August 12, 2024 • 22 mins
Join Janey and Heather Wheatley for a conversation about Green Blindness, a little known term for not knowing the type of plants you’re seeing and more importantly not knowing the role they play in our environment. She’s on a mission to help us understand what knowing about plants can tell us from soil, water quality, history of an area and so much more!
They also discuss “biophilia” which is the idea that humans have an innate tendency to connect with nature and other living beings. The term literally translates to "love of life and you’ll love this conversation! Plant lover or not, we are finding more and more that humans feel the need to be connected whether through colors in their home or natural elements in their spaces.
If you’re listening to this podcast, you probably know how a connection with plants can improve your wellbeing, but we discuss why that connection is so vital to all, not just plant lovers.
Heather is a horticulturist and lifelong learner and we can all learn a lot from her in this episode!
Heather Wheatley on Instagram
Love what you’re hearing? Make sure to check out DPWR on YouTube!
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Dig, Plant, Water, Repeat is produced in association with Caloroga Shark Media. Hear other shows from Caloroga Shark along with subscription info and Merch with free shipping here!
They also discuss “biophilia” which is the idea that humans have an innate tendency to connect with nature and other living beings. The term literally translates to "love of life and you’ll love this conversation! Plant lover or not, we are finding more and more that humans feel the need to be connected whether through colors in their home or natural elements in their spaces.
If you’re listening to this podcast, you probably know how a connection with plants can improve your wellbeing, but we discuss why that connection is so vital to all, not just plant lovers.
Heather is a horticulturist and lifelong learner and we can all learn a lot from her in this episode!
Heather Wheatley on Instagram
Love what you’re hearing? Make sure to check out DPWR on YouTube!
Store
Dig, Plant, Water, Repeat is produced in association with Caloroga Shark Media. Hear other shows from Caloroga Shark along with subscription info and Merch with free shipping here!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Support for this podcast comes from Proven Winners, the plant
brand that gardeners of all experienced levels trust the most,
and the brand that I have personally trusted in my
own gardening journey since twenty twenty. Proven Winners selections, including annuals, perennials, shrubs, trees, bulbs,
and even houseplants are simply amazing and all are trialed, tested,
(00:22):
and specifically chosen for one purpose and one purpose only
to ensure gardener success. Visit Provenwinners dot com and find
your next favorite plant today.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Callarogashock Media.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Hi everyone, Janie here, Welcome back to my garden and
welcome back to the Dig Plant.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Water Repeat podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I'm honored to introduce you to my friend Heather Wheatley.
She is a horticulturist that I have met through Proven
Winners and Heather, you are the smartest plant lady I know.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Maybe I'm the oldest plant lady.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Stop it not even close. So I met Heather.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I work with Proven Winners, which is a very well
known plant brand. It's the best plant brand. And Heather,
you work with Proven Winners. What do you do exactly
for Proven Winners.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I'm the marketing specialist for B two C and C
two C. So I handle the business voice to the
consumer and the consumer's voice to each other, how.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
They talk about the plant material. And I do my
best to.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Give everybody a full understanding of the work that we do,
why we do it, our mission, vision and values. Yeah,
I don't tell anybody, and I know this is a
private conversation, but I have the best about in the company.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
You're so good, You're so sweet.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So Heather is one of the most genuine people that
I've ever met my entire life.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
And she is.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Genuinely a plant nerd, solid plan nothing else. Janie, don't
ever ask me to cook for you. I don't ask
me for directions. I will get you lost plants I
have on LACKO. I mean, that's all, That's what I have.
Heather is the one who taught me about temporennials. You
(02:31):
all know I've I talked about temporennials a lot, which
are annuals that will overwinter in certain areas. Heather's the
one who introduced me to that concept, among a whole
bunch of other concepts. So, Heather, you are a horticulturists, correct, yes,
And how would you describe what a horticulturist is.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
I could describe it on a scientific level, but the
truth is my job is to connect people to plants.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, that's my job. Yeah, and so as.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
A horticulturist, I hope to do that with the most
meaningful plant material that is, you know, has promote biodiversity,
has ecoregional value, solved problems for whatever environment you're going
to put them in, worn off as many aggressive plant
(03:19):
material and they have the terrible name of invasive, and
I know that it feels like that, but in some places,
an invasive plant is native to that area and doesn't
behave that way. So you know, and on that note,
part of my work as horticultures is to educate and
to stay educated.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
That's the fun part.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
So I get to work with you and you have
like amazing questions and you know, hopefully I know the answer,
but if I don't, it means like it's a research
which is great.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So I have a lot of background in research.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So yeah, yeah, I mean, like I said, you have
introduced me to so many things, and it's so you
almost make me look at gardening a little bit differently.
You know, you can look at it as the plants
of the flowers or whatever. But then you'll talk about
you know, storm drain runoff. What were we just talking
about before we start.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh stormwater management SA right, and so
where I I'm on the East Coast and that is
a very serious issue here, but less of an issue
in your area where you're always in drought or drought recovery.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, right, we would like some stormwater management, right, yeah.
So it's super interesting. So I found a really great
quote online as it said, horticulturists are gardeners, but they're
also ecologists, conservationalists, botanists, historians, biologists, entomologists, designers, and more.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And I think, I mean, do you think that describes
your what you do? Pretty yes? Right, yes.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Although when I asked to study this, and I wish
I had that quote. When I was asking for money
for school, my parents were like, no, no.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
No, that's a hobby.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Yeah, and love you, but you're going to make a
fine attorney someday, No mom, Well actually yeah, I said no, mom,
But only in my later when I went back to
school is when I was able to study horticulture. So
I studied at the University of Maryland in Fine horticulture
(05:28):
and sustainable agricultural management as an adult.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
So I was thirty four, thirty five, I think.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Dang, but that was my money on my nickel to
promote my passion. But prior to that, I was with
the Department of Justice for ten years office. Yeah, I
was with the Criminal Vision Office of International Affairs, specializing
the extradition.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, like that had no idea. I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
It's so funny because this is my second career too,
you know what I mean, Like this whole gardening cares
my second curer. And it's so funny because it's obviously
passion projects for us, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
For you feel born to it, don't you.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, it's like I found it.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Yeah, yes, yes, it was like trying trying so hard
to get out, you know, all the time. And which
is a natural occurrence, Like if you're born to it,
which most people, you know, they have a connection to nature,
they just don't know how to express it or get
to it.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
But if you're born to it, it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's going to come out sooner or later. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
The important thing is, I think is too which I
like doing for my job, is I give people an
excuse to let it come out, you know, Like I
hope you have a chance to get in your garden today.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Like you say, go do it, Go do what you
want to do.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And I know you you talk about all these amazing
horticulture subjects all the time. You're always on panels and
all the interviews, like you look up Heather Wheatley and
it's like, dang girl. So that's how it happens, right, Yeah,
tell me what you're like, like, tell me something that
you've been super passionate about that you've been screaming for
(07:10):
the rooftop lately. I think I have an idea.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yes, I think you do.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Most recently, I've been really fascinated with plant blindness. Like
I thought at this point, especially during COVID, where everyone
slowed down and they took them in it, and they
they got to know their kids and their pets and
their home and their their backyards. And you know, I thought,
like plant blindness wasn't a thing anymore. But plant blindness,
(07:37):
green blindness, I think it was it was called when
it was first coined. It's still real, it's still real.
And so I've been thinking so much about living biophilically
so that.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
You know by feel like, I think I should define
that first.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
And define plant blindness or green.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
So plant blindness is when you're driving down the road
and you and you, you're in the car and that
just tweet trees are just sweeping by you in the window,
and you don't even know that those.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Are all like, oh, that's an ope, that's.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
An aspen, that's a that And if all of these
are pine trees, then obviously this was at one point,
you know, either underwater or a source of water, and
it's sandy soil, and that's why that pine likes that
you just drive right, you don't even know and you're
not even connected right.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Right, because plants, if you don't.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Know them and they're not familiar to you, then it's
just all one blob, right. But if you did know them,
then you would know about the area that you're in,
what kind of animals, You might see why civilization was
drawn here to you know, to put homes and things
like that.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
You know, you know some measure of water quality, You
might know a little bit of agronomy. You might know.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
You know which first nations people lived in this area
and what they might have farmed if they were farmers,
if they were you know, if they you know, would
take long sojourns and then probably it's you know, they're
for the hunt. But if they were growing in a
certain area, you would know that this is a race area,
this is a wheat area, this is a you know,
(09:27):
so being blind to all that, it's just oh, this
is lost. Yes, But here's how we express ourselves. When
we do have green plants, we don't even know is
we have wooden dining room tables, we have green paint
on the walls, we have you know, neutral colors or
(09:49):
things that are found in the Great Plains or or
in nature, and we don't even know why we're drawn.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
To these things.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
And it's because of biophelia, which is why plant blindness
or green blindness, even though we haven't I'm learning more
and more and more every day that I go into
people's homes. They're not gardeners, but their kitchen is full
of you know, roses on the wall or like prints
(10:16):
of bees.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, I'm like, what does that mean to you?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
It doesn't matter because at that point they've connected themselves
to something natural and it's an it's an internal need
to be connected to nature, so they live bipheelically only
they have natural products in their house.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
See what I mean. Every time I talk to heap,
I learned something new that is so interesting but interesting.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Hot and clothes, natural fibers feel better on your skin
than the polyesters.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
You'll see. House colors are even changing. They're all more natural.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
You know, there was a time when the most popular
house colors were you know, like white right, show show
every every nailed it's in your house on a big
white house, so you could show your your your wealth
or you know, but now there's more of a kind
of a I don't know, Frank Lloyd right, need to
(11:13):
blend in with nature and be the backdrop for your
garden or you know, if you are actually a gardener,
you think about those choices that you make for your
house and how it looks the exterior, how it looks
in the garden. Yes, it's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Whether this is so fun you're saying that because I
literally went to home depot yesterday and got a whole
bunch of paint chips that are green. Yeah, but I
am a gardener, so you know, I understand that but
it's just it's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
How do you think that that's just a human nature
quality that we have?
Speaker 4 (11:49):
It is. But you know what's interesting is one of
the studies that I was reading is when you get
like you first have a baby, and you put the
mobile up right and it has like and I'll have
a giraffe and a and an elephant and a lion
and a bear. And then you teach your children that
the bear goes and the lion goes, you know, so
(12:11):
they can they can they can easily identify silouettes of
animals they will probably never encounter. But you cannot tell
me you've ever seen a mobile for a child where
it's a no leaf and an asking leaf and you know,
so those are things they're going to see every day
in their life. And but now they're looking for a rhinoceros.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, does that make sense? Is that going to help you?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
All? Long? Run? Right?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
So it starts early.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Heather, one second, We got to take a quick sec
to hear a message from our sponsor, which is actually
proven winners.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
So I'll be back in just one minute.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Great, All right, everyone, we are back with the Dig
Plant Water Repeat podcast. I have my good friend Heather
Wheatley on today. She is a horticulturist. She works with
proven winners, and she is one of the smartest plant
people I know. And we are talking about green blindness,
(13:08):
plant blindness, which is so it's just so interesting to
think about it. Heather, I was talking to a native
gardener who talked about plant blindness as well, and how
important it was to be able to understand that it's
not just the same plant that you see in a field.
There's hundreds of different varieties there and we need to
(13:31):
appreciate every single variety if we can. You know what
I mean That there's diversity in this country, which is amazing.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
It's necessary and beautiful, and you know, it's not a
new concept. I mean, it's been going on forever. But
what's really interesting is that there were two scientists I
think they were actually biology teachers, Sussler and Wandersea, which
is a great last name to be biologist.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So, but.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Just recently, I think it was ninety eight or ninety six,
somewhere in the late nineties, they coined the phrase green blindness.
And so ever since then, I've been reading a lot
about biophilia and living naturally, and it is an important
(14:24):
topic because it is natural to connect yourself to people
totally makes sense because we need each other and that
sort of thing. But I think that we don't connect
to plants because we don't really understand how much we
need them, right, you know, it's a chore to take
care of them. They need us more than we need them,
(14:45):
is the old adage. But it's absolutely not true.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Your health and wellness is completely incumbent upon the amount
of plants on this planet. I mean not just the
breathing part, but just your happiness too.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
So you know, the house plants.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
If you don't have light for those things, then some
people are bringing in biophilic elements, like we were talking
about a wooden table or a wooden bench, or natural
fiber blankets and things like that. Or they're using even prints,
you know, wallpaper prints, pictures. The dining room is filled
(15:25):
with like plates with gorgeous flowers on them. That's that's
totally normal, and we're comfortable in that space. So I
think it's just one more step from all of that
to just open the back door right in a little hole.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Right, So do you think the whole the ultimate benefit
of biophilia is mental healthy mentally absolutely, and so I mean,
I know I always say I was in a bad
place when when I started gardening, and gardening completely changed
my world around mentally, right, And so it's funny to
(16:00):
hear you say this. You know that it could be
something as simple as a piece of wood dining table,
you know what I mean, Yes, can even help us.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
A little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
How do you think somebody could recognize that they have
green blindness? Like, I guess, what are the symptoms of
green blackness?
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Say, almost every living, breathing person experiences some form of
green blindness, especially when they're in the car and they're
rushing to get somewhere. Yeah, they're not aware of the
outside environment.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I think one of the.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Things that parents don't do is say, oh, you know,
they'll say, look at that butterfly, look at that ladybug,
but they won't say, oh, look at that beautiful tree
providing shade for us, or isn't it a cooler day
under this tree. So pointing out something that they don't
recognize themselves to their children, I think is a nice
(16:58):
evolution out of it.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
But we all experience it at some point.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I've been late to get a flight, and I drive
down a highway that is gorgeous with pine, gorgeous with pine,
And if I just cracked my window in the heat,
you can smell of pine.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
But if I don't, and I just blaze down the
highway and I don't experience that, you know, that natural
fragrance that would uplift me while I'm going through the
hassolds of the airport, I miss it, right, And I yeah,
I think about it all the time, but I do.
I We all experience it, for sure. But awareness, as
(17:35):
they say about problems, is half of it. And you
can you can break out of it, and you can
break your kids out of it, and each one teach one.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
So right, Well, I think that the return to gardening
during the pandemic, You know how many people return either
returned or went for the first time to gardening. Yes,
we were all stressed out at that time. We were
all all stressed, right, So what does that tell you
that when the world was in a stressful position, we
(18:05):
all went back to gardening, which is kind of what
you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Right, over twenty million new gardeners did we hold on
to them?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Right?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
But when you get busy again, you forget, you forget
what healds you.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
You know, So what do you think are some things
that people listening can do to combat that green blindness
coming up? I mean obviously cracking your window to sell
the pine trees, right.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yes, yes, that I mean, be be aware, be open
to it, and you know, bring in a branch from
outside and you know, put it on the dining room table,
or put it in the kitchen, or.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Put it in a vase. It could be anything.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
And if you can't do that or you don't want
to bring stuff inside, totally get that.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
But just be aware. And the next time you're at
pottery barn or or you know, renovation, run your hand
across a big wide plank of wooden table, you know,
and recognize how that makes you feel.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
It will heal you. I mean everything natural. There's so many,
so many things that you that that we need that
are already here right Plants that heal us from sickness,
plants that make us happy, plants that are used for
dyes in you know, clothing or you know, cosmetics, things
(19:39):
like that.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
It's all here. So every chance you.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Think of it, I mean, put your hand out, touch
the wood smell the air.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
I was just thinking, you know how everybody says that
books smell good. Oh god, don't they just right? I mean,
it's the same type of thing you're smelling.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
You longus.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
But anyway, great, it's no, it's healthful. I mean, it's
not like black mold or something like that. But yeah,
part of your experience with books is that it's natural
paper made from wood pulp, and it's holding moisture from
the environment. So yeah, even that has a by I
(20:21):
feel like, advantage to craving a book.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Can you and snip your kindle?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You can, No, And it's not the same. It's not
the same, just like, just like it's not the same.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
You know, spending the day inside watching TV is not
the same as actually going outside and watching your plants
and you know, a wind and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I love this. I love that. Thank you so much.
Thank you for spending the time with me on the.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Podcast tonight Pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, I mean it's so fun because, like I said,
every time I talk to you, I learned something new,
and it's something that's so like my brain would have
never gotten to green dadness today.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Well, I'll send you some links and some really really
good books on the subject, and you can keep them
or share them.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
I hope you share them.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I will share them in a description down below you guys,
so check them out, and then I'll also post them
on Facebook and Instagram as well. So huge, Thank you, Heather,
I really really appreciate it. If you have any interest
in horticulture anything like that, check out Heather Wheatley. She
is on Instagram and I'll leave that link below as well.
(21:28):
All right, I hope you all enjoyed this, and I
hope you all have a chance to get in your
garden today. Thank you so much to my podcast sponsor,
Proven Winners. Visit your local garden center today and look
for the white containers featuring the Proven Winner's logo. There's
a reason they're the number one plant brand that gardeners
(21:50):
like me trust the most. Visit Proven Winners dot com
for tips, ideas, and so much more. Dig Plant Water
Repeat is produced in a association with Calaroga Shark Media.
It was written and hosted by me Janie Santos, with
marketing and production assistance from Courtney Clark. Please consider subscribing
(22:11):
and watch us on YouTube. Or follow us on your
favorite podcast app of choice to get alerts on all
new episodes and hey, if you liked the show, give
us a review and hit those five stars on Apple.
Executive producers are Mark Francis, John McDermott, and Janie Santos
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Calarogashark Media
Support for this podcast comes from Proven Winners, the plant
brand that gardeners of all experienced levels trust the most,
and the brand that I have personally trusted in my
own gardening journey since twenty twenty. Proven Winners selections, including annuals, perennials, shrubs, trees, bulbs,
and even houseplants are simply amazing and all are trialed, tested,
(00:22):
and specifically chosen for one purpose and one purpose only
to ensure gardener success. Visit Provenwinners dot com and find
your next favorite plant today.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Callarogashock Media.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Hi everyone, Janie here, Welcome back to my garden and
welcome back to the Dig Plant.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Water Repeat podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I'm honored to introduce you to my friend Heather Wheatley.
She is a horticulturist that I have met through Proven
Winners and Heather, you are the smartest plant lady I know.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Maybe I'm the oldest plant lady.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Stop it not even close. So I met Heather.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I work with Proven Winners, which is a very well
known plant brand. It's the best plant brand. And Heather,
you work with Proven Winners. What do you do exactly
for Proven Winners.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I'm the marketing specialist for B two C and C
two C. So I handle the business voice to the
consumer and the consumer's voice to each other, how.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
They talk about the plant material. And I do my
best to.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Give everybody a full understanding of the work that we do,
why we do it, our mission, vision and values. Yeah,
I don't tell anybody, and I know this is a
private conversation, but I have the best about in the company.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
You're so good, You're so sweet.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So Heather is one of the most genuine people that
I've ever met my entire life.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
And she is.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Genuinely a plant nerd, solid plan nothing else. Janie, don't
ever ask me to cook for you. I don't ask
me for directions. I will get you lost plants I
have on LACKO. I mean, that's all, That's what I have.
Heather is the one who taught me about temporennials. You
(02:31):
all know I've I talked about temporennials a lot, which
are annuals that will overwinter in certain areas. Heather's the
one who introduced me to that concept, among a whole
bunch of other concepts. So, Heather, you are a horticulturists, correct, yes,
And how would you describe what a horticulturist is.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
I could describe it on a scientific level, but the
truth is my job is to connect people to plants.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, that's my job. Yeah, and so as.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
A horticulturist, I hope to do that with the most
meaningful plant material that is, you know, has promote biodiversity,
has ecoregional value, solved problems for whatever environment you're going
to put them in, worn off as many aggressive plant
(03:19):
material and they have the terrible name of invasive, and
I know that it feels like that, but in some places,
an invasive plant is native to that area and doesn't
behave that way. So you know, and on that note,
part of my work as horticultures is to educate and
to stay educated.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
That's the fun part.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
So I get to work with you and you have
like amazing questions and you know, hopefully I know the answer,
but if I don't, it means like it's a research
which is great.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So I have a lot of background in research.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So yeah, yeah, I mean, like I said, you have
introduced me to so many things, and it's so you
almost make me look at gardening a little bit differently.
You know, you can look at it as the plants
of the flowers or whatever. But then you'll talk about
you know, storm drain runoff. What were we just talking
about before we start.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh stormwater management SA right, and so
where I I'm on the East Coast and that is
a very serious issue here, but less of an issue
in your area where you're always in drought or drought recovery.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, right, we would like some stormwater management, right, yeah.
So it's super interesting. So I found a really great
quote online as it said, horticulturists are gardeners, but they're
also ecologists, conservationalists, botanists, historians, biologists, entomologists, designers, and more.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And I think, I mean, do you think that describes
your what you do? Pretty yes? Right, yes.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Although when I asked to study this, and I wish
I had that quote. When I was asking for money
for school, my parents were like, no, no.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
No, that's a hobby.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Yeah, and love you, but you're going to make a
fine attorney someday, No mom, Well actually yeah, I said no, mom,
But only in my later when I went back to
school is when I was able to study horticulture. So
I studied at the University of Maryland in Fine horticulture
(05:28):
and sustainable agricultural management as an adult.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
So I was thirty four, thirty five, I think.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Dang, but that was my money on my nickel to
promote my passion. But prior to that, I was with
the Department of Justice for ten years office. Yeah, I
was with the Criminal Vision Office of International Affairs, specializing
the extradition.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, like that had no idea. I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
It's so funny because this is my second career too,
you know what I mean, Like this whole gardening cares
my second curer. And it's so funny because it's obviously
passion projects for us, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
For you feel born to it, don't you.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, it's like I found it.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Yeah, yes, yes, it was like trying trying so hard
to get out, you know, all the time. And which
is a natural occurrence, Like if you're born to it,
which most people, you know, they have a connection to nature,
they just don't know how to express it or get
to it.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
But if you're born to it, it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's going to come out sooner or later. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
The important thing is, I think is too which I
like doing for my job, is I give people an
excuse to let it come out, you know, Like I
hope you have a chance to get in your garden today.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Like you say, go do it, Go do what you
want to do.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And I know you you talk about all these amazing
horticulture subjects all the time. You're always on panels and
all the interviews, like you look up Heather Wheatley and
it's like, dang girl. So that's how it happens, right, Yeah,
tell me what you're like, like, tell me something that
you've been super passionate about that you've been screaming for
(07:10):
the rooftop lately. I think I have an idea.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yes, I think you do.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Most recently, I've been really fascinated with plant blindness. Like
I thought at this point, especially during COVID, where everyone
slowed down and they took them in it, and they
they got to know their kids and their pets and
their home and their their backyards. And you know, I thought,
like plant blindness wasn't a thing anymore. But plant blindness,
(07:37):
green blindness, I think it was it was called when
it was first coined. It's still real, it's still real.
And so I've been thinking so much about living biophilically
so that.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
You know by feel like, I think I should define
that first.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
And define plant blindness or green.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
So plant blindness is when you're driving down the road
and you and you, you're in the car and that
just tweet trees are just sweeping by you in the window,
and you don't even know that those.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Are all like, oh, that's an ope, that's.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
An aspen, that's a that And if all of these
are pine trees, then obviously this was at one point,
you know, either underwater or a source of water, and
it's sandy soil, and that's why that pine likes that
you just drive right, you don't even know and you're
not even connected right.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Right, because plants, if you don't.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Know them and they're not familiar to you, then it's
just all one blob, right. But if you did know them,
then you would know about the area that you're in,
what kind of animals, You might see why civilization was
drawn here to you know, to put homes and things
like that.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
You know, you know some measure of water quality, You
might know a little bit of agronomy. You might know.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
You know which first nations people lived in this area
and what they might have farmed if they were farmers,
if they were you know, if they you know, would
take long sojourns and then probably it's you know, they're
for the hunt. But if they were growing in a
certain area, you would know that this is a race area,
this is a wheat area, this is a you know,
(09:27):
so being blind to all that, it's just oh, this
is lost. Yes, But here's how we express ourselves. When
we do have green plants, we don't even know is
we have wooden dining room tables, we have green paint
on the walls, we have you know, neutral colors or
(09:49):
things that are found in the Great Plains or or
in nature, and we don't even know why we're drawn.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
To these things.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
And it's because of biophelia, which is why plant blindness
or green blindness, even though we haven't I'm learning more
and more and more every day that I go into
people's homes. They're not gardeners, but their kitchen is full
of you know, roses on the wall or like prints
(10:16):
of bees.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, I'm like, what does that mean to you?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
It doesn't matter because at that point they've connected themselves
to something natural and it's an it's an internal need
to be connected to nature, so they live bipheelically only
they have natural products in their house.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
See what I mean. Every time I talk to heap,
I learned something new that is so interesting but interesting.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Hot and clothes, natural fibers feel better on your skin
than the polyesters.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
You'll see. House colors are even changing. They're all more natural.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
You know, there was a time when the most popular
house colors were you know, like white right, show show
every every nailed it's in your house on a big
white house, so you could show your your your wealth
or you know, but now there's more of a kind
of a I don't know, Frank Lloyd right, need to
(11:13):
blend in with nature and be the backdrop for your
garden or you know, if you are actually a gardener,
you think about those choices that you make for your
house and how it looks the exterior, how it looks
in the garden. Yes, it's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Whether this is so fun you're saying that because I
literally went to home depot yesterday and got a whole
bunch of paint chips that are green. Yeah, but I
am a gardener, so you know, I understand that but
it's just it's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
How do you think that that's just a human nature
quality that we have?
Speaker 4 (11:49):
It is. But you know what's interesting is one of
the studies that I was reading is when you get
like you first have a baby, and you put the
mobile up right and it has like and I'll have
a giraffe and a and an elephant and a lion
and a bear. And then you teach your children that
the bear goes and the lion goes, you know, so
(12:11):
they can they can they can easily identify silouettes of
animals they will probably never encounter. But you cannot tell
me you've ever seen a mobile for a child where
it's a no leaf and an asking leaf and you know,
so those are things they're going to see every day
in their life. And but now they're looking for a rhinoceros.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, does that make sense? Is that going to help you?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
All? Long? Run? Right?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
So it starts early.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Heather, one second, We got to take a quick sec
to hear a message from our sponsor, which is actually
proven winners.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
So I'll be back in just one minute.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Great, All right, everyone, we are back with the Dig
Plant Water Repeat podcast. I have my good friend Heather
Wheatley on today. She is a horticulturist. She works with
proven winners, and she is one of the smartest plant
people I know. And we are talking about green blindness,
(13:08):
plant blindness, which is so it's just so interesting to
think about it. Heather, I was talking to a native
gardener who talked about plant blindness as well, and how
important it was to be able to understand that it's
not just the same plant that you see in a field.
There's hundreds of different varieties there and we need to
(13:31):
appreciate every single variety if we can. You know what
I mean That there's diversity in this country, which is amazing.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
It's necessary and beautiful, and you know, it's not a
new concept. I mean, it's been going on forever. But
what's really interesting is that there were two scientists I
think they were actually biology teachers, Sussler and Wandersea, which
is a great last name to be biologist.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So, but.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Just recently, I think it was ninety eight or ninety six,
somewhere in the late nineties, they coined the phrase green blindness.
And so ever since then, I've been reading a lot
about biophilia and living naturally, and it is an important
(14:24):
topic because it is natural to connect yourself to people
totally makes sense because we need each other and that
sort of thing. But I think that we don't connect
to plants because we don't really understand how much we
need them, right, you know, it's a chore to take
care of them. They need us more than we need them,
(14:45):
is the old adage. But it's absolutely not true.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Your health and wellness is completely incumbent upon the amount
of plants on this planet. I mean not just the
breathing part, but just your happiness too.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
So you know, the house plants.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
If you don't have light for those things, then some
people are bringing in biophilic elements, like we were talking
about a wooden table or a wooden bench, or natural
fiber blankets and things like that. Or they're using even prints,
you know, wallpaper prints, pictures. The dining room is filled
(15:25):
with like plates with gorgeous flowers on them. That's that's
totally normal, and we're comfortable in that space. So I
think it's just one more step from all of that
to just open the back door right in a little hole.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Right, So do you think the whole the ultimate benefit
of biophilia is mental healthy mentally absolutely, and so I mean,
I know I always say I was in a bad
place when when I started gardening, and gardening completely changed
my world around mentally, right, And so it's funny to
(16:00):
hear you say this. You know that it could be
something as simple as a piece of wood dining table,
you know what I mean, Yes, can even help us.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
A little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
How do you think somebody could recognize that they have
green blindness? Like, I guess, what are the symptoms of
green blackness?
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Say, almost every living, breathing person experiences some form of
green blindness, especially when they're in the car and they're
rushing to get somewhere. Yeah, they're not aware of the
outside environment.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I think one of the.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Things that parents don't do is say, oh, you know,
they'll say, look at that butterfly, look at that ladybug,
but they won't say, oh, look at that beautiful tree
providing shade for us, or isn't it a cooler day
under this tree. So pointing out something that they don't
recognize themselves to their children, I think is a nice
(16:58):
evolution out of it.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
But we all experience it at some point.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I've been late to get a flight, and I drive
down a highway that is gorgeous with pine, gorgeous with pine,
And if I just cracked my window in the heat,
you can smell of pine.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
But if I don't, and I just blaze down the
highway and I don't experience that, you know, that natural
fragrance that would uplift me while I'm going through the
hassolds of the airport, I miss it, right, And I yeah,
I think about it all the time, but I do.
I We all experience it, for sure. But awareness, as
(17:35):
they say about problems, is half of it. And you
can you can break out of it, and you can
break your kids out of it, and each one teach one.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
So right, Well, I think that the return to gardening
during the pandemic, You know how many people return either
returned or went for the first time to gardening. Yes,
we were all stressed out at that time. We were
all all stressed, right, So what does that tell you
that when the world was in a stressful position, we
(18:05):
all went back to gardening, which is kind of what
you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Right, over twenty million new gardeners did we hold on
to them?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Right?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
But when you get busy again, you forget, you forget
what healds you.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
You know, So what do you think are some things
that people listening can do to combat that green blindness
coming up? I mean obviously cracking your window to sell
the pine trees, right.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yes, yes, that I mean, be be aware, be open
to it, and you know, bring in a branch from
outside and you know, put it on the dining room table,
or put it in the kitchen, or.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Put it in a vase. It could be anything.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
And if you can't do that or you don't want
to bring stuff inside, totally get that.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
But just be aware. And the next time you're at
pottery barn or or you know, renovation, run your hand
across a big wide plank of wooden table, you know,
and recognize how that makes you feel.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
It will heal you. I mean everything natural. There's so many,
so many things that you that that we need that
are already here right Plants that heal us from sickness,
plants that make us happy, plants that are used for
dyes in you know, clothing or you know, cosmetics, things
(19:39):
like that.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
It's all here. So every chance you.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Think of it, I mean, put your hand out, touch
the wood smell the air.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
I was just thinking, you know how everybody says that
books smell good. Oh god, don't they just right? I mean,
it's the same type of thing you're smelling.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
You longus.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
But anyway, great, it's no, it's healthful. I mean, it's
not like black mold or something like that. But yeah,
part of your experience with books is that it's natural
paper made from wood pulp, and it's holding moisture from
the environment. So yeah, even that has a by I
(20:21):
feel like, advantage to craving a book.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Can you and snip your kindle?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You can, No, And it's not the same. It's not
the same, just like, just like it's not the same.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
You know, spending the day inside watching TV is not
the same as actually going outside and watching your plants
and you know, a wind and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I love this. I love that. Thank you so much.
Thank you for spending the time with me on the.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Podcast tonight Pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, I mean it's so fun because, like I said,
every time I talk to you, I learned something new,
and it's something that's so like my brain would have
never gotten to green dadness today.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Well, I'll send you some links and some really really
good books on the subject, and you can keep them
or share them.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
I hope you share them.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I will share them in a description down below you guys,
so check them out, and then I'll also post them
on Facebook and Instagram as well. So huge, Thank you, Heather,
I really really appreciate it. If you have any interest
in horticulture anything like that, check out Heather Wheatley. She
is on Instagram and I'll leave that link below as well.
(21:28):
All right, I hope you all enjoyed this, and I
hope you all have a chance to get in your
garden today. Thank you so much to my podcast sponsor,
Proven Winners. Visit your local garden center today and look
for the white containers featuring the Proven Winner's logo. There's
a reason they're the number one plant brand that gardeners
(21:50):
like me trust the most. Visit Proven Winners dot com
for tips, ideas, and so much more. Dig Plant Water
Repeat is produced in a association with Calaroga Shark Media.
It was written and hosted by me Janie Santos, with
marketing and production assistance from Courtney Clark. Please consider subscribing
(22:11):
and watch us on YouTube. Or follow us on your
favorite podcast app of choice to get alerts on all
new episodes and hey, if you liked the show, give
us a review and hit those five stars on Apple.
Executive producers are Mark Francis, John McDermott, and Janie Santos
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Calarogashark Media
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