August 14, 2025 • 49 mins
In Part 2 of Psychedelics – Legit Healing or Just Getting High, trauma-informed somatic practitioner Paul Antico shares how to prepare for a mushroom journey and the importance of aftercare and integration. Founder of Akasa Journeys, Paul has guided 150+ full-day psychedelic sessions, blending body-based therapies with deep emotional attunement to create safe, transformative experiences rooted in the body’s innate intelligence.
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Fifty Shades of Bullshit is broadcast live Thursdays at 4PM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Fifty Shades of Bullshit TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Fifty Shades of Bullshit Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following show contains adult content. It's not our intent
to offend anyone, but we want to inform you that
if you are a child under the age of eighteen
or get offended easily, this next show may not be
for you. The content, opinions, and subject matter of these
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(00:22):
to those show hosts.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you for listening, hy everyone, and welcome to fifty
Shades of Bullshit. I'm your host, Christine Lalan and this
is the podcast where we uncover the truth about online dating.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Now let's begin.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hey everyone, I'm Christine and this is fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Thanks for joining us again today. As you see, I
am by myself at the moment only because Steve was
unable to join us today. And I have a very
special guest that I'm going to bring on now. So
his name is Paul Antico. He is actually the brother
(01:06):
of a very good friend of mine. We've been friends
for fourteen years and I met Paul through Denise. And
let me tell you a little about Paul. And why
He's here today. Today is part two of our Psychedelic
Is it Medicine or is it just getting High? Paul
is a trauma informed somatic practitioner and facilitator with a
(01:29):
focus on developmental attachment and ancestral trauma. He works with
a range of modalities including Rosen method, body work and movement,
compassionate injury, oh inquiry, sorry medicine, dance, and the Polyvagle
theory based safe and sound and rest and restore protocol.
(01:50):
Paul is also trained in psychedelic somatic interactional psychotherapy is
called PSIP, which he has modified in all as a
distinct body based therapeutic option called regional somatic tuning. He
has also founded in twenty eighteen Acosa Journeys. He has
(02:11):
guided more than one hundred and fifty full day psychedelic journeys,
offering individualized in depth support, rooted in care, attunement and
embodied presence. His work emphasis co creation, emotional safety, and
the innate intelligence of the body, whether or not psychedelics
(02:32):
are part of the process. So Paul also remains an
active contributor to the psychedelic community, serving as an integration circle,
facilitator and former managing director of Psychedeia, he might have
to correct that integration a nonprofit offering education and support
(02:53):
around psychedelic killing. Let's bring Paul on and.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
He can tell me if I said that badly. Hey, Paul,
thanks great to see you. You are welcome.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
You know what's crazy is that the second journey that
I had the very next day, I was really struggling
with it, and I had a very good friend who
was having a birthday party.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
And though I was exhausted.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
From the event of a whole week of events that
I did for my new job, I knew something was
calling me to go. Like I kept thinking, I'm too tired.
I'm sure she'll understand, and I just kept getting this
feeling that I needed to be there. And when you
(03:42):
walked in the door, Pall, I immediately knew the reason why
I needed to be there, because after I talked to
you about my second, my first and second journey with
the psychedelics, you were able to help me process that
day so much smoother and more easier than I was
(04:03):
doing on my own, just being able to communicate with
you and your different way of having that insight. So
first I want to say thank you, because I really
don't think I could have continued to handle it on
my own.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
So thank you for that.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Thank you so much for trusting me with that, and
it's my pleasure. But what I got to do support
people on their journeys, right however that shows up, Well, you.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Are really good at showing up.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And you know, I just know that from you know,
knowing you throughout these last fourteen years through Denise, you know,
just being at all the family functions and parties, you know,
but also as a you know, a person who helps
people with the facilitating of their psychedelic journey. I think
(04:54):
this is just a really incredible path that you've gone
on and I and I love it, and I'm really
grateful you could be here today. So tell us more
about what it's like to be a facilitator. But also
I really want to talk today about the actual journey,
talking about how to prepare, what's important to know, and
(05:17):
why you should have a facilitator when you're starting out
on this journey, because I should have and did not,
and now I know I should, so that'll change.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
But I do want to go.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Through the process, the steps of before, during, and after
and why these things are really important.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So before the journey, the thing that I like to
start with with every single person is why you want
to do this? What is your intention? Is another way
to say that what draws you the psychedelics or whatever
it is. You know, it doesn't even have to be psychedelics.
What is it that you're trying to accomplish? And I
try and focus always, you know, that is like the
(05:57):
sort of the guiding light and everything tailored to that.
So it depends on what someone's purpose is, because you
can have a more like I'd like to have a
mystical experience, you know, I'd like to work on my trauma,
or you know, some people just want to do things
like in the business community, maybe I want to get
(06:17):
more creative or something like that. So there's a lot
of different reasons and then you know, I would approach
it differently. And one thing that's really interesting is that
no matter what the reason is that you say, it
doesn't mean your trauma is not going to come like perking.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Up, Hell, yeah, you know, I was just going to
ask you that.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I was going to say, how often is it really though,
when we set an intention, that that intention is actually
what is met that that it's not something else that
comes through that's needed that we don't even realize.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Yeah, exactly. You know, you can have your intention and
then ideally in the in the in the session, you
let go of that and if you're having a hard time,
you can always bring that back as an anchor. This
is why I'm doing this. But in general, you want
to let it go. And your attention may or may
not be directly realized, or it's often realized, but in
(07:12):
a maybe more indirect way. So as people you probably heard,
you know, people say you don't get what you want,
you get what you need. And in a you know,
it's a little vague that kind of a statement, because well,
you could say that about anything that happens. Well, that's
what you need. And so I like to be a
little more I don't know, if thoughtful about it, and
(07:34):
it's like, whatever happens, you want to be able to
relate it to your life somehow and how does it
fit in it, because it might show you what gets
in the way of your intention, rather than here it is,
we're going to give you, you know, a taste of it.
We're going to give you instead a taste of what's
blocking it.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Great.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So when you prepare people to do this type of journey,
what is there some major steps that they should be taking.
Are there things that you discuss like ahead of time,
so you know what a potency or what kind of
thing to do.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Is this a thing that you have to do first?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah, I always like to have at least one pre
session I call it before the session, where you know,
we talk a lot about some of its logistics, which
is getting into well, there's a lot of music playlist choices.
We definitely talk about dosage, which has a lot to
do with what their intention is, how much experience, if any,
they've had with psychedelics, their own comfort level, you know,
(08:36):
a sense that I get from talking to them as
far as the dose, and then you know it's really
playing with their intention a lot. And so what I
like to do, well, first of all, there's a bit
of an education involved.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
I tell people that what you're doing in a sense
is you're opening the locked door of your unconscious right
get at some of the stuff that's been difficult to
get at otherwise. And not that you can't get it
at it other ways, but it's a little bit more
you know, facilitated faster.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
I see that.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
But it's like, imagine you have this locked closet, like
I got to get in here, and I lost the
key or something, and so you get in there finally
with the psychedelic key. Let's say, now you have to
deal with everything that's in there. And people don't think
about that as much. It's like, I just want open
the door and it'll all know. You actually don't want
to open the door too fast either, because then everything
(09:32):
that's pouring out and it's too much, too fast, your
overwhelming system completely.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So yeah, I learned that I'm a balls to the wall,
you know, go big or go home kind of goal.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
And I went big.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And because I thought, after three and a half years,
almost four years now of working on myself and growing
to love myself and all these amazing things that I've
done in my healing journey, I thought that this would
be a cakewalk.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
I really did.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I thought it'd be a cakewalk. I thought I'd open
that door and cleaned out everything. But I didn't know
that there was a false panel in the back of
my closet and then it.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Was a completely different looking closet. I don't know. That
was wild for me.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
It's really we have to think of it in terms
also of how did we get those feelings of lack
of self work, and that you know, speaks to attachment
and trauma and all of our early childhood, and so
we have to respect that. You know. It's like we
want to honor our own wounds, and so part of
that is to realize also how long were we in
(10:38):
that environment where we were getting that message. It's a
long time. It's very absorbed and it's not like a
simple okay, one second journat in your hall. You know,
that would be awfully nice because you wouldn't it. I'd
be enlightened a few times if that was the case,
but not truly. So so that's a piece of the
(11:01):
puzzle where we, you know, we underestimate. You know a
lot of people say, well, I've already worked through that,
and then it's a psychedelic journey or something will happen
and they'll be like, oh, I guess I didn't completely
work through that exactly.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
So it's good to have like a respect is what
I'd like to call it, for your own process, for
where you are, for where you came from, and for
the psychedelic which can you know, I can say could
open up too much too fast.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
That's where some people get destabilized. You know, they're like,
you know, everything's not you know, fitting well anymore.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Well.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I think that I didn't realize that there were layers,
like like your skin, your body has layers to it.
You know, there's layers to the skin, the fat, the muscle,
you know, the tendons and the bone. I just thought
that my brain, you know, the healing was just like, Oh,
I've done the work, I'm doing the healing, I'm growing,
(11:53):
I'm doing great things.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
I just thought that that was it.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I didn't realize that there really is a more to
trauma that there is, And I guess I probably wouldn't
have gone into it the way that I had. If
I'd had that kind of consultation with somebody, I think that,
you know, I would have handled it a little differently, obviously,
But you know what, I did it the way I
(12:18):
did it, and I am very proud of how I
am now after it. You know, the the enlightenment that
I've been getting that the changes in my life that
has been happening are amazing. But I do think that
it should have been done a different way and I
know that well.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
It definitely opens you up. And one of the things
that can be very helpful, which is what you know
you're talking about. Even if you have a journey that's
a little you know too much, maybe having good processing
available afterward can really make a difference. So if someone's
just left to spiral out and continue, that's how things
(12:58):
go off the rails further. So that's an important piece.
You know what people call loosely integration.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Integration, you know it For me it was I was
doing the same methods that I had done the previous
time the week before for the integration, but the problem
was is that deeper, different trauma based things were coming out,
and like we had talked about, I didn't know how
to process it properly. You coming at it at a
(13:28):
different angle than I could see it really helped flip that.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Narrative for me.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Yeah, thank you. It's the perspective, you know, a lot
of it is because we can get trapped in our
own It's like when we're stuck in our own stuff
and we're projecting onto other people or whatever, we don't
have the viewpoint advantage. So that's part of what someone
can bring that's you know, experience with these kinds of well,
(13:54):
essentially it's just you know, the the machinations of our
mind and how does our mind work, and tweaking and
going off on this direction of that direction, and having
a sense of that because psychedelics just stir it all up.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Psychedelics have been called non specific amplifiers of what's already there,
so that means whatever's there, it just gets amplified. It's
not like psychedelics will magically change your point of view entirely,
because there's a lot of no.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I think that it has kind of changed my point
of view on quite a bit of things, not like dramatically,
like I think you're saying, like black and White, that
I've completely flipped the switch, but I see things perspectively
different than I've ever seen them before. I think that
after the second one, I was scared and I was like,
(14:51):
I don't know if I can fucking do this again.
But now looking back at it and knowing where I
can go now, I'm actually curious to see if anything
else does come up that I that I think is
all acknowledged.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Also, the second time wasn't as crazy as the first
time though, it was pretty fucking heavy, but I do
see why integration is super important. I would like to
go back a little and because a lot of our
listeners may not have ever done anything like this before,
I'd love it if you could kind of paint the
picture for us of what it looks like and the
(15:32):
actual physical doing the mushrooms with a facilitator. Like, some
people are afraid to do it because they don't know
what it's going to be like. And I'm curious if
you could tell us a little bit of what it's
like for people to do that.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Well, it's hard to describe the actual internal experience.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Part, not the internal maybe the externals.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
I can talk around it though. So Yeah, there's something
that I like to call the four pillars of psychedelic facilitation,
which is, you know, from the facilitator's point of view,
what does a facilitator bring you know. So one of
those is the somatic piece, which is the body based piece.
(16:14):
I want to have a because you know, all of
our the saying our issues are in our tissues. It's
like where do we hold those things? It's like we
have a felt sense that we're no good, let's say,
or we have a felt sense that we are you know,
that we are good people, and that is the stuff
that can show up when negativity shows up. What is
(16:36):
that It's a felt sense in the body. It's not
like a mental thing. It was just a mental thing.
We could just think our way out of it, and
it doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
You know, it's interesting that you say that because now
I think about being a teenager and at a certain
age I started developing back problems where I don't know why.
I never could remember or figure out why. And I
(17:04):
realized as you were talking that I started developing pains
in my back because I was holding my trauma in
my back right, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And uh yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Mean that's the whole sort of one of the main
pieces of Rose and Method bodywork that I do is
working with chronic muscular tension that comes from our unconscious
things and where do we store those things in the body?
Just how can we help, you know, release that tension
which you know restricting us. Literally it can restrict our
(17:37):
breath so that we're taking smaller breaths than we could
otherwise take. And you think about breathing. When you're taking
a full breath, you're literally taking up more space. You
feel like, you know, a lot of us want to hide.
Certainly in my early younger days, I totally was like
wanting to hide, like how how small? How invisible? Can
(17:58):
I be?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Small?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Can I be? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
So a lot of us are you have been in
that situation, and so how do we learn that it's
okay to take up space, it's okay to be in
the world. And so there's a physiological level part of it,
which is the rosa, So that the somatic piece is
from a facilitation point of view. You want to be
able to have that you know enough of that knowledge
to help clients as they're going along. The trauma and
(18:24):
form piece is the therapeutic piece, and that's where you
want to if someone comes up, like someone once in
a session said to me, you know you're here to
help me, right, And they also said, I'm making you
work too hard, And so recognize that that is a
statement that's saying I don't feel like I'm worth helping,
(18:48):
I'm putting you out too much.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Is this before they started or during a lot of
things come out that I didn't realize that I was
saying too.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
I wish that I had recorded it. Quite frankly.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Well, the thing that's nice about that is when you
have someone that recognizes what's going on, they can respond
appropriately like, oh, no, you know, I'm here because I
want to support you. You deserve the support, and hearing
something like that, particularly under the influence of a psychedelic
can really get in there and make people take a
(19:24):
real pause because it's like, Wow, they've never heard that
in their lives and they're like, what, someone really, you know,
I'm not a burden to somebody, you know. So it's
shifted noticing those subtle things to be able to sort
of loosely present the person of another way, a reflection
that they are worth something, they are valued, they can
(19:47):
take up space, it's they're not a burden all those things.
So that's the trauma piece.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Do you find that when you're in the middle of
helping somebody through this type of journey that they develop
physical pains throughout it that weren't typically there before?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Because I experienced that my first time.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
You can you can a lot of things can show up,
So it's a little bit you just have to deal
with things as they come up. But yeah, a lot
of things can come up. A lot of things we
do for distraction. You know, it's too much. So it's
back and forth with that. You just kind of have
to work with whatever showing up with the person. The
(20:30):
other thing moving on is the personal psychedelic experience. The
facilitator ideally knows the territory. Yeah, there's a lot of
evil that are. You know, it's a bit of an
argument in the therapeutic community. Maybe we don't need to
have done psychedelics to support people, you.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Know, No, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I kind of like the idea that somebody knows exactly
what I'm going through and the process of it and why.
I'm not sure I would trust somebody who has never
experienced it and done the work themselves, because I personally
think you need to do the work yourself to understand that.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
That's my own opinion, though I'm definitely in that camp.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
So just to note that, you know, that's one piece.
And then the last piece that I think is important
for facilitators anyway, is to have the trans personal piece.
And another way to say that is the nondual reality.
That's when you start getting into the mystical realms and
all is one. What does that literally mean? And how
might that show up in someone's description of what's going on,
(21:32):
And to be able to recognize and work talk that
language as well, so it all kind of weaves together,
you know, all these different pieces so that you can
respond appropriately to what someone is saying, because they might
throw in a bit of transpersonal, a bit of somatic,
a bit of some trauma thing, and it's all kind
of jumbled up. So you got to be able to ideally,
(21:54):
you know, respond appropriately to cover what may seem like contradictions, right, well,
really not it.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
You know, it's crazy what the mind does too, because
you know, I could I didn't see any kind of
like weird things that were like breathing or moving or whatever.
Everything was subconscious in my brain, and so I was
seeing things inside of my head in my third eye,
(22:26):
not physical because I kept my eyes closed, because every
time I open my eyes, I would literally see dark entities.
So I've closed my eyes and I would fucking still
see the dark entities, but this time they were in
my brain and not in my eyesight, So I could
handle that a little bit better knowing they weren't physically there,
(22:46):
you know what I mean. So I was able to
handle it a little better because it was in my
head and I knew it was the battles inside my
head and not physical.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Right now, that was a good place in this and
SA that some people could get a little further out
to where they can't separate that and they do feel
that it's something outside themselves completely, and there's a whole discussion.
Some people say there really are things outside and some
people say, you know they're not, and you know, rather
than worry about that argument because from a non dual
(23:19):
perspective doesn't even hold up. You know, if if we're
all one, well, then what's inside is outside and what's
outside is inside. So it's right, irrelevant discussion in that sense,
But how do you deal with it as the important part?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And I think that someone like say myself, who happens
to have certain type of abilities where I see here,
think feel things on a different level than other people
because I tend to be a little bit more psychic
mediumsh kind of thing, so I do see and hear
other things that are just on the other side of
(23:55):
some thin veil or whatever. And I think that I
was able to see a more clear but it was
none of the good stuff. It was all the dark,
the dark shit, So that was better for me to
keep my eyes closed and deal with it here than here.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Also, the value, getting back to one of the other
points you mentioned earlier, the value of having a sitter there.
If nothing else, the sitter can just be sort of
a a support that can help you go through it.
You know, like I'm with you, I've got your hand
under and so yeah, you can you can handle it,
(24:34):
you know, I can help that. That's part of the problem.
We get into these states and then we're like, oh
my god, I'm also I have nothing, you know, I'm
going to lose it. And so instead, if you have
someone there that's very supportive with that, you know that
you can face It's kind of like this gets back
to attachment theory. When we're young, one of the things
(24:57):
we need to learn is that when we have big emotion,
our parent ideally is holding us and they're not upset.
So we learned that we can have those big emotions
and we can calm down. It's like it's through our
caregiver relationships that ideally are good ones that can give
(25:17):
us that sense, that sense that we can't handle things
that we can and so journey you know, we're kind
of re enacting in a sense. They call it earned attachment,
you know in the therapeutic language, where you can get
that same sense of attachment through your therapist or you know, facilitator.
(25:38):
If you're having that kind of an experience. It all
depends on what's coming up right, right, right, so that
you can handle things anyway.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, I will say that I was lucky I did
have Christian there and he was on on a journey too.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
But this is the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
In the very beginning, I could tell that shit was
going down fast and then it is going to be crazy.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
And the minute it hit me and I knew it.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Was going to be crazy, I just kept saying to him,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm afraid I'm going to ruin
your journey because this one is going to be fucking
insane and I don't know if I can handle it
by myself, And he just kept saying, no, it's okay,
I'm here for you, I'm here for you. And the
only reason why I trusted him is because he knows
(26:25):
literally everything about my trauma, like every fucking detail of
my trauma, and so I felt comfortable with whatever would
come out of my mouth.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
And.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
About thirty minutes into my bad, fucking craziness, he literally said, hey,
after I'd said for the hundredth time, I'm sorry, I'm
ruining your journey, and he said, listen, I just just
realized that my journey is here to support your journey.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
That is it.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And he was there to support my journey both times.
The second time I was a little more eard with him.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Then the first time. But we did it, and we
got through it, and you know.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
It was just the emotions that I was feeling through
what I was experiencing, not from something he was or
wasn't doing. But I think that if he had known
how to be a facilitator, or if I had actually
been with the facilitator, I think the journey could have
been a little less traumatic or a little less crazy
for me to process. In the end, I got there,
(27:29):
thank goodness, but it would have been better.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
It sounds like he was on the right track though,
by making it clear that you know, you're not ruining
his trip. You know that's part of the our own
self worth situation. I don't deserve the help, you know,
I'm ruining everyone else's thing. As if you don't count
you know you do count well.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I felt bad because I didn't know what he was
going through, and I kept saying to him, what are
you experiencing?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Are you feeling the same things I am?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Like?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
No, I said, what are you feeling? He goes nothing,
and what do you mean fucking nothing?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
What do you mean nothing?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
And he said, actually, I feel like I'm outside of
my body watching us. And he said, so I'm able
to observe this differently and I'm here to support you.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
And that's when he said that.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Then I was like, okay, I can accept this because
I need it.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Okay, interesting, Yeah, yeah, you know, whenever I facilitate, I'm
never under the influence, you know, I never.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah right right right?
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Nor should you be.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Yeah, that's that's my philosophy.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
We were just friends having fun.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I didn't know I was going to take some fucking
wack adoodle thing to hell, right.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Yeah. So getting back to your other point is what
is it like, you know, as as someone taking the journey? Now,
it depends on how you know. Like I have a
whole little thing that I go through with people. When
I start, I do like a little ritual the beginning
where I call in the seven directions I call in,
(29:06):
and I don't actually say call in when I'm doing it.
I like to say tune in because they're the energies
are always there, and I like to point that out.
It's like people think, or we're going to call them in,
they're you know, they're over across the street. Maybe let's
call them in. Well, they're already here always, They're always
with us. So it's tuning in the energy. So the
(29:28):
seven directions.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Making yourself aware that that they're.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yes, is that what you're saying, Okay, yep, yeah, they're
already here. We're kind of acknowledging okay. So the directions
and the qualities associated with the seven directions, and that's
kind of my own it's kind of my own blend.
The ritual is kind of my own blend of a
number of different things traditions, because it's not not all
one specific thing. From there, I like to tune into
(29:56):
our innate healing intelligence, which you've probably heard about artist psychedelics.
They talk about it, and that can be a little
vague and some people take issue with that, but I
think of it very concretely, like what grows your hair,
what grows your nails? How does your body know how
to grow? That's that's intelligent, and so that's part of
(30:16):
our you know. It's like when you cut your finger,
your body knows how to heal, and we help a
band aid or whatever, but the body is the one
that does the actual healing. So we're tuning into that
part of ourselves that, given you know, good conditions the ground,
to reorient and put ourselves more together, become more integrated
(30:37):
in a sense. So then I also call in and
tune into the ancestors. And I love to talk about
ancestors in this interesting way. It's like we're trying to
clear our trauma. Well, our ancestors have the trauma too.
That's why we have because they didn't clear it. I
like to say our ancestors are rooting for us, because
(31:00):
if we clear it, it's going to clear it up
and down the line, you know, in that trans personal sense,
everything is happening now. There's no past, no future, nothing
now now it So if we clear it, that's it.
It's like, so it's a really nice, you know, kind
of poetic way to feel more supported more, you know,
(31:21):
like everyone's there, Like, oh.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Do you think when people go in to do this
with you. Are they sitting down in like a recliner?
Are they laying down on something? Is it pillows? Is
it setting? You know like lights and music? I mean
what is what is the physicality of it like for people?
Speaker 4 (31:42):
So that's something that we go over at the precession
as to where do they want to do it? Because
when I work with people, I go to them. I
don't have them come to me. And I always find
it's better because people feel more safe in their own
environment and they don't have to go anywhere at the end,
you know, who wants to get to an uber or
get picked up or you know, change the whole vibe?
(32:03):
You know, it's like, let's just would.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
Right.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
So that's one thing I talk about is like, so
do you want I think it's better for people to
generally lie down, you know, maybe propped up a little
bit on top. But however, someone's comfortable. So my big
rule is what makes you feel safer? That's the big criteria.
Do you feel safer in this room or that room?
(32:29):
Do you feel safer on this couch or in your
own room on the bed? Do you feel safer on
the floor? Where is it? And I'll ask them to
kind of feel into that and we can always shift
if you know, if they're not feeling comfortable one spot.
But most people are on a couch or or on
a bed propped up a little bit, and you know,
(32:50):
it's very comfortable. Blankets are handy and nearby, and sometimes
a weighted blanket, you know, spends on the person, you know,
which is one of the there's what I call the
five pillars of psychedelic journeys, and so one of those
is what you're talking about, what we're talking about right now.
Setting that's the actual environment, and so that is the house,
(33:13):
the location, you know. One of the things I have
people do is create an energetic safe space the day
of which is where you're visualizing a white sphere that's
around your entire space, like your whole house or your
whole apartment or whatever it is. Because we have the
physical safe space where we're actually physically in, and then
we have the energetic version with that imagined white sphere
(33:37):
covering all of us, so really doubly telling ourselves physiologically, somatically, energetically,
you're safe whatever. All of you is welcome here. Another
thing I like to say, all of you. I like
that dark parts, the light parts everything, so, you know,
because we don't want to. It's like our parents said, well,
(33:59):
you can be nice, but if you're mad, you're gonna
have to go to your room. You know that's that's
not accepting all of your parts.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
When you find that, you know you're going through a
session with somebody when they're going through kind of a
mental and emotional purge, is what I felt like. Do
you find that a lot of people also physically purge?
Because I experienced that the first time, not the second time,
but the first time. I had a lot of physical
(34:31):
purging during.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
It first hour, actually throwing up.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Oh, throwing up, having to peel a lot, having to
shake my pants, though I did not shake my pants.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Okay, that's that clear.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I had to purge like if for me, Paul, the
first one was a mental battle with dark entities, and
it started with myself. Then it went my ancestral I
cleared my ancestral path.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Then it went.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
From that to my kids, and the kids and then
everybody around them who who were associated in their lives.
I can mentally do that. Then it went to my friends.
I mentally verbally would say, oh, it's Angela's turned out,
and then I would purge there clear theirs. And I
did this for like six hours, and after every single
(35:26):
healing purging, I had to purge after everyone.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
It was wild.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
It was almost like I absorbed it and then I
was just getting rid of it.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Right. That's a lot to go through with all of that,
So yeah, it depends on Again, someone's going through something
like that, you know, My approach is how can I
support them?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You know?
Speaker 4 (35:49):
And if you're kind of feeling into everyone else and
sort of sounds like you're trying to clear some of
their energy, is that something that you wanted to do
in this journey? You know? And what was it that was,
you know, kind of directing you in that direction as
opposed to do with yourself. These are just questions that think, yeah,
you know.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, for me, I kept hearing that you're a healer.
I said, why is this happening? You're a healer? I
kept saying why, and you're a healing And I could
visually in my head understand that once I cleared everything
from my space, everybody else's energy is still coming into mind,
and it felt like I needed to go through and
(36:32):
clear out everybody's darkness demons negative energy that was still
attached to them, so that it would not interfere with
my clear space. So all the people that were intimately
close to me, kids, family, friends, whatever, business acquaintances, I
(36:53):
was doing that so that it wouldn't come back onto
me again.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Does that make sense.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I needed to clear the whole path. Yeah, that's that's
where my head went.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Anyway, It's an interesting place, So that would be something
that would be well worth exploring a lot in integration
because there's a lot of directions you could go with
that specific thing. Was it a distraction more from deeper
trauma that you had to go to outside? Could have
been that? You know, I just felt a way to
handle that.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
I just felt like I was so cleared out and
there was still a lot of time that I was
still going to be handling this drug or this medication
or this you know, psychedelic moment. For me, it just
seemed like the natural step to do. It just was
something that I needed to do. It was something that
(37:45):
I needed to do for myself as well as the other.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
People in my life. And I've always.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Felt like I'm a little bit of a healer. Anyway
I can remove energies. I can physically touch somebody that's
hurting in some way and it'll lessen the pain.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
It's just something I've been able to do for a
long time. I have never really explored it, but I
felt like in this it was showing me.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Yeah, I'm going to say that could be part of
it as well, showing you the process and sort of
validating in a sense. And then also it could also
be showing you that it can be maybe there's another
way to do it where you're not having to urge
so much.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
It could be interested.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Something about Rose and method body work has this way
of talking about it where when you're working on someone,
if you're doing it, you know, I want to say
in tune, you don't need to like shake off our
bad energy because you're both being nurtured. It's not like
I've got your bad juju and now I have to
(38:54):
get rid of it. Because in a sense, if I'm
a healer and I'm going up to you and saying, well,
I just don't want to get your bat ud, I mean.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
That's what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
Yes, like that, I know to me, I'm just you know,
exaggerating to make that point. But it's like, uh, you know,
you're not going to feel as comfortable about because I'm
already saying, oh, you've got this stuff. It's more like,
you know, I'm going to be able to nurture both
of us through this process, not just so you know,
(39:29):
I'm always a little leery of some of that kind
of thinking of it.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
I don't know, it just felt like it was something
I was destined to do if if I was in
this position and I had done the work for myself
and my ancestors and my children, It's like, you know,
I want to have a better relationship with all these
people in my life.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
So I like was going to town.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
Right right, it sounds great really, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
So we only have like seven minutes left, which is crazy.
Time goes wy fast. But I want to talk about
the integration the day after or that, you know afterwards.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
How does that look?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Well? I can look a lot of different ways, and
I think I think one of the big things is
everyone talks about integration and like what is it? It's
you know, the standard quote psychedelic definition is you know,
and I'll just read it here because it's it's just
like so common. It's the successful embodiment of one's into
(40:37):
one's life, of the spiritual psychological insights, emotions, and sensations
and visions received during psychedelic journeys to help us support
our healing, growth and well being. So it's the embodiment
of whatever we've learned, essentially through however they came. And
that's sort of your standard psychedelic definition. You know, how
do we take the integrate what we saw and felt
(41:01):
into our day to day live. Well, that's pretty vague,
I think. Yeah, you know, it's like, well, okay, a
lot of things, you know, it went advises, like journaling
and being some meditation and all of that kind of thing.
So I like to describe it also as integrating shadow
parts into our selves such that more choices and feelings
(41:25):
are available to us. And so what does that mean?
The shadow parts are the parts that we don't know
so well, that's like behind the locked door. And so
once we acknowledge them and then and then we're comfortable
with them. Let's say we're afraid to cry, so then
we learn that it's okay to cry, and now that's
(41:45):
in our repertoire. Before we always avoided crying, and now
it's okay to cry. So we're actually bigger because we
have more choice, more emotions available, and we're more integrated
because that emotion is now integrated into us, whereas before
it was kind of disowned on the side. So integration
(42:05):
is like getting bigger embodying our shadow parts. And there's
a really great, great quote from Dan Siegel where he
describes it really well, and he's not relating to psychedelics,
but it's the same thing. The movement toward well being
is a movement toward integration. As integration is achieved across
(42:26):
the numerous dimensions of living, a sense of the unity
of being is revealed interesting, and so that's you know,
that's a really great summation of integration, whether it's psychedelic
or not. And so psychedelics you're just applying a little
more specifically in the psychedelic context. If you're in a
therapy session, you'd say, well, integrating the therapy session, But
(42:49):
it's all the same being ultimately.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Not you know, I've been through a lot of different
types of therapy and not one of them ever tried
to inter great any of that shit. Yeah, well you
just go home and try to process it on your
own and all you've done is talk about it, So
it doesn't really right, that doesn't make sense. But in
this in this world where you're really getting deep and
(43:16):
really opening up some things that you know that your
mind is letting go of or exposing to you, integration
just really makes sense at always, I mean even with therapy.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Yeah, And another way to put it is when your
internal and external parts are in integrity with each other,
Like what you're feeling is what you're showing, and what
you're showing is what you're feeling, as opposed to.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Pretending that you're better or you're happy when you're not
or right.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Yeah, when our outside expression matches our internal feelings. So
that's another way to talk about integration. There's a lot
of you know, and psychedelics can certainly help with that process,
but that's you know again, psychedelics are just a the goal.
I like to say, the healing is the star, not
the psychedelics. A lot of people get too carried away.
(44:08):
The psychedelics is the star, it's going to do it
all army, No, sorry, The healing is the star. The
psychedelic is a tool towards that, And there there's a
lot of tools, and that's just one tool.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Yeah, I get that. I didn't know it that way
when I went into it. I see that now. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
You say that that the healing is the star, that
that is the core of it all. I like that
there are different tools, but this tool is actually quite fascinating.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Yeah it is. It's one other thing I like to
make in terms of this process. How we go about
healing is the healing. So how do we treat ourselves
on this journey? How are we trying to blast ourselves
with dynamite and take like the biggest dose possible, or
psychedelics whatever, go through some intense therapy that's really torturous,
(45:05):
like throwing yourself in the deep end of the pool
when you can't swim and saying swim or die. Oh
that's traumatic.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
It is how we are.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
If we can be tender toward ourselves, we be compassionate
toward ourselves through the process, honor our fears. Say okay,
I'm too afraid to do this right now, that's okay.
Can we honor that we can treat That's the healing,
like treating ourselves with the kindness that we didn't often get.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
I love that Yeah, Actually that resonates very strongly in me.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, I think my brain needs to process that. But
that really resonated in my brain. That made a lot
of sense that I never thought about it that way.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Interesting. I like that.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Yeah, I haven't heard a lot of people say that,
but that's, you know, just from my own experience over
you know, a fairly long time of my own healing
and feeling into different modalities, methods, some that are a
little harsher than others. You know, it's like this whole
tough love thing.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
No, I think I think that I've always felt like,
especially over this last four years, that I just needed
to hurry up and get better, you know, just heal
my fucking self, do it.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
And I've not been kind at all.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
And then here I'm thinking, I'm just going to take
these psychedelics. It's going to clear out the last of
the cob webs, and I'm going to be just fine.
And I wasn't kind to myself there either. And I'm
finding that the more I'm trying to be gentle and
kinder to myself, the more of the world tries to
be harsher and meaner to me.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
That's my own you know, bullshit that's running around in
my head these days. But it's been a little challenging,
so I don't know.
Speaker 4 (47:03):
Maybe if you're feeling kinder towards yourself, you're feeling the
world is instead being harsher yep, Well, how can you
be towards that, you know, toward the harshness of the world,
you know, because things don't just shift immediately anyway. It's like,
and are we really being kind to ourselves in some ways?
Are we really that it's okay to not want to
(47:25):
have to go? You know? It's imagine a little chill
child that you're talking to and you're like, rush, get kick.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Well, I do find that my brain is thinking in
ways that it never thought of before. That the psychedelics
has opened up a channel in my head that I
am able to accomplish. Do think feel things that I
never thought possible. I do know that it opened my
mind in wild ways that I haven't even realized yet.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
So when you.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Say things, I'm hearing them completely different, and they're set
in kinder and gentler and like clicking into place.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
So that is like wild and I love it. Yes,
so thank you for being here.
Speaker 6 (48:11):
Paul.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
We are now at a time, but I'd love to
have you back to talk more about this topic. You know,
we get a lot of people who say, oh, talk
more about something, and we will definitely be having you back.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
I appreciate you being here today.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
To all of you who come and listen every week,
thank you so much for being here. We can't have
the show without you. We are here for you. That's
why we do these episodes. So thank you again for
being here.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
We're going to be here.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Again, same time, same place, next week, and until then,
let's just keep this shit real.
Speaker 6 (48:46):
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends,
like and follow us on Instagram at fifty Shades of
Underscore Bullshit and Facebook at fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Thanks so much for
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Listening, and we really hope to see you again next week.
The following show contains adult content. It's not our intent
to offend anyone, but we want to inform you that
if you are a child under the age of eighteen
or get offended easily, this next show may not be
for you. The content, opinions, and subject matter of these
shows are solely the choice of your show hosts and
their guests, and not those of the Entertainment Network or
any affiliated stations. Any comments or inquiry should be directed
(00:22):
to those show hosts.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you for listening, hy everyone, and welcome to fifty
Shades of Bullshit. I'm your host, Christine Lalan and this
is the podcast where we uncover the truth about online dating.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Now let's begin.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hey everyone, I'm Christine and this is fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Thanks for joining us again today. As you see, I
am by myself at the moment only because Steve was
unable to join us today. And I have a very
special guest that I'm going to bring on now. So
his name is Paul Antico. He is actually the brother
(01:06):
of a very good friend of mine. We've been friends
for fourteen years and I met Paul through Denise. And
let me tell you a little about Paul. And why
He's here today. Today is part two of our Psychedelic
Is it Medicine or is it just getting High? Paul
is a trauma informed somatic practitioner and facilitator with a
(01:29):
focus on developmental attachment and ancestral trauma. He works with
a range of modalities including Rosen method, body work and movement,
compassionate injury, oh inquiry, sorry medicine, dance, and the Polyvagle
theory based safe and sound and rest and restore protocol.
(01:50):
Paul is also trained in psychedelic somatic interactional psychotherapy is
called PSIP, which he has modified in all as a
distinct body based therapeutic option called regional somatic tuning. He
has also founded in twenty eighteen Acosa Journeys. He has
(02:11):
guided more than one hundred and fifty full day psychedelic journeys,
offering individualized in depth support, rooted in care, attunement and
embodied presence. His work emphasis co creation, emotional safety, and
the innate intelligence of the body, whether or not psychedelics
(02:32):
are part of the process. So Paul also remains an
active contributor to the psychedelic community, serving as an integration circle,
facilitator and former managing director of Psychedeia, he might have
to correct that integration a nonprofit offering education and support
(02:53):
around psychedelic killing. Let's bring Paul on and.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
He can tell me if I said that badly. Hey, Paul,
thanks great to see you. You are welcome.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
You know what's crazy is that the second journey that
I had the very next day, I was really struggling
with it, and I had a very good friend who
was having a birthday party.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
And though I was exhausted.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
From the event of a whole week of events that
I did for my new job, I knew something was
calling me to go. Like I kept thinking, I'm too tired.
I'm sure she'll understand, and I just kept getting this
feeling that I needed to be there. And when you
(03:42):
walked in the door, Pall, I immediately knew the reason why
I needed to be there, because after I talked to
you about my second, my first and second journey with
the psychedelics, you were able to help me process that
day so much smoother and more easier than I was
(04:03):
doing on my own, just being able to communicate with
you and your different way of having that insight. So
first I want to say thank you, because I really
don't think I could have continued to handle it on
my own.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
So thank you for that.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Thank you so much for trusting me with that, and
it's my pleasure. But what I got to do support
people on their journeys, right however that shows up, Well, you.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Are really good at showing up.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And you know, I just know that from you know,
knowing you throughout these last fourteen years through Denise, you know,
just being at all the family functions and parties, you know,
but also as a you know, a person who helps
people with the facilitating of their psychedelic journey. I think
(04:54):
this is just a really incredible path that you've gone
on and I and I love it, and I'm really
grateful you could be here today. So tell us more
about what it's like to be a facilitator. But also
I really want to talk today about the actual journey,
talking about how to prepare, what's important to know, and
(05:17):
why you should have a facilitator when you're starting out
on this journey, because I should have and did not,
and now I know I should, so that'll change.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
But I do want to go.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Through the process, the steps of before, during, and after
and why these things are really important.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So before the journey, the thing that I like to
start with with every single person is why you want
to do this? What is your intention? Is another way
to say that what draws you the psychedelics or whatever
it is. You know, it doesn't even have to be psychedelics.
What is it that you're trying to accomplish? And I
try and focus always, you know, that is like the
(05:57):
sort of the guiding light and everything tailored to that.
So it depends on what someone's purpose is, because you
can have a more like I'd like to have a
mystical experience, you know, I'd like to work on my trauma,
or you know, some people just want to do things
like in the business community, maybe I want to get
(06:17):
more creative or something like that. So there's a lot
of different reasons and then you know, I would approach
it differently. And one thing that's really interesting is that
no matter what the reason is that you say, it
doesn't mean your trauma is not going to come like perking.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Up, Hell, yeah, you know, I was just going to
ask you that.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I was going to say, how often is it really though,
when we set an intention, that that intention is actually
what is met that that it's not something else that
comes through that's needed that we don't even realize.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Yeah, exactly. You know, you can have your intention and
then ideally in the in the in the session, you
let go of that and if you're having a hard time,
you can always bring that back as an anchor. This
is why I'm doing this. But in general, you want
to let it go. And your attention may or may
not be directly realized, or it's often realized, but in
(07:12):
a maybe more indirect way. So as people you probably heard,
you know, people say you don't get what you want,
you get what you need. And in a you know,
it's a little vague that kind of a statement, because well,
you could say that about anything that happens. Well, that's
what you need. And so I like to be a
little more I don't know, if thoughtful about it, and
(07:34):
it's like, whatever happens, you want to be able to
relate it to your life somehow and how does it
fit in it, because it might show you what gets
in the way of your intention, rather than here it is,
we're going to give you, you know, a taste of it.
We're going to give you instead a taste of what's
blocking it.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Great.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So when you prepare people to do this type of journey,
what is there some major steps that they should be taking.
Are there things that you discuss like ahead of time,
so you know what a potency or what kind of
thing to do.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Is this a thing that you have to do first?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah, I always like to have at least one pre
session I call it before the session, where you know,
we talk a lot about some of its logistics, which
is getting into well, there's a lot of music playlist choices.
We definitely talk about dosage, which has a lot to
do with what their intention is, how much experience, if any,
they've had with psychedelics, their own comfort level, you know,
(08:36):
a sense that I get from talking to them as
far as the dose, and then you know it's really
playing with their intention a lot. And so what I
like to do, well, first of all, there's a bit
of an education involved.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
I tell people that what you're doing in a sense
is you're opening the locked door of your unconscious right
get at some of the stuff that's been difficult to
get at otherwise. And not that you can't get it
at it other ways, but it's a little bit more
you know, facilitated faster.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
I see that.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
But it's like, imagine you have this locked closet, like
I got to get in here, and I lost the
key or something, and so you get in there finally
with the psychedelic key. Let's say, now you have to
deal with everything that's in there. And people don't think
about that as much. It's like, I just want open
the door and it'll all know. You actually don't want
to open the door too fast either, because then everything
(09:32):
that's pouring out and it's too much, too fast, your
overwhelming system completely.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So yeah, I learned that I'm a balls to the wall,
you know, go big or go home kind of goal.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
And I went big.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And because I thought, after three and a half years,
almost four years now of working on myself and growing
to love myself and all these amazing things that I've
done in my healing journey, I thought that this would
be a cakewalk.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
I really did.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I thought it'd be a cakewalk. I thought I'd open
that door and cleaned out everything. But I didn't know
that there was a false panel in the back of
my closet and then it.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Was a completely different looking closet. I don't know. That
was wild for me.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
It's really we have to think of it in terms
also of how did we get those feelings of lack
of self work, and that you know, speaks to attachment
and trauma and all of our early childhood, and so
we have to respect that. You know. It's like we
want to honor our own wounds, and so part of
that is to realize also how long were we in
(10:38):
that environment where we were getting that message. It's a
long time. It's very absorbed and it's not like a
simple okay, one second journat in your hall. You know,
that would be awfully nice because you wouldn't it. I'd
be enlightened a few times if that was the case,
but not truly. So so that's a piece of the
(11:01):
puzzle where we, you know, we underestimate. You know a
lot of people say, well, I've already worked through that,
and then it's a psychedelic journey or something will happen
and they'll be like, oh, I guess I didn't completely
work through that exactly.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
So it's good to have like a respect is what
I'd like to call it, for your own process, for
where you are, for where you came from, and for
the psychedelic which can you know, I can say could
open up too much too fast.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
That's where some people get destabilized. You know, they're like,
you know, everything's not you know, fitting well anymore.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Well.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I think that I didn't realize that there were layers,
like like your skin, your body has layers to it.
You know, there's layers to the skin, the fat, the muscle,
you know, the tendons and the bone. I just thought
that my brain, you know, the healing was just like, Oh,
I've done the work, I'm doing the healing, I'm growing,
(11:53):
I'm doing great things.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
I just thought that that was it.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I didn't realize that there really is a more to
trauma that there is, And I guess I probably wouldn't
have gone into it the way that I had. If
I'd had that kind of consultation with somebody, I think that,
you know, I would have handled it a little differently, obviously,
But you know what, I did it the way I
(12:18):
did it, and I am very proud of how I
am now after it. You know, the the enlightenment that
I've been getting that the changes in my life that
has been happening are amazing. But I do think that
it should have been done a different way and I
know that well.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
It definitely opens you up. And one of the things
that can be very helpful, which is what you know
you're talking about. Even if you have a journey that's
a little you know too much, maybe having good processing
available afterward can really make a difference. So if someone's
just left to spiral out and continue, that's how things
(12:58):
go off the rails further. So that's an important piece.
You know what people call loosely integration.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Integration, you know it For me it was I was
doing the same methods that I had done the previous
time the week before for the integration, but the problem
was is that deeper, different trauma based things were coming out,
and like we had talked about, I didn't know how
to process it properly. You coming at it at a
(13:28):
different angle than I could see it really helped flip that.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Narrative for me.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Yeah, thank you. It's the perspective, you know, a lot
of it is because we can get trapped in our
own It's like when we're stuck in our own stuff
and we're projecting onto other people or whatever, we don't
have the viewpoint advantage. So that's part of what someone
can bring that's you know, experience with these kinds of well,
(13:54):
essentially it's just you know, the the machinations of our
mind and how does our mind work, and tweaking and
going off on this direction of that direction, and having
a sense of that because psychedelics just stir it all up.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Psychedelics have been called non specific amplifiers of what's already there,
so that means whatever's there, it just gets amplified. It's
not like psychedelics will magically change your point of view entirely,
because there's a lot of no.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I think that it has kind of changed my point
of view on quite a bit of things, not like dramatically,
like I think you're saying, like black and White, that
I've completely flipped the switch, but I see things perspectively
different than I've ever seen them before. I think that
after the second one, I was scared and I was like,
(14:51):
I don't know if I can fucking do this again.
But now looking back at it and knowing where I
can go now, I'm actually curious to see if anything
else does come up that I that I think is
all acknowledged.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Also, the second time wasn't as crazy as the first
time though, it was pretty fucking heavy, but I do
see why integration is super important. I would like to
go back a little and because a lot of our
listeners may not have ever done anything like this before,
I'd love it if you could kind of paint the
picture for us of what it looks like and the
(15:32):
actual physical doing the mushrooms with a facilitator. Like, some
people are afraid to do it because they don't know
what it's going to be like. And I'm curious if
you could tell us a little bit of what it's
like for people to do that.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Well, it's hard to describe the actual internal experience.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Part, not the internal maybe the externals.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
I can talk around it though. So Yeah, there's something
that I like to call the four pillars of psychedelic facilitation,
which is, you know, from the facilitator's point of view,
what does a facilitator bring you know. So one of
those is the somatic piece, which is the body based piece.
(16:14):
I want to have a because you know, all of
our the saying our issues are in our tissues. It's
like where do we hold those things? It's like we
have a felt sense that we're no good, let's say,
or we have a felt sense that we are you know,
that we are good people, and that is the stuff
that can show up when negativity shows up. What is
(16:36):
that It's a felt sense in the body. It's not
like a mental thing. It was just a mental thing.
We could just think our way out of it, and
it doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
You know, it's interesting that you say that because now
I think about being a teenager and at a certain
age I started developing back problems where I don't know why.
I never could remember or figure out why. And I
(17:04):
realized as you were talking that I started developing pains
in my back because I was holding my trauma in
my back right, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And uh yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Mean that's the whole sort of one of the main
pieces of Rose and Method bodywork that I do is
working with chronic muscular tension that comes from our unconscious
things and where do we store those things in the body?
Just how can we help, you know, release that tension
which you know restricting us. Literally it can restrict our
(17:37):
breath so that we're taking smaller breaths than we could
otherwise take. And you think about breathing. When you're taking
a full breath, you're literally taking up more space. You
feel like, you know, a lot of us want to hide.
Certainly in my early younger days, I totally was like
wanting to hide, like how how small? How invisible? Can
(17:58):
I be?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Small?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Can I be? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
So a lot of us are you have been in
that situation, and so how do we learn that it's
okay to take up space, it's okay to be in
the world. And so there's a physiological level part of it,
which is the rosa, So that the somatic piece is
from a facilitation point of view. You want to be
able to have that you know enough of that knowledge
to help clients as they're going along. The trauma and
(18:24):
form piece is the therapeutic piece, and that's where you
want to if someone comes up, like someone once in
a session said to me, you know you're here to
help me, right, And they also said, I'm making you
work too hard, And so recognize that that is a
statement that's saying I don't feel like I'm worth helping,
(18:48):
I'm putting you out too much.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Is this before they started or during a lot of
things come out that I didn't realize that I was
saying too.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
I wish that I had recorded it. Quite frankly.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Well, the thing that's nice about that is when you
have someone that recognizes what's going on, they can respond
appropriately like, oh, no, you know, I'm here because I
want to support you. You deserve the support, and hearing
something like that, particularly under the influence of a psychedelic
can really get in there and make people take a
(19:24):
real pause because it's like, Wow, they've never heard that
in their lives and they're like, what, someone really, you know,
I'm not a burden to somebody, you know. So it's
shifted noticing those subtle things to be able to sort
of loosely present the person of another way, a reflection
that they are worth something, they are valued, they can
(19:47):
take up space, it's they're not a burden all those things.
So that's the trauma piece.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Do you find that when you're in the middle of
helping somebody through this type of journey that they develop
physical pains throughout it that weren't typically there before?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Because I experienced that my first time.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
You can you can a lot of things can show up,
So it's a little bit you just have to deal
with things as they come up. But yeah, a lot
of things can come up. A lot of things we
do for distraction. You know, it's too much. So it's
back and forth with that. You just kind of have
to work with whatever showing up with the person. The
(20:30):
other thing moving on is the personal psychedelic experience. The
facilitator ideally knows the territory. Yeah, there's a lot of
evil that are. You know, it's a bit of an
argument in the therapeutic community. Maybe we don't need to
have done psychedelics to support people, you.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Know, No, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I kind of like the idea that somebody knows exactly
what I'm going through and the process of it and why.
I'm not sure I would trust somebody who has never
experienced it and done the work themselves, because I personally
think you need to do the work yourself to understand that.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
That's my own opinion, though I'm definitely in that camp.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
So just to note that, you know, that's one piece.
And then the last piece that I think is important
for facilitators anyway, is to have the trans personal piece.
And another way to say that is the nondual reality.
That's when you start getting into the mystical realms and
all is one. What does that literally mean? And how
might that show up in someone's description of what's going on,
(21:32):
And to be able to recognize and work talk that
language as well, so it all kind of weaves together,
you know, all these different pieces so that you can
respond appropriately to what someone is saying, because they might
throw in a bit of transpersonal, a bit of somatic,
a bit of some trauma thing, and it's all kind
of jumbled up. So you got to be able to ideally,
(21:54):
you know, respond appropriately to cover what may seem like contradictions, right, well,
really not it.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
You know, it's crazy what the mind does too, because
you know, I could I didn't see any kind of
like weird things that were like breathing or moving or whatever.
Everything was subconscious in my brain, and so I was
seeing things inside of my head in my third eye,
(22:26):
not physical because I kept my eyes closed, because every
time I open my eyes, I would literally see dark entities.
So I've closed my eyes and I would fucking still
see the dark entities, but this time they were in
my brain and not in my eyesight, So I could
handle that a little bit better knowing they weren't physically there,
(22:46):
you know what I mean. So I was able to
handle it a little better because it was in my
head and I knew it was the battles inside my
head and not physical.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Right now, that was a good place in this and
SA that some people could get a little further out
to where they can't separate that and they do feel
that it's something outside themselves completely, and there's a whole discussion.
Some people say there really are things outside and some
people say, you know they're not, and you know, rather
than worry about that argument because from a non dual
(23:19):
perspective doesn't even hold up. You know, if if we're
all one, well, then what's inside is outside and what's
outside is inside. So it's right, irrelevant discussion in that sense,
But how do you deal with it as the important part?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And I think that someone like say myself, who happens
to have certain type of abilities where I see here,
think feel things on a different level than other people
because I tend to be a little bit more psychic
mediumsh kind of thing, so I do see and hear
other things that are just on the other side of
(23:55):
some thin veil or whatever. And I think that I
was able to see a more clear but it was
none of the good stuff. It was all the dark,
the dark shit, So that was better for me to
keep my eyes closed and deal with it here than here.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Also, the value, getting back to one of the other
points you mentioned earlier, the value of having a sitter there.
If nothing else, the sitter can just be sort of
a a support that can help you go through it.
You know, like I'm with you, I've got your hand
under and so yeah, you can you can handle it,
(24:34):
you know, I can help that. That's part of the problem.
We get into these states and then we're like, oh
my god, I'm also I have nothing, you know, I'm
going to lose it. And so instead, if you have
someone there that's very supportive with that, you know that
you can face It's kind of like this gets back
to attachment theory. When we're young, one of the things
(24:57):
we need to learn is that when we have big emotion,
our parent ideally is holding us and they're not upset.
So we learned that we can have those big emotions
and we can calm down. It's like it's through our
caregiver relationships that ideally are good ones that can give
(25:17):
us that sense, that sense that we can't handle things
that we can and so journey you know, we're kind
of re enacting in a sense. They call it earned attachment,
you know in the therapeutic language, where you can get
that same sense of attachment through your therapist or you know, facilitator.
(25:38):
If you're having that kind of an experience. It all
depends on what's coming up right, right, right, so that
you can handle things anyway.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, I will say that I was lucky I did
have Christian there and he was on on a journey too.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
But this is the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
In the very beginning, I could tell that shit was
going down fast and then it is going to be crazy.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
And the minute it hit me and I knew it.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Was going to be crazy, I just kept saying to him,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm afraid I'm going to ruin
your journey because this one is going to be fucking
insane and I don't know if I can handle it
by myself, And he just kept saying, no, it's okay,
I'm here for you, I'm here for you. And the
only reason why I trusted him is because he knows
(26:25):
literally everything about my trauma, like every fucking detail of
my trauma, and so I felt comfortable with whatever would
come out of my mouth.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
And.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
About thirty minutes into my bad, fucking craziness, he literally said, hey,
after I'd said for the hundredth time, I'm sorry, I'm
ruining your journey, and he said, listen, I just just
realized that my journey is here to support your journey.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
That is it.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And he was there to support my journey both times.
The second time I was a little more eard with him.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Then the first time. But we did it, and we
got through it, and you know.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
It was just the emotions that I was feeling through
what I was experiencing, not from something he was or
wasn't doing. But I think that if he had known
how to be a facilitator, or if I had actually
been with the facilitator, I think the journey could have
been a little less traumatic or a little less crazy
for me to process. In the end, I got there,
(27:29):
thank goodness, but it would have been better.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
It sounds like he was on the right track though,
by making it clear that you know, you're not ruining
his trip. You know that's part of the our own
self worth situation. I don't deserve the help, you know,
I'm ruining everyone else's thing. As if you don't count
you know you do count well.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I felt bad because I didn't know what he was
going through, and I kept saying to him, what are
you experiencing?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Are you feeling the same things I am?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Like?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
No, I said, what are you feeling? He goes nothing,
and what do you mean fucking nothing?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
What do you mean nothing?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
And he said, actually, I feel like I'm outside of
my body watching us. And he said, so I'm able
to observe this differently and I'm here to support you.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
And that's when he said that.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Then I was like, okay, I can accept this because
I need it.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Okay, interesting, Yeah, yeah, you know, whenever I facilitate, I'm
never under the influence, you know, I never.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah right right right?
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Nor should you be.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Yeah, that's that's my philosophy.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
We were just friends having fun.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I didn't know I was going to take some fucking
wack adoodle thing to hell, right.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Yeah. So getting back to your other point is what
is it like, you know, as as someone taking the journey? Now,
it depends on how you know. Like I have a
whole little thing that I go through with people. When
I start, I do like a little ritual the beginning
where I call in the seven directions I call in,
(29:06):
and I don't actually say call in when I'm doing it.
I like to say tune in because they're the energies
are always there, and I like to point that out.
It's like people think, or we're going to call them in,
they're you know, they're over across the street. Maybe let's
call them in. Well, they're already here always, They're always
with us. So it's tuning in the energy. So the
(29:28):
seven directions.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Making yourself aware that that they're.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yes, is that what you're saying, Okay, yep, yeah, they're
already here. We're kind of acknowledging okay. So the directions
and the qualities associated with the seven directions, and that's
kind of my own it's kind of my own blend.
The ritual is kind of my own blend of a
number of different things traditions, because it's not not all
one specific thing. From there, I like to tune into
(29:56):
our innate healing intelligence, which you've probably heard about artist psychedelics.
They talk about it, and that can be a little
vague and some people take issue with that, but I
think of it very concretely, like what grows your hair,
what grows your nails? How does your body know how
to grow? That's that's intelligent, and so that's part of
(30:16):
our you know. It's like when you cut your finger,
your body knows how to heal, and we help a
band aid or whatever, but the body is the one
that does the actual healing. So we're tuning into that
part of ourselves that, given you know, good conditions the ground,
to reorient and put ourselves more together, become more integrated
(30:37):
in a sense. So then I also call in and
tune into the ancestors. And I love to talk about
ancestors in this interesting way. It's like we're trying to
clear our trauma. Well, our ancestors have the trauma too.
That's why we have because they didn't clear it. I
like to say our ancestors are rooting for us, because
(31:00):
if we clear it, it's going to clear it up
and down the line, you know, in that trans personal sense,
everything is happening now. There's no past, no future, nothing
now now it So if we clear it, that's it.
It's like, so it's a really nice, you know, kind
of poetic way to feel more supported more, you know,
(31:21):
like everyone's there, Like, oh.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Do you think when people go in to do this
with you. Are they sitting down in like a recliner?
Are they laying down on something? Is it pillows? Is
it setting? You know like lights and music? I mean
what is what is the physicality of it like for people?
Speaker 4 (31:42):
So that's something that we go over at the precession
as to where do they want to do it? Because
when I work with people, I go to them. I
don't have them come to me. And I always find
it's better because people feel more safe in their own
environment and they don't have to go anywhere at the end,
you know, who wants to get to an uber or
get picked up or you know, change the whole vibe?
(32:03):
You know, it's like, let's just would.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
Right.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
So that's one thing I talk about is like, so
do you want I think it's better for people to
generally lie down, you know, maybe propped up a little
bit on top. But however, someone's comfortable. So my big
rule is what makes you feel safer? That's the big criteria.
Do you feel safer in this room or that room?
(32:29):
Do you feel safer on this couch or in your
own room on the bed? Do you feel safer on
the floor? Where is it? And I'll ask them to
kind of feel into that and we can always shift
if you know, if they're not feeling comfortable one spot.
But most people are on a couch or or on
a bed propped up a little bit, and you know,
(32:50):
it's very comfortable. Blankets are handy and nearby, and sometimes
a weighted blanket, you know, spends on the person, you know,
which is one of the there's what I call the
five pillars of psychedelic journeys, and so one of those
is what you're talking about, what we're talking about right now.
Setting that's the actual environment, and so that is the house,
(33:13):
the location, you know. One of the things I have
people do is create an energetic safe space the day
of which is where you're visualizing a white sphere that's
around your entire space, like your whole house or your
whole apartment or whatever it is. Because we have the
physical safe space where we're actually physically in, and then
we have the energetic version with that imagined white sphere
(33:37):
covering all of us, so really doubly telling ourselves physiologically, somatically, energetically,
you're safe whatever. All of you is welcome here. Another
thing I like to say, all of you. I like
that dark parts, the light parts everything, so, you know,
because we don't want to. It's like our parents said, well,
(33:59):
you can be nice, but if you're mad, you're gonna
have to go to your room. You know that's that's
not accepting all of your parts.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
When you find that, you know you're going through a
session with somebody when they're going through kind of a
mental and emotional purge, is what I felt like. Do
you find that a lot of people also physically purge?
Because I experienced that the first time, not the second time,
but the first time. I had a lot of physical
(34:31):
purging during.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
It first hour, actually throwing up.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Oh, throwing up, having to peel a lot, having to
shake my pants, though I did not shake my pants.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Okay, that's that clear.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I had to purge like if for me, Paul, the
first one was a mental battle with dark entities, and
it started with myself. Then it went my ancestral I
cleared my ancestral path.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Then it went.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
From that to my kids, and the kids and then
everybody around them who who were associated in their lives.
I can mentally do that. Then it went to my friends.
I mentally verbally would say, oh, it's Angela's turned out,
and then I would purge there clear theirs. And I
did this for like six hours, and after every single
(35:26):
healing purging, I had to purge after everyone.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
It was wild.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
It was almost like I absorbed it and then I
was just getting rid of it.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Right. That's a lot to go through with all of that,
So yeah, it depends on Again, someone's going through something
like that, you know, My approach is how can I
support them?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You know?
Speaker 4 (35:49):
And if you're kind of feeling into everyone else and
sort of sounds like you're trying to clear some of
their energy, is that something that you wanted to do
in this journey? You know? And what was it that was,
you know, kind of directing you in that direction as
opposed to do with yourself. These are just questions that think, yeah,
you know.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, for me, I kept hearing that you're a healer.
I said, why is this happening? You're a healer? I
kept saying why, and you're a healing And I could
visually in my head understand that once I cleared everything
from my space, everybody else's energy is still coming into mind,
and it felt like I needed to go through and
(36:32):
clear out everybody's darkness demons negative energy that was still
attached to them, so that it would not interfere with
my clear space. So all the people that were intimately
close to me, kids, family, friends, whatever, business acquaintances, I
(36:53):
was doing that so that it wouldn't come back onto
me again.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Does that make sense.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I needed to clear the whole path. Yeah, that's that's
where my head went.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Anyway, It's an interesting place, So that would be something
that would be well worth exploring a lot in integration
because there's a lot of directions you could go with
that specific thing. Was it a distraction more from deeper
trauma that you had to go to outside? Could have
been that? You know, I just felt a way to
handle that.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
I just felt like I was so cleared out and
there was still a lot of time that I was
still going to be handling this drug or this medication
or this you know, psychedelic moment. For me, it just
seemed like the natural step to do. It just was
something that I needed to do. It was something that
(37:45):
I needed to do for myself as well as the other.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
People in my life. And I've always.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Felt like I'm a little bit of a healer. Anyway
I can remove energies. I can physically touch somebody that's
hurting in some way and it'll lessen the pain.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
It's just something I've been able to do for a
long time. I have never really explored it, but I
felt like in this it was showing me.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Yeah, I'm going to say that could be part of
it as well, showing you the process and sort of
validating in a sense. And then also it could also
be showing you that it can be maybe there's another
way to do it where you're not having to urge
so much.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
It could be interested.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Something about Rose and method body work has this way
of talking about it where when you're working on someone,
if you're doing it, you know, I want to say
in tune, you don't need to like shake off our
bad energy because you're both being nurtured. It's not like
I've got your bad juju and now I have to
(38:54):
get rid of it. Because in a sense, if I'm
a healer and I'm going up to you and saying, well,
I just don't want to get your bat ud, I mean.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
That's what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
Yes, like that, I know to me, I'm just you know,
exaggerating to make that point. But it's like, uh, you know,
you're not going to feel as comfortable about because I'm
already saying, oh, you've got this stuff. It's more like,
you know, I'm going to be able to nurture both
of us through this process, not just so you know,
(39:29):
I'm always a little leery of some of that kind
of thinking of it.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
I don't know, it just felt like it was something
I was destined to do if if I was in
this position and I had done the work for myself
and my ancestors and my children, It's like, you know,
I want to have a better relationship with all these
people in my life.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
So I like was going to town.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
Right right, it sounds great really, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
So we only have like seven minutes left, which is crazy.
Time goes wy fast. But I want to talk about
the integration the day after or that, you know afterwards.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
How does that look?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Well? I can look a lot of different ways, and
I think I think one of the big things is
everyone talks about integration and like what is it? It's
you know, the standard quote psychedelic definition is you know,
and I'll just read it here because it's it's just
like so common. It's the successful embodiment of one's into
(40:37):
one's life, of the spiritual psychological insights, emotions, and sensations
and visions received during psychedelic journeys to help us support
our healing, growth and well being. So it's the embodiment
of whatever we've learned, essentially through however they came. And
that's sort of your standard psychedelic definition. You know, how
do we take the integrate what we saw and felt
(41:01):
into our day to day live. Well, that's pretty vague,
I think. Yeah, you know, it's like, well, okay, a
lot of things, you know, it went advises, like journaling
and being some meditation and all of that kind of thing.
So I like to describe it also as integrating shadow
parts into our selves such that more choices and feelings
(41:25):
are available to us. And so what does that mean?
The shadow parts are the parts that we don't know
so well, that's like behind the locked door. And so
once we acknowledge them and then and then we're comfortable
with them. Let's say we're afraid to cry, so then
we learn that it's okay to cry, and now that's
(41:45):
in our repertoire. Before we always avoided crying, and now
it's okay to cry. So we're actually bigger because we
have more choice, more emotions available, and we're more integrated
because that emotion is now integrated into us, whereas before
it was kind of disowned on the side. So integration
(42:05):
is like getting bigger embodying our shadow parts. And there's
a really great, great quote from Dan Siegel where he
describes it really well, and he's not relating to psychedelics,
but it's the same thing. The movement toward well being
is a movement toward integration. As integration is achieved across
(42:26):
the numerous dimensions of living, a sense of the unity
of being is revealed interesting, and so that's you know,
that's a really great summation of integration, whether it's psychedelic
or not. And so psychedelics you're just applying a little
more specifically in the psychedelic context. If you're in a
therapy session, you'd say, well, integrating the therapy session, But
(42:49):
it's all the same being ultimately.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Not you know, I've been through a lot of different
types of therapy and not one of them ever tried
to inter great any of that shit. Yeah, well you
just go home and try to process it on your
own and all you've done is talk about it, So
it doesn't really right, that doesn't make sense. But in
this in this world where you're really getting deep and
(43:16):
really opening up some things that you know that your
mind is letting go of or exposing to you, integration
just really makes sense at always, I mean even with therapy.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Yeah, And another way to put it is when your
internal and external parts are in integrity with each other,
Like what you're feeling is what you're showing, and what
you're showing is what you're feeling, as opposed to.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Pretending that you're better or you're happy when you're not
or right.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Yeah, when our outside expression matches our internal feelings. So
that's another way to talk about integration. There's a lot
of you know, and psychedelics can certainly help with that process,
but that's you know again, psychedelics are just a the goal.
I like to say, the healing is the star, not
the psychedelics. A lot of people get too carried away.
(44:08):
The psychedelics is the star, it's going to do it
all army, No, sorry, The healing is the star. The
psychedelic is a tool towards that, And there there's a
lot of tools, and that's just one tool.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Yeah, I get that. I didn't know it that way
when I went into it. I see that now. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
You say that that the healing is the star, that
that is the core of it all. I like that
there are different tools, but this tool is actually quite fascinating.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Yeah it is. It's one other thing I like to
make in terms of this process. How we go about
healing is the healing. So how do we treat ourselves
on this journey? How are we trying to blast ourselves
with dynamite and take like the biggest dose possible, or
psychedelics whatever, go through some intense therapy that's really torturous,
(45:05):
like throwing yourself in the deep end of the pool
when you can't swim and saying swim or die. Oh
that's traumatic.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
It is how we are.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
If we can be tender toward ourselves, we be compassionate
toward ourselves through the process, honor our fears. Say okay,
I'm too afraid to do this right now, that's okay.
Can we honor that we can treat That's the healing,
like treating ourselves with the kindness that we didn't often get.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
I love that Yeah, Actually that resonates very strongly in me.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, I think my brain needs to process that. But
that really resonated in my brain. That made a lot
of sense that I never thought about it that way.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Interesting. I like that.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Yeah, I haven't heard a lot of people say that,
but that's, you know, just from my own experience over
you know, a fairly long time of my own healing
and feeling into different modalities, methods, some that are a
little harsher than others. You know, it's like this whole
tough love thing.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
No, I think I think that I've always felt like,
especially over this last four years, that I just needed
to hurry up and get better, you know, just heal
my fucking self, do it.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
And I've not been kind at all.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
And then here I'm thinking, I'm just going to take
these psychedelics. It's going to clear out the last of
the cob webs, and I'm going to be just fine.
And I wasn't kind to myself there either. And I'm
finding that the more I'm trying to be gentle and
kinder to myself, the more of the world tries to
be harsher and meaner to me.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
That's my own you know, bullshit that's running around in
my head these days. But it's been a little challenging,
so I don't know.
Speaker 4 (47:03):
Maybe if you're feeling kinder towards yourself, you're feeling the
world is instead being harsher yep, Well, how can you
be towards that, you know, toward the harshness of the world,
you know, because things don't just shift immediately anyway. It's like,
and are we really being kind to ourselves in some ways?
Are we really that it's okay to not want to
(47:25):
have to go? You know? It's imagine a little chill
child that you're talking to and you're like, rush, get kick.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Well, I do find that my brain is thinking in
ways that it never thought of before. That the psychedelics
has opened up a channel in my head that I
am able to accomplish. Do think feel things that I
never thought possible. I do know that it opened my
mind in wild ways that I haven't even realized yet.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
So when you.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Say things, I'm hearing them completely different, and they're set
in kinder and gentler and like clicking into place.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
So that is like wild and I love it. Yes,
so thank you for being here.
Speaker 6 (48:11):
Paul.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
We are now at a time, but I'd love to
have you back to talk more about this topic. You know,
we get a lot of people who say, oh, talk
more about something, and we will definitely be having you back.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
I appreciate you being here today.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
To all of you who come and listen every week,
thank you so much for being here. We can't have
the show without you. We are here for you. That's
why we do these episodes. So thank you again for
being here.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
We're going to be here.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Again, same time, same place, next week, and until then,
let's just keep this shit real.
Speaker 6 (48:46):
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends,
like and follow us on Instagram at fifty Shades of
Underscore Bullshit and Facebook at fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Thanks so much for
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Listening, and we really hope to see you again next week.
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