Fossil Wars Part 3 Dinosaurs

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Eric Gaskell, and you're listening to the
Distorted History podcast and program. I didn't give you many nails,
and you're a blunder. Look I'm radling. I'm got the

(00:24):
barah a long struggle for freedom, it really is a revolution.
As we resume our tale of feuding paleontologists Edward Drinker
Cope and O. C. Marsh, I believe in this point

(00:44):
Copad thanks to his rapid pasin writing name more ancient
animals and his rival Marshad. As frustrating as his likely
was for marsh he remained the more famous scientist, thanks
in no small part to the fact that he was
Yelle's professor of paleontology. Although so what really brought him
to the attention of the masses was his work assisting
famed English scientist Thomas Henry Huxley to provide evidence in

(01:07):
support of Darwin's theory of evolution. Huxy Ucye was the
most famous scientist of the era and had earned the
nickname of Darwin's Bulldog through his tireless efforts defending Darwin
and his theory. Marsh then assisted in these efforts by
providing Huxley with the fossilized evidence of the development of
early horses, tracing their progress from catsize burrowers that resided

(01:28):
in forest to larger animals that were better suited to
graze on the prairies, doing so by tracking the development
other teeth than those of herbivores, and by tracking how
their toes fused and eventually became who's all of which
helped to provide Huxy with a convincing argument in support
of Darwin's theory of evolution. Yet, despite all this fame
and acclaim, Marsh seemingly remained deeply annoyed and bothered by Cope.

(01:50):
It was like he could not stand having a competitor
of any kind and simply wanted to monopolize all the
fossils in the country so he could work at them
at his own pace. Up until this point, their contest
had been mainly focused on early fossilized mammals. That was
about to shift into a whole new gear thanks to
the discovery of never before seen or imagined dinosaur bone

(02:12):
yards in the West. Now, to be clear, scientists already
knew dinosaurs that existed. In fact, these would not even
be the first dinosaur bones discovered in North America, as
he first recorded discovery of a dinosaur fossil on the
coun and had taken place in seventeen eighty seven and
Woodbury Creek, New Jersey, by one Caspar Wistar, a Philadelphia physician.

(02:33):
That being said, when Caspar described this fine to the
American Philosophical Society, he really did not know what to
make of it. It obviously came from some enormous animal,
as Caspar would estimate the creature this bone had come
from to be quote, merely double the size of an elephant.
Beyond that, though, he could not say, and nor did
he have a name for the kind of creature that
it came from, this largely being due to the fact

(02:55):
that the term dinosaur hadn't even been invented at the time. Indeed,
it wouldn't be in until eighteen forty one, when English
unanimous Richard Owen coined the term dinosaurs, that we actually
had a word to describe these agent mysterious creatures. Meanwhile,
I should also know that as big of a deal
as dinosaurs are today, or at least I assume they
still are, I mean they were a huge deal when

(03:16):
I was a kid, and just seem to be one
of those things that kids will always be into plaster
still making the Jurassic Park slash World movies, even though
I'm of the impression that these subsequent Jurassic World movies
were equally not as good as the original Jurassic Park
sequels were. But that's neither here nor there. As my
point is, at the time when our story is taking place,
dinosaurs hadn't quite captured the public's imagination yet. Now. Some

(03:39):
of this is because a lot of the dinosaurs that
are basically household names today had yet to be discovered
and named. Indeed, these men would be responsible for discovering
and naming some of those very dinosaurs. Yet, despite this,
the eighteen seventy six Centennial Exposition in Philadelphia, America's first
World Fair, would provide an early demonstration of the ability

(04:00):
of dinosaurs to fascinate the general public and draw a
crowd as you see, and estimated ten million people would
attend the exposition over the course of that summer, a
number that is equivalent to a fifth in the nations
population at the time, and one of the most popular
exhibits at the exposition was the Smithsonian Institutions. This exhibit
was organized by Spencer Baird, who was determined to put

(04:22):
on the best show possible for a public who might
not have been fully behind science. The main attraction of
this exhibit, and one of the main attractions of the
festival as a whole, which held its own up against
displays of new inventions like the elevator and the telephone,
was a restored replica of a Hadrosaurus skeleton. Indeed, the
Hadrosaurus skeleton was so popular it was brought back to Washington,

(04:43):
d c. After the fair, where it was placed prominently
outside the Smithsonian. In fact, one of the main reasons
why we even have a Smithsonian Museum is due to
the success of the Centennial Exposition, which the Hadrosaurus skeleton
was a significant part of. As you see, Philadelphia had
been given more than a million dollars in loans to
carry out this festival, money that it wasn't clear if

(05:04):
they were going to be able to pay back or not. However,
the Smithsonian was promised that if the city did manage
to pay back its loans to the federal government, a
portion all that money would go to the construction of
a national museum. Interestingly enough, for our story, Cope had
been one of the voices supporting the hydrosaurs being put
on display. In contrast, Marsh was against it, as he

(05:24):
didn't really see the point. This was partially because, in
his view, fossils were only of interest as scientists, thus
there really was no reason to share them with the public,
which I guess just illustrates yet another difference these two
men had. That being said, why doubt the potential public
appeal at dinosaurs played a role in the feud. The
simple attraction of being the one to make a lay

(05:45):
claim to the discovery of such monumental agent beests was
apparently enough to amplify this feud even more. Yet, before
I get any further into Cope and Marsh's fight over
dinosaur bones, first, like always, I want to acknowledge my
sources for this series, which include Mark Jaffe's The Gilded Dinosaur,
The Fossil War between Edy Cope and OC Marsh, and
The Rise of American Science, Earl Lanham's The Bone Hunters

(06:09):
and David Rayne Wallace's The Bonehunter's Revenge, Dinosaur's Greed and
the Greatest Scientific Feud of the Gilded Age. And like always,
these and any other sources like websites that I used
will be listed on this podcast Coofeye and Blue Sky pages.
Plus for any who don'tant to skip through commercials, there's
always an ad free feed available to subscribers at patreon
dot com Slash Distorted History. And with all that being said,

(06:32):
let's begin. Things got started for Cope and Martian dinosaur
bones when Arthur Lakes went hiking in March eighteen seventy
seven in the hills west of Denver with his friend
Henry Beckwith now Lakes, who was an Oxford educated Episcopalian minister,
schoolteacher and amateur geologist, was out here in part to
look for fossilized leaves. Lakes and his friend beck With,

(06:53):
a retired naval captain, were then searching along the Barrel
Creek when they came across what they initially assumed was
a fossilized tree trunk due to its size. However, it
soon became apparent that what they had found was a
bit too smooth to be a tree, so Lakes began
examining it in more detail, and he soon came to
realize that what they had discovered was actually a bone,
a particularly massive bone, which was why they had initially

(07:15):
assumed it to be a tree trunk. Sun the two
starts to round for more remains of what had to
surely have been a massive animal, given what they had
found was apparently a vertebrae that was almost three feet
in circumference. As they did, the two men were simply
in all what they had found. Indeed, as it had
initially dawn on them what they were looking at, the
parrots stood in a stunt silence for a few moments

(07:36):
before breaking into loud cheers as they tossed their hats
into the air. They had found something wonderful, and soon
they found even more evidence of this huge creature as
it discovered another huge bone that was some two feet
long and ten inches in diameter. These bones were so
massive that they required the help of a local blacksmith
to help load them into a wagon so that they
could transport them to the nearby town of Morrison. Indeed,

(07:58):
they had apparently needed this strength of all three men
just to lift the vertebrae they had found into the wagon. Indeed,
the following weekend, Lakes would return to continue his search,
and indeed he would find more bones, including one that
looked like quote the stump of a large tree. Realizing
the likely importance of his discovery, Lakes wrote a letter
to the famous Yale professor O. C. Marsh, informing him

(08:19):
of his find and including sketches of the bones, adding
that he was of the belief that there were likely
many more bones in the area, so if Marsh was interested,
Lakes would await his instructions on how to proceed. Marsha, however,
would not respond. Despite this, Lakes would set up camp
along the Bear Creek, where, with the help of some
of his former students, he continued to search for and

(08:40):
find even more huge bones, finds that when they were
brought back to the nearby town of Morrison, worthy literal
talk of the town, as everyone wanted eight glimpse and
to debate about what kind of animal the bones had
come from, or even if they were bones at all. This, however,
was a bit problematic as many also wanted to handle
the bones, and despite their being stone, fossils can be

(09:01):
quite brittle. Indeed, when one quote, young fellow grabbed a
hold of the beautiful smooth polish shaft, mid quote cribbled
like a biscuit in his hands. Now with even more
bones in hand, Lakes would again write the Marsh informing
him of his continued discoveries and his belief that the
animal these bones had come from had to be at
least sixty to seventy feet long. Still, though he would

(09:23):
receive no response from the famous Yell paleontologist. A month
following this latest attempt a communication, and two months since
the initial discovery, Lake sent a literal ton of the
bones he had found to the professor in Newhaven. In
doing so, Lace requested that he'd be paid back the
money he had used to hire the laborers who had
assisted him in uncovering and left any bones, as well

(09:43):
as for the wagons required to haul the bones in
town from where they had been found. After all, Nike's
been doing all this work on his quote extremely small
teacher sealary. Notably, this time, Lakes did not just reach
out to Marsh, as he also sent some of the
extremely large vertebrae he had found to none other than
Marsh's rival Edward Drinker Cope in Philadelphia. Unlike Marsh, as

(10:04):
soon as Cope laid eyes on the bones, he responded
immediately wanting to know more, as he made an offer
to help Lakes continue his work. However, before Cope would
be willing to make an offer to purchase the bones,
as Lakes had offered him the opportunity to do, Cope
insisted he needed to know more. Primarily, he wanted to
see the skull. Lakes, excited at finally receiving a response,

(10:26):
was quick to pack up the skull and send it
along to Philadelphia as from Marsh. After multiple letters from Lakes,
he finally decided to respond, and in doing so also
sent a long one hundred dollars check. By this point, though,
Lakes had already exchanged two or three letters with Cope,
and had even sent him along a pair of skulls,
all of which he informed Marsh of when he finally
received a response from the Yale professor. In doing this,

(10:49):
Lake's unintentionally sent off the equivalent of a gold rush
for dinosaur bones as Marsh, upon learning that his hated
rival was now involved, immediately sent a telegram to Lakes,
as exchanged letters would be too slow for an issue
of such importance. As he was doing this, Marsh also
dispatched Benjamin Mudge, his chief bone collector in Kansas, to Colorado.

(11:09):
Upon receiving Marsh's telegram, Lakes informed the Yell Professor that
these skulls were already on their way to Cope. That
being said, he informed Marsh that he had made it
clear to the other man that the founal decision on
who would get the skeleton was still up to him. Plus,
he further assured the Yell Professor that even should he
decide to give Cope the skeleton, there were still five
to six other creatures he had already begun finding the bones.

(11:32):
Of These assurances, though, did little to comfort Marsh. He
had no interest in just some of the bones. He
wanted all of them. Indeed, his earlier lackadaisical approach was
gone now that Cope's name was in the mix. As such,
after ignoring Lake's letters for months, Marsh now all of
a sudden wanted to hire him, as he brought his
man mug And to supervise the work. Furthermore, he won

(11:53):
a last to keep the location of his discovery a secret,
likely to ensure that no other scientist won from Philadelphi
in particular, could start poking their noses around so as
to proach his bones. The thing was, as Lakes would
inform Marsh, the cat was kind of already out of
the bag seeing inside. The Colorado Springs Gazette had already
published an article with the headline quote the Bones of Monsters,

(12:16):
which detailness finds now. I have to make it clear that,
as we see Marsh's suddenly frantic and ravenous behavior concerning
these dinosaur fossils, that prior to this moment dinosaur fossils
hadn't really been, for the lack of a better term,
a bone of contention between Martian Cobe, which may help
to explain why to take in the Yale professor so
long to respond to Lake's letters. Marsh just had not

(12:38):
been all that interested in dinosaur bones until he learned
of Cope's potential involvement. Marsh had, after all, always been
far more interested in later prehistoric creatures. His attention had
generally been focused on prehistoric mammals and birds, in other words,
the types of creatures who were seen as highly important
and scientific circles for the role they could plain supporting
Darwin's theory of evolution. You know, the types of discoveries

(13:02):
that had brought Marsha's largest claim to fame to date. Indeed,
outside of his early terodactyl find Marsh prior to this moment,
had not really paid much attention to dinosaur fossils. In contrast, Cope,
who lacked Marsha's single minutness as scholarly focus, had more
wide ranging interest and had indeed dealt with dinosaur bones
with more frequency than his rival. One of his earliest discoveries,

(13:24):
for example, had been his eagle called Terrible Leaper. Additionally,
a year before Arthur Lakes had made his discovery, Cope
had been hunting for dinosaur bones in Montana. Now the
reason why Cope was able to undertake such an expedition
was because in December eighteen seventy five, his father, Alfred,
had died at the age of sixty nine, at which
point Cope, much like his rival Marsh, had years earlier,

(13:45):
received a sizable inheritance, and inheritance that amounted to nearly
a quarter of a million dollars or roughly seven million
dollars to day. With this money, Cope was finally free
to fund his own expeditions and go where he wanted.
His first target then was to Judith River Basin in Montana,
where years earlier several species of dinosaurs had been discovered
and sent to Joseph Leey to examine and study. Knowing this,

(14:08):
cop now free of financial worries and the need to
latch on a service to make his expeditions, would head
for the Judath River area in eighteen seventy six. Now,
it should be noted that this was quite the unusual choice,
given that Cope departed from Montana around the same time
that the Battle the Little Bighorn was taking place, a
clash that saw the utter defeat of George Armstrong Custer

(14:28):
and his seventh Cavalry. Indeed, the location where Cope was
headed to was less than two are miles southeast of
the side of the battle, news which broke roughly a
month before Cope arrived in Omaha to begin his journey
further into the west. As such, at multiple stops along
the way, Cope would be warned against going any further,
but as always, he was stubborn and would not be dissuaded.

(14:50):
This despite the fear of the time being that Custer's
defeat was just a beginning and the Lakota would start
attacking settlements, potentially convincing other tribes to rise up as well,
which of course happened as the Lakota, like Sitting Bull
and Crazy Hors, had no interest in an offensive war.
They simply wanted to be left alone to live like
they had before the Americans arrived, and thus only intended

(15:11):
to fight if attacked, which is exactly what happened to Custer,
as he had invaded their territory and attack their camp.
As such, Cope would not encounter any Lakota in the
Judith River area. He and his companions, however, would encounter
some Native Americans during their investigations, but they were not
the Lakota, but their traditional enemies, the Crow. Indeed, the
Crow would approach Cope's camp not because they were hostile,

(15:34):
but because they thought Cope and as people might be
whiskey traders. Despite this case of mistaken identity, Cope made
upon of inviting the Crow to join them for breakfast,
an act which made a good impression on the Crow,
as did the fact that Cope and a dental bridge
that allowed in the takeout and replace a section of
his teeth, a trick that served to entertain an amusing
number of the visiting crow. So Cope really had no

(15:56):
need to fear an attack by hostile Native American bands
when he did have to worry about, though, was a
terrain which he intended to hunt for bones in. As
you see, the Judith River Basin was a labyrinth of bluffs, canyons, gorges,
and dangerous precipices. The land was disorienting, and there was
seemingly a constant danger of falling down into one of
the many crevices that alerted the landscape, a danger that

(16:18):
seemed especially of note given the state that Cope was
in when he headed out west for this expedition. As
you see, Charles Sternberg, the professional fossil collector that Cop
had hired to assist him in this expedition, would note
how frail and Week's employer was when he first met
him coming off a train in Omaha. Indeed, according to Sternberg,
Cope was so weak that when he got off the
train he swayed from side to side as he walked. Now,

(16:41):
Cop had always been fairly frail and delicate in constitution,
but things were especially bad now as he had not
been particularly active in the past year. He had, after all,
been preoccupied with his father's death, and thus had not
gone out into the field that year. Instead, he had
focused on desk work, examining and running about the fossils
he had collected the previous four years, while at the

(17:02):
same time also having to defend himself from accusations of
theft that had been leveled against him by none other
than O. C. Marsh. Yet, despite his initial extreme frailty,
the strain of travel and working in the field seemed
to do Cope quite a bit of good. Indeed, after
just four days of traveling in the West, Cope would
write to his wife, quote, I begin to feel like
a kipper already, noting especially how quote for the first

(17:24):
time in six months, I had an appetite for dinner,
exploring will Dallas have its usual effect on my health?
This rapid improvement continued once they reached the Judith River Basin,
as after only a few days in the field, much
to Starberg's amazement, Cope was climbing steep cliffs, engraving dangerous ledges,
noting as he observed this behavior, quote, I knew the
uselessness of trying to combat his iron will, but I

(17:47):
pleaded with him against the folly of attempted to tread
in the darkness those black and treacherous defiles, where a
single mistep meant certain death. This was in reference to
Cope's tendency to stay in the field until the veritable
last possible minute, behavior which then required him and the
men with him to make the journey back to camp
in the dark, which was a very dangerous affair, as

(18:07):
according to Starnberg, quote, he paid no attention to what
I said, but dismounting led his horse into the canyon.
He had to cut a stick to shove in front
of him, as his eyes could not penetrate the darkness
a single inch ahead. Yet even this was of limited assistance,
as quote, Sometimes we had climbed down several hundred feet,
the end of the Professor's steak would encounter only air,

(18:28):
and a handful of stones thrown ahead would be heard
to strike the earth far below. Then we had to
turn and climb back through the deep dust to the top,
all of which was only necessary because Cope was so
driven and so enjoyed the prospect of hunting for fossils
that he would not stop in time to make the
drip back to camp while there was still white out,
it asked me. Noted, though, that none of this was

(18:49):
easy on Cooper any of the others with him, as
they had the labor through the day with only what
they could carry with them to drink, as there was
simply no fresh water sources in the Madlands. Yet, while
they had to be tough on everyone, things had to
be especially rougher Cope, as by the time they finally
returned the camp and went to bed for the night,
according to Sternberg quote, the Professor would soon have a

(19:10):
severe attack of nightmare. Every animal which we had found
traces during the day, played with him at night, tossing
him into the air, kicking him and trampling upon him.
When I waked him, he would thank me cordially and
lay down to another attack. Sometimes he would lose half
the night in this exhausting summer, but the next morning
he would lead the party and be the last to
give up at night. With this, I think you get

(19:32):
a glimpse into the fact that Sternberg actually came to
care for Copen as well being and indeed theirs was
a relationship that would last until Cope's eventual death in
eighteen ninety seven. The pair had first become acquainted when
Cope had hired Sternberg to work in the Kansas Fossil
fields as an attempt to match Marsha's efforts in that area.
To be clear, Sternberg was the most obvious choice for

(19:53):
such a mission, as he was wholly untested in such
a role. Indeed, the twenty six year old, before going
to Cope, had tried and failed to get a spot
on an expedition that was being organized by Marsha's man
in the area, Mudge. Despite this rejection, Starberg remained determined,
and so he wrote to Cope telling him all about
his self ReScience and his profound desire to undertake a

(20:13):
fossil hunting expedition, even though he personally lacked the money
to fund one himself. Cope was impressed by the young
man's ambition, and so he gave Starnberg the opportunity to
prove himself, as he wrote back, quote I like your style,
get the work. Also accompanying this missive was three hundred dollars,
with which Starburg reduced to organize his expedition. His work

(20:33):
in Kansas would prove Starboard to be quite the dedicated
and adept fossil hunter. However, despite working himself sick, Starberg
still would not have the same success as a more
experienced mudge in the competitive Kansas fossil fields. It was
at this point, though, that Cope decided to shift his
attention further west of Montana and the Judith Badlands, which
were just littered with dinosaur bones. Unfortunately, though, the nature

(20:55):
of the region made it so that said bones were
often broken and scattered. As such, complete skulls, much less
complete skeletons, were exceedingly rare. The thing was, Cope was
still especially skilled at piecing together and describing sunch fragmentary remains.
Also of note, it was here in these bad lands
that Cope helped a pioneer the process that is still
used today to preserve fossilized bones to prevent them from breaking.

(21:18):
As you see, the fossils here were particularly fragile, so
Cope and his team developed a system of covering the
fossils in cloth that had been sold in rice paste,
a process which is still used today, with the exception
that the cloth is now sold in plaster instead of
rice paste. Thanks to Cope's seemingly tireless efforts and this innovation,
he and his team would find hundreds of specimens during

(21:38):
their time in the Judith River basin that represented eighteen
different species of dinosaurs, with their greatest find being the
skull of a Monoclonesus crissis, the first horned dinosaur ever discovered,
as the Monoclonesis was basically like a Triceratops type dinosaur
with only a single horn. Cope and his crew, though,
would eventually be forced to leave the region by the

(21:58):
coming winter and buy rumors a sitting bull heading in
their direction. Notably, during his trip back east on a riverboat, Coat,
much like Marsha during his initial expedition, would spot some
Lakota mortuary scaffolding along the river, from which, lack of
his rival, he also removed the skulls, again illustrating how
in many ways the two were alike. However, when the
others on the boat learned of his grave robbing, they

(22:21):
did not approve, at least in part because they feared
what might happen to them should the Lakota learn of
this desecration. As such, Cope was forced to return to
skulls from whence they had come from that whole last
section aside, the main purpose of this divergence in our
narrative was to illustrate that Cope had long been far
more curious about dinosaurs in marsh This was, of course,
at least in part because Cope was seemingly curious about everything.

(22:45):
For marsh though he had largely ignored dinosaurs until that is,
he received news of what Lakes had found, but more
importantly that Cope was potentially involved. Indeed, given the fact
that Marshad apparently ignored Lake's earlier attempts to contact him,
and it only really leapt into action upon learning that
Lakes had also contacted his rival, suggests to me that
his sudden fascination in dinosaur fossils was simply to prevent

(23:07):
Cope from getting them. That being said, the bones that
Arthur Lakes had found were unlike anything that had previously
been discovered. Sure, dinosaur bones had been encountered previously, but
these bones belonged to creatures that were far larger than
any of the dinosaurs that had previously been unearthed. In fact,
it had never even been suspected that land dwelling animals
of this size had ever existed, So, to be fair,

(23:28):
it is possible that these bones were of enough importance
to catch the Yale professor's attention on their own, even
without Cope's involvement. Regardless, Marsha's man Much would arrive from
the hills near Endavour known as the Dakota Hogbacks, on
the twenty ninth of June, an area that was notably
the home of the so called Morrison Formation where the
rocks dated back one hundred to two hundred million years,

(23:49):
thereby placing them and the bones is coming from the
middle of the Jurassic period. Mag who was described as
a quote little old gentlemen, upon arrival, quickly took charge
of these situation, and as he secured Lake's loyalty to
marsh As, he hired the teacher and preacher to work
for them, an arrangement that paid Lakes one hundred and
twenty five dollars a month throughout the summer. With this done,

(24:10):
Much then sent Marshay telegram that read, quote, have made
satisfactory arrangements for two months. Jones cannot interfere. Now you
may be wondering who was Jones and why would they
fear his interference? Well, Jones was a code name that
Martianists men had made up for Cope. Indeed, they were
so paranoid about cop. Somehow learning about their quote unquote
plans that they cooked up their own series of code

(24:32):
words to thwart any attempts to spy on them. For
an example of their code, ammunition was their word for money,
while health actually met luck and b Jones was their
stand in for Cope. Doing all this, mind you, despite
the fact that as far as I know, they were
the only ones who had tried to spy and sabotage anyone.
They were, after all, the ones whould actively work to

(24:53):
keep abreast of anything that Cope was doing, and had
even gone so far to place misleading fossils in an
area where they knew he would search. Now on further inspection,
I can't tell if this is nothing more than just
box standard projection, or if the silly code business was
somehow inspired by the time before the feud really kicked
off that Cope happened to receive fossils meant from Marsh

(25:13):
that had been sent by doctor Newberry, as I can
see Marsh convincing himself that Cope had actually orchestrated the
mix up by somehow intercepting his communications. Regardless, Now that
marshould managed to secure Lakes and by extension his fines,
he quickly dispatched his most trusted Aid to Philadelphia to
collect the bones that Lakes had previously sent to Cope,

(25:33):
as they were quote now the property of Yale College,
which was surely a frustrating development for Cope, who had
already begun examining the bones he had been sent and
had even started writing a paper on them for the
American Philosophical Society that he was now forced to withdraw. Meanwhile,
Marsh was trumpeting his victory in the pages of the
American Journal of Science with an article titled quote notice

(25:55):
of a new and gigantic dinosaur. In this article, Marsh
would name this creature Titanosaurus, as he declared excitedly, quote,
the Museum of Yale College has recently received from the
Cretaceous deposits of Colorado a collection of reptilian remains a
much interest. Among these specimens are portions of an enormous
dinosaur which surpasses in magnitude any land animal hitherto discovered. Indeed,

(26:19):
as I previously mentioned, it had never been conceived that
land animals could grow this large. Lakes, then, you see,
had stumbled upon the first example of sauropods, the extremely large,
four legged dinosaurs that typically had long necks and tails,
some of which could stretch for over one hundred feet long.
In fact, even as Marsh was writing his article, more
fossils were being pulled out of the rocks of Colorado Fossils,

(26:41):
which included the remains of a dinosaur that was even
larger than the ones that had already found, which Marsh
would name the Apatosaurus. That being said, the work was
not easy. As you see, there was an exceedingly hard
sandstone cap covering the formation where the bones were held.
In response to this difficulty, Munch employeed gunpowder to try
and break through the sandstone, doing so even though it

(27:03):
was well known at this point just how extremely brittle
the bones were. As such, they were actively risk and
destroying the bones in their haste to get to them. Plus,
in addition to the hard sandstone cap, the bones are
also often found embedded in steep hillsides that, as Marsha's
workers attempted to dig them up, regularly caused dangerous slides
and cavens. Meanwhile, despite Marsha's apparent victory and claiming the

(27:25):
fossil fields and the Dakota hogbacks for himself, word would
soon arrive that cope still had his eyes on Colorado. Indeed,
Mudge would receive word that Cope had a friend in
Denver with whom he was talking about investigating the Cannon
City region, which I have to note, illustrates how Martianists
be able, despite being the ones you feared being spied upon,
were actually the ones doing the spying. It's almost as

(27:47):
if every accusation is an omission of guilt. Strange that
seems familiar somehow. Regardless, Marsh, upon receiving this intelligence, immediately
dispatched his men Mudge to Canon City to figure out
what it. Caught CoP's attention. Back in March round about

(28:41):
the same time that Arthur Lakes was writing his first
letter to O. C. Marsh informing him of the massive
balance and found in the Dakota Honkbacks near Morrison. Over
in Canon City. O. C. Lucas, a teacher, Fremont County
Superintendent of Schools and amateur botanists, had departed that city,
heading north to Oil Creek, hoping to collect some plan
It was here that Lucas happened to find some fossil

(29:02):
fragments that he subsequently sent on to Cope, hoping that
he could identify them. Unlike Marsh with Lakes, Cope responded
promptly to Lucas and the two men would enter into
an arrangement where a Cope would purchase fossilized bones from
him at a cost of ten cents a pound. This
was quite the beneficial deal for Cope, because, as it
turned out, Lucas has stumbled upon another part of the

(29:23):
Morris information, just like Lakes had. In doing so, he
had uncovered some well preserved sauropod bones as wells jaw
of a huge carnivore. Notably, though, the formation that he
found near Canon City was much more accessible than the
one Marshi and his men were working, as there was
no hard sandstone cap and no dangerous hill sides to traverse.
The bones are simply laid out horizontally, making them much

(29:45):
easier to access. Plus, the bones near Canon City were
also in markedly better condition. It wasn't long than before
Cope had a significant find of his own that he
would write about. In August, Cope would dub as discovery
the Camerasaurus, which he described as the quote largest a
most bulky animal of progressional land of which we have
any account. Indeed, as he made sure to point out

(30:06):
in his paper the vertebrae from this piece were even
larger than the ones that he had been sent by
Professor Lakes. In other words, his dinosaur was even bigger
than Marsh's. Then, as if to take the pettiness a
step further, Cope made sure to argue that Marsha's article
from July had failed to adequately describe his find and
how it was different from previous finds. Plasi also noted

(30:27):
that Marsha's name for the fossil Titanosaurus had already been used,
something that Cope likely took quite some delight in, as
Marsh had recently pointed out that the name he had
given his eagle Clawed Terrible Lieber had also already been used.
Which is all to say that while Marsh had seemingly
won the battle to claim Lake's initial find, Cope had
still managed to outdo him, as he had still managed

(30:50):
to discover and name an even larger dinosaur. Then, to
make this victory even sweeter, Cope had also been given
the opportunity to point out his rival's mistakes March had
seemingly taken so much joy in doing to Cope over
the years. Meanwhile, the Cannon City fields had only begun
to give up their secrets, as next Lucas would send
more bones to Cope that seemed to be from an

(31:10):
even larger dinosaur that he would give the name Affacolius. Now,
of course, Marsh could not let this stand, and so
he despatches men Mudge to Canon City to scout the area.
While there, much even managed to one night gain access
to the storeroom where Lucas was preparing the bones for
shipment to Cope. The news Mudge would return with from
this trip for Marsh was not welcome, as he would

(31:32):
inform his boss that very few of the bones he
had seen were familiar, which meant that they were more
than likely from new discoveries. Equally vexing for the yoke.
Continggent was the size of the bones that were being
sent Cope's way, as Mudge would report that all the
bones he saw were ten to thirty percent larger than
Marsh's Titanosaurus. It was worse than they feared. Then, Cope
had not found just one or two dinosaurs that were

(31:54):
larger than the ones and Marsh had managed to statue
from his rival's grasp. There was arrangement with legs, he
had found a veritable treasure trove of similar fines just
waiting to be examined. As bad as all this was, though,
perhaps the most aggravating thing for marsh was the realization
that all those bones could have been his as well,
because he had for some time employed a man from

(32:15):
Canon City named David Baldwin. Indeed, Baldwin had in the
past attempted to inform marsh that it wasn't uncommon to
find such sizeable agent bones being sold in the local
curio shops, as mislabeled petrified would. Marsh though, had never
expressed any interest to Baldwin abound such fines, and thus
nothing had been done to secure them or the area.

(32:35):
Ignoring his own culpability in this failure, Marshwen actually wrote
to Baldwin, effectively scolding the other man for failing to
procure these bones for him first. Baldwin, though, wasn't having it,
as it responded to the Yale professor quote, I had
found bones in the Jurassic in several places before Lucas,
but did not dig them up on account of not
hearing from you. Man. After all, made no sense for

(32:58):
him to go through all the work of retrieving bones,
especially one so large that required even more work to
get them out of the ground and to transport them
if he wasn't confident that Marsh wanted them, and he
especially wasn't going to go out of his way in
such a manner when Marsh already wasn't paying him in
a timely manner. Yet, even though he had been been
to the punch, Marsh was not about the leave the

(33:19):
Cannon City area alone. Indeed, despite his own apparent assistance
of Chelsea Guardian area and insisting that all finds did
have belonged to the individual who first started examining it,
Marsh had Mud scout the area around Canon City for
spots to start working in. Additionally, he also had Mudge
made contact with Lucas, who was admittedly beginning to have

(33:40):
doubts about the business arrangement he had entered into with Cope.
As Lucas was starting to think that he had agreed
to sell the big bones too cheaply, Mud then looked
to weasel his way in by suggesting they could work
something out in the future for quote a little kindness
and good treatment. That being said, though Lucas was a
man of his word, and he believe that Cope had

(34:00):
bargained honestly with him, so he was going to maintain
their arrangement much though was able to convince Lucas that
his arrangement with Copu's only for the big bones, and
as such he could sell as smaller finds to Marsh. Meanwhile,
as Mudge was busy scouting the area and struggling to
find areas that Lucas was not already harvesting, Marsh dispatched
yet another of his agents, Samuel Williston, to the regent

(34:22):
to assist in these efforts. Williston had been mentored by
Mudge and had subsequently assumed his responsibilities in Kansas when
Marsh had sent the older man to Colorado, as he
now joined his former mentor, though Williston found himself similarly
frustrated by his inability to find any place rich in
quality fossils, leading him to write March quote, I am

(34:43):
very sorry to find that Cope is getting by far
the best lot of fossils. Lucas, it seemed, was quite
the capable bone hunter, and had found most of the
best spots in the area already. Granted, Marsh's agents would
still find some bones, but the fact remained that they
were nowhere near the quality of specimens or being sent
to Cope in Philadelphia. In the end, then their failure

(35:03):
to turn Lucas meant that Marsh's agents would not be
able to pry the Cannon City area away from Cope
like they had that a Coda hogbacks near Morrison by
buying Arthur Lake's loyalty. Frustrated, Marsh sent Mudge back to Kansas,
while he sent Samuel Willison to Morrison to continue the
work there with Legs, which is not to say that
all was lost, as Lakes working in Morrison would uncover

(35:25):
some very unusual fossils that looked like the ends of
spearheads and spikes, fossils that, as he pieced them together,
revealed an unusual looking dinosaur that had what appeared to
be armour plates lining its backbones and large spikes on
its tail structures, which inspired Marsh to give the creature
its name Stegosaurus. Meanwhile, for his fruitfulcy Cannon City area

(35:46):
had been, Cope was not putting all his eggs in
this one basket. As such, when he sent for his
trusted associate Charles Sternberg, telling him to leave behind his
work in Kansas. Cope did not send him to Colorado,
but to the John Day River base in Oregon. For
his part, Starnberg by this point was even more firmly
in Copes camp than he had been before. As you see,

(36:07):
since the time he was initially hired, Sternberg had only
grown closer to Cope and his family. Indeed, he had
even spent the previous winter in Philadelphia, working and rooming
in Cope's workshop, during which time Sternberg regularly attended Sunday
dinners with the Kobe family, and was also frequently invited
to the various dinner parties and luncheonds that Annie Cope's

(36:28):
wife organized for the young men who came to hear
his lectures. When not in Philadelphia with the Cobes, Sternberg
had been hunting fossils in Kansas, during which time he
had been regularly spot upon by Marsh's agent Samuel Williston.
As again, despite their fears of being spied on by Cope,
it was Marsh and his people who were actively conducting
espionage on their competitors. This included, on at least one occasion,

(36:51):
a report of everything that Sternberg was shipping to Philadelphia.
As for Cope himself, Unlike Marsh, who remained at Yale
as his army of agents collected bones for him, he
too journeyed into the West, heading for the area around Clarendon, Texas,
an area that contained fossil beds from the Pliocene, from
which he found the remains of mastodons and rhinos. However,

(37:11):
what was of greater interest whilst offect that he also
found a layer of fossils from the Permian period, something
which likely annoyed Marsh on some level, seeing as how
he had recently declared that no vertebrate remains were known
to exist in America's Permian rocks. Yet here was Cope
popping up somewhere unexpectedly, about to unleash a series of
papers on Permian vertebrates he had found in America, despite

(37:33):
his rival's proclamation otherwise, with the most notable of these
discoveries being a ten foot long reptile that had a
huge fin on its back that stood as tall as
a man, a creature that Cope named the demetrodon, and
which was particularly fascinating because this reptile seemed to share
a number of characteristics with early mammals, Now, this whole
sequence provides a perfect glimpse into just how frustrating Cope

(37:56):
had to have been to Marsh. After all, the young
professor had so many resources, in so much recognition from
his peers in the general public, and yet this annoying
nataviy man would not go away. Even when he managed
to successfully snag a fantastic cord of never before seen
massive dinosaur bones right now from underneath Cope's greedy little hands,
the other man immediately just turned around and lean claimed

(38:18):
to his own collection of dinosaur bones that rivaled, if
not exceeded, the size of the ones Marsh had stolen
from him. Then, as if that wasn't enough, he just
randomly popped up in Texas reporting he had found fossils
of permian vertebrates that Marsh had claimed simply did not exist.
Cobe would just not go away. Marsh then could never
be truly satisfied. Sure from the Morrison dig site he

(38:40):
would name such large sauropods as the Atlantosaurus, the Appetosaurus,
and the eighty foot long Diplodocus, in addition to his
fascinating Stegosaurus, the small cat sized Nanosaurus, and the large Carnivorylosaurus.
But that wasn't enough, as Cope would just not go away. Indeed,
his rival would name five new species of his own,
while also attempting to name a pair of species that,

(39:02):
as it turned out, the Martian already successfully named, including
the Alisaurus, which again illustrates one of the main consequences
of this feud, the confusion they created for other scientists
when it came to having to unravel the web of
conflicting names for these creatures. Again, though for Marsh, one
of the most frustrating things about this feud was how
little sense it made that Cope would just not go away. Marsh,

(39:25):
after all, had seen every advantage in the world. Example,
the Yale professor had a veritable army helping him with
his work. In addition to the many men he employed
across the country hunting for fossils, he also had a
number of assistants at Yale responsible for keeping records and
unpacking the treasure trove of fossils he was assembling. He
also had someone who had the responsibility of sketching illustrations

(39:47):
on the fossils, and yet another person whose job it
was to turn these illustrations into engraving plates for publishing purposes.
Then there was a person in charge of restoration, and
yet another man who was in charge of making plaster
cas cast of their most important finds. In contrast, Cope
really only had one employee, Jacob Geismar, who helped him
in his Philadelphia studio. Geismar then was in charge of

(40:09):
record keeping, unpacking, and preparing the specimens for study, while
Cope did all the more detailed work, including making his
own illustrations and analysis. With such an imbalanced and power,
it had to have been frustrating for Marsh that this
was even a feud at all. He was and particularly
annoyed when he learned that Cope purchased The American Naturalist,
a scientific journal, a move that Marsh called a swindle,

(40:32):
as he encouraged others to protest the purchase. Now, I'm
assuming his issue was with the idea of a scientist
owning a scientific journal would compromise the integrity of the
publication as it would favor his theories in his publications
over his rivals, which was a bit of a hypocritical
stance considering Marsh's close ties with the founder of the
American Journal of Science. Fellow Yaleman Benjamin Seliman. Indeed, it

(40:55):
was apparently this cozy little relationship that had inspired Cope
to purchase the American Naturalist in the first place. Marsh, meanwhile,
after being out maneuvered in Canon City, was now leaving
at every account of a discovery of large bones that
came his way. There was no more ignoring reports of
fines that crossed his desk, and no more taking weeks
to months to respond. For example, when two fossil collectors

(41:17):
reached out to him about having found some large bones
in Como Bluff, Wyoming, Marsh moved swiftly to put them
on his payroll and to most importantly keep things secret
from Cope. Once again, things had started with a letter,
this time coming from two men who identified them sauce
as Harlow and Edwards. These men claimed to have found
a large number of fossils, including a shorder blade measuring

(41:38):
four feet eight inches in length and a vertebrae measuring
two and a half feet in circumference and ten inches long.
According to Harlow and Edwards quote, we are desirous of
disposing of what fossils we have and also the secret
of the others we are working men and not able
to present them as a gift, and if we can
sell the secret of the fossil bed at procure work
in excavating others, we would like to do so. The

(42:01):
days of Joseph Leedy, where he would just be sent
fossils to examine, were now dead and gone. These men
recognized that there was likely money to be made from
what they had found, and so they wanted to be paid. Indeed,
the end of their letter would make this abundantly clear,
as they concluded, quote, we will be pleased to hear
from you, as you are well known as an enthusiastic
geologist and a man of means, both of which we

(42:23):
are desirous of finding more, especially in the latter. For
his part, after nearly missing out on Lake's discovery, and
after missing out on the Cannon City fields, Marsh now
left at this opportunity. That being said, Marsh was not
a stupid man, and had Harlow and Edwards sent him
several crates full of the bones they had already discovered
as proof that they weren't trying to scam him. Createsid

(42:46):
did contain several large vertebrae, leg and shoulder bones as
well as pieces of claws and teeth, all of which
clearly belonged to large dinosaurs of some sort. With proof
that they had obviously found something, and another letter in
which Harlow and Edwards claimed to have another fifteen hundred
pounds of bones, Marsh mailed them a check for seventy
five dollars, along with instructions on how they were to

(43:06):
start collecting the other bones they had discovered. Everything seemed
to be going swimmingly. Yet the next letter that Marsh
received from the two men identifying themselves as Harlow and
Edwards was both confusing and concerning. The pair would start
things off by informing the Yelle professor that, for some
unexplained reason, they were unable to catch his seventy five
dollars check. This was odd, but what was truly concerning

(43:28):
was their admission that quote, we are keeping our shipments
of fossils to you as secret as possible, as there
are plenty of men looking for such things, and if
they could trace us, they could find discoveries we have
already made and which we have no desire to have known.
Marsh obviously did not like the sound of others poking
around the area, as he, like always wanted only fossils

(43:49):
for himself. Marshton dispatched one of his agents, the afore
mentioned Samuel Willison Ducomo plus Wyoming, although he was careful
to use their code word for Wyoming Oregon in his
instruction out of fear that Cope might be spying on
them like they spied on him. When Willison arrived, he
quickly learned why the two men Marsha been communicating with
could not catch the seventy five dollars check as Martian

(44:11):
made the checkout to Harlowe and Edwards, whose real names
were actually William Edward Carlin and William Harlowe Reid. Carlin
was the local station agent for the Union Pacific, while
Reid had, followed his wife's death in eighteen seventy one,
just kind of taken to roaming about the Western territories
for a while, during which time he took out Burke
as a scout hunter and guide before eventually landing a

(44:33):
job with the Union Pacific as a section boss, meaning
it was his responsibility to keep the tracks in his
area repaired and in good order, and it was as
a part of this work that he had first discovered
the fossils fake names Assigne. Samuel Wilson would confirm the
presence of dinosaur fossils in the region that were, in
his estimation quote magnificently preserved and scattered for six or

(44:54):
seven miles. In fact, Como bloss was likely the richest
find of dinosaur bones that had been discovered at that time. Time.
Willison then offered to pay the two men seventy five
dollars a month to hunt fossils. Carlin, though, wanted to
negotiate directly with Marsh. As again, the two railroad men
recognized that the bones they had found were worth money,
which they definitely were now thanks largely to Marsh's own actions. Eventually,

(45:18):
marsh would write up a three page agreement with the
two men in which he agreed to pay them ninety
dollars a month, with a potential bonus that was quote
proportionate to the importance of any new fossil found during
the work. Notably, these negotiations had not been easy and
thus had left sore feelings on the side of Carlin
and Red. The moon then was not improved when they,
at Marsha's insistence, continued to work through the harsh, wyoming winter.

(45:42):
Their discomfort, however, mattered little to Marsh, as the Como
Blaf fossil fields were indeed a major find. The area
u see presented a buffet of possibilities for dinosaur bones,
as it had sentimentary deposits from the Triassic, Jurassic, and
Cretaceous periods, which of course were the three major time
periods where dinosaurs had to existed. Frustratingly, though, one of

(46:02):
the first specimens that Marsh would identify from this region
and name, the Morrosaurus, had actually already been discovered and
named by Copeleague Camerasaurus. Regardless, Carlin and Reid would continue
to send them boxes and boxes of quality specimens, among
which were the skeleton of the already discovered Alisaurus, as
well as some previously undiscovered finds, among which with the

(46:22):
onest mammal remains ever discovered on the North American continent,
which belonged to an opossum sized creature that had lived
during the Jurassic. Yet this, apparently stone wasn't good enough
for Marsh, as read after several months of working for
the Yale Palaeontologists would write to him, quote, I should
be glad when you get your men here, as you
seem to doubt everything we do, and I do not

(46:42):
like it. Marsh was apparently constantly questioning their work, which
would have been beat enough on its own, but it
seems that he was also consistently late with their pay,
something which seems to be a bit of a running
theme when it comes to Marsh. Regarding the situation, Carlin
would write Marsh at one point, quote I have been
looking Ford for a letter containing remittance as a wages

(47:02):
to a month ago, but I have been, for some
reason disappointed. This, he continued, was a particularly unfair situation
because quote, we are shipping bones as fast as we
can get them for what money we make, and should
receive our wages properly win due. Meanwhile, as much as
Marsh wanted to keep this treasure shrove secret, and strove
to do just that, Cope and others would still learn

(47:25):
of its existence. Indeed, months before and Marsh was ever
contacted by Carlin and Reid, a miner who had been
working in the area had uncovered some fossilized vertebrae, which
he had then sent the lawn to the Smithsonian. Upon
receiving these bones, Spencer Baird of the Smithsonian reached out
and consulted with Cope, who subsequently made contact with the minor,
informing him of his desire to acquire additional fossils of

(47:46):
this type. Now I'm not clear to the degree which
marsh was aware that word of the Como BLUs discovery
had leaked out to his hated rival. Still, though his
men in the field had orders to be on the
lookout for suspicious characters taking too much interest in the air,
their proverbial alarm bells were then sent off when a
man calling himself Haines arrived in the region, claiming to
be a seller of groceries. Marsha's man, Frank Williston, Samuel's brother,

(48:10):
who had been dispatched to oversee the work, would become suspicious. However,
when Haines started asking questions about fossils being found in
the area. Indeed, Frank would be convinced that there was
quote no doubt, but that he is direct from Cope.
There is no man in America that knows as much
about fossils outside of our museum. Marshton had seemed to
installed a paranoia of Cope in all who worked for him. Cope,

(48:33):
it seems in their world was this evil mastermind straight
out of comics that didn't even exist yet. Yet, for
all their suspicions, Haines, whoever he might have been, was
gone within two weeks of his arrival, never to be
seen in Como blufs again. Meanwhile, Marsh was creating trouble
for himself without any interference from Cope, as after months
of nonpayment, both Carlin and Reid were seriously tired of

(48:55):
Marsh and of each other, as Reed didn't feel like
Carlin was carrying his part of the load, while while
Carlin was sick of dealing with Reid and not being
paid by Marsh, so he opted to become a freelance
bone hunter, open to working for anyone like, say, for example,
Marsh's hated rival, Edward Drinker Cobbe, who it seems, had
named eight new dinosaur species during the course of eighteen

(49:15):
seventy eight, while Marsha managed to best him by naming ten. Now,
not all these would stick when all was said and done,
but in terms of their personal rivalry at this point,
Cope still had more new species names to his credit,
but Marsh, thanks to his expanding network of bone hunters,
and multiple rid signs was catching up even as he
continued to work at a slower pace. Eighteen seventy nine

(49:37):
then saw both Reading Carlin going back to work in
the Como bloss area, but it was clear that their
partnership was now over, as Carlin more or less forbade
Read from using the railroad station's freight room to store
and prepare fossils in as he locked it in tone
Read that if he wanted access to it, he was
going to have to deal with him as such. While
Carlin would continue to store and pack of fossils in

(49:58):
the storage room, Read was forced to do that work
outside in the cold, which obviously means that Carlin was
working as a bone hunter for some other concerned party. Indeed,
Reid would confirm Marsh's greatest fears as he informed the
Yale professor that his former partner was now working for COPE.
In fact, a Cornder Reid Carlin was in communication with

(50:18):
COPE on a daily basis as he made regular trips
out into the fossil rich Hills. As a Cornder Reid quote,
I don't know what he is getting, but he brings
a good deal of stuff to the station. Indeed, it
seems that thanks to Cope paying Carlin one hundred and
thirty dollars a month, Marsh's former employee had been able
to quit working for the railroad and thus dedicate all

(50:38):
his time to hunting fossils, which was bad enough, But
what was equally troubling whilst the fact that Carlin did
not seem to be visiting any of their old quarries,
which suggested that he had found something new and that Cope,
not in Marsh, was going to be the beneficiary. In
response to this defection, Marsh ordered Reid to close down
quarry number four and to focus primarily on the Richard

(51:00):
quarries one in three. This move would guarantee that Marsh
would monopolize to the richest fossil fields they had found
in the area. That, however, was not enough, as in
addition to abandon and quary number four, Marsh also ordered
his men to actually destroy the fossils there, just to
ensure that Cope would not get his hands on them.
This also apparently wasn't the only time that Marsh had

(51:20):
ordered such an action, as Frank Williston, after his eventual
split with Marsh, would confess as much to Cope, writing quote,
Professor Marsh did once indirectly request me to destroy Kansas
fossils rather than let them fall into your hands. It
is necessary for me to say I only despised him
for it. Meanwhile, Carlin was not the only bonehunter operating

(51:41):
in the Como Hills, not in the employee of OC Marsh.
For example, the miner who had previously sent bones to
the Smithsonian now returned to the region in the company
of another man. Yet, even though this miner wasn't apparently
working for Cope, Reedstall actively worked against this potential competitor.
For example, when the miner and his companion may clear
their intention to work in one of the quarries, Reid

(52:01):
spent four days filling in the area with so much
dirt that he didn't think the others would be willing
to dig it all out. With the cat clearly being
out of the back and cerning Como Bluffs, Marsh sent
for Arthur Lakes, ordering him to leave behind the Colorado
Dick sites to lend a hand working here in Wyoming.
As the months passed, though, much like Greed and Carlin had,
Reid and Lynx would have a falling out. Reed you

(52:23):
see apparently couldn't stand the Oxford educated Englishmen or what
he considered to be as haughty ways, as he claimed
that Legs acted like he was far superior to others,
which may have been the case. However, it has to
be said that over the coming months and years, Reid
would have issues with every man he worked beside. Indeed,
each time this happened, Reid would try to resign, and

(52:44):
each time Marsh would attempt to solve the issue by
having the two quarreling individuals work separately. From then on
these issues aside, it seems as if Marsh's efforts to
monopolize the best sites in the region while sabotaging other
locations were working as Cope and others seemingly abandoned efforts
to try and make their own discoveries in the Como Hills. Yet,
just as it seemed that he had won the man

(53:06):
he'd more or less put in charge of the efforts there,
Frank Williston would quit after being unable to deal with Reid,
who accused him of theft and quote many other absurd suppositions. Frank, then,
having had enough of Reed, resigned and ended up bucking
with another man who knew what he was going through.
Having worked for Marsha with Reid William Carlin, it wasn't
long than before Frank Williston was working for COPD at

(53:27):
one hundred and fifty dollars a month, a turn of
events that was extremely alarming to Marsh, who frantically started
ordering his remaining men to protect his most valuable sites.
The problem was, while it had not been all that
long ago that Martian five men working for him in
the Como Bluffs, fee of those men, including Frank, had
all quit, leaving Marsh with those two men to try
and protect his fossils. As a result, Cope soon had

(53:51):
men working in the region again, as would Harvard's professor
Alexander Agassi. Despite this competition, though the Como Bluffs would
continue to provide a treacher trova fossils from Marsh, as
he would continue to operate quarries there until eighteen eighty nine.
In doing so, the young professor would pay Read and
his men over eight thousand dollars, although to be clear,

(54:11):
it was apparently a constant struggle to get Marsh to
pay them as promised. Indeed, once Reid even had to
beg Marsh for his check, so he could buy Christmas turkey. Eventually, though,
even Reid had enough, and in eighteen eighty three he
quit to take up sheep herding, at which point Marsh's
lacks management led to even more fights between the various
bone hunters he had working in the area. This included

(54:34):
one incident where one of Marsh's workers, a man named Brown,
while wielding a pair of pistols, apparently assaulted one of
his co workers, demanding that the two of them fight.
In response to the other man, fearing for his safety
and that of his family, decided to leave the Como
Bluff behind. It was then, thanks at least in part
to this situation and others like it, that fewer and

(54:54):
fewer fines were made. Which is all to say that
for all of Marsha's worries about others under money him
a paranoia that resulted in the destruction of an unknown
number of fossils, it was his own management practices and
his own men that ultimately brought an end to his
efforts in the region. The next phase of the Cope

(55:45):
and Marsh feud would not be kicked off by the
discovery of some new bonefield in the west, but by
the death of one of the nation's most respected scientists,
Joseph Henry. Henry, who died in May eighteen seventy eight
of a liver infection, was both the president of the
National Academy of Yins and the Secretary of the Smithsonian.
The death of Joseph Henry then was a significant loss

(56:05):
in the American scientific community, and it seemed to pretend
the passing of an era. Practically, though, Henry's positions needed
to be filled. When it came to his role as
the Secretary of the Smithsonian, the most likely candidate was
Spencer Baird. Now I've mentioned Bard a time or two
before this, but in addition to those prior appearances on
our tail, Baird had gotten caught up in the Cope

(56:26):
and marsh feudal multiple occasions. For example, once Bard had
to defend himself from Marsha's suspicions when the Yale professor
learned that Copad apparently sent Bard a manuscript. This incident
was important because Baird couldn't exactly risk offending Marsh. As
you see, the Smithsonian on my gail did not have
the money to fund large scale expeditions. In fact, at

(56:48):
one point it didn't even have twenty bucks to purchase
a Tapier skeleton, while Martia and Nille could make such
acquisitions without a second thought. Indeed, when Baird had written
to Marsh about the Smithsonian's desire but in a bill
to purchase said Tapier skeleton, Marsh responded by purchasing it
and sending it on to the Smithsonian. He also at
times sent to the Institution any duplicate fossils that were

(57:10):
brought back by his expeditions, provided, of course, that they
weren't new discoveries that he had not yet had the
ability to study and write about. Yet, while such acts
may appear generous on the surface, there was always the constant,
if unspoken threat that Marsh could simply stop making such
donations and the Smithsonian would be left without a collection
of any kind. On the other side of the field,

(57:31):
it seemed that Beard had a relatively good relationship with Cope.
After all, when the miner had sent some mysterious fossils
from the Como bloss area, it was Cope whom Baird
had reached out to for his expertise on the subject. Plus,
if Cope is to be believed, Baird had at one
point informed him that if someone had to replace Henry
as a Secretary of the Smithsonian, he would like it

(57:51):
to be Cope, or at least that's what Cope wrote
to his wife. So Cope had some hope that he
may be appointed to the position. At the same time,
though he he very much feared that his ongoing issues
with Marsh would hurt his chances to be appointed to
such a respected position, which may or may not have
been the case, as Cope would not in fact be
one of the men considered for the job. Instead, Baird

(58:13):
would be unanimously chosen. That being said, Cope's interest in
a position that could give him significant standing and respect
among America's scientific community feels telling, as if he was
hoping to match Marsh's growing pre eminence. As for Baird,
he would show that he was an excellent choice as
he went on to secure funding from Congress to begin
building an actual national museum, funding that his predecessor had

(58:36):
never even attempted to burke here out of fear of
provoking politicians who often did not look too fondly on
science or the institution. Now that he had Congressional approval
for funding, though, Baird had to increasingly be on the
lookout for opportunities to acquire specimens to fill his museum with,
which effectively drove him closer into Marsh's orbit, as Yale

(58:56):
held the greatest collection of fossils in the nation. As
for heads on their prominent role as the president of
the National Academy of Sciences, while that responsibility had fallen
to Marsh, who, despite only being a member of the
organization for the last four years, was named its interim president,
a position that would only become even more important thanks
to the fact than after scandal after scandal involving the

(59:18):
Grand Administration, reform was the new theme in Washington under
the recently elected Rutherford B. Hayes. This notably included reforming
the public land administration. As you see, the question of
how to best handle the lands west of the Mississippi
was still very much an issue. For one thing, the
actual makeup of those lands was still relatively unknown. To

(59:38):
try and clear this up, there had been a series
of ongoing but disconnected surveys of that country. Surveys like
the once at Covid periodically been attated to. Meanwhile, large
sections of the western territories were being swallowed up by
large landholders banks and corporations, oftentimes through various forms of
graft and corruption. Therefore, to better divide up and distribute

(59:58):
the land that had been stolen from its original inhabitants,
there was a push to merged together and reform the
desperate surveys. As you see, having multiple surveys operating independent
of one another was both expensive and inefficient. These surveys,
you see, were often lack of Martian cope in competition
with one another. This lack of cooperation then led to
situations like Colorado being mapped by two separate surveys, which

(01:00:22):
was not only a waste of money and resources, but
also a potential source of confusion as it left some
mounds with two names. In the midst of this push
for reorganizing the method in which the Western territories were surveyed,
a member of the House of Representatives, who was also
friends with marsh would suggest that the National Academy of
Sciences should have a say in how all future surveys

(01:00:43):
would be conducted, a suggestion which effectively meant that the
future of these government funded surveys, who would run them
and who would benefit from them would be in the
hands of none other than O. C. Marsh, who was
serving as the head of the National Academy of Sciences.
Having a say over how these surveys would be organized
would then give the person doing it quite a bit
of power and influence, something that Marsh very much recognized. Indeed,

(01:01:06):
these surveys had been critical in aiding in the collection
of fossils and publishing paleontological papers. For example, Cope, before
receiving his inheritance, had taken part in several of these surveys. Meanwhile,
another survey had been responsible for publishing several of Marsh's
most important papers, like his one on birds with teeth,
while yet still on another survey and made upon as

(01:01:27):
sending all of its fossils to the Yale Paleontologist. By
being in charge of how these surveys would function, now
Marsh potentially had the power to ensure that he and
those he chose would benefit from these arrangements while anyone
else would be cut out. Indeed, part of Marsh's consolidation
plan was to have any fossils found during such expeditions
to become the property of the National Museum, regardless of

(01:01:50):
whether or not the scientists accompanying the expedition was funding
their own where or not, a move that feels explicitly
targeted at Cobe. I mean, sure Marsh wouldn't beginning these
esmens either, but it might have been enough to deny Cope.
I could even see Marsh hoping that this would discourage
Cope from making future expeditions, thus leaving Marsh and his
agents even more opportunities. Then, on top of all of that,

(01:02:12):
Marsh worked to get his friend Clarence King named the
director of the newly formed US Geological Survey. Now King
would eventually resign from the position, intent on using the
knowledge he had gained from the surveys to start up
a mining company, But even then Marsh was still well positioned,
as when King's replacement, John Wesley Powell, reorganized the government
surveys by discipline ie geology and topography. He also created

(01:02:36):
a division for paleontology, a division that then required someone
to lead it, and Marsh was the man he wanted,
as really the only other choice was Cope, who was
seen as too much of a lone wolf to work
well in such a situation. Marsh, though, was reluctant, as
by the rules he himself had written, he would not
be able to claim any of the fossils they gathered,
as they were all to be sent to the Smithsonian.

(01:02:57):
Determined to get his man, then Powell and Marsh came
to a so called gentleman's agreement, the details of which
are unknown, but which more than likely gave Marsh the
ability to keep ownership of certain important fossils. With this
agreement in place, this proved to be quite a good
arrangement for Marsh, as Powell would progressively increase the survey's
budget money than Marsh then used to employ staff around

(01:03:19):
about eighteen men, some of whom worked in the field
collecting fossils, and some of whom worked in the basement
of his Peabody Museum, a staff that Marsh would likely
have to otherwise had to pay for himself. Thanks to
this government funding, then Marsh was able to assemble a
paleontology lab that was essentially second to none in the world.
As you see, thanks to the determination of his bone

(01:03:39):
collectors in the West, Marsh and by extension, Neale, had
a virtually unrivaled collectional fossils. Combined that fact with his
ties to Yale and now as funding from the government,
and Marsh was able to attract the best and brightest
young scientist in the country to serve on his staff,
although how long any of these brilliant young minds were
able to actually put up with Marsh was a different
story regardless, though, this arrangement would enable Marsh to publish

(01:04:03):
three massive tomes between eighteen eighty five and eighteen ninety
six at the government's expense. All the while, they also
gave him the resources with which to publish his papers,
something that Cope was not able to do. Marsh then
was able to fund a sizable staff in his museum
while also having a veritable army of men working to
secure eavy fossil possible in the West, and still lived

(01:04:23):
the life of a rich man because he did not
have to dedicate much of any of his personal wealth
to his professional pursuits. As you see, Marsh, in addition
to living an insizable mansion that was filled with various
artifacts and art pieces, was also a member of multiple
prominent clubs like For example, he was a member of
the exclusive fourteen member round Table club that gathered monthly

(01:04:44):
to donn at Delmonico's in New York. In contrast, Cope
was not living anywhere near as high on the hog
as his rival was, as despite the significant financial resources
he had received from his father, he was by this
point starting to worry about his cash flow. It was,
after all, quite expensive to fund multiple fossil hunting groups
with his own money, all the while continuing to fund

(01:05:05):
the American Naturalist and also operating a lab slash workshop
where he examined and documented the fossils he had found. Indeed,
in just ten years he had spent some seventy five
thousand dollars on the varius parts of his fossil collecting, plus,
unlike Marsha, as we noted, likely wasn't paying for that
out of his own pocket anyway. Cope also had to
provide for his wife, Annie and their daughter Julia, who

(01:05:26):
was by this point approaching college age. Indeed, the by
now fifteen year old girl was becoming her father's intellectual
sounding board and confidant. Cope in fact, had taken to
encouraging Julia to study chemistry, math, and physics in addition
to her habit of collecting stakes on their summer vacations. Cope,
then land Clarence King, hoped to utilize his knowledge in
the West NS geology to smartly invest in minds. This was,

(01:05:50):
of course, easier said than done, especially since this Skilded Age,
much like the one we live in now, was the
playground of scam artists and con men. This was an
especially dangerous minefield for Cope to wander into, as he
had the unfortunate character trade of actually believing in people.
As such, he accepted a number of individuals at their
word concerning the rich prospects of their mining operations and

(01:06:12):
thus invested in them. In eighteen eighty one, for example,
Cope was looking to replenish his fortune, turned his attention
to the Lake Valley in New Mexico, as he invested
in the Sierra Mining Company that ran a number of
mines in that area. Now, Cope was not alone in this,
as many an Eastern investor would place their money in
the various mining concerns that were operating out of the
American Southwest. The problem was that area wasn't particularly rich

(01:06:36):
and precious minerals, so while a handful of ridge sites
had been found in the region, they were far from typical.
Those handful of sites, though, led to over investment, which
included the construction of expensive mills and smelters in anticipation
of more rich finds that largely went to waste when
no such locales were found. This was also not the
best area to invest in, considering that the Apache War

(01:06:59):
was restilled very much taking place, with the Leaxa Geronimo
and relatives of coaches effectively running circles around the American
military during this time. For more information, see my series
on those conflicts. What was worse, though, was that Cope
did not perceive these various warning signs as such, as
you see, when he started taking losses, he responded not
by pulling out and preserving one wealthy had left, but

(01:07:22):
instead by investing even more money, doing so in part
because he was sure that his intellect and knowledge of
geology would allow him to make money by investing in minds.
In fact, he would even take out a ten thousand
dollars mortgage on the two townhouses he owned in Philadelphia,
one of which being his workshop and the other being
his family's home, doing so to fund even more investments

(01:07:43):
into mines in the Southwest. Meanwhile, even as he was
losing money hand over fists thanks to poor investments, Cope
would finish a project he had been working on for
some time the Verbrata of tertiary Formations of the West,
which would be dubbed Cope's Bible, was a tone that
Cope had been a work on for ten years. Was
an exhaustive piece of work in which he would describe

(01:08:03):
some three hundred and fifty different species. That being said,
it was only the first of three books that Cope
intended to publish through the Geological Survey, in which he
would detail and put into context the various fossils he
had found over the years, which certainly sells that this
project would be an invaluable resource to future scientists. However,
the sheer size in the first volume, which consisted of

(01:08:25):
over a thousand pages of text and one hundred and
thirty four lithographic plates, which resulted in the book itself
being a foot thick and weighing fifteen pounds, brought pressure
from the Geological Survey to scale back subsequent publications, like,
for example, limiting them to just five hundred pages, something
which Cope was loath to do. Such concerns, however, increasingly

(01:08:46):
went on the back burner as Cope was forced to
try and deal with his mounting financial issues and could
thus no longer dedicate his time and money to the
pursuit of fossils and writing about them. Indeed, he even
began exploring options for selling parts of his fossil collection,
a turn of events that likely greatly pleased Marsh, especially
since thanks to his resources from mail and his new

(01:09:07):
arrangement with the federal government, he had been able to
retain much of his own personal wealth. That being said,
even though he had the chance to now run up
the score on his rival, Marsha's production also slowed down.
This despite the fact that his workers continued to honor
literal tons of bones, including those of the first triceratops
fossils ever discovered. Now, there were multiple reasons why Marsh's

(01:09:29):
publications thlowed to a crawl. For one, not only was
he overly deliberate in his work, but he was also
a major procrastinator. It seemed then that with his rival
all but out of the game, Marsh didn't feel the
same pressure to publish as he once had. Plus, he
was also often consumed with other duties involving the Peabody,
or with other activities outside of his work, like, for example,

(01:09:51):
spending time in New York's upper class smoking clubs, or
dining at Delmonico's. Indeed, Samuel Williston, who after his time
working as an assistant from Marsh, would eventually become the
head of paleontology at the University of Chicago, would note
that quote. During most of my time in his employee,
I never knew him to do to consecutive honest day's
work in science. It also didn't help matters that Marsh's

(01:10:14):
consent on ending desire for all the fossils was resulting
in the Yale palaeontologists being overwhelmed by having simply too
much to make sense of. Dinosaurs were especially vexing, as
with each new discovery they became more complex and harder
to understand. Some were huge, some were tiny, Some maked
on two legs, others on four, and some even had

(01:10:35):
armor plating. Such variety, while fascinating. May tried to make
sense these creatures so as to grouping classify them in
some magical way, a daunting task, a problem that only
seemed to multiply thanks to all the new discoveries that
were regularly pouring into the Peabody Museum. Now, Marsh would
come up with a rough system of organizing dinosaurs, but
it would be a friend of Cope's, Englishman Harry Grovier Seeley,

(01:10:58):
who would really provide the film dation for making sense
and classifying the wide array of dinosaurs that had been discovered,
with the key being first dividing them into two distinct
groups based upon their hips, as some dinosaurs had hip
bones similar to those of birds, while others had hip
bones more similar to those of reptiles. It was then
under these two main groups that dinosaurs would be further

(01:11:19):
divided using the rough groupings that Marsh had come up with. However,
that would take years, and until that time, Martians staff
would be overwhelmed by the flood of bones that were
filling up the Peabody Museum's basement. Now it may seem

(01:12:04):
like the feud between O. C. Marsh and Edward Riker
Cope was all but over after roll. Cope, through a
combination of his desire to compete with Marsh and his
own poor decisions when it came to his finances, was
all but down for the count, while Marsh, thanks to
his connections with Yale and now with the federal government,
was basically triumphant and virtually unrivaled in the field. Appearances, though,

(01:12:25):
were deceiving, as the feud was about to enter a
new and potentially uglier phase, as, even though they were
not competing in the same manner they had previously, the
sore feelings that had been simmering for years had seemingly
developed into outright hatred. This new phase in the feud
would manifest as Congress started questioning the government's investment in science,
a crusade led at least in part by Alabama Congressman

(01:12:48):
Hillary Herbert. Herbert Jucy took up this crusade as not
only did he have a low opinion of science, but
since he had served as a colonel in the Confederate Army,
he also had a deep distrust for the federal government.
Herbert then wanted to purge the federal government of science completely,
which meant that not only would no more federal money
be spent on science of any kind, but that any

(01:13:08):
federal facilities that supported the sciences should be sold off.
Now you would think that such an anti science figure
would not find an ally and word trigger Cope, a
man who had loved science and learning ever since he
was a child. The thing was, though, Cope saw this
Congressional inquiry as a tool which he could use against Marsh.
Cope and his zeal then even actively a little to

(01:13:29):
further assist this campaign by searching for people who would
be willing to testify against Marsh, doing so even as
the likes of Joseph Leedy trying to talk Comee down,
as he likely sensed the dangers inherent in such an
anti science campaign. Cope, however, was apparently too far gone
at this point, and so he produced a twenty three
hundred word document that primarily attacked Marsh's role in the

(01:13:52):
Geological Survey, a statement that then provided Herbert with ammunition
that he could use against the Survey in general, and
not just Marsh. This was really not a good idea
for multiple reasons, as you see. In addition to just
the general rule of how bad it is to sign
with such anti science types, there was also the fact
that by trying to take down Marsh, Cope was also

(01:14:12):
helping to potentially eliminate the funding for the same organization
that he was trying to convince to publish the next
two volumes of his grand work. Cope's hatred for Marsh
then was really starting to blind him to the consequences
of his actions. Now Cope was not alone in choosing
to work with Herbert, as also assisting in this campaign
to stop the government from funding science was none other

(01:14:33):
than Alexander Agassi. Agassy, though, had his own motivations, as
he took up a Lasez fair capitalistic stance concerning scientific funding,
as he argued that the government shouldn't be worried about
funding these sciences and instead leave it up to private interests,
something which the independently wealthy Agasy would say, especially since
Harvard's Museum of Comparative Zoology that he was the curator

(01:14:56):
of faced potential competition from the Smithsonian thus would benefit
him and his institution should the government stop funding the Smithsonian.
At the same time, it also has to be noted
that Agassy didn't seem to hold the same attitude when
it came to his chosen field of marine biology, as
he very much supported the continued funding of the Coastal Survey,

(01:15:17):
even as he criticized the Geological Survey as being wasteful.
That all being said, when the head of the Geological Survey,
John Wesley Powell, was called upon to testify before Congress,
he more than ably defended himself and his survey, as
while sure some of the costs were higher than anticipated,
he was still able to account for every dollar that
was spent, and thus showed that he had not been

(01:15:39):
stealing money from the government, as he had been accused
of doing. Powell also wisely made upon of targeting the
wealthy Agassy, who he informed Congress was trying to use
his personal wealth to turn Harvard's Museum into America's Center
for Scientific Research. However, as Powell pointed out, Agassi, as
rich as he was, still could not match these kinds

(01:15:59):
of things that the government was achieving. This was because
its power, would argue, quote eight hundred millionaires could not
do the work in scientific research now done by the
general government. Plus even if they could, it was ridiculous
to haunt scientific research and progress, and total the likes
of Agacy managed to inspire quote eight hundred millionaires to
engage in like good works. Furthermore, it wasn't like the

(01:16:22):
science funded by the government provided no public benefit. All
this research that they were suggesting should be handed off
to private concerns was the kind of stuff that should
be handed over to public libraries for the public to
consume for free, rather than being restricted and hidden away
in the publications of private scientific societies and museums. Now Predictably,

(01:16:42):
Herbert was unmoved by such arguments, as he pressed to
have the Geological Survey limited to just publishing a singular
annual report and cutting off all further spending for paleontology.
Cope and a zeal to takedown Marsh supported such cots,
even though this would mean that the Geological Survey would
have no funds to publish the next two volumes of
his grand work that he had started with the aforementioned

(01:17:05):
Cope's Bible. In fact, Cope would even illogically claim that
he could publish such works at his own expense and
thus save the government money, something which he very much
could not do with his dwindling fortune. That all being said,
in the end, even though Martian at one point was
forced to defend himself and Yale's relationship with the government,
the Geological Survey would not receive any major cuts or

(01:17:26):
changes to their budget. Indeed, despite all of Herbert's efforts,
federal funding of science was in general preserved, plus, most
frustratingly for Cobe Martianist collection of fossils were spared any
further scrutiny, and he was even able to remain the
Geological Survey's chief paleontologist. Speaking of Cope, as his personal
financial situation continued to deteriorate, he managed to get a

(01:17:49):
job working for Canada's Geological Survey, from which he was
sent in fossils to analyze. However, while this allowed him
to feed his fossil habit, the work didn't pay a
lot and was entered net best. As to the next
two volumes of his grand work, Cobe, despite a suggestion
that he could afford to publish them himself, would instead
see congressional approval for government funding to publish them. As

(01:18:11):
he went through this process, jumping through the VARs hoops
he placed in front of him, Cope likely could have
used the support on the head of the US Geological Survey. Cope, however,
had basically burnt that bridge by signing with Herbert and
by running an editorial in The Naturalist vilifying Powell, likely
doing so due to his close relationship with marsh Speaking
all the consequences of his own actions, Cope and his

(01:18:33):
quest to have his work published also had to contend
with the forces he had helped to unleash as the
idea was now in the air that the garment should
only publish scientific works concerning specimens that they owned. Meanwhile,
Cope's personal financial situation was bleak, as he now had
no choice but to admit that his minding investments were
a failure. Indeed, his family was forced to move out

(01:18:54):
of their townhouse and into a tiny cottage. They would, however,
manage to scrape together enough funds to allow their Julia
to spend another year at Brynmar College, but beyond that
was anyone's guess. Their situation was especially tenuous as Cope
struggled to find work. This was in part due to
Marsh's influence, but it was also a consequence of Cope's
own actions. His while lashing out as he attempted to

(01:19:16):
get it, Marsh had made him no friends. Yet his
bleakest things were From eighteen eighty six through eighteen eighty eight,
Cope still managed to write sixty six scientific papers on
topics ranging from dinosaur breastbones, sabertoothed tiger fossils, copperhead stakes,
and a comparison of pugs and jihuahuas, which again illustrates
both how prolific he was and how scattershot his mind

(01:19:37):
and attention could be again. Though as things stood, it
looked like marsh was acendant. All challenges to his power
had been driven back, and his greatest revel Cope was
practically destitute and left without any valuable connections. Their feud, however,
was not yet done, as there was still another chapter
left to tell, as when Marsha's allies pushed things too far, Cope,

(01:19:59):
with s nothing left to lose, would lash out, bringing
their feud at long last into the public eye. The
tale of that final bitter chapter in this feud, however,
will have to for now remain a story for another time.
Thank you for listening to Distorted History. If you would

(01:20:20):
like to help out, please rate and review the podcasts
and tell your friends if you think they'll be interested.
If you would like ad free in early episodes, I
set up such a feed over at patreon dot com
slash Distorted History. By paying ten bucks a month, you
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as it uses an RSS feed. I will continue to

(01:20:42):
post sources on kofe and Twitter, though, as it's just
a convenient place to go to access that information regardless,
once again, thank you for listening and until next time,

(01:21:11):
is Inala

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