Desmontando el baremo con Mariano Medina se trata de entrevistas de Manuel Castellanos con nuestro asociado de honor, el maestro Medina Crespo, donde dará una visión descriptiva y crítica del actual baremo de valoración de daño corporal en accidentes de circulación para su aprovechamiento en los asuntos profesionales de los abogados especializados en la materia.
Puedes consultar más información en https://anavarc.org/.
Una producción de Loupod (www.loupod.es).
Puedes consultar más información en https://anavarc.org/.
Una producción de Loupod (www.loupod.es).
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You are listening to a lowpodt productionand welcome to disassemble the scale with Mariano
(00:22):
Medinaut a training podcast of anaba RC, National Association of Accident Victims Lawyers and
presented by counsel Manuel Castellanos, aimedat professionals who have to use the assessment
scale of bodily damage of the yeartwo thousand fifteen to determine the compensations to
which the victims of accidents are entitled. I greet two cordials. We start
(00:48):
a new chapter of our podcast.I want to remember that it is the
twenty- four already this experiment thatwe started thinking gives one thing season,
because it has been so successful.In fact, Mariano at conventions and congresses
stop him demanding another new chapter andman does not supply, but well,
Mariano, how are you? Allright, all right, well, and
(01:12):
besides, what you just said istrue, what you just said is true.
Not so true it prepares you becausebesides, Mariano, at first it
was like a technological subject that saida podcast, which is a podcast where
you listen. In fact, thepoor don' t listen to them,
because I' m not able tolet those who access Spotify, the audio
(01:34):
platforms and you don' t listenlisten to everyone except him, that is,
the day you listen the same evenlikes him better. Well, in
the past sessions we talked about theforeseeable expenses, the future healthcare, the
articles one hundred, three hundred andfourteen and in those programs we progressed the
(01:57):
novelty of a sentence handed down onthe 19th of March of the year two
thousand twenty- four, which preciselyone of the inimical concepts is precisely the
predictable expenses of health care. Thegood sentence for her to want to locate,
is the sentence number one hundred andseven Barra two thousand twenty- four
(02:21):
of nineteen March two thousand twenty-four, handed down by the criminal game
number fourteen of mother. Well,since I have the honor of being the
lawyer who defended this procedure. Andit' s relevant because it' s
the sentence where the highest compensation isawarded to an individual victim in a traffic
accident. By all accounts it's almost three million four hundred thousand dollars.
(02:46):
I, for my experience, dollarsforgive euros. I came here this
morning to give a talk in dollarsand I keep talking in dollars. Three
million four hundred thousand euros and theyrelieve not only legally, but also emotionally.
Or it has social relevance for thebenefit of the victims, because the
(03:09):
barriers are the barriers, and thebarrier of the three million had never been
exceeded by my previous knowledge, becausethe maximum disappointment I know is two million
scarce, since this exceeds by along time the three million four hundred zero
euros. Good for this sentence asI say criminal player number fourteen. We
(03:30):
' re going to comment on itif you want, I' m going
to make a little summary of howthe facts were. This is a 28
- year- old girl from Honduraswho worked in an internal home. The
car day in September of the twothousand sixteen went to pick up the employer
(03:53):
' s baby with his cart andI say pick up because the hit was
him. Fortunately, when going topick him up and not coming back from
picking him up because in the runover, in a pedestrian passage, the
driver, the police said he wasgoing about fifty- five minutes an hour,
but the driver did not go atany time, that is, he
(04:15):
went through the pedestrian pass without anyprecautionary measure. He took the poor victim
and also into the cart, whichflew out about 18 meters. If the
baby had been inside the cart,we' d still be reporting a bigger
light or a bigger light damage.Well, this poor girl was left with
severe brewing damage and after many vicissitudes. Well, the trial at the end
(04:41):
was held this year two thousand twenty- four and the sentence was 19 March.
To say, as a lawyer forthe prosecution, that I, in
this case, made the effort todraw provisional conclusions with an exocession of assessment,
(05:02):
rather than making the typical professional conclusionswith the five corresponding chapters, the
facts, possibilities, sentence and convictionand civil liability. For I made an
effort in terms of the civil response, I did not say an initial sum,
(05:24):
but in quite a few leaflets.By the way, because I explained
to him every concept of inizatory,every point of the norm, every point
of the table, so that hewould not have to listen to me in
the conclusions of the trial, whichwas quite long, obviously, and could
(05:47):
be based on that this rating.Well, the player as in criterion,
in my opinion, what she doesprecisely is to break down, to degranate
every concept of the inescapable in aparagraphgarte and to go on horseback with what
we talked about in the previous chapters. Well, in a little paragraph.
Well to this also another paragraph,this is a sinister of the year two
(06:10):
thousand sixteen. Therefore, it isone of the first accidents after the new
scale of the year two thousand andfifteen, that its entry into force was
in January of two thousand and sixteen. Well, since it was a very
new scale, there' s stillno interpretation. There was no judicial interpretation.
I qualified in the year two thousandeighteen and there was no case law
(06:30):
about it, because I understood thatI had to claim future health expenses in
favor of the social toilet, evenif it is not for my injured directly,
I in these cases. I thinkan excess of responsibility. I understood
that if you still don' tclaim this concept, you might have a
(06:56):
problem in the future that you didn' t pay and that when my client
went to public health to be assisted, tell me that you don' t
have coverage because I didn' tmake the claim. So, I made
it. What I said in thatconcept was that the corresponding provision was called
for in favour of public health accordingto the corresponding table of the scale and
(07:17):
the healthcare agreements. What he didn' t do was quantify it. All
right, well, the paragraph thatspeaks of the indiciatories is a little parrafito
that the judge says expenses but andthey are given future health care of the
article one hundred and thirteen that areclaimed by the particular accusation without quantifying the
same ones and that the secure entitydetermines attention to the existing agreement between areas
(07:44):
and the social sion are numbered threehundred and fourteen thousand seven hundred and seventy
- six. For what tenna hassaid agreement, that amount is estimated at
that amount. It is true thatit is a little complicated, because they
put it in the bases of lawwith the edition that corresponds to the victim,
but it clarifies it in the judgmentwhen the amount that corresponds to the
(08:07):
injured one is nidia nidida clearly,another amount that is given to the employer
that if we have time to expandthe knowledge of this sentence, because I
will comment it because it is asubject within the tragedy. It is a
beautiful issue in this sentence and thosethree hundred and fourteen thousand seven hundred and
seventy- six with fifty- eightthat the insured Alians has to pay to
(08:35):
the social sense that does put withthe legal interests, that is, that
it condemns the company of euros topay that amount to the social ace with
the legal interest. Okay, becausewe understand, we want, and I
think I suspect it hasn' tbeen paid. Therefore, those comments that
the previous chapter Mariano began to make, as we can conclude it today in
(08:58):
that suspicion. If you want,he commented on the human content. This
sentence, of course, is notfinal and is appealed at the provincial hearing.
Well, obviously, I am notgoing to say the insurance company or
the parts of the procedure, butit is true that one of the grounds
(09:20):
for appeal to my mind, surprisingground for appeal is the discussion of those
foreseeable future expenses, because I haveto say that in the procedure, neither
at the pre- trial stage norat the plenary, the insurance company credited
the cash payment of that amount tothe public treasury. He is not accredited
(09:43):
in the appeal. To my mind, and with all due respect, because
I insist there is your yuris.It is pending the decision or judgment of
the High Authority on these facts,but it is true that it is one
of my grounds for challenge. Whathe did was, of course, extemporaneous
and appropriate. It is in orderto justify this reason for contesting these expenses
(10:09):
that the social partners must pay.What he did was to accompany a photocopy
of the Agreement on Health Assistance toPublic Services. First, such evidence should
have been provided at another procedural time, not on appeal. And, second,
that easier to credit on the provinciallist the cash payment than the transfer
(10:31):
order, which has not done nordid it in the pre- trial phase,
nor did it do the phase ofthe first. Nor has it done
so in the appeal. Therefore,it is not surprising that this is discussed
and what makes us suspect and thatit becomes notorious is that surely what talks
about articles one hundred and thirteen andone hundred and fourteen, because it is
(10:56):
not being fulfilled by the Salvador sector. They' re not paying and we
don' t know how they're paying. There' s no control,
we don' t know if he' s paying with a real valuation
of the injured major' s caseis social. In this case, the
health councils of the respective autonomous communities. I very much doubt they' ll
(11:16):
follow up on the actual condition ofthe injured. And well, this sentence
is one of the first sentences thatputs blacks on the target the obligation to
pay an amount of cash and it' s in the judgment. It is
therefore executable and now, of course, I await your comments from Mariano on
this. Well, I read thesentence and I read it and what I
(11:41):
have to say is that it touchesso many different points that they would give
as a kind of mine for successivesessions, because there are so many very
interesting points that are addressed here.We' re going to focus just to
link it to the day before,on the subject of future medical expenses.
(12:07):
A few preliminary considerations. When thereis a criminal procedure in Spain due to
an accident of circulation the courts.No court is interested in whether or not
medical expenses have been met by asocial entity. He' s not interested.
(12:28):
That' s why. Usually workmutuals. Not to mention the public
health services are not people in theproceedings who would be staffed as civil actors,
not as private accusers, but ascivil actors, because they are not
offered the procedure. They' renot offered. The only one who appears
(12:52):
in the proceedings is the victim.When it comes to injuries, the victim
has the right to compensation for damagesand, of course, if he has
been treated during his temporary injuries bya mutual or public health service, he
(13:13):
should not charge such expenses because,among other things, he has no invoice
and does not claim it. Itis very rare, very strange that someone
might claim future medical expenses, moremedical expenses that does not satisfy because it
has no legitimacy would have had itif it had paid good. This is
the general approach. We are thereforefaced with the procedure which has been followed
(13:37):
by manuel before a criminal proceeding inwhich the procedure for social security, which
is an inaccurate expression of the sentence, is not safe because social security has
no legal personality. Either the procedureis offered to the public health service in
the area or where it will betreated injured, or the mutuality of accidents
(14:01):
at work, which in this casewas an accident at work, is grown.
It was a work accident. Butpublic service is health. According to
article one hundred and fourteen, hehas the right to be compensated. But
it is not that he has theright to be resentful, because the law
does not mention that he has theright to compensation for the public health service.
(14:24):
What the law says is that theinsurer has a duty to pay for
it, which is the same.But it' s not the same.
It' s not the same.It is not the same, because the
idea of the law is that thisthing that is assessed and regulated, does
not give rise to judicial controversy,but that companies are given a legal mandate
(14:46):
to carry out extrajudicially and immediately thatthey can and can pay the payments provided
by the law that are assessed.Well, we find that the prosecution'
s counsel, particularly in this case, Manuel is not going to claim future
(15:07):
medical expenses for his client because hisclient is not assuming gas, he is
not going to assume expense in thefuture possibly and he or she had not
spoken to him or his family orshe had had to make payments related to
his injuries that would fit into theconcept of medical expenses present by shutting off
(15:31):
help. Third person is paying apartfrom those concentrates. I mean medical expenses.
That is, for example, sheis widespread, but maybe, if
she has headaches, her mother buysone from herself and there is always spending
those little expenses. Follow each otherand it is being checked by the medical
service of St public speaking still beingattended by this public uncle. It'
(15:52):
s clear, it' s bywax doctor and it' s being seen
by neurologists, by ephoniatras. Ofcourse, of course, she' s
not going to have any medical expensesfor the future. And that justifies that
in this case the particular accusation didnot make a specific claim for future medical
(16:12):
expenses to be assumed by the addition, which would be consistent with what I
have said in the previous days.Not because you will not see them,
but you perform an act of responsibilityand sensitivity the lawyer when it comes to
saying that the insurer has the obligationto pay the expenses of future doctors to
(16:36):
the public service, which is theone that is appropriate, nor has to
get into the amount, but simplytell the judge what it is that comes
to tell you look at you,Your Honor, I claim for my client
all this. But in addition tothis, there is this item that,
according to the law, because itis going to see future medical expenditure,
because it is also said by thelaw and it is known that they are
(16:56):
and are quantified by the law,there will be expenses that it will assume
as it is assuming, it willcontinue to assume the public health service or
the Rural Authority, whatever. Andthat is what is striking and outstanding,
because the judge, with exquisite criteria, in my concept, attends to that
game and attends it with consistency.It has it coherently by compensating these future
(17:22):
medical expenses, that is, byreturning future medical expenses to social security in
the inaccurate expression, because it shouldhave said or public health service, to
be seen or seen would have clarifiedwho is taking care of the vision,
because if it has been a mutuality, I think it would be the public
(17:45):
service, that is health, thatwould be from the Community of Madrid,
that that will be clarified ah andnothing happens and has no problem, because
in execution of sentence it clarifies whois the recipient of that amount. I
put in this scroll that gave meto read Manuel the appeal of the insurer.
(18:06):
And the first thing that draws attentionis that, on a first ground
of challenge, he denounces the inconsistencyof the sentence because compensation is granted to
the social security that she, asthe only legitimate, has not claimed,
(18:26):
that is to say, comes todisavow it to ask that the indication made
by the particular accusation that future medicalacts should be compensated to the social security.
The victim is not the one toask someone else to be paid one
thing that, in pure principle,is true. Which, in pure principle
is true. But what is alsotrue is that, according to the text
(18:49):
of the law, the insurer hasto pay it and what an insurer has
to do before that indication of thelawyer of the particular accusation, that is,
I have not avenged myself to whomI count to pay three hundred zero
euros or whatever amount it is,and has paid it, because I have
paid you, that I have alreadyfulfilled, that I have paid, because
in the two thousand eighteen, thatis when it stabilized, then, naturally,
(19:10):
from the moment it is Biliza.It is known what injuries he has,
his grades are known, He isknown to be in a section that
will possibly be the b of theone hundred and thirteen three. Of course
and normally he would have accompanied toavoid a conviction that would not have to
give any place, to accompany theenclosure the one that has paid him to
the service polio. I greet orwhoever the money is and that' s
(19:33):
it and that would have disappeared.It' s just that it' s
broken down in the indictment brief.Therefore, if the lawyer of the company
of seros reads my indictment and oneof the points is the one hundred and
thirteen in the act of plenary andsays look and demand this that is off
and I modify the definitive ones,modify them and remove them to concept as
(19:53):
it is off. It' snot like that anymore. So what do
I get from this and I guessit' ll be a correct induction that
hasn' t paid for it.The insurance company that didn' t pay
them. But the funny thing isthat, once it raises the lack of
choosing the lack of incongruity to grantsomething that it has asked, who cannot
(20:19):
ask, which is the approach ofthe resource. Then, in a second
motive, what he does is me. The truth is that I read it
very quickly and I didn' tget it very well either. But what
I understood fundamentally is you can't condemn me where the court can condemn
me for these expenses when I haveto pay them directly to the polio sergio
(20:41):
that health. But you think hepaid for them. You have clearly paid
them, because if you have createddiet you have paid them, it disappears
even on appeal. You accompany meto the receipt where they were paid and
I paid that amount, because itis a roasted amount. I paid them
and it' s already unpredicted andneither does UAs for the execution of sentence
(21:02):
prove it. And the insurance companybecause it starts by saying that the inconsistency
of the lack of fencing and thatbut then ends the last paragraph by saying
but we admit that we have topay for this. But it also recognizes
the amount. No. No,of course because I could also discuss the
amount. Not the one about notarguing with her. He didn' t
(21:22):
discuss it. Not even the trial. No. No. No. No,
no, he doesn' t discussit in the appeal. So what
is the conclusion that one can witha certain boldness come to is that what
the company intends to do is todisappear that sentence in order not to fulfill
the payment that it is seeing law, not to lift it, not to
(21:47):
pay it anymore. But I thinkit' s very risky, because if
you don' t pay, butI think it' s very risky to
get into that bde in general it' s okay, because it would be
very possible. Keep in mind thatso far the public health service or motorcycling,
who is not there I have alreadymade the payments do not know any
of this because it does not knowthe procedure. And I' ll tell
(22:07):
you one thing. I dare say. Let' s see the experience shows
me that never labor mutualities can everbe very strong. But I haven'
t seen him staff who don't claim future medical expenses. All the
complaints he sends criminal when he hasbeen a civilian perpetrator have always been made
(22:29):
by providing the invoices for the assistanceprovided. I, who am already an
old man, have not seen complaintsof future medical expenses by social entities.
They' ve never been paid,they didn' t claim them. In
my opinion, this law is madenot to pay. What he' s
going to do is lift the hareand make them see that they can and
(22:53):
can claim. It should be bornein mind that by reading the social security
legislation as conceived, the refusal ofthe right of reimbursement is reimbursement of what
has been paid and of the labourmutual societies that have continued to provide future
assistance to a tetraplegic have not beenbored that, once Spain is discharged,
(23:15):
that this could be claimed. Ihave not seen complaints in the light of
the law, they have to beawakened the hare that this is reclaimable,
because the law recognizes the concept asrecoverable. Then to me the feeling that
gives me with all respect, withall the consideration for any company and so
on. I have the feeling thatthe reason for the appeal is to get
(23:41):
that sentence to go away with thepossibility of not paying for any alcohol,
because it might be that the publicservice sabrison is not aware that this can
claim it. I' m convertedbecause he keeps track. Nor because the
law that called a mutual labour,a work mute, is as soon as
(24:03):
it reaches an accident or has anaccident at work, knows perfectly well that
the victim is a traffic victim.Therefore, in my newtob one can personate
in any proceedings or claim the victimif he/ she has a lawyer to
pass the data on to the lawyerto personate himself/ herself as a harmer.
No. Many workers have addressed mebecause they have a claimable expense,
(24:26):
expenses paid by loving data foot thedata of percent for people, but on
expenses already paid, on bill,but not on future spending. That'
s the point. The point forme is that what is novel is the
one that is explicitly recognized with allthe editorial and trickle effects. The right
(24:48):
to reimbursement of public health services isexplicitly recognized, let us say in a
broad sense, and, by extension, even if it does not say so
to the many working conditions, tothe mutuality of accidents at work, to
charge future medical expenses ahead of time, which seems to me to be an
anomaly. It seems to me likean anomaly because in the background, they
(25:14):
should be paid for expenses incurred forannual periods or whatever, because it is
not serious that they give three hundredseventy zero euros to a public health service
for the assistance they are going toprovide to Manuel' s client and that,
for any circumstance, the client Manueldies soon for cause alien to the
(25:36):
accident, for example, and thatthree hundred zero euros have been bolused for
services that he will not provide.Me. For me, the issue of
the future is that they must becompensated, but they should be compensated for
payments made and for procedures and executionof judgment by liquidation I say, in
(25:56):
fact, in the challenge that Iam making and that manifests all this that
we are talking about. Yes,which I make clear to the pitch game
that well, obviously it has shownus the payment and that I am curious
and that from that moment I announcethat I will follow up in execution of
sentence of the cash payment of thatamount. But of course it seems to
me that if in the end itis an amount that they will pay or
(26:18):
that they have paid or that theyplan to pay, what I find a
little striking in quotation marks, recklessis to open that can, that is,
I think to get into an eggplantthat if in the end the headquarters,
that are slow public administration in general. But when they get into one
thing, they really get into it, that is to say, that above
(26:41):
all with a sanitary extension, thatthe first complaint that the administration has all
the public administrations, and the firstcry that they have is the lack of
means and the lack of budget,for of these there are about two hundred
per year, for in each community, each to three hundred thousand four hundred
(27:03):
thousand euros each, since one canmaintain a solute sketch with all that amount
and they do not make it good, because I think it is fair.
But that, as a conclusion ofthat, everything has been talked about.
I highlight the success of Manuel Inhaving made this anomalous claim for someone else
' s account, because if hehadn' t done so, the sentence
(27:26):
would not have been pronounced on thatmatter and because of the suspicion that,
if, after so many years,the insurer hadn' t paid, as
we believe, or it seems thatI can believe that he hadn' t
paid that amount. Now you've bothered him. We suspect, It
may be suspected that if that indicationhad not been made in the letter of
(27:51):
Manuel' s final conclusions and thesentence, he would not have taken that
indemnity. It is quite possible thatthe insurer would have been spared the payment
of these three hundred zero euros whichare public resources, public resources that serve
(28:11):
to attend to many things and thatand that if thanks to this they will
be paid, they will really bepaid. But the truth is that,
after so many years of not havingpaid, if you didn' t say
anything to the sentence, I thinkit would have been a saving. And
(28:34):
that' s the real purpose ofa hundred gibberishes. He was gallimating the
lack of control you said the otherday. It seems to me that there
is a lack of control, alack of control and the creation of things.
But how that is controlled is notpossible, because you said it was
(28:55):
already done well, which is alimiting capsule perfectly transferred to a Varemos set
to do the things that the legislatorwould have said. In these cases the
procedure will be offered to the publichealth service that has provided services. We
moved two definitions of clausortives that areconsidered abusive. Therefore, they are null,
(29:15):
but anyway, well, we saidthat in this we will give one
for a little bit and we haveconsumed entire chapter only one thing. I
said that the sentence you would givefor a lot of decisions but the other
points worthy of comment are so delicateon a subject that is subviu says that
(29:37):
I particularly think I prefer to commenton it, because, as well as
the issue of medical expenses, itis unequivocal with what has been held here
in the other matters or are morediscussed. That is why I have confined
this chapter precisely to this particular conceptthat you can imagine in the sentence,
(29:57):
since much more CONs are granted ofthese initiations that we are going to comment
on when the sentence of the ProvincialHigh Court of Madrid comes out to see
how we are left in all this. Well, thank you very much.
As always Mariano I place you foranother chapter, because this is to give
for much and nothing. Thank youagain for your presence and excellent knowledge.
(30:19):
Thank you. More and more brandsare betting on podcast as a communication tool.
But what advantages it has with apodcast. You talk to your client
(30:41):
in the ear, establishing a moredirect, close and emotional connection, a
space of dialogue that creates community,also increases the memory of your brand and
your credibility. The wolf we wantto help you. We are a producer
that drives your communication through the word. For more information, visit our lowpo
(31:04):
website. It' s or writeus to contact arroba it' s for
the podcast bet for crazy
You are listening to a lowpodt productionand welcome to disassemble the scale with Mariano
(00:22):
Medinaut a training podcast of anaba RC, National Association of Accident Victims Lawyers and
presented by counsel Manuel Castellanos, aimedat professionals who have to use the assessment
scale of bodily damage of the yeartwo thousand fifteen to determine the compensations to
which the victims of accidents are entitled. I greet two cordials. We start
(00:48):
a new chapter of our podcast.I want to remember that it is the
twenty- four already this experiment thatwe started thinking gives one thing season,
because it has been so successful.In fact, Mariano at conventions and congresses
stop him demanding another new chapter andman does not supply, but well,
Mariano, how are you? Allright, all right, well, and
(01:12):
besides, what you just said istrue, what you just said is true.
Not so true it prepares you becausebesides, Mariano, at first it
was like a technological subject that saida podcast, which is a podcast where
you listen. In fact, thepoor don' t listen to them,
because I' m not able tolet those who access Spotify, the audio
(01:34):
platforms and you don' t listenlisten to everyone except him, that is,
the day you listen the same evenlikes him better. Well, in
the past sessions we talked about theforeseeable expenses, the future healthcare, the
articles one hundred, three hundred andfourteen and in those programs we progressed the
(01:57):
novelty of a sentence handed down onthe 19th of March of the year two
thousand twenty- four, which preciselyone of the inimical concepts is precisely the
predictable expenses of health care. Thegood sentence for her to want to locate,
is the sentence number one hundred andseven Barra two thousand twenty- four
(02:21):
of nineteen March two thousand twenty-four, handed down by the criminal game
number fourteen of mother. Well,since I have the honor of being the
lawyer who defended this procedure. Andit' s relevant because it' s
the sentence where the highest compensation isawarded to an individual victim in a traffic
accident. By all accounts it's almost three million four hundred thousand dollars.
(02:46):
I, for my experience, dollarsforgive euros. I came here this
morning to give a talk in dollarsand I keep talking in dollars. Three
million four hundred thousand euros and theyrelieve not only legally, but also emotionally.
Or it has social relevance for thebenefit of the victims, because the
(03:09):
barriers are the barriers, and thebarrier of the three million had never been
exceeded by my previous knowledge, becausethe maximum disappointment I know is two million
scarce, since this exceeds by along time the three million four hundred zero
euros. Good for this sentence asI say criminal player number fourteen. We
(03:30):
' re going to comment on itif you want, I' m going
to make a little summary of howthe facts were. This is a 28
- year- old girl from Honduraswho worked in an internal home. The
car day in September of the twothousand sixteen went to pick up the employer
(03:53):
' s baby with his cart andI say pick up because the hit was
him. Fortunately, when going topick him up and not coming back from
picking him up because in the runover, in a pedestrian passage, the
driver, the police said he wasgoing about fifty- five minutes an hour,
but the driver did not go atany time, that is, he
(04:15):
went through the pedestrian pass without anyprecautionary measure. He took the poor victim
and also into the cart, whichflew out about 18 meters. If the
baby had been inside the cart,we' d still be reporting a bigger
light or a bigger light damage.Well, this poor girl was left with
severe brewing damage and after many vicissitudes. Well, the trial at the end
(04:41):
was held this year two thousand twenty- four and the sentence was 19 March.
To say, as a lawyer forthe prosecution, that I, in
this case, made the effort todraw provisional conclusions with an exocession of assessment,
(05:02):
rather than making the typical professional conclusionswith the five corresponding chapters, the
facts, possibilities, sentence and convictionand civil liability. For I made an
effort in terms of the civil response, I did not say an initial sum,
(05:24):
but in quite a few leaflets.By the way, because I explained
to him every concept of inizatory,every point of the norm, every point
of the table, so that hewould not have to listen to me in
the conclusions of the trial, whichwas quite long, obviously, and could
(05:47):
be based on that this rating.Well, the player as in criterion,
in my opinion, what she doesprecisely is to break down, to degranate
every concept of the inescapable in aparagraphgarte and to go on horseback with what
we talked about in the previous chapters. Well, in a little paragraph.
Well to this also another paragraph,this is a sinister of the year two
(06:10):
thousand sixteen. Therefore, it isone of the first accidents after the new
scale of the year two thousand andfifteen, that its entry into force was
in January of two thousand and sixteen. Well, since it was a very
new scale, there' s stillno interpretation. There was no judicial interpretation.
I qualified in the year two thousandeighteen and there was no case law
(06:30):
about it, because I understood thatI had to claim future health expenses in
favor of the social toilet, evenif it is not for my injured directly,
I in these cases. I thinkan excess of responsibility. I understood
that if you still don' tclaim this concept, you might have a
(06:56):
problem in the future that you didn' t pay and that when my client
went to public health to be assisted, tell me that you don' t
have coverage because I didn' tmake the claim. So, I made
it. What I said in thatconcept was that the corresponding provision was called
for in favour of public health accordingto the corresponding table of the scale and
(07:17):
the healthcare agreements. What he didn' t do was quantify it. All
right, well, the paragraph thatspeaks of the indiciatories is a little parrafito
that the judge says expenses but andthey are given future health care of the
article one hundred and thirteen that areclaimed by the particular accusation without quantifying the
same ones and that the secure entitydetermines attention to the existing agreement between areas
(07:44):
and the social sion are numbered threehundred and fourteen thousand seven hundred and seventy
- six. For what tenna hassaid agreement, that amount is estimated at
that amount. It is true thatit is a little complicated, because they
put it in the bases of lawwith the edition that corresponds to the victim,
but it clarifies it in the judgmentwhen the amount that corresponds to the
(08:07):
injured one is nidia nidida clearly,another amount that is given to the employer
that if we have time to expandthe knowledge of this sentence, because I
will comment it because it is asubject within the tragedy. It is a
beautiful issue in this sentence and thosethree hundred and fourteen thousand seven hundred and
seventy- six with fifty- eightthat the insured Alians has to pay to
(08:35):
the social sense that does put withthe legal interests, that is, that
it condemns the company of euros topay that amount to the social ace with
the legal interest. Okay, becausewe understand, we want, and I
think I suspect it hasn' tbeen paid. Therefore, those comments that
the previous chapter Mariano began to make, as we can conclude it today in
(08:58):
that suspicion. If you want,he commented on the human content. This
sentence, of course, is notfinal and is appealed at the provincial hearing.
Well, obviously, I am notgoing to say the insurance company or
the parts of the procedure, butit is true that one of the grounds
(09:20):
for appeal to my mind, surprisingground for appeal is the discussion of those
foreseeable future expenses, because I haveto say that in the procedure, neither
at the pre- trial stage norat the plenary, the insurance company credited
the cash payment of that amount tothe public treasury. He is not accredited
(09:43):
in the appeal. To my mind, and with all due respect, because
I insist there is your yuris.It is pending the decision or judgment of
the High Authority on these facts,but it is true that it is one
of my grounds for challenge. Whathe did was, of course, extemporaneous
and appropriate. It is in orderto justify this reason for contesting these expenses
(10:09):
that the social partners must pay.What he did was to accompany a photocopy
of the Agreement on Health Assistance toPublic Services. First, such evidence should
have been provided at another procedural time, not on appeal. And, second,
that easier to credit on the provinciallist the cash payment than the transfer
(10:31):
order, which has not done nordid it in the pre- trial phase,
nor did it do the phase ofthe first. Nor has it done
so in the appeal. Therefore,it is not surprising that this is discussed
and what makes us suspect and thatit becomes notorious is that surely what talks
about articles one hundred and thirteen andone hundred and fourteen, because it is
(10:56):
not being fulfilled by the Salvador sector. They' re not paying and we
don' t know how they're paying. There' s no control,
we don' t know if he' s paying with a real valuation
of the injured major' s caseis social. In this case, the
health councils of the respective autonomous communities. I very much doubt they' ll
(11:16):
follow up on the actual condition ofthe injured. And well, this sentence
is one of the first sentences thatputs blacks on the target the obligation to
pay an amount of cash and it' s in the judgment. It is
therefore executable and now, of course, I await your comments from Mariano on
this. Well, I read thesentence and I read it and what I
(11:41):
have to say is that it touchesso many different points that they would give
as a kind of mine for successivesessions, because there are so many very
interesting points that are addressed here.We' re going to focus just to
link it to the day before,on the subject of future medical expenses.
(12:07):
A few preliminary considerations. When thereis a criminal procedure in Spain due to
an accident of circulation the courts.No court is interested in whether or not
medical expenses have been met by asocial entity. He' s not interested.
(12:28):
That' s why. Usually workmutuals. Not to mention the public
health services are not people in theproceedings who would be staffed as civil actors,
not as private accusers, but ascivil actors, because they are not
offered the procedure. They' renot offered. The only one who appears
(12:52):
in the proceedings is the victim.When it comes to injuries, the victim
has the right to compensation for damagesand, of course, if he has
been treated during his temporary injuries bya mutual or public health service, he
(13:13):
should not charge such expenses because,among other things, he has no invoice
and does not claim it. Itis very rare, very strange that someone
might claim future medical expenses, moremedical expenses that does not satisfy because it
has no legitimacy would have had itif it had paid good. This is
the general approach. We are thereforefaced with the procedure which has been followed
(13:37):
by manuel before a criminal proceeding inwhich the procedure for social security, which
is an inaccurate expression of the sentence, is not safe because social security has
no legal personality. Either the procedureis offered to the public health service in
the area or where it will betreated injured, or the mutuality of accidents
(14:01):
at work, which in this casewas an accident at work, is grown.
It was a work accident. Butpublic service is health. According to
article one hundred and fourteen, hehas the right to be compensated. But
it is not that he has theright to be resentful, because the law
does not mention that he has theright to compensation for the public health service.
(14:24):
What the law says is that theinsurer has a duty to pay for
it, which is the same.But it' s not the same.
It' s not the same.It is not the same, because the
idea of the law is that thisthing that is assessed and regulated, does
not give rise to judicial controversy,but that companies are given a legal mandate
(14:46):
to carry out extrajudicially and immediately thatthey can and can pay the payments provided
by the law that are assessed.Well, we find that the prosecution'
s counsel, particularly in this case, Manuel is not going to claim future
(15:07):
medical expenses for his client because hisclient is not assuming gas, he is
not going to assume expense in thefuture possibly and he or she had not
spoken to him or his family orshe had had to make payments related to
his injuries that would fit into theconcept of medical expenses present by shutting off
(15:31):
help. Third person is paying apartfrom those concentrates. I mean medical expenses.
That is, for example, sheis widespread, but maybe, if
she has headaches, her mother buysone from herself and there is always spending
those little expenses. Follow each otherand it is being checked by the medical
service of St public speaking still beingattended by this public uncle. It'
(15:52):
s clear, it' s bywax doctor and it' s being seen
by neurologists, by ephoniatras. Ofcourse, of course, she' s
not going to have any medical expensesfor the future. And that justifies that
in this case the particular accusation didnot make a specific claim for future medical
(16:12):
expenses to be assumed by the addition, which would be consistent with what I
have said in the previous days.Not because you will not see them,
but you perform an act of responsibilityand sensitivity the lawyer when it comes to
saying that the insurer has the obligationto pay the expenses of future doctors to
(16:36):
the public service, which is theone that is appropriate, nor has to
get into the amount, but simplytell the judge what it is that comes
to tell you look at you,Your Honor, I claim for my client
all this. But in addition tothis, there is this item that,
according to the law, because itis going to see future medical expenditure,
because it is also said by thelaw and it is known that they are
(16:56):
and are quantified by the law,there will be expenses that it will assume
as it is assuming, it willcontinue to assume the public health service or
the Rural Authority, whatever. Andthat is what is striking and outstanding,
because the judge, with exquisite criteria, in my concept, attends to that
game and attends it with consistency.It has it coherently by compensating these future
(17:22):
medical expenses, that is, byreturning future medical expenses to social security in
the inaccurate expression, because it shouldhave said or public health service, to
be seen or seen would have clarifiedwho is taking care of the vision,
because if it has been a mutuality, I think it would be the public
(17:45):
service, that is health, thatwould be from the Community of Madrid,
that that will be clarified ah andnothing happens and has no problem, because
in execution of sentence it clarifies whois the recipient of that amount. I
put in this scroll that gave meto read Manuel the appeal of the insurer.
(18:06):
And the first thing that draws attentionis that, on a first ground
of challenge, he denounces the inconsistencyof the sentence because compensation is granted to
the social security that she, asthe only legitimate, has not claimed,
(18:26):
that is to say, comes todisavow it to ask that the indication made
by the particular accusation that future medicalacts should be compensated to the social security.
The victim is not the one toask someone else to be paid one
thing that, in pure principle,is true. Which, in pure principle
is true. But what is alsotrue is that, according to the text
(18:49):
of the law, the insurer hasto pay it and what an insurer has
to do before that indication of thelawyer of the particular accusation, that is,
I have not avenged myself to whomI count to pay three hundred zero
euros or whatever amount it is,and has paid it, because I have
paid you, that I have alreadyfulfilled, that I have paid, because
in the two thousand eighteen, thatis when it stabilized, then, naturally,
(19:10):
from the moment it is Biliza.It is known what injuries he has,
his grades are known, He isknown to be in a section that
will possibly be the b of theone hundred and thirteen three. Of course
and normally he would have accompanied toavoid a conviction that would not have to
give any place, to accompany theenclosure the one that has paid him to
the service polio. I greet orwhoever the money is and that' s
(19:33):
it and that would have disappeared.It' s just that it' s
broken down in the indictment brief.Therefore, if the lawyer of the company
of seros reads my indictment and oneof the points is the one hundred and
thirteen in the act of plenary andsays look and demand this that is off
and I modify the definitive ones,modify them and remove them to concept as
(19:53):
it is off. It' snot like that anymore. So what do
I get from this and I guessit' ll be a correct induction that
hasn' t paid for it.The insurance company that didn' t pay
them. But the funny thing isthat, once it raises the lack of
choosing the lack of incongruity to grantsomething that it has asked, who cannot
(20:19):
ask, which is the approach ofthe resource. Then, in a second
motive, what he does is me. The truth is that I read it
very quickly and I didn' tget it very well either. But what
I understood fundamentally is you can't condemn me where the court can condemn
me for these expenses when I haveto pay them directly to the polio sergio
(20:41):
that health. But you think hepaid for them. You have clearly paid
them, because if you have createddiet you have paid them, it disappears
even on appeal. You accompany meto the receipt where they were paid and
I paid that amount, because itis a roasted amount. I paid them
and it' s already unpredicted andneither does UAs for the execution of sentence
(21:02):
prove it. And the insurance companybecause it starts by saying that the inconsistency
of the lack of fencing and thatbut then ends the last paragraph by saying
but we admit that we have topay for this. But it also recognizes
the amount. No. No,of course because I could also discuss the
amount. Not the one about notarguing with her. He didn' t
(21:22):
discuss it. Not even the trial. No. No. No. No,
no, he doesn' t discussit in the appeal. So what
is the conclusion that one can witha certain boldness come to is that what
the company intends to do is todisappear that sentence in order not to fulfill
the payment that it is seeing law, not to lift it, not to
(21:47):
pay it anymore. But I thinkit' s very risky, because if
you don' t pay, butI think it' s very risky to
get into that bde in general it' s okay, because it would be
very possible. Keep in mind thatso far the public health service or motorcycling,
who is not there I have alreadymade the payments do not know any
of this because it does not knowthe procedure. And I' ll tell
(22:07):
you one thing. I dare say. Let' s see the experience shows
me that never labor mutualities can everbe very strong. But I haven'
t seen him staff who don't claim future medical expenses. All the
complaints he sends criminal when he hasbeen a civilian perpetrator have always been made
(22:29):
by providing the invoices for the assistanceprovided. I, who am already an
old man, have not seen complaintsof future medical expenses by social entities.
They' ve never been paid,they didn' t claim them. In
my opinion, this law is madenot to pay. What he' s
going to do is lift the hareand make them see that they can and
(22:53):
can claim. It should be bornein mind that by reading the social security
legislation as conceived, the refusal ofthe right of reimbursement is reimbursement of what
has been paid and of the labourmutual societies that have continued to provide future
assistance to a tetraplegic have not beenbored that, once Spain is discharged,
(23:15):
that this could be claimed. Ihave not seen complaints in the light of
the law, they have to beawakened the hare that this is reclaimable,
because the law recognizes the concept asrecoverable. Then to me the feeling that
gives me with all respect, withall the consideration for any company and so
on. I have the feeling thatthe reason for the appeal is to get
(23:41):
that sentence to go away with thepossibility of not paying for any alcohol,
because it might be that the publicservice sabrison is not aware that this can
claim it. I' m convertedbecause he keeps track. Nor because the
law that called a mutual labour,a work mute, is as soon as
(24:03):
it reaches an accident or has anaccident at work, knows perfectly well that
the victim is a traffic victim.Therefore, in my newtob one can personate
in any proceedings or claim the victimif he/ she has a lawyer to
pass the data on to the lawyerto personate himself/ herself as a harmer.
No. Many workers have addressed mebecause they have a claimable expense,
(24:26):
expenses paid by loving data foot thedata of percent for people, but on
expenses already paid, on bill,but not on future spending. That'
s the point. The point forme is that what is novel is the
one that is explicitly recognized with allthe editorial and trickle effects. The right
(24:48):
to reimbursement of public health services isexplicitly recognized, let us say in a
broad sense, and, by extension, even if it does not say so
to the many working conditions, tothe mutuality of accidents at work, to
charge future medical expenses ahead of time, which seems to me to be an
anomaly. It seems to me likean anomaly because in the background, they
(25:14):
should be paid for expenses incurred forannual periods or whatever, because it is
not serious that they give three hundredseventy zero euros to a public health service
for the assistance they are going toprovide to Manuel' s client and that,
for any circumstance, the client Manueldies soon for cause alien to the
(25:36):
accident, for example, and thatthree hundred zero euros have been bolused for
services that he will not provide.Me. For me, the issue of
the future is that they must becompensated, but they should be compensated for
payments made and for procedures and executionof judgment by liquidation I say, in
(25:56):
fact, in the challenge that Iam making and that manifests all this that
we are talking about. Yes,which I make clear to the pitch game
that well, obviously it has shownus the payment and that I am curious
and that from that moment I announcethat I will follow up in execution of
sentence of the cash payment of thatamount. But of course it seems to
me that if in the end itis an amount that they will pay or
(26:18):
that they have paid or that theyplan to pay, what I find a
little striking in quotation marks, recklessis to open that can, that is,
I think to get into an eggplantthat if in the end the headquarters,
that are slow public administration in general. But when they get into one
thing, they really get into it, that is to say, that above
(26:41):
all with a sanitary extension, thatthe first complaint that the administration has all
the public administrations, and the firstcry that they have is the lack of
means and the lack of budget,for of these there are about two hundred
per year, for in each community, each to three hundred thousand four hundred
(27:03):
thousand euros each, since one canmaintain a solute sketch with all that amount
and they do not make it good, because I think it is fair.
But that, as a conclusion ofthat, everything has been talked about.
I highlight the success of Manuel Inhaving made this anomalous claim for someone else
' s account, because if hehadn' t done so, the sentence
(27:26):
would not have been pronounced on thatmatter and because of the suspicion that,
if, after so many years,the insurer hadn' t paid, as
we believe, or it seems thatI can believe that he hadn' t
paid that amount. Now you've bothered him. We suspect, It
may be suspected that if that indicationhad not been made in the letter of
(27:51):
Manuel' s final conclusions and thesentence, he would not have taken that
indemnity. It is quite possible thatthe insurer would have been spared the payment
of these three hundred zero euros whichare public resources, public resources that serve
(28:11):
to attend to many things and thatand that if thanks to this they will
be paid, they will really bepaid. But the truth is that,
after so many years of not havingpaid, if you didn' t say
anything to the sentence, I thinkit would have been a saving. And
(28:34):
that' s the real purpose ofa hundred gibberishes. He was gallimating the
lack of control you said the otherday. It seems to me that there
is a lack of control, alack of control and the creation of things.
But how that is controlled is notpossible, because you said it was
(28:55):
already done well, which is alimiting capsule perfectly transferred to a Varemos set
to do the things that the legislatorwould have said. In these cases the
procedure will be offered to the publichealth service that has provided services. We
moved two definitions of clausortives that areconsidered abusive. Therefore, they are null,
(29:15):
but anyway, well, we saidthat in this we will give one
for a little bit and we haveconsumed entire chapter only one thing. I
said that the sentence you would givefor a lot of decisions but the other
points worthy of comment are so delicateon a subject that is subviu says that
(29:37):
I particularly think I prefer to commenton it, because, as well as
the issue of medical expenses, itis unequivocal with what has been held here
in the other matters or are morediscussed. That is why I have confined
this chapter precisely to this particular conceptthat you can imagine in the sentence,
(29:57):
since much more CONs are granted ofthese initiations that we are going to comment
on when the sentence of the ProvincialHigh Court of Madrid comes out to see
how we are left in all this. Well, thank you very much.
As always Mariano I place you foranother chapter, because this is to give
for much and nothing. Thank youagain for your presence and excellent knowledge.
(30:19):
Thank you. More and more brandsare betting on podcast as a communication tool.
But what advantages it has with apodcast. You talk to your client
(30:41):
in the ear, establishing a moredirect, close and emotional connection, a
space of dialogue that creates community,also increases the memory of your brand and
your credibility. The wolf we wantto help you. We are a producer
that drives your communication through the word. For more information, visit our lowpo
(31:04):
website. It' s or writeus to contact arroba it' s for
the podcast bet for crazy
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com