Loyalty in the Parties: With Guest John Rothmann

John Rothmann, host of Around The Political World, joins us to discuss the upcoming Trump Trial, changes in the Freedom Caucus, and a sneak peak of John's new podcast.

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Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Faced Paul America. I'm Beowulf Rockland. Facepaulamerica dot Com is, as always
where you can go for more informationabout the show. Welcome, Thank you
so much for being here. Youknow I've got my head this week on
jury matters. Yes, you know, I've been It's been I think twenty

(00:31):
some years since I've been called forjury duty, and you know, I'm
calling it each day and finding outthe next day whether I have to attend
or not. So that's that's verymuch where my head is. And oh
wait, wait, there's there's someother like jury oriented thing going on.
I'm trying to remember what it is. Oh, yes, that's right.

(00:54):
It's the first criminal trial of theUnited States President. Oh my goodness,
how could I I've forgotten about that, And here to discuss it with me
is John Rothman, the host ofAround the Political World with John Rothman,
as well as the new podcast cohosted with Lynn Sloan, the Voice of
San Francisco. John. Welcome backto Face Paul America. Thank you so

(01:15):
much for being here, So happyto be here. You know, it's
a real trial, and let's hopeit's not a tribulation as well. Let's
hope. God. So I havebeen scanning the news. The trial is
on as we record this like,preparations are being made, jury is being
selected, and according to what Iread most recently, Trump appears to fall

(01:38):
asleep during his historic hush money criminaltrial. My goodness, the rest of
the country he is fascinated with this, but apparently Trump not so much.
He's got a problem because the oddsare that this is not going to end
well for him. Let's remember,it's not really a hush money trial.
It's a question of legal procedure,what he did, when he did,

(02:02):
and what his lawyers have done aswell. And the most interesting thing is
going to be Michael Cohen. WillMichael Cohen's testimony have a real impact.
My suggestion to you is that itwill, because Michael Cohen is a smart
guy, and not only that,he admitted everything he did wrong. The
problem is Trump won't admit what hedid wrong. So this is the most

(02:23):
exciting news about a former president sinceUlysses S. Grant was arrested for speeding
in his carriage or was it justhis horse through the streets of Washington.
Yes, but arrested but not triedand convicted. Is my recollection. Hold
and listen. This is a sadcommentary on Donald Trump. But this is

(02:44):
just the beginning. You know,later this month the Supreme Court will rule
on the immunity question. I expecthe'll lose there, and I think it's
all downhill from there. Here's hopingbecause we have seen so much and and
just one of the four individual casesso far that he has against him have

(03:05):
actually come to trial so far.Hopefully the others are coming soon. But
it seems like it it's taken anawful long time together to get here,
and so I'm just, oh,no, I want to disagree with you.
I don't think it's a long time. The Watergate break in took place
on June seventeenth, nineteen seventy two. Nixon didn't resign until August ninth,

(03:27):
nineteen seventy four. It was overtwo years. And I want to suggest
to you that this has taken alittle longer. But remember he well a
it's taken it's taken eight years,to be precise, but he was president,
right, and because he's a formerpresident, it created all kinds of
obstacles. But in the end,the wheels of justice may grind slowly but

(03:49):
they grind on well, I hopethey do, and I hope they continue
to grind a pace John because youknow, there's a there's a clock tick
in here and criminal case, nocriminal case were you know, heaven forbid
Donald Trump to in again the presidencyof the United States. Things would become

(04:09):
immeasurably more complicated. And I certainlyhope that this will serve as a current.
He has the power to pardon forfederal crimes, but not for state
crimes, So this is something thatis not going away, and he can't
harden himself if he were to becomepresident, well, I mean we would
that would be a There are somany interesting situations that arise as a result

(04:32):
of all the precedents that former PresidentTrump has broken, and it's just it's
fascinating to scan through all of this. What is the jury pool going to
be like, has Trump violated hisgag order? Will he be fine for
that? What is to become ofthe threats, the bomb threats that have
been made against District Attorney Alvin Bragg. There are innumerable things that come as

(04:58):
a result of this, and I'msure that that you will be discussing this
throughout the week on around the politicalworld, because certainly the locus of the
political world, at least in theUnited States, will be on Donald Trump
and his cases and specifically this oneman. Man, it won't just be
this, It'll also be on whatAlabama does. Will the Alabama legislature rescind

(05:23):
the eighteen sixty four law Arizona?I believe what did I say? Alabama?
Oh? I'm sorry, you know, I guess. Hey, there's
stuff going on in Alabama too,quite quite a bit. I mean,
like the Arizona law. That'd beinteresting to see whether or not Governor Hobbs's
decision will have any impact. Andshe's calling for the repeal as well.

(05:46):
It's the Republicans that are the obstacle. So we've got and yes, you're
right about the reason why I saidAlabama is there a number of cases depending
on Alabama that are equally significant.So all these issues continue to plague us
and grow. Can we shift tothe international situation please? And I wanted
to say a word. Israel wasattacked by Iran. This is the first

(06:08):
time that Iran has directly attacked thesovereign state of Israel. The Israelis are
now debating how to respond. Letme point out that the whole world sided
with Israel. Everyone has sided withIsrael on this. What Iran has done
is completely irresponsible and dangerous to thesecurity of the Middle East. Let me
point out that Saudi Arabia and Jordanand the Arab Emirates are all backing Israel.

(06:31):
It's an unprecedented situation. The Israelisnow have to make a decision about
how to respond, and as weare talking now, that debate is going
on in the Israeli cabinet and wewill have to see what they do.
One thing is certain. The Israelishave said to the Iranians, you hit
us, You're going to be hit, and the United States stood four square

(06:55):
behind Israel. Everybody should be awarethat whatever policy difference is main relation to
Gaza. When it comes to securityof the state of Israel, the United
States and Joe Biden's words, hasIsrael's back. What was fascinating is Donald
Trump said if he were president,this never would have happened, no way,
And it is amazing. What wouldn'thave happened if Donald Trump were president

(07:15):
of the United States, The Russianswould never invaded Ukraine. Now there many
many things. He would have madea deal. He would have made a
fantastic deal with both sides. I'msure I know. I'm glad to see
you've got that down, Pat.What is also interesting for me at this
moment is what the House of Representativeswill do. Will Speaker Johnson bring forward
the resolution to provide funds for Israel, Ukraine and Taiwan, And will Lee

(07:41):
Freedom Caucus, which has veered sofar to the right in the Republican Party,
will lay back Speaker Johnson? Mighthis tenure as Speaker be shortened?
There are a whole series of questionshere that are absolutely intriguing, and it
was so many things to juggle theywill. We are having a hard time
keeping track of everything. But Ican tell you that this is going to

(08:05):
be another question. If the fryis raised, who lost Ukraine? We
can lay it squarely at the feetof the Republicans. Will that be a
difference in the campaign? No one'stalking about it. But remember all the
people who are Eastern European, wholive in the Midwest, who have solidly
back Ukraine in its battle. Theseare people who are natural Trump constituents.

(08:26):
Will they support Republicans If the Republicanssell out Ukraine. This is going to
be another critical issue. Indeed itwill be. And I would say with
regard to the Freedom Caucus, itis possible if you are turning so far
to the right as they are,that you just end up going around and
around in a circle and not gettinganywhere. And I tend to think that

(08:48):
is rather what the Freedom Caucus hasdone, because caucus they are, but
freedom a man not so much.It really is a shame the that they
and Trump have pulled the Republican Party. As you and I have discussed on
many occasions, I am fascinated andconcerned and with the fact that today,

(09:11):
as the Supreme Court begins its deliberations, Justice Clarence Thomas is not there.
He was absent from the Supreme Courtsession, not even present on zoom as
sometimes ill members of the Court are. What are your thoughts about that?
Because we are entering an election yearand if his health were to fail,

(09:33):
if he were to be absent,it makes one think of what happened in
the year twenty twenty. What areyour thoughts of this? John Well,
if there were a vacancy, letme remind you that the Senate confirms a
nominee that Mitch McConnell would not beable to obstruct as he did after Ruth
Bader Ginsburg died. I would expectthat President Biden would immediately advance a name,

(09:58):
and that name would be earned bythe Senate after appropriate hearings. But
I want to also suggest you wehave to watch Clarence Thomas very carefully because
he is still a member of theSupreme Court. He is still as far
as we know, active. Wedon't know the reason why he is absent.
Will he recuse himself in terms ofthe pending court decisions affecting Donald Trump.

(10:20):
All of these questions are up inthe air. But I would suggest
to you that if there were avacancy for any reason on the Supreme Court,
that President Biden and his team wouldmove expeditiously to fill that vacancy,
and they have the votes to doit well, I would certainly hope.
So. I would be a littlebit concerned by Senator's cinema and mansion and

(10:48):
under those circumstances, what sort oftrouble they might cause, because they have
not exactly demonstrated what I would considerto be loyalty to the Caucus or to
the president. But I really believethe Democrats control the Senate in terms of
numbers, and I believe that thatis what the outcome would be. I

(11:16):
always remember the fact that Merrick Garland, the Attorney General of the United States,
would have been on the Supreme Courthad not Mitch McConnell said, Oh,
no, we've got to wait forthe next president and so forth.
Yeah, he attributed it to Biden, saying, you know, quote taking
Biden as a senator out of contextand claiming there was some Biden rule that

(11:39):
you could not put forward a newSupreme Court nominee during a presidential election year,
which he promptly violated in a twentytwenty when the situation came up for
him. What hypocrisy? Could itbe? Hypocrisy in the Senate. So
that's another issue which we are goingto have to cross. The survival of

(12:01):
Speaker Johnson is going to be anothercritical issue. Who will succeed Mitch McConnell
yet another issue. And the Republicanshave to demonstrate to the American people they
can govern, and they are notproving that by their actions at this point.
Yeah, it really seems like theydo not care to govern. They
merely care to disrupt that seems tobe there. And at this point,

(12:22):
yes, absolutely absolutely. You know, I saw a fascinating article in a
politico dot com the title of whichis Democrats descend on Chicago as specter of
sixty eight convention looms. Now,the Democrats are going to be holding their
national convention in Chicago, and asyou and I have discussed a number of

(12:43):
times on this podcast, nineteen sixtyeight was a very turbulent year for the
Democrats, the Democratic Party, andparticularly at their convention, which saw massive
protests and massive police response. I'mwondering, as the Democrats prepare this year,

(13:05):
what your thoughts are about what couldhappen and do we see any sort
of repeat in the offing in termsof the protests that could coalesce around the
Democratic Party this year in their convention. There's no question that protests will take
place both of the Democratic and theRepublican national conventions in Chicago. The specter

(13:28):
of nineteen sixty eight, Remember thechant the whole world is watching. Yes,
and we remember vividly, those ofus who were old enough the impact
of what happened in Chicago. Idon't think it will be that bad.
But I have to tell you therewill be mobilizations by a whole host of
people in those convention cities, andwhat kind of controls are put on in

(13:50):
those cities is going to be veryinteresting to watch. Yeah, we don't
exactly have a mayor daily in powerat this point. We have a pretty
I don't know, that might beeven more interesting. But Brandon Johnson,
who is a very progressive, veryyou know, I would say left wing

(14:11):
mayor in charge of I mean thatcould be another issue in which perhaps protests
are not as contained as they mightotherwise be. I think they'll be contained.
I think it'll be a far morecontrolled situation than we can anticipate.
There may be a lot of shouting, but no mayor of Chicago, no
city of Chicago, is going toallow the kind of demonstrations that took place

(14:33):
in nineteen sixty eight, which weredesigned to really disrupt the process. And
this was that was a convention thatwas deeply divided, remember, because the
Vietnam War was a critical issue.Bobby Kennedy had been assassinated, Eugene McCarthy,
George McGovern, they were all involvedin this process. And I really
believe that Bell's got a handle onit. Both Republicans and Democrats are concerned

(14:58):
about what could happen in the conventioncities. So I have every expectation that
they're proper controls in both situations.What are your recollections of that year,
especially around the Democratic Convention. Imean, what do you remember, you
know, watching this on TV?What were your responses? I know you

(15:20):
were actively, you know, workingwith President Nixon at the time on his
campaign. I was, and Iarrived, I'd been abroad, I'd been
in Israel for the summer. Icame back that week in Chicago and witnessed
on television what was happening. Italked with my friends in Chicago at the
time. It was it was profoundlydisturbing. But remember, the Vietnam War

(15:45):
was a polarizing issue that was almostbeyond the comprehension of those of us.
And remember that the Democrats were grieving. They were grieving the loss of Bobby
Kennedy, they were grieving the lossof Martin Luther King, Martin um that
they were grieving the loss of somany different aspects. And the Yippies,
You remember the Yippies, They hadno particular regard for any kind of order.

(16:12):
I don't think we're in that position, at least I hope we're not.
The Jerry Rubins are no longer thedominant people when it comes to these
kinds of street demonstrations. It's adifferent era. But you know, bail
if I could be wrong, butI can't tell you one thing. They're
going to gear up in Chicago likethey've never geared up before for crowd control.

(16:33):
Yeah, no, I certainly don'tdoubt that. It will be interesting
to see. I noted, youknow, checking out the news in your
neck of the woods that were therewere massive protests or at least enough to
close down freeway. So I don'tperhaps your practices before. When the Republican
Invention took place in San Francisco,there were demonstrations here in San Francisco as

(16:55):
well, and people forget that becauseit wasn't as disruptive. So we'll just
have to wait and see. ButChicago has already had the Democratic Invention.
Hosted a previous Democratic Invention in Chicagoand it went off pretty well, So
I expect expect everything will be asit should be. But you know what,

(17:17):
that's what makes politics so interesting.It is nobody knows it is indeed,
and as the host of Around thePolitical World with John Rothman, I'm
sure you will delve into these issues. I was wondering if you could tell
us a little bit more about yournew podcast, co hosted with your former
producer from kg O, Lynn Sloan, about the podcast, The Voice of

(17:41):
San Francisco. What are you goingto be looking at? What sorts of
issues are you going to be dealingwith? I would love to hear more.
I've only done three for them sofar, but The Voice of San
Francisco is put together by Susan DyerReynolds, who was the editor of The
Marina Times, and Herb Kane's daughterin law, Melissa, is involved,
and a whole group of us.Lynn Sloane, my former producer at KGO,

(18:03):
is helping with the production end,and the idea will be to focus
on issues. So let me giveyou an example. The first one we
did was on oj Simpson because Iknew Ojay here in San Francisco prior to
his fame and fortune, and soI was able to reflect on my feelings
about the death of OJ Simpson.We also dealt as I told you today,
with a bicycle coalition and their powerhere in San Francisco. Should streets

(18:29):
be closed? What does that mean? So we're dealing with a variety of
issues. One other issue we dealtwith, which is becoming a national issue,
is ranked choice voting. And I'mvery much opposed to ranked choice voting.
I think it distorts the process.So all of these issues, and
every day Monday through Friday, Iwill do seven to ten minutes dealing with
a local San Francisco issue or aconcern that I have about the quality of

(18:53):
life in the Greater Bay area.So we're going to touch on all of
these issues. Education matters will bea particular interest to me. Recruiting new
teachers will be important, question ofpolice forces being up to what they should
be. There will be a wholehost of issues which we're going to deal
with. There was a headline onthis morning's chronicle about police chases which are

(19:15):
leading to record fatalities. And asI was remarking to Lynn, we worked
with my colleague, like colleague,the wonderful Gen Burns, and his whole
thing was opposing these kinds of policechases. So every day I will reflect
on those issues and others will bechiming in with their point of view,
and our hope is that the Voiceof San Francisco will become the forum which

(19:37):
San Francisco needs now that there's notalk radio in the city. Indeed,
that's the goal and good luck withthat. And as a former resident of
and a frequent visitor to the SanFrancisco Bay Area, I will definitely be
listening to that and keeping track ofall the local issues because truly are there
are fewer and fewer news sources inthe San Francisco Bay Area that produce original

(20:02):
content and certainly that process the issuesin a thoughtful and deep way as you
always did on KGO. So Iwill truly be original content. And let
me remind you we are in amayor's race. We have a number of
key candidates for mayor who are potentiallyquite shape the future of the city,

(20:22):
so we're addressing their issues as well. We'll do interviews the whole nine yards.
So I am looking forward to beingable to have a positive impact,
excellent on the future of this greatcity. And Beowulf, I appreciate very
much or putting in a plug foraround the political world with John Rothman,
but also for the Voice of SanFrancisco. Please look for both podcasts on

(20:45):
a podcasting platform near you. John, it is always a pleasure to have
you with us on face Palm America. Thank you so much for being here.
Always my pleasure. Beilwoff, thankyou, thank you so much for
listening to us today on facepalm America. Faceball America is produced by two Squared
Media Productions. You can go thereand find out more about the company and

(21:07):
the folks who produce it are AceElson and Rosabel Hine. Thank you so
much to them, and until nexttime, enjoy the day.