S03E11: Media Evolution: From Hey Hey to Streaming Giants

**Host:** Alex First
**Guest Critics:** Greg King
**Episode Summary:**
In this heartfelt episode, Alex First and Greg King delve into a rich tapestry of topics, starting with a tribute to the late John Blackman, a cherished figure in Australian media. The conversation then meanders through the changing landscape of television and media, touching on reality TV, streaming services, and the impact of these changes on traditional formats. The episode also features in-depth reviews of the inspiring film "Radical" and the animated sequel "Inside Out 2," along with a discussion on the atmospheric stage play "The Woman in Black."
**Highlights:**
- **Tribute to John Blackman:** Alex and Greg reminisce about John Blackman's significant contributions to Australian television and radio, highlighting his quick wit and enduring legacy.
- **Media Landscape:** The duo discusses the evolving media landscape, the rise of streaming services, and the financial challenges facing traditional TV networks.
- **Reality TV:** A candid conversation about the appeal and controversy of reality TV shows, with Alex admitting his guilty pleasure in watching "Married at First Sight."
- **Radical:** An inspiring film about a revolutionary teacher in a poverty-stricken Mexican neighbourhood. Alex and Greg praise the film's emotional depth and impactful storytelling.
- **Inside Out 2:** A review of the much-anticipated sequel to the 2015 animated hit, exploring the complexities of teenage emotions and the film's appeal to both children and adults.

**Closing Note:**
This episode of First on Film and Entertainment offers a poignant mix of tributes, media insights, and thoughtful reviews. From the legacy of John Blackman to the emotional journeys in "Radical" and "Inside Out 2," and the chilling atmosphere of "The Woman in Black," Alex and Greg provide listeners with a nuanced and engaging discussion. Join us next week for more in-depth film analysis and lively conversations.
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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
First on Snap and Entertainment Alex firstwith you joining me Greg greek King,
Good morning, sir am I,good morning, Alison. Wants have told
you again? Now look before wego any further. I finished last week
and mentioned our colleague unfortunately who passedaway, whose name is Jane and beautiful
human being, that she was oneperson that I wanted to speak about that

(00:21):
I didn't get the chance to wasJohn Blackman's passing, and I wanted to
acknowledge that because I dare say youand I both grew up watching John Blackman
on Hey Ay at Saturday. Ialso worked with him at three AW and
he was quite the personality. Sohe's a man who always treated me with
a great deal of respect. Obviously, he enjoyed a fruitful career both on

(00:44):
radio and in television. He madean ill fated move away from three AW
for a while, which not everybodyagreed with, and in hindsight, maybe
he wouldn't have done. But hewas a loyal three AW man to the
very end. He was speaking toa lot of AW personalities, et cetera,
et cetera, And I should declarethat on occasions I am also on

(01:07):
three AW, but I've also workedwith the ABC and a number of other
radio stations, so I'm not beingprotective of one or another, but I
am talking about what a great guyJohn Blackman was. What's your experience with
him? Even as a listener orwatch up. He had a quick and
wonderful sets of humor there and itwas an integral part of the Saturday Family

(01:30):
on those Saturday night shows there withhis little introgentions, as Sticky knew and
some of the comments from the side, I feel it's very, very sad
that we don't have anything on televisionat the moment, notwithstanding the comedic elements,
but like the Rove interviews et cetera, et cetera that also took place
in Don Lane and Burt Newton,et cetera. Where you know, the

(01:51):
stars that come into this country,often movie stars, et cetera. Where's
their vehicle to appear? Maybe themorning television programs, Maybe you've got the
project, et cetera, et cetera. But it's not as consistent as it
once was. And I still believethat it's an audience for that sort of
thing. It's just a question oftapping into it. But maybe it's too
expensive, I'm not sure A probablyis now yeah, I mean, it's

(02:15):
it's interesting the changes that are takingplace in media and the media landscape quite
quite significantly different. Of course,this week we hear about more retrenchments at
commercial television and free too wear TVvery very difficult thing to sustain, very
difficult, and even a number ofthe so called reality programs they cost so

(02:36):
much to put to wear that they'rebeing pulled. Not that they're not getting
ratings, but they're just too expensiveand stations can't afford it. Having said,
what you already already is though,that when they first started, they
thought that all these reality TV showswould be cheaper to produce than scripted dramas.
That's quite true, that's quite true. But I mean, I don't

(02:57):
know, do you do you watchanything like say, s ority TV shows.
I think yes, fatic time gowell, until you've experienced them,
it's it's a it's a general judgment, but I think some are better than
others. There are also many ofthem, of course, are mind in
controversy and there, I say,in a broader sense, sex cells and

(03:19):
that's the reason that they do whatthey do. It's it's kind of like
a guilty pleasure. I can honestlysay I don't watch a lot, but
I have watched married at first sight. There you go, I declare,
and it's it's it's this morbid fascination. Call it what you will. But
once you get hooked, you gethooked. And I suppose that's the same

(03:43):
thing with whatever you do. Imean, I'm hooked on the mighty fighter,
Guess and and football machine ar IGregory. So we took to the
almost obsessive. Of course, Iam upset, I'm obsessed, and I'm
obsessed with seeing Alton beat This iswhy I'm not in a happy place at
the moment. Green and talking abouthappy place, Yeah, you're not in

(04:05):
exactly a happy place with your sideeither, But that's not new, is
it. But I wish I couldplay more like they did on Friday night
against Brisbane. I agree, Iwas Look, they lost that game in
the first quarter like the rest ofthe game they were playing catsh up,
but they were a lot more aggressive, heart at a ball, fast running
and they could go one hundred pointrychange. Yes, in fact, it

(04:27):
was your higher school, wasn't itfor the year, And yet you were
beaten by a highest score or so, and you were within seven points.
I watched that and I thought,here's your run, here's your run.
And then that fifty meter penalty wasawarded, and that was the end of
the Betty section, so to speak. Getting back to John Blackman, though,
one of the things about him washis longevity in the media, because
it's hard, it's hard to constantlyhave a gig. And I was listening

(04:51):
to an interview I think it wasLate Night, was Last Sunday Night with
Simon Owens and Philip and they wereinterviewing Darryl Summers, and they said the
relationship sort of almost started in amatter of fact way, because he was
this guy in a discombobulated voice ina booth, and it just sort of

(05:13):
it started with a brief conversation.Suddenly there was an interjection from upstairs,
I hope I'm representing this accurately,and then the voiceover man I think it
was Murray Tregoning, became involved,and soon it became legendary. And I
must be very amusing if you're anoverseas star suddenly appearing on a program and

(05:34):
you get a wooden head on itand a bit of hair and a cap
suddenly appearing in front of you.Can you imagine how a number of them
would have felt, what the hell'sgoing on here? That was part of
their joy because you know, itwasn't pre emptied, It just happened.
And there was a bit of chaosabout the show too, and we used

(05:54):
to love it. It was sucha popular program, and it lasted for
such a long time because it startedas an afternoon cartoon show, didn't it.
I hate Saturday. That's my recollectionof it. Yesterday Morning parttern show
host you by job or Somebody's here, Yeah, which is so? I
mean, look, TV's obviously changedirrevocably much now is on on pay TV.

(06:15):
Do you recall we talked about footya moment ago that they said,
oh, well, you know,all all football or cricket, you know,
it'll always be on free to wear. Of course it's not anymore.
If you want to watch every game, you can't tune into Channel seven and
watch every game. You can't,so you either had to subscribe to you
know, Foxtel or Ko or oneof these services. If you're a footy

(06:35):
enough enough like you and I sodo you? How many games of footy
do you watch or do you onlywatch your own team? There's a bit
on who's playing what night and whenthey play. I can't watch everything on
over four or five days. Doyou do you subscribe to any of the
services like Netflix et cetera. Igot Netflix, but actually anyone I got

(06:57):
besides Fox Cell And do you watchmuch or not? No? Not as
much as I used to when Lockgowwas on. You know, obviously you're
working again, so it makes itbe working, not remotely that. The
other aspect of all of this,though, is in terms of covering what
we do, namely movies. Thereare so many good movies on streaming now.

(07:18):
They pay so much money, right, they really do pay a lot
of money. I was speaking tosomebody the other day who said, I've
just seen the Film of the Yearand it's been downloaded I think from an
American site rather than Australian one,because he's got access to it. But
it's it's one of those things thatif you you missed them. I don't

(07:39):
think it'll be too long before astreaming service film wins Best Picture at the
Oscars. I think that's why we'readding, And you know, I know
that it's not what a lot ofpeople want, but you can't. You
can't prevent change. And that's Ithink we were having this conversation, was
it last week? We're talking aboutthe potential well death of a number of

(08:03):
cinemas because people aren't going out andwatching movies. They're watching it in there,
in the privacy of their own homes. And they're doing that increasingly as
televisions get bigger and brighter and better. And you know, you can be
there in your underwear if you want. Nobody's going to question it. It's
a more convenient form of attending.Having said that, let's talk about a

(08:26):
couple of movies. One that ittook me a while to catch up with,
but I'm really pleased I didn't.I know you've seen it. It's
called Radical and you're on JA eightyeight FM, Greek King and Alex first
with you. So there's a quotethere from Albert Einstein which says, the
only thing that interferes with my learningis my education. Now you're an educational
list of many, many decades standing, Greg, I have this to say

(08:50):
to you. I wish that myeducation was better and much more practical than
it was. I just think thatthere were things that could have been taught
the weren't that would have helped ona day to day basis, whether it's
about managing finances, whether it's aboutdriving skills, whether whatever it might be.

(09:11):
I just think that preparing for life. You could argue this is your
parents' responsibility. But you're in alearning environment five days a week, and
you know, writing long dissertations andthings of that nature that you do in
an English class, and you're anEnglish teacher. I questioned the real value
in it, you know, learninglearning how to create an email, short,

(09:33):
sharp sentences, things of that nature. I would have found much more
valuable. What do you think whenyou were a schooler's sex seniors? The
internit So that is no, that'strue, no, no, But but
I'm trying to get more more wellmore more practical fills. Wise, you're
typing at school, which comes intoreally well, so that's brilliant and talking,

(09:54):
so that's your skills. Have settme out as well, I didn't.
I think that's exactly what I'm talkingabout. That's terrific. See,
I went to a school that wasterrific when I started. By the end,
by the time I ended, itwas a start at school that I
don't think anybody wanted to go to. Was that my fault? Maybe I
don't know. No, I didnot enjoy my education at all, wall

(10:15):
I found it tertiary more but Idid not enjoy school one little bit.
At high school. Found it reallyif you wanted to learn and somebody else
around you didn't, you'd be bulliedbecause you wanted to learn. It was
a really toxic environment, which ismost unfortunate. It was, as I
say, the school that initially competedwith Melbourne High and all those it was

(10:37):
a public school. But yeah,I didn't didn't find it was It gave
me the skill set that I reallywanted and I got most of my socialization
outside school quite frankly. So doyou think it's better now? I mean,
you teach were you teach in aschool? So do you think your

(10:58):
school without naming it, it doesa good job in terms of educating and
preparing its students for the future.It seems to be. But different schools
offer different programs and all that,some more geared towards also vet courses in
that kind of thing, which checksaccuse more practical skills as well the stuff

(11:20):
that they used to do in theold chich school before they close them.
No wait, but Greg, whydo you have to wait till the age
of seventeen to learn those skills?I don't know, because a lot of
kids sorted by tilers fifteen, Iswitched off school, and that's when the
problem starts there they get distressed andbored. Sure, but I don't anyway,
And Alex, let's talk about themovie instead of your experience at school,

(11:43):
which is not the same as everyoneelse. No, but again,
this is a we're on a podcasttype situation as well as well as in
a radio program, and part ofit movies spark things in you. So
when I was watching this movie,all these thoughts came to bear. That's
the reason that we're talking about it. And I'm relating it to Albert Einstein's

(12:03):
quote. I mean, right,the only thing the thing that interferes with
his learning is his education and looks. So it is in a place in
Mexico called Matta Moros, and we'retalking about twenty twelves. It's a new
idealistic teacher that's sort of by theday with Sergio who arrives at an elementary
school. So it's a poor neighborhood. Poverty's entrenched, crime is rampant,

(12:26):
corruption well is everywhere, and inmany cases, just to survive, children
are dropping out of school very early, right, So basically you talk about
school kids who are twelve years ofage finishing and not going any further because
the parents can't afford not to havethem work or helping them. So there's

(12:46):
a set curriculum with a national testof knowledge based on that curriculum at the
end of each year, and onlySergio stirs the pot and he's the one
who totally upends conventional thinking about howto teach children, how to get through
to them. In that process,he tests the patiency and the understanding of

(13:09):
the school principal whose name is Chucoh, and he gets other teachers offside.
He actually risks his career by goingswimming against the tide. And his philosophy
is simple, get the children andhe teaches grade six engaged. Get them
engaged, want to get them towant to learn so they can live up

(13:31):
to their potential. And he doesthat by making education fun by turning the
playground into a classroom. But hedoes not think have things all his own
way. It's based on a truestory radical. It runs for one hundred
and twenty six minutes to our sixminutes rated m and it focuses on the
character played by Sergio and his passionand conviction and the impact he has on

(13:54):
those with whom he comes into contact. We also get a firm read on
the head of the school and ahandful of the teacher's twelve year old students,
three of them in particular. Nowamong them is one called Paloma.
She's quiet, she's whipped smart.She lives with her father next to a
rubbish chip like a really horrible,large, smoldering mess of a rubbish dump.

(14:22):
He barely the father manages to barelyscrape by collecting and selling scrap metal,
and the daughter, Paloma, aspiresto be an aerospace engineer on the
way to becoming an astronaut. Andthe second she'd actually see across the border
because it sound sounds she'd here acrossinto one of the NASA space stations there,

(14:43):
which adds to a frustration. Absolutelyyep, it's out of a rick,
out of a rig, and basicallyshe may never achieve it. The
second child is Loupe, the oldestin her family, responsible for looking after
her younger siblings, and she hasa fascination with philosophy. And basically,

(15:03):
I think there are already three childrenin the family, and the mother is
pregnant again and Loupe one will forthe fourth time, third time carry the
workload of looking after the baby anyway, and then there's Niko. He's destined
for a life of crime because likehis older brother Cheppi, he's already entrenched

(15:24):
with the gang. And suddenly Niko'shead is turned by this remarkable teacher.
So this is the story of thechildren and the story of the teacher.
And I don't know about you,but I was deeply moved by what I
saw. I teared up several times, did you Greg or not? Did
you tear up? Cheer up?So really I did not, but I

(15:46):
did feel empathy and moved by thestories. Well, I thought it was
full of joy and heartache. Andit's a remarkable tale of fortitude in the
face of overwhelming odds. And whilethe story itself is compared, it's undoubtedly
the characters that make the film asgood as it is. And the guy,
the teacher, is a revolutionary ofsorts, hence the title right radical,

(16:10):
He's changed the status quo. He'smade possible what for all intents and
purposes, had been impossible. Sothe guy, the actor who plays him,
I thought he was terrific, reallygood Eugenio do Bears is his name
dB Z, and there's a lotof humor and heart in the way he
portrays the characters such a natural thatthe other one, who I thought was

(16:30):
really good natured, was the principlereally incredulous at what he was seeing.
Is this sort of larger than lifecharacter played by Daniel had Dad Again,
I thought he was very, verystrong, and it's sort of very cynical
and up up at the start,but it comes most of seriously. Results

(16:51):
is become a champion Surgio, doesn'tHe He does very much saying Look,
I thought that the children were terrific, soult of the earth, credible,
each of their own personality, distinctpersonalities, wide eyed, pragmatic, but
they dared a dream. And sure, as the premise unfolds, I don't
know, when you say a littlebit more about it, you might agree
or disagree. But I could tellI was being manipulated to feel a certain

(17:14):
way. But I totally bored intowhat was being sold. That's the beauty
of this movie and the photography byMatteo Lundono. He's really done a great
job. He's made the most ofthis evocative third world setting with settings plural
that the film takes place in.It's based on an article, by the
way, that was written in twentythirteen twenty thirteen in Wirde magazine by Joshua

(17:37):
Davis, and that was titled ARadical way of unleashing a generation of geniuses
Unpleased. They short circuited that toradical, but that's the starting point for
all of this. I thought itwas a really superbly rendered script, really
fine direction as well from Christopher Zala, and it shows how one person can
make a difference for the greater goods. So I thought it was a rific

(18:00):
film. What did you think?Great? Yep. Look, Cinet has
given us a lot of inspiring teachersover the years who disregard the Saffy curriculum
and set down to engage their students, encourage them to think for themselves and
reached the essential people like Robert Donutin his oscoining performance in Goodbye Mister Chicks
and for a Lesser at sent pedroOtool in the nineteen sixty nine musical Roommake.

(18:22):
Of course, we had Sidney Poitierand Deserve with Love, Robert Williams
will called William in Deed, PoetsSociety, Michelle Fine for in Dangerous Minds,
Edward James Olmos in Sand and DeliverOrus Sweet in Freedom Writers, et
cetera, and John Voyd in Conrad. And now we get a Mexican variation
on this theme with radical As yousaid, even though it is manipulus,

(18:44):
if you go along for the rideof this story of this teacher who scherves
up in this small, impoverished villagerife with crime and corruption, and if
he even bucks heads with the localhead of the bureaucracy there, who has
missed appropriate added funds intended to buycomputers for the school, gets him into
trouble as well. When he getsthere, he finds that most of the

(19:08):
school kids there feel there's no escapingthere impoverished circumstances, they've given up,
their parents, don't value education atall, and this school has the uninviewable
reputation of being one of the worstperforming schools in Mexico. The teachers that
jaded, and all they do isprepare their students for that standardized government mandated
national exam at the end of theyear. But Sogio comes along up into

(19:32):
the judicial curriculum and said, inspiresthe kids to see for themselves in powers
them to follow their own interests,and they become more engaged with the process
of learning and discovering things for themselves, and we gain insight into as you
pointed out, three of these pupilsthere and where become invested in their faiths.
Paloma who has a passion for massand science, but who looks like

(19:53):
she's going to be forced to runthe local landfill from a father Lupe,
as you said, who's interested inphilosophy by his books in the library to
read at home, but she's beenforced to stay at home and look after
a new born baby sister. AndNico setting for a life of crime with
the local Ruggy and actually finding thiswhole inspired by Sergio's unorthodox approach. The

(20:18):
film's go into some dark areas attimes they're a little bit grim and that
and the violence of the streets comesalive there. But that's what gives it,
that's what gives it real and ultimately, you know, if it was
a walk in the park it wouldn'tbe the movie that it is. And
basically not everything works out perfectly.I mean that that's just the and that's

(20:40):
that Unfortunately, that's reality and that'swhat that's the reality of the setting where
the film is set. Yeah,but it's written and addressed by Chris Rasala,
who's a New York based filmmaker who'sfilms lots of episodes in the law
in order to see the franchise.This cook is most insightful and moving,
but as you said, it isalso somewhat man to do and it's a

(21:02):
fully a bit of a formula forthis sub job were there. But it's
a real cloud, Greg, We'redying slowly, right, It's a real
crowd plays that I thought here andas you said, the performances are great.
Jebez comes across like a Mexican JohnKeaty as Sergio there is well cast
in the role as the dedicated andempathetic teacher. He brings passion, charm

(21:26):
and humor's roots before us there hadas was also solid as by the book
Principal and the Young Students supports oflife by a number of newcomers and non
professionals, many of them in theirfirst ever film role who bring authenticity to
their roles? Did you like kids? Did you think the kids were as
good as I thought they were?Yep, I like that. I thought
the three main waves were really good. And at the end of before we

(21:47):
learned about what became a polomer andher story is truly inspirational. Yeah.
Absolutely, And I mean bear inmind that this is this is still happening,
this is not the teachers still apparentlyat the school, which sort of
gives it even greater cogency. Sowhat are you going to give this terrific
movie and encourage people to go alongand see radical. I'm going to give

(22:08):
it a notice in Yeah, I'mgiving eight and a half out of ten.
So, yeah, it's one ofthe better movies of the year,
without any question. I've really lovedit. Now another one on j eighty
eight FM listened twenty four hours aday. You've got all sorts of hopefully
intelligent programming and got good music aswell. And if you want to subscribe
fifty four bucks go to jdash airdot com dot au and we'd love to

(22:32):
get the money because it keeps thecommunity radio station running. But inside out
too. Now Okay, I rememberthe original and I thought, what a
great film, because that won anOscar for Best Animated Feature, didn't it
back in twenty fifteen. So itwas a really interesting movie about emotions.
And this is sort of continuing thesame trajectory. You've got the emotions that

(22:57):
were apparent in Inside Out, andthis is a a sort of Disney feature
film. He got joy, fear, anger, disgust, and sadness.
So they were there originally and inthe movie nine years ago. So all
of them are back along with anew set, and that new set anxiety,

(23:17):
envy, embarrassment, something called nuiwnui, and even nostalgia puts in
an appearance. So five becomes ten. So the key character is Riley Anderson.
She's the one who was featured inthe original. She's now thirteen,
and so it is that a redlight goes off at headquarters, headquarters being

(23:41):
you feel like her brain, whichundergoes a sudden demolition, and the original
set of emotions are shocked with theunexpected arrival of what shall we call them
rogue emotions greet and that's when anxiety, envy, embarrassment, and anui come
to the four And as I mentionedand the storage on we alex on what

(24:03):
what is this on? We asa fas that's right, they make a
point of it. Yeah, theyIt was easy for me to say anui
because it sounds it looks like annui, but annoy whatever you said. Anyway,
we on we on, we onwe and and is called we we
isn't isn't it? At some point? Anyway? This marks the onset because

(24:26):
Riley being thirteen of puberty for her, and that also throws Riley's parents into
a state of confusion because you know, basically they're no longer the flavor of
the month. And and she pushesback and she throws tantrums, and you
know, that's that's what it's allabout. And I suppose that's where it's
true to life. Puberty can bringwith it all sorts of difficulties for parents

(24:48):
as well as those experiencing that particularphase of their lives. So Riley and
her two best friends, bri andGrace, are good ice hockey players,
and they are at short notice invitedto participate in an ice hockey camp which
serves as a tryout for the allconquering high school ice hockey team and Riley's

(25:11):
rather starstruck when she gets to thecamp and she meets the team star player
called Vow or Tears, and Riley'sfaced with a rather difficult choice of trying
to curry favor with Val and withher teammates, or sticking by her school
friends. So anxiety muscles in onJoy's territory. I mean, joy was

(25:33):
the biggest emotion that was apparent inthe first one, and anxiety muscles in
now adopting a wintered at all costsmentality, which will see all the old
emotions shunted into a vault. Sothings go rather skew with and while the
old emotions scramble to get back toher, Riley's left to try to rediscover

(25:57):
her true self. She's basically apretty nice person. So like the original,
this one's pretty clever. It's colorful, and it's comedic, and there
are valuable life lessons in play.But this isn't sort of shoved down your
throat. It's just the way thatthe movie unfolds. There are some pute
one liners, and each of thecharacters I thought was very well crafted,

(26:18):
So you've got distinct personalities that areallowed to shine through. So You've got
from uptight to cynical, from goodnature to harryd and collectively they make up
Riley Anderson, this thirteen year oldwho, for all her inherent goodness,
does not always do the right thing. That's the nature of human beings,
of course, so her traditional emotions. Grand Adventure also sees them interact with

(26:44):
I counted four characters, Greg,you might be able to film me in
if you could see anymore. Therewas Bluffy Blafy, character from Riley's favorite
television show in her childhood. Andthen there's a deep seated purse with a
bag full of tricks called POUCHI andLance slash bladeer heroic video game character whom
Riley had a crash on when shewas younger. And I don't remember which.

(27:08):
I remember the name of the thehulking shadow we figure. I think
Big Dark Secret was that, canyou remember? Or not? Really?
Not really? No, you knowthat you know at the very end of
the movie, you stayed to landwith the credits, and that was Big
Dark Secret anyway, That's all Ireckon it was. In terms of voice
talent, Amy Pohla returns in thekey role of Joy and her adversary is

(27:33):
Maya Hawk as anxiety, and thenyou've got Kensington Talman cast as the thirteen
year old golf. I thought itwas a lot of fun. It was
wholesome and quite triumphant as a sequelfor Disney. What did you think of
Inside Out to PG rated ninety fourminutes. That's certainly very powerful and perhaps
an emotional most little punch body intoit there, And I like the fact

(27:57):
that they've actually moved on a littlebit from the originals. Now it's more
teenage emotions such as eggs and confusion, embarrassment and all that, and gives
a new different direction there and allowus for these new carriages you've broke in.
But the film is still full ofhow the mind works, with lots
of puns there. I mean,we've got this time stream of consciousness and

(28:19):
sarcasm, which I loved. You'vegot to see the film to get that
one. But yeah, the charactersare quite right and intuligent there. Of
course, Joy is the ficty onethere, trying to keep control of Joy's
emotions and not let it be overrunby anxiety and all that kind of thing,
which is more of equippling emotion there. The animation is suburb as Pixar

(28:41):
always do there, and it's gotsome nice and moral messages there and ulike
a lot of Pixar stuff every Nowit's a film aimed at kids, a
lot of the humor is still aimedat adults there who will enjoy it as
much as the kids. I think, do you think that? I mean
you enjoy the original? Did younot? Do you liked it? I'm

(29:03):
just wondering. Nine years have goneby, the kids that saw it then
have grown up. This has gota PG rating. Do you think this
will appeal? Like you could seethis without having seen the original? I
reckon you could without any problem atall. But on both the people are
going to go and see this withthose that saw the original? Or is
it going to be a new generationbecause I mean nine years half a generation.

(29:23):
Yeah, but well, a lotof bet were sorted for original guard
to seat now and there ah willbe chi so I'll probably appreciate how the
character of Riley as sayed, she'dgrown and developed, and Richard or not,
you remember how old she was inthe first one? Was it?
I thought it was only a coupleof years previous, but maybe Yeah,
she's just so so I know yousay down the film was what five years
ago? No? No, theother film was twenty fifteen. But I'm

(29:48):
wondering in terms of the characterization.I thought, if I'm not mistaken,
she was only a couple of yearsyounger. But maybe I don't know.
I haven't checked that out, SoI hope I'm not telling you, poor
pie. Maybe I'm now googling howold was the girl in Inside Out?
How old was the girl inside Out? For some reason, I seem to

(30:14):
think the year that age eleven iswhat stands out in my mind. You
probably don't remember, do you?There you go, yeah, I'm right,
based on if we believe that Google, she was an eleven year old
girl, right, so only onlyaffect twelve by the end of the film.
So this sort of really does carryon, and it carries on most

(30:37):
effectively from Inside Out. What elsewould you would you have to say about
the film? Great? Well,so I think I've said it all.
You've said it all. Well,okay, so if you've got to give
it a score out of ten insideOut two? Do you remember what you
gave the original or you don't remember? I gave the original an eight,
and so I'm giving this a sevenand a half. What about you six

(31:00):
and a half to seven? Ohokay, so okay, Well, look
at sequels don't always work, aswe know that, but for example,
we're seeing the spicable me for andthat's that's franchise carried on quite effectively.
It's I think it's the quirky natureof those characters. Though that's sort of

(31:22):
made there also been several million shortsto which keep the interest going. Yeah,
exactly. Look, it's fantastic whenyou go along and see effectively a
cartoon. I'm not trying to sortof make that a negative, but a
cartoon and you think, wow,this is this is really special. This
has got something in it for adultsas well as children. It's a family
type environment. That's certainly how Isee inside out to Greg, I,

(31:48):
did you ever see or read thebook The Woman in Black? No?
No, you know you know whatthe longest running stage show in the UK
is and in the world Left Mountstrabia, Yeah, which is continues et cetera,
et cetera, and just this iswithout a question, without notice.

(32:09):
So that's by far the longest runningstage show. Do you know what the
longest running musicals would be in theWest the Opera. Yeah, that's one
of them. So if I ifI google longest running stage shows in stage

(32:30):
shows in the UK, this isvery very good radio when I'm googling,
isn't it. This is called researchyou should do before. I did,
in fact do this beforehand, butI thought i'd do it. Let's it
sound more formatic? Yeah, okay, exactly, Okay, yeah, you
know, dramatic pauses and all thatsort of stuff. Anyway, there's two

(32:52):
musicals that are long running that havebeen going for ten thousand or more run
shows each. Lame Is is theone that stook I remember seeing when I
first saw that, I thought,my god, it's the best musical I've
ever seen. It still remains upthere, absolutely magnificent, and The Fantom
of the Opera being the other.So they're the two. So the Mouse
Traps number one, apparently leme missesnumber two, Fantom of the Opera number

(33:15):
three. Overall, if you're includingmusical theater in theater, but if you're
just doing straight theater, then TheWoman in Black is the second longest running.
In fact, it now finished inthe West End and I think it's
opened somewhere else in the UK.But it's no neatly Packet's fairy story.

(33:36):
I mean a lot of fairy storiesare dark anyway, aren't they. When
you think about long the original fairytiled were it, Yeah, I kin'd
have always It always amuses me thata lot of them were written by the
brothers Grim, not Grim spelt withone M, but two. But there's
something prosaic about that. Anyway.A Woman in Black is on at the
Aftername Theater. It's doing an Australiantour at the moment. There's got some

(33:58):
pretty well known names in it thatyou would probably have heard of, Greg
john Waters being one of them,and he was in an earlier production I
think, going back to two thousandand six in Australia in this But anyway,
having said that, Daniel McPherson isthe other one. So it's effectively
a two or three hander, andI'll explain that in a moment when I
say two or three hander. Butit's a rather dark tale of despair and

(34:20):
revenge. And it's kind of interestingbecause you've got the Woman in Black playing
and now at the ath and AmTheater, and of course you've got Sunset
Boulevard, which is at the PrincessTheater, and both of them are reasonably
well, very dark, you know, in terms of no nice, neat
happy endings and so forth. Ilike that. I like the Sunset Boulevard

(34:44):
show is going to close early becauseit's been getting bad reviews. But yeah,
well the issue with it, Ican't remember whether you're wrong when we're
talking about it Greek. That theproblem with it. As I see it.
It's a really good show. Ilike the darkness. I don't know
problem with that at all, buthaving Sarah Brightman's got a terrific voice,

(35:05):
but she's she plays it operatically,and I didn't want it operatically. I
wanted it to be played as musicaltheater, and I was difficult. She's
whilst she she pronounces words very verycarefully when she's speaking. When you're singing
in operatic tones, it's often difficultto discern what she's actually singing. And

(35:25):
I struggled with that because I andas I said, I'm not criticizing her
performance per se, but I'm wonderingwhy it was played operatically. I remember
seeing Deborah burn in it and thinking, wow, this was going back got
twenty eight years ago and thought itwas a terrific show. So yeah,

(35:45):
they've they've cut out performances and they'vebeen selling I don't know whether they would
have done this anyway, but they'vebeen selling tickets that are lower than face
value prices and encouraging people to comealong. I'm saddened by the fact that
it isn't doing well because I likethe fact that it's not a straightforward,
happy go lucky musical. Nevertheless,getting back to the Woman in Black talking

(36:07):
about despair and revenge, this concernsa man driven to tell his truth after
the death of an elderly reclusive widowcalled missus Alice Drablow Drablow and the person
who wants to unload is Arthur Kipps, and he's the character that John Waters
plays, and he is desperate tounburden himself, to free himself anyway.

(36:30):
He wants to tell his tail ofwoe, but he has no elocution skills,
so in a meta type association herehe engages an active meta being m
Eta engages an actor played by DanielMcPherson to help him to basically get the
best out of the words that hespenn. And it's had to be cut

(36:52):
back as well, because if youread every word, it would be a
five hour play. So anyway,this is only one hundred minutes including plus
an interval of twenty minutes. Soanyway, the actor is the one who
eventually plays the John Waters character ofArthur Kipps. So basically they turn the
tables. So if you're like,the actor plays a young Kipps and the

(37:14):
older kIPS in. John Waters fillsevery other character role in this piece,
and he also narrates the play.So the young kIPS is a lawyer.
He travels to a fictitious village onthe northeast coast of England known as christin
Gifford. It's not you know,it's as I say, made up.
It's sort of marsh country, andhe travels there to sort out Missus Drablow's

(37:37):
affairs. There are lots of privatepapers to go through and the task is
particularly onerous. But that's not thehalf of it. Greek and it's while
attending the funeral Missus Drablow's funeral thatthe young Kips' first eyes on first sets
eyes on a ghostly figure which we'llcall the woman in black. It's a

(38:00):
woman in black obviously dressed head todoe, so it's one that he'll continue
to encounter and it'll haunt him ashe travels to the now dead widow's home,
which is known as eel Marsh House. So assistance is in short supply,
even though Young kIPS could really dowith it, and it becomes quite

(38:21):
clear that locals don't want anything todo with il Marsh House. So while
carrying out his duty in isolation,he's got a fictitious He's got a dog
as a companion. And this isone of the beauties of this play.
You don't actually see the dog red, but all the overtures have made you
know, come here came he littledo no come here? All of this
done without seeing the dog. That'sthe only spoiler I'm going to put into

(38:43):
this, but it was really,really clever. So Young kIPS his rather
strange sounds and again he confronts thespirit the apparition. So it's left him
to try to figure out what's goingon and why the locals are so spooked,
and it's going to lead him touncover a shopping deal of death and
anguish that dates back nearly sixty years. So this has been adapted for the

(39:06):
stage by Stephen Mallatrade from a nineteeneighty three book by Susan Hill. Yeah,
do you like sort of ghost tales? Because I reckon you should read
it. If you do it,it's well worth reading. I look a
single word to sum up this ghoststory. It's atmospheric. So do you
like ghost stories? Greg or not? I beg you see horror stories?

(39:29):
Is yeah, I reckon you shouldKing stuff. Yeah, well, I
reckon you should read this one.Basically it's not Stephen King, but it's
Yeah. It's a very popular bookanyway. The acting, of course,
is of critical importance, as italways is, but there are a few
theatrical pieces I can think of wheresound and lighting would be more important,
and both have done really well.Shadows, of course, add to the

(39:52):
foreboding mood here, And in termsof sound, I'm not just talking about
the things that go bump in thenight. There are certainly those, but
also natural street noise and much more. And the blend works really well,
aided by rather austere but redlin stagingand props. And in terms of the
script, it's what i'd call aslow bourn, the build up, the

(40:15):
establishing just how mister keeps chilling.Taiale will be told that takes time.
There's sort of about ten or fifteenminutes of mucking around at the start,
where you know, again it's funny, but you sort of the piece really
ignites once we get to the paranormaland the scares. Well, you've got
sudden loud sound, you've got theappearance of the apparition, you've got screams,
you've got squeals, and yeah,it's done well, it's done very

(40:37):
well. It really comes into itsown in act too, as the narrative
is developed and the true horror inthe storytelling is revealed. The two stars
of the piece, John Waters andDaniel Wick, firston, they're really strong.
They milk the material for all it'sworth, not missing a beat,
and it's really quite amusing to watchJohn Waters imagine they'd be I can't remember

(40:57):
what was the film where where thefilm is distinguished. In this case,
the theatrical performance is distinguished by anactor playing bad acting, you know what
I'm saying, where he's actually Inthis case, John Water's character as the
elderly Arthur Kibbs struggles to sort ofbasically deliver any of his lines with any

(41:20):
umph, right, no, getup and go. It's really and he
did this and he did that.It sounds sounds really wouldn't What do you
remember off the top of the moviewhere I just I'm just trying to think
of where was it Meryl Streep?I just can't remember the name of the
film where she plays a bad actoror whatever. Bad singer, bad singer,

(41:42):
that's one, yeah, bad singer. Okay, do you recall a
movie? I can't remember anyway,tree banger name, but look I'm talking
about this. But yeah, Soit was really funny to watch it.
And then you contrast that with afine job he does inhabiting several characters as
the product unfolds, and McPherson isthe enthusiast, the driving force here,

(42:05):
quickly gets stuck into his role,lets it run. So the haunting nature
of the woman in Black is apparentthroughout. Gives it bite, there's no
question about that. And it's onat the athname. You've got a little
bit of time to see it.Sixth of July. It finishes, and
it's doing a tour. It's alreadybeen in a couple of cities. It's
sort of been in Brisbane and it'sbeen into Woomba, been in Adelaide and

(42:27):
Perth, so more than a coupleand it then moves through Canberra, Woolengong
and Newcastle before finishing at the TheaterRoyal in Sydney, starting at the end
of July and moving through to August. But we can see it right the
Aname Theater. That's some of yourtheory of Florence Foster Jenkins. Very good,
Thank you, Greg. That's terrific. No, it's good to know.

(42:49):
So, yeah, the Woman inBlack is well worth catching if you
are either things that go bump inthe night. Look, there are some
jump out of your seat moments,but not many. They're more it's fascinating
staging. And yeah, there aresome people that my wife was sitting with
her hands over her ears waiting,you know, were you're waiting in a
movie or a horror film or whateverfor something to happen. I mean that

(43:15):
One of the scariest things that I'veever done is there was a I can't
remember what the name of it wasnow either, but there were four shipping
containers in Chinatown in Melbourne and youcould get into these shipping containers where it
was it was all about sound andlight and so forth. But it was

(43:36):
pitch It was absolutely pitch black.And what is it? Why do you
think, and you're somebody who readsa lot of horror and watches a lot
of horror movies, what is itthat? Why do people get excited about
being scared? What is it?What's the Why are we humans built this
way? I don't know whether you'vegot an answer, but what's your theory?

(43:58):
Maybe yes, it's occasionally it's ajob out of a normal routurnal life.
And becose it's under stage, you'reon the screen. Is not real
seasons, it's not to experience it. Well, I suppose it's the thrill
like you've also got the thrill seekers. Some people are the thrill seekers and
others that you like to be scaredout of their wits. It's it's interesting.

(44:22):
I mean, night terrors and nightmaresare very real for people, and
you know you wake up from oneof those and you're really at times.
I'm sure it's happened to all ofus. I wonder. I don't know
the physiology of it, but howhow does the human mind work? Is
it a processing mechanism? It's quitefascinating to sort of think about this with

(44:44):
a little bit more depth. Havingsaid all of that, yeah, if
you're into that sort of genre,why not why not attend? I also
wanted to. I've seen some amazingthings, and you know, unfortunately it's
now over, but the Rising Festival, which has been on from the first
until the sixteenth of this month,that's always on in June. She there's

(45:07):
been some good stuff. Greg.I don't think you've partaken in any of
it, but it's always difficult toknow what to attend. And now I
want to talk to you about thisbecause there are a couple of really interesting
things and you maybe want to beThis goes on for a little bit longer.
This goes on to the twenty thirdbut was part of Rising. Daniel
Kitson collaborator. Okay, so nowI suppose if you ever wanted to be

(45:32):
you're an English teacher, but ifyou ever wanted to be a voiceover talent
or an actor, that ever crossedyour mind. Yeah, well, look
a lot of people, you know, you look at the money that can
be made, and people say,yeah, it'd be really good. Well
here's your chance. Although the personinvolved, Daniel Kitson had hate me for
saying so, because he makes hisview of actors clear in this show,

(45:55):
or I suppose you must. Youcan even question whether that really is his
view or viewer that he puts outthere. But anyway, he's a British
Comedian's written a really off the wallsgrip greg in which he argues with and
provokes the audience, all of whomplay a part in the Shenanigans and there's
a lot of laughter. So anyway, you know the South Bank Theater right

(46:16):
alongside the Art Center. Okay,so you go in there. It's the
smaller theater of the Lauler and thereit's quite an interesting thing because it's theater
in the round. It's actually inthe square, but there's if you're like
bleacher seating, it's not very deep, but you know, four or five
deep in each four in four areasright to make up the square. And

(46:38):
when you get in there and yousit down in the middle of the room,
there's a sort of like the stagearea, which is just the floor.
There are hundreds and hundreds of piecesof paper lined up on four sides
and you're thinking, what the heck'sgoing on here? Well, basically they
are scripts greg all right, SoDaniel Kitson basically prepared one hundred and sixty

(47:01):
nine speaking parts in forty six pagesof text. Now, as a patron,
you either can choose a speaking roleor a non speaking role. And
the night we attended there were furelythe smaller theater, there were one hundred
and eighty one people there. Somost people take speaking parts, and every

(47:22):
and he hands out copies of thescript which you lead behind as you exit,
and basically you might it's quite random, so they're numbers of one to
one hundred and sixty nine and youjust pass them along the aisle and you
might get a single word, youmight get a sentence, you might get

(47:42):
series of sentences or proclamations or exclamations, or you could choose it on speaking
part. And even if you choosean no speaking part, you're still invited
to engage in about or two ofbooing at various junctures. So the script's
sort of a four size and you'vegot a tab which indicates the start of
the role that you're asked to play, and then what you're asked to say

(48:07):
is highlighted in yellow, and thenyou've got a red dot that marks the
end of your part. So it'squite easy. It's quite straightforward. Now,
the beauty of the writing is thatit speaks to the lead up to
well, who knows what, Wenever actually get there, agreed, because
basically it sets out the rules ofengagement and invites the people the challenges.

(48:28):
It invites people to challenge what's beensaid, and they're plenty of challenges.
So whatever the show proper could havebeen remains a bit of a mystery,
a lot of a mystery, andof course that's the whole point. The
interjections, the retorts are the show, and you're interacting with Daniel Kitson throughout
the entirety of the extended reading,and naturally his lines are the most pointed

(48:50):
and the largest so and I've gotto say one lucky audience member known as
Keith also has a large part toplay and verbally joust with Daniel right throughout
this performance. So Daniel is foreverdefending his territory, sometimes quite forcefully and
always being very physically expressive. Soit's a very funny and extremely clever script.

(49:15):
And it was written at Daniel Gidsoncollaborator to be performed in the round
as it is, and it's tweakedfrom one venue to another because obviously if
he's playing in England, there'll besome different references to what there may be
here in Australia. And it alsocontains directions for us the great unwash the
participants, so you might get asquare bracket saying sarcastic, so right,

(49:39):
you're delivering it in a particular styleor raises hand, so everything's laid out
on a platter. But then there'ssome ad libbing as well, which generates
even more amusement. And part ofthe joy is in the contrarian position that
Daniel's built into the pros, whichmakes it clear, now get this not

(50:00):
a fan of audience participation. Thisis all about audience participation. He's not
a fan of plays, well thisis a play, and he's not a
fan of stand up comedy. Wellthis is stand up comedy. So that's
the whole point. Obviously he istaking the P one double s out of
things. A great deal of funto be had over an hour and ten
minutes. He's effectively using us DanielKitson to have an argument with himself.

(50:21):
So the audience quickly get into therhythm of the work. There's lots of
smiles on faces throughout that speaks volumesand kits and himself, well, he's
quite the thespian. He's an agitatoras well, and don't we just love
him for it. It's quite anI've never seen anything like it. But
you basically pay it. I thinkit's twenty five bucks greet so it's not
too not too expensive plus five ninetybooking fee. It's it's you imagine going

(50:45):
into a play that you're paying tobe part of. That's what you do
at Daniel Kitson Collaborator, even thoughhe doesn't want to call it a play.
Does that Does that sound exciting?I reckon, it was very exciting.
Iss you own? Oh great greeOh don't be a stick in them,
my friend? Yeah, So thatwas that was really special. I

(51:06):
thought, wow, that's really abit different and you know, nothing,
nothing wrong with that, right,So that was that one. Now we
don't have time. Maybe next weekwe can go to a few of the
other movies that open this week,and I think that'll also give you an
opportunity to to see them as well. Greek so amongst those that that I

(51:30):
wouldn't mind talking about is the newRussell Crowe movie, The Exorcism. Well,
was it last year that Russell Croweplayed a priest in a movie that's
just the Pope? That's right,So he's done too Exorcism. I'm not
sure whether he did them back toback or whether they're released in quick succession,
so I don't know why, butyou know, these are the scripts

(51:53):
that he's offered. And the otherone that the other thing that I should
mention is the Spanish Film Festival isnow on and that is well worth catching
up with. I caught up witha centerpiece to that which is really worth
worth sort of seeing the Teacher whoPromised the Sea, and it basically turns

(52:15):
back the clock to the horrors ofthe murderous Franco regime with a highly personal
search back in twenty ten, andit's based on fact. Now it's quite
it's a very interesting, quite adisturbing story, but one that I would
encourage people to go along the seat. That's the teacher who Promised the Sea.

(52:36):
Now, the other thing I wantedto mention that one of our colleagues,
Peter, who is regularly Peter Krause'sregularly on this show is sort of
going through a little bit, andwe hope to have him back very very
soon. And we're just sending outour best wishes to Peter and yeah,
let's hope that all all will berighted in very short and we know how

(53:00):
much he loves films and how muchhe contributes to this program. So I
just wanted to say that, Greg, I wish you a very good week.
I hope that the kids don't giveyou too much grief. When's the
next school holidays? That's my questionto you two weeks away. Are you
counting down the days? Yep?Okay, well, listen, you enjoy

(53:22):
the week, be kind to oneanother. Hopefully the kids don't give you,
as I say, too much grief, and we'll catch you next week
on First On Film and Entertainment.