FPF 2/15/25: The One about Cults, part 1

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yes, they're apparently trying to do this on my phone

(01:00):
or on the computer and trying to check the just
the chat on my phone was not working.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Tell we're still trying to work out some kings. I
have zero producers tonight, so we have no idea what
we're doing. Yeah, Daniels trying to tell me to keep

(01:29):
talking to see if he's got the reverb on his phone.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
There's any difference there.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
It sounds fine on my own.

Speaker 5 (01:44):
I don't have it in here.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
So I'm inviting everybody to speak since we're doing a
spaces and everything, So we'll just try to keep it
a little bit tidy instead of talking over each other tonight,
le I.

Speaker 5 (02:01):
Say, we can still kind of work it like hosting
co hosting. People can chime in if they have something
they want I had, or say, instead of big live
chat instead of our normal chat.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yeah, which that'll be fun too.

Speaker 5 (02:15):
So I get my coffee.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
Each other probably where the two phones going.

Speaker 6 (02:25):
Yea, So are y'all gonna are y'all gonna go into
like the difference between a cult and like actual religion, like,
because I feel like that's an important distinction that a
lot of people can't seem to make you know.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Well, I know there's probably gonna be a lot of
my leftist fans that they listen to these, but yeah,
I mean a religion and a cult or are two.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
Different things, like an established religion.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
So I mean this is mainly going out like the
like the Jonestowns, the Heaven's Gates like all that kind
of yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:58):
Family, So I mean I know that, and I think
most people know between like a cult and or religion.
It's just sometimes you know, people there the ones that
get lured a little bit, I think, And that's why
I was saying, like, you know, if if that's something
you have time to address, it would be good to address.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, I mean this is specifically about true crime, so
it's not going to get into any established religion. Established
religions are completely out of this.

Speaker 5 (03:24):
Yes, we all know that. Honest, he's absolutely a cult,
but we're not.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Going to get into I added already as a speaker.
I don't think he's accepted it yet, but he may
have some words already feeling or probably feeling very potashed
right now.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
Yeah, Okay, if Daniel's just going to turn his phone
off and just sit in here with me, then so
come on and he's putting dogs up, that's what you hear.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
But yeah, we'll kind of give this another minute because
this was not how we plan to start this.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
But I couldn't get in touch with either Rick or Jeff.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
So but hopefully we will have our own little board
and everything here soon, so even when they're not free,
we can kind of produce our own shows.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
So hopefully that is coming soon.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, everybody listening so far right now, we're just kind
of waiting for a minute, and we're trying to get established.

Speaker 4 (04:33):
We'll go from there.

Speaker 5 (04:35):
Proud not but that's fine.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yes, I mean, Jeff, I know, can still pull the
spaces and everything, and it'll be available to listen to later.

Speaker 7 (04:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:44):
So and then next week when we do our full show,
we'll kind of just touch back over yeah real.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Previously ad Yeah, because this is going to be a
series now we are actually tonight's just kind of the
intro to it. We're gonna be kind of discussing the
psychology behind leaders and followers of colts and everything, and
then later on in late part.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
Two, three, whatever, and everything will be specific cases.

Speaker 5 (05:09):
See if I can follow the.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
So yeah, at this point, since it's a space is
anyone of you?

Speaker 2 (05:22):
I think I since you all invite to be a
super So if y'all would like to chime in and
like just hang out with us, like it's.

Speaker 5 (05:29):
So so make my intro to invite everybody was gonna
be my standard k l and radio friends, family and freaks,
that kind of thing, you know. But I's gonna also
invite everybody to bring your purple sash, tie up your
Nike tennis shoes and peaky favorite flavor of kool Aid
and come join us.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Oh my gosh, I don't got a word good.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
It's not too soon, but come on.

Speaker 5 (05:53):
Me, and you're not gonna enjoy all we gotta do
to you.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
Yeah, he's gonna mention something that some cults have done.

Speaker 8 (06:00):
So Nick Snia.

Speaker 5 (06:08):
Do the official Thanks y'all for joining us. This is
a front ports for Ends. It's the one about Colts
Part one. It's just a spaces tonight. We have some
technical difficulties trying to get it produced this week, and yes,
next week, not two weeks. We will kind of touch
over what we did tonight, do an official show next week.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, this is actually our off week, but we are
doing every Saturday instead of every other Saturday, since this
is gonna be a series and we don't want to
have to make everybody wait two weeks between episodes.

Speaker 5 (06:42):
So yeah, we'll be moving every Saturday night from seven
to nine pm Central Time, and for the first several
weeks about Colts, but then even when we start picking
up our standard shows, we'll stick on stick to seven
to nine Central Time, I believe.

Speaker 4 (06:57):
Yeah, we're gonna try to do the seven to nine.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Because that'll just be easier than you all keeping up
with which Saturday we're going to do eight ten and
which Saturday we're going to do seven and nine. So
we're gonna shoot for seven and nine just every week
until we're done with Colts.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, seven to nine.

Speaker 5 (07:15):
It seems like it's a good fit for the other
shows and other producers when they do are able to
join us, and so we're thinking it's gonna be a
good fit from now all. Now, I don't know how
long we'll be going week to week or every week.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Well as of right now, it's just the Cult series
that we're going every week.

Speaker 5 (07:33):
Yeah, but that could be four shows, it could be
six shows. We don't know yet.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
It just depends on how it flows, difformation flows.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, because there's a lot of cults that we can cover.
I mean, we've got the big ones. We've got the
Manson family, We've got Jonestown, We've got Heaven's Gate. I mean,
we've got all of these huge ones that we could
take two hours going a deep dive into some of.

Speaker 5 (07:54):
These smaller cults that are scarier than the big cults.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, and we actually do have a small cult that
hopefully maybe by next week I'll have some more information
on because I think that's what we want to do
for part two. Because there is an active cult in
the US right now that is involved in serial murder. Yeah,
they had transgender or cult and Andy know Is, he's
the one that's been covering it and everything, and I

(08:18):
even wrote a twitty article about it and that one.
I'm hoping maybe more information to add to it by
next week.

Speaker 5 (08:25):
Yeah, but it's an active cult right now. They've had
six murders attributed to them. There's open cases, there's people
that's being arrested that will be going to trial for
some of these murders. It's pretty interesting and that'll be
kind of our first official cult that we look at
next week, and we'll probably spend most of the two
hours on that because.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, because I mean that one is very very topical,
and especially with the fact that it is, it would
be classified as a terrorist cult as well because they
are motivated by political, ideological, sociological, not necessarily religious, but
all the other three hits, so that still qualifies as
a terroristic cults.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
The FBI is aware of them, and the FBI is
actually it's an.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
Active, ongoing investigation as of right now.

Speaker 5 (09:12):
So we'll have to be careful with allegedly reported leads
and all that. Hopefully we can get some other guests
on for that show us and is.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Very very busy man, very prominent reporter and journalists and everything.

Speaker 5 (09:27):
Well, we're hoping to at least get a statement from him,
if not.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
Even something that I can read off of, like it'll
it'll still be good because he's the one that's been
kind of breaking this because the mainstream media is not
touching it.

Speaker 5 (09:39):
You know, well they finally are a little bit, but
they're leaving out.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah, but I didn't really follow I mean I followed him.

Speaker 5 (09:48):
I don't really keep up with indeed, No, no, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
Practice practice to learn how to say it with.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Their but he goes by, Yeah, you're very very southern,
and he is Vietnamese American.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
His last name is spelled nng O.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
His handle if you want to kind of keep track
of his reporting on this, his mister Andy no in
g O. Yes, he even had a podcast called The More,
which was his last name.

Speaker 5 (10:16):
So he's got a YouTube by the same name, Okay,
and yeah, it's very well broken down on his YouTube channel.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, he's extraordinarily thorough like I absolutely love him.

Speaker 5 (10:26):
So yeah, he's almost as good looking as Knee and
he might be a little smarter. I don't know, but
he sounds because he's Asian anyways. But anyway, he's a
good guys, easy to watch.

Speaker 8 (10:37):
He is.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
He was actually the reporter that was covering all the
Antifa riots and everything a few years ago, and he
was the one who ended up in the hospital because
they were pouring like concrete into like cups and everything
and throwing it at people. And he actually was hospital
and everything because of the attacks from Antifa, from.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Because it was a rock or from the chemical burn
of the concrete.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
The pictures that were posted and everything. He had blood
and cuts. It was like quick Creek that they were
pouring into these cuts.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
Quick Creek concrete do chemical burn, Yeah, but if it's
hard and that's like being hitting head with a brick.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
You know, he's been a.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Big target and he's been on his X page calling
this the yes because I mean, they are kind of
associated with Antifa.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
She's allowed to have cupcakes to quit it.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
But yeah, he's been covering all of that. But they
do have associations I think with they're on the West
coast over there, kind of where he is.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Well, they started, they're spread out.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
Their move there. They are spreading again, this is an active.

Speaker 5 (11:49):
The last place they're looking for now is North Carolina
and Vermont looking for right now. They started in the
Bay Area, but we'll get into them pretty deep next week.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, all I put in twitch the article and anything
that he has got that's recent we're going to go
through in probably part.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
Two the next episode next week.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
But yes, there is an active cult in the US
right now that is involved in serial murder.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
So that's kind of what inspired this entire series.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
But for the most part, tonight is just going to
be kind of exploring the whole psychological dynamic between a
cult leader and a cult follower.

Speaker 5 (12:29):
Yeah, looking at what makes people. First off, I guess
the charismatic nature of the leaders.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
There is always a charismatic, very dynamic personality.

Speaker 5 (12:43):
And then we'll also look at the kind of person
that would follow.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Them because of it's the thing.

Speaker 5 (12:48):
I don't want to get into being insultive or insensitive
til because they're victims.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
Okay, well think of Okay.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
You remember the movie Phenomenon with John's revolt of like
he gets hit on his birthday.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
Smart it's not really lightning. Yeah, it's a alien thing.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
But okay, you remember I think it's Christmas Sedgwick or
something played his love interests and everything, curly hair, blonde woman,
she made the chairs. And you remember his best friend
said every woman has her chairs or no, he told
his best friend.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Then every woman has her chairs.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Every single person is potentially able to become a follower
of one of these type of leaders, one of these
type of people, because everybody has their.

Speaker 8 (13:45):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Because here us.

Speaker 5 (13:48):
Now that we're talking anyway, chairs.

Speaker 4 (13:55):
Everybody has their chairs.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
You know, you know that's and that immediately and came
to my missing with the computers on the computer, what's
going on? Yeah, hopefully we're still hopefully running right now,
running right now, y'all put.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
Like a little icon if you can still hear it.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Okay, okay, can y'all hear us of Daniel's messing with
my computer now? So we just can't use the computer
throw up like an emoji or something, or expect or
accept the invite to speak that I've sent multiple people
because apparently if I'm doing spaces, I just can't watch

(14:51):
the comments and everything on my computer at the same time.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
So I have no idea if we just cut out
or not.

Speaker 5 (14:57):
Well, we'll just keep talking and me and you'll talk,
and you just continue to train and thought on that
I'll go grat my phone in a better room and
see what we're live or not. But you keep going.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
I say, we got somebody throwing up the waving emoji,
so I think we're still live.

Speaker 5 (15:10):
Yeah, everything all from the computer now, just stick with
a phone.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (15:13):
So phenomenon alt leader or something.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
It was Jill line that every woman has their chairs.
To me, that's every person has their chairs. Every single
person is can be subject to a charismatic cult leader
because they're going to say something that you're going to
connect with they are going to have views and everything
that you do connect with. Yeah, so everybody has their

(15:38):
chair here.

Speaker 5 (15:40):
The reason I think, and Zelda had mentioned it as
we was starting to get around, is you can't talk
about without looking into religion as well. And I'm not
saying religion is to cault. That's separate people who believe that.
But what I am getting to is that human nature
needs leader of some sort. They need that person or

(16:02):
entity or deity to look up to to guide them,
to lead them in a way.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, and that brings me into the psychology of the follower.

Speaker 5 (16:11):
Well then on the as far as the leader, the
cult leader, he knows this, so he plays into that.
Oh h manipulates it because he knows, say, we don't
have to.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
Go in order, we can do followers I.

Speaker 5 (16:23):
Know, but that's the leader understands that too. That's why
they're so successful their manipulations.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
I think as human beings, we have a need for comfort,
for safety, for stability, and we seek that out in others.
That's how we build relationships, whether they be friendships, whether
they be romantic, I mean anything else.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
We can even talk about, like either with Trump.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Or the Democrat, how the people there are factions on
both sides of this who absolutely see these people as
these saviors almost because they're giving them this this sense
of safety, stability and comfort and everything. Those leaders provide
them with a sense of meaning, of belonging, of purpose.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
These leaders also know this too.

Speaker 5 (17:12):
Yeah, that's like you said, that's the religion side of it.
Two people seek out religion because they feel something that's missing. Yes,
and the majority of people find it correctly looking into
religion and going and going into whether it be Christianity
or what have you.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
But the let's say, this is not targeting any religion,
any political figure out.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
We're talking very general.

Speaker 5 (17:33):
Yeah, no denominations or anything like that, no certain political features,
no certain football coaches or anything like that.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
Which is a big thing actually here.

Speaker 5 (17:43):
But what we're saying is that it's it's the seekers
who are looking for something and the vast majority find
it through religion. And that's awesome, that's the way it
should be. But there's some people that get in the
wrong direction, or these leaders. A lot of these leaders
start off as religious cults, yes, so they feed into
that seeking somebody seeking the Christianity, for instance, and they

(18:06):
will twist it as they're doing it.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
I mean, look at the Yahweh ben yaway. He chose
that name for himself, that's what he called himself. And
he did that because you know, Yahweh is the son
of God, you know, and everything, and he said Yahweh
ben yahway, so he was the son of God, of
the son of God.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
He put himself forward as a new mission.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
He claimed himself to be God. Yeah, he didn't do that.

Speaker 5 (18:30):
They won.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
No, this took time.

Speaker 5 (18:32):
Yeah, And that's the way most of these leaders, especially
when they started religious based on they'll start off as
just being like a messenger of God that they have
seen these sights, they have had these visions. We have
one here in Alabama that's not too terrible. It's within
driving distance for us, and he's like rock and roll

(18:55):
Jesus or something crazy stuff like that. But they start
off to saying that, you know, they've been visited by
Jesus or they or whoever, and they've been given this insights,
which it elevates them above a normal human so they
have the authority to lead leaders.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Even that kind of comes after they've gained some kind
of following.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Oh yeah, I mean it takes up steps.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yes, I mean, there's a man named doctor Hart who
is a professor of psychology at Union College, and he said,
they offer a clear, confident vision and assert the superiority
of the group. And that's what people they want, that
sense of belonging. They want that sense of we're.

Speaker 4 (19:33):
The one being right. You know, we're superior, you know
we know the truth. Nobody else knows the truth.

Speaker 5 (19:42):
Yeah, And like I said, it's even in some cases
they start off saying like, hey, we're all searching this together,
We're all in this.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Jim Jones is.

Speaker 4 (19:50):
A perfect of this because.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Jim Jones, like the whole cult following and everything was
actually established in Indiana in nineteen sixty with him. But
he was actually a socialist who inserted himself into the
civil rights movement and then built his following of that.
So like, obviously this is appealing to people at the time,

(20:18):
like you want this communal sense that you know, the
sense of community, you want this sense of righteousness, which
is where the civil rights movement rightly came in. But
he played both of those to set himself up as
the supreme leader basically Jim Jones, and that's like I mean,

(20:42):
he wanted to create a utopia and in the mid seventies,
that's when he moved his followers all through Guyana and
on November eighteenth of nineteen seventy eight, led his followers
in a mass suicide which took the lives of nine
hundred and nine people, a third of which were children. Oh,
I mean it was Mary, yes, and I mean at

(21:04):
the end of that we all know what. He took
his own life, but not even through cinid the way
that he made his followers do it. He wanted it
quick side is not quick. It is extraordinarily painful.

Speaker 8 (21:16):
Oh, he didn't use kool Aid. It was Flavor aided,
so it wasn't Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
I mean not not the brand kool Aid and everything,
but it was essentially like a generic brand of that.

Speaker 8 (21:27):
Stuff.

Speaker 5 (21:30):
You know, you know, the makers of Flavor was like men.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
Well and now.

Speaker 7 (21:38):
Some of them.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
Okay, look at the hit that Nike took after Heaven's
Gate too.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
It didn't last long, No, it didn't.

Speaker 4 (21:44):
Still, they did take a hit at that book. That
was the only thing the videos it was visible because
they cover themselves up.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
However, they actually didn't pay much of a hit.

Speaker 5 (21:53):
They had to stop making those hues and people were
throwing a fit wanted to buy.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
See, that's insane to me, Like to me, that's all
almost another Okay, well maybe I can't say that's insane.

Speaker 5 (22:05):
You can say it, but you're about to change your perspective.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
No, because I'm that weird person like that kind of
and I hate to call it memory, but that's what
it is by definition. There's a part of me that
still would say, Okay, yeah, I kind of want it,
like I would love to have one of Gasey's paintings.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, and there's that that's not uncommon.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
I don't think it's not normal. I don't think either.

Speaker 8 (22:32):
Well, I mean you want one of Jeffrey Dahmer's urn
so yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (22:40):
Mean, yeah, yeah, it's definitely that same kind of mindset
for those those types of sneakers and things like that.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
But yeah, I wouldn't say, nikis we took a hit,
you know.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
But but I mean I don't want like I would
never say it would bother me to have actually a
set shoes that were on one of the victims, Like
that would bother the crab.

Speaker 5 (23:00):
I wouldn't want actually on the But now if they
had a pair of shues in one of those purple
stars or whatever. I don't think I was like hanging
in the closet because Jim didn't show up the day
of the of the arrival of the spaceship. You know,
the held by.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Comment that was Apple White, not Jim.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
I was just using names as the guy who didn't show.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
Up, bab what was I don't even remember his first name.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
They went by like he was like D and she
was T or something.

Speaker 8 (23:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
I mean, we're definitely going to cover all of these calls.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
Homestown. We're going to do a deep dive, Heaven's Gate,
We're going to do a deep dive. That's why we're
this is the start of a.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Series tonight is just thats basically talking about how these
cults basically get established, just.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
Kind of looking at mainly the leaders their psychology of them,
I guess, yeah, and then that of the victims that wind.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Up because a lot of people they like to say, well, It'sockholm.

Speaker 5 (24:00):
Syndrome in a way, and I think that Stockholm syndrome
is kind of has become this kind of cover all
this term for a bunch of these kind of mental
issues or whatever. Stockholm syndrome at its core, when is
regionally coined. Even then it was flawed and it's by
the way, and we can do a whole show on that.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
That's what I think We're going to do a show
on that, for sure.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
But a lot of people say, well, it's the form
of Stockholm syndrome, and it is because the form of it,
because the definition of Stockholm syndrome has become so broad
and fluid, So it's not really fair because we say
Stockholm syndrome. To me, it's like it's the kidnapp person
who falls for the kidnapper that kind of well, it's
not even that.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
They fall for them, it's just that they get so
attached to them that as a servile instinct. It's it's
not quite an affection for them, but they kind of
start seeing them as their own family and somebody who
will protect them and shelter them and all this kind
of other stuff.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
Like it's because it is a survival instinct.

Speaker 5 (25:04):
I think it could be argued to form of affection,
but it's more of a it could be a dependency
as well.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
It's kind of as.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
Well, like I said, more of a survival thing.

Speaker 5 (25:11):
But even again, when we do the show on stalk
on syndrome. I think y'all may be interested in my
view on that.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
But yeah, that's gonna be a very deep dive.

Speaker 5 (25:19):
But that's going that's kind of the framework that we'll
talk about the cult members and victims, because they would
they would kind of be following that unbrell off what
people would would associate with Stockholm syndrome. I think.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
I mean there are we will cover in specific cults
in like the separate parts that followed this, the ones
that have tried to get away and have tried to
get other members to like kind of see the light basically,
and yeah, you know say hey, I'm trying to save you,
we need to get out of this, and they do,
but those other people stay sometimes. I mean sometimes this

(25:55):
is even like mothers and their children.

Speaker 5 (25:57):
You know, there's another huge cult that's active too that
we can look into scientology.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
Yeah, that would be a good one to do.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
I mean, it follows the top of the religion, but
it's not.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Now that's absolutely o cult. I mean if you actually
look into the core of the science scientology, like origins.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
That's wasn't it missing that come out of it? That
whole show about her No.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
I forget her name now, Yeah, and I said it
debor missing is the red rum, Will and Grace so
raging liberal anyways.

Speaker 8 (26:30):
So what I'm getting from you guys is you're saying
that you don't accept Lord Zebu as your lord and savior.

Speaker 4 (26:36):
No, absolutely, but I mean it is amazing.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
The the dynamic here between the leader and the followers
is very very interesting to me because mainly because of
the leaders, because you have to be this charismatic, dynamic
person to be able to at least speak to people
in a way that they're.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
Not going to say you're insane.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
So you have to be able to kind of couch
this in terms that they can relate to, that they
can understand.

Speaker 5 (27:09):
I saw one where they were talking about they would
approach the one in broad terms like don't you feel alone?

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Don't you feel right?

Speaker 5 (27:21):
But those are things that every human with emotions has
spelt at some point, So they're going to They may
speak to a room full of a thousand people and
they may only get ten of them to buy into it,
but that's the start.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Okay, And you think take those ten people out of
that thousand, and I'm trying to this is going to
be kind of a stream of thought type of deal.
Think of a bowl of fruit. You know, one fruit
in that bowl goes rotten, and it is going to
speed up the rotting process in all of the rest
of the fruit.

Speaker 5 (27:53):
To the ones that's touching it.

Speaker 7 (27:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, and then that's going to spread to the ones
that are touching that one.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
So that's how this.

Speaker 5 (28:00):
So those ten people, what you're getting at those ten people,
when they leave there and they go back to their
normal lives, they're gonna interact with other people that have
honestly had the same kind of insecurities. So their nobels
bring in at least one other person, and then that's
where your growth starts.

Speaker 4 (28:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
This, I mean, it's kind of the ultimate pyramid scheme,
and it does have the one person at the very top.

Speaker 8 (28:24):
At least for Jim Jones, I know, part of the
way he got people to join him was through he
was very big civil rights movement.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
Uh yeah, that's what I mentioned earlier.

Speaker 8 (28:35):
Yeah, And what people don't really know that I didn't
know this until I looked up more like, I looked
at a documentary on him, and basically he was apparently
like the first like interracial adoption person, Like he adopted
a black kid, and that he was the first one
to do that in his state.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah, I think so he started out what was it California,
I think it was I don't know Indiana started, but
I think he did move around before they ended up
settling quote unquote town.

Speaker 5 (29:07):
So I know he was extremely poor and when he
was born.

Speaker 7 (29:12):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
I think that was kind of where the socialism communism
aspect of his what would you even call it is
preaching I guess came from where everybody worked together and
helped one another and everything, which on a very small
scale that does work.

Speaker 5 (29:30):
I mean, it was also where his greed began to
grow because once he started getting out of that hole
that he was in.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
More, yeah, I mean, and that's exactly how that works.
I Mean, once if you have started more and then
you send money, that is more of a comfort thing,
I think, because you realize you're not ever gonna need
for anything or want for anything again, so you want
more and more and more of that just to kind
of build that us in obscurity. But I think he
also played on that and his followers because they were

(30:02):
also like low income.

Speaker 5 (30:03):
People to start with.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
Yeah, but I mean, no one joins a cult. Knowing
that it's a cult.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
It's essentially a recruitment process like you mentioned, like this
person who has listened to this speech and this sermon.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
Almost I don't know.

Speaker 5 (30:19):
I think the people that wouldn't lee go to the
Ohio State University notes a cult, but they still.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
He has a thing about Ohio. So no, like you
don't know you're going a cult, like thinking this is
a cult. I know it's a cult. I'm joining anyway,
you don't do that.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
This is a very This.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Is typically a fairly slow procedural thing, Like it's going
to take steps, Like you're gonna hear that first quote
unquote sermon and you're gonna think.

Speaker 4 (30:49):
Oh, well, they had some good ideas. I'll come back again.

Speaker 5 (30:51):
And hear them speak, and that is going to speak
to you and hit and answer questions and alleviate fears
that you had.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
And then you're going to realize, hey, I want to
hear that again.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
And they're going to keep going back to that person,
and then you're gonna start telling your friends your family, Hey,
you know you're feeling these.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
Same things that I am. This guy is speaking to
that or even girl.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
There are going to be some female lead cults that
we're going to touch on later, but they actually tend
to be way more ruthless, I think than the guys,
at least as far as daily practice.

Speaker 7 (31:25):
You think about it as far as women go, would
you consider how a bunch of these men sort of
attached to women in the uh, you know, on the internet,
to certain websites and turn into their kind of I mean,
you know what I mean, you know, yeah, I don't
know what the terms of service are about what I

(31:45):
can say or whatever, but you know what, I'm.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Getting that on spaces and at least with us, like
we're brutally honest, so say like speak yeah, well all.

Speaker 7 (31:54):
Right, well you know, I'm not here to shame sex
workers or anything like that. But the what the leadership
that women wind up having over men of that nature that.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
Are really into that.

Speaker 9 (32:04):
It's spend thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars just
giving women money for you know, good morning messages and
pictures of their feet or whatever.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
And well, and again that goes back into the follower mentality,
like these these people are feeling insecure or lovely right
in some kind of way, and this person offers.

Speaker 8 (32:25):
Them a solution to that, I go, Yeah, did you
hear about the hell like a disproportionate a number of
subscribers to only fans or married men.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
Yeah, no, I have heard that. I mean, and it
would it would almost make sense.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
I think at least probably half of the men in
the US, at least over the age of eighteen, you
could probably say at least half of them are married.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
I want to know where he was headed with the
six worker.

Speaker 7 (32:51):
Yeah, you're talking about I mean, it just leads this
It in forms this group of people that are just
pointlessly loyal to this person and who doesn't really they're
not really leading them anywhere. They're not really leading in
towards the end result of a goal like you know,
Waco or anything like that. But they just know they
just stay loyal to that person, and that person, like

(33:12):
you said, Laura knows that they know that they know
exactly what to do to keep them loyal. They know
exactly what to do to keep them attached to them.
And those men, you know, they their dependence grows on
the whole thing. Their behavior changes on the whole thing.
It's their behavior, you know. I mean, you got to
feel free to tell me if I'm wrong, but you know,
the behaviors can lead into the same behavior that addicts

(33:35):
have because it is an addiction in some ways, and
and it just mirrors like behavior in a lot of ways,
not so much that an OnlyFans work is like, ah,
I can't wait to make people kill themselves in a
tent for me or whatever. But they are they do
understand that the power over there, whatever whatever it is

(33:56):
they use for leadership, whatever, whether it's.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Well, I think it's extraordinarily similar. And yes, you did
touch on that. Daniel is actually like he's been listening
and everything, and he wants to what.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
It is is.

Speaker 5 (34:09):
You know, they're giving these guys something that they want.
It's something that they are out there seeking. And I
know he mentioned that a lot of them being married
men too. It's they're getting something for that is lacking,
that is lacking somewhere.

Speaker 7 (34:22):
That yeah, that's exactly I said, what they perceive to be.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Like yeah, no, no, no, you're you're good.

Speaker 5 (34:29):
And it's just it's easier cause I can I all
I gotta do is do this. She'll tell me or
show me exactly what I want and then I can
go by my way. And that does become addictive feeling.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Right that releases the endorphins, all the you know, the
happy chemicals.

Speaker 5 (34:43):
All all I gotta do is light this cigarette and
puff on it. I'm gonna get the feeling good the
same thing they're doing. All I gotta do is take
the drink, send this ten dollars over to this woman
that she's going to show me your feet or whatever
it happens. They're they're getting something, they're seeking something, and
then they're getting it immediately exactly what they want from

(35:04):
that person with very little effort.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
Like Lord Sating justin. It's that instant gratification part.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
They have to put forth no effort into achieving this.

Speaker 5 (35:12):
And that's how these uh to fall into a cult
in the traditional cult sense. It starts that way. It's
very simple to get you know that that bait hang
on that hook is really easy to reach to their box.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
That's why to me, colts are so scary because, like
like I said, everybody has their chairs, everybody has that
bait on that hook.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
A single person has this. We all think, no, we
wouldn't never for a Jim Jones or a y'all wait then,
y'all way, we would never do that. We would never
fall for a David Koresh.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
There is a there is a possibility that, yes, if
they offer the right thing, yes, you could absolutely fall
into this.

Speaker 8 (35:55):
And you know, I mean obviously when we're talking about
I mean, sex cults are a thing and they've been
very popular even since antiquity. So what was that was.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
The weird one that went around there for a few years.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, it wasn't even spelled nexium.

Speaker 8 (36:15):
It was like n x.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
I don't know, it was weird. I'll have to I'll
have to drive. Drug could be no nexium. The thing
actually did.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Fall into the drug, it's not.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
I'm not talking like the reflux medicine or whatever it is. Yes,
I mean, yes, Nexium was a sex cult. That's the
one that turned the mind. So that's why I mentioned.

Speaker 8 (36:44):
Well it would you say like groupies can can be
sort of like follower sort of cult a personality of someone.

Speaker 7 (36:54):
Get a chance.

Speaker 8 (36:54):
I'm sorry, go ahead, sorry, because like, for example, you
have high paying athletes, these famous people like NBA players
will constantly say it like they'll go this big tour
bus and they travel around they have like they stop
in any city, they get twenty or thirty girls that
come in into their right us. So I mean that

(37:15):
could be like sort of a cult like cult of
personalities because they're basically.

Speaker 4 (37:20):
And okay you just said it, I would say that
it's cult like, Yes, that is.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
I mean they are absolutely putting this person on a pedestal.
This person is trying they think can give them what
they are seeking.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
And yeah, very very could.

Speaker 7 (37:32):
Yeah I would. I'm way into that a little bit too.
I uh so I've spent some time as a professional
touring musician now a musician. Uh but how did be
so lucky? Man? But uh, the particular thing is a
little different. I think that you're partially correct, but there's

(37:52):
an added dynamic to that in that there are also
quote unquote groupies that do the same thing that you know,
will hold themselves around an athlete or whatever, but they
were actually victimizing the athlete or the the uh the
musician or what the performer or whatever it is. They're
you know, they're hey, Hey, I'm I come around all
your shows. Look how I dress? Why don't you buy

(38:13):
me a Jaguar? You know? There it goes both ways
with that.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
I can yeah, I can actually kind of see this
because I think that the the other end of the
groovy aspect is also somebody who is seeking something. This
other person, this groupie is saying, hey, I can give
this to you.

Speaker 4 (38:31):
So they're taking advantage of that. They're both taking advantage.

Speaker 7 (38:33):
Of each other. Yeah, that's exactly right, Laura. That's that's
kind of getting that. It's a little symbiotic in that way,
is uh. But I think I think to his point,
I forget uh your voldeltremite. Uh all right. What he's
saying is that there are girls that are like Goata
love Whoever Noah Kahan or whatever it is.

Speaker 8 (38:54):
Get.

Speaker 7 (38:54):
They'll do anything to get around him. And they've got
them all plastered in their rooms, and they all the
memorabilia and they'll do anything. You get the hair for
the you know, the.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
Definitely definitely very cold.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
But again, these people like the the object of the
obsession there, it's not actually I don't This is why
I don't think that it falls into the actual like
definition of a cult, because this person's not.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
Actively trying to get these people to.

Speaker 5 (39:22):
Follow the potential to like, for instance, like if Tedylor
Swift decided she wanted to have a cult, she'd have
the biggest cult in the world.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
It's ridiculous, especially.

Speaker 8 (39:32):
With younger like women love her for some reason. Yeah,
I mean, I mean the favorite person that we all
know that was known for talking about groups as Trump.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, and he it's ironically very like nobody understands that.
You know, he's talking about when you're rich and famous,
these types of women let you do these things.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
And he's exactly right.

Speaker 5 (39:59):
I don't think I see is the face that's what
it's saying here. That's kind of what you're talking about.
You know, they're both using.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
Each other exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
I mean, these women are you know, seeking Trump because
he's rich and famous and everything, and they're letting him
do whatever the fuck he wants to to him. Yeah,
So it's it's obviously he was not talking about actual
set all. He was literally saying, when you're rich and famous,
they let you do it, which is yeah, he's a

(40:26):
hundred talking about groupies and the links that they are
willing to basically debase themselves for.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
You got a good you got a good example.

Speaker 5 (40:35):
Right now. That's all over the internet. Look at Bill
Belichick's wife or girlfriend.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
Oh god, I saw those pictures.

Speaker 5 (40:40):
Yeah, I mean that's the most that's that's the most
high profile one right now that you can look at that.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
Yeah, we call them gold diggers.

Speaker 8 (40:50):
I mean, is since he's on the news more lately,
you thinks is starting to colt with a bunch of
women to have his beauties.

Speaker 4 (40:59):
I don't know, a really good question, because I think
Elon Musk actually could be a.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Very very charismatic cult leader. And I mean look at
the following the you know, there's streams on left and right.

Speaker 4 (41:13):
I mean, I can you know.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
I can pick out Democrats and everything that do this too,
but especially right now, just because with Elon Musk and everything,
there are people that I've seen people online talking about,
you know, this is our savior, this is the person
that's gonna you know, save America and everything.

Speaker 4 (41:30):
They're setting him up almost a messiah. Like it's weird,
it's kind of insane, Like I'm flabbergasted.

Speaker 7 (41:37):
By the Yeah, I think Lord. Two, from what I
can tell from what I know about y'all is that
naturally we are, you know, if our group is together,
we are somewhat skeptical of somebody that has a lot
of power, naturally, like we want to go, hey, who
are you? And who the fuck do you think you
are to tell me what I can and can't do.

(41:58):
Let me just check your I want to check your
and make sure that everything is sunky dory here. And
I think that lets us be a little more objective
and stand outside the box and look into that sort
of leadership sect and go the hell is going on
in here?

Speaker 2 (42:13):
I mean, I think it's act noting that you and
I butted heads like extremely when we first heard. Sure,
like you and I are like diametrically opposed when it
comes to like political and social issues.

Speaker 7 (42:24):
Some yeah, I mean we align on guns quite a bit,
but yeah, but the point is like.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
Yeah, but I mean for the most part, like on abortion,
on Trump and everything and all that kind of stuff,
Like you and I are very very opposed, and we
have had.

Speaker 7 (42:37):
Very arguments we have. But the thing is just to
analyze that a little bit. I think it's because you
were skeptical of my assertiveness on something that is the
opposite of how you feel, and I was skeptical of
your assertiveness on something that I felt was the opposite
of how I feel, And we naturally were never going

(42:57):
to align on that, never like that moment, like in
the way that it was before. To me, that plays
into how I don't I just don't just don't pave
to to authority that way. And I don't think you
guys do either, because we.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
We definitely don't.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
I mean I think I don't know. Yeah, already still listening.
If you see ordinance package in there, he has said
it best. And this is like mine and daniel stance
on the government, like we want a government so small
that we can drown it.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
Yes, that's what we want.

Speaker 7 (43:29):
Yes. And the cult, I don't even cut her off
floor the cult, like, uh, aspects of both sides are
just absolutely it's it's cringe. I don't know, it's hard
to describe to me. At the very my reaction is
cringe at the very beginning. It's like, dude, and I.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
Spend most of my days when I first log into Twitter.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
I'm looking at all of this because I follow a
lot of Democrats, of a lot of Republicans.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
I follow, you know, a ton of people.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
And I'm sitting her, scrolling through my news speed and everything,
and thinking, all.

Speaker 7 (43:59):
Of these people, right, is there anybody in your anybody,
anybody to weigh in on this? Is there anybody in
your life under it? Doesn't matter what the following is,
whether it be politics or racing, or football or wrestling
or music or it doesn't matter. Is there anybody in
your life that you would make AI images of them

(44:19):
super muscular with their sleeves undone and like ruling over
everybody and make it your profile picture? Anybody I would
do that. That's a.

Speaker 4 (44:34):
Very benevolent dictator, though, I.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Will give you.

Speaker 7 (44:36):
Yeah, what you get what I'm asking you, see what
I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (44:40):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean.

Speaker 7 (44:43):
Yeah, yeah, And just if you were to look outside
of outside of what's you know, from a thirty thousand
foot view, that's a good indicator. It's like, what what
are y'all? What is this? What is what is going
through your head about your feelings about this person? What's
making what's fueling this like worship, this idolship, this sort

(45:04):
of uh just idolization of this person that will let you.
People don't even do that with Jesus. Like nobody makes
sex stuff about Jesus. They still post it.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
I mean, now I've seen some stuff about Jesus and
I'm like, yeah, this.

Speaker 7 (45:17):
Is like come on, I see it.

Speaker 5 (45:23):
Even to the point where you have a celebrity death
and you got people calling in and taking off work
for days because.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yeah, okay, look, you know how upset I was when
Robin Williams committed suicide like that, that was a man.

Speaker 4 (45:35):
There was a big part of my childhood and everything
shaped probably.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
A lot of my sense of humor, like you know,
very kind of sardonic, sarcastic type of feel kind of
mocking everything. But at the same time, like I just
I went about my day like, yes, I was very
sad that he died, very sad, Like it was awful,
like suicide, depression, all of that is an awful thing,
and you know that death kind of brought that home.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
But again, like all these people who.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Would see something like that and be like I can't
even function today because this person that I don't know,
that like, I just I don't understand them, Like, yes,
I can be sad about it, I can understand how
horrific it is like that, I can be sympathized.

Speaker 7 (46:18):
Stanley was that one for me when you know Stanley Marbles, Yeah,
that was such a bummer and just connected to my
childhood on that stuff. And I do have like an
association with that stranger in that way, But there's no
personal there's no interpersonal relationship whatsoever. None. There's a word.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, exactly, even Stephen King, I would say Stephen King, yes, raging,
lefty and everything.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
He would probably hate me if he knew I existed.
But at the same time.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Like I've been reading his books since I was six
years old, this man has shaped my childhood, shaped my imagination,
shaped my love.

Speaker 7 (46:48):
Forever.

Speaker 4 (46:49):
When he does, I'm not gonna be okay for a while. Hold,
But at the same time, I'm still going to go
on about my life because I did not actually personally
know him.

Speaker 5 (46:58):
Uh, far different on this. Yes, uh there is not
one person in this world who is famous or not
that I'm not physically connected to. Not physically but emotionally connected.
That's not like family and things like that. That well,
I wouldn't even stutter still if I find out someone died,

(47:20):
you don't have fair.

Speaker 7 (47:23):
Hanging on the wall or anything in there.

Speaker 5 (47:25):
Absolutely not now, I mean, honestly, gosh, I can't. There's
not one celebrity death that even made me go Norm MacDonald,
I'm not man. That was that was that was the complete.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Okay, you rap at that, you laugh at that, but
wait till you hear his theory about norm normous circle.

Speaker 7 (47:46):
Yeah, yeah, there's a there's an episode for you right there.

Speaker 8 (47:51):
Do you die?

Speaker 5 (47:53):
You know, there's people in my extended family even that
you know, I'm not seeing it on some or whatever,
and I found out that they've passed away.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
I may go to the funeral.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
Must say, we'll go because their family, But I'm going
because of the people that still there.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
I've I meant, some of your family member's funerals, but
I never actually met them because they died before.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
I met them.

Speaker 5 (48:12):
Yeah, and I'm not being trying to be rude about
or anything like that, but honestly, don't have the energy
to care enough to later to fake my life. I
have my wife and my daughter and my parents and
the close knit parts of my family that I need
to worry about everybody else. I'm sorry, I'm not giving
enough energy to.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Care to spend well. I mean, okay, both of us
are still mourning. Like the loss of your little brother.

Speaker 7 (48:40):
That's horrible, man, I mean.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
Very very suddenly. I mean his brother is like a
year older than me, so yeah, it was very sudden. Yeah,
there or something from the people that are stalking me
and just trying to make my life. Hell no, I
mean it was a legitimate like nobody ever saw it.

Speaker 7 (49:04):
Comd of had one in my family too. He was
it's his twentieth birth twentieth birthday, and then we're driving
home from it he ran off the road and there
was no blood in the car because he was dead
before he ever hit the tree.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Yeah, he sucks, brother, I'm sorry to hear that.

Speaker 7 (49:17):
Man. That sucks a lot. I would be inconsolable if
it were my baby brother. That's that's fucking terrible.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
It's still like every year, like his birthday is around,
the anniversary around, like it's it's still very rough and
this happened years ago.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
Yeah, that's the thing.

Speaker 5 (49:32):
Like, that's what I would saying, Like I'm I'm not callous,
I'm mourn people matter to me, right, but I'm also
not going life is too good important to me for
my loved one for me to give me any any
energy to some actor or senior, a celebrity or to your.

Speaker 7 (49:49):
Point, you're Daniel, that adds a lot of stress to
you and a lot of baggage for you to carry
for to have that emotional bandwidth tied up in people
that you never met. So you know, I don't mean to,
I don't, Like I.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Said, we can empathize and everything, obviously, and like Robin
Williams and I spent like an entire weekend watching Robin
Williams movies, like you know, but.

Speaker 4 (50:11):
That was about it. Like I mean, I watched them
with you guys, with you in the tiny tower, and
like we spent family time.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Together and we recognize, hey, we're lucky to still have
each other. So I mean it was it was a
good thing in that way. But yeah, I mean that's
I think, especially nowadays, this is how alarmingly easy I
think it would be.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
For a cult.

Speaker 7 (50:35):
And scarcely kind of close to being as to happening
in a lot of ways. I mean, you know, you can,
you guys can objectively look at Trump and go, that
is the president of the United States of America, and
he makes laws and I aweigh them. But there's some
behavior around that that is just I don't even think
it's close to any other president I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
And it's weird call we call balls and strikes no
matter what. I mean, we voted for the guy this
time around and everything, and I mean that's but we
are able to say like, hey, we don't like when
he's doing this, or hey, it's a good thing that
he's doing this.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
We're very very objective when.

Speaker 8 (51:09):
Laura, Laura, don't you know that he's the most conservative
person ever?

Speaker 4 (51:14):
I always love that Trunk's conservative, Like where have you been?
No he's not.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
Yeah, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 5 (51:23):
But yeah, right now, like he was saying that this
day and age with celebrity number one, I'm surprised there's
huge Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
I mean, if we kind of let the definition of
cult be more fluid and everything, I bet that yes,
like the Taylor the Swifties, you would be considered a
quote unquote cult.

Speaker 5 (51:42):
You have political side, you got they say we're a cult,
were right? Well us personally, I'm just talking about right
and left. And then you know to Taylor Swift, he's
our cult. You got a big bull that are other
celebrity you know cults, you know Kansas City Chiefs, colts whatever.
I meant, you stole around a lot but a lot
of times.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Yeah, but is like of this of this episode and
everything we're talking about, like the difference between like and
undue influences, and again, these are the cult leaders that
we're talking about like the David Koresh like the even
Charles Manson, Jim Jones yahweh ben yahway. These are people
who are actively buying to pray on other people.

Speaker 7 (52:25):
For their glasses.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
Which was that Jones who is.

Speaker 7 (52:36):
App was the older guy war a robe, purple robe.
It might be this suicide cold said, we looked them up.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
We probably know exactly here, Okay, basically, like for the
purposes of this episode and everything, the COLT leader is
going to be a malignant narcissist.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
And that's not.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
That's not a formal term or diagnosis in the world
of psychology at all.

Speaker 4 (53:10):
It's they It combines the traits of.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Narcissistic personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, aggression, and sadism and
a paranoral office.

Speaker 7 (53:23):
Yeah, like, uh, leadership by way of fear, like if
you don't follow me, something bad will happen and it's unavailable.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
And look at Jim Jones too, Like Jim Jones got
convinced that the the you know, the US government was
coming to get him, so that's why he moved his
people to die ont.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
Like, well they were coming after Well, no, that.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
That Congressman hang On I got his name written down
because he was one of the ones killed at the airfield,
Leo Ryan.

Speaker 4 (53:52):
He was a Democrat from California.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
They were basically just coming to almost investigate, because he
came with other journalists and they were just gonna talked
to some of the people there and everything and try
to get a handle on what was happening at Jonestown.
And then they were all killed, not all of them,
but most build right there in that tiny little airstrip
because Jim Jones sent his little gunman after them, the

(54:16):
people who were trying to leave Jonestown and the people
coming to ask question.

Speaker 7 (54:21):
I just looked up Jim Jones. Heaven's Gate is the
one I was thinking of. That's him, Yeah, yes, the
older guy. Yeah, that's who I was thinking of.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Yeah, yeah, I could name, but like I have those
visions of those videos of him in my.

Speaker 5 (54:39):
Head when he said the old guy into purple Road
because I stayed covered to the guys with purple Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
But again, like malignant narcissism is not actually a formal
or psychological term, but narcissistic personality disorder is overwhelmingly what
we're dealing with with cult leaders, and like obviously narcissism,
the Greek myth where narcissists falls deeply in love with
his own reflection. You know, that's where that term comes from.

Speaker 7 (55:08):
You guys heard of the Japan subway cult thing, the
guy that the Supreme Truth guy. Yeah, I think you
guys would like that. When he I think he gassed
a subway station, like him and his people went underneath
a subway station.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
I say, I think I know the actual crime, but
the cult thing is not ringing a bell.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (55:32):
And I like to point that with these cult leaders,
they very often even when they're caught red handed, and
it's like they do seem to have this aura about
them that leads to them even when they're in captivity
to get followers, which I mean look at Manson for example,
He arguably got more followers once he was put in

(55:55):
prison than he did when he was.

Speaker 4 (55:57):
At some point not allow anymore to respond to fan
mail that he got. Like he could still get his mail,
he just was not allowed to respond to it.

Speaker 5 (56:09):
In It's me Supreme Truth. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (56:14):
Ten thousand people in Japan and thirty thousand members worldwide,
many of them in Russia.

Speaker 4 (56:19):
Geez.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
I mean going back to I mean these leaders and
everything they I mean, they have to be able to
get people to follow them. Again, a lot of this
is it is a combination of different diagnosable personality disorders,
now that narcissistic personality disorder, which I've got my DSN
in front of me. It's a pervasive pattern of grandiosity,

(56:44):
either in fantasy or behavior, the need for admiration, a
lack of empathy. Let's see it says beginning by early
adulthood president in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five.

Speaker 4 (56:58):
Or more of the following.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
So we've got the sense of grandiosity. They exaggerate their achievements,
their talents. They expect to be recognized as superior without
any kind without actually doing anything to warrant that. They're
preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty or love.
They believe that they are special and unique and can

(57:21):
only be understood by or should associate with, other special
or high status people, which means that like, that's why
they look down upon their followers and they view them
as expendable because they're not as high power or as
special as they are.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
Now when they refer to them as.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
Sheep, Yeah, they need the excessive admiration, the sense of entitlement,
like all of this is what gives them especially But yes,
they have to learn again to they have to adapt,
and they have to be able to reach like on

(57:56):
a deeply personal level in order to get those people
to follow them.

Speaker 7 (58:00):
So in the way that most of us could say
about ourselves that we are pretty skeptical of feats, you know,
any authority, and would question just about anybody that presume
to have patrol over us. How do you guys think
somebody that lives in the same world that we do
could psychologically ballfer this? What do you think it is

(58:23):
about those people that make them susceptible to a person
that exhibits those traits that you just read.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
It goes back to Yeah, it goes back to what
I was saying earlier about followers. We have a human
need for comfort for safety firstly, so we seek out
people who offer these things to us.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
We also just have that human need to fit in
part of something.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
Yes, you need that sense of belonging like this is
just part of being a human.

Speaker 5 (58:51):
And a lot of times when you need your social creatures.
A lot of times when you see lots of survivors
of these cults I got out. You'll see that they
they look and that they always felt out of place,
that they never fit anywhere until they met this group
of locked minded individuals that accepted them as they were
in the beginning.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Right as long as you fell in line with what
they accepted and what they believed to be true, you
were accepted too.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
So it gives you that sense of community.

Speaker 5 (59:17):
And then when you're searching for something like that and
you realize you're getting a taste of it, you're it's
susceptible to doing more things to continue to stay there.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
You don't want to rock the boat. You want to
stay because you don't, so you.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Can't question and everything because then they will ask you,
and now you have lost that sense of community, in
that sense of belongings down. I don't know if you
know this, but that well, we weren't hanging out in
the bar, but me and Dale we met in a bar.
He was working security for the band that was playing,

(59:50):
and I was a bartender.

Speaker 7 (59:54):
See that's why you guys le bar.

Speaker 5 (59:58):
So I want to to that right there? What what
about the bar? If I'm a cult leader and i'm
I'm I'm hunting somebody to approach. I'm gonna find that
person at the bar that's by themselves sitting up the
setting at the bar off to one side, scratching the crowd,
because you know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
They want someone to want them.

Speaker 5 (01:00:16):
They want to be a bofity to approach someone else
as well, and if you make that first move to them, it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
Will build their confidence like, Okay, I'm somebody.

Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
The next time they go back to that bar, they're
gonna be looking for you. Even if you just sit
and talk with it, they're gonna be looking for you. So
it's kind of that mindset that I think a bar
would actually be a prett hunting ground to start off.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
That also, and that their inhibitions are lower and everything
if they're drinking.

Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
So well, of course, but I'm just talking about for
that approach to that. So yeah, I think a bar
actually makes sense if you know who you're looking for.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
You could, I mean, and then you can still turn
it to like the lonely guy or girl at the
coffee house or you know, somewhere else in public that
you see them like watching other people, and you see
them kind of like wanting to go up and like connect.

Speaker 5 (01:00:59):
And I agree that's the good thing too. Like, but
if you're at a Barnes and Noble and someone sitting
there magazine and drinking one of those overpriced coffees, kind
of people watching is different because you can you can
kind of agree to go to the Barnes and Noble
or books a million and to have a quiet time
by yourself. If you got to a bar, you're looking
for that stimularaction, looking for that stimula of whatever and

(01:01:24):
gives you. So you're putting yourself in that environment to
be approached or to have the opportunity to approach somewhere
else to have that interact. I would agree with that.

Speaker 7 (01:01:32):
It's easy to you would go to the where you're gonna,
you know, do some research. I guess at first, and
then go, okay, these these people are vulnerable to this
in this way, so I'm gonna go where those people are.

Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
This kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Goes back to like the way serial killers even track
their victims. We're looking they're going to an area that
they know that they can find the type of person.

Speaker 5 (01:01:54):
They're looking from us doing the show and doing our
research and taught it. Throughout the years, I realized I
would make a really good serial killer and the oracle there.

Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
I don't think that's it. I don't think Andrew is here.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
But Andrew is convinced that I am a closeted serial killer,
Like everybody's a little bit scared of me.

Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
I think the ability to do so well Heaven's Gate
for instance, that was you had Apple Watt up front.
He was having the spokesman, but his well they ever
actually married him and the girl his girlfriend, I know
him and the woman. The woman was when I.

Speaker 4 (01:02:31):
Say they were actually married married, we're.

Speaker 5 (01:02:33):
Gonna call it husband in wh just for the conversation.
But she was really the brains and the backbone of
that cult. He was the mouthpiece and the charismatic upfront
man you know that kind of carried it, so he
got all the attention, but she was the one that
was kind of the kind of really pushed it and
got it. It was building it up.

Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
Was that remind me?

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
It was our last episode, wasn't it We did the
like how how to hypothetically get away with it?

Speaker 8 (01:03:02):
Wasn't that our.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Last episode episode or two ago?

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
But yeah, yeah, you could be like the front man
and everything. I always make a joke and everything all
the time. That yes, Daniel is the one that wears
the pants in our relationships, but I'm the one that
controls it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:19):
So I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:03:23):
This is not a serious topic. But just thinking back,
I can't think of anybody any cultures that I've ever
seen that had any popularity that were straight up Southern
folk Like that sounds like the group of us are.

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean Kresh might have counted
in a little, but I think.

Speaker 7 (01:03:43):
He didn't strike me as particularly a Southern guy. We
all got bills and down here.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
I need to find the guy that Daniel was mentioned
in earlier, because I mean, it actually isn't really far
from us, but he and I think most people like
don't take him seriously. That's why he is not well known.
But I mean he absolutely has got like his own
little cult thing going on, and it's very very od
like on Twitter just town, like I always love to

(01:04:15):
reading about him.

Speaker 7 (01:04:17):
On Twitter or just around town where y'all are.

Speaker 4 (01:04:22):
I think he's made like at least Alabama News, but
just because he's so weird and like that thought it
was like an interesting, like human interest.

Speaker 7 (01:04:28):
Story, like I can't I want to hear this story,
but not taking a show up to here that.

Speaker 5 (01:04:36):
Well, no, I'll mention it a little bit since we
brought it up. The guy's name is Robin Bullock b
U L l O c K. And he is like
a I don't know, like a team move version of
those where I'm at too, bro a lot of them.

(01:04:59):
But he plays he's rock and roll music as he's
preaching and everything, and he claims it's supposed to be
a Christian church, right and but he I mean, they're
buying up all this land out out I don't wherever
it is. I'm not going to say that. I can't
remember the exact town right now. But anyways, it's a

(01:05:19):
husband and wife team. They're both named Robin Damn.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Robin R. And Robin D. Bulllock.

Speaker 4 (01:05:27):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
Now she is the pastor of church.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
The okay, so she's then.

Speaker 5 (01:05:33):
She's the preaching part. Robin the guy is the prophet.
He's the one that has.

Speaker 7 (01:05:41):
He's the one that has.

Speaker 5 (01:05:42):
He gets ascended up into heaven ever so often so
him and Jesus can talk and make plans, and then
he gets sent back down to earth so he can
put forward and now here's wait. The way he gives
his prophet singing with his guitar.

Speaker 4 (01:05:59):
Let's and now I need.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
To understand like a scends into heaven, like is there
a bright light associated with it and cows going up
with him?

Speaker 4 (01:06:06):
Or I don't know, because.

Speaker 5 (01:06:10):
But they're buying up a bunch of land and opening
up all these churchies and everything. It's it's pretty crazy.

Speaker 8 (01:06:16):
Yeah. I was also wondering, like if you guys have
ever heard like the like this is something I found
out when I was looking at genocide literature on history
of how these ideologies sort of come about. And this
does play into cults with how there is this sort

(01:06:37):
of thing called like the paradox of genocidal ideologies where
on one hand there is the like we are the
inn group and there's an outgroup and the outgroup on
one hand, they have to be dehumanized by so seen
as not human, but on the other hand, they also

(01:06:59):
have to be seen somewhat as more than human because
they have to be seen as solely responsible for everything
that's wrong in the world. So there's that's what they
call it a bit of a paradox because on one
hand you have them where you have to say that
these people are not people, but yet they are all responsible, right, Yeah, Well,

(01:07:22):
I mean it's sort of that these ideologies that some
ideologies I see I seen especially in more hate filled
colds like the clan and sort of these Aryan brotherhoods
sort of things.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
Right, anybody not white is sub human but is also
human enough to be.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
Responsible for all societal ills basically.

Speaker 5 (01:07:42):
Yeah, And that's not just I mean you look at them.
There's nation of Islam bianthro groups of that. I mean,
it's not just them the one race or the other.
But I think that is just the hate field, hate
fuel dot cult where you dehumanize someone on a personal level,

(01:08:03):
but you also, like you said, you elevate them in
the negative ways to give them more.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
I mean, that's the paradox that he's talking about. They're
either subhuman or they're somewhat more than human too to
be able to cause all.

Speaker 4 (01:08:18):
Of the problems that you're mad about.

Speaker 7 (01:08:19):
Yeah, you know what this brings them. An interesting question too,
for me at least, is that, Okay, do you think
do you think the definition of a cult as an
inherent toxicity, negativity, negative impact on somebody or are there
groups that fall into all these categories and stuff that

(01:08:42):
don't inherently harm anybody, nobody's victimized, nobody's really it's a
positive outcome. But also could actually sort of be considered
cult like in a lot of ways, even though nobody dies,
nobody you know, burns up the content of the ground
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
I could, I could have to say that those types
of groups, like the more benevolent cults, I would said, yeah,
they absolutely could exist and probably do exist, but we
never hear about them because they don't do anything.

Speaker 7 (01:09:07):
Like living amongst us and something we could identify that
are hiding in plain sight that we just don't. We
don't lump into that group because there isn't a negative
outcome of the whole thing, like you could say swift
for example music.

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
The definition could be very very fluid in this way.

Speaker 5 (01:09:28):
I got one that would tie right into that. That
is a cult scientologist cast no mother than financial.

Speaker 7 (01:09:37):
I don't know that brainwashing, sexual exploitation, stuff going on
in the sun.

Speaker 4 (01:09:42):
There has been like the sexual stuff, and.

Speaker 5 (01:09:45):
He's talking about like he's something more. The way I
took it was more like your traditional cults that end
up with a mass suicide.

Speaker 4 (01:09:52):
Like even when manson like mass murder or something like that.

Speaker 5 (01:09:56):
Interesting it may wind up, the may wind up going
to the point. But I think that would be the
biggest named one, the most popular, well known one. I
guess the most well known one that that could be
argued isn't necessarily a uh net negative to society, you
know about the point.

Speaker 8 (01:10:16):
The show My Name is Earl. Yeah, both Earl and
his brother, like the actors in real life, are members
of the Scientology.

Speaker 5 (01:10:25):
Yeah, there's Tom Cruise is the biggest one. There's a
lot of them. What's that guy that played in Grief
John for Botha is one of I don't know that one.

Speaker 4 (01:10:34):
I'm still trying to remember her name.

Speaker 5 (01:10:37):
I'm looking at that.

Speaker 7 (01:10:38):
It's you're talking about the one that the actress that
got in a ton of trouble for sex traffick or
something like that.

Speaker 5 (01:10:47):
No, that was that one from earlier, the one.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
Yeah Nexium was involved in human trafficking, and that one
was like it was pronounced nexium but was like n
x uh i've u m or something like Roman numerals
almost well, you know, but the one I'm thinking of
that she had that whole documentary series as she escapes Scientology. Yeah, yeah,

(01:11:16):
the show with James his face, the.

Speaker 8 (01:11:19):
Big Yeah, yeah, and I remember sort of right, who
plays Simpson, who is also a member of the Scientology.

Speaker 7 (01:11:33):
I did not know that. You can't talk about Katie Holmes,
are you.

Speaker 4 (01:11:40):
Katie Holmes was married to Tom Cruise. You know she left it, but.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
It was Leo Remini, Remy the actors that left.

Speaker 4 (01:11:47):
Did that documentary.

Speaker 5 (01:11:49):
Okay, On from the Superman Show from the c W
was the one in the next vee.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
I know her face, but yeah, I suck with names.
So every time we're trying, we're trying to think of.

Speaker 5 (01:12:02):
Yeah, the U but Scientology people are like I said,
we already said the big name ones, but there's a
huge list.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
I mean, I'm sure that if you were to.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Again, if you were to take like the nective aspects,
because yes, when you say cold, it always is associated
with something negative. Think way, Yes, I absolutely would believe
that there are cults out there that are you know,
not involved in any kind of criminal activity.

Speaker 7 (01:12:33):
Yeah, you probably had some experience with this. Think of
something anything that somebody is a fan of, or as
large group as a fan of that if you criticize that,
all of them would surround you and destroy you with
everything they've got.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Oh my god, I went after well, I didn't go
after a Swifty. I just merely disagreed with one once.
And my notifications were like.

Speaker 7 (01:12:55):
They don't even know her, and that sort of that
crazy mentality comes out of the woodwork, and we'll just
just protect the group.

Speaker 8 (01:13:04):
Yeah. Yeah, I will also say there is like the
other side of the argument where it's like the people
that are very anti Swift, where like I remember, like
I've made like because obviously I don't like Taylor Swift myself,
but I also said that I've also given like a
compliment to her before, and a lot of people jumped

(01:13:26):
on me before for that because.

Speaker 7 (01:13:28):
The way, yeah, because.

Speaker 8 (01:13:31):
All I said, because here's all I said. All I
said was, hey, look, she donates a lot of money
to charity. You see how much she I think she
donates like eight percent of her wealth to charity every year,
which I mean that's a whole lot of money and all.

Speaker 4 (01:13:48):
And I mean there are songs of hers that I
don't hate.

Speaker 8 (01:13:53):
Oh yeah, yeah, so it was. So that's what I
was talking about, is like where you get the other
side of the argument too, where you can just so
much as just you can give someone like the most
low compliment that you possibly could give and say, hey,
you know what you did, this good thing for poor people, congratulations,
keep it up. And also you're saying, as woman, that's brainwashings.

Speaker 4 (01:14:15):
It's bro I think it would be very very easy
today for any kind of person to become a cult leader,
because we are all so polarized that it just seems
like it doesn't matter if you're right or left or
somewhere in the middle. If you compliment one side, the
other to liciously attack you and say, oh, you're supporting

(01:14:38):
everything that that side does.

Speaker 8 (01:14:40):
Yeah, well, yes, that's yeah. I remember like with you,
Laura and specific like you've complimented Betterman and and you've
gotten people that like more Republican leading people that have
gone after for just you know, giving a compliment to
what he says.

Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
Guys, I have been blocked by other concern for simply
reading Stephen King books. No I have, because they're like,
you know, he's a raging lefty. I'm like, yes, I
understand this, like I'm able to separate the arts from
the artists, but these people get like very very angry
with me and block me.

Speaker 7 (01:15:15):
It is still a good movie. So I don't know
what you want me to do about.

Speaker 4 (01:15:18):
That, and the books, you can ask Daniel.

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
He will not watch all the whole actually are one
Time's Day date is coming next week because they've actually
made a new movie based on his short story of
the Monkey, which remind me to show you all those
pictures because that was one of the stories when we
first got together that he read that actually bothered him.

Speaker 4 (01:15:38):
I went on Amazon and bought a monkey.

Speaker 7 (01:15:40):
Oh no, yes, I did.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
A day got home from work and he got in
the shower immediately and everything. So I went and unpacked
the monkey and everything left sitting on the bed, and
all I heard from downstairs when I was cooking dinner
when he got out of.

Speaker 8 (01:15:54):
That's not so.

Speaker 4 (01:15:58):
I'm like, that's my Valentine's Day treat and everything. He's
taken me to see that new movie next week, and
this is the market He's gonna.

Speaker 7 (01:16:04):
Take you to disease so you can see actual monkeys.

Speaker 8 (01:16:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Now for the first part though, like he will not
watch Stephen King movies with me because I'm the one
who sits there and goes that's not how they did
in the book.

Speaker 7 (01:16:15):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 8 (01:16:17):
Oh well, like I've said this before, like because uh,
you know Stephen King's book It.

Speaker 4 (01:16:26):
Yeah, that people point out.

Speaker 8 (01:16:29):
Yeah, and I like to just say, well, I mean
I have said it before, is that if someone like
literally tried to make a page by page adaptation of
that book, they would go to prison.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
Well, I mean, I don't know who would necessarily go
to prison, because I mean, the antagonist in the villain
of the story is a supernatural creature.

Speaker 4 (01:16:50):
But even the scene that everybody talks.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
About in it is really not what it is made
out to be. And like me and my friend Heather
have wanted to do his faces on this forever because
she's a Stephen King freak to I mean, if you
read the book, it's it's not actually about what it's
made out to be, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:17:08):
And that I've been accused of like defending.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Pedophilia and you know, covering for it, and I'm like
that that's just that's not the case in this context matters,
you know, for sure.

Speaker 8 (01:17:21):
I mean, I saw I do get with you with
when it comes to separating the art from the artists,
because like, one of my favorite writers ever is sie Hinton,
and I believe she's the one that made the Hunger Games.

Speaker 4 (01:17:38):
I think so and I mean she's.

Speaker 8 (01:17:41):
One of them. And I'm pretty sure. I think I've
heard she's more of a left liberal or something, but
I know from the I can't remember her name right
at the top of my head, but she wrote the
book The Outsiders.

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
Oh I did love that one in school.

Speaker 8 (01:17:56):
Yeah yeah, And I found out like that's one of
my That was one of my favorite books when I
was in high school too, and I you know, and
she was one of my favorite authors. She still is
one of my favorite authors. And I remember I would
just I looked, I looked her up on Twitter, and
god do I that.

Speaker 7 (01:18:13):
Is that the Tony Boy and the knife fighting all that? Yeah?

Speaker 8 (01:18:18):
One, yeah, I mean it's basically like The Outsiders is
basically like Happy Days, but like dark.

Speaker 7 (01:18:25):
With a knife fight.

Speaker 8 (01:18:26):
Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
I was thinking like it actually probably harken back a
little more to Shakespeare and literature, but I haven't taken
any kind of creative writing class in decades. Probably Daniels
playing solitary, all right, so I can maybe.

Speaker 7 (01:18:45):
Get it back and track with a question. So, uh,
if you look at a group that is that follows
something as follows, a purpose follows, a person follows the
idea of philosophy, whatever, what would you say, you know,
even if it's with a lot of passion, somebody that's
really devout to this thing. Christianity, for example, what would
you what would you what things would stand out for

(01:19:08):
you that would separate something that is benevolent and considered
mentally and psychologically quote unquote normal to participate in versus
a cult.

Speaker 4 (01:19:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
I'll even use your example here, Christianity, because we are Christian.

Speaker 4 (01:19:26):
And a lot of people do have.

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
This idea that Christianity like calls us to kill certain
people that you know, our sinners.

Speaker 4 (01:19:35):
But the thing is, for a true Christian, everybody is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
A true center, right, all of them, every single one
of us. So I mean I kill one center for
one sin, then I mean what's stopping anybody else.

Speaker 4 (01:19:49):
From doing that to you too?

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
This is not at all what Christianity teaches, what Jesus teaches.
I mean, that's the true follower like that would step
right a cultist that is using Christianity.

Speaker 4 (01:20:04):
Yeah, they're going to.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
Say, you know that their basis for less, say, hating
gay people or whatever and saying that they should be killed.
That person has now perverted Christians their own personal ideology,
and that would make that person if they have a
large following and have connced a lot of people of this,
that would make them a cult leader. That would make
them a cult that is just simply using Christianity as

(01:20:28):
a base.

Speaker 7 (01:20:29):
Yeah, it's a.

Speaker 4 (01:20:30):
Perversion of actual Christianity.

Speaker 8 (01:20:32):
Yeah, that guy, like, I know the guy that you're
talking about, that's Stephen Anderson. That's the guy that he's
this Christian pastor that he said that the government should
make homosexuality illegal and then order the government the government
should then seek out gay people and kill them.

Speaker 4 (01:20:50):
Because that that's absolutely absurd to me, Like one, look
like it's not our job to punish them. That's not
on us.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
That is what it's meant when it says, you know,
don't judge others, like judge others lest you be judged,
Like it's basically saying, I'm going to judge you. God
is going to judge you by the same standard that
He judges everybody. So if you're trying to judge somebody
else's salvation or their life and everything the way that

(01:21:18):
God would, you are, like you're taking on the role
of God and everything, and that is what's forbidden. Yeah,
that's what we're told not to do.

Speaker 5 (01:21:26):
I think that's the point right there too. It's when
they are asking you to harm others or yourselves in
their name.

Speaker 4 (01:21:35):
Right exactly. I mean you're doing it because they have
told you to, not because God has told you to.
But they said that God told them to tell you
that that's what you should to this problem.

Speaker 7 (01:21:45):
So, Daniel, that would be your distinction between what would
be considered a large following with a passionate you know,
dedication to that following, and a cult would be that
sentence you just said, Well, it's like if that leader
tells you to cause harm to other people, is that
is that sort of distinguish what you would consider a
cult versus just a really popular following of some kind.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
I need to make a distinction here because like, okay, yes,
we're going to use homosexuality again as an example. It
is considered a sin in Christianity. But God does not
command anywhere in the Bible for followers of him, like
especially the followers of Jesus. We are not commanded to
carry out punishment.

Speaker 4 (01:22:29):
For that is not our job. That is not our role.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
So no, anybody that tells God says this is lie, Like, yes,
if you are actively sinning, God says us going to
you know, lead to eternal death. Like, but that's his judgment,
not ours. We are not supposed to be the ones
to carry that out here on earth.

Speaker 8 (01:22:53):
I remember. It was also funny because just going into
they sort of have to have this whole big hit
false history about how persecuted gay people really were in
America for forever long. And what's funny is like they'll
point out sodomy laws or whatever and use that and say, look,
our government has embraced this sort of thing with Christianity before.

(01:23:16):
And I mean, I like to point out that if
you go to the colonial times, like we only have
records of that ever being enforced like ten times, and
that's it's literally over hundreds of years.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
Yeah, but you can't say on this point, like you
can't say that homosexual people have not been persecuted in
the US and pretty flearly just because in certain contexts
of any kind of law like that was only carried
out a handful of times.

Speaker 4 (01:23:44):
No, they absolutely were very persecuted in the US.

Speaker 8 (01:23:47):
Well yeah, I mean, well, I mean in terms of
that specific law, that's that's different. Like but yeah, of course,
and when it comes to socially, that's a different thing.
Some mean like there can be not a law against
something or for something and will still be persecuted. Like
that's that happens all the time because you know, social
people get like I remember, for example, I tell people

(01:24:08):
about how like after World War Two, for a time being,
German Americans were very much hated by a large segment
of the American population. They were all called nas, even
many German Americans that have been born in America, and
their only crime was that their father was from Germany. Yeah,

(01:24:29):
and and yeah, and basically that was all Like so
many German Americans had to lose their like they either
had to stop talking because they had a thick German accent,
or they had to take a linguist the cinemam took
linguist classes so they could learn how to Yeah, So

(01:24:50):
that happened for a time being, where so and there
was no law specifically saying oh go out and you know,
basically imprisoned the German Americans. There was anything for that.
But there can be like social stigma that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Yeah, persecution happens no matter what I mean, every single culture,
every single race, every single ethnicity. Everybody's persecuted, everybody on
earth because I'm sorry, that's human nature. That are considered
other are going to be ostracized by some people like

(01:25:26):
it just I'm not saying it's right, but it happens.

Speaker 4 (01:25:28):
It's not uncommon. That's again human nature.

Speaker 5 (01:25:32):
And that's the one of reasons that these cult leaders
can get their people to do these horrible things too
the other just because it's us against them mentality, and
you can turn them into like I said that you
think about human nature as far as being well, we're right,
so we have the we have the authority to do
this because this is what we believe, and therefore you're

(01:25:52):
wrong and you're less than us.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
And you even see that now playing out in politics
today like left versus right. Both sides are saying, you know,
we're right, you're wrong, you're.

Speaker 8 (01:26:02):
Well, you know what I mean. And the thing is, like,
I mean, this is sort of instinctual, like we don't
really even think about it in many cases like this
us in group versus out group. I mean, it's not
even something exclusive to humans. We see the same thing
in like chimpanzees and other things like they like it's complete.

Speaker 4 (01:26:25):
Chimpanzee. So they're more similar to us than we realize.

Speaker 8 (01:26:29):
Well, especially you know some of our family members when
they forget a shaven.

Speaker 4 (01:26:36):
Doesn't look like a champion, looks like a Viking. Get
it right, you're the one that coined that.

Speaker 8 (01:26:42):
I know that was so great, especially that you got
the cookie jar with with the Viking Santa. I still
love that.

Speaker 4 (01:26:48):
I'm looking at the cookie jar right now off on
top of the pantry.

Speaker 8 (01:26:51):
But yeah, I still love that that I have that influence.
Maybe I could be a cult leader. Then if I
can influence that, well, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
Know, like Annual, I guess since he would be like
the Viking Santa and everything, we could have like a
whole cult for Viking Santa.

Speaker 4 (01:27:06):
That would be fun.

Speaker 8 (01:27:07):
Oh yeah, Viking Sanate and his biking helves.

Speaker 4 (01:27:10):
Look, you could implement like your lottery thing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
Because you get your color, your followers and everything to
give you money and everything, you can make your dream happen. Okay,
a lot of y'all know about his dream, but some
of y'all don't, so you need to tell them your dream.

Speaker 5 (01:27:29):
So what I want to do is if I ever
become a billionaire or a cult letter with enough power.
Is I want to employ a bunch of little people,
midgets and just give them a nice place to live
and not charge them anything for it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
Really shet them up. We take care of them well,
like Cradle Grave.

Speaker 5 (01:27:54):
Because this is a group of people that overlooked and
they don't I mean, it's a minority group that doesn't
get a lot of attention, you know. So I want
to reach out to them or reach down to them
and help them out and give them and give them
a good place to be and and they won't have
to work. They won't have they have to work a

(01:28:14):
little farm, but they won't have to. They'll get a
small paycheck. They rent, they they will live rent free
on our property.

Speaker 3 (01:28:24):
I mean, they want for generational life.

Speaker 5 (01:28:26):
If they they so choose the only thing and I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:28:29):
Will here, hang on, this is the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
If theyse this is completely like voluntary.

Speaker 4 (01:28:38):
You know, consensual.

Speaker 5 (01:28:39):
I mean I'm not going to force them, of course,
but what they have to deal with is ever so often,
I'm gonna come over to Hill as a giant and
I'm going to recap their little village and I want
them to run away into it, and then we.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
Will have it completely with like miny go to and
many cows and many pigs.

Speaker 5 (01:28:58):
Sure if they had little villagers in that way from
me at least once a week, did not walk.

Speaker 7 (01:29:04):
Into miss I fell off. I fell off the walk
back in.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
And that's like his like, if we ever like win
like the Mega millions lottery or something.

Speaker 5 (01:29:15):
I'll tell you right now, the world would be a
much funner place if I was mister Beast instead of buddy.

Speaker 4 (01:29:25):
But I swear like that's.

Speaker 7 (01:29:27):
That is that you'll disagree on something.

Speaker 8 (01:29:29):
I'll tell you what.

Speaker 7 (01:29:29):
We're strapped both of you in the NASCAR, and we'll
see who wins.

Speaker 4 (01:29:39):
Not the NASCAR.

Speaker 3 (01:29:45):
And sit in on the seat.

Speaker 4 (01:29:49):
Yeah, I married this man on purpose.

Speaker 8 (01:29:53):
I remember that you told you this one in our
interview about this whole story when it comes to make
them whatever. Where this Florida guy, he like an interviewer was,
you know, interviewing people that were buying lottery tickets, and
they just went up to this guy and he said,
what would you do if you won all these millions

(01:30:14):
of dollars? The guy just said, point blake the camera,
cocaine and hookers. I'm starting to.

Speaker 2 (01:30:23):
My my thing is I'm gonna end up being like
Ross when you know they played the lottery and friends
they like chipped in everything, and he's like, oh, I'm
going to put it in like a very like low
yield bond and everything, like nobody would ever know I
win the lottery. There was a guy recently, like just
a year or two ago, maybe three, I don't know.
I don't know time when I say, like it happened

(01:30:43):
the other day, anytime between.

Speaker 4 (01:30:45):
Like last month and my birth.

Speaker 2 (01:30:47):
But yeah, I would have to collect his lottery winnings
like full on in the scream like ghost face outfit,
like with the gloves.

Speaker 4 (01:30:56):
And everything, because he didn't want anybody to know even
what race.

Speaker 7 (01:30:59):
Yeah. Yeah, that's the old, the old where they say
nobody nobody's gonna be able to tell for certain if
who won that lottery or if I won the lottery,
but there will be signs.

Speaker 2 (01:31:09):
Oh yeah, I mean, well, I'll take care of like
our family's houses and everything, like our family will be
very very well set up for life basically, I mean
for the most part.

Speaker 4 (01:31:19):
Yeah, you want to see me with like all of
the animals in my house, is you have a monkey? Oh,
I would have a monkey. My dad had a monkey.

Speaker 7 (01:31:28):
When he was that's a crazy sence I've ever heard
my dad had a monkey.

Speaker 4 (01:31:31):
When yeah, like little yeah, Marcella had one.

Speaker 8 (01:31:38):
Is that what you no?

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
Even though like I did always make fun of it,
Did I ever tell you how I tortured my brother?

Speaker 8 (01:31:47):
Oh? Yeah, you did tell me about that.

Speaker 4 (01:31:49):
Yeah, my brother used to be smaller.

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
He's my little brother, but he's like six foot two
and everything now it's ridiculous, But when we were kids,
that was bigger than he was. So there were times
I was like when I just in my head that
I was going to torture him, so I would just
like pin him down on the ground and I would
have a spoon on his forehead.

Speaker 4 (01:32:06):
Until he cried.

Speaker 8 (01:32:10):
I mean, in case you're wondering why Viking Santa has
a gray beard and gray hair, please, he had he
had short he had short brown hair, short black hair
before he met Laura.

Speaker 4 (01:32:23):
So of our wedding.

Speaker 2 (01:32:26):
Day and everything, and then show you a picture of
him today and it's it's like literally nine days black
and white.

Speaker 7 (01:32:34):
I will ask you this, I'd love to get everybody's
intake on this. If you did have all the money,
if you did one whatever amount of you know, and
and limited money or whatever, and you started a cult,
what would your cult be?

Speaker 4 (01:32:51):
Oh, this is a good one. Oh that's a good question.
I don't know. So many things are running.

Speaker 7 (01:32:57):
The wouldn't be a friend's cult or everybody? Would you
start a everybody has to today? Is the one that
starts the work week?

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
No, I mean, as much as I love friends like,
I don't think I would do anything pop culture like.
I do think that I would want to do something
that is beneficial to society, But I just don't know what.

Speaker 7 (01:33:24):
But then again, is that a cult if it benefits society, That's.

Speaker 4 (01:33:29):
What I'm saying. Like it, it technically could be considered
a cult, even though just a way, when we think
of a cult, we think of the negative connotary.

Speaker 8 (01:33:38):
Yeah, I mean, well you get to think about it
this way. You wouldn't be a malignant narciss cult leader.
You'd be a benevolent narcissist cultleader.

Speaker 2 (01:33:47):
Well, I mean, I'm not even a narcissist because the
first thing that comes to mind is abortion. So that's
me thinking about other human beings, you know, and everything,
So that's not narcissism.

Speaker 8 (01:33:56):
Well, I mean I was always wondering, like because I
remember you said maligna narcissism, and I was thinking my head,
what would benevolent benevolent narcissism look like?

Speaker 4 (01:34:06):
Okay, that's actually a good question to you. I mean,
it don't have to be something beneficial to me specifically,
like for my own personal gain, but that doesn't harm
anybody else, Like did harm or kill another human being?

Speaker 7 (01:34:20):
I think harm to Like does that count financially like
Daniel said, or does that? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:34:26):
I mean I would.

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
I would think harm encompasses like a lot of things
that that something that basically negatively affects another living human.

Speaker 8 (01:34:35):
Yeah, Like.

Speaker 5 (01:34:38):
I don't think somebody with that much power can benefit
themselves and not be negative.

Speaker 7 (01:34:44):
Agree with anything?

Speaker 4 (01:34:47):
Like I don't.

Speaker 8 (01:34:49):
I mean, would benevolent narcissism be like the whole example
of like, uh, there's a common thing about the airplane,
and like the air the airplane is spinning out of control,
something's bad and you need to get oxygen, and you,
as a parent or whatever, you're commanded first to put
the oxygen mask on yourself first, so that way you

(01:35:12):
have enough oxygen to put on the mask for your kid.

Speaker 2 (01:35:16):
That to me has always been kind of logical you know,
but as a mother, like, my first instinct.

Speaker 4 (01:35:23):
Is not that.

Speaker 8 (01:35:25):
Well. Yeah, but that's the reason why they say, like,
would that be an example of benevolent narcissism because you're
thinking about yourself first, so that way you can be
of a help to other people later.

Speaker 4 (01:35:36):
Yeah, I think that would kind of qualify because it's
also the kind of metaphor that I've seen too about
self care, like you have to make your glasses feeled,
otherwise you cannot fill anybody else's glass.

Speaker 8 (01:35:51):
Yeah. Well, I remember in the Bible it says, you know,
love others like you would love yourself or and I
mean people forget that part, like the love yourself part,
Like it's very hard to love other people if you
hate yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:36:06):
That's very true.

Speaker 2 (01:36:07):
And I mean I think a lot of my show
and Everything is kind of a reflection of that, because
I don't think that the people that I normally talk
about on the show like themselves very much.

Speaker 4 (01:36:22):
Like themselves entirely too much.

Speaker 5 (01:36:24):
I think he can make the argument that the nevolent
narcissism uh h, the pope what yet? And and you
can look at Joel ostein those kinds of things too.
I mean, any any kind of character along those lines.
But I would think that the problem with it is

(01:36:44):
the narcissism will overtake the benevolent.

Speaker 4 (01:36:49):
Was terrible because he was trying to.

Speaker 5 (01:36:51):
Think of somebody who's got that he's not. He's not
doing any odd harm what was considered upfront harm his church. Yes,
they're taking tons of money, he's a billionaire, but they
give out money as well, so but it's benefiting himself at.

Speaker 4 (01:37:09):
The same time.

Speaker 3 (01:37:09):
And the pope is very good.

Speaker 5 (01:37:12):
At being to be meek and put the church in
a thing first. But he's a living embodiment of the church.
So therefore that's the narcissism side coming in on because
he knows it and he claims it. That's just part
of the the deal, and I'm doing because of the
benevolence of part. That's why I'm kind of leaning that way.

(01:37:34):
I would kind of lean those directions. Maybe I have
to think about it more because I can talk myself
out of because I can talk myself out of it,
just like I'm talking myself into it. But that's my
first answer would be maybe a pope or someone along
those lines.

Speaker 7 (01:37:47):
Narcissism an impossible contradiction is it impossible for that to
exist because naturally, I think narcissism is a negative so
to speak.

Speaker 3 (01:37:57):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (01:37:58):
I think it may be again that way, but it
will always end that narcissism will overtake.

Speaker 8 (01:38:05):
It, will I get it where you're saying. I think
it'll either go two ways. Either the narciss like you're saying,
the narcissism will take over, or eventually the benevolence will
take over and they'll stop thinking of themselves first. So
one of the two are going to have to go.

Speaker 5 (01:38:20):
Yeah, they can't co exist for long.

Speaker 2 (01:38:22):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, one of them will overtake the
other one. And this may sound very, very pessimistic, but
I think it's more realistic of me to say, but
the narcissism, I think, for human nature will always be
the overwhelming majority winner there.

Speaker 5 (01:38:37):
Especially when you start adding power into The more power
you have, the more like it's going to turn.

Speaker 8 (01:38:42):
Yeah, and that also good.

Speaker 2 (01:38:44):
We see that play out and these these cults and
everything that we're going to be talking about next week
and you know, in the coming weeks, because we don't
know even.

Speaker 4 (01:38:52):
How many episodes we're going to do. It depends on
the cult. And you know how long we can talk
about them.

Speaker 8 (01:39:00):
Sixty nine episodes, I don't know that there have been.

Speaker 2 (01:39:04):
I mean, we're gonna stick with vainly the prominent ones.
I think, so a handful of episodes at least.

Speaker 5 (01:39:10):
I do want it. There will be at least one
episode where we'll hit on some of the smaller ones,
but that we won't spend two hours.

Speaker 7 (01:39:15):
On one of them.

Speaker 4 (01:39:16):
Yeah, they are episode on multiple.

Speaker 5 (01:39:19):
They are smaller ones that are extremely violent and dangerous
and kind of twisted, and some are just down right
funny because they're so odd. But we're definitely we're definitely
going to be looking into those, and we'll just show
kind of encompassing a bunch of those. Two.

Speaker 4 (01:39:32):
Yeah, we've got, like I said, part two I think
is going to be on the active one in the
US right now because that is the transgender slash Antifa
cult that's involved in serial murder right now there.

Speaker 2 (01:39:45):
I mean, FBI is investigating this is ongoing as we speak.

Speaker 8 (01:39:49):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
Well, there's even one like we will break it up
because there's about cats, Like there's a cat cult out
there that's ridiculous, So that would be fun.

Speaker 8 (01:40:03):
Yeah, Yeah, I was wondering, is one of your episode
is going to be about the cult of people that
are trying to stalk that are singing Laura? Will that
be an episode?

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
I don't think they qualify as a cult, but when
I eventually do an episode on stalkers and everything, like,
I may mention them.

Speaker 8 (01:40:22):
All right, that's good because I mean they could easily
become a cult. They just need someone actually has a
bit of a brain in order to lead though.

Speaker 2 (01:40:29):
But well, I think that the one that Mike could
qualify for that is that dumbfuck detector. Uh possibly that
first it would be the forerunner for the leader.

Speaker 7 (01:40:41):
But protectors stalk you.

Speaker 2 (01:40:46):
They're disorganized, They're very very disorganized. Yeah, one of them
is probably going to be arrested very very.

Speaker 7 (01:40:53):
Soon, straight fucking stalking you.

Speaker 8 (01:40:55):
For real.

Speaker 4 (01:40:56):
They are dogs and me. They are threatening to dogs
my daughter school. She's fit that crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
Like, if you go to my timeline, there was one
even today actively calling for.

Speaker 7 (01:41:10):
My on come on.

Speaker 8 (01:41:12):
Yeah, yeah, like literally just giving an opinion on abortion
and and transgenderism. And that's it.

Speaker 4 (01:41:21):
Like, I don't care if people they disagree with me
all day long. Let's just do it, like adults.

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
I mean that's I mean in the face here like
we eheminently disagree on abortion. We have actually become friends
because we realized, hey, there's another person on the other
side of the screen, and you know, well were one
another out.

Speaker 4 (01:41:39):
We don't have to agree with each other.

Speaker 7 (01:41:42):
And there's no there's I mean nothing that justifies docs
in a kid's school. Are you fucking kidding me?

Speaker 4 (01:41:48):
Like the schools, So they think that she attends that
we have had to put on right what because I mean,
it's ridiculous all because I have very strong feets about
these two issues. It's not rational to hate at all.

Speaker 8 (01:42:06):
So I mean, even with me and you, Laura, we've had,
you know, our disagreements on things and even then like yeah,
we just say all right, we disagree and we move on.
It's like it's like, never in whats do I think
of being lord disagree on this? Oh so I'm gonna
I'm gonna dock and try to ruin her life. I'm like,
what the hell? Like that's not that's that doesn't People.

Speaker 4 (01:42:27):
Are not even trying to like ruin my life like
a career wise or anything. They're not going after the
media group that I work for that, I actually work for.
They are actually trying to get me hurt or killed.

Speaker 7 (01:42:40):
Hey, that sounds cool like to me.

Speaker 4 (01:42:43):
I mean they probably would very well qualify here soon.

Speaker 2 (01:42:48):
But I mean, I mean, I actually have a police
report out. I'm going to check back in on that Tuesday.
Worts open up, and one of them is probably actually
about to be arrested because she is publicly saying if
you want her information, I'll give it to you.

Speaker 7 (01:43:03):
Yikes. Yikes.

Speaker 4 (01:43:05):
Yeah, It's it's been absoluticulous and stressful.

Speaker 7 (01:43:08):
And and it's one thing. It's one thing to like
help somebody find somebody that's committed a crime or that
has like you know, gotten away with something and they're
on the run, they're a fugitive or whatever. But it's
a number for to put somebody in harm's way that's
never done anything wrong. You know, it's never harmed, anybody

(01:43:30):
that's never committed a crime. That's just like tweeting, you know. Damn.

Speaker 2 (01:43:35):
I mean all of this was because I disagree with
them on these two main issues, and like one of them,
the main girl I'm not going to name and everything,
is saying she told me to abort my child, like
for I want to ask you, since you disagree with
me big time promotion, does that ever be if she
says that I told her her son should have been

(01:43:55):
because he identifies as a woman today, does that sound
like something I would never say something?

Speaker 7 (01:44:00):
Now, you never would tell anybody to aboard ever, I
have not.

Speaker 2 (01:44:05):
Like I don't even like it when her life is
in danger, but at least I understand the necessity of
that right right, Like that is the only circumstance I
would ever say.

Speaker 4 (01:44:14):
Okay, you know this sucks, but I get it.

Speaker 7 (01:44:17):
Yeah, I don't you telling somebody to aboard somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
Because they a woman now, Like, no, I'm not going
to tell her that she.

Speaker 4 (01:44:24):
Should have awarded that kid, because absolutely not.

Speaker 7 (01:44:27):
No.

Speaker 8 (01:44:27):
Yeah, I mean it's sort of like how people would
say that, Uh but the whole the whole thing about
saying that they want to find out if like homosexuality
is genetic in the will or something, and people would
say that that hardcore Christians, I could say, would say
that if I knew that my child was gay like

(01:44:48):
in the womb, we would have gotten aboard.

Speaker 2 (01:44:50):
I Like this woman was actually asking other Christians like, oh, well,
what if you knew the child was going to be gay, Like, look,
you don't get to ask that question because you are
the one saying that it was still be that woman's
right to abort her child.

Speaker 4 (01:45:02):
For that reason. Yeah, Like, no, you don't get to
try to turn this around on us, because we're gonna
say no, you're the one saying that she still has
that right, and you will fight for her right to
do that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:13):
Whether her child is gay, whether her child is trans,
whether that's just like black or white or whatever whatever
other race, you are going to say, yes, it's her
right to abort for that specifically. So no, like, it
was absolutely absurd of her to be asking that question
of a Christian.

Speaker 8 (01:45:32):
Woman like yeah, and especially like born. And it's not
like you're the whole fundamentalist that's saying claim for the
government to kill the gage, Like you're much more you know,
laid back on that. So you're the first kind of
person to ask that too.

Speaker 2 (01:45:49):
I am very live and let live, Like as long
as what you were doing. My motto in life is
do whatever floats your boat, as long as it doesn't
sink mine or anyone else's, Like, long as.

Speaker 4 (01:46:00):
We're not harming or killing another human being. I really
don't actually care what you're doing, and I want the
government to adhere to that too.

Speaker 8 (01:46:10):
Yeah and yeah, I mean, and that's what I think
is the whole thing where you get these I think
a lot of times cults are very reactionary where they're
reacting to an element of the culture, sort of what
Jim Jones in some ways was doing, because you have
this one side of the very racist aisle that was,

(01:46:31):
you know, using Christianity as a means of saying that
black people aren't humans and they're going to destroy this.
And then as a reaction to that, Jim Jones is
able to just come in, oh, look I have this
benevolent thing and just join me. And he starts out on.

Speaker 4 (01:46:47):
The other side of this. See, y'all just follow me.

Speaker 2 (01:46:52):
Yeah, I mean, these people, they are absolutely predatory.

Speaker 7 (01:46:56):
Oh yeah, I agree with that. Predatory is I think
earlier on saying would distinguish a coldly a follower of
like a leader of a following that isn't necessarily harmful.
I think being predatory would be one of those stand out.

Speaker 4 (01:47:12):
Yeah, I think I think that's key. Yeah, Like, you
are absolutely using other people for your own gain, and
you know you're doing it.

Speaker 8 (01:47:21):
Yeah, I think you could say that's a bit of
a difference when it comes to groupies, because these celebrities
are often very just trying to get the talented talent.
You have these groupies that are just standing out there.
Not to be fair, you couldn't make the argument that
sometimes they absolutely do call for it and you you're
gob right off some occasies. But sometimes you know, they
don't have to say or do anything that groupies just
come to them, So you could say it's not It

(01:47:42):
could be predatory either way. So hey, it's reciprocal predatory.

Speaker 2 (01:47:48):
Yeah, for at least the groupie versus like you know
who they're targeting. I think that's very like like the
face was saying earlier, like very symbiotic, very mutualistic. They're
using each other in that scenario and the other one another.
But to me, that doesn't really fall under like Colt

(01:48:10):
for what we're talking about.

Speaker 5 (01:48:15):
That's just human nature because all you're doing is look
what I did. You know, it's something to brag about. Yeah,
comes to the other side of it as being the giver,
h it's supposed to the receiver. It's the same thing.
It's like you're still getting something out of it. So,
like you said, it's there's no cult aspect.

Speaker 4 (01:48:35):
To that, it will be dynamic.

Speaker 5 (01:48:37):
That's this human debauchery, you know, that's just what that's
his nature right there.

Speaker 4 (01:48:44):
Yeah, I would agree with that. The whole group of
dynamic doesn't fall under.

Speaker 5 (01:48:49):
Now, when you look at a cult and it's usually
led by men, it seems like it always leads to sets.

Speaker 2 (01:48:55):
Yeah, I mean any kind of like Apple White, Jim Jones, Manson,
David kros not centric, but they all abuse their female followers,
like even as far as children.

Speaker 5 (01:49:12):
Yeah, it always seems to go to that down that
that just about every time it goes down that road
when it comes to that, because I think it's more
of a power thing. You know too well.

Speaker 4 (01:49:22):
Rape always is more about power than it is about sex.

Speaker 5 (01:49:25):
So when you got these mind brainwashing that goes along
with the colts, you get these women who think that
you know that they're chosen, that they're special by this.
So it's just another form of I said that the
sex normally lasts, I mean it doesn't start until later
on in the fire.

Speaker 2 (01:49:43):
Brainwashing has to follow first because they have to conquer
the mind before they can conquer them, and that's what
it is, is conquering for at least the men leaders control. Yeah,
I've got power over your entire mind.

Speaker 4 (01:49:58):
Now now I'm going to take your b.

Speaker 8 (01:50:01):
Yeah, that sounds a lot like that sounds typical of
abusive relationship in general. And that's sort of how like
I've actually looked up, like what's the differences between male
and female abusers, like like female on male and male
on female abusers and typically speaking, although there are course
of exceptions that like men male like abusers, they tend

(01:50:24):
to lead with their strength and like they inflict mental
damage through their physicality. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:50:31):
Absolutely, I've lived through this, so I can attest to
this well.

Speaker 8 (01:50:35):
I mean, obviously I don't want to say that's every
person's experience. It could I know, except yeah, and so
for men, typically they leave, they do mental damage through
their physicality, whereas with female on male abusers, they tend
it tends to be where they focus on the mentality
first to get to the man to the state where
they won't fight back, and then they go to.

Speaker 4 (01:50:57):
Are inherently more emotional and men are so yes, we're
going to go after that. That's why you see these
There was a teacher just recently in the news where she.

Speaker 2 (01:51:08):
Had actually been impregnated by her fifteen year old students,
and he has come out now as an adult saying,
you know, she doesn't need to be sentenced, like, you know,
she needs to be released. It was I came on
to her, okay, but she was still the adult situation
like if, okay, our daughter is fifteen years old, if

(01:51:29):
one of her male friends were to come on to
me or something, I'm going to immediately shut this shit down.
And every parent involved like like, okay, this is you know,
this is not okay, because I'm the adult in the situation.

Speaker 4 (01:51:42):
I'm the one who knows better.

Speaker 2 (01:51:44):
Like you're fifteen year hormonal, Like I get it that,
you know, that's fine, the luss and everything like that's
just gonna happen because you're a teenage boy. Like that
just happens. But you don't have to pray on that.
You do not have to encourage it.

Speaker 8 (01:52:00):
Yeah, what people don't think about is like kids, they're
not very long term thinkers. They're not, but they're also
not like like kids like when they're fourteen or fifteen
years old, they're not thinking, how is thirty five year
old be going to think about this, They're not.

Speaker 4 (01:52:18):
Okay, I can say this.

Speaker 2 (01:52:20):
I'll be thirty eight in July, and I'm sitting here
thinking the life I have right now is so much better,
but so different than what I saw for myself at
fifteen sixteen years old.

Speaker 8 (01:52:32):
Yeah, and that's the sort of the thing is like
when kids are that age, they're not thinking like long term,
like how is thirty or forty year old them going
to feel about what they're doing now. They're thinking about
like what's immediately pleasurable to me at this moment. And
you know, you have a kid, so you know this
well that sometimes what your kid wants, you know, yeah,
you really shouldn't be giving them that. Like they'll say

(01:52:54):
like I want to I want to eat a whole
gallon of ice cream and and you know sicky it.

Speaker 2 (01:53:02):
Yeah, I mean, we have to be able. That's a
lot of problem with parents, especially these days. They don't
want their kids to be mad at them or upset
with them or anything, so they they stop parenting and
they start trying to be a friend. I'm the only
mother that my daughter is ever gonna have. Daniel is
the only father she's ever gonna have. She's gonna have
all the friends she can ever want. But we are

(01:53:25):
her parents. We are the parents that she's got and
this is this is what it is. So we have
to actually be the parents, and we have to be
able to say no even when it pisses her off.

Speaker 4 (01:53:37):
And I mean that's just that's parenthood.

Speaker 8 (01:53:41):
Yeah, and I mean, I mean, I'm sure everyone. And
this is where it does go with the toules, like
because the cult leaders also tend to like impulsive people,
like people that make decisions like on a split like second,
because those people can be you can get them to
the cult and you can be Pickett looked larger for

(01:54:02):
a while and you can attract more people.

Speaker 2 (01:54:06):
An impulsive person is way more easy to manipulate.

Speaker 7 (01:54:11):
That's a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:54:12):
You're going to be able to present them something that
sounds good to them in the short term.

Speaker 5 (01:54:16):
That's why most fault leaders are men and most followers
are women, because women's going to follow over their emotions
and more are more logical.

Speaker 2 (01:54:24):
Yeah, I mean you actually see this play out. The
men are the male cult leaders and everything are very
very strategic. The women and we are going to cover
some women who are in charge of cults and everything.
The women, at least one of them that I know of,
overcompensates with shows of aggression and shows of strength and everything,

(01:54:44):
but she actually has others carry that out. But she
has emotionally manipulated those men into feeling like they are
her chosen ones.

Speaker 5 (01:54:54):
Are the men leaders too, you talk about being more
of a physical threat. They normally take control of the
bodies of their men followers as well.

Speaker 8 (01:55:04):
Of them.

Speaker 5 (01:55:04):
You're talking about they have to have a circumcision. In
some cases they had to be castrated, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:55:09):
Or they sometimes will actually take the wife right in
front of them.

Speaker 5 (01:55:13):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, that they'll claim their wives
or their daughters. In some cases they will tell them
if there's punishment to be dealt out. It normally goes
against the men's first.

Speaker 4 (01:55:26):
And against people that they love.

Speaker 5 (01:55:27):
Yeah, so they're definitely as a man. As a male
cult leader, it is physically. There's emotional and psychological abuse
in manipulation, but there's a lot of more physical as well.
Whereas the women cult leaders, it starts off more of
a emotional and psychological manipulation. And yes there is physical
as the manipulation and punishment but like you said, they

(01:55:50):
normally use men to carry that out.

Speaker 2 (01:55:52):
And the men that they used to carry that out,
they established that emotional connection first and reinforce it with
physical so that means that they're usually sleeping with their
quote unquote enforcers to make them like have that to
build that connection and say, you know, hey, if you
keep doing all these things for me and everything, this
is how I show my love and my gratitude to Yeah.

(01:56:15):
And sometimes it's not even her doing the sleeping around,
Like she'll get some.

Speaker 4 (01:56:19):
Of the other female members of the cult and gift.

Speaker 5 (01:56:21):
That Yeah, Locktimes leader culture is not her to use it,
subordinates and followers to do that as well.

Speaker 2 (01:56:29):
And she's actually emotionally manipulated those females as women, those
girls into thinking that they're doing something good.

Speaker 8 (01:56:37):
It tends to be like I see a lot of
female leaders of these colts. They tend to be older
women and sort of what they lean on to get
younger women because they say, look, I'm the older here,
I know I know what's best for you as a
younger one. Because you know, women do tend to want
I mean people generally, but women even more so. They
have a reverence for age, and they want to go

(01:57:01):
to their elderly elderly women for guidance and the as speaking.

Speaker 2 (01:57:08):
As a woman, yeah, I mean I would say that
we do look to older women and everything like, especially
for advice.

Speaker 5 (01:57:15):
Yeah, that in general, it's all across the entire world
where elders to listen to and follow and respect our elders.
Nowadays and age it's not near as popular as it
used to be, but still that's kind of a across.

Speaker 2 (01:57:30):
The board, especially in Western culture, like in America and
places like that, Like you've seen almost a demasculization of men.
So younger men are not looking to their elders for advice,
for guidance or anything like that because they're thinking.

Speaker 4 (01:57:48):
Okay, well you're a dude, like you know what, do
you know?

Speaker 8 (01:57:51):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:57:54):
Actually could we may actually could see in the future
now see.

Speaker 2 (01:58:00):
More prominent colts come out and everything that have a
female leader because of that, because people are looking for nurturing,
they're looking for comfort, they're looking for support, they're looking
for that emotional guidance.

Speaker 5 (01:58:12):
The gum leftist cray baby Snowflakes is even ruining.

Speaker 7 (01:58:17):
My god, god dang it.

Speaker 8 (01:58:22):
De I cult leaders I'm like, can we not have one.

Speaker 2 (01:58:26):
Thing about say I think basically all y'all are like
white men, straight white men, So y'all are the most
evil people in existence right now? Why am I then
having you.

Speaker 4 (01:58:39):
On my show?

Speaker 8 (01:58:40):
Like they're on the victim hierarchy, you're still higher than
like you're right under us. So I mean, I mean
like you're still up there. You're like the second wrong
so you'ut that far down you still.

Speaker 4 (01:59:01):
You know that.

Speaker 5 (01:59:03):
As far as the colts though, I mean next week
when we start over, we're basically just going to do
the show.

Speaker 4 (01:59:10):
Well, we'll rehouse the high points and then we'll.

Speaker 3 (01:59:12):
Go into the second hour, we'll go into one of
the current show current.

Speaker 2 (01:59:18):
I don't know that we'll have that many updates since
it is go ongoing and authorities are still you know,
mitigating and searching for these people, so it may actually
be like we'll start off with the one show or
the one cult and then we'll just do a kind
of a deep dive into a second one.

Speaker 3 (01:59:33):
Yeah, and that'll be next not two weeks, but yeah,
immediate Saturday.

Speaker 4 (01:59:39):
We're going to every Saturday for the series.

Speaker 5 (01:59:41):
From seven nine pm Central Time, and we'll pick back
up on the cult show. But we're going to end
this live or this stream because we're a little over
two hours now. Now, if you want to re up
a new one and keep talking about whatever you want
to talk about, s fine around two hours of the show.

Speaker 7 (01:59:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:59:58):
But yeah, as far as cults go, like I said,
we're starting this series and it could be a few weeks.
I don't know how long it's gonna take, but I
want to look at a real serious, in depth looks
on them in the shows.

Speaker 4 (02:00:13):
Yeah, definitely deep dives coming up into specific uns.

Speaker 3 (02:00:16):
Yeah, so this was kind of a good opener, but
let's say we'll revisit a.

Speaker 4 (02:00:21):
Lot of the discussion. Actually brought up some good points
we could bring up in other episodes of.

Speaker 3 (02:00:26):
Yeah stuff too.

Speaker 5 (02:00:27):
So yeah, next week, the first hour will be basically
going back over this show, and then the second hour
will start on the current active, active cult up that's
gone right now, and hopefully we'll have some more breaking
news and updates about what's going on with it.

Speaker 2 (02:00:44):
Yeah, because that one again, multiple people have been killed
because of this cult right now. Yeah, there they are
now involved in serial murder. So yeah, hopefully by next week,
you know, I've been Andy know has.

Speaker 4 (02:01:01):
Been tracking them.

Speaker 2 (02:01:03):
I'll link my Twitter article about him or twitchy article
about him, because I link a lot of his sweets
and everything, so you can follow along with him.

Speaker 4 (02:01:11):
And we are actively tracking this right now.

Speaker 5 (02:01:14):
And you know easy to find Andy and Andy ngo
and he's on X of course he's got a YouTube
channel with the same name. Pretty interesting stuff on this overall,
but on this specific case we're about talked about, he's
got a lot of that cover. We'll be going off
of his reporting very very heavily on that sweech up.

Speaker 2 (02:01:34):
Yeah, he's been covering this extensively, so all updates and everything,
and we'll obviously.

Speaker 4 (02:01:39):
Get him the credit for him.

Speaker 5 (02:01:40):
But yeah, so anyways, it was a good icebreaker just
starting the colts and we'll tet you all that actually
joined this and his recording so they will be availability
go back and listen to it later.

Speaker 2 (02:01:53):
Yeah, we'll get with our producers to put it on
anywhere you get a podcasts.

Speaker 5 (02:01:57):
So please share it with your friends and family and
even people you don't like. I don't care, but spread
the word and let's get us out there. If you
want to tell them where they can find.

Speaker 4 (02:02:07):
You at Uh yeah, I'm bumps Dog Barty here on X.

Speaker 2 (02:02:11):
It's really only family and friends that have me on
Facebook and Instagram. But I also write for twitchy, which
again I have now a newdal about the newest hold
and everything.

Speaker 4 (02:02:22):
So I can link that later.

Speaker 5 (02:02:24):
That's tweitchy on X and twitchy dot com and.

Speaker 2 (02:02:26):
My yeah, my Twitchy articles are all linked in my bio,
so you can go read through every single thing I've
written for Twitchy.

Speaker 5 (02:02:33):
H we're both here on KLRI and radio dot com.
Uh tonight, we want, but the recording should be added
to it later. On front parts for insics, and we
are on X.

Speaker 4 (02:02:45):
It is f P Underscore Forensics f.

Speaker 5 (02:02:49):
P Underscore for Insics.

Speaker 8 (02:02:51):
On X.

Speaker 3 (02:02:53):
We don't really have a I mean, we have YouTube channel.

Speaker 4 (02:02:56):
And building other social media.

Speaker 5 (02:02:58):
We have a YouTube channel and a uh tik talk,
but we don't really we're not active on that stuff yet.
But eventually went ahead and started on so nobody else
will get the name. And then I'm just bump stot
ken on it. That's really all I do, and I
don't even do that much anymore.

Speaker 2 (02:03:12):
So but yeah, face like, it was actually good to
actually speak to you this time, so I get to
put a voice with a screen everything.

Speaker 5 (02:03:22):
Oh another, spread the word to everybody that we can
be found on our front porch strings.

Speaker 4 (02:03:28):
It's on Spotify and everywhere you get podcasts.

Speaker 5 (02:03:31):
Anywhere you get podcasts, you can look us up there
and find us and all our shows, and you can
go back and listen and listen and share and click
and uh, let's help this thing.

Speaker 4 (02:03:41):
I say, that's the easiest way you can help out
a little bit.

Speaker 7 (02:03:45):
All right, good night y'all, and thanks for having me.

Speaker 4 (02:03:50):
Yeah, no problem.