April 22, 2025 • 24 mins
Please enjoy Big Listen a great episode of the OTR legend Dragnet
This content was created in partnership and with the help of Artificial Intelligence AI
This content was created in partnership and with the help of Artificial Intelligence AI
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Ladies and gentlemen. The story you're about to hear is true.
The names have been changed to protect the innifant.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Drag Matt.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You're a detective sergeant. You're assigned a robbery detail. You
got a call from an informant telling you that three
known gangsters have moved into your city. You don't know
who they are or.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Why they're in Look ange of us, your job? Check
'em out with Wednesday, August fourth, with warm in Los Angeles.
We were working to day watch out of robbery detail.
My partner's Frank Smith, the boss's TV detective stad Ground.
My name is Friday. Were on our way out from
the office and.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It was ninety lamb when we got to the Osborne
Turkey's back steam room.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hot is it? Yeah? Must be del back there.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, oh yeah, I would buy your fast. Okay, Joe Jim.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Fuck he's bag of headly No, no, I under standing
grate for coals just to spend a brings to dream
by out.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Okay, you have my brother make them more. Talk me
about how it does the colt that sty as what
did they called it? Wood?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
That's a good idea, all right, right, I keep waiting
with the tubble blar, he's to check on the steam
p rim here.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That's okay, let's get out again.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Huh, I won't make me an happy. Sure, it's hot
deal going upstairs. I'm telling about yet what he got
for us? Delight?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Not going any place.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
But I thought I ought to throw you guys in
on it.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I saw a roll in here last night.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
It's have been about ten thirty nightman's out with a cold,
so I had to fill in a cold. Yeah, some
kind of virus or something. Oh yeah, come on, we
can target the office. Sit down here, mind if I
go over some of these builds while we talked, we'll
go ahead. Well, Bimbo pulls in here last night, really
carrying a load. I registered him and had Jimmy take
(01:59):
him upstairs.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
This guy's kind of wild, you know, rolling all over
the place. I wanted to get him upstairs to the room.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Figure need to sack out, and we wouldn't hear no
more from him. Yeah, well he had a different idea.
A couple of minutes later, he comes downstairs, wants to
know what's going on?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
What do you mean?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Wants to know where the steam room is, says he's
not gonna sit in the little room all night. He
pay for his steam bath. That's what he wants. Yeah,
when he starts to talk about his high powered friends
and this dealer out to poor, A kind of figured
it's something wrong.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Can tell you where the friends were? No, not right now.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I just mentioned a guy named Bud. Kept talking how
Bud was gonna be sore at him cause he got drunk.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Once.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
They said it a hundred times, how Bud was gonna
be real. Soort sounded to me like this, But it's
the big man of the deal.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I see no idea what the deal is though. Now.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Most he said was that when they left town, they
were all gonna have a lot of money, more money
than I'd ever seen.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
He got the name on this guy.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh, here's the register here. See yeah, I ain't see
right here?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Ernon Carmichael Los Angeles didn't give an address huh. Once
he mentioned he had to meet but at the hotel
down on the South Flower.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Didn't say which one.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Though, with flowers along the street, Well, that doesn't help me.
Didn't give any ideas at all of what the deal
was gonna be.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Huh.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
No, I must be a good one, though, Why you
say that well, when I took him up to his
room last night, I could see his clothes hang on
a chair. Yeah, on top of his coat. He had
his shoulder ulster. Looks like a forty five automatic in
it when I look at it. Guy that's carrying that
kind of muscle is figuring on scoring heavy.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Do you make any phone calls when he was here? Now?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Swing up, man, leave it alone. Figure you'd want to
go over it.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
It's a good idea. What time did he leave this one?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Jimmy said thirty? I figured sure he's sweet and on
he was gonna leave that? Or oh he called you?
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Laser told him when I thought there was something wrong.
You know, reading the guy left so early is that
he got a call from somebody. I guess it's the
guy that picked him up this Jimmy, see who it was? No,
did the next best thing though, Yeah, what's that? Got
the license number of the car.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Ten fifteen am. We got in touch of the Layton
Prince and Holland Stall sent a crew out to go
over the room. Frank put him a call to the
record bureau and he had the name Burnham. Carmichael checked.
There was no record on anyone answering the description that
we'd gotten from the manager of the Turkey's bath.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
In addition, the radiogram was sent to the Department of
Motor Vehicles in Pennsylvania asking for all.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Available information on the owner of the car bearing the
license number that we've been given.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Eleven thirty am, parlan Stall's crew finished checking the room
and they told us that they'd been able to lift
a complete set of poon fingerprints from a water glass.
They were photographed and classified. In checking our files, there
was no record of the prince. They were forwarded to
George bretton up a.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Sacramento of the CII and to the FBI in Washington,
d C.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Two days passed, on Friday, August sixth, we got the
word from DMV in Pennsylvanias that the car was registered
to Howard Nielsen. The radiogram also gave us a description
of the car and the registered owners addressed in Pittsburgh.
On receipt of this information, we got in touch with
the police department in Pittsburgh and found that Howard Budd
Nielson had a misdemeanor record. Late Friday afternoon, the kickback
(04:48):
from Washington, d C. Arrived with the information The finger
prints found in the room at the Turkish Bath were
those of Vernon Carmichael. His record listed arrests the petty
theft and robbery in Pennsylvania. He'd been brought to trial,
nobody had been acquitted. Both men were well known to
the police department in Pittsburgh as hoodlum. On Saturday morning,
the mud shots of both Nielsen and Carmichael arrived ten
(05:09):
to fifteen am. We met with Lieutenant Jack Smyers, and
we decided that the information coupled with the two men
made the incident worth investigation. The mug shots at the
pair were copied and the canvas of the hotels on
South Flower Street was started in an attempt to find
the residence of the suspects. The search went on for
another two days without results. Monday, August ninth, eleven forty
seven am, Frank and I got back to the office
(05:30):
from communications.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And now we're going to feel pretty silly of.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Carmichael and Nielsen are already back there. Yeah, it's getting
looked like the tip from Dell about the hotel on
Flower was office. Still a lot of places to check,
only exciting. Yeah, we got it for you. What Carmichael
and Nielson. We found the hotel.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
At ten thirty that morning, Officers Murphy and Rafferty had
gotten the first affirmative answer to their questions about the suspects.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
A room clerk and a small hotel at the corner of.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
South Flower Street and Bunker Hill Avenue had recognized the
mugshots of Comichael om Nielsen put out.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
The name of the third man in the trio was
identified as Ernest Cutter. A check of the name through.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Our records netted us no news and the name of
the description was forwarded again to Brayton unper mapping Bitsbord
for possible application and talking Lieutenant how to kick your
stad bound. Was decided to keep them in under twenty
four hours surveillance. Three additional teams of men from Robbery
Detail were assigned.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
To the duty.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
For the next seven days. The three men were under
constant watch. Their habits were regular, their movements during the
day followed the same general pattern. The kickback on Ernest
Tutter disclosed no criminal record. At the end of the
first week of watching, the minute was decided that the
next step in the operation was to place a microphone
in their room so that we might be able to
monitor their conversations. Frank and I got in touch with
(06:45):
the sound crew at the crime lab and we made
arrangements for them. The necessary permits were obtained from the
Federal Communications Commission, and the listening equipment itself was ready.
We made arrangements with radio car officers to pick up
the suspects for investigation. The sound crew Frank and I,
along with Murphy and Rapperty stood by for words that
the trio was.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
In custody Tuesday night nine. Should be getting word pretty quick, Yeah,
red red, come in red one. It's murshed. Yeah. Read
one to red two, come in red two.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Have you word yet?
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Four? No? O?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Not yet?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Where will set the manager's apartment?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Fit to post one? Moor to post one coming out
post one. Sounds like they got it. Then you want
to take it?
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Yeah, stand by red three. I'll post one the monitor.
I'll post one the monitor. Go ahead, monitor to hop
post one.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I permation received that suspects are in custody.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Repeat, suspects are in custody. Economics.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
I'll post one the monitor. I'll post one the monitor.
Message received, I'll post one out.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
You heard it? Yeah, Read one to red two and
red three read one to read two and red three.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Do you read me?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Red two and three?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Red one, right three to red one receiving clearly.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Red one to red three. Suspects are now in custody.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Proceed with installation of listening equipment over roger red one,
red three. Please keep contact well do red one red
three outs red one to red two. Come in red
two red Murph, Can you see the suspects apartment from
where you are?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Not?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Good, Joe, it's not in the hall and around the
corner first door.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Over red one to red three, come in red three.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Red three to red one.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Are you in the apartment yet, dad? Joe? With your
starter stall on the bug? Is there a radio in
the room?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, a small table model.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
It's on the night's dand next to the bed. Can
you fix that before you leave?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, I'll pull one of the wires so it won't work.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Good. Where are you putting the bug? We're landing under
the edge of the car.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Would do the door to the kitchen, would be able
to pick up the whole room there.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
There's nothing dou now until we get it finished there. Yeah,
we got the recorder all set up. Yeah, it's in
the room. Sound crew came in this afternoon. Maybe the
installation on it. Do you know how to work it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I think so, Jack, check me out on It's pretty simple,
just like playing a piano, press a key in the
way it goes.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well. I hope you got it. I've always had trouble
with him.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Last time out, I wanted to rewind one of the
spools and listen to something.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Ended up raising everything we as I remember that very well.
I was afraid you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Eleven fifteen pm, the installation of the listening equipment was
completed and Frank and I, along with Officer Pat Murphy,
took up our positions in the room we intended to
use as a monitoring post. Officer Rapper he went back
to the City Hall and told him that we'd finished
and we were ready to have the suspects released. In
the meantime, Carmichael, Nielsen and Hunter had been fingerprinted and mugged.
A search of their persons had failed to reveal any
(09:52):
incriminating evidence, and the time that they'd been held had
allowed us to make the necessary installation. After the trio
had been released, we received information that they were proceeding
toward the hotel. Frank Murphy, and I waited for them
at the monitor post to come into their room.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Twelve thirty five am. That's that. Get the recorder?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Huh? What you don't take care of the long frank? Yeah,
you say it's twelve thirty six am.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
That's shire. What would you do? Your boy one? Who?
Why you did though?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
That's what you would think?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
They had a reason.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
You're so smike, You tell me why?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Ah shut up? We had time. I ought you weren't
such a big man when he started asking you the
question joy a.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Time said now he was gonna come 'em all.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Why don't you shut there?
Speaker 6 (10:28):
Probably when you got tanked up and a circus sprat,
that's probably what tick him.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
What tip a couple of.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Uniform cop stop us on the rooting investigation? They got
nothing anything?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Onse you think you'll let us go?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Will do you do? You think you'll let us go?
Speaker 5 (10:40):
All right?
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Don't you sure?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I am very Uh?
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Turn on the radio where you get some music?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
And next time you get tanked him back there, I
talk a.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Room and all over town. That's why he picked us up.
You said something? What'd I say? You know what I said?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
And I'll tell you you'll be in a big Maybe.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
You don't tell me what I said to him.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
They pick me up.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
You said something.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I don't know what it was, but you shut off
your mouth.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Hey, honor, what's about at the radio?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I thought you got to turn it off.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
A moment.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
The shot and I say, do open your mouth anymore.
You got more trouble you can have.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
That's the way, un less to you.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Yeah, cause you guys don't shut up, I'm throw out
of here.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I'll shut up. Get your feet. They're not. So was
the radios.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
And that's the way it went for the next five days.
When the men were in the room, they argued continually.
They talked about the deal they were working on, but
from their conversation there was no way of learning what
they planned. When they left the room, they were constantly
under surveillance, but their movements were routine. They took their
meals in the same restaurant, They went to movies, they
sat in bars, always together. During the time they were
(11:50):
out of the apartment, they made no local contacts. They
received no telephone calls, they made none. We knew that
they were planning something, but.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
There was no way of knowing what it was.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
All conversation in the room was re recorded and listened
to over and over again, and I hope that we
could come up with some kind of a lead, but
the time spent in replaying the recordings and that it
is nothing from what they'd said. We figured that whatever
they were planning would take place on either Tuesday, August seventeenth,
or on Wednesday, August eighteenth. On Tuesday, three way cars
were assigned to the streets in front of the hotel,
(12:18):
but the suspects acted as usual. On Wednesday, they didn't
leave their room. Frank Murphy and I continued to wait
on the streets outside. Three other teams of men were
standing by and undercover cars. Nine thirty pm, I said, telephone,
get the recording er yet.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Oh yeah, we right, okay, we'll leave right now. Yep,
what Yeah, that's where we got it right oopee about
thirty nine?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Hey, how are we gonna know you?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
So? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I got it right? Hey, who is that the contact?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, there's the stuff just got in.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
We're supposed to pick it up right away.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Oh that's like they we'd got to workout.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Let us go ship, we'll get it out. I'll post one.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
The unit's one K eight nine one K eight eight
one K eight seven. Suspects are leaving room. Suspects are
leaving room. I'll post one out, all right, let's go.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I wish we knew what it was. It sounds like
it might be a narcotics so.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
It could be. It doesn't make a lot of difference,
does it. Yeah, at least we know it's something.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
By the time we got to the street, the suspects
were getting into their car and pulling away from the curb.
Frank Murphy and I got to our car and followed them.
They drove down South Flower to the corner of Palm
Drive and turned.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Left three blocks further.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
They pulled into a gas station and are currently asked directions.
They turned south on Broadway and drove about a mile.
At Santa Barbara Avenue, they turned left again and drove
three blocks. They stopped and parked the car in front
of a small bar. We informed the other units of
the activity and asked them to stand by in the area.
Carmichael got out of the car and entered the bar.
Murphy left us and.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Entered the bar after him.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Carmichael returned in a few minutes with another man. The
two of them got back into the car and they talked.
At the end of that time, all four of the
man got out of the automobile and then they.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Entered the bar.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Shortly after that, Carmichael, Nielsen, and Hunter walked out of
the place. Carmichael was carrying a small package wrapped in
plain brown paper and tied with a stream. The fourth
man wasn't with him. Frank and I got out of
our car and approached the men as they stood talking.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I'd hold it up. Police officers over there. Put your
hands on that wall.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It's going on.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Get your hands up there, Frankie wanted checking the package again.
Keep your hands on that wall, Lassie deal.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I hope you're a happy Carmichael, I'll hep, you're real happy.
What are you talking about. I've got to leave this
one to you.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
You really took care of the hand. Still and keep quiet,
how about it? Frank I don't know, bullieve me. Where's money?
Twenty dollars bills, a few fifteen twenty thousand dollars worn't
queer as far as I can tell us. Good? And
where's that put his all those twenty thousand dollars here? Yeah,
let's find out where they got it. U ten oh
(15:05):
two am.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
The four suspects were taken into custody and removed to
the City Hall for interrogation.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
We got in touch with the Secret Service and.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Asked them to come over to the office to check
on the currency. The agent arrived and, after looking at
the money, pointed out several minute mistakes that had been
made in the engraving of the plates. He went on
to explain, however, that this particular printing was one of
the best that he'd ever seen. He told us that
the paper used in the bills would be analyzed and
that we'd received copies of the reports as soon as
they were finished. Twelve fourteen am. While Murphy, Rafferty and
(15:34):
the Secret Service man questioned Nielsen in the interrogation room,
Frank and I talked to Carmichael in the squad room.
We questioned him for about an hour, but he refused
to say anything that would help us get a lead
to the source of the counterfeit.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
One thirty am. How long had figure you can keep
us up, Carmichael.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I don't know what you tell card I come off
and we're getting tired of planned kid games here. We
wanna know where the quair came from.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Now who says it's queer? Guy that printed it was
pretty sloppy, made a lot of mistakes. Joe, yeahmor see
you've been Yeah, sure, I bet yeah. How you doing nothing?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Nielson won't say word. Gives it to us if you
didn't know what was going on, says he just went
out there to pick.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Up a package. They see who they were running the
air and for tells him just he went along for
the ride.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
The whole thing was Carmichael's idea.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Mm hm.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
We thought maybe we'd go to work one hundred see
what we can get from him.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Okay, you're gonna stick with Carmichael? Yeah, I guess so
from what we heard in the room. If there's gonna
be a break, I got a hunch it's gonna come
from him. Okay, you got anything about us? Know right away.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Don't take man's back again. Your friend, and I'll tell
you alibi it.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
No but yours did? Nielson just laid the whole thing
in your lamp? Your kids? Do you want to talk
to him? What'd you say? Well, he tells it he
was just long for the ride. You're the big wheel
on the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
He said that.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I said you could talk to him if you want him, Well.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
He ain't gonna make it. He ain't gonna lay it on.
Make you want to tell us you're a side of it. Yeah,
I'll tell you the way it happened. He'd lousy.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
But how do you like that?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Him saying, I'm no.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Wheel, I don't tell you, all right now, where the
queer come from?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I don't know. I thought you were gonna tell us
I'm doing that. I really don't know where it came from.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You turn up with twenty thousand dollars and twenty dollars bills,
and you asked us to believe that you don't know
where it was printed.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I'm not asking you anything. I tell you what I know.
That's it.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Well, tell us about your part.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Nielsen, Hunter and me were approached in Pitts by who
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
We're going that way again, all right.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So you don't believe me. That's the way it happened.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
The guy who approached you just walked up and said,
here's twenty thousand bucks, just like that.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Huh No, the deal was it? Neielsen, Hunter and me
were supposed to come out here. We were supposed to
check into a hotel and wait for a call. Guy
who called us would have the queer. He turned it
over to us and we'd pass it.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
You bought the counterfeiit? Yeah? What'd you pay for it?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Two and a half for twenty dollars?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, two and a half for twenty he paid the
other man we picked up.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah, we gave him twenty five hundred bucks.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
You ever seen a man before? What the man you
bought the queer from? Do you know him? No? I
never saw him before. He's not the man who made
the original contact in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
No, a guy back east was an old man.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
How old?
Speaker 6 (17:39):
I don't know, maybe fifty five sixteen round in there.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Not the fellow you met to night.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I told you that before. It's not the same man him.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
He was the name of any kind.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
No, he's just to call him Pop, that's all.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Pop. Give us a description of this man, Pop.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
What's in it for me?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
What do you got now?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Nothing?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
All right, it'll stay that way. You're in big trouble, Carmichael.
If you're smart at all, you're gonna cop out the
whole thing and cooperate with.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
Us and loves and nielson him all the time yelling
about how it was all set all the time saying
we hadn't made.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Sure. I'll go with you.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
I just want to see Nielson get his that's all.
I just want to see him get his. We're gonna
watch you to look at some pictures too.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I told you i'd go the roight. You just tell
me what you want to know if I got the answer?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
So of you?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Ara?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
What'd he tell you? Right? A?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Lowsy?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Nielsen? What do you tell you about how it happened?
You tell the way I did you.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Tell it that way?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Very much?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, sure that's the way it happened. Can't be told
me the other way?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And well, Neilson might give you an argument there.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Further interrogation of the other three men in the operation
served to corroborate the story that we've been given by Carmichael.
Twenty five hundred dollars in cash was found on the
fourth suspect. Once the other men were confronted with the
fact that Carmichael had told us everything he knew concerning
the operation, they all followed sue, But other than telling
us that they knew the head man and the counterfeiting
actors popped, they couldn't come up with any further information.
(18:53):
From the man who had been in the bar, we
learned that he'd met Pop in Pittsburgh. He also told
us that, as far as he knew, the counterfeiter had
been in prison at one time. However, the suspect was
unable to tell us in what state or on what
charges Pomp had served time. He went on to tell
us that he'd gotten the money in Pittsburgh and that
Pop had told him that he'd be contacted later. The
Secret Service had completed their analysis at the counterfeit bills,
(19:13):
and they told us that they were some of the
most perfect printing jobs that they'd run across. The counterfeiterated
made one major mistake, however, in the printing of the currency.
He'd impregnated the paper with small silken hairs so that
it would stand close inspection.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
The currency now in use is made with nylon hairs.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
The agent from the Secret Service told us they had
agents working on tracing the manufacture of the paper in
the hopes that they could.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Come up with a lead as to the identity of Pop.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
The four suspects were booked into the city jail Thursday,
August nineteenth.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
We ran the name Pop through.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Our moniker file of the forty seven cards turned over
to us by the record Bureau, nineteen of the suspects
listed matched the descriptions that we've been given. The pictures
of the men were pulled and shown to Carmichael and
the other three suspects. They were unable to give us
an identification. The name and description was sent to George Brackman, Sacramento,
and he sent us another one hundred and fifty possibles.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
These were checked out without result.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
The nickname and physical description of the man was sent
to It took us six weeks, working with a Secret
Service to check out these possibles a result. Who says
over fifth, Frank, and I got yet it by wait
a minute, we look at the gun. I go ahead,
Uh huh yeah, yeah, well it should check out.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
It's like, okay, we'll meet you. What's you got? Report
of the paper and the queer bills just came through.
Looks like we found pop.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
In checking the manufacturers of paper similar to that used
in the counterfeit twenty dollars bills, the Secret Service had
come up with the name of a small print shop
in the eastern section of Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
The paper used was of an unusual type and there
were not many orders for it.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
This particular shop had ordered large quantities of it in
the past and was continuing to use it. In checking
out the name of the man on the order blanks,
the Secret Service had found that he'd been convicted of
robbery and had served a term in the Federal penitentiary
in Atlanta. He'd been released and they had come to
California and opened a small print shop. We spent the
next two days checking the suspect out. His name was
(21:12):
given to Stanley Jackson, aged forty seven. For the next week,
the print shop and Jackson himself were kept under constant surveillance.
On Thursday, October fourteenth, at eleven fifty pm, the suspect
was followed to his print shop.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I'll cover the front of the shop to him.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Bride might come on right, Yeah, so now it sounds
like a pressed in it. Yeah, come on, back doors
around here? Can you see what's going on in there?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
No?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah, the wind is all painted over. What are you figured? No,
one doesn't leave us with a lot of choice. If
we do in and he's not punning countifit, we're gonna
make him so easy that we might never nail him. Yeah,
if we don't go in, he might get rid of
the place. We're in trouble air too. We're, like I said,
we haven't got ch choice away. All right, let's go.
What's going on? What are you doing in the wave office?
You're under the rest, we say.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Press, Rank, I got no right come in here like this.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I know my rights. You haven't got a warrant. You've
got no right to act like this. You want to
kill it? Rank? The place in the press, Jill, you're
in the green overlay. Take allect.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
You haven't got any right touching those their mind. They
belonged to me, mister. Where you get the place? Jackson?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
They're good, aren't they, mister?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
The very best? Where'd you get them? Made them?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Made them myself?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Where'd you learn engraving?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
In prison? When they sent me to prison?
Speaker 4 (22:27):
I learned all about engraving, real engraving, not full the process,
but the real thing, finest places I've ever seen, the
best beautiful money.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Isn't it best I've ever seen?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Pool?
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Anybody? Did it all myself? Pass it anywhere, fool anybody anyway?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, just look at it, mister. That's a genuine article,
isn't it?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Real money?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
It's perfect, absolutely perfect. Mister. No, you're wrong there. The
government didn't print it.
Speaker 7 (22:58):
Burning Alex Krmi, Howard Raymond Nielsen, Ernest Richard Hunter, Philip
Roger Harker, and Stanley Norman Jackson were tried and convicted
a violation of Title eighteen US Code, Section four seven
four printing and issuing counterfeit money. Violation of this title
is punishable by a fine of five thousand dollars and
imprisonment in a federal penitentiary for a period not to
(23:20):
exceed fifteen years.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
You have just heard Dragnet, the Authentic Story of your
Police Force in action and starring Jack Webb, A presentation
of the United States Armed Forces Radio Service, a
Ladies and gentlemen. The story you're about to hear is true.
The names have been changed to protect the innifant.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Drag Matt.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You're a detective sergeant. You're assigned a robbery detail. You
got a call from an informant telling you that three
known gangsters have moved into your city. You don't know
who they are or.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Why they're in Look ange of us, your job? Check
'em out with Wednesday, August fourth, with warm in Los Angeles.
We were working to day watch out of robbery detail.
My partner's Frank Smith, the boss's TV detective stad Ground.
My name is Friday. Were on our way out from
the office and.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It was ninety lamb when we got to the Osborne
Turkey's back steam room.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hot is it? Yeah? Must be del back there.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, oh yeah, I would buy your fast. Okay, Joe Jim.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Fuck he's bag of headly No, no, I under standing
grate for coals just to spend a brings to dream
by out.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Okay, you have my brother make them more. Talk me
about how it does the colt that sty as what
did they called it? Wood?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
That's a good idea, all right, right, I keep waiting
with the tubble blar, he's to check on the steam
p rim here.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That's okay, let's get out again.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Huh, I won't make me an happy. Sure, it's hot
deal going upstairs. I'm telling about yet what he got
for us? Delight?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Not going any place.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
But I thought I ought to throw you guys in
on it.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I saw a roll in here last night.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
It's have been about ten thirty nightman's out with a cold,
so I had to fill in a cold. Yeah, some
kind of virus or something. Oh yeah, come on, we
can target the office. Sit down here, mind if I
go over some of these builds while we talked, we'll
go ahead. Well, Bimbo pulls in here last night, really
carrying a load. I registered him and had Jimmy take
(01:59):
him upstairs.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
This guy's kind of wild, you know, rolling all over
the place. I wanted to get him upstairs to the room.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Figure need to sack out, and we wouldn't hear no
more from him. Yeah, well he had a different idea.
A couple of minutes later, he comes downstairs, wants to
know what's going on?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
What do you mean?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Wants to know where the steam room is, says he's
not gonna sit in the little room all night. He
pay for his steam bath. That's what he wants. Yeah,
when he starts to talk about his high powered friends
and this dealer out to poor, A kind of figured
it's something wrong.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Can tell you where the friends were? No, not right now.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I just mentioned a guy named Bud. Kept talking how
Bud was gonna be sore at him cause he got drunk.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Once.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
They said it a hundred times, how Bud was gonna
be real. Soort sounded to me like this, But it's
the big man of the deal.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I see no idea what the deal is though. Now.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Most he said was that when they left town, they
were all gonna have a lot of money, more money
than I'd ever seen.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
He got the name on this guy.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh, here's the register here. See yeah, I ain't see
right here?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Ernon Carmichael Los Angeles didn't give an address huh. Once
he mentioned he had to meet but at the hotel
down on the South Flower.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Didn't say which one.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Though, with flowers along the street, Well, that doesn't help me.
Didn't give any ideas at all of what the deal
was gonna be.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Huh.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
No, I must be a good one, though, Why you
say that well, when I took him up to his
room last night, I could see his clothes hang on
a chair. Yeah, on top of his coat. He had
his shoulder ulster. Looks like a forty five automatic in
it when I look at it. Guy that's carrying that
kind of muscle is figuring on scoring heavy.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Do you make any phone calls when he was here? Now?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Swing up, man, leave it alone. Figure you'd want to
go over it.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
It's a good idea. What time did he leave this one?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Jimmy said thirty? I figured sure he's sweet and on
he was gonna leave that? Or oh he called you?
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Laser told him when I thought there was something wrong.
You know, reading the guy left so early is that
he got a call from somebody. I guess it's the
guy that picked him up this Jimmy, see who it was? No,
did the next best thing though, Yeah, what's that? Got
the license number of the car.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Ten fifteen am. We got in touch of the Layton
Prince and Holland Stall sent a crew out to go
over the room. Frank put him a call to the
record bureau and he had the name Burnham. Carmichael checked.
There was no record on anyone answering the description that
we'd gotten from the manager of the Turkey's bath.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
In addition, the radiogram was sent to the Department of
Motor Vehicles in Pennsylvania asking for all.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Available information on the owner of the car bearing the
license number that we've been given.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Eleven thirty am, parlan Stall's crew finished checking the room
and they told us that they'd been able to lift
a complete set of poon fingerprints from a water glass.
They were photographed and classified. In checking our files, there
was no record of the prince. They were forwarded to
George bretton up a.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Sacramento of the CII and to the FBI in Washington,
d C.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Two days passed, on Friday, August sixth, we got the
word from DMV in Pennsylvanias that the car was registered
to Howard Nielsen. The radiogram also gave us a description
of the car and the registered owners addressed in Pittsburgh.
On receipt of this information, we got in touch with
the police department in Pittsburgh and found that Howard Budd
Nielson had a misdemeanor record. Late Friday afternoon, the kickback
(04:48):
from Washington, d C. Arrived with the information The finger
prints found in the room at the Turkish Bath were
those of Vernon Carmichael. His record listed arrests the petty
theft and robbery in Pennsylvania. He'd been brought to trial,
nobody had been acquitted. Both men were well known to
the police department in Pittsburgh as hoodlum. On Saturday morning,
the mud shots of both Nielsen and Carmichael arrived ten
(05:09):
to fifteen am. We met with Lieutenant Jack Smyers, and
we decided that the information coupled with the two men
made the incident worth investigation. The mug shots at the
pair were copied and the canvas of the hotels on
South Flower Street was started in an attempt to find
the residence of the suspects. The search went on for
another two days without results. Monday, August ninth, eleven forty
seven am, Frank and I got back to the office
(05:30):
from communications.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And now we're going to feel pretty silly of.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Carmichael and Nielsen are already back there. Yeah, it's getting
looked like the tip from Dell about the hotel on
Flower was office. Still a lot of places to check,
only exciting. Yeah, we got it for you. What Carmichael
and Nielson. We found the hotel.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
At ten thirty that morning, Officers Murphy and Rafferty had
gotten the first affirmative answer to their questions about the suspects.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
A room clerk and a small hotel at the corner of.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
South Flower Street and Bunker Hill Avenue had recognized the
mugshots of Comichael om Nielsen put out.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
The name of the third man in the trio was
identified as Ernest Cutter. A check of the name through.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Our records netted us no news and the name of
the description was forwarded again to Brayton unper mapping Bitsbord
for possible application and talking Lieutenant how to kick your
stad bound. Was decided to keep them in under twenty
four hours surveillance. Three additional teams of men from Robbery
Detail were assigned.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
To the duty.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
For the next seven days. The three men were under
constant watch. Their habits were regular, their movements during the
day followed the same general pattern. The kickback on Ernest
Tutter disclosed no criminal record. At the end of the
first week of watching, the minute was decided that the
next step in the operation was to place a microphone
in their room so that we might be able to
monitor their conversations. Frank and I got in touch with
(06:45):
the sound crew at the crime lab and we made
arrangements for them. The necessary permits were obtained from the
Federal Communications Commission, and the listening equipment itself was ready.
We made arrangements with radio car officers to pick up
the suspects for investigation. The sound crew Frank and I,
along with Murphy and Rapperty stood by for words that
the trio was.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
In custody Tuesday night nine. Should be getting word pretty quick, Yeah,
red red, come in red one. It's murshed. Yeah. Read
one to red two, come in red two.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Have you word yet?
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Four? No? O?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Not yet?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Where will set the manager's apartment?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Fit to post one? Moor to post one coming out
post one. Sounds like they got it. Then you want
to take it?
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Yeah, stand by red three. I'll post one the monitor.
I'll post one the monitor. Go ahead, monitor to hop
post one.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I permation received that suspects are in custody.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Repeat, suspects are in custody. Economics.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
I'll post one the monitor. I'll post one the monitor.
Message received, I'll post one out.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
You heard it? Yeah, Read one to red two and
red three read one to read two and red three.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Do you read me?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Red two and three?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Red one, right three to red one receiving clearly.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Red one to red three. Suspects are now in custody.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Proceed with installation of listening equipment over roger red one,
red three. Please keep contact well do red one red
three outs red one to red two. Come in red
two red Murph, Can you see the suspects apartment from
where you are?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Not?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Good, Joe, it's not in the hall and around the
corner first door.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Over red one to red three, come in red three.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Red three to red one.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Are you in the apartment yet, dad? Joe? With your
starter stall on the bug? Is there a radio in
the room?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, a small table model.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
It's on the night's dand next to the bed. Can
you fix that before you leave?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, I'll pull one of the wires so it won't work.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Good. Where are you putting the bug? We're landing under
the edge of the car.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Would do the door to the kitchen, would be able
to pick up the whole room there.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
There's nothing dou now until we get it finished there. Yeah,
we got the recorder all set up. Yeah, it's in
the room. Sound crew came in this afternoon. Maybe the
installation on it. Do you know how to work it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I think so, Jack, check me out on It's pretty simple,
just like playing a piano, press a key in the
way it goes.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well. I hope you got it. I've always had trouble
with him.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Last time out, I wanted to rewind one of the
spools and listen to something.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Ended up raising everything we as I remember that very well.
I was afraid you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Eleven fifteen pm, the installation of the listening equipment was
completed and Frank and I, along with Officer Pat Murphy,
took up our positions in the room we intended to
use as a monitoring post. Officer Rapper he went back
to the City Hall and told him that we'd finished
and we were ready to have the suspects released. In
the meantime, Carmichael, Nielsen and Hunter had been fingerprinted and mugged.
A search of their persons had failed to reveal any
(09:52):
incriminating evidence, and the time that they'd been held had
allowed us to make the necessary installation. After the trio
had been released, we received information that they were proceeding
toward the hotel. Frank Murphy, and I waited for them
at the monitor post to come into their room.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Twelve thirty five am. That's that. Get the recorder?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Huh? What you don't take care of the long frank? Yeah,
you say it's twelve thirty six am.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
That's shire. What would you do? Your boy one? Who?
Why you did though?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
That's what you would think?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
They had a reason.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
You're so smike, You tell me why?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Ah shut up? We had time. I ought you weren't
such a big man when he started asking you the
question joy a.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Time said now he was gonna come 'em all.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Why don't you shut there?
Speaker 6 (10:28):
Probably when you got tanked up and a circus sprat,
that's probably what tick him.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
What tip a couple of.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Uniform cop stop us on the rooting investigation? They got
nothing anything?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Onse you think you'll let us go?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Will do you do? You think you'll let us go?
Speaker 5 (10:40):
All right?
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Don't you sure?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I am very Uh?
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Turn on the radio where you get some music?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
And next time you get tanked him back there, I
talk a.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Room and all over town. That's why he picked us up.
You said something? What'd I say? You know what I said?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
And I'll tell you you'll be in a big Maybe.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
You don't tell me what I said to him.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
They pick me up.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
You said something.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I don't know what it was, but you shut off
your mouth.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Hey, honor, what's about at the radio?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I thought you got to turn it off.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
A moment.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
The shot and I say, do open your mouth anymore.
You got more trouble you can have.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
That's the way, un less to you.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Yeah, cause you guys don't shut up, I'm throw out
of here.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I'll shut up. Get your feet. They're not. So was
the radios.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
And that's the way it went for the next five days.
When the men were in the room, they argued continually.
They talked about the deal they were working on, but
from their conversation there was no way of learning what
they planned. When they left the room, they were constantly
under surveillance, but their movements were routine. They took their
meals in the same restaurant, They went to movies, they
sat in bars, always together. During the time they were
(11:50):
out of the apartment, they made no local contacts. They
received no telephone calls, they made none. We knew that
they were planning something, but.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
There was no way of knowing what it was.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
All conversation in the room was re recorded and listened
to over and over again, and I hope that we
could come up with some kind of a lead, but
the time spent in replaying the recordings and that it
is nothing from what they'd said. We figured that whatever
they were planning would take place on either Tuesday, August seventeenth,
or on Wednesday, August eighteenth. On Tuesday, three way cars
were assigned to the streets in front of the hotel,
(12:18):
but the suspects acted as usual. On Wednesday, they didn't
leave their room. Frank Murphy and I continued to wait
on the streets outside. Three other teams of men were
standing by and undercover cars. Nine thirty pm, I said, telephone,
get the recording er yet.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Oh yeah, we right, okay, we'll leave right now. Yep,
what Yeah, that's where we got it right oopee about
thirty nine?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Hey, how are we gonna know you?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
So? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I got it right? Hey, who is that the contact?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, there's the stuff just got in.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
We're supposed to pick it up right away.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Oh that's like they we'd got to workout.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Let us go ship, we'll get it out. I'll post one.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
The unit's one K eight nine one K eight eight
one K eight seven. Suspects are leaving room. Suspects are
leaving room. I'll post one out, all right, let's go.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I wish we knew what it was. It sounds like
it might be a narcotics so.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
It could be. It doesn't make a lot of difference,
does it. Yeah, at least we know it's something.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
By the time we got to the street, the suspects
were getting into their car and pulling away from the curb.
Frank Murphy and I got to our car and followed them.
They drove down South Flower to the corner of Palm
Drive and turned.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Left three blocks further.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
They pulled into a gas station and are currently asked directions.
They turned south on Broadway and drove about a mile.
At Santa Barbara Avenue, they turned left again and drove
three blocks. They stopped and parked the car in front
of a small bar. We informed the other units of
the activity and asked them to stand by in the area.
Carmichael got out of the car and entered the bar.
Murphy left us and.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Entered the bar after him.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Carmichael returned in a few minutes with another man. The
two of them got back into the car and they talked.
At the end of that time, all four of the
man got out of the automobile and then they.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Entered the bar.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Shortly after that, Carmichael, Nielsen, and Hunter walked out of
the place. Carmichael was carrying a small package wrapped in
plain brown paper and tied with a stream. The fourth
man wasn't with him. Frank and I got out of
our car and approached the men as they stood talking.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I'd hold it up. Police officers over there. Put your
hands on that wall.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It's going on.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Get your hands up there, Frankie wanted checking the package again.
Keep your hands on that wall, Lassie deal.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I hope you're a happy Carmichael, I'll hep, you're real happy.
What are you talking about. I've got to leave this
one to you.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
You really took care of the hand. Still and keep quiet,
how about it? Frank I don't know, bullieve me. Where's money?
Twenty dollars bills, a few fifteen twenty thousand dollars worn't
queer as far as I can tell us. Good? And
where's that put his all those twenty thousand dollars here? Yeah,
let's find out where they got it. U ten oh
(15:05):
two am.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
The four suspects were taken into custody and removed to
the City Hall for interrogation.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
We got in touch with the Secret Service and.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Asked them to come over to the office to check
on the currency. The agent arrived and, after looking at
the money, pointed out several minute mistakes that had been
made in the engraving of the plates. He went on
to explain, however, that this particular printing was one of
the best that he'd ever seen. He told us that
the paper used in the bills would be analyzed and
that we'd received copies of the reports as soon as
they were finished. Twelve fourteen am. While Murphy, Rafferty and
(15:34):
the Secret Service man questioned Nielsen in the interrogation room,
Frank and I talked to Carmichael in the squad room.
We questioned him for about an hour, but he refused
to say anything that would help us get a lead
to the source of the counterfeit.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
One thirty am. How long had figure you can keep
us up, Carmichael.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I don't know what you tell card I come off
and we're getting tired of planned kid games here. We
wanna know where the quair came from.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Now who says it's queer? Guy that printed it was
pretty sloppy, made a lot of mistakes. Joe, yeahmor see
you've been Yeah, sure, I bet yeah. How you doing nothing?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Nielson won't say word. Gives it to us if you
didn't know what was going on, says he just went
out there to pick.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Up a package. They see who they were running the
air and for tells him just he went along for
the ride.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
The whole thing was Carmichael's idea.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Mm hm.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
We thought maybe we'd go to work one hundred see
what we can get from him.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Okay, you're gonna stick with Carmichael? Yeah, I guess so
from what we heard in the room. If there's gonna
be a break, I got a hunch it's gonna come
from him. Okay, you got anything about us? Know right away.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Don't take man's back again. Your friend, and I'll tell
you alibi it.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
No but yours did? Nielson just laid the whole thing
in your lamp? Your kids? Do you want to talk
to him? What'd you say? Well, he tells it he
was just long for the ride. You're the big wheel
on the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
He said that.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I said you could talk to him if you want him, Well.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
He ain't gonna make it. He ain't gonna lay it on.
Make you want to tell us you're a side of it. Yeah,
I'll tell you the way it happened. He'd lousy.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
But how do you like that?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Him saying, I'm no.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Wheel, I don't tell you, all right now, where the
queer come from?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I don't know. I thought you were gonna tell us
I'm doing that. I really don't know where it came from.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You turn up with twenty thousand dollars and twenty dollars bills,
and you asked us to believe that you don't know
where it was printed.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I'm not asking you anything. I tell you what I know.
That's it.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Well, tell us about your part.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Nielsen, Hunter and me were approached in Pitts by who
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
We're going that way again, all right.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So you don't believe me. That's the way it happened.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
The guy who approached you just walked up and said,
here's twenty thousand bucks, just like that.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Huh No, the deal was it? Neielsen, Hunter and me
were supposed to come out here. We were supposed to
check into a hotel and wait for a call. Guy
who called us would have the queer. He turned it
over to us and we'd pass it.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
You bought the counterfeiit? Yeah? What'd you pay for it?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Two and a half for twenty dollars?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, two and a half for twenty he paid the
other man we picked up.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah, we gave him twenty five hundred bucks.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
You ever seen a man before? What the man you
bought the queer from? Do you know him? No? I
never saw him before. He's not the man who made
the original contact in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
No, a guy back east was an old man.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
How old?
Speaker 6 (17:39):
I don't know, maybe fifty five sixteen round in there.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Not the fellow you met to night.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I told you that before. It's not the same man him.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
He was the name of any kind.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
No, he's just to call him Pop, that's all.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Pop. Give us a description of this man, Pop.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
What's in it for me?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
What do you got now?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Nothing?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
All right, it'll stay that way. You're in big trouble, Carmichael.
If you're smart at all, you're gonna cop out the
whole thing and cooperate with.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
Us and loves and nielson him all the time yelling
about how it was all set all the time saying
we hadn't made.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Sure. I'll go with you.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
I just want to see Nielson get his that's all.
I just want to see him get his. We're gonna
watch you to look at some pictures too.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I told you i'd go the roight. You just tell
me what you want to know if I got the answer?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
So of you?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Ara?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
What'd he tell you? Right? A?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Lowsy?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Nielsen? What do you tell you about how it happened?
You tell the way I did you.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Tell it that way?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Very much?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, sure that's the way it happened. Can't be told
me the other way?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And well, Neilson might give you an argument there.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Further interrogation of the other three men in the operation
served to corroborate the story that we've been given by Carmichael.
Twenty five hundred dollars in cash was found on the
fourth suspect. Once the other men were confronted with the
fact that Carmichael had told us everything he knew concerning
the operation, they all followed sue, But other than telling
us that they knew the head man and the counterfeiting
actors popped, they couldn't come up with any further information.
(18:53):
From the man who had been in the bar, we
learned that he'd met Pop in Pittsburgh. He also told
us that, as far as he knew, the counterfeiter had
been in prison at one time. However, the suspect was
unable to tell us in what state or on what
charges Pomp had served time. He went on to tell
us that he'd gotten the money in Pittsburgh and that
Pop had told him that he'd be contacted later. The
Secret Service had completed their analysis at the counterfeit bills,
(19:13):
and they told us that they were some of the
most perfect printing jobs that they'd run across. The counterfeiterated
made one major mistake, however, in the printing of the currency.
He'd impregnated the paper with small silken hairs so that
it would stand close inspection.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
The currency now in use is made with nylon hairs.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
The agent from the Secret Service told us they had
agents working on tracing the manufacture of the paper in
the hopes that they could.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Come up with a lead as to the identity of Pop.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
The four suspects were booked into the city jail Thursday,
August nineteenth.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
We ran the name Pop through.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Our moniker file of the forty seven cards turned over
to us by the record Bureau, nineteen of the suspects
listed matched the descriptions that we've been given. The pictures
of the men were pulled and shown to Carmichael and
the other three suspects. They were unable to give us
an identification. The name and description was sent to George Brackman, Sacramento,
and he sent us another one hundred and fifty possibles.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
These were checked out without result.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
The nickname and physical description of the man was sent
to It took us six weeks, working with a Secret
Service to check out these possibles a result. Who says
over fifth, Frank, and I got yet it by wait
a minute, we look at the gun. I go ahead,
Uh huh yeah, yeah, well it should check out.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
It's like, okay, we'll meet you. What's you got? Report
of the paper and the queer bills just came through.
Looks like we found pop.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
In checking the manufacturers of paper similar to that used
in the counterfeit twenty dollars bills, the Secret Service had
come up with the name of a small print shop
in the eastern section of Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
The paper used was of an unusual type and there
were not many orders for it.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
This particular shop had ordered large quantities of it in
the past and was continuing to use it. In checking
out the name of the man on the order blanks,
the Secret Service had found that he'd been convicted of
robbery and had served a term in the Federal penitentiary
in Atlanta. He'd been released and they had come to
California and opened a small print shop. We spent the
next two days checking the suspect out. His name was
(21:12):
given to Stanley Jackson, aged forty seven. For the next week,
the print shop and Jackson himself were kept under constant surveillance.
On Thursday, October fourteenth, at eleven fifty pm, the suspect
was followed to his print shop.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I'll cover the front of the shop to him.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Bride might come on right, Yeah, so now it sounds
like a pressed in it. Yeah, come on, back doors
around here? Can you see what's going on in there?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
No?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah, the wind is all painted over. What are you figured? No,
one doesn't leave us with a lot of choice. If
we do in and he's not punning countifit, we're gonna
make him so easy that we might never nail him. Yeah,
if we don't go in, he might get rid of
the place. We're in trouble air too. We're, like I said,
we haven't got ch choice away. All right, let's go.
What's going on? What are you doing in the wave office?
You're under the rest, we say.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Press, Rank, I got no right come in here like this.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I know my rights. You haven't got a warrant. You've
got no right to act like this. You want to
kill it? Rank? The place in the press, Jill, you're
in the green overlay. Take allect.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
You haven't got any right touching those their mind. They
belonged to me, mister. Where you get the place? Jackson?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
They're good, aren't they, mister?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
The very best? Where'd you get them? Made them?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Made them myself?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Where'd you learn engraving?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
In prison? When they sent me to prison?
Speaker 4 (22:27):
I learned all about engraving, real engraving, not full the process,
but the real thing, finest places I've ever seen, the
best beautiful money.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Isn't it best I've ever seen?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Pool?
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Anybody? Did it all myself? Pass it anywhere, fool anybody anyway?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, just look at it, mister. That's a genuine article,
isn't it?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Real money?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
It's perfect, absolutely perfect. Mister. No, you're wrong there. The
government didn't print it.
Speaker 7 (22:58):
Burning Alex Krmi, Howard Raymond Nielsen, Ernest Richard Hunter, Philip
Roger Harker, and Stanley Norman Jackson were tried and convicted
a violation of Title eighteen US Code, Section four seven
four printing and issuing counterfeit money. Violation of this title
is punishable by a fine of five thousand dollars and
imprisonment in a federal penitentiary for a period not to
(23:20):
exceed fifteen years.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
You have just heard Dragnet, the Authentic Story of your
Police Force in action and starring Jack Webb, A presentation
of the United States Armed Forces Radio Service, a
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