FPF 06-21-25 The One About The Candyman

Episode Transcript

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The following program contains course language and adult themes. Listener
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girl talk scary stories of the Morday.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Try. All right, welcome back to another Saturday night with
front Porch for insics. I am bumpstock Ken and you
have tuned in with us tonight where we are going
to where we where the porch lot stays on and
the cases never grow cold. I'm here with that. You're

(03:38):
a hostess with the mostess beside me this week. If
you want to introduce yourself, yep, I.

Speaker 6 (03:44):
Am bumpstock Barbie and is basically cookies and crime tonight
because I'm decorating cookies as we do this, So my
husband is going to.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Take a lead tonight yep. So I will be kind
of running the ship this time, so hopefully it'll be
smoother than last week. Rick pulled me out of the
gutter until you come along and cleaned it up.

Speaker 6 (04:05):
When our internet finally came back.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah. So tonight's episode, the name of it is the
one about the candy Man. We're going all in on
the darkest of monsters. I think this one, to me
is the thing that true nightmares are made of.

Speaker 6 (04:25):
This week is it's a rough case.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Dean Arnold Coral c o r l l uh. It's
pronounced it's like Rick pronounced uh, Carl's name in The
Walking Dead, you know Coral. So if y'all watch that show,
Dean Arnold Coral, aka the candy Man, this case isn't
just disturbing, which it absolutely is, but it's border is unbelievable. Really,

(04:53):
it's borderline. It's something you've see in a movie. Okay,
like I could see this being I want and say
Stephen King level. This is beyond Stephen King level disturbing
to me. And it's real life, we say.

Speaker 6 (05:06):
I think that's what makes it more disturbing is because
it's real. Oh yeah, like I mean, Stephen King even
said it best. It's like the monsters absolutely live among us.
Oh yeah, movie monsters or anything. They're real people.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah. And Dean Coral didn't look like a monster either.
He was quiet, he was polite, he was well dressed.
The people of Houston thought a lot, a lot of
good about him. They thought he was a good guy.

Speaker 6 (05:33):
You know, and we have seen this with other serial
killers team that they were very unassuming men.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Right, yeah, very unassuming from all accounts. He had a
normal childhood. Now, he did have a domineering father.

Speaker 6 (05:54):
Just classic, I guess you could say.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
And him and his mother, well, his mother divorced and
remarried the father several times, and thus being moved from
Indiana back to Texas the suburb of Houston, actually back
to Indiana many times as a child.

Speaker 6 (06:16):
So very much he didn't have any kind of stable.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, I mean very much. I guess a lot of
tour moral I guess even have the roots. Yeah, he
couldn't really find himself because every time he'd settled, he'd
be right back up and road somewhere else. Now, there's
no signs of any kind of abuse as far as
like physical or anything like that.

Speaker 6 (06:40):
I say, when you say domineering father, you probably think
more corporal punishment type stuff. Again, we don't really have
a whole lot to.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Go on childhood exactly. The only information on his childhood
we actually get comes from the mother, who is shall
we say, biased, up to her up all the way
even after everything comes to life on up to her deathbed,

(07:14):
she denied that he had anything to do with these crimes.
She denied completely. But no, he didn't do any of this.
He was a good boy, just misunderstood and all that.

Speaker 6 (07:25):
As a mother. I can understand that too, Like you
don't want to believe that your child is capable of stuff,
Like we're going to be discussing.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Right, So for his childhood, the information we get is
from her. Oh, he was a sweet boy. Everybody loved
him all that. That's why the reports of his childhood
overwhelmingly are because it's all one sided. Now what we
do know. Dean was born December twenty fourth, nineteen thirty nine,

(07:58):
in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Dean was the older of two
sons born to Arnold and Mary Coral. His parents, like
I said, divorced and remarried several times, creating a very
unstable domestic environment. Again back and forth. Every time they divorced,

(08:19):
the mom kept the boys and left. Okay, so it's
not like standard.

Speaker 6 (08:23):
For that time, like the mother would get custody. It
was rare back then for the father to retain custody
of any children.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, and he back and forth of the father was
in and out of the life you know, of his
life of the boys. Actually, but now his childhood traits.
Teachers and neighbors described Dean as well mannered, quiet boy.

(08:50):
He was not known for disruptive or any kind of
aggressive behavior. He just kind of kept his head down,
kind of the quiet loner, exactly right, the quiet loner. Now,
I remember his mother says he was next to an angel.

Speaker 6 (09:03):
So of course, because again that's what we moms do.
We don't want to think that like our children are
capable of being monsters.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
He was described as I guess not really. He was
described as like lonely and isolated, but not in a
way that was disturbing, like he didn't.

Speaker 6 (09:24):
Think like with the tumultuous relationship that his mother and
father had and him bouncing back and forth between Indiana
and Texas constantly, he never got to make like actual
solid friendships growing up.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
That's said, he didn't have any hardly any friends at all,
and so he was often seen playing by hisself even
when other kids were around him, and he would always
kind of still be withdrawn and pull back. He was
I won't. I guess he's kind of isolating himself in
the way, but he's always kind of stand office not abuse,

(10:01):
if not mean nothing, just he didn't seek out any
kind of friendships.

Speaker 6 (10:04):
Stuff like that. Every time I hear it, I think
of like my own childhood, Like I had a lot
of friends and everything growing up, But I also did
prefer to be by myself and alone. So there were
a lot of times, like teachers would come check on
me because I was playing by myself, and I was
perfectly fine. So like, we hear this about killers and everything,
and I'm doing that meme where you know that little

(10:25):
sock puppet or whatever cuts its eyes around, like.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
And that was me too. I mean, I've played by
I was a loner. I played with myself.

Speaker 6 (10:34):
Too, So well, that's probably very different.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
The the social isolation may have played a role in
his inability to form healthy peer relationships later in life,
right because as we'll find out, he didn't have as
an adult, he didn't have any friends under his brother.

Speaker 6 (10:55):
Very well marry Norman Bates vibe.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
He didn't even hang out with anyone his aid at
that time. We'll see, we'll see how that plays out
in a minute. You mentioned Norman Bates. Dean was especially
close to his mother Mary and was fiercely loyal to her,
sometimes at the expense of all his other relationships. He was.

Speaker 6 (11:16):
He was a mama's boy to the extremeherly.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
To the to the worst kind.

Speaker 6 (11:21):
Of extreme, but very unhealthy like it's good to be
close to your mama, because I'm close to mine, Daniels
close to his, But there there comes a time when
there is a line where it's too much.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Now, part of the reason his mother, like I said,
he was born the second of the older of two sons.
The mother really pampered him more because as a child,
as a child, Dean was diagnosed with rheumatic heart condition
and was excused from any kind of strenuous physical activity.

Speaker 6 (12:00):
So like he didn't play sports with the other boys
or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
So he didn't have that he didn't have that kind.

Speaker 6 (12:06):
Of camaraderie exactly.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
It was that probably would lead to why he was
so comfortable just spending time byself. He couldn't enjoorge sports
or everything like the other kids were.

Speaker 6 (12:17):
He couldn't relate to them in that way either. So
that was just yet another thing that distanced him from
normal people, yep, because normal people don't do the things
that we're going to be talking about.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah. Now, even and this was him as young childhoods
you know, as he got older, these straits in a
lot of ways that even deepened, Yakay, And that's.

Speaker 6 (12:42):
That's true, Like any kind of criminal psychology. When these
pathologies come out, it's always in the later teen years
in the early twenties.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
So through his adolescens and teenage years and all this,
he was still seen as a quiet, very respectful, and
genuinely confined kid. He didn't cause any trouble. There was
no criminal activity or violent behavior noted at all, I say.

Speaker 6 (13:04):
Which is rare because usually we do see these kind
of kids doing these like petty crimes and stuff like
that leading up to more severe crimes.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Now I'm wondering if that's why the public saw I
don't know. Like I said, his mother was very, very
protective and you know, biased, So I wonder if she
kept some of that quiet, you know, kind of down home,
if he did have those tendis.

Speaker 6 (13:28):
Well, that's also that kind of day and age where
problems in the home were considering nobody else's business. Everybody
just kind of looked the other way. It's not our business,
it's not our place. Yeah, and they overlook a lot.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah. Now throughout these things, throughout his life, it's just
growing up, we see this happens a lot too. Well.
There's a little bit of a theme this month being
Pride Month. Yeah, and this falls into that case again.
And though not until later on in his life after

(14:05):
become an adult, that these kind of information come out.
But Dean began struggling with his sexual identity during his
teen years.

Speaker 6 (14:15):
Which is pretty standard for when that kind of stuff
starts to manifest and come out. And because you got
to keep my puberty, they're starting to realize that they
are sexually attracted to other people and they figure out
which people that they are attracted to.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah, some reports to Jesse was uncomfortable and very secretive
about his emerging homosexual desires, which may have been at
odds with the conservative environment that he lived in.

Speaker 6 (14:43):
Time and age, it was still very very taboo.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Back now, so like exactly what you're saying, he was
closeted because again this was.

Speaker 6 (14:50):
That was probably a self preservation thing.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah. Uh, you know, again he was born and what
year do we say, is born thirty nine, So this
would be in the very very stigmatized yep. The area
he lived in back and forth, even in Indiana would

(15:14):
be very conservative neighborhoods.

Speaker 6 (15:16):
I mean, you got to keep in mind, like Texas
is still very conservative and everything. But Texas back then
with a young gay man. I mean it was. It
was a very very very taboo thing.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
So when all this was happening, the last time that
him and his mother are sorry, the mother and his
father got a divorce. She wound up with some income.

Speaker 6 (15:44):
She got a little bit of money or she got
a job.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
Both.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
She got a little bit of money and was able
to buy a recipe that.

Speaker 6 (15:53):
She found, the cake recipe.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
It was a pecan pie. Yeah, and they started if you,
if you took the money. Uh, she bought the recipe.
She got out alone again for that day. And age
was a big step.

Speaker 6 (16:12):
Especially for a woman then, like without a husband's signature
or anything, it had been very difficult for a woman
to get a banglong yep.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
So she took that money started a business, a candy business,
and it was named the Pecan Prince. Now after that recipe. Yeah,
and the recipe was for that, say it was for pie,
you said, yeah, yeah, I'm thinking now maybe it's like
the prailings, the little bite sized pecan.

Speaker 6 (16:41):
Yeah, the little bite sized candy.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah. I wrote it down, but it was multiple different
pecan recipes. But I think it was that little candy,
the praline thing that really put it in motion about
the candy store. So Dean worked at that candy store
all throughout high school and all that.

Speaker 6 (17:02):
So I did I know, I mentioned to you earlier
when we were talking about this, like very parallel because
Dahmer also like kind of discovered his sexuality as a
teenage boy and everything, and he ended up working at
a candy factory as well. We talked to Amy about
that because it was I think she said her husband

(17:23):
at the time would ride the bus with him.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
The bus, yeah, because the factory that Dahmer worked at
was on the same route. Yep. But this this guy
he worked Dean, he worked like the counter and cells
and all that.

Speaker 6 (17:39):
Right, Actually, in the manufacturing.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Part of Dahmer was a fudge packer and this guy
bave what he worked in the candy store. That's what
he did. I'm pretty sure, I swear to God, I
think I read that somewhere. But uh now here's the kicker.
We know his victims were aged anywhere from age thirteen

(18:03):
to twenty. His murder victims. Okay, this and he has
some accomplices we'll get into shortly. But they often said
that he liked young guys.

Speaker 6 (18:18):
Yeah, he liked him young.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
This candy store that his mother opened up was right
across from a school, middle school.

Speaker 6 (18:26):
I said, I mean, we're getting into like cliche territory
here of like the creepy dude with the candy, like, hay,
kids come here.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
I'm telling you, it sounds like somebody makes this up.
It sounds like it's a script from a movie, right,
or a King book or something like that.

Speaker 6 (18:42):
You know, I mean, it's very cliche here, but I
mean it is just it's what happened.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
If they I said, if you was to tell this story,
you would think that it's a screenplay for a movie
or something. But it's it's really what happened. It's the truth.

Speaker 6 (18:57):
Yeah. Sometimes it's truth is what's scary.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Definitely scarier to me because it's actually happened. So he
was starting to make friends again air quotes with these
kids in school by carrying candy to school in his
pockets from the store, and he was handing them out
and everything.

Speaker 6 (19:22):
He and this was a very like poverty stricken area,
very poor.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Oh yeah, part of town, and he was able to
he realized by taking this candy, he could get these
kids to do basically anything he wanted him that he
wanted them to do just by giving them candy, because,
like you said, it was an extremely poor, impoverished part
of town.

Speaker 6 (19:45):
And what's worse is these kids knew his reputation, but
they were basically saying, hey, just just go along with
it and everything because he's given us stuff.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah. Now, again, this is his teenage years. His victims
at this point was his classmates and younger, right, but
they knew that he had some little tendencies to be
touchy feely, some quirks, but they like, hey, man, don't
ruin this for all of us, because he's giving us
all this free stuff.

Speaker 6 (20:12):
I say, don't be the one who ruins it for
everybody else because we're getting all this like we wouldn't
normally never be able to afford these treats and everything,
and he's given them to us for free. Just kind
of let him do ities.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
Just to do.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
And up to this point, there's no confirmed any kind
of diddling going on, but it's also heavily implied, implied
that he was able to get his jollies in certain ways.

Speaker 6 (20:39):
And usually stuff like that, we see it. It always
it always starts out fairly small and almost innocent way,
like experimentation, but then that fantasy gets darker and darker,
and eventually the fantasy is no longer enough, so they
start acting on it.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, at this point, he's just he's actually just trying
to get them to do things, not necessarily sexual, just
seeing what he could. He realizing, oh, I can get
him to jump off this rock or right, or throw
this rock to this windows whatever for this gain. He's
realizing he can can manipulate people by giving them things exactly.

Speaker 6 (21:14):
And it is very He's learning very predatory behavior very
early on in life.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yep. And I say, he's finding out that he can
buy people and get them to do what he wants
them to do.

Speaker 6 (21:30):
Lich, I mean, is still kind of human nature. You
see that happening even today. And I mean it doesn't
have to do necessary politics or anything else. Just everybody's
got a price basically for whatever you want them to do.
Everybody's got a price.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Now he winds up getting drafted.

Speaker 6 (21:56):
Yeah, we're into what mid to late seventies here.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
No, we're still in the sixties, so he.

Speaker 6 (22:03):
Would be more Vietnam area.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
He winds up getting drafted, goes to the army, and
while he's in the Army, he really starts coming out
of the closet, if you will. There's all kinds of
reports of him being very flirtatious. There's sexual harassment.

Speaker 6 (22:22):
Reports, the aggressive which also again very reminiscent of Jeffrey Darmer,
because there were very early reports of sexual assault by
Jeffrey Dahmer's army mates.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
And so they at this point, he's not doing well
in the army. He's caused a lot, he's ruffled a
lot of feathers, if you will, okay, to say the least.
And his mother, of course, they're writing back and forth him.

Speaker 6 (22:53):
His mom, right, because they're very close.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Where his mother writes back to the army saying, you know,
she's a single mother, lies about the other boy, omits
him and says that he needs to come home because
he needs help with her business and it's failing and
without him she's gonna be destitute. Well, the army saw

(23:20):
this as that, Okay, we're gonna give him a free
ride home, get him out of our hair, because that
was back then. You know, if you're the last living
for for instance, if he was the last living boy
in the family, they will ship you back home. Yeah, Well,
his mother was alone and was about to lose everything.
So they gave him a chance to go back home,

(23:42):
discharged him, and send him home to take care of
his mom. Right, and I'm from the reports, I'm seeing
they were happy to get rid of him.

Speaker 6 (23:51):
Can you blame him at this point? Like I mean,
he's doing a lot of sketchy stuff in the army
at this point.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
So he comes back home and like I said, he
is it's fresh out of the army, so still in
his early twenties, and he finds that his mother's business
is doing great, to the point that they open a
whole another branch outside of Houston, and that he is
in charge of it.

Speaker 6 (24:20):
So he is now going to be running the family business.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
In the Houston front. Yep. So he started working at
this the candy store, like I said, as a teenager.
He gets put in charge of the one in Houston,
that's his store. Yeah, and this is where he with
no mother watching over his shoulder, he really begins to

(24:46):
groom and manipulate some some kids. Right. He continued on
with given the well to call it the candy to
all these people. He was giving away free gifts to
all these kids. Because again this store was opened up

(25:06):
in an improverished area of Houston, mainly because they could
afford the storefront. I mean that helped out there. Excuse me.
And this is while he was Houston. This is where
he took on the moniker, the candy man, the people there.
He actually caught him that in a good way. He's

(25:29):
the candyman because this is.

Speaker 6 (25:32):
Way before like the movie.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, he was known to give out candy to the
kids on the street in the neighborhood. He would like
carry them a little bag of it.

Speaker 6 (25:41):
He was like the generous benefit and it was like.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Take come to my store and all this kind of stuff.
So he would do that a lot. Well, his taste again,
he developed his taste. He was able to freely experiment
and get a good taste of what he wanted while
he was in the army. Right, so when he comes
back out, now he's on his own, his mother's not

(26:06):
breathing down his neck, he's got access to debate that
he wants to.

Speaker 6 (26:12):
Use and the demographic he wants to use it with.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
He can get hold of all these kids real easy.
Well he thankfully apparently thirteen I'm twelve and under was
just not his flavor.

Speaker 6 (26:31):
Okay, so he liked like.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
His youngest victim is thirteen, and there's quite a few
of them. Yeah, so there's no reports of twelve and
under as far as being a murder victim. Now, I
don't know why all that's happened.

Speaker 6 (26:47):
I say, I mean, it kind of leaves a lot
to speculation. There's gonna be a lot of speculation, at
least from me during this episode.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
So what happens is Coral real Okay, So you get
a drug dealer in the area, right, right, they're going
to find people who fit the demographic to work for them,
to sell and push their drugs into schools of that
kind of stuff.

Speaker 6 (27:10):
And we see them gang bangers and all that kind
of stuff. We see them using younger kids miners because
it'll be expunged from their record once they turn eighteen.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah. I don't know if that was his reasoning that's
why he was using them, other than they had access
order schools where he couldn't go, right, So he started
getting these teenagers to distribute his candy to their fastmates
and get the word out. Right. So Coral was seen

(27:42):
hanging around these kids all throughout town, and because people
knew what he was doing. They really didn't think much
of it, because again, he's he's the good guy. He's
a nice fellow.

Speaker 6 (27:54):
Say, he run the business in the town, and it
was probably good for the town. I mean he probably
void people from the town and gave them jobs.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, well, speaking of he was offered. He was openly
paying them money to do this. To make a little legit.
What he was also doing was giving them booze and
weed and their favorite huff and paint.

Speaker 6 (28:16):
He was grooming them.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, essentially his go to seemed to be huffing paint
in the brown paper bag. Spray paint. Oh well, I'm
not gonna explain how you do that. You got you
gotta keep.

Speaker 6 (28:27):
Them mine though, Like for these impoverished areas, a lot
of these people probably couldn't afford the hard drugs and everything,
and maybe he couldn't even afford liquors sometimes. So yeah,
you got spray paint or paint cans or glue or
some aerosol glue hanging around, like, yeah, that's how you're
going to get.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Your rocks offt Yeah, he's specifically liked the the spray paint,
huff and paint. So uh, but he would give them.
He would feed them with cash, he would give them
booze weed, the paint. Uh. He let them crash at
his house where he had a pool table and all
the fancy things of the time.

Speaker 6 (29:05):
That these were not used to, Like they had nothing
like this in their own homes.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
No, absolutely not. This guy, like this was legit to them.

Speaker 6 (29:13):
This was like the rich people house.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't go as far as saying rich,
but in that area he was well, well.

Speaker 6 (29:19):
Yeah exactly, I mean that to them was the rich,
the rich guy.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah exactly. So this is where he meets David Brooks,
a teen who became his first known accomplice. Brooks idolized him.
Coral started giving him gifts, the alcohol, the drugs. He

(29:43):
even got him a car when he turns sixteen. About
the car that he got Corvette.

Speaker 6 (29:48):
Yeah, yeah, we're not talking like just like a little
beater he could run around the town. And he got
him a freaking Corvette.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah. And now remember this was sixty nine seventy, nineteen seventy. Okay,
Brooks was giving him two hundred dollars for each boy,
I mean sorry, Coral was giving Brooks two hundred dollars
for each boy he could bring over. Ye.

Speaker 6 (30:11):
Now I say he groomed this boy into being an
accomplice and yeah, helping him find his victims essentially.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah, this wasn't I mean, of course this was abuse, okay,
but what it was an organized predation.

Speaker 6 (30:30):
Okay, predation.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, Dean wasn't just act that's it on impulse. Here
he was building. He was grooming this kid to keep
his absolutely.

Speaker 6 (30:45):
And we really do see this dynamic in any kind
of killers partners. You have the dominant and you have
the suit, which I mean sounds like sexual stuff, but
it's not. I mean, it's because a figure he is
won in control and submits to him, even if he

(31:05):
may think that like there's something going on and everything,
he's slying him with all the things that he needs,
keeping him depend on him. So he's to do this
in order to get the alcohol, to get the car
or anything.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
To keep this needs.

Speaker 6 (31:21):
Something he's never known. Oh no, I mean he thought
he hadn't made it.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
And this kid Brooks, he didn't come from the greatest
families either. I mean he had some again, very impoverished,
They didn't have much to.

Speaker 6 (31:37):
He knew exactly. This is how predators work. They hone
in on these the weaknesses of their target, of their praise.
And I mean even this accomplice is a victim of
this man.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, for sure. So again, two hundred dollars for each boy.
Brooks didn't really they.

Speaker 6 (32:01):
Specificype.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
I guess, well, no, he didn't really, He didn't really
want to know. He just would bring him over, get high,
and then the next day that got to be gone. Right, Okay,
so he didn't he didn't know, he didn't care. So
now again I mentioned he had two accomplices very shortly

(32:24):
after he got Brooks going elmer, Wayne Henley, who was
only fifteen, again a charming boy at school, very very
poor and desperate, need of anything, even clothing. Yeah, he
saw the lifestyle that Brooks was able to get. Coral

(32:46):
brought him in and was explaining the deal, giving him
everything he could need or want, you know, making him
feel loved, make me feel important, appreciated, the whole nine yard.

Speaker 6 (32:57):
He honed in on that weakness, that insect security.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
But Wayne Henley, he was actually asking questions. Now, I
don't know how good this is, but at least it's
not murder to Wayne's mind. Again fifteen year old kid.

Speaker 6 (33:18):
Are you kind of kind of justified to rationalize this
to himself?

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yeah, Coral not only gave him all this cash and
all this stuff, but when Henley was asking a questions
about these boys and while they were disappearing from around
town and everything.

Speaker 6 (33:36):
Yeah, because it wasn't just that like he would go
to bed and they just wouldn't be there. They actually disappeared.
They were missing persons and he was being asked.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
About this, so he would Coral told him. He says,
this is what I'm doing. I'm selling these boys to
rich clients, and then those clients are taking these boys
away to a better life. So basically he was his

(34:04):
defense was I'm just a sex trafficker.

Speaker 6 (34:07):
Yeah, not much of a defense there, but that's how
he rationalized it to himself. Yeah, Henley, he wasn't killing anybody.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah. We'll get into Henley and Brooks a little more
detailed in a few minutes. But Henley did later tell
the police that he believed it at first about the
sex trafficker, right, and then as the truth came out,
he wasn't delivering boys to clients. He was delivering to

(34:36):
be murdered. He was already in too deep to get
away from him at this point. So the truth does
mention to come out. And shortly after that truth comes
out to Henley, that's when things ratchet up on his side.
We'll get to that. But the victims will go to
victims real quick. Not all of them will do those
in the I say, we'll.

Speaker 6 (34:58):
Name everybody like we always so, or everybody that we
can name.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, but we'll just kind of do an overview real
quick of some of the boys or some of the victims.
Karl's victims were were mostly white boys ages thirteen to eighteen,
although they were some nineteen and twenty year olds. His
first victim, Jeffrey Conan, eighteen years old, vanished on his

(35:26):
way home from class, and it's later found out through
autopsies and things that Conan was his only victim that
was never tortured. It was simply strangled to death and
then you know kill.

Speaker 6 (35:42):
That to me seems like it could have been the
first murder victim too.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yes, he was. Jeffrey Conan is considered his first victim.

Speaker 6 (35:50):
I say, the first victim that we know of, but
I would say that based on the other victims. This
was his on a test run he wanted to see
if he had it in him to kill another human being.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Now, since Dean was not around to give any kind
of witness on this, we have to go off of
what Brooks and Henley tell us and then what the
autopsies tell us. Now, the date of death on all
these victims are the dates they were they went missing,
when they went reported missing.

Speaker 6 (36:25):
I say, because, and as Daniel will talk about later, like,
there's a reason that we don't really have exact time
of death for any of them.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah, but like I said, so they have to go
by the date they went missing. Presumably he killed them
pretty quick. They was not like a delayed long several days.

Speaker 6 (36:46):
I must say, We're probably talking a matter of hours.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah. So Jeffrey Cone in eighteen vanished on his way
home from class. He is considered the first victim, and
he was strangled, and that no signs of tor tu
that was I have a point.

Speaker 6 (37:03):
That don't want to make real quick as it just
occurred to me, since we don't actually have a time
of death, by the time that they were reported missing,
a lot of these boys were probably already dead.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Oh yeah, I'm sure.

Speaker 6 (37:14):
I mean we're talking like between the abduction and the
death probably just a matter of hours, and by the
time that anybody reported them missing, they were probably already gone.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Brooks and Henley report that most of the time it
was overnight extended overnight, but not like days.

Speaker 6 (37:32):
We're talking maybe like what twelve hours.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Overnight the next day they'd be gone a lot of cases,
but they wouldn't see them after the next day. This
was September twenty fifth, nineteen seventy is when he was
reported missing. So we're going to set the clock at
nineteen seventy septem September twenty fifth, nineteen seventy through August

(37:56):
the eighth, nineteen seventy three. That's the that's the timeframe
we're looking at. Danny Yates and James Glass were best
friends and they were murdered together. There's several versions or
let's see here one, two, three, four, five, six instances

(38:22):
where the missing date it's the same and they were
friends or ken someone's actually broke.

Speaker 6 (38:30):
That's actually that's so heartbreaking to me, Like.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
I mean, so six times he adducted to them at
the same time with his accomplices Dean and Henley.

Speaker 6 (38:43):
And these are these are young boys, these are healthy
boys and everything. So I think that these uh, these
accomplices and everything probably had a lot more.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
To do with it the way he would do it.
And this is them talking being and Henley is they
would probably they would go to parties and he would
get them there, get them drinking, get them relaxed and comfortable,
and then when they would huff the paint that makes
you black out, and he just got it. So it
don't matter what good of shape they was.

Speaker 6 (39:11):
In, they were in no condition to fight back.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah, when they woke up, it was too late. He'd
already got them where he wanted them. And we'll get
to that in a second. Two.

Speaker 6 (39:19):
It's so incredibly sad to me thinking of these boys
that are either friends or their brothers or they're related somehow,
and they're taken together, right because you know, at some
point they came to during whatever was going on and
whatever was being done to them, and they couldn't help

(39:39):
each other, but you know they wanted to because they're friends,
because they're brothers, And that is so incredibly heartbreaking to me.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Oh yeah, because you know, some at least at some
point they were here and what was going on to
the others. You know what I mean, Yeah, which was
even worse in my earing.

Speaker 6 (39:59):
Or in the same room and whatever it was. I mean,
it's just awful. It's even worse. I guess that some
of these boys were together when when they died and
they couldn't help each other.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, And I said, we're just speculating all that because
the bit I'm sorry Brooks and Henley, they didn't go
into too much detail, or at least not what I read.
I'm sure they did go into detail on some of
the things that were happening, but in most cases they
say that they were passed out as well because they

(40:38):
was particular partaking in the parties, so they don't know exactly.

Speaker 6 (40:42):
I mean, that's how he was getting them to help
him get these other boys, was by applying them with
drugs and alcohol and everything too.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
And we saw this with Gaysey's victims. These kids were
from broken homes, extremely improvished families, trying to find.

Speaker 6 (41:02):
A job, like trying to.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Find Yeah, so when they were becoming missing and coming
up whenever they were asked, oh, well, I heard that
he was going to California, or they ran away, or
they wanted to get out of this town. Was the
most popular.

Speaker 6 (41:17):
Yeah, that was that day and age too, because you
did have a lot of kids running away from home
and going to California for whatever reasons. We did see
a lot of that, so I mean that is worth noting.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Oh yeah. Now, one of the things that one of
the ways that Quarrel was able to get away with
this for at least three years, if not longer, was
that he had various rental homes and a lot of
other properties in the area. Lots some rental properties. One
of them is a storage building which was I want

(41:54):
to say it was thirteen foot wide and thirty five
foot long, pretty decent sized door storage building with a
dirt floor, right. And then he had some rental homes
for the most part to say vacant. You know. Again,
he had the money. He didn't need income coming, but
he needed some kill rooms. And that's what he's that's

(42:15):
what he did. He was known to live and move
between his rental homes and different properties three to five
times a year. He was moving around. So basically his childhood.

Speaker 6 (42:28):
He never stayed in one place.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Well they expect when the neighbors started questioning things, he
would just move and he'd got to one of his other.

Speaker 6 (42:36):
Homes for a while where nobody else was suspicious, and.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
He'd let it die down before he'd go back to
that location. Now, in one of the homes, were in
a couple of the homes, they found these boards. They
were three foot wide by seven foot tall, so basically
a piece ofply would cut down, okay, And in the
corners they had whole three quarter inch holes drilled in them,

(43:02):
and they had all these stains on them, these dark
colored stains.

Speaker 6 (43:06):
And you're talking the four corners of the of.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
The rectangle boarder. And they would find nylon ropes and
stuff like that inside these homes too. The boats there
was a boat yard storage facility, that's what it was.
That's where they would drive dock boats.

Speaker 6 (43:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
So the room was big enough, like I said, like
thirteen foot wide and thirty five foot long, was plenty
big enough to fit to fit a boat in. But
of course he didn't have a boat. It was empty.
And inside that room it's where the police actually find
a in use board, his torture board. Yep, he would,

(43:49):
the investigators, of matter of fact, you said it. The
investigators called this the torture board. Victims were strip naked.
They were bounded by the ankles and the in the arms,
so kind of like the spread eagle position, assaulted and
tortured sometimes for hours, and they say sometimes for days.

(44:12):
Perhaps they don't know on that, they're just speculating. He
used nylon rope, surgical tape, handcuffs and anything why anything
else he could use to hold him, you know, Tom down.
He recorded all of these murders in a notebook and

(44:33):
he would keep souvenirs.

Speaker 6 (44:35):
And that's pretty typical, yep, because that's his way of
reliving it in between kills.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Now again we found in his other homes that same
board of plastic sheeting, just by the miles of it.
In the boat room. The plastic was actually spread out
on the floor and around the walls. Think, yeah, okay, Morgan.

Speaker 6 (45:03):
The original dexter his kill room and everything.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
So it was similar to that. So this guy was
absolutely organized. He was not.

Speaker 6 (45:11):
Yeah, and we have covered organized killers versus disorganized. I
think we've at least touched on it in a few episodes.
Organized and disorganized, it's exactly how it sounds, say like
Ted Bundy would be an organized killer versus Richard Chase,
very very disorganized. He did not try to hide his

(45:32):
crimes because he was genuinely in saying, which is a
legal term, he had no idea that what he was
doing was right or wrong. He was just doing it
as a matter of survival, and he didn't try to
hide anything.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
I think he was. I think and the him and
the nightstalker guy Richard A. Marius, Yeah, I think they
both were demonic possessed.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (45:58):
Yeah, I would go do my possessed Ramirez, though I
would say it would probably be a more organized killer
because he stopped, he hunted.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Oh That's why I was gonna get to is like
you can have both of them, yeah, in that kind
of situation. But I think both of those were like
literally the same coin, but opposite sides of it. Right,
they were very very similar, but in.

Speaker 6 (46:20):
You had possession. But one was an organized killer per terminology,
and the other one was very disorganized.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
So well, this guy was Dean Coral was extremely organized.

Speaker 6 (46:32):
Yeah, I would say so.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
I mean he manipulated his staff, if you want to
call him that.

Speaker 6 (46:41):
He knew how to hunt, he knew how to work people,
and he did.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
That and he used literal bait I mean to do
that and everything. But a white band with candy right
on the side of right.

Speaker 6 (46:52):
I shouldn't laugh at that, but I mean sometimes you
just you have to because it's so awful.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Well, here's another thing too, And we was talking by
the area and how how this could happen. Coral was
allowed to operate doing this for at least three years.
And if the investigators actually taking one of these cases
of the missing kids seriously, they may have found what
was going on. But the Hot this this was called uh,

(47:21):
you know, the they The Hots was the name of
the neighborhood outside of Houston where they lived in just
the Hots. It wasn't wealthy at all. It was very
low middle class at best to low income. Again the
time of year where runaways was normal. Yeah, and they
just didn't see these kids as a high priority. These

(47:43):
were teenage boys in the time of Aquarius or whatever
the craft was called, and they was allowed, it was expected. Yeah,
they're gonna go make this They're gonna find a better
life by leaving this town.

Speaker 6 (47:56):
They're gonna run away.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
And so the police would be like, oh, your son
run away, okay, and they didn't actually follow up with any.

Speaker 6 (48:03):
Think let's say, it wasn't even like these people would
report their sons and it's like, hey, they didn't come
home and everything, and the police treated it as a runaway,
just right off the bat, just without any kind of investigation,
without any question, just oh okay, it's just another runaway.
Yeah they didn't care. Which, again, like this entire thing

(48:26):
and the mentality of the authorities at this time, all
of this is just so heartbreaking to me as a
mother because I can't imagine our child going missing and
them saying, oh, you know, she's just a runaway. You know,
what was she have to run away from? Like I
know we're not wealthy people either and everything, but you
know they're taken care of, like you know, they're fed

(48:48):
their clothes for the most part. Yeah, you can't afford
some stuff.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
But I don't know.

Speaker 6 (48:56):
I mean, just as a parent, I cannot fathom say, hey,
my child is missing and nobody taking that serious. Yeah,
I just I cannot wrap my brain around that. It
just is, it does not compute for me.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Well, one, if there's any a bright side to take
from Coral's case and Gacy's cases, we've done a couple
of weeks ago. Earlier this month, these it changed. Not
only they shot the nation. But they shot the nation
into action. Okay, it changed the police change shift. The

(49:33):
police started changing how they handled missing teams. Okay, they
actually started looking more. This is also right around the
time that serial killers were beginning to be profiled.

Speaker 6 (49:45):
Yeah, this is when criminal profiling and the behavioral analysis
stuff really started to gain traction. So with I mean
before I think it was the seventies, the term serial
killer did not exist. We just knew, like I think
they said, it was like a pattern killer or something
like that, somebody that was They did talk about someone like, Okay,

(50:10):
we know that this killing matches that one, so it's
probably the same person. But the actual term serial killer
did not exist at this point. And we got John
Douglas what's the other guy to thank for that? His partner,
I cannot remember his name now I have his book
in there.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
But the Yeah, the definition existed, but the name didn't.

Speaker 6 (50:33):
Right. We knew it was the same person because of
the motive operation, the mo modus operandi, or however you
pronounce it. We knew that it was the same person
doing these same killings. Because of that, we just didn't
have a label for it.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Right, Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like there's still for example,
they know that awesome and sexy and beautiful and wonderful
people exist, but they've not actually come up with a
way to yet exactly. But at some point that happened
and then we'll say like, oh, yeah, it's a Daniel,
and then we'll know but that that day's coming. But this,

(51:11):
like I said, this case and the John Wayne Gacy
case especially, kind of kicked off that the old just
just runaways. It kind of really made them start in
the same way a lot of the ways.

Speaker 6 (51:22):
When Dahmer was the same way. His first victim was
a hitchhiker.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Well, I was gonna say, Menson with his little family. Oh, absolutely,
they the runaways, the people running away to flower children
whatever like that. That generation, this really started changing, like
maybe it's not just an innocent escape.

Speaker 6 (51:43):
And you saw this actually kind of come to fruition
starting about Edmund Kemper, when they were telling co eds
and everything, don't go hitchhiking, don't take rise from strangers.
That's when you started to see them actually take notice. Okay,
somebody's praying on these children, somebody's praying on these people.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Yeah. The seventies were like the high times for sural killers.
But it was also the high times for this. That's
why they were so successful.

Speaker 6 (52:09):
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean they can see we used
the like I guess, stereotypes of the of the time
that they lived in.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Well, and like I said, with Kemper's in his area, Okay,
they started saying, Hey, hitchhiking is bad. Don't do this
down here in Houston, Like okay, runaways when really don't
start paying attention. Same thing every across the country. Yeah,
this same around these same years, especially in the seventies,
it started making that twist like, hey, maybe we need

(52:40):
to start paying attention to this. Yeah, and this was
this and Gaysey I think are the two main ones set.

Speaker 6 (52:45):
Do you think they're the apex of where it shifted?

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Well, you look at both. I hadn't said this yet.
The kill counts. Gaycy had thirty.

Speaker 6 (52:53):
Three thirty three confirmed.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Right, and this guy Dean Aren't old Coral has twenty
eight confirmed and they think as many as thirty four
right because and now I'll get to wine they think
thirty four later. So I mean these were this guy
was the most prolific serial killer before Gaysey, and.

Speaker 6 (53:16):
Especially for that area too. They had not seen a killer.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Like this, And the evidence says, if you follow it
and just use logic, Coral has thirty four versus Gaysey's
thirty thirty. Right, So I mean this guy was bigger
than Gaysey. And what's crazy is when they was finding
the bodies and the remains, at one point, the sheriff
of this area that was over all of it, he

(53:41):
just told his guys to stop digging. The numbers enough,
stopped digging. He didn't want that on him that this
serial killer had done all this on his watch. Yeah,
So once he gets out of office or whatever and
gets replaced, that's when they continue back up and find
the remainder of bodies and they were like twenty eight confirmed.

Speaker 6 (54:02):
Kashi. That's one thing that I was telling Daniel earlier
when he was talking about this. And you know, because
we do a little bit of research obviously before every case,
just to for me at least refresh my memory on
the case. But when you were talking about this, this
sheriff for whoever, the police chief whoever it was saying, Okay,

(54:24):
we keep finding bodies, y'all need to stop now. Again,
as a family member, as a mother and everything, I
will be livid, Like if I had a child that
was missing, and this guy is now saying, uh, We're
not going to keep looking anymore because we keep finding
bodies and it looks really bad. Yeah, Like, okay, I

(54:45):
need to know if my child who fits the description
of one of the victims, you know, doing the whole
victimology thing, Like my child kind of fits this criteria,
but you say you're not going to go look for
them anymore, Like you need to go find that my
child's b.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
When they found the twenty eight, and most of them
were in that boat house. They found somebodies in one
of the other rentals are buried under you under property,
and they found one body in a river, buried by river.
But most of them are at that boat house, that
boat house storage facility. There's inside that boat house storage facility,

(55:24):
there's three unidentified bodies that they haven't yet been able
to still haven't been able to identify. So you got
twenty eight confirmed, you got three unidentified, twenty nine thirty one,
and then according to police investigations for that same area
during the same time frame, missing persons and unidentified remains

(55:47):
that were found. Those unidentified remains that that were found
were in the same vicinity, in the same areas that
these other bodies were, not right next door, but in
the same general area, and they had it.

Speaker 6 (56:02):
Would be conceivable that somebody could get to both.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Like and some of them had the same m top.
Because everybody was wrapped in plastic sheeting. These bodies were
also found in plastic sheeting, which brings the number from
thirty one to thirty four.

Speaker 6 (56:16):
I have to wonder too, like, I mean, the plastic
sheeting would mean most likely for him that he just
wanted to I guess not have it known that they
were decaying, like not have anybody to detect that he
used line.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Also, I think here's my theory on it. He made
his skill er in with plastic, so when he was done,
he just rolled the bodies up into plastic. So he
get rid of the evidence of that as well at
the same time.

Speaker 6 (56:44):
Right, because usually when you see somebody like wrapping a
body or I'll get it, if you see somebody like
wrap the body or something like that, it usually signifies
like a certain type of formal Oh no, but this
does not seem to be the case here, that he's
just getting rid of all of the evidence.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Of that kill when they found the bodies. They found them,
like I said, they were wrapped in the plastic, buried
under the ground with a layer of lime above them. Again,
I think he just done it get rid of the
plastic at the same time that he got rid of
the bodies. Yeah, And did it help dampen the smells
probably so, yeah, But I don't think that was I
don't think any kind of remorse played a part.

Speaker 6 (57:27):
I think it's just it doesn't seem like it. But
I mean, like I said, usually when you see somebody
like cover a body in some way psychologically, that indicates remorse,
like especially if they cover the face. But this one
just seemed to be I use this plastic in this
crime scene and everything, so I'm just gonna get rid
of the body and the plastic at the same time.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Yeape was Yeah. So again we went Overdan pretty we
well coral and again monster with a human face. He's
a most.

Speaker 6 (58:06):
Terrifying I mean, that's somebody that nobody ever expected. He
looked just like him. I mean, he he seemed he
was kind of a loner and everything, but I guess
he had enough social skills that it didn't really register
with people.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
He's a he evil with a smile. You know what
I mean?

Speaker 6 (58:24):
I think willy walk of a murderer. Now yeah, I mean,
if you're going to the candy shop, you gotta do
the will we walk a.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Reference the be a Johnny Depp will he walk? The
one that's a travestyer. But Coral was master manipulator, had
a wonderful game plan as far as getting his victims.

(58:51):
He had people bringing him a steady chain of victims.

Speaker 6 (58:56):
I say, we should probably talk about the accomplishes now,
the boys that he got to help him.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
And that's exactly what we're gonna do on our two.
As we're looking at Henley and Brooks, we kind of
touched on how they were brought into the fold.

Speaker 6 (59:14):
How they were manipulated into helping him. Because again, this
man Coral, he is he has this uncanny ability to
just hone in on somebody's weakness or yeah yeah it
would be weakness, like whatever their insecurity, their weak spot

(59:35):
is hone in on that and use it against them.
And that's exactly what he did with these two others.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
We have Elmer, Wayne Henley Junior, age of arrest seventeen.

Speaker 6 (59:54):
I mean, this is just a kid too.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
And then David Owen Brooks age of a rest eighteen, I.

Speaker 6 (01:00:04):
Still would say he's still a kid too.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Well, he started as a kid when he was looking
at thirteen and fifteen when they started, basically fourteen and
fifteen when they started. I said earlier, which one started first?
And I don't recall Henley, I think was first Brooks. Anyway,
so we'll start here. We'll just with basically the overall

(01:00:30):
manipulation of morality versus actual morality on it. For instance,
Henley he believed at first that he believed the claims
that Kral had told him the boys were being sold
to a homosexual ring, to very wealthy clods in California
and in Mexico.

Speaker 6 (01:00:53):
Yeah, they were gonna obviously it's not ideal and everything,
but he thought that they would be taken care of
by these wealthy men and everything. They just have to
basically be abused to be taken care of.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Yeah, so Iszacz Mine didn't Henley think that was equally
as damaging or horrific as we would.

Speaker 6 (01:01:14):
Think, right, And I mean nowadays we look at that
and we're like that, I mean, you might as well
just kill them. It's horrific.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Yeah, Coral, he didn't just groom his victor. The Henley
and Brooks I believe were victims at least in the beginning. Yeah,
but he groomed them into killers. Now, whether they knew
they were killing or they accepted that they were killing,
that's what they were doing, right. He would do this

(01:01:42):
by moral distancing. Coral framed the trafficking as a business,
very impersonal, outside of Henley's control. And this is actually
good for these kids because he gets them out of here,
get them to something better.

Speaker 6 (01:01:56):
And yeah, again they're being taken care of by wealthy people. Know,
it doesn't matter that they're being abused by these wealthy people.
They're being taken care of, and in their minds, it
was better than what they were living with there.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
And then for Henley and Brooks both they were desensitized.
They were exposed to his predatory behavior very gradually. First
they'll be by watching.

Speaker 6 (01:02:20):
And this is straight up grooming, Like, this is exactly
what grooming is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Yeah, first they watch, and then they'd help, and then
finally they were participating in it. Right now, I'm not
saying they participated in the rape and torture, but they
were actively bringing him victims and at some point, you know,
they had they say.

Speaker 6 (01:02:42):
They knew at a certain point that what he was
doing to these boys maybe not up to the murder,
but they knew that he was sexually abusing and torturing them.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Yeah. So remember these bodies, twenty eight victims were within
a three year period, So when they found the bodies,
there was still enough flesh on them to during the autosis,
you could see what he was doing to them, and there.

Speaker 6 (01:03:03):
Were still marks on their bodies.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
I'll get into that towards the end. So you know
that very very what's a good word, I'm I'm drawing
a blank here. Just the level of cruelty that he
was doing.

Speaker 6 (01:03:21):
Was it was, it was sadistic. I mean, he enjoyed
inflicting pain. And I don't know where he would be
on that twenty two point scale we always talk about.
But again, the prolonged torture would probably put him up
in the twenties.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Yeah, again, there's no it's speculated that it lasted for days.
We don't know. But while he had them, the torture
was intense.

Speaker 6 (01:03:44):
I say, even for a few hours, Like the point
was the pain. So that would put him up in
the twenties on that scale for doctor Stone, yep, because
those are the sexual status. Like this is not a Mascus.
You didn't want the pain inflicted on him. His entire

(01:04:05):
point not was killing or anything, it was the pain.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Yeah. And like there's some of the things that they
these boys were tied to the board, they were raped,
they were tortured, they were murdered. Eventually some of the
things that they found on the bodies with strangulation, and
they found multiple times where he would strangle them, release

(01:04:31):
and then reattach m I say.

Speaker 6 (01:04:33):
He wanted probably them to pass out, come back into consciousness,
and then.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Do it all over it signs of other tortures like
burn spots.

Speaker 6 (01:04:41):
I mean, we talked about one of Gasey's victims at
one point begging to be killed. So I think that
and I absolutely hate to say it. It breaks my heart,
but you know that a lot of these boys probably
begged for death at some point because of what he
was putting them through.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
But they found the strang elation marks, they found cuts
on the bodies. They found multiple victims had their genitalia
removed and in one case it was chewed off. You
saw the teeth marks, and everything was still fresh enough
you could see it now. These gentifles were also found

(01:05:20):
wrapped in plastic, separate from the bodies in the same
mass grave. Right, So one of.

Speaker 6 (01:05:28):
The let's say we're talking, I would probably put him
right up there with Gacia the twenty two.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Some of the things he'd done. He had access to
these long, thin glass rods, something with candy making, something
to do with sugar, I don't know what.

Speaker 6 (01:05:45):
It was, probably blown sugar or something.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
I would have said, it's some sort of stirring rod.
I don't know. It's a glass rod and very long,
very thin, and they would find them inserted into uretha
and then smashed inside there.

Speaker 6 (01:06:01):
And I was gonna say, I know exactly what that entails,
but I don't think God need to go into graphic
detail on that, because every man listening to this right
now knows exactly what that entails.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Yep.

Speaker 6 (01:06:13):
And I just I can't fathom it. I can't, like
I don't, I genuinely do not understand how one human
being can do this to another and it it makes
them happy, you know. And that's the reason, like we
do this show, that's the reason I've been obsessed with
like forensic psychology since I was a kid, because I

(01:06:36):
need that to make sense, even though it doesn't. It's
never going to make sense to me. But that's what
I'm always searching for, is it to have a reason
like to have I need to understand it somehow, and
I never will, So it's gonna be a constant search
for me, a psychologically speaking.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
So Brooks was this first Brooks a j rest was eighteen.
He was convicted of murder one time, one murder. His
sentence was life, and he died in prison in twenty twenty. Now,

(01:07:18):
during that time in prison, he was very quiet. He
didn't want to talk about it. He denied killing anything.
He had also left Korrel shortly before the end, wound
up leaving the state, getting married, starting the whole life away.
He was getting out of it now while in prison.

(01:07:43):
What's interested is his father sees Chorl on the news
in Henley. In the news he says, my son knew
these guys. So he calls his sons and tells, hey,
come back home. This guy is in the knees right now,
come back home. So Brooks comes back home and the

(01:08:05):
police are there to question him about Coral because the
dad calls the cops say, hey, my son, he knows
this guy, so he might can help y'all. And you know,
with what's going on. Dad didn't know Brooks was involved
to the point that he was involved, right, And Brooks
didn't realize how much was known from the cops when

(01:08:27):
he comes by, So he kind of his dad inadvertently
brought him in, right. So he was very unapologetic in prison.
He'd had no remorse about it. He denied events. He
was unhelpful. Basically, he winds up buying in twenty twenty.

(01:08:49):
His personality profile, I would say, would be kind of
a passive, submissive. He was more of a follower than
a leader. He That's what I was talking about.

Speaker 6 (01:08:59):
Like, usually when you see these quote unquote killing teams,
there's always a dominant and there's always a submissive, right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
And even in prison, they said that he lacked any
kind of dessertiveness. He didn't have this strong moral drive
at all. He didn't have any real basis of a
good versus bad. He was just kind of there fall
in prison.

Speaker 6 (01:09:21):
Right, sounds like a broken man.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
He rarely, he rarely expressed any kind of remorse while
in prison, he avoided any details, never giving up any information.
He distanced himself from all the crimes. He was very
much the hey, I didn't know what was going on
and just kind of denied it. Okay. Now, even afterwards,

(01:09:50):
up to this point, he idolized Coral really, yes, even
defending him early on in his custody, in his prison,
he was still defending.

Speaker 6 (01:10:01):
Okay, that Coral was probably the first person who ever
showed him any kind of quote unquote affection, any kind
of like, Okay, I care about you, you matter.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Yeah. Roots was groomed from ages twelve to thirteen. We're
not exactly sure when it started. He was given gifts,
he was given attention, he was paid large sums of money,
he was.

Speaker 6 (01:10:29):
Given a car, everything that he never had.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
He was given sexual favors from other people, not from Coral,
but he made it possible that he could. Okay, So
I mean he was all this was becoming normal to him,
because again you gotta think age twelve to thirteen, all
the way up to eighteen, he was being groomed. Again.

(01:10:55):
The murders, from what we know, didn't start till seventies
to seventy three, So there's at least a three to
four year gap right there in the beginning Coral was
grooming him. That there's no murders recorded, So it makes
me wonder what happened then too. Yeah, you know what
I mean, because it just seems like too big of

(01:11:16):
a gap for nothing like that to happen.

Speaker 6 (01:11:19):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
But yeah, Brooks was the first one. I would say
that he's a long term grooming victim. I guess turned
into an accomplice.

Speaker 6 (01:11:39):
I say, I mean, unless you get somebody out of
that situation very early on, they're going to stay in
it because they're getting that affirmation basically from the groomer,
from the prejator. So you have to get them out
of that very very early on, or it warps their

(01:11:59):
entire for se of like human relationships.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
He refused talking about Brooks refused to acknowledge his roles
in any other murders. He claimed during his trial and
throughout his incarceration that he didn't know that they were
being killed. And that's just impossible in my mind. I
don't know if he is emotionally comor you know, well.

Speaker 6 (01:12:31):
I think he does know, but he's blocking denial.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
Yeah, he's blocking it. I guess perhaps, But if he's
being groomed from twelve to thirteen, I mean he's basically
relying on Coral for his identity, Yes, and the way
in that town also, not just his identity.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
All Right, ladies and gentlemen, we have lost the bump stocks,
so I'm waiting to see if we can get them
back into the feed here. So while I have a
moment breaking news in case you've missed it, the b
two bombers to Guam was a faint. We just bombed
the hell out of several sites in Iran. So yeah,

(01:13:21):
President to address the nation in about forty seven minutes.
I haven't decided if we're going to carry that and
then go into jocks or just ignore it. The Newsy
and Meat doesn't want to ignore it. But they're back now,
so going to turn the show back.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
Over to them. Yeah, apparently we time out after a
certain time. That dropped because I think you've done this
last time too.

Speaker 6 (01:13:41):
Yeah, I remember that same exact time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
Remember when you're doing it from your phone, you got
to go in and turn the settings to say screen
goes to speak never.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
Okay, what was you saying about going live in forty
seven minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
President Trump will be addressing the nation in approximately forty
seven minut's to address the fact that he has deployed
B two successfully into a run to abo completely destroy
all of Run's three best known nuclear sites. It happened
like thirty minutes ago.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Cool, Well, we'll we'll make sure, we'll we'll wrap it
up by nine. So if we want to roll into
that live, that's cool. Whatever y'all want to do.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
Well, I haven't decided yet because that's when Amash and
I are supposed to start, And I'm like, I kind
of want to go to the President, but I kind
of want.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
To do the show. I'm I'm going to let you
guys do your over here stressing, right, But Yeah, what
I was saying about Brooks is that his whole identity
was wrapped up in Coral's manipulations. Yeah, of his identity,
his survival. He was getting so much money, the car,
everything for so long. So I guess part of him

(01:14:54):
defending Coral even into the trial time would stem into that.

Speaker 6 (01:14:58):
You know, it makes sense. I mean, this is a
person again, like you said, your entire identity is wrapped
up in how this person made you feel and what
they did for you, So, I mean absolutely, you're he
had nothing else to go on, like there was no
other No one took him out of that and told

(01:15:21):
him that this was not normal, that this was not okay.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Well, when he went to prison, he clammed up. Like
I said, after the trials, he refused any media interviews.
He denied any accountability. I guess I don't know if
he couldn't face the reality of what he had actually
helped do, so he was just denying it in denial,
or he was just angry that he got caught and

(01:15:46):
that his gravy chain went out. I don't know, because
he was very very.

Speaker 6 (01:15:49):
Seems the denial seems more in line with that type
of grooming and abuse. I mean, again, speculation on my part,
but I would say just he didn't want to accept
that he had been abused and that he was made
an accomplished for this sick man's own gratification.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
Right now, Elmer Wayne Henley aged seventeen at of rest.
He was fourteen to fifteen when he was recruited. He
is ultimately charged with six murders and is serving six
life sentences right now. He is eligible for parole, but

(01:16:35):
he's been denied every time he's.

Speaker 6 (01:16:37):
Come up, probably for the best.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
I'm not sure exactly why the denials. I just didn't
look into it, but he's still being denied now. He
is openly admitted to the killings. He is one. He
gave all the evidence. He's the one that pointed to
bodies where to find them, filed in a lot.

Speaker 6 (01:17:01):
Of blanks we haven't covered how.

Speaker 2 (01:17:02):
Filled in a lot of the blanks and all that
kind of stuff. And he does show remorse in prison
from what he what he was done. Now he would
be his personality profile would say that he is highly suggestible, Uh,
easily manipulated by older authority figures. It kind of points

(01:17:25):
back to his childhood too, with his lack of a father.

Speaker 6 (01:17:29):
Again, and someone like Coral would hone in on that
like a freaking tractor being.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
Yep, he Henley grew up in in severe poverty and
in violence. He there's abuse. Uh. He had very little
guidance to develop a strong eternal ethics, no guidance like
that at home. Any kind of guidance he would have
got would have got through school. Uh. He craved approval, belonging,

(01:18:00):
and control things that he did not have at home.

Speaker 6 (01:18:03):
Yeah, and that's what I mean. We've always talked about
like children. Children crave boundaries. They crave discipline and everything,
not abuse, Like none of this that I'm saying justifies
abuse whatsoever. But set boundaries for your kids. That's what
they're craving. They're always testing boundaries as they grow up

(01:18:23):
and everything. And if you have firm boundaries in place,
they have this sense of purpose, they have the sense
of belonging, they have the sense of right and wrong. So,
I mean, honestly, that does come down to us as parents.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
Look for bump stock barbies, raise your kids, the Renick
Way coming out soon.

Speaker 6 (01:18:46):
Hey are kids just fine?

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
So I actually know somebody who owns a publishing company.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
I'm just nice. But yeah, the craving of approval, belonging,
control things, he didn't have a home. Those are the
things Coral immediately picked up one. That's how he, like I.

Speaker 6 (01:19:06):
Said, these predators, they're liken them to wolves, like they
pick up that scent and they walk in on it,
and I mean they just go for it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:18):
Let's see.

Speaker 6 (01:19:19):
It's also like lines you know that separate the week
from the herd. You know right now, absolutely did this
Like this man Coral set himself up to be someone
that these boys could trust above their own parents.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
Now Henley, again, he come into it much later than Brooks. Yeah,
he's the one who believed they were being sold into slavery, yeah, trafficked. Yeah,
so he went along with it mainly cause the money
and the drugs and the party and all that.

Speaker 6 (01:19:56):
Yeah. But he so those were the they were given.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
So yeah, but you can see that he kind of
had a dual morality here. His emotions do finally come
in to play at the end, and we'll get to
that minute. I'll want to go over a little bit
more of him. Now Henley, and once he was arrested
in prison, he did do interviews, he did talk about it,

(01:20:22):
he did show remorse. Right again, he hasn't he hasn't
been granted parole, But psychologists of the prison have Henley
in cognitive dissociate dissonance.

Speaker 6 (01:20:39):
Cognitive dissonance, Yeah, Yeah, that's when what you have always
perceived to be true about the world, when it's challenged
by new evidence, it causes us dichotomy in your own mind.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
Psychologist suggests that Henley engaged in cognitive dissonance to survive.
He's guilt. And this is quotes from the psychologists, like,
for example, Henley would be saying, I'm helping They're not dying,
I'm just the middle man, et cetera. These kind of thing.

Speaker 6 (01:21:14):
When he's presented with the evidence that like, yes, these
boys were being murdered by him, and you helped him
get access to these boys, his brain, he can't he
can't reconcile the facts with what he wants to be true.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
That's what that is exactly. Yeah. He again, you can
find some interviews with him out there, and he's the
one that goes into a lot of detail on where
his hunting rooms were because not necessarily that he saw

(01:21:55):
them at the time, but he knew that's where they
would go party and that where these schedule disappear. Yeah,
he didn't witness coral torturing or anything like that.

Speaker 6 (01:22:06):
I would say, now we need to go into how
they ended up in front.

Speaker 2 (01:22:10):
Oh yeah, I'm going to so on August eight, nineteen
seventy three, let's see, you know that was the last
of the ones.

Speaker 3 (01:22:23):
That was.

Speaker 2 (01:22:25):
The last Uh, that's the last ones who were killed.
So let me find the date on this. Okay, So anyways,
I don't have that date in front of me, but
we'll move on so I don't get bogged down with it.
The last night, when it all comes down to the end,

(01:22:50):
Coral has Henley tell them, Hey, we're going to have
a party this weekend. Brooks has already gone at this
uh so, so now it's just Henley with him. Brooke
Henley don't have Brooks as a secondary god anymore. It's
just him and Caral Oh, and I should go back

(01:23:13):
and mentioned that Kral was married to a woman who
had kids and she did not stay very long. She
actually said that the only reason she did say it
stays because she was a single mother and he paid
for everything she didn't want for nothing. He never had

(01:23:35):
any sexual relations with her neighbors. Yes, no sign of
abuse or anything like that. He simply wanted her as
arm candy. Again, this is.

Speaker 6 (01:23:46):
A family man. He horrible things.

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
So when they interview her later, she actually says that
she was in denial too. She said, there's no way
he did these things. No way. He was too good
to Nae. That's how much of a manipulator this guy.

Speaker 6 (01:24:03):
Yes, yeah, so he mom, we can kind of understand,
but he had to pull the wool over the wife's eye.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
So he gets Henley, let's paint this picture. This is
at one of his rental homes, right, and we know
that they have these parties throughout all the time. To
have these parties. Most of the parties, these deaths don't occur.

(01:24:34):
This is just him having the young guys over, huffing
the paint, smoking the marijuanas, drinking all that kind of stuff.
So he says, we're gonna have a party this weekend.
Bring some friends, and so Henley picks out two guys

(01:24:55):
to come with him. But Henley also brings his girlfriend
to this part, which that.

Speaker 6 (01:25:03):
Was not really okay with Coral.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Was no Caral did not want a girl there, he
actually said. When Kenley actually says that he knew something
was wrong that night because of the way Coral reacted
to his girlfriend, and her name was Ronda Williams, the
way he reacted so violently and angrily, well not violently,

(01:25:27):
but such an angry outburst about her being there in
the beginning. He eventually calmed down, but Carl said I
should have left then, that we should have just left.

Speaker 6 (01:25:40):
I don't think that it was necessarily the quarrel calmed down.
I think it was he decided, Okay, this is all
just gonna go down right here, and she's not gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
He shifted gears basically, so after Coral has the change
in demeanor, let's call it that thing progress. The party
is going on, there's music playing, Alcohol's been passed around,
drugs again. These people are eighteen and younger. You know,

(01:26:10):
huff and paint and drugs. Get a hold of huff
and paint was the main one, because that knocks you
unconscious eventually. Yeah, that's what happens.

Speaker 6 (01:26:21):
And it's cheap too, so.

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
So they all huf to paint. They all blackout. Now,
Henley had been exposed to the paint, huffing and all that,
and had built up a tolerance to drugs and alcohol
and the paint. So he actually waits up early before

(01:26:43):
Pearl had wanted him to.

Speaker 6 (01:26:45):
I say that went outside of the plan.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
But here's the thing, and I often wondered this, I
would love to see what Henley thinks as well. Henley
waits up and he is tied up as well. This
time he's not just waits up on the couch, he's
actually bound with tied up.

Speaker 6 (01:27:03):
And when we say Coral shifted gears. He shifted gears.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
So Henley waits up. He sees Ronda fully closed, tied
and bound and gagged over like on the floor in
the same room. He sees Coral in an adjacent room

(01:27:27):
like doors open, everything open together onto each other. And
he has Tim McCurley bound and gagged, button naked on
the torture board.

Speaker 6 (01:27:41):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
And there's a second boy who was there, but they
don't mention him by name, but he was also bound
and gagged. So hen Lee waits up, starts talking to
Coral like, hey, you know, what's going on? What's the deal?
Kind of panicking at this point, and Caral has to
turn his attention back to Henley. Now again. Up to

(01:28:03):
this point, Henley has never actually seen this kind of
stuff happen. He's still, I.

Speaker 6 (01:28:09):
Said, he never asked questions about what Coral was doing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:12):
He's still lying to himself about him selling them off. Yeah,
so he's seeing what's going on here. Coral is in
full mode. He's got plastic everywhere on the ground, on
the walls, He's got his instruments ready. He has a
pistol as well. Because some of the bodies were found

(01:28:35):
after torture with gunshot moons to the head. So apparently
he would torture him and finally end them, not just
by strangulation, but.

Speaker 6 (01:28:42):
That's what I'm saying, Like the murder was never the point.
That was just what he did to get rid of
him afterwards, Like that was never what got him off.
It was a torture, so he didn't care how he
killed him.

Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
Coral had a gun. He points it at Henley until
I was him to shut up and kind of explains
to him, you know, hey, this is on you just
as much as it on me, that kind of stuff
like that.

Speaker 6 (01:29:06):
If I'm going down here, I'm taking you with me.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
Basically, Well, I don't think Carl had any point about
going down. He was going to kill Henley that night
as well. Right, So Henley shifts, gears himself. He starts
talking to Coral and playing to his leadership.

Speaker 6 (01:29:26):
You know, hey, playing to that vanity, that ego.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
To that ego that Coral's got right now, telling him
that actually tell him, hey, cut me loose all this stuff.
We're in this together, man, you know, what do you do?
Why do you do this to me? Type stuff?

Speaker 6 (01:29:40):
Right, Like I've been helping you, I'm your partner. We're
in this together.

Speaker 2 (01:29:44):
Yeah, so Carl part exactly. And again he was eight
seventeen eighteen at this point, so.

Speaker 6 (01:29:52):
Kind of remarkable self awareness there for a second.

Speaker 2 (01:29:55):
Well, in later interviews with him, he says that he
had been again to suspect something was going on more
than just selling them, and he was already fighting with
his guilt on it. He'd already talked about getting away
from Coral, even talked about killing him with Brooks at
one point, but that didn't really seem to go over

(01:30:18):
very well. So the idea was always just kind of
dropped and yeah, hey, here's two hundred bucks in the
cannon spray painting and plastic bag or paper bags to
shut you know. So he'd already been battling with this, uh,
these problems. Now he wakes up and he's about to
be a victim. And like you said, it's very impressive
that he was able to think like this.

Speaker 6 (01:30:40):
I say, I don't know that, Like, if I'm in
that situation, my brain is going to be in full on,
like fire in the warehouse panic mode, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:30:50):
So he he talks to Coral, tells him, hey, man,
we're in this together. What are you doing, untie me?
This is crazy and all that. So Carl actually buys
into it and he goes over and the aunties him,
but he's gonna make him prove that he's actually in
it all the way. So Carl is like, I'll untie you,

(01:31:12):
but you've got to do a B and C and
that being you're gonna rape and then murder Ronda Williams
the girlfriend, and then you're gonna help me with Tim Curley.
So that was kind of this caveat I guess to say,
and this is why we're gonna let you go.

Speaker 6 (01:31:32):
Carl was not a stupid man either, so he probably knew, Okay,
this this kid to get out of his own debt.
He's just gonna try to manipulate me. So I now
need you to do something for me.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
Now I've got you with this murder involved, right, So
he's like, you're gonna do this for him if I'm
gonna let you go, and Carl agrees to it. He's like, yeah, man,
just let me out. That's fine. I mean, Henley agrees
to it with Carl, so he lets he unbinds him,

(01:32:03):
unties and everything Coral. At this point, he strips nicked
because he's about to go do what he's gonna.

Speaker 6 (01:32:10):
Do, and he's wanting.

Speaker 2 (01:32:13):
Henley to do the same. But Henley turns his back.
He kind of walks it around like he's take getting
his clothes off, getting ready, grabs the gun up at
this point because Coral had walked back towards the kill board. Yeah,
the murder board or the torture board, so that's calling it.

(01:32:34):
So he walks back to Curly on the torture board.
Henley picks up the pistol and points it at him, saying,
you're gonna have to let us go. Coral at that point,
according to Henley, drops you know, down into like a
stance of a football player, says, and then charges him,
saying saying, you're gonna have to kill me. You're gonna

(01:32:57):
have to kill me, as he's running towards me. So
Henley obliges.

Speaker 6 (01:33:01):
Yeah, good thing he did.

Speaker 2 (01:33:03):
He shoots Coral three times in the chest, and as
Carl's laying on the ground bleeding out, he shoots him
two more times in the back, and Carl, of course,
he dies there on the spot, bleeds out, and then
Henley releases the captives cause the police. When the police

(01:33:26):
get there, hen Lee, which I think is kind of
telling for his mental state. He tells everything. He tells
the cops all of it said.

Speaker 6 (01:33:40):
These are more authority figures.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
He tells them everything. He breaks down, very very emotional.
He's telling them about the other bodies. He's a information vomit. Okay, Now,
I think that's his guilt playing the part, because honestly,
hed have played victim himself and walked away from this. No.

Speaker 6 (01:34:04):
I think the guilt, like for all the manipulation and
everything that he suffered, maybe not necessarily a bad person,
And so that's why he felt that guilt and remorse
and why he admitted to his part in this.

Speaker 2 (01:34:17):
I think so too. So I think so too. I
think his morality moment came yeah, and he was able
to tell them all just let that all out, Yeah,
because like I said, he Coral was dead. He couldn't
keep his mouth shuts. If this guy had kidnapped all
three of all of us, and then I was able

(01:34:39):
to turn the tables on him whatever at that point,
But he doesn't. He comes clean fastes up, tells the
police about all the other locations. He tells about all
the missing persons that he thinks he's that he's killed,
you know. Yeah, So of course the police that other job,
they take him in, they questioned him and all this

(01:35:01):
kind of stuff. So now we get into the finding
of the bodies, and this is where the sheriff's apartment
and the police and all that come into play, and
it turns into just a sad, sad story of the embarrassment.

(01:35:23):
I think more than anything.

Speaker 6 (01:35:24):
Misconduct, I would call it that based on what they did.

Speaker 2 (01:35:30):
So they find they start digging at the boat house first,
because that's where Henley tells them to start looking, because
they see that's where we would have some of the
parties at. That's where we would take them the victims
are the kids to be sold, and they start digging

(01:35:55):
there the police do. They only dig down a couple
of feet and dirt again, it's a dirt floor. They
only down a few feet and they find a layer
of line. So at that point they stopped digging. They
actually go to the Counties jail and they get inmates
and make the inmates come out and dig it up

(01:36:15):
because they didn't want to. So you've got this crime
scene and you've got these inmates who have zero training whatsoever.

Speaker 6 (01:36:23):
Cheap labors all they want.

Speaker 2 (01:36:25):
Dumping around with shovels digging up these bodies on the
crime scene. They didn't. They didn't care. They were told
the digs they does.

Speaker 6 (01:36:35):
Let's say, they have no training whatsoever and how to
do this.

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
And even in the houses when they was finding the
murder boards and things like that, the proper steps for
evidence weren't followed.

Speaker 6 (01:36:48):
Yeah, like chain of evidence and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:36:52):
Like there was a lot of stuff that was lost,
like what would be considered trophies were they couldn't use
them anymore. They were lost. Now, the silver lining is
that Coral is dead, so they didn't have to charge
him with anything.

Speaker 6 (01:37:10):
Well, if they had charged him anything, because the inmates
were used, they were not deputized, they were not trained whatsoever,
it all would have been through to the poison tree
and none of it could have been in missal important.

Speaker 2 (01:37:22):
I think that's one of the reasons that they were
able to just get Henley. They got Henley on six
counts and then they got Brooks on one. Yeah, And
I think a lot of it was probably to do
with just them owning up to it in a way

(01:37:44):
versus evidence, because a lot of evidence was destroyed, and like.

Speaker 6 (01:37:50):
I said, even any evidence that they would have come
up with, since it was basically done by untrained people,
like just for cheap labor, again free of the poison try,
absolutely none of it would have been admissible in court. Yes,
and this would have been like he'd have gotten off
on a technicality if he was still alive.

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
It makes me wonder back in the seventies, you know,
if it was had the chain of how the chain
of evidences would go. Actually I don't know, but I.

Speaker 6 (01:38:24):
Think even back then it was pretty standard. I mean,
whoever collected the evidence had to bag it and tag
it with their their name, their badge, ID number and everything,
and whoever handled it had to sign their name. Like
it's a whole big thing.

Speaker 2 (01:38:39):
Yeah, I would imagine so, But.

Speaker 6 (01:38:44):
Yeah, I had that man not been killed by his
own accomplice and everything, I think he would have gotten
off on a technicality. Even me as a like I'm
not even a lawyer, I could.

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
Have gotten this dude, assuming it was done today, I'm
sure now the Henley of course, he was telling them
where to look, but he wasn't able to give them
names or locations. Of the bodies. Nothing. What he was

(01:39:14):
able to do was give them a list of victims
that he helped supply. And that's what he basically turns
evidence to do, is he gives all that.

Speaker 6 (01:39:25):
And these were boys, these accomplices and everything that they
were being told basically to go in their own communities.
So they knew these people, they knew these other boys.

Speaker 2 (01:39:37):
Yeah, from what I've seen, Henley was able to name them.
He didn't know where their bodies were, but he was
able to name them. Like, oh, yeah, we didn't see
this one every again after that.

Speaker 6 (01:39:48):
Yeah, Like we went and got this boy and everything.
He came back with us, and then we never saw
them again.

Speaker 2 (01:39:55):
And while they were digging up the dirt floor storage
facility where one of the killed rooms versus were one
of where most of the bodies were buried, while they
was digging them up again, this is Texas, it's August.

(01:40:16):
You know, it's hot, hot, the ground becomes so saturated
and muddy because of the juices. You know that they
actually had a hard time digging without the side sloping
the end and collapsing. Bodies and body parts are being
mixed together. They found seven they found seventeen bodies before

(01:40:41):
they stopped.

Speaker 6 (01:40:42):
Yeah, because of all this, just the weather, the decomposition everything.
You can't bring in excavators or anything to dig large
holes because you don't know where these bodies have shifted
in this soil or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:40:56):
Well, we remember when they was getting John Wayne Gacy's
basement done, his cross space, they said they was actually
using spoons.

Speaker 6 (01:41:06):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
This now down in Houston, they had inmates with shovels
stomping around doing That's how it was done. These bodies
wrapped in plastic was the only way that they actually
were able to keep the body parts together for the
most part.

Speaker 6 (01:41:21):
Because they stay together things, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:41:23):
For the plastic.

Speaker 6 (01:41:24):
Yeah, and so you cant of be grateful that he
did that in a way because I mean that gave
them the opportunity to identify at least some of those bodies, Yeah, accurately.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
And they they so they stopped digging. The order was
given the stop. After seventeen, things start going to trial,
Things start coming out to open about how many these
kids were involved in bringing in Brooks by this points
brought back in and he's arrested as well. So they

(01:42:01):
realized by the names that they're given that they are
far more than seventeen out there, so they go to
the other properties. They start looking there. They go back
to this boat shed, they start looking there. They find
more bodies at the boat shed. They find some bodies
at the other properties. They find one buried down by
a river. They find three bodies that to this day

(01:42:25):
no one's been able to identify. I think total, there's
twenty eight identified. There's three unidentified that was buried side
by side with the twenty eight, and then there's at
least three others that match the MO in the same
general area in the same time frame that nobody's been

(01:42:48):
able to identify either. That they think probably was Brooks's killings,
and they think that those may actually be before they.

Speaker 6 (01:42:58):
Had been some of his fledgelings.

Speaker 2 (01:43:00):
Killings because they still match the m O unidentified as
a missing person as a runaway. Yeah, but the MO,
the plastic rap, all that stuff in the general area.
Now when I say general area, I'm talking like the county,
and they think he may have had up to thirty

(01:43:20):
four it's what they want to attribute to him. But
twenty eight confirmed and three more unidentified, So that's twenty
eight twenty nine thirty thirty one, Yeah, confirmed murders.

Speaker 6 (01:43:33):
And then others suspected.

Speaker 2 (01:43:35):
Yeah, and then at least three others expected, which would
put him at thirty four, which would make him more
prolific than.

Speaker 6 (01:43:42):
Well, I wouldn't say more prolific because it's only about
one more and more well yeah, but I mean he's
at least as prolific, and if he hadn't been killed
by his own accomplice, probably would have gotten well above.

Speaker 2 (01:43:56):
Yeah. If he would have went ahead and killed Henley
instead untimy, he would have kept on going. Now, he
probably would have had to take a break until he
got some more people trained.

Speaker 6 (01:44:06):
I say, until he got it, until he grew him
somebody else to take that one's place.

Speaker 2 (01:44:10):
But because if you look at his kill list, it's
pretty interesting because there's several times that there's months in
between kills or missing persons.

Speaker 6 (01:44:21):
Yeah. Because again we don't actually have like killed dates
or anything. We just have the dates of when these
boys were reported missing.

Speaker 2 (01:44:30):
Yep, and that's all we can go off of because
we don't have natural date of death like some of
them do.

Speaker 6 (01:44:37):
But that is one of the literal definitions defining characteristics
of a serial killer, that there is some kind of
cooling off period, so they're being space between each of
these reported like missing persons dates when they're reported that

(01:44:57):
would absolutely qualify. I mean he took some time.

Speaker 2 (01:45:00):
Between some of them, absolutely matches.

Speaker 6 (01:45:04):
There were some of you said that he did what
eight in one month once.

Speaker 2 (01:45:09):
Yeah, well, I'll go through it real quick if you
want to go ahead and do the let's.

Speaker 6 (01:45:12):
Say we're we're still a little early for the end memorium,
but I think we basically covered everything that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:19):
Yeah, I think we covered jest of it. I mean
we got Henley, we got Coral.

Speaker 6 (01:45:26):
There's no other details of all this that we could
really go through. I mean we could sit here and
speculate for five minutes, five or six minutes, but.

Speaker 2 (01:45:34):
Well, I'm gonna go ahead and do the immemorialm with
the dates and everything. And again, I think it's interesting
because there's a couple of brothers on here. There's some
people that share the same last name on different dates.
There's several word two people were we went missing on
the same day. Yeah, so I mean he.

Speaker 6 (01:45:56):
Was reported missing anyway, he.

Speaker 2 (01:45:59):
Was, he was picking more than one at a time.

Speaker 6 (01:46:03):
I would I would go ahead and say, like these
the dates and everything is when they were reported missing,
So they probably went missing at least a day or
two before that.

Speaker 2 (01:46:15):
Yeah, there's no I would assume day of if not
the next day.

Speaker 6 (01:46:19):
We have to assume that these the dates that they
were reported missing was obviously when he had them.

Speaker 2 (01:46:26):
Yep. So we'll go ahead and start. There's twenty eight. Again,
there's three unidentified male victims that we know of, and
then the twenty eight names are as follows. Jeffrey Conan
age eighteen September twenty fifth, nineteen seventy, Jane's Glass fourteen

(01:46:50):
December thirteenth, nineteen seventy. Danny Yates aged fourteen December thirteenth,
nineteen seventy. There's two in one day. Jerry Waldrup thirteen
January thirtieth, nineteen seventy one and Donald Waldrup age fifteen

(01:47:14):
January thirtieth, nineteen seventy one, again same day, and ken brothers.
Randall Harvey fifteen March ninth, nineteen seventy one, David Hillegeist
thirteen May twenty ninth, nineteen seventy one, Gregory Mallory Winkle

(01:47:39):
sixteen May twenty ninth, nineteen seventy one, and then we've
got Reuben Watson Harvey seventeen August seventeenth, nineteen seventy one.

(01:48:01):
We got Willard Billy Branch junior, February ninth, nineteen seventy two.
Richard Hembry thirteen March twenty fourth, nineteen seventy two. Kirk Smith,
aged seventeen again March twenty fourth, nineteen seventy two. Frank

(01:48:22):
Aguire eighteen March twenty fifth, nineteen seventy two, Mark Scott
April twentieth, nineteen seventy two, Johnny DeLonge aged sixteen May
twenty first, nineteen seventy two. Billy Balch seventeen May twenty first,

(01:48:42):
nineteen seventy two, Steven Sickmund seventeen July nineteenth, nineteen seventy two.
Roy Bunton nineteen August twenty first, nineteen seventy two. Wally J.
Simms fourteenth October third, nineteen seventy two, Richard Kepner nineteen

(01:49:09):
November fifteenth, nineteen seventy two, Joseph Lyles seventeen July first,
nineteen seventy three, William Ray Lawrence fifteen July seventh, nineteen
seventy three. Raymond Blackburn, aged twenty July nineteenth, nineteen seventy three,

(01:49:30):
Homer Louise Garcia fifteen July twenty fifth, nineteen seventy three,
John Sellers July thirtieth, nineteen seventy three, he was seventeen,
James Stayton de Mala aged thirteen August third, nineteen seventy three,

(01:49:52):
Michael Balch eighteen August eighth, nineteen seventy three, and Marty
Ray Johnes eighteen also August eighth, nineteen seventy three. And
of course, like I said, the three unidentified male victims
that were found buried alongside of them and their mass
grades mean that.

Speaker 6 (01:50:12):
We don't know about God knows their names.

Speaker 2 (01:50:15):
So and then the other three that they think they
want to attribute to him, but they have no other
ties other than in a similary remode. So right still,
those three are still considered just missing persons, and I
don't have their names. I'm not going to put them
out there because we don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:50:34):
If we don't know for sure anything, we don't want
to attribute them to this case.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
So let's see, like I said, some of these kids
shared the same last name, some of them shared the
same day that they come up missing one, two, three, four,
or five six different occasions they have come up with
the same the same day that.

Speaker 6 (01:50:58):
They were wanted missing. Again, these are just days that
they were reported missing. We don't know if that's actually
the day that they died or anything, just when they
were reported.

Speaker 2 (01:51:08):
Legally it's their day of death.

Speaker 6 (01:51:11):
But yeah, because we have nothing else to go on the.

Speaker 2 (01:51:15):
Court, So that's why that's when they gave them that
death time. You know, this was that Brooks and Henley
had to be involved this, especially if he had more
than one victim at a time. I had to have help. Yeah,
but by using the huff in the paint was again

(01:51:37):
renders you unconscious. That was his ability to control them
and get them into the position where they couldn't escape.

Speaker 6 (01:51:45):
Yeah, they were in no condition to fight back.

Speaker 2 (01:51:51):
But yeah, twenty eight confirmed. I don't know why twenty
eight named thirty one in my opinion confirmed right, because
the three that was buried alongside of them, it's thirty one.
Everything else that I read says twenty eight. But that's
just named victims. There's thirty one victims that we know of.

Speaker 6 (01:52:11):
And again, it just it baffles me that this police
chief or whatever he was saying, We're just not gonna
exhumee any more bodies. Yeah, Like, as a family member,
I would be absolutely livid.

Speaker 2 (01:52:26):
Well, like I said, they eventually went back and dug
them up. That's how we got the numbers. But yeah,
but they're still.

Speaker 6 (01:52:34):
Likely more that other families never got closure on, and
so we do. Even though we don't have names or
dates for them, we do want to remember them too.

Speaker 2 (01:52:43):
For sure. So it makes me wonder every time I
see those missing persons photos and things like that. Now
that we do this, it really makes me. It keeps
more to gut than you think than used to.

Speaker 6 (01:53:02):
Absolutely, I mean, especially his parents because these were mostly children.
I mean, no matter what their situation and everything, we
assume that those parents desperately missed them and want to
know what happened to them. Yeah, and again as a parent,

(01:53:23):
I just I cannot fathom this police chief just saying,
you know what, this looks really bad for me. So
we're just not going to do this anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:53:32):
I wish I would have took time, but we already
had so much information to really look into his background
about What are some of the things he was saying,
you know, yeah, like why for sure he done this,
Why he ordered them to stop? I don't know. It's
interesting to me, especially of his mindset. Maybe he was

(01:53:58):
close to retirement, he just didn't want this on his record.
I don't know. Again, pure speculation. I don't want to
do that, but I know Rick had mentioned the President
may be come up soon.

Speaker 6 (01:54:11):
Yeah, so we'll wrap up real quick, and you guys
are you guys are fine.

Speaker 1 (01:54:16):
I've already figured out how I'm just going to run
that on the beacon while I'm mis sure and I
are doing our show.

Speaker 2 (01:54:20):
So okay, perfect, Well y'all are doing your show at nine, right, yep?

Speaker 6 (01:54:25):
Okay, yeah, y'all hang out for just a few more
minutes because Rick and Ordy are coming on right after
us and everything with Jack's position.

Speaker 2 (01:54:32):
So yeah, that's said. We I think this one the
candy Man, if y'all want to look it up yourself.
They go into a lot more detail about a lot
of the torture and the things that they found and
they feaced together from evidence. Again, there's not a lot
of firsthand, uh witness witness accounts because Henley and Brooks

(01:54:55):
both didn't or they claim they didn't see it. Happening.
U but the forensics on it, the bodies, the shape,
days were in, the marks that were found, it paints
a really, really disturbing picture on what this guy was doing.

Speaker 6 (01:55:11):
So it's very grim. That's why we don't like to
go into a lot of detail because we want them
to be remembered, not for that, yeah, not what happened
to them, but they do deserve to be remembered for
who they were. Yeah, somebody's son, there was somebody's brother,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:55:30):
Yeah, out of respect for them and their families, I
don't I don't want to go into a great detail.
I didn't mention some things that were done just because
I wanted to show the brutality of what he was doing. Yeah,
and then the mindset to me, I think one of
the most shocking things to me is is Henley's acceptance
of sex trafficking.

Speaker 6 (01:55:50):
Yeah, just as that seemed to be, you know, just
one of those things that he was okay with.

Speaker 2 (01:55:57):
Well, he had Coral and Brooks telling him like, hey,
they get a better life than they do here, man,
our town blows. He ain't gonna gett nowhere here. At
least they got a life somewhere else now but you.

Speaker 6 (01:56:10):
Still even have to, at least at some point, ask yourself,
what kind of life are you selling them into? Because
they're not going to be treated like people.

Speaker 2 (01:56:21):
We know that now. There's no telling what Coral was
telling a fourteen year old.

Speaker 6 (01:56:24):
Boy, and it was fourteen year old.

Speaker 2 (01:56:28):
He could have been telling him how nice it was
that he was doing it. And we know that he
said that. Coral told him that he was doing these
kids a favor by selling them getting them out of
this place. And when you're being told that and then
handed all the cash and candy and drugs and everything
that you ever want, it's easy.

Speaker 6 (01:56:46):
To say, it's easy to look the other way.

Speaker 2 (01:56:47):
Yeah, And I think that's what he done. Now. I
don't think he was ever okay with it. I think
he dampened that part of himself with the drugs until
finally his girlfriend it hit home with her.

Speaker 6 (01:57:01):
Somebody that he actually cared about. Yeah, and that was
in the crosshairs.

Speaker 2 (01:57:05):
I think that's when it hit when all the reality
come crashing down. He knew he had to take him
out than he did.

Speaker 6 (01:57:12):
I mean, I would say better late than never, but
I mean there's twenty eight names on that list.

Speaker 2 (01:57:16):
Right, now you can say better late than ever. I mean,
they'd be fifty eight if they didn't do it, So yeah,
you can say better late than never, because or never
is the most horrific idea that you can hang him
up with. So better late than never.

Speaker 6 (01:57:31):
Work could have just kept going, And that's just I mean,
it's already unimaginable to me, So I can't fathom adding
more names to this list.

Speaker 2 (01:57:39):
Now twenty eight names and thirty one confirmed, it's plenty, way,
more way more than sufficient to be one, in my opinion,
one of the worst monsters we've covered.

Speaker 6 (01:57:51):
Yeah, like I said, with a twenty two point scale,
from Doctor Stone and everything, I think he'd runk right
up there with Gaycy with the torture and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:57:58):
I wouldn't put him as far as the toy box Killer, but.

Speaker 6 (01:58:02):
From you didn't even rank in the twenties.

Speaker 2 (01:58:05):
But from the things that he was doing, I put
him pretty close. Absolutely, So, Yeah, Dean Arnold Coral the
candy Man. And there's a song out there called the
Candy Man, And when I was doing my research, that

(01:58:25):
song was played in the back of my mind, and
now I'll never be able to hear it in the
same way now, because this dude was straight up a
monster with the face of an angel, and that just
goes to prove that anyone out there could be on
our show.

Speaker 6 (01:58:38):
One you just never know.

Speaker 2 (01:58:41):
So I am bump stock Ken. You can find me
on X at bump Stock Can. You can also find
me every Saturday night from seven to nine pm Central
on front Forts Forensics at FP Underscore Forensics on X
and your hostess here is.

Speaker 6 (01:59:00):
I'm bumpstock Barbie. So you got bumpstock Can and Bumpstock Barbie,
so that should be easy to remember. Also, right for
twitch you, I've got my author page in my bio there.
I do a plant page, I do a baking page.
I got a lot of irons in the fire. But
really and truly like this is my passion. It always
kind of has been, because like I said earlier, I

(01:59:22):
need this. All these awful things we talked about, I
need them to make sense.

Speaker 2 (01:59:27):
So, and you heard the boys, Rowdy Rick here with us.
He's a producer and the Grand Poomba of KLRI and
radio dot com head and him. Minority's coming up next
with Jut's position, and y'all seriously stay hang out listen
that show show. That show is one every time it hits,

(01:59:48):
it hits every time, So thanks for joining us. Enjoy
your week and don't do anything to make you become
the subject of one of our shows. Love y'all, stay
for ju just position, and have a great night. Well
the record, I am the Grand PUBA. What I say,

(02:00:09):
We're good akoona matata.

Speaker 6 (02:00:20):
I listened to a lot of true crime. I listened
to it that night. I like the girl talk. It
makes me feel I like scary stories on the morning, and.

Speaker 2 (02:00:36):
I like her that night.

Speaker 6 (02:00:38):
I like my girl talk rides. Maybe you feel just right.
I listen to a lot of true crime.