FPF 07-26-25 The One About Bryan Kohberger

Episode Transcript

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A lot of true crime.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Well, hey, they're friends. Welcome back to Front Porch Forensics.
Whether coffee's hot, the facts are cold, and the truth
is buried somewhere in between. I'm your co host bumpstot
Ken and I'm.

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Bump Stock Barbie, and it actually feels awesome to be
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about it, very.

Speaker 5 (03:41):
Happy about it. We're picking back up actually with a
case that has gripped the attention of the entire country
over the past couple of years, of the brutal killings
from Moscow, Idaho, and the man charged with carrying them
out whose name is Brian Coburger.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
And that's right.

Speaker 8 (04:01):
Tonight's episode is one we're calling the one about Brian Coleberger.
And fair warning, guys, this one is disturbing. It's pretty complex,
and honestly, it's far from being over, so let's just
go ahead and get into it. So, honey, let's start

(04:21):
out with the basics on this one. Let's just get
an overview of all of it. So, what happened in
that house on King Road on November thirteenth, twenty twenty.

Speaker 5 (04:33):
Two, early that morning between the hours well around four am,
sometime during the hour of like four am, four University
of Idaho students Madison Mogan, Kaylee gonsolve, Is, Xanna Kernodle,
and Ethan Chapin were brutally murdered in their off campus

(04:56):
home in Moscow, Idaho. The suspect is criminology graduate student
named Brian Coberger. So my question has always been, how
can someone trained in forensic investigation and like have all
these degrees in it and make the mistake that led
to their capture? And why after three years do we
has he still not explained his motive?

Speaker 8 (05:17):
Yeah, I said, this is relatively recently, especially for the
shows we normally do, but still it's been a few
years and he's still absolutely quiet about his motives on this.
If y'all have been watching the news at all, then
you've seen some reports of it. Maybe even seen some

(05:37):
of the in courtroom videos where he's just very stoic
and just not talking. But and like I said, this
guy he studied friends it's what was it again, criminology
and stuff like that. He wanted that police office, so
he had the idea and the knowledge of what you

(06:00):
would think to look for and what not mistakes to make.

Speaker 5 (06:04):
That He made some very quite simple mistakes.

Speaker 8 (06:07):
But now he also done some stuff really well too. Yeah,
because like this guy slipped in and out like he
was made out of smoke or something. Like, the house
had no forced entry, there was no immediate suspects for
a long time, and I mean he covered his tracks
pretty well minus one or two small things. And that

(06:28):
in and out like a ghost really shook up that
small town.

Speaker 5 (06:31):
Yeah. Absolutely, the community was done because for weeks people
were terrified and desperate for answers because there was no arrest,
no weapon found. To this day, there's still no weapon found.
They have not found the knife. The police are keeping
details close to the vest in order to preserve the investigation,
which actually did frustrate some of the victim's families. And

(06:52):
I'll touch on that later.

Speaker 8 (06:54):
Yeah, Now you mentioned the weapon was a k bar
knife US Marine Corps.

Speaker 5 (06:59):
And it turns out like they did go around to
different stores in the community and everything to see if
anybody had purchased you know, something. But it turns out,
I want to say that they found out, like looking
through his online activity and everything, that he had ordered
it off Amazon.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, that's why it turned out to be all the
But what's crazy is this the locals purchases of k
bars within the last I think they went back a year.
There's not forty something of them have been bought, so,
I mean, it was it would have been hard to
track down just one single person anyway.

Speaker 5 (07:29):
I mean, you gotta think that's probably about forty of
those were sold in the community and everything that still
narrows that suspect pulled down by lot.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Oh for sure. Oh yeah, it's still narrows now for sure.

Speaker 8 (07:39):
But you would think I wouldn't think forty knives in
the area that specific sy knife would have been sold
at one time, you know, yeah, relatively recently.

Speaker 5 (07:49):
That's typically a military grade Oh yeah weapon, Yeah, I
mean the k bar is usually issued.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah to the Marines.

Speaker 8 (07:56):
Yeah, I'm sure there may be some other branches that
it was issued too, but I knew the Marine Corps.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
So let's let's go through.

Speaker 8 (08:05):
Now, let's take us through the you know about the timeline,
because I know there was some parties, a livestream from
a food truck, a door dash delivery, some other security footage.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
I mean, there's there's a lot out there. So why
don't you to make it easier for me and hopefully
for our listeners. Why don't you lay it out like
you would like an on evidence board.

Speaker 5 (08:26):
Oh yeah, I mean I've been I've been following this
case fairly closely because and I have a very detailed
and extensive timeline, as y'all are going to find out.
But on the night of November twelfth, starting about nine PM,
Xena and Ethan are seen at a party at Ethan's
fraternity house, which was only a short walk from the

(08:48):
King Road apartment house where they all lived according to
the investigators. That night, Kaylee uploads pictures to her Instagram
account that featured photos of her and the friends, with
the caption quote, one lucky girl to be surrounded by
these people every day. At about ten pm, Kaylee and Maddie,
who were best friends I like since sixth grade. I

(09:08):
think is what the dad said. About ten o'clock that night,
and Kaylee and Maddy go to a sports bar in
Moscow called the Corner Club and at one thirty am,
which now rolls in a November thirteenth, Kaylee and Maddie
are seen ordering from a nearby food truck. According to
that truck's live stream that.

Speaker 8 (09:26):
They were doing, that truck has just like any kind
of advertising on social media, They had a live stream.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Going on on what's going on that night. Yeah, so
they is actually able to catch them ordering.

Speaker 5 (09:36):
Yeah, they were ordering food by one thirty that morning.

Speaker 8 (09:39):
And honestly it sounds like a typical college town not out,
you know, young young college students having a good time.

Speaker 5 (09:46):
Yeah. Absolutely. The investigators also said that Xanna and Ethan
returned to the house on King Road at about one
forty five am, and Kaylee and Maddie took a car.
I assume it was an uber type deal. They arrived
home about one fifty six am. There are two other
roommates housemates in this building named Dylan Mortenson and Bethany Funk,

(10:10):
who had also gone out that night, and they arrived
home before the others at about one am.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Now now This house is like a three level, three
story house.

Speaker 5 (10:19):
Kind of separated into a different apartment.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
They had it kind of broken up, like you said,
kind of the apartments. It was shared housing and it
had been so for years for students.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
Attending university.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, the house is kind of broken up into their
own little.

Speaker 5 (10:36):
Zones, right. A DoorDash delivery was made to Xena shortly
before before the estimated time of the murders, which police
believe occurred between four oh seven am and four twenty am.
The delivery driver's statement included some that were made in
police bodycam footage, suggests that she may have seen Coburger

(10:58):
near the.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Scene talking about the door dash delivery.

Speaker 5 (11:02):
Could have seen them, And I'll mention I'll mention something
else after I get through this timeline. But we're going
to fast forward to about eleven fifty eight am, just
a couple of minutes before noon on the thirteenth. The
nine to one one call is placed on the cell
phone of one of the other housemates requesting assistance for
quote an unconscious person. And remember both of those other housemates,

(11:25):
Dylan and Bethany, were completely unharmed. They were not targeted
in this.

Speaker 8 (11:29):
And I've got some information in some stuff that they
said too. Yeah, because my first instincts why I looked
into it. I thought, why wait till noon basically to
call Yeah, And what it was is Bethany and Dylan.
They had made comments that they had heard noises that

(11:50):
that morning that had woken.

Speaker 5 (11:52):
Up around four am, they said.

Speaker 8 (11:54):
So, they said that they had heard loud commotions and
disruptive top things. So they thought that it was just
the other roommates up doing something. And one of the girls,
I think it was Beth when he had went to
their door to ask them, you know, to be quiet,
to see what was going on, and she heard a

(12:15):
man's voice that she didn't recognize saying, don't worry about it.
Everything's gonna be gonna be fine. So she thought, great,
one of the girls has brought somebody home. I'm not
dealing with this. So she goes back to bed and
that probably saved her life right there.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
But that's why the time.

Speaker 8 (12:31):
Jumps all the way up to noon, because they went
back to bed and sleep it off again.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Nothing out of ordinary mind.

Speaker 5 (12:37):
They were home between one and two am, and you know,
these are young kids that didn't have class the next day,
so they probably just wanted to sleep in.

Speaker 8 (12:43):
So yeah, a lot of the people was talking. Some
of their testimony said that once they got back in,
they were watching One of them was watching, uh, I
can't remember now, one show on TV Baby Daddy or
something was like were that reality show. So they were
up like where her iPads or phones were watching something.

(13:06):
So they didn't like come home, go immediate to be
or immediately just.

Speaker 5 (13:10):
Like winding down for the r after they'd been out,
and so they.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
Eventually one of them posted that they had let the
dog out between two and two thirty, and when the
dog and the thing come back in after two thirty,
she decided that's what she was gonna go ahead and
turn everything off and go to sleep.

Speaker 5 (13:26):
I am glad you mentioned the dog because it was
Maddie's dog, and she actually told Bethany that one time
when she was out walking the dog, there was a
strange man watching her and she had noticed him before.
She had also mentioned other roommate something vaguely about a stalker,
and some weird messages she had gotten on like Facebook messenger.
So it seems to me nobody has ever confirmed it,

(13:48):
Like Brian has not come out and said Yeah, I
was stalking them for a long time before I killed them.
But it seems to me that that's exactly what he
was doing. He was hunting, he was learning their habits,
he was learning their patterns.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
It's very well.

Speaker 5 (14:01):
They had also several times come home and the door
to their house is wide open.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah. And again, when you share a housing place, it's
it's hard to pinpoint exactly what's going on. You know
something's up, but it's hard to pinpoint it.

Speaker 5 (14:16):
Yeah, especially with that many other people.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
But that's why I wanted to mention the timeline there
with dealing in Bethany's because that why if if the
murders happened at forward, then why I wait till noon?

Speaker 5 (14:27):
Right?

Speaker 2 (14:28):
And that is you know, I just want to explain.
That's why it.

Speaker 5 (14:31):
Just they were still asleep. They didn't report it until
they woke up and figured out what.

Speaker 8 (14:35):
Yeah, she said Bethany said that she actually, in her
statement said, I woke up at eleven fifty six, and
no eleven fifty two. When I walked out of my bedroom,
when I saw the bodies, I called.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
She made me call at eleven fifty eight.

Speaker 8 (14:48):
Yeah, and then Sot's eleven fifty eight to nine one
one college place and the tele phone. She says that
she needs assistance for what she thought I was an
unconscious person to.

Speaker 5 (14:59):
Think she probably did try to wake them up and
they wouldn't obviously wake up because they're dead, and shock
is the hell of drudges. It probably just did not
register with her because I mean, yeah, that's one of
the single most shocking things. I mean, you just woke
up and now they're dead people in the house, like
that is that's an enormous traumatic thing.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (15:22):
So the police, of course they have to go and
check it out at that point, because now on one call.

Speaker 5 (15:26):
Yeah, I mean, they're they're going to respond, you know,
just in case.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Do you have the police reports on their statements or
do I have that because I have some reports that.

Speaker 5 (15:37):
I can I think you have that, I don't. Yeah.
The police then like once they've checked it out, they
realized that there were four people like brutally murdered in
this home. They learned the public about the death, and
a news and a press release, and while they say
no one is in custody, they said that they do
not believe that there is any ongoing community risk based

(15:58):
on information gathered the preliminary investigation, which is a statement
they later walked back. On November sixteenth, Moscow Police Chief
James Fry said at a news conference, we do not
have a suspect at the time, and that individual is
still out there. And he added that the more than
twenty five investigator with the Idaho State Police and the

(16:19):
FBI were assisting in the case at that time.

Speaker 8 (16:22):
Yep, so the police, I'll share some of the things
that reported when they saw the bodies.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Of course, they enter into the home.

Speaker 8 (16:33):
The police they have recordings, so they do the recordings
on the body council he's talking to it that they
make a transcript of it.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
That's how they do.

Speaker 5 (16:43):
There, right.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
He said that.

Speaker 8 (16:48):
Ethan and his girlfriend Xana was in the bed. Ethan
had no defensive bombs at all, stabbed in the torso
and everything and up through the clavicle which got his
arteries and.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
He died in the bed, no defensive wounds.

Speaker 5 (17:09):
Xenna is actually one of the only ones who did
have defensive words.

Speaker 8 (17:13):
And then the other two friends were also found in
the bed, in the set in their own room. I
guess they had this went to bed together, which is against.

Speaker 5 (17:21):
I say for girls that are that close, I mean,
that's fairly normal.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
But they were all killed again.

Speaker 8 (17:27):
One of them had some again, just stabbing and slashing.
One of them's face was extremely mutilated to the point
that they.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
And they didn't even recognize her.

Speaker 8 (17:40):
In fact, they mistook Xena for Kaylee in the original
police report and they had to go back and fix
it once they figured things out.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
And but they.

Speaker 8 (17:53):
Ethan had no defensive wounds. One of the other girls
had no defensive wounds.

Speaker 5 (17:57):
That kind of makes sense about Ethan though, because as
another able bodied mail he was healthy, like he was outdoorsy, sportsman,
all that kind of stuff. He could have potentially overpowered.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. What happens, in
my opinion, is that he went to the bedrooms. There's
probably the girls bedroom first, and he kills the first
one and no wounds. Then he kills the second one,
and she fought back some because there was some defensive
wounds on her, but not over not a crazy amount.

Speaker 5 (18:31):
She didn't have a whole lot of time to fight.

Speaker 8 (18:33):
Out really, and then he goes into Ethan's in Xanna's room,
and imaginely he kills Ethan immediately because again, he's the guy,
he's the biggest threat. And then throughout all this, Xanna's
probably waking up through this whole ordeal. And then that's
why she had so many defensive wounds, because she was
awake to the point that she could fight back.

Speaker 5 (18:54):
Now the one.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
And of course that's just my theory. Obviously, the one.

Speaker 5 (19:01):
Thing that you could consider a positive thing from the
autopsy results is at least they did not find any
signs of sexual assault. So I mean, horrific situation and everything,
but that you can consider that a positive that this
was not a sexual crime at all.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, there was no signs at all of sexual assault
of any kind.

Speaker 5 (19:23):
Stabbing murders too, and this kind of can tie in
maybe Brian's mindsetting at the time, because it does seem
like it was maybe Kaylee and Maddie and they looked very,
very similar, so they probably could have had an infatuation
with them. But Kaylee's wounds, like one stabbings, are very

(19:43):
up close and personal, but the wounds, especially to her face,
indicate like a specific anger towards her.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Maybe that she was the one he had fit set
it on the most or something.

Speaker 5 (19:56):
Maybe she had turned him down or something, but I
mean just the the brutality of the tax indicates like
a deep seated rage.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, especially against her right there.

Speaker 5 (20:08):
Yeah, and especially on the face. Like whenever you see
murderers and everything target somebody and the extensive wounds are
to the face, it's always a very very personal thing, right.

Speaker 8 (20:23):
The So we know at this point that police are
building the case. They don't have a suspect yet, but
eventually they do pick up a suspect and that winds
up being Brian Coberger.

Speaker 5 (20:35):
Yeah, and this is not too very long after, I
want to say, like maybe within a month of the
investigation they kind of zero in on him.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah. So when basically when the name, again this is
a college town, but it's still a pretty small community.

Speaker 5 (20:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (20:50):
So when Brian Coberger's name finally surfaces, people around there
was saying like, well, who in the world is this guy?
You know, what do we need to know about him?
You know, they had questions. Finally they had a name.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
So they had questions coming.

Speaker 5 (21:03):
And there are plenty of killers we've talked about and
everything where they're kind of known in the community for
bizarre behavior, dangerous behavior. This guy like was on basically
nobody's radar.

Speaker 8 (21:16):
Well, the thing too, is like he was a student
at Washington State University, so he went to completely different
college in the.

Speaker 5 (21:24):
Neighboring state, just across the state line in.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
The neighboring state.

Speaker 8 (21:27):
So he actually left Washington went into Idaho again not
far but across state line.

Speaker 5 (21:33):
Which is probably what brought the FBI into it.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Oh yeah, well I would imagine part of it.

Speaker 8 (21:38):
But so he wasn't a member of this community, where
a lot of times we do see a member of
the community.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
He was actually not a community. Member of this community.

Speaker 5 (21:48):
The killer is usually known to the victims somehow, I mean,
maybe not close to them or anything. But there's some
kind of connection there.

Speaker 8 (21:56):
And see that's what I wonder, since yeah, it was
a different state mileage wise, it wasn't that far removed,
so maybe they did running the same circles at some point.
It's how he found them, and there's something connecting them.
I don't think this is random because of the brutality
of the established.

Speaker 5 (22:14):
It doesn't make sense to me unless this was just
a thrill killing and he just maybe it was random.
We don't know because he's not talking.

Speaker 8 (22:23):
But so he locked in on him somehow. Yeah, So anyway,
so tell us about Brian. We watched his background.

Speaker 5 (22:30):
Yeah, like you said, he was attending the Washington State
University just across the state line. He was a PhD
student in criminology. There, he had studied criminal justice. He
worked as a teaching assistant, and he had a reputation
for being quote unquote intense. Some called him awkward and
others said arrogant.

Speaker 8 (22:48):
Awkward and arrogant. So all right, so correct me if
I'm wrong here. But didn't he actually apply to be
an internship at the local police department or some sort
of criminal something to pull.

Speaker 5 (23:00):
He did. He wanted to help law enforcement analyze digital evidence.
He also conducted surveys on Reddit asking ex cons how
they chose their victims and how they avoided capture.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
So listen, guys, if you got any professors out there
listening in if you're a grad student. Starts sounding like
he's writing a serial killer manual and he's actually doing
interviews on the Hey, how did y'all get away with it?
You might be time for an intervention or at least
start looking at this kid.

Speaker 5 (23:28):
I would think so, like this is concerning at this point.

Speaker 8 (23:30):
Because on Reddit. He was actually saying, what did y'all do?
How would you get away with it?

Speaker 5 (23:35):
Yell, what would you do different?

Speaker 2 (23:36):
We've done a show similar to that, yeah, earlier on
Front Forces for instance.

Speaker 5 (23:42):
And I got to wondering, like if there was anything
in his childhood, like we tend to talk about a lot,
because usually there's major, major warning signs in childhood. But
Brian grew up in a small community called Effort, Pennsylvania,
very quiet place. His parents were just regular working people.
His dad worked in maintenance, mom worked in the school system.

(24:03):
He had two older sisters.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (24:06):
His teachers from school always said he was a little
bit off, not disruptive or anything, just very socially awkward.
Teacher said he had a hard time reading emotions, and
later he was diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum
with OCD and motor function.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Delays, Hey, we know some people on autism spectrum right now.

Speaker 5 (24:27):
Yeah, I mean we've got a couple of friends like
that exactly.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
But I don't see them.

Speaker 5 (24:30):
Now absolutely going this route, you know what I mean.

Speaker 8 (24:34):
Usually they like are very interested in you know, Star
Wars or something, or Legos or something like that.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
I resemble.

Speaker 8 (24:43):
Yeah, they're not the ones that's looking into Reddit, like, hey,
how do you get away with this?

Speaker 5 (24:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (24:49):
But uh but like I said, but.

Speaker 8 (24:54):
Back then, when I was in school, you know, we
would have just he would have been like the weird
kid in class. He was overweight, and he kept himself
and apparently he was not as overweight.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
He was obese. Yeah, he was pretty heavy.

Speaker 8 (25:08):
Yeah, he was very introverted. He was bullied throughout middle
school and he never had many friends. The ones he
did have said though, they said he was loyal, that
he was a Yeah, I mean that he was a
loyal friend right up till he wasn't because there is
a change coming.

Speaker 5 (25:28):
Yeah, here's actually where the story takes a turn around.
His junior year of high school, he decides to reinvent himself.
He loses over one hundred pounds. He starts running and
doing kickboxing. He even had that surgery to get rid
of the excess skinfolds from such a dramatic weight loss.
And you would think that this would like boost his confidence,
but everyone who knew him said that it went the

(25:51):
other direction. He became bitter. He wanted to dominate the room.
He started bullying back and hard. He put a friend
in a choke hold once for merely disagreeing with him.
So he had this new ego, but it was not
a healthy confidence. It was more of an arrogance. He
was sharp, cold and mean. One friend said he was

(26:12):
quote a one hundred percent a different person by a
senior year.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (26:16):
I wonder if it was like he decided he's gonna
take his revenge now that he could, that he had
some popularity, that he was fit.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
You know, he felt like he maybe got confidence turned
into angry.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
I wish he was one of those killers that would
open up and talk, because I mean, all we can
do is speculate on what happened here because he clammed up.

Speaker 8 (26:35):
He's not talking, this being a such a recent event.
He's still obviously alive. So hopefully he will start talking.

Speaker 5 (26:45):
I hope. So if I were like a criminal psychologist
or something, he'd be the one I want to go
sit and talk with.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (26:51):
Yeah, maybe he'll start spilling the beans. We're gonna keep
an eye on it for sure.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
So right out of high school, it's like the Florida
just drops out on He graduates high school and Brian
starts experimenting with drugs.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (27:06):
He started smoking the pots and then which it always does,
it leads to.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
The heroin, the gateway drug, because.

Speaker 8 (27:13):
Pot is the gateway drug. Now he of course he
started smoking pot.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
The gateway drug. Two snacks and naps, that's what.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
Yeah, think it would have mellowed him out a little bit.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, you know it all seriously, So side note for us, uh, marijuana,
pot all that they say it's the gateway drug, and
I think, obviously this is a bad rap on that.
But this case, he then leads it. He goes into heroin,
and obviously nobody's gonna be on the.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
Side of the hair.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
I'm sure there was probably stuffing like in between that,
because that's a severe jump from something like pot to heroin.

Speaker 8 (27:51):
He smoked one marijuana pot and then with straight hair.
That's how it works.

Speaker 5 (27:55):
Marijuana.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Well, I mean, you smoke a whole pot, you're gonna
want heroin next.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, it is. It is straight from the from the
pots to the to the heroin to the horse. But
he needles to say he got strung out, and he
got strung out fast.

Speaker 5 (28:11):
Yeah. There are reports that he was in and out
of rehab. He would claim to be clean, but those
around him still saw track marks, and somewhere in the
mess of getting clean, relapsing, and then doing it all
over again, he enrolls at a community college. Now here's
the thing, Like Brian is not a stupid man. Like

(28:31):
he had brains, he had very sharp intellect. Once he
got clean enough to focus, he threw himself into psychology
and got an associate's degree. Then he went on to
get his bachelor's degree, then a master's in criminal justice.
So he then goes on to the Sales University and
started posting strange surveys on Reddit asking x cons how
they planned their crimes and how they felt when they

(28:53):
were doing it.

Speaker 8 (28:55):
So basically he was obsessed with how the criminal mind works. Yeah,
that sounds really familiar. I'm just saying. But seriously, though
he was he was very very smart. He was very
very you know, had studied the stuff.

Speaker 5 (29:10):
And that's what gets me too. Like his the mistakes
that we're gonna talk about here soon to me, I
call him rookie mistakes.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Well the one main one, yeah, but again he come
in like there was very very little evidence at the scene.
Are there not one big one?

Speaker 5 (29:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (29:29):
So he actually covered his tracks pretty well.

Speaker 5 (29:32):
But say, if he was the stalker that Maddie had mentioned.
Kaylee had mentioned too when like outwalking the dog and
the weird messages they were getting online, like if it
was him stalking, he still managed to not make it
so known that he could be identified.

Speaker 8 (29:54):
The like said, I know they was we mentioned already
the k bar knife. Well some it's sure. We're gonna
talk about here in a minute. The sheath got left behind,
and then they also found the police when they was investigating,
they found footprints and stuff, and he come to the
back door, the sliding the glass door, and he had
left a backpack there as well, in an abandoned backpack.

(30:15):
So he did leave some evidence, but it wasn't like
a smoking gun, idiotic top moves, but you would think
it's it's studied as he was, was it they would
have been none.

Speaker 5 (30:27):
I mean again for somebody like those are things that
I would never leave behind. I would consider all this.
I'd clean up after myself, including everything I brought with me.
I'm gonna make sure I have it with me when.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
I leave it rule number one.

Speaker 8 (30:41):
So I'm wondering if the other not when Maddi not Maddie,
the other two roommates.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
And Bethany.

Speaker 8 (30:50):
I wonder when they got up at around four am,
when they got up here, in all that commotion, if
that kind of spooked him off and he.

Speaker 5 (30:56):
Ran, and I mean that could have that would explain
him leaving that stuff, which again is a rooky mistake
to me exactly.

Speaker 8 (31:02):
That's why I'm wondering if maybe that interruption is what
made him the maintenance.

Speaker 5 (31:07):
So, okay, we're going to go back. In twenty twenty two,
Brian now is Head added to Washington State for his PhD.
His studies under some top criminologists, like big names in
the academic world. In a field, it's the teaching assistant Judd.
It isn't long before students explaining about him, particular female students.
So they said he was rude, who's missive, He played

(31:29):
middlative power games with him. His professors noticed that he
was intelligent, but off putting in a little too intense,
which again that's another thing we heard from other teachers
in high school, middle school him growing up, would say
that he was intense. He graded other students pretty radically.
One professor even said he was quote losing boundaries, which

(31:53):
is not something you want to hear about a man
obsessed with the criminal mind and contemplator studying murder.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (31:59):
Yeah, we're not saying that anything here excuses or justifies
what Brian eventually ends up doing, but it does help
us better understand how someone might develop into what he
actually becomes. We've seen this and other killers before that.
This something was off putting about him, but yet he

(32:20):
was very intelligent, very intense, dismissive, and the one that
gets me is manipulative.

Speaker 5 (32:27):
Yeah, the power games of the control. Like I think
maybe that stems from being bullied for so long and
he felt like he had no control for sure. So
once he reinvented himself, like we mentioned earlier, I think
he decided that from now on he was always going
to be in control.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
So you got a you know, look, let's look.

Speaker 8 (32:45):
You had a bully child, a socially isolated teenager, a
drug addicted young adult, and finally a man obsessed with
power control in the criminal mind, all wrapped into one.
That's what we're getting here.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
Yeah, this is like put all of these things in
a pressure cooker. The social rejection, obsessive thinking, a craving
for superiority over his peers, and it makes a dark
sort of sense.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yep, yeah, for sure, folks.

Speaker 8 (33:11):
Look, evil doesn't always announce itself early, although as Laura
Here's pointed out, there were some concerning signs starting when
he was younger. If you'll recall, she's my wife has
also talked about how substance abuse is often a common
trait among killers. We just mentioned that, But Brian, he

(33:33):
didn't come from some kind of horrific background like others.
We've discussed his parents now, he come from a regular
little town with regular hard working parents, but with a
mind that was just slowly bent the wrong way.

Speaker 5 (33:48):
And this could also go to the nature versus nurture
arguments or not really argument, that little discussion that we
had on an earlier episode two. I think that for
the most part, I think it's a combination of both
nature and nurture. Like I think obviously with like the autism,
the delays, you know, and motor function and kind of

(34:10):
stuff like that, all this is nature. All this is
just something, all these things he was born with, but
the nurture come or yeah, the nurture combined with the
nature warped him, and we see that happen a lot.
But it also can go the opposite way, Like, you've
got these people in very similar backgrounds and situations that

(34:32):
don't end up going on to cause mayhem and other
people's lives.

Speaker 8 (34:39):
Right, And like I said, I wanted to touch on
his parents because you see a lot of the same
things that match up with other killers and Brian.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
But the main things about his parents is they were,
like I said, they were normal people. His mom worked
in the school system.

Speaker 5 (34:56):
Say, we don't have any evidence of any kind of
abuse or anything like that going on in the in
the home. Nothing, but it is worth mentioning again. And
I've mentioned this before because it's kind of my own
little disclaimer that just because someone is fascinated with crime
and those who commit them, doesn't mean they're dangerous or
will become dangerous. But when that obsession meets now, when

(35:20):
that obsession meets isolation, rage and entitlement, that's kind of
how you end up getting the types of stories we
cover each week. Right, Like, I've got this fascination, but
I'm not isolated. I'm not you know, filled with rage
against other humans, and like, I don't have a sense
of entitlement over anybody else.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
So and yet and yet Daniel is still terrified he's
going to end up on a shopping list.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah. I think I already know for sure, there's a
list already done, there's a plan already made. Anything in right,
I just hadn't put it into in the works HyET.

Speaker 5 (35:59):
So it's okay, it's like that general mattis like, be
compassionate and everything, but have a plan to kill everybody.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
In the room.

Speaker 8 (36:07):
Yeah, exactly. So we've kind of went over Brian. We
got some of his background. We've talked about his connections
through the colleges with the other.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Girls and all that.

Speaker 8 (36:21):
On the chat, we have somebody mentioning here about whatever
happened to the concern that he had tried to message
Maddie and Kaylee on Instagram.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
He would send a message.

Speaker 5 (36:34):
Well it was I think Maddie had said that she
got some weird Facebook messages inst I think, but okay,
a social media site anyway, one of one of the socials.
But yeah, like she she had mentioned a stalker, but
kind of in passing. Nobody ever really not even she really,

(36:55):
I guess took it seriously enough to report it. But
she was making those comments to her friends and to
her other peers that this was kind of going on,
and you know, she had seen somebody watching her when
she was walking dog late, right, And again we have
no hard proof that it was Brian, but it just

(37:18):
it makes sense that it would be him.

Speaker 8 (37:20):
Yeah, it turns out that Brian was following all of
them on their social media Instagram. Ye, so he he
was following. Maybe that's where obsession come from.

Speaker 5 (37:32):
Maybe. I mean it's easy. I mean, we've got our
own situation where somebody has become fixated over social media
and having to deal with all that right now too.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
And I know that.

Speaker 8 (37:42):
The girls and I don't know that displays a party,
and I know they had tender accounts as well.

Speaker 5 (37:48):
Yeah, I think that in the timeline, like some of
the stuff that prosecutors and the investigators were looking into
was to see if he had a tender account too,
But I don't think anything ever came of it.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, let's say, I don't know.

Speaker 8 (38:03):
I just know that I'm just trying to tie into
social media aspects of it. And I said it was
mentioned in the chats that yes, there was some messaging
and attempts to message on my Instagram too.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
So that's nothing in my research today, like just trying
to make sure I got my timeline straight of everything.
I don't think that any messages were made public information,
so I don't think that maybe they didn't have a transcript,
Like we don't know if he was hitting on them
and they rejected him or or what. But that could

(38:36):
explain that the brutality of the crimes too, is the
rejection again.

Speaker 8 (38:42):
Well, hopefully we'll get some more of that when it
starts coming out.

Speaker 5 (38:46):
I want, I really want that man to start singing
like a canary. Hopefully you've got nothing else to lose.
He can't get the death penalty now, so.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
We'll get to that.

Speaker 8 (38:54):
I'll jump ahead. That's my job to get off. So anyway,
just get back to it.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
So let's talk about the evidence, the hard evidence that
we got right now. How did the authorities zero in
on Coburger.

Speaker 5 (39:08):
It started with some surveillance footage showing a white Hyundai
Launtra about a twenty eleven in twenty thirteen version. That
car type matched one that was registered to Coburger. Then
the cell tower pings came after that, his phone placed
him near the crime scene multiple times both before and

(39:29):
after the murders.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
And did they tie it all together with the DNA.

Speaker 5 (39:33):
Eventually you mentioned the knife sheath that was left at
the crime scene, and they did find a single DNA
profile from a man. Investigators then use genetic genealogy like
those websites ancestor dot com and all the twenty three
ae meters or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
All that lean you never commit your DNA to anyone exactly.

Speaker 5 (39:56):
H I've always been curious about those sites, but I'll
never do it, Like I'm I just don't want to
have in my DNA.

Speaker 8 (40:03):
I'm gonna get the one that does the cheek swab. Yeah,
have it sent here, and I'm gonna swap the dogs
and send it back.

Speaker 5 (40:08):
And so they say they actually do have genealogy stuff
like genetic chesting for dogs the human one.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
But yeah, don't give you DNA up to anybody.

Speaker 5 (40:17):
Yeah, I mean, it's really neat and it's an easy
way to find out you know, more about like your
family tree and everything. But now all those sites, and
I have looked this up too, they do make you
like those the terms of the terms and conditions and everything.
Part of that that nobody ever reads is that yes,
they can be subpoena and turn that over to the
police for any reason.

Speaker 8 (40:38):
So, like I said, you can chase back your genealogy
without your DNA. We've done it on both sides, my
mother's side, in my father's side of the family, we
trapped back to the eleven centuries later, earlier, whatever you
wanna call it. So but basically so, the police in
their instant investigation, they recovered the sheath, they chested it

(40:58):
for DNA and found a single mail.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Then they used a genealogy.

Speaker 5 (41:03):
Usually at crime scenes on anything that they could consider,
like you know, part of the murder itself. Usually like
you'll find even some of the victims DNA on that thing.
But the sheep only had one DNA profile on it
and it was from a man.

Speaker 8 (41:20):
And now when you said that they recovered DNA that
match through the trash recovered from his parents' house.

Speaker 5 (41:26):
Yeah, once they it was it was enough to get
a warrant everything. And I'll cover that too. But they
do track him down and his parents and everything, because
he was staying with his parents. He actually, like the
day after the murders or something, rode back to Pennsylvania
with his dad.

Speaker 8 (41:44):
Yeah, yeah, he had Now again, this happened in Idaho.
His family was in Pennsylvania and he'd done these murders
right before he went home for dollar days.

Speaker 5 (41:54):
Yeah, but they did get a search warrant for the
house and everything and through some of the trash with
and I'll mention it's in the timeline for the legal proceedings,
I'll mention what they found. But they were able to
conclusively prove that it was Brian Coberger's DNA.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
So basically just textbook friends at work, and we've talked
about it before. We know how y'all should know how
we feel about trash evidence. It always tells a story.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
I say. I mean, if you go through somebody's trash,
like you can actually get a pretty detailed look about
their lives. Oh yeah, you know, it's kind of alarming.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, so let's see.

Speaker 8 (42:35):
So this kind of leads up to the rest now,
so we can kind of go through that timeline if
you're ready for that.

Speaker 5 (42:42):
Yeah, the legal stuff, the court proceedings and all, that's
probably gonna take the most time because it's just so
much there.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Hey, you know what, I'm going to interject real quick.

Speaker 8 (42:53):
The tiny tyrant has cut us dinner tonight, and it
looks absolutely wonderful. We got handbreaded chicken fingers and prince fries,
So thank you. So she has been working in the
background and she's done an excellent job, so thank you,
tiny tyrant.

Speaker 5 (43:14):
So anyways, well she was miming in the background here
earlier when we were talking about me and the grocery
list and everything. She crossed herself.

Speaker 8 (43:23):
Okay, So basically the rest and aftermaths where we're at now.
I don't know if you're going to get into his
alibi because he had one.

Speaker 5 (43:38):
I know that.

Speaker 8 (43:40):
When I'll tell you what, you go through this not
enerjets when it comes out. So let's just so just
walk us through the takedown.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
You know. How did they wind up getting it?

Speaker 5 (43:51):
Yeah, they had actually been tailing him for days. They
were just kind of building their case about him quietly
behind the scenes. He was arrested in the Poke Mountains
at his parents home in late December of twenty twenty two.
So he actually drove across the country, like I mentioned,
a second ago with his father right after the murders.

Speaker 8 (44:13):
Yeah, and they were I remember there was some pretty
odd behavior during his arrest that kind of set off
some red flags, right.

Speaker 5 (44:20):
Yeah, he was asking them if anyone else had been
arrested like immediately, Yeah, but I mean his demeanor was very,
very calm, which a lot of the investigator's authorities found
kind of unsettling. They said that they also noticed him
wearing gloves at all times, even indoors.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
See. I wonder if his demeanor being calm part of his.

Speaker 5 (44:43):
And that's what his defense lawyer kind of brings up
later on that that is part of you know, him
being on the autism spectrum and everything. But the glove
thing was interesting because I read an interview with an
inmate who was in the cell next to his. He
said that he would ask him like Brian would ask
this other inmate and everything, you know, probing questions about

(45:06):
his crimes, how we felt when he was committing them,
the same kind of stuff he was asking other X
cons and read it. But he also said that this
man obsessively washed his hands so countless times during the day.
But remember I mentioned he was diagnosed with those for sure, Yeah,
and he would take He said it was very annoying
because Brian would take forty five to an hour long

(45:28):
showers because I guess, like maybe germophobia kind of is
part of his OCD.

Speaker 8 (45:35):
No, so basically he would shower the same amount of
time a teenage girl does.

Speaker 5 (45:40):
Yeah, very much.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, So now let's go through this legal the battle
that's going on that has just played out last week,
this past week. So this do I could, I guess
each his way for me would be like to be
done A timeline set up.

Speaker 5 (45:58):
So let's say all I know, which is a very
linear timeline.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
So let's just run it from the beginning after the rest,
and you just kind of take it.

Speaker 5 (46:07):
His legal team tried to suppress a lot of evidence,
including the DNA links. They wanted to suppress witness testimony
from Bethany Funk, one of the surviving housemates, wanted to
suppress her testimony, all kinds of things they didn't want
letting in. They like, for instance, they originally didn't even

(46:28):
want to let in like the cell phone tower and
GPS locations and everything like that until they brought in
their own witness or their yeah, expert witness side something
I can't remember his name now. On December thirty first
of twenty twenty two, the public defender of Monroe County, Pennsylvania,

(46:50):
where he was being held. Yes, so he was being
held there and the public defender. That's just like the
you're basically as that lawyer that you're appointed court. You know,
as part of the miranda rights, you can't afford one,
one will be provided for you. So that was him.
He says that the suspect intended to waive his extradition

(47:12):
hearing to face charges in Idaho, said quote, he should
be presumed innocent until proven otherwise, not tried in the
court of public opinion. This one is a man named
Jason Labar. He was the public defender involved. He added
that mister Kroberger is eager to be exonerated of these
charges and looks forward to receiving to resolving these matters

(47:33):
as promptly as possible.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
And now that was the first statement back in Yeah, that's.

Speaker 5 (47:39):
Not his actual attorney that he ended up with, I
don't think, because that's just again it was the public
defender of Memory of Pennsylvania. That's the same.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
That's just kind of like the first public statement made
after this on.

Speaker 5 (47:50):
His behalf because he Brian himself was he clammed up.

Speaker 8 (47:54):
Yeah, but it's interesting you'll see later that again he changes.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
But anyways, go right here.

Speaker 8 (48:02):
So now we're moving on to January third, twenty twenty three.

Speaker 5 (48:05):
Now, yeah, Coberger on January third, twenty twenty three, appears
in court and agrees to go back to Idaho, and
he's flown out the next day on January fourth, and
is booked at Aladda County Jail. Now he makes his
first court appearance in Idaho and is ordered held without bail.
Another pre trial hearing was in set for January twelve,

(48:28):
so I'm going to skip forward. January eighteenth, the list
of items sees from search more and four Cobert's Pullman,
Washington apartment is made public. The belongings include a pillow
with a quote reddish brown stain, a disposable glove, and
at least a dozen strands of hair.

Speaker 8 (48:44):
Now, this is the apartment he was living in. File
attend in Washington.

Speaker 5 (48:49):
State units his apartment, and that.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Was in Pullman, Washington, very far not far across the
state line, right from Idaho.

Speaker 5 (48:58):
So now we're on February twenty eight we get a
search warrant for the home of his parents in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania,
and the court record and everything that was unsealed revealed
that the items include four medical style gloves, a silver flashlight,
and a bugle swab DNA test. That well, I think

(49:19):
that that means that they got the warrant to do
one of those tests. Okay, but I mean they they
found all sorts of stuff, like even I think there
was like a used Q tip or something too. That
there was all sorts of stuff in the trash at
his parents' home that confirmed his DNA too.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Right.

Speaker 5 (49:39):
By May sixteenth, a Ladda County grand jury returned an
indictment charging Coburger with four council first degree murder and burglary.
That paved the way for arraignment and a trial. So
May twenty seconds, Coburger stands silent when he's asked to
enter a plea, which prompt Latta County District Judge John Judge,

(50:00):
that's an odd name for a judge, Judge, Judge, Judge
Judge to enter a not guilty plea on his behalf
on all of the charges murder and burglary. The trial
was tentatively separate October second, and in addition, prosecutors had
sixty days then to give notice if they would see
the death penalty.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Now this is back in twenty twenty three. At that point, still.

Speaker 5 (50:21):
We've moved forward into twenty twenty three.

Speaker 8 (50:23):
So even then at the pre trial where he entered
his flea, he was still clammed.

Speaker 5 (50:28):
Up, wouldn't talk, He wouldn't even say guilty or not guilty.
The judge had to basically kind of enter it for him.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Right. So here, now we are in Idaho at this point.

Speaker 5 (50:40):
Yeah, he is extraded back to Idaho and.

Speaker 8 (50:42):
They are looking for the death penalties. What they're shooting
for there.

Speaker 5 (50:47):
Yeah, they after the after the grand jury like returned
their indictments and everything on all accounts. I think that's
when it said the prosecution has sixty days to determine
if they are going to seek the death penalty. Right
June sixteenth, again, twenty twenty three year, the DNA on

(51:07):
the knife sheet that was found in the home on
King Road definitively links him to the crime scene. So
we get that firm DNA match right there June sixteen.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
So now it's like the smoking gun, here's the DNA.

Speaker 5 (51:20):
So on June twenty six prosecutors then say that they
will seek the death penalty against Coborger if he is convicted.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Once that DNA came in, that was what they needed. Yeah,
so now they're going after You would think that he
would want to would want to stay in Pennsylvania and
not go back to Idaho if he knew that the
death buildings on the table.

Speaker 5 (51:38):
Yeah, but yeah, the prosecutors wrote a court filing that
aggravating circumstances in the especially heinous killings, led to that decision.
Idaho at that point had not carried out an execution
since twenty twelve.

Speaker 8 (51:52):
Ah, so that might have been part of this thought
process if they hadn't done an execution in ten years
at that point.

Speaker 5 (52:00):
I think maybe at this point he probably still thought
he had a chance of getting away with this.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Okay, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (52:09):
I mean, we again, we have no understanding of this
man's thought process. Is because he clammed up. August twenty third,
Coberg then waves his right to a speedy trial during
an appearance in Latta County Court, where his legal team
says it may not be ready for an October start date.
A new date had not been immediately decided. Then, his

(52:32):
lawyers also said that they will file motions strike the
death penalty and file another motion seeking to ban cameras
in the courtroom, and basically they didn't want this televisor
or anything.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Right, Well, we know that that falls through.

Speaker 8 (52:47):
But I also know that they asked that he could
wear a suit that they wouldn't put him into orange
jump suit.

Speaker 5 (52:52):
They thought it would taint the jury's perception.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
So they wanted They was asking for a lot of
stuff to go on his.

Speaker 5 (52:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean they even I don't think that
the lawyer even wanted him in the courtroom because his
whole demeanor, he was saying, would taint the jury against him.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yeah, and again they was going back to being on
the autism scale, but the jury would misinterpret.

Speaker 5 (53:16):
That as cold and remorseless and right. December fifteenth, now
Latta County District Court denies the defense team request to
dismiss the indictment against Coburger on various reasons, said John Judge.
The judge. Judge that still sounds so weird to say,

(53:37):
was quoted as saying, Coburger has failed to successfully challenge
the indictment on grounds of Jurbias, lack of sufficient admissible evidence,
or prosecutorial misconduct. Coburger was indicted by an impartial grand
jury who had sufficient admissible evidence to find probable cause
to believe that Coburger committed the crimes allegedly by the state,

(53:59):
so inta tells of the ruling itself are still sealed
I think at this point. But the judge just said, no,
you're not going to overturn the grandeur indictment because like
there's no evidence of what you're accusing, sir, bias and
misconduct by the prosecution. Like there's no, there's no basis
for that. So no, we're not letting you.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
It sounds like to me that the defense was just
thrown everything they.

Speaker 5 (54:23):
Could probably and that's probably why this drug out is
long as it.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Did, kind of like throwing it to see what stuff.

Speaker 5 (54:30):
Yeah, we're going to go into now. September twenty September
sixth of twenty twenty four, a judge approves the defense's
motion for a change of venue outside of Latta County
because remember I think Ladda County was the actual county
that Moscow in Idaho is it could be, I'm not sure.
On the twelfth of the trial is moved three hundred

(54:52):
miles away to Ada County, which is where like the
state capital, Boise is. Cases assigned a District Courts Judge
Stephen Hipler, who rules on November twentieth that Coburger may
receive the death penalty if he is convicted.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
So the defense did get one. At least they didn't get.

Speaker 5 (55:08):
They got their change of venue venue, which probably would
have been a fairly easy one. I mean, as highly
publicized as this is, it would have been easy to
argue that he couldn't have received a fair trial in
that county.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
See.

Speaker 8 (55:19):
I kind of feel that the venue should be a
neutral grounds in every case like this.

Speaker 5 (55:27):
Yeah, I mean, these especially high profile cases. I can
absolutely see that, because I mean it is a reasonable
request on the Defensi's part to say that. No. I mean,
he's basically been tried of the court of public opinion already,
so he's not going to be able to receive a
fair trial here.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
And that happened. I don't care what you say. That
happens every time.

Speaker 5 (55:48):
Yeah, So let's see February nineteenth again. We're in twenty
twenty four now. Hitler denies several motions followed by Cobert's
defense attorn to suppress the key DNA evidence. He also
denies defense's request for a Frank's hearing, which is when

(56:09):
the defense challenges the validity of information used by law
enforcement to obtain a search warrant. So they were going
to challenge how the evidence that they got the original
search warrants for.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Right now, what they were going to do that was
February nineteenth of twenty twenty five. Word in art this.

Speaker 5 (56:23):
Year, now, oh we would be yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
September six when it got twenty twenty four, when Hipler
took over, was twenty twenty four. Yeah, and now we're
into February nineteenth, twenty twenty five, when Hippler is still
denying several notions.

Speaker 5 (56:38):
Yeah, like you said, they were just throwing stuff at
the wall to see what stuff.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
I think so too.

Speaker 8 (56:44):
I mean they wanted to suppress the DNA and other
appetists like that. Well, of course they want to suppress that,
and of course that's going to be.

Speaker 5 (56:52):
Denied, but I say, DNA does not lie. So I
mean that's it's like that scene in lyral Lyer, like
you're on raight object on what grounds? He said? Because
it's devastating to my cap exactly, And that's exactly why
they did not want the DNA being entered in as evidence.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Like a different scene from Layer Layer, the elevators scene.

Speaker 5 (57:14):
Yeah, that's a really good one. I love that movie.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Yeah, we're gonna have to watch that again. It's been
a while.

Speaker 5 (57:20):
Okay, that was February. On March fourth, now, an unsealed
court document by the defense says that Coburger exhibits core
features of the autism spectrum disorder and that if he
has found guilty, putting him to death would be unconstitutional.
His lawyers also said that his mannerisms in court could
prejudice the jury, and arguing his trials should not allow

(57:41):
for capital punishment.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
See now, I actually, honestly I agree with a lot
of that I say.

Speaker 5 (57:46):
I mean, if he is like officially diagnosed with autism
spectrum disorder, yes, his demeanor is not going to be
what we expect from somebody who does not suffer from this.
Right now, you can see all the pictures and you know,
the clip and everything, he does come off as just
very cold. He like witnesses in the courtroom and everything say,

(58:06):
he hardly ever moved. He just kind of stared blankly ahead,
like never reacted to anything.

Speaker 8 (58:14):
And I don't know how much he can attribute that
to his autism versus him just being Yeah, there.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
Are some people that wanted to have him tested for
a diagnosis of maybe psychopathy, which, as I've talked about
many times, we just basically call antisocial personality disordered. Yeah,
but other experts were saying, you know, just watching him
in the courtroom without sitting down and actually talking to
him and everything, we can't make that kind of diagnosis,

(58:40):
you think, which is whise.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Do you think that diagnosis would have made any difference.

Speaker 5 (58:44):
No, it would just have explained a lot.

Speaker 8 (58:47):
So you know, it would be interesting to find out
if that's where it played out.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Now.

Speaker 8 (58:52):
I had mentioned earlier in the December thirty first, twenty
twenty two statement that it says that he's going back
to Idaho and he's looking forward to fighting this and
is oonerating himself. And I mentioned that that's a unique
statement because what we're about to see kind of flies
in the face of that.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
It's another turn. Yeah, so I think now we should
be I think this was like the end of June
when this happens.

Speaker 5 (59:16):
Yeah, it was June thirtieth. Coberger appeared in court ready
to accept a plea deal to plead guilty in connection
with the killings. A copy of a letter sent to
families and reviewed by the Idaho Statesman said the plea
deal would ensure Coburger's conviction and secure life sentence.

Speaker 8 (59:34):
And I think that main is because with the death
penalty being on the table, Judge Hippler saying it is
definitely on the table, I think the reality of it
is like, hey, this case is not going.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
To go our way.

Speaker 5 (59:47):
And again, DNA does not lie like his DNA was
on the sheath of the murder weapon that was never
found like that. I mean, that's the clincher right there.
I think when all that they knew it was going
to be admissible, they're like, all right, we got to
change tactics now, even a correct.

Speaker 8 (01:00:02):
Course without even without the murder weapon. His DNA was
left at the seat. Yeah, and that's the only other
DNA in the house that wasn't you know, part of.

Speaker 5 (01:00:15):
Us say that really didn't belong there.

Speaker 8 (01:00:17):
And it was on a sheath that held a weapon
that that matched the damage done to the body, so serrated.

Speaker 5 (01:00:26):
Well, they yeah, they knew it was a fixed blade
knife type weapon. And again the him ordering a k
bar off of Amazon, that would they found out like
that style and everything would fit that sheathe. That one
you could say at least the missing k bar and
everything and possibly fitting that sheet. You probably could say

(01:00:46):
that that's you know, circumstantial evidence, but the DNA.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Is not right. So we've got where the deals made.
But he still has to show up in court and
actually do this in person, right, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
I mean he is appearing in court, and from some
of the stuff that I've seen, I think he is
still wearing the orange jumpsuit and a lot of those fotos.

Speaker 8 (01:01:08):
Yes, in this last little hurrah there in court, he
is wearing the orange jumpsuit.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
So they didn't give him the opportunity to word to suit.

Speaker 5 (01:01:18):
And we are now into the beginning of this month of.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
This year, July second.

Speaker 5 (01:01:23):
Yeah, Coburger on July second pled guilty to burglary and
four counts a first degree murder. He did not provide
a motive for the killing, but he agrees that he
intentionally murdered the four victims. Hitler set a sentencing date
for July twenty third, when the victims' families will be
able to give their victims statements. So just a few

(01:01:43):
days ago, I mean, what's today, like the twenty six,
twenty seven, So like three days ago, four days ago,
Hipler sentence Coburger to four consecutive life sentences for four
counts of first degree murder in ten years in prison
for the burglary charge.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
So he gets four counts of life plus ten yes.

Speaker 5 (01:02:00):
Said quote. The loss this killer inflicted was not just
the death of these people's children, siblings, grandchildren, as we've
heard today. It has ripped a hole in their soul,
destroying a special part of their very essence.

Speaker 8 (01:02:13):
And it's been a really long legal road that was
going through this, I said, in this case that we're
covered tonight is extremely chilling to me. You've got four
lives loss and community changed forever. And the worst part
to me watching the sentencing this past week is that

(01:02:35):
families had a chance to speak and the judge obviously
he gives Coburger a chance to say something to the families.
And we've all seen this where to have their final
words in the courtroom. A lot of times it's some
sort of defiant things. Sometimes the killers remorseful and yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:02:58):
I mean if Jeffrey Donald got up and apologized to
all these families and everything, and sometimes you see that sometimes,
like I think it's rumored that like John Wayne Gacy,
his last words before they strapped him to the to
the table or the chair. I can't remember if it
was lethal injection or electrocution, but it's rumored that his

(01:03:21):
last words were kissed my ass.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Yeah, that's what somebody said. But I think when they
offered him his opportunity to say his last words, this
rumored that he said that. But in this case, again,
the only words that Coburger said throughout this whole ordeal
in the courtroom was.

Speaker 5 (01:03:39):
Just three words. When the judge asked him if what
he wanted to have his own moment to speak, he
only spoke three.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Words, I respectfully declined.

Speaker 5 (01:03:51):
Yeah, that's all he said.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
And you can see if you watched it, you could
see the judge just this, the disgust on his face
when he'd done that. God, and he, the judge even men.

Speaker 5 (01:04:02):
Better had he done some long speak, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Well.

Speaker 8 (01:04:05):
The judge even mentions later that Coburger is a complete
coward for doing that way, not offering these families any
sort of any sort of closure, any sort of reasoning, nothing.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
Just now. I did read that some of the families
said that him even taking the plea deal, they didn't
see it as cowardly as long as like he was
admitting it and he's going to be punished for his crimes. Yeah,
if it was me as a family member, I would
have told the prosecution and everything. I do know, no
plea deal whatsoever. We're going you can get him beyond

(01:04:39):
a reasonable doubt for murder. We're going for the death penalty.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yeah, it's pretty the I understand why he took the
pleat deal obviously.

Speaker 5 (01:04:50):
Well, I mean, he's saving his own skin.

Speaker 8 (01:04:52):
So what I found interested in is a family statements
throughout all this, because you see some of the sisters
of Kayley and they're talking. I mean they're just laying
into talking about how bad he was and how good
she was and all this kind of stuff, which is
completely understandable. But I was amazed that some of the

(01:05:14):
family members were actually tell him that they forgave him.

Speaker 5 (01:05:20):
I said that, I think that's a kind of strength
that I don't I don't see myself having that kind
of strength too. Of not that I mean, not immediately, anyway,
I could get there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Eventually got two separate parents of two different kids, and
I forgive me. I don't remember which ones.

Speaker 8 (01:05:37):
They both said that they forgave him. They were they're Christians,
and that they said that they prayed over it and
they decided that they forgave him, but he still should
suffer the.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Of on earth.

Speaker 8 (01:05:56):
But they basically forgave him for their own self.

Speaker 5 (01:06:00):
And that's what that is. I mean, you don't like
when other people have wronged you and you forgive them.
It's not really for them, it's for you to be
able to heal and to move past it. And I
absolutely get that. I don't think that sitting there looking
him in the face, I would have been able to
have done it in that moment, you know. I mean,

(01:06:24):
I remember there's that there was it's a whole different case,
and I can't remember what it was about. I want
to say it was one of those coaches that was
like molesting some of his players, the female players on
his team or something, the gymnastics team, and the dad
when he was making his fitness his victim statement and
everything on behalf of his daughter looked at the judge says,

(01:06:46):
I just I'm gonna request one thing, and said, you
give me one hour with him in a locker room,
like I think I would have asked something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
That's what he wanted, was one hour with him, and
I get it.

Speaker 5 (01:06:58):
Yeah, I mean as parents. I think every single person
listening right now, if you're a parent, you can all
understand that instinct, you know.

Speaker 8 (01:07:09):
But again, this guy autistic at some point on the OCD.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
I get all that.

Speaker 8 (01:07:17):
But from all accounts had a good childhood, no signs
of abuse mentally or physically.

Speaker 5 (01:07:25):
Or parents anyway. The bullying would be mental and physical
abuse sometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
So I think the situation at school coming up with
the bullying and all that kind of stuff had to
play a part.

Speaker 5 (01:07:38):
See, And that's the only motivation that I can come
up with for these crimes that makes any sort of sense.
Because once he you know, did his whole like reinvention
of himself, lost all the way, got you know, in shape,
he never wanted to feel that powerless ever Again.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
No, and it come out in the worst way.

Speaker 5 (01:07:58):
I'm saying. He never, like I mean obviously back probably
back then, I think he's what like eight years younger
than me, So I mean, actually, it would have made
more sense to you know, see the bullying and everything
and maybe get him a counselor get some therapy to
be able to process those feelings of anger and hatred
and everything without letting them just turn into this festering

(01:08:20):
sore inside him. So this is the only kind of
way my brain makes sense of what he did. And
maybe those girls did reject him at one point and
that was just like the final rejection. He just could
not take it anymore. That was the rejection that finally
broke that camel's back.

Speaker 8 (01:08:36):
With him his interest in criminology and all that, and
then his posts on Reddit. It makes me wonder if
he wasn't looking to become a killer anyways, like he
was already trying to go down that avenue in a way,
maybe because we see a lot of people they start

(01:08:57):
off with doing small all things, yeah, right, and then
they work into the killing. If he was already having
that kind of obsession with and stalking there and then
well that obsession with the criminology and the murder side
of it by doing the reddits with the.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
Questionnaires on how would you do it?

Speaker 8 (01:09:18):
Type thing and then talking to criminals, and it shows
us up again once thereescit, even talking to people in jail,
but obviously there's already that obsession started there. So I
wonder if the instagram following them on Instagram and that
kind of stalking kind of developed into oh look now

(01:09:41):
I have an outlet, Now I have a target, or
if he was already on Instagram looking for a target,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
What I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:09:49):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many different ways that could
have gone. I mean, obviously, I don't know if maybe
the social media stalking started first and then that wasn't enough,
because as I've talked to plenty of times on the
show before, the fantasy always escalates.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:10:05):
It could have started on social media. He just found
these pretty girls that you know, he was attracted to,
and he realized, oh, they don't live far from me,
they go to school near me, and he was like, okay,
finally scrolling through their photos and all their comments and
everything on social media. Finally that's not enough. So now
he's starting to show up at their home right and
watching them do the everyday things like walking their dog,

(01:10:28):
going to get the mail, like going to class, going
to hang out with their friends. Now he's like in person,
in their like close proximity, watching them. He's already again
the house they come home more than once to the
door being wide open, And I mean that could be
either just you know, one of the roommates being in

(01:10:50):
a hurry one day, just didn't like latch the door
very good when they left, or something that's entirely a
possibility too. But all of this is just too much
weird coincidences for me to ignore it exactly.

Speaker 8 (01:11:01):
And again this part of the show, we're just speculating
right now because Brian Coleburger's not talking. We kind of
went through the case. Y'all all heard that. Now we're
just kind of talking through it. So if you on
the chat have anything you want to add, I'll gladly
read through it and see what y'all thought process as well.

Speaker 5 (01:11:20):
I say, it's still early to do our memorial.

Speaker 8 (01:11:23):
Yeah, we'll say that it's gonna be a long one,
but we'll say that towards the end obviously. But now, again,
the there's no proof that he was stalking them to
that level, Yeah, we have for that, but looking at
this hit in history in general, with other killers and

(01:11:44):
kind of their mos, that's not far out of the
imagination too.

Speaker 5 (01:11:48):
It's entirely reasonable to assume that, or to to be
able to question that, like were you in their home
at any time like before the murders, Like.

Speaker 8 (01:12:00):
Do they find any that now? Again, this was a
mass killing. This he's not a serial killer.

Speaker 5 (01:12:05):
This is a mass rat.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
So there was no like trophies taken or anything.

Speaker 5 (01:12:12):
Wasn't because he has ever been found. And to me,
that's why it almost seems in a way like a
thrill killing. Maybe like all the stuff that he had
studied for all these years in school and everything. Maybe
and asking these criminals how they felt when they did it.
Maybe he just wanted to see how it felt.

Speaker 8 (01:12:31):
Yeah, And he did it right before he was scheduled
to leave to go back to Pennsylvania too, so he
I mean, he planned it out. This is not a
disorganized This guy's definitely organica.

Speaker 5 (01:12:41):
This the I mean, the first degree murder is perfect
because this was premeditating.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (01:12:49):
This was not a spur of the moment thing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Yeah, this isn't a he saw him at the party
and followed him home type situation.

Speaker 5 (01:12:57):
Yeah. I mean, that's that's why we can only sit
here and speare, which I always loved doing. That's what
we usually sit on the porch, right when we talk
about stuff like this.

Speaker 8 (01:13:06):
Now, I know part of his defense and his alibi
was saying that he was he was out and about
and that's why his cell phone was pinging. He said
that he had went to a local park to stargaze.

Speaker 5 (01:13:22):
Yeah, but even that explanation didn't pan out.

Speaker 8 (01:13:25):
Yeah, because they said that there's no evidence that the
car was there that night. There's no the guards that
he didn't see anything.

Speaker 5 (01:13:33):
Well, they also even checked the forecast for that night
and it was overcast, so he wouldn't been able to
see something.

Speaker 8 (01:13:38):
I was getting there. Yeah, but they said the card
saw nothing. Crazy, he didn't see the car in the area,
He got no reports of anybody being out there, and
like you said, the forecast that night was overcast, so
it would have been hard to see stars that night.

Speaker 5 (01:13:56):
If not just downright impossible, depending on how overcast it
is exactly. Yeah, I mean, his explanations for it just
never really panned out. They also the defense, and I
don't think they ever made this argument, but I know
they at one point they were intending to. But they
were going to try and say that the knife, the

(01:14:17):
sheath for the knife, and everything was planted there by
somebody else. They were basically going to say that Brian
Coburger was framed.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Well, that would be kind of hard to do.

Speaker 5 (01:14:27):
I mean, I mean, you would think if somebody's going
to go through all that trouble to frame somebody, they
would have left more evidence, not just the one thing.

Speaker 8 (01:14:36):
And that's also something else they found in I think
it was in his home, in his apartment in Washington
that they found a shovel and they still had dirt
on it. So they are assuming that he used that
shovel to bury the clothes he was wearing and the.

Speaker 5 (01:14:57):
Knife, because the knife's never been found.

Speaker 8 (01:14:58):
Yeah, because they've not found any the car he was
in that they found no blood or anything at all
in the car, the clothes he was wearing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
They found no clothes in.

Speaker 8 (01:15:10):
His apartment or on his body, obviously they had any
kind of blood or the na on them like that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
And obviously we already said they didn't find a knife.
So the speculation is that because of that shovel had dirt.

Speaker 5 (01:15:23):
On it, he had recently buried.

Speaker 8 (01:15:25):
Obviously he had used it, so they're assuming that he
had buried the the clothes and evidence to get rid
of it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:15:33):
Another another thing I forgot to mention, he uh he
had there were employees of a local Walmart out there.
They said that they do remember him coming in like
after his picture was shown. Everything they were like, I
remember that guy because he came in here asking for
a ski mask that would cover his entire face.

Speaker 8 (01:15:52):
And they But it makes me wonder that if that
park he was claiming he was at is maybe where
he went and buried everything.

Speaker 5 (01:15:59):
I think I would, I mean, naturally they probably would
have checked that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
Yeah, but that's a lot of park, you know, So.

Speaker 5 (01:16:09):
Yeah, I mean I do. I hope he starts talking
like because he can tell him, Yeah, I bury the
knife up in that bark, and I can take you
to where I buried it.

Speaker 8 (01:16:16):
And it made sense that he would have buried it somewhell,
somewhere that he could have easily gotten to in a
relatively short amount of time, because again the shovel was found,
whether it found that his apartment or at the house
in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 5 (01:16:29):
Do you remember, I want to say his apartment, but
I cannot.

Speaker 8 (01:16:33):
Be because reasons say it being is if his found
that his apartment makes the most sense, because otherwise, if
the shovel was found in Pennsylvania, then that would lead
you to think that he took the knife and the
bloody clothes in the car with him all the way
across the country because this was a road trip with
his father and that would incriminate the father as well.

Speaker 5 (01:16:55):
We have no yeah, yeah, there's no England whatsoever that
his parents has had any.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
Idea, right, so I'm pretty sure that it was found
in his Washington apartment.

Speaker 5 (01:17:05):
Yeah, I mean, and no friends of his, what little
he may have had, none of them have come out saying, oh, yeah,
you know, he was acting really strange and you know,
making cryptic statements and everything leading up to the murders.
Nobody's come forward like that either.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
Nope, let's see the I did.

Speaker 8 (01:17:25):
I did notice one thing too, and we see this
a lot. It's actually that we need to do a
show on this, at least an hour at some point
on this about the phenomenon of it being a Pacific Northwest.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
They seem to seem to be so many.

Speaker 8 (01:17:43):
Killers in the northern California Pacific Northwest region there.

Speaker 5 (01:17:48):
Yeah, I mean it just seems I think I have
a book on it too, but yeah, I mean, there
were just it's ridiculous, like how many have just come
from that region of the US.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
Yeah, it could be what is the seasonal depression theory,
maybe because it's it's pretty.

Speaker 8 (01:18:06):
Rainy and all that for the most part year around.
But if you look at the amount coming out in
northern California, that kind of throws that away too, you
know what I mean. Yeah, so that kind of kills
that idea. But it's interesting because it is something to
look into.

Speaker 5 (01:18:23):
Yeah, we'll definitely go go into that at some point
because yeah, I always forget just how many we talk
about come from that region.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Yep, we definitely need to look at this. That'd be
a good one.

Speaker 5 (01:18:37):
I say. He's scrolling comments right now.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Yeah, I'm just looking through the comments. Have y'all got
anything y'all want to add? Now, he was from born
and raised in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 5 (01:18:49):
Yeah, the effort Pennsylvania, I think was that he was.

Speaker 8 (01:18:53):
Really the only tie to the Pacific Northwest is his
college days. So obviously that was just I'm not saying
that's what caused it. Yeah, I just thought it was
kind of neat that you get up there because you
maybe spending so much time in the woods and all
that rain, smoking the pots with all those hippies. Maybe
that does something to your mentality, you know, your mindset.

Speaker 5 (01:19:17):
Any kind of substances, drugs, alcohol, whatever, it alters your
brain chemistry. It really does. But I mean we have
mentioned there's been a history or substance abuse with a
lot of murders that we talk about. Yeah, it's a
pretty common thread. I think honestly, I don't think it
causes it, but I think there is something going on mentally,
and they're kind of almost self medicating to kind of

(01:19:39):
dampen it. I guess whatever's going on to quiet the voices, Yeah, something, yeah, whatever,
anxiety or depression, like you see, I'm doing the drugs
to escape that, and.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
That's actually that probably has a lot to do with it.

Speaker 8 (01:19:54):
Yeah, And I made it kind of a kind of
snickered about quieting the voices, but honestly, that's very well
could be part of it.

Speaker 5 (01:20:03):
But I say, we do know. I think it was
that Richard Chase, the vampire one we did.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:20:09):
I think he was a severe alcoholic and everything, but
he also had like very severe mental problems.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:20:17):
He's very messed up.

Speaker 8 (01:20:19):
Yeah, I think he was him and the not stalker
I think are legitimately demon possessed.

Speaker 5 (01:20:24):
Yeah, so say it manifested kind of in different ways,
but for the most part, it still ended up with
people dying.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
Oh yeah, just different versions.

Speaker 8 (01:20:36):
But again this one just being a spree killing would
be mass or it wouldn't be spree.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
Spree masses all in one spot.

Speaker 5 (01:20:44):
Yeah, spree would mean it's still multiple in a short
amount of time, but its spread over different locations.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
It is so interesting to me.

Speaker 8 (01:20:52):
And again I hope he eventually talks as the other
two people in that house wouldn't harm.

Speaker 5 (01:20:57):
Yeah, we were talking about that earlier today, that Bethany
Funk and Dylan Mortenson completely unharmed. There's no evidence that
he even tried to get into their rooms or anything.
So what was it about these four specifically but not
those two in the same heart. There's really more questions

(01:21:19):
than answers. Starts talking.

Speaker 8 (01:21:21):
The thing that separates dealan in Bethany from the four
victims is that Brian was not following Bethany and Dilan
on social media. So I think that actually, in my mind,
it has to play a part.

Speaker 5 (01:21:39):
I think the police and the investigators did end up saying, yes,
this was a targeted attack, right, I mean, for whatever reason,
these four people were chosen. And again I kind of
wonder if part of it he just wanted to finally
see what it was like for himself.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
Yeah, very well.

Speaker 8 (01:21:59):
Could I think the timing of it leaving immediately after
uh he played it out for this to be the
night that uh so he very well could have followed
them to those parties. He could have trailed them for
all night long.

Speaker 5 (01:22:14):
Yeah, that's they were looking like on those security footage
from like the bar or even the food truck's live stream.
They were looking to see if anybody kind of showed
up right in any of that footage that they could say, hey,
that person was also there, you know where where these
people where the girls were.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
I know they was looking for camera angles from any
kind of municipal camera to see they can see his
car and the area as well.

Speaker 5 (01:22:42):
But I said they they did start out kind of
early on asking for any information of the driver of
white Hondai Lantra because it was seen driving past the house.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
Many times, staking them out.

Speaker 5 (01:22:55):
I think he was absolutely learning their patterns and their
daily habits, which again very very organized versus disorganized killers.
He is a classic example of an organized killer.

Speaker 8 (01:23:07):
Yep, I agree, and again fascinating to me because he's
been so quiet. I want him to talk obviously, I
think eventually he will, because it's still early on yet.
I don't think he's really set in necessarily, yeah, because
he's already shown that he is willing to talk to

(01:23:30):
other inmates about the crime, right, Yeah, So I think
he will open up and we will get more information
in makeup from other inmates. But I think he will eventually.
I think he's probably already talking but it just hadn't
come out yet. But I hope he does officially make
some statements, mainly because for my curiosity, but also because

(01:23:51):
the family needs some sort of closure.

Speaker 5 (01:23:52):
I think there's just I'm not even related to these
these kids or anything, but you know, my heart was
breaking all day, especially writing the memorial for them. Yeah,
and I just you need those answers I do anyway,
like to It's like I always say, I try to
always make sense of the why about these these kind

(01:24:18):
of things, and sometimes even the why it doesn't make sense,
but that's okay because there still is that reason.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Yeah, And we're not getting anything from them on that.

Speaker 8 (01:24:25):
But talking about the families, if you go to court
TV on YouTube, it's called court TV.

Speaker 2 (01:24:32):
It's on YouTube.

Speaker 8 (01:24:32):
You can find it easy and you can see what's
going on in the courtroom, and there's several videos showing
the families. They're just breaking down in tears. You can
see the family statements at the end of the trial
or during the trial. You can actually hear their own
words and see their pain, and it is heartbreaking and

(01:24:53):
it is wonderful at the same time of what some
of them are able to do with a forgiveness side
of him. It's impressive and heartbreaking on all at once.

Speaker 5 (01:25:05):
Yeah. I mean the ones who were able to look
him in the face and say that they forgive him
and everything. I want that kind of strength, like that's
something to admire.

Speaker 8 (01:25:13):
Well again, hopefully well he will wind up talking and
give them some sort of formal closure to these people.

Speaker 5 (01:25:21):
Yeah, I'm really hoping that some criminal psychologist somewhere gets
a hold of him, and I think you can appeal
to his ego at least, Like if I were a
criminal psychologist, that's exactly what I would do, is try
to appeal to that ego and his education. Yeah, and
see if I can get him to open up like that,

(01:25:42):
like kind of like what they did with Ted Bundy
when they couldn't get a lot of stuff out of him,
they would say, they started appealing to his intellect and like, okay,
well if you did it, how would you have done
it right? You know, And he would open up to
them that way kind.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
Of yeah, if I did it, this is.

Speaker 5 (01:25:59):
How I would have Yeah, but yeah, I mean I
would love to be like a fly on the wall
if anybody does get chances to interview him in like
a clinical setting like that. Would love to be a
fly on the wall for that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
Well, like I said, he got four life sentences plus
ten years to the burglary. And I noticed that even
with his pleaged gariment that there's zero chance for appeal.
He can't even appeal this.

Speaker 5 (01:26:24):
I said, there's no parole, no, nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
Can't even appeal it, no parole obviously.

Speaker 5 (01:26:30):
And I think that that's probably why the judge was
so strict about like letting in the evidence that they
wanted to have thrown out, was so he could say, well,
you can't say that there was, you know, prosecutorial misconduct,
because we did this all by the book and the
constitutionality and everything. They probably could have had a good

(01:26:51):
argument against the death penalty by citing his autism spectrum disorder,
because that would seem pretty reasonable it would seem that,
but I think in my mind that the disorder would
have to be so severe that he would have been
unaware of the right versus wrong aspects of what he
did well, like if he couldn't understand that, if his

(01:27:13):
if his disorder impaired him to that degree, then I
think putting him to death would be unconstitutional because he
would have no concept of why he's dying.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Right, But obviously, but his actions prove otherwise because he
got rid of evidence.

Speaker 5 (01:27:26):
Yeah, if you're trying to hide it like that, we
mentioned Richard Chaseman it ago. There was no attempt to
hide anything he was doing because he he literally had
no concept of reality.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
Yeah, he was disconnected.

Speaker 5 (01:27:36):
Yeah, I mean he left out bloody blenders and everything
for just any God and everybody to say anybody seen it,
And I mean he was just he was always so
erratic and everything. There was no effort whatsoever. There was
no conscious thought what I'm doing is wrong and if
I don't hide it, I'm going to get in trouble. Right,
But there is that evidence in this case, So yes,
if we can't, they can't. They can't argue in sin

(01:28:00):
on this one. And like I always say, insanity is
not actually a psychological term. It's a legal term. Yeah,
Like we don't see it in clinical psychiatric settings whatsoever.
It only like the insanity plea is a legal legal term. Yeah.
I mean we say insane just colloquially and everything to

(01:28:21):
mean like someone's just out of their mind, Like how
could any rational, sane person do this? So we call
them insane?

Speaker 8 (01:28:30):
Yeah, And like I said, unfortunately Coburger here he will
spend the rest of his life in prison, and unfortunately
he may never tell us why he had brutally.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
Murdered these people. So what I'm going to do now,
since we're kind.

Speaker 8 (01:28:45):
Of running in circles, Yeah, as We're gonna go ahead
and go through your immemorial. Okay, I'll let you do that,
because afterwards, I want to talk about, you know, a
little personal stuff from that went on this week, and
I'll get Rick involved because I know he I think
he's got an idea of where I'm going to go here. Yeah,

(01:29:05):
so but all let's go ahead and do the in
memorial and I'll hand that over to you and then
we'll change will shift gear.

Speaker 5 (01:29:11):
After that, I'll ask Rick to put up the photos
of these kids because again we've talked a lot about
coburger and everything, but I want their names and their
faces in your mind, because these are the important people.
We say it every single time we remember Madison who
was called Maddie Madison Mogan. Kaylee Gonsalvez always have a

(01:29:35):
hard time with that one. Xanna Kernodle and Ethan Chapin.
Not for how they died, but for who they were.
They were students, they were friends. They were somebody's child.
They were somebody's brother, sister, girlfriend, you know they they
were somebody's somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (01:29:54):
At one time, Madison Mattie Mogan was described as a
force of confidence wrapt in kindness. She was a senior
majoring in marketing at the University of Idaho. She had
an eye for design and a spirit for leadership. Her
life was said to be magnetic, and her loyalty unwavering.
Weather working long shifts at a local restaurant or planning

(01:30:16):
in her future with her best friend Kaylee, Mattie never
stopped striving to build something beautiful. She had dreams that
stretched far beyond Moscow, Idaho, but her heart remained anchored
in her friendships and her family, and she leaves behind
a legacy of deep love, joy, and a bond that
not even death could break. Kaylee, her best friend against Alvez,

(01:30:37):
was a young woman who lived loudly, loved deeply, and
dreamed boldly. A recent graduate, Kaylee was preparing to start
a new life in Austin with a promising job in
the tech world. She was ready to take it on
unknown for her fierce loyalty and sharp wit. She was
a protector to her siblings and a soulmate level friend
to Maddie. And that's one thing I think it was.

(01:30:59):
Mattie's father had said that they were best friends since kindergarten,
they went to college together. They were, you know, planning
basically to stay friends for life, soulmate level friendship. He
said that they grew up together, they did everything together,
and they ended up dying together too, in the same bed,

(01:31:22):
they said. Kaylee's confidence was contagious, her future was electric,
and her loss is felt not just in her hometown
of Wrathroom, but in every heart that she touched. Kaylee
was said to be the kind of person who made
you believe in yourself and in the power of good friends.
Xanna Kernodle was described as someone who danced through life
with energy and heart. She was a junior studying marketing.

(01:31:46):
Xenna had a spark that lit up every social circle.
Athletic and lively, she was known for her sharp sense
of humor, quick laugh, and her ability to find joy
in the every day. She brought people together, whether it
was a game night or a quiet moment of comfort.
Her relationship with Ethan was full of laughter, tenderness, and
a sense of shared adventure. Xanah lived with fearless authenticity.

(01:32:08):
Her absence is to silence felt by those who knew
her warmth, her resilience, and her deep, infectious joy and
chapmain her boyfriend was joy in human form. As his
family described, he was actually a triplet from Conway, Washington.
So he's got two other twin brothers that he's outlived by.

(01:32:30):
Ethan lived life with curiosity, laughter, and loyalty. A sports
enthusiast and a student of recreation management, he was always moving,
whether it was skiing, pathwarding, or simply showing up for
his friends and family. Part was as big as his smile.
He loved his siblings fiercely, and his bond with Xana
was full of light. He had a future rooted in

(01:32:52):
community and service, a life like the others that was
only just his family said, his memory remained, and every
sunset over the fields that he loved, and every last
shared by those who.

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
Knew his soul right and here at front for strings,
it's we always will end with the immemorial because if.

Speaker 5 (01:33:14):
They're too long, like we did with Jonestown or something,
I usually make a poster for sure. We always remember them.

Speaker 8 (01:33:21):
Of course, now we have to focus on the killer
because of this to get the story across. But the
focus should be on the victims. And that's how we
want to do this is to honor the victims with
every show.

Speaker 5 (01:33:34):
And I've always said the way that we can hopefully
learn how to prevent these kind of tragedies and everything
is by learning about them. So yes, we have to
talk about the killers. We have to talk about the
details of the case itself, right, So we do it
with the hope that one day other people will kind
of recognize these signs that we talk about all the

(01:33:56):
time and maybe be able to step in before it
gets to this end.

Speaker 8 (01:34:04):
Yeah, but again, focus on the on the victims because
those are ones that they remembered.

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
If we can figure out how to wipe away the
names of these murders in every case we That's what
I would like to do. I want the victims to
be remembered.

Speaker 8 (01:34:18):
So I want to move away from this darkness that
is Brian Coberger. Hopefully coming up in the next few
months or years coming up, he will begin talking and
we can revisit this and get some sort of closure
answers to all of the questions. And he is shived

(01:34:40):
in prison before that happens. I'm not gonna be mad,
but still it would be nice to get some sort
of closer.

Speaker 5 (01:34:48):
My first all, when you said if you get shived
for the first thing popped in my head was a
tough city for him. Like I just I don't have
any sympathy, Like I don't wish death on people. I
don't hope it happens, but if it does, I'm not
gonna lose any sleep over it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
No, no, for sure. So what I want to transition
to now?

Speaker 8 (01:35:06):
And I know producer Rick, the main man is sitting
there behind the console and I haven't prepped him on
this at all, but.

Speaker 5 (01:35:13):
I said, I don't even know what he's going for.

Speaker 2 (01:35:15):
Yeah, the lives of middle aged men all over this
world was forever darkened and saddened this week because two
icons of our lives passed away. We have Ozzy Osbourne

(01:35:36):
going in and then the immortal Hulk Hogan. Just the
other day going in.

Speaker 5 (01:35:41):
We had I can't remember if it was in the
green room or where I saw it, but somebody said,
I can't believe Ozzie's first thing in heaven was to kill.

Speaker 2 (01:35:51):
Yeah, I saw that too, but so I wanted to
touch on that this week, and I know Rick would
probably join me, especially on hawk Odin. But how do
you feel about Ozzy?

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
How well? I was until when I was much smaller
and we didn't have music licensing yet. When I first
started America Off the Rails, my intro music, because I
was still learning stuff, was the riff from Crazy Train
because it fit. But then I got a sea some
desist order from his attorneys.

Speaker 2 (01:36:27):
Well that's not Ozzy.

Speaker 5 (01:36:30):
He probably was.

Speaker 1 (01:36:31):
Bastard was like, he's conservative, don't let him use my ship.
But no, I mean, I liked some of Ozzy's music,
but I have to admit when he when I was younger,
when he was you know, doing his thing, he scared
the crap out of me and my parents. My parents
didn't like him either. They're like, you're not listening to
that guy's music. He bites the head off bats.

Speaker 5 (01:36:53):
So I didn't really I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:36:56):
Yeah, I didn't really get into him until later. But
I mean, I so the so for me, it wasn't
really someonech I mean, the Ozzie one stung because dude's
been around for forever. But you know, Keith Richards just
got to do the quickening. So he's cool now because
you know, there can there can be only one. I
think he's the last one standing of that entire group,

(01:37:17):
so he'll he'll.

Speaker 2 (01:37:19):
Live forever now. Yeah, Keith Rachel just got the quickening
from him, So I saw that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:26):
Yeah, he'll live forever now because he was the last
one standing of the group. But for me, the ones
the so that one's stung. But then you know Malcolm
Jamal Warner passing away earlier in the week, a kid,
it's only a couple of years old. It was only
a couple of years older than me who I grew
up watching on TV. Which you know, especially with kids,

(01:37:47):
when you relate, when you can relate with the character
on TV, it's almost like they're part of your family,
so hearing that just kind of really sucked. And then
like the whole, the whole whole Kogan thing. I didn't
really get into him until I I'm in Rocky three.
And then that was because I only ever really watched
wrestling with one of my cousins and that was only
when I was down for the summers. But then he

(01:38:08):
was in Rocky three, and then I was like, oh,
I recognize that guy, so I kind of got into it.
And then then they had the whole uh the cartoon
show when we were kids where Hulk was the good
guy and Pipe was the bad guy, and yeah, so
I kind of got into that. But yeah, that that
that one was the one that hit me the hardest
of the well, I mean, there were a lot of

(01:38:30):
passings recently, but of the three that happened like back
to back to back to back, the the Malcolm Jamal
Warner and the uh, the Hulk, Hogan would hit me
the hardest. And since we're talking, since we're talking about it,
I only feel I only feel this is appropriate, and
yes I have the licensing this time, so no season
desisted order.

Speaker 6 (01:38:50):
Every Man.

Speaker 5 (01:38:52):
I am a real American fight.

Speaker 2 (01:38:56):
For what's right, life had to be done.

Speaker 8 (01:39:02):
Oh yeah, I'm over here with tears of my eyes
from that.

Speaker 5 (01:39:05):
Rick.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
I love it.

Speaker 8 (01:39:07):
So since you now, since you played Hogan, I guess
I can jump right into that first. But I do
want to say about Michael Jamal Warner.

Speaker 2 (01:39:19):
I was not a huge fan.

Speaker 8 (01:39:21):
I mean I know who he is and I did
watch the shows and all that, but it didn't register
with me as being a big loss.

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
And that's me. I mean, that's on me. Like I said,
I just wasn't a big fan. But oh, to me
was a huge loss in the music world.

Speaker 8 (01:39:40):
And I'll push him. Well, let's just do OZ real quick.
To me, had ups and downs. Obviously had the TV
show The Osbourne's. He had a couple of TV shows
with his son that was like paranormal top stuff. He
had one where they was traveling around and stuff. So
he he was more than just a musician he had.

(01:40:02):
He was like the reality TV star too. He was
one of the bigger names that let you in behind
the curtain into his life. Yeah, and so to me,
Gene Simmons also had done that as well. But the Osbourne's,
to me, that TV show really humanized the evil Prince
of darkness.

Speaker 5 (01:40:22):
You know my parents, it wasn't really a big deal
listening to and everything. Yeah, your dad was, I mean
my dad, I mean he had I've got a bunch
of his final records up here, but like he had
Ozzie and like, so I grew up with this kind
of stuff from toddler age and everything. As long as

(01:40:43):
I can remember, Daddy was always playing some kind of
album like that, from the Eagles to Ozzie. I think
he even had like some what was it, like Mega
Death or something. He had some Metallica like it was
and from that kind of stuff to like James Taylor exactly.
Like he ran the gamut of music and everything. So

(01:41:05):
my musical upbringing was very, very wide and eclectic.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
Mine was very similar my dad.

Speaker 8 (01:41:11):
Some of his favorite bands was like Doctor Hook, Yeah,
the Beg's Bread and but he'd also he loved Alice
Cooper and Ozzy Osbourne.

Speaker 5 (01:41:23):
Tell them describe what your dad looked like when he
was younger, because his dad was like the aging hippie.

Speaker 8 (01:41:28):
He still looksy. Yeah, all right, it's very simple. You'll
know what I'm talking about. Tommy Chong from Cheaching Chomp.
When my dad was in his early twenties and all
that growing up. Pictured Tommy Chong in the movie Up
and Smoked, my dad was identical.

Speaker 5 (01:41:45):
I did not believe that anyone when he said it
was that close until I started seeing like some of
their old family photos and I was like, okay, you
were not kidding. There's no exaggerating one.

Speaker 8 (01:41:54):
He's been dressed like you. Okay, I think he might
have smoked the pots too. But and then, uh, even
now you see Tommy Chong now white haired, white beard,
he's aged obviously. Again my dad looks just lick him still.
So it's kind of funny when that. I like to
find that out. He drove the motorcycles, rove motorcycles, all.

Speaker 5 (01:42:17):
That kind of picture of him with the motorcycle, and
he's got like bell bottles on in the head bed.

Speaker 2 (01:42:22):
He's got the glasses, the headband, a vest with no
shirt opened up, wearing the bell bottles, propped up on
a chopper like a I want to say, he's like
a trumph chopper or something. So I mean, Tommy Chong,
that's who my dad was. But he loved music.

Speaker 8 (01:42:38):
He loved Ozzy Osbourne, Black Sabbath, you know, and so
I had all those Vital records too growing up, and.

Speaker 2 (01:42:45):
That's why I found why I loved.

Speaker 8 (01:42:47):
I had no idea what Ozzie looked like other than
the cover of the album until the show come out,
and then that that hooked me.

Speaker 2 (01:42:55):
I was in. I was in.

Speaker 5 (01:42:58):
But if you had not I ever seemed like the
MTV or VH one music videos. But I don't think
y'all had that kind of cable or anything we did
when I was growing up. So, I mean I was
glued to MTV and v.

Speaker 8 (01:43:08):
Yeah, I was when I turned thirteen. The summer I
was almost fourteen, we got city water run to our
house and we got cable that same summer. Yeah, so
I actually got an indoor bathroom an MTV the same
same shum.

Speaker 5 (01:43:26):
That's how like the country Daniel actually is like for
a long time, they did not have indoor plumbing.

Speaker 2 (01:43:31):
No, I had an outhouse. I was fourteen, thirteen, fourteen
years old, and so I had an awakening that summer.

Speaker 5 (01:43:40):
Right.

Speaker 8 (01:43:41):
So anyways, uh, I loved Ozzie from the from the
TV show, and I'll tell you what following his career
throughout and other people that's been you know, Johnny Cash
comes to mind the way he edited right behind You,
and he released that last album, which I think is
his best work ever. Ozzy went out like you could

(01:44:06):
not have written a story.

Speaker 2 (01:44:08):
Better than.

Speaker 5 (01:44:10):
That last concert too.

Speaker 8 (01:44:12):
So we all know two weeks before his death he
had Back to the Beginning concert. It was a charity
event that honored Black Sabbath and Azsi and had multiple
groups come out and sing and do these tribute songs
and all that, and then Ozzie comes out he sings
as well.

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
Well.

Speaker 8 (01:44:33):
Before that concert, he stopped taking all his medication, all
his painkillers. He wasn't taking anything because he wanted to
be clear minded so he could remember the words and
he could he could perform, which means his Parkinson's and
his pain level was so bad he had to sit.
He couldn't get up to do anything. He had to
sit in that chaired entire concert to do and he played.

(01:44:57):
He's well, he's saying he didn't play anything.

Speaker 2 (01:45:00):
But there's that one video and I shared it of
him performing Mama, I'm Coming Home and Zach Wall's playing,
you know, his bullsy guitar right in front of him,
and I love Zach Wallton and I ain't going to
I ain't lying.

Speaker 8 (01:45:16):
I cried listening to that, and yes, his vocals, some
people's isolated his vocals and you can hear how rough
his voice sounded, and I think that makes it beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:45:28):
I really do. We'll do so if you get a chance,
look it up.

Speaker 8 (01:45:35):
I know that the Back to the Beginnings concert will
be turned into a movie basically, and that they're going
to release next year, early next year or maybe later
this year.

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
I can't.

Speaker 8 (01:45:45):
I think he said February for some reason, but coming
up they're going to make it available and you can
rest assured. I'm going to be watching that and buy
that if I can, because that, to me was a
I'm not big on celebrity death, but that concert and
that story of him going out on his own terms
and doing it that way.

Speaker 5 (01:46:06):
Yeah, you said that, you thought that he knew it
was coming, and so that's why he wanted to do
it this way.

Speaker 2 (01:46:12):
No band was allowed to take any money.

Speaker 8 (01:46:15):
That all went to charities for Parkinson's research, and the
amount of the star power that came.

Speaker 2 (01:46:22):
Out to honor him, and just a testament to Ozzy Osbourne. Yeah,
and his name's John.

Speaker 8 (01:46:30):
But he again, just a powerful moment and I encourage
you all to look that up if you can.

Speaker 5 (01:46:37):
I think the only, I mean my only celebrity death
that ever affected me that bad was Robin Williams, but
kind of for the same reasons. But like Rig's mentioning, like,
once you grow up and you see these characters and
he plays and especially I know when I was a kid,
my parents divorced when I was ten years old. So
his answer to the little Girl's letter at the end

(01:46:59):
of his is the out fire and everything when he's
talking about divorce, like that really affected me as a kid, right,
But that's really the only celebrity death that I can
think of that has affected me that badly for sure.
And even with all of this going on, I've said,
somebody needs to check on Anthony Hawkins and Stephen King.

Speaker 2 (01:47:16):
Yeah, I see people saying they need to rap Willie
Nelson and Bubba.

Speaker 5 (01:47:22):
I mean, I know everybody gives me crap for Stephen King,
but again, this man has influenced my imagination since I
was six years old.

Speaker 1 (01:47:29):
Daniel, just for you, just for you, I'm risking another
season desist.

Speaker 2 (01:47:44):
Brand those flavorite party I swear man, I love it,
love him. Thank you. Rick Hopefully he didn't play too much, but.

Speaker 1 (01:47:57):
I kind of playing softly in the background. I didn't
want to turn it up to the turn part. I'm
hoping they didn't notice. But even if I get another letter,
what are they going to do? I have ass capin BM.

Speaker 2 (01:48:04):
I know I didn't notice.

Speaker 8 (01:48:08):
It played in the background quietly, but I wasn't sure
if I had turned something on by mistake.

Speaker 2 (01:48:13):
Thank you now, if that wasn't bad enough for this week.
Right behind him comes.

Speaker 8 (01:48:25):
My My Childhood in Red and the album.

Speaker 2 (01:48:33):
Going Back.

Speaker 5 (01:48:33):
That was a big part of my childhood too, because
you know, me and my brother were big wrestling fans
and my kids.

Speaker 8 (01:48:38):
Now, there's some people that give him a bad time
in the industry for some comments he made, which I
give him a pass on because it was open conversation
with some people that he thought he could trust, and
they turned it into something racial. Even some of the
black wrestlers that know him, they're even on defending him, like, no,

(01:48:59):
it's not watching taking ass.

Speaker 2 (01:49:02):
It's not pretty. Yeah, but it's also the situation the
people he was talking to and all that.

Speaker 5 (01:49:09):
Like we always said context.

Speaker 1 (01:49:12):
Well, just to get from some perspective, because I kind
of know the angle where this is coming from. So
I used to my best man at my second wedding
was Jewish. Well technically he is Jewish because he's still alive,
but he also was like my second on one of
my properties. He was he was my post he was
the post commander, so he was the guy that was
in charge when I wasn't out there because I'd come
by on the patrol routes and stuff. And there was

(01:49:33):
one night that and keep in mind he's Jewish, he
starts telling me some of the worst Holocaust jokes I've
ever heard, like how can you fit six million Jews
in a Olkswagen in the astray? So once I so,
once he started, you know, I'm all uncomfortable, like the
first couple of times. So then we're in We're just

(01:49:55):
sitting there one night and said, and I can say
this now because I'm not in out of a radio
or anything. But it was slow. So he starts cracking jokes.
He's like, you know, it's okay for you to crack
jokes back, right. So that's the whole reason I started
doing this, because it's just it's just dumb, how seriously
everybody takes things. So it is so it was just
us and we're just back and forth saying the worst

(01:50:17):
jokes that we could think of. And I'm like, dude,
if anybody hears this, they're gonna think we're both like
just major assholes. And and that's that's kind of what
was happening in some of this stuff is it's just
it's just people being stupid with each other. And then
somebody overhears it, Well, he's a racist and he said this, dude,
how many I grew I grew like my entire like

(01:50:38):
my teenage years. My entire job after school was to
see how pissed off I could make my friends.

Speaker 2 (01:50:45):
We did.

Speaker 1 (01:50:46):
We did the your mama jokes, we did your house
sucks jokes, we did all of them. So we grew
up at a different time where people just talk shit
about each other, not because we were pissed off at
each other, but especially for guys, if we're shit talking,
it's because we like you. Women if we're talking, they
want to stab you.

Speaker 5 (01:51:06):
Yeah, exactly. I actually heard a really good Bill Cosby
one the other day. What a Bill Cosby and Santa
Claus have in common? They won't come if you're awake bad,
But I cackled when I heard it because it was
a video, and I'll have to see if I can
find it again because y'all would love it because I

(01:51:29):
think it was one of those things like that, the
trying not to laugh challenge or whatever. So the woman
who was telling it, there was a black woman telling it.
She gets to laugh and everything, but then she starts
like singing the song and I swear I'm just losing
it at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:51:45):
So, hey, Rick, do you have a show coming on
after us?

Speaker 1 (01:51:49):
Yes, sir, we do judge the position and thinking of
Triumphant Return Another and a half Power again, and we're
going to be discussing shadow.

Speaker 5 (01:51:55):
People, cool shadow people.

Speaker 8 (01:51:57):
So everybody stay tuned for that because that's gonna be
pretty interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:52:01):
That'll be pretty awesome. So I want to wrap up
with Hogan before we run out of time.

Speaker 8 (01:52:05):
Sure, I grew up a rowdy, roddy Popper fan. That
was my man, me too, And what made Popper great
being a heel, a villain the bad guy was you
have to have a good guy that's just as dynamic
to counterbat counterbalancing, right, same thing with a Marvel movie.

(01:52:26):
You got to have a good protagonist and a great
good antagonist that worked together.

Speaker 2 (01:52:31):
Hulk Hogan was always the protagonist.

Speaker 8 (01:52:35):
He was until the NW old days, but he was
the good guy to my favorite Popper's bad guy. And
now when it comes to entering performances, when it comes
to the things that created your memories, those big moments

(01:52:55):
like WrestleMania three, when he body slams a giant, the
interviews on Piper Pitt, when Andre turns Heill because up
to that point he'd been a face. He turns Hill
on Piper's Pit against Hogan, which makes Hogan the world's
greatest babyface ever because Andre just turned against him, right,

(01:53:18):
So that moment is one of those pivotal things in
all of sports entertainment, And to me, Hulk Hogan has
to be number one on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling
because of what he did for wrestling to bring it
into the mainstream. You mentioned a Rocky movie. He brought

(01:53:39):
wrestling to the forefront. There's videos of him on not Letterman,
Johnny Carson, Andre as well. But they turned what is
supposed to be a back Ali Gymnasium dark room match,
He'll Billy Ford and he brings it into Maine. You

(01:54:03):
wouldn't have the rock Dwayne Johnson starring movies without Paul Cogan.

Speaker 2 (01:54:08):
You just the.

Speaker 1 (01:54:10):
Funny thing is, but I think it was Vince's dad
was pissed at him over that movie because he was
he was he was supposed to be somewhere else, and
he's like, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna go through these
scenes in this movie for a little for a day
or so and then all head down there. He's like, no,
you you're either gonna come back and do these matches

(01:54:30):
are your fire?

Speaker 8 (01:54:31):
So he's like, okay, exactly. Yeah, that's the things like
Haul Cogan, Terry Bulett. He had such a mind for
the sport that he knew what he was doing wasn't
just good for him, but for all of wrestling.

Speaker 2 (01:54:44):
And Vince Senior, Yeah, Vince Senior.

Speaker 8 (01:54:47):
Eventually he sees this with Hogan too, and then he
he does agree that, hey, that was a rock call.

Speaker 2 (01:54:52):
Eventually. Now, now Hogan does go on to make other movies. Uh.

Speaker 8 (01:55:00):
I think it was called Thunderbeach or something like that,
and our TV show I think was Thunderbach But.

Speaker 5 (01:55:06):
That title track so much for Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:55:09):
And they were B level movies, you know, Rowdy Rodney Popper.
He has some cult iconic movies they never make top
tier like Dwayne Johnson.

Speaker 2 (01:55:17):
Now he's in some top tier movies. Yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (01:55:23):
Bubble Gum and kick Ass and them all out of
Bubble Gum.

Speaker 2 (01:55:26):
Yep. Again, that's routed Rodney Popper.

Speaker 8 (01:55:29):
And that is one of the most iconic lines quoted
from a movie that's forty something years old now probably
pushing years old, and people have that's never even seen
that movie quote those lines. And it's the same time
if you see hawk Ogan, people who don't even know

(01:55:49):
Hogan as a wrestler recognize, oh, that's all coke. You've
got people who are the same thing with Ozzy at
the concert. You've seen teenagers crying as Ozzie was singing.
You see kids now who has never seen Hokogan wrestle
in real life, wearing his outfits, tearing your T shirts off,

(01:56:09):
immulating Hawkogan. And I was one of them, you know,
So to me, Lesion, Hogan was even bigger than Ossy.

Speaker 1 (01:56:20):
Yeah, that one hurt, and that was my brother.

Speaker 5 (01:56:24):
Did a lot of the tearing of the T shirts
and everything pissed my mom off something fierce. Oh my god,
she was like, stop tearing your.

Speaker 8 (01:56:30):
Clothes, and you know, you see unfortunately a lot of
people making it political because Hogan came out in support
of Trump this past few years, and so a lot
of people's coming out against him politically, and it's been
some really ugly stuff online.

Speaker 5 (01:56:43):
But of course, anytime you support Trump and everything, these
people lose their mind.

Speaker 2 (01:56:48):
But he he's so much more than that. He's so
much more than a MAGA movement. He's so much more
than a wrestler.

Speaker 5 (01:56:56):
I mean, he was a good showman.

Speaker 2 (01:56:58):
I hate to say, I hate to say.

Speaker 8 (01:57:01):
You know, I don't use the word hero ever, but
a childhood hero for me and for millions and millions
the Hull comaniacs around the world.

Speaker 5 (01:57:12):
I mean, he wasn't my brother's favorite wrestler, but he
was up there like Tom Five.

Speaker 8 (01:57:16):
That's what I'm saying again, Rowdy, Roddy Popper, Jad Snake Roberts,
those are my favorite wrestlers. But Hull Hogan was still
the man if he came out, just like wed Rick Flair,
if they came out.

Speaker 2 (01:57:29):
I did not.

Speaker 5 (01:57:30):
Miss it, yeah, icon oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:57:35):
Just he transcended the sport.

Speaker 8 (01:57:38):
So RAB just wanted to say something about Ozzie and
about Hogan because I know a lot of.

Speaker 2 (01:57:43):
People my age really had a rough week this week. Yeah,
and the worst part for us personally we took some
time off here in July, is that those deaths were
not even close to the worst death in our family
we put. We had to put our dog Ditzie down last.

Speaker 5 (01:58:03):
Thursday, very sudden kidney failure.

Speaker 8 (01:58:05):
Yeah, so we had a I had a rough go
with some deaths this last week.

Speaker 5 (01:58:09):
Yeah, it's not been it's not been really a great month. Like, yeah,
it was my birthday and everything on the eleventh, but
that's kind of really the bright spot of this month.

Speaker 2 (01:58:19):
Oh yeah, but.

Speaker 8 (01:58:23):
Yeah, I just wanted to say something since it's right
in the news and he meant so much to me
and so many other people.

Speaker 5 (01:58:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:58:31):
Absolutely, I don't know, it's just stuck in my head,
you know, but basically what I I guess I'll just
go ahead and started eating the show, wrapping it up.
We've already done our I memorial. I've already had my
shameless personal half hour. But I want to just end

(01:58:51):
it up by saying, you know, thank y'all for joining
us tonight on Front for Friends.

Speaker 2 (01:58:56):
It'says always y'all.

Speaker 8 (01:58:58):
Remember to try not to end up on an episode
the front Ports friends.

Speaker 2 (01:59:01):
That's coming up.

Speaker 5 (01:59:02):
So yeah, y'all, just be smart. Don't end up on
my show.

Speaker 2 (01:59:05):
Be smart, man, and remember to all our little front
Ports friends that maniacs out there to train hard, say
you prayers and eat you vitamins because you never know
when these twenty four inch pythons are going to run
wild on you. Brother?

Speaker 1 (01:59:23):
Would that make them front Ports frenzy.

Speaker 2 (01:59:25):
X, front Ports Frindsi Acts. I like it. I like it,
but that all right.

Speaker 1 (01:59:31):
Remind folks where they can find you real quick before
we change gears.

Speaker 5 (01:59:34):
Yeah, I'm you can find me on ex at bumpstock Barbie.
I have a few other pages of baking page, I
have a plant page, and we have our show page.
Yeah all right. For tweety too, I have my author bio.
I have my my author bio with all the links
for every tweety story I've written so far right there

(01:59:55):
in my profile.

Speaker 2 (01:59:57):
Yep.

Speaker 8 (01:59:58):
And I'm really easy bumpsed up on it, and that's
really all I did.

Speaker 1 (02:00:03):
Nobody needs to hear how easy you are, sir. That's
a conversation for you and heard. Hang out for juxtaposition
coming up. Next live right here on Klaren Radio. We've
got Ordnance Jay Packard waiting in the wings, so hang out.
We'll be back in a couple of minutes.