July 31, 2025 • 49 mins
Our last episode with Jodi exploring the world of polyamorous relationships was a hit — but we only scratched the surface. So, we’re back for part two! While Janice couldn’t join us this time, Jodi returns to dive even deeper into the dynamics of loving more than one person. This episode continues the conversation with new insights, real-life experiences, and plenty of candid moments you won’t want to miss.
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Fifty Shades of Bullshit is broadcast live Thursdays at 4PM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Fifty Shades of Bullshit TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Fifty Shades of Bullshit Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following show contains adult content. It's not our intent
to offend anyone, but we want to inform you that
if you are a child under the age of eighteen
or get offended easily, this next show may not be
for you. The content, opinions, and subject matter of these
shows are solely the choice of your show hosts and
their guests, and not those of the Entertainment Network or
any affiliated stations. Any comments or inquiry you should be
(00:21):
directed to those show hosts. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey everyone, and welcome to Fifty Shades of Bullshit. I'm
your host, Christine Lalan, and this is the podcast where
we uncover the truth about online dating. Now let's begin.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Hey everyone, I'm Christine and I'm Steve, and this is
fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Hi, everybody, beginning to understand that bullshit is actually way
more meaningful than we tend to think of.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I think that bullshit can stand for so many things. Yes,
and I love it.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
We tend to be so dismissive about it. Maybe there's
actually some wisdom in bullshit.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I think there's a lot of wisdom in bullshit. It's
one of my favorite words.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yes, But then as soon as you start to take
it too seriously, then you actually need to be a
little more dismissive about it. I think so the word
maybe teaches us to walk the line of significant and insignificant.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I think that I agree. And there's just something magical,
magical about the word bullshit. It's like it can be hard,
it can be funny, it can be all kinds of things.
And you know, I'm here in San Diego this week.
I am the event planner for Epic Realty and we
(01:52):
are at an Inman conference. It's for realtors and tech
and realtors in tech, and uh, I'm their event planner.
So my room here is full and bags and boxes everywhere.
My room is packed. But I brought my equipment and
I'm up here and I've been telling everybody. Every He's like, oh,
(02:15):
I need you to do this at this time, and
I'm like, listen, everyone, I've said this one hundred times Thursday,
three thirty to five, do not bother me because I
am doing my podcast and.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
And they're like, well, so this is my Epic water.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Little swag that they're giving away at this vention.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Our swag. Our swag is hot. We've got some cool
ass sunglasses that I was just wearing. Yea, but this
is our our water bottle and it's a glass water
It's yeah, there, this is back. It's pretty freaking cool.
(02:58):
But I'm up here and I and I'm like, hey,
I got to go. I gotta do my podcasts. And
Every's like, what is it? And I'm like fifty shades
of bullshit? And everybody in the room is like.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Oh my god, maybe we're gonna get all a bunch
of new listeners.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Amazing. I told him it was racy sometimes.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Ah, well, you had an experience you were about to
share with me, and I said, oh, we need to save.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
That, right.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So I don't know how to say it. What's the
word against Steve.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Philis philocybin.
Speaker 6 (03:29):
I experience?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I went. I went and visited the puff the Magic Dragon.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
You did your first time, my first.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Time, and we did one that was called penis envy. Okay,
it is one of the most strongest ones you can do. Yeah,
with that, you get some you know, really strong benefits
and it's it's very spiritually embedded. And Steve, I don't
(04:02):
think we knew what we were doing.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Yeah, let me clarify the the you mentioned the strain,
and the name of the strain is penis m B. Yes,
and when you say it's strong, that means that the
percent This isn't true with every every mushroom and every
penis ending that you have, but with most of that
(04:24):
particular strain, the percentage of psilocybin program is higher than
some other strains. But when you say that it's very strong,
the experience that you have is depend depends on a
whole range of different things. Could even even be how
recently you've eaten, you know, how clean your diet has
(04:45):
been over the previous few days. So there could be
a whole bunch of different things. So you're saying you
had a really strong experience, and was it particularly spiritual?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, wow, that's awesome. So if I did it with
a friend and he did it at the same time
and he thought he was gonna have this, you know whatever,
tuppy turns out he actually was outside of his body
the whole time, and he and a little bit into it.
He turned to me and said, I realized my journey
(05:15):
is to support you.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
Uh huh.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Because within thirty five minutes of taking it, and by
the way, I took three grams three grams. Okay, I'm insane.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
You're insane. It's pretty strong for first timer.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
It's very strong for first timer and for somebody who
is super sensitive. My body is hyper sensitive. I feel
things faster, sooner.
Speaker 6 (05:41):
Whatever.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
You should start around one gram for one and a half.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Maybe listen. I'm a go big or go home motherfuckers.
And I went all the way in and I will
tell you, Steve, it was. I think we should do
an episode on it, bring on some people. But I'll
be kind of a little bit about what happened to me.
(06:06):
I was, uh, started with some severe pains in my
stomach burning. The burning traveled up my body as I
went Now understand I had a over six hour experience, right,
and the burning started in my stomach, then went to
(06:28):
my chest, and I think it was moving through my chakras. Okay,
it eventually went down to my uh my, what's my
lowest chakra, my whatever, But it went up and I
could feel it in my throat at one point, and
then I felt it in my jaw. For the most
(06:48):
of the time, the severe pain in my face, it
was like someone was trying to rip the mask off
my face. And and and I when I say masks
because I've always talked about having a mask for all
my life, hidden be my mass, to be everything that
everybody wanted me to be. And then eventually went to
the crown, and it just oh like exploded out of
(07:10):
my head. I felt like my entire head cracked open.
But the hirest time, I was fighting black entities and
demons interesting for six hours, and I just kept seeing
my higher self, my higher self kiss kept saying, hang
in there, You're a healer, You're a healer. Let's just
heal this. And I healed all through my own my
(07:31):
own bs, my own bullshit, my trauma, the mass of
ugly dark. And I remember just screaming, screaming, saying, it
is so painful, it is so evil in here, it
is so horrific. There's so many times I was just saying,
I'm scared. I'm scared. I'm scared because it was so evil,
(07:55):
it was dark, and and if you know anything about
my trauma, my trauma is dark. And I was doing
ancestral healing for my family, of healings for my kids.
I did my daughter's husband. I did a deep dive
into him. I went into my ex daughter's husband, yeah,
my daughter's husband. Let's just say, uh, not great.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
I thought your daughter was how many daughters do you have?
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Three?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Okay, so you have one who's married.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Okay, listen. I think that her husband can be a
great guy. I think he just needs some healing. He's
got a lot of issues. And so I my brain
went there because I was like, I got to protect
my daughter. So I went in and did this healing
for him. And I went in and I started. Certain
friends would pop into my head. I was doing those
(08:44):
and I just felt like at one point it was
in the depth of hell and it was crazy. And
then my friend had this big Buddha and I can
feel I was all over that room, Steve. Every single
time I went through a he I had to throw up,
go to the bathroom. I was My body was purging
(09:06):
every time. So I was purging for six hours. I
was in severe pain for six hours. I was going
through a mental challenge, like the biggest mental challenge of
my life. And I'm telling you, if I hadn't been
as strong as the person as I am emotionally and mentally,
it could have broken me. Because that was the heaviest
(09:26):
shit I've ever gone through. And I am so grateful
today that I have because I am a changed person.
I feel so different. I can't explain it, and I
think I'll get into it in another episode. We can
talk about it. In August. I'd like to break some
things down with you and go through some stuff and
maybe have someone on who actually facilitates that, because I
(09:50):
have a really good friend who does that and so
and he's been wanting to come on and talk about it,
so we'll do that. But a lot has changed for me,
lots changed for my friend, like a lot, and it
is just a weirdly, wildly spiritual awakening and I'm very
grateful for it. And I will tell you that I
(10:13):
think things so quickly and it's manifesting very quickly. It's
just it's incredible. But yeah, that's that's kind of you
know what I went through this week? What are you
up to?
Speaker 4 (10:27):
And it sounds like a big weekend, a big one?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Anything anything in your world? Anything fun, exciting.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Lots of things happening. I don't know if we've even
talked about, but I do facilitate experiences, and I've been
doing that for.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Many years now. I did not know that.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Let's do it I will be a great topic for
us to talk about, and we could bring on some people.
And and what you describe is I would I would
say that the amount of work that people do prepare
for an experience, as well as the time after the experience,
that we call integration, is as important as the experience.
(11:09):
And it sounds like going into the experience, you didn't
point yourself.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Oh no, I did you. I did a whole thing.
I prepared, I did research, I did my own preparing,
I set my own intentions. I did a lot of
at we picked specific music, picked specific things, I wrote, journaling.
(11:34):
I did a lot of work before and then I
did it. And then I think the biggest work was
after because for an entire twenty four hours after I
had massive headache, massive and it was after I finished
doing all my aftercare and the hurts music that I
listened to help, and all the journaling and all the
(11:57):
focusing and all the other things I did after really helped.
And by I did it on a Saturday. By Monday
felt so changed.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
Cool.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Well, we should do that for an upcoming episode, or
more than one, because I know that the world is
I wouldn't say quite embracing psychedelics but very curious about them.
And there are people who are diving in without doing
the preparation and without doing integration, without doing the research.
(12:29):
And then there are people who are qualified and legit.
And it's important to know how to kind of sort
through and choose someone to support you, or if you
do choose to do a solo experience, how to prepare
for that and how to make sure that you are
not taking on something more than you can handle.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
No way I should have ever done it alone. I
do know that one hundred percent who I chose to
do it with. I'm very grateful that I did. I'm
very happy about that because he knows more about me
than anybody ever, I think, and I had no fear
of him hearing, seeing, or experiencing anything that I would say, do,
(13:13):
or feel, because I had He knows all about my
past and a lot of things. When you're with a
trauma victim, the shame and the guilt on our end,
even though it's not our game, our guilt and shame,
but we feel it a lot, and it can be humiliating,
(13:35):
our embarrassing or or you know, we don't know what's
going to come out of our mouths. You know, people
of trauma are afraid to the people think that we
like the trauma, you know what I mean, that's difficult.
That's a whole nother matter. We can talk about that
another time too. But I needed to feel safe with
somebody and not just any facilitator who doesn't know me
(13:58):
enough to know what I was going to be going through.
And he knew what I was going to be going through,
and so I I kind of felt that I was
going to experience some things because I do have a
lot of dark trauma. But I will tell you nothing,
nothing prepared me for what I experienced. And but while
I was going through, and I kept thinking, I'm not
(14:20):
going to survive this, I'm not going to provide this,
and my higher self just kept saying, shut up, you can,
you are you're doing. Be kind to yourself. Let's do this.
You got this, and it was quite extraordinary. Yeah, let's
let's plan that for August because I really would.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Like to do you mean, yes, Augustus, we're almost.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
Let's let's tie into what we're doing today.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Let's tie into what we're doing today because we have
a part two Part two.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, yeah, and uh, we We did an episode two
weeks ago. For those of you who were not there,
who haven't seen it, you should go back and listen
to part one. It's two weeks ago. It was episode
more than one Polyamory and we had Janice and Jody
(15:13):
and a surprise Janice's boyfriend on and it was such
a hit. I had a lot of people reaching out
seeing how fascinating it was, how interesting it was, and
had a lot of questions. So we decided to do
a part two, so we're gonna bring Jody on. Janie
could not come back today, she was busy, but Jody
Dryer Kate is here to see yu. Hi, Jody the friends.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
How's it going, Jody, excellent?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Thanks for being back. Jody. How's your last couple of
weeks been. It's been good.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
It's been really great.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
It's been really busy, I think, you know, summer travel,
gearing up for getting back to business in the fall.
It's been really good. It sounds like your couple of
weeks have been really interesting. That was an incredible story
that you shared, and I'm really excited to listen.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
To you guys talk more about that in August.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Sometimes because that's sounds like an incredible journey that you have,
and I think there are a lot of interest out
there in probably I'm sure in your listening pool.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Healing. It's all about the healing. I truly, people, you know,
I don't really know a lot about mushrooms or that
whole I can't even say the fucking word, what is it, stilob,
thank you. The thing is is that I've always been
told as I was growing up that it was a
(16:31):
horrible drug. It'll it'll do horrible things to you. And
then during college times, I watched all the college kids
in the late eighties early nineties doing mushrooms so they
can watch the stealing breathe and the walls move and
you know, and they just tripping out and have fun.
But you know, really it's it's an incredible healing tool
that I just I knew it would be, but I
(16:53):
didn't know the extent of it. And maybe, you know,
people learning more about it can help them on that journey.
Speaker 6 (17:01):
And that's the.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Tie in, I think to polyamory right there, the things
that we've been raised with and programmed with and everything,
and these healing journeys that we're wrong, which are major
themes in polyamory as well well.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Relationships themselves are set by a standard from previous families, people, friends,
and not anybody has it right, you know, we don't know.
Relationships are just as different as people's eye color, hair color,
(17:33):
skin color, face shapes, body shapes, because no relationship is
ever the same, and we are told that we are
meant to be in this very specific kind of relationship.
And I understand now that I don't know if polyamory
is for me. I don't know if monogami is for me.
(17:55):
I don't know. It's about figuring out who I am
and what works for me, and what works for you,
what works, what works for anyone. And I don't think
that we should be afraid or ashamed of discussing things
that make us happy or turns our life around, And
nor do I think that you know. Someone says to me, oh,
(18:18):
are you really into this polyamory stuff, and I said, no,
I'm into educating people on ways of having relationships that
suit them, what ever makes other people fucking happy. Lets go, well, I'm.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I'm going to say that unless you are consciously co
creating your relationships, however they are romantic or otherwise, then
you're just falling into some kind of default, you know,
based on your culture, your family, your religious upbringing, and
all of that is informing you unless you're actually taking
the time to think about it and consciously conscious of it.
(18:56):
So I'm happy that you came back to me to
join us and share about what has become the lifestyle
or call one of one of one of the terms
for it is the lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, so I think personally, lifestyle is a little bit
different lifestyle for me when I know what I know
about it is really about swinging sex clubs and really
just experimenting that way. I think polyamory and correct me
if I'm wrong. Jody feels more about a relationship and
(19:28):
a dynamic of a day to day lifestyle.
Speaker 6 (19:32):
I think that's right, and I think we're also all right.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
Lifestyle is kind of this antiquated, slash evolving term where
you suggest mean swinger, and people do use it more
broadly to describe ethical non monogamy or consensual non monogamy.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Some people prefer that term.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
But I think, yeah, I think that the lifestyle and
and that's that's merged with the scene and and all
these alternative lifestyles are kind of starting to melt together.
But yes, I agree, Christine. The term lifestyle is more
traditionally associated with swinging, and you know, polyamory is I
call it kind of a more connection based relationships, whereas
(20:14):
swinging is more, I don't know, more sexual based.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
I suppose I'd.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Say, I'd love to ask you about that, because I
know that we didn't really talk much about sex last time.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
You can really talk.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
About the specifics, and I know that in some polyamorous
relationship relationships you might not. You might include a partner
who is not a lover, who is not a sexual partner.
So why don't you share with us a little bit
about some of Like I've heard the term or the
phrase the way you do Polly may not be the
way anyone else does Polly, or some other version of that.
(20:48):
You know, so pomors relationships are different. How how might
you describe some of the different similarities that polyamorous relationships have?
So why don't you run with that?
Speaker 5 (21:00):
I think it's the similarities between polyamorous relationships is the connections.
It's it's it's holding space for multiple loves, it's it's.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
Maintaining more than one relationship with with somebody else. You know, man,
woman or otherwise.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
So I think I think that's I think that's the
common part of it. Now what's uncommon and polyamory kind
of falls into this ethical non monogamy category and within
my community here in Denver and others that I've explored.
You know, sometimes polyamorous people are swingers. Also sometimes they're
sex for it or sex positive, uh and sexual like
(21:39):
like I am. Actually I think I shared the last show,
I kind of began a swinger with my former spouse.
So there's so many different flavors in between and I
and and and and they're all different, and.
Speaker 6 (21:49):
They're all wonderful.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
But that that's that's that's the that's the bridge between
them all.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
Steve, I think is just holding space for multiple love.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
I've explained that as the type you know, holding space
like you would if you have if you have children,
if you have more than one child or family, who
you love.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
And what are some of the there's certain terms within
the realm of polyamory, like for the one kitchen table
polyamory or hierarchical polyamory, like what that refers to. Just
so people can kind of get an idea of some
of the models that people are exploring.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
Yeah, and I'm not a label expert, and I'll share
what my perspective is. And there's a listener out there
that might disagree, and I, you know, I'm.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
Just coming from where I come from.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
But I you throw out some really interesting terms, especially
kitchen table polyamory KTP or garden party polyamory, and that's
really refers to how everybody in the relationship interacts, and
everybody in the relationship is not just the people who
are directly into the relationship. My partners have metamors for example.
(22:56):
To introduce another other.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Term, Yeah, that's right, tell us what that is.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
Well, like my my primary partner, Deanna is a metamor
to Megan and Stephanie, my two other partners. So it's
the relationship that they have with other partners, and that
can look different.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
And you know, yep, I actually know a couple of
them that do not like each other or even have
anything to do with each other, and they're just all separate.
And then I think that several, like you know, get
to know each other have relationships as friends and you know,
like that, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
And everything's right every every way people are approaching it
to whatever feels good to them, is right, and my
my partners as relationships have evolved over time, Deanna and
and Megan have a very close friendship and relationship.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
Deanna's getting to know Stephanie better. They're getting to know
each other better.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
We are somewhere between kitchen table and garden party Paul Oh,
And just to explain those terms a little bit, the
reason we call kitchen table polyamory. That implies that we
could all sit around the kitchen table together and have
conversations and all be friendly with each other.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
Garden party polyamory.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
Is you know, maybe maybe we don't all sit around
the kitchen table together, but we see we see each
other at parties, and we're friendly and cordial with each other.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Can I can I define some talk about something really
quick here, because I think that this could pop into
a lot of people's minds like it did mine, and
I just want to address that. When you said the
kitchen table where you can all just kind of sit around,
I think a lot of people are under the impression
that you're just having orgies between you and your three girls,
And I mean, is it is I'm sure that's possible
(24:46):
in certain relationships, but in most I think that those
aren't even intermixed.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Am I correct, You're you're correct on both fronts. Sometimes
there are orgies between everybody.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I hear, well, a good orgy is a good orgy.
Reorganize them.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
Yeah, sometimes there is there is there is that that
that sexual aside to it. And then in other cases,
you're absolutely aready have friends in the polyamory community who
have relationships like you described, where the where the relationships
are are kept quite separate.
Speaker 6 (25:17):
And the one thing they do have in common that
they all know.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
About them they're all ethical, right, right, Some people prefer
you know, not to you know, don't ask, don't tell
type of HEAs for lack of a better phrase, there's
a lot of criticism around that phrase.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
But yeah, but there's something that I've come across and
working with some of the couples that I've worked with,
when there is that quality of don't ask, don't tell,
that's more like an open relationship versus polyamory almost implies
that there's a level and quality of communication between all
parties and a transparency about it that may or may
(25:52):
not be available in what's called an open relationship, where
you might have Hey, I don't really. I'm cool with
you going out and having other partners. I just don't
want to know about it. And I think that to me,
at least as a framework and to have some jargon
that gives us access to being able to talk about things,
is separate things a little bit, not always.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
Yeah, I think that's a great way to make it,
to think about it. I think that's right. I think
that's right.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
That's good. I like that. I have a couple of
questions for you that popped up to my head while
we were doing the last episode and we didn't get
to it, and I what kind of structured some stuff
for you? Like, how do polyamorous couples people define commitment?
Is it different from monogamous relationships? I mean, when you're
talking about committing yourself to a multitude of people, how,
(26:43):
how is that really structured to define? I mean, does
that make sense?
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Is that a I think I understand what you're asking
and I think it's defined is with a lot of
communication and agreement and openness. And that was the major
theme of our last conversation. Okay, And that's a major
theme I think of Hollyamory in general. And it's also
should be me and it is a major theme of
any kid, any kind of relationship and traditional relationships. And
I think that's something where your listeners, no matter where
(27:09):
they fall in the spectrum of of monogamy and monogamation
non monogamy, that they can we can all learn about
the importance of communication. So I my relationships with different
partners are we we we design them, Steve, we co
create them together, and they're they're all different. And yeah,
I have I've had conversations with some partners of what
(27:32):
what does it mean to call you my partner? Are
you a partner? Are you a girlfriend? Are you a
play partner? Are you a friends with benefits? These are
all types of things that we discussed. And I had
discussions with one partner where she says, I I need
a certain amount of time. I need we need to
see each other to really feel like we're loving and
supporting each other as partners.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
We need to see each other a certain amount.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
Of time, and and I and then and that kind
of varies, and then you know, I you know other
partners we don't necessarily the conversation is is different, but
at the end of the day, everything fits together.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
I want to I don't want to make it sound
like it's so easy.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Well, yeah, here's part of that that I'm curious about.
Can polyamorous relationships offer like more emotional support it differently
than a monogamous or is it just more emotionally complex
then you think that a monogamous relationship?
Speaker 6 (28:36):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Like the question is there. It's hard for me to
structure it in the way that I'm trying to that
I see it in my head sometimes, but do you
know what I'm trying to get at? Like that structure
between monogamous and polyamory, there's a lot of emotional and
tide into it. And when you get emotionally invested like
that and you're dividing that emotional connection between multiple people,
(29:00):
how does that? How does that jive? How does that work?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
I've had me to be very conscious and aware and
intentional about the support and attention that I give to
my partners. I have to really think about it's. You know,
my primary partner I shared in the last episode, she
lives very close. We spend a lot of time together,
and we give each other a lot of attention and support.
It It's it's kind of easy for us we're accessible
to each other, and I have to be conscious about
(29:26):
reaching out to my other partners and by asking them
how they're doing, you know, how they're I and I
literally ask them oftentimes how are you doing emotionally this week?
Speaker 6 (29:35):
If they're they're going through things?
Speaker 5 (29:38):
You know, you you you asked if is is it
emotionally complex or more emotionally supportive? I think everybody in
the community has different experiences. My experience has been that
has been more emotionally supportive we and which is really wonderful.
And you know, there's things I can talk I talk
about with I can talk to I think all my
partners about any anything.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
We we have a relationship.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
But there are certain things and certain ways that I
talk with some partners differently than others, just because they're
of their backgrounds and experiences.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Do you think that there's a more there's more of
a possibility of witnessing a burnout from juggling too many
dynamics and in different relations.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
I you know, when I was I kind of explored
where my edge was in polyamory and I had just
several months ago.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, because I can I can see it.
Speaker 6 (30:37):
I had I had four partners. There's four women in
my life who I heard.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
The number four in my head the minute you said that,
and I thought four was too much for him.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
It was it was hard, it was really difficult, and
I didn't and and the one relationship changed for other reasons,
you know, personal reasons, but but also I also thought
that I wasn't able to provide what my partners deserved
and expected with with with four people.
Speaker 6 (31:04):
And I kind of felt like that was maybe my edge.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
And I was just speaking with my partner Deanna, I
think last night about this where she's we communicate about
people who I'm interested. I've you, guys, I'm a total
love slot. I have crushing all over the place every
night of the week, and my sometimes it's so overwhelming.
And but she likes to check in with me, and
so what are you thinking, like, do you really do
(31:27):
you want to do you want this person as a partner?
And I say, you know, I and I and I've
shared with her, I've I've kind of defined for myself.
Speaker 6 (31:34):
I think I'm about it. And for the reasons I
just told you.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
Being able to provide what they deserve and expect. But
I do like to be able to leave open to
have dates and friendships and that sort of thing, in
addition to by partners who are committed to right.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I can imagine that it can really I mean, I'm
sure you have said you had a son, right.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
I have three kids. I have two three daughters and
a son.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Do you have children, you have family, you have partners,
you have you have life, you have friends a lot.
And then when you're emotionally, physically, mentally, all the leaves
and you're putting that into all these different people, I
can imagine that it can get very exhausting and time consuming.
(32:20):
At some point, do you find that you have to
take time for yourself even more so than you normally would,
or are you just like, fuck it, I'm just gonna
free love with all of them.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
I love time to myself, which may surprise people who
know me.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
People who know me think, Joe, I cannot believe you
go go go.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
You're doing this for work, You're involved with that convention,
You're doing this coaching over here, you're doing podcasts or
doing all these things.
Speaker 6 (32:45):
You have three partners.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
To me, it feels very natural. It feels very slowing.
To answer your question about about solo time. I don't
know if I describe myself in the last episode as
as solo Paul. My relationship with myself is really important.
My relationship with myself is the most important relationship. It
has to be, Yeah, and that helps me show.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
Up for the for the for my other relationships.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Well, your partners have to think it is too so
when you have a partner, because even monogamous people have
partners that are like, why aren't you with me every
minute of the day, Why aren't you spending every weekend
with me? Why are you going out camping with the guys?
Why wasn't I invited?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You know?
Speaker 3 (33:23):
And then it becomes even more so because now it's like, well,
you're with the other woman and I really needed you.
I mean, I can't even imagine what that feels like.
I mean, it's hard enough when you're just dating, and
you date you know, because you date with you know,
define your your people. It's the same kind of thing.
I think. It just can really pull you in all directions.
(33:44):
It's possible to really focus unless you take time for yourself.
Speaker 6 (33:48):
It does.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
And I know there's relationships out there where they some
some partners may hope for or expect some kind of
you know, equity of time and things like that.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
I'm I'm fortunate.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
Well it's intentional also, I was gonna say, I'm fortunate
where me and all my partners we're just really grateful
for the time that we can have together and for
the agreements that we had I or the agreements we've
made on what kind of time we need and expect.
So I've been really lucky that way. There's other relationships
out there, polyamics, relationships in my community and people I
know who it's it's it's not that simple, and it
(34:23):
is really difficult, and those.
Speaker 6 (34:26):
Feelings are are valid.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
We do we do have needs and I you know
I and it's uh, you know, a big part of
this lifestyle is learning things like you know, communicating your
needs and uh and and and and partners being compassionate
and graceful, grace giving towards that.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Yeah, question, Uh, what do you think some of the
big misconceptions are about the polyamorous lifestyle or community or relationships.
Speaker 6 (34:54):
This is this is such a great question.
Speaker 5 (34:57):
And before the last episode, and I'll try to think
of the ones that came to the top before the
last episode, I posted in several E M M Facebook groups.
Speaker 6 (35:06):
And that was one of the questions I posted. And
I'm going on this podcast what are you know?
Speaker 5 (35:11):
What are what do you think some of the misconceptions
are you know a lot of One of the big
misconceptions would would be be because I am polyamorous, I
am available.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Yeah, that you're willing to just have, you know, more
relationships with more people.
Speaker 6 (35:27):
That's right, thank you?
Speaker 3 (35:30):
What's that you can't get enough?
Speaker 5 (35:33):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (35:33):
You're just needing more and more and more women or
women need more more men. I think that's a big
miss and.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
I think that's where the term the lifestyle was conflated
with the kink media, s M community, UH, sex party community,
sex positive community. Like all of these different if we
were looking at a different ven diagram of all these
different circles, uh, they each have their own expression, but
there is possibly overlap even a monogamous monogamous world, that's right.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
This question is forming in my head and I can't
quite get like, do you think that people just look
at you in a way or guys especially and go oh,
or women think you know you're being selfish because you
need more than one partner? Do you think that that
is a big part of that. People are like, oh,
(36:25):
you just can't be satisfied with one woman? Why aren't
I enough for you?
Speaker 6 (36:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
How do you deal with that kind of thing.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
That one that one actually touches me? And I think
the answer is yes.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
I think there is this perception by some people who
feel like, you know, if if they're in a relationship
with me and I want to be in a relationship
with someone else, that they're not enough.
Speaker 6 (36:46):
And I think people knew or and exploring polyamory, like
one of my partners is has gone through that, and
you guys, that really affected my former marriage actually also
that was a major factor and a major theme. And
I just wish I could I wish I've told this.
I wish they could see into my heart to know
that that's not true. And that's just not how I
view things. It's not about wanting more and more or more.
(37:08):
It's about who I am. It's about who I really
am at my core. This is my identity.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
I as happy solo and alone as I am with
three partners, I promise you.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
So that's another that's another big misconception.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
I think one of the things that I think a
lot about it when I think, if this is something
for somebody, is how would you navigate like say, holidays,
family events, social situations when everyone understands and accepts Paula Amory.
But then again, who do you choose? What partner? What
(37:45):
do you do? Do you bring them all and be like, hey,
I'm you know, I got three women? You know what
I mean? It's like, how how does how does that
navigation between all that happen?
Speaker 5 (37:56):
That is a really great question, and it's really difficult,
and everybody approaches it differently. I have no spoken kind
of rule for that, and I've had conversations with my
partners about that before. My partners is relationships that they
have are ever evolving, like all of ours are, and
(38:16):
so they've gone through periods where we've been all together
and they've had primary partners, and sometimes they've had partners
where that they spend holiday time and family time together.
I feel really lucky to have been have had some
family events or group events here at the house, for example,
where all three of my partners are there.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Do they also bring their other partners? I mean? Is
it just like you know, it's kind of cool.
Speaker 6 (38:46):
It feels so good, it feels so magical and it
feels really great.
Speaker 5 (38:49):
There's also I've also have friends and people have been
partners with where it's been really difficult, where they've had
primary partners, where they've been in situations where they where
they can't spend holidays because of holidays are big because
of their partners' situation on the ender on their other end.
(39:10):
So there's a lot of feelings that come up with
that and a lot of difficulty, And it just comes
down to how you define your relationships and undergirding that
is that communication that we keep talking about.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
I do think communication might be the strongest factor or
key in well one in any relationship, like let's fucking
talk people, okay, But I think in this type of
situation it might require a lot more than your average
bear relationship, because I mean, think about it, You've got
(39:46):
a lot of feelings going on, You've got a lot
of dynamics, you've got a lot of different types of personalities,
and I don't know, it can be a lot. And
I think a lot of monogamous people are like, hell no,
it's hard have to keep up with one, you know,
much less more than one. That's that's it's a lot
of responsibility and it's a lot of work.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
I literally have a degree in communication.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
That I think you need to but I think you do.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
I was we're with this comedian at this event, and
she was and we got to spend some time with
her afterwards, and she said I and she was really
curious about us in our relationships, and Polyamory said, I
feel like, I feel like you need to have a
doctorate in communication, you know, to be successful at it.
And yeah, my parents said that degree wouldn't be worth anything,
but they know I put it to use.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
I think we're also we're in an interesting time where
relationship norms are more malleable.
Speaker 6 (40:44):
You know, these these these.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Relationship models have been going on for a long time.
People have been questioning the model of monogamy for a
long time, but it's now coming to the foreground and
it's more transparent where people are talking about different models
of relationship the same way we are the norms of
quote unquote air quotes here, norms about gender, norms about
(41:08):
sexual orientation. That is becoming more malleable. And I'm hoping
that the younger generations are actually more fluid, more open.
And actually this brings about a form of communication that
is much more complex, but much more inclusive and transparent.
(41:29):
But I am getting into a question.
Speaker 6 (41:31):
Here have problems.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Yes, really do you think if that's the case, and
maybe you don't agree with that, but if that's the case,
what do you think that people who aren't buying this,
they're like, oh my god, this is so outside the norm,
this is scary for me, or this is uncomfortable how
you can share? Because I'm sure you go to the
grocery store and you're with one partner and then you're
(41:54):
talking to the neighbor and say, oh, yeah, this is
my partner's own so and then you go the next
day and as, oh, this is my with a different
partner and they're like, wait a minute, Wait a minute,
I thought you were with you know, so I know.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
It's taking you're cheating, or yeah, I know.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
It challenges people outside of the conversation here. What do
you do about that? And what do you think people
who are polyamors should do to be more inclusive for
people this might be really uncomfortable. Yeah, let me address
reverse was that it was a very long winded question.
Speaker 5 (42:26):
Well, and let me address first too that I do
think that the younger generations are few relationships as more fluid.
I have friends and plate partners in their twenties and thirties,
and that is absolutely their attitude and approach, which is.
Speaker 6 (42:41):
Really wonderful to see.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
And I think we're kind of collecting all these viewpoints
under this alternative lifestyle kind of terminology, and I'm really
excited to see more of that community events. There's an
All Life Expo actually happening in Denver next January whose
purpose is to bring together all these different age groups
(43:02):
as well as groups of different types of relationships structors,
people who are polyamorous, and swingers and kinksters and fetishists
and queer and all of that. I also think, you know, Steve,
you mentioned there's there has been fluidity in relationships, and
I talked about the great example the gay community was
in teaching other alternative lifestyle people to be brave and
(43:23):
how to come out and everything. And they've also and
I'm not a spokesperson for them, and I certainly don't
want to be mistake in first speaking for all of them,
but I have had several conversations anecdotally where my gay
friends and in the gay community where they their relationships
are fluid. They just they we've given it a name now,
but they are very they have been very open, and
(43:45):
I think what it takes.
Speaker 6 (43:46):
I think what it takes to be able to have
these relationships. It takes work. It takes their work.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
Yes, Yes, and we've been really you know, I think
a lot of us have been programmed and programmed into
these in tremendous insecurities around relationships and whether or not
you choose non monogamy or not. I think, I hope,
I wish for everybody to take the opportunities to heal
are are wounded in our children. And I'm smiling, but
(44:16):
I'm really serious and I've I've done that, and you
see a lot of that work in this community. A
lot of therapists and coaches are focusing on it because
there's a lot of opportunity there.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
I think it takes a lot of real strong intention.
I think that you have to be very specific about
what your intentions are, and I think you know more
than anything. It takes being open, kind and completely understanding.
But I think the biggest key factor that I'm taking
(44:47):
beyond communication is an ability to set your ego and
like selfishness aside and real think about your partners in
your partner or whatever, and you know, focus on the
other's needs not just your own. And I think that
(45:10):
makes a big I personally. That's what I'm getting out
of it. That's that's what I see. Because I think
a lot of people would think that this was a
selfish thing. I think a lot of people would say
this is a selfish motherfucker who wants just to have
sex with a bunch of women and have his cake
and eat it too. But I really don't see that anymore.
(45:32):
I don't think that anymore anyway. I think maybe I
might have in a previous you know, time, in my
space my energy because I would go not satisfied with
one woman, what the fuck? But I honestly don't see that.
I see truly all my friends that I have become
really well acquainted with, they show me that they are
(45:55):
more loving, more respectful, more communication less, ego less. Yeah,
they're still drama because we're all fucking human. But I
really see a big shift in my own opinion of it,
and I truly hope that I've helped other people have
a shift, because I don't think there should be judgment
in anyone's relationships. It's not anybody else's business. What the
(46:18):
fuck we do? Yeah, let's focus on our own communication
with who we got and not worry about everybody else's.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
Oh come on, it's so much easier pass judgment on
others than to deal with myself.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Come on, that's right true that half the fucking world
does that, I swear to God exactly. I personally think
that we should have a communications classes in grade school,
in middle school, in high school. They should go all
the way up, and it should go with the age
instead of just having it communications in college. I think
that communications should start in grade school and work all
(46:53):
the way through.
Speaker 5 (46:53):
Christian I kind of joked about, you know, parents, other
people saying, oh, communications degree is worthless. I am so
proud of of of the work I did in my
communications course and the things I've learned, which is really
grounded in psychology, and I totally there's not enough of
it and we can all really benefit to learn more
about it at an earlier age.
Speaker 6 (47:11):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
I don't think that this world was would be as
divided as it is. I'm not saying that we should
be all topia and all think the same fucking way.
I'm not that's not me. I say, to each its own.
But I think the most important thing is that we
need to realize that communication opens the doors to understanding
(47:34):
for other people. And I don't get why we can't
just try to care and understand about others. I really
appreciate that you've come on here a couple times with us, Jody,
and really try to help us, help other people see
what this really is about, and that it's not just
some free for all sex you know, fiend who wants
(47:55):
to have a bunch of partners. And I really appreciate that,
you know, you've given this really beautiful feeling of you know,
this is just about love and communication and enjoying other people,
and I love that. So thank you for being here.
Speaker 6 (48:09):
I'm so glad to be here. Thank you very much.
Speaker 5 (48:11):
And appreciate listeners considering different viewpoints and perspectives.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Listen, it's not for everybody, and I'm not trying to
tell everybody it is, and I think that everybody should
find what works for them and go from there. Well,
we're out of time and my engineer is yelling at
me to go, so we gotta go. But thank you again, Jody.
(48:37):
There were questions and I'm sorry we did not get
to them, but this was so fascinating. Steve, love you.
Thank you so much for being here with me every week.
We're going to be back, same place, same time next week,
and until then, let's just keep this shit real. If
you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, like
(48:59):
and followow us on Instagram at fifty Shades of Underscore
Bullshit and Facebook at fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Thanks so much for listening, and we really hope to
see you again next week
The following show contains adult content. It's not our intent
to offend anyone, but we want to inform you that
if you are a child under the age of eighteen
or get offended easily, this next show may not be
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shows are solely the choice of your show hosts and
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(00:21):
directed to those show hosts. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey everyone, and welcome to Fifty Shades of Bullshit. I'm
your host, Christine Lalan, and this is the podcast where
we uncover the truth about online dating. Now let's begin.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Hey everyone, I'm Christine and I'm Steve, and this is
fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Hi, everybody, beginning to understand that bullshit is actually way
more meaningful than we tend to think of.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I think that bullshit can stand for so many things. Yes,
and I love it.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
We tend to be so dismissive about it. Maybe there's
actually some wisdom in bullshit.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I think there's a lot of wisdom in bullshit. It's
one of my favorite words.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yes, But then as soon as you start to take
it too seriously, then you actually need to be a
little more dismissive about it. I think so the word
maybe teaches us to walk the line of significant and insignificant.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I think that I agree. And there's just something magical,
magical about the word bullshit. It's like it can be hard,
it can be funny, it can be all kinds of things.
And you know, I'm here in San Diego this week.
I am the event planner for Epic Realty and we
(01:52):
are at an Inman conference. It's for realtors and tech
and realtors in tech, and uh, I'm their event planner.
So my room here is full and bags and boxes everywhere.
My room is packed. But I brought my equipment and
I'm up here and I've been telling everybody. Every He's like, oh,
(02:15):
I need you to do this at this time, and
I'm like, listen, everyone, I've said this one hundred times Thursday,
three thirty to five, do not bother me because I
am doing my podcast and.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
And they're like, well, so this is my Epic water.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Little swag that they're giving away at this vention.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Our swag. Our swag is hot. We've got some cool
ass sunglasses that I was just wearing. Yea, but this
is our our water bottle and it's a glass water
It's yeah, there, this is back. It's pretty freaking cool.
(02:58):
But I'm up here and I and I'm like, hey,
I got to go. I gotta do my podcasts. And
Every's like, what is it? And I'm like fifty shades
of bullshit? And everybody in the room is like.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Oh my god, maybe we're gonna get all a bunch
of new listeners.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Amazing. I told him it was racy sometimes.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Ah, well, you had an experience you were about to
share with me, and I said, oh, we need to save.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
That, right.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So I don't know how to say it. What's the
word against Steve.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Philis philocybin.
Speaker 6 (03:29):
I experience?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I went. I went and visited the puff the Magic Dragon.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
You did your first time, my first.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Time, and we did one that was called penis envy. Okay,
it is one of the most strongest ones you can do. Yeah,
with that, you get some you know, really strong benefits
and it's it's very spiritually embedded. And Steve, I don't
(04:02):
think we knew what we were doing.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Yeah, let me clarify the the you mentioned the strain,
and the name of the strain is penis m B. Yes,
and when you say it's strong, that means that the
percent This isn't true with every every mushroom and every
penis ending that you have, but with most of that
(04:24):
particular strain, the percentage of psilocybin program is higher than
some other strains. But when you say that it's very strong,
the experience that you have is depend depends on a
whole range of different things. Could even even be how
recently you've eaten, you know, how clean your diet has
(04:45):
been over the previous few days. So there could be
a whole bunch of different things. So you're saying you
had a really strong experience, and was it particularly spiritual?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, wow, that's awesome. So if I did it with
a friend and he did it at the same time
and he thought he was gonna have this, you know whatever,
tuppy turns out he actually was outside of his body
the whole time, and he and a little bit into it.
He turned to me and said, I realized my journey
(05:15):
is to support you.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
Uh huh.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Because within thirty five minutes of taking it, and by
the way, I took three grams three grams. Okay, I'm insane.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
You're insane. It's pretty strong for first timer.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
It's very strong for first timer and for somebody who
is super sensitive. My body is hyper sensitive. I feel
things faster, sooner.
Speaker 6 (05:41):
Whatever.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
You should start around one gram for one and a half.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Maybe listen. I'm a go big or go home motherfuckers.
And I went all the way in and I will
tell you, Steve, it was. I think we should do
an episode on it, bring on some people. But I'll
be kind of a little bit about what happened to me.
(06:06):
I was, uh, started with some severe pains in my
stomach burning. The burning traveled up my body as I
went Now understand I had a over six hour experience, right,
and the burning started in my stomach, then went to
(06:28):
my chest, and I think it was moving through my chakras. Okay,
it eventually went down to my uh my, what's my
lowest chakra, my whatever, But it went up and I
could feel it in my throat at one point, and
then I felt it in my jaw. For the most
(06:48):
of the time, the severe pain in my face, it
was like someone was trying to rip the mask off
my face. And and and I when I say masks
because I've always talked about having a mask for all
my life, hidden be my mass, to be everything that
everybody wanted me to be. And then eventually went to
the crown, and it just oh like exploded out of
(07:10):
my head. I felt like my entire head cracked open.
But the hirest time, I was fighting black entities and
demons interesting for six hours, and I just kept seeing
my higher self, my higher self kiss kept saying, hang
in there, You're a healer, You're a healer. Let's just
heal this. And I healed all through my own my
(07:31):
own bs, my own bullshit, my trauma, the mass of
ugly dark. And I remember just screaming, screaming, saying, it
is so painful, it is so evil in here, it
is so horrific. There's so many times I was just saying,
I'm scared. I'm scared. I'm scared because it was so evil,
(07:55):
it was dark, and and if you know anything about
my trauma, my trauma is dark. And I was doing
ancestral healing for my family, of healings for my kids.
I did my daughter's husband. I did a deep dive
into him. I went into my ex daughter's husband, yeah,
my daughter's husband. Let's just say, uh, not great.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
I thought your daughter was how many daughters do you have?
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Three?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Okay, so you have one who's married.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Okay, listen. I think that her husband can be a
great guy. I think he just needs some healing. He's
got a lot of issues. And so I my brain
went there because I was like, I got to protect
my daughter. So I went in and did this healing
for him. And I went in and I started. Certain
friends would pop into my head. I was doing those
(08:44):
and I just felt like at one point it was
in the depth of hell and it was crazy. And
then my friend had this big Buddha and I can
feel I was all over that room, Steve. Every single
time I went through a he I had to throw up,
go to the bathroom. I was My body was purging
(09:06):
every time. So I was purging for six hours. I
was in severe pain for six hours. I was going
through a mental challenge, like the biggest mental challenge of
my life. And I'm telling you, if I hadn't been
as strong as the person as I am emotionally and mentally,
it could have broken me. Because that was the heaviest
(09:26):
shit I've ever gone through. And I am so grateful
today that I have because I am a changed person.
I feel so different. I can't explain it, and I
think I'll get into it in another episode. We can
talk about it. In August. I'd like to break some
things down with you and go through some stuff and
maybe have someone on who actually facilitates that, because I
(09:50):
have a really good friend who does that and so
and he's been wanting to come on and talk about it,
so we'll do that. But a lot has changed for me,
lots changed for my friend, like a lot, and it
is just a weirdly, wildly spiritual awakening and I'm very
grateful for it. And I will tell you that I
(10:13):
think things so quickly and it's manifesting very quickly. It's
just it's incredible. But yeah, that's that's kind of you
know what I went through this week? What are you
up to?
Speaker 4 (10:27):
And it sounds like a big weekend, a big one?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Anything anything in your world? Anything fun, exciting.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Lots of things happening. I don't know if we've even
talked about, but I do facilitate experiences, and I've been
doing that for.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Many years now. I did not know that.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Let's do it I will be a great topic for
us to talk about, and we could bring on some people.
And and what you describe is I would I would
say that the amount of work that people do prepare
for an experience, as well as the time after the experience,
that we call integration, is as important as the experience.
(11:09):
And it sounds like going into the experience, you didn't
point yourself.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Oh no, I did you. I did a whole thing.
I prepared, I did research, I did my own preparing,
I set my own intentions. I did a lot of
at we picked specific music, picked specific things, I wrote, journaling.
(11:34):
I did a lot of work before and then I
did it. And then I think the biggest work was
after because for an entire twenty four hours after I
had massive headache, massive and it was after I finished
doing all my aftercare and the hurts music that I
listened to help, and all the journaling and all the
(11:57):
focusing and all the other things I did after really helped.
And by I did it on a Saturday. By Monday
felt so changed.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
Cool.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Well, we should do that for an upcoming episode, or
more than one, because I know that the world is
I wouldn't say quite embracing psychedelics but very curious about them.
And there are people who are diving in without doing
the preparation and without doing integration, without doing the research.
(12:29):
And then there are people who are qualified and legit.
And it's important to know how to kind of sort
through and choose someone to support you, or if you
do choose to do a solo experience, how to prepare
for that and how to make sure that you are
not taking on something more than you can handle.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
No way I should have ever done it alone. I
do know that one hundred percent who I chose to
do it with. I'm very grateful that I did. I'm
very happy about that because he knows more about me
than anybody ever, I think, and I had no fear
of him hearing, seeing, or experiencing anything that I would say, do,
(13:13):
or feel, because I had He knows all about my
past and a lot of things. When you're with a
trauma victim, the shame and the guilt on our end,
even though it's not our game, our guilt and shame,
but we feel it a lot, and it can be humiliating,
(13:35):
our embarrassing or or you know, we don't know what's
going to come out of our mouths. You know, people
of trauma are afraid to the people think that we
like the trauma, you know what I mean, that's difficult.
That's a whole nother matter. We can talk about that
another time too. But I needed to feel safe with
somebody and not just any facilitator who doesn't know me
(13:58):
enough to know what I was going to be going through.
And he knew what I was going to be going through,
and so I I kind of felt that I was
going to experience some things because I do have a
lot of dark trauma. But I will tell you nothing,
nothing prepared me for what I experienced. And but while
I was going through, and I kept thinking, I'm not
(14:20):
going to survive this, I'm not going to provide this,
and my higher self just kept saying, shut up, you can,
you are you're doing. Be kind to yourself. Let's do this.
You got this, and it was quite extraordinary. Yeah, let's
let's plan that for August because I really would.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Like to do you mean, yes, Augustus, we're almost.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
Let's let's tie into what we're doing today.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Let's tie into what we're doing today because we have
a part two Part two.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, yeah, and uh, we We did an episode two
weeks ago. For those of you who were not there,
who haven't seen it, you should go back and listen
to part one. It's two weeks ago. It was episode
more than one Polyamory and we had Janice and Jody
(15:13):
and a surprise Janice's boyfriend on and it was such
a hit. I had a lot of people reaching out
seeing how fascinating it was, how interesting it was, and
had a lot of questions. So we decided to do
a part two, so we're gonna bring Jody on. Janie
could not come back today, she was busy, but Jody
Dryer Kate is here to see yu. Hi, Jody the friends.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
How's it going, Jody, excellent?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Thanks for being back. Jody. How's your last couple of
weeks been. It's been good.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
It's been really great.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
It's been really busy, I think, you know, summer travel,
gearing up for getting back to business in the fall.
It's been really good. It sounds like your couple of
weeks have been really interesting. That was an incredible story
that you shared, and I'm really excited to listen.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
To you guys talk more about that in August.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Sometimes because that's sounds like an incredible journey that you have,
and I think there are a lot of interest out
there in probably I'm sure in your listening pool.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Healing. It's all about the healing. I truly, people, you know,
I don't really know a lot about mushrooms or that
whole I can't even say the fucking word, what is it, stilob,
thank you. The thing is is that I've always been
told as I was growing up that it was a
(16:31):
horrible drug. It'll it'll do horrible things to you. And
then during college times, I watched all the college kids
in the late eighties early nineties doing mushrooms so they
can watch the stealing breathe and the walls move and
you know, and they just tripping out and have fun.
But you know, really it's it's an incredible healing tool
that I just I knew it would be, but I
(16:53):
didn't know the extent of it. And maybe, you know,
people learning more about it can help them on that journey.
Speaker 6 (17:01):
And that's the.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Tie in, I think to polyamory right there, the things
that we've been raised with and programmed with and everything,
and these healing journeys that we're wrong, which are major
themes in polyamory as well well.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Relationships themselves are set by a standard from previous families, people, friends,
and not anybody has it right, you know, we don't know.
Relationships are just as different as people's eye color, hair color,
(17:33):
skin color, face shapes, body shapes, because no relationship is
ever the same, and we are told that we are
meant to be in this very specific kind of relationship.
And I understand now that I don't know if polyamory
is for me. I don't know if monogami is for me.
(17:55):
I don't know. It's about figuring out who I am
and what works for me, and what works for you,
what works, what works for anyone. And I don't think
that we should be afraid or ashamed of discussing things
that make us happy or turns our life around, And
nor do I think that you know. Someone says to me, oh,
(18:18):
are you really into this polyamory stuff, and I said, no,
I'm into educating people on ways of having relationships that
suit them, what ever makes other people fucking happy. Lets go, well, I'm.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I'm going to say that unless you are consciously co
creating your relationships, however they are romantic or otherwise, then
you're just falling into some kind of default, you know,
based on your culture, your family, your religious upbringing, and
all of that is informing you unless you're actually taking
the time to think about it and consciously conscious of it.
(18:56):
So I'm happy that you came back to me to
join us and share about what has become the lifestyle
or call one of one of one of the terms
for it is the lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, so I think personally, lifestyle is a little bit
different lifestyle for me when I know what I know
about it is really about swinging sex clubs and really
just experimenting that way. I think polyamory and correct me
if I'm wrong. Jody feels more about a relationship and
(19:28):
a dynamic of a day to day lifestyle.
Speaker 6 (19:32):
I think that's right, and I think we're also all right.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
Lifestyle is kind of this antiquated, slash evolving term where
you suggest mean swinger, and people do use it more
broadly to describe ethical non monogamy or consensual non monogamy.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Some people prefer that term.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
But I think, yeah, I think that the lifestyle and
and that's that's merged with the scene and and all
these alternative lifestyles are kind of starting to melt together.
But yes, I agree, Christine. The term lifestyle is more
traditionally associated with swinging, and you know, polyamory is I
call it kind of a more connection based relationships, whereas
(20:14):
swinging is more, I don't know, more sexual based.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
I suppose I'd.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Say, I'd love to ask you about that, because I
know that we didn't really talk much about sex last time.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
You can really talk.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
About the specifics, and I know that in some polyamorous
relationship relationships you might not. You might include a partner
who is not a lover, who is not a sexual partner.
So why don't you share with us a little bit
about some of Like I've heard the term or the
phrase the way you do Polly may not be the
way anyone else does Polly, or some other version of that.
(20:48):
You know, so pomors relationships are different. How how might
you describe some of the different similarities that polyamorous relationships have?
So why don't you run with that?
Speaker 5 (21:00):
I think it's the similarities between polyamorous relationships is the connections.
It's it's it's holding space for multiple loves, it's it's.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
Maintaining more than one relationship with with somebody else. You know, man,
woman or otherwise.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
So I think I think that's I think that's the
common part of it. Now what's uncommon and polyamory kind
of falls into this ethical non monogamy category and within
my community here in Denver and others that I've explored.
You know, sometimes polyamorous people are swingers. Also sometimes they're
sex for it or sex positive, uh and sexual like
(21:39):
like I am. Actually I think I shared the last show,
I kind of began a swinger with my former spouse.
So there's so many different flavors in between and I
and and and and they're all different, and.
Speaker 6 (21:49):
They're all wonderful.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
But that that's that's that's the that's the bridge between
them all.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
Steve, I think is just holding space for multiple love.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
I've explained that as the type you know, holding space
like you would if you have if you have children,
if you have more than one child or family, who
you love.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
And what are some of the there's certain terms within
the realm of polyamory, like for the one kitchen table
polyamory or hierarchical polyamory, like what that refers to. Just
so people can kind of get an idea of some
of the models that people are exploring.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
Yeah, and I'm not a label expert, and I'll share
what my perspective is. And there's a listener out there
that might disagree, and I, you know, I'm.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
Just coming from where I come from.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
But I you throw out some really interesting terms, especially
kitchen table polyamory KTP or garden party polyamory, and that's
really refers to how everybody in the relationship interacts, and
everybody in the relationship is not just the people who
are directly into the relationship. My partners have metamors for example.
(22:56):
To introduce another other.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Term, Yeah, that's right, tell us what that is.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
Well, like my my primary partner, Deanna is a metamor
to Megan and Stephanie, my two other partners. So it's
the relationship that they have with other partners, and that
can look different.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
And you know, yep, I actually know a couple of
them that do not like each other or even have
anything to do with each other, and they're just all separate.
And then I think that several, like you know, get
to know each other have relationships as friends and you know,
like that, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
And everything's right every every way people are approaching it
to whatever feels good to them, is right, and my
my partners as relationships have evolved over time, Deanna and
and Megan have a very close friendship and relationship.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
Deanna's getting to know Stephanie better. They're getting to know
each other better.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
We are somewhere between kitchen table and garden party Paul Oh,
And just to explain those terms a little bit, the
reason we call kitchen table polyamory. That implies that we
could all sit around the kitchen table together and have
conversations and all be friendly with each other.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
Garden party polyamory.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
Is you know, maybe maybe we don't all sit around
the kitchen table together, but we see we see each
other at parties, and we're friendly and cordial with each other.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Can I can I define some talk about something really
quick here, because I think that this could pop into
a lot of people's minds like it did mine, and
I just want to address that. When you said the
kitchen table where you can all just kind of sit around,
I think a lot of people are under the impression
that you're just having orgies between you and your three girls,
And I mean, is it is I'm sure that's possible
(24:46):
in certain relationships, but in most I think that those
aren't even intermixed.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Am I correct, You're you're correct on both fronts. Sometimes
there are orgies between everybody.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I hear, well, a good orgy is a good orgy.
Reorganize them.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
Yeah, sometimes there is there is there is that that
that sexual aside to it. And then in other cases,
you're absolutely aready have friends in the polyamory community who
have relationships like you described, where the where the relationships
are are kept quite separate.
Speaker 6 (25:17):
And the one thing they do have in common that
they all know.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
About them they're all ethical, right, right, Some people prefer
you know, not to you know, don't ask, don't tell
type of HEAs for lack of a better phrase, there's
a lot of criticism around that phrase.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
But yeah, but there's something that I've come across and
working with some of the couples that I've worked with,
when there is that quality of don't ask, don't tell,
that's more like an open relationship versus polyamory almost implies
that there's a level and quality of communication between all
parties and a transparency about it that may or may
(25:52):
not be available in what's called an open relationship, where
you might have Hey, I don't really. I'm cool with
you going out and having other partners. I just don't
want to know about it. And I think that to me,
at least as a framework and to have some jargon
that gives us access to being able to talk about things,
is separate things a little bit, not always.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
Yeah, I think that's a great way to make it,
to think about it. I think that's right. I think
that's right.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
That's good. I like that. I have a couple of
questions for you that popped up to my head while
we were doing the last episode and we didn't get
to it, and I what kind of structured some stuff
for you? Like, how do polyamorous couples people define commitment?
Is it different from monogamous relationships? I mean, when you're
talking about committing yourself to a multitude of people, how,
(26:43):
how is that really structured to define? I mean, does
that make sense?
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Is that a I think I understand what you're asking
and I think it's defined is with a lot of
communication and agreement and openness. And that was the major
theme of our last conversation. Okay, And that's a major
theme I think of Hollyamory in general. And it's also
should be me and it is a major theme of
any kid, any kind of relationship and traditional relationships. And
I think that's something where your listeners, no matter where
(27:09):
they fall in the spectrum of of monogamy and monogamation
non monogamy, that they can we can all learn about
the importance of communication. So I my relationships with different
partners are we we we design them, Steve, we co
create them together, and they're they're all different. And yeah,
I have I've had conversations with some partners of what
(27:32):
what does it mean to call you my partner? Are
you a partner? Are you a girlfriend? Are you a
play partner? Are you a friends with benefits? These are
all types of things that we discussed. And I had
discussions with one partner where she says, I I need
a certain amount of time. I need we need to
see each other to really feel like we're loving and
supporting each other as partners.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
We need to see each other a certain amount.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
Of time, and and I and then and that kind
of varies, and then you know, I you know other
partners we don't necessarily the conversation is is different, but
at the end of the day, everything fits together.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
I want to I don't want to make it sound
like it's so easy.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Well, yeah, here's part of that that I'm curious about.
Can polyamorous relationships offer like more emotional support it differently
than a monogamous or is it just more emotionally complex
then you think that a monogamous relationship?
Speaker 6 (28:36):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Like the question is there. It's hard for me to
structure it in the way that I'm trying to that
I see it in my head sometimes, but do you
know what I'm trying to get at? Like that structure
between monogamous and polyamory, there's a lot of emotional and
tide into it. And when you get emotionally invested like
that and you're dividing that emotional connection between multiple people,
(29:00):
how does that? How does that jive? How does that work?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
I've had me to be very conscious and aware and
intentional about the support and attention that I give to
my partners. I have to really think about it's. You know,
my primary partner I shared in the last episode, she
lives very close. We spend a lot of time together,
and we give each other a lot of attention and support.
It It's it's kind of easy for us we're accessible
to each other, and I have to be conscious about
(29:26):
reaching out to my other partners and by asking them
how they're doing, you know, how they're I and I
literally ask them oftentimes how are you doing emotionally this week?
Speaker 6 (29:35):
If they're they're going through things?
Speaker 5 (29:38):
You know, you you you asked if is is it
emotionally complex or more emotionally supportive? I think everybody in
the community has different experiences. My experience has been that
has been more emotionally supportive we and which is really wonderful.
And you know, there's things I can talk I talk
about with I can talk to I think all my
partners about any anything.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
We we have a relationship.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
But there are certain things and certain ways that I
talk with some partners differently than others, just because they're
of their backgrounds and experiences.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Do you think that there's a more there's more of
a possibility of witnessing a burnout from juggling too many
dynamics and in different relations.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
I you know, when I was I kind of explored
where my edge was in polyamory and I had just
several months ago.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, because I can I can see it.
Speaker 6 (30:37):
I had I had four partners. There's four women in
my life who I heard.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
The number four in my head the minute you said that,
and I thought four was too much for him.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
It was it was hard, it was really difficult, and
I didn't and and the one relationship changed for other reasons,
you know, personal reasons, but but also I also thought
that I wasn't able to provide what my partners deserved
and expected with with with four people.
Speaker 6 (31:04):
And I kind of felt like that was maybe my edge.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
And I was just speaking with my partner Deanna, I
think last night about this where she's we communicate about
people who I'm interested. I've you, guys, I'm a total
love slot. I have crushing all over the place every
night of the week, and my sometimes it's so overwhelming.
And but she likes to check in with me, and
so what are you thinking, like, do you really do
(31:27):
you want to do you want this person as a partner?
And I say, you know, I and I and I've
shared with her, I've I've kind of defined for myself.
Speaker 6 (31:34):
I think I'm about it. And for the reasons I
just told you.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
Being able to provide what they deserve and expect. But
I do like to be able to leave open to
have dates and friendships and that sort of thing, in
addition to by partners who are committed to right.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I can imagine that it can really I mean, I'm
sure you have said you had a son, right.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
I have three kids. I have two three daughters and
a son.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Do you have children, you have family, you have partners,
you have you have life, you have friends a lot.
And then when you're emotionally, physically, mentally, all the leaves
and you're putting that into all these different people, I
can imagine that it can get very exhausting and time consuming.
(32:20):
At some point, do you find that you have to
take time for yourself even more so than you normally would,
or are you just like, fuck it, I'm just gonna
free love with all of them.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
I love time to myself, which may surprise people who
know me.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
People who know me think, Joe, I cannot believe you
go go go.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
You're doing this for work, You're involved with that convention,
You're doing this coaching over here, you're doing podcasts or
doing all these things.
Speaker 6 (32:45):
You have three partners.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
To me, it feels very natural. It feels very slowing.
To answer your question about about solo time. I don't
know if I describe myself in the last episode as
as solo Paul. My relationship with myself is really important.
My relationship with myself is the most important relationship. It
has to be, Yeah, and that helps me show.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
Up for the for the for my other relationships.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Well, your partners have to think it is too so
when you have a partner, because even monogamous people have
partners that are like, why aren't you with me every
minute of the day, Why aren't you spending every weekend
with me? Why are you going out camping with the guys?
Why wasn't I invited?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You know?
Speaker 3 (33:23):
And then it becomes even more so because now it's like, well,
you're with the other woman and I really needed you.
I mean, I can't even imagine what that feels like.
I mean, it's hard enough when you're just dating, and
you date you know, because you date with you know,
define your your people. It's the same kind of thing.
I think. It just can really pull you in all directions.
(33:44):
It's possible to really focus unless you take time for yourself.
Speaker 6 (33:48):
It does.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
And I know there's relationships out there where they some
some partners may hope for or expect some kind of
you know, equity of time and things like that.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
I'm I'm fortunate.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
Well it's intentional also, I was gonna say, I'm fortunate
where me and all my partners we're just really grateful
for the time that we can have together and for
the agreements that we had I or the agreements we've
made on what kind of time we need and expect.
So I've been really lucky that way. There's other relationships
out there, polyamics, relationships in my community and people I
know who it's it's it's not that simple, and it
(34:23):
is really difficult, and those.
Speaker 6 (34:26):
Feelings are are valid.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
We do we do have needs and I you know
I and it's uh, you know, a big part of
this lifestyle is learning things like you know, communicating your
needs and uh and and and and partners being compassionate
and graceful, grace giving towards that.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Yeah, question, Uh, what do you think some of the
big misconceptions are about the polyamorous lifestyle or community or relationships.
Speaker 6 (34:54):
This is this is such a great question.
Speaker 5 (34:57):
And before the last episode, and I'll try to think
of the ones that came to the top before the
last episode, I posted in several E M M Facebook groups.
Speaker 6 (35:06):
And that was one of the questions I posted. And
I'm going on this podcast what are you know?
Speaker 5 (35:11):
What are what do you think some of the misconceptions
are you know a lot of One of the big
misconceptions would would be be because I am polyamorous, I
am available.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Yeah, that you're willing to just have, you know, more
relationships with more people.
Speaker 6 (35:27):
That's right, thank you?
Speaker 3 (35:30):
What's that you can't get enough?
Speaker 5 (35:33):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (35:33):
You're just needing more and more and more women or
women need more more men. I think that's a big
miss and.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
I think that's where the term the lifestyle was conflated
with the kink media, s M community, UH, sex party community,
sex positive community. Like all of these different if we
were looking at a different ven diagram of all these
different circles, uh, they each have their own expression, but
there is possibly overlap even a monogamous monogamous world, that's right.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
This question is forming in my head and I can't
quite get like, do you think that people just look
at you in a way or guys especially and go oh,
or women think you know you're being selfish because you
need more than one partner? Do you think that that
is a big part of that. People are like, oh,
(36:25):
you just can't be satisfied with one woman? Why aren't
I enough for you?
Speaker 6 (36:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
How do you deal with that kind of thing.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
That one that one actually touches me? And I think
the answer is yes.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
I think there is this perception by some people who
feel like, you know, if if they're in a relationship
with me and I want to be in a relationship
with someone else, that they're not enough.
Speaker 6 (36:46):
And I think people knew or and exploring polyamory, like
one of my partners is has gone through that, and
you guys, that really affected my former marriage actually also
that was a major factor and a major theme. And
I just wish I could I wish I've told this.
I wish they could see into my heart to know
that that's not true. And that's just not how I
view things. It's not about wanting more and more or more.
(37:08):
It's about who I am. It's about who I really
am at my core. This is my identity.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
I as happy solo and alone as I am with
three partners, I promise you.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
So that's another that's another big misconception.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
I think one of the things that I think a
lot about it when I think, if this is something
for somebody, is how would you navigate like say, holidays,
family events, social situations when everyone understands and accepts Paula Amory.
But then again, who do you choose? What partner? What
(37:45):
do you do? Do you bring them all and be like, hey,
I'm you know, I got three women? You know what
I mean? It's like, how how does how does that
navigation between all that happen?
Speaker 5 (37:56):
That is a really great question, and it's really difficult,
and everybody approaches it differently. I have no spoken kind
of rule for that, and I've had conversations with my
partners about that before. My partners is relationships that they
have are ever evolving, like all of ours are, and
(38:16):
so they've gone through periods where we've been all together
and they've had primary partners, and sometimes they've had partners
where that they spend holiday time and family time together.
I feel really lucky to have been have had some
family events or group events here at the house, for example,
where all three of my partners are there.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Do they also bring their other partners? I mean? Is
it just like you know, it's kind of cool.
Speaker 6 (38:46):
It feels so good, it feels so magical and it
feels really great.
Speaker 5 (38:49):
There's also I've also have friends and people have been
partners with where it's been really difficult, where they've had
primary partners, where they've been in situations where they where
they can't spend holidays because of holidays are big because
of their partners' situation on the ender on their other end.
(39:10):
So there's a lot of feelings that come up with
that and a lot of difficulty, And it just comes
down to how you define your relationships and undergirding that
is that communication that we keep talking about.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
I do think communication might be the strongest factor or
key in well one in any relationship, like let's fucking
talk people, okay, But I think in this type of
situation it might require a lot more than your average
bear relationship, because I mean, think about it, You've got
(39:46):
a lot of feelings going on, You've got a lot
of dynamics, you've got a lot of different types of personalities,
and I don't know, it can be a lot. And
I think a lot of monogamous people are like, hell no,
it's hard have to keep up with one, you know,
much less more than one. That's that's it's a lot
of responsibility and it's a lot of work.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
I literally have a degree in communication.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
That I think you need to but I think you do.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
I was we're with this comedian at this event, and
she was and we got to spend some time with
her afterwards, and she said I and she was really
curious about us in our relationships, and Polyamory said, I
feel like, I feel like you need to have a
doctorate in communication, you know, to be successful at it.
And yeah, my parents said that degree wouldn't be worth anything,
but they know I put it to use.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
I think we're also we're in an interesting time where
relationship norms are more malleable.
Speaker 6 (40:44):
You know, these these these.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Relationship models have been going on for a long time.
People have been questioning the model of monogamy for a
long time, but it's now coming to the foreground and
it's more transparent where people are talking about different models
of relationship the same way we are the norms of
quote unquote air quotes here, norms about gender, norms about
(41:08):
sexual orientation. That is becoming more malleable. And I'm hoping
that the younger generations are actually more fluid, more open.
And actually this brings about a form of communication that
is much more complex, but much more inclusive and transparent.
(41:29):
But I am getting into a question.
Speaker 6 (41:31):
Here have problems.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Yes, really do you think if that's the case, and
maybe you don't agree with that, but if that's the case,
what do you think that people who aren't buying this,
they're like, oh my god, this is so outside the norm,
this is scary for me, or this is uncomfortable how
you can share? Because I'm sure you go to the
grocery store and you're with one partner and then you're
(41:54):
talking to the neighbor and say, oh, yeah, this is
my partner's own so and then you go the next
day and as, oh, this is my with a different
partner and they're like, wait a minute, Wait a minute,
I thought you were with you know, so I know.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
It's taking you're cheating, or yeah, I know.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
It challenges people outside of the conversation here. What do
you do about that? And what do you think people
who are polyamors should do to be more inclusive for
people this might be really uncomfortable. Yeah, let me address
reverse was that it was a very long winded question.
Speaker 5 (42:26):
Well, and let me address first too that I do
think that the younger generations are few relationships as more fluid.
I have friends and plate partners in their twenties and thirties,
and that is absolutely their attitude and approach, which is.
Speaker 6 (42:41):
Really wonderful to see.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
And I think we're kind of collecting all these viewpoints
under this alternative lifestyle kind of terminology, and I'm really
excited to see more of that community events. There's an
All Life Expo actually happening in Denver next January whose
purpose is to bring together all these different age groups
(43:02):
as well as groups of different types of relationships structors,
people who are polyamorous, and swingers and kinksters and fetishists
and queer and all of that. I also think, you know, Steve,
you mentioned there's there has been fluidity in relationships, and
I talked about the great example the gay community was
in teaching other alternative lifestyle people to be brave and
(43:23):
how to come out and everything. And they've also and
I'm not a spokesperson for them, and I certainly don't
want to be mistake in first speaking for all of them,
but I have had several conversations anecdotally where my gay
friends and in the gay community where they their relationships
are fluid. They just they we've given it a name now,
but they are very they have been very open, and
(43:45):
I think what it takes.
Speaker 6 (43:46):
I think what it takes to be able to have
these relationships. It takes work. It takes their work.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
Yes, Yes, and we've been really you know, I think
a lot of us have been programmed and programmed into
these in tremendous insecurities around relationships and whether or not
you choose non monogamy or not. I think, I hope,
I wish for everybody to take the opportunities to heal
are are wounded in our children. And I'm smiling, but
(44:16):
I'm really serious and I've I've done that, and you
see a lot of that work in this community. A
lot of therapists and coaches are focusing on it because
there's a lot of opportunity there.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
I think it takes a lot of real strong intention.
I think that you have to be very specific about
what your intentions are, and I think you know more
than anything. It takes being open, kind and completely understanding.
But I think the biggest key factor that I'm taking
(44:47):
beyond communication is an ability to set your ego and
like selfishness aside and real think about your partners in
your partner or whatever, and you know, focus on the
other's needs not just your own. And I think that
(45:10):
makes a big I personally. That's what I'm getting out
of it. That's that's what I see. Because I think
a lot of people would think that this was a
selfish thing. I think a lot of people would say
this is a selfish motherfucker who wants just to have
sex with a bunch of women and have his cake
and eat it too. But I really don't see that anymore.
(45:32):
I don't think that anymore anyway. I think maybe I
might have in a previous you know, time, in my
space my energy because I would go not satisfied with
one woman, what the fuck? But I honestly don't see that.
I see truly all my friends that I have become
really well acquainted with, they show me that they are
(45:55):
more loving, more respectful, more communication less, ego less. Yeah,
they're still drama because we're all fucking human. But I
really see a big shift in my own opinion of it,
and I truly hope that I've helped other people have
a shift, because I don't think there should be judgment
in anyone's relationships. It's not anybody else's business. What the
(46:18):
fuck we do? Yeah, let's focus on our own communication
with who we got and not worry about everybody else's.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
Oh come on, it's so much easier pass judgment on
others than to deal with myself.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Come on, that's right true that half the fucking world
does that, I swear to God exactly. I personally think
that we should have a communications classes in grade school,
in middle school, in high school. They should go all
the way up, and it should go with the age
instead of just having it communications in college. I think
that communications should start in grade school and work all
(46:53):
the way through.
Speaker 5 (46:53):
Christian I kind of joked about, you know, parents, other
people saying, oh, communications degree is worthless. I am so
proud of of of the work I did in my
communications course and the things I've learned, which is really
grounded in psychology, and I totally there's not enough of
it and we can all really benefit to learn more
about it at an earlier age.
Speaker 6 (47:11):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
I don't think that this world was would be as
divided as it is. I'm not saying that we should
be all topia and all think the same fucking way.
I'm not that's not me. I say, to each its own.
But I think the most important thing is that we
need to realize that communication opens the doors to understanding
(47:34):
for other people. And I don't get why we can't
just try to care and understand about others. I really
appreciate that you've come on here a couple times with us, Jody,
and really try to help us, help other people see
what this really is about, and that it's not just
some free for all sex you know, fiend who wants
(47:55):
to have a bunch of partners. And I really appreciate that,
you know, you've given this really beautiful feeling of you know,
this is just about love and communication and enjoying other people,
and I love that. So thank you for being here.
Speaker 6 (48:09):
I'm so glad to be here. Thank you very much.
Speaker 5 (48:11):
And appreciate listeners considering different viewpoints and perspectives.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Listen, it's not for everybody, and I'm not trying to
tell everybody it is, and I think that everybody should
find what works for them and go from there. Well,
we're out of time and my engineer is yelling at
me to go, so we gotta go. But thank you again, Jody.
(48:37):
There were questions and I'm sorry we did not get
to them, but this was so fascinating. Steve, love you.
Thank you so much for being here with me every week.
We're going to be back, same place, same time next week,
and until then, let's just keep this shit real. If
you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, like
(48:59):
and followow us on Instagram at fifty Shades of Underscore
Bullshit and Facebook at fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Thanks so much for listening, and we really hope to
see you again next week
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