July 17, 2025 • 50 mins
We’re diving into the world of polyamorous relationships with breakup coach and podcaster Janice Formichella, and Jodi Dreher—a personal and business coach who brings emotional fluency, wit, and real-life experience navigating ethical non-monogamy with his three partners. From breakups to boundaries, we're talking radical honesty, love, and what it really takes to build authentic connection(s).
Fifty Shades of Bullshit is broadcast live Thursdays at 4PM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Fifty Shades of Bullshit TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Fifty Shades of Bullshit Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Fifty Shades of Bullshit is broadcast live Thursdays at 4PM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Fifty Shades of Bullshit TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Fifty Shades of Bullshit Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The following show contains adult content. It's not our intent
to offend anyone, but we want to inform you that
if you are a child under the age of eighteen
or get offended easily, this next show may not be
for you. The content, opinions, and subject matter of these
shows are solely the choice of your show hosts and
their guests, and not those of the Entertainment Network or
any affiliated stations. Any comments or inquiry should be directed
(00:23):
to those show hosts. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey everyone, and welcome to Fifty Shades of Bullshit. I'm
your host, Christine Lalan and this is the podcast where
we uncover the truth about online dating.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Now let's begin.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Where are we?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Hi, everyone, this is crazy.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Here we are. I'm Janie and I'm Steve.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
This is fifty Shades motherfucking Bullshit.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
So hi everyone, Yep, surprise, Christian and I are in
the same spot.
Speaker 6 (01:06):
Imagine that. I know.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
I traveled to Denver last night, and I'm heading up
to Wyoming tonight to see my family and stay in
the TV. I'm staying in a TP on the planes
to honor my mom. It was her birthday yesterday and
I was trying to get in a day earlier, so
I could do it honor birthday. But whatever, she doesn't
care dates a date, whatever number is a number. So
(01:30):
I'm heading up to see family for a couple of
days and then I'll be back to LA.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
But also she's coming back here first to hang out
with me, So that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
How's your week, Ben Steve?
Speaker 6 (01:42):
My week has been good, pretty eventful, busy, busy. I
went to a manufacturer's conference in Burbank for adult toys.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I hate.
Speaker 6 (01:56):
Every kind of every kind and shape a vibrator you
can imagine.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
So who do you know that invited you to that?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Uh?
Speaker 6 (02:04):
One of the manufacturers, one of the biggest manufacturers that
actually creates the show every year. Doc Johnson is one
of the most famous sex toy manufacturers, and I have
a friend who works for them.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
I've been looking for a place to broadcast from to
do an episode from.
Speaker 7 (02:19):
Oh my God. That's such a good idea. I want
to do it for sex and the solo girl too.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, body up somehow. Yeah, So there's one that said
that I'm welcome there anytime already, and so I'd love
to do a warehouse and just go, you know, mobile
on the episode and just kind of you know, a
different produced one. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
I want to do that too. Oh plus one.
Speaker 6 (02:42):
Next year you could probably even do giveaways and all
kinds of stuff that would.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Be a blast.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Let's do it.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Aria is actually a new sponsor for Sex and the
Solo Girl. Oh nice, yep, I'm getting my first box sent.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah. Do they have a variety of different.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
Yeah, they have a couple. They have like a concierge
service where you go and you actually talk one on
one with somebody to tell them kind of what type
of experience you're trying to curate, and then they put
a package together.
Speaker 7 (03:11):
For you and send it.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Nice.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
I love that.
Speaker 7 (03:14):
Yeah. So I'm getting to impact a package cent first.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Oh yeah, yeah, awesome.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
I love that. Well, we have a really great episode
for you guys today. We are talking about more than
one polyamory and I'm really excited about it because I
did it before. We had an episode in the very
beginning of the of the series pot of this podcast.
I'm so jet lagged for today. I am like, looked,
(03:43):
something kicked.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
My ass today.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
I don't know what it is, but we have had
this topic on before. I had a really beautiful lesbian
woman on who talked about in the lesbian community of
the polyamory. And so today we're doing in the straight world.
Speaker 7 (04:03):
So I'm straight is straightish.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I could not find Jody's freaking bio. So we're just
gonna bring Jody on and we're.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
Just gonna time.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
I So I'm the connection here.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
I know Jody from the local Denver Polly or a
non monogamous community, so I will say that that's how
we came to know him.
Speaker 7 (04:24):
I suggested him as a guest.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yep, yep, so Rebel, you can bring on Jody. Hey, Jody,
welcome to fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
How's it going awesome? I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Oh, we are excited to have you. So yeah, Janis
was just saying that she knows you through her poly
world connection, and I, you know, talk to you, and
we had a chance to really talk before the show
a couple of weeks ago. I really enjoy you. So
tell us a little, tell the world a little about you.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
And yeah, so I'm Jody, I'm polyamorous. Yeah, here we are.
Speaker 8 (05:03):
It's actually it is actually well timed because it's actually
non monogamous. It was just non monogamous Week of Visibility
and non Monogamous Day of Visibility I.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Think was about two days ago. Just a lot of
exciting things.
Speaker 8 (05:16):
And I think it's so well timed in the world
and the grand scheme of things, because there is kind
of this renaissance and this movement happening of more of
us being feeling more comfortable being open about our relationship structures,
of our lifestyles.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
So I'm polyamorous. I'm really proud of that.
Speaker 8 (05:33):
I'm in the Denver area also, just right down the
highway from you guys. I think right now I have
three partners.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I am a coach.
Speaker 8 (05:42):
I coach life, business, and personal, and I coach and
work with people who are ethically non monogamous and who
also are involved in traditional relationships too. It's something that
I am supportive of whatever route people like to take,
but it's important to me for people to know what
the options are and I I'm really glad to be here.
(06:05):
I have my personal vision is to help people discover, explore,
and express their authenticity and their sexuality and to provide
safe spaces for them to do that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
So I think we've created a safe space.
Speaker 8 (06:17):
Here for your listeners, and I'm really excited for them
to be able to discover and maybe explore what's out there.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
So, Janice, you are also in the poly world. I'll
start We'll start with Janis for a second. How did
you get involved in How did you know that this
was the right thing for you?
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Okay, good question, thank you. So I actually did not
know it was the right thing for me. I lived
in Australia for many years, and when I was over there,
I had the opportunity to pretty much for the first time,
run into non monogamous person after non monogamous person, maybe
the circles I was in very experimental, lots of spiritual seekers,
(06:59):
and I would yet asked out by a lot of
polyamorous men so much so it like became this thing
in my life.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
But I would always say no.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
I'm the oldest of seven children, and so I always
thought that because I did not get enough attention growing up,
I was always attention start always wanted more, that I
wouldn't be able to be very good at being polyamorous
because I'm going to always want more attention.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And ask my.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Current partner, who's going to come over here in a
minute and say hi. Still to this day, I definitely
yeah like that. But like I said, it kept on
coming up over and over. I had many conversations with
the poly men harassing me out, and I remember telling
one of them this this thing about being feeling always
attention hungry, and he did say to me, you know what,
(07:49):
You're probably you're right, it might not be for you.
Then I was at a music festival, a Shout Out
Rainbow Serpent festival in Victoria, and I have had a
fling with this amazing sexy man while we were there,
who was Polly. Turns out that whilst we were having
the fling, he had one of his poly male friends
(08:12):
come and stay at the camp with us, who then
I had a fling with as well.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Okay, and they were like kind.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Of sharing, sharing me, and my mind was just blown
because they were both so respectful, so caring, They were
on such good terms with each other, and they would
sit there say very complimentary, respectful things about me. It
ended up being this beautiful experience, so much so that
one of them approached me at the end of the
(08:39):
festival saying, do you feel like you've changed your mind
about being polyamorous, and I said, again, I don't know,
because you know, my parents never gave me enough attention
and I never really felt that loved. And he said, well,
let me just ask you something. Do you ever feel
have you ever felt like you had more love and
attention as you did this weekend between the two of them.
(09:03):
And I was like, sold, like, you're so right, and
I just like yeah, I.
Speaker 7 (09:12):
Just and so I just kind of like got into it.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
And in fact, I stayed seeing one of them for
quite a long time.
Speaker 7 (09:19):
He had I think four other partners, and I got
to know all of them really well.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
We would all hang out sometimes some sexy stuff, but
mostly everybody just kind of.
Speaker 7 (09:29):
Hang in we you know. I remember one time he
took me in one of the other.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Women to the movies, and you know, he's like all
holding hands and it was a great way.
Speaker 7 (09:39):
To begin the lifestyle.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
Like, really, I feel so lucky that that is how
I got into it.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
What about you, Jody, how did you originally get into it?
How did you know it was for you? What was
that process?
Speaker 8 (09:53):
Oh my gosh. First of all, what a beautiful story, Jannis.
Thank you so much for sharing that and that's one
of my favorite things. We have such a beautiful community year.
And since I've been in in the lifestyle, which is
a term where he's really broadly now, I've loved hearing
people's stories. And my story is this over I was
married for twenty years. I was monogamous with my former spouse.
(10:16):
We decided to explore swinging is what we knew it
as when we were married, toward the end of our marriage,
and so we started exploring ethical non monogamy as swingers,
and we, you know, I think this is a common
track for a lot of people. We we started swinging,
(10:37):
which it means, I don't know what the listeners know.
You know, swing is usually where you swap with other
couples in kind of a sexual environment, and so we
experimented with that.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
We thought, well, that was really fun, Like that was
really exciting.
Speaker 8 (10:51):
That was really an adventurous We'd only been with each
other for almost twenty years, and we thought that was
really cool, and we did that a couple of times,
like it was cool, but it's you know, it's kind
of we thought it might be more fulfilling if we
had some kind of connection with these people we knew
them you know, we people seem like strangers.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So for me, I kind of and I think my former.
Speaker 8 (11:10):
Spouse as well, kind of evolved and discovered this demi
sexual side of us where where we really wanted to
or required some kind of emotional connection or depth to
the connection to be able.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
To perform for each other sexually.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
So and then from demi sexuality we my former wife
and I completed our marriage soon after we started exploring
the lifestyle. We grew in different directions, and for me,
I evolved into polyamory.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Where I felt so full of love. And you know, guys, this.
Speaker 8 (11:40):
Is really interesting actually because something I've said throughout my
life to people and my coaching business and everything, and
it's you know, I don't feel like that we necessarily
change as humans, so to speak. I say, and I
know this is debatable, but rather we change back to
who we truly are at our core throughout moments in
our life. And for me, I thought back my life
and I thought, this is how I've been, you know,
(12:02):
this is how if someone came to explain it as
being a love slut. But I was always this hopeless,
romantic kind of guy as a young man, and I
always felt so full of love, and it was something
that I really grappled with, kind of exploring polyamory and
is it right. And I came from a large traditional
(12:23):
family as well, Jani's seven, four brothers and two sisters.
I was in the middle, so I've got middle kid syndrome.
But you know, for it just felt right. It felt
so good, and it felt natural, and it felt like me.
And when I once I had had some exposure to it,
and then I began to withdraw from that little bit
(12:44):
and take away, it didn't feel good.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
It didn't feel right, and it didn't feel like I
was being authentic.
Speaker 8 (12:49):
So I've been on this journey of authenticity for several
years now and here I am a polyamorous person full
of love. And I think the great analogy is, you know,
people under how how the how the love is I have?
If if our hearts are our whole one hundred percent,
then you know do you do? Do I have a
third of my love? You know, third of my love
for reach my partners, and I don't I have one
(13:11):
hundred percent love reach my partners. And for those listeners
who have children, that's that's the analogy. You you love
all you of your children equally. I love all of
my partners in the same way. That's a little bit
about my journey.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I'm wondering how do you navigate jealousy and polyamory because
coming from uh, someone who's in you know, the monogamous world,
you know, jealousy is a massive part of it. I
don't think it's healthy. Let's start with that. And I
think it's ridiculous. I only felt like massive, crazy, crazy,
(13:49):
uh jealousy because my ex husband used to do ship
in front of me to get me going on purpose
the things he knew that was my my her pain
spots and he would dig it, those motherfuckers, And so
jealousy was boligile for me. It was horrible and I
don't I don't really feel those kind of feelings anymore
(14:12):
because that thing is gone out of my life. That
thing so thing one, two and three are gone. So
how do you navigate it though? In this world?
Speaker 8 (14:25):
And I'm sure it's interesting and what a horrible feeling
jealousy is.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And I have felt it before, and I agree that
it's not healthy. It's not healthy for us. I will
also add to that it is also normal.
Speaker 8 (14:40):
It happens, and I love how you framed the question
how do you navigate it?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
You didn't ask how do you not have it? Or
how do you combat it?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Because it's a normal thing to feel, and we feel
it too.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
That's one of the misconceptions that some people have is
that we are able to do it because we don't
experience jealousy in the same way.
Speaker 7 (14:58):
We navigate it differently. A lot of us do it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, And let's start real quick with what is jealousy.
Speaker 8 (15:03):
Well, jealousy is this feeling or idea or sense that
we're going to lose something to someone else, or lose
something someone or something to someone else.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
And this is actually well timed.
Speaker 8 (15:16):
I was leading some workshops at a big dn M
convention last weekend and one of the workshops was called
Feeling Good when We Shouldn't, a compersion workshop for real
life M and compersion has been described by some as
the opposite of jealousy. And I've so you asked, how
(15:36):
do I navigate it? You know, one of the things
I've done is I've trained myself. I've taught myself I
practice bringing more compersion into my life.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
And what compersion is.
Speaker 8 (15:46):
Is filling joy or pleasure for other people's pleasure. I
love seeing my partners succeed. I love supporting them in
the pursuit of their goals.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I love watching them.
Speaker 8 (16:01):
Have pleasure in any way, whether it has anything to
do with me or not.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
That for me, that's my love for them.
Speaker 8 (16:08):
So just being able to feel those feelings for them
and to feel really secure in our relationship and our
feelings for each other. When two people are securely attached
and feel that way, then I'm not saying we won't
have jealousy, but maybe it's maybe it's minimized, and maybe
it maybe we can put it in a place where
(16:29):
we can navigate it and work through it, honor it,
name it, and you know, try and try to understand
where it's coming from. You know, jealous feelings of jealousy
author often come from a place of needs or comparison
or something.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Right, Jennis, Yeah, fear.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
A lot of it and along those lines as far
as navigating it with each other. We are often known
to be a very communicative people, which is good, and
it is a lot of it about talking with your
partner when it comes up and have being conversations about
(17:05):
it and being honest. I'm feeling this way I need to,
you know, let's see what we can do to cope
with it together.
Speaker 7 (17:12):
Facing it head on. It does wonders for jealousy.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
Things that I come up with when I work with
couples a lot is the distinction between jealousy and envy.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
And you touched on this and jealousy.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
We as we talk about it more, see that it's
based in scarcity, like if you have something that I want,
I can't have it or it's not available to me,
whereas envy means that you can have it and I
could have it too, and I don't feel threatened by
you having whatever it is, whether it's another person, being
related to and connected to another person, or as some
(17:47):
kind of object or accomplishment. So I think a lot
of times when I'm working with couples, it's a matter
of developing the distinction of envy, kind of moving from
jealousy to envy, because we grow up thinking that, you know,
if I if I share my candy bar with you
and I give it to you, I have less now.
(18:07):
So we kind of learn that, you know, if I
give something away or if something's then less of it
is available to me. So so I think envy is
a more mature space.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
To come to also, where as far as jealousy goes
and how we're raised, like with the candy bar, we
grow up with depictions of jealousy all around us that
are romanticized and made. I mean, we're raised to think
that this is somehow romantic or just a healthy way
that you respond to somebody triggering you. And that's also
(18:40):
I think a big part of the problem when it
comes to jealousy control possessiveness and relationships.
Speaker 9 (18:46):
And looks like jealousy is depicted sometimes as love and
I don't if he's if he or she is jealous
or me, they love.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Me, they're just so passionate about me. Yeah. I always
had this feeling that when there's this big like drama fighting,
you know, just like all this turmoil and people called
it passion I was thinking, what the what the why?
Why is this such? Why are we talking about this
(19:18):
in a in a way that that romanticizes it and
doesn't you know, really talk about how unhealthy it is.
I need to get to the comments.
Speaker 7 (19:28):
How do I get Oh, okay, no, it's right here.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Okay, So Missy said the different what's the difference between
polyamory and polygamy, Well do either one of you, but
I you know, most of us here, Janice myself, I
don't know about you. Jody definitely. I don't think Steve.
We were Mormon at some point. J yeah, Jody, Jody.
(19:52):
That's four here have been Mormon, mine for a shorter period, converted,
then left, you know, within five six years. But you know,
polygamy is where you're having a marriage with one person
and non legal marriages with other commitments, verbal commitments, which
(20:17):
I think is great. I don't see a problem with it.
The thing is is that polygamy and polyamory is the
polygamists are using it as a marriage tool. For every
single one of them. They're emphasizing and they all pretty
much live in the same place and they yeah, sometimes
they don't, but.
Speaker 7 (20:36):
Most of the ways to do these things.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
What's your thoughts on the difference between those.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
That's that's really interesting and that's a great question.
Speaker 8 (20:45):
And I believe that is the big distinction that polygamy
is involves the institution of marriage, which is legal in
the United States. Polyamory, let's break down the word a
little bit, poly and amory. If you look at the
roots of those words, amory. Are you know Polly is many, right,
and amory is amorous? Is love to love so many loves?
(21:06):
I think, simply put in my heart, that's what in
my mind, That's what polyamory is, is to have many loves.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
That's how I distinguish.
Speaker 8 (21:14):
I don't know that much about polygamy other than our
collective upbringing here, and.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
That's why we all laugh too.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
And Missy, why are you asking that? Is I have
something to do with Mormons and pop culture? Yeah, I'm
curious about about that. And some people tease me sometimes
Jody that maybe one reason I am naturally Polly or
how I do well with it might be because of
my family heritage, because I came directly from Riamy.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Well, Mickey's question is very similar to what I was
about to ask, is how are you navigating or integrating
into family and friends without a big you know, separation
or critique or judgment. How do how do you guys
handle that kind of thing?
Speaker 7 (22:03):
I mean, I let you go.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
Jody is really really good at this, But I want
to say, especially because it is no monogamous, A week
of visibility and day of visibility and we are getting
a lot of traction in the media these days. Please
everyone listening, just be as open and out as you
possibly can about your lifestyle, because you make it safer
(22:25):
for all of us to do it.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
And I have.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
I just put everything online because partially because of growing
up Mormon, because I'd hide so.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
Much about myself for so long.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
But I'm just as open as I can be about it,
so that's not even a question.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
It doesn't come up much, and that's just it too.
It's a matter of pride.
Speaker 8 (22:43):
And I mentioned yesterday, I do feel like we're in
this movement or this renaissance, and I actually call it
the great coming Out. And I am so grateful to
the people who came before us in the LGBT key
lgb Q T plus community, who taught us all how
to be brave, how to be courageous, how to come
(23:05):
out of the closet. And I think we're coming into
this time where we've discovered there's people who are living
all types of alternative lifestyles, just like the gay community was.
And and what a great example they've been of pride
and how to be proud and how to come back
Right now, just because of that, it's still really difficult
(23:25):
and everyone's at their own place with that, in their
own situations with.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Their families and everything. For me, I've you know, tested
the waters.
Speaker 8 (23:32):
I've chosen to be very open and very proud of
it because I am, because I because I simply end
I understand it for what it is. I have was
riddled with shame and guilt growing up from religious organized religion,
and I don't want to feel that way anymore. I
don't want my kids to feel that way anymore, and
(23:53):
so I've actually chosen. Very recently, we did this great
segment with gend Garrity. She's out of Denver as well.
I know, No Jen, Hi Jen, if you're listening for
Week of Visibility where she had these video segments where
she talked to parents about how they talk to their
children about these things.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
And I was a guest on there.
Speaker 8 (24:10):
And I shared this with her as well, where I've
had age appropriate conversations with my teenage children. And the
most important thing to me for my children to know
is that they know my primary partner or my core partner.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
They kind of know her or knew her before they
knew my.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
Other partners, and they were very protective of her once
they started seeing and hearing that, you know, Dad might
have other partners in his life. They wanted to make
sure that she knew about it and what they were
used to. And I told my children and I said,
I'm very proud.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Of these people. They're meaningful people in my lives.
Speaker 8 (24:43):
I said, I don't want you to think that I'm
cheating on DMA, my primate partner.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I am not.
Speaker 8 (24:48):
These women are not conkybines, they're not affairs, they're not mistresses.
They are women who I love and care deeply about,
and they're important parts.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Of my life.
Speaker 8 (24:56):
So it was really a really great opportunity to have
earning moments with my children and to teach them that
there's other alternatives out there to the way that we've
been traditionally raised and traditionally programmed.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Anaesthesia actually has a really good question. She says, have
you ever had to counsel someone who told a partners
they wanted to be a swinger? Have you had that
kind of dealings like helping people understand how to how
to handle.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
That all the time?
Speaker 7 (25:24):
Yeah, I have, you go first.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
It comes in all different flavors and all different types.
Speaker 8 (25:29):
I mean, sometimes it's it's a couple where one person
is interested in it and one person is hesitant or
vice versa, or they're both interested, they don't know how
to approach it.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
They're dealing with all kinds of emotions.
Speaker 8 (25:40):
So I think, you know, that's how I that's that's
where I really started leaning into this side of my coaching,
was people reaching out to me and asking me, how
do we navigate this?
Speaker 3 (25:50):
How do we deal with this? I want to do this.
You know, he's he's.
Speaker 8 (25:53):
You know, he's not interested, or he's scared, or he's jealous.
So I think it happens all the time. And for me,
I don't promote any type of relationship structure or lifestyle
as being the.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
True one, the right one, because because.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
There's so many different ways that people can that things
work for each other. It's you know, I have to
say that on.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
Sex and the Soul Girl all the time, Like monogamy
is valid as well.
Speaker 6 (26:19):
Just right.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
No, so we're not saying it's not right, but.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
It changes the face of the relationship possibly forever. And
so what I'll say is I've had more friends come
to me probably about those than clients. And what I'll
say is you have to be equally enthusiastic about doing
it is the first right just to start for me.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
The thing is that you know it brings up things
because you know, I'm going home and I'm from a
very small town in Wyoming called chug Water, and it's
literally under just under two hundred people, and most of
the people in town are either related to me or
somebody I would never date. So I didn't have boyfriends
(27:05):
in my hometown in high school.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
I participated in a lot of activities music, arts, sports,
everything everything, and when I would travel to other towns
that we were in our county or whatever that we
would compete against, I would have a boyfriend in each
town because I would only see them a couple of
(27:31):
times a year. They would come to my hometown for
a sport event, I would go to their hometown for
a sporting event. Then that was basketball, then it was volleyball,
then it was cheerleading, then it was track, then it
was music. So I had boyfriends in different towns and
I didn't even really think about it, but for me,
I needed that because, like you, Jenis, I never really had,
(27:51):
you know, any kind of someone teaching me or showing
me what love felt like. And I really longed for it.
And I also realize that when I had boyfriends in
all different towns, I got something different from all of
them that created a whole for me, like a whole unit.
Like not anybody ever really fulfilled one thing for me.
(28:15):
So I don't know, does that mean I want to
be pallaired.
Speaker 7 (28:21):
Some of it? Like that's kind of how I feel now.
Speaker 5 (28:24):
So I have a partner who's going to come over
and say, Hi, Chris.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
He's like me, now, where Janis is partner?
Speaker 7 (28:37):
My partner?
Speaker 8 (28:38):
Chris?
Speaker 4 (28:41):
He's like, yeah, I have more than one girlfriend.
Speaker 7 (28:45):
He manages.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Yeah, now, Chris, you have a wife and Janice and
another girlfriend. Right, Okay, I'm sure there's been instances where
you've had to really juggle some ship dowing the three.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Oh, I know, I do.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
That's why I I'm being very diplomatic about it. How
is it been a challenge for you? Is it make
it worth it for you when it finally is starting
to iron out? What's the deal?
Speaker 10 (29:10):
I mean, it can be a challenge at times, like
you're managing everyone's expectations right, needs and wants and boundaries
and all of that. So I guess that when I
started with kind of exploring into polyamory. I heard really
good advice from someone and it was that love is infinite,
(29:30):
but time is not. So it's uh, I mean spending
a lot of time planning and a lot of time
and investment into making your relationships important and grow. And yeah,
time is a big component of that.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
I love that I got the jackpa.
Speaker 7 (29:53):
But what I was going to say just around like
getting your needs met.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
So Chris has three partners, but he's my only and
heard it that is, he fulfills lots of my needs.
But also I have lots of friends who fulfill a
lot of my other emotional needs, and that is one
reason I don't tend to be as many as my friends.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah, fill that gap.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
What about you, Steve, have you ever considered a been
part or or are you? I don't even know if
you're monogamous.
Speaker 11 (30:23):
You don't know much about me, Like I mean, I
like being a mystery, so I want to I'm glad
to ask because I want to point to something I
think everybody goes through while they're really confronting this is
you actually have to be curious.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
I think that.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
While people are sorting it out for themselves, you have
to be clumsy, you have to be curious, you have
to be willing to step into the unknown. And there
was a time that I was really fascinated by this
and myself and I'm monogamous by choice, but I went
through a lot of curiosity and part of what I
see and kind of you hinted at this channel is
(30:59):
I have a very rich life with friends. I also
have a very rich professional life. I take care of
a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
I'm managing a.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
Lot of people's emotions. So when I'm doing mostly counseling
on Zoom in person, and so when I come home,
it's not that's not what I desire.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
I really got to that by by mindfully thinking it
through and experimenting songs like what really works for me.
So I really honor and I actually coach a lot
of people who are in different, you know, styles of
relationships because I know what it takes. It takes an
incredible level of communication and mindfulness and consciousness about how
you're going to be related to each person. Can we
(31:45):
touched a couple sub distinctions or definitions that a lot
of people might not know, So you said, E and
M so, and I think the E is so important
we can't we can't say it enough ethical, non monogaby ethical.
So what that says is that you're in communication about
(32:06):
all aspects of your relationship, who you're seeing, how often
you're seeing it. So we can't talk about polyamory and
non monogamy without boundaries, without talking about boundaries and how
are we co creating this relationship. So I'm like to
the group to talk about it because I'm sure that
at the heart of having your relationships here I ploral
(32:29):
work is that each of everybody's got to be in alignment.
And I also just want to highlight somebody put in
the chat. Do you feel it should be a relationship
breaker if you can't see this being a part of
your lifestyle. And I think that's something you can kind
of tie that together with what I just mentioned, is like,
how do you negotiate boundaries if if everybody's not quite
on the same page. So I'll give that to you off.
(32:50):
That's something that I coach people with a lot when
they're struggling with it. So go ahead and I'll be
quiet now.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
No, no, I love it. So a piggybacking on what
you said, Steve A. Communication is key for any relationship husband, wife, spouse.
I just said all the same things in three different worlds.
I'm meant to say, children, work.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
And relationships.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
And I don't know why just those three now, But
when we're communicating, you know, I'm curious what communications skills
are essential for a HOY relationship that might be overlooked
in a non you know, like a monogamous.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
I think actually the jealousy component for yeah, for sure.
Or I'm feeling I'm feeling this this way. I mean,
like we have been going through things on like agreements
as far as like when we're parts and things that
come up with me when we are and it's just
about voicing, like just so you know, I'm feeling really
challenged by this, Like no matter what it.
Speaker 8 (33:53):
Is, I think, you know, from a communication aspect, I've
I've heard that all the time.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I know someone's kind of joked one time.
Speaker 8 (34:01):
You almost have to have a doctorate in communication successful
poly relationship and I think it's and as you said, Christine,
it's important in all types of relationships.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
The communication in poly relationships.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
That are successful tend to be more very frequent and
a level of openness and awareness that I maybe haven't
observed in as many monogamous relationships can become comfortable. There's
obviously not as many challenges to the relationship or or
I'm searching for the right words.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
I you know, these these these obstacles and.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
These challenges that we deal with in polyamorous relationships are
sometimes different, I think than monogamous relationships. I think that
any and any type of relationship you can learn a
lot from people who are taking this Polly journey.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
And you know, and and and and.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
Understanding, you know, being being hyper aware or much more
aware of of your of your of your partner feelings,
of what they might be thinking. And I I just, uh,
it's it's it's it's it's critical. And I think polyamer's
relationships I think Steve had mentioned in Coordinating Times and
(35:14):
and uh being you know, that's what being ethical is,
I think, is being really open about it. And that's
such an important part. And I'm glad you pointed that out, Steve,
the E and the E and m I say that
all the time. It's that's the most important part.
Speaker 7 (35:29):
You want to say that.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
I do want to say something along the lines of
what Anesesia was asking, though she was saying, you know,
should it be a deal breaker if you're I.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
You know what.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Everybody to each his own and if it doesn't work
for you personally, I say that that's the universe telling
you that that's not your person. It is okay to
have boundaries, you know, and it's okay to feel like
you know this isn't for me, and you move you
move on. I don't think that if a partner asks
(36:05):
you if you can do this and it's not for you,
that that partner should stay just because of you, because
I think that relationship will deteriorate very quickly, so you
have to be very aware of that. And if you
can communicate together and maybe do therapy, maybe do marriage counseling,
(36:26):
maybe you can. Maybe it was just like this random
thought your your spouse had, But you know, personally, I don't.
I don't think that everybody's meant for everybody. And I
don't also, for the first time in my life, think
that that one person is meant for you for your
entire life. I really don't. I think that we all
change so much and throughout our lives. We're different as teenagers,
(36:50):
we're worldly different in our twenties from when we are
at any point in our lives. We grow a little
more in our thirties, our forties, our fifties, or you know.
And I just I don't think that two people can
grow in the same direction together. I don't think everybody's
for everybody always. I think that there's a time and
season sometimes for relationships.
Speaker 8 (37:11):
I think you're absolutely right, Christine, and I'd be happy
to share a.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Personal experience that I've had. Loved that way with.
Speaker 8 (37:18):
Relationships, and you know, should it, you.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Know, break or change the relationship.
Speaker 8 (37:24):
As I've come into polyamory, by the way, I view
relationships evolving differently than than ending and beginning, but just
changing based on the different boundaries that we put up
and everything that I actually during my E n M
journey I fell into I'll put it that way. I
fell into monogamy with a woman I met, and it was.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Really difficult and we didn't really talk about it.
Speaker 8 (37:46):
I was very open with her with who I was
in my past, and she had made some assumptions that
maybe I was choosing her to be monogamous with. And
that went on for a long time, Christine, And I'll
tell you what I remember, just to keep the story short.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
You know, for many, many months.
Speaker 8 (38:01):
I was in office with one of my therapists, the
other tools we have, one of my therapists, and I
was almost in tears and I felt so broken and
I said, Lord, I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
This is not me, this does not feel right.
Speaker 8 (38:15):
And it caused me to make a very difficult decision
to kind of put my foot down, to kind of
draw a line, articulate a boundary, but it really was
and say, I need to go do this.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I need to go be me if it if you I.
Speaker 8 (38:31):
Feel like And that's where it became so important to
me to be authentic because it felt so bad to
not be.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
And so I went off and I did my E
N M thing.
Speaker 8 (38:41):
And it was really really hard times for my partner
at the time, and we didn't know what was going
to happen with the relationship, and we ended up talking
about it, We ended up going to counseling together, We
ended up expressing our feelings to each other and wanting
to be together.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Now.
Speaker 8 (38:58):
The most important thing to me was I needed to
know with one hundred percent absolute surety that she wasn't
pursuing the relationship because of me. If she was interested
in pulling pursuing non monogamy. It was because she wanted it,
and that was a series of conversations between the two
of us and with a counselor, and I wanted to
(39:18):
make sure that she was doing it for herself. That
woman today is my primary partner.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
Oh wow, I wondered when you were talking, I had
a feeling. I thought, huh, I wonder if this is
going to turn into his primary partner.
Speaker 6 (39:33):
Now for me, highlight that it's another term that some
people might not know what that means. Yes, a little
bit about what so I'll let you share about that.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
So all relationships structures are different.
Speaker 8 (39:46):
There's all these labels out there and they mean different
things to different people. For the way I view my
partner Deanna as a primary partner, I call her my
primary partner or my core partner.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
She's someone who I kind of like do life with.
She's the dumb one that I do family activities with.
Speaker 8 (40:04):
My children know all of my partners, but they kind
of know her as someone at the core and someone
I'm doing life with. She's it doesn't mean that she's
my most important partner.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
We are, we do.
Speaker 8 (40:16):
I don't consider our relationship hierarchical, meaning she down.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
Because I was going to ask a question about that
earlier and I waited.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
It's a great point.
Speaker 6 (40:26):
It may when you have the term primary partner may
or may not be in a hierarchical structure.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
It may or may not.
Speaker 7 (40:34):
So so say a little.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
Bit about I hate to pull it apart, but be
really useful for people who are totally I have no
idea what you're talking about, So what does that mean hierarchical?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I think this is helpful for listeners to know for sure. Yeah,
hierarchical for me is there's no there's not an order
of importance.
Speaker 8 (40:50):
It's it's difficult to understand, I think and swallow because
I probably spend I spend much more time with my
primary partner than I do with my other partners. That's
just ours and our relationship dynamics and everything. One important
feature that I consider defining of our non hier co
relationship is veto veto power throwing another term simply.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
What that means is we we don't. We don't.
Speaker 8 (41:16):
There are no ultimatums. We don't agree to ultimatums in
our relationship. We make I make decisions of who I
want to see, and and Danna makes decisions about who
she wants to see. We're in a loving relationship and
our opinions matter to each other. And this has been
challenged before. Uh, but you know, ultimately we we there
is there is neither of us have the power to
(41:39):
veto another relationship.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
And I asked the question because this kind of fits
in with hierarchical relationships where you find you value your
primary partner's wishes even though they're not dictating what you
can and cannot do, but you value theirs over like
you have plans with another partner and they say, hey,
this came up. Is that something that's a different kind
(42:04):
of our hierarchical structure? Is that something for you and
your relationship?
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Do you have me that you asked the question different way?
Can you clarify a little bit.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
He's saying that if you have a say, plans with
your with one of your other people, and then your
your main squeeze uh says hey, maybe this came up
and we really need to do this. How do you
handle that?
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 8 (42:28):
Yeah, So it depends we handle it with a lot
of love and grace and compassion for each other because
things like that could happen. I don't know that I've
been faced with with that in a situation where it
became an issue. I think, you know, I don't see
my partners Stephanie and Megan. I love them very much,
(42:48):
They're wonderful people. I don't I don't for various reasons.
We don't get to see each other as often. They
have other partners as well, and they have other things
going on in their lives. So I think, you know,
you know, Diana's very very understanding of by wanting to
find time with them when we can and if something
really important or something critical came up.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
I think it's just goes back to the communication.
Speaker 8 (43:11):
I think it's just conversations we have, and I would
I would presume there have to be a real reason
behind that. It's it could be it could be tricky
where hypothetically one of the partners could create some kind
of situation because they really wanted to get the time
together and it really wasn't critical that we see each other.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
I haven't dealt with that as much, but I can
see that happening, or maybe I suppose good.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
So I have a quick question for Chris here, you're married,
and you've been married for how long?
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Going on?
Speaker 7 (43:46):
Nineteen years?
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Nineteen years?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
So my question to you is, I've always been curious,
how did you in your your wife start this journey.
Did you start it out in an open relationship or
did you get married and then say hey, I feel
like I have other needs that need to be met.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
I don't know. It was kind of funny.
Speaker 10 (44:05):
I was sitting over here around the corner listening and
my story is pretty close to Jody's. I think really
we started more on the swinging side of things, and
I'd say, you know, I met in college and we
had had close relationships with other friends and weren't we
(44:26):
didn't have the terminology or anything for it. We just
knew that we kind of liked doing things with friends
and together, and after graduating moved somewhere we're just it
was just us and no one else around, and we
kind of made a network of friends that were swingers
and kind of got into things that way. Moving back
(44:50):
to Colorado, I didn't find that network, and we sort
of just had a set of just conversations about what
we're looking for, and we ended up going to like
a poly need up to see what the culture was like,
and it was much more in alignment.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
With what we were kind of looking for at that time,
and I loved that.
Speaker 10 (45:09):
Just sort of through a I guess period of a
couple of years or so, kind of switched fully into
that side of things. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
Do you guys think that it becomes more of a
need of needing other things from other people that one
partner can't fulfill. Do you think that makes the partner
feel bad for not being able to fulfill that?
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I think it can. Yeah. Really, I'm glad you brought
that up again because it's kind of touched on before.
Speaker 8 (45:42):
And I think I think that we have been, uh,
you know, programmed by all these different ways to believe
that one person can and should fulfill all of our needs.
I don't believe that to be true. I don't think
what pressure, what tremendous pressure. Sure, yes, I think that
one person has to fulfill all of our needs. Now
(46:04):
does does that stir feelings or emotions in someone? When
I say, well, you know, I like to you know
this my partner over here, like we like like punk
music and we want to go to like punk concerts,
or we want to do this like kinky sexual thing
that maybe like you're not into very much.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Does that make them feel bad?
Speaker 1 (46:20):
You know it?
Speaker 8 (46:20):
Ken, it can certainly, you know, communication can can really
help that and solve that, and reassurances and that sort
of thing that absolutely comes up.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
What about for you guys?
Speaker 4 (46:31):
But yeah, does you come up for you guys?
Speaker 7 (46:34):
All of those comes up?
Speaker 4 (46:36):
Yeah, Well, I think it really even comes up in
monogamous relationships. I know for a fact that a lot
of women in this world and men you know, sit
in very unfulfilling marriages. They love their spouses tremendously, they
love their children, they love their home life. But something
(46:56):
is missing, something is lacking. And it's not so much
that the partner is doing something wrong or bad, it's
just that it does the needs aren't quite met. And
I think I've experienced that in almost every relationship I've
been in, unfortunately, and.
Speaker 7 (47:13):
This this is one way.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (47:16):
Well, as a single person dating, let's just talk about
a single person dating for a second. Most dating coaches,
all dating coaches have all said on my show, date
multiple fucking people until you find your person. And I
find that dating multiple people is my person sometimes, you
(47:39):
know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (47:44):
I think that so.
Speaker 5 (47:46):
What Christine, the relationship structured Christine wants is she having
multiple men.
Speaker 7 (47:55):
And that and not the other way around.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
We know we all know this story, but I do
have to say that I've been sitting inside of this
feeling for a while thinking about this episode because you
and I talked weeks and weeks ago. I talked to
Janice about her relationship all the time, what they go through,
because it really enlightens me in my own relationships.
Speaker 7 (48:18):
Thank you, guys.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
But also the thing about it is is that I'm
almost out of time is that I find that I
can't I'm not feeling as if I care whether my
partner has another partner. Sometimes not always, but sometimes I've
really sat within that and realized maybe I might be
able to do this.
Speaker 6 (48:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
It's something I would have to try, and if it works,
it works, and if it doesn't, it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
It's great.
Speaker 8 (48:45):
I think there's a good learning moment here for your listeners,
who I think many, if not most of them, have
traditional relationships. You know, the idea, this idea that that
one person doesn't have to fill all our needs. That's
true in monogamy and traditional relationships. As well well, and
that's why it's so important for us to have other relationships.
They don't need to be romantic relationships for sexual relationships.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 8 (49:07):
I think having a relationships outside of the of the
sentual relationships.
Speaker 7 (49:12):
Non sexual, have a platonic partner, Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 8 (49:17):
I think it's really important and I think gets tricky
depending on if there's like you know, if a man
wants to have a friend who's a woman, that's something
that that couple is gonna have to figure out.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
And it's a great way to dive into heart.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
It shouldn't, Jenni said, it shouldn't be at heart and true, true, true, true.
I really hate to say this, but our freaking time
is up. And I've absolutely loved this episode. This episode
has been a freaking fun joy, and I think that
is very informational. If anybody needs to ask more questions
(49:50):
or has more questions, please reach out. There's Jody and
there's Janie who both can answer your questions and can
guide you along the way and we'll go from there.
Next week is just Steve and I. We're gonna be together.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
Yeah no, no, but you know we're next week.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
You're right, same time, same place next week. Say hang
on for a second Jody, same time, same place, next week,
and until then, let's just keep this shit real.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends,
like and follow us on Instagram at fifty.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
Shades of Underscore Bullshit and Facebook at fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Thanks so much for listening, and we really hope to
see you again next week
The following show contains adult content. It's not our intent
to offend anyone, but we want to inform you that
if you are a child under the age of eighteen
or get offended easily, this next show may not be
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(00:23):
to those show hosts. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey everyone, and welcome to Fifty Shades of Bullshit. I'm
your host, Christine Lalan and this is the podcast where
we uncover the truth about online dating.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Now let's begin.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Where are we?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Hi, everyone, this is crazy.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Here we are. I'm Janie and I'm Steve.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
This is fifty Shades motherfucking Bullshit.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
So hi everyone, Yep, surprise, Christian and I are in
the same spot.
Speaker 6 (01:06):
Imagine that. I know.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
I traveled to Denver last night, and I'm heading up
to Wyoming tonight to see my family and stay in
the TV. I'm staying in a TP on the planes
to honor my mom. It was her birthday yesterday and
I was trying to get in a day earlier, so
I could do it honor birthday. But whatever, she doesn't
care dates a date, whatever number is a number. So
(01:30):
I'm heading up to see family for a couple of
days and then I'll be back to LA.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
But also she's coming back here first to hang out
with me, So that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
How's your week, Ben Steve?
Speaker 6 (01:42):
My week has been good, pretty eventful, busy, busy. I
went to a manufacturer's conference in Burbank for adult toys.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I hate.
Speaker 6 (01:56):
Every kind of every kind and shape a vibrator you
can imagine.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
So who do you know that invited you to that?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Uh?
Speaker 6 (02:04):
One of the manufacturers, one of the biggest manufacturers that
actually creates the show every year. Doc Johnson is one
of the most famous sex toy manufacturers, and I have
a friend who works for them.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
I've been looking for a place to broadcast from to
do an episode from.
Speaker 7 (02:19):
Oh my God. That's such a good idea. I want
to do it for sex and the solo girl too.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, body up somehow. Yeah, So there's one that said
that I'm welcome there anytime already, and so I'd love
to do a warehouse and just go, you know, mobile
on the episode and just kind of you know, a
different produced one. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
I want to do that too. Oh plus one.
Speaker 6 (02:42):
Next year you could probably even do giveaways and all
kinds of stuff that would.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Be a blast.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Let's do it.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Aria is actually a new sponsor for Sex and the
Solo Girl. Oh nice, yep, I'm getting my first box sent.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah. Do they have a variety of different.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
Yeah, they have a couple. They have like a concierge
service where you go and you actually talk one on
one with somebody to tell them kind of what type
of experience you're trying to curate, and then they put
a package together.
Speaker 7 (03:11):
For you and send it.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Nice.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
I love that.
Speaker 7 (03:14):
Yeah. So I'm getting to impact a package cent first.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Oh yeah, yeah, awesome.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
I love that. Well, we have a really great episode
for you guys today. We are talking about more than
one polyamory and I'm really excited about it because I
did it before. We had an episode in the very
beginning of the of the series pot of this podcast.
I'm so jet lagged for today. I am like, looked,
(03:43):
something kicked.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
My ass today.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
I don't know what it is, but we have had
this topic on before. I had a really beautiful lesbian
woman on who talked about in the lesbian community of
the polyamory. And so today we're doing in the straight world.
Speaker 7 (04:03):
So I'm straight is straightish.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I could not find Jody's freaking bio. So we're just
gonna bring Jody on and we're.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
Just gonna time.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
I So I'm the connection here.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
I know Jody from the local Denver Polly or a
non monogamous community, so I will say that that's how
we came to know him.
Speaker 7 (04:24):
I suggested him as a guest.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yep, yep, so Rebel, you can bring on Jody. Hey, Jody,
welcome to fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
How's it going awesome? I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Oh, we are excited to have you. So yeah, Janis
was just saying that she knows you through her poly
world connection, and I, you know, talk to you, and
we had a chance to really talk before the show
a couple of weeks ago. I really enjoy you. So
tell us a little, tell the world a little about you.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
And yeah, so I'm Jody, I'm polyamorous. Yeah, here we are.
Speaker 8 (05:03):
It's actually it is actually well timed because it's actually
non monogamous. It was just non monogamous Week of Visibility
and non Monogamous Day of Visibility I.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Think was about two days ago. Just a lot of
exciting things.
Speaker 8 (05:16):
And I think it's so well timed in the world
and the grand scheme of things, because there is kind
of this renaissance and this movement happening of more of
us being feeling more comfortable being open about our relationship structures,
of our lifestyles.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
So I'm polyamorous. I'm really proud of that.
Speaker 8 (05:33):
I'm in the Denver area also, just right down the
highway from you guys. I think right now I have
three partners.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I am a coach.
Speaker 8 (05:42):
I coach life, business, and personal, and I coach and
work with people who are ethically non monogamous and who
also are involved in traditional relationships too. It's something that
I am supportive of whatever route people like to take,
but it's important to me for people to know what
the options are and I I'm really glad to be here.
(06:05):
I have my personal vision is to help people discover, explore,
and express their authenticity and their sexuality and to provide
safe spaces for them to do that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
So I think we've created a safe space.
Speaker 8 (06:17):
Here for your listeners, and I'm really excited for them
to be able to discover and maybe explore what's out there.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
So, Janice, you are also in the poly world. I'll
start We'll start with Janis for a second. How did
you get involved in How did you know that this
was the right thing for you?
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Okay, good question, thank you. So I actually did not
know it was the right thing for me. I lived
in Australia for many years, and when I was over there,
I had the opportunity to pretty much for the first time,
run into non monogamous person after non monogamous person, maybe
the circles I was in very experimental, lots of spiritual seekers,
(06:59):
and I would yet asked out by a lot of
polyamorous men so much so it like became this thing
in my life.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
But I would always say no.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
I'm the oldest of seven children, and so I always
thought that because I did not get enough attention growing up,
I was always attention start always wanted more, that I
wouldn't be able to be very good at being polyamorous
because I'm going to always want more attention.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And ask my.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Current partner, who's going to come over here in a
minute and say hi. Still to this day, I definitely
yeah like that. But like I said, it kept on
coming up over and over. I had many conversations with
the poly men harassing me out, and I remember telling
one of them this this thing about being feeling always
attention hungry, and he did say to me, you know what,
(07:49):
You're probably you're right, it might not be for you.
Then I was at a music festival, a Shout Out
Rainbow Serpent festival in Victoria, and I have had a
fling with this amazing sexy man while we were there,
who was Polly. Turns out that whilst we were having
the fling, he had one of his poly male friends
(08:12):
come and stay at the camp with us, who then
I had a fling with as well.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Okay, and they were like kind.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Of sharing, sharing me, and my mind was just blown
because they were both so respectful, so caring, They were
on such good terms with each other, and they would
sit there say very complimentary, respectful things about me. It
ended up being this beautiful experience, so much so that
one of them approached me at the end of the
(08:39):
festival saying, do you feel like you've changed your mind
about being polyamorous, and I said, again, I don't know,
because you know, my parents never gave me enough attention
and I never really felt that loved. And he said, well,
let me just ask you something. Do you ever feel
have you ever felt like you had more love and
attention as you did this weekend between the two of them.
(09:03):
And I was like, sold, like, you're so right, and
I just like yeah, I.
Speaker 7 (09:12):
Just and so I just kind of like got into it.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
And in fact, I stayed seeing one of them for
quite a long time.
Speaker 7 (09:19):
He had I think four other partners, and I got
to know all of them really well.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
We would all hang out sometimes some sexy stuff, but
mostly everybody just kind of.
Speaker 7 (09:29):
Hang in we you know. I remember one time he
took me in one of the other.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Women to the movies, and you know, he's like all
holding hands and it was a great way.
Speaker 7 (09:39):
To begin the lifestyle.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
Like, really, I feel so lucky that that is how
I got into it.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
What about you, Jody, how did you originally get into it?
How did you know it was for you? What was
that process?
Speaker 8 (09:53):
Oh my gosh. First of all, what a beautiful story, Jannis.
Thank you so much for sharing that and that's one
of my favorite things. We have such a beautiful community year.
And since I've been in in the lifestyle, which is
a term where he's really broadly now, I've loved hearing
people's stories. And my story is this over I was
married for twenty years. I was monogamous with my former spouse.
(10:16):
We decided to explore swinging is what we knew it
as when we were married, toward the end of our marriage,
and so we started exploring ethical non monogamy as swingers,
and we, you know, I think this is a common
track for a lot of people. We we started swinging,
(10:37):
which it means, I don't know what the listeners know.
You know, swing is usually where you swap with other
couples in kind of a sexual environment, and so we
experimented with that.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
We thought, well, that was really fun, Like that was
really exciting.
Speaker 8 (10:51):
That was really an adventurous We'd only been with each
other for almost twenty years, and we thought that was
really cool, and we did that a couple of times,
like it was cool, but it's you know, it's kind
of we thought it might be more fulfilling if we
had some kind of connection with these people we knew
them you know, we people seem like strangers.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So for me, I kind of and I think my former.
Speaker 8 (11:10):
Spouse as well, kind of evolved and discovered this demi
sexual side of us where where we really wanted to
or required some kind of emotional connection or depth to
the connection to be able.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
To perform for each other sexually.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
So and then from demi sexuality we my former wife
and I completed our marriage soon after we started exploring
the lifestyle. We grew in different directions, and for me,
I evolved into polyamory.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Where I felt so full of love. And you know, guys, this.
Speaker 8 (11:40):
Is really interesting actually because something I've said throughout my
life to people and my coaching business and everything, and
it's you know, I don't feel like that we necessarily
change as humans, so to speak. I say, and I
know this is debatable, but rather we change back to
who we truly are at our core throughout moments in
our life. And for me, I thought back my life
and I thought, this is how I've been, you know,
(12:02):
this is how if someone came to explain it as
being a love slut. But I was always this hopeless,
romantic kind of guy as a young man, and I
always felt so full of love, and it was something
that I really grappled with, kind of exploring polyamory and
is it right. And I came from a large traditional
(12:23):
family as well, Jani's seven, four brothers and two sisters.
I was in the middle, so I've got middle kid syndrome.
But you know, for it just felt right. It felt
so good, and it felt natural, and it felt like me.
And when I once I had had some exposure to it,
and then I began to withdraw from that little bit
(12:44):
and take away, it didn't feel good.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
It didn't feel right, and it didn't feel like I
was being authentic.
Speaker 8 (12:49):
So I've been on this journey of authenticity for several
years now and here I am a polyamorous person full
of love. And I think the great analogy is, you know,
people under how how the how the love is I have?
If if our hearts are our whole one hundred percent,
then you know do you do? Do I have a
third of my love? You know, third of my love
for reach my partners, and I don't I have one
(13:11):
hundred percent love reach my partners. And for those listeners
who have children, that's that's the analogy. You you love
all you of your children equally. I love all of
my partners in the same way. That's a little bit
about my journey.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I'm wondering how do you navigate jealousy and polyamory because
coming from uh, someone who's in you know, the monogamous world,
you know, jealousy is a massive part of it. I
don't think it's healthy. Let's start with that. And I
think it's ridiculous. I only felt like massive, crazy, crazy,
(13:49):
uh jealousy because my ex husband used to do ship
in front of me to get me going on purpose
the things he knew that was my my her pain
spots and he would dig it, those motherfuckers, And so
jealousy was boligile for me. It was horrible and I
don't I don't really feel those kind of feelings anymore
(14:12):
because that thing is gone out of my life. That
thing so thing one, two and three are gone. So
how do you navigate it though? In this world?
Speaker 8 (14:25):
And I'm sure it's interesting and what a horrible feeling
jealousy is.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And I have felt it before, and I agree that
it's not healthy. It's not healthy for us. I will
also add to that it is also normal.
Speaker 8 (14:40):
It happens, and I love how you framed the question
how do you navigate it?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
You didn't ask how do you not have it? Or
how do you combat it?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Because it's a normal thing to feel, and we feel
it too.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
That's one of the misconceptions that some people have is
that we are able to do it because we don't
experience jealousy in the same way.
Speaker 7 (14:58):
We navigate it differently. A lot of us do it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, And let's start real quick with what is jealousy.
Speaker 8 (15:03):
Well, jealousy is this feeling or idea or sense that
we're going to lose something to someone else, or lose
something someone or something to someone else.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
And this is actually well timed.
Speaker 8 (15:16):
I was leading some workshops at a big dn M
convention last weekend and one of the workshops was called
Feeling Good when We Shouldn't, a compersion workshop for real
life M and compersion has been described by some as
the opposite of jealousy. And I've so you asked, how
(15:36):
do I navigate it? You know, one of the things
I've done is I've trained myself. I've taught myself I
practice bringing more compersion into my life.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
And what compersion is.
Speaker 8 (15:46):
Is filling joy or pleasure for other people's pleasure. I
love seeing my partners succeed. I love supporting them in
the pursuit of their goals.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I love watching them.
Speaker 8 (16:01):
Have pleasure in any way, whether it has anything to
do with me or not.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
That for me, that's my love for them.
Speaker 8 (16:08):
So just being able to feel those feelings for them
and to feel really secure in our relationship and our
feelings for each other. When two people are securely attached
and feel that way, then I'm not saying we won't
have jealousy, but maybe it's maybe it's minimized, and maybe
it maybe we can put it in a place where
(16:29):
we can navigate it and work through it, honor it,
name it, and you know, try and try to understand
where it's coming from. You know, jealous feelings of jealousy
author often come from a place of needs or comparison
or something.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Right, Jennis, Yeah, fear.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
A lot of it and along those lines as far
as navigating it with each other. We are often known
to be a very communicative people, which is good, and
it is a lot of it about talking with your
partner when it comes up and have being conversations about
(17:05):
it and being honest. I'm feeling this way I need to,
you know, let's see what we can do to cope
with it together.
Speaker 7 (17:12):
Facing it head on. It does wonders for jealousy.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
Things that I come up with when I work with
couples a lot is the distinction between jealousy and envy.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
And you touched on this and jealousy.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
We as we talk about it more, see that it's
based in scarcity, like if you have something that I want,
I can't have it or it's not available to me,
whereas envy means that you can have it and I
could have it too, and I don't feel threatened by
you having whatever it is, whether it's another person, being
related to and connected to another person, or as some
(17:47):
kind of object or accomplishment. So I think a lot
of times when I'm working with couples, it's a matter
of developing the distinction of envy, kind of moving from
jealousy to envy, because we grow up thinking that, you know,
if I if I share my candy bar with you
and I give it to you, I have less now.
(18:07):
So we kind of learn that, you know, if I
give something away or if something's then less of it
is available to me. So so I think envy is
a more mature space.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
To come to also, where as far as jealousy goes
and how we're raised, like with the candy bar, we
grow up with depictions of jealousy all around us that
are romanticized and made. I mean, we're raised to think
that this is somehow romantic or just a healthy way
that you respond to somebody triggering you. And that's also
(18:40):
I think a big part of the problem when it
comes to jealousy control possessiveness and relationships.
Speaker 9 (18:46):
And looks like jealousy is depicted sometimes as love and
I don't if he's if he or she is jealous
or me, they love.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Me, they're just so passionate about me. Yeah. I always
had this feeling that when there's this big like drama fighting,
you know, just like all this turmoil and people called
it passion I was thinking, what the what the why?
Why is this such? Why are we talking about this
(19:18):
in a in a way that that romanticizes it and
doesn't you know, really talk about how unhealthy it is.
I need to get to the comments.
Speaker 7 (19:28):
How do I get Oh, okay, no, it's right here.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Okay, So Missy said the different what's the difference between
polyamory and polygamy, Well do either one of you, but
I you know, most of us here, Janice myself, I
don't know about you. Jody definitely. I don't think Steve.
We were Mormon at some point. J yeah, Jody, Jody.
(19:52):
That's four here have been Mormon, mine for a shorter period, converted,
then left, you know, within five six years. But you know,
polygamy is where you're having a marriage with one person
and non legal marriages with other commitments, verbal commitments, which
(20:17):
I think is great. I don't see a problem with it.
The thing is is that polygamy and polyamory is the
polygamists are using it as a marriage tool. For every
single one of them. They're emphasizing and they all pretty
much live in the same place and they yeah, sometimes
they don't, but.
Speaker 7 (20:36):
Most of the ways to do these things.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
What's your thoughts on the difference between those.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
That's that's really interesting and that's a great question.
Speaker 8 (20:45):
And I believe that is the big distinction that polygamy
is involves the institution of marriage, which is legal in
the United States. Polyamory, let's break down the word a
little bit, poly and amory. If you look at the
roots of those words, amory. Are you know Polly is many, right,
and amory is amorous? Is love to love so many loves?
(21:06):
I think, simply put in my heart, that's what in
my mind, That's what polyamory is, is to have many loves.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
That's how I distinguish.
Speaker 8 (21:14):
I don't know that much about polygamy other than our
collective upbringing here, and.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
That's why we all laugh too.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
And Missy, why are you asking that? Is I have
something to do with Mormons and pop culture? Yeah, I'm
curious about about that. And some people tease me sometimes
Jody that maybe one reason I am naturally Polly or
how I do well with it might be because of
my family heritage, because I came directly from Riamy.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Well, Mickey's question is very similar to what I was
about to ask, is how are you navigating or integrating
into family and friends without a big you know, separation
or critique or judgment. How do how do you guys
handle that kind of thing?
Speaker 7 (22:03):
I mean, I let you go.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
Jody is really really good at this, But I want
to say, especially because it is no monogamous, A week
of visibility and day of visibility and we are getting
a lot of traction in the media these days. Please
everyone listening, just be as open and out as you
possibly can about your lifestyle, because you make it safer
(22:25):
for all of us to do it.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
And I have.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
I just put everything online because partially because of growing
up Mormon, because I'd hide so.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
Much about myself for so long.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
But I'm just as open as I can be about it,
so that's not even a question.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
It doesn't come up much, and that's just it too.
It's a matter of pride.
Speaker 8 (22:43):
And I mentioned yesterday, I do feel like we're in
this movement or this renaissance, and I actually call it
the great coming Out. And I am so grateful to
the people who came before us in the LGBT key
lgb Q T plus community, who taught us all how
to be brave, how to be courageous, how to come
(23:05):
out of the closet. And I think we're coming into
this time where we've discovered there's people who are living
all types of alternative lifestyles, just like the gay community was.
And and what a great example they've been of pride
and how to be proud and how to come back
Right now, just because of that, it's still really difficult
(23:25):
and everyone's at their own place with that, in their
own situations with.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Their families and everything. For me, I've you know, tested
the waters.
Speaker 8 (23:32):
I've chosen to be very open and very proud of
it because I am, because I because I simply end
I understand it for what it is. I have was
riddled with shame and guilt growing up from religious organized religion,
and I don't want to feel that way anymore. I
don't want my kids to feel that way anymore, and
(23:53):
so I've actually chosen. Very recently, we did this great
segment with gend Garrity. She's out of Denver as well.
I know, No Jen, Hi Jen, if you're listening for
Week of Visibility where she had these video segments where
she talked to parents about how they talk to their
children about these things.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
And I was a guest on there.
Speaker 8 (24:10):
And I shared this with her as well, where I've
had age appropriate conversations with my teenage children. And the
most important thing to me for my children to know
is that they know my primary partner or my core partner.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
They kind of know her or knew her before they
knew my.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
Other partners, and they were very protective of her once
they started seeing and hearing that, you know, Dad might
have other partners in his life. They wanted to make
sure that she knew about it and what they were
used to. And I told my children and I said,
I'm very proud.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Of these people. They're meaningful people in my lives.
Speaker 8 (24:43):
I said, I don't want you to think that I'm
cheating on DMA, my primate partner.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I am not.
Speaker 8 (24:48):
These women are not conkybines, they're not affairs, they're not mistresses.
They are women who I love and care deeply about,
and they're important parts.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Of my life.
Speaker 8 (24:56):
So it was really a really great opportunity to have
earning moments with my children and to teach them that
there's other alternatives out there to the way that we've
been traditionally raised and traditionally programmed.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Anaesthesia actually has a really good question. She says, have
you ever had to counsel someone who told a partners
they wanted to be a swinger? Have you had that
kind of dealings like helping people understand how to how
to handle.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
That all the time?
Speaker 7 (25:24):
Yeah, I have, you go first.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
It comes in all different flavors and all different types.
Speaker 8 (25:29):
I mean, sometimes it's it's a couple where one person
is interested in it and one person is hesitant or
vice versa, or they're both interested, they don't know how
to approach it.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
They're dealing with all kinds of emotions.
Speaker 8 (25:40):
So I think, you know, that's how I that's that's
where I really started leaning into this side of my coaching,
was people reaching out to me and asking me, how
do we navigate this?
Speaker 3 (25:50):
How do we deal with this? I want to do this.
You know, he's he's.
Speaker 8 (25:53):
You know, he's not interested, or he's scared, or he's jealous.
So I think it happens all the time. And for me,
I don't promote any type of relationship structure or lifestyle
as being the.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
True one, the right one, because because.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
There's so many different ways that people can that things
work for each other. It's you know, I have to
say that on.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
Sex and the Soul Girl all the time, Like monogamy
is valid as well.
Speaker 6 (26:19):
Just right.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
No, so we're not saying it's not right, but.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
It changes the face of the relationship possibly forever. And
so what I'll say is I've had more friends come
to me probably about those than clients. And what I'll
say is you have to be equally enthusiastic about doing
it is the first right just to start for me.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
The thing is that you know it brings up things
because you know, I'm going home and I'm from a
very small town in Wyoming called chug Water, and it's
literally under just under two hundred people, and most of
the people in town are either related to me or
somebody I would never date. So I didn't have boyfriends
(27:05):
in my hometown in high school.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
I participated in a lot of activities music, arts, sports,
everything everything, and when I would travel to other towns
that we were in our county or whatever that we
would compete against, I would have a boyfriend in each
town because I would only see them a couple of
(27:31):
times a year. They would come to my hometown for
a sport event, I would go to their hometown for
a sporting event. Then that was basketball, then it was volleyball,
then it was cheerleading, then it was track, then it
was music. So I had boyfriends in different towns and
I didn't even really think about it, but for me,
I needed that because, like you, Jenis, I never really had,
(27:51):
you know, any kind of someone teaching me or showing
me what love felt like. And I really longed for it.
And I also realize that when I had boyfriends in
all different towns, I got something different from all of
them that created a whole for me, like a whole unit.
Like not anybody ever really fulfilled one thing for me.
(28:15):
So I don't know, does that mean I want to
be pallaired.
Speaker 7 (28:21):
Some of it? Like that's kind of how I feel now.
Speaker 5 (28:24):
So I have a partner who's going to come over
and say, Hi, Chris.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
He's like me, now, where Janis is partner?
Speaker 7 (28:37):
My partner?
Speaker 8 (28:38):
Chris?
Speaker 4 (28:41):
He's like, yeah, I have more than one girlfriend.
Speaker 7 (28:45):
He manages.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Yeah, now, Chris, you have a wife and Janice and
another girlfriend. Right, Okay, I'm sure there's been instances where
you've had to really juggle some ship dowing the three.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Oh, I know, I do.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
That's why I I'm being very diplomatic about it. How
is it been a challenge for you? Is it make
it worth it for you when it finally is starting
to iron out? What's the deal?
Speaker 10 (29:10):
I mean, it can be a challenge at times, like
you're managing everyone's expectations right, needs and wants and boundaries
and all of that. So I guess that when I
started with kind of exploring into polyamory. I heard really
good advice from someone and it was that love is infinite,
(29:30):
but time is not. So it's uh, I mean spending
a lot of time planning and a lot of time
and investment into making your relationships important and grow. And yeah,
time is a big component of that.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
I love that I got the jackpa.
Speaker 7 (29:53):
But what I was going to say just around like
getting your needs met.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
So Chris has three partners, but he's my only and
heard it that is, he fulfills lots of my needs.
But also I have lots of friends who fulfill a
lot of my other emotional needs, and that is one
reason I don't tend to be as many as my friends.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah, fill that gap.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
What about you, Steve, have you ever considered a been
part or or are you? I don't even know if
you're monogamous.
Speaker 11 (30:23):
You don't know much about me, Like I mean, I
like being a mystery, so I want to I'm glad
to ask because I want to point to something I
think everybody goes through while they're really confronting this is
you actually have to be curious.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
I think that.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
While people are sorting it out for themselves, you have
to be clumsy, you have to be curious, you have
to be willing to step into the unknown. And there
was a time that I was really fascinated by this
and myself and I'm monogamous by choice, but I went
through a lot of curiosity and part of what I
see and kind of you hinted at this channel is
(30:59):
I have a very rich life with friends. I also
have a very rich professional life. I take care of
a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
I'm managing a.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
Lot of people's emotions. So when I'm doing mostly counseling
on Zoom in person, and so when I come home,
it's not that's not what I desire.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
I really got to that by by mindfully thinking it
through and experimenting songs like what really works for me.
So I really honor and I actually coach a lot
of people who are in different, you know, styles of
relationships because I know what it takes. It takes an
incredible level of communication and mindfulness and consciousness about how
you're going to be related to each person. Can we
(31:45):
touched a couple sub distinctions or definitions that a lot
of people might not know, So you said, E and
M so, and I think the E is so important
we can't we can't say it enough ethical, non monogaby ethical.
So what that says is that you're in communication about
(32:06):
all aspects of your relationship, who you're seeing, how often
you're seeing it. So we can't talk about polyamory and
non monogamy without boundaries, without talking about boundaries and how
are we co creating this relationship. So I'm like to
the group to talk about it because I'm sure that
at the heart of having your relationships here I ploral
(32:29):
work is that each of everybody's got to be in alignment.
And I also just want to highlight somebody put in
the chat. Do you feel it should be a relationship
breaker if you can't see this being a part of
your lifestyle. And I think that's something you can kind
of tie that together with what I just mentioned, is like,
how do you negotiate boundaries if if everybody's not quite
on the same page. So I'll give that to you off.
(32:50):
That's something that I coach people with a lot when
they're struggling with it. So go ahead and I'll be
quiet now.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
No, no, I love it. So a piggybacking on what
you said, Steve A. Communication is key for any relationship husband, wife, spouse.
I just said all the same things in three different worlds.
I'm meant to say, children, work.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
And relationships.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
And I don't know why just those three now, But
when we're communicating, you know, I'm curious what communications skills
are essential for a HOY relationship that might be overlooked
in a non you know, like a monogamous.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
I think actually the jealousy component for yeah, for sure.
Or I'm feeling I'm feeling this this way. I mean,
like we have been going through things on like agreements
as far as like when we're parts and things that
come up with me when we are and it's just
about voicing, like just so you know, I'm feeling really
challenged by this, Like no matter what it.
Speaker 8 (33:53):
Is, I think, you know, from a communication aspect, I've
I've heard that all the time.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I know someone's kind of joked one time.
Speaker 8 (34:01):
You almost have to have a doctorate in communication successful
poly relationship and I think it's and as you said, Christine,
it's important in all types of relationships.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
The communication in poly relationships.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
That are successful tend to be more very frequent and
a level of openness and awareness that I maybe haven't
observed in as many monogamous relationships can become comfortable. There's
obviously not as many challenges to the relationship or or
I'm searching for the right words.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
I you know, these these these obstacles and.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
These challenges that we deal with in polyamorous relationships are
sometimes different, I think than monogamous relationships. I think that
any and any type of relationship you can learn a
lot from people who are taking this Polly journey.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
And you know, and and and and.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
Understanding, you know, being being hyper aware or much more
aware of of your of your of your partner feelings,
of what they might be thinking. And I I just, uh,
it's it's it's it's it's critical. And I think polyamer's
relationships I think Steve had mentioned in Coordinating Times and
(35:14):
and uh being you know, that's what being ethical is,
I think, is being really open about it. And that's
such an important part. And I'm glad you pointed that out, Steve,
the E and the E and m I say that
all the time. It's that's the most important part.
Speaker 7 (35:29):
You want to say that.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
I do want to say something along the lines of
what Anesesia was asking, though she was saying, you know,
should it be a deal breaker if you're I.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
You know what.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Everybody to each his own and if it doesn't work
for you personally, I say that that's the universe telling
you that that's not your person. It is okay to
have boundaries, you know, and it's okay to feel like
you know this isn't for me, and you move you
move on. I don't think that if a partner asks
(36:05):
you if you can do this and it's not for you,
that that partner should stay just because of you, because
I think that relationship will deteriorate very quickly, so you
have to be very aware of that. And if you
can communicate together and maybe do therapy, maybe do marriage counseling,
(36:26):
maybe you can. Maybe it was just like this random
thought your your spouse had, But you know, personally, I don't.
I don't think that everybody's meant for everybody. And I
don't also, for the first time in my life, think
that that one person is meant for you for your
entire life. I really don't. I think that we all
change so much and throughout our lives. We're different as teenagers,
(36:50):
we're worldly different in our twenties from when we are
at any point in our lives. We grow a little
more in our thirties, our forties, our fifties, or you know.
And I just I don't think that two people can
grow in the same direction together. I don't think everybody's
for everybody always. I think that there's a time and
season sometimes for relationships.
Speaker 8 (37:11):
I think you're absolutely right, Christine, and I'd be happy
to share a.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Personal experience that I've had. Loved that way with.
Speaker 8 (37:18):
Relationships, and you know, should it, you.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Know, break or change the relationship.
Speaker 8 (37:24):
As I've come into polyamory, by the way, I view
relationships evolving differently than than ending and beginning, but just
changing based on the different boundaries that we put up
and everything that I actually during my E n M
journey I fell into I'll put it that way. I
fell into monogamy with a woman I met, and it was.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Really difficult and we didn't really talk about it.
Speaker 8 (37:46):
I was very open with her with who I was
in my past, and she had made some assumptions that
maybe I was choosing her to be monogamous with. And
that went on for a long time, Christine, And I'll
tell you what I remember, just to keep the story short.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
You know, for many, many months.
Speaker 8 (38:01):
I was in office with one of my therapists, the
other tools we have, one of my therapists, and I
was almost in tears and I felt so broken and
I said, Lord, I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
This is not me, this does not feel right.
Speaker 8 (38:15):
And it caused me to make a very difficult decision
to kind of put my foot down, to kind of
draw a line, articulate a boundary, but it really was
and say, I need to go do this.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I need to go be me if it if you I.
Speaker 8 (38:31):
Feel like And that's where it became so important to
me to be authentic because it felt so bad to
not be.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
And so I went off and I did my E
N M thing.
Speaker 8 (38:41):
And it was really really hard times for my partner
at the time, and we didn't know what was going
to happen with the relationship, and we ended up talking
about it, We ended up going to counseling together, We
ended up expressing our feelings to each other and wanting
to be together.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Now.
Speaker 8 (38:58):
The most important thing to me was I needed to
know with one hundred percent absolute surety that she wasn't
pursuing the relationship because of me. If she was interested
in pulling pursuing non monogamy. It was because she wanted it,
and that was a series of conversations between the two
of us and with a counselor, and I wanted to
(39:18):
make sure that she was doing it for herself. That
woman today is my primary partner.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
Oh wow, I wondered when you were talking, I had
a feeling. I thought, huh, I wonder if this is
going to turn into his primary partner.
Speaker 6 (39:33):
Now for me, highlight that it's another term that some
people might not know what that means. Yes, a little
bit about what so I'll let you share about that.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
So all relationships structures are different.
Speaker 8 (39:46):
There's all these labels out there and they mean different
things to different people. For the way I view my
partner Deanna as a primary partner, I call her my
primary partner or my core partner.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
She's someone who I kind of like do life with.
She's the dumb one that I do family activities with.
Speaker 8 (40:04):
My children know all of my partners, but they kind
of know her as someone at the core and someone
I'm doing life with. She's it doesn't mean that she's
my most important partner.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
We are, we do.
Speaker 8 (40:16):
I don't consider our relationship hierarchical, meaning she down.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
Because I was going to ask a question about that
earlier and I waited.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
It's a great point.
Speaker 6 (40:26):
It may when you have the term primary partner may
or may not be in a hierarchical structure.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
It may or may not.
Speaker 7 (40:34):
So so say a little.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
Bit about I hate to pull it apart, but be
really useful for people who are totally I have no
idea what you're talking about, So what does that mean hierarchical?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I think this is helpful for listeners to know for sure. Yeah,
hierarchical for me is there's no there's not an order
of importance.
Speaker 8 (40:50):
It's it's difficult to understand, I think and swallow because
I probably spend I spend much more time with my
primary partner than I do with my other partners. That's
just ours and our relationship dynamics and everything. One important
feature that I consider defining of our non hier co
relationship is veto veto power throwing another term simply.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
What that means is we we don't. We don't.
Speaker 8 (41:16):
There are no ultimatums. We don't agree to ultimatums in
our relationship. We make I make decisions of who I
want to see, and and Danna makes decisions about who
she wants to see. We're in a loving relationship and
our opinions matter to each other. And this has been
challenged before. Uh, but you know, ultimately we we there
is there is neither of us have the power to
(41:39):
veto another relationship.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
And I asked the question because this kind of fits
in with hierarchical relationships where you find you value your
primary partner's wishes even though they're not dictating what you
can and cannot do, but you value theirs over like
you have plans with another partner and they say, hey,
this came up. Is that something that's a different kind
(42:04):
of our hierarchical structure? Is that something for you and
your relationship?
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Do you have me that you asked the question different way?
Can you clarify a little bit.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
He's saying that if you have a say, plans with
your with one of your other people, and then your
your main squeeze uh says hey, maybe this came up
and we really need to do this. How do you
handle that?
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 8 (42:28):
Yeah, So it depends we handle it with a lot
of love and grace and compassion for each other because
things like that could happen. I don't know that I've
been faced with with that in a situation where it
became an issue. I think, you know, I don't see
my partners Stephanie and Megan. I love them very much,
(42:48):
They're wonderful people. I don't I don't for various reasons.
We don't get to see each other as often. They
have other partners as well, and they have other things
going on in their lives. So I think, you know,
you know, Diana's very very understanding of by wanting to
find time with them when we can and if something
really important or something critical came up.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
I think it's just goes back to the communication.
Speaker 8 (43:11):
I think it's just conversations we have, and I would
I would presume there have to be a real reason
behind that. It's it could be it could be tricky
where hypothetically one of the partners could create some kind
of situation because they really wanted to get the time
together and it really wasn't critical that we see each other.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
I haven't dealt with that as much, but I can
see that happening, or maybe I suppose good.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
So I have a quick question for Chris here, you're married,
and you've been married for how long?
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Going on?
Speaker 7 (43:46):
Nineteen years?
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Nineteen years?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
So my question to you is, I've always been curious,
how did you in your your wife start this journey.
Did you start it out in an open relationship or
did you get married and then say hey, I feel
like I have other needs that need to be met.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
I don't know. It was kind of funny.
Speaker 10 (44:05):
I was sitting over here around the corner listening and
my story is pretty close to Jody's. I think really
we started more on the swinging side of things, and
I'd say, you know, I met in college and we
had had close relationships with other friends and weren't we
(44:26):
didn't have the terminology or anything for it. We just
knew that we kind of liked doing things with friends
and together, and after graduating moved somewhere we're just it
was just us and no one else around, and we
kind of made a network of friends that were swingers
and kind of got into things that way. Moving back
(44:50):
to Colorado, I didn't find that network, and we sort
of just had a set of just conversations about what
we're looking for, and we ended up going to like
a poly need up to see what the culture was like,
and it was much more in alignment.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
With what we were kind of looking for at that time,
and I loved that.
Speaker 10 (45:09):
Just sort of through a I guess period of a
couple of years or so, kind of switched fully into
that side of things. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
Do you guys think that it becomes more of a
need of needing other things from other people that one
partner can't fulfill. Do you think that makes the partner
feel bad for not being able to fulfill that?
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I think it can. Yeah. Really, I'm glad you brought
that up again because it's kind of touched on before.
Speaker 8 (45:42):
And I think I think that we have been, uh,
you know, programmed by all these different ways to believe
that one person can and should fulfill all of our needs.
I don't believe that to be true. I don't think
what pressure, what tremendous pressure. Sure, yes, I think that
one person has to fulfill all of our needs. Now
(46:04):
does does that stir feelings or emotions in someone? When
I say, well, you know, I like to you know
this my partner over here, like we like like punk
music and we want to go to like punk concerts,
or we want to do this like kinky sexual thing
that maybe like you're not into very much.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Does that make them feel bad?
Speaker 1 (46:20):
You know it?
Speaker 8 (46:20):
Ken, it can certainly, you know, communication can can really
help that and solve that, and reassurances and that sort
of thing that absolutely comes up.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
What about for you guys?
Speaker 4 (46:31):
But yeah, does you come up for you guys?
Speaker 7 (46:34):
All of those comes up?
Speaker 4 (46:36):
Yeah, Well, I think it really even comes up in
monogamous relationships. I know for a fact that a lot
of women in this world and men you know, sit
in very unfulfilling marriages. They love their spouses tremendously, they
love their children, they love their home life. But something
(46:56):
is missing, something is lacking. And it's not so much
that the partner is doing something wrong or bad, it's
just that it does the needs aren't quite met. And
I think I've experienced that in almost every relationship I've
been in, unfortunately, and.
Speaker 7 (47:13):
This this is one way.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (47:16):
Well, as a single person dating, let's just talk about
a single person dating for a second. Most dating coaches,
all dating coaches have all said on my show, date
multiple fucking people until you find your person. And I
find that dating multiple people is my person sometimes, you
(47:39):
know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (47:44):
I think that so.
Speaker 5 (47:46):
What Christine, the relationship structured Christine wants is she having
multiple men.
Speaker 7 (47:55):
And that and not the other way around.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
We know we all know this story, but I do
have to say that I've been sitting inside of this
feeling for a while thinking about this episode because you
and I talked weeks and weeks ago. I talked to
Janice about her relationship all the time, what they go through,
because it really enlightens me in my own relationships.
Speaker 7 (48:18):
Thank you, guys.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
But also the thing about it is is that I'm
almost out of time is that I find that I
can't I'm not feeling as if I care whether my
partner has another partner. Sometimes not always, but sometimes I've
really sat within that and realized maybe I might be
able to do this.
Speaker 6 (48:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
It's something I would have to try, and if it works,
it works, and if it doesn't, it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
It's great.
Speaker 8 (48:45):
I think there's a good learning moment here for your listeners,
who I think many, if not most of them, have
traditional relationships. You know, the idea, this idea that that
one person doesn't have to fill all our needs. That's
true in monogamy and traditional relationships. As well well, and
that's why it's so important for us to have other relationships.
They don't need to be romantic relationships for sexual relationships.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 8 (49:07):
I think having a relationships outside of the of the
sentual relationships.
Speaker 7 (49:12):
Non sexual, have a platonic partner, Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 8 (49:17):
I think it's really important and I think gets tricky
depending on if there's like you know, if a man
wants to have a friend who's a woman, that's something
that that couple is gonna have to figure out.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
And it's a great way to dive into heart.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
It shouldn't, Jenni said, it shouldn't be at heart and true, true, true, true.
I really hate to say this, but our freaking time
is up. And I've absolutely loved this episode. This episode
has been a freaking fun joy, and I think that
is very informational. If anybody needs to ask more questions
(49:50):
or has more questions, please reach out. There's Jody and
there's Janie who both can answer your questions and can
guide you along the way and we'll go from there.
Next week is just Steve and I. We're gonna be together.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
Yeah no, no, but you know we're next week.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
You're right, same time, same place next week. Say hang
on for a second Jody, same time, same place, next week,
and until then, let's just keep this shit real.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends,
like and follow us on Instagram at fifty.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
Shades of Underscore Bullshit and Facebook at fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Thanks so much for listening, and we really hope to
see you again next week
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