Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Ladies and gentlemen. The story you're about to hear is true.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The names have been changed to protect the innocent drag men.
You're a detective sergeant. You're assigned a robbery detail. You
get a call from an informant telling you that three
known gangsters have moved into your city. You don't know
(00:32):
who they are or why they're in Los Angeles. Your
job check them out.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It was Wednesday, August fourth, was lauram in Los Angeles.
We were working the day Watch out of robbery detail.
My partner's Frank Smith. The boss's chiev Detective stad Brown.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
My name is Friday. We're on our way out from
the office.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
And it was nine forty two am when we got
to the Osbourne Turkish band steam Rooms, Hot, didn't it?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Be Dell back there, yeah, Del Yeah, it was Friday
and Smith.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I'll be right with you. Okay, Hey Joe, did you
ever have one of these or what turkey spats? You
ever had one? No? No, I never have.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Understand they're great for coals. He just sit there and
it burns some germs right out.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It's great. Do you ever have one? No?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Al but Ireland and my brother in law he takes
them all the time, tells me about how it does
for coals. Next time he has one.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Of they, I'll go with him. That's a good idea.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
H Sorry, I keep you waiting. We've been having trouble
with the boiler. You gotta keep a close check on
the steam pressure in here. That's okay, let's get out
of here. Huh, that won't make me an happy? Sure
is hot deal?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Going upstairs? We can talk there. Okay, what do he
got for us? Dell?
Speaker 4 (01:44):
I might not go anyplace, but I thought I ought
to fill you guys in on it fell.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
A roll in here last night.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Must have been about ten thirty nightman's out with a coal,
So I had to fill in a coal.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, some kind of virus or something. Oh yeah, come on.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
We can talk in the office. Sit down here, Mind
if I go over some of these bills while we talk?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Oh go ahead.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Well, this bimbo pulls in here last night really carrying
a load. I registered him and had Jimmy take him upstairs.
Guy's kind of loud, you know, rolling all over the place.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I wanted to get him upstairs to a room figure
and he'd.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Sack out and we wouldn't hear no more from him. Well,
he had a different idea. A couple of minutes later,
he comes downstairs, wants to know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
What do you mean?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Wants to know where the steam room is. Says he's
not going to sit in the little room all night.
He paid for his steam bath, that's.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
What he wants. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
When he starts to talk about his high powered friends
and this dealer out to play, kind of figured something wrong.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Did you tell you where the friends were?
Speaker 4 (02:34):
No, not right now. I just mentioned a guy named Bud.
Kept talking how Bud was going to be sore at
Hi because he got drunk. Must have said it a
hundred times, how Bud was going to be real sore.
Sounded to me like this, But is the big man
of the deal?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I see no idea what the deal is though.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
No.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Most he said was that when they left town, they
were all gonna have a lot of money, more money
than I'd ever seen.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
He got the name on this guy.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Oh, here's a register, see he see right here? Earned
Carmichael Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Didn't give an address. Huh.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Once he mentioned he had to meet but at the
hotel down on South Flower.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Didn't say which one.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Though, well, flowers along street, Dell, that doesn't help much.
Didn't give any ideas at all of what the deal
was gonna be. Huh, Now, I must be a good one, though, Well,
why do you say that?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, when I took him.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Up to his room last night, I could see his
clothes hand on a chair, you know, on top of
his coat.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
He had a shoulder holster looked like a forty five
automatic in it.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Why I look at it, guy that's carrying that kind
of muscles figuring on scooring heavy?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Do you make any phone calls while he was here? Now?
Anybody had the room since he left? No? I told
the clean up man to leave it alone. Figure you'd
want to go over. It's a good idea. What time
do you leave this morning? Jimmy says it was about
seven thirty.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
I figured sure he'd sleep most of the morning, but
I don't known he was going to leave that or
oh he had to call you last night.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I want we better take a look at that room.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Dell might be able to come up with something and
it'll tell us who he is. I got something else
for you, Yeah, what's that?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I mentioned this?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Carmichael to Jimmy last night told him, and I thought
there was something wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
The reason the guy left so early is that he
got a call from somebody. I guess it's the guy
that picked him up this Jimmy, see who it was. No,
did the next best thing though, got the license number
of the car.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Ten fifteen am we got in touch with the Layton
Prince and Harlan Stall sent a crew out to go
over the room. Frank put in a call to the
record bureau and he had the name Vernon Carmichael checked.
There was no record on anyone answering the description that
we'd gotten from the manager of the Turkish baths. In addition,
a radiogram was sent to the Department of Motor Vehicles
in Pennsylvania asking for all available information on the owner
of the car bearing the license number that we've been given.
(04:31):
Eleven thirty am, Harland Stall's crew finished checking the room
and they told us that they'd been able to lift
a complete set of clean fingerprints from a water glass.
They were photographed and classified. In checking our files, there
was no record of the Prince. They were forwarded to
George Bretton up at Sacramento, to CII, and to the FBI.
In Washington, d C. Two days passed. On Friday, August sixth,
(04:51):
we got the word from DMV in Pennsylvania that the
car was registered to Howard Nielsen. The radiogram also gave
us a description of the car and the registered owners
address in Pittsburgh. On receipt of this information, we got
in touch with the police department in Pittsburgh and found
that Howard Budd Nielsen had a misdemeanor record.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Late Friday afternoon, the kickback from Washington, d C.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Arrived with the information the fingerprints found in the room
at the Turkish Bath where those of Vernon Carmichael. His
record listed arrests for petty theft and robbery in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
He'd been brought to trial, but he'd been acquitted.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Both men were well known to the police department in
Pittsburgh as hoodlums. On Saturday morning, the mugshots of both
Nielson and Carmichael arrived ten fifteen am. We met with
Lieutenant Jack Smiers and we decided that the information, coupled
with the records of the two men, made the incident
worth investigation. The mug shots of the pair were copied
and a canvas of the hotels on South Flower Street
was started in an attempt to find the residence of
(05:43):
the suspects. The search went on for another two days
without results. Monday, August ninth, eleven forty seven am, Frank
and I got back to the office from communications, and
now we're going to feel pretty silly of Carmichael.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
And Nielson are already back there.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, it's begetting to look like the tip from Dell
about the hotel on Flower was off. Still a lot
of places to check, though, y col fiding. Yeah, we
got it for you. What Carmichael and Nielsen? We found
the hotel. At ten point thirty that morning, Officers Murphy
and Rafferty had gotten the first affirmative answer to their
(06:17):
questions about the suspects.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
A room clerk in a.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Small hotel at the corner of South Flower Street and
Bunker Hill Avenue had recognized the mugshots of Carmichael and Nielsen.
Further questioning brought out the name of the third man
in the trio. He was identified as Ernest Hunter. A
check of the name through our records netted us no
new information on him, and the name of the description
was forwarded again to Breton up at CII and Sacramento,
and again to Pittsburgh for possible identification. In talks with
(06:41):
Lieutenant Smiers and Cheap detectives, Thad Brown was decided to
keep the man under twenty four hour surveillance. Three additional
teams of men from Robbery Detail were assigned to the duty.
For the next seven days, the three men were under
constant watch. Their habits were regular, their movements during the
day followed the same general pattern the kickback on Ernest
Hunter disclosed criminal record. At the end of the first
(07:02):
week of watching the Manute was decided that the next
step in the operation was to place a microphone in
their room so that we might be able to monitor
their conversations. Frank and I got in touch with the
sound crew at the crime Lab and we made arrangements
for them. The necessary permits were obtained from the Federal
Communications Commission, and the listening equipment itself was ready. We
made arrangements with radio car officers to pick up the
suspects for investigation.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
The sound crew.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Frank and I, along with Murphy and Rafferty, stood by
for a word that the trio.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Was in custody Tuesday night.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Should be getting word pretty quick, yeah one, Come in
red one.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
That's marsh yeah. Read one to red two, come in
red two. Anywhere yet, Gord, no, no yet.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
Whirls at the manager's apartment.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Monitored ut post one, monitored post one, coming one.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Sounds like they got it. Now you want to take it?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, stand by red three. I'll post won the monitor
out post one the monitor, go ahead, monitor.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
To outpost one. Information received that suspects are in custody. Repeat,
suspects are in custody. Acknowledge.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'll post one the monitor. I'll post one the monitor.
Message received. I'll post one up. You heard it now?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Read one to red two and red three, Red one
to red two and red three.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Do you read me?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Red two and three, Red red one, read two, Red
three to red one receiving clearly read one to red three.
Suspects are now in custody. Proceed with installation of listening equipment.
Over roger Red one, Red three. Please keep contact.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
We'll do Red one, Red three out.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Red one to red two. Come in red two, merph.
Can you see the suspects apartment from where you are?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I've got Joe.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
It's down the hall and around the corner.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
First or over read one to red three. Come in
red three.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
Brad's rede a red one.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Are you in the apartment.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Yet, yeah, Joe, we just started to stall the bug.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Is there a radio in the room.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Yeah, a small table model. It's on the night stand
next to the.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Bad Can you fix that before you leave? Yeah, I'll
put one of the wires so it won't work good.
Where are you put in the bug?
Speaker 5 (09:22):
We're landing uner the edge of the carpet. Hear the
door to the kitchen. Should be able to pick up
the whole room from there.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
There's nothing to do now until we get it finished. Now.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, we got the recorder all set out. Yeah, it's
in the room. Sound crew came in this afternoon, made
the installation on it. Do you know how to work it?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah? I think so.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Jack checked me out and it's pretty simple. Just like
playing a piano, press a key in the way it goes.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Well. I hope you got it. I've always had trouble
with him.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Last time out, I wanted to rewind one of the
spools and listen to something, ended up erasing everything. We yes,
I remember that very well. I was afraid you wouldn't.
Eleven fifteen pm. The installation of the listening equipment was completed,
and Frank and I, along with Officer Pat Murphy, we
took up our positions in the room.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
We intended to use as a monitoring post.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Officer Rapperty went back to the city Hall and told
them that we'd finished and we were ready to have
the suspects released. In the meantime, Carmichael, Nielsen, and Hunter
had been fingerprinted and mugged. A search of their persons
had failed to reveal any incriminating evidence, and the time
that they'd been held it allowed us to make the
necessary installation. After the trio had been released, we received
information that they were proceeding towards the hotel. Frank, Murphy
(10:24):
and I waited for them at the monitor post to
come into their room. Twelve thirty five am.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
That's that.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Get the recorder. Huh, you don't take care of the
log Frank, Yeah, say it's twelve thirty six am.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
That's it, logy deal box.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
Want to ask us a questions as though that's what
you would think they had a reason use us much?
Speaker 5 (10:43):
You tell me why shut up?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Well you have Tom Michael, you weren't such a big
man way you started asking you the questions time said,
I was going to Tom?
Speaker 5 (10:49):
Why don't you shut you?
Speaker 6 (10:50):
Probably when you got typed up in a trick, that's probably
what tipped it.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
What tip a couple of uniform cop stop us on
a routine investigation. They got nothing anything, honestly, think they'd
let us go.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Well do you do you think you'll let us go?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Oh? Why don't you?
Speaker 5 (11:02):
You're right?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Hun yuh? Turn on the radio?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Way?
Speaker 5 (11:06):
Do you get some music? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
And next time you get tanked the back here, I
don't go roman all over time.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
That's why they picked us up.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
You said something? What'd I say?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Do you know what that that?
Speaker 5 (11:18):
I'll tell you. You'll be in a thing now. You'll
tell me what I said to they did me. I'll
go ahead. Tell you said something. I don't know whether why,
but you shut off your mouth.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Hey, I know what's about with the radio?
Speaker 6 (11:27):
Much you're gonna turn it off on time?
Speaker 5 (11:31):
If he broke and do wor uh? I doesn't imagine
any And at the sack, I the ang you shot
for a while.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Do you open your mouth anymore?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
You got more trouble?
Speaker 5 (11:38):
You can hand that's away unless to you. Yeah, Now
you guys don't shut up. I'm gonna throw up.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, I hear. I'm'a shut up getting sleep tonight night
still because the radio buss And that's the way it
went for the next five days. When the men were
in the room, they argued continually. They talked about the
deal they were working on, but from their conversation there
was no way of learning what they planned. When they
left the room. They were constantly under surveillance, but their
(12:02):
movements were routine. They took their meals in the same restaurant,
they went to movies, they sat in bars, always together.
During the time they were out of the apartment, they
made no local contacts, They received no telephone calls, they
made none.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
We knew that they were planning something, but there was
no way of knowing what it was.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
All conversation in the room was recorded and listened to
over and over again in the hope that we could
come up with some kind of a lead, but the
time spent in replaying the recordings and netted us nothing.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
From what they'd said.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
We figured that whatever they were planning would take place
on either Tuesday, August seventeenth or on Wednesday, August eighteen.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
On Tuesday, three way.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Cars were assigned to the streets in front of the hotel,
but the suspects acted as usual on Wednesday. They didn't
leave their room. Frank Murphy and I continued to wait
on the streets outside. Three other teams of men were
standing by and undercover cars. Nine thirty pm as their telephone,
get the recorder.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yep, nine thirty one pm.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
We right, okay, well.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Leave right now. Yep.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
What Yeah, that's the where we got right, we'll see
about thirty nine right. Hey, uh, how are we gonna
know you? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (13:15):
Yeah, I got it right.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
Hey, who is that to come back?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Those the stuff just got in.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
We're supposed to pick it up right away. Oh, looks like. Hey,
we got to work.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Now, let's go.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
That's it. We'll get it out. I'll post one.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
The unit's one K eight nine one K eight eight
one K eight seven. Suspects are leaving room. Suspects are
leaving room. I'll post one out, all right, let's go.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I wish we knew who it was, like it might
be a narcotics Well it could be.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Doesn't make a lot of difference, does it. Yeah, at
least we know it's something. By the time we got
to the street. The suspects were getting into their car
and pulling away from the curb. Frank, Murphy and I
got to our car and followed them. They drove down
South Flower to the corner of Calm Drive and turned left.
Three blocks further, they pulled into a gas station and
apparently asked directions. They turned south on Broadway and drove
(14:04):
about a mile. At Santa Barbara Avenue, they turned left
again and drove three blocks. They stopped and parked the
con front of a small bar. We informed the other
units of the activity and asked them to stand by
in the area. Carmichael got out of the car and
ended the bar. Murphy left us and ended the bar
after him. Carmichael returned in a few minutes with another man.
The two of them got back into the car and
(14:25):
they talked. At the end of that time, all four
of the men got out of the automobile and then
they entered the bar. Shortly after that, Carmichael, Nielsen, and
Hunter walked out of the place. Carmichael was carrying a
small package wrapped in plain brown paper and tied with
a string.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
The fourth man wasn't with him.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Frank and I got out of our car and approached
the men as they stood talking.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I'd hold it up. Police officers over there. Put hands
up on that wall.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
That's going on.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Get their hands up there. Frankie checking the package. Yeah,
keep your hands on that wall, Lassie deal. I hope
you're happy. Carmichael, I hope your real hat? What are
you talking about. I've got to lay this one to you.
You really took care of the hand. Still and keep quiet.
How about I think I don't know, will you meet?
Where's money? Twenty dollar bills?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Few fifteen twenty thousand dollars worth queer as far as
I can tell us?
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Good? And where's that?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Put us all those twenty thousand dollars here? Yeah, let's
find out where they got it. Ten oh two am
the four suspects were taken into custody and removed to
the City Hall for interrogation. We got in touch with
the Secret Service and asked them to come over to
(15:30):
the office to check on the currency. The agent arrived and,
after looking at the money, pointed out several minute mistakes
that had been made in the engraving of the plates.
He went on to explain, however, that this particular printing
was one of the best that he'd ever seen. He
told us that the paper used in the bills would
be analyzed and that we'd receive copies of the reports
as soon as they were finished.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Twelve fourteen am.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
While Murphy, Rafferty and the Secret Service man questioned Nielsen
in the interrogation room, Frank and I talked to Carmichael
in the squad room. We questioned him for about an hour,
but he refused to say anything that would help us
get a lead to the source of the counter fit.
One th am, how long you figure and keep this up? Carmichael,
I don't know what you're talking. I'll not come off,
but we're getting tired of playing kid games here. We
want to know where the queer came from. Now who
says it's queer? Guy that printed it was pretty sloppy,
(16:10):
made a lot of mistakes. Joe yammer, see you man, Yeah,
be right back. Yeah, how you doing nothing? Nielsen won't
say a word. He gives it to Hus that he
didn't know what was going on, says he just went
out there to pick up a package. They say who
they were running the errand for tells it just he
went along for the ride. The whole thing was Carmichael's idea.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
M h.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
We thought maybe we'd go to work on Hunter, see
what we can get from him. Okay, you're gonna stick
with Carmichael? Yeah, I guess so from what we heard
in the room. If there's gonna be a break, I
got a hunch it's gonna come from him. Okay, you
got anything about us? Know right away?
Speaker 5 (16:41):
A big man's back again, your friend. They'll tell you
all about it.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
No, but yours? Did? Nielson just laid the whole thing
in your lap? Your kid? Do you want to talk
to him? What'd he say? Wait, he tells it. He
was just long for the ride. You're the big wheel
in the whole thing. He said that. I said you
could talk to him if you want to.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Well, he ain't gonna make it. He ain't gonna lay
it on make you want to tell us your side
of it? Yeah, I'll tell you the way it happened,
had wellsy, But how do you like that? Him saying
I know whell I'll.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Tell you all right now? Where the queer come from?
I don't know. I thought you were going to tell
us I'm doing that. I really don't know where he
came from.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
You turn up with twenty thousand dollars and twenty dollars bills,
and you asked us to believe that you don't know
where it was printed.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I'm not asking you anything. I'm telling you what I know.
That's it. We'll tell us about your part. Nielsen, Hunter
and me were approached in Pitts by who I don't know.
We're going that way again, all right, so you don't
believe me. That's the way it happened.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
The guy who approached it, he just walked up and said,
here's twenty thousand bucks, just like that.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Huh.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
No, the deal was it?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Nielsen Hunter and me were supposed to come out here.
We were supposed to check into a hotel and wait
for a call. Guy who called us would had the queer.
He turned it over to us and we'd pass it.
You bought the counterfeit? Yeah? What'd you pay for it?
Two and a half for twenty dollars?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, two and a half for twenty you paid the
other man we picked up, Yeah, we gave him twenty
five hundred bucks.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
You ever seen the man before? What the man you
bought the queer from? Do you know him? No? I
never saw him before. He's not the man who made
the original contact in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
No, a guy back east was an old man. How old,
I don't know, maybe fifty five sixty around in there.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Not the fellow you met the night I told you
that before. It's not the same man. Rim was the
name of it. No, just to call him Pop, that's all. Pop.
Give us a description of this man. Pop.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
What's in it for me?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
What do you got now? Nothing?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
All right, it'll stay that way. You're in big trouble, Carmichael.
If you're smart at all, you're gonna cop up the
whole thing and cooperate with us and Lowsi and Nielsen
him all the time, yelling about how it was all set,
all the time, saying we had it made.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I'll go with you. I just want to see Nielson
get his that's all. Just want to see him get his.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
We're gonna want you to look at some pictures too.
I told you i'd go the rot. You just tell
me what you want to know. If I got the answer,
so of you are? What'd he tell you at Lowsy Nielsen?
What do you tell you about how it happened? You
tell you the way I did you tell it that
way pretty much.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, sure, that's the way it happened. Can't be toltal
the other way? Yeah, well, Neilson might give you an
argument there.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Further interrogation of the other three men in the operation
serve to corroborate the story that we've been given by Carmichael.
Twenty five hundred dollars in cash was found on the
fourth suspect. Once the other men were confronted with the
fact that Carmichael had told us everything he knew concerning
the operation, they all followed suit. But other than telling
us that they knew the head man and the counterfeiting
actors Pop, they couldn't come up with any further information.
From the man who'd been in the bar, we learned
(19:07):
that he'd met Pop in Pittsburgh. He also told us that,
as far as he knew, the counterfeiter had been in
prison at one time or another. However, the suspect was
unable to tell us in what state or on what
charges Pop had served time. He went on to tell
us that he'd gotten the money in Pittsburgh and that
Pop had told him that he'd be contacted later. The
Secret Service had completed their analysis at the counterfeit bills,
and they told us that they were some of the
most perfect printing jobs that they'd run across.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
The counterfeiter had.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Made one major mistake, however, in the printing of the currency.
He'd impregnated the paper with small silken hairs so that
it would stand close inspection.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
The currency now in use is made with nylon hairs.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
The agent from the Secret Service told us they had
agents working on tracing the manufacture of the paper in
the hopes that they could come up with the lead.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
As to the identity of Pop.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
The four suspects were booked into the city jail Thursday,
August nineteenth.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
We ran the name Pop through our Moniker file.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Of the forty seven cards turned over to us by
the record bureau, nineteen of the s suspects listed matched
the descriptions that we've been given. The pictures of the
men were pulled and shown to Clarmichael and the other
three suspects. They were unable to give us my identification.
The name and description was sent to George Breton and Sacramento,
and he sent us another one hundred and fifty possibles.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
These were checked out without result.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
The nickname and physical description of the man was sent
to Washington and we got back over a thousand names
and pictures. It took us six weeks working with the
Secret Service to check out these possibles. The results nothing.
Tuesday October fifth, Frank and I got back to the office.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I get it robbery Friday.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah, by wait a minute while I get it down,
all right, go ahead, uh huh yeah, you know, well,
let's should.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Check out, like, okay, we'll meet you. What you got?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Report of the paper and the queer bills just came through. Yeah,
looks like we found pop. In checking the manufacturers of
paper similar to that used in the counterfeit twenty dollars bills,
the Secret Service had come up with the name of
a small print shop in the eastern section of Los Angeles.
The paper used was of an unusual type and there
(21:12):
were not many.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Orders for it.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
This particular shop had ordered large quantities of it in
the past and was continuing to use it. In checking
out the name of the man on the order blanks,
the Secret Service had found that he'd been convicted of
robbery and had served a term in the Federal penitentiary
in Atlanta. He'd been released and had come to California
and opened a small print shop. We spent the next
two days checking the suspect out. His name was given
(21:35):
to Stanley Jackson, aged forty seven. For the next week,
the print shop and Jackson himself were kept under constant surveillance.
On Thursday, October fourteenth, at eleven to fifty pm, the
suspect was followed.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
To his print shop.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I'll come to the front the shop, show right, then,
come on, rank, yeah, yeh yeah, it sounds like a
pressed enter. Come on, back doors around here? You see
what's going on in there? No yet the windows all
(22:07):
painted over. Well you figured, No, it doesn't leave us
with a lot of choice. If we do in them,
he's not printing counterfeit. We're gonna make them so hiky
that we might never nail him. Yeah, but if we
don't go an they might get rid of the places
we're in trouble there too.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
And you're, like I said, we haven't got much choice
that way. All right, let's go.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (22:24):
What are you doing the wace officers? You're under arrest
sake press rank right, I got no right to count
me in here like this. I know my rights. You
haven't got a warrant. You've got no right to act
like this. You want to kill it, Frank, I gotta
go a place for in the press. Show you do
in the green Overlet take a look. You haven't got
any right touching those their mine, they belong to be. Mister.
Where'd you get the plights? Jackson? They're good, aren't they, mister?
The very best? Where'd you get them? Made him? Made
(22:45):
them myself? Where'd you learn engraving? In prison? When they
sent me to prison?
Speaker 4 (22:49):
I learned all about engraving, real engraving, not photo process,
but the real thing. Findest plights I've ever seen? The
best beautiful money. Isn't it best I've ever seen?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Pool? Anybody?
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Did it all myself? Pass it anywhere, fool anybody anywhere. Yeah,
let's pluck at it, mister. That's a genuine article, isn't
it real money?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It's perfect? Absolutely perfect? Mister. No, you're wrong there. The
government didn't print it.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Vernon, Alex Carmichael, Howard, Raymond Nielsen, Ernest Richard Hunter, Philip
Roger Harger, and Stanley Norman Jackson were tried and convicted
a violation of Title eighteen US Code, Section four seven
four printing and issuing counterfeit money. Violation of this title
is punishable by a fine of five thousand dollars and
imprisonment and a federal penitentiary for a period not to
(23:41):
exceed fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You have just heard Dragnet, the Authentic Story of your
police Force in action and starring Jack Webb, a presentation
of the United States Armed Forces Radio Service,
Ladies and gentlemen. The story you're about to hear is true.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The names have been changed to protect the innocent drag men.
You're a detective sergeant. You're assigned a robbery detail. You
get a call from an informant telling you that three
known gangsters have moved into your city. You don't know
(00:32):
who they are or why they're in Los Angeles. Your
job check them out.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It was Wednesday, August fourth, was lauram in Los Angeles.
We were working the day Watch out of robbery detail.
My partner's Frank Smith. The boss's chiev Detective stad Brown.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
My name is Friday. We're on our way out from
the office.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
And it was nine forty two am when we got
to the Osbourne Turkish band steam Rooms, Hot, didn't it?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Be Dell back there, yeah, Del Yeah, it was Friday
and Smith.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I'll be right with you. Okay, Hey Joe, did you
ever have one of these or what turkey spats? You
ever had one? No? No, I never have.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Understand they're great for coals. He just sit there and
it burns some germs right out.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It's great. Do you ever have one? No?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Al but Ireland and my brother in law he takes
them all the time, tells me about how it does
for coals. Next time he has one.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Of they, I'll go with him. That's a good idea.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
H Sorry, I keep you waiting. We've been having trouble
with the boiler. You gotta keep a close check on
the steam pressure in here. That's okay, let's get out
of here. Huh, that won't make me an happy? Sure
is hot deal?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Going upstairs? We can talk there. Okay, what do he
got for us? Dell?
Speaker 4 (01:44):
I might not go anyplace, but I thought I ought
to fill you guys in on it fell.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
A roll in here last night.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Must have been about ten thirty nightman's out with a coal,
So I had to fill in a coal.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, some kind of virus or something. Oh yeah, come on.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
We can talk in the office. Sit down here, Mind
if I go over some of these bills while we talk?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Oh go ahead.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Well, this bimbo pulls in here last night really carrying
a load. I registered him and had Jimmy take him upstairs.
Guy's kind of loud, you know, rolling all over the place.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I wanted to get him upstairs to a room figure
and he'd.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Sack out and we wouldn't hear no more from him. Well,
he had a different idea. A couple of minutes later,
he comes downstairs, wants to know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
What do you mean?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Wants to know where the steam room is. Says he's
not going to sit in the little room all night.
He paid for his steam bath, that's.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
What he wants. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
When he starts to talk about his high powered friends
and this dealer out to play, kind of figured something wrong.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Did you tell you where the friends were?
Speaker 4 (02:34):
No, not right now. I just mentioned a guy named Bud.
Kept talking how Bud was going to be sore at
Hi because he got drunk. Must have said it a
hundred times, how Bud was going to be real sore.
Sounded to me like this, But is the big man
of the deal?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I see no idea what the deal is though.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
No.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Most he said was that when they left town, they
were all gonna have a lot of money, more money
than I'd ever seen.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
He got the name on this guy.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Oh, here's a register, see he see right here? Earned
Carmichael Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Didn't give an address. Huh.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Once he mentioned he had to meet but at the
hotel down on South Flower.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Didn't say which one.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Though, well, flowers along street, Dell, that doesn't help much.
Didn't give any ideas at all of what the deal
was gonna be. Huh, Now, I must be a good one, though, Well,
why do you say that?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, when I took him.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Up to his room last night, I could see his
clothes hand on a chair, you know, on top of
his coat.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
He had a shoulder holster looked like a forty five
automatic in it.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Why I look at it, guy that's carrying that kind
of muscles figuring on scooring heavy?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Do you make any phone calls while he was here? Now?
Anybody had the room since he left? No? I told
the clean up man to leave it alone. Figure you'd
want to go over. It's a good idea. What time
do you leave this morning? Jimmy says it was about
seven thirty.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
I figured sure he'd sleep most of the morning, but
I don't known he was going to leave that or
oh he had to call you last night.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I want we better take a look at that room.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Dell might be able to come up with something and
it'll tell us who he is. I got something else
for you, Yeah, what's that?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I mentioned this?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Carmichael to Jimmy last night told him, and I thought
there was something wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
The reason the guy left so early is that he
got a call from somebody. I guess it's the guy
that picked him up this Jimmy, see who it was. No,
did the next best thing though, got the license number
of the car.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Ten fifteen am we got in touch with the Layton
Prince and Harlan Stall sent a crew out to go
over the room. Frank put in a call to the
record bureau and he had the name Vernon Carmichael checked.
There was no record on anyone answering the description that
we'd gotten from the manager of the Turkish baths. In addition,
a radiogram was sent to the Department of Motor Vehicles
in Pennsylvania asking for all available information on the owner
of the car bearing the license number that we've been given.
(04:31):
Eleven thirty am, Harland Stall's crew finished checking the room
and they told us that they'd been able to lift
a complete set of clean fingerprints from a water glass.
They were photographed and classified. In checking our files, there
was no record of the Prince. They were forwarded to
George Bretton up at Sacramento, to CII, and to the FBI.
In Washington, d C. Two days passed. On Friday, August sixth,
(04:51):
we got the word from DMV in Pennsylvania that the
car was registered to Howard Nielsen. The radiogram also gave
us a description of the car and the registered owners
address in Pittsburgh. On receipt of this information, we got
in touch with the police department in Pittsburgh and found
that Howard Budd Nielsen had a misdemeanor record.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Late Friday afternoon, the kickback from Washington, d C.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Arrived with the information the fingerprints found in the room
at the Turkish Bath where those of Vernon Carmichael. His
record listed arrests for petty theft and robbery in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
He'd been brought to trial, but he'd been acquitted.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Both men were well known to the police department in
Pittsburgh as hoodlums. On Saturday morning, the mugshots of both
Nielson and Carmichael arrived ten fifteen am. We met with
Lieutenant Jack Smiers and we decided that the information, coupled
with the records of the two men, made the incident
worth investigation. The mug shots of the pair were copied
and a canvas of the hotels on South Flower Street
was started in an attempt to find the residence of
(05:43):
the suspects. The search went on for another two days
without results. Monday, August ninth, eleven forty seven am, Frank
and I got back to the office from communications, and
now we're going to feel pretty silly of Carmichael.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
And Nielson are already back there.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, it's begetting to look like the tip from Dell
about the hotel on Flower was off. Still a lot
of places to check, though, y col fiding. Yeah, we
got it for you. What Carmichael and Nielsen? We found
the hotel. At ten point thirty that morning, Officers Murphy
and Rafferty had gotten the first affirmative answer to their
(06:17):
questions about the suspects.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
A room clerk in a.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Small hotel at the corner of South Flower Street and
Bunker Hill Avenue had recognized the mugshots of Carmichael and Nielsen.
Further questioning brought out the name of the third man
in the trio. He was identified as Ernest Hunter. A
check of the name through our records netted us no
new information on him, and the name of the description
was forwarded again to Breton up at CII and Sacramento,
and again to Pittsburgh for possible identification. In talks with
(06:41):
Lieutenant Smiers and Cheap detectives, Thad Brown was decided to
keep the man under twenty four hour surveillance. Three additional
teams of men from Robbery Detail were assigned to the duty.
For the next seven days, the three men were under
constant watch. Their habits were regular, their movements during the
day followed the same general pattern the kickback on Ernest
Hunter disclosed criminal record. At the end of the first
(07:02):
week of watching the Manute was decided that the next
step in the operation was to place a microphone in
their room so that we might be able to monitor
their conversations. Frank and I got in touch with the
sound crew at the crime Lab and we made arrangements
for them. The necessary permits were obtained from the Federal
Communications Commission, and the listening equipment itself was ready. We
made arrangements with radio car officers to pick up the
suspects for investigation.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
The sound crew.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Frank and I, along with Murphy and Rafferty, stood by
for a word that the trio.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Was in custody Tuesday night.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Should be getting word pretty quick, yeah one, Come in
red one.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
That's marsh yeah. Read one to red two, come in
red two. Anywhere yet, Gord, no, no yet.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
Whirls at the manager's apartment.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Monitored ut post one, monitored post one, coming one.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Sounds like they got it. Now you want to take it?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, stand by red three. I'll post won the monitor
out post one the monitor, go ahead, monitor.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
To outpost one. Information received that suspects are in custody. Repeat,
suspects are in custody. Acknowledge.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'll post one the monitor. I'll post one the monitor.
Message received. I'll post one up. You heard it now?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Read one to red two and red three, Red one
to red two and red three.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Do you read me?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Red two and three, Red red one, read two, Red
three to red one receiving clearly read one to red three.
Suspects are now in custody. Proceed with installation of listening equipment.
Over roger Red one, Red three. Please keep contact.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
We'll do Red one, Red three out.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Red one to red two. Come in red two, merph.
Can you see the suspects apartment from where you are?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I've got Joe.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
It's down the hall and around the corner.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
First or over read one to red three. Come in
red three.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
Brad's rede a red one.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Are you in the apartment.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Yet, yeah, Joe, we just started to stall the bug.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Is there a radio in the room.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Yeah, a small table model. It's on the night stand
next to the.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Bad Can you fix that before you leave? Yeah, I'll
put one of the wires so it won't work good.
Where are you put in the bug?
Speaker 5 (09:22):
We're landing uner the edge of the carpet. Hear the
door to the kitchen. Should be able to pick up
the whole room from there.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
There's nothing to do now until we get it finished. Now.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, we got the recorder all set out. Yeah, it's
in the room. Sound crew came in this afternoon, made
the installation on it. Do you know how to work it?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah? I think so.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Jack checked me out and it's pretty simple. Just like
playing a piano, press a key in the way it goes.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Well. I hope you got it. I've always had trouble
with him.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Last time out, I wanted to rewind one of the
spools and listen to something, ended up erasing everything. We yes,
I remember that very well. I was afraid you wouldn't.
Eleven fifteen pm. The installation of the listening equipment was completed,
and Frank and I, along with Officer Pat Murphy, we
took up our positions in the room.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
We intended to use as a monitoring post.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Officer Rapperty went back to the city Hall and told
them that we'd finished and we were ready to have
the suspects released. In the meantime, Carmichael, Nielsen, and Hunter
had been fingerprinted and mugged. A search of their persons
had failed to reveal any incriminating evidence, and the time
that they'd been held it allowed us to make the
necessary installation. After the trio had been released, we received
information that they were proceeding towards the hotel. Frank, Murphy
(10:24):
and I waited for them at the monitor post to
come into their room. Twelve thirty five am.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
That's that.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Get the recorder. Huh, you don't take care of the
log Frank, Yeah, say it's twelve thirty six am.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
That's it, logy deal box.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
Want to ask us a questions as though that's what
you would think they had a reason use us much?
Speaker 5 (10:43):
You tell me why shut up?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Well you have Tom Michael, you weren't such a big
man way you started asking you the questions time said,
I was going to Tom?
Speaker 5 (10:49):
Why don't you shut you?
Speaker 6 (10:50):
Probably when you got typed up in a trick, that's probably
what tipped it.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
What tip a couple of uniform cop stop us on
a routine investigation. They got nothing anything, honestly, think they'd
let us go.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Well do you do you think you'll let us go?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Oh? Why don't you?
Speaker 5 (11:02):
You're right?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Hun yuh? Turn on the radio?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Way?
Speaker 5 (11:06):
Do you get some music? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
And next time you get tanked the back here, I
don't go roman all over time.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
That's why they picked us up.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
You said something? What'd I say?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Do you know what that that?
Speaker 5 (11:18):
I'll tell you. You'll be in a thing now. You'll
tell me what I said to they did me. I'll
go ahead. Tell you said something. I don't know whether why,
but you shut off your mouth.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Hey, I know what's about with the radio?
Speaker 6 (11:27):
Much you're gonna turn it off on time?
Speaker 5 (11:31):
If he broke and do wor uh? I doesn't imagine
any And at the sack, I the ang you shot
for a while.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Do you open your mouth anymore?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
You got more trouble?
Speaker 5 (11:38):
You can hand that's away unless to you. Yeah, Now
you guys don't shut up. I'm gonna throw up.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, I hear. I'm'a shut up getting sleep tonight night
still because the radio buss And that's the way it
went for the next five days. When the men were
in the room, they argued continually. They talked about the
deal they were working on, but from their conversation there
was no way of learning what they planned. When they
left the room. They were constantly under surveillance, but their
(12:02):
movements were routine. They took their meals in the same restaurant,
they went to movies, they sat in bars, always together.
During the time they were out of the apartment, they
made no local contacts, They received no telephone calls, they
made none.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
We knew that they were planning something, but there was
no way of knowing what it was.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
All conversation in the room was recorded and listened to
over and over again in the hope that we could
come up with some kind of a lead, but the
time spent in replaying the recordings and netted us nothing.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
From what they'd said.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
We figured that whatever they were planning would take place
on either Tuesday, August seventeenth or on Wednesday, August eighteen.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
On Tuesday, three way.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Cars were assigned to the streets in front of the hotel,
but the suspects acted as usual on Wednesday. They didn't
leave their room. Frank Murphy and I continued to wait
on the streets outside. Three other teams of men were
standing by and undercover cars. Nine thirty pm as their telephone,
get the recorder.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yep, nine thirty one pm.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
We right, okay, well.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Leave right now. Yep.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
What Yeah, that's the where we got right, we'll see
about thirty nine right. Hey, uh, how are we gonna
know you? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (13:15):
Yeah, I got it right.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
Hey, who is that to come back?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Those the stuff just got in.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
We're supposed to pick it up right away. Oh, looks like. Hey,
we got to work.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Now, let's go.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
That's it. We'll get it out. I'll post one.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
The unit's one K eight nine one K eight eight
one K eight seven. Suspects are leaving room. Suspects are
leaving room. I'll post one out, all right, let's go.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I wish we knew who it was, like it might
be a narcotics Well it could be.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Doesn't make a lot of difference, does it. Yeah, at
least we know it's something. By the time we got
to the street. The suspects were getting into their car
and pulling away from the curb. Frank, Murphy and I
got to our car and followed them. They drove down
South Flower to the corner of Calm Drive and turned left.
Three blocks further, they pulled into a gas station and
apparently asked directions. They turned south on Broadway and drove
(14:04):
about a mile. At Santa Barbara Avenue, they turned left
again and drove three blocks. They stopped and parked the
con front of a small bar. We informed the other
units of the activity and asked them to stand by
in the area. Carmichael got out of the car and
ended the bar. Murphy left us and ended the bar
after him. Carmichael returned in a few minutes with another man.
The two of them got back into the car and
(14:25):
they talked. At the end of that time, all four
of the men got out of the automobile and then
they entered the bar. Shortly after that, Carmichael, Nielsen, and
Hunter walked out of the place. Carmichael was carrying a
small package wrapped in plain brown paper and tied with
a string.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
The fourth man wasn't with him.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Frank and I got out of our car and approached
the men as they stood talking.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I'd hold it up. Police officers over there. Put hands
up on that wall.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
That's going on.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Get their hands up there. Frankie checking the package. Yeah,
keep your hands on that wall, Lassie deal. I hope
you're happy. Carmichael, I hope your real hat? What are
you talking about. I've got to lay this one to you.
You really took care of the hand. Still and keep quiet.
How about I think I don't know, will you meet?
Where's money? Twenty dollar bills?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Few fifteen twenty thousand dollars worth queer as far as
I can tell us?
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Good? And where's that?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Put us all those twenty thousand dollars here? Yeah, let's
find out where they got it. Ten oh two am
the four suspects were taken into custody and removed to
the City Hall for interrogation. We got in touch with
the Secret Service and asked them to come over to
(15:30):
the office to check on the currency. The agent arrived and,
after looking at the money, pointed out several minute mistakes
that had been made in the engraving of the plates.
He went on to explain, however, that this particular printing
was one of the best that he'd ever seen. He
told us that the paper used in the bills would
be analyzed and that we'd receive copies of the reports
as soon as they were finished.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Twelve fourteen am.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
While Murphy, Rafferty and the Secret Service man questioned Nielsen
in the interrogation room, Frank and I talked to Carmichael
in the squad room. We questioned him for about an hour,
but he refused to say anything that would help us
get a lead to the source of the counter fit.
One th am, how long you figure and keep this up? Carmichael,
I don't know what you're talking. I'll not come off,
but we're getting tired of playing kid games here. We
want to know where the queer came from. Now who
says it's queer? Guy that printed it was pretty sloppy,
(16:10):
made a lot of mistakes. Joe yammer, see you man, Yeah,
be right back. Yeah, how you doing nothing? Nielsen won't
say a word. He gives it to Hus that he
didn't know what was going on, says he just went
out there to pick up a package. They say who
they were running the errand for tells it just he
went along for the ride. The whole thing was Carmichael's idea.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
M h.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
We thought maybe we'd go to work on Hunter, see
what we can get from him. Okay, you're gonna stick
with Carmichael? Yeah, I guess so from what we heard
in the room. If there's gonna be a break, I
got a hunch it's gonna come from him. Okay, you
got anything about us? Know right away?
Speaker 5 (16:41):
A big man's back again, your friend. They'll tell you
all about it.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
No, but yours? Did? Nielson just laid the whole thing
in your lap? Your kid? Do you want to talk
to him? What'd he say? Wait, he tells it. He
was just long for the ride. You're the big wheel
in the whole thing. He said that. I said you
could talk to him if you want to.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Well, he ain't gonna make it. He ain't gonna lay
it on make you want to tell us your side
of it? Yeah, I'll tell you the way it happened,
had wellsy, But how do you like that? Him saying
I know whell I'll.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Tell you all right now? Where the queer come from?
I don't know. I thought you were going to tell
us I'm doing that. I really don't know where he
came from.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
You turn up with twenty thousand dollars and twenty dollars bills,
and you asked us to believe that you don't know
where it was printed.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I'm not asking you anything. I'm telling you what I know.
That's it. We'll tell us about your part. Nielsen, Hunter
and me were approached in Pitts by who I don't know.
We're going that way again, all right, so you don't
believe me. That's the way it happened.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
The guy who approached it, he just walked up and said,
here's twenty thousand bucks, just like that.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Huh.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
No, the deal was it?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Nielsen Hunter and me were supposed to come out here.
We were supposed to check into a hotel and wait
for a call. Guy who called us would had the queer.
He turned it over to us and we'd pass it.
You bought the counterfeit? Yeah? What'd you pay for it?
Two and a half for twenty dollars?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, two and a half for twenty you paid the
other man we picked up, Yeah, we gave him twenty
five hundred bucks.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
You ever seen the man before? What the man you
bought the queer from? Do you know him? No? I
never saw him before. He's not the man who made
the original contact in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
No, a guy back east was an old man. How old,
I don't know, maybe fifty five sixty around in there.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Not the fellow you met the night I told you
that before. It's not the same man. Rim was the
name of it. No, just to call him Pop, that's all. Pop.
Give us a description of this man. Pop.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
What's in it for me?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
What do you got now? Nothing?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
All right, it'll stay that way. You're in big trouble, Carmichael.
If you're smart at all, you're gonna cop up the
whole thing and cooperate with us and Lowsi and Nielsen
him all the time, yelling about how it was all set,
all the time, saying we had it made.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I'll go with you. I just want to see Nielson
get his that's all. Just want to see him get his.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
We're gonna want you to look at some pictures too.
I told you i'd go the rot. You just tell
me what you want to know. If I got the answer,
so of you are? What'd he tell you at Lowsy Nielsen?
What do you tell you about how it happened? You
tell you the way I did you tell it that
way pretty much.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, sure, that's the way it happened. Can't be toltal
the other way? Yeah, well, Neilson might give you an
argument there.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Further interrogation of the other three men in the operation
serve to corroborate the story that we've been given by Carmichael.
Twenty five hundred dollars in cash was found on the
fourth suspect. Once the other men were confronted with the
fact that Carmichael had told us everything he knew concerning
the operation, they all followed suit. But other than telling
us that they knew the head man and the counterfeiting
actors Pop, they couldn't come up with any further information.
From the man who'd been in the bar, we learned
(19:07):
that he'd met Pop in Pittsburgh. He also told us that,
as far as he knew, the counterfeiter had been in
prison at one time or another. However, the suspect was
unable to tell us in what state or on what
charges Pop had served time. He went on to tell
us that he'd gotten the money in Pittsburgh and that
Pop had told him that he'd be contacted later. The
Secret Service had completed their analysis at the counterfeit bills,
and they told us that they were some of the
most perfect printing jobs that they'd run across.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
The counterfeiter had.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Made one major mistake, however, in the printing of the currency.
He'd impregnated the paper with small silken hairs so that
it would stand close inspection.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
The currency now in use is made with nylon hairs.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
The agent from the Secret Service told us they had
agents working on tracing the manufacture of the paper in
the hopes that they could come up with the lead.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
As to the identity of Pop.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
The four suspects were booked into the city jail Thursday,
August nineteenth.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
We ran the name Pop through our Moniker file.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Of the forty seven cards turned over to us by
the record bureau, nineteen of the s suspects listed matched
the descriptions that we've been given. The pictures of the
men were pulled and shown to Clarmichael and the other
three suspects. They were unable to give us my identification.
The name and description was sent to George Breton and Sacramento,
and he sent us another one hundred and fifty possibles.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
These were checked out without result.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
The nickname and physical description of the man was sent
to Washington and we got back over a thousand names
and pictures. It took us six weeks working with the
Secret Service to check out these possibles. The results nothing.
Tuesday October fifth, Frank and I got back to the office.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I get it robbery Friday.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah, by wait a minute while I get it down,
all right, go ahead, uh huh yeah, you know, well,
let's should.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Check out, like, okay, we'll meet you. What you got?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Report of the paper and the queer bills just came through. Yeah,
looks like we found pop. In checking the manufacturers of
paper similar to that used in the counterfeit twenty dollars bills,
the Secret Service had come up with the name of
a small print shop in the eastern section of Los Angeles.
The paper used was of an unusual type and there
(21:12):
were not many.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Orders for it.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
This particular shop had ordered large quantities of it in
the past and was continuing to use it. In checking
out the name of the man on the order blanks,
the Secret Service had found that he'd been convicted of
robbery and had served a term in the Federal penitentiary
in Atlanta. He'd been released and had come to California
and opened a small print shop. We spent the next
two days checking the suspect out. His name was given
(21:35):
to Stanley Jackson, aged forty seven. For the next week,
the print shop and Jackson himself were kept under constant surveillance.
On Thursday, October fourteenth, at eleven to fifty pm, the
suspect was followed.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
To his print shop.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I'll come to the front the shop, show right, then,
come on, rank, yeah, yeh yeah, it sounds like a
pressed enter. Come on, back doors around here? You see
what's going on in there? No yet the windows all
(22:07):
painted over. Well you figured, No, it doesn't leave us
with a lot of choice. If we do in them,
he's not printing counterfeit. We're gonna make them so hiky
that we might never nail him. Yeah, but if we
don't go an they might get rid of the places
we're in trouble there too.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
And you're, like I said, we haven't got much choice
that way. All right, let's go.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (22:24):
What are you doing the wace officers? You're under arrest
sake press rank right, I got no right to count
me in here like this. I know my rights. You
haven't got a warrant. You've got no right to act
like this. You want to kill it, Frank, I gotta
go a place for in the press. Show you do
in the green Overlet take a look. You haven't got
any right touching those their mine, they belong to be. Mister.
Where'd you get the plights? Jackson? They're good, aren't they, mister?
The very best? Where'd you get them? Made him? Made
(22:45):
them myself? Where'd you learn engraving? In prison? When they
sent me to prison?
Speaker 4 (22:49):
I learned all about engraving, real engraving, not photo process,
but the real thing. Findest plights I've ever seen? The
best beautiful money. Isn't it best I've ever seen?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Pool? Anybody?
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Did it all myself? Pass it anywhere, fool anybody anywhere. Yeah,
let's pluck at it, mister. That's a genuine article, isn't
it real money?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It's perfect? Absolutely perfect? Mister. No, you're wrong there. The
government didn't print it.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Vernon, Alex Carmichael, Howard, Raymond Nielsen, Ernest Richard Hunter, Philip
Roger Harger, and Stanley Norman Jackson were tried and convicted
a violation of Title eighteen US Code, Section four seven
four printing and issuing counterfeit money. Violation of this title
is punishable by a fine of five thousand dollars and
imprisonment and a federal penitentiary for a period not to
(23:41):
exceed fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You have just heard Dragnet, the Authentic Story of your
police Force in action and starring Jack Webb, a presentation
of the United States Armed Forces Radio Service,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!