The intersection of Sex and Piety | In Conversation with Intimacy Coach Peggy Greenfield

Video version here: https://youtu.be/AUdw8W71Gv8

*Sensitive content warning. This conversation contains adult themes.*

Peggy Greenfield is a certified relationship and intimacy coach who grew up in the Satmar Hasidic community of Williamsburg, and now serves this population. Peggy is not in the community herself anymore, which gives her a unique vantage point from which to tackle challenges of sex and imtimacy, topics that are difficult and complicated anywhere, but which pose a unique challenge in a community of so many rules restricting sex and the body. Peggy is outside of the community's conventions, but she has a deep appreciation for it. She therefore is able to candidly and empathetically provide support and guidance and here, to talk openly for this interview. I understand that many people feel that this topic should not be discussed publicly, but after much deliberation, I decided that the right course of action is to release this interview. I welcome your thoughts in the comments.

Please check out Peggy on instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/pegreenfeld/

Please subscribe, like, comment and share for more humanizing sensitive conversations on Jewish topics.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome or welcome back to this channel. My
name is Freed Deviseel and in this channel I explore
topics related to Judaism, New York City and my specialty Hasidism,
which is the world that I come from. I do interviews, essays,
food videos and more. Today, for my long form interview series,
I'll be speaking to Peggy Greenfeld, a certified relationship and

(00:21):
intimacy coach who comes from the Hesthetic community in Williamsburg
and now serves as part of her client tele this population.
She also runs a popular social media account where she
talks candidly about issues related to intimacy and sex. Now
a word of disclaimer before we begin. This discussion will
contain adult themes on sex. If you're not comfortable with discussion,

(00:43):
I would suggest you click out now and I'll see
you in another video. Before I start this interview, I
want to interject to add this. After I recorded this conversation,
I spoke to a number of people because I wanted
to make sure that I handle this very sensitive topic
with as much for thought and nuance and care as possible.
After all, my aim is never to exoticize or to

(01:07):
satisfy some voyeuristic impulse, but rather to touch on topics
that are human, that are universal, that we can all
relate to, no matter our backgrounds. And what I heard
from people were a number of things. People had various
different experiences that might not have been reflected in this discussion.
Some people felt that Asidic marriage prep is more adequate

(01:28):
and extensive than is described here. And most of all,
people expressed a desire to see me publish this interview
and to have a discussion around a topic that is
so central and so important to our lives. I want
to remind you that a discussion with an intimacy coach
will be a definition reflect the more problematic things, and

(01:49):
I hope you can keep that in perspective as you
listen to our conversation. Hello Peggy, and thank you so
much for agreeing to do this.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
I have so many questions for you, Peggy, But before
I talk more about the specific things you see in
your practice, I would love to get to know you
a little bit. Do you mind sharing a little bit
about where you come from and where you are today?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Sure? I grew up in Williamsburg, Stackmer, which is one
of the biggest sects in Williamsburg. I grew up there,
I got married there, I moved out to Rockland County,
and I have two beautiful daughters. I got divorced around fifty,

(02:35):
like fourteen years ago. I went on my own path,
and now I'm not part of the community anymore. However,
it's both. I'm not part of it, but I'm very
much part of part of it in a way because
I work with them and I have I love them,
I do, I understand them, I speak their language, speak

(02:58):
Kiddish fluently. I totally get them through it went through.
I get the guys, I get the women. I know
exactly where they come from and what they're going through
because I've been there, done that. However, now I practice
my own you know, I do my own thing, but
there's respect on both sides.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
What's your what's your therapy practice?

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Like?

Speaker 1 (03:21):
How would you describe your training and what you practice.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
I took a two year training in Sematica, which is
a school where you teach about they teach about the
It's you know you heard of sematic therapy. It's it's
about the body, like what you feel, where, how you feel,
where you store stuff, and Sematica is almost like the
erotica of of the of the body, like how you

(03:48):
feel where you feel triggered or shame or or frustration,
and especially in the sexual aspect. So I have a
certificate in that, and then I that relationship coaching. I
have significant in relationship coaching, and.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
I want for the viewer who doesn't know anything about
the aesthetic community, it doesn't know anything about this unique population,
to get a sense of the specific and unique challenges
that people who you see who come from the aesthetic
community come from because they come from this very religious world.
So can you, in your words, describe what their unique
sex sexual learning background is for this specific population.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
So there's no actual sex education in the school systems.
They don't know They usually don't know anything about sex.
I mean the majority doesn't know anything about sex or intimacy.
They do not watch movies and don't see any type
of affection or anything between their parents Either're like, you

(04:50):
can't you don't only see parents hugging or touching each other,
let alone. They not even like touching in a way
where if you want to remove something from one's arm
or something, you wouldn't even see that between between their parents.
No handholding, no type of affection at all.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Would you say there is not even no type of
physical affection?

Speaker 2 (05:15):
True, that's correct.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
What do they learn about sex? What would you say
a lot of people from that say community do learn
about sex. Because ultimately, if you don't have sex education
in school, you still usually learn certain things about sex
because your body is telling you certain things in your
teenage years, and not having a direct education teaches you
things in an inadvertent way, right, So what would you

(05:42):
say you would experience? But people do learn about sex
in their childhood from this world.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Some parents are more open than others, so they will
tell their kids about the periods. Not all parents, not
all mothers tell their daughters about their periods, to be honest.
So those who do would tell their friends, or if
they have a married sibling and they heard things from others,
from the older siblings, so they can they will repeat

(06:12):
it to their friends, to the younger ones in any way.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Before they get married. Though there is sex education. What
would you say you know about that particular kind of
sex education, maybe from your own experience or what you're
hearing from your clients.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
When they get engaged, they sign up. So the grooms
or the husbin is. A groom would sign up to
who'ston lessons, which is there's like a teacher where he
will provide an education which is mostly consist of rules
and regulations what you're supposed to or allowed to do

(06:50):
with your spouse. After the wedding and the color or
the bride would go to a color teacher and where
she would exp lane not in not in great detail
at all, maybe with a little illustration, or she would
draw something or that would represent like a penis, and

(07:11):
she would she would just talk around the bush and
not really say explicit details what they're supposed to do.
A lot of them say, your groom is will will
tell you, he's gonna know, like your husband's going to
show you or tell you. And the husin teachers say
the same thing. They're like your wife will your your
wife will show you will leave you. And sometimes they

(07:33):
bumble around because none of them get like a real,
like a good education about it.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Are you speaking, Peggy from personal experience or are you
hearing this in your practice?

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Both?

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Both? Yeah, Because you know I also went to college
color lessons. My own personal experience was I figured out
facts about the birds and the bees from gossiping with girls.
You know, we we we minded what sex was without
it being entirely clear what sex was, but we understood.
My body definitely understood what sex was, you know, like

(08:09):
I had a kind of a hormonal feeling of of
what sex was. And I was sent for lessons as well,
but I only really know my own experience, you know.
I got these lessons where I was taught very explicitly
about my bride. Teacher tried to be really direct and

(08:32):
try to name everything. I think, would you be able
to talk about what you're hearing in specific, like can
you give examples of what you're hearing people talk about.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
With a groom teacher or the custon teacher? So he
would he would just say that a female looks different.
Will describe the anatomy of a female, that it looks
different than the male. There's no penis there, there's a whole,
and the females have a whole where they can where
they pee, the euro throw opening, and then there's the
vagina actual canal where they're supposed to go in. So

(09:10):
they tell them that they're gonna they're gonna have an erection.
And once they have an erection, they should go in
and the the wife will lead them in there, so
the wife will tell them where where to put it in.
He tells, He tells them that it will hurt because
their hymen is closed, and so he should just do

(09:33):
it really quickly, very rapidly, like just go in quickly,
get it over with and get out. Some some say
that there should be some a little bit of kissing
and a little a hug before they enter. Most don't
talk about elaborate foreplay where you have to make sure

(09:55):
the woman gets wet. Females can orgasm too, there's usual
no talk about that. I know that some groom teachers
or who's some teachers do are more open minded, but
I'm talking about the majority that I hear here in
this practice that they're not like that. They don't talk
about four play or female orgasm at all.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
When people talk to you about how they were educated
in sex, how do they feel it impacted their sex
lives after marriage?

Speaker 2 (10:28):
Very badly, very very very badly. Yeah. First of all,
a lot of the females get pregnant almost like within
six to twelve months after they before they even get
to know each other. The woman gets pregnant, already. So
once you're pregnant, the hormones change anyway, the hormones change

(10:49):
and you feel different and than you're nursing, and then
you know, the postpartum and everything until probably two years
after if she's not pregnant again, then they can start
okay with something's wrong. What's going on here? Our intimate
life is like weird, and you know, like she she's

(11:09):
not even comfortable with her husband usually to be completely
naked and to be open and vulnerable and all that.
She's not comfortable yet because she was taught, she was
taught to be sinius, which is modest, and not uncovered
herself at all all these years, you know, with the

(11:31):
long skirts, the tides, the everything has to be covered.
They don't even tell them why they should be covered.
That it can uh, it's because of the guy's sexual
appetite or anything like that. It's just it's just that
that it's omitst with the vsnasor you know, so they

(11:52):
don't get they don't understand what's going on. They have
to cover. And now when they get married, all of
a sudden everything comes off and they have to uncover
and they have to be with this strange guy they
don't even know with their husbands. So there's a lot
of shame, there's a lot of misunderstanding pain. There's a

(12:16):
lot of pain. It's it's emotional pain. Most of the time.
It's emotional pain. They suffer from vaginousness and stuff like that,
which is a lot of times emotionally because they're not
at ease with their bodies to relax and to you know,
to enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
So who usually decides to come to your practice? What
do you find? The men or the woman?

Speaker 2 (12:39):
I would say it's both, but for different reasons. So
the guys would come because they want more sex and
better sex. The women would come because they want to
they want an emotional connection. And the guys don't understand,
you know, they don't really have a great understanding of
what emotions are, especially for the women. And by the way,
I want to make a disclaimer here when I say

(13:00):
guys or when I say men or women, I mean
mostly for the most part. There are many who do,
but it's for the most part.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, we're talking in generalizations, and in a world where
men and women are raised in completely different cultures, it's
very fair, I think to talk in generalizations because they
have different different they have received different messages, and they
are operating off of a different culture that they've been
raised in. Do you in your practice? It seems from

(13:31):
your social media that you work a lot in people's
sex lives, Like a lot of your work seems to
focus on helping people with their sex lives issues. What
kind of support do you give. Does it involve like assignments,

(13:52):
does it involve specific instructions. I'm trying to get a
sense of what your role is besides for listening and
reflecting and like toxic therapy.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Usually couple do homework. It depends depending on what their
issue is. But if it's a communication issue, then I
have them practice at home certain communication methods that they
should use with each other, and I give them it's
mostly advice driven. I give them a lot of guidance
and advice they should practice at home, and then they
they come back and we talk about it how it went,

(14:25):
and give them ideas how to spice, how to spice
of their life, how to attune, how to you know,
attune to each other's needs? No, no specific exercises. If
if ah, that's what you meant by exercise, Yeah, I
mean I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
I'm wondering if there's like a if it involves a
toucher there, and I don't know, see see what happens?

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Of course, I mean, yeah, that's part of the guidance
and the coaching. So I I explain to them about
four play. I teach them how to how to make
women want to know how to sport, for example, So
I teach the guys how to do that. So that's
kind of with a method.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
What kind of fundamental things do you feel like you
have to teach because people are so so native or
so not knowledgeable.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Well, for the most part, that women can orgasm too,
and it's important for them. And if a woman is wet,
that's not an indication that she's had an orgasm. That's
a big one. That's that comes up a lot, especially
in noluwts. For the women, I tell them, like the guys,
it looks like to them, it looks like like their gut.

(15:46):
Their husbands are sexual, like have a sex addiction just
because they want to have sex twice a week or
something that there's a sex addiction. So I have to
explain it to them that it's.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Not wow, twice a week the women. The women think
is the sex addiction?

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Who or three times a week? Especially especially the way
he asked for it, like in a desperate way, like
he just wants to he just wants to come. We're
just like not in a way like hey, let's connect,
like almost like I'm thirsty. Give give me a drink,
like I'm thirsty.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
It's very sad. This conversation is already making me very
sad because there's like so much miscommunication, misunderstanding. When we
were when we were talking before, you said that you
teach couples to kiss, which really struck me. What does
it What does it mean to teach couples to.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Kiss like French kissing? How to kiss? Yet?

Speaker 1 (16:47):
So I don't know. I don't what does it mean?
You said that you teach couples how to kiss.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
How to kiss, or how to other techniques like how
to give him a blowjob, or how to all kinds
of stuff where anything that's that's a little more than
just missionary, plain, missionary boring sex, anything that's takes them

(17:13):
to the next level.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Are hasidic clients comfortable with this kind of candid conversation.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
No, not always, So I tell them I usually tell
them beforehand that we're going to talk very openly. It
actually calms them down when I when I am the
one that's comfortable, they tend to open up a little more.
If I was shy, then they would be so much
more shy. If I calm them down, I'm like, look,
we're gonna talk very openly. We can use any language

(17:46):
you want. Just use language, Just use words. I don't
like when clients use like doing it, or they try
to say the that place instead of that's a I know,
this is a penis, it's called sex, it's called love making,
it's called being physically intimate. It's not you know. I
like them they use those words. And this is a blowjob,

(18:10):
and this is a going down on a woman, or
kind of lingis that's a little too fancy. I love
to use the proper, proper words. Yeah, for these things.
I think it's it's helpful. So yeah, some some some
clients can blush, but I ask them usually if they

(18:31):
feel a little uncomfortable, but I reassure them that it's fine.
This room is a safe space and we're going to
talk about everything and anything, because if it's not here,
then if we don't talk about it. I can't help you.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
I'm sure this happens a lot that one part of
the couple, one partner is eager to have the discussion,
and the other partner maybe is coming as a reluctant
participant to appease.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
I haven't a lot of the times I have guys
come without their without their wives knowledge. I basically teach
them how to talk to their wives, how to bring
her over here, what to stay to her. And so
she wants to come here, usually touch emotional intimacy so
that she's gonna want to come here because he's been

(19:21):
trust me. Before they come here, they talk to them,
they're like they're unhappy, and the women know that they're unhappy,
so they're like, so he's fed up, and he's like, okay,
I'll get to come alone. And then she's usually the
one that doesn't have that's not satisfied with the emotional
part of it, with the emotional intimacy. So if I

(19:44):
tell her, if I if I tell him to tell
her like, we're gonna talk about emotional intimacy. It's not
really about sex. Sex is an outcome. The emotional intimacy
is where it starts, which can lead to grace sex.
So he says that to her in a way that
would make her be open to the thought of coming
here and talking about it, and vice versa. I have

(20:04):
women too that come alone. I have women too that
come alone. They don't feel satisfied, they don't feel sexually satisfied,
emotionally satisfied. Then they're like, how do I bring my
husband here? How do I bring them over? So we
talk about it, and then finally usually that's what ends
up happening. He comes and we open discussion and we
start talking about these important topics.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
I had like three questions that all flew out of
my mind because you were talking about other things, and
it's like such an intense topic.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
You know.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
One thing that's on my mind actually right now that
is like hovering in the back of my mind. Is
you seeing male clients by yourself as a woman, especially
men who don't fully maybe understand issues with sexual harassment.
What's sexual harassment, what's not sexual harassment? What's the borderline?

(20:51):
Is it a concern for you personally? And how do
you deal with that?

Speaker 2 (20:57):
So I have very strict boundaries, So if somebody's inappropriate
with me, I put them back into their place, and
I remind them that this is a boundary that I'm
not willing to cross. Let's say a silly comment, like
they would comment about my body and they would say, oh,
like something about my breast or whatever, and I'm like,
this is inappropriate, and this crosses the boundary. I want

(21:17):
to redirect you. And usually they're very respectful. They feel bad.
It comes from a lack of education of you know,
they're with a woman here and they talk sexual stuff.
So I kind of remind them and I understand them.
I have empathy for them. I understand them, and I'm like,
this is not appropriate. So they're like, oh, I'm so
sorry and so sorry. I didn't know that, like yeah,
and then we continue with the discussion. I have some

(21:39):
guys who are like, oh my gosh, this turns me
out so much, like can you see And I'm like no,
and I'm not interested. I'm not So we don't have
to discuss that, and let's focus on the topic and
don't worry about it. I don't want to shame them
for having an erection. I just I don't. I just
try not to shame them because I'm very against shame
when it comes as sexuality. So I'm like, no, I

(22:01):
can't see. I don't know what's in your mind, and
who cares. Let's just try to focus on the topic.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
To which degree do you find that shame for this
population I'm sure you have other clients, is more prevalent
than with people who grow up with maybe more comfortable
being undressed and more sex education.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
I would say is like this. Guys go to the mikvah,
which is a ritual math where they get undressed from
I don't know, from the two or three years old.
Their fathers take them and they see, they see they're
more in nudity than women. So there's a little less
shame when it comes to body or body image with

(22:41):
guys than it is with the females. However, I do
have I did notice that guys have a huge it's
more like guilt than shame about their genital area because
they were taught not to touch themselves at all, no masturbation. No,

(23:02):
actually they don't even tell them no masturbation. They're like
that area is holy. They beat around the bush a lot,
like that area is holy. Don't even put your hands
in your pocket because it can They don't even they
don't tell them exactly why, don't even lay on your stomach,
don't put your hands in your pocket, don't look, don't touch,
all these kinds of all these rules which they then

(23:24):
they feel like shame and guilt for finding for having pleasure.
So it's like a mix of shame, pleasure, guilt all
wrapped in won and they don't know how to deal
with that. It's it's weird feelings that they haven't felt
because now when they're married, they're supposed to have sex,
but they feel guilty and weird and awkward, and especially

(23:45):
if they don't have enough sex, there's god, they're going
to masturbate, and they feel a tremendous amount of shame
and guilt when it comes to that.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
But women don't. Women are taught, are not taught anything
about masturbation, but also not indirectly, So would you say
women don't carry that kind of negative feelings baggage around masturbation.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
So women are taught about sineus, about modesty and where
they cannot show their body. I mean, I'm not even
talking about the genitals or anything else. I'm talking about
like elbows or collar bones or the knees. Everything has
to be covered completely, no skin except for the hands
and the face. So there's a tremendous amount of shame,

(24:31):
especially the first few weeks after when you're supposed to
take all the clothes off. There's no hole in the
sheet myth. So usually the you know, the bride or
the the wife, the newly married wife would remove all
her you know, remove her nightgown, and that's very, very,

(24:52):
very shameful for her because she's never been nude in
front of in front of other people. However, when they
go to the mikva, the ritual bath, they are completely
nude in front of the mikla lady, the lady that
leads them down to the water to the how do
you call that the actual mikva, the actual body of water.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
It's a little pool where the woman has to go
to immerse herself after her period.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yes, and that's the first time they're completely nude in
front of another female, usually an older female. But still
there's a lot of shame and a lot of women
they really don't like to go to the mikva because
of that. For many other reasons, but this is one
big reason that they feel weird and awkward that another

(25:40):
woman is going to see them. However, they're very respectful.
I found when I went that the ladies usually they
have a towel open and they cover their their face
with it to pay respect for the lady that's going
to death. Not all of them do it. Not all
of them do it, but with my experience, they did try,

(26:02):
so it's a little less awkward, you know.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
I think there is a kind of a fantasy in
the popular world that the Micfhi lady. There's some kind
of sexual energy with the micfhladies, and people like seem
to me to like the story of the Micfi lady
who's inappropriate, And I've heard a lot of these stories
in my experience. Also, they are these old women who

(26:26):
have seen all sorts of female bodies and they're just
trying to get it over with. But I remember also
as being a shy young woman, being extremely uncomfortable with
the micvah experience that there was a woman there when
you're completely undressed. It's a very shocking thing. I Actually,
something I wonder about a lot is there must be

(26:48):
some women who come out of this modesty experience not
having these these shame feelings about their bodies, like do
you find that there was a spectrum how people are
affected by the same kind of messaging.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yes, some women find it incredibly exciting that they can
finally unveil, that they could finally just robe, they can
finally be naked, and it's sort of like a rebellious
streak that they have, like I wasn't I wasn't allowed
to until now watch what I can do. And those
are the women that they they have a pretty healthy
attitude towards their sexuality. They would masturbate openly, openly. I mean,

(27:27):
you know with their husbands, they would not they would
wear lingerie or something sexy in the bedroom. They would
they wouldn't have that. They they aren't as prude as
the other ones. And there's so many and there's a
lot in between. There's a lot, like you know, it
takes some time and then within a year they start
getting comfortable. Some have really amazing marriages, so that husband

(27:51):
helps helps her get out of her shell a little bit.
So there's that too. And there's the other side where
the women are more staple than the men, so the
women help the guys get out of their shelf. There's
a little bit of everything. However, the most the majority
is the shame for both of them, especially for the females.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, around the body, shame around the body.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
In the city community, these very young people are married
off and they have these messages about sexual inhibition, about shame,
about what not to touch and where not to look,
and suddenly they're thrust into going from from no sexual
contact to having sex on the wedding night with essentially
a stranger. What happens to these two people who have

(28:40):
that shared experience, What do you find it does to
the relationship?

Speaker 2 (28:46):
So to be honest, the majority don't even talk about it.
They can have sex a few times a month, like
I don't know, like twice a week, But once that
is over, once he goes back into his bed, they
don't talk about it. That discussion is over. They don't
talk about it. They don't say there's no post sex

(29:06):
talk like how was it for you? This is how
it was for me? And this is what I strongly
encourage couples to do. They have to talk about their
sex love with each other to see how can we improve?
What's this enjoyable to you? Is there anything I can
do more? Is there anything I should do less? Do
you want to explore something together. The minority, though, do

(29:26):
talk about it, and they do want to open up that,
they do want to talk about it more and help
themselves to have more satisfying sex lives. But the majority,
they don't talk about sex. And I see couples who
are thirty years married or more, they still don't really

(29:47):
talk about sex. It's not a discussion at all. You
do it and that's it. So not a lot of bonding,
not a lot.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Of bond because I'm wondering if they're like shared youthful,
like almost trauma in the wedding night. How do people
talk to you about the wedding night, because the wedding
night I think is traumatic for what I've heard of
a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
So I only hear the sad stories. I don't usually
hear the like, oh my god, we have them, we
had an amazing night, like they probably wouldn't come see me. Really,
like those who are like great from the start, they
don't normally come unless they want to like enhance this
because they've been stagnant and bored in the bedroom. But
I do hear very very sad stories when it comes

(30:38):
to that. So the couple gets married and he's not
really attracted her at all. Like once they get married,
he he's not very into her for several different reasons,
either because he is he's gay, and uh, we just
get married because it's part of the system. And he's

(31:00):
not attracted to females at all, and he it's hard
for him to have an erection, so you can't break
the hymen without an erection, you can't do that, so
he would have to, Like it would take them a
very very long time for this to happen. So that's
one experience or where she has a tremendous amount of

(31:23):
pain and she's not interested and she feels like there's
a stranger in her bedroom because they haven't Usually they
don't really talk throughout the engagement, so there's no interaction.
There's nothing like for them to be warmed up. So
what happens is is they would they would get home
after the wedding, which is probably like late at night,
two or three am or later. They would both go

(31:46):
into the shower separately. Usually she would wait in the
bed for him to get in. You know, they would
recite something like a blessing or something beforehand, and she
would go into bed and the color teacher. The teacher
whoever taught her about sexuality would tell would tell her

(32:09):
to lay down and put a pillow under her bottom
and get and be ready for him to come in
and just to receive him, you know, something like that.
And he would he would go in with his he
would remove his pajamas, go in and just either give

(32:33):
her a little kiss or not and just try to
enter her. Oh, they would use loop like some sort
of loop like, yeah, a lubricant. It's not always a success,
so they would have to try many times. I've I've
had couples here who never consummated the marriage even a

(32:55):
year or more after. They never ever consummated the marriage.
They never ever were successful. They were struggling either with
direction or shame or pain.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
On the other side we've talked of, we see here
a lot of the of course negative sides of the
inhibition and the modesty. There is another side to that,
which is an innocence. You know, in the secular world,
there is an overexposure to sex, There is an introduction
to pornography at a very young age. Can you speak

(33:29):
to do you find that people have a certain degree
of innocence because they're so sheltered. Would you say that's.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Correct, there's for sure an innocence, especially with women. Also,
we have to understand a lot of the guys have
seen pornographic images or videos even before they get married.
The women, a lot of women haven't. They have no idea,
and the husband wants to do like stuff that he's

(34:01):
so important with her, and she's like, what do you
want from me? Like even touch her breast and she's like, Okay,
this feels weird and uncomfortable. Why are you Why are
you touching my Like why why are you even touching
me there? Or trying to finger her or you know,
like explore the vagina. And she's like, this is strange,

(34:23):
this is weird, this is like awkward. I'm not even
going with oral sex. That's like a whole new topic
to discussed.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Because there is a religious issue with oral sex.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
I usually don't hear this in my practice. I usually
don't hear hear about the religious not so much. It's
more of it's disgusting, like it's something that's why would
I go there? Why would I do it? Like it's
it's gross something like that, more than the religion.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
That men feel like it's gross both of both genders both.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
I find that men a little less gross than women.
Men are tend to be more into oral sex giving
and women don't really like, you know, giving.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
What's your advice on pornography? When people come to you
and they say they watch pornography, what's your opinion on.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
It watching separately? I don't think it's a good idea.
I don't think it's a good idea for guys to
watch porn because it gives them wrong expectations. They and
there's no there's no education on how females like to
have sex. It's gear towards so porn is mostly gear

(35:44):
towards guides. There's even a genre and poor important where
it's a female porn where it's like more romantic and
slower and it's not so action based with in regular porn.
It's like it's very graphic, it's very goal oriented. They
get to the point, like immediately. There's not a lot
of foreplay in porn. So guys love that because they

(36:07):
like to get to the point and they just need to,
you know, the jerk off to it, and it does
its job. But women, there are many women who do
enjoy and watch porn. They are, But I don't think
it's a great idea for guys, especially if they want
to learn how to treat a woman and you know,
how to have great sex with their own wife, and

(36:28):
they take it from porn, I think it's pretty bad. However,
if the couple wants to enhance their own sex life
and both of them like to watch porn together, then
it can be exciting for them, and I would encourage it,
you know, occasionally, if it can enhance their own life
and they can learn stuff from their different positions and
different ideas.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Is it hard to communicate to people that porn is
bad if they come from a world where they think
that to open yourself up sexually is maybe to throw
away all the taboos.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Actually, no, I found it pretty easy for me to
convey that message to the guys, and they most of
them agree. I have a lot of clients who are
addicted to porn and they hate it. They really don't
like it. They feel horrible, They feel horrible that they
can't get out of it.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, you know, on your social media you have like
a whole category and Instagram of sex positions, and you
ask me what's your favorite sex position? And people are
like me and hobby or me and my wife like
to do it like this. We like to do you know,
when you're overweight and you're like oversized bodies, or when

(37:37):
you're pregnant. What works. Like people seem to be so
comfortable sharing about their sex lives. Is that what you
find on your Instagram or is it just a selective number?

Speaker 2 (37:53):
No, No, it's all anonymous. I can't see who writes them,
so that they have a space there on my social
media account that they can be anonymous, so they can
share everything and anything, even more when they're with me
in person, so they can share all their fantasies, fetishes, kings,
whatever's going on or what they want to happen too.

(38:13):
So it's a very comfortable space and a safe space
for them to put it out there. And I've heard back.
I get a tremendous amount of feedback from couples from
people on my social media private. They messaged me in
private that it's helped them a lot. They look through
not all of them participate in writing, but they read
it and they're like, wow, this is an interesting idea.

(38:34):
I would love to try this and it helps them,
So it's a great feeling to know that this space
is you know, you can talk about everything and anything.
It's almost like you're flying somebody else's bedroom where you
never had that opportunity until now where you can actually
see what's going on.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
There was there any clue that you can see looking
back in your childhood that you were going to be
comfortable talking about sex, coming from such a world where
it's so taboo to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
So I always had a rebellious streak to me. I
always oh, and I was super curious about everything and anything.
I was curious about my body, I was curious about
the world. I was curious about everything. So I had
to explore everything like this feels interesting, this feels strange,
and you know, I try different types of things. And
I was reading. So we didn't have any English books

(39:24):
at home. I had to read the encyclopedia and the dictionary.
I read the dictionary from cover to cover because there
was nothing else to read in English. So and I
would see the word sex or ash. They don't describe it.
They were like gender and male female, and then I

(39:45):
would go and dig further and further. But yeah, I
was I was super It's the curiosity and the little
rebellious streak that made me for who I am today,
and I feel like shame there's shame within it. Then
you can't you can't really have a relaxed, enjoyable sexual

(40:06):
experience with shame.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
How do you guide people to let go of their shame?

Speaker 2 (40:12):
First of all, to talk about it, talk about it.
It's okay, nothing happens if you talk about it, meaning
only within the couple, like not with I'm not I'm
not advocating for them to talk to their friends or
to their relatives, but talk with each other about it.
What what do you feel, what is it that, what
do you need? And what do you feel? And try

(40:34):
to explore different things, trying to let go, trying to
be in your body, I'm not in your head, and
just let go of stigma, let go. It's it's hard
for me to explain it to you here, but when
I have it during the session, like we go into
a lot of details and we discuss it bit by bit.
So it depends on where the shame it comes from,

(40:56):
and and I try to navigate them in a way
where it's comfortable enough for them to just let go,
and also that it's normal that it's not weird, and
a lot of other couples do it too, for example,
like if he wants to go down on her, just
giving an example, and she's like, it's so embarrassed, like
it's I feel so awkward and weird, Like why would

(41:18):
I want another face in there? Like I. So I
tell her that so many couples it's a very normal
part of She's like, really, other people do it too.
I thought it's only my husband who wants this. I
thought he's crazy. They're like, no, this is kind of
not really like a lot of couples do this, and
they're like they feel so they they feel more calm

(41:41):
knowing that they're not the only ones and their husband
isn't crazy for doing it, for wanting to do it.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Can you talk more about what kind of shame this
was a very interesting example. Can you talk about how
it might apply to men.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
So I have couples where the women are freakier than
their husbands and they want they're more open and comfortable,
and he's like shy and not comfortable with his sexuality.
So I would talk to him about it. And also

(42:17):
a lot of them think that women they should be
quieter about what they want and me like their desires,
they shouldn't be so outspoken. It's like to them sometimes
they feel like they're being a slot And I really
really dislike that word. I don't I really don't like

(42:38):
the word slot or whore or whatever that is, like,
especially when it comes to marriage, like be the most
ludy you can, and it's there's nothing wrong with it.
There's nothing you know, there's nothing shameful or bad about it.
It's in a way, it's healthy to be completely comfortable
and be yourself. So he'd have a problem with it

(43:01):
for many different reasons because growing up like it's you
don't really talk about it. And also females are supposed
to be the modest ones. They're not supposed to talk
about what leases them in the bedroom, or they want
to have orgasms, they want to squirt it like, and
the guys are like, they're not used to women talk
like this, So it's kind of intimidating to the men.

(43:26):
It almost feels emasculating to them that they are more
modest than their wives. Now, I try to talk to
them to open up a little bit and to go
step by step and try to look at their wives
as super healthy and eventually, eventually they would have amazing,
passionate sex because she is all the way the other

(43:48):
side and can He doesn't have to meet her needs
all at once, but very gradually, and he'll see that
he will enjoy it because his wife would be so
much happier.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
To which degree do you find people are come to
you seeking a happy marriage? Like, how much do they
prioritize they want their marriage to be good?

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Most of them? And I have guys who who open
up their like they were cheating a lot, but ultimately
at the end of the day, they wish to not
be able to cheat and to be with their wife.
They would do anything to just have a normal, great
sex life with their wife much rather than going to
find other females. So most of them want to have

(44:31):
a great, amazing marriage and sex life.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
To what degree is there an issue with rabbinic authority needed?
Do people say, Well, you can say there is not
a problem with shame, but you're not a rabbi.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah, I have it a lot, so especially from women,
they call me up if I have a backing or
a hexcher. A hextra is like a stamp, like a
coature stamp for my work that I spoke to a rabbi,
and the rabbi is like, yeah, you are qualified to
teach our community about sex. So usually I tell them no,

(45:08):
I have no rabbinical background or stamp or anything like that.
But honestly, I don't need to because I don't talk
about rule the halakas with the rules. I don't talk
about my hushkafa or my way of life. I don't
tell them, hey, do what I do or do what
I use like, I don't talk about that. I try

(45:29):
to analyze who they what are their rules, what are
their boundaries? I talk to them first what their boundaries are,
and I ask them, do you guys watch movies or no?
If they say no, We're going to redirect and find
a different route of how to enhance their life with
you know, certain things. You see what I'm saying, Like,

(45:50):
but the majority don't really have an issue with that.
It's just the nuance who are inquiring about my service,
like do you have you know, they're nervous. They they
don't know what to expect. They're coming to me knowing
that I'm not part of the community anymore. They're like,
what is she gonna tell us? To do like all
these non Jewish things, or I don't know what's what's

(46:13):
on their mind, like you know, like because every way
of life, they need a stamp, a culture stamp, their phones,
their everything. So they're going to talk about this most private,
private parts of their life with someone that's not in
the community. That's like super taboo. But most of them
very religious, very conservative. They don't even have a smartphone,

(46:34):
and they and they come here with their wives. But
we respect the I respect their boundaries tremendously, and so
I care to them in a way where where I
know that it's okay for them because I know the community,
so I know the nuances. I know what to say
and what not to say.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
You know, to some yeah, you read where they are
in the religious spectrum, what they're what their places, what
their boundaries are, and you respond to that. You're not
there to challenge them on what they believe. You're only
there to work within that those parameters.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Absolutely absolutely, not only do I have to read, I
can ask them. I can ask them straight up do
you want to go there or not? And you know
they they're honest with me, say no, we're not going there.
So sure, I Okay, so we have to reroute and
find a different solution.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
You're not looking to impose any set of values. You're
just trying to make their marriage come to a better
and more intimate place. And I think they once they
believe that and see that the whole hasher thing probably
is not central.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
I also have guys who they would love to have
a session with me, but they don't want to show
their faces. So I've had sessions anonymously. They don't have
to tell me their names. I don't ask for a
name or for a location. They can call me from
anywhere in the world, either on the phone or I've

(48:04):
had I've had sessions text text sessions because they don't
even want to want me to hear their voices. So
we had sessions through text where we can open up
so he can open up to me or sheep can
open up to me completely and I respond via text.
So we have this this session back and forth in

(48:25):
text just to stay anonymous, which I find pretty cool
because they can get help without exposing their face, their
voice or anything, and they pay with UH. There's a
there's a there's an app cash app where it's like anonymous.
It's anonymous pay. I just hope that I'm not coaching

(48:46):
my siblings or people that I really know through those
anonymous Oh.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
That's so funny. You walk the street, so you're like,
is this person someone I coach?

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah, I would never know. I would never know, you
would never know.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
It reminds me of the days that I was, my
early days online, when I was still an Asidic woman
and I had an anonymous blog, and everywhere I went,
I was like, do I know? Is this person the
person I talked to with a pseudonym?

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yeah, I would like to. You know, I feel like
we've heard so many stories of people's struggles and i'd
like to. I guess move to more hope.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
There are hopeless couples who come here and they're like,
their betterroom life is so boring, it's so it's draining.
They're not interested in each other anymore. They've been married
for fifteen years. Class. So I try to teach them
and tell them different things to how to enhance their
stuff and be like, oh wow, I've never heard of this,

(49:48):
and I never heard of that, and I love it.
It feels so good to give them this education and
teach them a couple of things that they don't know.
And then the feedback that I hear that they tried
this and they tried that and it really helped them.
I get a tremendous amount of feedback. They message me
with amazing feedback of this has helped them. That has
helped them. They never they learned to communicate. They learn

(50:10):
to talk about sex. After that has sex, so they
can learn, Oh SOHIT like this and I like that,
and you know, they discuss it, and my main focus
is talk about it. Just talk about it. And this
is I always respond. Communication. Communication, communication, This is the
number one step. And couples do start talking about it.
They start using sex toys, they start using certain things

(50:32):
that would enhance their life, their their bedroom life, their
intimate life, and especially for guys to open up their
their minds about emotional intimacy and what it means to
the woman and that when they cater to them, the
women open up sexually to them, and that's so surprising
for them. It's very surprising to see the connection between
emotional and physical intimacy, like one leads to the other.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
You know, we talked a lot about young couples, but
in the AULTO or task hush community. Usually marriages last
very long time. What do you find the couples that
have been married for a very long time? How can
you speak to that experience and what challenges you see?

Speaker 2 (51:12):
So well, if the women go through menopause or perimenopause,
I highly encourage them to take the HRT, the hormone
replacement therapy, extra yeah, extra oil or whatever it is
they should incorporate in their lives and it totally totally
helps for many to do that. Also, guys suffer from

(51:35):
erectal dysfunction. There's a lot of premature jopolation, a rectal
dysfunction and all that. So I encourage them to you know,
healthy diet and that's always going to be the thing,
like exercise and diet because the erections and that type
of stuff is about is about the blood pressure. So
encourage running and walking on to the gym and you know,

(51:57):
trying your best to be healthy and happy about it
to end. Most most importantly, orgasm is not the view
all end all when it comes to sex. Try to
embrace cuddling, try to embrace being intimate, being affectionate, without
having orgasm as the main focus, because it isn't it
shouldn't be. And that's a big one, like how do

(52:19):
I get my wife to orgasm? You don't. It's it's
like it's a must for the guys, but it's it
shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. Really.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
You know, something I wonder about is, you know, these
couples get married and arranged marriages. I find that the
number of people that your odds are likely to be
attracted to is pretty slim relative to the overall population.
So it feels like a lottery when you arrange marriages
in terms of are you going to be attracted to
this person?

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Definitely? However, attraction changes with age. You can be attracted
to someone at when you're nineteen, and you're going to
be attracted to someone completely different when you're twenty five
or thirty, right like and forty and on and on.
Attraction changes. However, if you're really not attracted from the
start at all, like that person completely push you off

(53:13):
and you feel disgusted by them, there's very little to do,
to be honest, there's very very little to do to
create a spark. If there hasn't been a spark at all,
it's hard to create a spark. But if there's been
a spark, but it doesn't shine, it's just like dead.
Then you can re ignite it. But if it never
has been ignited before, it's almost impossible to do that.

(53:37):
It's almost like conversion therapy. If somebody is like in
the gay community, right, if somebody is like attracted to men, like, oh,
you know, they go to they encourage them to go
to conversion therapy so they can be attracted to females.
It doesn't really work like that.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
That's what I was also thinking about in terms of attraction.
What happens if you're gay, if you have same sex attraction,
you're in this marriage with opposite sex.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
I know many couples who are like that. I know
many couples who the women are completely gay. They're married,
they have kids, miserable marriages because they are gay. A
lot of the times they the husbands know there's not
much that can be done. They can some of them
meet up with other females to have that, you know,
extra kick on the side. Not all do, not all do.

(54:25):
It's very hard for them to be open and to
go out in the world and to find other women.
And the shame of telling hey, I'm a lesbian, like
I'm not attracted to men and like with men too,
like and they can't get it from their wife.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
What happens when a couple comes to see you and
one of them is gay and they're like, I really
really want this marriage to work.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
I've had this before, I've had this, and so what
I say It depends how high the libido is, right, Like,
some people have like a really high they can't, they
just have to. Some don't really have a high libido
to begin with, so they're okay, you know, they're kind
of okay. So I try to see what they have
in common and to bond with whatever they do have
in common. And intimacy doesn't always have to involve the genitals.

(55:07):
Intimacy can can just be hard to heart, intellectual intimacy,
spiritual intimacy, there can be they can connect intimately through
other means besides for their genitals. And I tried to
explain it to them to be kind and nice and
loving to each other even if they aren't connected in
that way. Try to be understanding, try to be kind,

(55:28):
try to be loving, especially if there are kids involved.
If there aren't any kids involved, I encourage them to
not stay I mean, it's not for me to tell
them what to do. However, I just I ask them,
why are you staying?

Speaker 1 (55:42):
I have a question here. When we spoke before the interview,
you said that some of the most pious couples have
the most kinky sex lives, And after we talked in
the pre production meeting, I was wondering how, you know, like,
why do they even come to you if they are
so conservative and they have such great sex.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
First of all, they feel like, you know, they need
to share. They need to share about your excitement. They
need to share to someone else, like just to hear
like you know, this is this, we do this and this.
Most of the time it's I have this this kin
can fetish that my wife or husband doesn't know, and
I want to tell someone. It's been building up inside.
I need to tell someone.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Do you see, like the couples come to you and
they're like, they're good, they're having a blast, they're shacking
it up like in the best ways possible. But for
some reason they show up to you.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
Does that happen, Yeah, because there's always Skuy's the limit,
the Skuy's the lower. Yeah, we're great, but you know
what we want to take it to the next level.
What can we do? So usually ask them tell me
how it's now and let me which level are you
at so I could take you to the next one.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
What do you think the future is for this world?
Like are you finding anything changing?

Speaker 2 (56:54):
I would highly highly recommend for couples to take birth
control of the first year for sure, like get to
know each other first, get to because get to know her,
get to know him, get to know each other, bond
before you get her pregnant. Because once once she's pregnant
and starts nursing and gets pregnant again and there's a
baby in the house. You have to build a real

(57:15):
strong foundation when comes to intimacy and then you can
always look back to that part if stuff go wrong
or it goes dull, you can look back at that
amazing first year that you have. But if you get
her pregnant immediately, what kind of what's there to look
back at. There's nothing, There's no spark or amazing times
to look back at much, right, So I would highly

(57:36):
recommend that. Also, I would want them to almost like
it's mandatory for them to go to classes to to
to learn to have the lessons or how to how
to conculmate a marriage, to have sex. It should be
mandatory to come after the wedding, both of them to
come for a couple of months for sessions like, Okay,

(57:57):
how is it going, what are you you know, what,
what are the issues? What's going on? Because so many
times that's where it just there's a bad couple of
first months and it goes down from there. Nobody seeks
out help. They're embarrassed to talk about it. There's shame,
and they don't know who and where to reach out to.

(58:17):
They're embarrassed to go call the rabbi. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
No, Actually, on that note, I recently read a couple
of memoirs and in a couple of places stories from
the Hassitic community where the couple gets married in arranged
marriage and there are people meddling in their intimate life,
like the rabbi, and who knows what do you find
that's coming?

Speaker 2 (58:37):
I didn't, not necessarily unless there's an issue and they
they're talking to them about it, then maybe there's a
nosy rabbi that's like what are you what are you
guys doing? Or but I haven't. It didn't come up
a lot here, No to what degree.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Does the fact that women usually don't take birth control
interfere with their sex lives. The fact that happen sex
means you could get pregnant, I'm sure as a source
of anxiety in some cases, right.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yes, But also women who take hormonal birth control if
their libido drops tremendously, So I encourage those who are
on hormonal to get off of it and go on.
Iud that like the coppariety or different hormonal methods where
it doesn't interfear with their libido because most of the time, again,

(59:29):
the majority of men have a healthy, healthy I mean,
a higher libido than the women. If they take birth control,
then it knocks it down to half or more, so
the difference is even bigger.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
And the issue with regards to losing libido in a
medication is also pretty common for people on antidepressants. Right
are people aware of the consequences.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Well, if they if I would ask them, and if
they stay there, I usually ask them if they have
if they suffer from low libido, it would ask them
if they are on any medications, and if they are,
you know, some SSRIs are one of the biggest side
effects are like for.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Some people, I think I guess it becomes a real exchange.
Some people feel like SSRIs keep them functioning.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Yeah, and some some psychiatrists prescribe SSRIs for those with
very very high sex drives two bring it down to normal, Yeah,
to bring it down a little bit, because they're like
abnormally hypersexual and they just can't get enough and they

(01:00:38):
masturbate multiple times a day. They have said they want
they have a need as sex multiple times a day constantly.
So so, you know, they go for help and they
tell them to take I'm not sure if it's a
good idea or not. I'm not a doctor, I'm not
a psychiatrist. I'm not you know. Like, so I'm not
sure you know the what it does to them if

(01:00:59):
they do take that?

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Is there anything else you want to speak to before
we wrap up?

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
So so many guys have they like, I'm attracted to
my neighbor, I'm attracted to my to my employ employee,
I'm attracted to my boss. What do I do? How
do I do? How do I deal with it? And
I'm like, first of all, attraction is not a sin.
It's okay to be attracted to someone. It's okay, it's fine.
People are attracted to other people. It's a feeling. It's

(01:01:26):
like it's an acknowledgement that that person is hot. But
that is okay. You It's fine to find someone attractive.
It's okay to see that there are other beautiful people
in the world. Right. It's what you do with it.
It's how you act, like do you do you do?
You aggle at them? Like how do you have? What
do you do about it? And that's what matters, not

(01:01:48):
the attraction. The attraction isn't the issue. It's what do
you do about it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
I think being able to talk to you without judgment,
I you know, I think that's in a world there's
so so much judgment. It's a relief to hear from
you that you you set that aside and you listen
to people.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Oh of course they see it on my re twice
on Instagram, because I don't judge each to their own completely.
The fact that they can open up and share this
with me, I find it. I find it great. I
find that it's I'm happy that these people feel comfortable
with me to be able to open up in that
way that I feel safe.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
You're like a giant hug in words, there's something very
sweet about that. Yeah, well, Peggy, thank you so much
for sharing so much and for this conversation. I am
going to link your Instagram. Anything else I should link
in the video.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
No, my Instagram is fine, My Instagram is okay, Instagram
is fine.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
You have everything on your Instagram. Great, I'll link your
Instagram in the video description. And thank you, Peggy, and
thank you to the viewers and the listeners on the podcast, and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Thanks for having me. I