February 16, 2026 • 31 mins
The church is not ready for the rapid changes brought on by artificial intelligence, but that's where we come in. In this episode, Dr. Jeffery D. Skinner dives into how AI is reshaping trust, learning, and authority, flipping the script on how people seek guidance—often turning to devices before they even think of asking pastors. It's not about becoming tech whizzes; it’s about fostering discernment and forming genuine relationships in this brave new world. We’ve got to confront the reality that authority is shifting away from titles and degrees, leaning instead on trust and proximity. So, are we gearing up to guide our communities through this evolving landscape, or are we just clinging to the past? Let's figure it out together.
In the transcript I say “the head of Anthropic resigned.” That was a misspeak on my part. Safety researchers are leaving, not the CEO stepping. “senior safety researchers and staff have resigned from major AI labs, citing ethical concerns.”
Artificial intelligence is already reshaping how people learn, trust, and seek guidance. The gospel has not changed. The mission has not changed. But the environment where we disciple people has shifted fast.
In this episode Dr. Jeffery D. Skinner lays out why the church must prepare without panic, form discernment, rebuild trust through presence, and lead with steady, embodied authority in an age of intelligent machines.
Takeaways:
- The church is facing a rapid shift, and we need to prepare without freaking out about it.
- People are asking machines for answers before they look to their pastors, which is a wild shift in trust dynamics.
- Authority in the church is moving from just a title to being about real relationships and proximity to people.
- In this crazy digital age, discernment will be the name of the game, not just having access to information.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Missional Church Planting
- Leadership Development in Dynamic Church Planning International
- Matt Schumer
- Anthropic
- Elon Musk
Mentioned in this episode:
Peace in that Finds You in the Middle of Chaos
Cozyearth.com. Use Code Echo for a 40% Discount Dr. Jeffery D. Skinner shares his experience with Cozy Earth's products, highlighting their impact on his family's comfort since moving to Nashville. He discusses the benefits of their bamboo-based bedding and blankets, emphasizing their softness, temperature regulation, and luxurious feel. The episode also includes a special discount offer for listeners. Keywords Cozy Earth, bamboo bedding, temperature regulation, luxury comfort, Nashville, family warmth, discount offer, Christmas gift, home sanctuary, podcast partnership
Peace in that Finds You in the Middle of Chaos
Cozyearth.com. Use Code Echo for a 40% Discount Dr. Jeffery D. Skinner shares his experience with Cozy Earth's products, highlighting their impact on his family's comfort since moving to Nashville. He discusses the benefits of their bamboo-based...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(02:07):
Marcus Aurelius said, what wedo in life echoes through eternity.
What is your life echoingthrough eternity?
Welcome to Echoes ThroughEternity with Dr. Jeffrey Skinner.
Our mission is to inspire,engage and encourage leaders from
across the globe to plantmissional churches and be servant
leaders.
(02:28):
So join us and hear thestories of servant leaders reverberating
lives as God echoes themthrough eternity.
Brought to you by MissionalChurch Planting and Leadership Development
in Dynamic Church ChurchPlanning International.
The church is not ready, butwe can be welcome in Echoes to Eternity.
(02:49):
I'm your host, Dr. Jeffrey D. Skinner.
What is God echoing throughyour life today?
Today we're beginning a newseries that's going to span several
podcasts.
I think probably fourepisodes, maybe more.
We'll see how it evolves over time.
But regardless, I believe it'snecessary for this moment.
(03:11):
It's not trendy, it's not reactionary.
It's necessary.
I want to speak plainly today,calmly, pastorally, but also with
conviction, because we'reliving in a time of rapid change
and most churches are stillresponding as if the ground is stable
(03:33):
beneath us.
It's not unstable in the sensethat the gospel has changed.
The gospel has not changed.
The good news remains the goodnews and will always be good news.
If the gospel ceases to begood news, it is no longer gospel.
Christ has not changed.
(03:54):
The mission of the church hasnot changed.
It continues to be to multiplythe kingdom and make disciples.
Period.
Now, we can come up withfancier terms and phrases, but the
reality is, in basic terms,the mission of the church is uniform,
(04:15):
make disciples, multiply thekingdom of God.
But the environment in whichwe lead and disciple has shifted
and is shifting quickly.
I read an article recently,actually, if you're listening to
this podcast, I'm recordingthis podcast on February 11th, and
I read this article thismorning and it got my attention.
(04:39):
And in fact, it was somethingI was sensing, but it kind of solidified
what I was already thinking.
And I don't mean to say it'sconfirmation bias, because I listened
to a lot of voices onartificial intelligence and discipleship
and church leadership.
(05:00):
A lot of voices shape me, andnot just within the church planting
community.
I listened to voices, and evenin the secular community as well,
because I think that when welive in a bubble that we.
We begin to lose perspective.
And so this article waswritten by someone deeply involved
in the world of artificialintelligence, Matt Schumer.
(05:23):
And I'll post the article in the.
In the notes for you as well.
And just, just kind of an FYIcoming soon the podcast is being
a little more beginning to geta lot more popular and as a result
I've got to begin to scale andso the podcast will remain free but
(05:45):
there's going to be portions,show notes, transcripts, things like
that that will begin to bemonetized and for only subscribe
particular subscribers.
Not going to be a lot, acouple of bucks a month, probably
two, nine a month.
Still working on all that.
But just, just a heads up on that.
Again, none of this isdesigned to make money.
(06:05):
It's designed to pay for thepodcast and it's beginning to happen.
But it's not just a podcast.
It's book writing, authoring,just it is all the things that I
do in the leadership spacecost money and they were beginning
to drain my budget significantly.
And so I had to begin tomonetize some, some portions of this.
(06:29):
Not to exclude people.
I always want to, I believe infaithful sharing and look any resource
I have, feel free to shareeven if you, if you have to subscribe
to get future content, I wantthat to be freely shared.
I do that again I want to toalways be a means of grace to people.
(06:54):
But anyway.
Matt Schumer described thepace of change in that field and
the sense among those closestto it that something significant
is already underway.
That field being artificial intelligence.
That confirmed what many of ushave been sensing quietly for some
time.
We are not waiting for future disruptions.
(07:15):
We are living inside the earlystages of one.
This article again, I am.
It's a long article.
I invite you to go and readit, but it will blow your mind.
And it will.
It, it will.
I don't want it to scare youbecause I don't believe in living
in fear.
When we're living in fear, wedon't make good decisions.
(07:35):
We're in fight or flight mode.
We're using our lizard brain,as some people call it, reptilian
brain.
And as that, that just thatbasic thought.
There's no higher order thinking.
It's just how do I escape orhow do I survive?
Right.
And so but what I do want youto do is pay attention.
And one things he says is thatthere was a key shift on February
(07:58):
5th and that shift was thatartificial intelligence intelligence,
Codex 5.3, I think he says was released.
The key for artificialintelligence has always been coding.
They believe that if you couldcode it well or if it could learn
(08:19):
to code, that would be kind ofan event horizon turning point, so
to speak, a place of no return.
And so February 5th markedthat moment for him.
Lots of moving people residingin that field right now.
(08:41):
The head of Anthropic resigned.
Elon Musk, two of his keyengineers that have been with him
from the beginning, resigned.
It's all over the ethics andthe development of this artificial
intelligence.
Musk is really pushing themhard to, to continue to improve it.
Of course Musk would.
(09:01):
The thing that scares me aboutMusk is, is he doesn't operate from
a biblical worldview and, buthe does operate from a worldview
that says we need to win atall cost.
And, and I don't know that heparticularly cares for humanity in
the way that you and I do.
I'm not, I'm not trying to cuton Elon Musk.
(09:22):
I think he does a lot of good,but I don't know that he does good
purposefully or at least he'snot doing good in the interest of
all of humanity so much ashe's doing good in his own self interest
or his own interest.
I guess self interest would bea double entendre there.
(09:47):
But the bottom line is that hesays, Schumer says that within the
next five to 12 months andthen beyond that the next one to
five years every, thatprobably 50% of white collar entry
(10:12):
level jobs will be replaced by machines.
The church is not fullyprepared for what's coming, but we
can be.
This conversation is not aboutbecoming technology experts.
It's not about turning pastorsinto programmers.
It's not about chasing trends,it's about formation.
Because the deeper issue isnot whether churches will use artificial
(10:35):
intelligence.
It's going to be inevitable.
It's going to be like arguing.
I think a couple of years fromnow we will look back and if we're
still having this conversationas a church, it's going to be like
pastors standing in acommittee arguing whether or not
we should drive a horse andbuggy to church or whether or not
(10:57):
we should drive a car.
That's how irrelevant andsilly that we will sound.
So the what that means is thatour conversations as humans 50% of
the time will be interfacedwith other machines, with machines
and not humans.
(11:19):
So the deeper issue is howhuman beings will be formed in a
world where machinesincreasingly shape attention, learning
and trust.
Think about this as the earlystages of Facebook and social media
where we didn't know what wewere getting into.
They branded it as, hey, thiswill keep you connected to friends.
(11:41):
What they didn't tell you wasthe algorithm would then begin to
choose and feed youinformation and friends that only
agreed with you, whichexpanded Your bubble and created
confirmation bias to the pointthat you feel like that your perspective
is always the right perspective.
(12:03):
Pastor friend of mine BradBellamy always said, if you think
that God is always on yourside, you'd better think again.
Because the question is not,is God on my side?
The question is, are we onGod's side?
People are already askingdevices questions before they ask
(12:25):
pastors.
They are processing lifethrough systems that respond instantly
and confidently.
They are forming opinions inenvironments that's designed to keep
them engaged.
Think algorithms here, notnecessarily grounded.
We want instant responses.
We want instant pain relief.
(12:46):
And artificial intelligence isgoing to bring that.
And it will bring it.
Not necessarily from aChristian perspective, not from a
biblical perspective.
It's going to bring it.
It will hallucinate.
It will bring it fromperspectives that are shaped not
by your voice, but by themillions of voices that are media
(13:06):
and the bubbles.
And it doesn't have access toonly your bubble.
It has access to every bubble.
And the information it givesyou will be from there.
They're receiving advice fromtools that feel responsive and immediate.
That's what I was just saying,that the shift is not natural.
It will shape how peopleunderstand truth.
(13:26):
It will shape how they trust.
It will shape how they respondto authority, and it will shape how
they approach faith.
So the question for us is notwhether this affect.
Whether or not this willaffect the church.
It already is.
You may not recognize it, butit is.
The question is, how will welead people faithfully in this moment,
(13:50):
there's a growing awarenessacross many fields that we are entering
a period of acceleration.
Artificial intelligence isadvancing quickly.
Cultural trust is fragile.
Political division is shapinghow people see one another and how
they process information.
None of this sits outside the church.
It walks into our sanctuarieseach week.
(14:12):
It sits in our pews.
It joins our small groups.
It shows up in the questionspeople ask and the assumptions they
carry.
Many leaders will think ofartificial intelligence as a tool.
Helpful, but optional,something we will decide to use or
not use.
But what we are witnessing isa deeper shift.
(14:33):
We are watching a change inhow people learn, how they seek guidance,
and how they decide to trust.
Lisa and I, my wife, havetalked about this at length.
And that is how artificialintelligence is going to shape education.
Because I think this willdismantle our current educational
(14:56):
system.
When you have access toinstantaneous tool that can.
And not just a tool, as we'vetalked, but just embedded that can
solve complex equations and doengineering math for you on the spot.
Why do you need an engineering degree?
(15:18):
So the role of teachers isgoing to be changing like pastors.
And it's going to be able toshape thought and help people discern,
which is really going to be amajor portion of how we disciple.
In fact, I'm in the process ofcreating an entire curriculum, three
course, three session, threesession curriculum for pastors on,
(15:41):
on helping discernment,discipleship of discernment.
In other words, helping people learn.
Because artificialintelligence, discernment is going
to be the key tool, the key,not even tool, the key component
(16:02):
of our spiritual journey thatwe will need in an age of artificial
intelligence that is almost indistinguishable.
And the voices you hear, theywill be able to mimic the voice of
your pastor, voice of your parents.
And so discernment's going tobe key.
And it will be like the voiceof the serpent in the garden where
(16:27):
it sounds like it's logicalsense, but it's not what God wills
for us.
The church can afford to panic.
I told you earlier, I don'twant us living in fear.
Panic leads to reaction andfear driven decisions.
The church cannot afford denial.
(16:48):
Denial leads to drift and irrelevance.
We need clarity.
We need formation, notinformation formation again with
AI information.
We thought Google gave us theLibrary of Alexandria at our fingertips.
No, the problem with Googlewas finding the information.
(17:11):
With AI you can find anyinformation you want.
The key is how will thatinformation be shaped and for us
as a church is how will we usethat information and help our people
discern and shape thatinformation for formational purposes.
For Jesus, for the church'smission, for the Kingdom of God.
(17:36):
We need leadership that isstadium rooted.
Our authority is shifting.
In the past, pastoralauthority often flowed from position,
training and experience.
Theological degrees were ofutmost importance.
Even beyond that, learningsocial skills and then just simply
(17:59):
being the pastor held aposition of authority.
Those things still matter, butthey are not enough on their own.
Today, authority flows fromtrust and proximity.
I talk about this in, in mybook Reachable seven Keys to Loving,
Leading and Mentoring thechurch of the Next Generation.
(18:22):
Trust and proximity were key.
A key to reaching the churchof the next generation, Gen Z and
even millennials and Gen X. Imean today because we're all being
shaped by the same algorithms.
People trust voices they know.
They trust leaders who are present.
(18:45):
So this is why proximitybecomes important, is because the
better they know, you leaderswill no longer have the privilege,
especially pastoral leaders.
And I think this is where achurch plant really can thrive is
because the pastor is accessible.
And being a pastor of a churchplant requires absolute authenticity,
(19:09):
absolute transparency.
No hidden corners of ourhearts, no hidden gems in our lives.
We have to be fullytransparent as leaders.
And to do that, we have to be present.
We have to invite people.
The age of the pastor who sataloof in the pulpit and interacted
(19:31):
from a distance is over.
Artificial intelligence willnecessitate us being and sharing
spaces with our people.
And that's what I argue in thebook I was talking about.
You can find it on Amazon.comyou can even listen to the audiobook
(19:52):
is In My Voice.
But leaders, I mean,parishioners are going to trust.
People are going to trustleaders who are accountable as well.
I talked about this in thelast episode.
If the church relies only onpositional authority, it will struggle.
If it builds relationalauthority grounded in presence and
integrity, it will endure.
(20:14):
The leaders who will servewell in the next decade are those
who are known, not just seenon a platform, but known in real
life, known in conversation,known in community.
Your people would know your voice.
Like God says, my people knowmy voice.
It's going to be the same wayfor the pastor will be known in the
(20:38):
community, not just within achurch, but if we want to.
If we don't want to build ourchurch as a bubble, as an anomaly
within the community, but tobe invaluable within that community,
we.
We've got to be known in that community.
And that might require somepastors to be bivocational again.
Church planters are almostalways bivocational.
(20:59):
They're known for accountability.
Authority that is embodiedwill endure.
Authority that is distant will weaken.
Let me put this in pastoral terms.
People are not primarilyasking who has a title.
They are asking who do I trust?
They are asking who knows me?
They are asking who is presentin my life.
(21:20):
That means leadership mustbecome more relational, not less,
More accountable, not less.
More transparent, not less.
Discernment must be formed.
The next decade will notprimarily be a battle over information.
It will be a battle over discernment.
People today encounter moreinformation than any generation before
(21:42):
them.
Some of it is accurate.
Some of it is misleading.
Much of it is persuasive.
As artificial intelligencebecomes more capable, the line between
what is real and what ismanipulated will become harder to
see.
If the people know your voice,they will not be deceived.
(22:04):
The church must teachdiscernment, not suspicion, not cynicism.
Discernment.
I'll confess, I probablycreated more cynicism and suspicion
among our children when I wastrying to teach discernment.
And that's a failure on mypart of the parent.
And again, I'm just tellingyou that this is a reality that I
(22:27):
have lived.
I'm trying and listening to alot of voices out there to learn
how to form discernment inpeople and not just create suspicion
or even cynicism, which isrampant with our culture today.
And that's a side effect ofnot being able to trust what you
(22:50):
see.
Discernment is wisdom shapedby scripture, prayer and community.
It is the ability to slowdown, to test what we hear, again
biblical, and to respond withtruth and love.
Churches must teach people toverify before they share, to pray
(23:12):
before they react, to testeverything in light of Christ.
If we do not form discernment,something else will form our people.
This is not abstract, this isdaily life.
Everyday people scroll throughinformation, headlines, videos and
opinions.
They absorb messages aboutidentity, truth, and even belonging.
(23:39):
If the church is notintentionally forming discernment,
people will be formed bywhatever reaches them most consistently.
That's why presence matters.
Technology connects peoplequickly, but often leaves them isolated.
Many people live in constantdigital interaction with limited
(24:00):
face to face relationships.
The church has an opportunityto become one of the few places where
people are known by name and story.
This requires intention,shared bills, real conversation,
prayer that happens in thesame room, testimony that allows
people to be seen and heard.
When experience, when peopleexperience real presence, trust grows.
(24:27):
When trust grows, discipleship deepens.
We are not building audiences,we are forming communities.
Holiness must be heard as healing.
Many people today hear morallanguage as condemnation.
If holiness sounds likecontrol, it will be resisted.
(24:47):
If holiness sounds likerestoration, it will be received.
I had this conversation with apastor friend of mine this morning.
Judgment is seen as as punitive.
But God's judgment is not punitive.
God's judgment is salvific.
It is always aimed at repentance.
And repentance is aimed atgiving life.
(25:12):
And I don't mean initial life,I mean more life.
Abundant life.
That's what we mean by abundant.
Life is a life that isthriving despite the realities of
which we exist.
Repentance is invitation, is acall to life.
God's judgment sets thingsright, it restores, it heals.
(25:36):
Churches that communicateholiness as healing help people move
towards transformation.
Leaders must speak with truthclearly and with mercy.
They must model repentance themselves.
When correction flows fromlove, it leads to growth rather than
hiding something.
I've learned about myself, Icontinue to learn things about myself
(25:59):
all the time.
I'm almost 60 years old and Ihave never received correction well.
And I'm trying to learn to do that.
And not take everything personal.
When somebody corrects me tolearn that they're not correcting
me.
And part of it just has to dowith some wounds I have.
(26:21):
I'm learning to work through those.
But we have to learn thatcorrection flows from love.
That leads to growth ratherthan hiding.
Leadership must be resilient.
The coming years will test leaders.
Cultural tension, rapid changeand constant information create fatigue.
Isolation will weaken, meaningleaders more than the opposition
(26:43):
will.
No leader should stand alone.
Shared leadership and honestrelationships are essential.
Pastors need people who canspeak truth into their lives.
They need rhythms of rest.
They need structures thatsustain calling.
We need to prepare and not panic.
Preparing the church for thenext decade does not mean becoming
(27:07):
more technologically impressive.
It means becoming more deeply formed.
It means cultivatingcommunities marked by trust, discernment,
presence, and holy love.
The church that will remainsteady in a changing world will not
necessarily be the loudest.
It will be the church thatforms people who know how to live
(27:30):
in the truth, love theirneighbors, and remain rooted in Christ.
We are not competing with machines.
We are forming disciples.
And let me just, let me leaveyou with this as well.
This is not an invitation forthe church to draw inward and completely
(27:50):
abandon the own line of space.
I don't believe in seedingground the enemy in any way.
So what this becomes is a duelof invention.
Invitation is an invitationfor us to be present in our communities
and to have more and more faceto face conversations.
But in order to do that, wemust go out into those digital spaces
(28:16):
and invite people into thatface to face we have to get.
And they'll be hungry for thatbecause their conversations, it will
seem awkward for many in thebeginning because they're so used
to interacting with a machine.
But the church will be holy.
We will be set apart becausewe're inviting people that face to
(28:39):
face conversation and not justan algorithmic discussion, right?
And so let me leave you with a question.
Are you preparing people forthe world that is coming or the world
that is fading?
In the next episode, we'lltalk about authority after the algorithm
and what it means to lead whentrust is shipping shifting, not shipping.
(29:03):
It may be shipping, it'sshipping responsibility, shifting
responsibility.
But until then, pay attention,stay present, lead faithfully.
And finally, I'll leave youwith the same question I always leave
you with after every episode.
And that is what is Godechoing through your life today?
If you enjoyed this, pleaselike and subscribe.
Marcus Aurelius said, what wedo in life echoes through eternity.
What is your life echoingthrough eternity?
Welcome to Echoes ThroughEternity with Dr. Jeffrey Skinner.
Our mission is to inspire,engage and encourage leaders from
across the globe to plantmissional churches and be servant
leaders.
(02:28):
So join us and hear thestories of servant leaders reverberating
lives as God echoes themthrough eternity.
Brought to you by MissionalChurch Planting and Leadership Development
in Dynamic Church ChurchPlanning International.
The church is not ready, butwe can be welcome in Echoes to Eternity.
(02:49):
I'm your host, Dr. Jeffrey D. Skinner.
What is God echoing throughyour life today?
Today we're beginning a newseries that's going to span several
podcasts.
I think probably fourepisodes, maybe more.
We'll see how it evolves over time.
But regardless, I believe it'snecessary for this moment.
(03:11):
It's not trendy, it's not reactionary.
It's necessary.
I want to speak plainly today,calmly, pastorally, but also with
conviction, because we'reliving in a time of rapid change
and most churches are stillresponding as if the ground is stable
(03:33):
beneath us.
It's not unstable in the sensethat the gospel has changed.
The gospel has not changed.
The good news remains the goodnews and will always be good news.
If the gospel ceases to begood news, it is no longer gospel.
Christ has not changed.
(03:54):
The mission of the church hasnot changed.
It continues to be to multiplythe kingdom and make disciples.
Period.
Now, we can come up withfancier terms and phrases, but the
reality is, in basic terms,the mission of the church is uniform,
(04:15):
make disciples, multiply thekingdom of God.
But the environment in whichwe lead and disciple has shifted
and is shifting quickly.
I read an article recently,actually, if you're listening to
this podcast, I'm recordingthis podcast on February 11th, and
I read this article thismorning and it got my attention.
(04:39):
And in fact, it was somethingI was sensing, but it kind of solidified
what I was already thinking.
And I don't mean to say it'sconfirmation bias, because I listened
to a lot of voices onartificial intelligence and discipleship
and church leadership.
(05:00):
A lot of voices shape me, andnot just within the church planting
community.
I listened to voices, and evenin the secular community as well,
because I think that when welive in a bubble that we.
We begin to lose perspective.
And so this article waswritten by someone deeply involved
in the world of artificialintelligence, Matt Schumer.
(05:23):
And I'll post the article in the.
In the notes for you as well.
And just, just kind of an FYIcoming soon the podcast is being
a little more beginning to geta lot more popular and as a result
I've got to begin to scale andso the podcast will remain free but
(05:45):
there's going to be portions,show notes, transcripts, things like
that that will begin to bemonetized and for only subscribe
particular subscribers.
Not going to be a lot, acouple of bucks a month, probably
two, nine a month.
Still working on all that.
But just, just a heads up on that.
Again, none of this isdesigned to make money.
(06:05):
It's designed to pay for thepodcast and it's beginning to happen.
But it's not just a podcast.
It's book writing, authoring,just it is all the things that I
do in the leadership spacecost money and they were beginning
to drain my budget significantly.
And so I had to begin tomonetize some, some portions of this.
(06:29):
Not to exclude people.
I always want to, I believe infaithful sharing and look any resource
I have, feel free to shareeven if you, if you have to subscribe
to get future content, I wantthat to be freely shared.
I do that again I want to toalways be a means of grace to people.
(06:54):
But anyway.
Matt Schumer described thepace of change in that field and
the sense among those closestto it that something significant
is already underway.
That field being artificial intelligence.
That confirmed what many of ushave been sensing quietly for some
time.
We are not waiting for future disruptions.
(07:15):
We are living inside the earlystages of one.
This article again, I am.
It's a long article.
I invite you to go and readit, but it will blow your mind.
And it will.
It, it will.
I don't want it to scare youbecause I don't believe in living
in fear.
When we're living in fear, wedon't make good decisions.
(07:35):
We're in fight or flight mode.
We're using our lizard brain,as some people call it, reptilian
brain.
And as that, that just thatbasic thought.
There's no higher order thinking.
It's just how do I escape orhow do I survive?
Right.
And so but what I do want youto do is pay attention.
And one things he says is thatthere was a key shift on February
(07:58):
5th and that shift was thatartificial intelligence intelligence,
Codex 5.3, I think he says was released.
The key for artificialintelligence has always been coding.
They believe that if you couldcode it well or if it could learn
(08:19):
to code, that would be kind ofan event horizon turning point, so
to speak, a place of no return.
And so February 5th markedthat moment for him.
Lots of moving people residingin that field right now.
(08:41):
The head of Anthropic resigned.
Elon Musk, two of his keyengineers that have been with him
from the beginning, resigned.
It's all over the ethics andthe development of this artificial
intelligence.
Musk is really pushing themhard to, to continue to improve it.
Of course Musk would.
(09:01):
The thing that scares me aboutMusk is, is he doesn't operate from
a biblical worldview and, buthe does operate from a worldview
that says we need to win atall cost.
And, and I don't know that heparticularly cares for humanity in
the way that you and I do.
I'm not, I'm not trying to cuton Elon Musk.
(09:22):
I think he does a lot of good,but I don't know that he does good
purposefully or at least he'snot doing good in the interest of
all of humanity so much ashe's doing good in his own self interest
or his own interest.
I guess self interest would bea double entendre there.
(09:47):
But the bottom line is that hesays, Schumer says that within the
next five to 12 months andthen beyond that the next one to
five years every, thatprobably 50% of white collar entry
(10:12):
level jobs will be replaced by machines.
The church is not fullyprepared for what's coming, but we
can be.
This conversation is not aboutbecoming technology experts.
It's not about turning pastorsinto programmers.
It's not about chasing trends,it's about formation.
Because the deeper issue isnot whether churches will use artificial
(10:35):
intelligence.
It's going to be inevitable.
It's going to be like arguing.
I think a couple of years fromnow we will look back and if we're
still having this conversationas a church, it's going to be like
pastors standing in acommittee arguing whether or not
we should drive a horse andbuggy to church or whether or not
(10:57):
we should drive a car.
That's how irrelevant andsilly that we will sound.
So the what that means is thatour conversations as humans 50% of
the time will be interfacedwith other machines, with machines
and not humans.
(11:19):
So the deeper issue is howhuman beings will be formed in a
world where machinesincreasingly shape attention, learning
and trust.
Think about this as the earlystages of Facebook and social media
where we didn't know what wewere getting into.
They branded it as, hey, thiswill keep you connected to friends.
(11:41):
What they didn't tell you wasthe algorithm would then begin to
choose and feed youinformation and friends that only
agreed with you, whichexpanded Your bubble and created
confirmation bias to the pointthat you feel like that your perspective
is always the right perspective.
(12:03):
Pastor friend of mine BradBellamy always said, if you think
that God is always on yourside, you'd better think again.
Because the question is not,is God on my side?
The question is, are we onGod's side?
People are already askingdevices questions before they ask
(12:25):
pastors.
They are processing lifethrough systems that respond instantly
and confidently.
They are forming opinions inenvironments that's designed to keep
them engaged.
Think algorithms here, notnecessarily grounded.
We want instant responses.
We want instant pain relief.
(12:46):
And artificial intelligence isgoing to bring that.
And it will bring it.
Not necessarily from aChristian perspective, not from a
biblical perspective.
It's going to bring it.
It will hallucinate.
It will bring it fromperspectives that are shaped not
by your voice, but by themillions of voices that are media
(13:06):
and the bubbles.
And it doesn't have access toonly your bubble.
It has access to every bubble.
And the information it givesyou will be from there.
They're receiving advice fromtools that feel responsive and immediate.
That's what I was just saying,that the shift is not natural.
It will shape how peopleunderstand truth.
(13:26):
It will shape how they trust.
It will shape how they respondto authority, and it will shape how
they approach faith.
So the question for us is notwhether this affect.
Whether or not this willaffect the church.
It already is.
You may not recognize it, butit is.
The question is, how will welead people faithfully in this moment,
(13:50):
there's a growing awarenessacross many fields that we are entering
a period of acceleration.
Artificial intelligence isadvancing quickly.
Cultural trust is fragile.
Political division is shapinghow people see one another and how
they process information.
None of this sits outside the church.
It walks into our sanctuarieseach week.
(14:12):
It sits in our pews.
It joins our small groups.
It shows up in the questionspeople ask and the assumptions they
carry.
Many leaders will think ofartificial intelligence as a tool.
Helpful, but optional,something we will decide to use or
not use.
But what we are witnessing isa deeper shift.
(14:33):
We are watching a change inhow people learn, how they seek guidance,
and how they decide to trust.
Lisa and I, my wife, havetalked about this at length.
And that is how artificialintelligence is going to shape education.
Because I think this willdismantle our current educational
(14:56):
system.
When you have access toinstantaneous tool that can.
And not just a tool, as we'vetalked, but just embedded that can
solve complex equations and doengineering math for you on the spot.
Why do you need an engineering degree?
(15:18):
So the role of teachers isgoing to be changing like pastors.
And it's going to be able toshape thought and help people discern,
which is really going to be amajor portion of how we disciple.
In fact, I'm in the process ofcreating an entire curriculum, three
course, three session, threesession curriculum for pastors on,
(15:41):
on helping discernment,discipleship of discernment.
In other words, helping people learn.
Because artificialintelligence, discernment is going
to be the key tool, the key,not even tool, the key component
(16:02):
of our spiritual journey thatwe will need in an age of artificial
intelligence that is almost indistinguishable.
And the voices you hear, theywill be able to mimic the voice of
your pastor, voice of your parents.
And so discernment's going tobe key.
And it will be like the voiceof the serpent in the garden where
(16:27):
it sounds like it's logicalsense, but it's not what God wills
for us.
The church can afford to panic.
I told you earlier, I don'twant us living in fear.
Panic leads to reaction andfear driven decisions.
The church cannot afford denial.
(16:48):
Denial leads to drift and irrelevance.
We need clarity.
We need formation, notinformation formation again with
AI information.
We thought Google gave us theLibrary of Alexandria at our fingertips.
No, the problem with Googlewas finding the information.
(17:11):
With AI you can find anyinformation you want.
The key is how will thatinformation be shaped and for us
as a church is how will we usethat information and help our people
discern and shape thatinformation for formational purposes.
For Jesus, for the church'smission, for the Kingdom of God.
(17:36):
We need leadership that isstadium rooted.
Our authority is shifting.
In the past, pastoralauthority often flowed from position,
training and experience.
Theological degrees were ofutmost importance.
Even beyond that, learningsocial skills and then just simply
(17:59):
being the pastor held aposition of authority.
Those things still matter, butthey are not enough on their own.
Today, authority flows fromtrust and proximity.
I talk about this in, in mybook Reachable seven Keys to Loving,
Leading and Mentoring thechurch of the Next Generation.
(18:22):
Trust and proximity were key.
A key to reaching the churchof the next generation, Gen Z and
even millennials and Gen X. Imean today because we're all being
shaped by the same algorithms.
People trust voices they know.
They trust leaders who are present.
(18:45):
So this is why proximitybecomes important, is because the
better they know, you leaderswill no longer have the privilege,
especially pastoral leaders.
And I think this is where achurch plant really can thrive is
because the pastor is accessible.
And being a pastor of a churchplant requires absolute authenticity,
(19:09):
absolute transparency.
No hidden corners of ourhearts, no hidden gems in our lives.
We have to be fullytransparent as leaders.
And to do that, we have to be present.
We have to invite people.
The age of the pastor who sataloof in the pulpit and interacted
(19:31):
from a distance is over.
Artificial intelligence willnecessitate us being and sharing
spaces with our people.
And that's what I argue in thebook I was talking about.
You can find it on Amazon.comyou can even listen to the audiobook
(19:52):
is In My Voice.
But leaders, I mean,parishioners are going to trust.
People are going to trustleaders who are accountable as well.
I talked about this in thelast episode.
If the church relies only onpositional authority, it will struggle.
If it builds relationalauthority grounded in presence and
integrity, it will endure.
(20:14):
The leaders who will servewell in the next decade are those
who are known, not just seenon a platform, but known in real
life, known in conversation,known in community.
Your people would know your voice.
Like God says, my people knowmy voice.
It's going to be the same wayfor the pastor will be known in the
(20:38):
community, not just within achurch, but if we want to.
If we don't want to build ourchurch as a bubble, as an anomaly
within the community, but tobe invaluable within that community,
we.
We've got to be known in that community.
And that might require somepastors to be bivocational again.
Church planters are almostalways bivocational.
(20:59):
They're known for accountability.
Authority that is embodiedwill endure.
Authority that is distant will weaken.
Let me put this in pastoral terms.
People are not primarilyasking who has a title.
They are asking who do I trust?
They are asking who knows me?
They are asking who is presentin my life.
(21:20):
That means leadership mustbecome more relational, not less,
More accountable, not less.
More transparent, not less.
Discernment must be formed.
The next decade will notprimarily be a battle over information.
It will be a battle over discernment.
People today encounter moreinformation than any generation before
(21:42):
them.
Some of it is accurate.
Some of it is misleading.
Much of it is persuasive.
As artificial intelligencebecomes more capable, the line between
what is real and what ismanipulated will become harder to
see.
If the people know your voice,they will not be deceived.
(22:04):
The church must teachdiscernment, not suspicion, not cynicism.
Discernment.
I'll confess, I probablycreated more cynicism and suspicion
among our children when I wastrying to teach discernment.
And that's a failure on mypart of the parent.
And again, I'm just tellingyou that this is a reality that I
(22:27):
have lived.
I'm trying and listening to alot of voices out there to learn
how to form discernment inpeople and not just create suspicion
or even cynicism, which isrampant with our culture today.
And that's a side effect ofnot being able to trust what you
(22:50):
see.
Discernment is wisdom shapedby scripture, prayer and community.
It is the ability to slowdown, to test what we hear, again
biblical, and to respond withtruth and love.
Churches must teach people toverify before they share, to pray
(23:12):
before they react, to testeverything in light of Christ.
If we do not form discernment,something else will form our people.
This is not abstract, this isdaily life.
Everyday people scroll throughinformation, headlines, videos and
opinions.
They absorb messages aboutidentity, truth, and even belonging.
(23:39):
If the church is notintentionally forming discernment,
people will be formed bywhatever reaches them most consistently.
That's why presence matters.
Technology connects peoplequickly, but often leaves them isolated.
Many people live in constantdigital interaction with limited
(24:00):
face to face relationships.
The church has an opportunityto become one of the few places where
people are known by name and story.
This requires intention,shared bills, real conversation,
prayer that happens in thesame room, testimony that allows
people to be seen and heard.
When experience, when peopleexperience real presence, trust grows.
(24:27):
When trust grows, discipleship deepens.
We are not building audiences,we are forming communities.
Holiness must be heard as healing.
Many people today hear morallanguage as condemnation.
If holiness sounds likecontrol, it will be resisted.
(24:47):
If holiness sounds likerestoration, it will be received.
I had this conversation with apastor friend of mine this morning.
Judgment is seen as as punitive.
But God's judgment is not punitive.
God's judgment is salvific.
It is always aimed at repentance.
And repentance is aimed atgiving life.
(25:12):
And I don't mean initial life,I mean more life.
Abundant life.
That's what we mean by abundant.
Life is a life that isthriving despite the realities of
which we exist.
Repentance is invitation, is acall to life.
God's judgment sets thingsright, it restores, it heals.
(25:36):
Churches that communicateholiness as healing help people move
towards transformation.
Leaders must speak with truthclearly and with mercy.
They must model repentance themselves.
When correction flows fromlove, it leads to growth rather than
hiding something.
I've learned about myself, Icontinue to learn things about myself
(25:59):
all the time.
I'm almost 60 years old and Ihave never received correction well.
And I'm trying to learn to do that.
And not take everything personal.
When somebody corrects me tolearn that they're not correcting
me.
And part of it just has to dowith some wounds I have.
(26:21):
I'm learning to work through those.
But we have to learn thatcorrection flows from love.
That leads to growth ratherthan hiding.
Leadership must be resilient.
The coming years will test leaders.
Cultural tension, rapid changeand constant information create fatigue.
Isolation will weaken, meaningleaders more than the opposition
(26:43):
will.
No leader should stand alone.
Shared leadership and honestrelationships are essential.
Pastors need people who canspeak truth into their lives.
They need rhythms of rest.
They need structures thatsustain calling.
We need to prepare and not panic.
Preparing the church for thenext decade does not mean becoming
(27:07):
more technologically impressive.
It means becoming more deeply formed.
It means cultivatingcommunities marked by trust, discernment,
presence, and holy love.
The church that will remainsteady in a changing world will not
necessarily be the loudest.
It will be the church thatforms people who know how to live
(27:30):
in the truth, love theirneighbors, and remain rooted in Christ.
We are not competing with machines.
We are forming disciples.
And let me just, let me leaveyou with this as well.
This is not an invitation forthe church to draw inward and completely
(27:50):
abandon the own line of space.
I don't believe in seedingground the enemy in any way.
So what this becomes is a duelof invention.
Invitation is an invitationfor us to be present in our communities
and to have more and more faceto face conversations.
But in order to do that, wemust go out into those digital spaces
(28:16):
and invite people into thatface to face we have to get.
And they'll be hungry for thatbecause their conversations, it will
seem awkward for many in thebeginning because they're so used
to interacting with a machine.
But the church will be holy.
We will be set apart becausewe're inviting people that face to
(28:39):
face conversation and not justan algorithmic discussion, right?
And so let me leave you with a question.
Are you preparing people forthe world that is coming or the world
that is fading?
In the next episode, we'lltalk about authority after the algorithm
and what it means to lead whentrust is shipping shifting, not shipping.
(29:03):
It may be shipping, it'sshipping responsibility, shifting
responsibility.
But until then, pay attention,stay present, lead faithfully.
And finally, I'll leave youwith the same question I always leave
you with after every episode.
And that is what is Godechoing through your life today?
If you enjoyed this, pleaselike and subscribe.
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