December 2, 2025 • 43 mins
On this episode of The Federalist Radio Hour, Doug DeVos, businessman and chair of the National Constitution Center, joins Federalist Senior Elections Correspondent Matt Kittle to analyze the state of the American Dream and discuss what it will take to return to the nation's founding principles.
Read DeVos' book Believe!: A Timeless Endorsement of American Principles here.
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Read DeVos' book Believe!: A Timeless Endorsement of American Principles here.
If you care about combating the corrupt media that continue to inflict devastating damage, please give a gift to help The Federalist do the real journalism America needs.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And we are back with another edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior Elections correspondent at The
Federalist and your experienced sherpa on today's Quest for Knowledge.
As always, you can email the show at radio at
the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST,
make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and
(00:39):
of course to the premium version of our website as well.
Our guest today is Doug DeVoss, American businessman and chairman
of the National Constitution Center. He says like his father
did fifty years ago, probably said it more than that,
but he says America isn't in decline, just drifting. Doug,
(01:05):
thank you so much for joining us on this edition
of the Federalist Radio Hour.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Matt, it's an honor to be here and I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I think this is an exciting topic. I think it's fascinating.
It was when your father's book came out, and for
those not familiar with Rich Devas's book in nineteen seventy five,
it's called Believe, a Timeless endorsement of American Principles. This
(01:32):
is the fiftieth anniversary edition that is coming out this year.
And it's interesting to note that this came out at
the bi centennial year and now here we are, Doug
two hundred and fifty years into this great experiment of
this exceptional republic. Tell us a little bit about the
(01:55):
book and the principles that are still so valid today.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Absolutely, and Matt, thanks for giving me the opportunity to
talk about this, because, as you said, this experiment that
we have of self governance or self government is quite extraordinary,
and it's something that you know that my father lived
into and that we've lived into. And we know we're
not a perfect country, but we know we're always trying
(02:22):
to be more perfect. And it's like all of us
in life, and as time goes on, it's easy to
kind of get further and further away from the founding principles,
the founding values of any organization, and that happens as
a country as well. So that's why I use afraid
I think it's easy to be drifting, but it's important
to remind ourselves of what our course should be, what
(02:45):
our target should be, and what that north star looks like.
And so you know, Dad talked about elements that were
really important to him, you know, belief in people and
the potential of every person of a positive attitude, of
belief in God, in having a faith base in your
life at least challenging yourself with that decision. Belief in family,
(03:07):
belief in free enterprise, accountability, some of those core issues
that were so important in his life, and of course
belief in America. And so we continue to believe in
America and challenge ourselves as citizens to be paying attention
and to be challenging ourselves to say, what can we
(03:29):
do to be part of making America more perfect.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Of course, that book that we're talking about, Believe a
Timeless Endorsement of American Principles, was written by the co
founder of Amway, Rich de Voss. You, sir, are the
co chairman co chair of Amway. Your family has definitely
lived the American dream like so many other families. You
(03:56):
started off with a guy or a gal with an idea. Huh,
took that idea and thanks to the American system, he
was able to turn that idea into a national force.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, exactly right. In fact, Amway is just you know, uh,
it's the American way. That's where they came up with
the name. You know, they felt that everybody should have
an opportunity to have a business of their own. Everybody
should have an opportunity to to to be free to
pursue their their goals and be an entrepreneur and and
and engage in the free enterprise system. Uh. You know,
(04:33):
that's what Dad and his business partner Javen Andel, that's
what they lived. You know, they lived through the Depression,
they lived through World War two. Uh. And so after
that they just felt that, you know, that they wanted
to have this American dream shared with as many people
as possible. And that was there, that was their idea
of how to make it, how to make it happen. Uh.
(04:54):
And so we, you know, continue to base these you know,
this this work and the work of of the company
in how we continue to spread that not only through
our business operations, but that those ideas like what Dad
decided to write down in his book, and to continue
to build on these principles and find new ways to
(05:17):
apply them. Certainly we've applied them in our business, but
how do you apply them in other businesses? How do
you apply them in your family? How do you apply
them in life? How do you apply them as a
country so that we can stop drifting and build on
principles that are timeless, that are not just the you know,
not just the last, the latest and greatest new idea,
(05:40):
but ideas have have proven over time. That doesn't mean
that you're not innovative, that you're not creative, that you're
not finding new ways to apply these principles. But the
principles are timeless, and that's where if once you have
that foundation, then you can really do good work and
you can move yourself forward from there, whether it's starting
a business of your own, being an entrepreneur, whether it's
(06:02):
a career, whether it's a family. Well, in fact, you
know a lot of people would say that the family
is the most entrepreneurial thing you can do to start
a family and to try to you know, to raise
a family in that way. And so having four children
I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Having three, I agree with that. And it's always good
to have a very good manager. And that ain't me
in this family. Dynamic quarterback is my wife definitely for sure.
And I'm with you there, Matt, she has been so
for twenty plus years.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Let me ask you this, what do you think your
father would say about the state of America and the
shape of the American dream, and what do you think
about it all?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Sure, well, I think Dad would What would he say
about the state of America. I think he would say
that it's not where we want to be. Dad was optistic,
and I want to be optimistic too. And you look
at things, you know. I don't look at things to say, oh,
it's just terrible or get into a negative spiral at all.
I continue to go back to the principles that were
(07:10):
in the book, that we can be better than we are,
We can make improvements in our lives, and we can
do it for our country as well. And so we
want to make sure we stay optimistic and understand that
each and every person is created to be unique and
special and has gifts and talents, and like I said earlier,
has the ability to achieve great things. They have great potential.
(07:34):
And so I think what Dad would say, and you'll
have to forgive me, Matt, I would tend to echo
just about everything that my father said. I grew up
in that environment and sure, you know, worked in the
business my whole life. But I think we would we
would say, you know, we would stay optimistic, and we
would figure out how to get to work and what
(07:57):
do we need to do, Who do we need to
talk to, how do we need to interact, you know,
how do we bring people together, rally people around those
foundational ideas. Let's go back to the founding of our
country and what were we trying to achieve at that time,
how have we failed since then? What do we need
(08:18):
to do to correct it? And how do we get
to work together? And so I think it's a series of,
you know, of people coming together having these conversations. And
one of the reasons that he was, you know, you know,
so interested in writing the book was that it gave
him a reason to have conversations. And in our business,
(08:38):
we would interact with people continuously, so you could talk
about these issues, uh, and do it in a thoughtful way.
And you mentioned earlier my role with the National Constitution Center.
That's exactly what we're trying to do at the National
Constitution Center is to foster conversations and to really remind
(08:58):
ourselves that to be a citizen, to be a good citizen,
requires work. It requires us to think for ourselves, It
requires us to you know, to make decisions, to gather facts,
to have dialogue, to be curious, and to learn more
about maybe positions that don't naturally come to us, but
we want to know about them so we can evaluate
(09:20):
what we believe, uh, and that we can act accordingly.
So I think those are some of the things that uh,
you know that that I watched my dad do. So
I'm not just trying to interpret, you know, what he
would have thought. I really am trying to interpret what
I watched him do. Uh, you know, for you know,
majority of his life since the writing of his book
(09:41):
and and the years after that he was able to
be with us. So so that's those are the things
that come to mind.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
How much do you see America's educational system and in
so many quarters the failure of America's educational system in
where we are are today. I think most, if not many,
of our listeners would know that you're the brother in
law of the former Secretary of Education in Trump won,
(10:13):
Betsy DeVos, and she is and has been for a
long time a proponent of school choice, making sure that
there's a marketplace out there of ideas and places for
parents and students who are not succeeding for whatever reason
(10:35):
to find another school that the money should not follow
the institutions, but the students. How much do you think
education is involved in where we are today and perhaps
where we are today from where we are in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Five, sure, you know, first of all, I just want
to thank you for recognizing Betsy. We're so proud of
her and what she worked hard to accomplish. And she's
not done working, by the way, she continues to be
very active in this space because these believes in this
cause so so strongly, and to see that there are
(11:09):
places where children can learn, where they can explore, where
they can you know, they can find ways to you know,
to to grow and figure out, how to discern and
make their own decisions over time, and to create an
environment where it is not a top down in doctrination,
(11:33):
but an environment where where new information is revealed, where
you know, kids can grow, where they can be curious
and explore about subjects that are you know, that are
important to them or that come to them naturally, maybe
to build their gifts out in those sorts of directions.
(11:56):
You know, I think the nature of education, and particularly
we'll go to civics a little bit about how to
be a citizen, I think that's really been lacking. And
if you kind of connect what we're trying to do
with the Constitution Center, we have a tremendous amount of
effort that goes into connecting with students about what it's
(12:17):
like to be a citizen, what the history of our
country is, what are the great principles that we were
founded upon, what are the mistakes that we made, what
can we learn from how do we go forward? But
I think the whole idea of education, and especially the
way technology is allowing us to access information on a
regular basis and almost unlimited access to information, we should
(12:43):
be as curious and as innovative and how we pursue
education for the next generation of Americans as we are
about other things in our society or in our economy.
And that's what Betsy was trying to accomplish, to create
policies so that so that families could have more of
(13:04):
that ability to be curious and to explore in ways
that would best suit them and especially best suit their children.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And all with all, yeah, it does, yeah, absolutely. With
all of that said, I'm curious, what do you think
about you know, what we have seen really over the
last i think you can trace it back to a
couple of generations now where you have in the school
system and from your point of view of uh, you know,
co chair of the Constitution Center, there has been a
(13:35):
teaching method found in so many of our public schools
in particular, that is almost there's no almost about it,
ashamed of America, and it's and it's passed, and the
teaching of systemic racism. That racism is you know, a
feature of everything. It's it's it's injected into our institution.
(14:00):
It's down deep in our DNA, and it is, in
my estimation, a culture of victimhood that I think that
has set this country back. It has caused some real issues.
What do you think about all of all of that
as we deal with you know, modern America.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, I think it's hard to teach a subject that
you don't like. You know, So if you're trying to
teach somebody about something and you really don't like the
subject matter, it's hard to give the balanced view to
people as they go forward, and then you're subject to
again the latest idea of the day or the latest
(14:43):
grievance that may come along, you know, And I like
to go back you know, I think of Frederick Douglass
and you know and how he what he endured in
his life and how he came through, but how he
continued to believe in America. And he said, you know
these he talked about the Declaration, they will find those principles,
(15:05):
they're saving principles in the Declaration. Now they haven't been
applied properly. He dealt with that personally, but he believed
in those principles and in the foundation of our country,
and that we would learn and we would get better,
and we would get past the mistakes of our past.
(15:27):
And that's what you want to That's the environment you
want to create for a childhre's learning about America. You
want to be able to show the good, the bad,
everything about it. But again, compare it in a context
of history. Compare it in a context of what's happening
around the world, and you can see different the performance
(15:51):
of different countries, the quality of life, the freedoms that
we enjoy so easily here and in the United States
and so easy to take for granted, those freedoms don't
exist around the world. And that environment took time to create,
and even if it was done imperfectly, we can still
get better as we go forward. So I think in
(16:14):
trying to teach civics, and what we try to do
at the Constitution Center is to bring in that context,
to bring in that history, to try to connect it
to the thinking of ancient philosophers that were influential on
our founders. So these thoughts, these ideas of personal freedom
(16:35):
and of self government, have a rich tradition and history
that people have been thinking about this for untold generations.
And here we are living this experiment today, and we
have the chance to build on what has been accomplished
before us in the last two hundred and forty nine years.
(16:58):
We have a chance to renew our our energy towards
the two fiftieth in the next fifty years of think
what this generation can do. And I'd love for educators
to approach civics, to approach our history with that sort
of an attitude, so children could then be encouraged to
build on what's been done over the last two hundred
(17:20):
and forty five years or forty nine years and not
just find, you know, find ways to tear it down.
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Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'm not going to get into politics, but I do
want to talk about policy. In the last election cycle,
and we've been hearing this for a while, there are
presidential candidates who talked about mandatory civics in our schools.
I know that there are a lot of legislatures that
have or are debating that. What do you think about
that to make because listen, when I was growing up
(18:31):
two centuries ago now, it just seemed like civics was
You didn't have to say civics, it didn't have to
be the name of the course, but it was part
of everything I think that we did in our education
in good Old Wisconsin, my home state doesn't, has drifted
(18:51):
away from that quite frankly, and a lot of states have.
What do you think about mandatory civics being taught in
our schools?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Well, I think it's hard to imagine that we're not
teaching it, and so, you know, so the idea that
that we wouldn't take time to educate our children about
the environment the country in which they are living so
that they can maximize their potential just seems like a
tremendous disservice. And so, you know, as a country, especially
(19:21):
since you know the taxpayers are paying for this education,
certainly seems that you know, that putting it on the
list and making sure that people are educated, exposed to
this topic and walk through it would make sense to me.
I think from a policy standpoint, learning about our country
is important and being able to create and help the
(19:46):
next generation of Americans have that founding, have that understanding
so that they can participate and without it. My concern
is that people don't feel like they have you know,
that they don't don't have a stake in our future,
that they're just wandering around inside this country and they
(20:06):
really don't know the you know, the tremendous advantages that
they have by being in this country, and what they
can accomplish for themselves, for their community, and as you
see with many American innovations and many American you know,
businesses and operations, what you can do for the rest
of the world. So, you know, I think it's a
(20:28):
tremendous disservice not to have it there. And you're exactly right, Matt,
that you know, sometimes states drift away and this is
a perfect time to rediscover our north star and say
we need to have you know, these subjects addressed and
taught properly, so the next generation of citizens are prepared,
(20:52):
they're aware, they understand these sorts of things. And of
course you and I will go back into our own
personal histories of how we learned about civic and in
many ways not only from school, but how it was
discussed at home, how you talked about those things in
community and you waived the flag and you were proud
of it. And that's the drift that concerns me. So overall,
(21:16):
it's not just school. I'd remind all of us to
talk to our children, talk to our families, talk to
our neighbors, find ways to engage each other in these conversations.
You bet.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Our guest today is Doug Devass, American businessman, chairman of
the National Constitution Center. We're talking about America. The idea
is it in decline? Is it just drifting? That's the
concept here, and it's all tied into Doug Davos's father's
best selling book that came out fifty years ago, right
(21:48):
before the bi centennial year, American. Really the American foundational
idea is what the book is all about by Rich
DeVoss Believe, a timeless endorsement of American principles. Doug, we
talked about civics. Let's talk about civility and unfortunately the
(22:13):
lack thereof. Are you concerned about just how divided this
country is and how angry it's citizens, really truly angry
at citizens are not only with its politicians, with their politicians,
but with each other.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah. I'm tremendously concerned about that, you know. I And
the concern is the acceptance of violence and the acceptance
that if somebody disagrees with you, you can not debate,
not debate them, but physically, you know, uh, try to
(22:53):
hurt them. Yeah. I think that's a terrible track for
us to be in any ways. Certainly we can be
upset with the situation, or certainly we can be upset
with a decision that's made in our government, whatever the
case may be. But there's ways to address it. There's
the next election, there's the debate that you can have ahead,
(23:15):
there's a way to try to influence or get your
point across. And it seems to me that this lack
of civility, and it's been part of our country from
time to time in the past. It's been part of
the human experience that you resort to violence when you
don't think that you can find a pathway forward. But
(23:36):
I think it connects back to the previous discussion. Our
country has a pathway. There are ways to engage in
your country. There are ways to engage in your government
that allow you to have a voice, that allows you
to have influence, and that we should learn about those
and take advantage of those. But the breakdown of civility,
(23:57):
the verbal abuse, the physical abuse somebody thinks that they're
entitled to just because somebody else disagrees with them, is
unacceptable in what we want to try to do, and
especially at the Constitution Center and what we should all
try to do as citizens is model the good behavior,
and there's a lot of that too. We had a
(24:19):
recent event at our local Economic Club where we tried
to do that. We've brought the National Constitution Center in
to have different debates on certain topics, but we had
a group of people that would be together talking about
issues and understanding that we wanted to do it in
a civil way. And one of the things that the
(24:42):
Constitution Center does, and Jeff Rosen, who's the CEO there,
does a brilliant job when he brings groups together. Here's
a topic, do you agree with it or disagree with it?
And part of the hands will go up with they agree,
the other hands will say they disagree, and they'll have
the debate, and then afterwards he'll ask did anybody change
their mind? Very few people changed their mind, But he'll
(25:03):
ask then how many of you understand the other side better?
And that's where everybody raises their hand. And so if
we can walk away with an understanding, maybe I know
you didn't change my point of view or my perspective
or my belief system, but I understand where you're coming
from and I can get a better feeling that you
(25:25):
have a developed point of view as well. I may
not agree with it, but you have a right to
your point of view, just like I have a right
to my point of view. And so hopefully we can
model civility as we go forward.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
A little less than two hundred and fifty years ago,
and please don't make me do the math. You should
never never have a reporter do the math or an
English major, that's for sure. But a little less than
two hundred and fifty years ago, there are some brilliant
men who sat in a very very warm building in
(25:56):
Philadelphia in seventeen eight, and they, like you just said,
they had a lot of arguments. They had a lot
of debates. They were debating over what kind of government
that they would be, in effect delivering to their fellow citizens.
They're fellow Americans. Yes, and I believe it has been said,
(26:21):
whether he said it or not, I think it's great.
But Benjamin Franklin walked out after they finished up, and
he was asked by a woman, doctor Franklin, what kind
of government have you given us? And he said, a
republic if you can keep it. What are the threats now?
The biggest threats to that constitutional republic that those geniuses
(26:44):
put together nearly two hundred and fifty years ago.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I think the biggest threats are from the inside. I'm
I think the biggest threats to our keeping our republic
and making it more perfect are when we stop believing
that it can be more perfect, We stop believing that
it's worth fighting for, working for. You know, it's worth
the effort to think through issues, to listen to another perspective.
(27:13):
I'm you know, I don't see you know, the threats
coming from outside in the same way. Certainly there's threats
that we face. I get that, But I see the
greatest threat of any civilization or any society is when
the people that are part of it just don't feel
(27:35):
like it's important enough for them to really work on.
And you'll find that in different institutions, different businesses, different charities,
you know, churches, whatever, you know, it just kind of
falls apart because the people that were on the inside
didn't do the work necessary, didn't challenge themselves, didn't dream
(27:57):
big enough. And so I would come back to say,
our risk is internally is from the inside. So how
do we help Americans dream about what America can be?
And how do we create those dreams and those aspirations
(28:18):
and those goals based on those, in Frederick Douglas Douglas's words,
saving principles that we found in the Declaration and in
that structure that we was established by the Constitution. If
we go back to that incredible thinking, as you said,
(28:38):
we have so much to build on. We don't need
to recreate that wheel. What we need to do is say,
how are we going to make the next fifty years
dramatically better than the last fifty years, and what are
the things we need to work on together? Because this country,
this republic, is worth the effort. It's worth the time
(28:59):
and the talent and the treasure that it's going to
take for us to come together and move forward. And
we'll go a little left, we'll go a little right,
we'll go a little up, we'll go a little down.
It's never going to be a straight simple pathway. The
path to success is never simple or straightforward. So we're
going to have those bumps in the road, and maybe
(29:19):
we'll drift again. I hope we limit that. But if
we can say to ourselves, this is worth working on.
This is worth the time and attention that it takes.
Because as we look through history and we look around
the world, America is a shining example of what people
(29:40):
can do when they come around these powerful ideas.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I don't want to speak for you and your father,
but it seems to me that free markets, free people
is central to what your father was about and what
you continue in his legacy and building your own these years.
Say you know that that relies on the American system,
(30:05):
free enterprise, free markets, Like we talked about, a capitalist structure.
What do you think about the turn, particularly from younger Americans,
away from that system and into socialism in some cases,
you know, just Marxism. I speak directly of some some
(30:29):
recent events in New York City. Certainly, you know the
mayor of the incoming mayor of New York City is
an avowed socialist with socialist principles. What do what do
you see from you know, coming from all of that.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Well, you know, first of all, I always kind of
find it a little it's troubling, uh And every time
somebody espousing those ideas as well, it's never worked before,
and it's never worked anywhere else. But this time we're
going to do it. Time it's going to work, you know,
And that's why I would come back to Free Enterprise
and say, well, that system has been proven to work
(31:07):
throughout time and around the world, you know, and it's
worked pretty well here. Why don't we just have the debate.
Why don't we just have that conversation? And so many times,
you know, people will jump to their frustration that their
their personal situation and hope somebody else will fix it.
(31:28):
And we have found in life and over time that
just doesn't happen. You have the capability and the capacity
to help yourself, and why would you do something or
why would you allow somebody else to do something for
you that you can do for yourself. Will you fail absolutely,
(31:50):
will you struggle, absolutely, But when you take that step
forward and you achieve a goal, will you be satisfied. Absolutely,
You'll have that satisfaction, that glow that from the inside
out that you've accomplished something that you're starting to live
(32:11):
your life with purpose and meaning. So I think we
need to continue to sell Free Enterprise. That was one
of my dad's speeches selling America is talk about these
systems and what it's accomplished. One of the things he
did in the book, and again it was fifty years ago,
so he was comparing it to Russia. Just look at
our economic output, look at the quality of life, look
at the advances in medicine that we've been able to
(32:32):
achieve here. And he compared it to Russia at that
time and say, if we wanted to match Russia, we
need to get rid of you know, half of our cars,
half of our single family homes, you know, whatever the
whatever the right statistics were, but you'd have to dramatically
reduce the quality of life and the production of America
to match what other people would say was the greatest
(32:55):
system going forward. It isn't by any measure. It never
stands up. And so we need to stand up call
for free enterprise, and we need to understand that free
enterprise it is an economic system. But it's not only that.
It really speaks to the entrepreneurial spirit that we all have.
And so there's a lot of people I know in
(33:16):
our community who are incredible free enterprise people. They do
it with the school they started, they do it with
a charity that they started, they do it with a
church that they're involved with. They do it with a
neighborhood association that they got into they're coaching. These are
people that take this idea of free enterprise and understand
it's not limited just in an economic sense. And so
(33:41):
when you broaden your perspective and you get real about
comparing it to other systems, you'll soon recognize that we
were created and with the ability to create things. And
one of the things that we can create is, well,
he is prosperity. We can do that, and if it's
(34:04):
not working for somebody, then how do we help them
figure out how to make it work for them so
that they can enjoy that prosperity too. But it's going
to take work, and if someone's unwilling to do the work,
it will be a challenge. But I think we have
to continue to advocate powerflee and never be ashamed of
(34:24):
the free enterprise system and all the advances that it's
added to our quality of life and the prosperity of
our nation. And with that prosperity, you have the ability
to be generous to others. You know. That's one of
the things Dad always talked about is you know, he
was recognized for being a great philanthropist, and he would
say often says, well, you can't be a great philanthropist
(34:45):
without having a great business. You know, you better be
able to create income if you want to share it,
and certainly we should share it. Certainly, America is the
most generous country in the world, dramatically in the philanthropy
and the amount of money that's given away in America
(35:07):
every year. So those things go hand in hand, and
so it's it's taking the time to make the comparison,
to talk really, to really talk about it, and to
be proud of capitalism, of free enterprise and what it
does in the lives of people throughout our country and
around the world.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I think the digital age, and this is not a
controversial statement by any means, has been a huge boot
for society, particularly the West. I think it has presented
its challenge, its share of challenges too. I think part
of that is it's taken away our rugged individualism. And
(35:49):
you know, I'm not I'm not casting any stones and
glasshouses here. You know, my dad used to do all
of the plumbing and the work around the house. I
call out for that now because I never did have
a talent for that kind of thing. But you know,
he probably if he were with us, he would say, yeah,
(36:12):
you should have learned a little bit more, you should
have paid.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Attention to it.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
But with all of that said, you know, we've talked
a lot about the challenges and you know the problems
that we face. What do you think the opportunities are
as we move forward? And I say that in the
digital age light, are you concerned about artificial intelligence? Are
(36:40):
you concerned about you know, the as we've had for
many years, the shifts of where the jobs are, where
the economy is going. Does that concern you?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
I don't know that. I'd say it concerns me. I'd
say it's an issue that needs to be addressed and
dealt with. I think the future is on agable. I
think we can't even we can't even dream of what
the future can be and how good it can be.
And we need to be engaged in technology with whatever
(37:13):
the technology tools are that are being developed, so that
we can use these tools in the right way. And
so I'll pick a little bit on social media that
when it came, and I'll blame myself when it was
being developed in impacting our society. As a parent, I
(37:35):
didn't know what to tell my children. I didn't know
what it was they were doing it. I didn't know
the impact it was having. But you see people now
and trying to find their way around and say, what
are we going to do with this? How are we
going to bend the curve a little bit so that
this technology is going to be used in a positive
or productive way and certainly not in a negative way.
And I think that applies to technology going forward, where
(37:57):
I've heard from various organizations to say we need to
involved with technology so that we can make sure it's
used in the way that helps people, as opposed to
use in some more sinister fashion in a way that
hurts people. And it's going to be displacement. There's going
to be a lot of disruption and displacement because of it.
And I would just again look to history, where as
(38:20):
you said, you know, I'm right with you, Matt. I'm
not that handy around the house either. I haven't learned
some of those skills. I'm sure my father would be,
you know, we would want to have taught me that
a little bit more, or maybe I should have listened
a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
That's my issue.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, I should have I should have listened more. But
if you look through history, we found our ways through
when we when we were primarily in the agriculture economy.
We found your way to an industrial economy, we found
a way into a technology economy, and I think we
find our way. I think the ability for us to
know to work through challenges or work through disruption to find,
(38:59):
you know, the next way forward will be a challenge,
but it's a challenge that we can address and a
chalente that we can overcome.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Final question, I'm sorry, go ahead, No.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
No, I think we can so, yes, I think about it,
but I think I think we want to embrace We
want to embrace technology. We want to figure out how
to use it the right way.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Final question for you, and that is this keeping the
Constitution in mind, those extremely enlightened individuals in that hot room,
you know, nearly two hundred and fifty years ago, what
do you think they would say about the America two
(39:38):
hundred and fifty years in the America that they founded.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Well, what a great question, you know. Well, I wish
I would could have been in that room. I wish
I could have heard some of those discussions of what
they were hoping for. And I've got to believe that
on the whole they would be you know, they would
be pleased, but they would probably want to challenge us
(40:07):
to be better. I think those words are more perfect
were chosen for a good reason. And at the at
the National Constitution Center, they go back in some of
the early early drafts of the Constitution where it didn't
say we the people of the United States of America,
said we the people of the states of Massachusetts or
(40:28):
you know all the you know the states that were
there because we the people of the United States of
America and in order to form that more perfect union.
I think they would know that we would make mistakes
and that we would stumble in some ways, but I
would I would think that they would encourage us to
(40:51):
keep this experiment going and make it better. I think
they would encourage us to find the the right pathway forward.
I think they'd be cheering for us, and sure, like
you know, like generations before, they might shake their heads
at some of the things that we've done, you know,
(41:13):
some of the things that where we drifted away, But
I think they would encourage us to come back and
build on the principles that they put in place, because
those principles were saving principles. They were timeless and if
we would take the time and attention to focus on them,
I think they would say, we can make this country
more perfect, you know, going forward in the next fifty years,
(41:36):
and that's what we should try to do.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I think they might also say, what are these screens
and why are there images of people on there? And
they would say things like that. I think they would
be you know, the scientific minds like Franklin and Jefferson
in particular, would be astounded by, you know what their
progeny that's created over the years. Well, a fascinating conversation
(42:00):
on a fascinating nation, a republic if you can keep it.
And just a final point on that, Doug, you know,
there was a time in this country where we used
to say the United States are. We have long since
said the United States is. And that's the difference. And
the unity question continues to be the issue that we
(42:24):
strive for.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, absolutely, bringing us together that one nation ended. So
you know, it's vital that we find that pathway forward together.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Indeed, it's all in the book by Doug's father, Rich DeVos.
Believe a timeless endorsement of American principles. The fiftieth anniversary
can find it everywhere now thanks to my guest today,
Doug DeVos, American businessman and chairman of the National Constitution Center.
You've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour.
(42:55):
I'm Matt Kittle, Senior elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll
be back soon with more or until then, stay lovers
of freedom and anxious for the fray.
And we are back with another edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior Elections correspondent at The
Federalist and your experienced sherpa on today's Quest for Knowledge.
As always, you can email the show at radio at
the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST,
make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and
(00:39):
of course to the premium version of our website as well.
Our guest today is Doug DeVoss, American businessman and chairman
of the National Constitution Center. He says like his father
did fifty years ago, probably said it more than that,
but he says America isn't in decline, just drifting. Doug,
(01:05):
thank you so much for joining us on this edition
of the Federalist Radio Hour.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Matt, it's an honor to be here and I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I think this is an exciting topic. I think it's fascinating.
It was when your father's book came out, and for
those not familiar with Rich Devas's book in nineteen seventy five,
it's called Believe, a Timeless endorsement of American Principles. This
(01:32):
is the fiftieth anniversary edition that is coming out this year.
And it's interesting to note that this came out at
the bi centennial year and now here we are, Doug
two hundred and fifty years into this great experiment of
this exceptional republic. Tell us a little bit about the
(01:55):
book and the principles that are still so valid today.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Absolutely, and Matt, thanks for giving me the opportunity to
talk about this, because, as you said, this experiment that
we have of self governance or self government is quite extraordinary,
and it's something that you know that my father lived
into and that we've lived into. And we know we're
not a perfect country, but we know we're always trying
(02:22):
to be more perfect. And it's like all of us
in life, and as time goes on, it's easy to
kind of get further and further away from the founding principles,
the founding values of any organization, and that happens as
a country as well. So that's why I use afraid
I think it's easy to be drifting, but it's important
to remind ourselves of what our course should be, what
(02:45):
our target should be, and what that north star looks like.
And so you know, Dad talked about elements that were
really important to him, you know, belief in people and
the potential of every person of a positive attitude, of
belief in God, in having a faith base in your
life at least challenging yourself with that decision. Belief in family,
(03:07):
belief in free enterprise, accountability, some of those core issues
that were so important in his life, and of course
belief in America. And so we continue to believe in
America and challenge ourselves as citizens to be paying attention
and to be challenging ourselves to say, what can we
(03:29):
do to be part of making America more perfect.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Of course, that book that we're talking about, Believe a
Timeless Endorsement of American Principles, was written by the co
founder of Amway, Rich de Voss. You, sir, are the
co chairman co chair of Amway. Your family has definitely
lived the American dream like so many other families. You
(03:56):
started off with a guy or a gal with an idea. Huh,
took that idea and thanks to the American system, he
was able to turn that idea into a national force.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, exactly right. In fact, Amway is just you know, uh,
it's the American way. That's where they came up with
the name. You know, they felt that everybody should have
an opportunity to have a business of their own. Everybody
should have an opportunity to to to be free to
pursue their their goals and be an entrepreneur and and
and engage in the free enterprise system. Uh. You know,
(04:33):
that's what Dad and his business partner Javen Andel, that's
what they lived. You know, they lived through the Depression,
they lived through World War two. Uh. And so after
that they just felt that, you know, that they wanted
to have this American dream shared with as many people
as possible. And that was there, that was their idea
of how to make it, how to make it happen. Uh.
(04:54):
And so we, you know, continue to base these you know,
this this work and the work of of the company
in how we continue to spread that not only through
our business operations, but that those ideas like what Dad
decided to write down in his book, and to continue
to build on these principles and find new ways to
(05:17):
apply them. Certainly we've applied them in our business, but
how do you apply them in other businesses? How do
you apply them in your family? How do you apply
them in life? How do you apply them as a
country so that we can stop drifting and build on
principles that are timeless, that are not just the you know,
not just the last, the latest and greatest new idea,
(05:40):
but ideas have have proven over time. That doesn't mean
that you're not innovative, that you're not creative, that you're
not finding new ways to apply these principles. But the
principles are timeless, and that's where if once you have
that foundation, then you can really do good work and
you can move yourself forward from there, whether it's starting
a business of your own, being an entrepreneur, whether it's
(06:02):
a career, whether it's a family. Well, in fact, you
know a lot of people would say that the family
is the most entrepreneurial thing you can do to start
a family and to try to you know, to raise
a family in that way. And so having four children
I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Having three, I agree with that. And it's always good
to have a very good manager. And that ain't me
in this family. Dynamic quarterback is my wife definitely for sure.
And I'm with you there, Matt, she has been so
for twenty plus years.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Let me ask you this, what do you think your
father would say about the state of America and the
shape of the American dream, and what do you think
about it all?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Sure, well, I think Dad would What would he say
about the state of America. I think he would say
that it's not where we want to be. Dad was optistic,
and I want to be optimistic too. And you look
at things, you know. I don't look at things to say, oh,
it's just terrible or get into a negative spiral at all.
I continue to go back to the principles that were
(07:10):
in the book, that we can be better than we are,
We can make improvements in our lives, and we can
do it for our country as well. And so we
want to make sure we stay optimistic and understand that
each and every person is created to be unique and
special and has gifts and talents, and like I said earlier,
has the ability to achieve great things. They have great potential.
(07:34):
And so I think what Dad would say, and you'll
have to forgive me, Matt, I would tend to echo
just about everything that my father said. I grew up
in that environment and sure, you know, worked in the
business my whole life. But I think we would we
would say, you know, we would stay optimistic, and we
would figure out how to get to work and what
(07:57):
do we need to do, Who do we need to
talk to, how do we need to interact, you know,
how do we bring people together, rally people around those
foundational ideas. Let's go back to the founding of our
country and what were we trying to achieve at that time,
how have we failed since then? What do we need
(08:18):
to do to correct it? And how do we get
to work together? And so I think it's a series of,
you know, of people coming together having these conversations. And
one of the reasons that he was, you know, you know,
so interested in writing the book was that it gave
him a reason to have conversations. And in our business,
(08:38):
we would interact with people continuously, so you could talk
about these issues, uh, and do it in a thoughtful way.
And you mentioned earlier my role with the National Constitution Center.
That's exactly what we're trying to do at the National
Constitution Center is to foster conversations and to really remind
(08:58):
ourselves that to be a citizen, to be a good citizen,
requires work. It requires us to think for ourselves, It
requires us to you know, to make decisions, to gather facts,
to have dialogue, to be curious, and to learn more
about maybe positions that don't naturally come to us, but
we want to know about them so we can evaluate
(09:20):
what we believe, uh, and that we can act accordingly.
So I think those are some of the things that uh,
you know that that I watched my dad do. So
I'm not just trying to interpret, you know, what he
would have thought. I really am trying to interpret what
I watched him do. Uh, you know, for you know,
majority of his life since the writing of his book
(09:41):
and and the years after that he was able to
be with us. So so that's those are the things
that come to mind.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
How much do you see America's educational system and in
so many quarters the failure of America's educational system in
where we are are today. I think most, if not many,
of our listeners would know that you're the brother in
law of the former Secretary of Education in Trump won,
(10:13):
Betsy DeVos, and she is and has been for a
long time a proponent of school choice, making sure that
there's a marketplace out there of ideas and places for
parents and students who are not succeeding for whatever reason
(10:35):
to find another school that the money should not follow
the institutions, but the students. How much do you think
education is involved in where we are today and perhaps
where we are today from where we are in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Five, sure, you know, first of all, I just want
to thank you for recognizing Betsy. We're so proud of
her and what she worked hard to accomplish. And she's
not done working, by the way, she continues to be
very active in this space because these believes in this
cause so so strongly, and to see that there are
(11:09):
places where children can learn, where they can explore, where
they can you know, they can find ways to you know,
to to grow and figure out, how to discern and
make their own decisions over time, and to create an
environment where it is not a top down in doctrination,
(11:33):
but an environment where where new information is revealed, where
you know, kids can grow, where they can be curious
and explore about subjects that are you know, that are
important to them or that come to them naturally, maybe
to build their gifts out in those sorts of directions.
(11:56):
You know, I think the nature of education, and particularly
we'll go to civics a little bit about how to
be a citizen, I think that's really been lacking. And
if you kind of connect what we're trying to do
with the Constitution Center, we have a tremendous amount of
effort that goes into connecting with students about what it's
(12:17):
like to be a citizen, what the history of our
country is, what are the great principles that we were
founded upon, what are the mistakes that we made, what
can we learn from how do we go forward? But
I think the whole idea of education, and especially the
way technology is allowing us to access information on a
regular basis and almost unlimited access to information, we should
(12:43):
be as curious and as innovative and how we pursue
education for the next generation of Americans as we are
about other things in our society or in our economy.
And that's what Betsy was trying to accomplish, to create
policies so that so that families could have more of
(13:04):
that ability to be curious and to explore in ways
that would best suit them and especially best suit their children.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And all with all, yeah, it does, yeah, absolutely. With
all of that said, I'm curious, what do you think
about you know, what we have seen really over the
last i think you can trace it back to a
couple of generations now where you have in the school
system and from your point of view of uh, you know,
co chair of the Constitution Center, there has been a
(13:35):
teaching method found in so many of our public schools
in particular, that is almost there's no almost about it,
ashamed of America, and it's and it's passed, and the
teaching of systemic racism. That racism is you know, a
feature of everything. It's it's it's injected into our institution.
(14:00):
It's down deep in our DNA, and it is, in
my estimation, a culture of victimhood that I think that
has set this country back. It has caused some real issues.
What do you think about all of all of that
as we deal with you know, modern America.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, I think it's hard to teach a subject that
you don't like. You know, So if you're trying to
teach somebody about something and you really don't like the
subject matter, it's hard to give the balanced view to
people as they go forward, and then you're subject to
again the latest idea of the day or the latest
(14:43):
grievance that may come along, you know, And I like
to go back you know, I think of Frederick Douglass
and you know and how he what he endured in
his life and how he came through, but how he
continued to believe in America. And he said, you know
these he talked about the Declaration, they will find those principles,
(15:05):
they're saving principles in the Declaration. Now they haven't been
applied properly. He dealt with that personally, but he believed
in those principles and in the foundation of our country,
and that we would learn and we would get better,
and we would get past the mistakes of our past.
(15:27):
And that's what you want to That's the environment you
want to create for a childhre's learning about America. You
want to be able to show the good, the bad,
everything about it. But again, compare it in a context
of history. Compare it in a context of what's happening
around the world, and you can see different the performance
(15:51):
of different countries, the quality of life, the freedoms that
we enjoy so easily here and in the United States
and so easy to take for granted, those freedoms don't
exist around the world. And that environment took time to create,
and even if it was done imperfectly, we can still
get better as we go forward. So I think in
(16:14):
trying to teach civics, and what we try to do
at the Constitution Center is to bring in that context,
to bring in that history, to try to connect it
to the thinking of ancient philosophers that were influential on
our founders. So these thoughts, these ideas of personal freedom
(16:35):
and of self government, have a rich tradition and history
that people have been thinking about this for untold generations.
And here we are living this experiment today, and we
have the chance to build on what has been accomplished
before us in the last two hundred and forty nine years.
(16:58):
We have a chance to renew our our energy towards
the two fiftieth in the next fifty years of think
what this generation can do. And I'd love for educators
to approach civics, to approach our history with that sort
of an attitude, so children could then be encouraged to
build on what's been done over the last two hundred
(17:20):
and forty five years or forty nine years and not
just find, you know, find ways to tear it down.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
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Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'm not going to get into politics, but I do
want to talk about policy. In the last election cycle,
and we've been hearing this for a while, there are
presidential candidates who talked about mandatory civics in our schools.
I know that there are a lot of legislatures that
have or are debating that. What do you think about
that to make because listen, when I was growing up
(18:31):
two centuries ago now, it just seemed like civics was
You didn't have to say civics, it didn't have to
be the name of the course, but it was part
of everything I think that we did in our education
in good Old Wisconsin, my home state doesn't, has drifted
(18:51):
away from that quite frankly, and a lot of states have.
What do you think about mandatory civics being taught in
our schools?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Well, I think it's hard to imagine that we're not
teaching it, and so, you know, so the idea that
that we wouldn't take time to educate our children about
the environment the country in which they are living so
that they can maximize their potential just seems like a
tremendous disservice. And so, you know, as a country, especially
(19:21):
since you know the taxpayers are paying for this education,
certainly seems that you know, that putting it on the
list and making sure that people are educated, exposed to
this topic and walk through it would make sense to me.
I think from a policy standpoint, learning about our country
is important and being able to create and help the
(19:46):
next generation of Americans have that founding, have that understanding
so that they can participate and without it. My concern
is that people don't feel like they have you know,
that they don't don't have a stake in our future,
that they're just wandering around inside this country and they
(20:06):
really don't know the you know, the tremendous advantages that
they have by being in this country, and what they
can accomplish for themselves, for their community, and as you
see with many American innovations and many American you know,
businesses and operations, what you can do for the rest
of the world. So, you know, I think it's a
(20:28):
tremendous disservice not to have it there. And you're exactly right, Matt,
that you know, sometimes states drift away and this is
a perfect time to rediscover our north star and say
we need to have you know, these subjects addressed and
taught properly, so the next generation of citizens are prepared,
(20:52):
they're aware, they understand these sorts of things. And of
course you and I will go back into our own
personal histories of how we learned about civic and in
many ways not only from school, but how it was
discussed at home, how you talked about those things in
community and you waived the flag and you were proud
of it. And that's the drift that concerns me. So overall,
(21:16):
it's not just school. I'd remind all of us to
talk to our children, talk to our families, talk to
our neighbors, find ways to engage each other in these conversations.
You bet.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Our guest today is Doug Devass, American businessman, chairman of
the National Constitution Center. We're talking about America. The idea
is it in decline? Is it just drifting? That's the
concept here, and it's all tied into Doug Davos's father's
best selling book that came out fifty years ago, right
(21:48):
before the bi centennial year, American. Really the American foundational
idea is what the book is all about by Rich
DeVoss Believe, a timeless endorsement of American principles. Doug, we
talked about civics. Let's talk about civility and unfortunately the
(22:13):
lack thereof. Are you concerned about just how divided this
country is and how angry it's citizens, really truly angry
at citizens are not only with its politicians, with their politicians,
but with each other.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah. I'm tremendously concerned about that, you know. I And
the concern is the acceptance of violence and the acceptance
that if somebody disagrees with you, you can not debate,
not debate them, but physically, you know, uh, try to
(22:53):
hurt them. Yeah. I think that's a terrible track for
us to be in any ways. Certainly we can be
upset with the situation, or certainly we can be upset
with a decision that's made in our government, whatever the
case may be. But there's ways to address it. There's
the next election, there's the debate that you can have ahead,
(23:15):
there's a way to try to influence or get your
point across. And it seems to me that this lack
of civility, and it's been part of our country from
time to time in the past. It's been part of
the human experience that you resort to violence when you
don't think that you can find a pathway forward. But
(23:36):
I think it connects back to the previous discussion. Our
country has a pathway. There are ways to engage in
your country. There are ways to engage in your government
that allow you to have a voice, that allows you
to have influence, and that we should learn about those
and take advantage of those. But the breakdown of civility,
(23:57):
the verbal abuse, the physical abuse somebody thinks that they're
entitled to just because somebody else disagrees with them, is
unacceptable in what we want to try to do, and
especially at the Constitution Center and what we should all
try to do as citizens is model the good behavior,
and there's a lot of that too. We had a
(24:19):
recent event at our local Economic Club where we tried
to do that. We've brought the National Constitution Center in
to have different debates on certain topics, but we had
a group of people that would be together talking about
issues and understanding that we wanted to do it in
a civil way. And one of the things that the
(24:42):
Constitution Center does, and Jeff Rosen, who's the CEO there,
does a brilliant job when he brings groups together. Here's
a topic, do you agree with it or disagree with it?
And part of the hands will go up with they agree,
the other hands will say they disagree, and they'll have
the debate, and then afterwards he'll ask did anybody change
their mind? Very few people changed their mind, But he'll
(25:03):
ask then how many of you understand the other side better?
And that's where everybody raises their hand. And so if
we can walk away with an understanding, maybe I know
you didn't change my point of view or my perspective
or my belief system, but I understand where you're coming
from and I can get a better feeling that you
(25:25):
have a developed point of view as well. I may
not agree with it, but you have a right to
your point of view, just like I have a right
to my point of view. And so hopefully we can
model civility as we go forward.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
A little less than two hundred and fifty years ago,
and please don't make me do the math. You should
never never have a reporter do the math or an
English major, that's for sure. But a little less than
two hundred and fifty years ago, there are some brilliant
men who sat in a very very warm building in
(25:56):
Philadelphia in seventeen eight, and they, like you just said,
they had a lot of arguments. They had a lot
of debates. They were debating over what kind of government
that they would be, in effect delivering to their fellow citizens.
They're fellow Americans. Yes, and I believe it has been said,
(26:21):
whether he said it or not, I think it's great.
But Benjamin Franklin walked out after they finished up, and
he was asked by a woman, doctor Franklin, what kind
of government have you given us? And he said, a
republic if you can keep it. What are the threats now?
The biggest threats to that constitutional republic that those geniuses
(26:44):
put together nearly two hundred and fifty years ago.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I think the biggest threats are from the inside. I'm
I think the biggest threats to our keeping our republic
and making it more perfect are when we stop believing
that it can be more perfect, We stop believing that
it's worth fighting for, working for. You know, it's worth
the effort to think through issues, to listen to another perspective.
(27:13):
I'm you know, I don't see you know, the threats
coming from outside in the same way. Certainly there's threats
that we face. I get that, But I see the
greatest threat of any civilization or any society is when
the people that are part of it just don't feel
(27:35):
like it's important enough for them to really work on.
And you'll find that in different institutions, different businesses, different charities,
you know, churches, whatever, you know, it just kind of
falls apart because the people that were on the inside
didn't do the work necessary, didn't challenge themselves, didn't dream
(27:57):
big enough. And so I would come back to say,
our risk is internally is from the inside. So how
do we help Americans dream about what America can be?
And how do we create those dreams and those aspirations
(28:18):
and those goals based on those, in Frederick Douglas Douglas's words,
saving principles that we found in the Declaration and in
that structure that we was established by the Constitution. If
we go back to that incredible thinking, as you said,
(28:38):
we have so much to build on. We don't need
to recreate that wheel. What we need to do is say,
how are we going to make the next fifty years
dramatically better than the last fifty years, and what are
the things we need to work on together? Because this country,
this republic, is worth the effort. It's worth the time
(28:59):
and the talent and the treasure that it's going to
take for us to come together and move forward. And
we'll go a little left, we'll go a little right,
we'll go a little up, we'll go a little down.
It's never going to be a straight simple pathway. The
path to success is never simple or straightforward. So we're
going to have those bumps in the road, and maybe
(29:19):
we'll drift again. I hope we limit that. But if
we can say to ourselves, this is worth working on.
This is worth the time and attention that it takes.
Because as we look through history and we look around
the world, America is a shining example of what people
(29:40):
can do when they come around these powerful ideas.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I don't want to speak for you and your father,
but it seems to me that free markets, free people
is central to what your father was about and what
you continue in his legacy and building your own these years.
Say you know that that relies on the American system,
(30:05):
free enterprise, free markets, Like we talked about, a capitalist structure.
What do you think about the turn, particularly from younger Americans,
away from that system and into socialism in some cases,
you know, just Marxism. I speak directly of some some
(30:29):
recent events in New York City. Certainly, you know the
mayor of the incoming mayor of New York City is
an avowed socialist with socialist principles. What do what do
you see from you know, coming from all of that.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Well, you know, first of all, I always kind of
find it a little it's troubling, uh And every time
somebody espousing those ideas as well, it's never worked before,
and it's never worked anywhere else. But this time we're
going to do it. Time it's going to work, you know,
And that's why I would come back to Free Enterprise
and say, well, that system has been proven to work
(31:07):
throughout time and around the world, you know, and it's
worked pretty well here. Why don't we just have the debate.
Why don't we just have that conversation? And so many times,
you know, people will jump to their frustration that their
their personal situation and hope somebody else will fix it.
(31:28):
And we have found in life and over time that
just doesn't happen. You have the capability and the capacity
to help yourself, and why would you do something or
why would you allow somebody else to do something for
you that you can do for yourself. Will you fail absolutely,
(31:50):
will you struggle, absolutely, But when you take that step
forward and you achieve a goal, will you be satisfied. Absolutely,
You'll have that satisfaction, that glow that from the inside
out that you've accomplished something that you're starting to live
(32:11):
your life with purpose and meaning. So I think we
need to continue to sell Free Enterprise. That was one
of my dad's speeches selling America is talk about these
systems and what it's accomplished. One of the things he
did in the book, and again it was fifty years ago,
so he was comparing it to Russia. Just look at
our economic output, look at the quality of life, look
at the advances in medicine that we've been able to
(32:32):
achieve here. And he compared it to Russia at that
time and say, if we wanted to match Russia, we
need to get rid of you know, half of our cars,
half of our single family homes, you know, whatever the
whatever the right statistics were, but you'd have to dramatically
reduce the quality of life and the production of America
to match what other people would say was the greatest
(32:55):
system going forward. It isn't by any measure. It never
stands up. And so we need to stand up call
for free enterprise, and we need to understand that free
enterprise it is an economic system. But it's not only that.
It really speaks to the entrepreneurial spirit that we all have.
And so there's a lot of people I know in
(33:16):
our community who are incredible free enterprise people. They do
it with the school they started, they do it with
a charity that they started, they do it with a
church that they're involved with. They do it with a
neighborhood association that they got into they're coaching. These are
people that take this idea of free enterprise and understand
it's not limited just in an economic sense. And so
(33:41):
when you broaden your perspective and you get real about
comparing it to other systems, you'll soon recognize that we
were created and with the ability to create things. And
one of the things that we can create is, well,
he is prosperity. We can do that, and if it's
(34:04):
not working for somebody, then how do we help them
figure out how to make it work for them so
that they can enjoy that prosperity too. But it's going
to take work, and if someone's unwilling to do the work,
it will be a challenge. But I think we have
to continue to advocate powerflee and never be ashamed of
(34:24):
the free enterprise system and all the advances that it's
added to our quality of life and the prosperity of
our nation. And with that prosperity, you have the ability
to be generous to others. You know. That's one of
the things Dad always talked about is you know, he
was recognized for being a great philanthropist, and he would
say often says, well, you can't be a great philanthropist
(34:45):
without having a great business. You know, you better be
able to create income if you want to share it,
and certainly we should share it. Certainly, America is the
most generous country in the world, dramatically in the philanthropy
and the amount of money that's given away in America
(35:07):
every year. So those things go hand in hand, and
so it's it's taking the time to make the comparison,
to talk really, to really talk about it, and to
be proud of capitalism, of free enterprise and what it
does in the lives of people throughout our country and
around the world.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I think the digital age, and this is not a
controversial statement by any means, has been a huge boot
for society, particularly the West. I think it has presented
its challenge, its share of challenges too. I think part
of that is it's taken away our rugged individualism. And
(35:49):
you know, I'm not I'm not casting any stones and
glasshouses here. You know, my dad used to do all
of the plumbing and the work around the house. I
call out for that now because I never did have
a talent for that kind of thing. But you know,
he probably if he were with us, he would say, yeah,
(36:12):
you should have learned a little bit more, you should
have paid.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Attention to it.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
But with all of that said, you know, we've talked
a lot about the challenges and you know the problems
that we face. What do you think the opportunities are
as we move forward? And I say that in the
digital age light, are you concerned about artificial intelligence? Are
(36:40):
you concerned about you know, the as we've had for
many years, the shifts of where the jobs are, where
the economy is going. Does that concern you?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
I don't know that. I'd say it concerns me. I'd
say it's an issue that needs to be addressed and
dealt with. I think the future is on agable. I
think we can't even we can't even dream of what
the future can be and how good it can be.
And we need to be engaged in technology with whatever
(37:13):
the technology tools are that are being developed, so that
we can use these tools in the right way. And
so I'll pick a little bit on social media that
when it came, and I'll blame myself when it was
being developed in impacting our society. As a parent, I
(37:35):
didn't know what to tell my children. I didn't know
what it was they were doing it. I didn't know
the impact it was having. But you see people now
and trying to find their way around and say, what
are we going to do with this? How are we
going to bend the curve a little bit so that
this technology is going to be used in a positive
or productive way and certainly not in a negative way.
And I think that applies to technology going forward, where
(37:57):
I've heard from various organizations to say we need to
involved with technology so that we can make sure it's
used in the way that helps people, as opposed to
use in some more sinister fashion in a way that
hurts people. And it's going to be displacement. There's going
to be a lot of disruption and displacement because of it.
And I would just again look to history, where as
(38:20):
you said, you know, I'm right with you, Matt. I'm
not that handy around the house either. I haven't learned
some of those skills. I'm sure my father would be,
you know, we would want to have taught me that
a little bit more, or maybe I should have listened
a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
That's my issue.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, I should have I should have listened more. But
if you look through history, we found our ways through
when we when we were primarily in the agriculture economy.
We found your way to an industrial economy, we found
a way into a technology economy, and I think we
find our way. I think the ability for us to
know to work through challenges or work through disruption to find,
(38:59):
you know, the next way forward will be a challenge,
but it's a challenge that we can address and a
chalente that we can overcome.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Final question, I'm sorry, go ahead, No.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
No, I think we can so, yes, I think about it,
but I think I think we want to embrace We
want to embrace technology. We want to figure out how
to use it the right way.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Final question for you, and that is this keeping the
Constitution in mind, those extremely enlightened individuals in that hot room,
you know, nearly two hundred and fifty years ago, what
do you think they would say about the America two
(39:38):
hundred and fifty years in the America that they founded.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Well, what a great question, you know. Well, I wish
I would could have been in that room. I wish
I could have heard some of those discussions of what
they were hoping for. And I've got to believe that
on the whole they would be you know, they would
be pleased, but they would probably want to challenge us
(40:07):
to be better. I think those words are more perfect
were chosen for a good reason. And at the at
the National Constitution Center, they go back in some of
the early early drafts of the Constitution where it didn't
say we the people of the United States of America,
said we the people of the states of Massachusetts or
(40:28):
you know all the you know the states that were
there because we the people of the United States of
America and in order to form that more perfect union.
I think they would know that we would make mistakes
and that we would stumble in some ways, but I
would I would think that they would encourage us to
(40:51):
keep this experiment going and make it better. I think
they would encourage us to find the the right pathway forward.
I think they'd be cheering for us, and sure, like
you know, like generations before, they might shake their heads
at some of the things that we've done, you know,
(41:13):
some of the things that where we drifted away, But
I think they would encourage us to come back and
build on the principles that they put in place, because
those principles were saving principles. They were timeless and if
we would take the time and attention to focus on them,
I think they would say, we can make this country
more perfect, you know, going forward in the next fifty years,
(41:36):
and that's what we should try to do.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I think they might also say, what are these screens
and why are there images of people on there? And
they would say things like that. I think they would
be you know, the scientific minds like Franklin and Jefferson
in particular, would be astounded by, you know what their
progeny that's created over the years. Well, a fascinating conversation
(42:00):
on a fascinating nation, a republic if you can keep it.
And just a final point on that, Doug, you know,
there was a time in this country where we used
to say the United States are. We have long since
said the United States is. And that's the difference. And
the unity question continues to be the issue that we
(42:24):
strive for.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, absolutely, bringing us together that one nation ended. So
you know, it's vital that we find that pathway forward together.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Indeed, it's all in the book by Doug's father, Rich DeVos.
Believe a timeless endorsement of American principles. The fiftieth anniversary
can find it everywhere now thanks to my guest today,
Doug DeVos, American businessman and chairman of the National Constitution Center.
You've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour.
(42:55):
I'm Matt Kittle, Senior elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll
be back soon with more or until then, stay lovers
of freedom and anxious for the fray.
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