October 20, 2025 • 20 mins
In this episode of Echoes Through Eternity, Dr. Jeffery D. Skinner discusses the concept of toxic growth within the church, emphasizing that not all growth is beneficial. He argues that true growth should be measured by spiritual health and discipleship rather than mere numbers. The conversation explores the dangers of equating attendance with success, the importance of faithfulness in ministry, and the distinction between healthy and toxic growth dynamics. Ultimately, Dr. Skinner calls for a return to the core mission of making disciples and emphasizes that genuine growth is a result of God's presence and work in the church.
Takeaways
Not all growth is good growth.
Church growth without disciple making is just a crowd.
We replaced disciple making with personal branding.
You can fill pews without filling hearts.
Toxic growth blinds us with pride.
Healthy growth is fruit from obedience.
Faithfulness is never wasted.
Growth is not the goal, Faithfulness is.
The church doesn't need more hype.
It needs holiness.It's God who gives the increase.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/echoes-through-eternity-with-dr-jeffery-skinner--5523198/support.
Echoes Through Eternity Guiding church planters and pastors to plant seeds of prayer, holiness, and courage that outlast a lifetime. contact drjefferydskinner@protonmail.com
Takeaways
Not all growth is good growth.
Church growth without disciple making is just a crowd.
We replaced disciple making with personal branding.
You can fill pews without filling hearts.
Toxic growth blinds us with pride.
Healthy growth is fruit from obedience.
Faithfulness is never wasted.
Growth is not the goal, Faithfulness is.
The church doesn't need more hype.
It needs holiness.It's God who gives the increase.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/echoes-through-eternity-with-dr-jeffery-skinner--5523198/support.
Echoes Through Eternity Guiding church planters and pastors to plant seeds of prayer, holiness, and courage that outlast a lifetime. contact drjefferydskinner@protonmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Snow was falling outside just enough, the trees were dusty,
and to make the world quiet inside, the lights from
the Christmas tree flickered across the room. Lisa was pouring
cocoa into the mugs while I started the fire, watching
it glow. Hayden and Blaine were home and stretched out
(00:22):
on the couch and matching pajamas, laughing and sneaking extra marshmallows,
like the little kids again, and for a moment everything
slowed down. No rushing, no deadlines, just peace. I remember thinking,
this is what matters. Lisa had wanted this Christmas to
feel different, less noise, more meaning. The kids were growing
(00:43):
up and we knew that time was fleeting with them.
So she said, let's give something that feels like rest,
and she found it in Cozy Earth. When everyone opened
their gifts, the room got quiet in that good way.
The bamboo sheet set wasn't just another present, It was
a promise of calm. Lisa smiled and said, a silent
(01:05):
night stars with the right sheet starts with the right sheets.
We all laughed, but the truth hit home. Those sheets
didn't just feel like feel soft, they felt like peace.
I opened the men's stretched nip bamboo pajama set, and
Lisa got the women's long sleep set. Hayden and Blaine
slipped into theirs right after. Within minutes, we were all
(01:29):
cozied up, half talking, half dozing by the fire. Blaine
mumbled the best Christmas gift ever, right before falling asleep
on the couch. He loves sleep. Lisa looked at me
and whispered, this is what I wanted. She was right.
It wasn't about the gifts, it was about the stillness.
They created. Cozy Earth somehow turned comfort into something sacred.
(01:55):
Every Cozy Earth betting product comes with one hundred nights
sleep trial ten your warranty. You can gift confidently, knowing
as a gift that lasts, whether it's sheets pajamas are both.
Cozy Earth transforms ordinary comfort into peace. Visit cozyearth dot
com and use my exclusive forty percent coach Jeff to
(02:18):
give the gift of luxury this holiday season. And if
you happen to get a post purchase survey mention that
you heard about Cozy Earth from Echos through Eternity. Because
the gifts aren't wrapped in paper, they're wrapped in warmth,
piece and love. Cozy earth, wrap the ones you love
in luxury.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Marcus Obrelius said, what we do in life echoes through eternity.
What is your life echoing through eternity? Welcome to Echoes
through Eternity with doctor Jeffrey Skinner. Our mission is to inspire,
engage and encourage leaders from across the globe to plant
missional churches and be servant leaders. So join us and
(03:01):
here are the stories of servant leaders reverberating lives as
God echoes them through eternity, brought to you by missional
church planting and leadership development and dynamic church planning, International.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well Command that goes through eternity. I am your host,
Doctor Jeffrey D. Skinner. What is God echoing through your life? Today?
Here on that goes through Eternity? We explore how God's
truth resonates through history, leadership, and the human heart, calling
us to live with courage, conviction, and grace in our generation.
(03:38):
But today I want to talk about toxic growth. Did
you know that not all growth is good growth? That
probably sounds a little strange in the culture obsessed with
progress platforms and statistics, But in the Kingdom of God,
growth must be measured by health not size. Astetser once
(03:59):
wrote church growth without disciple making, it's just a crowd.
That's the tension many planters face today. Churches may be
growing faster than ever, yet producing fewer disciples. We've heard
a lot of news lately about gen Z coming back
to church and drawing huge crowds at church. But the
(04:20):
question is are those churches making disciples of gen Z
or are they just happy to be drawing a crowd. Yes,
we absolutely know that the truth does not that the
Word of God does not return void. But the danger
when you have something that going on isn't decline, it's deception.
(04:40):
We confuse expansion with effectiveness. The mission of church planting
or the church period has has not changed. Jesus gave
us our mission clearly, go and make disciples. That's it.
It's not go build a brand, it's not go attract followers.
It's go make disciples. Regardless of denomination, framework, or leadership style.
(05:05):
Your mission hasn't changed. Your purpose is to form people
who look, think, and act like Christ. There's a brand
new church starting up in Jackson, Tennessee. I know the
pastor Eddie and his wife Lauren, and they're just a
fantastic couple, wonderful young family, and they have decided to
(05:28):
name their church Deformed because they get it. The church
is about a form people forming a specific way. And
make no mistake, something is going to form you. Either
the world is going to form you, technology is going
to form you, algorithms are going to form you, or
(05:49):
Jesus can form you. The Word of God can form you.
They recognize that somewhere along the way we replaced disciple
making with personal branding. We started measuring success by followers,
budgets and building projects. The pressure to grow became so
normal that many pastors no visible growth with spiritual approval.
(06:12):
But influence is not the same as anointing. Yes, leadership
is influenced, but popularity does not equal presence. John Maxwell
says success without a successor is failure. If you know me,
you know I love polo shirts. Well Men's Journal has
rated Hypernatural the best men's polo shirts of twenty twenty four.
(06:36):
Hypernatural offers polos, te's and button ups that deliver unmatched
comfort and style, featuring hyper cool Jade technology for natural cooling.
You can enjoy an exclusive twenty percent discount with my
promo code Jeff at hypernaturalstyle dot com. Leadership that doesn't
(06:57):
reproduce disciples is incomplete. You can fill pews without feeling hearts.
You can gain applause and lose the mission. Jesus didn't
command his followers to manage attendance. He called them to
make apprentices of the kingdom. Dave Ferguson reminds us that
movements don't happen through addition. They happen through multiplication. Yet
(07:19):
multiplication without maturity turns toxic. We can multiply dysfunction just
as easy as we can multiply disciples. If the DNA
is unhealthy, growth only magnifies the sickness. Jesus made the
standard of discipleship painfully clear. If anyone would come after me,
(07:44):
let him deny himself and take up his cross daily
and follow me. For whoever would save his life will
lose it. But whoever loses his life for my sake
will save it. Luke nine, twenty three, twenty four. Following
is about achievement. It's about surrender. It's not about finding yourself.
(08:05):
It's about dying to yourself. It's not about ascending platforms.
It's about carrying crosses. Yet much of our modern culture
avoids that reality. We preach victory without death, blessing without burden,
leadership without sacrifice. That's toxic. That's toxic. Growth, expansion without discipleship.
(08:29):
I listened to a podcast recently where two pastors were
debating a cultural issue, and I'm not gonna tell you
what the cultural issue is, but it's a very hot
button issue right now. Didn't have anything to do don Trump.
But one defeated his stance by saying, our church is
growing faster than ever. Clearly we're doing something right. Well,
(08:51):
that's logic is dangerous. Growth is not proof of God's approval.
The Pharisees were powerful. False prophets were popular. Herod drew
a crowd, But Herod was not our model. It is
not our model. Growth can signal compromise just as easily
as blessing. A wise voice once said, if God is
(09:12):
always on your side, you need to examine your perspective.
Richard rre put it more sharply. Every viewpoint is a
view from a point, and we had best know our
own awareness keeps us humble. Toxic growth blinds us with pride.
It convinces us that size equals truth and affirmation equals anointing.
(09:36):
Doctor Shawana Gaines, my pastor at Trabeca Community Church, has
been preaching through the Book of Joshua. One of the
things I have loved about this last seven years of
my life, this last season of my ministry, is I've
been doing chaplaincy work. And yes, I've done some preaching,
and I've done some teaching here and there, but the
vast majority of what I have done is sat under
(09:59):
the lead readership of other pastors. I sat unto the
leadership of a fantastic preacher in Gainesville, Georgia, a Reverend
Gary Huff, who was by vocational and modeled for me
what it was like to serve faithfully but also have
a very demanding job. I served and uh and or
pastored by Reverend Brad Bellamy at Lilburn Church and then
(10:22):
Hazarene down in Lilburn, Georgia, fantastic preacher in his own right.
He taught me that that uh, you know, political stances
and points of view or are just that in fact,
that Richard Wre, that Richard Grore quote that I gave
you your here I got from him. What stands out
to me about listening to scriptures from other people's perspective
(10:46):
is how the scripture is alive depending upon my season,
I hear it differently. I can hear uh doctor Shawana
Gaines speak and preach about Joshua, but I can hear
someone in the same service read the same scripture, and
I'll hear something else. There's actually a spiritual practice called
the alexio divina and it just means holy reading. And
(11:07):
it's an old spiritual practice where you sit down and
you read the scripture and then you read out loud,
and maybe somebody else reads it. Maybe it's a female
that reads it, maybe it's a different accent that reads it.
And every time someone reads the scriptures, you stop and
you reflect and you ask yourself what stood out about
(11:27):
that scripture. What has stood out with to me, as
Shauna has gone through Joshua and her husband Tim has
also preached Thrown as well, what has stood out to
me is how every victory Israel experience came not from
their power but from God's presence. They didn't win Jericho
through strategy, they didn't cross the Jordan through ingenuity. God
(11:51):
went before them. When Israel took credit for what God
had done, they lost the pattern is clear. Victory is
born of pride in the failure. James Finley said, God's
presence is not something you must attain, It's what you
must awaken to. That's the secret of kingdom leadership. The
(12:12):
church grows when God moves, not when we manufacture. Healthy
growth is fruit from obedience, not the result of cleverness.
Topxic growth happens when charisma outruns character. When I was young,
I spent many days in my grand dady's garden. Every
spring he plowed the soil he is, spread manure and
(12:35):
planted sea and Lord, do I remember the smell, the odor,
the odor of that manure. It was horrible, especially when
it would rain. There was just a light rain and
it got wet and then it was moist. It was
horrible stuff, But it was preparation. It was faithfulness, and
(12:57):
it wasn't always glamorous. Every year my granddaddy prayed for rain,
he tended his rose, he worked the field faithfully. But
no matter how consistent he was, the harvest was never
the same. Some years were bountiful, others were laying. He
couldn't control the rain or the sun. His job was faithfulness,
(13:17):
not the outcome. And that's a word for pastors today.
You can pray, preach, serve faithfully and still not see
explosive growth. That doesn't mean you're failing. Faithfulness is never wasted.
It doesn't mean you're not being faithful. It doesn't mean
that God is somehow displeased with your work. My granddaddy
had third grade education, but he pastored faithfully. He pastored
(13:42):
just like he planted his garden. His church never grew
beyond twenty but he loved well, He preached holiness and
lived a life of prayer. If success is measured by obedience,
he was one of the greats. If it's measured by attendance,
the world would miss his impact entirely. We love to
(14:04):
talk about winning in ministry, as though God grades on tendants,
but the Bible never measures success in numbers. Jesus measured
fruit by transformation, by love, repentance, and obedience, and those
are the things that spirit controls. All we do is
be faithful and obedient. In fact, Scripture tells us neither
(14:26):
he who plants or he who waters is anything, but
only God gives the growth. First Corinthians three seven. That's freeing.
It means we don't control it. We can't manufacture it.
Our role is participation, not possession. Healthy growth depends on
God Tonstic growth depends on us. Some churches grow by
(14:51):
joining the cultural wars. They build crowds through outrage and
attract followers by frightening, by fighting enemies. Every battle comes
a badge of faithfulness. But God is not a weapon
to be wielded in our ideological crusades. The kingdom doesn't
advance through anger. It advances through love and truth. If
(15:13):
you're always in a war, you're always need an enemy.
That's how toxic growth works. It needs It feeds on division,
It multiplies hostility. It may look alive, but it's killing
the body from within. Healthy growth is different, is slower, deeper,
(15:34):
spirit led. It produces disciples who reflect Jesus, not pundans
who hack other culture. If you're discouraged because your church
isn't taking off, take heart. You're not failing. If you're faithful,
the unseen work of prayer and holiness counts more than
the visible crown. Growth is not the goal. Faithfulness is
(15:58):
numbers fade, a buildies crumble, but disciples remain. The church
doesn't need more hype. It needs holiness. It doesn't need
celebrity pastors. It needs shepherds. So plant faithfully, water, prayerfully,
and wait patiently because it's God who gives the increase.
(16:21):
And when we awaken to His presence, that's what that's
when real growth begins. Before we ever see outward growth,
the inward growth is taking place. That's where the deepest
work of the Holy Spirit begins. Well, this was the
(16:41):
end of today's episode. And if you're listening to this,
please support our sponsors, which is so we're our sponsors,
and and you know, tell your friends, tell your neighbors,
share this on your own social media because we want
(17:01):
people to find out. We want people to hear about
about this, sun this well to hear. We want people
to hear about this so that they can spread the
word so that they can be encouraged. This podcast is
not about building a brand for me. Uh, It's simply
about being faithful. It's has part of the ways that
I am faithful today. Well again that's at the end
(17:24):
of today's that go what is God that? Going the
end of today's episode, what is God that going through
your life? Today? Snow was falling outside. It's just enough
(17:45):
that the trees were dusty, and to make the world
quiet inside, the lights from the Christmas tree flickered across
the room. Lisa was pouring cocoa into the mugs while
I started the fire, watching it glow. Hayden and Blame
were home and stretched out on the couch and matching pajamas,
(18:06):
laughing and sneaking extra marshmallows like the little kids again,
and for a moment everything slowed down. No rushing, no deadlines,
just peace. I remember thinking, this is what matters. Lisa
had wanted this Christmas to feel different, less noise, more meaning.
The kids were growing up and we knew that time
(18:29):
was fleeting with them. So she said, let's give something
that feels like rest, and she found it in Cozy Earth.
When everyone opened their gifts, the room got quiet in
that good way. The bamboo sheet said wasn't just another present,
it was a promise of calm. Lisa smiled and said,
a silent night stars with the right sheet, starts with
(18:51):
the right sheets. We all laughed, but the truth hit home.
Those sheets didn't just feel like feel soft, they felt
like peace opened to men's stretched nip. Bamboo pajama set
and Lisa got the women's Long Sleep set. Hayden and
Blaine slipped into theirs right after. Within minutes, we were
(19:11):
all cozied up, half talking, half dozing by the fire.
Blame mumbled the best Christmas gift ever, right before falling
asleep on the couch. He loves sleep. Lisa looked at
me and whispered, this is what I wanted. She was right.
It wasn't about the gifts, it was about the stillness.
They created. Cozy Earth somehow turned comfort into something sacred.
(19:37):
Every Cozy Earth betting product comes with one hundred nights
sleep trial and tenure warranty. You can gift confidently knowing
it's a gift that last. Whether a sheets, pajamas, or both.
Cozy Earth transforms ordinary comfort into peace. Visit cozyearth dot
com and use my exclusive forty percent coach to give
(20:00):
the gift of luxury this holiday season. And if you
happen to get a post purchase survey mentioned that you
heard about Cozy Earths from Mecos through Eternity. Because the
gifts aren't wrapped in paper, they're wrapped in warmth, peace
and love, Cozy Earth wrap the ones you love in
luxury
Snow was falling outside just enough, the trees were dusty,
and to make the world quiet inside, the lights from
the Christmas tree flickered across the room. Lisa was pouring
cocoa into the mugs while I started the fire, watching
it glow. Hayden and Blaine were home and stretched out
(00:22):
on the couch and matching pajamas, laughing and sneaking extra marshmallows,
like the little kids again, and for a moment everything
slowed down. No rushing, no deadlines, just peace. I remember thinking,
this is what matters. Lisa had wanted this Christmas to
feel different, less noise, more meaning. The kids were growing
(00:43):
up and we knew that time was fleeting with them.
So she said, let's give something that feels like rest,
and she found it in Cozy Earth. When everyone opened
their gifts, the room got quiet in that good way.
The bamboo sheet set wasn't just another present, It was
a promise of calm. Lisa smiled and said, a silent
(01:05):
night stars with the right sheet starts with the right sheets.
We all laughed, but the truth hit home. Those sheets
didn't just feel like feel soft, they felt like peace.
I opened the men's stretched nip bamboo pajama set, and
Lisa got the women's long sleep set. Hayden and Blaine
slipped into theirs right after. Within minutes, we were all
(01:29):
cozied up, half talking, half dozing by the fire. Blaine
mumbled the best Christmas gift ever, right before falling asleep
on the couch. He loves sleep. Lisa looked at me
and whispered, this is what I wanted. She was right.
It wasn't about the gifts, it was about the stillness.
They created. Cozy Earth somehow turned comfort into something sacred.
(01:55):
Every Cozy Earth betting product comes with one hundred nights
sleep trial ten your warranty. You can gift confidently, knowing
as a gift that lasts, whether it's sheets pajamas are both.
Cozy Earth transforms ordinary comfort into peace. Visit cozyearth dot
com and use my exclusive forty percent coach Jeff to
(02:18):
give the gift of luxury this holiday season. And if
you happen to get a post purchase survey mention that
you heard about Cozy Earth from Echos through Eternity. Because
the gifts aren't wrapped in paper, they're wrapped in warmth,
piece and love. Cozy earth, wrap the ones you love
in luxury.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Marcus Obrelius said, what we do in life echoes through eternity.
What is your life echoing through eternity? Welcome to Echoes
through Eternity with doctor Jeffrey Skinner. Our mission is to inspire,
engage and encourage leaders from across the globe to plant
missional churches and be servant leaders. So join us and
(03:01):
here are the stories of servant leaders reverberating lives as
God echoes them through eternity, brought to you by missional
church planting and leadership development and dynamic church planning, International.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well Command that goes through eternity. I am your host,
Doctor Jeffrey D. Skinner. What is God echoing through your life? Today?
Here on that goes through Eternity? We explore how God's
truth resonates through history, leadership, and the human heart, calling
us to live with courage, conviction, and grace in our generation.
(03:38):
But today I want to talk about toxic growth. Did
you know that not all growth is good growth? That
probably sounds a little strange in the culture obsessed with
progress platforms and statistics, But in the Kingdom of God,
growth must be measured by health not size. Astetser once
(03:59):
wrote church growth without disciple making, it's just a crowd.
That's the tension many planters face today. Churches may be
growing faster than ever, yet producing fewer disciples. We've heard
a lot of news lately about gen Z coming back
to church and drawing huge crowds at church. But the
(04:20):
question is are those churches making disciples of gen Z
or are they just happy to be drawing a crowd. Yes,
we absolutely know that the truth does not that the
Word of God does not return void. But the danger
when you have something that going on isn't decline, it's deception.
(04:40):
We confuse expansion with effectiveness. The mission of church planting
or the church period has has not changed. Jesus gave
us our mission clearly, go and make disciples. That's it.
It's not go build a brand, it's not go attract followers.
It's go make disciples. Regardless of denomination, framework, or leadership style.
(05:05):
Your mission hasn't changed. Your purpose is to form people
who look, think, and act like Christ. There's a brand
new church starting up in Jackson, Tennessee. I know the
pastor Eddie and his wife Lauren, and they're just a
fantastic couple, wonderful young family, and they have decided to
(05:28):
name their church Deformed because they get it. The church
is about a form people forming a specific way. And
make no mistake, something is going to form you. Either
the world is going to form you, technology is going
to form you, algorithms are going to form you, or
(05:49):
Jesus can form you. The Word of God can form you.
They recognize that somewhere along the way we replaced disciple
making with personal branding. We started measuring success by followers,
budgets and building projects. The pressure to grow became so
normal that many pastors no visible growth with spiritual approval.
(06:12):
But influence is not the same as anointing. Yes, leadership
is influenced, but popularity does not equal presence. John Maxwell
says success without a successor is failure. If you know me,
you know I love polo shirts. Well Men's Journal has
rated Hypernatural the best men's polo shirts of twenty twenty four.
(06:36):
Hypernatural offers polos, te's and button ups that deliver unmatched
comfort and style, featuring hyper cool Jade technology for natural cooling.
You can enjoy an exclusive twenty percent discount with my
promo code Jeff at hypernaturalstyle dot com. Leadership that doesn't
(06:57):
reproduce disciples is incomplete. You can fill pews without feeling hearts.
You can gain applause and lose the mission. Jesus didn't
command his followers to manage attendance. He called them to
make apprentices of the kingdom. Dave Ferguson reminds us that
movements don't happen through addition. They happen through multiplication. Yet
(07:19):
multiplication without maturity turns toxic. We can multiply dysfunction just
as easy as we can multiply disciples. If the DNA
is unhealthy, growth only magnifies the sickness. Jesus made the
standard of discipleship painfully clear. If anyone would come after me,
(07:44):
let him deny himself and take up his cross daily
and follow me. For whoever would save his life will
lose it. But whoever loses his life for my sake
will save it. Luke nine, twenty three, twenty four. Following
is about achievement. It's about surrender. It's not about finding yourself.
(08:05):
It's about dying to yourself. It's not about ascending platforms.
It's about carrying crosses. Yet much of our modern culture
avoids that reality. We preach victory without death, blessing without burden,
leadership without sacrifice. That's toxic. That's toxic. Growth, expansion without discipleship.
(08:29):
I listened to a podcast recently where two pastors were
debating a cultural issue, and I'm not gonna tell you
what the cultural issue is, but it's a very hot
button issue right now. Didn't have anything to do don Trump.
But one defeated his stance by saying, our church is
growing faster than ever. Clearly we're doing something right. Well,
(08:51):
that's logic is dangerous. Growth is not proof of God's approval.
The Pharisees were powerful. False prophets were popular. Herod drew
a crowd, But Herod was not our model. It is
not our model. Growth can signal compromise just as easily
as blessing. A wise voice once said, if God is
(09:12):
always on your side, you need to examine your perspective.
Richard rre put it more sharply. Every viewpoint is a
view from a point, and we had best know our
own awareness keeps us humble. Toxic growth blinds us with pride.
It convinces us that size equals truth and affirmation equals anointing.
(09:36):
Doctor Shawana Gaines, my pastor at Trabeca Community Church, has
been preaching through the Book of Joshua. One of the
things I have loved about this last seven years of
my life, this last season of my ministry, is I've
been doing chaplaincy work. And yes, I've done some preaching,
and I've done some teaching here and there, but the
vast majority of what I have done is sat under
(09:59):
the lead readership of other pastors. I sat unto the
leadership of a fantastic preacher in Gainesville, Georgia, a Reverend
Gary Huff, who was by vocational and modeled for me
what it was like to serve faithfully but also have
a very demanding job. I served and uh and or
pastored by Reverend Brad Bellamy at Lilburn Church and then
(10:22):
Hazarene down in Lilburn, Georgia, fantastic preacher in his own right.
He taught me that that uh, you know, political stances
and points of view or are just that in fact,
that Richard Wre, that Richard Grore quote that I gave
you your here I got from him. What stands out
to me about listening to scriptures from other people's perspective
(10:46):
is how the scripture is alive depending upon my season,
I hear it differently. I can hear uh doctor Shawana
Gaines speak and preach about Joshua, but I can hear
someone in the same service read the same scripture, and
I'll hear something else. There's actually a spiritual practice called
the alexio divina and it just means holy reading. And
(11:07):
it's an old spiritual practice where you sit down and
you read the scripture and then you read out loud,
and maybe somebody else reads it. Maybe it's a female
that reads it, maybe it's a different accent that reads it.
And every time someone reads the scriptures, you stop and
you reflect and you ask yourself what stood out about
(11:27):
that scripture. What has stood out with to me, as
Shauna has gone through Joshua and her husband Tim has
also preached Thrown as well, what has stood out to
me is how every victory Israel experience came not from
their power but from God's presence. They didn't win Jericho
through strategy, they didn't cross the Jordan through ingenuity. God
(11:51):
went before them. When Israel took credit for what God
had done, they lost the pattern is clear. Victory is
born of pride in the failure. James Finley said, God's
presence is not something you must attain, It's what you
must awaken to. That's the secret of kingdom leadership. The
(12:12):
church grows when God moves, not when we manufacture. Healthy
growth is fruit from obedience, not the result of cleverness.
Topxic growth happens when charisma outruns character. When I was young,
I spent many days in my grand dady's garden. Every
spring he plowed the soil he is, spread manure and
(12:35):
planted sea and Lord, do I remember the smell, the odor,
the odor of that manure. It was horrible, especially when
it would rain. There was just a light rain and
it got wet and then it was moist. It was
horrible stuff, But it was preparation. It was faithfulness, and
(12:57):
it wasn't always glamorous. Every year my granddaddy prayed for rain,
he tended his rose, he worked the field faithfully. But
no matter how consistent he was, the harvest was never
the same. Some years were bountiful, others were laying. He
couldn't control the rain or the sun. His job was faithfulness,
(13:17):
not the outcome. And that's a word for pastors today.
You can pray, preach, serve faithfully and still not see
explosive growth. That doesn't mean you're failing. Faithfulness is never wasted.
It doesn't mean you're not being faithful. It doesn't mean
that God is somehow displeased with your work. My granddaddy
had third grade education, but he pastored faithfully. He pastored
(13:42):
just like he planted his garden. His church never grew
beyond twenty but he loved well, He preached holiness and
lived a life of prayer. If success is measured by obedience,
he was one of the greats. If it's measured by attendance,
the world would miss his impact entirely. We love to
(14:04):
talk about winning in ministry, as though God grades on tendants,
but the Bible never measures success in numbers. Jesus measured
fruit by transformation, by love, repentance, and obedience, and those
are the things that spirit controls. All we do is
be faithful and obedient. In fact, Scripture tells us neither
(14:26):
he who plants or he who waters is anything, but
only God gives the growth. First Corinthians three seven. That's freeing.
It means we don't control it. We can't manufacture it.
Our role is participation, not possession. Healthy growth depends on
God Tonstic growth depends on us. Some churches grow by
(14:51):
joining the cultural wars. They build crowds through outrage and
attract followers by frightening, by fighting enemies. Every battle comes
a badge of faithfulness. But God is not a weapon
to be wielded in our ideological crusades. The kingdom doesn't
advance through anger. It advances through love and truth. If
(15:13):
you're always in a war, you're always need an enemy.
That's how toxic growth works. It needs It feeds on division,
It multiplies hostility. It may look alive, but it's killing
the body from within. Healthy growth is different, is slower, deeper,
(15:34):
spirit led. It produces disciples who reflect Jesus, not pundans
who hack other culture. If you're discouraged because your church
isn't taking off, take heart. You're not failing. If you're faithful,
the unseen work of prayer and holiness counts more than
the visible crown. Growth is not the goal. Faithfulness is
(15:58):
numbers fade, a buildies crumble, but disciples remain. The church
doesn't need more hype. It needs holiness. It doesn't need
celebrity pastors. It needs shepherds. So plant faithfully, water, prayerfully,
and wait patiently because it's God who gives the increase.
(16:21):
And when we awaken to His presence, that's what that's
when real growth begins. Before we ever see outward growth,
the inward growth is taking place. That's where the deepest
work of the Holy Spirit begins. Well, this was the
(16:41):
end of today's episode. And if you're listening to this,
please support our sponsors, which is so we're our sponsors,
and and you know, tell your friends, tell your neighbors,
share this on your own social media because we want
(17:01):
people to find out. We want people to hear about
about this, sun this well to hear. We want people
to hear about this so that they can spread the
word so that they can be encouraged. This podcast is
not about building a brand for me. Uh, It's simply
about being faithful. It's has part of the ways that
I am faithful today. Well again that's at the end
(17:24):
of today's that go what is God that? Going the
end of today's episode, what is God that going through
your life? Today? Snow was falling outside. It's just enough
(17:45):
that the trees were dusty, and to make the world
quiet inside, the lights from the Christmas tree flickered across
the room. Lisa was pouring cocoa into the mugs while
I started the fire, watching it glow. Hayden and Blame
were home and stretched out on the couch and matching pajamas,
(18:06):
laughing and sneaking extra marshmallows like the little kids again,
and for a moment everything slowed down. No rushing, no deadlines,
just peace. I remember thinking, this is what matters. Lisa
had wanted this Christmas to feel different, less noise, more meaning.
The kids were growing up and we knew that time
(18:29):
was fleeting with them. So she said, let's give something
that feels like rest, and she found it in Cozy Earth.
When everyone opened their gifts, the room got quiet in
that good way. The bamboo sheet said wasn't just another present,
it was a promise of calm. Lisa smiled and said,
a silent night stars with the right sheet, starts with
(18:51):
the right sheets. We all laughed, but the truth hit home.
Those sheets didn't just feel like feel soft, they felt
like peace opened to men's stretched nip. Bamboo pajama set
and Lisa got the women's Long Sleep set. Hayden and
Blaine slipped into theirs right after. Within minutes, we were
(19:11):
all cozied up, half talking, half dozing by the fire.
Blame mumbled the best Christmas gift ever, right before falling
asleep on the couch. He loves sleep. Lisa looked at
me and whispered, this is what I wanted. She was right.
It wasn't about the gifts, it was about the stillness.
They created. Cozy Earth somehow turned comfort into something sacred.
(19:37):
Every Cozy Earth betting product comes with one hundred nights
sleep trial and tenure warranty. You can gift confidently knowing
it's a gift that last. Whether a sheets, pajamas, or both.
Cozy Earth transforms ordinary comfort into peace. Visit cozyearth dot
com and use my exclusive forty percent coach to give
(20:00):
the gift of luxury this holiday season. And if you
happen to get a post purchase survey mentioned that you
heard about Cozy Earths from Mecos through Eternity. Because the
gifts aren't wrapped in paper, they're wrapped in warmth, peace
and love, Cozy Earth wrap the ones you love in
luxury
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