Church Spying On Polygamists & Turning Them Over To The Government

Church leaders were determined to distance the Church as far as possible from those who persisted in the practice on the Church’s periphery and make it apparent to everyone, both inside and outside the Church, that polygamy was no longer acceptable. These leaders influenced stiffer laws against polygamy and initiated surveillance to discover polygamists or would-be polygamists within Church ranks and provided their evidence to the state. Understood in this light, it is no surprise that the Fred E. Curtis papers, files of an L.D.S. bishop, were given to the Utah State Attorney General. Perhaps then it also no surprise that these files have been recently reactivated within the offices of the current Utah Attorney General.  

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Episode Transcript

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Faithful Saints is dedicated to promoting truthand correct principles based on the Gospel of
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Visit us at Faithful Saints dot comfor more. Two thousand one Salt

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Lake Sun Stet Symposium, Session twosixty three Reporting Curtis Papers, LDS Church
Surveillance of Pellabenalists Buildings nineteen thirty sevennineteen fifty four. Participants Billyn Watson and
B. Michael Quinn. Afternoon.This is Session two sixty three The Fred
Curtis Papers, LDS Church Surveillance ofFundamentalist Mormons nineteen thirty seven to fifty four.

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My name is Bob Frame. I'mfrom Lincoln, Nebraska. That's one
of those gentile college towns out therein Mission Field, I believe they call
it here in Actually, I'd liketo dispel unfounded rumors here on the wast
Edge front that the Good Lord watchescollegiate football on Saturdays, either in Ute

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Stadium or Cougar Stadium. The factis he watches them in Memorial Stadium just
down the street for me, wherethe Huskers have only lost one game in
the last fourteen years. That wasa mistake. I understand the Almighty took
a rest break that afternoon, buthe really does like to watch football there.

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I knew nothing about the Fred Curtispapers until I read the preliminary program
myself, so I'm anxious to hearmary Ann T. Watson's sharing with us
this afternoon. Mary Ann is aco author of Voices in harm Many the
contemporary women celebrating plural marriages. Assome of you undoubtedly know and are probably

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here because of Mary Anne's a professionalgenealogist, a graduate of LDS Business College,
along to the Mormon History Association,the Utah Historical Society, and certainly
not the least of her accomplishments isshe is the mother of nine eight sons

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and a daughter plus a grandson.Marian's traveled extensively in Mexico and speaks Spanish,
and we look forward to hear fromher about the Fred Curtis papers.
Following her paper, we'll hear fromrespondent Mike Quinn, who undoubtedly needs no

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introduction to most of you. Hisextensive bio and credens would take me half
an hour to last. There's threeor four of his books right outside the
door. And I'm sure a numberof you've had the privilege of meeting and
hearing from Mike Quinn. And sowithout further ado, i'd like to hear

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from Mary Anne Watson. My fault, I guess I can hold that one

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good afternoon that reminds me of myradio at home. Get you close to
it and it buzzes. I'm reallypleased to have Mike Quinn here today responding
to this. I think he's probablythe most well qualified person to speak.

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It has to be on in orderfor it to go into the recording system,
but I don't know. So therewe go, okay. I think
that he's undoubtedly probably the most wellqualified person to speak. Address my paper.
The papers down at BYU, theJ. Ribn Clark papers. He

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has, as you well know,has written books, and I understand his
writing more. And some of thedocuments with which he's worked with are probably
carbon copies of the ones that Ihave seen. I'll just go right ahead.
Housed in the Utah State Archives asa portfolio of papers labeled simply Freddie

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Curtis, and this is a photocopyof the outside of the portfolio. They
are part of the collection of thepolygamy investigation files formerly in use by the
Attorney General's Office from the nineteen thirtiesto the nineteen sixties. Okay, this

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portfolio warrants inspections for two reasons.First, a bishop of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints,fred Eke Curtis, created these records.
Secondly, the presence of these LDSchurch records in the Utah Attorney General's Office
files encouraged more than passing curiosity.What is in these files? Why were

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they created, why were they archivedin the Attorney General's files, and how
did they get there? And finally, what is their significance? Perhaps the
context in which Freddie Curtis's files werecreated should be examined first. The Freddy
Curtis papers should probably be viewed withinthe framework of Mormonism and transition, a
term corned by historian Thomas g.Alexander, referring to the first fifty years

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after the church officially abandoned pooral marriage. During this period eighteen ninety to nineteen
thirty, Mormons largely transformed from adistinctive body of religious people striving to maintain
a unique identity in the face oftremendous national opposition into a class just like
quote just like everyone else unquote.More specifically, the ld S Church evolved

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quote from a society that idealized polygamyto one that, with equal commitment,
exalts the traditional monogamous home unquote.Still, for many Mormons, the transition
was a time of extraordinary ambiguity,especially in light of many faithful church members
in hierarchy who continued to quietly marryand polygamy for at least fourteen years following

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the church's eighteen ninety Manifesto. Asmall but persistent minority, though deeply committed
to the church, believed God hadprovided a way for continued plural marriage and
refused to adjust their beliefs in orderto accept the call to mainstream adaptation.
Since the church viewed any re emergenceof polygamy as an obstacle in its transition

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toward acceptance by the nation, excommunicationof members involved in new plural marriages became
routine by the mid nineteen teens.Church president Heber J. Grant, whose
administration began in nineteen eighteen, wasvehemently opposed to continued plural marriage. Under
his leadership, polygamy became a paradox. Those who had lived it in the

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eighteen hundreds could be considered righteous andvirtuous, whereas any who presumed to enter
new plural marriages in the twentieth centurywere licentious, adulterous, and apostate.
It was the latter phase of theChurch's efforts to redefine celestial marriage and the
role of polygamy that Freddy that theFreddie Curtis's Papers came into existence. The
Freddy Curtis Papers our surveillance evidence,Comprising several hundred documents. The file contains

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numerous small slips of paper that canget somebody to do my overheads for me,
He can just so, numerous smallslits of paper with handwritten notes,

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full sized pages of typewritten lists,a small collection of newspaper clippings, bundles
of household bills and receipts, andcopies of correspondence dating from nineteen thirty eight
to nineteen fifty four. The filesgive evidence that Freddie Curtis was appointed apparently
beginning sometime in nineteen thirty seven ornineteen thirty eight, to observe suspected persons

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on their household in his vicinity whoexpressed a continued belief in or who had
been heard to preach and or practiceplural marriage. Curtis was probably selected on
the basis that the Hawthorne Ward boundariesincluded suspects homes where gatherings takes place.
Bishop Curtis was instructed to provide hisevidence to the church's first Presidency and to
the churches presiding Bishopric, who thencoordinated with him in contacting bishoprics of other

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wards concerning church members under suspicion.Curtis also worked with the Salt Lake City
Police Department, whose cooperation had beenobtained. As mentioned before, His records
eventually became part of the Utah AttorneyGeneral's polygamy investigation files. These files are
compelling for several reasons. The extremedetail contained in the papers reveals thousands of

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hours of church authorized surveillance that continuedat least until nineteen forty four, with
some indications that ongoing surveillance for someyears afterward. That files provide insight into
the practices, policies, and institutionalattitudes of the Church of Jesus Christ of
latter Day Saints toward twentieth century fundamentalistMormons, whom they considered dissidents and apostates.

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Further, they corroborate fundamentalist Mormon historywith advancing dates coinciding perfectly with accounts
as reported in primary and secondary fundamentalistsselected for this review. The Freddie Curtis
Paples signal that the nineteen thirties.In the nineteen thirties, the Church of
Jesus Christ had begun a pragmatic andsystematic approach to discover members who might advocate

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or practice plural marriage and purge themfrom the church through excommunication. These files
also evidence church and government collaboration forthe purpose of legal prosecution. Three other
selected sources were primarily used for thispaper. The first was a chapter from
J. Ryben Clark, The Churchyar'sby D. Michael Quinn, which draws

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heavily from Clark's papers and correspondence.I'm going to skip over some of this
information about these other things. Thesecond source, I need to say this
though. Clark's first assignment in hischurch calling as a member of the first
Presidency, was to draft a statementcondemning renegade polygamy. The result was the
Church's official statement of nineteen thirty three, which was dubbed the Final Manifesto.

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Fourteen pages fourteen printed pages in length, it was the longest denunciation the Church
has ever officially published against polygamy.President Grant then gave Clark a mandate to
suppress the practice of polygamy, andPresident Clark went at it with a vengeance.
The second source consulted for this reviewwas the diary of Joseph Flinean Jessop,

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and the third source was the fundamentalistMormon periodical publication Truth, which began
circulation in nineteen thirty five under thedirection of Joseph W. Musser. I'm
skipping some of the biographical information onboth Jessup and Musser for the sake of
time. The Freddie Curtis papers,together with these sources, reveal an intriguing

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story inside has given in to twodivergent paths, the fundamentalist Mormon effort during
the middle of the last century topreserve what they considered to be original Mormonism
and the LDS Church plan of accommodationtowards mainstream American culture. Freddie Curtis sometimes
identified or quite often actually as fredE. H. Curtis had no polygamous

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ancestry. He was born Frederick EvelynHopewell Curtis November fifteenth, nineteen hundred and
nineteen hundred in Mercer, Twilla County, Utah, the oldest first generation English
immigrant Mormons. In nineteen thirty three, Curtis was called to serve as a
bishop in the Hawthorne Ward of theGranite Stake in Salt Lake City. Four

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years later, early in nineteen thirtyseven, Bishop Curtis was given a special
assignment from the Church presidency. Thoughwritten instructions have not been found telling Curtis
specifically how to proceed, it isapparent that his primary duty was to observe
the comings and goings of suspected personsat certain homes where it was believed polygamy
related gatherings were being held. Otherswho assisted Curtis and his special mission were

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a brother Ferguson and a Hawthorne Wardhigh priest named George Lund. Was the
credit manager for Standard Furniture Company andapparently drove one of its delivery trucks at
times to conduct surveillance. The FreddieCurtis papers files Freddie Curtis paper's virgin with
handwritten notes written on standard furniture receiptforms or office memos with details about suspected

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fundamentalists. You might want to putthat standard furniture one back up. Mostly
they were wedding or birth announcements,probably copied from local newspapers. Curtis also
copied sought the particular expertise of thefemale private defective. The wife detective defective
is what the other people were.The wife of a former Hawthorne Ward,

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Bishop G. C. Jensen.Sister Jensen was asked to see if she
could get into a fundamentalist meeting,posed as an interest religious investigator. The
plan failed when her neighbor, whowas a regular attendee, recognized her sister,
Mabel Jones. The secretary from thepresiding Bishop's office was assigned to help
coordinate and facilitate communication between Bishop Curtisand other bishoprics. Later, another secretary

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was added so the work would notfall behind. The church authorized network engaged
to what it amounted to full fledgedinvestigation of suspects. The process involved taking
down license plate numbers of all vehiclesparked at or near suspected residences, the
arrival and departure times of the vehicleswere noted. Bishop Curtis and his assistants

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wrote letters to vehicle departments in severalstates to identify car owners. As individuals
became identified and then recognized, theirnames were listed in observation notes, eventually
minutely detailed lists. As you cansee, some of these are arranged by
license plate numbers noted each date eachvehicle was observed. You'll see on that

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one dates out of the side.I've joked before that fundamentalists could reconstruct the
attendance meetings. Who was there bythese papers? Pardon this is the license
point numbers on the left, typewrittenwhen they knew a name, they'd type

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it in next to it, andthen you'll see that the small dates written
in hand, those are the datesthey attended what they considered fundamentalist meetings.
I did find a description of thefundamentalist meetings, and they were Book of
Mormon study classes, sometimes docking andcovenants, just various. There were just

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various kinds of gatherings. Bishop Curtisand his sister let's see local church authorities
outside the Hawthorne Ward area were contacted, informed and questioned regarding suspects, neighbors,
of suspects and their fellow Ward memberswere interviewed. Visitors who paid calls

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at our targeted residence as often becamesuspects as well. Newspaper obituaries, births,
and wedding announcements concerning any members ofthe suspect families were clipped and added
to the files. Garbage cans atsome residences were invaded to obtain copies of
bills and receipts to use as evidence. Suspects were traced if they relocated.
The earliest letter among Freddie Curtis papersas dated October first, nineteen thirty eight.

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It was type written on Hawthorne Ward'sstationary, addressed to the First Presidency
of the Church of Jesus Christ ofLatter day Saints attention President J. Rubin
Clark Junior. The letter began referencingthe case of Hebert K. Cleveland and
his wife, who are holding meetingsat their home having to do with plural
marriage. It included a list ofthirty names and addresses derived from licensed plate

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numbers of cars parked near the residentsthat had been observed during the previous three
weeks whenever a meeting took place atthe Cleveland home. Of course, the
bishop cautioned, we do not knowwhether the owners of these cars have all
attended this meeting. Excuse me fornot putting all the u unquote. The
letter ended with Curtis's promise to continueto investigate the case and provide, as

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per request, another list of carowners. At the end of two weeks,
Jay Rubin Clark wrote wrote back,stating simply that quote, we shall
be very glad to have the informationunquote. Just one month later, Tuesday,
November first, a document titled Reportof the Salt Lake Police Department was
typed on Hawthorne Ward letterhead. Thispolice report was the earliest hard evidence in

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the Freddie Curtis papers demonstrating cooperation betweenchurch and government in an organized effort against
polygamy. Later, I have tosay in this particular context, later evidence
shows that at least two police investigatorswere assigned to work engine conjunction with the
church surveillance. The two officers,according to Bishop Curtis, quote, gathered
a large amount of information. Meanwhile, j. Rubin Clark used his influence

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in other government arenas, even encouragingthe Salt Lake City Public Library to exclude
fundamentally polygamy literature from library holdings,and asking the Salt Lake City Postmaster to
prohibit the mailing of fundamentalist publications.Hebrew K. Clean Cleveland was among the
first to beat his fellowship from thechurch as a result of Curtis's activity.

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Truth magazine reported portions of the churchtrial in which George Lunn testified I was
appointed by the bishop to investigate thesemeetings at brother Cleveland's home about six months
unquote. When Lund was asked byBishop Curtis he knew if they taught plural
marriage at the meeting, Lund answeredno, I don't, only through rumor.
The defendant, Hebrew K. Cleveland, was allowed to question mister Lunn.

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Question, Brother Lund, how doyou know who took charge? I
saw him through the window. Howcould you see him? The blinds were
down, sometimes the window was upand I could see and hear. And
were you on the sidewalk, whichTruth notes was some twenty five feet from
the house, Yes, but Icould both see and hear. Did you
hear plural marriage discussed? No?How did you know there was a woman's

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class? I could see him inthe kitchen. How could you there is
not a window facing the street,and the front door was closed. I
was not on your property. Iwalked on the driveway of the house north
of you. Did you hear pluralmarriage being taught there? No? What
did you hear? I don't remembernow, Brother Lunde, have you ever
known of me telling a lie?No? Have you ever known me to
steal, commit murder, commit littletree? Bearefaltsmen and drunken with liquor, taken

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the name of Lord and vain disturbedthe peace? We first refuse to pay
my just answer, conduct myself otherthan a gentleman and a brother. To
each of which questions the answer wasno. Can you truthfully say anything against
my character, either through personal knowledgeor hearsay? No. The other official
shadow or identified by Truth as abrother, Frederickson, also gave corroborating evidence

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against Cleveland. He stated as hisopinion, however, quote that the character
of blood Brother Cleveland was beyond reproachunquote. At the end of the trial,
Bishop Curtison's counselors met privately a fewminutes and then returned him with her
to decision that Cleveland was to behis fellowship. Truth declared the whole affair
as quote, high handed and irregularprocedure wholly bereft of the spirit of the

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Lord and of the rules and theregulations of the Church. Elder Cleveland's trial
was only the beginning. Curtis soonproduced a second list of eighty three names
and addresses. Within six months,excommunications were occurring frequently systematically. The church's
first presidency required an oath of loyaltyfor those investigated who wished to have their

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names cleared. Although President Clark didnot originate the idea, Quinn suggests Quote
Reuben's experience in overseeing the Justice Department'sactivity against suspected subversaries during World War One
predisposed him to favor of church widerequirement for suspected fundamentalists. The oath,
called the Affidavit, required individuals tofix their signature to a document that stated,

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in part, I solemnly declare andaffirm that I, without any mineral
reservation whatsoever, support the President andApostles of the Church. That I repudiate
any intimation of any one of thePresidency and Apostles of the Church as living
a double life, and that Idenounced the practice an advocacy of plural marriage.
And that I am myself am notliving in such alleged marriage relationship repeatedly

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decried these loyalty Elson especially objected totheir selective enforcement as part of the church's
implied policy of forced unanimity in sustainingchurch leaders, much to President's President Clark's
dismay, those being watched were immediatelyaware of the surveillance. March twenty one,

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nineteen thirty nine diary entry of JosephL. Jessup states, attended our
priesthood class, our numbers increasing spiserat every meeting night watching us. Somebody
is evidently worried over our movement.In another entry, he described the typical
situation in more detail. Quote,each Tuesday night I attend our priestoo classic
Cleveland spy is sent by bishops orconstantly on the watch, but refused to

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come in and brazenly can fire againstthose who attend by taking auto license numbers
and noting every person who attends,then reporting to their higher up authorities who
call to trial, mock trial allthey can get to and are excommunicating every
person. Thus called for their beliefin defense of plural marriage. A few
weeks later, he recorded a verysimilar entry. I'll repeat that one as

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the frequency of excommunications escalated. JosephilJessup expressed his exasperation those spies in this
ungodly procedure are doing all they canto intimidate the Saints. Truth declared the
entire situation as quote shades of Missourimobocrats unquote, and as being contrary to
LVS. Scroucier. It asks,quote, is the Church re enacting the

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outrages of the Holy Crusaders? Unquote. In June nineteen thirty nine, a
discussion ensued to consider whether or notto consider the meetings. This is among
the fundamentalists. Brother Joseph Muster askedthe attendants at these classes if they would
rather stop the meeting. Vigorous speecheswere made and contending for their just rights
to meet this way and for theirbelief in the truth. Let come what

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may must A announce the consensus.This is the beginning of the end,
and the meetings will go on.The featured editorial in Truth's next issue July
nineteen thirty nine, was a stingingassault on the Church's surveillance and excommunication procedures.
It began the dread disease hysteria excommunicatus has again broken out in some

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of the words and stakes of zion. Symptoms include mild wulsion to independent thought.
Affected officials of the church have hallucinationsof members of the flock thinking and
even praying for light and knowledge withoutspecial permission. Forward thinking saints must read
no books or pursue no inquiry pretendingto gospel themes not directly recommended by the

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leaders. Hatred for all that isgood and sound develops as the diseased advances
into its final stages, in whichthe patient will tolerate in his flock no
thought nor intimation on religious dogma notin conformity with its own. The following
month, Truth identified j Rymin Clarkas the general authority responsible for quote clearing

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the community of polygamous teachings and living. Since Church's surveillance was hardly subtle,
it is not surprising that occasional dialogoccurred between the watchers and the watched.
Bishop Curtis reported the comments of fundamentalistsRadered Francis Darter, whom he presumed mistakenly
to be the leader of the fundamentalists. Darter had complained that quote, a

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standard furniture truck and a mister Lundwere following him, and that people were
checking on him, and he wassuspicious if a hold up and was going
to report it to the police department. Joseph L. Jessop told another of
another interaction with Curtis. One evening, Jessop was approaching the Cleveland home to
attend a meeting when he saw FrancisM. Darter engaged in conversation with Bishop

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Curtis. Darter introduced the bishop toJessop, who described the exchange. After
a few minutes, my brother inlaw, brother Axel Forest, joined us,
brother daughter left us and went intothe house. Bishop Curtis claimed to
know what we were discussing in therethrough somebody who reports to them, a
woman in particular. I said tothem, quote, if you would be

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a real witness of what is goingon in there, come in and don't
just sit out there I quote,to which he replied, I wouldn't step
a foot on that property. Iwouldn't follow you or any one in there
an inch. I then said tohim, I'm not asking you to follow
us, nor even believe the thingthat is said. I'm just asking you,
for the sake of decent principle,to know firsthand and be a real
witness of this affair you are soconcerned about, come in. I have

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been one of the instructors of thisclass, and I'm getting this invitation.
Then he said, no one hasa right to No member of the church
has a right to go in there. Only those who have been excommunity Katid
had a right. Of course,the Constitution grants the right, but the
church does not. Mister Curtis repeatedlysaid that quote Muster hasn't whole thing straight

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in the Truth Magazine unquote, andquote you better, you bet, he'd
better not say that either have beena window peeper, nor any of you
better not say it either. Wehave a libel suit being prepared now.
And if he said I've been there, he'll be He'll face a big libel
suit. We're just waiting for sucha statement. Unquote jesse jessep said.
The bishop hurried away, and thenhe and Brother Force attended the class and

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reported some of these statements to theclass. Truth Magazine compared the observation activities
with anti Mormon tactics of the eighteenhundred if there is one being the early
church. Members of the church weretrained to train to entertain a supreme contempt
for it was a spotter, hisnosy proclivities not only volunteering to act as

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a witness, but all supposing asoops as a prosecutor in kate. In
such cases, despite fundamental subjections,surveillance continued. Unabated notations in Bishop Curtis's
papers indicate that Joseph L. Jessop'shome was watched, especially during the fall
and winter of nineteen thirty nine andforty. I could go into some more

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information about the situation, but it'snot as relevant as some of the other
information. When Bishop Curtis informed BishopBricks and other lds Wards about suspected fundamentalists
within word boundaries, not all wereanxious to excommunicate those who might be sympathizers
or believers in continued plural marriage.A year after the investigations began, Bishop

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Curtis complained to President Clark that quote, it seems that we are still having
considerable trouble with bishops and state presidentsand giving them to handle these people.
Anything you could do to assist uswould be most sincerely appreciated. Another a
problem rose from the use of licenseplate numbers to identify polygamy sympathizers. Joseph
A. Worthlin of the Presiding BishopricsOffice wrote to Bishop Curtis telling him of

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members of the church who had cometo end to his office shocked to find
their names connected their name connected withthe plural marriage meetings. Worland complained,
quote, it causes some embarrassment inthis office when a mistake is made nute.
He recommended a policy to check onthe licensed cars of all The license
of all cars twice challenges a roadfor Curtis when he won a new police

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chief, a mister Vetterly replaced obirecord. Early in nineteen forty one,
Bishop Curtis interviewed Police Chief Veterly,who had informed him that quote he did
not know the former police chief hadbeen conducting an investigation unquote. Betterly indicated
that quote the two men who hadbeen making this investigation had been assigned to

(28:37):
other work. Bishop Curtis was carefulto explain to Betterly that the police investigators
had collected some very valuable information.Even though Vetterly responded that quote he wanted
to cooperate in every way possible.Quote, Curtis still suggested to President Clark
that quote possibly a word to ChiefVetterly from a member of the first presidency
would help materially in having this investigationcontinued, as it would be a shame

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for this investigation to be dropped atthis time when so much valuable information has
already been secured. For some unknownreason, however, Betterally did not participate
as Curtis hoped. In August nineteenforty one, Curtis wrote President Clark quote,
since the changing of the Chief ofPolice, we have had no cooperation
whatsoever from him. Chief Futterally promisedfull cooperation. However he has given us

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an une whatsoever. Bishop Curtis wasreleased as Bishop of the Hawthorne Ward,
and the fundamentalist immediately noticed the cessationof his activities. The Truth editorialized,

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it is a noteworthy fact that thequote peeping tom quote operation unquote. Operations
carried on for the past several monthsin which nosey, busybodies agents of the
church were nightly protruding their insolence intothe affairs of certain of the saints,
have stopped. This is a stepin the right direction. Let there be
no peeping, no spying, nosneaking about people's windows after dark. Assuming

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the surveillance mission would be part ofthe new bishop's duties. Curtis turned over
the entire and polygamy investigation file tohis replacement and then notified President Clark.
Upon learning this, Clark immediately arrangeda meeting with Curtis. Although Curtis was
no longer bishop, he was instructedby the first Presidency to continue the investigation
of these special people. Although Curtiswas no longer Bishop, Jay Ribbon Clark

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soon for it furnished him with anet list of new polygamists Mark Confidential,
which he obtained from police inspector ObiRecord. Clark requested that Curtis send him

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a complete summary of those who havealready been dealt with and those who have
not. Curtis provided the list,naming a total of one hundred and seventy
persons. Of these, thirty twohad been investigated in Claric, fifty eight
had been excommunicated or disfellowship, andseveral others were still under the investigation.
It named twenty four new individuals thathad not been previously reported to the presiding

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Bishopric. The moment Curtis renewed hisefforts, Sentimentalist Knew It for Truth Magazine
lashed out to our profound surprise andregret. The official snoopers have again appeared
in the scene. They were observedtaking the license plate licensed number of cars
and preparing to blacklist honest people.Why these spying snooping miscreants should continue their

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offensive nosing is an unsolved mystery.One would think that common decency we would
appeal to their reason, but nothing, it seem, is too low for
them to stoop to. We aretold they are on the payroll of the
church. We hope this is nottrue, yet the funds of the church
have been pledged for this purpose.President Taylor called this men class of men
skunks, and now the tithes ofthe Saints may be used in keeping up

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the stink and herd. Gentlemen wouldnot follow such an unsavory profession. If
our critics want to know the natureof the deliberations in our regular Tuesday evening
study class, let them come inand deport themselves as ladies and gentlemen.
Many have done so, and theirpresence have been appreciated. We have invited
these official snoopers time and again tojoin in the gatherings. Are they afraid

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or are they just playing yellow?I might note that not only in the
Freddie Curtis papers, but among fundamentalsseveral sources. There were numerous invitations where
they were given to come in,but in a paper that looks like it
was preparation for a trial someone's trialin the church. The front page was

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missing in the papers. It indicatedthat because one couple had been turned away
from a Fundamentalist meetings, it wasproof that they were quote closed meetings.
As time progressed, Curtis's letters tothe first Presidency indicated increasing alarm at the
growing numbers. He wrote, itis surprising to see how many young people

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are joining this group. There werea total of seventy people seventy three people
attending in January seventh, nineteen fortyone. About sixty percent were young people
under thirty years of age. Thisgroup is growing by leaps, and by
August nineteen forty one, Curtis's apprehensionseemed almost a panic. This group is
growing by leaps and bounds, andthe attendance of the young people is astounding.

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Over one hundred people attend. Newmembers are being introduced each week,
and I have reports of the doctrineof this group being taught in preested quorums
by award, Teach and many otherofficers in the various wards. He pleaded
with Clark for a personal meeting,writing, we would like very much to
explain to you the seriousness of thissituation. We feel that this is that
this the way this organization is growing. Something must be done. Indeed,

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something was being done. President Clarkhad already stated that criminal prosecution should begin
as soon as possible. Clark's intentionscame to full fruition with the nineteen forty
four Boyden Crusade. This campaign wasa massive coordination of federal, state,
and local law enforcement that resulted inthe arrests of forty six men and women

(34:35):
with When appeals failed. For thoseconvicted, fifteen men spent six months in
the Utah State penitentiary, and toArizona men were imprisoned at the federal penitentiary.
It is noteworthy that in nineteen fortyfour and subsequently President Clark denied that
he had instigated any legal actions againstthe Famentalists. Others, however, were
not so reticent about admitting church involvement. In October nineteen forty four, Marky

(34:59):
Peterson of the County the Twelve sentan article to the San Francisco News for
publication. Quote, desiring that,now that convictions were obtained, to make
it known to the world that itwas the church that was doing the prosecuting.
He wanted it stated that the membersof this group were not Mormon after

(35:19):
nineteen forty four. The next sequentialpiece of correspondence in the Freddie Curtis papers
is dated March nineteen fifty three,just four months prior to the fifty three
short grades in Arizona. Marky Preterisonwrote Freddie Curtis asking for a list of
all the names and addresses that hemight have on the matter, and a
few more letters passed between them,and that was the end of the papers

(35:40):
that are housed at the UTI AttorneyGeneral's files. Curtis once wrote a PostScript
to President Clark quote, I haveenjoyed my work more than I can tell
unquote. This expression seems to conveyCurtis's general attitude for his special assignment.
However, no clues are found inhis papers that indicate when or who gave
his records to the state. Perhapsthey were given by Freddy Curtis himself or

(36:04):
by one of his superiors, possiblyPresident Ja Rubin Clark or apostle Marky Peterson.
The more important question is why werethey there. The apparent answer is
that the evidence gathered by Freddy Curtisand his assistance, and his assistance and
assistance was used for the prosecution offundamentalist Mormons for at least the nineteen forty

(36:24):
four util polygamy raids, impossibly forother lesser known prosecution. Overall, the
Freddy Curtis papers indicate the LDS Church'sintent to send a strong message to its
members as well as to the nation, that it had completed its transformation into
a monogamous religion and that Mormon polygamyexisted only in its history. Ironically,

(36:45):
the campaign served in the long runto strengthen, rather than to destroy,
the conviction of fundamentalist community regarding polygamy. In the nineteen thirties, there were
only a few hundred fundamentalist Mormons.Today there are an estimated thirty to forty
thousand. Jay Rubin clark Is creditwas credited with recognizing quote that his administrative
suppression of fundamentalist Mormons, which beganhim with his nineteen thirty three official statement,

(37:08):
but actually had actually transformed a ragtagcollection of polygamist sympathizers who value their
church affiliation into a cohesive movement oftru schismatics, whom he considered an actual
threat to the church. Quote.In nineteen forty five, President Clark reflected
that quote, one of the mainreasons why the so called fundamentalists had made

(37:30):
such inroads among our young people wasbecause we had failed to teach them the
truth. This statement was one withwhich fundamentalists could wholeheartedly agree, but from
an entirely different perspective from Clark's.It is no wonder. President Clark encouraged
Latter day Saints to report to thecivil authorities what they knew about current polygamists,

(37:51):
monitored the progress of criminal court casesinvolving polygamists, and during the last
years of his life, took particularcare to ensure that local news blackoutse of
any stories that might give favorable publicityto fundamentalist Mormons. Thank you, Mike.
Do you want to work from thereor come up here? This paper

(38:25):
deals with the surveillance of homes andof individuals by both church and state in
Utah. Ms Watson quoted those whoinvoked the US Constitution's Bill of Rights about
the matter, but freedom of speechand freedom of assembly were not the relevant
issues because they pertained to civil guaranteesof public speech and public assembly, not

(38:47):
to a private organization's limits on speechand meetings, whether public or private.
The First Amendments provision for freedom ofreligion was not the governing principle either,
because it limits the government's ability tointrude on religion. The Constitution does not
protect either government or its citizens fromthe power of religion and churches. The

(39:10):
larger issue is the conflict between twodifferent rights, first the right of an
authority structure to protect its domain,and second, the right of individuals to
meet privately and speak privately about theirdescent from the power structure. In both
religious history and civil history, theformer has usually taken precedence over the latter.

(39:32):
Individuals usually agree with that right untilthey find themselves in conflict with certain
aspects of the power structure. Inthe civil sphere, governments have always asserted
their right to investigate treasonous activities intopunish traders as defined by the government.
Since treason is often difficult to provein societies governed by law and jurisprudence,

(39:55):
governments have also created categories of disloyaltyor subversion or conspiracy, which can be
more easily punished and more easily proved. Private organizations, whether churches or businesses,
have followed that pattern and have inflictedwhatever punishments the civil authority has allowed
them to. From ancient times tothe present. However, various individuals have

(40:20):
disagreed with authority of structures about whatwords and actions constitute disloyalty or subversion,
Whether John of Arc or Martin Luther, or Anne Hutchinson or Martin Luther King
Junior. These dissenters regarded themselves,at least initially, as basically loyal to
the authority structures they criticized, butthe powers that be always resisted because they

(40:45):
recognized a fundamental truth. Descent isalways destabilizing. From the distance of years
or because of personal philosophy, wemay regard such destabilization as a good thing
because it leads to changes that weadmire. But this process has always been
difficult and painful for everyone involved,and the related question is something that no

(41:09):
one knows the answer to. Atthe beginning of descent, will the power
structure unravel or its domain be injured? If this descent goes unopposed. That
question is the basis for repression byevery power structure, whether civil or religious.
That is why democratic governments become undemocraticto their dissenting citizens, and why

(41:35):
religions violate ethical principles when dealing withdissenting members, as well described here in
this paper. And so we nowhave to confront the realities of mss Watson's
case study of this pattern. Itis not a pleasant story. From the
nineteen thirties to the nineteen fifties,the oldiest hierarchy engaged in threats, scare

(41:59):
tact surveillance and punishment of Mormons.It regarded as subversive to the stability of
the church with regard to continuing polygamy. The local official who led this effort
did so with enjoyment, rather thanas of an unpleasant necessity. Hannah errandt
once wrote about the banality of evil, but there is also a banality of

(42:24):
repression. Whether from self righteousness orfrom unquestioning obedience to official instructions, ordinary
people routinely do things that are ethicallydestructive. However, there are those who
are supportive of every act of repressionin defense of an idea or power structure

(42:44):
which they support. Therefore, Iam sure that it is not unity,
that there is not unity in thisaudience about those who are the heroes and
those who are the villains in thisexperience of the Odious Church versus Mormon fundamentalists.
However, the patterns of history indicatethat repression feeds on itself and when

(43:06):
successful, extends into other areas.Thus, rigorous defense against descent often results
in the very thing that the powerstructure seeks to avoid, corruption of the
organization. I leave it to youto decide if this pattern applies here.
Thank you, and we now haveabout fifteen minutes time for questions from the

(43:37):
floor of either of our presenters.Here, I'm going to take advantage of
having the mic right this second andask Mike my own question listening to this,
if my research is correct, memoryaccurate, Mike hero J. Grant
was a polygamist before president of thechurch in nineteen eighteen. Is that correct?

(44:07):
Have your studies research uncovered any personalexperience in his life that made it
apparently important to him in the earlynineteen thirties to issue what some have called
I think the Third Manifesto. Thesecond beame by Joseph F. Smith in

(44:28):
nineteen ninety four. Is there somethingthat happened around that time to have caused
him, in your own research,to suddenly launch this kind of activity.
See, there we go. Itwasn't really a sudden thing. It was

(44:49):
a slow creeping kind of cancer ofrepression that developed in the LDS Church against
those who continued to practice polygamy.And it began with public relations. And
this brigally began much earlier, hadbegun with Lorenzo Snow, and Lorenzo Snow
had given instructions for certain individuals whohad entered into plural marriage to be disciplined.

(45:15):
The irony was that at the sametime, there were marriages that were
occurring by permission of the First Presidency, often performed by apostles. So there
was this ambiguous experience of Mormonism whichwas affecting Hubert J. Grant in a

(45:36):
very personal way. And if wetalk about personal reasons for his adamant approach
to this issue, it's his ownconfusion as an apostle at this time,
and how he finally resolved that hisconfusion was deeply painful for him because he
wanted an heir to carry his nameand because of a variety of tragedies in

(46:04):
his life. All of the sonsthat his plural wives bore to him and
that his legal wife bore to himdied and so he was left with daughters
who he loved, but he didnot want his name to die with him.
And so, during this period whenthere were the public statements by first

(46:24):
of all Wolfred Widruff, then LorenzoSnow, and then Joseph F. Smith
that no, there was no activeor rather authorized polygamy, he was hearing
from apostles of fellow members of hisquorum that in fact, they had received
authorization to perform plural marriage. Andhe was in fact instructed by Joseph by

(46:51):
John Henry Smith in Mexico in eighteenninety seven to perform to plural marriages,
which he did himself. And yethe's torn with this issue of here I
am being commanded to perform these pluralmarriages, which he did, but there's
this statement that he's even and thesestatements are not just for public consumption.

(47:13):
The president of the u of ratherthe president of the church was telling the
apostles in their formal meetings that no, no plural marriages could be allowed.
And yet he had performed them himself. Heber J. Grant had performed them,
and he was hearing the President tellinghim in the temple meeting with the
whole quorum present, these plural marriagescannot be performed anywhere in the world,

(47:35):
and this was a huge problem forhim. He could not sort it out,
but eventually he decided that this wasfor public and not public consumption,
but it was for the official recordsof the Church because the minutes were being
taken. And so he decided thathe was going to marry a plural wife.
And he proposed to one woman afteranother, only to find out she'd

(47:58):
already become the plural wife of somebodyelse, and this was extraordinarily aggravating and
painful for him. And finally heproposed to a woman and she accepted,
and he was on a mission inJapan, and he had proposed to her
during one of his visits to GeneralConference to speak at General Conference, and
he went back to Japan, butin his mind they were engaged to be

(48:22):
married at his next visit to GeneralConference. Well, he got word in
Japan that between the times she hadaccepted him and his next visit to General
Conference that Cali one of his fellowapostles. On the baself Kelly had performed
a marriage uniting her with a anapostle. He might have felt better about

(48:45):
that if it had been an apostle, but it was a state president and
a relative of his as well,and he felt triply betrayed. He felt
betrayed by the woman, He feltbetrayed by Cowley, and he felt betrayed
by his cousin distant cousin. Sowhen it came about, and he was

(49:09):
again on a mission when this occurred, he was in England as a missionary
when it occurred that the Church actedagainst Joseph a premie that Joseph F.
Smith allowed for the Quorum of theTwelve to act against Matthias F. Kelly,
whom he felt had betrayed him,and John W. Taylor in releasing

(49:30):
them from the Quorum of the Twelve. In Hebrew J. Grant's mind,
they had betrayed the Church as wellas him, and despite all of the
inconsistencies, because there all were allthese inconsistencies, and he was always uncomfortable
with it. The way he resolvedit was that in some way the presidents

(49:52):
of the church's formal statements to theQuorum of the Twelve in their temple meetings
and publicly were the real, andeverything that happened had happened privately was false,
was wrong, and that and byimplication, even his action in performing
a plural marriage by instruction of asenior apostle was wrong. And so there

(50:15):
was this huge reservoir of resentment,personal resentment at not ever being able to
have the plural wife who had providehim with the son. This plural wife
provided his cousin or distant cousins withsons. And you know, this was
one further personal aggravation and painful onefor him. So by the time the

(50:36):
fundamentalist movement began to move to growin numbers and to become more public in
terms of publications by some of hiseven relatives. One of them was Heber
Benyon, who had married his sisterin law. I mean, the way
they were related is they had bothmarried sisters, so they were kind of

(50:57):
like sure Tell brothers. And andthe publication by Kubrebnion and others in favor
of continued polygamy continued to aggravate him. And the fact that it was a
rebellion that he recognized as a rebellion, and it seemed to be growing worse.
So it was a cumulative thing.It didn't suddenly happen, and it

(51:20):
had a lot of It was basedin this personal frustration that he had experienced
in his own life, and sowhen he finally took action, he was
held on wheels against the fundamentalists.Thank you questions for either of these folks,
and you may certainly save me fromhaving to try to summarize comment on

(51:46):
question comment. I think as lateas the seventies they were taking license plates
on meetings that were being held athome. So I have a personal experience
of that. In fact, I'vegot to relate a humor sing here.
We had a meeting. Is thisa study group? There's nothing wrong with
it? And we were studying churchhistory, and we had several cars out

(52:07):
in front of my house on HighlandDrive. And we found out later from
a printer who lived two doors downand had a high councilman visit him on
a printing job that Sunday night.Ironically, he was called in because his
license plate number was taken because hewas part close to my house amongst all
the other people that were there,and he was really upset. He did

(52:30):
not know that the church had stoopedto such gestapo tactics. But anyway,
my comment being apparently as late asthe seventies this has been going on.
Do you know of any other methodsand times examples where this surveillance has gone
on against people that they have suspectof or they are trying to investigate.

(52:54):
One other example is I know ofabout four or five different people who were
later cut off the church whose personaljournals just came up missing. So well,
the success of the surveillance techniques ofthe Las Church against fundamentalists in the

(53:15):
nineteen thirties, and as you indicated, it continued a long beyond that became
the pattern for LDS surveillance of everyoneelse that they were suspicious of for one
reason or another by the nineteen seventies, that include those who were suspected of
being gays and lesbians, and sothese very same techniques were used for those.

(53:42):
And they would stake out the gaybars in Salt Lake City and take
down license plates numbers, and thenthey would run them through the in this
case, they would run them throughthe license plate registrations at Brigham Young University
to find out if there were anyBYU students who were parked in front of
the or in the neighborhood of gaybars in Salt Lake, and then they

(54:06):
would expel and excommunicate these students simplyon that basis. Again, it was
very similar. The tactics were similar. Suspicious rather suspicion was in itself enough
to take action. I have anecdotalevidence this I know from even the LDS
Church eventually acknowledged that they were doingthis, So it's not anecdotal. It

(54:27):
wasn't stories being reported to me.But as another group of targeted people were
people who were church employees, whowere regarded whether no matter what it was
that they were suspected of doing,whether it was that they would have coffee
in the Hotel Utah or take adrink at a bar or whatever, the

(54:49):
same tactics of surveillance were used againstthem. Now, of course taking a
drink of coffee in the Hotel Utahpretending it was some else as a tradition,
going back to Jay rubmin imparted ofme to Jay Golden Kimball, but
for going to a bar, andin the nineteen fifties to sixties it was

(55:10):
more difficult to get alcohol and couldn'tbuy it as easily, and so it
was easier to take down license platesnumbers and photograph individuals going in and out
of liquor stores, in and outof bars, and so this was applied
as well to church employees, andthe technical ability from the nineteen seventies forward

(55:31):
of LDS Church Security has increased remarkablybecause they have been directed by former FBI
agents from the nineteen seventies to thepresent, and so that the directors of
Church Security LDS Church Security have beenformer FBI directors or not directors but agents,

(55:54):
and one of them named Bretzing,was a former field officer film director
for Los Angeles. But also manyof their employees are former policeman, former
FBI agents, and then they havea draw on technical so they're not only
trained in their professional background of doingvehicle surveillance foot surveillance, but also they

(56:17):
have technical capabilities of using distant microphonesthat can pick up conversations in buildings.
They don't have to enter your houseto hear your conversation. The technical ability
has existed since the nineteen seventies forhigh powered technical devices often located in a

(56:37):
van that's painted like a cleaning vanor a insect disposal van, or an
ice cream truck to park within afew feet twenty usually about twenty feet of
a house and to be able tohear every conversation in the house. They

(56:58):
don't have to tap phone lines,they don't have to enter the building to
enter, you know, to putin bugs. They can listen to everything
simply from the convenience of a vanthat they happen to be in. And
long distance photography has increased in sophistication, and these have been applied to a
variety of individuals that they suspect ofbehavior that they don't like, when whether

(57:21):
that behavior is gained lesbian, whetherit is a member of the staff of
the Central Headquarters is doing something thatthey don't like, whether it's people attending
Sunstone. If you don't think thatthey have taken down license plates, numbers
of people going into the Sunstone office, or have made efforts to identify everyone

(57:43):
who's attended Sunstone conferences over the lastnumerous years, you underestimate the extent of
their paranoia. They are very paranoidabout a wide variety of people. But
the techniques that have been used againstvarious groups for decades, were used only

(58:06):
against fundamentalists. I think you willhave time for one more. Yes,
question is why Hawthorne Ward for Marianne. I have no idea, just asking

(58:37):
what the connection was. There's theonly in those papers of that any kind
of that connection. But it wasa small town back in those days.
Salt Lake City just wasn't that big. This just happened to be an area
where there were several homes of likeminded people. They had moved there in

(58:57):
the nineteen twenties to get employment fromNathaniel Baldwin in his factory the majority,
and that's why they were basically centeredin that area. Well, I'm sorry,
but my watch says our time isup. We thank our presenters very
much and thank you for attending alot of work to put into that.

(59:24):
How did you stumble a lot ofthis