May 20, 2025 • 19 mins
In this episode, I spoke with author Samuel de Korte about his book "Tuskegee Airmen: Dogfighting with the Luftwaffe and Jim Crow". During the Second World War, the Tuskegee Airmen had not one but two enemies to overcome: the German Luftwaffe and Jim Crow. In this book, the inspiring history of these men is recounted detailing the struggles the men faced at home and abroad.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Ernie Pyle World War
Two Museum Podcast, your podcast of Ernie Pyle, the voice
of the American soldier during World War Two. My name
is doug Hess and if you're tuning in to the
World War Earnie Pile World War Two Museum Podcast. What
we do on this podcast is share with you pieces
of piles life, from his humble beginning on an Indiana
(00:36):
farm to becoming a polite surprise winning American journalist, a
war correspondent who is best known for his stories about
ordinary American soldiers during.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
World War Two.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
And today we have a very special guest with us today,
Samuel Dacorta. I hope I'm saying that correctly. Samuel about
his latest book regarding the Test Gigee Airman.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Samuel.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Welcome to the ny Power World War Two Museum Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yes, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to
be on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Well, thank you for taking a few minutes out of
your busy schedule to be with us today. And one
of the things that I like to do, especially when
we have authors on, is to allow you to kind
of give us a quick overview of what your book
is about.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Okay, So I wrote a book about the Tuskega Airmen.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
It's a topic that I'm very fashionate, fascinated about. I
always tried to write about Black Americans during World War Two.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
It's a topic I specialize in.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
A long time ago, when I was still in university,
I also wrote my graduate thesis about It was about
the representation of Black American soldiers during World War Two,
and I noticed there was a clear gap between their
contributions during the Second World War and how they are
presented in contemporary media. Anyway, it's an underdigressing back on topic,
(02:09):
I wrote a book about the Tuskegee Airmen. It's a
fascinating group of American pilots. There was a ninety nine
fighter Squadron, which was the first black American combat unit, sorry,
first black American pilots to go overseas. And later they
became a part of the three hundred and thirty second
Fighter Group, which was a fighter group consisting of three
(02:31):
different squadrons, and it became one of the few squad
few fighter groups in the area they fought in the
south of Italy that consisted of four squadrons. And there's
also a lesser known story about the four hundred and
seventy seven Bombardment Group, which was stationed in the US.
(02:52):
It only had a service within the US. It never
performed in combat. And yeah, the book is about all
of these units.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You know, same you're talking in the book that these airmen,
that the Tusk Airmen not only had to fight the Germans,
but they also had to fight the Jim Crow Laws
as well, and so they were really fighting two battles
at one time.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And you have to understand that during this period, during
the Second World War, the US was segregated, so there
were like facilities for white Americans and there.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Were facilities for Black Americans.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
And as Black Americans, they often had like lesser quality
or yeah, lesser opportunities than the white Americans. And for example,
one of the things that had to overcome was the
ability to receive training to become a pilot.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Like before.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
They were for example, units like infantry units or armored
units for black Americans. But there weren't any. Yeah, there
weren't any pilot units. There weren't any fighter groups or
other units where they were stationed.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I recall the story.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Of a veteran and I believe he served in the
armor who initially wanted to become a pilot, and then
they said to him, like, we don't have a unit
to assign to assign you. So what they did was
instead they propose that he joined the armored units, which
(04:39):
he did. But yeah, that was something that they had
to overcome.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, and you know, like you're talking, and in the book,
it's not only did they have to overcome the segrogation,
but as you mentioned, the training, the equipment, they never
received the same quality as the white soldiers did during
this time.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, so often, Yeah, they were treated as second class
and this was represented in everything that had to do
with them. For example, I know that many black American
soldiers during the Second World War had trouble with getting
off base because they were just limited options, or if
(05:29):
they wanted to get off base, they had to sit
in the back of the bus. And this was again
something that they had overcome. As for these pilots, they
also had to outcome racial prejudices, rejudices of their superior officers.
So the ninety nine Fighter Squadron was a part of
(05:52):
the seventy nine Fighter Group. But this fighter group, no, sorry,
I'm not entirely sure about fire group. But the ninety
nine Fighter Squadron served within a fighter group in Africa.
But their superior officer was racist, and this was one
(06:15):
of the challenges that they encountered because this superior officer
wrote a very negative report about them, and he also
recommended that instead of being used for combat, they would
be used as coastal patrol, and this meant they had
less opportunities to engage with the enemy. He also wrote
(06:37):
other negative things, like saying that they would scatter under
when they came to contact with the enemy and those
kind of things.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
And the problem of this is that.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Because these were black American pilots, there were no veterans.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
That could be assigned to the unit.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
So other units, for example, when they got out of seas,
they would receive like a couple of pilots who had
been into combat before, who had been in the service
for a longer period. But for black Americans, there hadn't
been Black Americans within the Army Air Force up until
maybe one or two years ago, so for many of
(07:19):
them this was the first time in combat. And of course,
like that is reflected in the performance of the unit.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, and so during your research.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Would you able to get your hands on a lot
of material to write this book.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, there's many fascinating units. So there's many fascinating documents
about this unit, and a lot of it is available online,
so that was a great benefit in this research. I
also managed to get in touch with remarkable people.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
In Italy.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
In NiTi, there's a monument dedicated to these units, so
the three hundred thirty second Fighter Group and the nineteen
nine Fighter Squadron, and I got in touch with some
local historians and they have been a great asset in
the research.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Oh, that's that's great because you know, it's really important
to talk about this because a lot of our veterans,
especially from World War Two, are passing away at great rates,
and before we know what, nobody's going to be left
from World War Two to be able to capture some
(08:39):
of these stories that haven't already been written down. So
I think what you're doing is excellent in terms of this.
During your research and the writing, did anything really surprise you.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
It's a good question.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
In a way.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
I'm actually surprised.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
By the certain Okay, I'm trying to think of how
I can best explain it. I've got a lot of
documentation and a lot of resources related to all of
these men, and it's just so fascinating to read about
these inspiring heroes. I think there all of them is
(09:24):
they have a lot of inspirational aspects to their histories,
and that can be from many different pilots. There's Harold Brown,
for example, who was actually shut down. He became a
prisoner of war and he was actually saved by a
German constable.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
So he was taken prisoner and.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
They escorted him to a village and once they were there,
the villagers were very angry. And of course this is
also present in the series Masters of the Air where
the bomber pilots are attacked by German civilians and they
threatened him and he was actually saved by the German
(10:11):
constable who escorted him out of the village. There's Luther
Smith who was shut down and he describes like in detail,
like what went on as he spiraled down, and it's
fascinating to read all of this, and it's also Yeah,
(10:32):
Benjamin O. Davis, I think that in my mind, I
think he's in the top hundred of like most impressive Americans,
like what he has achieved despite the circumstances.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I think it's very impressive.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
And there's of course also tragic moments in the history
of the Yeah, Tuskegee Airmen, for example, thinking of Walter Manning,
he was shut down and on the third of April
he was taken away from where he was kept as
a prisoner. He was taken away by two German loop
officers and they hanged in and he's, as far as
(11:12):
we know, the only black American pilot to be lynched
during the Second World War.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
So there's very there's a lot of inspirational.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Content in the history, but it's also, Yeah, there's also
a very tragic aspect to it, and I think that, Yeah,
to me, all of these pilots are.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Heroes, absolutely, and you know.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Their performance was just as good as the white pilot
that was that was taking place during World War Two.
How did the attitude change when or diet it change
when the airmen got in in the air and actually
saw combat. Did some of the white officers start to
(12:05):
instantly recognize their value or did it take a little
bit more time.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So the ninety nine fighter Squadron for a time after
they were after the negative report by the racist officer
they moved to another unit, and that within that unit
they seem to have performed well, and many of the
(12:33):
white pilots seem to have been happy to have these
Black American pilots. For example, one of the black American
pilots was shut down overseas and a black and a
white pilot took off to see if they could find
him and rescue him.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Unfortunately, they didn't find him.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
As for the other aspects, yeah, I think in the
air it's difficult because you're up there as a you're
a you're in a.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Fighter aircraft or escorting bombergers.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
But I think that as they went back some things
did indeed change. For example, there were bomber pilots who
after they land, discovered that the pilots were black Americans.
Yet they were still very grateful for the help that
they had received or the support that they'd been given.
And I think that, yeah, in the combat in the area,
(13:32):
it doesn't matter what the color of the skin.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Is right right now, you're spot on once you're in
that danger, I think kind of well, I'm trying to
think of the exact word I want, but basically, everything,
like you said, doesn't matter. It's just trying to survive
at that point, and we probably don't really care who's
(13:58):
next to you as long as you're on the same team.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
And that's actually something that we've encountered also with other
units as well, for example, the six hundred and fourteen
tank destroy Time.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
It's one of the first books I wrote.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
It was a black American tank destroyerbiton, but it served
as part of a white infantry division. And Yeah, for
many of the white infantry soldiers, it changed their perceptions
on race to see these soldiers fight, or to fight
alongside of them. Imagine you're being attacked by the Germans
and these guys pull up with their toat artillery guns.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
You're very happy that they're there.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
They're not going to be like, no, they're black Americans
and they're very glad that they're there.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, absolutely, you want them there to help because you know,
when you're in a situation like that, which I can't
imagine what everybody's going through at that point, you're in
assistance or help in terms of that.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Did same after the war?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Did you do any research in study of what happened
to some of these individuals after World War Two? Did
a lot of them stay in the army or did
they quickly kind of get back to private life.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Many of them didn't he try to stay within the
Air Force. It also depended on what they did. The
reason I mentioned this is because there was a four
hundred and seventy second Bombardment Group. But after the Second
World War was over, after the fighting was over, this
unit was gradually reduced and eventually done away.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
And this meant that like the.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Skills that these pilots had, or these navigators, bombardiers.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Gunners, they weren't needed.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
As for the fighter pilots, they were kept, like the
thirty second final Group changed composition. But yeah, they did
keep these pilots because they had skills that could be
used by the Army Air Force. Several of them continued
to serve in combat. For example, they served in the
(16:21):
Korean War and a few even served during the Vietnam Wars.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Wow, it's amazing their story and really just the amazing
that they stuck with it. I mean, it could have
been very easy for some of them to have given
up because of the treatment that they were receiving, and
so it really speaks a lot to their character to
(16:49):
being able to take that. I'm going to say abuse
if you will, and still be able to perform at
a very high level.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yes, that's true, and a few of them. Elia said
that one of the reasons they stayed in the services
was because it allowed others to come after them, because
if all the say, all the.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Black pilots went out of the service, it meant that.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
For a whole new unit had to be created, which
meant that a new generation would possibly faced the same
challenges as they had faced. But if they stayed in
the service, it meant that there was at least one
Black American unit that they could join.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
They were breaking down those of course.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
The US Army integrated in nineteen eighty four, not eighty
four eight.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Sorry with Truman's executive order.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, Sam, very fascinating. Thank you for your time, and
I know we're here at a time. But one last
question before we kind of let you go, is what's
one takeaway that you hope the audience, our readers, our
listeners kind of take away from this book.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I hope that they find Benjamin O'Davis junior just as
aspiring as I find interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Very nice, Samuel fascinating. Book two The Tusky good hard
for me to say that airman. Uh.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
It's it's published by pen and Sword, but you can
find it online on whether it's Amazon or wherever you
purchase your books. Please go out and get a copy
of the book, Tuskegee Airman, Samuel. It's a very fascinating
not only topic, but also a very fascinating book, and
(18:53):
I know our audience is going to find it just
as fascinating as I did. Again, thank you so much
for coming on and spending some time with this today.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Thank you for having me. I hope that audience enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
If they have any questions from me here or they
would like to know more, they can find me online
at www dot Samueldecorta dot com.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Excellent. We will get that posted out there.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And again, Samuel, thank you so much for coming on
and spending a few minutes with us today. And I
also want to thank our listeners for listening to this
episode of the Ernie Power World War Two Museum Podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Thank you for listening. We'll see you soon.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Ernie Pyle World War
Two Museum Podcast, your podcast of Ernie Pyle, the voice
of the American soldier during World War Two. My name
is doug Hess and if you're tuning in to the
World War Earnie Pile World War Two Museum Podcast. What
we do on this podcast is share with you pieces
of piles life, from his humble beginning on an Indiana
(00:36):
farm to becoming a polite surprise winning American journalist, a
war correspondent who is best known for his stories about
ordinary American soldiers during.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
World War Two.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
And today we have a very special guest with us today,
Samuel Dacorta. I hope I'm saying that correctly. Samuel about
his latest book regarding the Test Gigee Airman.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Samuel.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Welcome to the ny Power World War Two Museum Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yes, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to
be on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Well, thank you for taking a few minutes out of
your busy schedule to be with us today. And one
of the things that I like to do, especially when
we have authors on, is to allow you to kind
of give us a quick overview of what your book
is about.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Okay, So I wrote a book about the Tuskega Airmen.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
It's a topic that I'm very fashionate, fascinated about. I
always tried to write about Black Americans during World War Two.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
It's a topic I specialize in.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
A long time ago, when I was still in university,
I also wrote my graduate thesis about It was about
the representation of Black American soldiers during World War Two,
and I noticed there was a clear gap between their
contributions during the Second World War and how they are
presented in contemporary media. Anyway, it's an underdigressing back on topic,
(02:09):
I wrote a book about the Tuskegee Airmen. It's a
fascinating group of American pilots. There was a ninety nine
fighter Squadron, which was the first black American combat unit, sorry,
first black American pilots to go overseas. And later they
became a part of the three hundred and thirty second
Fighter Group, which was a fighter group consisting of three
(02:31):
different squadrons, and it became one of the few squad
few fighter groups in the area they fought in the
south of Italy that consisted of four squadrons. And there's
also a lesser known story about the four hundred and
seventy seven Bombardment Group, which was stationed in the US.
(02:52):
It only had a service within the US. It never
performed in combat. And yeah, the book is about all
of these units.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You know, same you're talking in the book that these airmen,
that the Tusk Airmen not only had to fight the Germans,
but they also had to fight the Jim Crow Laws
as well, and so they were really fighting two battles
at one time.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And you have to understand that during this period, during
the Second World War, the US was segregated, so there
were like facilities for white Americans and there.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Were facilities for Black Americans.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
And as Black Americans, they often had like lesser quality
or yeah, lesser opportunities than the white Americans. And for example,
one of the things that had to overcome was the
ability to receive training to become a pilot.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Like before.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
They were for example, units like infantry units or armored
units for black Americans. But there weren't any. Yeah, there
weren't any pilot units. There weren't any fighter groups or
other units where they were stationed.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I recall the story.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Of a veteran and I believe he served in the
armor who initially wanted to become a pilot, and then
they said to him, like, we don't have a unit
to assign to assign you. So what they did was
instead they propose that he joined the armored units, which
(04:39):
he did. But yeah, that was something that they had
to overcome.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, and you know, like you're talking, and in the book,
it's not only did they have to overcome the segrogation,
but as you mentioned, the training, the equipment, they never
received the same quality as the white soldiers did during
this time.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, so often, Yeah, they were treated as second class
and this was represented in everything that had to do
with them. For example, I know that many black American
soldiers during the Second World War had trouble with getting
off base because they were just limited options, or if
(05:29):
they wanted to get off base, they had to sit
in the back of the bus. And this was again
something that they had overcome. As for these pilots, they
also had to outcome racial prejudices, rejudices of their superior officers.
So the ninety nine Fighter Squadron was a part of
(05:52):
the seventy nine Fighter Group. But this fighter group, no, sorry,
I'm not entirely sure about fire group. But the ninety
nine Fighter Squadron served within a fighter group in Africa.
But their superior officer was racist, and this was one
(06:15):
of the challenges that they encountered because this superior officer
wrote a very negative report about them, and he also
recommended that instead of being used for combat, they would
be used as coastal patrol, and this meant they had
less opportunities to engage with the enemy. He also wrote
(06:37):
other negative things, like saying that they would scatter under
when they came to contact with the enemy and those
kind of things.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
And the problem of this is that.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Because these were black American pilots, there were no veterans.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
That could be assigned to the unit.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
So other units, for example, when they got out of seas,
they would receive like a couple of pilots who had
been into combat before, who had been in the service
for a longer period. But for black Americans, there hadn't
been Black Americans within the Army Air Force up until
maybe one or two years ago, so for many of
(07:19):
them this was the first time in combat. And of course,
like that is reflected in the performance of the unit.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, and so during your research.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Would you able to get your hands on a lot
of material to write this book.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, there's many fascinating units. So there's many fascinating documents
about this unit, and a lot of it is available online,
so that was a great benefit in this research. I
also managed to get in touch with remarkable people.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
In Italy.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
In NiTi, there's a monument dedicated to these units, so
the three hundred thirty second Fighter Group and the nineteen
nine Fighter Squadron, and I got in touch with some
local historians and they have been a great asset in
the research.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Oh, that's that's great because you know, it's really important
to talk about this because a lot of our veterans,
especially from World War Two, are passing away at great rates,
and before we know what, nobody's going to be left
from World War Two to be able to capture some
(08:39):
of these stories that haven't already been written down. So
I think what you're doing is excellent in terms of this.
During your research and the writing, did anything really surprise you.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
It's a good question.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
In a way.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
I'm actually surprised.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
By the certain Okay, I'm trying to think of how
I can best explain it. I've got a lot of
documentation and a lot of resources related to all of
these men, and it's just so fascinating to read about
these inspiring heroes. I think there all of them is
(09:24):
they have a lot of inspirational aspects to their histories,
and that can be from many different pilots. There's Harold Brown,
for example, who was actually shut down. He became a
prisoner of war and he was actually saved by a
German constable.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
So he was taken prisoner and.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
They escorted him to a village and once they were there,
the villagers were very angry. And of course this is
also present in the series Masters of the Air where
the bomber pilots are attacked by German civilians and they
threatened him and he was actually saved by the German
(10:11):
constable who escorted him out of the village. There's Luther
Smith who was shut down and he describes like in detail,
like what went on as he spiraled down, and it's
fascinating to read all of this, and it's also Yeah,
(10:32):
Benjamin O. Davis, I think that in my mind, I
think he's in the top hundred of like most impressive Americans,
like what he has achieved despite the circumstances.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I think it's very impressive.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
And there's of course also tragic moments in the history
of the Yeah, Tuskegee Airmen, for example, thinking of Walter Manning,
he was shut down and on the third of April
he was taken away from where he was kept as
a prisoner. He was taken away by two German loop
officers and they hanged in and he's, as far as
(11:12):
we know, the only black American pilot to be lynched
during the Second World War.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
So there's very there's a lot of inspirational.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Content in the history, but it's also, Yeah, there's also
a very tragic aspect to it, and I think that, Yeah,
to me, all of these pilots are.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Heroes, absolutely, and you know.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Their performance was just as good as the white pilot
that was that was taking place during World War Two.
How did the attitude change when or diet it change
when the airmen got in in the air and actually
saw combat. Did some of the white officers start to
(12:05):
instantly recognize their value or did it take a little
bit more time.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So the ninety nine fighter Squadron for a time after
they were after the negative report by the racist officer
they moved to another unit, and that within that unit
they seem to have performed well, and many of the
(12:33):
white pilots seem to have been happy to have these
Black American pilots. For example, one of the black American
pilots was shut down overseas and a black and a
white pilot took off to see if they could find
him and rescue him.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Unfortunately, they didn't find him.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
As for the other aspects, yeah, I think in the
air it's difficult because you're up there as a you're
a you're in a.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Fighter aircraft or escorting bombergers.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
But I think that as they went back some things
did indeed change. For example, there were bomber pilots who
after they land, discovered that the pilots were black Americans.
Yet they were still very grateful for the help that
they had received or the support that they'd been given.
And I think that, yeah, in the combat in the area,
(13:32):
it doesn't matter what the color of the skin.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Is right right now, you're spot on once you're in
that danger, I think kind of well, I'm trying to
think of the exact word I want, but basically, everything,
like you said, doesn't matter. It's just trying to survive
at that point, and we probably don't really care who's
(13:58):
next to you as long as you're on the same team.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
And that's actually something that we've encountered also with other
units as well, for example, the six hundred and fourteen
tank destroy Time.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
It's one of the first books I wrote.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
It was a black American tank destroyerbiton, but it served
as part of a white infantry division. And Yeah, for
many of the white infantry soldiers, it changed their perceptions
on race to see these soldiers fight, or to fight
alongside of them. Imagine you're being attacked by the Germans
and these guys pull up with their toat artillery guns.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
You're very happy that they're there.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
They're not going to be like, no, they're black Americans
and they're very glad that they're there.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, absolutely, you want them there to help because you know,
when you're in a situation like that, which I can't
imagine what everybody's going through at that point, you're in
assistance or help in terms of that.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Did same after the war?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Did you do any research in study of what happened
to some of these individuals after World War Two? Did
a lot of them stay in the army or did
they quickly kind of get back to private life.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Many of them didn't he try to stay within the
Air Force. It also depended on what they did. The
reason I mentioned this is because there was a four
hundred and seventy second Bombardment Group. But after the Second
World War was over, after the fighting was over, this
unit was gradually reduced and eventually done away.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
And this meant that like the.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Skills that these pilots had, or these navigators, bombardiers.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Gunners, they weren't needed.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
As for the fighter pilots, they were kept, like the
thirty second final Group changed composition. But yeah, they did
keep these pilots because they had skills that could be
used by the Army Air Force. Several of them continued
to serve in combat. For example, they served in the
(16:21):
Korean War and a few even served during the Vietnam Wars.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Wow, it's amazing their story and really just the amazing
that they stuck with it. I mean, it could have
been very easy for some of them to have given
up because of the treatment that they were receiving, and
so it really speaks a lot to their character to
(16:49):
being able to take that. I'm going to say abuse
if you will, and still be able to perform at
a very high level.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yes, that's true, and a few of them. Elia said
that one of the reasons they stayed in the services
was because it allowed others to come after them, because
if all the say, all the.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Black pilots went out of the service, it meant that.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
For a whole new unit had to be created, which
meant that a new generation would possibly faced the same
challenges as they had faced. But if they stayed in
the service, it meant that there was at least one
Black American unit that they could join.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
They were breaking down those of course.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
The US Army integrated in nineteen eighty four, not eighty
four eight.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Sorry with Truman's executive order.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, Sam, very fascinating. Thank you for your time, and
I know we're here at a time. But one last
question before we kind of let you go, is what's
one takeaway that you hope the audience, our readers, our
listeners kind of take away from this book.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I hope that they find Benjamin O'Davis junior just as
aspiring as I find interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Very nice, Samuel fascinating. Book two The Tusky good hard
for me to say that airman. Uh.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
It's it's published by pen and Sword, but you can
find it online on whether it's Amazon or wherever you
purchase your books. Please go out and get a copy
of the book, Tuskegee Airman, Samuel. It's a very fascinating
not only topic, but also a very fascinating book, and
(18:53):
I know our audience is going to find it just
as fascinating as I did. Again, thank you so much
for coming on and spending some time with this today.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Thank you for having me. I hope that audience enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
If they have any questions from me here or they
would like to know more, they can find me online
at www dot Samueldecorta dot com.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Excellent. We will get that posted out there.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And again, Samuel, thank you so much for coming on
and spending a few minutes with us today. And I
also want to thank our listeners for listening to this
episode of the Ernie Power World War Two Museum Podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Thank you for listening. We'll see you soon.
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