Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, everyone, This is Chris with Friday Fun with Friends
with Only Friends School, and today we will be interviewing Chris. Chris,
how about you introduce yourself and introduce your research topic.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello, my name is Chris Christian Mutabilira and then my
senior Yeart Only Friends School, and my Grady topic is
and what does it mean to be African?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Thank you, Chris, I'm super excited. Basically, all of our
seniors wrote their senior graduation papers, or they call them
Brady papers, and Chris wrote his paper what does it
Mean to be African. I found his paper very interesting
(00:52):
and asked if he would join me for a podcast
interview and he agreed. So we're going to be kind
of diving into the topic. Various topics here regarding Africa
and what it's like to be African, some history on Africa,
but we're just going to dive right in. Chris, at
(01:12):
the beginning of your paper, you state, more often than not,
we find ourselves in situations where we are called to action,
to step out of our comfort zones and address issues
that could benefit both ourselves and our greater community. Yet
we frequently see these opportunities and remain passive ignoring what
(01:33):
we know is right and instead choosing complacency. This silence
or in action equates to support for those who seek
to harm our communities. I thought that was very, very
powerful and accurate. Why do you think people choose to
remain passive instead of acting and doing what they know
(01:55):
is right?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
In my mind, I find these two major reasons. The
first is feared. Sometimes people aren't born into a situation
and they don't really know the alternatives, because like if
you're going into a system, and if your whole life
you're spent knowing this is the norm, this is how
things are meant to be, you antually spend much time
(02:18):
like questioning what the other alternative might be or otherwise,
what is there more to two to light?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
And what I'm being told? What what have been thought?
And then there's also the other side of things is
people just don't know what they're going through. We just
don't think about about these things, because I'm sure there's
a great ter there's a great percentage of people who
go under who are under like oppressional subjugation, and the
(02:49):
reason why they stay in these in these positions because
they just don't know the positions that they aren't their
understand that they're being subjugated or press.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Absolutely, I fully agree with you.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
A lot of what we see here, I would definitely
say is a generational thing. How they were raised, what
they saw, and that's what they mimic. So and when
it comes to battling certain things or trying to break
people from that mold, that generational mold, you know, how
(03:25):
do we do that? How can we make our community
bigger and stronger and better. We have to work on
those people in those in those generations. So that's that's
a really good starting point here. Also, you state, uh,
driven by the insistence that they conform to the mold
of the Western world, has eroded the sense of what
(03:48):
it means to be African. Overcoming these challenges rooted in
in imperialism is what is needed towards finding a means
by which the people of Africa might be able to
better help overcome the scars from their colonial past. This
is interesting to me because a lot of people forget
(04:12):
that Africa went through this, this era of colonialism. And
to be honest, I don't know much about African history,
and so therefore not not knowing you you have to
know the past to understand current situations. That's really really
(04:34):
important for all history. So here's some questions. So basically,
imperialism is a very interesting topic. We Americans do not
know what it is like to live in a country
that was overthrown by another country. How has that affected you? Again, Uganda,
(04:57):
can you give us a brief history of realism in
your country and the lasting effects that the Yukandan's feel
from it.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So the briefs tree of imperialism in Uganda is, first
it was the missionaries that came in introduced Christianity. So
then there's a kind of like prejudice built up against
like African traditional religion like ATR because now there is
this alternative like before you get African generies to believe
(05:31):
in different goods for different things that be like a
ragin gold, maybe a hunting good that you'd all worship.
But now they introduced I believe in one God. That
Christians came in and also the Muslims. Then sooner there
after the colunists came in representing the states or kingdoms
of the time, and could new power that took over
(05:55):
Uganda was was the British Empire. And the way things
work is that would come in and they went to
tribe by tribe to try and influence them and get
them to side with them. And the tribes that were
more compliant to their demands, they gave weapons and provided
(06:17):
them with the support to take over more land or
more tribes just to like try and possiblly integrate them
into this society that they were trend Quanju a colony and.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Ugan as a colony. What Empai powers would.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Do is they would use this as a way to
exploit minerals from from the land, because Africa's well known
for its minerals and also like extra slave labor and
so have like slaves been taken away from from Africa
being shipped about Europe and the Americans.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
It's very very interesting. I would love to dive into
more African history for sure. What was Uganda like pre colonialism,
Like you were talking about the tribes and the religions
or what were those?
Speaker 4 (07:15):
What what would have it what would if it have
looked like.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
The major My understanding of how things were before colonialism
is that the major divisions would be tribed by a tribe,
because tribes.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Were like that one kind of union.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
They were like the many many states if you think
about it, and no, not everything was you know, peaceful
and all the tribes still vote, but the more respectful
of their boundaries and those that have been their own
communities where they are free.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
To express their own cultures and traditions.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But coming in colonialism, there was this need that the
emperor possible to unite the countries and the unite the
tribes and what the what what happened is this the
only way.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
To do so was to have these diverse tribes, diverse.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
People leave what is the traditions and adopt this European culture,
like you see major majority of the state language. But
while in Yuganda was English. That was that was if
you're if you're in the central region where saman is
(08:29):
a multipler parts, it's supposed to know English in order
to like show this this this sign of like.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Kind of upper class, like.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Your work was defined by whether you knew NW English
because that was like a big telling factor where they
knew this language and not where they knew local language.
And this is supposed to like the long term effects.
And I talked about basing colonism, like today Uganda is
no longer colony. But still there's there's this kind of
(09:06):
prejudice towards their own belief structures and religions. Because of
this this needs to to see Western civilization as as
the standard and people many people grow up. Many schools
in Uganda have like this prejudice towards Vernaturla because the
trend put like.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Encourage students to like to know English.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
They see they see that as as word matters more.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Not preserving these cultures and traditions of.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
The of the of the people, of the people that
that belong to that land. The so focused on living
up to expectations of of Western society.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
That's really sad.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
You know, when we think of Africa, we we think
of you know, the traditional gar the various languages. There's
so many countries in Africa, and yet they're pushing a
Western language and culture.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
That's that's really sad. But I'm thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
So another question I had, so you stay the Pan
African movement has waned. There are there seems to be
less drive towards a unified African community, despite the formation
of inter governmental organizations such as the East African Community,
Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa and the African Union,
(10:41):
significant changes still impede the development of shared community. First off,
for our listeners who may not be familiar, what is
the Pan African movement?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
To me, the bend African movement is.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Is movement towards the nization of all the countries in
Africa or as many as possible, to try and encourage
the idea of an African state and that the all
fifty four countries or as many as posibly be able
to trade with each other travel regulations are in the
strict and be able to promote their during developments. The
(11:21):
way it isn't a has because it's way easier to
develop if we we are all working hand in hand,
especially the more developed the less developed, to try and
bring all ourselves up as a whole unit.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Because with the resources that we have or we have
to do, it's the devotion.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
And the and the trust, the trust and devotion and
sticking bites, that's what we need to developers of whole states.
And it's way easier to do so if we're working
as a group.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Absolutely, and it's strange, it's strange for me to even
envision that with the United States not having you know,
any travel boundaries between our states, you know, and we
are one country, but we are different states, and I
(12:14):
just I find that fascinating. And you know, I certainly
hope that the Pan African movement becomes a thing and
people work toward it, toward unification. That is very important
and in like you said, for development in general.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
But the final movement is yeah, it's just there's a
few challenges. That's still the still cases m hm. And
I discussed this way later in the paper is sometimes
people in order to when people think of uniity, sometimes
may think of having to compromise what you believe in,
(12:56):
or you're having to be the person to compromise your
own beliefs. And that's that's what I feel is a
wrong sense of thinking. Like what the what I get
to in first and other paper is that is a
way to to unify these different diverse communities in a
way that they don't have to compromise on their beliefs.
(13:17):
Because Africa is a really diverse country. And if our
way to unif Africa is a really diverse continents, and
if our way to to unify the continent with multiple
countries is to have like a a common a common
culture or a common language state.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
But that's not going to work.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
You have to find a way to technowledge every single
communities diverse traditions and beliefs and acknowledge them equally and
a community without compromising those beliefs in a way.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
It's like.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You don't have to change not have a study table,
going have to change it yourself. You can come drissed
up in in in whatever traditional way it can bring.
Your values and the orders add up to the entire insights.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Mm hmm, yeah, absolutely, and that's that's how that's how
it should be across the board. You know, everyone should
be able to believe in practice freely. Absolutely. So what
challenges does you Ganda face that continue to halt the
(14:33):
development of a shared community and you mentioned a couple
of those. Just now, what does a shared community look
like to you? How can a shared community in Africa
be achieved?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
On a question of challenges and the faces too to
hold the development of a shared community.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I'd like to separate this into two parts.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
On one one that I'd like to address like what
the government isn't doing as well, and the person'd like
to discuss what the.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
People are doing as well, because this is across the board.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Corruption is the big issue in Africa, especially in Uganda,
and this is an issue that's been there for a
while and people we'll walk into eradicated, but still it's there.
And this idea of this idea of greed and and
want for power and money is a big issue in
(15:36):
the government. And I feel that's that's a major issue.
That's that's supporting this development of the community is greed
and corruption. That we need to look beyond just our
personal benefits and look towards what is we can do
to develop as a whole. And the set of individuals
is it's belief and action because this is the country
(15:59):
for the people, and most times you see people fleeing
the country, people in poor positions, and the entire goal
in life is to work hard enough to leave your Ganda.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
And I feel that's that's that that that's kind of
like artful in.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
A way, because if you grow if you grow up
in this in this society that you don't like the
point that you work your whole life trying to leave it,
it's kind of contradictory because because me in my eyes,
I feel like if I'm born into.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
The society where I see all these issues.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I want to spend my whole life trying to get
to the position that I can make this change to
make the society better. And once people actually realize that
the people they're fighting for aren't exactly themselves, but for
the future, then and we can we can encourage more
(17:01):
action around the people, and then we can encourage more beliefs.
Because once you you consider, you can the u clear
and and cut case that it's a lost cause, then
the first of it, before you can even begin, that's
the first thing to believe in next year to ask,
and that's up.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
To the people.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
Yes, that's very good. I fully agree with you. Another
question I had.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Let's see mhm, Well, well I find my next question, Chris,
what your future look like?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Where are you going to school? What do you want
to do?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I'm going to Saint John's Sin John's College in New Mexico.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Oh, okay? And what will you be studying?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
It's a liberal a liber arts college. Whatever. An interested
in pursuing engineering afterwards?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Okay? And what drew you to engineering?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Well?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
As a kid, I'd spend lots of time watching TV
or playing the toys, to the point that I get
boarded it. So what I'd end up doing is I'll
find things to mess around with those things that are broken,
try and fix them.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
And so in me I have like this this.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
This drive to builds or the drive to fix things
just just built in men. That's als why I feel
really drew me to an engineering engineering.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
And do you have any plans to join any clubs
or do you like like the chess club or do
any sports? Why?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Really like soccer. I've been playing it most of my life.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And next joke, really to really keep out of my
my life, especialtually since it's a way to connect with
back in you guys, way to connect with a bunch
of the guys around because so because really popular back
home and most really a club I'm really looking forward
to joining is like a religious Christian club, you know.
(19:18):
This year I started one with a few friends, like
a fellowship club where we'll meet on Sundays for about
an hour before meeting worship, just to like read a
few verses, share thoughs on them, and just have encouraged
discussions and like this idea too.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
To meet and through the spirit.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
That's wonderful. It's really neat. I remember my own experience
in college, they had so many clubs. And when you
go from having so many friends in such a close
knit community and then you go off to college and
(20:08):
you're literally starting all over with knowing nobody. You know,
the best thing to do is join a club and
get to meet people, and I'm sure you probably won't
have any trouble with that whatsoever. I cannot find my
other notes, but like one question I had, uh huh.
(20:35):
So basically your your paper was so fantastic, really just uh,
it was very insightful, especially for a high school senior.
So I was really really impressed with with everything that
you dove into. And I remember one one thing you said, here,
(20:58):
you know, what what to find.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
An American? What what does it mean to be American?
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And I had to stop and think, and I was like,
what does define my ethnicity? You know, I'm I've never
considered myself to be you know, patriotic or you know, anything,
and I've always been driven to other cultures. But to
(21:27):
for me, in my minds, I America is a melting pot,
you know. I I see all these various ethnicities and
you know, various religions and to be American and seeing
current events, which I know we shouldn't dive into, but
(21:50):
I'm going to watching the Trump administration and all that
they're doing right now. And to answer your question, according
to this current administration, it looks like American is white,
English speaking and that is that's absolutely terrifying. So I
(22:15):
guess my question to you, as an international student in
the United States, planning on continuing your education in this country,
how do you feel about everything that's going on right now?
Speaker 4 (22:30):
How does that affect you?
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Well, absolutely there's a bit of skepticism or like fear.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
But no, not just me, but a bunch of other
Ada students are we're reconsidering going back home and here
is that they have face trouble trying to travel back
into the United States. So it's like all these feelings
of unsafeness going on.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
But still this is a.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
This issue is also my mind, not necessarily this is
a bad thing, but it's also an issue that came
up that that self us think about think about these
things and what it means to be American, or think
about to the extent that.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
One man the power, one man has, the power an
individual might have.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And I think being able to see this and to
think about This is really important as well, because it's
being able to see these kind of situations that were
going to be able to to walk towards making sure
they don't happen again.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Absolutely, it's it's very, very difficult time, and and I
do worry about you all. One thing that I keep
saying in the back of my mind is this is temporary.
You know, everything that's going on, it is reversible, and
(24:00):
hopefully it'll sort itself out, you know. But it also
it does unite the community community. This is affecting everybody,
and I think we're all starting to see what's important.
When you start losing your rights or being denied this
(24:21):
that or the other thing, you start realizing how how
important those rights work that you no longer have.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
So it's it's yeah, it's a unifying experience and a
scary one at the same time. But on that note,
how has how many years have you been here at
Only Friends School?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I've been an only for almost for years, four years,
three and a half because the game in the second
semester of.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
My freshman year, And how has your experience been.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Like?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Because that I'd only have been been able to grow
because I can't say I'm the same person that I
came in as. And personally that's really a good thing
because not only I was able to really to think
about things, for example, this paper, because the paper I've
had more really multiple multiple inspirations to write write this paper.
(25:22):
Because when Roger first asked us what a piece you
want to write about? You write your gradio own past
you you can understand because yes, the twenty page paper
and a specific topic, that's that's kind of difficult, and
I really figure out what it is that that you're
really that you're really into, because there's no way youre
gonna write a good paper, twenty page paper if you
(25:45):
don't really know, if you don't really feel that drive
towards towards the specific dook and my my experiences in
at the classes here, especially Metanoe, they able to.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Critically critically think no, so.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I took Africa perceptions in my sophomore and race bum
privilege in my junior year. I was able to just
like want on these kind of questions and question my
own africanness in the sense because.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Of course there's.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Areas that where we do we do well, but we
have to look at the areas where we can do better,
and I feel like a great motivator of this paper
for me was first of all the Trump administration action,
the lack of action in Uganda or a corruption in Uganda,
and also the inadequacy I feel myself as as being
(26:44):
representing my Africanness, because there are areas that I can
do better as an individual, you know, to display my culture,
my tradition, at least to myself, and that made it
The major thing I do focus on in the paper
is that this idea of Africans isn't like this, this set.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
This set question. That's why I asked what does he
meant to be American? As well?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Because I felt like could also be expanded and if
maybe I had twenty more pages to write about how
they've talked about what it meant to be a human being?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
M h.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Because in the end I drew My answer to what
does he mean to be African? Was was through this
idea of service and can responsibility and looking after one
another and being open to other other clost traditions and
being such a diverse place, you have to be opened
other post traditions and cultures and respect them and also
(27:45):
your African through what you the Africanness is displayed through
what you do for the community that you're in, because
a big part of the community that you belong and
I feel is what you do for that community. This
is this is my answer to question that what isn't
mean to be American because you can't bring like an
ethnic and so it's not me what raschool ethnicity whether
(28:08):
you're born here at least in Africa at least, it's
what you do for the communities you arriving. And I
feel like if you really belong there and you put
that you belong there through the things that you do
for the community.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Why not.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And that actually fits into something else that I did
want to discuss. You state, but is this sense of
belonging enough when it comes to figuring out where we
belong or identify ourselves by there are still outside factors
that further complicate the process, like governmental policies and people's
(28:48):
perceptions of the individuals. And I really feel that kind
of hit home for a second. I feel like we
live our lives by growing figure out figuring out who
we are and where we belong, where we fit in.
(29:09):
And I feel like, you know a majority of the
people they're like sheep. They they they they're followers, you know.
But then there's that small percentage that are leaders, whether
it be the leader of your family, the leader of
your community, your organizations.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
But there's always that sense of belonging. Where do I belong?
How do I belong? And you know, and once you like,
how do you find that?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I still can't find that. No, I'm just jigging, but yeah,
it's like you don't. And I think you have to
put those walls down and you have to become the leader.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
You know what needs to.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Happen in the commune, unity or organization, and you need
to pick up the reins and go with it and
others will follow you.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
And there's your belonging. Someone has to put that out
there for you to follow.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
And especially when it comes to communities, and I tell
a lot of people I really love how Only Friends.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
School is a community.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
It's not just a school. I am not just a
faculty member. I am a part of this community.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Can you say anything on that as only as a
community versus school?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Well, absolutely, the way I'd like to.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
It's relatesful to what you said before about finding where
you belong and being able to put those wolves down,
like a big part of finding where you belong is
is figuring out who you of us because once you
once you figure it to you are and display who
you are, truly who you are, you're more likely to
find other people like you and build your community. You
(31:07):
don't necessarily find one, you can build your own as well.
And at only once you get used the place, you
notice that if it's if in a diverse, really diverse place,
there's not really a specific identity that you can you
can follow like a sheep to be too. It's like
there's people from all over the place and you have
(31:29):
noticeable to just be yourself because it's just in a
mix of different other people. And the idea of being
a community I would like to only as a community.
I would like to to talk on through the lens
of like service or like action, because there's so many
(31:50):
things people do heret only for the community without having
to do them, Like you don't have to do these things,
but you do them because you feel like this connection
towards the community, like whether it's only else. Students will
volunteer to help faculty out with different projects. You find
(32:15):
a friend who needs some help with some some work,
maybe they feel a bit stressed, you will talk to them.
Or maybe there's someone someone cleaning up the cafeteria you want.
You see there walking roone, you go go to give
them a helping hand. Someone's playing basketball in the quarte alone,
you go to just.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Have farn with them.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
And it's just these small small things that people do
where they take aside their egos because I feel like
only only really strips your ego and you realize that
you're not an individual. You're not as much an individual
in all of this, but you're more unit because when
(32:53):
I as a person do good, oh do small things
in order to benefit everyone else, it encourages the next
person to do so, which encourages the next person. What
you do is we posted this environment of positivity and
a big but a big part I'd like to mention
about that very thing is that you don't come to
(33:16):
only and find the community set up. It's every individual
is in charge of making the community a community. It's
true of the things that we all do, so were
able to make only what onely is because if if
one person is missing, you can really sense the difference.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
And that's really important.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
As part of it being a small school, is that
you feel really connected to everyone in the sense that
once you could be missing one fact, Timber could be
missing and you just already know you can sense it.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, it's definitely. Uh, it's very unique. It's very unique,
and I could i to our listeners. I've only been
here still less than a year, and I started in July.
So though I grew up in this town and I
actually used to play with only students when I was
(34:12):
in high school, I never really got to get to
know this community like I have this year. And it's very,
very unique, and I certainly welcome anyone to come out
and take a tour. I'd be happy to give you
a tour of the campus. But on that note, I
(34:33):
think we are going to say goodbye. So thank you again, Chris,
and your paper was fantastic, and thank you so much
for taking the time to sit down with me and
talk to me, and hopefully we'll get to talk again.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Thank you.
Hello, everyone, This is Chris with Friday Fun with Friends
with Only Friends School, and today we will be interviewing Chris. Chris,
how about you introduce yourself and introduce your research topic.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello, my name is Chris Christian Mutabilira and then my
senior Yeart Only Friends School, and my Grady topic is
and what does it mean to be African?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Thank you, Chris, I'm super excited. Basically, all of our
seniors wrote their senior graduation papers, or they call them
Brady papers, and Chris wrote his paper what does it
Mean to be African. I found his paper very interesting
(00:52):
and asked if he would join me for a podcast
interview and he agreed. So we're going to be kind
of diving into the topic. Various topics here regarding Africa
and what it's like to be African, some history on Africa,
but we're just going to dive right in. Chris, at
(01:12):
the beginning of your paper, you state, more often than not,
we find ourselves in situations where we are called to action,
to step out of our comfort zones and address issues
that could benefit both ourselves and our greater community. Yet
we frequently see these opportunities and remain passive ignoring what
(01:33):
we know is right and instead choosing complacency. This silence
or in action equates to support for those who seek
to harm our communities. I thought that was very, very
powerful and accurate. Why do you think people choose to
remain passive instead of acting and doing what they know
(01:55):
is right?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
In my mind, I find these two major reasons. The
first is feared. Sometimes people aren't born into a situation
and they don't really know the alternatives, because like if
you're going into a system, and if your whole life
you're spent knowing this is the norm, this is how
things are meant to be, you antually spend much time
(02:18):
like questioning what the other alternative might be or otherwise,
what is there more to two to light?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
And what I'm being told? What what have been thought?
And then there's also the other side of things is
people just don't know what they're going through. We just
don't think about about these things, because I'm sure there's
a great ter there's a great percentage of people who
go under who are under like oppressional subjugation, and the
(02:49):
reason why they stay in these in these positions because
they just don't know the positions that they aren't their
understand that they're being subjugated or press.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Absolutely, I fully agree with you.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
A lot of what we see here, I would definitely
say is a generational thing. How they were raised, what
they saw, and that's what they mimic. So and when
it comes to battling certain things or trying to break
people from that mold, that generational mold, you know, how
(03:25):
do we do that? How can we make our community
bigger and stronger and better. We have to work on
those people in those in those generations. So that's that's
a really good starting point here. Also, you state, uh,
driven by the insistence that they conform to the mold
of the Western world, has eroded the sense of what
(03:48):
it means to be African. Overcoming these challenges rooted in
in imperialism is what is needed towards finding a means
by which the people of Africa might be able to
better help overcome the scars from their colonial past. This
is interesting to me because a lot of people forget
(04:12):
that Africa went through this, this era of colonialism. And
to be honest, I don't know much about African history,
and so therefore not not knowing you you have to
know the past to understand current situations. That's really really
(04:34):
important for all history. So here's some questions. So basically,
imperialism is a very interesting topic. We Americans do not
know what it is like to live in a country
that was overthrown by another country. How has that affected you? Again, Uganda,
(04:57):
can you give us a brief history of realism in
your country and the lasting effects that the Yukandan's feel
from it.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So the briefs tree of imperialism in Uganda is, first
it was the missionaries that came in introduced Christianity. So
then there's a kind of like prejudice built up against
like African traditional religion like ATR because now there is
this alternative like before you get African generies to believe
(05:31):
in different goods for different things that be like a
ragin gold, maybe a hunting good that you'd all worship.
But now they introduced I believe in one God. That
Christians came in and also the Muslims. Then sooner there
after the colunists came in representing the states or kingdoms
of the time, and could new power that took over
(05:55):
Uganda was was the British Empire. And the way things
work is that would come in and they went to
tribe by tribe to try and influence them and get
them to side with them. And the tribes that were
more compliant to their demands, they gave weapons and provided
(06:17):
them with the support to take over more land or
more tribes just to like try and possiblly integrate them
into this society that they were trend Quanju a colony and.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Ugan as a colony. What Empai powers would.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Do is they would use this as a way to
exploit minerals from from the land, because Africa's well known
for its minerals and also like extra slave labor and
so have like slaves been taken away from from Africa
being shipped about Europe and the Americans.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
It's very very interesting. I would love to dive into
more African history for sure. What was Uganda like pre colonialism,
Like you were talking about the tribes and the religions
or what were those?
Speaker 4 (07:15):
What what would have it what would if it have
looked like.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
The major My understanding of how things were before colonialism
is that the major divisions would be tribed by a tribe,
because tribes.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Were like that one kind of union.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
They were like the many many states if you think
about it, and no, not everything was you know, peaceful
and all the tribes still vote, but the more respectful
of their boundaries and those that have been their own
communities where they are free.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
To express their own cultures and traditions.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But coming in colonialism, there was this need that the
emperor possible to unite the countries and the unite the
tribes and what the what what happened is this the
only way.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
To do so was to have these diverse tribes, diverse.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
People leave what is the traditions and adopt this European culture,
like you see major majority of the state language. But
while in Yuganda was English. That was that was if
you're if you're in the central region where saman is
(08:29):
a multipler parts, it's supposed to know English in order
to like show this this this sign of like.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Kind of upper class, like.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Your work was defined by whether you knew NW English
because that was like a big telling factor where they
knew this language and not where they knew local language.
And this is supposed to like the long term effects.
And I talked about basing colonism, like today Uganda is
no longer colony. But still there's there's this kind of
(09:06):
prejudice towards their own belief structures and religions. Because of
this this needs to to see Western civilization as as
the standard and people many people grow up. Many schools
in Uganda have like this prejudice towards Vernaturla because the
trend put like.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Encourage students to like to know English.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
They see they see that as as word matters more.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Not preserving these cultures and traditions of.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
The of the of the people, of the people that
that belong to that land. The so focused on living
up to expectations of of Western society.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
That's really sad.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
You know, when we think of Africa, we we think
of you know, the traditional gar the various languages. There's
so many countries in Africa, and yet they're pushing a
Western language and culture.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
That's that's really sad. But I'm thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
So another question I had, so you stay the Pan
African movement has waned. There are there seems to be
less drive towards a unified African community, despite the formation
of inter governmental organizations such as the East African Community,
Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa and the African Union,
(10:41):
significant changes still impede the development of shared community. First off,
for our listeners who may not be familiar, what is
the Pan African movement?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
To me, the bend African movement is.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Is movement towards the nization of all the countries in
Africa or as many as possible, to try and encourage
the idea of an African state and that the all
fifty four countries or as many as posibly be able
to trade with each other travel regulations are in the
strict and be able to promote their during developments. The
(11:21):
way it isn't a has because it's way easier to
develop if we we are all working hand in hand,
especially the more developed the less developed, to try and
bring all ourselves up as a whole unit.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Because with the resources that we have or we have
to do, it's the devotion.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
And the and the trust, the trust and devotion and
sticking bites, that's what we need to developers of whole states.
And it's way easier to do so if we're working
as a group.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Absolutely, and it's strange, it's strange for me to even
envision that with the United States not having you know,
any travel boundaries between our states, you know, and we
are one country, but we are different states, and I
(12:14):
just I find that fascinating. And you know, I certainly
hope that the Pan African movement becomes a thing and
people work toward it, toward unification. That is very important
and in like you said, for development in general.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
But the final movement is yeah, it's just there's a
few challenges. That's still the still cases m hm. And
I discussed this way later in the paper is sometimes
people in order to when people think of uniity, sometimes
may think of having to compromise what you believe in,
(12:56):
or you're having to be the person to compromise your
own beliefs. And that's that's what I feel is a
wrong sense of thinking. Like what the what I get
to in first and other paper is that is a
way to to unify these different diverse communities in a
way that they don't have to compromise on their beliefs.
(13:17):
Because Africa is a really diverse country. And if our
way to unif Africa is a really diverse continents, and
if our way to to unify the continent with multiple
countries is to have like a a common a common
culture or a common language state.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
But that's not going to work.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
You have to find a way to technowledge every single
communities diverse traditions and beliefs and acknowledge them equally and
a community without compromising those beliefs in a way.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
It's like.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You don't have to change not have a study table,
going have to change it yourself. You can come drissed
up in in in whatever traditional way it can bring.
Your values and the orders add up to the entire insights.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Mm hmm, yeah, absolutely, and that's that's how that's how
it should be across the board. You know, everyone should
be able to believe in practice freely. Absolutely. So what
challenges does you Ganda face that continue to halt the
(14:33):
development of a shared community and you mentioned a couple
of those. Just now, what does a shared community look
like to you? How can a shared community in Africa
be achieved?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
On a question of challenges and the faces too to
hold the development of a shared community.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I'd like to separate this into two parts.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
On one one that I'd like to address like what
the government isn't doing as well, and the person'd like
to discuss what the.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
People are doing as well, because this is across the board.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Corruption is the big issue in Africa, especially in Uganda,
and this is an issue that's been there for a
while and people we'll walk into eradicated, but still it's there.
And this idea of this idea of greed and and
want for power and money is a big issue in
(15:36):
the government. And I feel that's that's a major issue.
That's that's supporting this development of the community is greed
and corruption. That we need to look beyond just our
personal benefits and look towards what is we can do
to develop as a whole. And the set of individuals
is it's belief and action because this is the country
(15:59):
for the people, and most times you see people fleeing
the country, people in poor positions, and the entire goal
in life is to work hard enough to leave your Ganda.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
And I feel that's that's that that that's kind of
like artful in.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
A way, because if you grow if you grow up
in this in this society that you don't like the
point that you work your whole life trying to leave it,
it's kind of contradictory because because me in my eyes,
I feel like if I'm born into.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
The society where I see all these issues.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I want to spend my whole life trying to get
to the position that I can make this change to
make the society better. And once people actually realize that
the people they're fighting for aren't exactly themselves, but for
the future, then and we can we can encourage more
(17:01):
action around the people, and then we can encourage more beliefs.
Because once you you consider, you can the u clear
and and cut case that it's a lost cause, then
the first of it, before you can even begin, that's
the first thing to believe in next year to ask,
and that's up.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
To the people.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
Yes, that's very good. I fully agree with you. Another
question I had.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Let's see mhm, Well, well I find my next question, Chris,
what your future look like?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Where are you going to school? What do you want
to do?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I'm going to Saint John's Sin John's College in New Mexico.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Oh, okay? And what will you be studying?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
It's a liberal a liber arts college. Whatever. An interested
in pursuing engineering afterwards?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Okay? And what drew you to engineering?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Well?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
As a kid, I'd spend lots of time watching TV
or playing the toys, to the point that I get
boarded it. So what I'd end up doing is I'll
find things to mess around with those things that are broken,
try and fix them.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
And so in me I have like this this.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
This drive to builds or the drive to fix things
just just built in men. That's als why I feel
really drew me to an engineering engineering.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
And do you have any plans to join any clubs
or do you like like the chess club or do
any sports? Why?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Really like soccer. I've been playing it most of my life.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And next joke, really to really keep out of my
my life, especialtually since it's a way to connect with
back in you guys, way to connect with a bunch
of the guys around because so because really popular back
home and most really a club I'm really looking forward
to joining is like a religious Christian club, you know.
(19:18):
This year I started one with a few friends, like
a fellowship club where we'll meet on Sundays for about
an hour before meeting worship, just to like read a
few verses, share thoughs on them, and just have encouraged
discussions and like this idea too.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
To meet and through the spirit.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
That's wonderful. It's really neat. I remember my own experience
in college, they had so many clubs. And when you
go from having so many friends in such a close
knit community and then you go off to college and
(20:08):
you're literally starting all over with knowing nobody. You know,
the best thing to do is join a club and
get to meet people, and I'm sure you probably won't
have any trouble with that whatsoever. I cannot find my
other notes, but like one question I had, uh huh.
(20:35):
So basically your your paper was so fantastic, really just uh,
it was very insightful, especially for a high school senior.
So I was really really impressed with with everything that
you dove into. And I remember one one thing you said, here,
(20:58):
you know, what what to find.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
An American? What what does it mean to be American?
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And I had to stop and think, and I was like,
what does define my ethnicity? You know, I'm I've never
considered myself to be you know, patriotic or you know, anything,
and I've always been driven to other cultures. But to
(21:27):
for me, in my minds, I America is a melting pot,
you know. I I see all these various ethnicities and
you know, various religions and to be American and seeing
current events, which I know we shouldn't dive into, but
(21:50):
I'm going to watching the Trump administration and all that
they're doing right now. And to answer your question, according
to this current administration, it looks like American is white,
English speaking and that is that's absolutely terrifying. So I
(22:15):
guess my question to you, as an international student in
the United States, planning on continuing your education in this country,
how do you feel about everything that's going on right now?
Speaker 4 (22:30):
How does that affect you?
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Well, absolutely there's a bit of skepticism or like fear.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
But no, not just me, but a bunch of other
Ada students are we're reconsidering going back home and here
is that they have face trouble trying to travel back
into the United States. So it's like all these feelings
of unsafeness going on.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
But still this is a.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
This issue is also my mind, not necessarily this is
a bad thing, but it's also an issue that came
up that that self us think about think about these
things and what it means to be American, or think
about to the extent that.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
One man the power, one man has, the power an
individual might have.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And I think being able to see this and to
think about This is really important as well, because it's
being able to see these kind of situations that were
going to be able to to walk towards making sure
they don't happen again.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Absolutely, it's it's very, very difficult time, and and I
do worry about you all. One thing that I keep
saying in the back of my mind is this is temporary.
You know, everything that's going on, it is reversible, and
(24:00):
hopefully it'll sort itself out, you know. But it also
it does unite the community community. This is affecting everybody,
and I think we're all starting to see what's important.
When you start losing your rights or being denied this
(24:21):
that or the other thing, you start realizing how how
important those rights work that you no longer have.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
So it's it's yeah, it's a unifying experience and a
scary one at the same time. But on that note,
how has how many years have you been here at
Only Friends School?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I've been an only for almost for years, four years,
three and a half because the game in the second
semester of.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
My freshman year, And how has your experience been.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Like?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Because that I'd only have been been able to grow
because I can't say I'm the same person that I
came in as. And personally that's really a good thing
because not only I was able to really to think
about things, for example, this paper, because the paper I've
had more really multiple multiple inspirations to write write this paper.
(25:22):
Because when Roger first asked us what a piece you
want to write about? You write your gradio own past
you you can understand because yes, the twenty page paper
and a specific topic, that's that's kind of difficult, and
I really figure out what it is that that you're
really that you're really into, because there's no way youre
gonna write a good paper, twenty page paper if you
(25:45):
don't really know, if you don't really feel that drive
towards towards the specific dook and my my experiences in
at the classes here, especially Metanoe, they able to.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Critically critically think no, so.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I took Africa perceptions in my sophomore and race bum
privilege in my junior year. I was able to just
like want on these kind of questions and question my
own africanness in the sense because.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Of course there's.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Areas that where we do we do well, but we
have to look at the areas where we can do better,
and I feel like a great motivator of this paper
for me was first of all the Trump administration action,
the lack of action in Uganda or a corruption in Uganda,
and also the inadequacy I feel myself as as being
(26:44):
representing my Africanness, because there are areas that I can
do better as an individual, you know, to display my culture,
my tradition, at least to myself, and that made it
The major thing I do focus on in the paper
is that this idea of Africans isn't like this, this set.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
This set question. That's why I asked what does he
meant to be American? As well?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Because I felt like could also be expanded and if
maybe I had twenty more pages to write about how
they've talked about what it meant to be a human being?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
M h.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Because in the end I drew My answer to what
does he mean to be African? Was was through this
idea of service and can responsibility and looking after one
another and being open to other other clost traditions and
being such a diverse place, you have to be opened
other post traditions and cultures and respect them and also
(27:45):
your African through what you the Africanness is displayed through
what you do for the community that you're in, because
a big part of the community that you belong and
I feel is what you do for that community. This
is this is my answer to question that what isn't
mean to be American because you can't bring like an
ethnic and so it's not me what raschool ethnicity whether
(28:08):
you're born here at least in Africa at least, it's
what you do for the communities you arriving. And I
feel like if you really belong there and you put
that you belong there through the things that you do
for the community.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Why not.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And that actually fits into something else that I did
want to discuss. You state, but is this sense of
belonging enough when it comes to figuring out where we
belong or identify ourselves by there are still outside factors
that further complicate the process, like governmental policies and people's
(28:48):
perceptions of the individuals. And I really feel that kind
of hit home for a second. I feel like we
live our lives by growing figure out figuring out who
we are and where we belong, where we fit in.
(29:09):
And I feel like, you know a majority of the
people they're like sheep. They they they they're followers, you know.
But then there's that small percentage that are leaders, whether
it be the leader of your family, the leader of
your community, your organizations.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
But there's always that sense of belonging. Where do I belong?
How do I belong? And you know, and once you like,
how do you find that?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I still can't find that. No, I'm just jigging, but yeah,
it's like you don't. And I think you have to
put those walls down and you have to become the leader.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
You know what needs to.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Happen in the commune, unity or organization, and you need
to pick up the reins and go with it and
others will follow you.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
And there's your belonging. Someone has to put that out
there for you to follow.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
And especially when it comes to communities, and I tell
a lot of people I really love how Only Friends.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
School is a community.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
It's not just a school. I am not just a
faculty member. I am a part of this community.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Can you say anything on that as only as a
community versus school?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Well, absolutely, the way I'd like to.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
It's relatesful to what you said before about finding where
you belong and being able to put those wolves down,
like a big part of finding where you belong is
is figuring out who you of us because once you
once you figure it to you are and display who
you are, truly who you are, you're more likely to
find other people like you and build your community. You
(31:07):
don't necessarily find one, you can build your own as well.
And at only once you get used the place, you
notice that if it's if in a diverse, really diverse place,
there's not really a specific identity that you can you
can follow like a sheep to be too. It's like
there's people from all over the place and you have
(31:29):
noticeable to just be yourself because it's just in a
mix of different other people. And the idea of being
a community I would like to only as a community.
I would like to to talk on through the lens
of like service or like action, because there's so many
(31:50):
things people do heret only for the community without having
to do them, Like you don't have to do these things,
but you do them because you feel like this connection
towards the community, like whether it's only else. Students will
volunteer to help faculty out with different projects. You find
(32:15):
a friend who needs some help with some some work,
maybe they feel a bit stressed, you will talk to them.
Or maybe there's someone someone cleaning up the cafeteria you want.
You see there walking roone, you go go to give
them a helping hand. Someone's playing basketball in the quarte alone,
you go to just.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Have farn with them.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
And it's just these small small things that people do
where they take aside their egos because I feel like
only only really strips your ego and you realize that
you're not an individual. You're not as much an individual
in all of this, but you're more unit because when
(32:53):
I as a person do good, oh do small things
in order to benefit everyone else, it encourages the next
person to do so, which encourages the next person. What
you do is we posted this environment of positivity and
a big but a big part I'd like to mention
about that very thing is that you don't come to
(33:16):
only and find the community set up. It's every individual
is in charge of making the community a community. It's
true of the things that we all do, so were
able to make only what onely is because if if
one person is missing, you can really sense the difference.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
And that's really important.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
As part of it being a small school, is that
you feel really connected to everyone in the sense that
once you could be missing one fact, Timber could be
missing and you just already know you can sense it.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, it's definitely. Uh, it's very unique. It's very unique,
and I could i to our listeners. I've only been
here still less than a year, and I started in July.
So though I grew up in this town and I
actually used to play with only students when I was
(34:12):
in high school, I never really got to get to
know this community like I have this year. And it's very,
very unique, and I certainly welcome anyone to come out
and take a tour. I'd be happy to give you
a tour of the campus. But on that note, I
(34:33):
think we are going to say goodbye. So thank you again, Chris,
and your paper was fantastic, and thank you so much
for taking the time to sit down with me and
talk to me, and hopefully we'll get to talk again.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Thank you.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.