
it's like they got problems.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
Work that out. Let me go over here and finish
up this doctor.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
To worry about stuffing that bleeding sir.

Speaker 4 (46:34):
That's a love tatting go good luck, right, that's so tanisha.
Like between all of your book writing, all of your reading,
all of your telenovela, watching, all of your conference scheduling,
all of your podcasts, guest appearances, all of your actual

(46:54):
podcast recordings, all of your trainings, how do you manage
your schedule? How do you manage your time?

Speaker 3 (47:02):
I have an executive assistant. I like it. Yeah, she
she keeps my my entire life together. And before her
had a different executive assistant and they basically kept my
life together. But they manage my my schedules and there's
probably about six of them between like the school and
work and all the things. So she makes sure that

(47:24):
you know, there's no collisions and that I keep all
of the things being able to get them done. You know,
different times where like she'll like put in like you know, hey,
this is time for you to do nothing. You know,
you know s time. Yeah, because like there'll be I've
got some undiagnosed ADHD, So like there'll be days well
I forget to eat the entire day, or off for

(47:45):
get to drink water or you know, just basic things
like go to the bathroom for example, like have you
been sitting here for six hours and.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Not going to the bath.

Speaker 4 (47:56):
You know.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
So you know, she she makes sure that I can
get all the things done and that that allows me
to be able to operate at the level. But I'm
able to operate at because you know, a lot of
the the coordination with you know, hey, we want you
to come speak at this thing, or we want you
to do this, a lot of this. It's a lot
of scheduling and a lot of back and forth, right,
But my time is better spent, you know, for me

(48:18):
trying to do things like get money, raise funds for
for BGH, or you know, learn something or study to
do my research for my doctorate or whatever. So that's
how I'm able to get And plus I have an
amazing freaking like support system. Yeah, you know, I've got
so many dope people you know who at times have

(48:39):
crossed over like it's like, hey, what can I do
to help you with BGH things? And they'll be like, hey,
you need some help with some BGA security things. Cool,
I got you. You know, hey, you need some help.
You know, I've had you know, friends who will literally
from BGH will come over and like help me do
inventory because I've got like a whole bunch of BGH
merch in my garage and I'm like, it's taking over
all the place in my husband's like I want my care,

(49:00):
you know. So you know, I have an amazing support group.
But you know, which is amazing because, like I said,
five years ago, I had like my four OG friends
from like day one, and there was no nobody else,
you know, And I've since expanded my circle and it's
been amazing because I've had the opportunity to work with
some dope, absolutely amazing human beings that you know, allow

(49:23):
me to be able to do the things that I'm
able to do, and they have faith in what it
is that I'm trying to do and my mission and
my goal with BGH, and they support what it is
that I'm trying to do, So you know, they free
me up to be able to do things like you know,
talk to companies, get the funding, you know, negotiate all
the things that need to be done so that we
can continue to our mission.

Speaker 4 (49:42):
So what I'm hearing from you is, if you want
to go fast, you could go by yourself. But if
you're trying to go far.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
You may That's the whole sermon right there.

Speaker 4 (49:54):
Listen, listen, y'all right people, because.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
I'm telling you I've done so much more in the
past five years since I started, you know, BGH and
started surrounding myself with different people and letting folks in because, like,
you know, I've always believed that humans were trash. You know,
I'm like, I don't want any of these people around me.
You know, I'm saying, like I'm good, like I'll be
all right. Me and my husband on the island were chilling,
you know what I'm saying, We're.

Speaker 4 (50:16):
Good, but I'm like it's good, Like, yeah, I could
keep whatever happening out there. I'm gonna watch this on
TV exactly what.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
That's what I'm saying, you know. And then when the
internet's off, I've still got like I've got enough books
here that probably lasts me the rest of my life
that I haven't even read yet, which is completely problematic.
But neither here nor there, But you know, for me,
it's like, you know, surrounding yourself with amazing people I
think allows me to be able to do amazing things,
and I don't think I would be able to do
it without them.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
I actually struggle with that too, like just trying to
do everything myself. At what point did you realize that
you needed to bring in someone else to support you
that way, I'm gonna.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
Started getting over and it started feeling like, you know, hey,
I'm not able to get anything done. Like I said,
I've got some undiagnosed ADHD. So like I every day,
I have a list. Every day, I have like a
pile of things that I'm supposed to be working on,
and it's like how do I prioritize all of these things?
And when it gets to the point where I'm not
able to actually get anything done, then I know that

(51:19):
I need to, you know, rein in my chaos. But
I think that the biggest thing is learning to trust
other people, because you know, I've always been the person
that says, hey, if you want something done right, you
got to do it yourself right. And I think for me,
the hardest part as I've stepped within my career into
management is actually trusting people to get things done, you know,

(51:40):
because realistically, if I do it myself, then I know
it'll get done. When other people do it, you don't
necessarily know that it'll get done depending on who it
is is doing. Like, I've got some people who are
absolutely solid that I can be like, hey, I need
this done, and I don't have to ask no follow
up questions. I don't have to you know, check in.
They're going to get it done. They're going to send
me a message like, hey, this was done. Don't have
to worry about it no more, you know. And I've

(52:00):
got other folks that it's like, you know, they need
hand holding, they need you know, micromanagement, and that's just
not for me the way that I tend to work,
you know, Like I'm like, hey, I'm gonna let you
go forth and conquer and I just want to give
you the vision, you know, if you need more direction,
and that's cool. So, but part of that involves, you know,
trusting people and figuring out what you can comfortably like

(52:21):
when you're looking at it from a risk perspective, you know,
what you can comfortably off fload to someone else that
you're willing to accept the risk of it doesn't work
out the way that you know you want it to.
And for me, you know, doing that that mental gymnastics
is you know, how I figure out, like, hey, what
can I offload to my executive assistant, what can I
offload to my team? You know, and what do I

(52:43):
need to do you know myself? And it works out
for me. But you know, it required me to actually
start trusting people because you know, like I said, like
I've always felt like people were absolutely trash and it
be better if I just stayed away from them. But
you know, I'm I'm I'm coming around. I'm not gonna
be an introvert, I mean an extrovert anytime soon.

Speaker 4 (53:02):
But you know, extrovert, you just got to be the
leader that you already are.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Yeah, d C.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Last year I was in d C. Actually around this time,
I spent juniorteenth in d C. Is that is that
something you celebrate?

Speaker 3 (53:23):
It is absolutely. We've actually got like a whole bunch
of things that are lined up throughout the course of
the week. We've got an event that we're doing with
Blacks and Technology, actually a couple of events that we're
doing with the local Fredericksburg Chapper, which is near where
I live, and we've got an event that we're doing
with Palo Alto and I think a couple of them

(53:45):
that we're doing for bg H. But you know, our
plan is to basically celebrate and you know, just put
the word out during that time because I feel like
there's a lot of attack on on d I efforts
attack on the work that we're doing indirectly. It's not
like anyone saying, hey, it's a niche of the work
you're doing is trash. It's just people saying like, hey,

(54:05):
we don't think that there needs to be special organizations
that are for black women, you know, like being super
reductive in terms of you know, hey, we're attacking organizations
that we think are discriminating as to everybody else. Yeah,
but when I tell people like, you know, hey, BGH
is open to all, you know, I'm saying, like, we're
our focus is trying to increase diversity for black women,

(54:26):
but the organization that's open to everybody. So it's not
like we're discriminating in any way. You know, everybody's welcome
to come and hack with us. But I think that
the work that we're doing is important because you know,
cybersecurity you've been to the conferences, you know, like it's
it's super homogenous in terms of the folks that you see,
and we're trying to see something different, especially if we're
going to have you know, AI take over the world

(54:47):
at some point. We want to make sure that you know,
it's a world that's equitable and that there's equality.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
And yeah, that's that's funny you said, because uh, a
lot of some people people actually thought that this show
was like only for like black people in tech, but actually,
you know, the way I tell them is like, you know,
we're for everybody, but our focus is in raising the

(55:14):
level of representation in the industry. So yeah, we definitely
you know, seek you know, and we we tailor our
content in the style that most of us, you know,
I'm comfortable with, so you don't have to worry about
code switching and doing that whole thing. I'm not I'm

(55:35):
not a big fan of code switching, but evidence made
me look at and appreciate the other side of it.
We'll brought that conversation to us.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
So, So, Rico, I've got a question for you. I'm
assuming you work for somebody else, right, I do how
do you tell them when they when they got you
fed up, because I'm sure that there's probably at least
one time at least every week where they've got you
fed up. So how do you You can't necessarily go
to them and say that, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (56:08):
I'm just saying, like, you can't say that as long
as there's no other witnesses.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Hello, which which were you talking to?

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (56:19):
So cute?

Speaker 3 (56:24):
Are you geminis? Or like a good one and a
bad one?

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Actually, there's enough. I'm an identical twin with my twins
in the chat.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
That's amazing, are they? Is he in technology?

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Yeah, he's a he's a lead cloud engineer for Cloud one.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
Okay, that's out.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
Yeah he's Okay, I had to I'm sorry, but I mean,
you're right, I can't.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
That's what I'm saying, Like, I can't express how I'm
feeling actually, because the way that I would say something
just coming from Northeast DC probably not will not be
a way that's respectful. That is, you know, I'm saying,
like politically correct, I should say, you know what I'm saying.
So I have to figure out a way to express
my sayself in a way that it's going to be
well received and that they get, you know, not just

(57:19):
the seriousness of like I'm not the one, but then
also like this is how we need to do better.
We need to improve this, and that's required, you know.
And if you think and speak and live in the
same you know, I'm saying vernacular that you work in,
then you know, maybe that's not necessary for the code switch.
But as I mentioned, like I'm from DC, you know,

(57:41):
so like I always say, I'm a quarter hood and
that quarter has been known to get froggy, you know,
So it's it's important for me that I stay employed.
So I can't tell people how I really feel about it.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Yeah, and I think like when I think about code
switch and I'm going to the far end of the spectrum,
I'm like, you know, like Dave Chappelle and personating a
white person, you know, it's a great day.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
So so when when I when I when I talk
at work, I have to kind of like structure myself
a little bit because I'm from the South, I'm from Georgia,
So yeah, we we leave out a lot of sounds
and a lot of words that's weird. So that's that's
the highest degree of codes which and I do, but

(58:27):
I do try to talk the way I talk, you know,
as much as I can so people can get more
comfortable with the way that I present myself. And I've
I've I've gotten direction from people you know, a lot
higher than me that like, look, keep doing because I
I I go and try to, like talk in front
of people because I'm introvert to I don't like talking

(58:48):
in front of people. Don't like it is. It's not
super uncomfortable, but it's just not something I'd rather be doing,
you know. But I'm trying to put myself out there
in a in a in a way that will allow
me to transition as my career progresses. So it's you know,
speaking in front of people, trying to build communities and

(59:11):
doing doing a lot of that kind of work. But
you know, like I said, like I said, you know,
some people have told me like, yeah, keep doing what
you're doing, Keep presenting yourself in that way. People love it.
They love the genuine and the authenticity that you bring
to whatever conversation that you're having and whatever platform you're on.
So but yeah, I definitely appreciate your point in that.

(59:38):
How are we doing on time? Guys? I want to know.
I know you got electrical fire. You gotta get back
to Tonish.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
Has a book review in three certification examples and this
is kind of run showed that starts in like forty minutes.
I'm positive.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Look, I'm high for three station nineteen. So like the
list episode, so I can, yeah, go thirty minutes right there,
I can throw away.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
So anybody that's out there, if you're looking to connect
with any of the organizations that Tanisha's started for the community,
for the betterment of community, not just black people, not
just black women or black girls. It's for anybody, right,
there's a there's a there's a extreme focus, you know,

(01:00:32):
to build representation and help, you know, helping that in
that way. But yeah, well we'll put the links in
the show notes for anyone that's interested in these organizations
or if you're curious as to how to find Tanisha
via her website. That is her first name. But yeah,

(01:00:53):
if you have problem with the spelling, go to the
show notes. And as always, you guys, have any closing thoughts,
Reggie or even you know, Tanisa is your your time.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
So uh, squad con our coffer proposals is open. The
conferences in August and Las Vegas were still looking for speakers. Yes,
so we're still looking for speakers and sponsors. So you know,
if you're looking to do either of those, please feel
free to reach out. Our website is squad Con dot me.

(01:01:27):
And I think that's it for me.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
I think Tanisha's mixtape is dropping next week, so look
out for that. It's got to be your face on
the cover. And then just like the world is floding
behind her, so like, you know, I'm really looking forward
to that drop. We would have to be.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Written because like at my top of the head, game
is is a suspect and I can't be trusted. So
it's like I'm having write it down.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
Definitely definitely check out Tunisha. I'm gonna be checking out.
I'm gonna be buying some of your books and checking out,
you know, some of your writings. That's that's that's dope.
I really enjoy what you're doing. You definitely me suck and.

Speaker 4 (01:02:08):
Now you want enough in my life.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Work circle, I only got to I only got two
plants blacks on my wall. I'm as just turn them.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
Honestly, I don't even put mine up. I think most
of my degrees are in the closet.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Well, well for me, I have a little self esteem,
so it helps. So anyway, I just want to say
I'm gonna do my last closing remark. So as I
was reaching searching you for the show, I was very
impressed with everything that you do and everything that you're
doing in the future. So and talking to you. You're
easy to talk to, your articulate, and I just really

(01:02:52):
really appreciate you going on the show and giving us
that that that that uh, that moment in your time,
because I know your time invaluable.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
So I just kind of want to put that out sir,
thank you for having media show up late. So we
want I want to swag what you want.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
We got some black Men hack shirts.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
I think, yes, yes, yes, yeah, he comes. He can
stop wearing he can stop wearing the same shirt.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
No, don't believe that. They they put me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
That's everything right there, that's the amity right there, that's
the emony.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Right there have three shirts that are the same.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
And thanks for joining the show.

Speaker 4 (01:03:41):
Here doing and we look forward to all of the
amazing the future. We about to sign up a squaw.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Come, yeah, some of your addresses, I'll send you some.
I can do that. That's easy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Awesome, awesome, make sure you do our that. You got
three four heads. I mean, I'm you can't.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
See Hey, look I'm I'm. I'm I'm on the Chucky.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
Club chall like, okay, you know, putting out there.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
But send your address HERI size.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
She got you.