November 25, 2025 • 44 mins
On this episode of The Federalist Radio Hour, Kevin Slack, associate professor of politics at Hillsdale College, joins Federalist Senior Elections Correspondent Matt Kittle to discuss the role faith played in the colonists' first Thanksgiving and analyze how that monumental event paved the way for the American Revolution.
Check out the six-part “Colonial America: From Wilderness to Civilization” educational series here.
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Check out the six-part “Colonial America: From Wilderness to Civilization” educational series here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
And we are back with another edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. I'm Mad Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at The
Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge.
As always, you can email the show at radio at
the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at fbr LST,
make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and
(00:40):
of course to the premium version of our website as well.
Our guest today is Kevin Slack, Associate Professor of Politics
at Hillsdale College. As we turn our attention to family, friends,
and maybe most importantly food around the Thanksgiving table, let's
reflect on how truly blessed we are to live in
(01:02):
this exceptional republic and consider the colonist who founded and
built it. Kevin, thank you so much for joining us
on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah. I'm really excited about this conversation because we often
talk about foundational principles, and I think that is incredibly important,
particularly in these days when we seem to have lost
our principles in the heat of politics. But I think
it's very important to stop and reflect on the people
(01:37):
as I said before, who built the foundation? Now who
started this exceptional republic? Those colonists and Kevin. Let's begin
there with who the colonists were. I mean, what were
they looking for? What were they escaping from? What did
they dream about? Did they ever could they possibly have
(02:01):
imagined what America is two hundred and fifty years later?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, you know, you have different reasons for migrating to
the colonies, and you know, we think of Thanksgiving and
that's primarily the New England migrants. And you know, you
speak of the principles for colonize it. So I think
you have to consider the various reasons why, you know,
the settlers migrated to the American colonies, and when we
(02:32):
think about Thanksgiving, the primary motive there was faith, and
faith played a major role in the creation. They played
a major role in that settlement. It was the reason
for the settlement of New England. And many of the
English separatists, those are those who wanted to separate from
the Church of England. They've lived in a small English
(02:52):
farming village of Scruby, but they faced persecution. So Queen
Elizabeth and her successor had begun to secute the separatists.
The attendance if any unofficial church resulted in sometimes severe punishments, fines, imprisonment,
there were some that were executed. And so this congregation
(03:13):
then flees to Holland. And this is after a first
failed attempt, but eventually it settled there in Leiden and
they work. They work in the textile industry and in brewing,
very demanding jobs six days a week. And they stayed
there for about twelve years. And I think then we
have the flip side where they realized they were losing
(03:35):
their identity that Leiden was actually a very tolerant place,
the university city, and so by faith they left their
native land to go to Holland. And just of course,
traveling so many miles in what was called adventure, almost desperate,
was another act of faith across the Atlantic. So we
think about one of those primary principles, and that is
(03:57):
freedom of conscience. And that was very year to the
Pilgrims and a little bit later the Puritans. But we
hold that year today.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Indeed, and we think about the difficulties of airline travel
today as we get ready to travel all over the
country for the Thanksgiving holiday, But we have nothing to
complain about compared to what the early settlers experienced. What
was that like that very dangerous voyage.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Well on the voyage itself, and then after the anchor offshore,
about half of the one hundred and two passengers died
the first winter of sickness, diseases like scurvy, exposure to
the elements, and at one point there's only a handful
of pilgrims, less than ten that are healthy enough to
(04:50):
care for the rest. The first governor, John Carver, died
after the winter of that April, but about a month
before that he was able to sign a peace treaty
with the Chief Massasoit. This is the chief of the
Wampanoagu Indians, and that was after in exchange of greetings
and gifts, and that peace lasted for fifty years. And
(05:13):
so it would be William Bradford who was elected the
next governor, and he and one of the colonists, Edward Winslow,
they provided the only two accounts we have of that
first Thanksgiving. But it was very much gratitude for God's
providence in protecting those who remained, in securing a bountiful
(05:36):
harvest for that fall. And that's what we celebrate, is
the first Thanksgiving is these three days of celebration in
collecting the harvest. And I looked up some of those accounts,
one of them by Winslow. He writes, quote, our governor
sent four men fouling, so that we might, after a
(05:56):
special manner, rejoice together after we had gathered the fruits
of our life. And he says in one day that
the men that were sent out they killed as many birds,
and that was to last the company. There were fifty
three pilgrims, to last them a whole week. And Bradford
and Hit his own account, he wrote, they had a
quote great store of wild turkeys, So our eating turkey
(06:18):
isn't violating any kind of a tradition established in that
first autumn feast. And that's where during their recreation, and
this is when they weren't securing their homes for the
upcoming winter, they exercised their arms. So they for weapons.
They had the arvicus and matchlock muskets. And then they
(06:39):
were joined by Chief Massasoit in this early alliance, and
he brought ninety of the Wampanoag warriors, and then he
sent them to kill deer, and so as a gift
to the governor, he gave them five deer. What I
think is fascinating is that that they don't in these accounts,
they don't use the word Thanksgiving. Rather, the days of
(07:02):
Thanksgiving were days of religious observance for prayer and worship,
and not so much the feast that we think of.
And so following this first sixteen twenty one feast, all
of the other colonies would eventually have their own days
of Thanksgiving, and that's where the various political bodies would
(07:23):
call on citizens to thank God for various reasons safe voyages,
military victories, but good weather and harvest. And so the
first official Thanksgiving that's called by Bradford took place in
sixteen twenty three, that's two years after the Pilgrim's arrival,
(07:43):
and they had they had games and food shared with
these the Wampanoid Indian allies. But then it becomes a tradition,
these religious days that are observed and eventually in all
the colonies, and by the end of the sixteen hundreds
all the New England colonies, and usually usually in autumn,
and it was to celebrate the harvest in God's provision
(08:06):
for the settlers.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
It's very interesting to me that the first Thanksgiving first
Thanksgiving week or several days involved Benjamin Franklin's preferred national bird,
and that was the turkey. So we started right away
with our turkey tradition. And Benjamin Franklin never did get
(08:30):
the turkey as the national symbol, of course. But what
is I think more profound is that here in America,
in what became modern day Massachusetts, you have colonists, people
escaping religious oppression, the tyranny of the crown as it
(08:54):
related to you. You described all of those horrible things
that happened to those first Americas while they were citizens
of England, and of course they were still citizens of
England in this new colony. But I can only imagine
just how much how profound it would feel to be
(09:16):
able to celebrate and to thank God in your own
way without the Crown telling you how to do it
or punishing you for how you did it.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yes, And I think what we see is this connection
between self rule that forms in the minds of the
people as well as this pursuit of religious freedom. And
I think that the Pilgrims, who are the separatists wanting
to separate from the Church of England, and later the
Puritans who wanted to purify the Church of England. They're
(09:49):
part of this broader growing spirit driven by a revolt
against religious hierarchy. And we see that in congregationalism, and
that goes hand in hand with Parliament's Parliament's opposition to
the crown under James the First and so and so
(10:09):
you find this congregationalism and self government in the churches
becomes i think a foundation or goes along with self
government in politics. And so it's part of a broader
history of self government. And that's what the Pilgrims and
the Puritans take with them to the New World. And
we find that both in Plymouth Colony and very interesting
(10:34):
in Plymouth Colony that this was this was paid for
by a merchant adventure company. And then when the company
proves to be unprofitable, they don't find gold, they don't
find any of the say the lucrative cash crops for example,
like something like tobacco that would be discovered or planted
(10:54):
later in Virginia. And so those settlers in the sixteen twenties,
eight of them, they actually buy out their own charter
and that means that they own and govern themselves as
a company. And so this agreement that they make with
the initial shareholders, transfers all the company's shares and the
(11:16):
and the debt to the colonists themselves, and it takes
them about twenty years to pay that off. So here
you have you have kind of economics and politics going
hand in hand with the Pilgrims as far as for
as far as their own government. Famously, the Mayflower Compact
is signed by the Pilgrims before they before they leave
the ship, and they create what they call a civil
(11:39):
body politic, and that's to enact just laws for the
public good. And we find the same parallel in Massachusetts
where the General Court, that's their legislature, adopts the what's
called the Body of Liberties, and that's that's the first
legal code, and so it drew heavily on earlier codes,
(11:59):
whether in the Old Testament or English common law, and
it includes some of the rights that are later included
in our Bill of Rights, things like freedom from arbitrary punishment,
the right to do process, protection of property, and so on.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
When all of this started, I have heard this before,
and please correct me if this is just apocryphal or
what have you, but I have heard tales that when
these colonists first came over, there was more of a
shared communal approach, one might even call it socialism, and
(12:36):
they quickly found that that didn't work. Like the people
in New York City are about where he discover once
again is there any truth to that? And that's where
they turned you further to more individual liberty and Adam
Smith capitalist models, those sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
You know, I think normally that is that's the idea
that the failure of socialism is applied to Virginia, the
settlement at Jamestown, the idea that you know, if men,
if men didn't work, they wouldn't eat. I think that
was the general religious principle that informed the pilgrims in
(13:19):
Plymouth as well as as well as in Massachusetts. I
think what happens is is that over time that very
communal spirit in which there is a commons surrounded by
private property, does eventually give way as migration increases and
the government expands, and there are broader questions as to
(13:39):
who is able to participate in self government. So first
you had to be a member of the church. Kind
of famously, there's a halfway covenant to expand the membership
even for those who were not able to testify to
a personal conversion experience. I think what eventually happens throughout
the sixteen hundred is that communal spirit that was very
(13:59):
import in which you had say, communal grazing land surrounded
by private property. That as more migrants come into Massachusetts,
that some of those elements of the strict scrutiny of
individual behavior falls away. And you had mentioned Benjamin Franklin earlier.
When you get into the early seventeen hundreds, there's more
(14:21):
of a liberal element to Christianity. And so if you
think of the way that the Puritans viewed their role,
there were officers called the tithesman. The Quakers had a
similar model, and that's where in a confessional church you
would have someone that would monitor the family, the children,
would make sure the children were properly catechised. And I
(14:43):
think those intrusive elements, some of those fall by the wayside.
By the time you get to the early seventeen.
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Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah. I suppose the evolution of you know, just as
more and more people come in, you know, you have
more and more of these individual liberties, more and more individualism.
And I think that that is foundational because you don't
(15:46):
get onto, you know, a rickety wooden ship and sail
across the rough Atlantic seas, lose half of the people
on the trip, and encounter all kinds of new ailments
and diseases in the new world without a couple of things.
(16:06):
If you survive, I think your faith in God must
be affected by that. And I think that you also
get a sense of if I'm going to do this thing,
I'm going to have to do much of this on
my own. Is that where this individualism that I think,
(16:30):
unfortunately we've lost a great deal of in modern times.
Is that where the American individualism came from.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, I think that the individuals play a larger role
in their congregations. You know, for example, the Mathers, so
Cotton Increase Mather They actually wanted to set up a
synod Massachusetts, and this was opposed by local congregations that
ministered it. S which his name was John Wise, and
he's one of the one of the colonists who led
(17:00):
opposition to what was called the Dominion of New England,
in which the New England charters were revoked to be
under the control of the crown. And so just as
William to Marry take the throne in sixteen eighty eight
eighty nine, there's a parallel revolt in New England. So
individuals in their local congregations are exercising more influence, and
(17:20):
I think this plays out throughout the colonies. It means
that ministers do they have to listen to those in
their parish. They have to satisfy some of their requests
in order to receive funding. So if you don't have
these large state churches, then you have to look to
your own parishioners for subscriptions to fund those churches. I
also think that the participation in the local government, we
(17:44):
find elements of individualism there. I was to quote from
one of the Pilgrims, man by the name of William Hilton.
He says, I quote, we are all freeholders. The rent
day does not trouble us, and all those good blessings
we have, of which and what we list in their
seasons for taking. He says, quote. Our company are for
(18:05):
most part very religious, honest people. The Word of God
sincerely taught us every Sabbath, so that I know not
any a thing a contented mind can here want. It's interesting,
he says, we're freeholders because if you look at the
English tradition, the twin pillars of English liberties are to
serve on juries even for those who were tenants, but
(18:26):
then also for those who had a certain minimum threshold
of income from land, the freeholders. And so if you
traveled to the New World, you could be a freeholder,
and that secured the privileges and the rights, but also
as well as the duties of citizenship. And so I
think the individuals who see themselves as playing a prominent
role in their own congregations as well as in their
(18:48):
own politics, produces this distinctly American character, and I think
it's properly described as a citizenship revolution, as opposed to
being near subjects. Them can see themselves as citizens. And
if we were to extend that out, we would say
in New England you find opposition to their treatment as subjects.
And this is going on in the late seventeenth century,
(19:12):
so part of the resistance against the dominion of New England,
and there were four more attempts by the Crown to
repeal their charters before seventeen twenty two.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Our guest today is Kevin Slack, Associate professor of Politics
at Hillsdale College. We're talking about the colonists, the early
founders of this exceptional republic of ours, as we give
thanksgiving to the concept of liberty and freedom, not just
(19:43):
the concept, the fact that these people struggled and suffered
and prevailed to bring us this liberty in this republic.
We'll talk about an interesting new class that Hillsdale offers
on colonial America coming up a little bit later. But
(20:05):
how long did these early colonists basically subsist exist without
too much hassle from the mother country.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well, I think you know you're you're pointing to one
of the early problems from the from the perspective of
of you know, we'd later be called Britain or England,
and that is they were very self subsisting. You know,
we recall that there's there's an English Civil War that
goes on that culminates in the you know, the beheading
of the king. And so during this period of time,
(20:41):
the Puritans, who were quite radical, they're the ones who
initially fill out Cromwell's army. They're governing themselves in Massachusetts.
And so when when there is eventually peace in England
and the Crown tries to restore authority, there had been
decades and decades of self rule, not to mention that
(21:01):
with the restoration of the monarch uh there was an
establishment of an Anglican Church and this attempt to to
to weed out the kinds of troublesome dissenters that had
been part of the Civil War. And so you have
the Puritans, who are are not as fashionable back home
(21:23):
in England, who are the ones who are making decisions
in Massachusetts. And so they got used to they got
used to defying the dictates of the lords of trade.
For example, when they would pass an act they would
they would they would include an expiration it with sunset
in a year, and that by the time that it
had acrossed the Atlantic uh and had been seen by
(21:45):
the Lords of Trade and made it back across the water,
it had already expired. Whether the lords of Trade wanted
to veto it or not. Uh. They issued their own
currency in violation of dictates of the lords of trade.
They opposed very much. Some of the order is about
for keeping pine trees for ships and so on. So
you have this vibrant political system in Massachusetts, particularly with
(22:10):
the establishment of a new Charter, and I think that
that that habit of self government really takes off. So
in the opposition to the dominion of New England that
begins in the in the town of Ipswich, and they
have a meeting and all the leaders of the meeting
there directly oppose this the attempt to try to tax
(22:31):
them under Governor Edmund Andros to tax them without their consent.
And that's where John Wise this this kind of big
wrestler of a minister at Ipswich. He's brought before one
of the judges and he starts to claim all the
rights that he believed he had as an Englishman right,
not as a subject, but as an English citizen. And
(22:53):
he claims the magnet, the Magna carta and other constitutional rights,
and the judge says, John, wise, don't think that you're
follow you to the end of the earth. You have
the right not to be sold for a slave.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
And so you have this as being one of many
moments where the colonists recognized that they don't actually have
the same rights as Englishmen, and continue that on out
through this period of salutary neglect throughout the mid seventeen hundreds,
and that builds into the disputes over taxation after the
French and Indian War.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, I think one of the great blessings that the
early colonists had was an ocean three thousands, you know,
thousands of miles away from the mother country, and you know,
England can send over all kinds of the crown consentive
were all kinds of writs and directives and orders and things.
(23:46):
They wouldn't get there for some time. But then of course,
as you know, the ships travel improves, you get more
and more people coming over. And then two add to
all of this self rule that's going on or to
inject into the self rule. Now you have, as you mentioned,
(24:10):
the motherland and its leaders now sending over governors and
those who are responsible for enforcing the rule of the
crown in America. How did that go over?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
You know, it doesn't go over well in many colonies.
And you could say that that period of you know,
what's often called salutary neglect seventeen twenties all the way
into the seventeen fifties is typified by battles between the
governors or the lieutenant governors that are appointed by proprietors
(24:49):
and the colonial assemblies. That's where Benjamin Franklin. You know,
we think of Franklin as this old revolutionary, but he
really gets the beginning of his career is as the
is as as a member of the Pennsylvania Assembly. Eventually
he's a speaker and eleaits opposition two to the proprietors there.
(25:09):
And it's also the case that the colonies are all
very different. They have there's different migrants who settle there,
but eventually they start to have their own independent identities
and over a period of time will have eventually a
collective identity and opposition to what they see is British tyranny. So,
(25:32):
for example, we think of this this important freedom of
religious toleration. Well, the Puritans were not very tolerant, particularly
for those like the Quakers, and in fact for those
who those who were somewhat outcasts who didn't agree with
the religious principles of Puritanism. Anne Hutchinson is one, Roger
(25:54):
Williams is another. They would banish them from Massachusetts and
they would send them to you know, what became Rhode Island.
In fact, Cotton Mather called Rhode Island the sewer of Massachusetts.
That's what they would flush all their refuse for those
who didn't agree with what they argued was true. I
think in a colony like Pennsylvania, what you have, because
(26:16):
it's settled by the Quakers is and they were on
the bottom of the totem pole there in the hierarchy
of the most persecuted is they begin to see that
it's better to tolerate those of different religious beliefs. So
you have this principle of religious toleration that grows up
in some of the colonies. And then they acquire their
(26:37):
own identities, and eventually an identity that's truly American, and
they can appeal to those broadly American principles.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
We had Rhode Island, and of course Maryland was its
own entity. All of these. Now, as we talked about
before these Englanders escaping from religious oppression, Catholics did the
same thing, found sanctuary and home in Maryland. How did
(27:04):
these different faiths and religions then interact and then how
eventually did it become fairly established that you can here
in America, you escaped from oppression, religious oppression in England,
(27:25):
you can follow your own conscience here in this country.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Well, the idea that there is a freedom of conscience,
that's conscience, that's a sacred right of Englishmen. We see
references to that, I mean among the Puritans themselves. The
idea that you would then tolerate others. I think it's
present in colonies like Pennsylvania, probably earlier than the others. Catholics,
(27:51):
other religious faiths poses an interesting It's an interesting case
because it's Catholics under Low Baltimore that settle Maryland. When
the Protestants take over, they start to deprive Catholics of
their civil rights, they tax them, and it's only during
this revolutionary period that Catholics begin to find an alliance
(28:15):
with Protestants politically, and they start to claim many of
those principles that are the foundation for the revolution. So
you could look at, for example, the Carrolls, Charles Carroll,
John Carroll, and John Carroll's the first American bishop. He's
actually Benjamin Franklin argues to the papal nuncio that he
should be appointed that But they are making arguments that
(28:37):
as Catholics, they may not agree with Protestants on theological issues,
but they do believe in civic toleration, and so they
can all agree that there are certain natural rights that
they possess as part of natural law under God. And
this can unify various religious groups. So you have Catholics,
you have Jews, but there's still a very small percentage
(29:01):
of the population, probably no more than two percent. America
is very much a Protestant nation. But finding a way
to try to balance those different Protestant sects, and that
was the course of battle in the early statehood. So
in Virginia in seventeen eighty five eighty six, Jefferson and
Madison very famously issued the remonstrance to argue against a
(29:23):
state church, which is what George Washington and Patrick Henry wanted.
They believed that in order to support morality, there ought
to be some kind of public teaching of the Christian faith.
And so in the New England States there are established churches,
but they're phased out, I believe eighteen thirty three by
(29:43):
that time, and I think it was because Americans were
a very religious people and they basically saw how some
kind of relation between church and state, a very close affiliation,
could lead to corruption or favoritism. And so there are
all these other ways that the states, all of them
endorse religion in various ways. Probably the most important is
(30:03):
tax exempt status, and you see many progressives going after that.
But that's a way of trying to endorse further religion. Obviously, prayer,
the reading of Bible and schools, the Blue laws on Sunday,
blasphemy laws, the open prayers, proclamations by a national assemblies,
state assemblies. Is another example.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Was a very faithful country founded as a very faithful country,
a very Christian country that said it was a country
that was heading toward divorce from the crown from England.
Did the French Indian War, the Seven Years War? Did that?
(30:46):
Was that a firing line. After there was a sense
of unification of Englanders, of England and its colonist through
this war. Afterwards things turned pretty sharply in terms of control.
But was that kind of the line that began the
(31:10):
march to independence?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yes, that was I'm thinking here. John Adams says a
pretty famous letter to Hezekia Niles in eighteen eighteen, and
he's describing the origins of the American Revolution, and he
says it wasn't the war, he said, it was a
change in the hearts and minds of the colonists. He
says that once they realized that Britain had no affection
for them, they didn't see it was their duty to
(31:34):
pray for the king, it wasn't their duty to obey
when they realized they themselves would not be reciprocally protected.
So with the French invading war, I think we find
is this culminating point in which the British are taxing
the colonists without their consent. They're instituting by admiralty courts,
so they're depriving them of the fundamental rights to trial
(31:56):
by jury and the usual things that you learn at school. Well,
I do think that those that rift had begun one
hundred years earlier. And why the French Inadian war is
so important is that the British government, as any war,
required taxes to pay for an immense debt. It had
acquired something like one hundred and thirty million pounds and
(32:17):
a large interest on that debt. Also, because it had
formed a large empire, the British government needed lots of
money to pay for administration. I think it rose from
something like seventy thousand pounds to three hundred thousand pounds
a year to administer the colonies. And during the war
we find a rift I think between the colonists and
(32:38):
the mother country as to the role the colonists themselves
had played. I think from the British point of view,
the generals involved, those like Jeffrey Amherst, they saw the
colonists as being freeloaders, as not having any kind of
a an altruistic mind to help serve the empire. They
saw the colonists as providing second rates soldiers, and the colonists,
(33:03):
from their point of view, they had levied, you know,
nine ten thousand troops a year in conscription. They filled
out the normal time allotted per conscription they paid a
lot of money, and so in their minds they performed
nobly in the requisitions and felt that they were not respected.
And so when it came to taxation, what they wanted
(33:24):
was a British request, something approved through their own legislative assemblies.
And rather what they got were strong arm tactics, eventually
to the point of to the point of sending British
soldiers over in seventeen sixty eight to places like Boston.
And this really sets the conflict and motion in the
conflicts between the British regulars and the locals. So the
(33:47):
British regulars would frequent local taverns. These were the centers
of social life. They would try to date local women,
all the things right that would lead to conflict between
an occupying army and a people.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, they were. The colonists were forced to take the
soldiers into their homes. They were forced into taxation without representation.
They at least wanted someone to represent them from a
colonist to represent them in Parliament, and at every turn
it was no, no, no, And eventually that has a
(34:29):
price to pay. So we get to the eve of
seventeen seventy five. This wasn't the March to Independence was
not a straight line, was it.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
So?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
The March the Independence, I would say, I guess to
be more clear. You know, there were some some radicals,
if you will. At the time. John Adams didn't start
out to be a radical. Benjamin Franklin did not start
out to be a radical. They didn't start out to
believe that there should be a severing of ties between
(35:13):
America and its mother country. But they were more and
more convinced, and they became more and more convincing as
time passed.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, and there were some key British politicians, so someone
like William Pitt who there were key British members of
Parliament who were actually arguing for a more favorable treatment
of the colonist representation, those kinds of things. And so Franklin,
(35:43):
you know, very famously describes the British empires this delicate
China base that he didn't wish to see broken because
it could never be repaired. And I think on the
colonist part, there were many, particularly those who invested interests,
people like Jonathan Dickinson, who wanted to preserve the peace
(36:04):
and the security of the empire. But there were also
many in Britain in the ministry who thought that again
the colonists were not paying their fair share. And if
you think about when so the two major taxes, the
Sugar Act of seventeen sixty four and the Stamp Act
of seventeen sixty five, that when the Stamp Act is
(36:25):
repealed and the British passed the Declaratory Act, that the
Declaratory Act was similar to the Irish Declaratory Act that
said the colonists were entitled to no rights of their own.
And I think after and then you know, after the
repeal of the Townshend duties, that the colonists realize and
(36:45):
those who are leaders realized that there's no way that
they are going to win this. And for Benjamin Franklin
in particular, famously he stands before the cockpit and he's
he's attacked by Solicitor Wedderburn. Seems to be an important
moment for Franklin, and the way that he describes it
in his meeting with Admiral Howe, with John Adams and
(37:08):
others in the attempt of the British to try to
avert revolution, was that the pride on the side of
the British would make reconciliation impossible, And he said, even
if we could forgive you, he said, you could never
forget the way that you have treated us. And so
at that point, this is after Lexington and Concord, this
(37:30):
final meeting, the colonial leaders themselves are saying there's no
going back. But there were various attempts to try to reconcile.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
So as we think about the first Thanksgivings and then
moving in as the revolutionary war begins, what is Thanksgiving
like at you know, some of these war torn places,
people who you know are fighting for a cause, but
(38:01):
they're doing so without shoes and without food in their stomachs.
Valley Forge, Roanoke, Charleston. What's Thanksgiving like for these new Americans?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Well, I think Thanksgiving had been part of the colonial
religious mindset, where again the legislatures are declaring days of Thanksgiving, fasting, humiliation, prayer,
and so on. From the mid seventeen seventies until the
mid seventeen eighties, the Continental Congress is issuing proclamations and
(38:39):
it was usually about two a year to call the
Americans to fasting and humiliation in prayer or to Thanksgiving.
Usually Thanksgiving was the latter. In the autumn. And then
George Washington is the first president who's going to issue
with a Thanksgiving proclamation set for November twenty six, seventeen
(39:00):
eighty nine, And just a quote from some of that,
he says, to be devoted by the people of these
states to the service of that great and glorious Being
who is the beneficent author of all the good that was,
that is, or that will be. That we may ven
all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble
thanks for his kind care and protection of the people
(39:22):
of this country previous to their becoming a nation. And
so Washington is the one who establishes this first Thanksgiving,
although it's a recommendation to the states rather to participate
in it. He will do it a second time in
seventeen ninety five. Madison has a Thanksgiving proclamation in eighteen fifteen.
And then Lincoln is the one who sets a national
(39:44):
day for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yes, And he said it, of course, as the country
was falling apart in the middle of a devastating civil war.
And Lincoln knew and and he encouraged his fellow Americans
to turn to God during these dark times. And I
(40:08):
think that's The unifying theme, isn't it of the earth?
From the early colonists to the Civil War, to global war,
to trials and tribulations to nine to eleven, it is
still I hope Americans turning to their faith, turning to
(40:33):
the deity that gives them their rights. Are we in
danger of losing all of that?
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I think we are. I think that Americans have had
a long tradition of what we call self reliance, but
that a day of Thanksgiving is an opportunity for us
to realize that our possibilities of self reliance rely on
something much greater than our else.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Indeed, there is a fascinating course that is about to
be offered at Hillsdale. I just wanted to touch upon
that momentarily. It is called Colonial America From Wilderness to Civilization.
Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Well, it's the origin of the course, as I understand it.
It was birthed in the idea that to understand the
American Revolution it was about knowing more than the Declaration
of Independence, which is incredibly important, it was also to
know much about the traditions that were rooted in and
(41:39):
Thanksgiving being one of those, and so I and other
Hillsdale professors are interviewed in a documentary in working with
a company Distant Moon, which does a wonderful job in
production to just describe the various eras of the American
colonial period that lead us up to this remarkable revolution
(41:59):
and the fulfillment of the principles that we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Well, and I believe it all starts November twenty fifth,
so coming up very soon next week. As a matter
of fact, how would one go about tuning in or
tapping into this resource?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
You know that that's actually outside of my wheelhouse. My
guess is is that you would contact somebody in marketing.
I know that they've been releasing these documentaries once once
a week. The first one is already out. I know
for some of those who were there at the original showing,
(42:40):
they were given access to I think six of them. No, November
twenty fifth for everyone, what's that be? November twenty fifth
for everyone? November twenty fifth for everyone. I was just told,
So that's what.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Was that for? What was Kevin? What was that voice
on high sound? Sounded like a proclamation coming our way
from a higher power.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
That was the divine Peter Slaighton the Divine who I
had a revelation. All the episodes are available on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
An epiphany on Thanksgiving. That's absolutely right, So November twenty
fifth is when you'll be able to find all of
the episode Sounds Fascinating Colonial America from wilderness to civilization.
You can find it online at Hillsdale College. What I
think we have gotten a better picture of is really
why we should be thankful as we approach Thanksgiving. And Kevin,
(43:33):
I'm thankful for you for sharing that with us, the
history and the blood and bones of it all.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, and thank you for the opportunity to discuss it.
I think Thanksgiving is a wonderful time, particularly in a
period of political turmoil, for us to try to remember
the things that are most important. Family, a certain gratitude
to God, and to love the ones that were privileged
to be with.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Absolutely, let's help those kindsversations around the dinner table keep
in mind everything that you just mentioned. Thanks to my
guest today, Kevin Slack, Associate Professor of Politics at Hillsdale College,
you've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.
I'm Matt Kittle, Senior elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll
(44:18):
be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of
freedom and anxious for the fray.
And we are back with another edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. I'm Mad Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at The
Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge.
As always, you can email the show at radio at
the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at fbr LST,
make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and
(00:40):
of course to the premium version of our website as well.
Our guest today is Kevin Slack, Associate Professor of Politics
at Hillsdale College. As we turn our attention to family, friends,
and maybe most importantly food around the Thanksgiving table, let's
reflect on how truly blessed we are to live in
(01:02):
this exceptional republic and consider the colonist who founded and
built it. Kevin, thank you so much for joining us
on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah. I'm really excited about this conversation because we often
talk about foundational principles, and I think that is incredibly important,
particularly in these days when we seem to have lost
our principles in the heat of politics. But I think
it's very important to stop and reflect on the people
(01:37):
as I said before, who built the foundation? Now who
started this exceptional republic? Those colonists and Kevin. Let's begin
there with who the colonists were. I mean, what were
they looking for? What were they escaping from? What did
they dream about? Did they ever could they possibly have
(02:01):
imagined what America is two hundred and fifty years later?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, you know, you have different reasons for migrating to
the colonies, and you know, we think of Thanksgiving and
that's primarily the New England migrants. And you know, you
speak of the principles for colonize it. So I think
you have to consider the various reasons why, you know,
the settlers migrated to the American colonies, and when we
(02:32):
think about Thanksgiving, the primary motive there was faith, and
faith played a major role in the creation. They played
a major role in that settlement. It was the reason
for the settlement of New England. And many of the
English separatists, those are those who wanted to separate from
the Church of England. They've lived in a small English
(02:52):
farming village of Scruby, but they faced persecution. So Queen
Elizabeth and her successor had begun to secute the separatists.
The attendance if any unofficial church resulted in sometimes severe punishments, fines, imprisonment,
there were some that were executed. And so this congregation
(03:13):
then flees to Holland. And this is after a first
failed attempt, but eventually it settled there in Leiden and
they work. They work in the textile industry and in brewing,
very demanding jobs six days a week. And they stayed
there for about twelve years. And I think then we
have the flip side where they realized they were losing
(03:35):
their identity that Leiden was actually a very tolerant place,
the university city, and so by faith they left their
native land to go to Holland. And just of course,
traveling so many miles in what was called adventure, almost desperate,
was another act of faith across the Atlantic. So we
think about one of those primary principles, and that is
(03:57):
freedom of conscience. And that was very year to the
Pilgrims and a little bit later the Puritans. But we
hold that year today.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Indeed, and we think about the difficulties of airline travel
today as we get ready to travel all over the
country for the Thanksgiving holiday, But we have nothing to
complain about compared to what the early settlers experienced. What
was that like that very dangerous voyage.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Well on the voyage itself, and then after the anchor offshore,
about half of the one hundred and two passengers died
the first winter of sickness, diseases like scurvy, exposure to
the elements, and at one point there's only a handful
of pilgrims, less than ten that are healthy enough to
(04:50):
care for the rest. The first governor, John Carver, died
after the winter of that April, but about a month
before that he was able to sign a peace treaty
with the Chief Massasoit. This is the chief of the
Wampanoagu Indians, and that was after in exchange of greetings
and gifts, and that peace lasted for fifty years. And
(05:13):
so it would be William Bradford who was elected the
next governor, and he and one of the colonists, Edward Winslow,
they provided the only two accounts we have of that
first Thanksgiving. But it was very much gratitude for God's
providence in protecting those who remained, in securing a bountiful
(05:36):
harvest for that fall. And that's what we celebrate, is
the first Thanksgiving is these three days of celebration in
collecting the harvest. And I looked up some of those accounts,
one of them by Winslow. He writes, quote, our governor
sent four men fouling, so that we might, after a
(05:56):
special manner, rejoice together after we had gathered the fruits
of our life. And he says in one day that
the men that were sent out they killed as many birds,
and that was to last the company. There were fifty
three pilgrims, to last them a whole week. And Bradford
and Hit his own account, he wrote, they had a
quote great store of wild turkeys, So our eating turkey
(06:18):
isn't violating any kind of a tradition established in that
first autumn feast. And that's where during their recreation, and
this is when they weren't securing their homes for the
upcoming winter, they exercised their arms. So they for weapons.
They had the arvicus and matchlock muskets. And then they
(06:39):
were joined by Chief Massasoit in this early alliance, and
he brought ninety of the Wampanoag warriors, and then he
sent them to kill deer, and so as a gift
to the governor, he gave them five deer. What I
think is fascinating is that that they don't in these accounts,
they don't use the word Thanksgiving. Rather, the days of
(07:02):
Thanksgiving were days of religious observance for prayer and worship,
and not so much the feast that we think of.
And so following this first sixteen twenty one feast, all
of the other colonies would eventually have their own days
of Thanksgiving, and that's where the various political bodies would
(07:23):
call on citizens to thank God for various reasons safe voyages,
military victories, but good weather and harvest. And so the
first official Thanksgiving that's called by Bradford took place in
sixteen twenty three, that's two years after the Pilgrim's arrival,
(07:43):
and they had they had games and food shared with
these the Wampanoid Indian allies. But then it becomes a tradition,
these religious days that are observed and eventually in all
the colonies, and by the end of the sixteen hundreds
all the New England colonies, and usually usually in autumn,
and it was to celebrate the harvest in God's provision
(08:06):
for the settlers.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
It's very interesting to me that the first Thanksgiving first
Thanksgiving week or several days involved Benjamin Franklin's preferred national bird,
and that was the turkey. So we started right away
with our turkey tradition. And Benjamin Franklin never did get
(08:30):
the turkey as the national symbol, of course. But what
is I think more profound is that here in America,
in what became modern day Massachusetts, you have colonists, people
escaping religious oppression, the tyranny of the crown as it
(08:54):
related to you. You described all of those horrible things
that happened to those first Americas while they were citizens
of England, and of course they were still citizens of
England in this new colony. But I can only imagine
just how much how profound it would feel to be
(09:16):
able to celebrate and to thank God in your own
way without the Crown telling you how to do it
or punishing you for how you did it.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yes, And I think what we see is this connection
between self rule that forms in the minds of the
people as well as this pursuit of religious freedom. And
I think that the Pilgrims, who are the separatists wanting
to separate from the Church of England, and later the
Puritans who wanted to purify the Church of England. They're
(09:49):
part of this broader growing spirit driven by a revolt
against religious hierarchy. And we see that in congregationalism, and
that goes hand in hand with Parliament's Parliament's opposition to
the crown under James the First and so and so
(10:09):
you find this congregationalism and self government in the churches
becomes i think a foundation or goes along with self
government in politics. And so it's part of a broader
history of self government. And that's what the Pilgrims and
the Puritans take with them to the New World. And
we find that both in Plymouth Colony and very interesting
(10:34):
in Plymouth Colony that this was this was paid for
by a merchant adventure company. And then when the company
proves to be unprofitable, they don't find gold, they don't
find any of the say the lucrative cash crops for example,
like something like tobacco that would be discovered or planted
(10:54):
later in Virginia. And so those settlers in the sixteen twenties,
eight of them, they actually buy out their own charter
and that means that they own and govern themselves as
a company. And so this agreement that they make with
the initial shareholders, transfers all the company's shares and the
(11:16):
and the debt to the colonists themselves, and it takes
them about twenty years to pay that off. So here
you have you have kind of economics and politics going
hand in hand with the Pilgrims as far as for
as far as their own government. Famously, the Mayflower Compact
is signed by the Pilgrims before they before they leave
the ship, and they create what they call a civil
(11:39):
body politic, and that's to enact just laws for the
public good. And we find the same parallel in Massachusetts
where the General Court, that's their legislature, adopts the what's
called the Body of Liberties, and that's that's the first
legal code, and so it drew heavily on earlier codes,
(11:59):
whether in the Old Testament or English common law, and
it includes some of the rights that are later included
in our Bill of Rights, things like freedom from arbitrary punishment,
the right to do process, protection of property, and so on.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
When all of this started, I have heard this before,
and please correct me if this is just apocryphal or
what have you, but I have heard tales that when
these colonists first came over, there was more of a
shared communal approach, one might even call it socialism, and
(12:36):
they quickly found that that didn't work. Like the people
in New York City are about where he discover once
again is there any truth to that? And that's where
they turned you further to more individual liberty and Adam
Smith capitalist models, those sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
You know, I think normally that is that's the idea
that the failure of socialism is applied to Virginia, the
settlement at Jamestown, the idea that you know, if men,
if men didn't work, they wouldn't eat. I think that
was the general religious principle that informed the pilgrims in
(13:19):
Plymouth as well as as well as in Massachusetts. I
think what happens is is that over time that very
communal spirit in which there is a commons surrounded by
private property, does eventually give way as migration increases and
the government expands, and there are broader questions as to
(13:39):
who is able to participate in self government. So first
you had to be a member of the church. Kind
of famously, there's a halfway covenant to expand the membership
even for those who were not able to testify to
a personal conversion experience. I think what eventually happens throughout
the sixteen hundred is that communal spirit that was very
(13:59):
import in which you had say, communal grazing land surrounded
by private property. That as more migrants come into Massachusetts,
that some of those elements of the strict scrutiny of
individual behavior falls away. And you had mentioned Benjamin Franklin earlier.
When you get into the early seventeen hundreds, there's more
(14:21):
of a liberal element to Christianity. And so if you
think of the way that the Puritans viewed their role,
there were officers called the tithesman. The Quakers had a
similar model, and that's where in a confessional church you
would have someone that would monitor the family, the children,
would make sure the children were properly catechised. And I
(14:43):
think those intrusive elements, some of those fall by the wayside.
By the time you get to the early seventeen.
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Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah. I suppose the evolution of you know, just as
more and more people come in, you know, you have
more and more of these individual liberties, more and more individualism.
And I think that that is foundational because you don't
(15:46):
get onto, you know, a rickety wooden ship and sail
across the rough Atlantic seas, lose half of the people
on the trip, and encounter all kinds of new ailments
and diseases in the new world without a couple of things.
(16:06):
If you survive, I think your faith in God must
be affected by that. And I think that you also
get a sense of if I'm going to do this thing,
I'm going to have to do much of this on
my own. Is that where this individualism that I think,
(16:30):
unfortunately we've lost a great deal of in modern times.
Is that where the American individualism came from.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, I think that the individuals play a larger role
in their congregations. You know, for example, the Mathers, so
Cotton Increase Mather They actually wanted to set up a
synod Massachusetts, and this was opposed by local congregations that
ministered it. S which his name was John Wise, and
he's one of the one of the colonists who led
(17:00):
opposition to what was called the Dominion of New England,
in which the New England charters were revoked to be
under the control of the crown. And so just as
William to Marry take the throne in sixteen eighty eight
eighty nine, there's a parallel revolt in New England. So
individuals in their local congregations are exercising more influence, and
(17:20):
I think this plays out throughout the colonies. It means
that ministers do they have to listen to those in
their parish. They have to satisfy some of their requests
in order to receive funding. So if you don't have
these large state churches, then you have to look to
your own parishioners for subscriptions to fund those churches. I
also think that the participation in the local government, we
(17:44):
find elements of individualism there. I was to quote from
one of the Pilgrims, man by the name of William Hilton.
He says, I quote, we are all freeholders. The rent
day does not trouble us, and all those good blessings
we have, of which and what we list in their
seasons for taking. He says, quote. Our company are for
(18:05):
most part very religious, honest people. The Word of God
sincerely taught us every Sabbath, so that I know not
any a thing a contented mind can here want. It's interesting,
he says, we're freeholders because if you look at the
English tradition, the twin pillars of English liberties are to
serve on juries even for those who were tenants, but
(18:26):
then also for those who had a certain minimum threshold
of income from land, the freeholders. And so if you
traveled to the New World, you could be a freeholder,
and that secured the privileges and the rights, but also
as well as the duties of citizenship. And so I
think the individuals who see themselves as playing a prominent
role in their own congregations as well as in their
(18:48):
own politics, produces this distinctly American character, and I think
it's properly described as a citizenship revolution, as opposed to
being near subjects. Them can see themselves as citizens. And
if we were to extend that out, we would say
in New England you find opposition to their treatment as subjects.
And this is going on in the late seventeenth century,
(19:12):
so part of the resistance against the dominion of New England,
and there were four more attempts by the Crown to
repeal their charters before seventeen twenty two.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Our guest today is Kevin Slack, Associate professor of Politics
at Hillsdale College. We're talking about the colonists, the early
founders of this exceptional republic of ours, as we give
thanksgiving to the concept of liberty and freedom, not just
(19:43):
the concept, the fact that these people struggled and suffered
and prevailed to bring us this liberty in this republic.
We'll talk about an interesting new class that Hillsdale offers
on colonial America coming up a little bit later. But
(20:05):
how long did these early colonists basically subsist exist without
too much hassle from the mother country.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well, I think you know you're you're pointing to one
of the early problems from the from the perspective of
of you know, we'd later be called Britain or England,
and that is they were very self subsisting. You know,
we recall that there's there's an English Civil War that
goes on that culminates in the you know, the beheading
of the king. And so during this period of time,
(20:41):
the Puritans, who were quite radical, they're the ones who
initially fill out Cromwell's army. They're governing themselves in Massachusetts.
And so when when there is eventually peace in England
and the Crown tries to restore authority, there had been
decades and decades of self rule, not to mention that
(21:01):
with the restoration of the monarch uh there was an
establishment of an Anglican Church and this attempt to to
to weed out the kinds of troublesome dissenters that had
been part of the Civil War. And so you have
the Puritans, who are are not as fashionable back home
(21:23):
in England, who are the ones who are making decisions
in Massachusetts. And so they got used to they got
used to defying the dictates of the lords of trade.
For example, when they would pass an act they would
they would they would include an expiration it with sunset
in a year, and that by the time that it
had acrossed the Atlantic uh and had been seen by
(21:45):
the Lords of Trade and made it back across the water,
it had already expired. Whether the lords of Trade wanted
to veto it or not. Uh. They issued their own
currency in violation of dictates of the lords of trade.
They opposed very much. Some of the order is about
for keeping pine trees for ships and so on. So
you have this vibrant political system in Massachusetts, particularly with
(22:10):
the establishment of a new Charter, and I think that
that that habit of self government really takes off. So
in the opposition to the dominion of New England that
begins in the in the town of Ipswich, and they
have a meeting and all the leaders of the meeting
there directly oppose this the attempt to try to tax
(22:31):
them under Governor Edmund Andros to tax them without their consent.
And that's where John Wise this this kind of big
wrestler of a minister at Ipswich. He's brought before one
of the judges and he starts to claim all the
rights that he believed he had as an Englishman right,
not as a subject, but as an English citizen. And
(22:53):
he claims the magnet, the Magna carta and other constitutional rights,
and the judge says, John, wise, don't think that you're
follow you to the end of the earth. You have
the right not to be sold for a slave.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
And so you have this as being one of many
moments where the colonists recognized that they don't actually have
the same rights as Englishmen, and continue that on out
through this period of salutary neglect throughout the mid seventeen hundreds,
and that builds into the disputes over taxation after the
French and Indian War.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, I think one of the great blessings that the
early colonists had was an ocean three thousands, you know,
thousands of miles away from the mother country, and you know,
England can send over all kinds of the crown consentive
were all kinds of writs and directives and orders and things.
(23:46):
They wouldn't get there for some time. But then of course,
as you know, the ships travel improves, you get more
and more people coming over. And then two add to
all of this self rule that's going on or to
inject into the self rule. Now you have, as you mentioned,
(24:10):
the motherland and its leaders now sending over governors and
those who are responsible for enforcing the rule of the
crown in America. How did that go over?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
You know, it doesn't go over well in many colonies.
And you could say that that period of you know,
what's often called salutary neglect seventeen twenties all the way
into the seventeen fifties is typified by battles between the
governors or the lieutenant governors that are appointed by proprietors
(24:49):
and the colonial assemblies. That's where Benjamin Franklin. You know,
we think of Franklin as this old revolutionary, but he
really gets the beginning of his career is as the
is as as a member of the Pennsylvania Assembly. Eventually
he's a speaker and eleaits opposition two to the proprietors there.
(25:09):
And it's also the case that the colonies are all
very different. They have there's different migrants who settle there,
but eventually they start to have their own independent identities
and over a period of time will have eventually a
collective identity and opposition to what they see is British tyranny. So,
(25:32):
for example, we think of this this important freedom of
religious toleration. Well, the Puritans were not very tolerant, particularly
for those like the Quakers, and in fact for those
who those who were somewhat outcasts who didn't agree with
the religious principles of Puritanism. Anne Hutchinson is one, Roger
(25:54):
Williams is another. They would banish them from Massachusetts and
they would send them to you know, what became Rhode Island.
In fact, Cotton Mather called Rhode Island the sewer of Massachusetts.
That's what they would flush all their refuse for those
who didn't agree with what they argued was true. I
think in a colony like Pennsylvania, what you have, because
(26:16):
it's settled by the Quakers is and they were on
the bottom of the totem pole there in the hierarchy
of the most persecuted is they begin to see that
it's better to tolerate those of different religious beliefs. So
you have this principle of religious toleration that grows up
in some of the colonies. And then they acquire their
(26:37):
own identities, and eventually an identity that's truly American, and
they can appeal to those broadly American principles.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
We had Rhode Island, and of course Maryland was its
own entity. All of these. Now, as we talked about
before these Englanders escaping from religious oppression, Catholics did the
same thing, found sanctuary and home in Maryland. How did
(27:04):
these different faiths and religions then interact and then how
eventually did it become fairly established that you can here
in America, you escaped from oppression, religious oppression in England,
(27:25):
you can follow your own conscience here in this country.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Well, the idea that there is a freedom of conscience,
that's conscience, that's a sacred right of Englishmen. We see
references to that, I mean among the Puritans themselves. The
idea that you would then tolerate others. I think it's
present in colonies like Pennsylvania, probably earlier than the others. Catholics,
(27:51):
other religious faiths poses an interesting It's an interesting case
because it's Catholics under Low Baltimore that settle Maryland. When
the Protestants take over, they start to deprive Catholics of
their civil rights, they tax them, and it's only during
this revolutionary period that Catholics begin to find an alliance
(28:15):
with Protestants politically, and they start to claim many of
those principles that are the foundation for the revolution. So
you could look at, for example, the Carrolls, Charles Carroll,
John Carroll, and John Carroll's the first American bishop. He's
actually Benjamin Franklin argues to the papal nuncio that he
should be appointed that But they are making arguments that
(28:37):
as Catholics, they may not agree with Protestants on theological issues,
but they do believe in civic toleration, and so they
can all agree that there are certain natural rights that
they possess as part of natural law under God. And
this can unify various religious groups. So you have Catholics,
you have Jews, but there's still a very small percentage
(29:01):
of the population, probably no more than two percent. America
is very much a Protestant nation. But finding a way
to try to balance those different Protestant sects, and that
was the course of battle in the early statehood. So
in Virginia in seventeen eighty five eighty six, Jefferson and
Madison very famously issued the remonstrance to argue against a
(29:23):
state church, which is what George Washington and Patrick Henry wanted.
They believed that in order to support morality, there ought
to be some kind of public teaching of the Christian faith.
And so in the New England States there are established churches,
but they're phased out, I believe eighteen thirty three by
(29:43):
that time, and I think it was because Americans were
a very religious people and they basically saw how some
kind of relation between church and state, a very close affiliation,
could lead to corruption or favoritism. And so there are
all these other ways that the states, all of them
endorse religion in various ways. Probably the most important is
(30:03):
tax exempt status, and you see many progressives going after that.
But that's a way of trying to endorse further religion. Obviously, prayer,
the reading of Bible and schools, the Blue laws on Sunday,
blasphemy laws, the open prayers, proclamations by a national assemblies,
state assemblies. Is another example.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Was a very faithful country founded as a very faithful country,
a very Christian country that said it was a country
that was heading toward divorce from the crown from England.
Did the French Indian War, the Seven Years War? Did that?
(30:46):
Was that a firing line. After there was a sense
of unification of Englanders, of England and its colonist through
this war. Afterwards things turned pretty sharply in terms of control.
But was that kind of the line that began the
(31:10):
march to independence?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yes, that was I'm thinking here. John Adams says a
pretty famous letter to Hezekia Niles in eighteen eighteen, and
he's describing the origins of the American Revolution, and he
says it wasn't the war, he said, it was a
change in the hearts and minds of the colonists. He
says that once they realized that Britain had no affection
for them, they didn't see it was their duty to
(31:34):
pray for the king, it wasn't their duty to obey
when they realized they themselves would not be reciprocally protected.
So with the French invading war, I think we find
is this culminating point in which the British are taxing
the colonists without their consent. They're instituting by admiralty courts,
so they're depriving them of the fundamental rights to trial
(31:56):
by jury and the usual things that you learn at school. Well,
I do think that those that rift had begun one
hundred years earlier. And why the French Inadian war is
so important is that the British government, as any war,
required taxes to pay for an immense debt. It had
acquired something like one hundred and thirty million pounds and
(32:17):
a large interest on that debt. Also, because it had
formed a large empire, the British government needed lots of
money to pay for administration. I think it rose from
something like seventy thousand pounds to three hundred thousand pounds
a year to administer the colonies. And during the war
we find a rift I think between the colonists and
(32:38):
the mother country as to the role the colonists themselves
had played. I think from the British point of view,
the generals involved, those like Jeffrey Amherst, they saw the
colonists as being freeloaders, as not having any kind of
a an altruistic mind to help serve the empire. They
saw the colonists as providing second rates soldiers, and the colonists,
(33:03):
from their point of view, they had levied, you know,
nine ten thousand troops a year in conscription. They filled
out the normal time allotted per conscription they paid a
lot of money, and so in their minds they performed
nobly in the requisitions and felt that they were not respected.
And so when it came to taxation, what they wanted
(33:24):
was a British request, something approved through their own legislative assemblies.
And rather what they got were strong arm tactics, eventually
to the point of to the point of sending British
soldiers over in seventeen sixty eight to places like Boston.
And this really sets the conflict and motion in the
conflicts between the British regulars and the locals. So the
(33:47):
British regulars would frequent local taverns. These were the centers
of social life. They would try to date local women,
all the things right that would lead to conflict between
an occupying army and a people.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, they were. The colonists were forced to take the
soldiers into their homes. They were forced into taxation without representation.
They at least wanted someone to represent them from a
colonist to represent them in Parliament, and at every turn
it was no, no, no, And eventually that has a
(34:29):
price to pay. So we get to the eve of
seventeen seventy five. This wasn't the March to Independence was
not a straight line, was it.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
So?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
The March the Independence, I would say, I guess to
be more clear. You know, there were some some radicals,
if you will. At the time. John Adams didn't start
out to be a radical. Benjamin Franklin did not start
out to be a radical. They didn't start out to
believe that there should be a severing of ties between
(35:13):
America and its mother country. But they were more and
more convinced, and they became more and more convincing as
time passed.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, and there were some key British politicians, so someone
like William Pitt who there were key British members of
Parliament who were actually arguing for a more favorable treatment
of the colonist representation, those kinds of things. And so Franklin,
(35:43):
you know, very famously describes the British empires this delicate
China base that he didn't wish to see broken because
it could never be repaired. And I think on the
colonist part, there were many, particularly those who invested interests,
people like Jonathan Dickinson, who wanted to preserve the peace
(36:04):
and the security of the empire. But there were also
many in Britain in the ministry who thought that again
the colonists were not paying their fair share. And if
you think about when so the two major taxes, the
Sugar Act of seventeen sixty four and the Stamp Act
of seventeen sixty five, that when the Stamp Act is
(36:25):
repealed and the British passed the Declaratory Act, that the
Declaratory Act was similar to the Irish Declaratory Act that
said the colonists were entitled to no rights of their own.
And I think after and then you know, after the
repeal of the Townshend duties, that the colonists realize and
(36:45):
those who are leaders realized that there's no way that
they are going to win this. And for Benjamin Franklin
in particular, famously he stands before the cockpit and he's
he's attacked by Solicitor Wedderburn. Seems to be an important
moment for Franklin, and the way that he describes it
in his meeting with Admiral Howe, with John Adams and
(37:08):
others in the attempt of the British to try to
avert revolution, was that the pride on the side of
the British would make reconciliation impossible, And he said, even
if we could forgive you, he said, you could never
forget the way that you have treated us. And so
at that point, this is after Lexington and Concord, this
(37:30):
final meeting, the colonial leaders themselves are saying there's no
going back. But there were various attempts to try to reconcile.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
So as we think about the first Thanksgivings and then
moving in as the revolutionary war begins, what is Thanksgiving
like at you know, some of these war torn places,
people who you know are fighting for a cause, but
(38:01):
they're doing so without shoes and without food in their stomachs.
Valley Forge, Roanoke, Charleston. What's Thanksgiving like for these new Americans?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Well, I think Thanksgiving had been part of the colonial
religious mindset, where again the legislatures are declaring days of Thanksgiving, fasting, humiliation, prayer,
and so on. From the mid seventeen seventies until the
mid seventeen eighties, the Continental Congress is issuing proclamations and
(38:39):
it was usually about two a year to call the
Americans to fasting and humiliation in prayer or to Thanksgiving.
Usually Thanksgiving was the latter. In the autumn. And then
George Washington is the first president who's going to issue
with a Thanksgiving proclamation set for November twenty six, seventeen
(39:00):
eighty nine, And just a quote from some of that,
he says, to be devoted by the people of these
states to the service of that great and glorious Being
who is the beneficent author of all the good that was,
that is, or that will be. That we may ven
all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble
thanks for his kind care and protection of the people
(39:22):
of this country previous to their becoming a nation. And
so Washington is the one who establishes this first Thanksgiving,
although it's a recommendation to the states rather to participate
in it. He will do it a second time in
seventeen ninety five. Madison has a Thanksgiving proclamation in eighteen fifteen.
And then Lincoln is the one who sets a national
(39:44):
day for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yes, And he said it, of course, as the country
was falling apart in the middle of a devastating civil war.
And Lincoln knew and and he encouraged his fellow Americans
to turn to God during these dark times. And I
(40:08):
think that's The unifying theme, isn't it of the earth?
From the early colonists to the Civil War, to global war,
to trials and tribulations to nine to eleven, it is
still I hope Americans turning to their faith, turning to
(40:33):
the deity that gives them their rights. Are we in
danger of losing all of that?
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I think we are. I think that Americans have had
a long tradition of what we call self reliance, but
that a day of Thanksgiving is an opportunity for us
to realize that our possibilities of self reliance rely on
something much greater than our else.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Indeed, there is a fascinating course that is about to
be offered at Hillsdale. I just wanted to touch upon
that momentarily. It is called Colonial America From Wilderness to Civilization.
Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Well, it's the origin of the course, as I understand it.
It was birthed in the idea that to understand the
American Revolution it was about knowing more than the Declaration
of Independence, which is incredibly important, it was also to
know much about the traditions that were rooted in and
(41:39):
Thanksgiving being one of those, and so I and other
Hillsdale professors are interviewed in a documentary in working with
a company Distant Moon, which does a wonderful job in
production to just describe the various eras of the American
colonial period that lead us up to this remarkable revolution
(41:59):
and the fulfillment of the principles that we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Well, and I believe it all starts November twenty fifth,
so coming up very soon next week. As a matter
of fact, how would one go about tuning in or
tapping into this resource?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
You know that that's actually outside of my wheelhouse. My
guess is is that you would contact somebody in marketing.
I know that they've been releasing these documentaries once once
a week. The first one is already out. I know
for some of those who were there at the original showing,
(42:40):
they were given access to I think six of them. No, November
twenty fifth for everyone, what's that be? November twenty fifth
for everyone? November twenty fifth for everyone. I was just told,
So that's what.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Was that for? What was Kevin? What was that voice
on high sound? Sounded like a proclamation coming our way
from a higher power.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
That was the divine Peter Slaighton the Divine who I
had a revelation. All the episodes are available on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
An epiphany on Thanksgiving. That's absolutely right, So November twenty
fifth is when you'll be able to find all of
the episode Sounds Fascinating Colonial America from wilderness to civilization.
You can find it online at Hillsdale College. What I
think we have gotten a better picture of is really
why we should be thankful as we approach Thanksgiving. And Kevin,
(43:33):
I'm thankful for you for sharing that with us, the
history and the blood and bones of it all.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, and thank you for the opportunity to discuss it.
I think Thanksgiving is a wonderful time, particularly in a
period of political turmoil, for us to try to remember
the things that are most important. Family, a certain gratitude
to God, and to love the ones that were privileged
to be with.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Absolutely, let's help those kindsversations around the dinner table keep
in mind everything that you just mentioned. Thanks to my
guest today, Kevin Slack, Associate Professor of Politics at Hillsdale College,
you've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.
I'm Matt Kittle, Senior elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll
(44:18):
be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of
freedom and anxious for the fray.
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