S03E09: Love-All or Fault? Dissecting the Drama in 'Challenges'

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
First on film and Entertainment, AlexFirst with you alongside Greg King and Peter
Krause. Gentlemen, very warm welcometo both of you. I'm going to
start by talking about one of thegreatest individual efforts on the stage that I
have ever seen. And I wantto ask you, Greg, you know
the name Ruth Beta Ginsburg, doyou not? Yes? She is a

(00:23):
Supreme Court justice in America. Hereis a documentary about her and also a
bioped recently. Yes, so,Peter, you would have seen one or
both of those two. Absolutely,yes. Yes, there was also a
film made about her early life too. Yes. Well, this is a

(00:44):
Sydney Theater Company production obviously touring.It's on at Playhouse Art Center Melbourne.
Saw it on opening night, whichwas Friday evening. Oh my golly,
well, look, this is justa virtuoso performance by Heather Mitchell. She
metamorphous sizes into Ruth Bader Ginsburg and, unquestionably, as I said at the
outset, one of the greatest solotheatrical offerings this country has had the good

(01:08):
fortune to witness. If you getthe chance, I know you don't like
theoter, Greg, Peter, Rather, Greg, I reckon you would love
this. I think Peter, you'dlove this as well. She was the
second woman to be appointed to theUS Supreme Court, and Mitchell talks about
her lover, family, the law, and opera, and of course she's
also passionate about gender equality and abortionrights. It starts from a position where

(01:33):
she struggled to gain a foothold inthe legal profession, even though she topped
her year at Columbia Law School inNew York. And she had three strikes
against her, Namely, she wasa woman, she was a mother,
and she was Jewish. Now you'vegot to remember the time that this was.
And even though the marks were there, her intelligence was unquestioned. People

(01:57):
were reluctant to give her the ants. But when she did get it,
she was nothing if not fiercely intelligent. She was thorough, she was vociferous,
and she prosecuted case after case,many high profile for win after win.
So it starts in nineteen ninety three, and that's when Ginsburg's preparing to
meet the then US President Bill Clinton, and he has to decide whether Ginsburg

(02:20):
will fill one of nine positions onthe Supreme Court bench. So after their
meeting, she nervously awaits a phonecall that will determine her fate. One
of the many distinguishing features of thisexquisite offering by HEATHERN. Mitchell is her
ability to mimic the voices and accentsof some of the key players in rbg's
life. And we're talking about herbeloved husband Marty and three Presidents Clinton,

(02:46):
Obama and Trump. Resonating throughout thisdiscourse are the words of her mother which
call upon her to hold her outrageand that in her strict adherence to her
belief in setting the judiciary from theexecutive and as to that latter, much
to her chagrin, she slipped upbadly only once, and she spoke out

(03:09):
against Donald Trump during the twenty sixteenpresidential campaign. She was a huge backer
of Hillary Now. She had earliersurvived a tatar tate with Trump's predecessor,
Barack Obama, during which she encouragedher to step aside for a younger female
representative, and she took to exerciselate and also became a cult figure,

(03:30):
a pop icon known as they RememberThis the Notorious RBG, which was a
play on the late rapper Notorious Big. And she then graced the cover of
Time magazine she had people taking selfieswith her, She was made into a
meme. She had cups, shehad t shirts, she had bagsporting her
visage and did you know that shewas I wasn't aware of this, that

(03:53):
she was known to her love onesas Kiki. Did either of you know
that? No, that was anickname given to her by older sister Marilyn,
who tragically died from meningitis at theage of six, And the monica
was afforded because it's said that asa young and she used to kick her
legs all day, so she becameKicky. Grief and overcoming diversity, well,

(04:16):
they were themes that resonated throughout RBGof Maty One. Still, Mitchell
manages to channel the remarkable life ofRuth Bada Ginsburg with heart and soul,
with warmth, with human humanity,dynamism and dexterity, and she's flawless,
readily portraying RBG is feisty and formidable, just her, with only a handful

(04:40):
of props holding us the audience rivetedfor one hundred minutes without interval. Beautifully
written by an Australian British playwright,screenwriter, novelist, librettist lawyer Susie Miller,
who did that brilliant production of Primeof fac Is. She wrote that
and it moves back and forth intime, so stirring operatic interludes Ad Gravitas,

(05:00):
and the composer and sound designers PaulCharlier so too. The well realized
color palette in the lighting design byAlexander Balage, the costuming by the way,
leisurely exercise gear, judiciary robes,you name it by set, and
the costume designer David Fleischer. That'snoteworthy as well. It is the complete
package RBG at medi One. It'striumphant, it's dramatic at times comedic,

(05:25):
totally enthralling, directed with a plumbby Priscilla Jackson. Do not miss it.
If you see one production this year, this is the one you should
see. That is why I'm startingthis week's program with RBG of medi one
on at Playhouse Art Center, Melbourneuntil the twelfth of May. So I

(05:46):
mean, I hope I've wheted yourappetite, Gregory King, not really alent
why it's such a response to whatI've just said. I've seen the documentary
and the couple of films. Itit's seeing what it is anymore, because
I mean, it's like you don'tunderstand the difference between theater and film when

(06:08):
you've got it well, but whenyou've got no but when you've got a
human being in front of you,Greg, and you actually see it's that
extra dimension that it adds. That'sthe one thing. I love movies,
absolutely do all them. That's whyI love IMAX in particular, because you
know, when you've got that extradimension there, it brings it closer to
the closer to it, but itbrings you closer to the action. But

(06:30):
there's nothing like anything can change fromnight to night in theater. And they're
right, that's the thing that is. I don't know where I honestly don't
know whether you you see enough theaterto appreciate the difference, and that difference
is really marked when you see somethingof it. I've seen the others as
well, and I thought they wereterrific, but this is really a cut
of ARP. This is this isone of the best things I've ever seen.

(06:51):
Greg. So anyway, I mean, you don't I'm not forcing you
to go, but I was justdisappointed in your reaction. That's on.
So I'll put that on the recordnow I'm sorry to disappoint you, Alex,
but well that you do. Andas far as you're concerned, Peter,
you're lost, aren't you correct?You're totally lost. If there's a

(07:15):
film version of that theatrical production,I'll be happy to look at it.
Are going, both of you.This is a very very bad start,
all right, We are right oneighty eight FM. I'm deflated after that.
Having said that, let me talkto you about The Fall Guy,
which, well, it's fun.I mean, there's lots of action,

(07:36):
there's airy scenes, there's eye jinks. It's a romantic comedic drama. It
runs for a bit two hours andsix minutes and it's rated him. Colt
Siever's played by Ryan Gosling. Whata fine actor he is and Emily Blunt
likewise. He loves his job,he loves his life, and he's a
big movie stunt man. And he'sa body double for an arrogant action star

(07:57):
called Tom Ryder played by Aaron TaylorJohnson. More than that, though,
Colt Sievers is head over heels fora camera operator called Jody Marino. That's
the role filled by Emily Brunt Bluntrather and she aspires to be a director,
So the two of them, Willyare head over heels for each other,
as he says, he's working withhis dream girl on a dream job,

(08:18):
and of course they love the momentsthey steal away together. But Ryder
doesn't like to see Severs hog thelimelight and so that cannon does involve reshooting
scenes. Riders indulgences This is theBig Action star played by Aaron Taylor Johnson
are countenanced by his longtime producer GailMeyer played by Hannah Wattingham, who recognizes

(08:43):
there's big money to be made bysatisfying her charge. And then on one
such reshoot, everything goes horribly wrong. A free fall ends tragically with Severs
breaking his back and that puts himin a dark place, which sees him
push Marino away, even though shewants to be there for him. So
we move on eighteen months and he'sin a dead end job parking cars for

(09:07):
a living. Then he receives anunexpected call from the producer Gail Meyer,
and she tells him that Marino ismaking her first movie, which is an
alien fantasy, and wants Sever's backon set, this time in sunny Sydney.
For anyone else Severs would say no, but this is not anyone else.

(09:28):
In fact, Meyer has lied toSever's about Marino's wishes. Rena had
no idea Maya was calling Sever's andtruth be told, Tom Ryder has gotten
in with a rough crowd and gonemissing, and Meyer is anxious to track
him down before the movie goes bullyup, so that becomes Sever's job,
alongside shooting stunt scenes and winning backMarino's broken trust and heart. This time

(09:54):
though, instead of shooting blanks,the bad guys mean business and at the
helm of the fall guy is formerreal life stunt man David Leach. She
did Fast and Furious, Hobbs andShaw, among other movies, and the
script is from the Hobbs and Shawscreenwriter Drew Pierce, based on the TV
series of the same name that ranfrom nine eighty one to nineteen eighty six.

(10:15):
Leave ages. Of course, itwas cult Severs in that television series,
But the key to this is orchestratedmayhem, explosions, car chases,
rollovers. They are par for thecourse. It all looks mighty impressive overlaying.
It is good natured nonsense and it'sa tribute also to the unsung heroes
of Hollywood. Of course, thestunt performers no shortage of in jokes by
way of references to other movies.Some of the stunts, by the way,

(10:39):
in this stunt laden movie are spectacularindividually also collectively. Gosling and Blunt
perfectly cast an easy going, naturalchemistry between the pair, and both,
let's be honest, a mighty fineand likable actors, so they click from
their first scene together. They evenmanaged to pull off a series of cheesy
one liners that liberally populate this It'sin the realm of pure escapism and fat

(11:03):
It's lightweight entertainment that you can justallow to wash over you but enjoy at
the same time. Hannah Waddington isa regular presence as the pushy producer hiding
a dark secret. Her deliberately ingratiatingperformance really serves to irritate, just as
it's meant to. And Aaron TaylerJohnson well captures the petulance of the action
hero who thinks far too much ofhimself. Shot on home Soil, I

(11:26):
mean that should go down a treewith local audiences. Sydney looks great and
it is loads of fun. Filmmakershave thrown the kitchen sink at it with
big name stars at the helm andit works. And I've got to say,
do not leave before the final creditsbecause the behind the scenes footage of
the stunts is well worth seeing.Did you like it, Greg King?

(11:46):
I thought it was a bit offun, said. Some of the sunt
work here is fad Jessican, butthe plot itself is so generic and it's
basically hawk of which to ham thatthese fanjastic sons highlight for me with the
chasing, the skip across, throughthe career control, through the streets of

(12:07):
Sindeo, over the bridge and everythingSydney looks great to gain them and see
why they shotted here, And thisfill gets by on the chemistry between Blunt
and Bozzling alone, they great,but I just thought the chemistry was fabulous
between the pair. Really, Ithink that parish the film a little bit.
I think that's really good. Therealso behind the scenes stuff about how

(12:30):
some of these sons operate is alsofantastic. The Sun Ben and and some
heroes of the film industry risking lifeand limb for the sake of entertainment.
There and there have been a coupleof films that have explored the role Southman
Rovabody Hooper the Burt Reynolds film,in which he was a Vesterment Sudman in
the Rivalry with a younger up andcoming Sun and played by Jan Michael Vincent,

(12:52):
and of course the Southman was SevingRalph Back and Pedero Toole. But
this one is a lot of funand the sunts a truly fantastic I like
the Hannah Wantington Parris issue is abit of a nass fall out during the
scenery. There Aaron Taylor Johnson,okay, as the arrogant, nacistic action

(13:13):
hero who does I'm usually talking upto does his own stunts. But as
I said, the plot is alittle bit unbelievable, a bit far fetch.
But yeah, look I was onscreen. It's always a lot of
fun. And there are a coupleof delightful last minute cameos here that sort
of set the scene. So itis a bit of fun. Leave your
brain at the door, Yeah,I mean that's true. And I'm just

(13:37):
trying to think have there ever beenany more Has there ever been any more
stunts in a movie? There wasjust so many of them, and I
kind of wondered that the other fourpardon me, John D four. Yeah,
but I mean the fight, thefight in the middle of the Trump's
and there's tumble down the stairs fightingand Piggy all the way. I do

(13:58):
you remember that? But I'm justsaying that that the sheer volume of one
after another after another, I meanthe full Obviously, it's called the full
guy for a reason. The otheris the fall guy. Also because you've
been set up, say to blamefor a grime. Correct absolutely double double
meaning correct the other aspect here,Peter, I want to know now what

(14:22):
fall guys? Well, what stuntmen get paid and women? I'm curious
because you know, they very rarelyget the claim that they deserve. And
it just got me thinking, well, you know, how do you if
you make a living as a stuntmanin Hollywood? What what would you get
paid compared to the millions that thestars of the films get paid? Any

(14:43):
idea? No, But Yakima Kannut, who was a famous stunt man in
Hollywood, often commented on how sucha small percentage of the film's budget was
allocated to stunt people and to othereffects. I'd like to think that maybe
that's changed somewhat but perhaps that ithasn't. I mean, surely the danger

(15:05):
money alone, you'd have to bebecause I wonder how many of them.
Can you imagine doing this for aliving, you know, crashing into things,
being rolled over, et cetera.What it does to your body long
term? Can you? I justyou know how you would know nothing about
this beta because it's about sport,but you know, concussion and things of

(15:26):
that nature, which it's being talkedabout so much in this day and age.
It have to that would have tobe one of the talking points for
stunt people, would it not?Well? Of course, but they are
trained, very carefully trained and certainlypresent day stunt people are very careful about

(15:46):
how they look after themselves and tomake sure that they're not hurt in making
a film. So so, Iwould hope. So, okay, did
you enjoy this, Peter or not? So so? I I found this
a rather flashy, underwritten film inmany respects. I thought the murder plot

(16:07):
development was ridiculous. I thought someof the characterizations, like Hannah Waddingham who's
channeling Olivia Coleman eating the scenery wasa little bit over the top for me.
And and yes, sir Gosling andBlunt are pretty good together. They're
well matched. Yes it's well shot, Yes there are some good special effects.

(16:30):
But I still remember the days ofand I was there at the launch
of Buster Keaton's films. Sorry,I mean you were already in midlife at
that stage, won't you, Bruno. That's flattering yourself. I mean,
can you actually can you tell meabout the days when electric light was invented?

(16:51):
Can you know, perhaps take usback there, give us a bit
of a dissertation. Well, I'dlove to, but those days were so
difficult because watching tell television by candlelightwas ridiculous. Please please, please go
on in Neanderthal and you keep going, Okay, Well, I just wish
the script was better written, andbecause I hark back. Apart from the

(17:15):
Keaton films, which are full ofwonderful stunts, the nineteen eighty film that
Greg refers to, The Stuntman withpedro O'tole, which had a really good
storyline and dramatic effects in it,and the TV series with Lee Major's as
you mentioned, was very good aswell. And the film The Fall,

(17:37):
which is about oh fifteen, twentyyears old and was a wonderful look at
an early stuntman and his travails.Look. Yes, it's flashy, it's
well done, it's quite good towatch. But I just didn't feel that
it was strong enough in terms ofthe writing and in terms of the storyline,
and that's what I always look for. That I would agree with you,

(18:02):
Peter and Greg as well in thatregard that it's it's it's not the
best written film ever made, butI suppose I took it for what it
was, as I say, lightweightentertainment. I'm going to give it the
highest mark, I believe out ofall of that. So let's start with
you then, Peter, because you'llgive it the low mark as usual,
the full guy m he did runfor two hours six minutes. And your

(18:22):
score, Yeah it's okay, fiveout of ten. Yeah, that's all
I expected. I should have saidto you straight away, Greg, you'll
be a little bit more generous.What are you going to going to give
it? As I thought? AndI'm giving it a seven and a half,
So there you go. I shouldbe I should be predicting your scores
before you give them, mate,rather than sort of say commenting afterwards.

(18:42):
That is that correct? Now Iwant to go to a movie with a
Jewish theme that opens this week andit's opened at film festivals and it's opened
abroad. It's called Golder, andit's PG rated. It runs for one
hundred minutes, and it's about Israel'sfirst and only female Prime Minister gold in
my ear, who served in thatcapacity from nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy

(19:03):
four. And not surprisingly, she'spainted as tough and unrelenting. So the
greatest challenge for have you ever seena movie with more smoking in it?
Please? Can you explain that tome better? Good golly, that was
humble, seriously, your heavy smoker, and that was aloud in the time
Ian, including in the hospitals apparently, Yeah, but not just her.

(19:26):
Greg, Like, if you don'thave a cigarette in your mouth, you're
not an actor. It's kind oflike it's almost it's almost like lighting up
itself as a character a way ofcoping with stress. Don't you think that's
the old save you've been a theaterput it how it should know. You've
got to give the people stuth todo with their hands. Right. I'm
not going to even comment on thatany further, Greg, but thank you

(19:48):
for that. Look the greatest challengefor Gold in my ear was navigating a
conflict that could have finished Israel forgood, which was the Young Kippor War.
And the Israelis really were caught nappingwhen Egypt and Syria launched a coordinated
attack or attacks plural on Israel onthe sixth of October nineteen seventy three.

(20:08):
And I mean, wider does thatday resonate? Well, it was one
day before fifty years on we havethe war that Israeli is currently fighting in
Gaza, So I mean, yeah, anyway, we'll get back to that
in a moment. Although intelligence hadsuggested war was imminent, the Israelis hadn't
mobilized earlier when they could have,and that had to do with Hubris as

(20:30):
much as anything else. So Goldadeals with that three week war and it's
aftermath. I'm talking about the YoungKipure War, focusing on the pressure that
the Prime Minister was under. GoldI'm talking about the movie. So what
was kept secret at the time wasthat she was also fighting cancer. But
the movie isn't just about her.It's also about those around her, including

(20:51):
her then Minister for Defense, MoshaDiane, who's painted in a very negative
light and Chief of Staff David DardoElazar, So how many troops to mobilize
at the outset. That was justone of the points of contention. Vital
to the outcome of the war wassupport from the Americans, and that's where
the Prime Minister's relationship with the USSecretary of State Henry Kissinger was critical.

(21:12):
Bear in mind that, of courseGoldemeyer was also born in America, so
they had a very strong relationship.The movie that's Born in Russia. I
was born in Russia and then wentto America. Is that right? Radith
raised in America? Thank you you, yeah, thank you Greek. Sorry,
I apologize and thanks for correcting me. The movie juxtaposes gold as political

(21:34):
whiles with the close ties she hadwith a longtime personal assistant and confidant,
Lou Kadar, and the war devolvesto an individual level when the son of
a typist within Goldameyea's ministerial department iscalled into service. It's been written by
Nicholas Martin, who was responsible forwriting Florence Foster Jenkins, and is directed

(21:57):
by Guy Nativ who did the movie'sskin and Well. He was born in
Israel. This is Guy now TIVthe year the war broke out and grew
up with stories about the war.It deals with the politics of the time
that's integral to the ultimate success thatIsrael had, but that was far from

(22:17):
easy or straightforward. As he's shownin this movie. Helen Miren makes for
quite an astounding Golden May her representationof the PM uncanny in terms of movement,
the makeup artist. They've done anextraordinary job with the prosthetics, the
air and more, and the actualstory unfolds through visions that May has while

(22:40):
relaying her take on what happened toa Commission of Inquiry that was assembled in
nineteen seventy four to investigate why thiswas allowed to happen and they didn't do
more to prevent it from happening,et cetera. The Omkeipol War and all
the failings that went along with itand the lead up to it. So
Mirran represents Maya's weary, but totermin and defiant Camille Cotton paid it as

(23:02):
devoted in Stoic as personal assistant LukeAdar, who comes out as Maya's rock,
so also impressive. I thought LivSchreiber as the Krmen measured us Secretary
of State Rotim Keenan is a straightshooter. All businesses Zvi Zamia no Pun
intended with the words straight shooter.Who was ahead of Masad, which was

(23:26):
Israel's national intelligence agency. I'd mentionedbefore. I was a bit intrigued by
the representation of Bosha Dian by RamiHerbo Hoboger as rattled after he flew to
inspect the extent of the initial impactof the war on Israeli fighters. He's
seen as not really capable, whichI found rather interesting. But this remains

(23:48):
very much Helen Mirren's film. Shedoesn't put a foot wrong. It's tension
filed. It requires concentration to follow, though it won't be everybody's cup of
tea. I actually I don't usuallydo this because I don't have time,
but I was prevailed upon to doan interview with the director of this movie,
which I did on Friday, andI spoke to Guy and I TIV

(24:11):
about it, and he said,look, it totally changed. This was
going to be an eighty million dollarblockbuster and it was all going to be
based on action and then COVID hitand they had to rewrite the movie.
They shot it during COVID, theyhad to sort of they did a total
retake, a rewrite, They introducedthat character of the personal assistant, and

(24:32):
you know, totally changed from amovie that was based on eighty percent based
on action to it based on meetings. That's what you get here. So
I mean the budget would have beena fraction of what it originally was set
out to be. I'm not surewhether that eighty million was an actual figure
or it was just a generic commentaryabout how big a film it was going

(24:52):
to be before COVID. So look, it's a movie, as I say
that, it's not going to beeverybody's cup of tea. But it plays
out through those meetings that Prime Ministerhas, the phone call she took and
made, rather than through the actualfighting that took place and underlying it as
Goldenmaya's personal travails. I mean,she's seen through it all as dignified and

(25:14):
determined. And one thing I reallydid notice was an effective device the use
of close ups and extreme close upsthat focused on gold in my ear.
You know, her eyes for example, they're served up, they're presented as
windows to her soul. So thedirectors ensured that the intense pain, the
scrutiny, the decision making of theTimes are writ large. That was my

(25:37):
take on Golder. Peter, Whatabout yours? Yeah, I agree with
you. I think it's a reallywell produced film. And I similarly also
spoke to Gay Native about making thefilm, and he gave me that the
same information that you've just mentioned,especially Nicholas Martin, who wrote the screenplay,
who did a great deal of researchto be as accurate as possible about

(26:03):
the meetings that took place, thesmoking and that everyone was smoking. Oh
boy, it's amazing. We couldsee the film from the smoke. You
needed a filter or something to beall right, So look it. As
the film developed and turned into thisproduction that was shot in London, I

(26:26):
think it actually is quite effective interms of portraying the steely eyed nature of
Golden Maya and her approach to defendingthe attack that happened from Yom Kippur in
nineteen seventy three, and also theway she defended everything that she did and

(26:48):
was very resolute in trying to saveas many lives as possible. It was
great to see Liev Schreiber as HenryKissinger. I think he does a very
good so yeah, in the role, and it was good to see Israeli
at Leo Ashkenazi as one of thedefense members in the cabinet. So look,

(27:10):
it's a it's a well made film. It's a it's a pared down
film. It isn't as expansive asI would have liked in so far as
knowing more about Colder Maya background,et cetera. Although guy did say that
they're making a mini series about GoldenMayir at the moment. But overall it's
a well made film. And weshould mention that guy Nativ who directed the

(27:33):
film, has an Oscar because hewon an Oscar for his short film Skin,
which he then eventually turned into afeature film. So yes, I
thought it was a pretty good film. What about you, Greg, Well,
when I was watching, I thoughtof you, Alice, at all
the smoking scenes there, and Ithought you'd shake your head that Yes,
that's probably the name of realism there, and Alen Aran is almost unrecognizable.

(27:59):
Here is Golden with all our makeup, which apparently took about three and a
half hours every day to put onwell in fact, But I asked that
question, did you you as well? Peter? Did you ask that question?
About how long it took, andthis was the answer. She got
in at four point thirty in themorning. It took three and a half
hours to put it on, andit took an hour and a half to
take off every day. And Isaid, well, and how long did

(28:21):
you shoot for? Thirty five days? Greg? You worked that out thirty
five days times five hours, right, just for the makeup. I'm amazing.
I agree with you. I meanit's also I mean, guys said
that Helen Mirren's seventy eight. Isthat right? That's her age? I
don't know, but I mean shedid it. I thought she was remarkable

(28:41):
in this, Greg, did younot? Yeah, she is really stronger.
I would like your seeing that otherversion with some more of the action
scenes in there as well, becauseyou're hearing about a war and seeing that
you it will be detached from whatit was, but it just feels up
the suspense there of what's happening there, especially for those who aren't sort of

(29:04):
aware of the history of how we'reall unfolded there. But it's quite a
revelation into what actually happened there aswell. Leave sure I beg all right?
As Henry Kissinger in a small role. But this is Helen miren stim
I think, and she sort ofrises to the occasion and it delivers a
great performance there, conveying both herstrength, their intelligence, but also that

(29:27):
vulnerability there she's undergoing that fight withcancer and that fear she says is they
every take in the air of everytape, tel Aviv, I don't want
to be a prisoner. You knowthat, So you know it shows the
strength of character of her. Remarkable. There have been some parallels drawn with
the Iron Lady, of course cameafterwards, but I mean they were different

(29:52):
characters, there's no question about that. So yeah, I mean it's a
it's a strong film, but it'sdo you agree with me, both of
you that it's not going to beeverybody's tea Hello? Well, I don't
know, it could be. Well, I just think that it's for those
people who want action. It's notthat sort of movie. It's action in
a different sense. It's tense frommeetings rather than whatever. I think.

(30:17):
I mean, I still think it'sa worthy film, don't get me wrong,
But it'll be interesting to see whatsort of audience it gets. I
reckon I'm going to get. Well, Okay, I think we'll probably be
reasonably similar in terms of scores withina point here. Let's start with you,
Greg Golder, PG rated, andit runs for all of one hundred
minutes six and a half the sevenmm and you better. And we should

(30:41):
also mention that the film was USCARnominated for its makeup and hair design,
so Helen Merrin did go through alot to be part of that film.
I'd like the film seven out often. Yeah, and mine's seven out
of ten as well. So yeah, as I expected, it was sort
of very very similar territory. Okay, so you are on j eighty eight

(31:03):
FM, and if you want tocontribute to the program, if you want
to contribute to the station, fiftyfour bucks a year gets you membership.
Just consider it. Go online jdashair, dot com, dot au. And
yeah, that's what community radio isall about, support from the community.
Let us look back at I don'tthink we've spoken yet about Freud's Last Session,
have we, So let's do thatnow. And that's a movie that

(31:26):
is one hundred and nine minutes induration, M rated, and basically it's
a meeting that probably didn't take placebut could have between the father of psychoanalysis
and a fated author and they discusswhether God exists. So that is the
centerpiece of Freud's last session. Freud'splayed by Anthony Hopkins, is in failing

(31:48):
health. He's struggling and with deathapproaching, he remains heavily opinionated. He's
actually taken an issue with a Britishauthor called C. S. Lewis.
Matthew Good plays him, who's comeout as a believer and he's written about
his faith. Even though they don'tknow one another. Freud invites C.
S. Lewis to his home fora bit of a chat, and when

(32:10):
he arrives late, as Sigmund,Freud points out more than once, he
starts rationalizing and Lewis responds their discussionwell, it's cerebral. Neither backs away
from their previously stated position. Throughthat process, we find out about the
backgrounds of both of them, andthey emerge through flashbacks and dreams because each

(32:32):
of them has experienced deep emotional pain. Then he got Freud's daughter Anna played
by live Lisa Frees, who createdthe field of child psychoanalysis, and she's
got an extreme attachment to her fatherand he really has far too much control
over her. She also has luridfantasies and is in a lesbian relationship that

(32:52):
her father does not countenance. Forhis part, C. S Lewis will
he's formed a special connection with afriend's move up, having suffered trauma while
he was on the front line biting. Both of them, both major protagonists
feared death, and as the titlesuggests, Freud's last session, the conversation

(33:13):
between the pair of them will turnout to be Freud's last substantive one.
It's based on a play by MarkSaint Germaine. I think that's part of
the problem, because it looks likea play, and sometimes you can get
away with it in the movies.I don't think you could on this occasion.
He wrote the screenplay with the directorMatt Brown. I did prefer the
second half of the film to thefirst, and that's when what made Sigmund

(33:34):
Freud and C. S Lewis whothey are really started boring out. Until
that point, much of the firsthour, well, I reckon it appeared
really all but appeared as space fillingwaffle. Yeah, sure that Fred and
Lewis spoke with one another, butit was esoteric conversation and it felt like
the filmmakers were intent on blinding patronswith verbiage for the sake of it.

(33:55):
I saw that as a fault ofthe writing actually, which needed to be
expressed in language that was more readilyrelatable. It wasn't a fault of the
acting as a device. I thinkthe flashbacks work, but it was the
material around it that had to beemancipated. Again, that's the word that
I would use. The performances weresound. The production values in the film
were also sound. Hopkins played Freudas verbally dexterous but flawed. Good was

(34:19):
more restrained and respectful as C.S. Lewis, and live Lisa Freeze
was dutiful and harried as Anna.Look as a window to the world,
Freud's Last Session highlights the vulnerabilities andthe failings in all of us as human
beings, be that the learned orthe unschooled. Learning to endure and managing
grief, distress, sexual proclivities.Well, it's a lifelong mission, all

(34:42):
of which can only end one way, and that is when we meet our
maker, whoever that might be.So. Freud's Last Session, as I
say, rated M runs for onehundred and nine minutes. Greg, what
do you think, hi look,I found this a little bit of heavy
going there, a bit like that'sall we swalked about a couple you know
origin where the discussion is about bigideas, big scenes, but it didn't

(35:05):
really engage the audience there. AndI agree that this one is fairly constrained
by theatrical origins. There are acouple of stements by the director Matt Brown,
opening up a little bit. Youget that subplot following Freud's sort of
Anna there, and also some flashbacksto Lewis's experiences in World War One that

(35:25):
shakes him and his attitude there.But this film is heavily dialogue driven and
most of it takes place in Freud'sstudy there, so it doesn't really escape
as theatrical origins there, which isnot very cinematic. But the film explores
some big ideas there, human fraility, the facility of war, just grief,

(35:51):
and of course the existence of Godand religion and sex. But I
thought Hopedin, through his great hereas Freud is full of bluster, is
very gives. It is intelligent,and Hopkins is one of those actors you
seem to get better with age.He seems to be enjoying a bit of
a verble patch await in his careerthere and massive would also was good as
Lewis there. It brings a senseof dignity and restraint to his performance there.

(36:15):
And I thought the production design wasgood recreating Freud's study there. But
yeah, the esthosaric conversations, asyou said, now, don't really connect
with the audience there. Yeah,so I think there's a small film that
will rig a small specialist audience there. And ironically, as in Hopkins played

(36:37):
C. S. Lewis in anineteen ninety three film, Paul shadow Lands,
Ah, yes he did too,well done, well picked up.
Yeah, good stuff. Now,Peter, you're the Caulcion from one.
Are you going to say this isa masterpiece or you're going to agree with
Gregor and I I'm going to agreewith both of you because I am into
this film expecting it to be areally strong discussion about life and death and

(37:01):
so on in this hypothetical meeting betweenC. S. Lewis and Zigmund Freud,
and I came away thinking that thescreenplay was so superficial and really didn't
get into really underneath their philosophies,their thinking and so on, it just

(37:22):
remained very typical sort of banter,which really disappointed me because I wanted a
much stronger screenplay than was presented.And yes, I know it's based on
a stage play, and yes,the whole thing is of course hypothetical,
but nevertheless, I would have expecteda deeper insight into Freud's philosophy of psychotherapy

(37:45):
and his attitude to religion or antireligion and C. S. Lewis's strong
Christian principles, and I just feltthe film didn't go far enough or didn't
do anything much to really explore thoseissues at all. So yeah, well
acted, but very disappointing film.Yeah, okay, so let's start with

(38:08):
you then, Peter, and you'llgive it a five or something of that
nature, would do correct five outof ten. Yeah, Greg, I'm
pretty much the same. Yeah.Look, I mean I thought it was
okay, but not much more thanthat, so I'll give it a six.
So again, we're in sort ofsimilar territory in terms of talking about
that movie. Look, it's it. I wonder I hadn't seen the stage

(38:31):
player. I presume you have aney agree, no, no, so
it'd be interesting to see what differencesfrom the stage play if any there were.
Have you got any insight into thatat all, Peter, in terms
of whether there were many changes tothe script or you don't really know it
either. I'm not absolutely sure,but from what I know is it was

(38:52):
an adaptation which tried to be morecinematic but kept most of their dialogue that
was on stage. Yeah, fairenough, and that's what it appears that
way, And sometimes these things canwork very very well. But it's a
challenge, no question about that.On eighty eight FM, let us talk
about Jean de Barrie, which isa sweeping period drama and it covers the

(39:15):
rise and fall predominantly the former ofthe primary lover of a former king of
France, who was born Jean Becou, played by Maywn miwe double n.
That's the actor's name, and JohnBecou was born on the nineteenthbal With seventeen

(39:36):
forty three. She was the illegitimatedaughter of a monk and a cook,
brought up by her mum of lowlystock. She rode to the King's bedchamber
quite an intriguing and circuitous one,marked by her intelligence, her artistry,
and her industriousness. She's charming,she's witty, She longs to climb the
social ladder. Soon enough, sherecognizes her sensual in sexuality and she becomes

(40:01):
a skilled courtaizan. Her benefactor,the Compte de Bari played by Melville Pupart,
grows rich through her amorous encounters,and all the more so when she's
introduced by the influential Duke of RichelieuPierre Richard to a notorious womanizer, being
King Louis the fifteenth played by JohnnyDepp in his first French language speaking role.

(40:29):
So it's intoxication first sight, andthe King quickly declares her his favorite,
while she unapologetically ignores propriety and etiquette, and she gets away with it.
And to show his affection for her, the King gives her a striking
expensive necklace and wait for this,an exotic young black boy. Bear in

(40:52):
mind we are talking it's totally unacceptable, but we're talking about the seventeen hundreds.
With the help of his valet laBoard played by Benjamin Laverti, King
Louis moves Jean into his Versailles pallace, sparking both derision and scandal. Now
Standing in the way of their brazenlove affair are three of the King's four

(41:12):
daughters, who show her ill willand ridicule. The arrival of Marie Antoinette
played by Pauline Polman, who wenton to become the last Queen of France
before the French Revolution, marks yetanother tipping point in this movie. The
director and co writer may One herjourney to bringing Jean de Barrie's story to
the screen began after seeing Sophia Coppler'sMarie Antoinette in two thousand and six,

(41:37):
and she felt a very strong connectionto the character played by Asia Argento,
but she needed to feel confident shecould actually do justice to the subject matter,
and that took over a decade,and that during that time she immersed
herself into learning more about de Barri. She also undertook other projects. But
the movie's been sumptuously filmed in thirtyfive millimeter on location at Versailles. Well,

(41:59):
arguably it's the palace to end allpalaces. I mean, having seen
it, I can attest to thatit is really quite something, very very
special, something that you should seeonce in your life at least. So
it features majestic costuming and production design, really richly orchestrated series of striking performances
foremost of most, I thought MayOne was terrific, excelling as the woman
that plays a dangerous game, displayingwarmth and wanton abandoned in that role.

(42:23):
Benjamin Lavery, master of diplomacy andrestraint as the King's trusted personal attendant.
I thought, well, he fedwell enough, mostly by virtue of the
cow telling that goes on around him. In his role as rule he doesn't
have to say too much, butit's quite something that he's taken on a
French language film. Good on himfor doing so. The cinematogerel Lawrence Dayland

(42:43):
has done a fine job capturing theopulence and the allure of the palace and
the pomp and ceremony that goes onaround it. It's look as a film,
Jonder Barry. It's spirited, it'salluring, satirical historic drama with flourishes,
and I thought, for what itdid, it did it well?
What did you think, Peter?I didn't mind the film. I thought

(43:05):
it looked some truice. It waswell filmed, and May When is such
an interesting filmmaker. Her film Police, for example, from a few years
back, is a superb film,and I thought this one she hasn't quite
got it for some reason, eventhough it's quite enjoyable, the idea of
this woman who has this journey frompoverty to being a cortisan and being part

(43:30):
of Louis the Fifteenth Course, etc. I don't know. I felt it
should have been a much stronger film, more emotional, and more depth to
the characterization and to the relationship withJohnny with Louis fifteenth played by Johnny Depp,
who, by the way, speaksFrench almost like a native. So

(43:52):
I was very impressed by Johnny Depp'scharacterization. Look, I didn't mind the
film. I thought it was okay. It's, as I said, well
produced and well acted. But Ijust felt it was lacking some sort of
emotionality or tension, And in fact, the only tension in the film is
when we know that the French Revolutionis about to occur at the end of

(44:15):
the film, and I thought,boy, this could have been such a
strong film. So mildly disappointing forme. Okay, I obviously thought a
lot more than you did of it. Greg, You'll probably be closer to
the middle of us rather than meor Peter. Would that be true?
Probably? Yeah, I thought thiswas visually sumptuous. The costume for Fantasic

(44:37):
Larriish costume drama there depicting the lifeof the eponymous heroine John de Barry,
was interesting in the way she gulvedinto some of the politics of the port
of Larida fifteen that I thought thatwas interesting, but I wanted more.
Didn't lack any real drama here.I thought it was just sort of going

(45:00):
along there. I wanted more ofthe drama, the tension of the court
there. I like the character ofthe board played by Vegamin Laverne there,
who was her sort of sympathetic characterwho helped advise Gene on her behavior,
and how in Gracia ingratiate yourself he'sin the court there. I thought at

(45:22):
first the passing of Johnny Depp wasa bit of stunt passing, but he
sort of carried the role quite wellthere. He bought that sort of fobbish
presence, pompers presence that are rolethere. I thought may One was quite
strong in the role she played here. This is apparently one of the most

(45:42):
expensive productions from France, but atwenty three million dollars budget can all be
set on the screen with the productiondesign, the costumes and all that kind
of stuff. That's quite spectacular there. And apparently some scenes were actually allowed
to shoot in Versailles, which ismost unusual. And yeah, pinhatographer Laurence

(46:02):
Daylud I thought captured the opunce andgrandeur of the setting and apparently greeting up
on this prove review on the fivefilm, Barry Lyndon was apparently a huge
influence on the look of this film, which you can understand. And there's
a lush orchestral score from Stephen Warburck. This will appel the fans with those
kind of costume dramas historical five weeks. But I thought, like Peter,

(46:28):
it probably could have been Stromber inits depiction of the court in trees going
on there. I certainly recognized elementsof a SI like I did Sydney in
the movie that we just spoke aboutearlier today. But have you been there?
Have either of you been to thesign Yeah? Briefly? Okay,
well, yeah, certainly back therein January. Oh one wonderful, excellent

(46:52):
Peter. You've been to France though, have you night or not? No?
I haven't, Ah, Okay,Well, next time you're in Germany
you can. I know you're abig, big advocate of the German Film
Festival. You can deviate. It'snot far away. You can go and
go and see Paris. Anyway,Having said all of that, I think
you'll give it the low score,Peter, So let's suggest that you're going

(47:13):
to be somewhere in the five tosix territory. What do you reckon?
Yeah? No, I thought itwas okay, but Marley disappointing six out
of ten. Yeah, there wego, Greg, you'll be somewhere in
the middle. There, So thesix six plus, But what are you
going to give it? And asI said, like that dramatic intension,
I thought it needed to be strongat with the polyip polytips and that kind

(47:34):
of thing. Whereas I really didenjoy it for what it was, and
I'm giving it eight out of ten. Jean de Bari is the name of
the movie. M rateed one hundredand seventeen minutes in duration, so we
have got time to talk about Challenges, which is a movie that we also
should pay a bit of attention to. It's M rated, it's one hundred
and thirty one minutes. Now,it is hard hitting, it's it's sort

(47:58):
of this hard hitting. Yes,thank you very much. You do the
puns, don't you agree? Sonormally Joe, but as love all at
the moment, thank you. Currently, well we need a tiebreaker, then,
don't we? Can we keep ongoing? Pretty well? You know
nothing about tennis. It's all right, don't worry bout a lob whenever you
like better than so many balls inthe air here. Okay, so this

(48:23):
is a hard hitting let me startagain. This is called challenges. We're
not talking about puns anymore. It'sit's sort of You've got this focused rising
tennis prodigy catching the eye of acouple of best mates. That she catches
the eye of a couple of bestmates who are also on the circuit,
who compete for her affections. AndI mean it's a dramatic, comedic romance.

(48:46):
It's directed by Luca Guerdonnino. Itdid call Me by her name?
What a great movie that was.Patrick Swy is played by Josh O'Connor,
Art Donaldson by Mike Mike Faced.So Josh O'Connor Mike Faced. The two
actors and their characters, Patrick andArt have been best friends inseparable since the
age of twelve. Successful in juniordoubles at the highest level, but Patrick

(49:10):
is the better of the two players, and with a smirk all but permanently
affixed to his face, he's alsomore of a player in inverted commas in
a sexual sense of the word.It's Tashy Donaldson played by Zendiah, who
turns their collective heads in more waysthan one, and I speak about how
she approaches the game as a combatsport as well as her undoubted sex appeal.

(49:32):
So suddenly it's game on, shallwe say? As Patrick and Art
first share their mutual infatuation, beforethe situation off court becomes highly competitive as
well. So again Patrick wins outinitially, but Art is playing the long
game, and in time, thelatter becomes a world force in tennis,

(49:53):
while the former doesn't make the mostof his opportunities and Patrick falls on hard
time times. An injury ends Tashi'spromising career. She moves into coaching,
becomes Arts coach, and marries him. But Art's always struggled with the mental
side of the game and he's goingthrough a lean patch, and that's when
Tashi advocates he win back his confidenceby competing in a low paid Challenger event,

(50:19):
So that's where a lot of theup and comers play rather than on
the main circuit. And who shouldI come up against in the final of
the tournament none other than his oldally who's now on adversary Patrick and the
pairs long since fallen out. Tashitoo wants nothing to do with Patrick,
or does she? It spans thirteenyears until twenty nineteen. Written by Justin

(50:42):
Kirker, I'll try that again JustinKurt's Keys and he creates his taboo screenplay
after establishing himself as a playwright.And he was inspired by watching a rather
controversial match between Serena Williams and NaomiOsaka in the year twenty nineteen. As
a say, it goes up tillthat point. It's also about the dynamics,

(51:04):
well, it's about the dynamics ofpower. It moves back and forth
in time, in fact, fartoo frequently for my liking. It deals
with attraction and motivation. Tashi Donaldsonis the center of attention. Just who
does she find really appealing? Isit the well meaning wimp or is it
the bad boy? And why?And look while I deal with my Luca
got Anino's catalog of filmmaking, whichhas also included The Big A Bigger Splash,

(51:27):
Suspiria, Bones and All, justto name three. I thought the
slow moving, elongated scenes without dialoguein challenges really started to bother me.
In fact, they became tortures.Even the up tempo music score, which
initially caught my attention favorably, becamea millstone before the movie ended. And
if the filmmaker's intent was to annoyhis audience, it certainly worked on me.

(51:47):
Look, I greatly appreciated Zandia's intensity, though, I thought her performance
as the highly motivated Tashi was great. I thought that O'Connor's laid back approach
was good too, but not somuch as Hallmark grinn that was overly used.
I overused it, you know.It didn't need to be used as
often as it was. Nor wasI sold by Mike Face casting as the
good guy. I struggled to believehe was a major championship winner and that's

(52:12):
what he was painted as, Soit needed I reckon this movie a less
is more approach. As it was, it felt stretched way beyond acceptances.
That last scene alone just kept ongoing. It made me want to scream.
So yeah, relationships can be oftenare complicated. Long before the final
credits on this credits, on thisdeep dive into this threesome, I wanted
out so conceptually it was a goodidea in terms of execution, while not

(52:38):
without some merit. And I alreadymentioned that Zendaia was terrific. I was
calling literally for a tiebreaker for afterabout ninety minutes, I mean it kept
on going two hours eleven. Soyeah, that's my take on challenges,
Peter, what about you. Iwas very disappointed by this film, particularly

(52:59):
because Luka go and you know,is such a good director. It was
quite clear that he had no confidencein the screenplay, so he did his
best to paper over it by concoctingthis menajatire and this homo erotic sort of
subtext in the storyline, by puttingmusic into it which really didn't belong in

(53:22):
the film at all, and infact overlaid some dialogue and correct. That
was the thing to me as well. But we were limited in time,
so you didn't you basically didn't likeit as much as you want to do.
No, I didn't. And eventhe special effects with the tennis ball
and the rackets and so on,I thought he just he was not confident
with the story and so he triedhis best to do this Etu Mamma Tambian

(53:45):
sort of remake. So Challenges wasa real disappointment to me and Greg in
sixty seconds or less your thought,I thought chanson between the three characters was
quite palpable, and the extended challengeit makes itself became a metaphor for the
relationship between the three. There isan enormous undercurrent of eroticism here. But

(54:05):
I agree that the music score,the techno score, overrode some of the
dialogue there, became obtrusive and overbearingin some scenes there. And I thought
some of those idiosyncratic and stylist directorialflourishers that he and his cinematography used to
bring the tennis match alive sort ofbrought a bit of energy to the tennis

(54:28):
match itself as a visceral and highlycinematic approach there that put us into the
match share. I thought the chemistrybetween the thread Leeds was also palpable,
and who's a raw carnallysy so Ithought face had a boyish quality. So
I can think, overall, outof ten Greg, what would you give
it? I'll do it six outof ten, only six, Peter,

(54:51):
very disappointing four out of ten.Wow, failed it? Gee was I'm
giving it a six and a halfout of ten. Boys were out of
time and we're going to do itall again very very soon. First on
Film and Entertainment, Greek, thankyou so much, Peter, thank you
kindly, and be good to oneanother. Catul later on on First on
Film and Entertainment,

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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S03E09: Love-All or Fault? Dissecting the Drama in 'Challenges'

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark