September 16, 2025 • 45 mins
On this episode of The Federalist Radio Hour, Jack Lyle and Jackson Heaberlin of Clemson University's College Republicans chapter join Federalist Senior Elections Correspondent Matt Kittle to discuss the assassination of Turning Point USA Founder Charlie Kirk, analyze the alarming responses to the murder, and share how Kirk's martyrdom has motivated them to live more boldly and faithfully than ever before.
Read more about Clemson's decision to fire an employee who allegedly urged others to be like Charlie Kirk’s killer here.
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Read more about Clemson's decision to fire an employee who allegedly urged others to be like Charlie Kirk’s killer here.
If you care about combating the corrupt media that continue to inflict devastating damage, please give a gift to help The Federalist do the real journalism America needs.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And we are back with another edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the
Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge.
As always, you can email the show at radio at
the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST,
make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and
(00:39):
of course to the premium version of our website as well.
Our guests today are Jack Lyle, Chairman of the Clemson
College Republicans, and Jackson Heberlin, Social chairman of the Clemson
College Republicans. These two young men have, over the past
several days, been on the front lines in really a
(00:59):
battle of good versus evil. I don't think that as
overstating that on our college campuses, social media, and so
many other places in this brave new world of the
far left assassination culture. Jack and Jackson, thank you so
much for joining us on this edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I'm happy to be here. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Absolutely, Jack, thank you too. I will start with you Jack,
and I know that your your voice is a little
rough view. Both of you have been telling your story
for the last several days. I appreciate you taking some
time today telling your stories to the point where you
(01:43):
know you've lost a bit at the voice as well.
The one thing that I find impressive about both of
you is and your your colleagues over at the College Republicans,
as you stood up for your voice, you stood up
for the first Amendment, You stood up for decency. Tell
(02:04):
us what happened on the university, Jack, the university, Clemson University,
in the wake of a horrible and horrifying incident, that
is the assassination of Turning Point co founder Charlie Kirk,
a young conservative icon. You started seeing some things both
(02:29):
of you did on social media. What happened at that point?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Jack, Yes, sir, Yeah, So the first thing that we
saw on less than two hours notice was more than
three hundred of our fellow students here at Clemson University
gather for a very heartfelt vigil that evening here in
the Amphitheater on campus. That was something that I found
to be extremely encouraging, extremely supportive at that time. I mean,
(02:54):
we were all very much in shock. I heard from
any number of my fellow students across the social spectrum
here really there was just so much shock, there was
so much awe, there was so much sadness, and so
it was really encouraging to see so many of my
good friends and somebody whom I had not met and
whom I had not seen come together to honor and
(03:16):
to remember Charlie in the wake of his assassination.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I'm sure it felt like to many of us an
absolute sucker punch when the news started to break that
first Charlie Kirk had been shot while speaking as he
did so often at the college campus in Utah. I'll
ask you first, and then Jackson, I'll ask you what
went through your mind. Jack as this news came down.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I disbelief more than anything, really, I mean, due to
sort of my exposure and my experience in politics. He
was not a super emotional reaction for the first couple
of hours. Really, I just couldn't believe that they shot
Charlie Kirk. You know, there's so many figures on the
(04:01):
right that you think this is a very controversial individual.
They might have gone after someone more extreme, they might
have gone after someone more high profile. But to see
that they shot Charlie Kirk, I could not believe it.
It really was just a sheer.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Disbelief, Jackson, what was going through your mind as you
heard first the news that Charlie Kirk had been shot,
and then not long after that Charlie Kirk was a
victim and turned out to be a victim of the
violence culture that we have seen so much of on
(04:37):
the left.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
The moment I heard about it, I was really quite shocked.
As with Jack, Initially there was a great deal of disbelief.
I thought that it may have been some sick joke
that a friend was telling me about whenever I was
initially messaged about it. But after looking online and seeing
the video, I immediately just moved into prayer and trying
to offer a prayer for Charlie. It helped that everything
(04:59):
would be a But after the moment for Paris Pubsidon
and I really took time to think about it. I
was stricken with the fact that of all the people,
you know, like Jack said, Charlie Kirk. I mean, I,
Jack can verify pretty quickly after I called him and
I was saying, I cannot believe it was Charlie Kirk
of all people, because to me, and maybe this is
part of being you know, more in the conservative culture,
(05:20):
but that would be one of the last people on
my list to think that what a radical leftist would
chose to assassinate. And I'm sure if you're online and
you look at, you know, the variety and discourse and
the variety and opinion that we see from popular conservative influencers,
you'd understand that Charlie Kirk was by no means on
the right end of that spectrum for conservative influencers. So
(05:41):
it was really a big shock for me. And after
I had learned about his passing, obviously it really affected
me in a way that I was surprised it would
because you just to think that he would be someone
who had passed from this island. I still can't, I
still can't rationalize it.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Well, I think, and I understand that. I think there
are a lot of us out there saying too. A
couple of things, because for those who knew Charlie Kirk,
he was a man thirty one years old. First and foremost,
he is a young man thirty one years old. Now,
I say that from my perspective, you think of him
as a little older from your perspective as college students,
(06:24):
but you know, as a fifty something year old man
He's a young man who had an exceptional impact and
an exceptional talent to communicate conservative ideas and ideals, but
not just conservative ideas and ideals, his faith. His faith,
particularly in his latter years, became so front and center.
And I think that's the thing that connected with a
(06:47):
lot of us Christians, the most conservative Christians in America.
And so it wasn't just a political thing. Jack, did
you feel like it was a spiritual thing as well?
For you?
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Absolutely? Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
The fact that Charlie intertwined so much of the Christian
message into his political messaging, it was just an inspiration
to me. I am a Christian, I am actually a Catholic,
and to see that a man who was so dedicated
to the Lord, who was so dedicated to spreading the Gospel,
was taken from us such a violent manner, it was
(07:28):
really it was a shocking thing. It was absolutely just disgusting.
I mean the video. I unfortunately, I saw the video
and I just could not believe what I was seeing.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
I was shocked.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You can't wash your mind out of that sort of violence.
It was said very early on in our Federalist chat
some unfortunately had seen the video and their recommendation to
all of us was don't watch this. Just as we
had seen from surveillance video not long before, not too
(08:03):
terribly far from you where you folks are in Charlotte,
North Carolina, we saw a victim, a twenty three year
old another young woman, riding on a public train, public transit,
being stabbed in cold blood and murdered in cold blood
on that train. So the image of violence that has
(08:24):
gone down in our minds is very difficult. But what
made it significantly more difficult in talking to you folks.
For a story I wrote on this for the Federalist,
you can find it at the Federalist dot com. The
headline is this Tennessee excuse me. A Clemson employee has
(08:45):
now been fired because of absolutely grotesque statements made on
his Facebook account celebrating the death of Charley Kirk, the
assassination of Charlie Kirk. Two other professors at Clemson have
(09:06):
been put on leave suspended. They're no longer in the
classrooms pending a further investigation. Jackson, You folks started to
go online and alert the public about this. For those
who hadn't seen these very disturbing posts by these faculty
(09:27):
members and staff members at Clemson. What were they saying
in the aftermath aftermath of Charlie Kirk's death.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Across the three individuals, there's a pretty good variety of
radicalization in the statements. Some statements, while equally gross, were
more so down to this was karma or he deserved this,
while other posts seemed to revel in it. One professor
said that it was a beautiful day, that day had happened,
and he had some strange rant about how the birds
(09:58):
were singing, the sun was shining. It was something along
those lines, and he seemed to be very proud when
he made his statement saying you can't talk in public
nomo think about the consequences, And it was something that.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Was really.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
For me at least, That's what first stood out, is
seeing him happy about it and then asserting that this
is a new norm that should be set for conservatives.
But for me, when I saw the messages sent by
the faculty member who was let go, that's when I
really understood how severe of an issue this was. A
faculty member who worked with asbestos control on this campus
(10:38):
published publicly saying that in a world of I believe
it was the United Healthcare CEO and Charlie kirk BA
and then the name of the two assassins, Magioni and
the Tyler Robinson.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I think is the name, but exactly yeah, it says,
and this is the exact statement, and it's horrifying in
every depth and breadth of the statement. It says, in
a world full of Charlie Kirks and Brian Thompson's be
a Tyler Robinson or a Luigi Mangioni. This is a
(11:13):
guy by the name of Robin Newberry a long time
as Jackson noted Clemson as bestest program manager who has
to deal with toxic things, apparently spewing toxic toxic things,
but not only exercising his free speech to criticize the dead.
That's one thing. He is absolutely mister Newberry, according to
(11:40):
the post, and according to multiple sources who named mister
Newberry as the person who posted this file thing, he
is advocating for political assassination. You folks jumped right on this,
and jack let me ask you, how did you come
(12:01):
across this? Did somebody tip you guys off? However that
was you responded immediately When Clemson, the university and administration
did not.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yeaes sir, Yes, So we received emails from a number
of the community here in Clemson basically informing us that
these statements were being made. A number of our friends
over in our Turning Point chapter made us aware of
these things. And then really I was very encouraged to
see how many of our faculty, and how many of
the just greater Clemson community, alumni and parents and everyone
(12:38):
of that nature, they all reached out to us to
not only give their sport, to make sure that we
were aware that the statements were being made, and it
was our it was our pleasure, and we felt it
was our duty.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
As soon as we received these.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Statements to make sure that they were taken as public
as possible. We took them to the South Carolina Freedom Caucus,
we took them to as many elected officials as we could,
and we were very grateful for the support that we
receive from those individuals. Now, I do have an update
on the two members of faculty. Okay, the investigations have
been concluded and they have been dismissed from their positions.
(13:11):
Were very encouraged to see that. We're very glad the
university took that step earlier today.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Okay, that has not been reported, I don't believe or
as just being reported as we talk about this now,
there was a good deal of concern that the faculty members.
Now again, you know, we all have our level of
shock and being disturbed. The disturbing comments from mister Newberry
(13:37):
to me hold a little different place than the others.
Absolutely appalling that these two professors said what they said.
The one, as Jackson said, it was, wasn't it karma
that caught up with Charlie Kirk because he didn't like
what Charlie Kirk's message was like a lot of leftists
out there, and the other guy may be a little
(13:59):
bit worse in talking, you know about what a beautiful
day it was. Effectively you read between the lines what
a beautiful day for an assassination of a young conservative
leader is basically it. There were concerns that these guys
would be protected under freedom of speech, under academic freedom
on campus. The Attorney General in South Carolina said no, no, no, no,
(14:25):
they do not have job protection because of this. Jackson,
let me ask you, what do you think. Were you
concerned that these two might face a different set of
discipline than mister Newberry.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Like that they wouldn't be removed.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Do you mean, yeah, they wouldn't be fired. They had
been suspended, they had been removed from the classroom. But
I know from talking to a number of sources that
the board of trustees at Clemson in the administration had
been hearing from their attorneys saying, don't fire these guys.
This could cause a lot of legal damage for Clemson
(15:04):
because of those academic freedom issues. Were you concerned that
they may escape because of what many would consider a
loophole allowing indecency basically to not only survive but thrive.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
From my perspective, it seemed a lot less like a
concern and more like likelihood when you see the way
that Clemson initially responded brushing it off. Then they had
a slightly less dismissive response, and just overall they were
continuously weak willed and not decisive in action. To me,
it feels like a very clear redline issue of is
this allowing your campus or is it not allowing your campus.
(15:43):
So whenever I saw that they were not immediately and
decisively dismissing the employees, to me, at least from my angle,
it seemed likely that without heavy pressure they would never
have dismissed these employees, and I think we have to think, obviously,
as Jack said, Freedom Caucus people like Nancy, Mace and
Ralph and so many more people for helping boost this
Because due to the early responses and the texture of
(16:06):
a dialogue that we had with a university staff, I
can say that from my perspective, it really didn't seem
like any action would have been taken if this didn't
blow out the way it did.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Gen Z's behavior in the workplace is staggering. The Watchdot
on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski every day Chris
helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy and
how it affects your wallet. Seventy seven percent of gen
Z admitted to bring a parent to a job interview,
while seventy three percent of parents help them complete their
work assignments. Should this be a sure way to get fired?
(16:40):
Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street,
it's affecting you financially.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Be informed.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris
Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, you raise a good point. There was some deafening
silence coming from the administration and certainly from the board
of trustees. You folks at Clemson College Republicans immediately reached
out to the people who hold the purse strings in
the state legislature and they got immediately involved. As you
(17:17):
mentioned the Freedom Caucus, the what was it was it
the Ways and Means Committee. It was one of the
powerful committees in the South Carolina legislature that said there
should be action immediately. If not, you know, there there
will be consequences. And there were you know, face made
(17:39):
a social network post out there, post on x from
from these members of the legislature saying we can defund
you if you don't make the right decision here. And
the right decision has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
You have every right in the world to make public
(18:00):
comments that are vile and awful and disgusting to most minds,
but that doesn't mean that your job is protected. As
Senator Lindsay Graham noted in all of this as well,
a First Amendment does not extend to stupid things that
you say, and with your expectation of keeping your job.
(18:22):
We have found that out over and over again. There's
no protection for that. Interestingly enough, though as much positive
as many positives as you both heard and your organization heard,
and a lot of people coming together in support of
(18:42):
Charlie Kirk condemning the violence. They were a good number
of people on campus who literally danced, literally celebrated the
death of Charlie Kirk. Jackson, I'll begin with you on
that front. You and jack both were tabling on campus
(19:02):
last Friday when you had an encounter with a young
woman who said some truly awful things.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, I actually have the letter with me here. I'm
sure I probably can't show it tho because it's pretty profane.
But a student handed me a piece of paper that said,
f you're homie, He's dead. Rest in PI, S S.
Charlie Kirk. And then it had the quote below about
some gun debts being an unfortunate consequence of first or
(19:32):
second amend of freedoms. So go ahead, I'm sorry, go
ahead continue.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Well, I mean it was just another awful example of
what we've seen so much from the left, which is
just it's horrible and horrifying once again at the same time,
is that they don't like Charlie Kirk's defense of the
Second Amendment and Charlie Kirk of course, has been massively
misquoted in the corporate media, so I like to call
(20:01):
them the accomplish media.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
And on the.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Left, he certainly appalled violence of any kind and spoke
out against it, including gun violence. But he talked about
the price that we pay in this country for the
critical first principal liberties, the Second Amendment being one of them,
(20:26):
as we pay a much steeper price for driving, or
for being allowed at a certain age to drink or
in some states do drugs, or you go down the list.
That was his argument. And of course what we've seen
I've reported in my colleagues at the Federalists have reported
(20:47):
extensively on these awful things that they're saying, well, he
got what he deserved. One of your professors is saying, karma,
jack when you saw this go down, what went through
your mind? Because this, like I said, this is one
of myriad examples of that kind of thinking in this country.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
I was, you know, funny enough, I received the first
half of the video from Jackson while I was sitting
in my American National Government class, and I got up
and I left the glass early, and I ran to
our table, and just as I had gotten there, this
young woman decided to come back, and that was the
(21:28):
time at which she decided to dance in front of
us and mock us so brutally, And in the video,
I'm shown basically asking her if she is at all repentant,
ideologically or spiritually for mocking a man who dedicated his
life to the First Amendment, who had his neck eviscerated
with a thirty on six. The lack of morals, the
(21:51):
lack of even just moral awareness, lack of consciousness that
these people display when they do these kinds of things
that she displayed when she did what she did, it
is it is truly disturbing in a lot of ways.
And ultimately that's what went through my mind at that time.
It was shock, and it was it was just I
(22:11):
was disturbed.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I really was, Jackson. You just captured this moment. That's
what you were trying to do. She is the one
that you know, got to the table and you know
and made these very troubling statements. So you asked her
about it, and jack you asked her about it as well.
You put the video out there to show the sort
(22:34):
of stuff that you folks are dealing with. You had
a little backlash from that as I understand it.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, well, I mean, and just for the clarification of listeners,
because I realized the timeline is probably pretty off. She
had me the paper. I asked her why she felt
the need to share this with me on camera. She
looked into the camera and said that he deserved to
die and he was a terrible person. Then she came
back and in the video can be seen dancing and
singing a song about our homie being dead, which is
obviously discussing and ridiculous, but I mean almost comedic in
(23:02):
the level of malice. But to me, at least, this
felt more than justified to post because unlike many things
that we've seen where students have come up and in
the spur of the moment said, you know what, he
deserves to die, or things that just demonstrate poor control
over you know, impulsive topics. To me, those people, I
respect their anonymity because these are not public statements, these
(23:25):
are spur of the moment conversations.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
But she was different.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I mean, I'm looking at the paper. It's got like highlighter,
it's got like three types of marker on it. I
mean she drew it out and came back and handed
it to me, and then she came back and danced
more while obviously on camera. So to me, I didn't
think anyone would find it ridiculous to post that because
it was just an obvious interaction which clearly to me
qualifies as a public statement. So she uh one of
(23:53):
the ones I put out that video. I first put
it out on Instagram just for people who I know
to see of what we've been having happened, and pretty
quickly I had a lot of support from friends who
are saying, oh my goodness, because I would I've told
them before, like man, people really are happy out here,
and they're like, oh yeah, but it's just a small minority,
and then they see somebody literally dancing and singing about
(24:13):
the assassination. But you know, so from there I had
very little pushback. But things change whenever I decided to
put it out on Twitter as an example of the
type of climate that we've been seeing down here on
campus and the sort of the conversation and the behavior
that has been deemed okay by some of the professors,
which have now fortunately been let go. And once I
(24:36):
put it out there is when I started to get
some pushback. I know that there's an anonymous university social media.
I had to delete that pretty quick after I went
up because I was reading some stuff and I was like, wow,
this is crazy, and so many people were just more
than willing to throw out false information about me. Later on,
(24:57):
we had to post a screenshot, or we didn't. After
we did, we posted a screenshot where she joined the
Turning Point group chat, which was full of people who
in some cases knew Charlie Kirk and were hurt more
than I ever could have been. And she said more
mocking behavior and called for Trump to be next.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Wow, yeah and stunning, you know, very stunning, And in
fact I want to touch upon that a little bit more.
How we got here and what the last several days
nearly a week in this country have told us informed
us about where things stand in America today. Our guests
(25:38):
today are Jack Lyle, chairman of the Clemson College Republicans,
and Jackson Haberlin, Social chairman of the Clemson College Republicans.
They were, in so many ways the driving force of
making sure that the Clemson community in South Carolina, South
(26:00):
Carolina lawmakers and the public in general understood the sort
of nasty loathsome communications that were going on, very very
publicly with leftist professors and staff members of Clemson celebrating,
literally celebrating the death, the cold blooded killing of conservative leader,
(26:29):
conservative icon Charlie Kirk. I think I talked to both
of you about this study that came out in April.
We reported on it at the Federalist and the report
was conducted by the Network of Contagion Research Institute in
(26:50):
partnership with Rutgers University's Social Perception Lab, and they have
done extensive research and what they found, among other things,
is deeply troubling, and I think it is a reflection
of where we stand today. Fifty five percent of self
identified leftists say killing President Donald Trump is justifiable a
(27:14):
little bit under that said, the same for assassinating Elon
Musk and other conservative leaders. That was in April. It
gave us a sense of where we are today. Unfortunately,
jack let me ask you, as you deal with the
(27:35):
aftermath of this and what you and Jackson have heard
from members of the left celebrating Charlie Kirk's assassination, what
do you think about those numbers and where do you
think it suggests we're going, particularly among the younger population
in America.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, I mean I'm terribly concerned by that, of course,
to see that the left in this country has become
so radicalized, they've become so isolated, and they've become so violent.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
I mean, they really are. They're they're just terribly.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Impulsive a lot of time, and they are they're they're
very difficult to deal with and often often times or
often cases, and so I'm not necessarily surprised by that.
I am terribly concerned by that, of course. To know
that they would, on the mass, on the on the
majority even condone the assassination of a sitting president, and
(28:30):
then a near majority condone the assassination of one of
the most significant, first of all, leaders of industry of
our time, and second, someone who's so popular among so
many in our country. To know that that ultimately they
do wish to death upon so many that they disagree with,
simply for the sake of disagreeing with them, is it's
terribly concerning to know that essentially they are beginning to
(28:52):
abandon the democratic system on masks.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
It's very concerning.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
But it's it's not only that, and I agree with
you totally, but Jackson, it seems to me that it
is also abandoning or a sense of absolute lost. I mean,
I think about how COVID isolated us so much, and
in this digital world, how we're all so most of
us so dependent on communication that isn't real communication, like
(29:24):
the kind of sit down communication that Charlie Kirk advocated for,
like you folks are advocating for on your college campus
when you table, I mean, what do you see among
your fellow students on Clemson's campus, which is a conservative campus.
By the way, Is it cause for alarm Jackson as
(29:49):
you certainly take a look at the violence that is
being reaped from what has been sewed over the last
several years.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I mean, I could say, for me, at least, I
think it's a big cause for an alarm. But I
think more than that, it's an opportunity for normal conservatives
to make their position known. I know, at least for me,
in the wake of posting this and getting some pushback,
I've had many people advise me and say, you know,
this is really could impact your career, This could impact
(30:20):
how people see you speaking on this. But I think
that me and any principled individual should understand that this
is a hill you should be willing to die on
if you have to lose career or lose jobs over
saying that you shouldn't publicly assassinate a Christian and just
a conservative who was not a radical conservative pushing for
(30:41):
a great radical change in this country. He was a
regular conservative. If that response is publicly condemned, then you
should be willing to be condemned. And I know, at
least for me, the only way that I see this
trend stopping and people straying from this is when this
is fully ideologically isolated. This can't be seen as just
(31:05):
one opinion in our spectrum of belief. This needs to
be a clear line, both for people on the right
and on the left. If your solution to discourse is
direct violence, then I think it's important that everyone understands
that is outside of the discourse. That's not about your
opinion you're having, and that's not you know, States rights
versus federal rights. So that's not any historical dispute in
(31:27):
an American government. That is a denial of the ability
to have dispute in American government. And so I know,
at least for me, the trend is scary and the
trend is bothersome. But for me, there's nothing left to
be decided on it. This is where I draw the line,
and this is where I think many Americans are drawing
(31:47):
the line.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
And clearly both you and Jack prove that over and
over again over the last several days. Your turn of
phrase is interesting to me because it has been an expression,
I will die on this hill when it comes to
my beliefs, my support for policies in the political arena,
or so many different ways. That expression has become in
(32:11):
some ways, pat it has four Conservatives, now become a
real statement, a literal statement. Charlie Kirk died on the
hill of his faith and his belief in the exceptionalism
of this republic and its foundational values. You told me yesterday, Jackson,
(32:34):
and I thought this was a very important comment. You
said that Charlie Kirk's death impacted you on a personal
level like it has. I think so many conservatives because
you said, down deep, I'm thinking, if they think Kirk
(32:54):
deserves to die, I'm a conservative, do I deserve to die?
I mean? Are those the thoughts running through your minds
this week? After all we've seen, after all you have seen.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
I know for me it definitely is the campaign that
we were initially going to primarily focus on before the
professor information came out, we obviously prioritize that is do
we deserve death? That's the idea, you know, because I'm
a conservative like Charlie Kirk, I'm a Christian like Charlie Kirk,
and from what I'm seeing, these hur really the only
(33:30):
two big damning claims that earned him the death penalty
according to some people. So I know, for me at least,
it is a scary thing in some ways, it's bothersome,
but it's something that's on my mind and almost a
motivating way that if this is the outcome that some
people see fit for you, then that is your motivation
(33:52):
to fight and to push harder and to keep going.
Because it's not a game anymore. It's not too many people,
and to assuming that study's accurate to fifty five percent
of the population, this isn't a game of ideology versus ideology,
and you know who can win the Democratic debate or
you know, the presidential debates coming up. This is an
(34:12):
idea of true life and death for many people, and
it's something that for me at least is serving as
great motivation this time, and that that message keeps popping
up in my head has more reason to keep fighting
and keep speaking out because already what I've said, just
being a conservative is already a death warrant, So why
(34:33):
stop there.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
That's sad to me, because you're right, it has now
become civilization versus absolute anarchy. That's unfortunately about where we
are with this kind of mentality. And you're an eighteen
year old young man. You shouldn't have to think about
death sentences. You should think about all of the things
(34:56):
that life has to offer. Jack you're not much older,
but you have been around the Clemson campus for a
few more years. You're a junior poly sci major. What
do you think about your chosen profession and how dangerous
it has become for just in general in politics, but
especially for conservatives in politics.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah, you know, at the end of the day, I
see the thread against myself and Jackson and so many
of our good friends and those around our community, as actually.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
As motivation in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
I see first and foremost that just the day before
Charlie's assassination, we were out at the very same spot
that we've been tabling for so long now. We had
a sign that read concealed carry on campus, Yes or no,
And we got about one hundred and ten yes votes
in about forty no. And I tell you right now,
(35:52):
I really wish that we were able to carry on
campus because we do. We have so many who are
so violent, who are so rhetoric driven by their isolation,
by their ideology, and by their disillusion with not only
our country but with really reality on the left where
now I mean, you know, Jackson has expressed to me
(36:12):
a number of times that he really does feel.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
As though it is unsafe for us to table.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
It's unsafe for really any of us to be recognized publicly,
because in the event that we were, if one of
these people who is so isolated, impulsive, deranged decides to
take action against us, we are left defenseless for the
most part by the university's policies, by the state's policies
to disarm us when we are on campus or on
(36:37):
associated properties. And so for that to be the case,
that's one of our big next steps moving forward is
we're going to be really advocating for campus scary.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
We're going to be really advocating for the.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Ability of conservatives, of decent, normal people who are willing
to condemn political violence, to be able to defend themselves
using the tools that are made readily available to them
and the right for which is guaranteed to them by
the US Constitution.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
That's an important point in such an important protection in liberty. Obviously,
that's what we've been talking about, for better or worse,
over the last several days in this country, and what
the deranged left feels about that issue and what is
justice in their minds now, jack you had told me,
(37:25):
and I think this is important. I want to make
sure that we talk about this in our conversation. You
had told me when when, when we were talking yesterday,
that it may come across as you and Jackson and
others in the Clemson College Republicans that you know, you're
bashing your university, you know you're you are you know,
(37:47):
at war with the administration. And you said that simply
is not the case. You told me how much you
love this university, how much you respect and how much
you wanted to go to this university. And I think
that is exactly at the center of what we are
talking about today. You can love something or someone but
(38:10):
still see the flaws in that something or someone and
I think that's what you were trying to bring to
the attention of the public at Clemson University. Am I
am I correct in saying so absolutely?
Speaker 4 (38:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
So the line that I've run and so hard these
last few days is that and I and my members
love Clemson University enough to advocate for it, enough to fight.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
For what's right within it. Now.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
If we did not love Clemson, we would have just
turned tail and run when we heard these things. I
would have just said, you know what, I'll go somewhere
where these people aren't. But because I want to be here,
because I love Clemson so much, I want to be
on this campus, and I want to feel safe here.
I want to feel as though I am welcome here.
I want to feel as though my ideology is not necessarily,
as Jackson put it, a death warrant on this campus.
(38:59):
And so I'm very encouraged to see that again today.
This morning, the university put out a statement to declaring
that they have dismissed the other two individuals who are
involved in these investigations. And then just this afternoon at
twelve thirty, I was able to sit down and had
the opportunity to sit down and have lunch with a
member of administration and talk through so much of what's
gone on this last week, and talk through what the
(39:21):
future looks like. And I have to say I'm very,
very encouraged by that conversation, by how things went, really
throughout this entire process, dealing directly with members of administration,
And again, I just want to say, I love Glenson
so much, I really do.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
This is what I find particularly encouraging. What you both
told me yesterday was in such darkness as we are
experiencing over the last several days in this country, the
shining bright light beaming down is that the Clemson College
(39:59):
Republicans and Turning Point USA it's chapter on Clemson University,
which is one of the largest chapters in the country,
has seen explosive interest in either people joining or actually
becoming members. Jackson, what are the numbers today that you're seeing? Again,
(40:22):
my understanding is that these are some pretty significant numbers
of people who want to be involved in the conservative movement.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I mean, it's hard to keep count. I know that
we're over one hundred.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Jack Do you have a specific number, yeah, I do,
so to give reference in the last five days, specifically
since last Wednesday, we have gained forty seven new members
here at the Clemson College Republicans.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Now, I can't give as specific.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
A number for our Turning Point chapter, but Charlie Klant's
the president down here of Turning Point USA's chapter at Clemson.
He said that more than four hundred people joined their
group me and that they had gained more than one
hundred new members through our registration system, which is called
Tiger Request. So presumably have somewhere in the neighborhood of
four to five hundred new individuals who are looking to
(41:12):
get involved with them.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Are really encouraged to see that.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
That is amazing. With that in mind, Jackson, what do
you think Charlie Kirk would think of your efforts over
the last week.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
That's a big ask. I mean, I think what I'm
doing is in line with his vision, and that's kind
of what I've thought over and over again. I know
when I was the night of his death, we all
went out to dinner and we were all talking about,
like what do we do because it was a very
big like TPUSA didn't know what to do, our other
organizations didn't know what to do. It was a big shock.
(41:50):
And I know when I talked to Jack. What I
kept saying is I think that we should be tabling tomorrow.
That's what Charliekirk would have done. And I think repeatedly
throughout this process myself, what would the Lord want me
to do and what would Charlie Kirk do in the scenario.
And I've been in that I found that those two
goals are very often in line. So I think that
(42:13):
what I've done has honored his vision. I know that's
my purpose with all of this action. That's the reason
why I'm trying to do it is to keep that
alive because that is a big hole that he has
left that. I think it's up for young conservatives that
were like him when he first got started to fill
that hole. And I know that I have bigger plans.
I'm in talks of starting an organization that will in
(42:34):
some ways carry alive that mentality, and I think it's
a I think he'd be proud of what we're doing here.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Good for you.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
It's a free speech organization that's you're interested on campus?
Am I correct in saying?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So? Yeah, the small details are still being decided, but
I'm interested in trying to promote free discourse on campus
in a balanced way that help students get involved.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
So, then Jack, I ask you the same thing. You know,
you didn't exactly know what you wanted to do the
night of the assassination of Charlie Kirk. You knew what
you had to do. Now moving forward, Jack, what would
you like to do? What do you want to do?
What do you have to do in terms of your
(43:28):
career path and your life path?
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yeah, well, so first things first is we're going to
keep the gas pedal down here on campus. We're going
to keep standing for what we believe in. We're going
to keep standing for ultimately what's right. We're going to
keep spreading the message of the Gospel. We're going to
keep standing for conservative values. And then moving beyond that,
we're going to work with as many as we can
in government. We're going to work as many with as
many as we can, and in special interest groups and
(43:53):
in the media to make sure that that we bring
back sanity, that we bring back decency, that we bring
back peaceful discourse to the country and to those who
stand for it.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Well, I want to tell you, as I talked about before,
the darkness in this country in the last several days
has been intense, but the darker things are the brighter,
the true light shine. You two are among that prism
of light that we are seeing. It gives I think
so many of us so much hope, not just for
(44:25):
the conservative movement, but for this country, this exceptional republic
in general. Thanks for all that you're doing and keep
up the good work.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Absolutely, yes, sir, thank you, mister Carrol, really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Thank you very much that sentiment. It's very meaningful to me.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
We appreciate both of you and the good work you're doing.
Thanks to my guest today, Jack Lyle, Chairman of the
Clemson College Republicans, and Jackson Haberlin, Social chairman of the
Clemson College Republicans, you've been listening to another edition of
the Realist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior elections correspondent
at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then,
(45:07):
stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray.
And we are back with another edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the
Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge.
As always, you can email the show at radio at
the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST,
make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and
(00:39):
of course to the premium version of our website as well.
Our guests today are Jack Lyle, Chairman of the Clemson
College Republicans, and Jackson Heberlin, Social chairman of the Clemson
College Republicans. These two young men have, over the past
several days, been on the front lines in really a
(00:59):
battle of good versus evil. I don't think that as
overstating that on our college campuses, social media, and so
many other places in this brave new world of the
far left assassination culture. Jack and Jackson, thank you so
much for joining us on this edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I'm happy to be here. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Absolutely, Jack, thank you too. I will start with you Jack,
and I know that your your voice is a little
rough view. Both of you have been telling your story
for the last several days. I appreciate you taking some
time today telling your stories to the point where you
(01:43):
know you've lost a bit at the voice as well.
The one thing that I find impressive about both of
you is and your your colleagues over at the College Republicans,
as you stood up for your voice, you stood up
for the first Amendment, You stood up for decency. Tell
(02:04):
us what happened on the university, Jack, the university, Clemson University,
in the wake of a horrible and horrifying incident, that
is the assassination of Turning Point co founder Charlie Kirk,
a young conservative icon. You started seeing some things both
(02:29):
of you did on social media. What happened at that point?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Jack, Yes, sir, Yeah, So the first thing that we
saw on less than two hours notice was more than
three hundred of our fellow students here at Clemson University
gather for a very heartfelt vigil that evening here in
the Amphitheater on campus. That was something that I found
to be extremely encouraging, extremely supportive at that time. I mean,
(02:54):
we were all very much in shock. I heard from
any number of my fellow students across the social spectrum
here really there was just so much shock, there was
so much awe, there was so much sadness, and so
it was really encouraging to see so many of my
good friends and somebody whom I had not met and
whom I had not seen come together to honor and
(03:16):
to remember Charlie in the wake of his assassination.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I'm sure it felt like to many of us an
absolute sucker punch when the news started to break that
first Charlie Kirk had been shot while speaking as he
did so often at the college campus in Utah. I'll
ask you first, and then Jackson, I'll ask you what
went through your mind. Jack as this news came down.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I disbelief more than anything, really, I mean, due to
sort of my exposure and my experience in politics. He
was not a super emotional reaction for the first couple
of hours. Really, I just couldn't believe that they shot
Charlie Kirk. You know, there's so many figures on the
(04:01):
right that you think this is a very controversial individual.
They might have gone after someone more extreme, they might
have gone after someone more high profile. But to see
that they shot Charlie Kirk, I could not believe it.
It really was just a sheer.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Disbelief, Jackson, what was going through your mind as you
heard first the news that Charlie Kirk had been shot,
and then not long after that Charlie Kirk was a
victim and turned out to be a victim of the
violence culture that we have seen so much of on
(04:37):
the left.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
The moment I heard about it, I was really quite shocked.
As with Jack, Initially there was a great deal of disbelief.
I thought that it may have been some sick joke
that a friend was telling me about whenever I was
initially messaged about it. But after looking online and seeing
the video, I immediately just moved into prayer and trying
to offer a prayer for Charlie. It helped that everything
(04:59):
would be a But after the moment for Paris Pubsidon
and I really took time to think about it. I
was stricken with the fact that of all the people,
you know, like Jack said, Charlie Kirk. I mean, I,
Jack can verify pretty quickly after I called him and
I was saying, I cannot believe it was Charlie Kirk
of all people, because to me, and maybe this is
part of being you know, more in the conservative culture,
(05:20):
but that would be one of the last people on
my list to think that what a radical leftist would
chose to assassinate. And I'm sure if you're online and
you look at, you know, the variety and discourse and
the variety and opinion that we see from popular conservative influencers,
you'd understand that Charlie Kirk was by no means on
the right end of that spectrum for conservative influencers. So
(05:41):
it was really a big shock for me. And after
I had learned about his passing, obviously it really affected
me in a way that I was surprised it would
because you just to think that he would be someone
who had passed from this island. I still can't, I
still can't rationalize it.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Well, I think, and I understand that. I think there
are a lot of us out there saying too. A
couple of things, because for those who knew Charlie Kirk,
he was a man thirty one years old. First and foremost,
he is a young man thirty one years old. Now,
I say that from my perspective, you think of him
as a little older from your perspective as college students,
(06:24):
but you know, as a fifty something year old man
He's a young man who had an exceptional impact and
an exceptional talent to communicate conservative ideas and ideals, but
not just conservative ideas and ideals, his faith. His faith,
particularly in his latter years, became so front and center.
And I think that's the thing that connected with a
(06:47):
lot of us Christians, the most conservative Christians in America.
And so it wasn't just a political thing. Jack, did
you feel like it was a spiritual thing as well?
For you?
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Absolutely? Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
The fact that Charlie intertwined so much of the Christian
message into his political messaging, it was just an inspiration
to me. I am a Christian, I am actually a Catholic,
and to see that a man who was so dedicated
to the Lord, who was so dedicated to spreading the Gospel,
was taken from us such a violent manner, it was
(07:28):
really it was a shocking thing. It was absolutely just disgusting.
I mean the video. I unfortunately, I saw the video
and I just could not believe what I was seeing.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
I was shocked.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You can't wash your mind out of that sort of violence.
It was said very early on in our Federalist chat
some unfortunately had seen the video and their recommendation to
all of us was don't watch this. Just as we
had seen from surveillance video not long before, not too
(08:03):
terribly far from you where you folks are in Charlotte,
North Carolina, we saw a victim, a twenty three year
old another young woman, riding on a public train, public transit,
being stabbed in cold blood and murdered in cold blood
on that train. So the image of violence that has
(08:24):
gone down in our minds is very difficult. But what
made it significantly more difficult in talking to you folks.
For a story I wrote on this for the Federalist,
you can find it at the Federalist dot com. The
headline is this Tennessee excuse me. A Clemson employee has
(08:45):
now been fired because of absolutely grotesque statements made on
his Facebook account celebrating the death of Charley Kirk, the
assassination of Charlie Kirk. Two other professors at Clemson have
(09:06):
been put on leave suspended. They're no longer in the
classrooms pending a further investigation. Jackson, You folks started to
go online and alert the public about this. For those
who hadn't seen these very disturbing posts by these faculty
(09:27):
members and staff members at Clemson. What were they saying
in the aftermath aftermath of Charlie Kirk's death.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Across the three individuals, there's a pretty good variety of
radicalization in the statements. Some statements, while equally gross, were
more so down to this was karma or he deserved this,
while other posts seemed to revel in it. One professor
said that it was a beautiful day, that day had happened,
and he had some strange rant about how the birds
(09:58):
were singing, the sun was shining. It was something along
those lines, and he seemed to be very proud when
he made his statement saying you can't talk in public
nomo think about the consequences, And it was something that.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Was really.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
For me at least, That's what first stood out, is
seeing him happy about it and then asserting that this
is a new norm that should be set for conservatives.
But for me, when I saw the messages sent by
the faculty member who was let go, that's when I
really understood how severe of an issue this was. A
faculty member who worked with asbestos control on this campus
(10:38):
published publicly saying that in a world of I believe
it was the United Healthcare CEO and Charlie kirk BA
and then the name of the two assassins, Magioni and
the Tyler Robinson.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I think is the name, but exactly yeah, it says,
and this is the exact statement, and it's horrifying in
every depth and breadth of the statement. It says, in
a world full of Charlie Kirks and Brian Thompson's be
a Tyler Robinson or a Luigi Mangioni. This is a
(11:13):
guy by the name of Robin Newberry a long time
as Jackson noted Clemson as bestest program manager who has
to deal with toxic things, apparently spewing toxic toxic things,
but not only exercising his free speech to criticize the dead.
That's one thing. He is absolutely mister Newberry, according to
(11:40):
the post, and according to multiple sources who named mister
Newberry as the person who posted this file thing, he
is advocating for political assassination. You folks jumped right on this,
and jack let me ask you, how did you come
(12:01):
across this? Did somebody tip you guys off? However that
was you responded immediately When Clemson, the university and administration
did not.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yeaes sir, Yes, So we received emails from a number
of the community here in Clemson basically informing us that
these statements were being made. A number of our friends
over in our Turning Point chapter made us aware of
these things. And then really I was very encouraged to
see how many of our faculty, and how many of
the just greater Clemson community, alumni and parents and everyone
(12:38):
of that nature, they all reached out to us to
not only give their sport, to make sure that we
were aware that the statements were being made, and it
was our it was our pleasure, and we felt it
was our duty.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
As soon as we received these.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Statements to make sure that they were taken as public
as possible. We took them to the South Carolina Freedom Caucus,
we took them to as many elected officials as we could,
and we were very grateful for the support that we
receive from those individuals. Now, I do have an update
on the two members of faculty. Okay, the investigations have
been concluded and they have been dismissed from their positions.
(13:11):
Were very encouraged to see that. We're very glad the
university took that step earlier today.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Okay, that has not been reported, I don't believe or
as just being reported as we talk about this now,
there was a good deal of concern that the faculty members.
Now again, you know, we all have our level of
shock and being disturbed. The disturbing comments from mister Newberry
(13:37):
to me hold a little different place than the others.
Absolutely appalling that these two professors said what they said.
The one, as Jackson said, it was, wasn't it karma
that caught up with Charlie Kirk because he didn't like
what Charlie Kirk's message was like a lot of leftists
out there, and the other guy may be a little
(13:59):
bit worse in talking, you know about what a beautiful
day it was. Effectively you read between the lines what
a beautiful day for an assassination of a young conservative
leader is basically it. There were concerns that these guys
would be protected under freedom of speech, under academic freedom
on campus. The Attorney General in South Carolina said no, no, no, no,
(14:25):
they do not have job protection because of this. Jackson,
let me ask you, what do you think. Were you
concerned that these two might face a different set of
discipline than mister Newberry.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Like that they wouldn't be removed.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Do you mean, yeah, they wouldn't be fired. They had
been suspended, they had been removed from the classroom. But
I know from talking to a number of sources that
the board of trustees at Clemson in the administration had
been hearing from their attorneys saying, don't fire these guys.
This could cause a lot of legal damage for Clemson
(15:04):
because of those academic freedom issues. Were you concerned that
they may escape because of what many would consider a
loophole allowing indecency basically to not only survive but thrive.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
From my perspective, it seemed a lot less like a
concern and more like likelihood when you see the way
that Clemson initially responded brushing it off. Then they had
a slightly less dismissive response, and just overall they were
continuously weak willed and not decisive in action. To me,
it feels like a very clear redline issue of is
this allowing your campus or is it not allowing your campus.
(15:43):
So whenever I saw that they were not immediately and
decisively dismissing the employees, to me, at least from my angle,
it seemed likely that without heavy pressure they would never
have dismissed these employees, and I think we have to think, obviously,
as Jack said, Freedom Caucus people like Nancy, Mace and
Ralph and so many more people for helping boost this
Because due to the early responses and the texture of
(16:06):
a dialogue that we had with a university staff, I
can say that from my perspective, it really didn't seem
like any action would have been taken if this didn't
blow out the way it did.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Gen Z's behavior in the workplace is staggering. The Watchdot
on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski every day Chris
helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy and
how it affects your wallet. Seventy seven percent of gen
Z admitted to bring a parent to a job interview,
while seventy three percent of parents help them complete their
work assignments. Should this be a sure way to get fired?
(16:40):
Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street,
it's affecting you financially.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Be informed.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris
Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, you raise a good point. There was some deafening
silence coming from the administration and certainly from the board
of trustees. You folks at Clemson College Republicans immediately reached
out to the people who hold the purse strings in
the state legislature and they got immediately involved. As you
(17:17):
mentioned the Freedom Caucus, the what was it was it
the Ways and Means Committee. It was one of the
powerful committees in the South Carolina legislature that said there
should be action immediately. If not, you know, there there
will be consequences. And there were you know, face made
(17:39):
a social network post out there, post on x from
from these members of the legislature saying we can defund
you if you don't make the right decision here. And
the right decision has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
You have every right in the world to make public
(18:00):
comments that are vile and awful and disgusting to most minds,
but that doesn't mean that your job is protected. As
Senator Lindsay Graham noted in all of this as well,
a First Amendment does not extend to stupid things that
you say, and with your expectation of keeping your job.
(18:22):
We have found that out over and over again. There's
no protection for that. Interestingly enough, though as much positive
as many positives as you both heard and your organization heard,
and a lot of people coming together in support of
(18:42):
Charlie Kirk condemning the violence. They were a good number
of people on campus who literally danced, literally celebrated the
death of Charlie Kirk. Jackson, I'll begin with you on
that front. You and jack both were tabling on campus
(19:02):
last Friday when you had an encounter with a young
woman who said some truly awful things.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, I actually have the letter with me here. I'm
sure I probably can't show it tho because it's pretty profane.
But a student handed me a piece of paper that said,
f you're homie, He's dead. Rest in PI, S S.
Charlie Kirk. And then it had the quote below about
some gun debts being an unfortunate consequence of first or
(19:32):
second amend of freedoms. So go ahead, I'm sorry, go
ahead continue.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Well, I mean it was just another awful example of
what we've seen so much from the left, which is
just it's horrible and horrifying once again at the same time,
is that they don't like Charlie Kirk's defense of the
Second Amendment and Charlie Kirk of course, has been massively
misquoted in the corporate media, so I like to call
(20:01):
them the accomplish media.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
And on the.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Left, he certainly appalled violence of any kind and spoke
out against it, including gun violence. But he talked about
the price that we pay in this country for the
critical first principal liberties, the Second Amendment being one of them,
(20:26):
as we pay a much steeper price for driving, or
for being allowed at a certain age to drink or
in some states do drugs, or you go down the list.
That was his argument. And of course what we've seen
I've reported in my colleagues at the Federalists have reported
(20:47):
extensively on these awful things that they're saying, well, he
got what he deserved. One of your professors is saying, karma,
jack when you saw this go down, what went through
your mind? Because this, like I said, this is one
of myriad examples of that kind of thinking in this country.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
I was, you know, funny enough, I received the first
half of the video from Jackson while I was sitting
in my American National Government class, and I got up
and I left the glass early, and I ran to
our table, and just as I had gotten there, this
young woman decided to come back, and that was the
(21:28):
time at which she decided to dance in front of
us and mock us so brutally, And in the video,
I'm shown basically asking her if she is at all repentant,
ideologically or spiritually for mocking a man who dedicated his
life to the First Amendment, who had his neck eviscerated
with a thirty on six. The lack of morals, the
(21:51):
lack of even just moral awareness, lack of consciousness that
these people display when they do these kinds of things
that she displayed when she did what she did, it
is it is truly disturbing in a lot of ways.
And ultimately that's what went through my mind at that time.
It was shock, and it was it was just I
(22:11):
was disturbed.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I really was, Jackson. You just captured this moment. That's
what you were trying to do. She is the one
that you know, got to the table and you know
and made these very troubling statements. So you asked her
about it, and jack you asked her about it as well.
You put the video out there to show the sort
(22:34):
of stuff that you folks are dealing with. You had
a little backlash from that as I understand it.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, well, I mean, and just for the clarification of listeners,
because I realized the timeline is probably pretty off. She
had me the paper. I asked her why she felt
the need to share this with me on camera. She
looked into the camera and said that he deserved to
die and he was a terrible person. Then she came
back and in the video can be seen dancing and
singing a song about our homie being dead, which is
obviously discussing and ridiculous, but I mean almost comedic in
(23:02):
the level of malice. But to me, at least, this
felt more than justified to post because unlike many things
that we've seen where students have come up and in
the spur of the moment said, you know what, he
deserves to die, or things that just demonstrate poor control
over you know, impulsive topics. To me, those people, I
respect their anonymity because these are not public statements, these
(23:25):
are spur of the moment conversations.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
But she was different.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I mean, I'm looking at the paper. It's got like highlighter,
it's got like three types of marker on it. I
mean she drew it out and came back and handed
it to me, and then she came back and danced
more while obviously on camera. So to me, I didn't
think anyone would find it ridiculous to post that because
it was just an obvious interaction which clearly to me
qualifies as a public statement. So she uh one of
(23:53):
the ones I put out that video. I first put
it out on Instagram just for people who I know
to see of what we've been having happened, and pretty
quickly I had a lot of support from friends who
are saying, oh my goodness, because I would I've told
them before, like man, people really are happy out here,
and they're like, oh yeah, but it's just a small minority,
and then they see somebody literally dancing and singing about
(24:13):
the assassination. But you know, so from there I had
very little pushback. But things change whenever I decided to
put it out on Twitter as an example of the
type of climate that we've been seeing down here on
campus and the sort of the conversation and the behavior
that has been deemed okay by some of the professors,
which have now fortunately been let go. And once I
(24:36):
put it out there is when I started to get
some pushback. I know that there's an anonymous university social media.
I had to delete that pretty quick after I went
up because I was reading some stuff and I was like, wow,
this is crazy, and so many people were just more
than willing to throw out false information about me. Later on,
(24:57):
we had to post a screenshot, or we didn't. After
we did, we posted a screenshot where she joined the
Turning Point group chat, which was full of people who
in some cases knew Charlie Kirk and were hurt more
than I ever could have been. And she said more
mocking behavior and called for Trump to be next.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Wow, yeah and stunning, you know, very stunning, And in
fact I want to touch upon that a little bit more.
How we got here and what the last several days
nearly a week in this country have told us informed
us about where things stand in America today. Our guests
(25:38):
today are Jack Lyle, chairman of the Clemson College Republicans,
and Jackson Haberlin, Social chairman of the Clemson College Republicans.
They were, in so many ways the driving force of
making sure that the Clemson community in South Carolina, South
(26:00):
Carolina lawmakers and the public in general understood the sort
of nasty loathsome communications that were going on, very very
publicly with leftist professors and staff members of Clemson celebrating,
literally celebrating the death, the cold blooded killing of conservative leader,
(26:29):
conservative icon Charlie Kirk. I think I talked to both
of you about this study that came out in April.
We reported on it at the Federalist and the report
was conducted by the Network of Contagion Research Institute in
(26:50):
partnership with Rutgers University's Social Perception Lab, and they have
done extensive research and what they found, among other things,
is deeply troubling, and I think it is a reflection
of where we stand today. Fifty five percent of self
identified leftists say killing President Donald Trump is justifiable a
(27:14):
little bit under that said, the same for assassinating Elon
Musk and other conservative leaders. That was in April. It
gave us a sense of where we are today. Unfortunately,
jack let me ask you, as you deal with the
(27:35):
aftermath of this and what you and Jackson have heard
from members of the left celebrating Charlie Kirk's assassination, what
do you think about those numbers and where do you
think it suggests we're going, particularly among the younger population
in America.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, I mean I'm terribly concerned by that, of course,
to see that the left in this country has become
so radicalized, they've become so isolated, and they've become so violent.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
I mean, they really are. They're they're just terribly.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Impulsive a lot of time, and they are they're they're
very difficult to deal with and often often times or
often cases, and so I'm not necessarily surprised by that.
I am terribly concerned by that, of course. To know
that they would, on the mass, on the on the
majority even condone the assassination of a sitting president, and
(28:30):
then a near majority condone the assassination of one of
the most significant, first of all, leaders of industry of
our time, and second, someone who's so popular among so
many in our country. To know that that ultimately they
do wish to death upon so many that they disagree with,
simply for the sake of disagreeing with them, is it's
terribly concerning to know that essentially they are beginning to
(28:52):
abandon the democratic system on masks.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
It's very concerning.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
But it's it's not only that, and I agree with
you totally, but Jackson, it seems to me that it
is also abandoning or a sense of absolute lost. I mean,
I think about how COVID isolated us so much, and
in this digital world, how we're all so most of
us so dependent on communication that isn't real communication, like
(29:24):
the kind of sit down communication that Charlie Kirk advocated for,
like you folks are advocating for on your college campus
when you table, I mean, what do you see among
your fellow students on Clemson's campus, which is a conservative campus.
By the way, Is it cause for alarm Jackson as
(29:49):
you certainly take a look at the violence that is
being reaped from what has been sewed over the last
several years.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I mean, I could say, for me, at least, I
think it's a big cause for an alarm. But I
think more than that, it's an opportunity for normal conservatives
to make their position known. I know, at least for me,
in the wake of posting this and getting some pushback,
I've had many people advise me and say, you know,
this is really could impact your career, This could impact
(30:20):
how people see you speaking on this. But I think
that me and any principled individual should understand that this
is a hill you should be willing to die on
if you have to lose career or lose jobs over
saying that you shouldn't publicly assassinate a Christian and just
a conservative who was not a radical conservative pushing for
(30:41):
a great radical change in this country. He was a
regular conservative. If that response is publicly condemned, then you
should be willing to be condemned. And I know, at
least for me, the only way that I see this
trend stopping and people straying from this is when this
is fully ideologically isolated. This can't be seen as just
(31:05):
one opinion in our spectrum of belief. This needs to
be a clear line, both for people on the right
and on the left. If your solution to discourse is
direct violence, then I think it's important that everyone understands
that is outside of the discourse. That's not about your
opinion you're having, and that's not you know, States rights
versus federal rights. So that's not any historical dispute in
(31:27):
an American government. That is a denial of the ability
to have dispute in American government. And so I know,
at least for me, the trend is scary and the
trend is bothersome. But for me, there's nothing left to
be decided on it. This is where I draw the line,
and this is where I think many Americans are drawing
(31:47):
the line.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
And clearly both you and Jack prove that over and
over again over the last several days. Your turn of
phrase is interesting to me because it has been an expression,
I will die on this hill when it comes to
my beliefs, my support for policies in the political arena,
or so many different ways. That expression has become in
(32:11):
some ways, pat it has four Conservatives, now become a
real statement, a literal statement. Charlie Kirk died on the
hill of his faith and his belief in the exceptionalism
of this republic and its foundational values. You told me yesterday, Jackson,
(32:34):
and I thought this was a very important comment. You
said that Charlie Kirk's death impacted you on a personal
level like it has. I think so many conservatives because
you said, down deep, I'm thinking, if they think Kirk
(32:54):
deserves to die, I'm a conservative, do I deserve to die?
I mean? Are those the thoughts running through your minds
this week? After all we've seen, after all you have seen.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
I know for me it definitely is the campaign that
we were initially going to primarily focus on before the
professor information came out, we obviously prioritize that is do
we deserve death? That's the idea, you know, because I'm
a conservative like Charlie Kirk, I'm a Christian like Charlie Kirk,
and from what I'm seeing, these hur really the only
(33:30):
two big damning claims that earned him the death penalty
according to some people. So I know, for me at least,
it is a scary thing in some ways, it's bothersome,
but it's something that's on my mind and almost a
motivating way that if this is the outcome that some
people see fit for you, then that is your motivation
(33:52):
to fight and to push harder and to keep going.
Because it's not a game anymore. It's not too many people,
and to assuming that study's accurate to fifty five percent
of the population, this isn't a game of ideology versus ideology,
and you know who can win the Democratic debate or
you know, the presidential debates coming up. This is an
(34:12):
idea of true life and death for many people, and
it's something that for me at least is serving as
great motivation this time, and that that message keeps popping
up in my head has more reason to keep fighting
and keep speaking out because already what I've said, just
being a conservative is already a death warrant, So why
(34:33):
stop there.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
That's sad to me, because you're right, it has now
become civilization versus absolute anarchy. That's unfortunately about where we
are with this kind of mentality. And you're an eighteen
year old young man. You shouldn't have to think about
death sentences. You should think about all of the things
(34:56):
that life has to offer. Jack you're not much older,
but you have been around the Clemson campus for a
few more years. You're a junior poly sci major. What
do you think about your chosen profession and how dangerous
it has become for just in general in politics, but
especially for conservatives in politics.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah, you know, at the end of the day, I
see the thread against myself and Jackson and so many
of our good friends and those around our community, as actually.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
As motivation in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
I see first and foremost that just the day before
Charlie's assassination, we were out at the very same spot
that we've been tabling for so long now. We had
a sign that read concealed carry on campus, Yes or no,
And we got about one hundred and ten yes votes
in about forty no. And I tell you right now,
(35:52):
I really wish that we were able to carry on
campus because we do. We have so many who are
so violent, who are so rhetoric driven by their isolation,
by their ideology, and by their disillusion with not only
our country but with really reality on the left where
now I mean, you know, Jackson has expressed to me
(36:12):
a number of times that he really does feel.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
As though it is unsafe for us to table.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
It's unsafe for really any of us to be recognized publicly,
because in the event that we were, if one of
these people who is so isolated, impulsive, deranged decides to
take action against us, we are left defenseless for the
most part by the university's policies, by the state's policies
to disarm us when we are on campus or on
(36:37):
associated properties. And so for that to be the case,
that's one of our big next steps moving forward is
we're going to be really advocating for campus scary.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
We're going to be really advocating for the.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Ability of conservatives, of decent, normal people who are willing
to condemn political violence, to be able to defend themselves
using the tools that are made readily available to them
and the right for which is guaranteed to them by
the US Constitution.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
That's an important point in such an important protection in liberty. Obviously,
that's what we've been talking about, for better or worse,
over the last several days in this country, and what
the deranged left feels about that issue and what is
justice in their minds now, jack you had told me,
(37:25):
and I think this is important. I want to make
sure that we talk about this in our conversation. You
had told me when when, when we were talking yesterday,
that it may come across as you and Jackson and
others in the Clemson College Republicans that you know, you're
bashing your university, you know you're you are you know,
(37:47):
at war with the administration. And you said that simply
is not the case. You told me how much you
love this university, how much you respect and how much
you wanted to go to this university. And I think
that is exactly at the center of what we are
talking about today. You can love something or someone but
(38:10):
still see the flaws in that something or someone and
I think that's what you were trying to bring to
the attention of the public at Clemson University. Am I
am I correct in saying so absolutely?
Speaker 4 (38:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
So the line that I've run and so hard these
last few days is that and I and my members
love Clemson University enough to advocate for it, enough to fight.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
For what's right within it. Now.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
If we did not love Clemson, we would have just
turned tail and run when we heard these things. I
would have just said, you know what, I'll go somewhere
where these people aren't. But because I want to be here,
because I love Clemson so much, I want to be
on this campus, and I want to feel safe here.
I want to feel as though I am welcome here.
I want to feel as though my ideology is not necessarily,
as Jackson put it, a death warrant on this campus.
(38:59):
And so I'm very encouraged to see that again today.
This morning, the university put out a statement to declaring
that they have dismissed the other two individuals who are
involved in these investigations. And then just this afternoon at
twelve thirty, I was able to sit down and had
the opportunity to sit down and have lunch with a
member of administration and talk through so much of what's
gone on this last week, and talk through what the
(39:21):
future looks like. And I have to say I'm very,
very encouraged by that conversation, by how things went, really
throughout this entire process, dealing directly with members of administration,
And again, I just want to say, I love Glenson
so much, I really do.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
This is what I find particularly encouraging. What you both
told me yesterday was in such darkness as we are
experiencing over the last several days in this country, the
shining bright light beaming down is that the Clemson College
(39:59):
Republicans and Turning Point USA it's chapter on Clemson University,
which is one of the largest chapters in the country,
has seen explosive interest in either people joining or actually
becoming members. Jackson, what are the numbers today that you're seeing? Again,
(40:22):
my understanding is that these are some pretty significant numbers
of people who want to be involved in the conservative movement.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I mean, it's hard to keep count. I know that
we're over one hundred.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Jack Do you have a specific number, yeah, I do,
so to give reference in the last five days, specifically
since last Wednesday, we have gained forty seven new members
here at the Clemson College Republicans.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Now, I can't give as specific.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
A number for our Turning Point chapter, but Charlie Klant's
the president down here of Turning Point USA's chapter at Clemson.
He said that more than four hundred people joined their
group me and that they had gained more than one
hundred new members through our registration system, which is called
Tiger Request. So presumably have somewhere in the neighborhood of
four to five hundred new individuals who are looking to
(41:12):
get involved with them.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Are really encouraged to see that.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
That is amazing. With that in mind, Jackson, what do
you think Charlie Kirk would think of your efforts over
the last week.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
That's a big ask. I mean, I think what I'm
doing is in line with his vision, and that's kind
of what I've thought over and over again. I know
when I was the night of his death, we all
went out to dinner and we were all talking about,
like what do we do because it was a very
big like TPUSA didn't know what to do, our other
organizations didn't know what to do. It was a big shock.
(41:50):
And I know when I talked to Jack. What I
kept saying is I think that we should be tabling tomorrow.
That's what Charliekirk would have done. And I think repeatedly
throughout this process myself, what would the Lord want me
to do and what would Charlie Kirk do in the scenario.
And I've been in that I found that those two
goals are very often in line. So I think that
(42:13):
what I've done has honored his vision. I know that's
my purpose with all of this action. That's the reason
why I'm trying to do it is to keep that
alive because that is a big hole that he has
left that. I think it's up for young conservatives that
were like him when he first got started to fill
that hole. And I know that I have bigger plans.
I'm in talks of starting an organization that will in
(42:34):
some ways carry alive that mentality, and I think it's
a I think he'd be proud of what we're doing here.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Good for you.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
It's a free speech organization that's you're interested on campus?
Am I correct in saying?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So? Yeah, the small details are still being decided, but
I'm interested in trying to promote free discourse on campus
in a balanced way that help students get involved.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
So, then Jack, I ask you the same thing. You know,
you didn't exactly know what you wanted to do the
night of the assassination of Charlie Kirk. You knew what
you had to do. Now moving forward, Jack, what would
you like to do? What do you want to do?
What do you have to do in terms of your
(43:28):
career path and your life path?
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yeah, well, so first things first is we're going to
keep the gas pedal down here on campus. We're going
to keep standing for what we believe in. We're going
to keep standing for ultimately what's right. We're going to
keep spreading the message of the Gospel. We're going to
keep standing for conservative values. And then moving beyond that,
we're going to work with as many as we can
in government. We're going to work as many with as
many as we can, and in special interest groups and
(43:53):
in the media to make sure that that we bring
back sanity, that we bring back decency, that we bring
back peaceful discourse to the country and to those who
stand for it.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Well, I want to tell you, as I talked about before,
the darkness in this country in the last several days
has been intense, but the darker things are the brighter,
the true light shine. You two are among that prism
of light that we are seeing. It gives I think
so many of us so much hope, not just for
(44:25):
the conservative movement, but for this country, this exceptional republic
in general. Thanks for all that you're doing and keep
up the good work.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Absolutely, yes, sir, thank you, mister Carrol, really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Thank you very much that sentiment. It's very meaningful to me.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
We appreciate both of you and the good work you're doing.
Thanks to my guest today, Jack Lyle, Chairman of the
Clemson College Republicans, and Jackson Haberlin, Social chairman of the
Clemson College Republicans, you've been listening to another edition of
the Realist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior elections correspondent
at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then,
(45:07):
stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray.
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