S03E08: Unveiling Shadows: The First Omen and the Legacy of Fear

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
First on film and entertainment. Andthere is a big blockbuster that we are
going to discuss today. Now,I don't care whether it's an independent film
or a blockbuster, as long asit's a movie that leaves an impression,
and this one most certainly does.Talking about impressions, we have got Greek
king. Do you do impressions ordo you not? I don't do impressions?

(00:23):
No, take me as just takeme, get me well, but
ang on you, but you dodad jokes very well, well badly lame
dad jokes. Yes, that's whatyou're known for. Now, what about
you, Peter Kraus, do youdo? You don't impress me? But
there you go. Do you doimpressions? No? I don't. It's
all a serade, thank you verymuch, indeed very I'm talking about civil

(00:48):
war, not between us. Butwhat a prosaic film in the sense that
it was written before all of whoplathat's going on and going down in America
and so on. I'm a bigfan of the film director and the writer
Alex Garland. He's made some reallygood ex Macinna really stood out in my
mind. What about you, Peter, do you like his filmmaking? Style.

(01:12):
Absolutely, he likes to go outthere with his subject matter. Yeah,
very much so Greg. You you'rea fan or not, you know
what's over his stuff, especially forthose vampire films you did earlier in his
career at the Beach yep. Buthe does some esoteric stuff as well.

(01:33):
X X. I mean, okay, I'm referenced x Macanna. That really
stood out in my mind, butin this one as well. I mean,
this is this blockbuster. I've gotto say to you upfront, this
is my probably the most noteworthy moviethat I've seen since I picked the not
just me, but I think theworld picked Oppenheimer as being the best film
of last year. Civil War isan extraordinary film. I mean, this

(01:57):
is about America ad war with itselfand this sort it's a bloody, take
no prisoner's war. I thought itwas absolutely super special. The President is
played by Nick Offerman, and he'sdeclared that basically America's on the verge of
victory his side, if you like, in this war, but it couldn't
be further from the truth. Andlooking to take over is the combined military
might of Texas and California. Coveringthe conflict. Seasoned war photographer Lee played

(02:24):
by Kirsten Dunst, and the journalistJoel a Brazilian actor called Wagner Moorra,
and they work for Reuters. ThePresident has not given an interview about this
conflict for fourteen months. He's donenews conferences as such or stand ups,
but not one on one interviews.And this pair is determined to break the

(02:49):
drought and to try to reach himin Washington, d C. They need
to drive a hazardous indirect route ofnearly fourteen hundred kilometers I'm talking driving right,
and he certainly won't be rolling outthe welcome matt to meet them.
This is the President, of course, he doesn't know they're coming, and
along the way many untold dangers arelurking. But these journos are all about

(03:13):
doing their jobs and tagging along withthem. The veteran New York Times correspondent
called Sammy played by Stephen McKinley Henderson, and a twenty three year old went
behind the years photographer called Jesse playedby Kaylee Spainey. To the latter,
the photographer Jesse, the full horrorthe Heartbreak of War is writ large on

(03:35):
the eye opening journey that she's aboutto undertake with the other three. All
are frequently at imminent risk, includingfrom lawless individuals that have lost any sense
of humanity, and among them isa recalcitrant shooter played by Jesse Plemmons.
What a diabolical role and how wonderfullypresented it is. But I'll tell you
what scares that. But Jesus outof you mention the right and director Alex

(04:00):
Garland, and he really does stepit up a notch. This is his
breakout blockbuster film. It's intense,it's visceral, has a lot to say
about civil disobedience in society and whereit can lead, and it does so
by focusing on the documentaries of warand how they go about their business.

(04:20):
It's a story that's disturbingly compelling.It's enriched by really strong performances. The
build up of the atrocities of wardeeply ingrained in Lee, the Kirsten Dunst
character. She's covered many wars asLee, and that world weariness is written
all over Dunst's face. Wagner MouraChannel's Joel's gung ho nature whose excitement is

(04:45):
tempered by the harsh realities that lieahead. Kaylee Spainey's wide eyed innocence.
I thought that was a feature ofher role as the new b Jesse and
Stephen McKinley. Anderson portrays Sammy asa wily old fox who retired but can't
find it within himself to do that. Clemens well just downright evil. But

(05:08):
the visuals Rob Hardy is responsible forthe cinematography and the soundscape as well are
unforgettable, scarring their sid deeply intomy mind. Garland has used his large
canvas admirably. The place to seethis, if you can get there,
is Imax. It is the venue. The ugliness, the shock and awe

(05:28):
are palpable throughout the brutality of warslaid bare, Civil War. It's rich,
it's redolent, it's seid into mypsyche. I thought it was an
extraordinary film, Peter, absolutely extraordinary. And I mean this film has so
many elements to it in terms ofreferences that it makes. I mean,
obviously, it references the January sixthriots on the White House. It references

(05:54):
the state of play of politics Democratsand Republicans at the moment, especially the
Republicans and Trump. It references theCivil War of the nineteenth century, where
North fought the South. And thereis so much too into the story to

(06:15):
go into in terms of the Americanpsyche and the way it is redolent with
division and conflict and so on.This is a very impressive film because of
the way it very coldly presents uswith this possible dystopian future. And Kirsten

(06:36):
Dunster as the photojournalist is just sosuperb as the world weary journalist. And
I'll tell what talent in that familymarried to Jesse Blements, who plays these
nasty roles with victoriole every time thatI see him do it. There's a

(06:57):
lot of talent in that family,isn't there? There is? But to
know that Jesse Plemmons was not originallygoing to play that role. I did
know that. I thought that wasan amazing story. Like the actor who
was pulled out at the last momentand his wife dabbed in Jesse Pleasants,
who was there, I think,minding their child or something on set,
and she doesn't know whether she's actuallydone him a favor because he's going to

(07:20):
be the most hated man on screen. Exactly exactly right. And we should
acknowledge Katie Spanney because she of courseplayed Priscilla in that film, and she
is so gorgeous. Yeah, thatwide eyed innocence. Yes, she's got
a gorgeous, evocative face, hasn'tshe really strong? I mean it's interesting

(07:43):
because suddenly she's introduced the world withPriscilla and she followed, which you know,
this really was her show, please, and all of a sudden she's
now the next big thing, andCivil War will absolutely catapult her to another
level. I reckon, Yes,yes, I just wanted to meet Leave
the World Behind as another reference pointof filmmakers who are looking at a future

(08:07):
America which is looking quite grim actuallyin terms of some filmmakers' views, and
also in Civil War, the notionabout foreigners is such an intriguing one and
has a lot of residents as well. So look, a very impressive film,
and even though it's quite disturbing andviolent at times, it's a film

(08:30):
that I certainly highly recommend. Yeah, in terms of its disturbance, though
I think there will be people whofind it too much. I spoke to
somebody just before we came on airwho saw it and said to me,
I'm really pleased I didn't see thatIMAX and I said, I couldn't be
further from your view. I reckon, you've got to see it imax,
and he said it was so fullon. And so some people, those

(08:54):
people who may mainly go to themovies, what two or three times a
year, who want to go forpure entertainment, this is not entertainment in
that sense because it's really hard easy. So I think you know, be
aware of that it's got an Mrating. I was surprised, actually they've
got an M rating rather than someof the level of violence here. But

(09:15):
it's one hundred and nine minutes induration, ripper of a film. Greg.
You're going to be seeing it betweennow and when we speak next week.
I speak. That's all I listenedto tomorrow. Now good stuff.
Well, okay, Peter, I'llbe very interested to see what your score
is here, what your score iscompared to mine. So go for it.
What's Civil War in your eyes?Oh? A very impressed with film
nine out of ten. Well,and I've given it a nine out of

(09:39):
ten as well, And that's thehighest score I've given since Oppenheimer's ten,
which was very unusual for me.So there we go. We will now
move to another movie that I understand, Peter, you're going to say,
well, it depends on the movie, et cetera. Here's the movie that
didn't sustain its running time, whichwas two hours and thirteen minutes. That's

(10:00):
Lark Camarera. It could have beendone and would have had more impact if
it was one hundred minutes. Don'tyou think No, I don't agree with
you. All right, Well,in the context of this film, the
Camara is something people search for butnever managed to find. It's a fictional
story set among a band of TomBarrolly. They are Italian grave robbers looking

(10:28):
for archaeological wonders, and they're lucky. Charm is an eclectic British archaeologist called
Arthur played by Josh O'Connor. Hefinds things that others can't, and he
uses this forked twig as a diviningrod. It's been a while since I've
seen a divining rod, Greg,have you seen one lately? Not likely?

(10:48):
You know, they used to beall a thing. I don't know.
Look, I'm sorry, I'm somewhatof a skeptic. Do you reckon
they work? Is my question,Peter. He tried to speish under the
bridge. Yes, I was goingto say, have you tried one lately?
Anyway, Arthur's just been released fromprison. He's at a short stint
there. And we are in Tuscanyin the early nineteen eighties, and that's

(11:13):
where during Arthur's earliest studies he fellin love with a girl called ben Yamina,
who was the daughter of a localaristocrat called Flora, played by Isabella
Rosalini. I think she relishes roleslike this. Anyway, Arthur still pines
for ben Yamina. His memories liveon in his dreams, so dares Flora,

(11:35):
who continues to maintain an unrealistic hopeof her return. I don't think
we ever find out how she died, but she did anyway, Arthur's fallen
in with a rowdy crew of twentysomethings who pretend to make their living as
farmers and entertainers, but they actuallypill for the area's ancient Etruscan tomes or

(11:56):
tombs for earthenwear and ornaments to sellon the black market, hoping to one
day strike it rich. And thisis a course where Arthur finds things others
can't comes in very very handy.Meanwhile, Flora has a living Maide and
a tone deaf music student in Italiaplayed by Karen Carol Duarte, and she

(12:18):
catches Arthur's eye. However, shehas her own secrets. Alice Rowacha has
woven what I think is rather intriguingcomedic adventure fantasy romance in La camera.
It's got ethereal quality about it,and it took me quite a while to
become involved and to understand exactly whatwas going down. Because I never read

(12:41):
about movies before I go along,I knew nothing about this. Once the
penny dropped, I did appreciate ita lot more, and I enjoyed the
second half more than the first.But you know, let's be honest,
they can't. Their concept of graverobbers and those that profit from their crime
is appalling and it doesn't sit itall comfortably with me. Still, I
thought the performances in this movie weresolid and naturalistic. Josh O'Connor he occupies

(13:05):
the head space of the disheveled protagonistrather well. You get the feeling that
with his gift, he's very muchcaught up in his own headspace. Carol
Duarte does a fine job transposing Italiafrom subservient to buoyant, and I thought
that Isabella Rossalini was very spirited asthe family matriarch, Vincenzo Nimolato as a

(13:30):
good handle on his roguish persona asa leading member of the gang the twenty
somethings I spoke about, and louRoy Locholenet as spark as the woman in
whom he shows more than a passinginterest. Her name is Melody, the
character that she plays, and she'sfamiliar with the mysterious fence that the crew
uses to offload their fines. Aperson known as Spartaco played by Alba roch

(13:52):
Wacha, who I dare say wouldbe related to the writer and director Alice.
I don't know whether you know that, Peter. You seem to sisters.
There we go. Capturing the JOIde vive of the impoverished gypsy spirit
is critical and nicely realized in whatI thought was the production design of Luck

(14:13):
Camara. It's a picture which isvery much for selective tastes. It does
require concentration to get the most outof and I found it interesting but stretched.
Gregory King, what about you?I found it stretched, and like
you, Alex, I found itreally hard to get in your film.
With the first half which was slowmoving, and it did pick up a

(14:33):
little bit towards the end. Butyeah, I just couldn't engage with the
carriages, I'm afraid. Yeah,I mean I thought it was only interesting,
but I just couldn't engage with thecharacters. Well, isn't it anew?
I mean, the josh O Connorcarried? How does this eclectic British
archaeologist it had come to Italy inthe first place? I mean, you

(14:54):
know, there was no explanation.I suppose people do, you know,
strange things. But I would haveliked a little bit more background, would
you not. Yeah, A littlebit would have helped understand the character a
lot more. I think, Yes, yeah, Peter, you obviously got
a lot more out of it,and that you're entitled to be wrong.
It's okay, thank you very much. I dreamt about that anyway. No,

(15:18):
look, La Kimura refers to ofcourse kim is it? It's kimra?
Okay, how you pronounce it?That's the Italian pronunciation, Yeah,
when we call it. Look,certainly, is Peter really Peter? Or
patisserie? Okay, you're a nicelittle morsel. There we go, you

(15:46):
go here, be careful where thisis going now. La kimura Is references
both Greek mythology and the sort ofthat elusive objective desire in terms of finding
something for wealth and Alice Roavacha,who directed The Wonders and Happy as Lazaro,

(16:07):
which was such a superb film,she likes to deal with people or
characters who are just outside the mainstream, who are perhaps living an experience that
isn't quite in accord with everyone elsearound them. Sorry, be just outside
the mainstream. This is a longway outside the mainstream. Well, yes,
because there is a dream like aspectto this fam of recovery. Yes,

(16:33):
absolutely, because there is a consciousnessissue in this film as well Josh
O'Connor's character and what he understands orexperiences. Look, I found this film
very impressive because it again deals with, as I said, people who are
not quite in accord with who weare as ordinary individuals and are seeking things,

(16:56):
looking for things that we are notnecessary really happy about, but that
it is for their own self developmental, for their own I don't know,
for their own victories of whatever.So finding these historical artifacts is a way

(17:17):
of in some way finding something thatmatches their personality and their and their quest.
So because of that, the filmbecomes a quest a journey that has
a dream like quality to it,which I liked very much, especially because
Vaha deals with filmmaking in a waythat is not the usual type of narrative

(17:45):
structure, so as a commentary onvarious people and lives and set in the
nineteen eighties as it is, Ithought it was a very interesting and impressive
film that, yes, does requirea certain amount of conscious ability to understand

(18:07):
the way the film is going.But I really liked it, did you?
Okay, So let's start with Greg, because I think this. I
think Greg will give it the lowerlowest score. I'll give it the second,
and you'll give it the third.La chimera or kimera or whatever is
that like a camaro the old car, no presents or something? Is basically

(18:30):
what k is? Did you sayheavenly presence, no etherial ethereal present.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned theword ethereal. Pardon me, all right,
Greek. So this is my myignorance showing through my heathen qualities.
I apologize having said that. Whatwould you give lakimera? I'm not going

(18:52):
to do it? Six out often Okay, as I thought, M
rate at one hundred and thirty threeminutes, I'm giving a seven out of
ten, Peter, and I'm givingit eight out of ten. I really
liked it, right, So I'mright again because my average is the average?
Is that right? Don't know whatyou're saying to me, Peter?
Is that right? Hey? No? You know what? Okay? All
right? Fair enough? You areon jir ad AFM. Hey, subscribe

(19:15):
to u's fifty four bucks a yearat costs. That's all it does.
You're going to course listen for free. But we need community support. That's
what community radio stations are all about. I'm about the cough you talk about
yourselves for a moment. That goesdown really well on radio, does it
not? Peter? Where's that dumbbutt when you needed We needed that?
So? Yeah, speaking too much? Monkey Man No, sorry, I

(19:38):
wasn't referring to you, Petter Golly, I'm going to be sued, sue,
Grab it and run. Monkey Manis a name of a movie which
I've been wanting to talk about forsome time. Intense fight and chase scenes.
Yeah, I mean, if that'swhat you're into, this is one
hundred and twenty one minutes rated,and it's kind of like East meets West.
It's an action thriller inspired by thelegend. I'm going to mispronounce this.

(20:03):
You can correct me better or greatthe legend of Hanuman. There's a
deity in Hinduism who's quite strong andheroic and loving. And there's a character
called Kid played by Dev Patel,who loved his mother, Niela, who
was murdered when he was still young, and his memories of her are deep
and enduring. So all these leeyears later, Kid seeks retribution against the

(20:27):
greedy and corrupt officials that were behindhis mother's slaying, and in his sights
is a supposed spiritual leader called Babaand the corrupt chief of police, Rayna
Singh. And now Kid seeks outa meager living. He puts on a
gorilla mask. He gets beaten andbloodied in an underground fight club operated by

(20:51):
Tiger and Tiger's roll filled by CharltoCopley, South African actor. To get
to Rana, Kid finds additional workas a kitchen hand at a restaurant come
club operated by a ruthless individual calledQueenie, and she provides drugs and prostitutes
to wealthy clients who include Rayner Rainerseeing the Chief of Police. By prevailing

(21:15):
upon one of Queene's gophers, Kidgets access to the VIP area and a
bloody confrontation with Rayner follows. Alot more set out set to play out
before Kid finds in his ultimate revengeafter he's trained in mortal combat, which
brings mind and body together, hencethe East meets West. I think this

(21:36):
has got a lot in common MonkeyMan with the ultraviolent John Wick series,
although it is not as good.The plot again felt stretched and repetitive.
One hundred and twenty one minutes rated, certainly didn't sustain its two hour one
minute running time, and at timesI found myself switching off. I was
waiting for the elongated scenes to end. So as the co writer and a

(21:59):
first director, dam Patel has beenindulgent and if a look, he fares
better in the acting stakes, atleast if you buy into the smoldering volcano
persona that his character adopts, andso too Chaldo Copley, who is sleees
personified as the illegal fight promoter.Look. Even though I've been on multiple

(22:19):
visits to India and I thoroughly enjoyedthose visits, and people were lovely,
and the places to see it werequite intoxicating, especially the taj I listened
closely to what I was hearing andseeing, but I had difficultly understanding several
of the accents in this movie.Having said that, notwithstanding that the film
is visceral, which is the secondtime I've used that word today, the

(22:41):
lack of dialogue also concerned me.And yeah, the action scenes are well
choreographed, but I found the constantcamera movement the fast editing was quite distracting.
Got the impression that the filmmakers thoughtthat was the best way to attract
a younger audience. Also, muchof Monkey Man is obvious, you know,
relatively early on exactly where it's heading. Nor can I categorically say that

(23:03):
the journey is all worthwhile taking,mixing the mythical, the religious and the
kick. But actioner was a bitchtoo far from me. As much as
I didn't want to, I struggledwith this movie, which appears to be
heavily marketed as we speak. Alsoworth pointing out that I generally do like
tense action movies, the genre Ienjoy, but Monkey Man I reckon.

(23:26):
It's a try hard pick, butone that didn't come together as well as
I would have liked it. Towhat do you reckon, Peter? I
actually like this film because you did, right, we move on to because
it is actually a step above JohnWick. John Wick is a very straightforward

(23:49):
sort of revenge drama, full ofelegated as you've mentioned, action sequences and
so on. What Dev Patel hasdone in this film is he mixed that
sort of Hannaman superhero type religious sortof quality to trying to achieve something for

(24:11):
the downtrodden, for the poor,for those who are treated badly. And
I found it, well, he'stried. I don't think he's worked.
That's my concern. I don't thinkit's worked as well as it should have
worked, given that he is tryingto combine the mythical and the religious and
the action. That's why I struggled. Well, I think it actually works

(24:32):
because there is a real point orpurpose to the journey, the violent journey
that he's undertaken. And what Ialso found so interesting is the use of
transgender community and the gay community aspart of that downtrodden sort of atmosphere.
I thought this is a very cleversort of integration of how people are treated

(24:56):
so badly and revenge has to besought. Look, the whole fight club
sort of aspect is well achieved earlyon in the film, and the use
of the monkey mask to portray devPatel's character as potentially a hero who is
going to avenge the treatment of somany people I thought was well done.

(25:19):
And in fact, there's even areference to John Wick in the film itself
very early on, when there's acomment made about, oh, do you
think you're going to be a JohnWick? And I thought, how interesting
that he does a bit of selfreferencing to a possible influence on his film
Monkey Man. I like the ideaof defeating power and control with that sort

(25:47):
of aggressive sort of stance that hetakes in this film. I think he
did it very well. Yes,it's not a perfect film in many respects
because it does go on a littlebut nevertheless, I thought, dealing with
subject matter that isn't always dealt within this type of revenge drama, I
give him kudos for making I thinkquite an interesting film. Great, surely

(26:10):
you didn't think as much of itas Beta I. You enjoy this It's
a really perfectly violent, brutal andblood smoke coach revenge surer, which I
call an Indian John Witt basically.But I thought the action sequences were quite
well saved. This is actually somethingof a passion project for Badel, who

(26:32):
wrote the script and also directed thefilm. Yeah, he's been winding this
to be made for Long Top andGreg. That's quite true. Yeah,
and I think he proves himself tobe quite an interesting film maker behind the
camera there. The shows plenty ofpromise, and I like some of the
stylish, stylish choices he made inthe way he framed and saved some of
these brutal, fast paced and carefullychoreographed white sequences which showed influence of both

(26:56):
martial arts cinema and the kinetic actioncinema of Korea. And there's also a
touch of taxi driver thrown in forgood measure as he tries to protect this
crossing super works at the club aswell. So I thought that was a
nice time as well. I thoughtthe cinematographer should has had a good job
ensued in the action, capturing theaction with handheld cameras. Statism de sica

(27:18):
at all and creates a vivid contrastbetween the swams and the dirty streets of
the city and the bright neion interiorof the club where some of the action
takes place there. Yeah, Ithought this was quite well done there,
and tell as obviously worked out here. So Bill bulk up for the kick
ass action here. Who plays hereundergone a bit of a physical transformation and

(27:42):
this is a bit of a differentrole for him. He's better known for
roles in these like The Best BestExotic marigolda Hotel, some Jobionaire and nine
and that, But he's under gonea remarkable physical transformation here. And apparently
he suffered quite a few of injuriesduring the film in there because of the
physicality of all. But I justwondered, I could this be his your

(28:03):
audition? He would come the nextJames Bond. Well, that's interesting.
That's an interesting thought. Are youyou think he's got a realistic chance of
being the ext change Bond Well onyour show? And here he has this?
Okay. I thought a guy calledPitterbash provided some much comic relief with
his performance here, But I thoughtthe villain of the piece was a bit

(28:26):
of a one dimensional cardboard cutout withoutany real depth. Okay, well score,
I'll give you the low score.Then I'm giving it a six out
of ten. For Monkey Man,it's yeah, I wanted to be sort
of more cohesive, and it's ait's harder than twenty one minutes Greek,
what about you? Six to sixand a half? Okay? So okay,

(28:48):
so you spoke of it more fondly, but it's still only six to
six and a half. So Ido when I compare it to John whe
it doesn't quite rise to out heightsunlike Beta you and so Peter go on,
I reckon, you'll give this aneight to eight? And ah,
what are you giving? Just beforeI give it a score, I should
mention the film, even though it'sset in India, was actually shot in

(29:11):
Indonesia, so I found so interesting. Anyway, I give the film seven
out of ten. So only aseven after all this, So the average
is very close to what I wassaying. If I was a six,
Greg was what a six to sixand a half? You're a seven?
It's there we go, So doesit? Okay? What score does it
need to get to be a decentfilm? I would have thought a seven.

(29:34):
In general, generally, Okay,I want to know this from you,
Greg. If you give a filma seven, would that make it
a decent film? Yeah? Okay, Peter, of course seven and above
is a very decent score. Socollectively this doesn't quite get there close,
but no Cigar, Well, collectivelyyeah, oh yeah. Okay. Now

(30:00):
let's let's move to Let's move toorigin. Now, okay, so this
is a very Again, it's amovie that didn't need to be as long
as it is. I'll ask youthat straight off, Beata, what do
you think? Yes, it does, Greg, No, I thought it
was a bit too long and abit repeated for what it did. Yes,

(30:22):
I totally agree with you. Sookay, let me start on this
journey. It was an interesting conceptand it's spent a lot of time trying
to convince itself that it needed theleaks. But I just want two hours
twenty one minutes is what we're talkingabout, and it's righted. M Isabelle
Wicked Wilkinson played by Adjanu Ellis Taylordoes not know it, but she's about

(30:48):
to lose the two most important peoplein her life inside a year, and
a third is going to follow notlong after. So they're basically going to
going to go to God. Andthat happened soon after she published her first
novel, which one heard, thePulitzer Prize for Drama. So the litley,
I'll call it what it is,the litany of disaster in terms of

(31:10):
death, is more than most peoplecould bear. And yet, in spite
of everything that's crumbling around her,Wilkinson's Wilkinson finds a way to pen another
really piece of work, n Versesecond book and the triggers provided by the
editor of The Times called a personcalled Amari Selvin, a role filled by

(31:32):
Lair Underwood, he prevails upon Wilksonto write and an authoritative piece in the
wake of the slaying. You mightremember this name of African American Trayvon Martin.
Martin was killed at the age ofseventeen on the twenty sixth of February
twenty twelve. Find it hard tobelieve it's been that many years. It's
extraordinary. He was unfortunately fatally shotby a twenty eight year old Hispanic American

(31:57):
called George Zimmermann. Although Wilkeson tellsSelvin that she's on a hiatus or on
hiatus from the paper, from theTimes and from short form journalism or writing.
She agrees to listen to a recordingof the Martin shooting, and that
precipitates a deep dive into the originof oppression against peoples who are considered lowly.

(32:23):
Wilkerson insists that that isn't about racism. Rather, it's a reflection of
the caste system, whether that involvesAfrican Americans, Jews in Nazi Germany,
or Dullits in India. She maintainsall these people have been marginalized, and
she links the subjugation of the Jewsin Europe to the way Americans treated blacks.

(32:45):
She sets out on a fact findingmission. She travels to Germany,
she goes to India, and shetravels in her native America. Agree with
Wilkson's theory or not. The challengefor the writer and director avad Verni was
to translate this concept into an understandableand watchable movie. Her inspiration was a

(33:07):
book written by Wilkerson called Caste TheOrigins of Our Discontents. Diverna has chosen
an artistic interpretation, and although originis linear, Wilkerson's journeys punctuated by frequent
flashbacks to events that unfolded in herlife and throughout history. The latter harks

(33:29):
back to bold research in America's DeepSouth, to a Nazi meeting determining the
fate of the Jews, and theemergence of a heroic Indian figure. Although
the acting is heartfelt led admirably,I thought by and Johnnie Ellis Taylor,
the film took a long time totake off. Then it became repetitious and

(33:53):
is that word again stretched. Oncethe road that Wilkeson was on was established,
getting there came somewhat tortuous. Now, make no mistake, many of
the incidents depicted are truly shocking.In fact, they eat into one psyche.
But I couldn't help thinking I wasat university being lectured. And I

(34:13):
say that because the point seem tobe proving Wilkerson's theory, even though it
was questioned along the way. There'sno doubt I was moved by what I
saw, but I was still leftfrustrated by the circuitous route that the film
took. Also, I should mentionJohn burnin Thal he plays Wilkerson's husband,
Brett Hamilton. It is called Origin. It's one hundred minutes that this turned

(34:37):
into a hudred and forty one.In other words, what I'm saying is
one hundred minutes would have done mefine, Greek King, what about you?
Yeah, look, this is afilm that's got some big ideas and
yield with some heavyweight material, Butit is a film that I think struggles
to connect with the audience. Asyou mentioned, Derek, looks at all

(34:57):
these seen from the past, interestedthe treatment of the Jews in World War
Two, slavery was still quite confrontingimages there on the slave ships, the
concentration camps and all that kind ofthing. But I just found a film
that made it really hard to connectemotionally with the with the audience. It's
more of an intellectual It's a headbanger, that's right. Yeah, yeah,

(35:22):
scratch your head banger. I mean, look, I think it's one
of these things. Making esoteric meaningfulto everybody is a challenge that any filmmaker
can tackle that don won't necessarily succeedin in pulling off. It's conceptually it's
a good idea, Does it reallywork, Greeg I suppose that's my question

(35:43):
to you. No, it didn'treally work for me. I was scratching
my head at times, you know, just as you said, I found
some of it a little bit betterto do and a little bit cold.
Please are you're going to think thisis a masterpiece? Go ahead. I
really like the film Surprise Surprise,Yes, I know, and dislike anything

(36:06):
well wait for it. But anyway, Ava Duvernet is an underrated African American
filmmaker and she makes films that arequite distinctive about the black experience in the
US. I mean, look ather film Selma, which I thought was
such a wonderful film and so underratedin many respects. What she has done

(36:29):
Ava has done is taken Isabel Wilkerson'snovel, which has looked at investigating the
reasons why humanity is so hating ofother people, and of the lower caste
system being such an important aspect ofthat research. And so what Avera has

(36:52):
done is combined that sort of investigativejournalism and her own personal reflections as seen
through the eyes of her lead actress, angeenu Ellis Taylor, and turned it
into a story of journey and discoveryabout the reasons for man's hatred of other
men or other women, as thecase might be. And I found this

(37:15):
very impressive because it was a carefullycharted journey that Ava has taken in adapting
the novel and has come up withI think some very important issues and aspects.
Yes, it is carefully and slowlydeveloped, but I didn't mind that,
because the whole reason for a journeyis to take time to build up

(37:39):
the information and the eventual final outcomesthat the film comes up with. I
really liked the film. I thinkhad a lot to say and draws together
a lot of material which is notnecessarily that well known insofar as the key

(38:00):
aspects of that hatred and the coreof that hatred. So I really liked
the film. And there are someinterviews and some other things in the film
as well, which I think reallycomes together to portray this whole notion of
anyone who's lower caste is in forit. Do you think that she proves
the theory or do you think she'sshoving it down our throats? Well,

(38:24):
I mean any sort of theory hasto be proven, and I don't know
about shoving it down the throat.Did you not feel your being lectured?
That's the point that I was making. I I was in the middle of
an academic treatise, but I didn'tfeel I was lectured. I felt I
was led along a journey and apathway that gave me a very interesting conclusion.

(38:47):
Do you think the concept that Gregand I talked about a moment ago,
the idea of turning something that's esotericinto a narrative feature, which is
a real challenge. Do you thinkthis should be tackled the way it has
been tackled in Origin? Could ithave been done in a more universally acceptable
form that would have given it moremass appeal? Well, it looks you

(39:14):
could have turned it into a documentaryfor goodness sake. To turn into a
narrative which also has personal stories andother aspects to it, I think does
make it accessible to an audience.Yes, not everyone will necessarily want to
access that, but that's fine.I mean we have to be careful not
to dismiss a filmmaker's approach. Iget that, But Peter that okay.

(39:37):
If you are going to try andmake this more accessible, especially because of
its esoteric nature, do you notneed to be cognizant of not making it
stretching it out the way they did? I mean, a film can take
its time. It doesn't need tobe two hours twenty one minutes long as
origin was in this case, ittakes a long time to get there.

(40:00):
No, and that's fine. Iadmired the journey. It didn't bother me
one bit. All right, Gregyou're going to give it the lowmark.
I'm going to give a medium.So what's your lowmark for origin? Rateed
m One hundred and forty one minutes? We are struggle to collect with it
on a law of notion, Gay, I'm going to do it six out
of ten. I'm giving it aseven out of ten because I still think

(40:20):
it was worthy, but it wasn'tas good as it could have been.
And Peter, you will be givingit around about an eight out of ten.
Go on, you have read mymind eight out of ten for me?
So does that make me right again? Six? Seven? Eight?
What's the mid? Think you right? Or it might be left exactly?
Thank you very much. Okay,we are going to well do you do
you view that as an omen Peter? Maybe the first one? Thank you

(40:45):
very much, indeed, which isexactly what we're going to talk about for
the first omen. Now, okay, do you remember the original omen Peter?
I did Gregory Peck of course startin that film from nineteen seventy six.
So was the original Omen of firstOmen I did? Sorry, that's
that's a dad joke. That's agreat Why didn't you come up with that?

(41:07):
Please? I didn't want to holdyour limeline Ale. It's a sure
show. Thank you very much,all right, So there was an oment
of things to come. I thinkit is. I like I like the
original Omens. Along with the exerciseI did. It was one of the
great horror films of the seventies.Yes, yeah, absolutely well, the
mood, the music, everything,Bredery pit Pass against type a little bit

(41:30):
there, Lee Remitt and David Warneras a PRECICAD recipient. What did we
say, nineteen seventy six something likethat? Is that? What? Yep?
Okay? So this is about thefirst Omens, about the depths to
which the church will go to maintainpower and control. We're talking nineteen seventy
one, all right, So obviouslybefore the Omen came out. Yeah,

(41:52):
that gives you a couple of similaritythematic similarities to another film that came out
just a couple of weeks ago calledImmaculate and Make It Exactly, which I
still have to catch up on.This is about a young American woman called
Margaret Dano played by Nell Tiger Freegreat name, moves from America to Rome
to become a nun, and shewas awayward child. She was an orphan.

(42:15):
She saw the way forward when shewas mentored by and now cardinal Cardinal
Lawrence played by Bill Nye, andthe Cardinal is actually there to meet and
encourage the woman who simply loves lifeand loves the church. When she arrives
at the center of Catholicism, Danois what's called a novitiate, and a

(42:36):
novitiate is a nune in training theprobationary period, if you like, of
her spiritual journey. She's housed inan orphanage for girls run by the abst
sister silver Sonya Braga, who overseesthe nuns and the novitiates that live there.
And what greets Dano is hardly whatshe expected. First up, her

(43:00):
roommate Lose the Les, played byMaria Caballero. She has had much less
of a sheltered up ringing less ofa sheltered upbringing than Margaret Dano, and
she encourages Dano to let her hairdown and a big night on the town
follows. Secondly, at the Orphanage, Dano is rather intrigued by and takes

(43:21):
two the oldest girl there, CarlitaSkiana played by Nicole SaaS. I think
she's about sixteen. She's isolated,she's ostracized. Sister Silver warns Dano about
Skiana, but Skiana's witnessed horrors atthe Orphanage, to which Dano also becomes
privy. It's then that an Irishpriest called Father Brennan played by Ralph Innocent,

(43:47):
seeks out Dano to warn her ofa terrifying conspiracy within the church,
one that will come to envelop her. This is a prequel to the classic
Cora film franchise that began with RichardDonns The Omen of Course that introduced us
to Damian the Antichrist, the firstomen Well. It's co written, directed

(44:10):
by A. Kasha Stephenson and KasiaStephenson cut her teeth on TV series and
this marks her feature film taboot.Thanks partly to lighting and sound and some
eye opening close up photography or cinematography, it has shock value. In other
words, it bites before the storybecomes well. I reckon preposterous. I

(44:34):
did appreciate the white eyed innocence andthe realization that all is not what it
seems, displayed by Nell Tiger freeSo to the characterization by Sonya Braga as
the head of the orphanage who's privyedmuch more than she lets on. Maria
Caballero adds some spice as the partygirl None in the making, Ralph Innocent

(44:55):
leans into Israel as the troubled manof the cloth who is the worst,
and Nicoles the race provides an edginessas the orphan surrounded by a sinister darkness.
Before it's over, the filmmakers wereangled for a sequel, this being
a vehicle to reboot the franchise.How best to enjoy this? How best

(45:15):
to enjoy the First Omen? Suspendbelief, allow the jump scares and the
creepiness to take over, and thenI think you can get quite a bit
out of it. Called the FirstOmen Greek? What did you think?
An interesting film that it works asa prequel to the None ind seventy ships
original. There and there are afew moments that do reference the original film.

(45:38):
Earliest scene sets up extended scene Ithought resenting for another defenestration. There's
a scene where a nun is ona balcony saying this is all for you,
which also recalled a scene from theoriginal. Omen so that we be
careful to draw some connections between thisfilm and the original. You set it

(45:58):
up as a proper prequel there,so thenk some of the the manicalments are
quite strong there. I thought acouple of the performances were quite shut and
good. They're built. Lie sortof does what he does well, a
little bit uncomfortable, untrustworthy early on, a bit unctuous. The mother superior

(46:19):
the scene was quite intimidating. Ithought, did that quite well. And
as you said, a few jumpscares. A lot of action takes place
in dark lighting. There a slowbuilt of suspense and horror there. The
ending is not quite as graphic asthe inning of your maculate which I mentioned
before. There, and it's interestingthat that the that conspiracy theorists in it

(46:45):
are now coming out on social media. And in the original the child of
the Devil was called Damien Fawn inthe open and three he became president of
the United States with the industrial DTthe obvious link has been drawn. Mm
hmm, absolutely so heurists, wouldyou would you recommend this film? Yeah?

(47:07):
And there is certainly better than acouple of other Omen films. I
thought you quite well better than theawful remake that came out a few years
ago, would Leeds Schreiber, whichwas pretty ordinarily not a patch on the
first and the best Omen and thesequel Damian. Yeah. Look, it's
in mid mid mid midfield for me. In the Yeomen Mythology and the First

(47:32):
Omens one hundred and nineteen minutes ratedM. A. Peter, What did
you think of it? I thinkthe Catholic Church should set up a class
action against many of these filmmakers whoobviously see the Catholic Church and Horror and
the Antichrist and so on as beingsuch a significant aspect of filmmaking. I

(47:53):
think they need to have their revenge. Not let's be let's be honest.
The Church hasn't it exactly covered itselfin or in many respects as good as
religion can be, whichever religion itis. There's been people exploiting it,
shall we say? Certainly that isthe case. But in this film I
thought it was much more exploitative.I really felt this first Omen as a

(48:16):
prequel was unnecessary. I think itcovered so much in many respects of the
ground of the nineteen seventy sixth film. I think leading up to where that
film was released the OMEN, Ithought, look, this was fairly obvious,
the usual scares and blood and violent. Bill Nye obviously has become the

(48:39):
new Michael Caine. He's now takingany role that he's being offered. Child's
dance was there at the start ofthe film, but that was a no
brainer. And you'll know what Imean when you see the film. And
overall I felt the film was exploitative, silly, unnecessary, and I wasn't

(49:01):
overly impressedive and that was reasonably welldirected. Well you're going to give it
the low mark. I reckon basedon all of that. The first OMEN
in a one nineteen minutes, Sogo for it. Peter, I barely
give it five out of ten.Gregory six, I'm just guessing close to
five and a half. See I'mfive and a half six and I'm giving

(49:22):
it a seven. So there yougo. Five six, seven consisted today.
Alex eh very strange, I haveI don't know why what's going on.
Let me also mention you were inSydney when it was a torrential rain.
Had to be moved out of thehotel. I was at a couple
of weeks earlier and I saw theopening night at West Side Story and it
was magnificent, the performances, thestaging on Sydney Harbor. You have got

(49:46):
fireworks going up, going off aboveyour head, you have a police.
You got so much joy and delightin this story. And it's a story
that I've seen many, many timeson stage. But to see Side on
Sydney Harbor on a warm night waswe don't have anything like it. It
still gets me every time you goto Sydney a lot too Greek. It's

(50:08):
beautiful, isn't it the harbor normallyyes, if you can see it exactly
you you just chose the wrong timeto go. But I would highly commend
you can still see it if you'regoing up to Sydney over the next few
weeks you can. Yeah. Imean it is well well well worth seeing.
I really enjoyed it. And it'sOpera Australia that puts it on well.

(50:30):
It's actually a hand to opera underthe auspices of Opera Australia, West
Side Story and Absolute Ripper, andthere are lots of other shows that you
can go along and see as wellwhen you get to Sydney. I was
rather shocked the show that I saw, which was a national theater that came
out to Australia and it was calledThe Lehman Trilogy. Unfortunately, there were

(50:52):
three great actors and the guy reallytook our breath away, my wife and
I. He passed away a coupleof weeks after he did the show.
I just found it so stunning.I think it was sixty years of age.
I mean, just as terrible becausethis week Nathan Templeton, a forty
four year old journo from Channel seven, died unexpectedly as well. I mean,

(51:14):
I know, bad things happen topeople all the time, but somehow
you feel you know these people onceyou've seen them on stage or seen them
on the screen. And varlais toboth of those gentlemen and anybody else that
happens to have lost somebody near anddear to them in recent times or in
times past. So perhaps next weekI can also tell you a little bit

(51:34):
more about some of the other shows. There's a new David Wittism play on
in Sydney, which is well worthseeing. He's been in retirement he's come
out. He's done another show.It's called The Great Divide and that's at
the Ensemble Theater near where the GovernorGeneral's residence is and it's really worth seeing.
That basically is on till the twentyseventh of April. If you're going

(52:00):
to Sydney, that's a show thatyou should get along and see. I
might be able to tell you alittle bit more about that next week.
But it stars two big names,Georgie Parker and the other one is John
Wood. So yeah, it's it'schoppers and see if you can get a
ticket. Definitely worthwhile. That's aboutall we've got time for this week,

(52:21):
unfortunately, so Greg King, thankyou very much. That's all right,
thank you for having we and theRaculton from one Peter Krause, Hello,
hello and goodbye. Catch you nextweek, guys on First On Film and Entertainment,

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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S03E08: Unveiling Shadows: The First Omen and the Legacy of Fear

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark