September 7, 2023 • 25 mins
hy is cold therapy so hot right now? On this show, Karolyn talks with integrative medicine pioneer Ronald Hoffman, MD, to discuss the healing potential of cold exposure. They will discuss why and how cold can help us heal and ways to incorporate this healing method into your life. OK it's time to just chill out, listen, and learn :)
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET.
Five To Thrive Live Radio Show is broadcast on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cs.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Five To Thrive Live is broadcast live Tuesdays at 7PM ET.
Five To Thrive Live Radio Show is broadcast on W4CS Radio – The Cancer Support Network (www.w4cs.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Five To Thrive Live Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguests should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Good Hello, everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live.
(00:43):
I'm Carolyn Gazella and I co hostthe show with my good friend doctor
Lise ol Schuler. Today we're goingto talk about the healing power of cold.
Now. That sounds interesting, doesn'tit. But first I'd like to
thank our sponsors. N f His an innovative dietary supplement manufacturer that uses
an evidence based approach to creating highquality dietary supplements for integrative healthcare professionals.
(01:07):
If you want the highest level ofconfidence in the dietary supplements you take,
ask for ask your integrative practitioner aboutNFH products. You can find more at
NFH dot CAA next Amuse a uniquepatented postbiotic that gives your immune system a
key advantage. Amused is an ingredientin many immune supporting dietary supplements. Look
for amuse on the label or goto amusehealth dot com for more information.
(01:32):
Also Cognizance that of colin, whichis nature's way of keeping the brain's energy
producing centers firing on all cylinders.If you're looking for a way to enhance
your brain function including memory, focusand attention, look for Cognizant on the
label or go to Cognizant dot comfor more information. And doctor or hero
Is Probiotics. It's a best sellingprobiotic for more than thirty years. It
contains twelve probiotic strains that are shelfstable, so no refrigeration is required because
(01:56):
of a unique three year fermentation process. It's a very effective probiotic. Learn
more at doctor Ohroprobotics dot com.So with me today is doctor Ronald Hoffman,
who is recognized as one of America'sforemost integrative medicine doctors. He was
the founder of the Hoffman Center inNew York City and is the host of
the popular radio show and podcast calledIntelligent Medicine. Thanks for joining me,
(02:22):
doctor Hoffman. It's my great pleasure. Carolin, Well, I am fascinated
by this subject, so let's justjump right in. We're talking about cold
therapy. So what conditions may benefitfrom cold therapy. Well, it's actually
a very ancient therapy and in morerecent times it was used in insane asylums
(02:47):
as a way of treating psychiatric patients, maybe to their detriment, you know,
before such things as shock therapy andpharmaceutical drugs came into vogue. But
it's actually been shown to have benefitsin terms of metabolism, and there may
also be some immune enhancement associated withit. It is something that may unlock
(03:13):
the key to weight loss as well, so very very interesting research around that.
Yeah, definitely, it's interesting becauseyou know, I'm one of these
people that likes to escape the cold, not go towards the cold. So
when I first heard about this,you know, I have friends who do
it and they just swear by itwas I was just quite captivated. So
(03:35):
I want to talk a little bitmore about mechanisms and how cold therapy works.
Beginning with weight loss. How doescold therapy encourage healthy weight? Well,
the basic concept behind it is hormesis, which translates to whatever doesn't kill
you makes you stronger, and thatmay be the case for metabolism as well.
(03:59):
Because unturn recently, it was thoughtthat humans were born with two types
of fat cells, the white fatcells that give us those unsightly bulgars that
we're trying to get rid of.But also there was some brown fat,
brown fat present in babies, butthen it was thought that by adulthood it
was gone. New imaging techniques haveenabled us to see the brown fat,
(04:24):
very small areas of brown fat,which is active metabolic fat, you could
call it fat burning fat that isassociated with production of certain substances, including
something called a diponectin. Diponectin isvery interesting because low levels of it are
associated with cardiovascular risk, diabetes,and overweight, and by boosting a diponectin
(04:48):
there may be some benefits. Soyeah, the science is beginning to coalesce
around cold therapy as a means oftreating certain conditions. Yeah, it's interesting
because I just wrote about white versusbrown fat and its role in weight gain
(05:08):
and weight loss, and in thescientific literature it's called the Beijing or the
browning of our fat cells. It'squite fascinating. It might be a real
link to sustainable weight loss, SoI find that pretty interesting. I want
to stay on this subject of mechanismsassociated with cold therapy because I just want
to make sure that our listeners understandhow and why it works. Now,
(05:31):
I was researching the vagus nerve recentlyand I ran across one very very small
study on how cold helps stimulate thevegus nerve, which then in turn helps
you know, induce calmness and youknow, has all kinds of benefits.
So take us through. Are thereany other mechanisms or have you have you
(05:57):
read about the connection between the vagusnerve and and could therapy. Well,
it's clear that cold therapy creates changesin neurotransmitters. It increases catecholamines, the
so called feel good neurotransmitters. Italso increases dopamine, which is the reward
neurotransmitter. So they're definitely psychological benefitsto exposure to cold, and that may
(06:19):
be why, for example, innavy seal training, cold exposure is used
to build resilience. There's also evidencethat, you know, you don't have
to immerse yourself in an ice bathto gain the benefits of cold temperatures at
night to have deeper sleep, Sothat's a variation on that theme. It
(06:43):
doesn't require deep immersion in cold ora cold shower to obtain that interesting Okay,
so let's talk details. First,Let's talk about safety. Are there
people who should not do a coldplut Jenny contradications any safety issues from your
perspective. Yes, there is thisthing called a cold shock response, which
(07:10):
is what happens when you have rapidimmersion in something cold, which then many
of us are familiar with that.You know, we jump off a pier
into a lake and we think it'swarm, but it's actually pretty darn cold,
and we tend to gasp, wetend to hyperventilate, our heart rate
goes up. And that may befine if you're in good physical conditioning condition,
but if you have an underlying cardiovascularproblem, if you're not used to
(07:36):
it, if you're frail and elderly, maybe that's not the best idea because
it literally can cause a cardiac arrhythmiaand that can be very dangerous. Yeah,
I would think so, And Iwant to go back to what it's
good for. Some of my friendsare doing it because they feel it has
(08:00):
and you mentioned the immune and metabolismthings like that, but that it almost
has like anti aging benefits. Wouldthat be because it's just provide you know,
the ner transmitters and the metabolism andhealthy weight and the immune system.
Does that all get wrapped up intothis like, okay, I want to
I want to age in a morehealthy manner. Well, there's evidence in
(08:24):
simple animals, uh, certainly onecelled organisms, you know, very simple
invertebrates that if you keep in acold or temperature, it's kind of like
putting them in the refrigerator to preservethem, they live longer. When you
go up the evolutionary chain to mammalsand to humans. Actually, there was
an intriguing study that suggests that peoplewho live in cold climates may live longer,
(08:48):
which bodes ill for global warming,I suppose. But uh, there
there are a variety of mechanisms forthat, but some of it may have
to do with a slowing down ofthe metabolism. The faster you burn through
your cell cycles, you know,live fast, die young. You know
that expression. Well, if youput yourself in the ice box, maybe
(09:11):
you can slow down that inevitable process. Okay, okay, So take us
through what a cold plunge is.Like, I have not done a cold
plunge with my friends. I've kindof left that up to them. But
take us through it. What's thetemperature, how long, etc. Etc.
Well, there are various ways todo it. I mean, there
are cryotherapy booths that had been popularrecently, and what they do is they
(09:39):
take your temperature down to very verylow temperatures with liquid nitrogen for very short
periods of time, and then youwear like little gloves and booties to make
sure your extremities don't freeze. Butthat has not really panned out in terms
of the research benefits. What seemsto work better is immersion in cold water.
(10:03):
I mean, there's some benefits toyou know, sitting with scant clothing
in a cool room. You actuallywill buy something called adaptive thermogenesis. You
will actually stimulate your brown fat ifyou do it on a routine basis.
And you know, that's another argumentfor taking walks in cold weather. You're
(10:24):
going to get some of that benefit. But the way that people do it,
you know, this is sort ofthe thing that's been populated by wim
Hoff. You know, the wimHoff folks believe that you need to immerse
yourself in cold water, and therea couple of ways to do that.
One is, you can start byturning the water to cold in a shower
and do it for thirty seconds andit will be quite challenging at first,
(10:48):
and then see if you can extendit to a minute. Ideally you will
do it for a total of twoto three minutes. Okay, but you
need to get used to it.Another way is to immerse yourself in a
cold tub or a cold body ofwater where the temperature is around It has
to be less than, you know, the sixties. It should be in
the fifties, maybe fifty five degrees. Now you don't want a two cold.
(11:11):
You don't want to go into reallyan ice bath because you can actually
develop frost bite from that kind ofexposure. So fifty pretty challenging to remain
in there for a few minutes oftime. Another thing that's been suggested is
that you know the temptation you dothat could sure and you say, wow,
you know that's really cold. Letme turn on the warm water.
(11:31):
Odd, it feels good. What, according to some experts, what you
need to do is turn it offafter you've got your cold exposure and then
spend a little time walking around wetas you experience a bit of a shiver
response. That kind of accentuates thebenefits of cold exposure. Rather than turning
(11:52):
them off with a warm sequel toyour cold exposure. Interesting, Yeah,
you know, I have my friendswho are doing it there. They like
fill up one of these steel watertroughs that you'd find it a farm and
they and they you know, sinkinto that. It's interesting that you mentioned
(12:13):
the shower because I remember back inthe day Lisa and I were writing about
hydrotherapy and uh, you know kindof like doing easy economical hydrotherapy in the
shower, and so do you Isthere a recommendation that when you do the
cold and after you have that shiverresponse, that you alternate and you do
(12:37):
because I know, I'm in I'min New Mexico and we have these spas
that are yeah you do a coldplus yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
So take us through that. Whatwhat's the difference between that and just a
plain old cold plunge. Well,that can be very therapeutic perhaps after a
workout. But there's kind of aparadox about cold disposure after workout. You
(13:01):
know, you've seen these pictures ofyou know, these football players, you
know, after a tough game,jumping into a tub full of ice,
you know, and you go,whoa those guys are tough, and what
they're doing is they're actually accelerating theirrecovery because their muscles are inflamed. They've
you been banging around a lot.So while cold exposure helps recovery and reduces
(13:26):
inflammation, it may be contraindicated ifyou want to build strength and bulk because
the very inflammation that occurs when youlift weights, for example, UH is
associated with building strength and building musclevolume. So you paradoxically you might get
a better recovery, but you mightattenuate the gain the benefits of the exercise.
(13:54):
Yeah, I see that. Andthen what about the alternating cold versus
hot? Is that something that isbeneficial? I think that's been less studied.
What, you know, the puristsbelieve in, you know, simple
cold exposure with a period where you'rekind of drawing off. You might be
(14:16):
experiencing the aftermath of cold, butwithout relieving it with you know, the
warmth that you really seek out.Ultimately, you know, you do warm
up, but you want to leaveyourself with the aftermath of the cold for
a little longer to obtain the fullbenefits, to get that kind of shiver
(14:37):
response. So exactly. Yeah,So ideally you said two to three minutes
that we want to stay in thecold or if we're if we're doing it
in the shower, we want tobe able to get hit with that cold
water for two to three minutes.Is the goal to do it even longer?
Or do you come out of thecold plunge and then go back in?
(15:00):
I mean, is there any benefitto extending that time? Well,
there may be, and I thinkthe research has to bear that out.
I've experienced longer exposures because it wasactually kind of an accident. Is during
COVID, all the you know,I'm a swimmer, and all the pools
were closed. And it's great duringthe summer, I just go to the
(15:20):
beach and swim you know, openwater, but with all the gyms closed,
I had to protract my open waterswimming until November. Now Here in
the Northeast where I live in NewYork, water temperature goes down into the
low to mid fifties in November,and so I was swimming, albeit with
(15:41):
a wet suit, in water thatwas around fifty four degrees and my swims
would last typically twenty to thirty minutes. And that really gives you a much
longer cold exposure that definitely engenders ashiver response. You know, you get
home and kind of you know,your teeth are chattering, and eventually you
(16:03):
get more used to it. Butthere are people who do this without a
wetsuit. They'll swim in San FranciscoBay for long periods of time just a
matter of getting used to it.Whether they obtained a greater benefit than the
folks who shower down for a coupleof minutes, that remains unclear. I
think more studies need to be done. Yeah, it's interesting because I have
a close friend who's an elite swimmer, long distance swimmer, and she has
(16:27):
done that swim to Alcatraz. Yeah, it's a cold swim, and she's
done it numerous times, like twentytimes. But one of the things that
she does to prepare for that swimis really really cold showers, and she
says it just and she also wearsa wetsuit. But she's in that cold
(16:49):
water for a long time, youknow, so you really have to acclimate
and get used to the cold water. So you have, so you've done
cold water in the open swim,but have you actually done the cold plunges.
I have not accepted it out likeyou mentioned, at a resort,
(17:11):
in a resort setting, and Ireally enjoyed that. And I actually found
that because of my open water swimming, I had a little more resistance to
the cold than some of the otherguests. Some of the other guests,
you know, in my party,Uh, they just tried the cold plunge
and they said, this is notfor me. But you know, because
I acclimated to it, you know, maybe if i'd done it just uh,
(17:34):
you know, for the first time, it would have been you know,
so unpleasant that I couldn't have doneit. But again, it's something
that you can acclimate too. Andhey, you know there's something about these
types of experiences. Uh. There'sa book called the Comfort Crisis. It's
a fascinating book that talks about howmodern man doesn't experience discomfort very much.
(17:59):
You know. We we live inair conditioned dwellings, and we have heat
in the winter. We seldom gethungry because food is always available. Uh.
And in terms of you know,athletic exploits, while some people pursue
them, but most people don't.Uh. And so we become too accustomed
to a very narrow range of experience, and these types of experiences, exposure
(18:26):
to cold, you know, intenseexercise, even intense heat, you know,
saying saunas. Uh, these experiencestend to build adaptability and resilience.
And and that's why, you know, I really support uh this movement.
I think I think it's great.Not for everyone, but you know,
I think it's beyond just a passingfad. Yeah. And it's it's interesting
(18:48):
because there there can be healing withdiscomfort. I you know, you and
I have had conversations in the pastabout eating habits and the fact that getting
in feeling hungry is not such abad thing. You know that that that
discomfort of boy, I'm really hungryright now, like when you're doing a
fast or overnight fast or whatever,that that uncomfortable feeling of boy, I'm
(19:14):
hungry is actually a good thing.Yeah. It means that your body is
undergoing kind of a clean up processwhere there's cellular renewal, there's immune boost
associated with that, uh, andcertainly there is some fat burning. So
I teach my patients to you know, I say say, after me,
(19:36):
hunger is my friend. Hunger ismy friend. That's your mantra. You
know, don't don't feel it it'ssuch an aversive thing. It's part of
our evolutionary heritage. So who wouldyou recommend this cold therapy to? What?
What type of person or what typeof patient? What would their their
(19:56):
goals be? And who who wouldyou say, you know what, maybe
you should try cold therapy. Ithink it's ideal for patients with the metabolic
problems. I have a patient who'svery overweight, was experiencing sluggishness. She's
diabetic, and she decided to getone of these cold plunge units. You
know, they actually it's installed inyour yard and it's basically a trough with
(20:21):
you know, instead of a heatedswimming pool, it's a it's a cold
trough. And she now does itand she is really become an enthusiast because
she says it it is so energizesher. She's lost weight. Uh,
it's really been sort of a wakeup call to metabolism and and to her
brain. It's really she's become anenthusiast. So I'm gonna suggest that for
(20:45):
you know, those are so inclinedas part of a healthy regiment. Now,
this doesn't preclude the use of thatby other people. I might add
that, you know, condition calledrainos syndrome where they have poor circulation to
the extremities and even when they're ina cold room, their fingers get white
and blue. It may not beideal for people with that condition, but
(21:07):
for most people, you know,without severe underlying health problems. I think
that there definitely is a benefit.Interesting and how frequently in order to get
the benefits? Like your patient,who's who's doing it? I mean,
is it a couple of times aweek or is it something that you have
to do daily? I think thatit can be done on a sporadic basis.
(21:30):
But I think in order to progressand build tolerance, uh, you
know, start slowly, build upgradually with daily sessions lasting for you know,
thirty seconds to a minute under theshower, in a tub, and
then build up from there. Youknow. I think that the longer that
(21:52):
you practice it, the more likelyyour body is going to develop a responsiveness.
Interesting. Well, I want totalk about intelligent medicine. But before
I go there, do you haveany final thoughts or words associated with the
cold therapy that you think our listenersshould know about. No, I think
(22:15):
that you know, we covered mostof the grant. I mean, in
addition, there. I think thereare psychological benefits to it as well,
so you know, if even ifyou don't have way to lose, I
think it might be beneficial in thatrespect, right, which that would kind
of tie back to that vegas nervestimulation where you get mental health benefits there.
(22:38):
Yeah, that's good. Well,I'd like to talk about intelligent medicine
because this is something that you havebeen doing for a lot of time.
And I have to tell you,doctor Hoffman, I look forward to your
newsletter blog every week and it's justa ton of information. So how long
have you been doing intelligent medicine andjust tell us a little bit more about
(23:02):
that and what people will find whenthey go to intelligent medicine. Well this
may date me, but I'm nowcelebrating my thirty fifth year Intelligent Man.
It used to be called Health Talk. It was a nationally syndicated radio program.
It still is under the name IntelligentMedicine. But I used to broadcast
five days a week and on Saturdaysfor six days. And now with the
(23:27):
advent of podcasts, I've made fiveweekly podcasts available along with a live weekend
program. So you can go toDierhoffman dot com and check it out.
And then obviously the newsletter is alsoa source of information. You know,
my mission statement is in addition toseeing patients, I want to leverage my
(23:47):
expertise, not just one on one, but you know, getting the word
out like you do. I thinkit's an important service. Yeah, I
would agree, and you do agreat job of that. So that's a
doctor Hoffman dot com. I'll haveto subscribe to your podcast or do they
have to subscribe to get to yourinformation? Not necessarily. I mean for
those who choose not to subscribe,you can, you know, sort of
(24:10):
painstakingly download each podcast, but youcan subscribe via Apple, podcast, Stitcher,
Spotify, all the major podcasts servicescarry it, and you know,
when you subscribe, it arrives inyour on a regular pass. All right,
yeah, that's perfect. Well,doctor Hoffman, this has been great.
(24:30):
I really appreciate you joining me todayand keep up the great work with
intelligent Medicine. Well, thank youso much, Carolyn and you likewise,
and regards to Lee's al Shirler,Yes, yes, she's doing great.
Okay, Well, thanks again,and that wraps up this episode of Five
(24:51):
to Thrive Live. Once again,I'd like to thank our sponsors n f
H the Professional Supplement Line, bridgingthe gap between nutraceuticals and evidence based medicine.
Amused postbiotic to give your immune systemthat extra boost, cogniz instead of
colin to help enhance memory, focusand attention. And of course doctor Will
here is award winning shelf stable probiotic. All right, everyone, may you
(25:15):
experience joy, laughter and love.It's time to thrive. Everyone, have
a great night. Good good
Any health related information on the followingshow provides general information only. Content presented
on any show by any host orguests should not be substituted for a doctor's
advice. Always consult your physician beforebeginning any new diet, exercise, or
treatment program. Good Hello, everyone, and welcome to Five to Thrive Live.
(00:43):
I'm Carolyn Gazella and I co hostthe show with my good friend doctor
Lise ol Schuler. Today we're goingto talk about the healing power of cold.
Now. That sounds interesting, doesn'tit. But first I'd like to
thank our sponsors. N f His an innovative dietary supplement manufacturer that uses
an evidence based approach to creating highquality dietary supplements for integrative healthcare professionals.
(01:07):
If you want the highest level ofconfidence in the dietary supplements you take,
ask for ask your integrative practitioner aboutNFH products. You can find more at
NFH dot CAA next Amuse a uniquepatented postbiotic that gives your immune system a
key advantage. Amused is an ingredientin many immune supporting dietary supplements. Look
for amuse on the label or goto amusehealth dot com for more information.
(01:32):
Also Cognizance that of colin, whichis nature's way of keeping the brain's energy
producing centers firing on all cylinders.If you're looking for a way to enhance
your brain function including memory, focusand attention, look for Cognizant on the
label or go to Cognizant dot comfor more information. And doctor or hero
Is Probiotics. It's a best sellingprobiotic for more than thirty years. It
contains twelve probiotic strains that are shelfstable, so no refrigeration is required because
(01:56):
of a unique three year fermentation process. It's a very effective probiotic. Learn
more at doctor Ohroprobotics dot com.So with me today is doctor Ronald Hoffman,
who is recognized as one of America'sforemost integrative medicine doctors. He was
the founder of the Hoffman Center inNew York City and is the host of
the popular radio show and podcast calledIntelligent Medicine. Thanks for joining me,
(02:22):
doctor Hoffman. It's my great pleasure. Carolin, Well, I am fascinated
by this subject, so let's justjump right in. We're talking about cold
therapy. So what conditions may benefitfrom cold therapy. Well, it's actually
a very ancient therapy and in morerecent times it was used in insane asylums
(02:47):
as a way of treating psychiatric patients, maybe to their detriment, you know,
before such things as shock therapy andpharmaceutical drugs came into vogue. But
it's actually been shown to have benefitsin terms of metabolism, and there may
also be some immune enhancement associated withit. It is something that may unlock
(03:13):
the key to weight loss as well, so very very interesting research around that.
Yeah, definitely, it's interesting becauseyou know, I'm one of these
people that likes to escape the cold, not go towards the cold. So
when I first heard about this,you know, I have friends who do
it and they just swear by itwas I was just quite captivated. So
(03:35):
I want to talk a little bitmore about mechanisms and how cold therapy works.
Beginning with weight loss. How doescold therapy encourage healthy weight? Well,
the basic concept behind it is hormesis, which translates to whatever doesn't kill
you makes you stronger, and thatmay be the case for metabolism as well.
(03:59):
Because unturn recently, it was thoughtthat humans were born with two types
of fat cells, the white fatcells that give us those unsightly bulgars that
we're trying to get rid of.But also there was some brown fat,
brown fat present in babies, butthen it was thought that by adulthood it
was gone. New imaging techniques haveenabled us to see the brown fat,
(04:24):
very small areas of brown fat,which is active metabolic fat, you could
call it fat burning fat that isassociated with production of certain substances, including
something called a diponectin. Diponectin isvery interesting because low levels of it are
associated with cardiovascular risk, diabetes,and overweight, and by boosting a diponectin
(04:48):
there may be some benefits. Soyeah, the science is beginning to coalesce
around cold therapy as a means oftreating certain conditions. Yeah, it's interesting
because I just wrote about white versusbrown fat and its role in weight gain
(05:08):
and weight loss, and in thescientific literature it's called the Beijing or the
browning of our fat cells. It'squite fascinating. It might be a real
link to sustainable weight loss, SoI find that pretty interesting. I want
to stay on this subject of mechanismsassociated with cold therapy because I just want
to make sure that our listeners understandhow and why it works. Now,
(05:31):
I was researching the vagus nerve recentlyand I ran across one very very small
study on how cold helps stimulate thevegus nerve, which then in turn helps
you know, induce calmness and youknow, has all kinds of benefits.
So take us through. Are thereany other mechanisms or have you have you
(05:57):
read about the connection between the vagusnerve and and could therapy. Well,
it's clear that cold therapy creates changesin neurotransmitters. It increases catecholamines, the
so called feel good neurotransmitters. Italso increases dopamine, which is the reward
neurotransmitter. So they're definitely psychological benefitsto exposure to cold, and that may
(06:19):
be why, for example, innavy seal training, cold exposure is used
to build resilience. There's also evidencethat, you know, you don't have
to immerse yourself in an ice bathto gain the benefits of cold temperatures at
night to have deeper sleep, Sothat's a variation on that theme. It
(06:43):
doesn't require deep immersion in cold ora cold shower to obtain that interesting Okay,
so let's talk details. First,Let's talk about safety. Are there
people who should not do a coldplut Jenny contradications any safety issues from your
perspective. Yes, there is thisthing called a cold shock response, which
(07:10):
is what happens when you have rapidimmersion in something cold, which then many
of us are familiar with that.You know, we jump off a pier
into a lake and we think it'swarm, but it's actually pretty darn cold,
and we tend to gasp, wetend to hyperventilate, our heart rate
goes up. And that may befine if you're in good physical conditioning condition,
but if you have an underlying cardiovascularproblem, if you're not used to
(07:36):
it, if you're frail and elderly, maybe that's not the best idea because
it literally can cause a cardiac arrhythmiaand that can be very dangerous. Yeah,
I would think so, And Iwant to go back to what it's
good for. Some of my friendsare doing it because they feel it has
(08:00):
and you mentioned the immune and metabolismthings like that, but that it almost
has like anti aging benefits. Wouldthat be because it's just provide you know,
the ner transmitters and the metabolism andhealthy weight and the immune system.
Does that all get wrapped up intothis like, okay, I want to
I want to age in a morehealthy manner. Well, there's evidence in
(08:24):
simple animals, uh, certainly onecelled organisms, you know, very simple
invertebrates that if you keep in acold or temperature, it's kind of like
putting them in the refrigerator to preservethem, they live longer. When you
go up the evolutionary chain to mammalsand to humans. Actually, there was
an intriguing study that suggests that peoplewho live in cold climates may live longer,
(08:48):
which bodes ill for global warming,I suppose. But uh, there
there are a variety of mechanisms forthat, but some of it may have
to do with a slowing down ofthe metabolism. The faster you burn through
your cell cycles, you know,live fast, die young. You know
that expression. Well, if youput yourself in the ice box, maybe
(09:11):
you can slow down that inevitable process. Okay, okay, So take us
through what a cold plunge is.Like, I have not done a cold
plunge with my friends. I've kindof left that up to them. But
take us through it. What's thetemperature, how long, etc. Etc.
Well, there are various ways todo it. I mean, there
are cryotherapy booths that had been popularrecently, and what they do is they
(09:39):
take your temperature down to very verylow temperatures with liquid nitrogen for very short
periods of time, and then youwear like little gloves and booties to make
sure your extremities don't freeze. Butthat has not really panned out in terms
of the research benefits. What seemsto work better is immersion in cold water.
(10:03):
I mean, there's some benefits toyou know, sitting with scant clothing
in a cool room. You actuallywill buy something called adaptive thermogenesis. You
will actually stimulate your brown fat ifyou do it on a routine basis.
And you know, that's another argumentfor taking walks in cold weather. You're
(10:24):
going to get some of that benefit. But the way that people do it,
you know, this is sort ofthe thing that's been populated by wim
Hoff. You know, the wimHoff folks believe that you need to immerse
yourself in cold water, and therea couple of ways to do that.
One is, you can start byturning the water to cold in a shower
and do it for thirty seconds andit will be quite challenging at first,
(10:48):
and then see if you can extendit to a minute. Ideally you will
do it for a total of twoto three minutes. Okay, but you
need to get used to it.Another way is to immerse yourself in a
cold tub or a cold body ofwater where the temperature is around It has
to be less than, you know, the sixties. It should be in
the fifties, maybe fifty five degrees. Now you don't want a two cold.
(11:11):
You don't want to go into reallyan ice bath because you can actually
develop frost bite from that kind ofexposure. So fifty pretty challenging to remain
in there for a few minutes oftime. Another thing that's been suggested is
that you know the temptation you dothat could sure and you say, wow,
you know that's really cold. Letme turn on the warm water.
(11:31):
Odd, it feels good. What, according to some experts, what you
need to do is turn it offafter you've got your cold exposure and then
spend a little time walking around wetas you experience a bit of a shiver
response. That kind of accentuates thebenefits of cold exposure. Rather than turning
(11:52):
them off with a warm sequel toyour cold exposure. Interesting, Yeah,
you know, I have my friendswho are doing it there. They like
fill up one of these steel watertroughs that you'd find it a farm and
they and they you know, sinkinto that. It's interesting that you mentioned
(12:13):
the shower because I remember back inthe day Lisa and I were writing about
hydrotherapy and uh, you know kindof like doing easy economical hydrotherapy in the
shower, and so do you Isthere a recommendation that when you do the
cold and after you have that shiverresponse, that you alternate and you do
(12:37):
because I know, I'm in I'min New Mexico and we have these spas
that are yeah you do a coldplus yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
So take us through that. Whatwhat's the difference between that and just a
plain old cold plunge. Well,that can be very therapeutic perhaps after a
workout. But there's kind of aparadox about cold disposure after workout. You
(13:01):
know, you've seen these pictures ofyou know, these football players, you
know, after a tough game,jumping into a tub full of ice,
you know, and you go,whoa those guys are tough, and what
they're doing is they're actually accelerating theirrecovery because their muscles are inflamed. They've
you been banging around a lot.So while cold exposure helps recovery and reduces
(13:26):
inflammation, it may be contraindicated ifyou want to build strength and bulk because
the very inflammation that occurs when youlift weights, for example, UH is
associated with building strength and building musclevolume. So you paradoxically you might get
a better recovery, but you mightattenuate the gain the benefits of the exercise.
(13:54):
Yeah, I see that. Andthen what about the alternating cold versus
hot? Is that something that isbeneficial? I think that's been less studied.
What, you know, the puristsbelieve in, you know, simple
cold exposure with a period where you'rekind of drawing off. You might be
(14:16):
experiencing the aftermath of cold, butwithout relieving it with you know, the
warmth that you really seek out.Ultimately, you know, you do warm
up, but you want to leaveyourself with the aftermath of the cold for
a little longer to obtain the fullbenefits, to get that kind of shiver
(14:37):
response. So exactly. Yeah,So ideally you said two to three minutes
that we want to stay in thecold or if we're if we're doing it
in the shower, we want tobe able to get hit with that cold
water for two to three minutes.Is the goal to do it even longer?
Or do you come out of thecold plunge and then go back in?
(15:00):
I mean, is there any benefitto extending that time? Well,
there may be, and I thinkthe research has to bear that out.
I've experienced longer exposures because it wasactually kind of an accident. Is during
COVID, all the you know,I'm a swimmer, and all the pools
were closed. And it's great duringthe summer, I just go to the
(15:20):
beach and swim you know, openwater, but with all the gyms closed,
I had to protract my open waterswimming until November. Now Here in
the Northeast where I live in NewYork, water temperature goes down into the
low to mid fifties in November,and so I was swimming, albeit with
(15:41):
a wet suit, in water thatwas around fifty four degrees and my swims
would last typically twenty to thirty minutes. And that really gives you a much
longer cold exposure that definitely engenders ashiver response. You know, you get
home and kind of you know,your teeth are chattering, and eventually you
(16:03):
get more used to it. Butthere are people who do this without a
wetsuit. They'll swim in San FranciscoBay for long periods of time just a
matter of getting used to it.Whether they obtained a greater benefit than the
folks who shower down for a coupleof minutes, that remains unclear. I
think more studies need to be done. Yeah, it's interesting because I have
a close friend who's an elite swimmer, long distance swimmer, and she has
(16:27):
done that swim to Alcatraz. Yeah, it's a cold swim, and she's
done it numerous times, like twentytimes. But one of the things that
she does to prepare for that swimis really really cold showers, and she
says it just and she also wearsa wetsuit. But she's in that cold
(16:49):
water for a long time, youknow, so you really have to acclimate
and get used to the cold water. So you have, so you've done
cold water in the open swim,but have you actually done the cold plunges.
I have not accepted it out likeyou mentioned, at a resort,
(17:11):
in a resort setting, and Ireally enjoyed that. And I actually found
that because of my open water swimming, I had a little more resistance to
the cold than some of the otherguests. Some of the other guests,
you know, in my party,Uh, they just tried the cold plunge
and they said, this is notfor me. But you know, because
I acclimated to it, you know, maybe if i'd done it just uh,
(17:34):
you know, for the first time, it would have been you know,
so unpleasant that I couldn't have doneit. But again, it's something
that you can acclimate too. Andhey, you know there's something about these
types of experiences. Uh. There'sa book called the Comfort Crisis. It's
a fascinating book that talks about howmodern man doesn't experience discomfort very much.
(17:59):
You know. We we live inair conditioned dwellings, and we have heat
in the winter. We seldom gethungry because food is always available. Uh.
And in terms of you know,athletic exploits, while some people pursue
them, but most people don't.Uh. And so we become too accustomed
to a very narrow range of experience, and these types of experiences, exposure
(18:26):
to cold, you know, intenseexercise, even intense heat, you know,
saying saunas. Uh, these experiencestend to build adaptability and resilience.
And and that's why, you know, I really support uh this movement.
I think I think it's great.Not for everyone, but you know,
I think it's beyond just a passingfad. Yeah. And it's it's interesting
(18:48):
because there there can be healing withdiscomfort. I you know, you and
I have had conversations in the pastabout eating habits and the fact that getting
in feeling hungry is not such abad thing. You know that that that
discomfort of boy, I'm really hungryright now, like when you're doing a
fast or overnight fast or whatever,that that uncomfortable feeling of boy, I'm
(19:14):
hungry is actually a good thing.Yeah. It means that your body is
undergoing kind of a clean up processwhere there's cellular renewal, there's immune boost
associated with that, uh, andcertainly there is some fat burning. So
I teach my patients to you know, I say say, after me,
(19:36):
hunger is my friend. Hunger ismy friend. That's your mantra. You
know, don't don't feel it it'ssuch an aversive thing. It's part of
our evolutionary heritage. So who wouldyou recommend this cold therapy to? What?
What type of person or what typeof patient? What would their their
(19:56):
goals be? And who who wouldyou say, you know what, maybe
you should try cold therapy. Ithink it's ideal for patients with the metabolic
problems. I have a patient who'svery overweight, was experiencing sluggishness. She's
diabetic, and she decided to getone of these cold plunge units. You
know, they actually it's installed inyour yard and it's basically a trough with
(20:21):
you know, instead of a heatedswimming pool, it's a it's a cold
trough. And she now does itand she is really become an enthusiast because
she says it it is so energizesher. She's lost weight. Uh,
it's really been sort of a wakeup call to metabolism and and to her
brain. It's really she's become anenthusiast. So I'm gonna suggest that for
(20:45):
you know, those are so inclinedas part of a healthy regiment. Now,
this doesn't preclude the use of thatby other people. I might add
that, you know, condition calledrainos syndrome where they have poor circulation to
the extremities and even when they're ina cold room, their fingers get white
and blue. It may not beideal for people with that condition, but
(21:07):
for most people, you know,without severe underlying health problems. I think
that there definitely is a benefit.Interesting and how frequently in order to get
the benefits? Like your patient,who's who's doing it? I mean,
is it a couple of times aweek or is it something that you have
to do daily? I think thatit can be done on a sporadic basis.
(21:30):
But I think in order to progressand build tolerance, uh, you
know, start slowly, build upgradually with daily sessions lasting for you know,
thirty seconds to a minute under theshower, in a tub, and
then build up from there. Youknow. I think that the longer that
(21:52):
you practice it, the more likelyyour body is going to develop a responsiveness.
Interesting. Well, I want totalk about intelligent medicine. But before
I go there, do you haveany final thoughts or words associated with the
cold therapy that you think our listenersshould know about. No, I think
(22:15):
that you know, we covered mostof the grant. I mean, in
addition, there. I think thereare psychological benefits to it as well,
so you know, if even ifyou don't have way to lose, I
think it might be beneficial in thatrespect, right, which that would kind
of tie back to that vegas nervestimulation where you get mental health benefits there.
(22:38):
Yeah, that's good. Well,I'd like to talk about intelligent medicine
because this is something that you havebeen doing for a lot of time.
And I have to tell you,doctor Hoffman, I look forward to your
newsletter blog every week and it's justa ton of information. So how long
have you been doing intelligent medicine andjust tell us a little bit more about
(23:02):
that and what people will find whenthey go to intelligent medicine. Well this
may date me, but I'm nowcelebrating my thirty fifth year Intelligent Man.
It used to be called Health Talk. It was a nationally syndicated radio program.
It still is under the name IntelligentMedicine. But I used to broadcast
five days a week and on Saturdaysfor six days. And now with the
(23:27):
advent of podcasts, I've made fiveweekly podcasts available along with a live weekend
program. So you can go toDierhoffman dot com and check it out.
And then obviously the newsletter is alsoa source of information. You know,
my mission statement is in addition toseeing patients, I want to leverage my
(23:47):
expertise, not just one on one, but you know, getting the word
out like you do. I thinkit's an important service. Yeah, I
would agree, and you do agreat job of that. So that's a
doctor Hoffman dot com. I'll haveto subscribe to your podcast or do they
have to subscribe to get to yourinformation? Not necessarily. I mean for
those who choose not to subscribe,you can, you know, sort of
(24:10):
painstakingly download each podcast, but youcan subscribe via Apple, podcast, Stitcher,
Spotify, all the major podcasts servicescarry it, and you know,
when you subscribe, it arrives inyour on a regular pass. All right,
yeah, that's perfect. Well,doctor Hoffman, this has been great.
(24:30):
I really appreciate you joining me todayand keep up the great work with
intelligent Medicine. Well, thank youso much, Carolyn and you likewise,
and regards to Lee's al Shirler,Yes, yes, she's doing great.
Okay, Well, thanks again,and that wraps up this episode of Five
(24:51):
to Thrive Live. Once again,I'd like to thank our sponsors n f
H the Professional Supplement Line, bridgingthe gap between nutraceuticals and evidence based medicine.
Amused postbiotic to give your immune systemthat extra boost, cogniz instead of
colin to help enhance memory, focusand attention. And of course doctor Will
here is award winning shelf stable probiotic. All right, everyone, may you
(25:15):
experience joy, laughter and love.It's time to thrive. Everyone, have
a great night. Good good
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!