April 23, 2024 • 60 mins
What is your Earth Archetype? Take the Quiz!
In this podcast episode, Network Archetype Freddie Davis III and I sit down for a reunion chat.
After kicking things off with his trademark laugh, Freddie shares about how he connects the dots as a forester by finding commonality with people – especially when trying to discuss things that aren't relatable to everyone.
As the Director of the Rural Training and Research Center at the Federation of Southern Cooperatives, this is imperative for his ability to advocate for underserved black farmers and landowners in the Southeast US.
Always up for a challenge, Freddie tackles how education and apprenticeship are two sides of a system, how home is where the work is, and how quality of life includes all of life from trees to humans.
Be sure to listen until the end to hear what he wished I would have asked!
________
If you like this episode, listen to how the Earth Archetypes came to be. Check it out right here.
Connect with the Community:
Watch episodes on YouTube
Check out the Website
Take the What is Your Earth Archetype? Quiz
Follow Earth Archetypes on Instagram
Or how about Earth Archetypes on Facebook
Pick Your Favorite Way to Join
Direct with Earth Archetypes
Through Patreon
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iHeart’s Supporters Club
Apple Podcast’s Subscription
In this podcast episode, Network Archetype Freddie Davis III and I sit down for a reunion chat.
After kicking things off with his trademark laugh, Freddie shares about how he connects the dots as a forester by finding commonality with people – especially when trying to discuss things that aren't relatable to everyone.
As the Director of the Rural Training and Research Center at the Federation of Southern Cooperatives, this is imperative for his ability to advocate for underserved black farmers and landowners in the Southeast US.
Always up for a challenge, Freddie tackles how education and apprenticeship are two sides of a system, how home is where the work is, and how quality of life includes all of life from trees to humans.
Be sure to listen until the end to hear what he wished I would have asked!
________
If you like this episode, listen to how the Earth Archetypes came to be. Check it out right here.
Connect with the Community:
Watch episodes on YouTube
Check out the Website
Take the What is Your Earth Archetype? Quiz
Follow Earth Archetypes on Instagram
Or how about Earth Archetypes on Facebook
Pick Your Favorite Way to Join
Direct with Earth Archetypes
Through Patreon
Via Buy Me a Coffee
iHeart’s Supporters Club
Apple Podcast’s Subscription
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So Amber, so I must do out throughout this entire podcast, right?
(00:08):
I'm impressed because you actually listen to the things I say.
So I'm like, wow.
So we be talking to you, like, you take notes, you're like,
I'm gonna take it.
Look, I'm familiar with that because my uncle was a psychiatrist.
He was, when I was younger, you know, he used to keep us, he and my,
(00:32):
my, uh, they used to keep us a lot, my sister died.
And come to find out as I get older, that the reason they kept us so much was
because he was doing his dog on doctoral thesis on my sister died.
You know,
so, you know, so we were just, you know, I was starting to question why we talk a lot now.
(01:00):
[laughs]
Welcome to the EarthMates podcast.
Together, we explore how to find your path from climate anxiety to community action
by asking, who are you?
Because just like any relationship, that matters.
(01:24):
So get ready to be raw and real, but also playful and silly with me,
Chief Relationship Officer Amber Peoples,
as we discover what's possible through the lens of the five Earth archetypes.
Curiosity and subscription buttons highly encouraged.
(01:45):
Welcome, friend.
Today as we record this session, there's actually an atmospheric river coming over where I am here in Oregon across the ocean.
And also the moon itself, which even though it's daylight at the moment,
(02:06):
the moon is still doing its thing and it's waning crescent just one night past the halfway point.
So I always love to start this podcast with sharing what's around me and what I'm in relationship with.
And I'd love to everybody to take a beat as you tune into what's around you.
What I'll do is I'll silently count to five while you have that opportunity to do that.
(02:38):
Thank you.
Now I am delighted to introduce you to the network Earth type, Freddie Davis, the third.
Freddie and I met just a few months ago at Climate Week in New York.
He was looking a bit perplexed, so I asked him what's up and our friendship started with a laugh.
We dug in a bit into a wonderful grand opportunity that had just landed in his lap,
(03:03):
but he needed to complete it in two days time.
And even with that pressure, he was totally up for talking about climate of all,
which will dig into his insight soon enough.
But for now, I'm excited to share our next conversation with you, the podcast listener.
So welcome, Freddie. I'm so delighted to have this conversation with you today.
(03:26):
Oh, it's awesome to be here and thanks for the invite.
It's kind of interesting trying to imagine your environment with the, with all the things going on in the atmosphere.
So that's cool.
It is. There is definitely a force coming over from the ocean for sure.
And I'm curious, you know, I shared a little bit about that first meeting, which I know you and I continue to joke about.
(03:50):
Is there anything from your perspective about that first meeting that you'd love to share?
Yes, I looked a little perplexed.
Did you think I did?
I thought you looked interesting.
Yeah, with the high-consuming environment we were in, we were like, I was like, hmm, she's different.
(04:19):
And is that something that you gravitate towards when you're connecting with people and a thing like that is you're looking for what, what makes people stand out?
Exactly. Yeah.
Just, just so I can kind of understand how, how we relate to each other.
Yeah. So you're looking for those clues.
What's fun about that kind of comment you made is it allows us to dive right into this idea of the network type.
(04:46):
And when you say looking to connect with somebody, what I'm curious about is what does that mean for you?
Because I think for the different types, that sense of connection, that sense of belonging is different.
And I would love to hear a little bit more about what's going on for you inside your heart or your brain as you're looking to connect with somebody.
(05:07):
So it's looking for that commonality and, you know, in attitudes and interests.
So it's, and to me, that's how that bond's created because I'm constantly speaking and I'm constantly trying to convince people.
(05:36):
I'm some of the things that might not be as, as relatable to, to, to the, to the common, to everybody.
So, you know, that's kind of what I do day to day is, is that that connection and that addressing the intercession between social and environmental concerns.
(05:57):
So it's, it's usually an interesting, right there. So understanding relationships is, is kind of key.
And so that's why, you know, seeing those specific things about individuals or groups of people and trying to get that, that commonality is, is key because that's work conversation are developed from right.
(06:21):
Totally, yeah, here we are, as a direct result of that. And so when I love about, there was a couple words there that really stood out to me, commonality was key.
And then also you were talking about intersections. And that's one of the things that I want to point about, point out about you in particular, Freddie, is that, you know, none of these earth relationship types are these silos, you know, they're not intended to be that they're intended to just be kind of clues to help people identify their skill sets.
(06:50):
And one of the things that I think is important to point out about you is that you, you know, if, if we look at these types, almost like a rainbow where there's a spectrum of colors, you're very close to the, the weaver type, which is all about those interconnections and weaving together.
And so you, you have this amazing kind of dance that you do between those types that do, you know, blend together, kind of like yellow and green make blue kind of thing.
(07:19):
And so with, with the connections you're talking about and the weaving that you're talking about, are you, are you looking when, are you looking at them in a way where you see two separate things and you're looking for that line of connection, or you looking at more of an integration or a weaving, like what's, what's kind of the metaphor or the verb of that that seems to fit the way that you're looking at it.
(07:45):
And it's a combination of integrating and commonality.
And it goes more in depth into, you know, the actual feel for that person or that group of people and where that acceptance where I feel the day except it for you.
(08:06):
And so, as to whether we're just going to, you know, should I strive for that common point or should I, you know, push to in a weave and taking in as well as them taking and create something different.
So it just kind of depends on the feel idea from that relationship that's been developed in that, you know, in that seconds.
(08:34):
And I find that a lot, I speak on a lot of participating in a lot of panels panel discussions and things like that.
And one of the things that with me is, well, I want to the last right, I want to be in the middle, I want to start the conversation off because I'm steady.
And I never write anything to come prepared. It's always from what I'm gathering from my peers, either my conversations at last time conversations in the hall or just by what the other speakers or participants have talked about.
(09:11):
And just there I can put it together, put something together to kind of create that relationship with those opportunities and go from there.
I love that. I love the amount of you, you never said the word, but there's a lot of listening. That sounds like it's happening for you.
(09:34):
And as you're, as you're seeing those, those points of connection, I know the, another word that you and I have talked a lot about that you said your brain is constantly doing is, is systems putting together systems.
Do you think that that's what's happening there?
And how do you feel like that's coming together? Are you having an aha moment when you then decide what to say, or is it, are you looking for like that beaver is a keystone species within that system is it trying to find that like what, what is that way of using systems that you think is helpful in that environment.
(10:12):
Yeah, it's, it's looking with me is looking for that, that critical piece that's going to connect the parts.
It's taking its understanding in the systems is understanding both parts of that system are all parts of that system and being able to interject pieces.
(10:37):
So this thing comes from understanding those parts of that system, especially the parts that I'm not more aware of and then said, OK, here's what opportunity is to put this key mean that's going to make that system flow because it's, it's all about the whole system and that key needs to connect that whole system or address that whole system.
(11:01):
So it's, so that's where the listener comes in to understand that system and understand where I might be able to interject and make that system hold more.
In the case of the work that I'm doing more inclusive.
(11:24):
I love that even this precision on how you were using your hands to describe it about this kind of interjection and it's it had to me it had kind of a scientific feel to it because it's, it's looking for that moment of of experiment really you know you're you're seeing it all happen and I can almost see in your head your hypothesizing if I try this thing here what happens.
(11:49):
That's right, that's right, I love that that's fantastic so you know we've hinted a little bit about you being on these panels and you talking and stuff and one of the things that you mentioned in our last conversation is that you haven't worked in 20 years well clearly you're doing stuff but I would love for you to talk a little bit more about what it is you've been doing the last 20 years that you clearly are having a good time doing.
(12:16):
Well I'm a I'm a forster by education and and right now I'm working with the Federation of Southern Cooperatives which is an association of cooperatives primarily underserved black farmers landowners across the South East US.
(12:42):
And our goal in mission as organization is to advocate for those farmers to a system where it makes sense to create cooperatives with the whole goal of creating cooperatives and advocacy to support land retention amongst that group.
(13:06):
So and what we found as a forster that feel right into play because most of those landowners most of those farmers have got to component of forest that's been under utilized and as an organization we want to expose the value of forster to those cooperatives or to those farmers so it's an awesome job awesome opportunity.
(13:35):
And for generation forster so the speak on the first educated forster and first generation educated for however my actor remember being in which was my grandfather and father both in forster so so is the passion of mine.
(14:02):
So therefore I haven't worked in 20 years I enjoyed doing what I'm doing you know get up in the morning and I'm interested well I'm going to be at it like anxious for the next day so it yeah it's it's awesome experience to be able to do things and then do it and see not only just doing forster but being tiny in that social aspect and helping our people to return to land.
(14:31):
I think that's a good way to return to land I think that's a you know combined all of that work it's fun it's a fun and reward.
Thank you for sharing that that history of of your family I don't I don't think I knew that and it's really interesting that you made that comparison between you know having these generations of forsters but you having the formal education.
(14:57):
So how do you feel that that's that's different so you know there's a lot of questions around you know is apprenticeship perhaps the best way or is it education or is it a combo of the two and it definitely seems like you're in in both worlds and so I'd be so curious to hear what benefit you think is the the style that's more around inheritance and apprenticeship and then the style that is from a more formalized education.
(15:26):
Yeah most definitely there benefits to both the I think a combination for sure and we can go all back to the beginning of conversation about systems and understanding the systems.
I think in the combination you understand both sides of the system and and you can interject that key in the appropriate place when you have experiences on both ends the actual apprenticeship.
(16:00):
You know hands on has been having that education component to back it up you know education is going to give you the wise and I think the apprenticeship or hands on gives you the how gives you more context to to the actual struggle to doing it.
(16:26):
And in my case is understanding it's understanding social aspect of you know education kind of gives the scientific aspect of it but understanding you know socially why why things were done because a lot of times I just want to ask you all the questions that it needs to ask.
(16:50):
So that's going to give that exact precise correct you know in online map to get from point A to point B but there's a lot of social turns in there that's that you're going to have to take to get from point A to point B to be inclusive or you know and to address you know different things.
(17:18):
In the space so combination.
Yeah no I really appreciate that and it actually it reminds me of that first conversation we had at the nature conservancy when we were talking about climate of awe and I was talking about that i'm bringing together artists and ecologists and and you loved the story but you also are like are you are you willing to make some changes and I saw the little glint in your eye I was like oh what do you got.
(17:47):
And and your your key point was the same point you just made now which is and you you related it to the work that you do at the Federation which is.
You know oftentimes you might have the farmer come together with maybe it's a funder and everybody's excited about the story but then sometimes it can get really sticky around the how.
(18:13):
And I remember your encouragement was to to think about like what is that third component within the story that how and what I was so grateful about is that it made me realize that the how is actually the viewer.
That gives the audience in the film their job and it was it was such an amazing I didn't have that light bulb moment there it actually took me like a couple weeks of thinking about what you said before I realized oh that's what it was.
(18:44):
Yeah I remember you calling it back and saying I got it.
Awesome I love that one of the things that I think is really important in this particular type is this sense of home now everybody has you know a felt sense of that there's there's this key thing around home that.
(19:09):
ECO stands for home like ecologist economic those have that that word right in them and it's about the management or the study of home and so i'm wondering about with this kind of jet setting lifestyle you have with sharing the message looking for places of inclusivity being willing to be that person of kind of the I guess you could say front lines of that.
(19:33):
How do you find a sense of home that you are building as as you do this work.
You know I think and it probably gives me trouble right at the time but the sense of home is what the work is is what the work is happening.
(20:02):
Because there again I have it work in 20 years so it's it's really the sense of home is where when I'm with my people in the space that's that's going to be kind of where I'm grounded at that's why most comfortable that.
(20:27):
However there are not many places that are uncomfortable so I think i'm more of a wonderer.
You know in the aspect of home and and places of comfort and places of work.
(20:51):
I appreciate those layers of it it's it reminds me that you know when I when I try to explain that's for myself even though you know the art I identify as the artist type it's still all around belonging and connection and at home is such a big part of that and for me coming from a place where I had to leave my biological family and home as a teenager and and join a second home.
(21:16):
And I always go back to that around knowing that for me having that touchstone of I can I can touch something that I can say is home has always been really really important to me and it sounds like for you.
And I think that that that constant movement is a lot of fun but where you feel the home and the reason you're doing all of that that fun is it goes back to what you're trying to contribute to what feels like an internal sense of home is that accurate.
(21:52):
And while get out of me yeah yeah that's good.
I love that.
Another thing that I look at when I look at these different types is we talk about superpowers and we talk about shadow aspects because we're human we got it all.
(22:16):
And we've been talking a lot about the superpowers especially when we talk about systems when we talk about connecting things when we talk about this this sense of studying and providing home and one of the things that I think is a key aspect of the network type is that there is still a really important piece around results that there that there is an ROI.
(22:45):
When you're doing all of this when you're deciding if you're going to go to North Carolina or Louisiana or when you go back to this touchstone place called home and you have to I guess maybe the word is answer to the people that you care about there.
And so I'm wondering about what what is it that you're looking for when you're defining or deciding that something is worth doing because it'll give the result that's really important to you.
(23:11):
I think the reason I ended up in the space that I'm in with the organization I'm in is because I was a consultant consultant for us to I was working with the same land on the state I'm working with now.
And it was only so much that I could do as a consultant it was only so many people that I could have faith as a consultant it was only the resources were limited.
(23:43):
And so when the opportunity came to join this organization and this capacity then it allowed me to be able to touch more.
Landowners more people that needed the assistance that I was qualified to give and so I think that measurement that rate of return is for me is it's volume of people that I could influence.
(24:24):
Or share knowledge with so a lot of decisions on me is it's based on okay how how much volume am I going to get out and being in this place versus that place where are those potential relationships going to be built and how those relationships going to how the ripple effects of those relationships going to go is it is it.
(24:53):
Is it is it going to be a big part is it going to be a small part it's not that it's not that the small opportunities are not met but it's it's making that that no it's not that point B like we talked about earlier it's those curves in the road and things and so you know we're going from point B but.
(25:21):
A dress in those opportunities it might be where it's a connection that can be made in a place or some relationships that's made here it's not directly but indirectly it will still achieve the goal so it's about volume and developing those relationships and how those relationships are going to also.
(25:46):
Do the word that I'm doing or reach the people that I'm trying to reach as an individual and as as organization so that's that's kind of how I base that that return.
Yeah so it sounds like the i'm getting images of rivers you know the choice between tributaries or the main river you know do you do do the do the creek or do you do the Columbia River.
(26:15):
And it's not saying that the creek is not important because the river wouldn't be there without the creek.
Yeah and within that metaphor what's interesting is if if we're working with the creek in the river where do you think your farmers are that you're working for fit within that are they part of the water are they the trees because I know that when you you mentioned the word goal which based on what you said earlier it is about you know keeping the.
(26:44):
You know keeping the land within the hands of the black farmers did I did I did I did I interpret that goal correctly.
Yes and I would say in the context of creeks and streams and rivers that the farmers that represent would be intermittent strings compared to rivers and oceans.
(27:10):
Yeah okay for those of us who are not ecologists what the heck does that mean it's not always flowing it would flow during times of you know every rain falls things like that so it's not a constant flow but it's got ability to get water from one place to the next.
(27:34):
And it can so it contributes to the so when it's drier that stream might go dry whereas a creek or or just a stream would most likely maintain water but in a dry situation that intermittent is subject to going dry and and that's what we've been seeing with our farmers is that we're we're steadily you know getting dry and dry and dry.
(28:03):
As you're released to land retention.
Yeah and so that you know it's I've been following the the cop discussions that have been coming and and focusing really in specifically on words and the word that seems to really being used a lot now is this idea of circularity.
(28:28):
And it's you know it can be used so well in so many different contexts and that's that's the image that I was getting as you were describing that is is the weather cycle you know the when the when you're able to do your work where you're kind of serving as this atmospheric force to pull the water out of the Columbia river that then cycles it back to these intermittent creeks is this circularity visual that I got.
(28:54):
I think I think it would go it probably go opposite of that I think it would so the the waters actually if you look at it from a landscape standpoint the waters hitting the landscape so we're getting most of the water supplies from rain falls.
And we're getting the rain falls with and so you get that rainfall and it's hitting the landscape and a lot of it's flowing directly into you know.
(29:23):
And a lot of it flows directly into larger creeks and streams and things but you get a lot of you're a lot of what we're doing is fair through intermittent and and temporary streams and things that that you know you got of course that compound in effect you go in the in the stream to create to river to ocean.
(29:49):
So it's it's kind of like I said that that those larger bodies wouldn't be there if we didn't have those smaller bodies feeding them.
And a lot of times we don't address the smaller bodies we address the oceans and we address the we address the rivers you know and we address with so we address the larger bodies and forget about those intermittent that's there.
(30:17):
And that speed in this whole system.
And I think we can we can use that analogy and in a lot of places other than then the space we're in now.
Yeah, no, thank you for that clarification. I appreciate that that kind of going back to that sense of.
(30:42):
Because one of the things that I think is really interesting in ecology is that we understand that it is such an intertwined system but within that there are different roles that you know we give kind of the term the source so like a mountain spring even though it's water that's filtering down through the mountain for you know anywhere from 5000 years to I've even heard it could be like 20,000 years.
(31:05):
And we still call that mountain spring a source and so I'm hearing more clearly in your explanation there is that these intermittent streams are a form of source.
Yeah.
That's beautiful. Yeah.
And that makes me think of another key aspect that I really love about earth relationship types and what you know the example that just happened right now is you know I'm the artsy fartsy type that's thinking about metaphors and trying to put it in.
(31:34):
Into a visual and I'm using my hands a lot and you're adding the precision to what it is that I'm sharing and it's the reason I love that is it really exemplifies this idea of emergence.
That I want to capture when with with this idea of why kind of make people distinct into these different types is it allows us to then go OK, if this is how I'm thinking and this is how you're thinking.
(32:02):
How can we actually have one plus one equals three.
When you talk about inclusivity, I'm sure you've seen plenty of places where one plus one unfortunately maybe equals zero or even a negative number.
And and so as you as you work on these issues and you're looking for those places to kind of interject into how are you seeing this idea of emergence or creating something bigger and better.
(32:31):
Then then individuals could do on their own.
So we're going back to we'll go back to you know like you asked about the decision to be at one place or be at the other place.
And I use that analogy of building those relationships and I think that's looking at OK, how strong are those relationships and those opportunities.
(33:00):
So it's I think it's about building the relationships and building partnerships that will be sustainable.
You know even with one part not there if that makes sense it's building something.
(33:22):
You know and let me back up because I use the term sustainability in relationships and how do they share work and how those relationships can go towards achieving the goal.
But I think I like the term now regenerative a little bit better because if we sustain what we have we're not gaining.
(33:52):
And you know in the space that that I'm working in.
And we as organization of the Federation's working in we need to start gaining.
And so sustaining is good we're not losing but I think we need to be more regenerative.
We need to start creating creating opportunities creating land ownership, increasingly and ownership.
(34:19):
And so that's I think it's forming relationships that's going to be regenerative.
We go back to conversation we had just a couple of minutes ago on you know determine what space.
(34:43):
Where we're going to be what relationships are going to be. And I use the analogy of the ripple effect.
I think that's key. I think that's how we get the some of both parts of being more than the whole is developing those relationships that's going to multiply and be regenerative.
(35:05):
I think that's key.
Yeah, I love that. And I'm wondering as you engage in this work, how do you show up in a way that is inhabiting or embody this this system of ripples that you want to create.
This is the perfect example of it is being here and and participate in in and things like this.
(35:33):
Being in being in these spaces and and when then.
What I have the wind hoping that it's worthy of share.
And so I think that's how we participate in that is being the best person that we could be.
And knowledgeable and understanding of the areas that we're in.
(36:00):
So that people want to share our story.
And accepting of you know the stories that we bring and knowledge.
And so I think for me.
I definitely understand that. And I it's kind of like nature, right? This is it. I got it. It's like nature.
(36:27):
It's like seeds. It's like seeds.
So those seeds have got to be dependent on how they're transported from one place to other.
They've got to be appealing. You look at the fruits and you look at this sweet. The sweetness of the fruit.
You know, the you know, pollinators are going towards something that smells good and have got you know.
(36:52):
And got a sweet scent to it. The deer are going to eat these berries that you know they can't carry themselves.
But they make them say you know by nature, they're sweet, they're appealing.
They lend themselves to be carried farther. And so I think as individuals, that's our responsibility is to lend ourselves to be desirable to be shared.
(37:20):
That was a fun aha moment to watch and then to take it in and learn with you in this moment of discovery. That was really cool.
And so we've really focused on exactly all these amazing ways that you are such an appealing person and are such a good person for this role that you've stepped into particularly with this organization.
(37:43):
And so as you said the last 20 years as you were you know building your consultancy and and the relationships and the connections to grow your river.
And so I want to I do want to take a moment to go to look at also like where are these are these shadow aspects that we that we all struggle with.
And so actually one of the critiques that happens from this umbrella of conservation is this idea to focus only on to conserve and protect.
(38:12):
And I think you actually do a really good job of of remembering that it's actually about integration. It's it's not so much about we have to preserve something beautifully.
It's actually about how do we how do we interact with it. And then another one that sometimes can happen within this is that we're there.
(38:36):
The the sense of results can get people a little too narrow in their focus and what ends up happening is nature instead of building a relationship with nature we value it only for its usefulness.
And and and we end up struggling with well what what is it just to to feel the breath in our lungs or to experience the rain on us or to to really kind of step into that embodied experience can sometimes be hard for the network type.
(39:08):
A third thing that can be tough sometimes is that I especially experience this in that more academic setting of ecology, which is an in fact it really happened when I was at an ecology conference this summer where I was a bit shocked with how many ecologists still viewed themselves as separate from nature and almost superior because of our ability to use logic because of our ability to create experiences.
(39:37):
And it almost felt like even though they were studying nature to you know kind of do that conserve and protect mode there was this sense of almost joy or glee or pride in manipulation.
And that can become almost puppet like and so I'm curious if if this is something that you ever struggle with or is it something that you see in in people that perhaps that you work with that are doing similar work or if it's something that you have an eye on that you counterbalance with other things.
(40:16):
But I'm curious if you're open to share what resonated about that for you or not.
But most definitely I think it's interesting. I like this.
So the usefulness part is I think the usefulness part is the part that I would probably struggle with the most is the usefulness.
(40:50):
And it's it's and I think the reason is because I don't see it as being a struggle.
I say that but I don't see it as being a struggle it might affect some relationships that I have that I'm trying to develop with some of those that I see as resources or see as some of those that could really create the ripples in the places that the ripples make the begin.
(41:19):
Because it's kind of like you said about the really a lot of allies within the space that that I'm working are are those die heart conservationists.
That that are that that are kind of like okay let's leave it. And those are those are a lot of times are the people or the groups that understand or really not understand the social impacts around.
(41:56):
And what would address or have the resources to address or seek the resources to address the social impact of some of them some of the things that's happening in the environment around the environment or the exclusion of participation.
So you know the usefulness part is probably the part for me because it I look at a lot of things and I've kind of gotten stuck in the mindset of if for this land has got to be productive and producing a tangible item for.
(42:43):
For the families and landowners that we are test to help to understand to get a value or to understand that the value or the sea of value.
(43:07):
That's and so I kind of get locked in there a lot is that this is got to produce is got to produce something tangible in order to encourage this family to see it as an asset versus an liability because if it's if it's perceived as being a liability being there less likely to retain it.
(43:34):
So you know in the goal of land retention you know the easiest path is to create that value that tangible value to that land produced so I talk about getting off the end on that.
That would be but it's important I would I wouldn't I accept it I accept that that you know maybe that weakness or maybe you know that that area for opportunity because with that.
(44:21):
I think that that the greater it is the volume is there the volume thing it that's going to be a main concern within that space is is not and it's not popular you know working land is something that's that is not really popular within the space so.
(44:48):
But it's but it's important it's important and so that usefulness and that land being productive and so what that leads into is you know is that that you know I think the second is it leads kind of into that manipulation that manipulation part to manipulate the man to produce.
(45:13):
But but I think what the challenge is is is not the way that usefulness you know get to hear me into the manipulation and into and to interject some understanding in there but that usefulness really and and seeing that value that land or or trying to.
(45:38):
Trying to pull that value that man out so that landowner can see something tangible or seeing it from that standpoint is is an opportunity I think for me i've got a heavy industry background and so that's that that's that that's that little man on the so over here is saying hey.
(46:06):
But you know it and really sickly I joke about it but the.
A lot of the landowners that we're working with a lot of the co-op it is all a lot of the families are at if we look at mass of those.
(46:30):
How are you needs right.
A lot of families were working with it down around the those first two runs you know of just you know your basic survival and basic needs right and so.
(46:52):
Unfortunately a lot of the people with the resources around self actualization right and so you know you can see where usefulness is not popular.
And so you know and this and I think that to me I kind of be caught up in the useless and when it goes into some other conversations I might be really heavy on the.
(47:25):
Where he is I don't need to be you know or I might even push you some this on the family that might be my other resources but I just naturally assume because i'm that's that's the space of me is okay.
How do we how do we get this land generate so that and that's that way we just want to we just want to have trails so we can walk under the trees and right.
(47:51):
You know it's like it's like a big release oh okay let's go back to drawing board you know and and then you know so I'm looking at it like okay what opportunities might I have missed in the past with introducing trails as an opportunity you know.
So so you know so I think that's it for me is kind of tone and down the industry of that industrial background but yeah.
(48:24):
Yeah I just first want to appreciate your willingness to share so openly and to you know be willing in front you know in front of everybody's ears who is listening right now to to explore that question because it's it's a vulnerable question but I think it was so illuminating what you shared about how you do feel that push pull and you are very aware of it.
(48:47):
And the one thing that I would love to just interject if it's it's okay is I was talking with somebody who gave me a really brilliant insight around this idea of usefulness and it was it was somebody who i'm talking to about potentially being a cast member for climate of awe and they were so excited because of what they referred to as the materials on site that they could potentially use.
(49:16):
What was interesting was the person that i'm considering partnering them with said you know what if instead of the word materials we called them living beings.
You know it is a tree there is no doubt either way you know could is it a material is it a living being and could it be both usefulness would be to just like chop it down clear cut it makes makes some logs out of it.
(49:41):
And I think that the beautiful place for us to imagine is this place in between where we acknowledge that it is living beings that we can be in relationship with.
And I think it is about being living beings right I think that's it's the combination like you said I think it's definitely the combination of of the two that that makes it that makes it work I think what we end up doing a lot of times is pulling it out of one ditch and putting it in the other ditch so the speed you know and that's a nice if it owes you that drop the hand stone rock roads.
(50:24):
That's something to come and we happen in teenage years and or it might like crisis parts of the southern US.
And so I think pulling it yeah we're we're pulling out of one ditch trying to correct it and end up in the village so I think that you know and that road is is we can try to that road just just by.
(50:53):
Without being in the ditches but yeah I think it's definitely a combination of understanding it from from both aspects and so we as you know I came up with this term vertical value.
And it's looking at the forest from from understanding where do we get the we understand horizontal value like you see it it's going in and click on it or cutting it hard to make the end of the dam and it's nice horizontal right but let's look at the vertical value.
(51:36):
Let's see if we can extract some value from it being vertical we know it's got value but it's about extracting that value from it being vertical we'll get the way that is protecting water quality protecting against erosion.
By and while I've had a cat this aesthetic beauty of it standing you know and let's look at those values and see if we can extract values there and then also it's looking at you know it's some some harvesting that's got to take place at some point.
(52:17):
Because one of the things is is kind of like is that it's mimicking nature we've got to mimic nature at some point because if we don't harvest it it's going to harvest itself be harvested still it's not going to be useful to go into homes and build up furniture and things like that it's going to lock up a lot of the carbon is being sequenced by these trees.
(52:42):
You know and I think if you were to to ask a tree in a forest that's overpopulated would it rather sit there and suffer or would it rather for you know to be used to to the greater good of of its peers and of those who inhabit earth I think the tree would most likely be down with that.
(53:11):
You know that that's my thought is and so would that need to be a little conversation or is that a.
Would that need to be a little conversation or would that be a scientific conversation you know or scientific assessment you know but I think the conversation needs to be healed.
(53:39):
And and I think a lot of times that conversations not being a lot of and it's like it's just about having that conversation and seeing where but I think a lot of times it's kind of like we are in in underserved communities right now we've got a lot of people speaking on behalf of those communities that don't understand the communities but they're speaking on behalf of making decisions on the on behalf of those communities.
(54:08):
I think the same things happen when we start talking about for the exact same thing that we've got people speaking on for speaking on behalf of the tree but don't understand don't understand that the ecosystem don't understand the social structure of these communities that they're speaking on behalf of.
So I think it's understanding you know the system as a whole and address it most missing pieces instead of seeing one part of the system and seeing all the systems all messed up and not understanding how that works how that systems interactive.
(54:49):
I love that it actually brings me back to another superpower that that the network type has which is really looking at the quality of life and looking at quality of life from the human perspective as well as the forest perspective as well as the rivers perspective and really identifying that life encompasses so many things and the quality of it depends on
(55:18):
on the conversation. I think that was a really good piece that you pulled out like whether that's a scientific conversation whether that is, you know, what we're learning about how trees communicate whether that is a town hall within a community.
Or you know if it's if it's a meadow that we want to keep and trees are encroaching on it because meadows are super important to the ecosystem too so we want to thin those trees.
(55:46):
Or maybe the trees are actually growing too high for for the things that are down below it like there's so many parts to that equation and I really loved that what you where you brought us to was this super power that the network type has which is really looking at the many, many components that go
into defining what is a quality life for everything that's living.
(56:11):
Well, we are coming to the end of the hour and so there is a question that I love to ask as the final question which is what is something you wish I would have asked.
What did I miss? What do you want to talk about that I missed?
I think we we start talking about the networking tight and it's one thing that the way that I ended up in this space I think is is interesting and should be inspired to the industry and may be inspired to those that got resources trying to understand okay how does this work how can I help.
(56:59):
I'm not going to work within this space so I actually got an education in forestry or was lead to education in forestry.
I was offered a scholarship to go into forestry by international paper company and that scholarship had no strings attached to it.
(57:30):
I was just under the pretense that we want to have more black foresters in the system.
I didn't have to go work for them. I didn't have to do anything.
I don't think I do as maintained required GPA to get the scholarship and so I think efforts like that and not necessarily looking at the use for this which is kind of hard and saying we want to contribute you know or I'm going to contribute to the system.
(58:17):
And wherever it falls in the system.
This piece falls in the system but but it's a part of the system and it will help and I want to contribute to the system and I think in that contribution I think is going a long way.
(58:39):
So I think that you know those type of efforts are going to be key to addressing you know our systems need.
Thank you for that. Yeah that reminder of of where you started from and that that it sounds like the impact that that gift that scholarship.
(59:06):
And without the strings attached has influenced your entire career and how you approach it and about trying to mimic that gift and everything you do.
That's beautiful. That's a wonderful way to end the conversation.
Yeah. Maybe I'll be paper Terry.
(59:29):
Wait, how did that episode resonate? Did it stretch you inspire you or perhaps or you I'm here for it so please reach out.
Besides the socials we have a community to practice with on our website earth archetypes.com where more earth archetypes can guide your path and become dear friends.
(59:53):
And the place to start is the quiz to discover your type. Oh and on your way I'd love for you to hit the subscribe button. See you again soon.
[Music]
So Amber, so I must do out throughout this entire podcast, right?
(00:08):
I'm impressed because you actually listen to the things I say.
So I'm like, wow.
So we be talking to you, like, you take notes, you're like,
I'm gonna take it.
Look, I'm familiar with that because my uncle was a psychiatrist.
He was, when I was younger, you know, he used to keep us, he and my,
(00:32):
my, uh, they used to keep us a lot, my sister died.
And come to find out as I get older, that the reason they kept us so much was
because he was doing his dog on doctoral thesis on my sister died.
You know,
so, you know, so we were just, you know, I was starting to question why we talk a lot now.
(01:00):
[laughs]
Welcome to the EarthMates podcast.
Together, we explore how to find your path from climate anxiety to community action
by asking, who are you?
Because just like any relationship, that matters.
(01:24):
So get ready to be raw and real, but also playful and silly with me,
Chief Relationship Officer Amber Peoples,
as we discover what's possible through the lens of the five Earth archetypes.
Curiosity and subscription buttons highly encouraged.
(01:45):
Welcome, friend.
Today as we record this session, there's actually an atmospheric river coming over where I am here in Oregon across the ocean.
And also the moon itself, which even though it's daylight at the moment,
(02:06):
the moon is still doing its thing and it's waning crescent just one night past the halfway point.
So I always love to start this podcast with sharing what's around me and what I'm in relationship with.
And I'd love to everybody to take a beat as you tune into what's around you.
What I'll do is I'll silently count to five while you have that opportunity to do that.
(02:38):
Thank you.
Now I am delighted to introduce you to the network Earth type, Freddie Davis, the third.
Freddie and I met just a few months ago at Climate Week in New York.
He was looking a bit perplexed, so I asked him what's up and our friendship started with a laugh.
We dug in a bit into a wonderful grand opportunity that had just landed in his lap,
(03:03):
but he needed to complete it in two days time.
And even with that pressure, he was totally up for talking about climate of all,
which will dig into his insight soon enough.
But for now, I'm excited to share our next conversation with you, the podcast listener.
So welcome, Freddie. I'm so delighted to have this conversation with you today.
(03:26):
Oh, it's awesome to be here and thanks for the invite.
It's kind of interesting trying to imagine your environment with the, with all the things going on in the atmosphere.
So that's cool.
It is. There is definitely a force coming over from the ocean for sure.
And I'm curious, you know, I shared a little bit about that first meeting, which I know you and I continue to joke about.
(03:50):
Is there anything from your perspective about that first meeting that you'd love to share?
Yes, I looked a little perplexed.
Did you think I did?
I thought you looked interesting.
Yeah, with the high-consuming environment we were in, we were like, I was like, hmm, she's different.
(04:19):
And is that something that you gravitate towards when you're connecting with people and a thing like that is you're looking for what, what makes people stand out?
Exactly. Yeah.
Just, just so I can kind of understand how, how we relate to each other.
Yeah. So you're looking for those clues.
What's fun about that kind of comment you made is it allows us to dive right into this idea of the network type.
(04:46):
And when you say looking to connect with somebody, what I'm curious about is what does that mean for you?
Because I think for the different types, that sense of connection, that sense of belonging is different.
And I would love to hear a little bit more about what's going on for you inside your heart or your brain as you're looking to connect with somebody.
(05:07):
So it's looking for that commonality and, you know, in attitudes and interests.
So it's, and to me, that's how that bond's created because I'm constantly speaking and I'm constantly trying to convince people.
(05:36):
I'm some of the things that might not be as, as relatable to, to, to the, to the common, to everybody.
So, you know, that's kind of what I do day to day is, is that that connection and that addressing the intercession between social and environmental concerns.
(05:57):
So it's, it's usually an interesting, right there. So understanding relationships is, is kind of key.
And so that's why, you know, seeing those specific things about individuals or groups of people and trying to get that, that commonality is, is key because that's work conversation are developed from right.
(06:21):
Totally, yeah, here we are, as a direct result of that. And so when I love about, there was a couple words there that really stood out to me, commonality was key.
And then also you were talking about intersections. And that's one of the things that I want to point about, point out about you in particular, Freddie, is that, you know, none of these earth relationship types are these silos, you know, they're not intended to be that they're intended to just be kind of clues to help people identify their skill sets.
(06:50):
And one of the things that I think is important to point out about you is that you, you know, if, if we look at these types, almost like a rainbow where there's a spectrum of colors, you're very close to the, the weaver type, which is all about those interconnections and weaving together.
And so you, you have this amazing kind of dance that you do between those types that do, you know, blend together, kind of like yellow and green make blue kind of thing.
(07:19):
And so with, with the connections you're talking about and the weaving that you're talking about, are you, are you looking when, are you looking at them in a way where you see two separate things and you're looking for that line of connection, or you looking at more of an integration or a weaving, like what's, what's kind of the metaphor or the verb of that that seems to fit the way that you're looking at it.
(07:45):
And it's a combination of integrating and commonality.
And it goes more in depth into, you know, the actual feel for that person or that group of people and where that acceptance where I feel the day except it for you.
(08:06):
And so, as to whether we're just going to, you know, should I strive for that common point or should I, you know, push to in a weave and taking in as well as them taking and create something different.
So it just kind of depends on the feel idea from that relationship that's been developed in that, you know, in that seconds.
(08:34):
And I find that a lot, I speak on a lot of participating in a lot of panels panel discussions and things like that.
And one of the things that with me is, well, I want to the last right, I want to be in the middle, I want to start the conversation off because I'm steady.
And I never write anything to come prepared. It's always from what I'm gathering from my peers, either my conversations at last time conversations in the hall or just by what the other speakers or participants have talked about.
(09:11):
And just there I can put it together, put something together to kind of create that relationship with those opportunities and go from there.
I love that. I love the amount of you, you never said the word, but there's a lot of listening. That sounds like it's happening for you.
(09:34):
And as you're, as you're seeing those, those points of connection, I know the, another word that you and I have talked a lot about that you said your brain is constantly doing is, is systems putting together systems.
Do you think that that's what's happening there?
And how do you feel like that's coming together? Are you having an aha moment when you then decide what to say, or is it, are you looking for like that beaver is a keystone species within that system is it trying to find that like what, what is that way of using systems that you think is helpful in that environment.
(10:12):
Yeah, it's, it's looking with me is looking for that, that critical piece that's going to connect the parts.
It's taking its understanding in the systems is understanding both parts of that system are all parts of that system and being able to interject pieces.
(10:37):
So this thing comes from understanding those parts of that system, especially the parts that I'm not more aware of and then said, OK, here's what opportunity is to put this key mean that's going to make that system flow because it's, it's all about the whole system and that key needs to connect that whole system or address that whole system.
(11:01):
So it's, so that's where the listener comes in to understand that system and understand where I might be able to interject and make that system hold more.
In the case of the work that I'm doing more inclusive.
(11:24):
I love that even this precision on how you were using your hands to describe it about this kind of interjection and it's it had to me it had kind of a scientific feel to it because it's, it's looking for that moment of of experiment really you know you're you're seeing it all happen and I can almost see in your head your hypothesizing if I try this thing here what happens.
(11:49):
That's right, that's right, I love that that's fantastic so you know we've hinted a little bit about you being on these panels and you talking and stuff and one of the things that you mentioned in our last conversation is that you haven't worked in 20 years well clearly you're doing stuff but I would love for you to talk a little bit more about what it is you've been doing the last 20 years that you clearly are having a good time doing.
(12:16):
Well I'm a I'm a forster by education and and right now I'm working with the Federation of Southern Cooperatives which is an association of cooperatives primarily underserved black farmers landowners across the South East US.
(12:42):
And our goal in mission as organization is to advocate for those farmers to a system where it makes sense to create cooperatives with the whole goal of creating cooperatives and advocacy to support land retention amongst that group.
(13:06):
So and what we found as a forster that feel right into play because most of those landowners most of those farmers have got to component of forest that's been under utilized and as an organization we want to expose the value of forster to those cooperatives or to those farmers so it's an awesome job awesome opportunity.
(13:35):
And for generation forster so the speak on the first educated forster and first generation educated for however my actor remember being in which was my grandfather and father both in forster so so is the passion of mine.
(14:02):
So therefore I haven't worked in 20 years I enjoyed doing what I'm doing you know get up in the morning and I'm interested well I'm going to be at it like anxious for the next day so it yeah it's it's awesome experience to be able to do things and then do it and see not only just doing forster but being tiny in that social aspect and helping our people to return to land.
(14:31):
I think that's a good way to return to land I think that's a you know combined all of that work it's fun it's a fun and reward.
Thank you for sharing that that history of of your family I don't I don't think I knew that and it's really interesting that you made that comparison between you know having these generations of forsters but you having the formal education.
(14:57):
So how do you feel that that's that's different so you know there's a lot of questions around you know is apprenticeship perhaps the best way or is it education or is it a combo of the two and it definitely seems like you're in in both worlds and so I'd be so curious to hear what benefit you think is the the style that's more around inheritance and apprenticeship and then the style that is from a more formalized education.
(15:26):
Yeah most definitely there benefits to both the I think a combination for sure and we can go all back to the beginning of conversation about systems and understanding the systems.
I think in the combination you understand both sides of the system and and you can interject that key in the appropriate place when you have experiences on both ends the actual apprenticeship.
(16:00):
You know hands on has been having that education component to back it up you know education is going to give you the wise and I think the apprenticeship or hands on gives you the how gives you more context to to the actual struggle to doing it.
(16:26):
And in my case is understanding it's understanding social aspect of you know education kind of gives the scientific aspect of it but understanding you know socially why why things were done because a lot of times I just want to ask you all the questions that it needs to ask.
(16:50):
So that's going to give that exact precise correct you know in online map to get from point A to point B but there's a lot of social turns in there that's that you're going to have to take to get from point A to point B to be inclusive or you know and to address you know different things.
(17:18):
In the space so combination.
Yeah no I really appreciate that and it actually it reminds me of that first conversation we had at the nature conservancy when we were talking about climate of awe and I was talking about that i'm bringing together artists and ecologists and and you loved the story but you also are like are you are you willing to make some changes and I saw the little glint in your eye I was like oh what do you got.
(17:47):
And and your your key point was the same point you just made now which is and you you related it to the work that you do at the Federation which is.
You know oftentimes you might have the farmer come together with maybe it's a funder and everybody's excited about the story but then sometimes it can get really sticky around the how.
(18:13):
And I remember your encouragement was to to think about like what is that third component within the story that how and what I was so grateful about is that it made me realize that the how is actually the viewer.
That gives the audience in the film their job and it was it was such an amazing I didn't have that light bulb moment there it actually took me like a couple weeks of thinking about what you said before I realized oh that's what it was.
(18:44):
Yeah I remember you calling it back and saying I got it.
Awesome I love that one of the things that I think is really important in this particular type is this sense of home now everybody has you know a felt sense of that there's there's this key thing around home that.
(19:09):
ECO stands for home like ecologist economic those have that that word right in them and it's about the management or the study of home and so i'm wondering about with this kind of jet setting lifestyle you have with sharing the message looking for places of inclusivity being willing to be that person of kind of the I guess you could say front lines of that.
(19:33):
How do you find a sense of home that you are building as as you do this work.
You know I think and it probably gives me trouble right at the time but the sense of home is what the work is is what the work is happening.
(20:02):
Because there again I have it work in 20 years so it's it's really the sense of home is where when I'm with my people in the space that's that's going to be kind of where I'm grounded at that's why most comfortable that.
(20:27):
However there are not many places that are uncomfortable so I think i'm more of a wonderer.
You know in the aspect of home and and places of comfort and places of work.
(20:51):
I appreciate those layers of it it's it reminds me that you know when I when I try to explain that's for myself even though you know the art I identify as the artist type it's still all around belonging and connection and at home is such a big part of that and for me coming from a place where I had to leave my biological family and home as a teenager and and join a second home.
(21:16):
And I always go back to that around knowing that for me having that touchstone of I can I can touch something that I can say is home has always been really really important to me and it sounds like for you.
And I think that that that constant movement is a lot of fun but where you feel the home and the reason you're doing all of that that fun is it goes back to what you're trying to contribute to what feels like an internal sense of home is that accurate.
(21:52):
And while get out of me yeah yeah that's good.
I love that.
Another thing that I look at when I look at these different types is we talk about superpowers and we talk about shadow aspects because we're human we got it all.
(22:16):
And we've been talking a lot about the superpowers especially when we talk about systems when we talk about connecting things when we talk about this this sense of studying and providing home and one of the things that I think is a key aspect of the network type is that there is still a really important piece around results that there that there is an ROI.
(22:45):
When you're doing all of this when you're deciding if you're going to go to North Carolina or Louisiana or when you go back to this touchstone place called home and you have to I guess maybe the word is answer to the people that you care about there.
And so I'm wondering about what what is it that you're looking for when you're defining or deciding that something is worth doing because it'll give the result that's really important to you.
(23:11):
I think the reason I ended up in the space that I'm in with the organization I'm in is because I was a consultant consultant for us to I was working with the same land on the state I'm working with now.
And it was only so much that I could do as a consultant it was only so many people that I could have faith as a consultant it was only the resources were limited.
(23:43):
And so when the opportunity came to join this organization and this capacity then it allowed me to be able to touch more.
Landowners more people that needed the assistance that I was qualified to give and so I think that measurement that rate of return is for me is it's volume of people that I could influence.
(24:24):
Or share knowledge with so a lot of decisions on me is it's based on okay how how much volume am I going to get out and being in this place versus that place where are those potential relationships going to be built and how those relationships going to how the ripple effects of those relationships going to go is it is it.
(24:53):
Is it is it going to be a big part is it going to be a small part it's not that it's not that the small opportunities are not met but it's it's making that that no it's not that point B like we talked about earlier it's those curves in the road and things and so you know we're going from point B but.
(25:21):
A dress in those opportunities it might be where it's a connection that can be made in a place or some relationships that's made here it's not directly but indirectly it will still achieve the goal so it's about volume and developing those relationships and how those relationships are going to also.
(25:46):
Do the word that I'm doing or reach the people that I'm trying to reach as an individual and as as organization so that's that's kind of how I base that that return.
Yeah so it sounds like the i'm getting images of rivers you know the choice between tributaries or the main river you know do you do do the do the creek or do you do the Columbia River.
(26:15):
And it's not saying that the creek is not important because the river wouldn't be there without the creek.
Yeah and within that metaphor what's interesting is if if we're working with the creek in the river where do you think your farmers are that you're working for fit within that are they part of the water are they the trees because I know that when you you mentioned the word goal which based on what you said earlier it is about you know keeping the.
(26:44):
You know keeping the land within the hands of the black farmers did I did I did I did I interpret that goal correctly.
Yes and I would say in the context of creeks and streams and rivers that the farmers that represent would be intermittent strings compared to rivers and oceans.
(27:10):
Yeah okay for those of us who are not ecologists what the heck does that mean it's not always flowing it would flow during times of you know every rain falls things like that so it's not a constant flow but it's got ability to get water from one place to the next.
(27:34):
And it can so it contributes to the so when it's drier that stream might go dry whereas a creek or or just a stream would most likely maintain water but in a dry situation that intermittent is subject to going dry and and that's what we've been seeing with our farmers is that we're we're steadily you know getting dry and dry and dry.
(28:03):
As you're released to land retention.
Yeah and so that you know it's I've been following the the cop discussions that have been coming and and focusing really in specifically on words and the word that seems to really being used a lot now is this idea of circularity.
(28:28):
And it's you know it can be used so well in so many different contexts and that's that's the image that I was getting as you were describing that is is the weather cycle you know the when the when you're able to do your work where you're kind of serving as this atmospheric force to pull the water out of the Columbia river that then cycles it back to these intermittent creeks is this circularity visual that I got.
(28:54):
I think I think it would go it probably go opposite of that I think it would so the the waters actually if you look at it from a landscape standpoint the waters hitting the landscape so we're getting most of the water supplies from rain falls.
And we're getting the rain falls with and so you get that rainfall and it's hitting the landscape and a lot of it's flowing directly into you know.
(29:23):
And a lot of it flows directly into larger creeks and streams and things but you get a lot of you're a lot of what we're doing is fair through intermittent and and temporary streams and things that that you know you got of course that compound in effect you go in the in the stream to create to river to ocean.
(29:49):
So it's it's kind of like I said that that those larger bodies wouldn't be there if we didn't have those smaller bodies feeding them.
And a lot of times we don't address the smaller bodies we address the oceans and we address the we address the rivers you know and we address with so we address the larger bodies and forget about those intermittent that's there.
(30:17):
And that speed in this whole system.
And I think we can we can use that analogy and in a lot of places other than then the space we're in now.
Yeah, no, thank you for that clarification. I appreciate that that kind of going back to that sense of.
(30:42):
Because one of the things that I think is really interesting in ecology is that we understand that it is such an intertwined system but within that there are different roles that you know we give kind of the term the source so like a mountain spring even though it's water that's filtering down through the mountain for you know anywhere from 5000 years to I've even heard it could be like 20,000 years.
(31:05):
And we still call that mountain spring a source and so I'm hearing more clearly in your explanation there is that these intermittent streams are a form of source.
Yeah.
That's beautiful. Yeah.
And that makes me think of another key aspect that I really love about earth relationship types and what you know the example that just happened right now is you know I'm the artsy fartsy type that's thinking about metaphors and trying to put it in.
(31:34):
Into a visual and I'm using my hands a lot and you're adding the precision to what it is that I'm sharing and it's the reason I love that is it really exemplifies this idea of emergence.
That I want to capture when with with this idea of why kind of make people distinct into these different types is it allows us to then go OK, if this is how I'm thinking and this is how you're thinking.
(32:02):
How can we actually have one plus one equals three.
When you talk about inclusivity, I'm sure you've seen plenty of places where one plus one unfortunately maybe equals zero or even a negative number.
And and so as you as you work on these issues and you're looking for those places to kind of interject into how are you seeing this idea of emergence or creating something bigger and better.
(32:31):
Then then individuals could do on their own.
So we're going back to we'll go back to you know like you asked about the decision to be at one place or be at the other place.
And I use that analogy of building those relationships and I think that's looking at OK, how strong are those relationships and those opportunities.
(33:00):
So it's I think it's about building the relationships and building partnerships that will be sustainable.
You know even with one part not there if that makes sense it's building something.
(33:22):
You know and let me back up because I use the term sustainability in relationships and how do they share work and how those relationships can go towards achieving the goal.
But I think I like the term now regenerative a little bit better because if we sustain what we have we're not gaining.
(33:52):
And you know in the space that that I'm working in.
And we as organization of the Federation's working in we need to start gaining.
And so sustaining is good we're not losing but I think we need to be more regenerative.
We need to start creating creating opportunities creating land ownership, increasingly and ownership.
(34:19):
And so that's I think it's forming relationships that's going to be regenerative.
We go back to conversation we had just a couple of minutes ago on you know determine what space.
(34:43):
Where we're going to be what relationships are going to be. And I use the analogy of the ripple effect.
I think that's key. I think that's how we get the some of both parts of being more than the whole is developing those relationships that's going to multiply and be regenerative.
(35:05):
I think that's key.
Yeah, I love that. And I'm wondering as you engage in this work, how do you show up in a way that is inhabiting or embody this this system of ripples that you want to create.
This is the perfect example of it is being here and and participate in in and things like this.
(35:33):
Being in being in these spaces and and when then.
What I have the wind hoping that it's worthy of share.
And so I think that's how we participate in that is being the best person that we could be.
And knowledgeable and understanding of the areas that we're in.
(36:00):
So that people want to share our story.
And accepting of you know the stories that we bring and knowledge.
And so I think for me.
I definitely understand that. And I it's kind of like nature, right? This is it. I got it. It's like nature.
(36:27):
It's like seeds. It's like seeds.
So those seeds have got to be dependent on how they're transported from one place to other.
They've got to be appealing. You look at the fruits and you look at this sweet. The sweetness of the fruit.
You know, the you know, pollinators are going towards something that smells good and have got you know.
(36:52):
And got a sweet scent to it. The deer are going to eat these berries that you know they can't carry themselves.
But they make them say you know by nature, they're sweet, they're appealing.
They lend themselves to be carried farther. And so I think as individuals, that's our responsibility is to lend ourselves to be desirable to be shared.
(37:20):
That was a fun aha moment to watch and then to take it in and learn with you in this moment of discovery. That was really cool.
And so we've really focused on exactly all these amazing ways that you are such an appealing person and are such a good person for this role that you've stepped into particularly with this organization.
(37:43):
And so as you said the last 20 years as you were you know building your consultancy and and the relationships and the connections to grow your river.
And so I want to I do want to take a moment to go to look at also like where are these are these shadow aspects that we that we all struggle with.
And so actually one of the critiques that happens from this umbrella of conservation is this idea to focus only on to conserve and protect.
(38:12):
And I think you actually do a really good job of of remembering that it's actually about integration. It's it's not so much about we have to preserve something beautifully.
It's actually about how do we how do we interact with it. And then another one that sometimes can happen within this is that we're there.
(38:36):
The the sense of results can get people a little too narrow in their focus and what ends up happening is nature instead of building a relationship with nature we value it only for its usefulness.
And and and we end up struggling with well what what is it just to to feel the breath in our lungs or to experience the rain on us or to to really kind of step into that embodied experience can sometimes be hard for the network type.
(39:08):
A third thing that can be tough sometimes is that I especially experience this in that more academic setting of ecology, which is an in fact it really happened when I was at an ecology conference this summer where I was a bit shocked with how many ecologists still viewed themselves as separate from nature and almost superior because of our ability to use logic because of our ability to create experiences.
(39:37):
And it almost felt like even though they were studying nature to you know kind of do that conserve and protect mode there was this sense of almost joy or glee or pride in manipulation.
And that can become almost puppet like and so I'm curious if if this is something that you ever struggle with or is it something that you see in in people that perhaps that you work with that are doing similar work or if it's something that you have an eye on that you counterbalance with other things.
(40:16):
But I'm curious if you're open to share what resonated about that for you or not.
But most definitely I think it's interesting. I like this.
So the usefulness part is I think the usefulness part is the part that I would probably struggle with the most is the usefulness.
(40:50):
And it's it's and I think the reason is because I don't see it as being a struggle.
I say that but I don't see it as being a struggle it might affect some relationships that I have that I'm trying to develop with some of those that I see as resources or see as some of those that could really create the ripples in the places that the ripples make the begin.
(41:19):
Because it's kind of like you said about the really a lot of allies within the space that that I'm working are are those die heart conservationists.
That that are that that are kind of like okay let's leave it. And those are those are a lot of times are the people or the groups that understand or really not understand the social impacts around.
(41:56):
And what would address or have the resources to address or seek the resources to address the social impact of some of them some of the things that's happening in the environment around the environment or the exclusion of participation.
So you know the usefulness part is probably the part for me because it I look at a lot of things and I've kind of gotten stuck in the mindset of if for this land has got to be productive and producing a tangible item for.
(42:43):
For the families and landowners that we are test to help to understand to get a value or to understand that the value or the sea of value.
(43:07):
That's and so I kind of get locked in there a lot is that this is got to produce is got to produce something tangible in order to encourage this family to see it as an asset versus an liability because if it's if it's perceived as being a liability being there less likely to retain it.
(43:34):
So you know in the goal of land retention you know the easiest path is to create that value that tangible value to that land produced so I talk about getting off the end on that.
That would be but it's important I would I wouldn't I accept it I accept that that you know maybe that weakness or maybe you know that that area for opportunity because with that.
(44:21):
I think that that the greater it is the volume is there the volume thing it that's going to be a main concern within that space is is not and it's not popular you know working land is something that's that is not really popular within the space so.
(44:48):
But it's but it's important it's important and so that usefulness and that land being productive and so what that leads into is you know is that that you know I think the second is it leads kind of into that manipulation that manipulation part to manipulate the man to produce.
(45:13):
But but I think what the challenge is is is not the way that usefulness you know get to hear me into the manipulation and into and to interject some understanding in there but that usefulness really and and seeing that value that land or or trying to.
(45:38):
Trying to pull that value that man out so that landowner can see something tangible or seeing it from that standpoint is is an opportunity I think for me i've got a heavy industry background and so that's that that's that that's that little man on the so over here is saying hey.
(46:06):
But you know it and really sickly I joke about it but the.
A lot of the landowners that we're working with a lot of the co-op it is all a lot of the families are at if we look at mass of those.
(46:30):
How are you needs right.
A lot of families were working with it down around the those first two runs you know of just you know your basic survival and basic needs right and so.
(46:52):
Unfortunately a lot of the people with the resources around self actualization right and so you know you can see where usefulness is not popular.
And so you know and this and I think that to me I kind of be caught up in the useless and when it goes into some other conversations I might be really heavy on the.
(47:25):
Where he is I don't need to be you know or I might even push you some this on the family that might be my other resources but I just naturally assume because i'm that's that's the space of me is okay.
How do we how do we get this land generate so that and that's that way we just want to we just want to have trails so we can walk under the trees and right.
(47:51):
You know it's like it's like a big release oh okay let's go back to drawing board you know and and then you know so I'm looking at it like okay what opportunities might I have missed in the past with introducing trails as an opportunity you know.
So so you know so I think that's it for me is kind of tone and down the industry of that industrial background but yeah.
(48:24):
Yeah I just first want to appreciate your willingness to share so openly and to you know be willing in front you know in front of everybody's ears who is listening right now to to explore that question because it's it's a vulnerable question but I think it was so illuminating what you shared about how you do feel that push pull and you are very aware of it.
(48:47):
And the one thing that I would love to just interject if it's it's okay is I was talking with somebody who gave me a really brilliant insight around this idea of usefulness and it was it was somebody who i'm talking to about potentially being a cast member for climate of awe and they were so excited because of what they referred to as the materials on site that they could potentially use.
(49:16):
What was interesting was the person that i'm considering partnering them with said you know what if instead of the word materials we called them living beings.
You know it is a tree there is no doubt either way you know could is it a material is it a living being and could it be both usefulness would be to just like chop it down clear cut it makes makes some logs out of it.
(49:41):
And I think that the beautiful place for us to imagine is this place in between where we acknowledge that it is living beings that we can be in relationship with.
And I think it is about being living beings right I think that's it's the combination like you said I think it's definitely the combination of of the two that that makes it that makes it work I think what we end up doing a lot of times is pulling it out of one ditch and putting it in the other ditch so the speed you know and that's a nice if it owes you that drop the hand stone rock roads.
(50:24):
That's something to come and we happen in teenage years and or it might like crisis parts of the southern US.
And so I think pulling it yeah we're we're pulling out of one ditch trying to correct it and end up in the village so I think that you know and that road is is we can try to that road just just by.
(50:53):
Without being in the ditches but yeah I think it's definitely a combination of understanding it from from both aspects and so we as you know I came up with this term vertical value.
And it's looking at the forest from from understanding where do we get the we understand horizontal value like you see it it's going in and click on it or cutting it hard to make the end of the dam and it's nice horizontal right but let's look at the vertical value.
(51:36):
Let's see if we can extract some value from it being vertical we know it's got value but it's about extracting that value from it being vertical we'll get the way that is protecting water quality protecting against erosion.
By and while I've had a cat this aesthetic beauty of it standing you know and let's look at those values and see if we can extract values there and then also it's looking at you know it's some some harvesting that's got to take place at some point.
(52:17):
Because one of the things is is kind of like is that it's mimicking nature we've got to mimic nature at some point because if we don't harvest it it's going to harvest itself be harvested still it's not going to be useful to go into homes and build up furniture and things like that it's going to lock up a lot of the carbon is being sequenced by these trees.
(52:42):
You know and I think if you were to to ask a tree in a forest that's overpopulated would it rather sit there and suffer or would it rather for you know to be used to to the greater good of of its peers and of those who inhabit earth I think the tree would most likely be down with that.
(53:11):
You know that that's my thought is and so would that need to be a little conversation or is that a.
Would that need to be a little conversation or would that be a scientific conversation you know or scientific assessment you know but I think the conversation needs to be healed.
(53:39):
And and I think a lot of times that conversations not being a lot of and it's like it's just about having that conversation and seeing where but I think a lot of times it's kind of like we are in in underserved communities right now we've got a lot of people speaking on behalf of those communities that don't understand the communities but they're speaking on behalf of making decisions on the on behalf of those communities.
(54:08):
I think the same things happen when we start talking about for the exact same thing that we've got people speaking on for speaking on behalf of the tree but don't understand don't understand that the ecosystem don't understand the social structure of these communities that they're speaking on behalf of.
So I think it's understanding you know the system as a whole and address it most missing pieces instead of seeing one part of the system and seeing all the systems all messed up and not understanding how that works how that systems interactive.
(54:49):
I love that it actually brings me back to another superpower that that the network type has which is really looking at the quality of life and looking at quality of life from the human perspective as well as the forest perspective as well as the rivers perspective and really identifying that life encompasses so many things and the quality of it depends on
(55:18):
on the conversation. I think that was a really good piece that you pulled out like whether that's a scientific conversation whether that is, you know, what we're learning about how trees communicate whether that is a town hall within a community.
Or you know if it's if it's a meadow that we want to keep and trees are encroaching on it because meadows are super important to the ecosystem too so we want to thin those trees.
(55:46):
Or maybe the trees are actually growing too high for for the things that are down below it like there's so many parts to that equation and I really loved that what you where you brought us to was this super power that the network type has which is really looking at the many, many components that go
into defining what is a quality life for everything that's living.
(56:11):
Well, we are coming to the end of the hour and so there is a question that I love to ask as the final question which is what is something you wish I would have asked.
What did I miss? What do you want to talk about that I missed?
I think we we start talking about the networking tight and it's one thing that the way that I ended up in this space I think is is interesting and should be inspired to the industry and may be inspired to those that got resources trying to understand okay how does this work how can I help.
(56:59):
I'm not going to work within this space so I actually got an education in forestry or was lead to education in forestry.
I was offered a scholarship to go into forestry by international paper company and that scholarship had no strings attached to it.
(57:30):
I was just under the pretense that we want to have more black foresters in the system.
I didn't have to go work for them. I didn't have to do anything.
I don't think I do as maintained required GPA to get the scholarship and so I think efforts like that and not necessarily looking at the use for this which is kind of hard and saying we want to contribute you know or I'm going to contribute to the system.
(58:17):
And wherever it falls in the system.
This piece falls in the system but but it's a part of the system and it will help and I want to contribute to the system and I think in that contribution I think is going a long way.
(58:39):
So I think that you know those type of efforts are going to be key to addressing you know our systems need.
Thank you for that. Yeah that reminder of of where you started from and that that it sounds like the impact that that gift that scholarship.
(59:06):
And without the strings attached has influenced your entire career and how you approach it and about trying to mimic that gift and everything you do.
That's beautiful. That's a wonderful way to end the conversation.
Yeah. Maybe I'll be paper Terry.
(59:29):
Wait, how did that episode resonate? Did it stretch you inspire you or perhaps or you I'm here for it so please reach out.
Besides the socials we have a community to practice with on our website earth archetypes.com where more earth archetypes can guide your path and become dear friends.
(59:53):
And the place to start is the quiz to discover your type. Oh and on your way I'd love for you to hit the subscribe button. See you again soon.
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