Mavs. Musicals and Media | The Art of Sports Storytelling with Jason Gallagher - Dope Interviews

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dopesworth closed in this PAMs DNA. Dope isworth closed in
this PAMs DNA.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Well, everybody walks the Dope Interview spot that you bought
the mighty nineteen media group. I'm your host, Warrenshaw, an
individual building today, I have any winning director who's living
his life to the fullest, my guy, Jason Gallagher. Jason,
Welcome to Dope Interviews. Brother, It's so nice to see you.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Hey, thanks for asking me to come on. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Listen, listen a person of your your talent and ilk
you're gracing our platform. You've done some really, really amazing
things in the media space, and I really am excited
to kind of have people hear your story and listen
to what you've been able to accomplish in the time
and what you're looking to do next as well. But
before we get into all of that, right, so we
are we are diametrically opposed. At least we were in

(00:50):
June because I'm a Boston Celtics fan, and so Boston
Celtics played the Dallas Mavericks in the NBA Finals. You
are a Dallas Mavericks fan and proudly so talk to
me a little bit about that. You know, have you
always been a Dallas Mavericks fan. When did it all
kind of start for you in that land specifically?

Speaker 4 (01:06):
Sure, I you know, I'm I'm a real Dallas fan
through and through across the board. I was born and
raised in Dallas, so I fortunately am a Dallas Cowboys
fan as well. But you you know, when you live
in Dallas, especially growing up in the nineties, and you
have an interest in basketball, obviously, you know, I was

(01:31):
like any other kid that age. I loved Michael Jordan
and I loved you know whatever, and the Mavericks were
not very successful. But I remember my dad used to
take me to Mavericks games when I was little because
he quote unquote said they was cheaper, good than going
to the movies. And so we would go to old
average games at this old arena called Reunion Arena, and

(01:51):
we will watch them lose most of the time. But
when they started to get better, you know, Michael Finley
started entering the fold. Then you know, Dirk and Nash
and Cuban bart about the team. You know, there was
a lot of excitement there, especially in the early two thousands.
And when you think about like being a basketball fan,
in Cowboys' Nation. You feel like you're a part of

(02:13):
a little club, Like you feel like you're a fan
of the band before they blow up, right And obviously,
you know, the ascendants of Dirk's career was really fun
to follow. He was a really easy guy to cheer
for because he was so you know, he's so good
to fans.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
He was pretty humble.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
His story was really great, like you know, obviously the
failures and.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Overcoming all that in twenty eleven.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
And so I've always been a Mavericks fan, and I
you know, I think I'll always be a Mavericks fan.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
So and nothing wrong with that at all. And obviously
Dallas isn't a great space right now. Obviously Finals Finals
appearance last last year, this past summer, and right on
right on pace to be really influential in the Western
Conference again this year. So, uh, did your Mavericks fandom
feed or lead you into the media and slash journalistic space.

(03:07):
How did you get from you know, being a fan
in Dallas to kind of doing even some of the
stuff that you're doing now.

Speaker 4 (03:13):
Yeah, So I actually have a really really weird story and.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
As to how I got into media.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
So I'm I'm I'm also a theater kid, which is
like a really important part of this story, which is
I did theater growing up.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
I was a very artistic person.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
I did a choir, I wrote music, I did all
sorts of stuff and so actually, uh, but but I'm
a huge sports fan and I've always thought in like
my former you know, business partner JJ Reddick and I
we used to talk about how we love the game
in such different ways. Like I loved it because I
believe that there's like it's like almost artistic in a way,

(03:51):
and these these athletes and they're they're putting their stories
out for the public to see, and then they're being
vulnerable every night so everyone can have valuate it. I
think there's something like Shakespearean about it. So I say
all that to say when I was in college, I
dropped out of college and I moved to Chicago to
pursue sort of more comedy and staged production. So I

(04:13):
started a stage production company with a buddy of mine
called six Hours Short, and it was a way in
which we can put other comedians performances on stage with
then our own. And the thing that really took off
for myself was I co wrote a musical about the
NBA lockout in twenty eleven. It was about two and

(04:36):
a half hours long, but it got a lot of publicity.
It got a lot of buzz that sort of put
my name out there in very small circles, but the
right circles. So, like people at ESPN were really interested
in it. Really it was a really crazy time. It
was reviewed by like NPR at one point they talked
about it on Around the Horn and they debated whether
or not the musical would make it to Broadway. Like

(04:57):
it really kind of like had a and it did
pretty well and was successful. And through that and through
my name sort of starting to get out there is
when I, you know, just started to be like, oh okay,
I can be a writer on the internet.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
I like it was.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
It was a little bit of a transition, and that
almost immediately led to Bill Simmons reaching out and just saying, I,
you know, you're really unique and funny and weird writer,
come right for me.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
And that's how I got into sports media.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
So from the play, what was the play called.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
Again, it was called The Lockout of Musical?

Speaker 2 (05:35):
So can you did you even fathom that that's the
path that it could that that that would take you,
you know, having your play debated ones like that, that's
that's bananas, right, like, So I mean.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yeah, I mean, look, I I knew the power of
the internet, but I hadn't utilized it yet, and and
I think, you know, I had a plan to try to.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
We had a really unique.

Speaker 4 (06:01):
Marketing plan that was essentially, we're going to make a
cast album first, and then we're going to send it
to every sports writer we could possibly find and get
any nuggets of anything. And that really was a successful thing.
I did not think it would be as successful as
it was, and I definitely didn't think it was going
to lead to like the kind of career path I
was on. But one of the things that I found

(06:23):
really interesting that stayed very consistent for me in my
career is that is that I really still love basketball
kind of the same way that I did back then.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
And I think that when it comes to like entertainment
in sports and all.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
That other stuff, that's that's a that's a lane that
I think I really thrive in. You Know, someone the
other day asked me, do you always want to stay
in sports? And It's like, I don't know, but I
just know that there is a lot still to be untapped,
and and I do well there, and I think I
look at it a little differently because again I don't

(07:00):
think people the two thousand and just for a brief premise,
the lockout of Musical was almost like the NBA meets
Romeo and Juliet because and it was inspired by the
Mavericks weirdly, because when they won the title, they went
to the Spies and a big storyline that year at
the Espi's was that Dirk Nowitzky and Mark Cuban were
not allowed to talk to each other, even though they

(07:22):
were on Cloud nine. Because of this lockout, they legally
couldn't talk to each other. And it was funny, and
it made me think of Romeo and Juliet. It made
me think of like, what if an owner and a
player got along really well and they just wanted to
shoot hoops and talk about winning and all this other stuff,
but they're not allowed to And so it sort of
sparked this, and it's obviously had a very comedic angle

(07:43):
to it. But yeah, that's how I'm always sort of
like looking at sports in a way.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
So listen, Jason. So I'm just gonna ask point blay.
Is it available anywhere for anybody to still consume here
in twenty twenty four. Is it on YouTube or somewhere
where it can be found your website or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, so the cast album is on Spotify. That's that's
that's the best thing we can have.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
And I'll just say that, Hey, you know it was
made by some by a young twenty something year old.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
You don't have to qualify, brother.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
The only thing I want to qualify is that if
I were to ever redo it, I would have I
would probably change some things because I think that the
biggest probably.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Mistake I made was well, one, the sound quality.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
Is not great, but two, you know some of the
working with players now it's actually a little mean towards players,
So probably would have been a little nicer like it
just kind of I think I kind of like took
the angle that they're a little spoiled, and I'm sure
some fans feel that way now, but I certainly don't.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, I mean, and you're closer to it. I mean,
and perspective is truly everything, right, And I think even
when I got into the space started writing a little bit,
my perspective change and I was like all right, well,
would I really want to write that? I mean, it's
like you're trying not to be biased. For Sayble was like,
I know this.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
Dude, now you know so exactly. I'm I'm super proud
of it.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
And honestly, even the songs that I'm like, oh I
would I would change that. It's like, I'm proud because
it's really hard to write a song, it's really hard
to record a song and all that stuff. I like
don't have a lot of regrets. I just think if
I were to ever update it, then I would probably
just like update some of the jokes and it's like
a few, but it's not really.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
That that many. Not too bad. Yeah, yeah, so you
said Bill Simmons reached out and obviously you said some
time at the Ringer as well too. I mean, just
these are some really notable sights in our sports sports ethos.
If you will just talk a little bit about those
experiences and if you remember kind of like hey, your
first big article, what was it, what was the assignment

(09:39):
and how did you do?

Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah? Okay, So through that musical, I had sort of
been given advice by somebody at ESPN to start my
own blog, and the blog was called baller Ball. It
is not you cannot find it.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
It's off the internet, but it was called baller ball.

Speaker 4 (09:56):
And essentially what it was trying to do was I
was trying to go viral every day. I was trying
to take some sort of comedic lens. And I actually,
like weirdly, worked with a lot of you know, comedy
writers in Chicago at the time who have since made
pretty good careers out of themselves. Like one guy's like
a regular on an HBO show, another guy is at
the Ringer now, another guy starts his own production company.

(10:18):
So it was a pretty fun collection of people. But
I was trying to, you know whatever, And I will
never forget the article that made Bill reach out to
me was actually this thing that was so stupid. But
Kanye West was tweeting really weird at the time, like
really weird, and he's like, yeah, I know, but like

(10:39):
the sentences were really unstructured, and it was like he
would say a word and then like skip ten spaces
and then say the next word, and it rarely made
any sense. And so it was like a really unique thing.
And so I did. I did a recap for a
bulls heat game in the style in which Kanye writes,
and it was like the most batch. It was crazy

(11:02):
the way it was structured within a blog. And Bill
loved that. He was like, that's so weird and so uh,
that's what kind of got me there and what wound
up happening.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
So so that was at grant Land back.

Speaker 4 (11:14):
When he was with ESPN, and so what wound up
happening was I was I was on as.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
A freelance writer there and.

Speaker 4 (11:22):
I had some some pretty successful stuff, and but I
found myself to be very visual. I was like always
accompanying my pieces with some sort of crude photoshop crewd
meaning the way it was designed, just in the sense
of like I didn't I wasn't good at photo shops,
so it was like it didn't look great, but it
was always like helping my point come across. And and

(11:47):
then yeah, one day I got an email that was like, hey,
we're we're done with with freelance writers. We're just gonna
stay in house, saying thank you for your service, goodbye.
And I like panics because I was like, oh this,
I'm still working my sales job. This was not a
full time thing by any means, but I wanted to
continue to try to grow my place in that career.

(12:09):
So I just was like, do you need multimedia help
and they were like, actually we do, and so that's
it was literally a moment of trying to like survival mode,
what can I do here? And so I started to
do that, and I really once I started to like
lean into that creatively, I started to make some videos
that kind of started going viral that people really enjoyed,

(12:33):
and stuff that you probably see a lot of now
that might even be old, but at.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
The time not a lot of people were doing it.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
It was like it was like mashing up, you know,
trailers with players. I'll never forget this one. It was
about Russell Westbrook, like Prime likes Animal, Russell Westbrook and
it was called point Godzilla because Chris Paul at the
time is called the point Guard point god And I
was like, Russ is point Godzilla. He is just a
machine like animally aims after dunks and things like that.

(13:01):
So I combine that trailer. I remember that went super
viral for grant Land and so they they I did
a lot of stuff like that, and then when Bill
left grant Land UH and started the Ringer, I was
like one of.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
The first phone calls.

Speaker 4 (13:14):
I was one of the very first hire I was
a day one ringer guy and yeah, that's that's how
I wound up at the Ringer fire.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Stuff here from Jason Gallagher. Jason, So, before we transition
a little bit, I want to just tap into that
aspect of the creative side for you, Right, So what
how do you turn that on? Like, how do you
how do you look at something like this is a
spin I'm gonna take because people everyone's scrolling social media
is seeing things, seeing things whatever. But how do you say,
you know what, let me try this. And I'm sure

(13:43):
you obviously had let's just say obviously, but everybody's had
some failures and things that didn't take off in the
way that you wanted it to. But that creative mind, like,
how did you develop that in the way that it
has gone so well for you?

Speaker 3 (13:54):
I've absolutely had more failures than successes, for sure.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
But you really have to have a short mind I
said about it. I mean, being inspired by the artistic
side of myself has been has has a lot of
people in sports media don't come at it from that way.
And that's not to say it's a bad thing, but
I think it's a it's kind of just allowed me
to sort of naturally look at things differently. So like
I used to say that whenever I would make something

(14:19):
for the Ringer or whatever, or even Twitter or their
social media, I would say, like, this is like a
stand up comedy like thing, like where you just go
and you try stuff out every day and then you
have and then you learn from it, and then you
have short memory and then you move on and that
short memory is really really helpful. And so that's that's

(14:40):
kind of was was was a huge just like a huge,
very informative for how we do you know, I make
stuff like that, but in terms of my creative like
Bill was very influential because the way he responded, he
only really responded to the stuff I made that was
like really weird or really out there or really different.
And I noticed he was a he was a great

(15:04):
mentor in the sense that he was always sort of
trying to look for things that didn't exist already.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
And I think that.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
That that helped me by trying to sort of like
seek that approval from him. That helped me think in
that way, and then that became like a guiding light,
like how can we do things differently, how can we
you know, even not to fast forward or derail this interview,
but even looking at the player podspace now, which is

(15:30):
extremely oversaturated, and how do you how do you create
a look and a vibe that's actually different. It's something
that I'm always trying to ask myself what doesn't exist,
what does exist that could use a revamp?

Speaker 3 (15:44):
What is this?

Speaker 4 (15:45):
And that to me is very important. And then when
it comes to the creative side, it's just keep making
stuff for yourself that that that you enjoy, like really
just staying true to that. I just truly, truly believe,
like sometimes I will be like the dumbest thing I've
ever made. It makes me laugh. And also, don't take

(16:05):
the internet too.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Seriously because it's just the Internet.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
It's just gonna if you make something so stupid and
everybody hates you, they're gonna move on in five seconds
because something that hits them out, you know what I mean. Anyway,
So that's that's kind.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Of how I approached the kind of creative process.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
I think, I think valuable insight for anybody listening and
just kind of understanding, you know, believing yourself. And I
think as a content creator. It is that like it
usually does start like, hey, make content that you like,
and then you.

Speaker 4 (16:31):
Like not to cut you off. But like one of
the more successful shows we did was was NBA Desktop
and that's that's the show that we were nominated for
a few Emmys for we were lucky enough to win
and a huge part of that at the time. Again,
now with the everything's on zoom, it's a little different,
but at the time, the only thing sports media was
was glossy sets, big cameras, big productions.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
And what was.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
Funny to me was a lot of these companies as ESPN,
Include or whatever, as they're transitioning into digital, hadn't really started,
hadn't really spoke spoken the digital language, and that was
something that was like really really important to me. It
was like, hey, we're the Ringer, We're an Internet site,
and we have big, glossy cameras and we had we

(17:16):
had tricasters, we had massive studio boards and everything like that.
And I remember me and a partner in this endeavor,
Jason Concepcio, and we're like, we don't want any of
that because the reality is the Internet doesn't work that way,
and so we actually like voluntarily chose this closet to
tape in because I wanted to feel small, intimate. We

(17:37):
taped it on my iPhone and we taped it, you know,
and again right now you can see me. But we
taped the chest up. We made it vlog style and
we did this sports show that was a little bit
more vloggy, and there were very few people doing that
in sports media. That's just sort of another example of
just trying to find those holes in the in the market.

(17:58):
So yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Think very well. Else set again as always, here we're
chatting with Jason Gallagher, I mean winning you know, producer, great, great,
great talent here in the media space here on Dope Interviews.
Take a quick break, y'all and we'll be right back. Yo.
What's up.

Speaker 5 (18:10):
I'm Desmond and I'm the host of Hip to the Games,
the podcast from nineteen Media Group, with the brilliance of
basketball and hip hop's past and present is genuinely appreciated.
Join me every other Friday as we celebrate some of
the greatest artists, albums, moments, songs, bars, punchlines, NBA teams, players,
just anything and everything to do with the game of rap.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
In the game of basketball.

Speaker 5 (18:32):
See if you like basketball and hip hop, and that
means you're hip to the games. But no matter where
you follow that spectrum, I encourage you to join the
fun every other Friday on your favorite podcast platform. Courtesy
of the Great nineteen Media Group.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
And we're back here in Dope Interviews with my guy,
Jason Gallagher. I'm calling him my guy now. I feel
like I've learned so much about it. I've been following
them on Twitter for a very long time and been
a fan of his work for even even longer than that. Jason,
So you touched on a couple of things here. On
the first half of the show Switching. We talked about
the player empowerment era, the player podcast. Obviously, we're on
a podcast here now, I have a basketball podcast, and

(19:12):
while I love our players, yeah, it's it's it's it's
a tough situation for guys like me right now, because Hey,
you much rather listen to a story about guys in
the locker room then than maybe me and my friend
talking about mixes and o's. However, I got to ask
you this question. So all Man and three fire Fire
podcast one of the ones that and when it comes
to the player empowerment era, in terms of the media space.

(19:33):
I was like, well, this one, no, this one's good,
this one, this one's just just stick around. So you
got involved in that? How how do you how do
you get that job? I can't imagine this is on
indeed or LinkedIn, Like, how do you how do you
get into a conversation with JJ Reddick to you know,
kind of say, you know what, I want to produce
your podcast?

Speaker 4 (19:50):
Yeah, So I think one of the things we hadn't
really touched on.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Uh, we've touched a lot on creative and you know,
I think.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Briefly saying that my work ethic is I have a
lot of conviction in my work ethic. I try to
do the best jobs I possibly can. But a really
underrated part two. I think being successful in this industry
is trying trying to be a really nice person and
try to be really good and especially if you're if
you're in a producer role, it's actually a little bit

(20:22):
of a sacrificial role in some ways, and so embracing
that and being the best sort of steward to the
project that you possibly can. And that's been consistent, whether
it be stage but anything. It's always like, recognize the
talent support, the talent guide, the talent all that other stuff.
And so the person that I became fast friends with
at The Ringer, who was at The Ringer at the

(20:44):
time was a guy named Tommy Alter, who was co
host with JJ Reddick. Tommy Alter at the time was
Bill Simmons's guest booker. Okay, but he and I got along.
And Tommy's most well connected human being you'll ever meet.
He knows everyone, get you in at any game, any concert, whatever.
But I sort of like, I just kind of became

(21:06):
friends with him, and I was very nice to him,
and he was very nice to me. And it was
not a transactional relationship. It was like we recognize each
other's talent, we would get lunch, we would talk. That
was it.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
And so JJ actually had his podcast at.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
The Ringer, but was not doing it very frequently, and
to be honest, was not being executed in the way
that I thought could maximize its potential, right, and so
so we sort of started to I actually weirdly started
working on that show without ever getting to know JJ.

(21:41):
I was doing some video for The Ringer and actually
using the assets from that and being like, what can
we do on this YouTube page, and if you go
to The Ringer's YouTube page today, I'm very proud to
say that a bunch of the best videos, like most
viewed videos ever made, were from that JJ podcast and
that you know few period where we were really trying

(22:02):
to focus on video, but we saw something there. We
saw something there, and it's something that, as JJ has
said in the past, which is video goes viral. Audio
doesn't really go viral. So when you're starting a new podcast,
that's such an essential thing to think about when you're
trying to, you know, find eyeballs and ear ears and
all that other stuff. So Tommy approached me and said,

(22:22):
JJ wants to own his own content. I think we
were all pretty happy at The Ringer, but it's JJ
wanted to own his own content, and I we had
just sold the Spotify and I just sort of had
this sort of revelation that I don't know why, but
I just really feel like personal brands are almost the

(22:42):
new brand. Like they like, if you can attach yourself
to somebody who feels like there's a lot of upside,
then do it, because you know, because that to me
can be in itself its own business. So whenever I
was approached to it. I actually we kind of did
like a trial run and I started their YouTube page

(23:04):
or whatever, and it just went like this. And obviously,
like I said, I operated with a lot of conviction.
I attacked the start of that with like a really
strong game plan along with JJ and Tommy.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Tommy booked some amazing guests.

Speaker 4 (23:20):
JJ made time for it, and we just we went
all in and we made this thing feel really important
and a short amount of time and that's when we
knew we had something. And then crap, it took like
a year of working on that show until I actually
met JJ in Dallas. He was playing for the Mavericks.
Finally enough, Maverick's great JJ Reck and we got along instantly.

(23:44):
I think that's the most surprising part was, you know,
if you have this preconceived notion of who JJ Reddick is,
you might think he's like this, you know, douchebag from
Zo Duke or something. And he and I got along really,
really well. And I think a lot of that just
had to do with like the fact that we respect
how hard we work at our craft. And so yeah,

(24:05):
that's initially how we got started, and it took off
like a rocket ship.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
It is the best job ever.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
So yeah, I know it absolutely did. I mean again,
people can go back and listen to all those episodes
and you know, maybe at some point or an offseason.
I don't know what JJ's plans are, you know, obviously
coaching the Lakers now, A lot of a lot of
fish in the in the in the fryar right now.
But you two, you're a busy guy. But question you
get asked a lot, and I don't know if you
have a unique story that you can share. But when

(24:31):
it comes to the old man in the three, is
there an episode that means the most to you for
whatever reason or most that's most memorable?

Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah, there's a there's a couple. I think one of
my favorite, My favorite episode was the second time we
interviewed Chris Paul.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
Chris Paul, Uh I didn't I don't know him or whatever.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
I just know he's on court persona and I remember
being like, he seems annoying, you know whatever, and U
We went to Phoenix to go tape with him, and
it was one of the most fun interviews I've ever
sat through. And it's just because they're so close. JJ
and Chris and their banter and how funny he was

(25:15):
with me. He was given me craft like it was great.
And then afterwards I was fortunate enough to go to
dinner at his house afterwards and it was myself jj
McHale Bridges was still on the team, so he was
there and Chris and it was three hours of Clipper stories,
them just rehashing old Clippers things, and that was probably
my favorite night of ever doing the podcast. I obviously

(25:39):
have really great memories, like I think the Stephen Curry
night that we did that that was really really fun,
and those are really fun because our company was really
small and intimate, so it was one of those things
where it's like, hey, Stephan Curry is going to give
us an hour if we fly to Houston tomorrow, and
it's just fun. You rally and it's like a little
bit of Ocean's eleven, was like, how are we gonna
get there?

Speaker 3 (25:59):
How are we gonna get going to.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
Look like, I'm a producer guy and I just got
all these cameras and I'm walking into a set that
I've never seen before, and I'm going to try to
make this hotel room look presentable in fifteen minutes. It
was fun, you know, and and and that one was
really worthwhile because Steph is, you know, just Steph. He's
just so great. And then the last one I want
to say is just Luka doncic because because JJ was

(26:25):
nice enough to let me bring my son to that,
so we actually I surprised my son. We took a
six am flight to New York City, We did the
Luca interview. My son got to hang out with him,
like talk with him. It was really really cool. And
then we flew back that night and he got to
brag to all his friends the next day. It was
really cool.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
So that's that's hello, dope, hellodope. So JJ obviously transitioned,
you know, from well not to say from but was
doing The Old Man three and then had a great
opportunity to work with Lebron so which provides you an
opportunity to work with Lebron as well too. So did
you have to air quote interview with with LBJ or
the JJ ready just kind of bout for you. Now

(27:02):
he's good. Lebron already was already familiar with your work.
I talked a little bit about, you know, getting into
into the Mind podcast.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
No, yeah, so JJ and Lebron had sort of been
having these discussions about how how could they can work together.
Lebron was trying to enter the media space, he didn't
want to do so in a traditional way, and so
they you know, there was kind of this discussion of like,
could you get really granular with the game? Can you
educate the game and people you know, enjoy it. JJ

(27:34):
was able to and this is something that I'll always
be very very thankful for. He insisted that I was
in charge of that project, and Unterrupted is no small potatoes,
like it is a big successful company. But you know,
he felt, you know, from a pod player podcast perspective,

(27:55):
that I could sort of steward, you know, be a
stewart to this project and make it exactly what we wanted.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
And I'm forever grateful for that.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
So to be able to sort of walk in there
and sort of start with from nothing and create a vision.
And so I didn't have to interview. JJ just insisted,
and it was it was something that I'll be indebted
to him for ever.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
It was amazing. It was amazing, and kudos to you.
And again it's it's off the credit off the work
that you've been able to do, produce and everybody's speaking
so highly of the work that you do. Do any chance,
and I know it's not trade secrets or whatever, but
any chance it comes back, even as an off season
limited series, Like what's the situation that in Mind the Game.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
I think there's a pretty good chance it comes back
in some capacity. I don't think JJ will ever be
a part of it, at least not in the current
situation as his friend. I as his friend, I've advised
him don't do podcasts. And you know, some people have
been like, well, coaches, you know, they go on the
interview or they go on the radio like once a week,

(28:58):
and I'm like, yeah, but they're not high are directly
from podcasts.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
So if I were him, you know whatever, And he
has no.

Speaker 4 (29:04):
Interest in doing it, he's so freaking invested in and
what he's got going on right now. So yeah, but
you know, I truly don't know the future of Mind
the Game, but I have a feeling it's going to
come back in some iteration.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
With you at the helm, I'm sure it will be successful.
A couple last ones, Jason, before we ride out into
the proverbial sunset. Earlier, you touched on kind of like
the emerging trends. We've had those conversations about players getting
into this space, your thoughts just in general, right, and
of what that is and where that can potentially go,
Players telling their own stories and whatever platforms that they

(29:42):
choose to engage in a lot different from the times.
It seems like you and I kind of were growing
up in and now we're in this space where it's
a mixed bag a little.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
Bit, wouldn't you say, oh, totally yeah, And look like anything,
you know, something successful.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
There's gonna it's gonna, it's gonna.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
Uh, what's gonna come out of that is a lot
of copycats, a lot of innovation, a lot a lot
of stuff.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Like I think we've only.

Speaker 4 (30:07):
Sort of scratched the surface of what the sort of
player led media entities uh can produce. And so you
know that's not just like I think it's a great thing.
You know, the oversaturation part of it is just like, hey, guys,
you know, guys, once I've gotten to sort of no players,
I mean, they're they're they they're like us. They they

(30:30):
play basketball and then they need to fill their time.
They want to do stuff and they retire early. So
they want to figure out what to do afterwards. This
is a great model. I think what I'm excited for
is sort of like, you know what, what else can
they sort of disrupt? And I think that there that's
going to happen. It's like we don't have we have

(30:51):
players sitting around on couches talking and we have you
know that, but we don't have like we don't have
the the true like Freaking around the Horn hosted by
two active players with graphics sitting at a table looking
at each other, arguing like how else could they disrupt

(31:11):
the industry? And I would also say that, you know,
because I have a lot of friends and you know
sort of like that are not athletes that are in
this space. And I just always say it too man,
like talent wins, Like I really, I really, I really
truly believe that talent wins.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Knowledge wins.

Speaker 4 (31:26):
I think we're in an economy right now that really
craves knowledge, like really craves it. And and I view
that across the board, not just sports, but like there's
a reason why, like you know, people who are like
exports that like plant life, like go viral every day
on TikTok because they're just they're just really knowledgeable about

(31:46):
the subject and people crave knowledge.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
So I tell that to my sports media friends all
the time.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
Is is you know, I don't think that I don't
think that this pushes anyone out. If you're driven to
create really good content, it's going to be there. So
like the audience is there, you know, I don't think
you necessarily need an ESPN two. You know, kind of
control your own future and destiny in this industry. So

(32:13):
I'm really excited to see where the where the athlete
stuff goes though, because and I'm hoping to be a
part of it, you know, hoping to be a part
of how that continues to grow.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Well, that's humble as hell hoping to I'm sure you
have your turning down projects, you know, on a regular basis,
I think at this stage, which is a great place
to be in and but your humility is one that's
resonating here. I think with me and I'm sure with
people who have come into contact with you, that aspect
of even when I got into as small as it's
been in the writing space, it was first start to
be like, hey, all of this is like it's all relationships,

(32:44):
it's our relationships, and you touched on that earlier and
so being able to be humble understand what can I
do for you? And that always like you know, just
trying to get out ahead. Relationships need to be mutually
beneficial and I think there's a lot of takers in
this world. So the more that you can kind of
be giver, the longer run way, I think you'll have
it in that. So, but as we're talking about the

(33:05):
player space, there's still the aspect of people want to
know the behind the scenes, like that is stuff that
is still a lot of craving. People are craving in
a wide weight rather. So you have a new new
project you on ESPN. You know that that you that
you are a part of. So humble again as we're
talking and I was like, oh and I saw it,

(33:26):
and I was like, oh, he reach too? Is he
a part of that? And then come to find out
you actually are so ESPN clutch the NBA Playoffs behind
the scenes look basically of the twenty twenty four playoffs.
Correct talk to us a little bit about that. You know,
how'd you get involved and you know the kind of
the joy that you had working with some of.

Speaker 4 (33:41):
That, Yeah, it was really cool. I was a part
of it from like a very top line sort of way.
So essentially what had happened was there's a company called
full Well Productions, which if you google them, they basically
do everything you watch. They are like the craziest production company.
They do everything, and they're British based company, and they

(34:06):
actually started doing soccer documentaries and they do a lot
of successful soccer documentaries Sunderland Until I Die, Champions of
the World followed the World Cup. These are like really
successful on Netflix and stuff like that. And they had,
you know, have agree an agreement to do this documentary
with the NBA. And what was really funny is they

(34:27):
were like, well, we're soccer guys. They were like, we
don't know anything about basketball. So I actually came to
three four to two, the owner of that company had
a relationship with JJ came to three four two and
was like, we need your knowledge, we need your expertise.
And that's really was sort of our involvement was to
just simply say, like, you need to capture this part
of the playoffs, because there's another documentary that's really good

(34:48):
A lot of my friends are working on.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
I highly recommend that too.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
It's called Starting Five and it's on Netflix, and what
that focuses on at these five individuals, which is like
equally fascinating to me. I think our approach and what
JJ and I have always believed and why I think
JJ probably was a really great partner for this is
that he's always wanted to stress just how much of
a team sport this is, and if you're talking about

(35:13):
the playoffs, it goes so far beyond that. It's like
the team is not just the guys on the roster,
it's actually the staff and it's the people that work
at the arena. And then it extends out to one
of the storylines that I was really helpful and just
sort of like you know, trying to craft was like

(35:33):
Oklahoma City is a great example. The growth of this
team actually is embedded in the government and the local
businesses and everything like that. Because it is a small market,
all of that stuff is actually has to be invested
in order for the team to work, and that, to
me is where this docuseries is I think pretty fascinating,

(35:54):
is to sort of take a holistic approach about, Hey,
what does it mean for teams to be successful in
the playoffs? What does it mean for the communities, What
does it mean for the players, what does it mean
for the families. That's why we spend time with like
a lot of families. We spend the time like Darren
Fox's his wife. We had a camera on her the
whole time, but she was you know, we have we

(36:15):
have guys that we haven't It hasn't aired yet, so
I want to spoil anything. But we're with people's families
as they're watching these guys go through this. We're with
the community, We're with the mayor of the city as
he's watching, like this dictates the future of our city,
that kind of thing. And so so yeah, I think
it's a really cool project. I hope you check it out.

(36:36):
It's great.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, I absolutely need to check out the first episode.
You know, can't wait to see what's next, and equally
anticipating the starting five to one as well too.

Speaker 4 (36:44):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
I mean again, anything that's well produced in this way,
and it gives us a hot scenes look. And hey,
you know, selfishly Selfish won the championship, so I can't
be met at any to look behind that five of
the finale.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Brother, I'm gonna skip it, but you're.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
I can't wait. I can't wait, I need to hit
you up. I need it now, I need it. No,
I need I need to get some screeners in my
life or something like that. I've been consuming something content
all summer, all summer. But Jason, last two, just what
personal goals for yourself? You know, what what's next for
you here? Obviously I have all these great projects, all
these great connections, well liked, well received, humble individual. Hey

(37:25):
what's the next man?

Speaker 4 (37:27):
Yeah, what's next? Is you know, again trying to push
the space forward, isn't it? Even as I've sort of evaluated, Hey,
what's the next thing? You know, trying to push the
space forward, trying to provide for my family, but also
then trying to you know, I like to stay uncomfortable,

(37:47):
and I like to stretch, you know, stretch myself a
little bit and try to, you know, do things that
are challenging. And so that's kind of what I'm hoping
to do. And in doing that, hopefully again and pushing
this space forward. I can't really talk about some of
the future things that I'm doing right now because they're
in the middle of contract negotiations. But my hope is

(38:09):
that within a week or two we have some really
exciting things on the horizon that I'm really really excited about.
I don't think I don't think it's giving anything away
because we've said it very publicly. But what we've built
at the Old Man and the Three, we're hoping to
really transition into something pretty exciting and cool. So I'm
hoping to be a part of that and that that proceeds.

(38:30):
And so yeah, I don't know, just staying happy, staying creative,
That's that's my hope.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
And it's definitely going well for you. And then you
know the final one as a dad, right, you know,
you being able to be kind of like that like
that light, that inspiration you know, for for for your kid,
just as your family, like how supportive are they and
understanding because these are a lot of long nights, long hours,
vacations and travel and not vacations, but being away from

(38:58):
the house. And you know, I'm sure you've theres some
things as well too. You know, how do you balance
all that to keep a family unit kind of intact?

Speaker 4 (39:07):
Yeah, that is an amazing question and I have been
thinking about that a lot. I had an Uber driver
asked me a very similar question last week, and we
wound up talking for like an hour. But so I
don't want to take an hour of your time here.
But I will say that my family, keeping them the
priority has been has allowed me to sort of make

(39:30):
decisions that I think are really right. There is a
there is a balance, There is an uncomfortable time. You know,
playoffs are really difficult, and it's about really segmenting your time.
I think anybody in this industry would just say, when
you're off, be off. When you're on, beyond, but when
you're off, be off, and make sure those off times

(39:52):
are reserved. And you're actually taking an advantage of it
because because it you know, in digital actually it's really
it's really tempting to stay glued to your laptop and
your phone. And one of the things that I remember
reading about I think it was Bob Iger's book, but
he essentially talked about, you know, when you wake up,

(40:15):
don't look at your don't make make sure looking at
your phone is not the first thing you do when
you go to bed. Make sure looking at your phone
is not the last thing you do, because that's stuff
that you really can control, and you can control how
you approach your day in that perspective. So that's something
I've been working on the last couple of years. Is
just waking up, walking downstairs, hanging with the kid, hanging

(40:35):
with the wife, getting coffee. Because if I don't see it,
it doesn't exist. If the problem isn't in my face,
then I don't it doesn't exist. And so that's something
that's just really important. It's just it's and and and
I would just say to like, this whole industry is
not to get like you know, super it's a it's

(40:57):
a cruel industry at times, and it can it is,
it is. Things are fleeting.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
I'm having a nice time right now, ten years from now.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
Who knows.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
Zach Low just got to let go at ESPN.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
These are things and that is something I've idolized my
whole life. So this industry, it takes, it gives, it
does all that. It's great. It can also spit you out.
You just never know. And the thing that's always going
to be there for you is your family. And so
investing in that in that part of your life as
much as you're investing in your career. I just would

(41:31):
I wholeheartedly recommend.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
I couldn't say better myself. My wife tells me all
the time, like Hey, you know, how about over here
when I grab my phone sometimes or even if it's
just a turn off the alarm, like I don't don't
get caught in like scrolling, and what a case to
be No pay attention to the family, your loved ones.
I think that is expertly and pointly well said. Great
place for us to wrap and hopefully from meet on
the moon for a future conversation down the line. Jason,

(41:54):
tell the people where they can find you on social media.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
Yeah, so on X you can just search my name.
I have a weird handle that has dirt Nowitzki's number
in it, so you can search my name, you'll see
my face and then on Instagram it's Jason Gallagher forty
one of course. So yeah, man, just follow my stuff there.
We got some exciting stuff here before the season starts,
so I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Absolutely Again, he is Jason Gallagher, amazing, amazing gentleman here
in this media space doing amazing, great, great projects. Stuff
you already have known, and some stuff you're going to
become familiar with here. Make sure you check out Clutch
the NBA Playoffs on ESPN. I'm Warren Shaw. You can
be up at Shaw Sports NBA or dope underscore interviews
and as always, you know what it is. It's been
another dope interview, y'all. Oh my guy, Jason Gallagher.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Out together, we stand the viol We never the vision
is one striving for the better. Working as a team,
working toward a dream does not even work when a
team is the dream. When he united front, we got
a home back, a band of brothers, the counts wrapped
in he attack one heart. In fact, forget what the
blood say. It's worth closing his Stam's DNA.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
So it's doing for.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
The love, give to the max. Listen to an opinion,
but react to facts and remember that together with a ship,
but separate just pieces of it, shooting.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Dope.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
It's worth closing his Stam's DNA. Dope, It's worth closing
his Stam's DNA.

Speaker 6 (43:27):
Family represent like a tree with names on it.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
We're free, no change on it.

Speaker 6 (43:31):
Relieve the pain's gone out and see we come together
like questions on the quiz Mota flowing viz.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Man, you know what it is.

Speaker 6 (43:37):
And if ignorance is blisity's gonna hate this lesson organize
them the like a tropical depression, My simpol list across
some mic and ghost peapers. Because I'm just a black
shoe growing up to be a shepherd, moon lightened as
a weapon to protect the children.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Every brother is a father.

Speaker 6 (43:51):
Dynasties we're building Max J and k Beabay and Isai
next level of the family Foundation.

Speaker 5 (43:57):
Understand Me

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Two

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Mavs. Musicals and Media | The Art of Sports Storytelling with Jason Gallagher

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