S03E21: Ghost Light: A Family's Tragic Tale and The Healing Power of Theatre

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
First on film and entertainment.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Boy, oh boy. In terms of weather, finally it's arrived.
I mean, I understand we're not talking about forty degrees.
I don't want forty degrees. The idea of beautiful sunny
skies and seeing blue above and green below. That's enough
for me. My name's Alex first. I hope it's enough

(00:22):
for you too, Greg King? Do you like sunny days?
Do you like gay for walks?

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (00:26):
What Donny Day?

Speaker 1 (00:27):
And Warrewoll?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Are you exactly now, Peter Krause, you get sunny days
for the time because your walls are so thin, the
sun penetrates through anything. The rest of us have brick walls,
but you don't.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Do you.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
Yeah, I do have brett walls. But I am looking
out at the sunshine at the moment, and it looks
really nice, very nicely.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Now you speak, Most people put toenails. You use the
toenail clippers to cut grass, don't you.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Oh look, I tell you what. I've to mow my
lawns twice a week in the past couple of weeks.
There you get the rain, you get the sun. You
get the rain, you get the sun, and just all explodes.
It's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
It is beautiful, isn't it? And sorry, do you find
this cathartic mowing the lawn or do you not.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Therapeutic? Yes, it is. It is deeply connection with the
soil of the earth is very therapeutic.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yes, there was a serge.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
I've got my veggie patch going, which is great. I've
got the bradishes are all out that, I've got my lettuces,
I've got my cucumbers going. I'm going to put my
tomatoes into day.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, now that you're talking about patches, if you can
do all those veggie patches, what do you do for
bald patches? Can you can you solve my bald patch issue?

Speaker 1 (01:48):
You just just sow some seed in there, Alex, you know,
maybe carrots exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
That anybody who can really genuinely not these sort of
hair salons and whatever the promise the yours.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
If anybody can effectively go over here on a bald.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Head, they're going to make a lot of money and
they deserve to, as long as it can be done
in a way that's healthy.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
And don't you can make a lot of money just
saying they can do it, we don't have to like it.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Okay, So it's kind of like the American election campaign
where you lie through your back teeth and people still vote.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, well, we know, we don't the scams we know.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, we do know, all right, So there's quite a
bit that we'll try and get through today. One a
film that I wanted to start with is one that,
in fact, I think you implored me to see it, Jackie,
so you to your credit, ghost Light. I sort of
missed the media screening of it, and I know it's
been out for a couple of weeks, but I wanted
to start there because it's a really deeply affecting story

(02:52):
about love and loss, and it's harrowing, it's sensitive, and
it's also comedic. It's nearly two hours, one hundred and
sixteen minutes righted m concerning the trials and tribulations of
a family in small town America, and we come to
learn that this family lost their son slash brother, in
tragic circumstances in the past year, and the father, whose

(03:16):
name is Dan Mueller played by Keith Kupp for her,
the mother Sharon Tara Mallin, and the daughter Daisy Catherine
Malan Coop for her are struggling. Now, if you think
there's a connection. That absolutely is. Now, I can't think
of a film where you've got three of the four
stars being the real life father, mother and daughter playing father,

(03:41):
mother and daughter. I'll stop at this point. And Peter
and Greg, you're particularly knowledgeable about these sorts of things
from a trivial pursuit point of view, Greg, can you
name me any other family?

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Not one?

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Oh, I'm sorry. I dismissed you straight off, and I
should have done. So, okay, go on, No you did.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
What about Rodriguez? What's his name? Robert rod us mate,
Robert Rodriguez used to do all the family stuff, his
whole family.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
It was in there.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, but sorry, I'm talking about starring role three stars.
Oh okay, all right, I give up. I don't I
can't think of any other instance anybody. No, No, I
think it's a brilliant tactical move if it works, because
it could backfire really badly. But it doesn't. Hear, And

(04:34):
you've got Daisy, the daughter, who is now sixteen. She's
lashing out at school. She's on the point of being
expelled from school. Actually she's loud, she's vulgar. The father,
Danny's a construction worker, he's internalizing everything. Bear in mind
that you know, he's the one who lost the son. Obviously,

(04:55):
Daisy lost the brother. The father doesn't want to talk
about his feelings, is not into that, but he's a
powder click, pretty blow. And the mother, Sharon, is just
trying to hold it all together so the family can somehow,
the remaining family can somehow get through. But everything appears
to be coming a part at the seams. And Daisy, well,

(05:16):
she's in therapy, she's perpetually angry. And then there's an
ugly incident with a motorist that the father, Dan has
that he totally loses it. So pressure is continuing to
build ahead of legal action that family has initiated, and
surprisingly father that with a blobster by keep going on anyway.

(05:41):
Surprisingly Dan joins a local community theater group, and that's
made up a bunch of low red amateurs. Say, for one,
well tell it as she sees it. Former professional actor
whose name's Rita, played by Dolly de Leon. You might
remember her from a Triangle of Sadness and Rita spent
sixteen years in New York and moved presumably back home

(06:06):
to small town America. But let's put it this way,
the rest of the troops acting skills, apart from Bretas,
are left wanting nevertheless that they're working on Shakespeare's Romeo
and Juliet, And with Reata's encouragement, Dan slowly starts opening
up right, opening up at least a level of his

(06:26):
feelings and the parallel between what happened to the star
Cross lovers in the play and the mural lils is.

Speaker 5 (06:36):
There's tidy as you know, keep the name it bears, okay,
an if they know what they do.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
There's screams, there's I think people are being can the
rest of you here is s Peter and you what, Peter,
there's something wrong with where you are because we can
hardly hear any anything other than trucks driving through.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
No, no, I'm I'm hear and there's no other noise
that I'm aware of.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Oh my golly, Greg, have you got mac Truck's work?

Speaker 3 (07:21):
No, you won't hear any from white Place.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
And and there's no traffic for me. I'm in a
sort of a double brick downstairs room. What about you, Jackie,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
I can see it's actually coming from Peter's side.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
So, Peter, there's some this is the worst I've ever
known it to be. I don't know what what to
say here. I don't know how you can't hear that.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
No, it's in the background.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
It's it's not disturbing me at all.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
Now they're coming across, very strongly across. We're now I
just talk you.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, it's it's an It stopped now, so we'll keep
on going. But okay, yeah, it's not very good on
live radio, is it. Anyway? We're talking about the parallel
of Romeo and Juliet to what's happened to the Mueller family,
and naturally that presents challenges. As a matter of fact,
the whole work, which is written by Kerry O'Sullivan and

(08:21):
directed by Bura and Alex Thompson, and they're a couple,
I believe in real life, is challenging. And the two
of them work together on a twenty nineteen film called
Saint Francis. I don't know whether any of you saw that.
I think I did, But Ghost Slide is this slice
of life pas and I thought the writing the execution

(08:42):
were sublime. It's really perceptive, it's grounded, it's completed without pretense,
and it's done so in everyday settings, and the authenticity
that Keith Kufner brings to the lead role quite astounding.
He transforms into his character which is both and tender
and neither Dan, nor Sharon nor Daisy. You've had a

(09:04):
chance to grieve properly, and that's the whole point of
this story. And then you've got Catherine Malan Kafner portraying Daisy,
the sixteen year old and she was fifteen when she
did the movie as an intuitive bundle of pined up energy.
And the mother played by Tara Mallan is credible, willing

(09:25):
to sort of lay it all on the line right
and navigate a path through what is a living nightmare.
And I really enjoyed Dolly de Leon as well. She's
sort of she's this no nonsense pragmatist with her caring side.
So it's a really special film, ghost Like, it's heartfelt,
it's profound, it's one to be savored and celebrated. And
I reckon a tissue or two wouldn't go astray either,

(09:46):
would it. Jackie.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Oh. I just think it's a beautiful film about really
deep emotions and do you can't deal with it when
you don't know how to deal with this sadness and
tragedy and everything just becomes repressed into anger, and you

(10:10):
know they they're angry with each other, they're angry with
the world, they're angry with whatever's around them, and you know,
your heart just breaks for them. You can understand where
they're at and how they got there. I just think
it's beautifully put together, and with the concurrent story of
the Romeo and Juliet play, the amateur play that he's

(10:32):
in not even knowing that it's actually helping him, and
how he then also helps others. It's just kind of
a self help group of a therapy group, but they're
all helping each other, and how you know, this disparate
group becomes so necd and important to each other, and

(10:55):
that's about connecting with other people. It's all heart. This
film goes like that's all hard. I expected nothing when
I first started certing it, and I just I just
felt so deeply about this that I saw in a
second time and blocked it just as much.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
I mean, I think it's interesting as we grow more mature,
shall we say that? I know amongst my friendship groups,
there's there's a lot more value put on well we
really value your friendship Dahdi dahdi da. Those sorts of
acclamations are at points as the years have gone on.

(11:34):
You have you noticed that as well, Jackie, in terms
of because you've got lots of lots of friends in
different sort of areas and especially through the exercise that
you do, and the value of friendship and how you know,
loneliness is an incredibly debilitating condition and you can feel
lonely in the presence of others as well, can't you.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Oh well, yes, absolutely, Alaman. I don't think this film
it's going to fix any one some issues with friendships
or lack of However, I think outstanding thing about Ghost
Life is that it is. It feels, it feels and
looks like a small film on a fairly small budget.

(12:18):
It's not. It's not a big, multiplex entertaining kind of film.
It's got a quietness about it and it's an undercurrent.
It goes under the radar there, and I think that
that makes it even more a precious film.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a surprising delight. I mean,
it's one of the one of my favorite films of
this year without any question, even though it deals with
such horrible material. So Greg did you did you appreciate it?

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (12:49):
I dude a guilders and big serious themes. You're like family,
dysfunctional family relationships, suicide, grief, grief, loss, community, broken dreams.
But it also demonstrates how Art and that and did
if he become a healing force. And I like the
way that the parallel between the play it he takes

(13:10):
part in game, takes part in Romeo and Juliet even
though he's really old. They up Romeo and Juliet here.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
How that allows.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Him to work to have his own emotions, his you
owned berief and begin that casasus that maybe his stars
a healing process for the family. And I like the
fact that the Ner family itself is played by a
real life family. I thought it added authenticity and verasity
to their dynamic and interactions. And I thought that lead

(13:38):
lend itself to the emotional hess to the film as well.
I thought for a good job there, adding waited his
performance through his tense silences. He spoke so much with
his silences, his looks as the expression bear. And I
thought the daughter was strong in a very emotionally demanding
role as a rebellious days actually gives an jastic job there,

(14:01):
and I did like college the Leon Otherwi. She was
as great as reader, as strong willed but simpathetic person there,
and we sulso I managed to capture that frustration. I'm
a serious actor who never really managed to make the
breakthrough that to start them there. And it's free of
humors throughout as well, some low key moments of humor,

(14:22):
especially as they explore the querity, idiots and bredit nature
of the rest of the scuy group there and their
highly strung personalities, which I thought were brought to life
by a great ensemble class as well. And I like
the cineatography of Luke dirog I thought that was great
as well, and the reduction design brought the settings and
acts of life as well. As Jackie said, this is

(14:43):
a small and low key film, but it's also emotionally
honest and it has a powerful effect on the audience.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Well, I mean the relationship in terms of plays theater
and bringing you know what that can do. I've been
I've been banging on Peter Krause for you to do
to incorporate more in your life than sitting in dark
rooms and very loud rooms like you are at present
and to see more theater because it pushes the horizon

(15:11):
beyond what you know it to be. And you keep resisting,
you know, and you also resist my overtures to take
you to a football game. Stop resisting.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
Well, I'm part of the resistance movement, so I won't
succumb to your entreaties.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Perhaps it's so gentle.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Line treaties, but price they go along. But mate, I
shouldn't use that language. Go on, okay, talk to me
about Ghostly.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
All right, wonderful film. I spoke to the filmmakers who
spent a few years writing this low key film, which
is basically about theater as therapy, and Dottie de Leon's
character is about acting as a therapist for the father
who comes along to be part of this amateur theater

(16:01):
production of Romeo and Juliet. It demonstrates how important writing
is in any film, and this film is so strong
because it is so well written. Doesn't need a huge script.
It just needs a good story and screenplay, and this
one certainly has. It's interesting when you look at the

(16:23):
title ghost Light, the impression is that it's a horror
film before you watch it, that it's going to be
some sort of nasty sort of drama. And they explained
to me that ghost light is the single light that
is kept on in a theater.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yes, it is when it's empty, and both a practical
and spiritual meaning. Correct, So I mean it's a safety
device so that people entering the stage are in danger.
But some believe that theaters are haunted by spirits and
that the ghost light keeps them happy awards them away.

(17:02):
Is that what you were told?

Speaker 4 (17:04):
Yes, yes, exactly, that it has that second meaning, Peter, Yeah, Peter, I'm.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Wondering why why that explanation isn't included in the film, Insie.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
Well, yeah, John, Yeah, it's a good question. I asked
them that, and they said they wanted to keep it
low key because they wanted to communicate the value of
amateur or community theater and that that was a large audience.
They were pitching the film too, and so they thought
that everyone who saw that who was part of a

(17:41):
theater would understand the meaning of ghost lives and they
didn't think it was important to say more about that,
But it's just important.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's interesting because the ghost lighte symbolizes that theater people
care for their theater, even when there isn't a show
and it goes back centuries because I mean, this is
quite a tradition, and during the pandemic, many theaters kept
their ghost slides on as a symbol of hope that
live performances would return. So yeah, I mean, I like,

(18:14):
I agree Jackie that it's I dare say a lot
of people wouldn't have been familiar with that, and you know,
so it makes it a very clever title. Actually, yes, yeah, look.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
It's a beautifully told story, very well acted, and I
must say it was great to see Dolly de Leon
as the theater director of slash Therapist helping and helping along.
It's it's just a really wonderful little film.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah. So I think we're all going to be rating
this extremely highly, as we should. So let's start off
with you, Jackie. Out of ten. Ghost Slide rated M
one hundred and sixteen minutes.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Eight point five eight and a half from me out
of ten.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Right, for some reason, you cut out again for a moment,
but you're back to okay, Greek King.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Seven to seven and a half.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yep, okay, not as not as enthusiastic, Peter, I give
it eight out of ten and I give it eight
and a half. Jackie, we agree this is this is
really not what I want to hear, but we do.
I mean, we're in fierce accord. Is that what we
should be saying? Something else? Good?

Speaker 1 (19:29):
On?

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Do that? That's nice? I like it. You are and
Joy eighty eight point eighty eight FM. I'm trying to
say the right thing, but I'm getting it wrong. And
you can contribute to the station by paying for it.
You can give a fifty four buck donation that gets
you membership and it means that we can keep on

(19:50):
going on air. We rely upon members to keep the
station ticking along twenty four hours a day. So go
to jdash air dot com dot au and if you want,
you can contry scintillating programming much better than ours throughout
the day. No, here we go. Let's talk about a
movie about an actor I have the highest regard for,

(20:12):
namely Kate Winslet. And it's called Lee and it also
runs for just under two hours, one hundred and seventeen
minutes and is also rated M And I got to
say I had not heard of the star of the
show here or the person who's represented somebody called Lee Miller.

(20:32):
Knew nothing about her. I'm wondering, prior to seeing this
movie and prior to hearing that it is about Lee Miller,
any of you three had heard of Lee Miller? Peter No, Greg, Hello,
there's a delay. What's going on? No? I heard? And Jackie.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yes, there was an exhibition of her photographs at Heidi
last year.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
I think it was last year.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Did you go along? And did you know who Leemela
was when you went along?

Speaker 1 (21:11):
I didn't go to Nixon, but a neighbor of mine
who goes to Heidi regularly, had spoken to me about it,
so I knew.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
But your introduction to Lee Milla, that's did you know
who she was before?

Speaker 1 (21:24):
That? Not?

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Right? So, and that's to me the beaten nub of this.
Why this is such an extraordinary story. You've got a
taciturn American who was born in nineteen oh seven and
passed away seventy years later. She's about to be interviewed
in her London home, and she questions why she should
allow the interview to take place, and then agrees on

(21:49):
condition that she can ask the interviewer some hard questions
of her own. And I'm going to be very careful
here I'm not going to sort of say anything more
about the interview were and obviously I've talked to you
about the interviewee, so please, when you're talking about this,
just don't give away the spoiler. But this is Lee
Miller to a t with the interbuler. She's unapologetic, she's surly,

(22:12):
she's determined, she's a driven individual and doesn't suffer fools gladly,
and hence begins a deep dive into the world of
one of the most famous war photographers of all time.
Mind you, her real story didn't come to light until
her son unearthed the evidence. In her younger years, she

(22:35):
was a model. She was a muse who liked to drink,
she liked to have sex, and she liked to take photographs.
So she was this free spirit who enjoyed the company
of like minded friends in the south of France who
wouldn't And that's where she met and fell for a
British art dealer and an artist for the whole by

(22:56):
Alexander Scarsguard, who was immediately besotted by her, and she
went on to live with Penrose in London. She sought
and eventually got a job as a photographer, later a
photo journalist for British Vogue magazine, so incredibly prestigious, and
that's how she came to forge your friendship with British
Fogue's editor Audrey Withers, played by Andrea Risebrough. So we're

(23:20):
talking about a time frame where World War iiO is
beckoning and Miller became Vogue's war correspondent. She was a feminist,
She broke down barriers. She covered events like the London Blitz,
deliberation of Paris, and concentration camps at Bookenworld and Dakka.
So Linning's her Whatson, all tale, grit and endurance, including

(23:45):
an experience with Hitler. Again, I'm just going to leave
it at that. She's hated as a ball breaker, a drink,
a heavy smoke who barges her way through life. The
screenplays by Liz Hannah Marrying Hume and John Colly, based
on Lee's son, whose name is Anthony Penrose's book The

(24:06):
Lives of Lee Miller and Kate Winslet also serves as
one of the film's producers. She does a really fine
job getting inside Lee's skin. She plays her as this
uncompromising force of nature who simply will not be tamed.
And Josh O'Connor is cast as the patient interviewer, someone
intent on getting to the nub of the truth. Andrew

(24:28):
Risebrough is stoic and respectful as the British fou editor,
and as Roland Alexander Scarsguard indulges Lee's brusque nature and
simply runs with it. Another key figure in her life
Lee's life was the Life magazine photographer Davey Sherman, to

(24:48):
whom and Andy Sandberg gives voice. Now, okay, he's noted
as a comic actor, but I mean you think about
Tom Anks. Brady was noted as a comic actor, and
then he made two movies, one to Oscars the serious roles.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
So it's not Robert Williams also, who did a lot
of colin things, but also very capable of serious dramatic
roles and dramatic role it also bought a bit of
a creepy side.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
This persona totally agree Yeah, good, good, good choice of name.
So on the battlefield you've got the two photographers forming
this impenetrable partnership, and as the film shows it, you've
got David Sherman admiring Lee Miller's tenacity and plat and
the atrocities that the pair witness are quite overwhelming. You've

(25:34):
also got some rather fine actors playing smaller roles, marrying
Cotti Cotta Lard and Naomi Merland, and they play two
of Deer's Lee's dear friends. The cinematographer, I mean, this
is really important. The cinematographer now turned director who actually
makes her narrative feature to Boo with Lee is Ellen Curis,

(25:55):
and I reckon there's a real keen eye for detail
in What Is It production. The focus is rightly on
Kate Winslet. I mean's her movie. She delivers this powerful
portrait of a woman of substance. I thought it was
an extraordinarily strong role by her, and it was a
been a passion project for Winslet, and good honor for
sticking with it, because sometimes you know, passion projects like

(26:20):
we talked about one recently set in in New Rome,
which was old Rome, and that didn't work for me,
But this one does. Lee is a good wrong movie,
do you not think so.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
Greg, Yes, it's quite a good film. I thought that
framing device of the person interviewing the elder Lee Lee
Miller was a little bit of clunky and interrupted the
narrative flow from me, I thought, But I thought, I
thought Kate Winslet did a good job there. She inhabited
the character.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Sorry, sorry, let me interrupted you Greek. So when you
say that was a bit clunky, how would you liked
to have seen the film done without that? Just a
set of yes, story.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
Without that, And Jess gives the background that her photographs
words found untilast she died uncovered by her son. Yeah,
you didn't need that, I thought that, and interrupted the
narrative flow the way it went Backpriingdon forwards a little
bit between those two there. So for me, that device
didn't quite work as much.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Although it's quite a bill of device.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
I've got to say, Yeah, I know a wind has
done well. It can work strong. But I thought Pat
Whissler inhabited the character here, showed the strength, a sense
of determination, even though prickly personality. She didn't suffer fools playedly.
She didn't tolerate the misogyny at the time, especially when
military commanders told her that they didn't want women at

(27:42):
the front there, but she but she also wore emotions there,
a sense of outrage and what her feelies discussed at
what she found in the concentration camps there as well
as a showy performance, I thought, and I will probably
see her in contention for us some sort of recognition
come in the next awards season. There, I agree. Andy

(28:04):
Saandberg been known for his comic roles. Here, I thought
he did a pretty good job here, playing it straight.
There and You arrived for I thought, or was it
also good Alexander Scar's Gone marrying Kotlard I thought were
a little bit waste and not given as much to
do There. I thought the production values were quite good.
How it moved from that sort of happiness heading this
attitude of the early thirties through to the blitz of

(28:27):
London with destruction misery of that, and then the ruin
of Europe There and I thought the cinematographer Howell Edelman
gave the film a gritty surface here, the sort of
darker times, bleak color added to the turn of the film.
So yeah, I didn't know much about her, still don't
know a lot more about it after the film, but
it certainly captures a testament to the horrors of the war.

(28:51):
She caught that there as well, So yeah, so in
the film. But I thought the director was pretty straightforward,
nothing flashy about it.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, but when you say you still don't know a
lot more about it, I'm surprised you say that. Why
would you not say that that you know you've learned
a lot a lot about it because you didn't know
it beforehand. Be surprised or confused by that.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
No, you can get a lot about her early, early,
earlier life. There you've got basically from the thirties old
which when she became a phizographer. You just didn't get
enough that sensor beforehand.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Oh okay, yeah, I actually all.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
This strong femininity came from you didn't get enough of that, Peter,
what about you?

Speaker 4 (29:34):
I was very impressed by this film, I must say,
and I liked the framing device of the interview with
because it gave also a very strong resolution, which of
course I won't spoil. I think Kate Winsley has done
a great job in pushing and producing this film because

(29:56):
it is a story of an underrecognized and well regarded
war correspondent and photographer, especially during World War Two. Very
important story, and it is beautifully shot, and Winsford really
put her heart and soul into it, which I was

(30:16):
very impressed. By. I was also impressed by the locations
that they use. Apart from the UK, they also shot
in Croatia and Hungary, and that gave it an extra
sense of authenticity to the film, which did have some
budgetary problems. I mean, Kate Winsford herself had to contribute

(30:39):
some money to the production of the film because they
had run out and they had to find other producers
and other money sources. No, this is a story that's
really well told, and her photographs Themiller's photographs that are
just superb and deserve the recognition that this film gives them,

(31:03):
and her life which was largely will recorded.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
So I was very impressed.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
I recreated some of those pointed photographs.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think they did a pretty good job. Jackie,
did you appreciate the strong feminist sort of that the
the the issue of a brilliant photographer who transitioned her
life from if you like, frippery of some description to
something of great substance, but didn't want to didn't sort

(31:34):
of get the recognition that she deserved during her lifetime.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
Potentially, I don't think she like like can you hear me?

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yep, and that can but there's it's almost like I'm
talking to you overseas and there's a gap.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Oh well, it's lovely here in the south of France
at the moment.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
I'm very good. Okay, yes, you're not in you're not depression.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
That Lee didn't really like the frippery of that life
lasing around pre war, well at least pre her involvement
in the war years. She was a bit restless for
more and that was in her nature of being quite
feisty and determined, and she had strong women all around her.

(32:23):
So if there was feminism in this film, it was
also in her friendships and her supporters and you know,
her employer and that as well. I'm going to make
this a draw of two two between the four of
us on Greek side. I didn't particularly like that device
of the way that the film was presented and written.

(32:48):
For me, it wasn't even only the interruption. It was
as we all are just swimming around, not spoiling it.
If I were to say the spoiler was, it would
completely ruin it, and I didn't like the way that
that was done. My favorite part of the film Lee

(33:11):
was during the credits, when we saw the actual images
that she had shot and we had seen how she
came upon those circumstances and how she dealt with it,
and her professionalism in taking those photos, and Davy's support
as it came through. But we had to wait all

(33:32):
the way to the credits until we saw that. I
would have liked that to have been fed into the film.
And I think, if it's going to be a dramatization
of one person's career and life, or at least, you know,
just a segment of it, and I agree with Greg again,
it was only a segment. We didn't really get the
background to how she became this woman, and I would

(33:53):
have liked that. I think for the dramatization of her life,
I would have liked a bit more actual information on
where she was. And I know there were some dates
and years and that, but I wanted more of that information.
Otherwise it all just became a bit of a blur
as it progressed.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Wow. Okay, so I mean I think I'll probably be
a higher score than many of you on this one.
Let's start with you. Greg sits down a ten. Okay,
So that's a that's a pretty average or just above
average type of.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
Well, you know, pretty average, I thought. I agree with
some of the He's deftly said that there's someone the
things that bothered me about this a little bit there,
and I'm afraid, no, it didn't well you should say
what she should be said about it only go about
two and a half, I think.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
But Jim, yeah, Jim came out of this sort of
saying it was a boring fit. I mean, you know,
I'm sorry I shouldn't sort of put words in his mouth,
but he didn't find it particularly stimulating. But I got
to say that there there's lots of arguments the other way.
So anyway, okay, so Jackie, yes.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
I'd go there was a little bit of tedium in
it for a two. But say, I'm blaming that on
not having a perfect sense since it was a true
story based on a true story, having a perfect sense
of time and place.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
All the time.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
I wanted it a lot more factual. I gave it
six and a half.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Okay, Okay, Peter.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
I found this a very compelling biopic which dealt with
a particular aspect of her life. It's not a documentary.
So I'm a little surprised at some of the reactions.
And we've seen so many of these biopics where the
real person is then highlighted at the end of a film.
So I'm not quite sure where the criticism rearis, but anyway,

(35:50):
that's fine. I gave the film eight out of ten.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
And I gave it an eight out of ten as well,
So yeah, okay, I would highly commend it, and it's yeah,
I mean, I found it very, very compelling, and I
wish i'd I wish I'd known even more about her
to this point of time. Let's move on to Memoir
of a Snail. Now, I'm in awe of what Academy

(36:16):
would win well he wanted for the short Harvey compant
Adam Elliott can do in the sphere of adult stop
motion animation. I mean, he's in acclaimation. This is a
film that's ninety four minutes in duration, it runs, it's
emerated as well. And what Adam Elliott has going for
him is that his storytelling is quite quirky and yet

(36:37):
it's accessible. And this is his second feature after Mary
and Max took eight years to make. I mean, and
I'll give you some of the statistics and then I'll
talk to you about about the film. You've just got
every prop every object in this film is real, So
he's basically there's no CGI. More than seven thousand individual

(37:01):
items were handcrafted over nearly a year, and so each
of the props and the sets and the characters have
been developed by a team of artists and technicians and
they use things like clay and plasticine, silicon, wire, paper,
and paint. And five, for example, is made from crumpled
yellow and red cellophane tears from glycerine water. Well that's

(37:25):
from a mix of clear plastic and lubricant and smoke,
while it's cotton wool and rain drops of the bubbles
from bubble wrap. So you've got seven animators having worked
ten hours a day over more than half a year
to animate frame by frame three hundred and ten thousand

(37:45):
individual movements that were needed to create this movie. And
you've even got I mean, Adam Elliott was born with
a hereditary shake is incorporated that into this movie because
while crafting Memory of as Snile, he had signed throughout
the studio that read chunky wonky. And what that meant
is that every asset had to look flawed and asymmetrical,

(38:07):
as if it was made in a great hurry or
by someone who was drunk, So to me, it's quite
an extraordinary of filmmaking, and it's got a storyline that's
engaging and left of center. There's so much going on,
so much to see. It's kind of driven me to
try and see Memoir of a Snail again for a
second time very soon. It's the work of real orteur

(38:31):
and it's got originality stamped all over it, So it's
the heartfelt story drawn from personal experiences. The Taylor a
loner who befriends an older woman and her name is
Grace Prudell, and she's a bit of a misfit who
collects ornamental snails and she also loves books. Now, at
a young age, through adverse circumstances, she separated from her

(38:55):
twin brother, Gilbert, who happens to be obsessed with fire.
So the pairs farmed out to different families in different states,
different AUSSI states, and they're long way apart, and she
falls into this spiral of anxiety in despair. Hardship appears
to be her a lot, but hope emerges when she

(39:16):
connects with this aging woman called Pinky, and Pinky embraces
life on her own terms. She's made of the right stuff.
She's gritty, she's determined, and in time her words of
wisdom will rub off on Grace, who tells her story
to a humble garden snail named Sylvia. So in all

(39:38):
of Elliot's films, the protagonists through outsiders. So it is
here and this memoir of a snail is infused with
light and shade. And Elliot connects to his audience by
layering pathos with humor, and it reflects the darkness and
joy of everyday life. So he drew on what he
calls the semi hoarding of his mum and the color

(40:00):
full life of a friend who happened to be a
collector and told in thralling anecdotes to inform his screenplay.
So I thought the result was really extremely compelling. You
never know where it's going to head, and that's a positive. Infact.
It often surprises by changing direction. And he's also drawn
on top tier talent to voice the characters. Sarah Snook,

(40:20):
she's the glue that binds it together, the voice of her.
She plays the out of sorts Grace Brudell opposite Cody
Smick mcpheear's as Gilbert the Twin. Jackie Weaver brings attitude
and resolved to Pinky and Magda Zebanski cast is a
gay conversion therapy leader. How good is that? As potent
as is the storyline, it's the look and feel of

(40:41):
Elliott's films that are such distinguishing features, and I thought
this was quite special memoir of a snail, Peter, what
did you think of a mation?

Speaker 4 (40:54):
A wonderful, Absolutely wonderful. I've liked all of Adam Elliott's
short films and plus Mari and Max, and of course
now this one memoir of the Snail. It is so
beautifully written, very bittersweet. It sort of looks at life
and death, that looks at so many particular humane issues,

(41:17):
and he writes so well. His stories are so compelling,
and that's what I love about it. But yes, you've
also elucidated the way he structures the film, his clamations,
the stop motion work, and the models and so on
that are constructed, including a wonderful model of Lunar Park,

(41:40):
which I thought was that.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yes, own, I want to own some of this stuff
and put it on my handle. But it is so
it's just extraordinary, like he's taken playmation to a whole
new level as far as I'm concerned, and I mean
eight years to make a movie. Wow, you know, and
he used the time, he used COVID very very wisely, right.

(42:04):
I mean he did because he he sort of did
all these storyboards, right. And I mean the guy there's
got the guy's got a different mindset I reckon to
most other human beings. And I love that about him. Yeah,
I agree better, I agree.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
I just wanted to say that the film has not
only one best Film at the Anise Animation Film Festival,
but just a few days ago was best Film overall
at the London Film Festival, which is quite incredible.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Wow, that's that's superb, superb. Now, Jackie, have you seen
this one?

Speaker 1 (42:40):
I have seen Memoir of a Snail twice. Well, that
so much the first time, you know, and I think
I whilst taking notes as I was watching it, and
I was afraid that I missed the little bits because
there's so much going on in every that I and

(43:01):
I wanted to really enjoy it the second time. When
I say enjoy this is not for childrens, Peter one,
he's motorbike and have you left us?

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Have you? You're sort of free in the wind you're
on Route sixty six at the moment, I.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
No, I'm here, so i've It's mostly a film that's
shot in brown tones brown and in fact in Canberra,
and the couple's favorite color is beige and they don't
like sharp corners. It's a you know, it's not a
children's film. And I made a list of what I

(43:44):
thought were some or most of the issues that are covered,
and it's everything from grief, pyromania, aging process, loneliness, weight gain,
sexual perversion, hoarding while collecting becomes hoarding of course, poverty,
physical figament, addiction, bullying, abuse, danger, homosexual I mean, you know,

(44:05):
they're the themes of this film. But what a joy
it is because of that very dry, ry humor and
the little physical attributes we see going on in the characters,
as well as the very quiet language that we see
as well. Pinky played by Jackie owned voice by Jackie
Weaver is an absolute joy and it is worth seeing

(44:28):
the film for the maybe forty five seconds in which
we learn how she lost a part of a finger,
just to see that little skit. It's worth seeing the film.
I just really loved Memoir of Busl which is actually
a story narrated by Grace Puddle spelt pied elm as

(44:48):
in the puddle the Grace Puddle to Sylvia the snail,
and the narration goes back and forth to her. Ninety
four minutes is a long film for Acclaim, and I
thought it was just the right length for this, so
I probably wouldn't have needed it to be any longer,
but it was perfect here. And it's all the secondary

(45:09):
characters as well, Gilbert and Gracie's father in the wheelchair
and how he got to be in the wheelchair and
how he met their mum, and all these little backstories
just sprinkled through and add to the this universe we're
seeing in Brown. If you're like exactly know Alex that

(45:35):
Adam Elliott, they melt down the clay. Afterwards they just
let it go and reuse it, be repurpose it, which
it is.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
It's my treasure.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Well, they did actually have an exhibition that actme. I
think it was after Mary Max and that was I
did see that, and that was absolutely wonderful. But he says, look,
the models don't mean anything. In fact, a lot of
them don't even have acts. You know, if you're only
shooting from the front. They don't even have a back
that's made up, he said, because the actual models are
nearly a vehicle to tell the story that you'll see

(46:10):
when you're in the cinema on screen. And I get that.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah, look, obviously I understand that as well as somebody
who is a collector who appreciates this sort of stuff.
I suppose you know that's a selfish ideal that I've got,
because I mean, it's it's interesting how cartoons.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
You're not tipping over to hoarding, aren't you, Alex, Because
you know this is a mental condition. You know, it's
a it's a it's it's a problem.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yes, yeah, I'm sure that I've got you'd say, I've
got lots of Yeah. Should I look back in my
chair and you can you can do the psychological evaluation?
Should you do that now?

Speaker 3 (46:52):
So long?

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Actually don't have Guggenheimer's as she.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
Said, Yes, I but no, No, What I was going
to say is you think about cartoonists or caricaturists or whatever,
but cartoonists in particular where you've got whole comic Connen
and all that sort of stuff, and collectibles become a
real thing. People get obsessed with that sort of thing.

(47:16):
You look at Taylor Swift and you get the bands
and all that sort of stuff. People like things that
they appreciate, you know, like it could be a Star
Wars toy or it could be it's kind of like that,
and I know that's cheap commercialism, but the truth of
the matter is that people hang their hats on these
sorts of things. So that's part of the reason, you know.

(47:38):
I think Adam Elliot's movies are extraordinary, and I can't
imagine what sort of it must have been a really
unusual child as well. His mind is it shouldn't be
bottled because we need he was a bit.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Of a I think he said he was a bit
of a loner as a kid and he got bullet
and bullying is another of the issues covered in this.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
True Well tell me Jackie score out of ten Memoir
of a Snyle emorated ninety four minutes. What is it
for you?

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Nine out of ten?

Speaker 4 (48:07):
Mm hmm, Peter, I absolutely love that, can't fault it.
Love the way that Adam uses narration rather than dialogue
between people, so it doesn't have to have mouth movements.
I mean, there's so much of intriguing this beautifully constructed
film ten out of ten.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Oh wow, and I'm giving it an eight. Look. That
is fabulous, really really good. We're limited in our time
and we've got a lot of movies that we haven't
got to I think because not many people have seen it,
but amongst this group. But I think I'll mention from
Hilda with Love and save the others. From Hilda with

(48:48):
Love is an AME rated movie. It runs for two
hours and four minutes. It's a really harrowing World War
two drama, so it sort of correlates if you like,
to Lee. And it's based on the true story of
Hilda and Hands Copy and he was a revolutionary in
Germany when Hitler was in power, and he learned Morse
code to liaise with the Russians. He was together with

(49:12):
others men and women in an eighteen Nazi resistance movement.
The stakes were really high if they were caught, of course,
and he had already spent time in prison. She I
said Hilda and Ann's copied. She was a conservative dental
assistant who was with another bloke when a hands caught

(49:32):
her eye and the pair fell in love. And Hilda
was this really good typist and ended up working with
Hands so he could master Morse code. And then in
nineteen forty two, this pair and other members of what
the Gestapo Red Orchestra were arrested and charged with treason
and espionage. So the story moves back and forth from

(49:54):
her courtship with Hands and their activities with other activists,
to what happens to High Hilda once she has been incarcerated,
and as she awaits a sentence, she reminisces about her
involvement with Hands and their romance being the most beautiful
summer of her life. Their fate may be sealed because
the evidence against them is damning, damning, pardon me, But

(50:18):
she must also contend with giving birth in custody in
harsh conditions. And I thought lively sa Frees was captivating
in the lead role. She commands attention with her portrayal
of humanity and courage, and with our Hilda copes in
the most fraud of circumstances, and what we see is
a remarkable inner strength in her characterization. Johattas Igemann is

(50:41):
more gung ho A's Hands is tall, is dashing, is
driven by the cause, but clearly fools very hard for Hilda.
Another note in the cast is Lisa Wagner, who plays
a sour faced by the rules prisoners called Annalise Kohn,
who over time comes to admire Hilda's kindness and quiet resolve.

(51:05):
The writer Lilah Steiler, I thought she showed an acute
awareness of the human condition in crafting another deeply, deeply
affecting tale. There are no big pardons in Andreas Dressen's
Warts in all direction. He tells it like it is.
He juxtaposes the undeniable connection between Hilda and Hands with

(51:26):
the brutality of the Germans. So it is that the
film's strong production values the ones had come to the fore.
Particularly noteworthy is that the claustrophobia associated with this single
cell contrast to the freedom of camping, which is basically
a key point in the sort of telling the story.

(51:47):
So from Hilda with Love it's reminition of the themes
and the impact of remember the psychological drama The Lives
of Others that came out about eight eight years ago.
This is a really distressing film that not only resonated
with me while I watched the barbarism unfold, but long
after I left the cinema. But you've also seen it
so did you also think highly of it?

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Very much so.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
Andreas Daisen is an important German filmmaker and what he's
done is he's looked at a resistance movement during World
War Two, anti Nazi movement, a bit like the story
of the White Rose, and he has done a superb job,
if somewhat grimm of course, in documenting this group and

(52:32):
their attempts to overthrow or resist. Certainly the Nazi movement
beautifully told. And it was the opening night film at
the German Film Festival in Australia. Superb film.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Yeah, really superb film. And I mean the other two
of you haven't seen it yet perhaps, I mean, if
you get the chance, pard me say again, yes I have,
Oh you have? I'm sorry, Jackie say what were your thoughts?

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Ah? Yes, it was beautiful. They put together beautifully shot
at the contrasts in the two aspects of the Live
their Lives was very strong and it certainly left a
very strong impression right at the end. Was quite powerful.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Yeah, I mean, how do you see It's a totally
different take, but you know you've got the Lee is
the war photographer, and he have got people in the
heart of it fighting the Nazi regime.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
In their own way, two different sides, two different stories
in the in the events that no one ever wants
to hear of again. So score out of ten happening again.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Yeah, score out of ten Beta, I love the film.
Nine out of ten Wow from Hildeweth. Love runs one
hundred and twenty four minutes. It's rated. Ma, I'm giving
it an eight out of ten Jackie and a seven
from me and from you, So it didn't didn't affect
you as much as perhaps it could have them and

(54:05):
seven is still a good mark, but it's not a great.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Mark probably just you know, the final scenes of it
were the strongest part of the film for me.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Yes, all right, folks, well, Gregory King, thank you so
much for your contribution. Jackie Hamerton and Pete Brouse. I
appreciate it too, and we will do it all again
next week on First On Film and Entertainment.

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