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November 24, 2025 18 mins

O’come O’come Emmanuel used by permission. License agreement available on request. Performed by Skillet.,

The conversation delves into the profound emotional landscape that envelops individuals during the holiday season, particularly those who find themselves grappling with grief. Dr. Jeffrey Skinner articulates the duality of sorrow and joy, stressing that it is entirely permissible for one to experience a sense of loss amidst the festive cheer. He draws upon biblical narratives to illustrate that even Jesus, in his humanity, bore witness to grief, as seen when he wept at Lazarus' tomb. This poignant reflection serves as a reminder that acknowledging our pain is not a sign of weakness, but rather a necessary step toward healing. As the episode unfolds, listeners are encouraged to embrace their emotions wholeheartedly, granting themselves the grace to mourn without the burden of guilt. In this spirit, Dr. Skinner outlines practical strategies for navigating the holiday season with an empty chair at the table, emphasizing the importance of ritual and remembrance as pathways to honor those we have lost.

Takeaways

  • The church should be a still small voice in the community.
  • Grief can overshadow the holiday season, making it difficult to celebrate.
  • It's important to give yourself permission to grieve during the holidays.
  • Naming the absence of a loved one can help others feel comfortable sharing their grief.
  • Creating rituals of remembrance can honor those who have passed.
  • Asking for stories about the deceased can help keep their memory alive.
  • Joy and sorrow can coexist during the holidays.
  • The message of Christmas is about hope and resurrection.
  • Advent reflects the longing and messiness of life.
  • You are not alone in your grief; God is present in your sorrow

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Marcus Aurelius said, what wedo in life echoes through eternity.
What is your life? Echoingthrough eternity. Welcome to Echoes
Through Eternity with Dr.Jeffrey Skinner. Our mission is to
inspire, engage and encourageleaders from across the globe to
plant missional churches andbe servant leaders. So join us and

(00:22):
hear the stories of servantleaders reverberating lives as God
echoes them through eternity.Brought to you by Missional Church
Planting and LeadershipDevelopment in Dynamic Church Church
Planning International.
Welcome into Echoes ThroughEternity. I AM your host, Dr. Jeffrey
D. Skinner. What is Godechoing through your life today?

(00:43):
Well, I'm just a chaplain, achurch planter, pastor, author, and
podcast host. Is that enoughtitles for you? And I'm a fellow
traveler trying to followJesus through all the beautiful and
broken places of life. This isa space where we talk about things
that matter forever, even whenthey truly hurt like crazy. Right

(01:04):
now, I'm a firm believer thatthe church needs to be present in
all spaces. It doesn't meanthat we have to be the narcissistic
neighbor demanding attention,the spoiled child who always has
to be the center of attentionin the room. In fact, sometimes simply

(01:29):
by being a still, small voiceor even just being present, we can
make a difference. I'mreminded of Dietrich Bonhoeffer when
he went to New York to a boysschool, I think it was in the Bronx,
it might have been Brooklyn,but it had a reputation and it wasn't
a good reputation. And so hewent in and the boys were living

(01:52):
up to their reputation. It wassurrounded on all sides. He was down
below talking to, you know,the head of school or something and,
or chancellor, and they wereall surrounding up up top and, and
making all kinds of noise andjeering and, and cheering and just
general, generally being, youknow, rambunctious and, and beyond

(02:15):
rambunctious, truthfully, theywere. They're being outright annoying.
And Bonhoeffer didn't raisehis voice. He didn't try to match
the volume in the room. Infact, he began to whisper. And an
amazing thing happened as hebegan to whisper. The boys got quiet

(02:35):
because they wanted to hearwhat he had to say. They were curious.
The irony is, if he'd havegone in shouting and demanding attention,
they probably would not havelistened to. But by doing the opposite
of what they expected, bybeing different in that space, he

(02:58):
became the center of the room.And I think oftentimes the church
tries to demand attention whenwe just need to be the still, small
voice, take our cues from theHoly Spirit. And so that's, that's
kind of what I try to do withthis podcast is, you know, there's
plenty of Christian podcastsout there. I generally try to think

(03:20):
of the focus on leadershipand, and specifically church planting
and, and kind of echo voicesthat, that may be quieter, truthfully,
that aren't garnering a lot ofattention and, and try to echo them
and, and in doing so, I thankyou for your listening. We've, we've
breached this week. We justbreached the top 20, I think we're

(03:42):
number 15 currently and, andreligion and spirituality and on
Apple podcast platform. So Iappreciate that that's not what this
is about necessarily. I'm nothere trying to, to be an influencer
of any type or anything likethat, but I am trying to be present
and just offer perspective andecho the voices of some who, who

(04:06):
may not otherwise be heard.That being said, I wanted to talk
about a subject that may seema little bit somber for some of you,
and that is the empty chair inthe holidays. Thanksgiving. By the
time I record thisThanksgiving, this will be the week
of Thanksgiving. This is theweek before Thanksgiving. Right now,

(04:29):
Christmas lights are alreadyblinking in the neighborhoods. For
most folks, this meansrecipes, laughter, kids losing their
minds over presents duringChristmas and. But for some of us,
the table has an empty chairthis year. And hanging a wreath on
the door can feel a littlelike pretending. It can feel, it

(04:53):
can feel fake. In fact, I havea friend who will bury his wife this
week. 50 plus years ofmarriage gone in a moment. And he
told me with his voicecracking, he says, I don't even know
how to buy a turkey when theperson who always cooked it isn't

(05:13):
here. It's the firstThanksgiving without her. It will
be the first Christmas morningwithout her slippers by the tree.
And it won't just be thisyear. It will be every year from
now on. Every year from nowon, she will be absent. It will carry
with it her absence. Now, myown story is a little older, but

(05:37):
it still echoes. Mygrandmother's birthday is right here
around Thanksgiving. 22ndNovember is her birthday and sometimes
it was on Thanksgiving Day.But my grandmother, she has some
of the best cornbread dressingon the planet and made some of the
best chicken and dumplingsI've ever had. Cracker Barrel doesn't

(05:59):
hold a candle to her chickenand dumplings. They, their, their
morsels aren't anywhere in thesame neighborhood as what my grandmother's
chicken and dumplings were. Imiss them to this day. My other grandmother
used to cook a peanut buttercake that was amazing. And I'VE not
found anybody. It was just herown invention and it died with her.

(06:22):
The recipe died with her.Those are the things that we remember
about them and. And they cansometimes help things be a little
bit easier. But when thememory is fresh, when the loss is
fresh, it still hurts a lot.And it can sometimes put a damper
on the holidays. And sometimesthey can feel like they're even more

(06:43):
alone because they don't wantto dampen everybody else's holidays.
They don't want to ruin it.Now we laughed about my grandmother.
Back to her story for aminute. Towards the end of her life,
she began to lose hereyesight. So we would joke, you know,
be careful because there's a.There's a couple of extra morsels
in the chicken and dumplingsthis year. We'd find some bones in

(07:06):
there from time to time. Imiss her stories too, you know, I
miss the stories about walkingfive miles of school uphill. Grandy
and Grandmother, they. Theydidn't have anything when they got
married. They. Their house wasa shack that was not air conditioned.
It was not heated in themiddle of a field, and they had to
hang potato sacks over thewindows just to have privacy and

(07:28):
to keep the wind and dust out.When she passed, there were a couple
of things where somebody wouldsay, this would be grandma's 89th
birthday or 87th birthdaytoday she'd be 100, or not today,
but the 22nd. She would havebeen 109 years old this year. At

(07:48):
those times, the table wouldgo quiet. Gravy got a little bit
salty those years, if you knowwhat I mean. Grief doesn't take a
holiday. Sometimes it reservesthe whole season. So how do we as
followers of Jesus, hold spacefor deep sorrow when the rest of
the world is blasting Jinglebells at full volume? How do we avoid

(08:09):
the two extremes of pretendingthe hurt isn't there or letting the
hurt swallow every bit oflight in the room? Let's start with
permission. If you are the onegrieving this year, I want you to
hear this loud and clear. Itis okay if Thanksgiving dinner tastes
a little bit like cardboard.It is okay if you cry when Silent

(08:33):
night comes on. You are notfailing at faith. You are not ruining
everybody else's holiday. Youare a human being whose heart has
been shattered. And Jesus isnot rolling his eyes at your tears.
He's the one who stood atLazarus Tomb and wept before he had

(08:53):
said a word aboutresurrection. Give yourself permission
to feel what you feel. Somemoments you may laugh. Some moments
you may need to step outsideand breathe. Both are holy for the
rest of us who will sit besidesomeone with an empty chair this
year, here are five gentlepractices I've learned walking hospital

(09:17):
halls and sitting in my ownchairs and sitting with people as
they grieve. Name the absenceout loud. Don't leave the elephant
in the corner. Early in thegathering, someone can simply say,
we all know mom isn't herethis year and that hurts. We love

(09:37):
her, we miss her, and it'sokay to talk about her. One sentence
opens the valve. It givespermission for others to grieve and
to talk and even sharememories. After that, joys and tears
can both breathe. Second thingyou can do is create a small ritual

(09:58):
of remembrance. Light acandle. Put their favorite pie on
the table, even if nobody eatsit. Hang their favorite ornament
on the tree that they alwayshung. My family still sets an extra
plate at Thanksgiving withGrandma's photo. 10 seconds of honor
that says you still belong tous. Third thing you do is ask a story,

(10:21):
not a status update. Skip thehow are you doing? And try Tell me
your favorite Thanksgivingmemory of him or what's something
she always did at Christmas?Grieving people want to talk about
the person they lost. They'reafraid we've forgotten. When we ask,

(10:41):
we hand them the microphone totheir loved one's life again. Let
joy and sorrow dance in thesame room. They're not enemies. The
same psalm says, weep withthose who weep and you turn my mourning
into dancing. Both can be trueat once. We can laugh at Uncle Joe's

(11:04):
terrible jokes. We can let thekids be loud. And when someone needs
to cry in the hallway, let'sgo with them. The kingdom is big
enough for both. Point to thedeeper story. Christmas is about
a God who saw empty chairs allover the world and refused to stay

(11:24):
distant. He moved into theneighborhood, took on skin, entered
the grief with us. The baby inthe manger is headed to a tomb, so
every empty chair will one daybe filled again. Resurrected. The
people we love are not gonefrom the story. They've just entered
the chapter we can't read yet.One more thing we can do or one more

(11:56):
thing before we pray. I've hadSkillet's new song, oh Come, oh Come,
Emmanuel, on repeat this week.I'll be honest with you. I am not
a Skillet fan. I don't dislikethem. I think they're they're most
talent. One of the mosttalented Christian bands that's currently
out there. I mean they canplay so many different instruments.

(12:18):
King and country is anotherone that's out there. But their Christmas
song, oh, Come, oh, ComeEmmanuel dropped this year, and John
Cooper kind of reimagined itas a psalm of lament. He took the
ancient hymn, dropped it intoa minor key that feels like fluorescent

(12:43):
hospital lights and slugs.Heavy guitars, slow as a heartbeat,
winding down. And, yeah, thewhole Internet, or half Internet
now the whole half theInternet lost its mind because they
added some. Some heavy guitarand heavy vocals towards the end
there. But that's theirinterpretation of. Of the song. Grief

(13:07):
is messy. Grief is hard,especially during the holidays and.
And I love theirinterpretation. I heard the groan
of a psalm written in thewaiting room because when you're
holding a hand that's goingcold, when Thanksgiving turkey is
in the oven and the funeralflowers are being arranged, Put to

(13:28):
flight can feel a little tootidy. Put to flight can seem senseless.
Loses the fight. Feels likethe uppercut landed at the cross.
But the body hasn't hit thecanvas yet. There's still hope. That's

(13:50):
where so many of us live. ThisDecember is between the empty tomb
and the final trumpet. Themusic video opens on a man alone
in a hospital room. Christmaslights are blinking through the blinds
while the machines keep time.He's waiting for Daniel, who came

(14:12):
once and promised to comeagain. If that version rubs you wrong
because it lingers in thelonging, I get it. But if you're
the one staring at the emptychair, it might be the most honest
Christmas carol you hear thisyear. Advent was never meant to be

(14:32):
tidy. It's a minor chi pleafor the middle of the mess. Oh, come,
oh come. So we light thecandle anyway. We set the plate nobody
will use. We tell the storyone more time because death has already

(14:59):
lost the fight. It just hasn'tstopped twitching yet. And the one
who beat it is on his way backto finish what he started. I don't
often pray in the middle of apodcast or at the end of a podcast.

(15:23):
It's not something you hear alot, but in the spirit of the tone
and the spirit of the theme,for this particular episode today,
I wanted to leave us with aprayer and leave you with a prayer.
And I wrote it down because Iwanted it to be well thought out.

(15:44):
I didn't want it to bespontaneous. I hope that doesn't
offend you. I'm going to keepmy eyes open during the prayer. If
you're watching on, on theYouTube, you'll see my eyes open
here and you'll see me ready.But again, I do that with all the
intent and all the, you know,with all good intentions. So let's

(16:07):
pray Father, you, know everyname that won't be called around
the table this year. You catchevery tear that falls when the carols
play. We ask Father that youtwalk into living rooms that feel
too quiet and hearts that feeltoo loud. Give us courage to name

(16:27):
the loss and grace to hold thejoy. Remind us that the light came
into the darkness not to scoldit, but to sit with it until the
morning breaks. Until we allsit together at your table with no
more empty chairs. Hold usclose in the name of the One born
in Bethlehem who is making allthings new. Amen. Friend, if this

(16:55):
is your hard holiday, you arenot alone. If you are walking beside
someone who's in it, thank youfor carrying the love of Jesus in
ways sermons never could. Ifyou're experiencing a broken Hallelujah
this season, no. That Godfixes all things in resurrection.

(17:24):
Until next time, this isechoes through eternity, reminding
you that even the deepest acheechoes into a resurrection morning.
If this episode has heldmeaning for you, if you found it
helpful, I ask that youcontinue to share it with your friends
and tell your friends andfamily about it. Post it on your

(17:44):
social media. Until next time.Grace and peace and ask yourself,
what is God going through yourlife today?
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