May 24, 2021 • 29 mins
Research suggests that about 5% of the population has had a Near Death Experience (NDE). Experiencers often show a marked change afterward: they become more open and caring. In this episode, Edythe talks with her guest, Ilene Thorman, about how her NDE launched a career in hospice and end-of-life care.
This series features interviews with people who have overcome significant difficulties by using the concepts of emotional intelligence.
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This series features interviews with people who have overcome significant difficulties by using the concepts of emotional intelligence.
---Connect with us!
https://facebook.com/eqatwork
https://instagram.com/eqatwork1
https://twitter.com/eqatwork1
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/c/ATopCareer
Web Site
https://eqatwork.net
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
If you have to give forgiveness or ask for forgiveness
at whatever age, take care of that now, because you
don't know if you're gonna be able to do that tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Today's topic is one that is often considered taboo, yet
it's one of the few universal life experiences, and that
is death. This episode will shad a figurative weight on
things we all need to be aware of as we
prepare ourselves and their loved ones for that final journey.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Hi, folks, I'm your host, Edith Richards, and you may
know me from my podcast series Myers Briggs Question Corner
or my website at top career dot com. I've spent
the last twenty years of my career helped people get
smart about their careers, and I've found that lots of
smart people aren't successful. Why is that. I'm convinced it's
(01:09):
due to emotional intelligence. In e Q at work, I'm
bringing you inspiring people and messages to help you get
smart about your emotions. Any close encounter with death reminds
(01:35):
us of the fragility of life, a fact my guest
today knows all too well. Eileen Thorman had a near
death experience herself. For many people who have had NDEs
or near death experiences, the event fades and life eventually
returns to normal. Some people, like Eileen, use the experience
to reorder their priorities. In Eileen's case, her experience with
(01:58):
death was one factor in becoming an advocate for hospice care,
which is focused on providing comfort and dignity, emotional support,
as well as resources and advice for caregivers. Eileen, Welcome
to EQ at work. It's really a pleasure to have
you here today to talk about what is a very
(02:19):
difficult topic for many of us.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Thank you for having me Edith.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
So, you've been working in the healthcare field for a
number of years, particularly in hospice, and I know that's
your passion, and your near death experience was one factor
that helped you to define that passion. So I'd love
to just dive right in to hear about this experience.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So about twenty three years ago, I became very ill
and I was put into a medically induced coma for
five weeks. They did not anticipate me to survive. I'm
also a Type one diabetic, which complicated the true treatment,
and what I had was septic shock. So the doctor's
(03:04):
goal was to get the bacteria out of my system.
And in this coma for five weeks, I lost a
lot of weight. I did survive, obviously, and when I
came out, I had to go through a lot of therapy,
cognitive therapy, speech therapy, physical therapy. I could not walk,
(03:25):
I couldn't talk. It was very strange to wake up
out of a coma and not being able to do
the things that you take for granted.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
I can't imagine what that experience must have been like. Cognitively,
where were you at that time? What was it like?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
So I remember being in a fog. I remember this
kind of being out of it. I didn't really know
the extent of it until I was transferred to inpatient therapy.
I was a neuropsychologist. I worked with him for many
months and they would show me a card with say,
(04:06):
a bird on it, and they would ask me, what
is on this card? I didn't know at the time.
I didn't realize that I should have known that, and
I didn't know it. So that was the initial assessment,
that part of it that they gave me and to
determine what therapy I needed. At the time, I didn't
really think about it. I just did what I had
(04:29):
to do, you know, the physical therapy, all the many exercises.
I have two three inch binders of my exercises that
I had to do. Cognitively, sometimes I go through those again.
Because our brains can retrain themselves. I guess it's the
(04:50):
nerves or the I'm not medically acknowledgeable in that per se,
but it just retrained itself to do things so I
could function like everybody else.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
And this was twenty years ago. Obviously, you've you know,
quote unquote recovered from that and your life's moved on.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, I've been able to work around any challenges I
may have. It's been so long now that I don't
see any of the challenges. I think I've developed coping
skills or strategies to work around it. I think everybody
has the moments where they're looking for a word and
they can't come up with it. So I don't feel
(05:30):
too out of the normal when things like that happen.
I just work with it.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yeah, that's good to hear. I want to just backtrack
just a minute here, because I think when people are
hearing a near death experience or having been in a
coma even a medically induced coma for a certain amount
of time, we naturally want to ask, as I did, well,
what do you remember about the near death experience?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So I don't have any recall of anything during my coma.
I didn't see anything. I do remember at the very end,
when they were weaning me off of the medication to
come to I remember being extremely thirsty. I was riding
in the back of a pickup truck to an orange
(06:16):
juice factory. I was guzzling all this orange juice. The
people who were driving, which I didn't recognize, left and
I got out of the truck. There were all these
boxes on the beach. I was in Florida at the time,
popped up by a stick. So I went in a box.
The guy closed the box and then opened it, and
(06:40):
I remember, we've been for you. So I'm not quite
sure what all that means, but I remember it like
it was yesterday.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
That's what I was going to say. I'm like, wow,
that's a really vivid I mean, I get as a green.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Right, yeah, I guess I'm not really sure what it was.
Speaker 5 (06:57):
It's funny that you can remember that said detail all
these years later, right, Yeah, yeah, it is well, I'm
really pleased to hear that you came out of that
so well and you're pretty much back to your normal self.
But that experience, it sounds like, was a catalyst or
a defining moment for some of the work that you're
(07:19):
doing now.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yes, I would agree with that because having a near
death experience, and there's all kinds of experiences, but in
my case, one day I was fine, the next day
I'm in the ambulance, go into the emergency room, and
then I'm in ICU for five weeks. I was in
the hospital for three months total, from beginning to end.
(07:43):
So you can't count on tomorrow. And I've learned to
appreciate each day, to appreciate people for who they are,
meeting them where they're at, instead of expecting them to
do what I want or see things how I want,
all kinds of different outlooks. That's changed in my life.
(08:04):
I think I've always been that way, But knowing that
you're not promised tomorrow is to have a little more patience,
to be more thoughtful, empathetic, to understand what people go
through medically at different times in their life.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Yeah, so it sounds like it's helped you to be
more empathetic.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, more empathetic, having an understanding. I would agree with
that I gained most of my death experience when I
got my first job in hospice, which I feel that
my near death experience has led me towards hospice work
and I believe God had a purpose for me to
(08:49):
help others in this area.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
So how long have you been working in hospice care?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
A little over five years. I started out as a
hospice volunteer your coordinator. Currently I'm a health information manager
with a hospice provider, and I've just always had since
then a passion for the elderly, trying to give them
distractions or visiting them or currently I'm making over one
(09:18):
hundred Valentine Day cards to give to the senior citizen
at facilities for Valentine's Day.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
That's excellent, and it's so refreshing to hear this because
it's such needed work. It's just a field that we
don't hear about a lot of people going into, and
it's so needed because it's something we're all going to
face someday and it's something we're most likely going to
have to face with our loved ones and it can
(09:46):
be overwhelming, I imagine, especially for well for the patient themselves,
but also for the caregivers.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yes, that's something I noticed once I got into working
and how a lot of times there's a level of
dysfunction that occurs within a family because they're afraid, they're scared,
they don't understand the death process. And to be frank,
we're all going to die. And my passion has become
(10:15):
to educate people on how to plan their last journey
because it's going to happen, and it can be the
greatest gift you can give to your loved one to
have everything planned out and things in place so it
can become a beautiful experience when your love one pass
And I experience that personally with my dad.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Oh okay, are you able to talk about that a
little bit? Sure?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So when I first got my job with hospice, I
was very close to my dad for like two peas
in a pod. I was living in Virginia, he lived
in Iowa. I get this job and for three years
I'm telling him everything I'm learning about hospice because I
knew nothing about hospice. So three years later, it was
(11:03):
his last journey. He was given a choice. In addition
to his dialysis three times a week, he also was
going to have to go in twice a week to
get his lungs tapped. And my dad interrupted the doctor,
which is not like my dad. He was a very
kind man. He would never interrupt anybody, and he just
(11:24):
cut the doctor off and said, no, I want to
go on hospice. And that's kind of when my light
bulb went on on why I got my hospice volunteer
job three years ago. I was educating my dad, not
knowing I was doing that, so when it came to
his time, he wasn't afraid. He didn't hear all the
(11:46):
false myths that people say about hospice, and his passing
was really a beautiful experience for him as well as
our family.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Wow, what a gift you were able to give him.
And it's just interesting what you say that at the
time you really didn't even realize what you were doing
or that it was a gift, but now looking back,
it surely was.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, And I think that's where I've gotten my passion
to start educating people. My hope is to someday give
presentations to groups, whether it be it a church or
a civic group or you know, employer developing a blog
with resources because there's wills into life information advanced directives.
(12:33):
What do you want to wear in your casket? I
remember when my mom passed away. She passed away a
lot sooner or much too early, and it was very
traumatic trying to decide, well, what is mom going to wear?
What kind of casket, does she want? What music would
she want? Does she want a memorial service or you
(12:55):
know or not? So it was very traumatic. I've experienced
both sides of being prepared and not being prepared on
what to do for someone's last journey.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I can't even imagine here. I mean, there's so much
that you have to think about and that you don't
think about until often it's too late, Like so many
of it, I wouldn't think about what someone would want
to wear in a casket, or the type of casket,
how they'd like the funeral to be, any of those things,
and then not to mention all of the logistical financial
(13:30):
things that you have to be aware of.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, they're the logistical things you don't think about until
you need to think about them. I just had a
friend to share with me whether to put the glasses
on her mom in the casket, you know, and it's
all about honoring and respecting the loved one who has died.
I think most people would think that way. So it's
really helpful and beneficial for the family member to know
(13:56):
these things before they have to decide right.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yes, how they'd like to be honored. And then I
think in another thing that can overwhelm the caregivers a
lot that I'm not sure if you can speak to
this either, but having all of their documents and their
necessary paperwork in one place or you know, you often
hear about people kind of scrambling there at the end.
They don't know where the bank account information is or
(14:24):
the will. Things like this that can really overwhelm the
next of ken.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, it opens up a whole other can of worms.
For instance, if a son or daughter has power of
attorney for their loved one, well, they find out after
the fact, once their loved one dies they no longer
have the power of attorney and for them to get
to their mom or dad's or grandparents' bank account to
(14:52):
pay for the funeral, they no longer have that ability
just with the power of attorney. And I do want
to give a disclaimer. I am not a lawyer and
not an accountant. I just know this from what I've
heard from other people, what they've learned.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Yeah, I didn't know that either. I probably would not
have even known to ask that question. But this is
the type of work that you're doing. You're just somebody
who I think provides on the one hand, the emotional
support they are both for the family and for the patient,
but then also knows the right questions to ask here
(15:28):
at the end, would that be accurate?
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yes? And my mission is I want to provide the resources,
give them links or encourage them to find a lawyer,
you know, the subject matter experts, to have everything in place,
and I believe people as early in their twenties should
be putting together this plan because we are not promised tomorrow,
(15:54):
and God forbid, you know, something happens too soon. What
are your loved ones going to do, especially when they're Yeah,
it's very traumatic. I know that from personal experience, but
that's a whole nother story to know what needs to
be done in order to honor the loved one.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
You're right, because we never know what's going to happen,
So one of the best things we can do is
just to be as prepared as possible. And I'm thinking
about small daily chores around the house like picking up
the mail or writing down phone messages or laundry, feeding pets,
taking care of children, picking up children from soccer practice
(16:32):
or whatever. And how overwhelming that can be for caregivers
who know they have to do these things for themselves
and for their own families, but then also for the patient,
for their loved one, and it can't be easy. So
being able to have someone to provide those resources for
and having someone as an advocate, what a special gift
(16:54):
that could be And.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You said the right word. An advocate for the loved
one the caregivers is very stressful. By educating caregivers people,
when that time comes, it's not going to be as scary.
And hospice is a great pool to help families understand
(17:16):
the dying process. As a child caring for your parent,
all of a sudden, you see changes in how they act,
how they look, not understanding the process, and hospice helps
educate the caregivers on what's going on, what to expect,
(17:37):
the signs of when somebody is preparing to pass. That's
a whole other show. There so just being familiar with
that and having a resource through the hospice nurse can
be very helpful in minimizing the anxiety.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Yeah, no kidding, And again it's things that we don't
think about till often it's too late. So I really
appreciate you being here and talking about this so we
can educate our listeners on this. I want to switch
gears just a little bit here for a second and
talk about a related topic. We often hear that people
(18:16):
have regrets as they get closer to death, and I've
wondered if you've experienced this with any of the people
you've worked with. Forgiveness is often a huge theme for people.
There may be regret about having been unkind or selfish
throughout one's life. I myself, I have to admit that
I've been so fortunate so far to not have experienced
(18:37):
many deaths of family or friends. But I imagine it
not only makes you think about your own mortality, but
you acknowledge at the same time that life really does
go on. What would you say to that.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I've seen that a lot as well, where the person
who's on their last journey wish they would have said
something or ask forgiveness or given forgiveness to a family member,
their journey with God or their higher being, if they
have regrets for things not done that they wanted. That's
(19:13):
a big part of the last journey. And I encourage
everybody every day to be mindful. If you have to
give forgiveness or ask for forgiveness at whatever age, take
care of that now because you don't know if you're
going to be able to do that tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Oh my gosh, that was so pivotal right there, well,
said Eileen. What would you say to families, you know,
just being mindful about life and about the people you
interact with every day. What else would you say to
people about approaching end of life that they might not know.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I would want to say, and to highly encourage people
to start now, whatever age you are, start now.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Some of the.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Easier things to do are making a will, writing down
your passwords and your logins to your financials that your
loved one are going to need.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
To have access to.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Also to have those conversations with your loved one, select
who's going to be the primary person to oversee the
last day of.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Your journey, and do that now.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
There's no reasons to wait there's quite a few websites
out there which on my blog will have resources on
how to have the conversation, having a little book that
you can fill in all of this information and sometimes
even family history that maybe the grandkids or great grandkids
(20:47):
may not know that Aunt Sally and uncle John their
relations to whoever, or the genealogy part of it. If
you have that information, put it in there for a
future your generations to know.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Oh, that's such good advice there. What would you say
to people who are on the other side of the spectrum,
and you know they are approaching end of life and
they might not be ready to have these conversations or
haven't thought about any of these topics yet.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I would really encourage them to start talking about it.
Putting things in place, because as I said earlier, it
is the greatest gift you can give a loved one
by having these things in place, pre planning your funeral
or having life insurance available to help with those expenses.
(21:41):
Although a little insider here, insurance you don't get right away,
so you need to have resources that pay the funeral
home before they'll conduct the funeral. So just having those resources.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah, I understand, and I'm not even sure about the
cost of this, but I'm sure it's pretty expensive and
a lot of people might not realize the expense associated
with these things.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
The average funeral burial is nine thousand dollars, cremation is
like four to five thousand. But it does depend on
geographically where you're located, so that's something else. Do you
want to research to know ahead of time? Well, how
much do I need to leave for my loved ones
to take care of me? And even if you want
(22:29):
to have a party, you know, maybe you want to
have fireworks and I don't know a movie or you know,
it's what you want. It's there's no limit to how
you want to leave this earth.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
I didn't even think about that fireworks. Wow. But as
you said, it's really about having these conversations with your
loved one so that you know them and you know
how they want to be honored. And it's never too
and to start talking about this exactly, Eileen, Do you
(23:04):
have any other bits of information that you'd like to
share that you think would be helpful to people who
don't know much about this topic.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I think I shared a good starting point I leave
everyone with start now with the conversation and check into
hospice because they can be a great resource. And I
do have a blog that will have a bunch of
resources how to do start the conversation or grief and mourning.
(23:34):
That's a whole other piece of hospice. That would be
end life awareness dot com.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
That's excellent and we're going to include that website in
our listening notes. So thank you very much for that, Eileen,
and thank you so much for being here today to
talk about a potentially very difficult topic. Really appreciate your insight.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Right, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Many people can't fathom the appeal of a career working
in hospice. The reality is that it's very challenging to
deal with death and terminal illness on a daily basis.
And if you've ever spoken with someone who works in hospice,
they rarely describe it as exhausting or depressing. Like Eileen,
(24:34):
they speak of this work in positive terms. It's an
honor to be with someone as they transition. It's extremely gratifying.
It's what I was meant to do. It's sacred work.
In speaking with Eileen, one thing I was struck by
was her ability to focus not on her own agenda,
(24:55):
but to instead focus on the end of life wishes
of the page and families she cares for. We hear
about social responsibility in the corporate sense, which is often
known as CSR, meaning corporate social responsibility, and it means
that a company takes steps to ensure there are positive
(25:16):
social and environmental effects associated with the way the business operates.
But social responsibility is also an element of emotional intelligence.
In EQ terms, social responsibility is your ability and tendency
to consider the needs of the group. It's the moral
compass that directs your behavior towards promoting the greater good
(25:40):
of others, and it's not just about writing a check,
but rather wanting to help others and having a positive
impact on our group in our community. If you are
one of those people like Eileen who naturally thrives when
you help others, your social activity will most likely bring
(26:01):
you a deep sense of fulfillment and inner self worth.
Many people who are skilled in this area are active
and avid volunteers, and it's well known that volunteering is
more than just a noble pastime. Science has demonstrated the
positive effects of doing good for others time and again
(26:22):
volunteering and acts of altruism are known to have health benefits,
such as decreased blood pressure and pain, increased endorphins and
other feel good chemicals in the brain. It helps increase
life expectancy as well as overall happiness and well being. Ultimately,
helping others boosts our own self worth. But not everyone
(26:48):
is as selfless as Eileen. If you tend to focus
more on projects that are of interest to you personally
instead of what's best for your work group, your social group,
your family, or your community, here are some ways that
you can start being more socially responsible. Think about aligning
your interests with those of the larger group. For example,
(27:12):
if you love basketball, think about donating your time to
teach others. Being a good corporate citizen doesn't always need
to involve a financial investment. You can donate things you
no longer use, or you can even just make a
point of saying good morning and asking someone how their
(27:32):
weekend was. If you're a leader, you can also show
others that you're willing to roll up your sleeves in
support of your team or your colleagues. Leading by example
sounds easy, but the most successful leaders are the ones
who practice what they preach.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
My favorite way.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Of helping others is just to be there. When someone
I know is in need, I'll give them a call,
send them an email to check in on them, and
ask them if they'd like to talk. Anytime someone asks
for my help, I reach out immediately or as immediately
as I can, instead of letting it go and calling
(28:13):
back at my convenience, and I listen intently, focusing on
their experience. There really is nothing more satisfying than the
feeling of doing good for others. The ability to develop
meaningful connections with others can be hugely impactful in combating
stress through camaraderie and increasing trust and overall well being.
(28:38):
And let's face it, we could use more altruism today.
Try it yourself and put EQ to work.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Thanks for listening to EQ at Work. Find us using
the hashtag EQ at work. Visit our website eq atwork
dot net. Subscribe to this podcast via itune, speaker, or
your favorite podcast platform. We'd love you to leave a
rating or review, and if you have a moment, a
simple share would be wonderful. Remember tell your friends. Mastering
(29:12):
your emotions matters. Next week's episode is our final one
this season, and if you are a teacher, you'll want
to be sure to tune in. Our guest is Cindy's
a Keys, a former teacher who used her experience in
the classroom to launch two other careers. But it's the
skills that teaching taught her that have allowed her to
(29:35):
succeed outside of the classroom. Even if you're not a teacher,
Cindy has many lessons you'll be able to use.
If you have to give forgiveness or ask for forgiveness
at whatever age, take care of that now, because you
don't know if you're gonna be able to do that tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Today's topic is one that is often considered taboo, yet
it's one of the few universal life experiences, and that
is death. This episode will shad a figurative weight on
things we all need to be aware of as we
prepare ourselves and their loved ones for that final journey.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Hi, folks, I'm your host, Edith Richards, and you may
know me from my podcast series Myers Briggs Question Corner
or my website at top career dot com. I've spent
the last twenty years of my career helped people get
smart about their careers, and I've found that lots of
smart people aren't successful. Why is that. I'm convinced it's
(01:09):
due to emotional intelligence. In e Q at work, I'm
bringing you inspiring people and messages to help you get
smart about your emotions. Any close encounter with death reminds
(01:35):
us of the fragility of life, a fact my guest
today knows all too well. Eileen Thorman had a near
death experience herself. For many people who have had NDEs
or near death experiences, the event fades and life eventually
returns to normal. Some people, like Eileen, use the experience
to reorder their priorities. In Eileen's case, her experience with
(01:58):
death was one factor in becoming an advocate for hospice care,
which is focused on providing comfort and dignity, emotional support,
as well as resources and advice for caregivers. Eileen, Welcome
to EQ at work. It's really a pleasure to have
you here today to talk about what is a very
(02:19):
difficult topic for many of us.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Thank you for having me Edith.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
So, you've been working in the healthcare field for a
number of years, particularly in hospice, and I know that's
your passion, and your near death experience was one factor
that helped you to define that passion. So I'd love
to just dive right in to hear about this experience.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So about twenty three years ago, I became very ill
and I was put into a medically induced coma for
five weeks. They did not anticipate me to survive. I'm
also a Type one diabetic, which complicated the true treatment,
and what I had was septic shock. So the doctor's
(03:04):
goal was to get the bacteria out of my system.
And in this coma for five weeks, I lost a
lot of weight. I did survive, obviously, and when I
came out, I had to go through a lot of therapy,
cognitive therapy, speech therapy, physical therapy. I could not walk,
(03:25):
I couldn't talk. It was very strange to wake up
out of a coma and not being able to do
the things that you take for granted.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
I can't imagine what that experience must have been like. Cognitively,
where were you at that time? What was it like?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
So I remember being in a fog. I remember this
kind of being out of it. I didn't really know
the extent of it until I was transferred to inpatient therapy.
I was a neuropsychologist. I worked with him for many
months and they would show me a card with say,
(04:06):
a bird on it, and they would ask me, what
is on this card? I didn't know at the time.
I didn't realize that I should have known that, and
I didn't know it. So that was the initial assessment,
that part of it that they gave me and to
determine what therapy I needed. At the time, I didn't
really think about it. I just did what I had
(04:29):
to do, you know, the physical therapy, all the many exercises.
I have two three inch binders of my exercises that
I had to do. Cognitively, sometimes I go through those again.
Because our brains can retrain themselves. I guess it's the
(04:50):
nerves or the I'm not medically acknowledgeable in that per se,
but it just retrained itself to do things so I
could function like everybody else.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
And this was twenty years ago. Obviously, you've you know,
quote unquote recovered from that and your life's moved on.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, I've been able to work around any challenges I
may have. It's been so long now that I don't
see any of the challenges. I think I've developed coping
skills or strategies to work around it. I think everybody
has the moments where they're looking for a word and
they can't come up with it. So I don't feel
(05:30):
too out of the normal when things like that happen.
I just work with it.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yeah, that's good to hear. I want to just backtrack
just a minute here, because I think when people are
hearing a near death experience or having been in a
coma even a medically induced coma for a certain amount
of time, we naturally want to ask, as I did, well,
what do you remember about the near death experience?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So I don't have any recall of anything during my coma.
I didn't see anything. I do remember at the very end,
when they were weaning me off of the medication to
come to I remember being extremely thirsty. I was riding
in the back of a pickup truck to an orange
(06:16):
juice factory. I was guzzling all this orange juice. The
people who were driving, which I didn't recognize, left and
I got out of the truck. There were all these
boxes on the beach. I was in Florida at the time,
popped up by a stick. So I went in a box.
The guy closed the box and then opened it, and
(06:40):
I remember, we've been for you. So I'm not quite
sure what all that means, but I remember it like
it was yesterday.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
That's what I was going to say. I'm like, wow,
that's a really vivid I mean, I get as a green.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Right, yeah, I guess I'm not really sure what it was.
Speaker 5 (06:57):
It's funny that you can remember that said detail all
these years later, right, Yeah, yeah, it is well, I'm
really pleased to hear that you came out of that
so well and you're pretty much back to your normal self.
But that experience, it sounds like, was a catalyst or
a defining moment for some of the work that you're
(07:19):
doing now.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yes, I would agree with that because having a near
death experience, and there's all kinds of experiences, but in
my case, one day I was fine, the next day
I'm in the ambulance, go into the emergency room, and
then I'm in ICU for five weeks. I was in
the hospital for three months total, from beginning to end.
(07:43):
So you can't count on tomorrow. And I've learned to
appreciate each day, to appreciate people for who they are,
meeting them where they're at, instead of expecting them to
do what I want or see things how I want,
all kinds of different outlooks. That's changed in my life.
(08:04):
I think I've always been that way, But knowing that
you're not promised tomorrow is to have a little more patience,
to be more thoughtful, empathetic, to understand what people go
through medically at different times in their life.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Yeah, so it sounds like it's helped you to be
more empathetic.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, more empathetic, having an understanding. I would agree with
that I gained most of my death experience when I
got my first job in hospice, which I feel that
my near death experience has led me towards hospice work
and I believe God had a purpose for me to
(08:49):
help others in this area.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
So how long have you been working in hospice care?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
A little over five years. I started out as a
hospice volunteer your coordinator. Currently I'm a health information manager
with a hospice provider, and I've just always had since
then a passion for the elderly, trying to give them
distractions or visiting them or currently I'm making over one
(09:18):
hundred Valentine Day cards to give to the senior citizen
at facilities for Valentine's Day.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
That's excellent, and it's so refreshing to hear this because
it's such needed work. It's just a field that we
don't hear about a lot of people going into, and
it's so needed because it's something we're all going to
face someday and it's something we're most likely going to
have to face with our loved ones and it can
(09:46):
be overwhelming, I imagine, especially for well for the patient themselves,
but also for the caregivers.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yes, that's something I noticed once I got into working
and how a lot of times there's a level of
dysfunction that occurs within a family because they're afraid, they're scared,
they don't understand the death process. And to be frank,
we're all going to die. And my passion has become
(10:15):
to educate people on how to plan their last journey
because it's going to happen, and it can be the
greatest gift you can give to your loved one to
have everything planned out and things in place so it
can become a beautiful experience when your love one pass
And I experience that personally with my dad.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Oh okay, are you able to talk about that a
little bit? Sure?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So when I first got my job with hospice, I
was very close to my dad for like two peas
in a pod. I was living in Virginia, he lived
in Iowa. I get this job and for three years
I'm telling him everything I'm learning about hospice because I
knew nothing about hospice. So three years later, it was
(11:03):
his last journey. He was given a choice. In addition
to his dialysis three times a week, he also was
going to have to go in twice a week to
get his lungs tapped. And my dad interrupted the doctor,
which is not like my dad. He was a very
kind man. He would never interrupt anybody, and he just
(11:24):
cut the doctor off and said, no, I want to
go on hospice. And that's kind of when my light
bulb went on on why I got my hospice volunteer
job three years ago. I was educating my dad, not
knowing I was doing that, so when it came to
his time, he wasn't afraid. He didn't hear all the
(11:46):
false myths that people say about hospice, and his passing
was really a beautiful experience for him as well as
our family.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Wow, what a gift you were able to give him.
And it's just interesting what you say that at the
time you really didn't even realize what you were doing
or that it was a gift, but now looking back,
it surely was.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, And I think that's where I've gotten my passion
to start educating people. My hope is to someday give
presentations to groups, whether it be it a church or
a civic group or you know, employer developing a blog
with resources because there's wills into life information advanced directives.
(12:33):
What do you want to wear in your casket? I
remember when my mom passed away. She passed away a
lot sooner or much too early, and it was very
traumatic trying to decide, well, what is mom going to wear?
What kind of casket, does she want? What music would
she want? Does she want a memorial service or you
(12:55):
know or not? So it was very traumatic. I've experienced
both sides of being prepared and not being prepared on
what to do for someone's last journey.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I can't even imagine here. I mean, there's so much
that you have to think about and that you don't
think about until often it's too late, Like so many
of it, I wouldn't think about what someone would want
to wear in a casket, or the type of casket,
how they'd like the funeral to be, any of those things,
and then not to mention all of the logistical financial
(13:30):
things that you have to be aware of.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, they're the logistical things you don't think about until
you need to think about them. I just had a
friend to share with me whether to put the glasses
on her mom in the casket, you know, and it's
all about honoring and respecting the loved one who has died.
I think most people would think that way. So it's
really helpful and beneficial for the family member to know
(13:56):
these things before they have to decide right.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yes, how they'd like to be honored. And then I
think in another thing that can overwhelm the caregivers a
lot that I'm not sure if you can speak to
this either, but having all of their documents and their
necessary paperwork in one place or you know, you often
hear about people kind of scrambling there at the end.
They don't know where the bank account information is or
(14:24):
the will. Things like this that can really overwhelm the
next of ken.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, it opens up a whole other can of worms.
For instance, if a son or daughter has power of
attorney for their loved one, well, they find out after
the fact, once their loved one dies they no longer
have the power of attorney and for them to get
to their mom or dad's or grandparents' bank account to
(14:52):
pay for the funeral, they no longer have that ability
just with the power of attorney. And I do want
to give a disclaimer. I am not a lawyer and
not an accountant. I just know this from what I've
heard from other people, what they've learned.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Yeah, I didn't know that either. I probably would not
have even known to ask that question. But this is
the type of work that you're doing. You're just somebody
who I think provides on the one hand, the emotional
support they are both for the family and for the patient,
but then also knows the right questions to ask here
(15:28):
at the end, would that be accurate?
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yes? And my mission is I want to provide the resources,
give them links or encourage them to find a lawyer,
you know, the subject matter experts, to have everything in place,
and I believe people as early in their twenties should
be putting together this plan because we are not promised tomorrow,
(15:54):
and God forbid, you know, something happens too soon. What
are your loved ones going to do, especially when they're Yeah,
it's very traumatic. I know that from personal experience, but
that's a whole nother story to know what needs to
be done in order to honor the loved one.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
You're right, because we never know what's going to happen,
So one of the best things we can do is
just to be as prepared as possible. And I'm thinking
about small daily chores around the house like picking up
the mail or writing down phone messages or laundry, feeding pets,
taking care of children, picking up children from soccer practice
(16:32):
or whatever. And how overwhelming that can be for caregivers
who know they have to do these things for themselves
and for their own families, but then also for the patient,
for their loved one, and it can't be easy. So
being able to have someone to provide those resources for
and having someone as an advocate, what a special gift
(16:54):
that could be And.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You said the right word. An advocate for the loved
one the caregivers is very stressful. By educating caregivers people,
when that time comes, it's not going to be as scary.
And hospice is a great pool to help families understand
(17:16):
the dying process. As a child caring for your parent,
all of a sudden, you see changes in how they act,
how they look, not understanding the process, and hospice helps
educate the caregivers on what's going on, what to expect,
(17:37):
the signs of when somebody is preparing to pass. That's
a whole other show. There so just being familiar with
that and having a resource through the hospice nurse can
be very helpful in minimizing the anxiety.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Yeah, no kidding, And again it's things that we don't
think about till often it's too late. So I really
appreciate you being here and talking about this so we
can educate our listeners on this. I want to switch
gears just a little bit here for a second and
talk about a related topic. We often hear that people
(18:16):
have regrets as they get closer to death, and I've
wondered if you've experienced this with any of the people
you've worked with. Forgiveness is often a huge theme for people.
There may be regret about having been unkind or selfish
throughout one's life. I myself, I have to admit that
I've been so fortunate so far to not have experienced
(18:37):
many deaths of family or friends. But I imagine it
not only makes you think about your own mortality, but
you acknowledge at the same time that life really does
go on. What would you say to that.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I've seen that a lot as well, where the person
who's on their last journey wish they would have said
something or ask forgiveness or given forgiveness to a family member,
their journey with God or their higher being, if they
have regrets for things not done that they wanted. That's
(19:13):
a big part of the last journey. And I encourage
everybody every day to be mindful. If you have to
give forgiveness or ask for forgiveness at whatever age, take
care of that now because you don't know if you're
going to be able to do that tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Oh my gosh, that was so pivotal right there, well,
said Eileen. What would you say to families, you know,
just being mindful about life and about the people you
interact with every day. What else would you say to
people about approaching end of life that they might not know.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I would want to say, and to highly encourage people
to start now, whatever age you are, start now.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Some of the.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Easier things to do are making a will, writing down
your passwords and your logins to your financials that your
loved one are going to need.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
To have access to.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Also to have those conversations with your loved one, select
who's going to be the primary person to oversee the
last day of.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Your journey, and do that now.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
There's no reasons to wait there's quite a few websites
out there which on my blog will have resources on
how to have the conversation, having a little book that
you can fill in all of this information and sometimes
even family history that maybe the grandkids or great grandkids
(20:47):
may not know that Aunt Sally and uncle John their
relations to whoever, or the genealogy part of it. If
you have that information, put it in there for a
future your generations to know.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Oh, that's such good advice there. What would you say
to people who are on the other side of the spectrum,
and you know they are approaching end of life and
they might not be ready to have these conversations or
haven't thought about any of these topics yet.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I would really encourage them to start talking about it.
Putting things in place, because as I said earlier, it
is the greatest gift you can give a loved one
by having these things in place, pre planning your funeral
or having life insurance available to help with those expenses.
(21:41):
Although a little insider here, insurance you don't get right away,
so you need to have resources that pay the funeral
home before they'll conduct the funeral. So just having those resources.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah, I understand, and I'm not even sure about the
cost of this, but I'm sure it's pretty expensive and
a lot of people might not realize the expense associated
with these things.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
The average funeral burial is nine thousand dollars, cremation is
like four to five thousand. But it does depend on
geographically where you're located, so that's something else. Do you
want to research to know ahead of time? Well, how
much do I need to leave for my loved ones
to take care of me? And even if you want
(22:29):
to have a party, you know, maybe you want to
have fireworks and I don't know a movie or you know,
it's what you want. It's there's no limit to how
you want to leave this earth.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
I didn't even think about that fireworks. Wow. But as
you said, it's really about having these conversations with your
loved one so that you know them and you know
how they want to be honored. And it's never too
and to start talking about this exactly, Eileen, Do you
(23:04):
have any other bits of information that you'd like to
share that you think would be helpful to people who
don't know much about this topic.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I think I shared a good starting point I leave
everyone with start now with the conversation and check into
hospice because they can be a great resource. And I
do have a blog that will have a bunch of
resources how to do start the conversation or grief and mourning.
(23:34):
That's a whole other piece of hospice. That would be
end life awareness dot com.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
That's excellent and we're going to include that website in
our listening notes. So thank you very much for that, Eileen,
and thank you so much for being here today to
talk about a potentially very difficult topic. Really appreciate your insight.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Right, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Many people can't fathom the appeal of a career working
in hospice. The reality is that it's very challenging to
deal with death and terminal illness on a daily basis.
And if you've ever spoken with someone who works in hospice,
they rarely describe it as exhausting or depressing. Like Eileen,
(24:34):
they speak of this work in positive terms. It's an
honor to be with someone as they transition. It's extremely gratifying.
It's what I was meant to do. It's sacred work.
In speaking with Eileen, one thing I was struck by
was her ability to focus not on her own agenda,
(24:55):
but to instead focus on the end of life wishes
of the page and families she cares for. We hear
about social responsibility in the corporate sense, which is often
known as CSR, meaning corporate social responsibility, and it means
that a company takes steps to ensure there are positive
(25:16):
social and environmental effects associated with the way the business operates.
But social responsibility is also an element of emotional intelligence.
In EQ terms, social responsibility is your ability and tendency
to consider the needs of the group. It's the moral
compass that directs your behavior towards promoting the greater good
(25:40):
of others, and it's not just about writing a check,
but rather wanting to help others and having a positive
impact on our group in our community. If you are
one of those people like Eileen who naturally thrives when
you help others, your social activity will most likely bring
(26:01):
you a deep sense of fulfillment and inner self worth.
Many people who are skilled in this area are active
and avid volunteers, and it's well known that volunteering is
more than just a noble pastime. Science has demonstrated the
positive effects of doing good for others time and again
(26:22):
volunteering and acts of altruism are known to have health benefits,
such as decreased blood pressure and pain, increased endorphins and
other feel good chemicals in the brain. It helps increase
life expectancy as well as overall happiness and well being. Ultimately,
helping others boosts our own self worth. But not everyone
(26:48):
is as selfless as Eileen. If you tend to focus
more on projects that are of interest to you personally
instead of what's best for your work group, your social group,
your family, or your community, here are some ways that
you can start being more socially responsible. Think about aligning
your interests with those of the larger group. For example,
(27:12):
if you love basketball, think about donating your time to
teach others. Being a good corporate citizen doesn't always need
to involve a financial investment. You can donate things you
no longer use, or you can even just make a
point of saying good morning and asking someone how their
(27:32):
weekend was. If you're a leader, you can also show
others that you're willing to roll up your sleeves in
support of your team or your colleagues. Leading by example
sounds easy, but the most successful leaders are the ones
who practice what they preach.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
My favorite way.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Of helping others is just to be there. When someone
I know is in need, I'll give them a call,
send them an email to check in on them, and
ask them if they'd like to talk. Anytime someone asks
for my help, I reach out immediately or as immediately
as I can, instead of letting it go and calling
(28:13):
back at my convenience, and I listen intently, focusing on
their experience. There really is nothing more satisfying than the
feeling of doing good for others. The ability to develop
meaningful connections with others can be hugely impactful in combating
stress through camaraderie and increasing trust and overall well being.
(28:38):
And let's face it, we could use more altruism today.
Try it yourself and put EQ to work.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Thanks for listening to EQ at Work. Find us using
the hashtag EQ at work. Visit our website eq atwork
dot net. Subscribe to this podcast via itune, speaker, or
your favorite podcast platform. We'd love you to leave a
rating or review, and if you have a moment, a
simple share would be wonderful. Remember tell your friends. Mastering
(29:12):
your emotions matters. Next week's episode is our final one
this season, and if you are a teacher, you'll want
to be sure to tune in. Our guest is Cindy's
a Keys, a former teacher who used her experience in
the classroom to launch two other careers. But it's the
skills that teaching taught her that have allowed her to
(29:35):
succeed outside of the classroom. Even if you're not a teacher,
Cindy has many lessons you'll be able to use.
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