FPF The One About Cults pt 6 Helter Skelter

Episode Transcript

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Guys, maybe we feel Just listen to a lot of
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Speaker 9 (04:59):
Uh fun time. Probably very loosely because he only got
into true crime like after a couple of years of
marriage at least. Yeah, so I rubbed off on you, but.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Easy now, oh ol day.

Speaker 11 (05:15):
But this tonight's episode is the one about Colt. This
is part six, Part six Helter Skelter, So I know
a lot of you fans out there is going to
pick them on that immediately.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
What this episode's going to be about now, Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 9 (05:31):
When you talk Colts, this is like this name comes
up immediately. Oh yeah, always every time, Like you got
Jim Jones and you've got Charlie Manson, and we did
Jim Jones last week, so.

Speaker 11 (05:44):
So now it's not his Charles Manson and his family
and we got a lot of material to go through.
So I'm thinking it's going to hand it off to
you and we're going to try to.

Speaker 9 (05:57):
Burn through a lot of the details of this pretty quick.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
I will interject as needed or if you need me
to say something, you know.

Speaker 9 (06:04):
Even questions that you have, because like I think I've
gone way more in depth in this than like most
people did. Oh yeah, but that's me in general.

Speaker 11 (06:15):
Thanks for joining us, Get your friends to come join,
to jump in the chats so we can see what
everybody's talking about, and up a live chat.

Speaker 9 (06:25):
Up on my computer so I can see what all
you're saying. So if anybody's got questions, comments or anything,
you'all just jump right in.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah we will, We'll add to it.

Speaker 9 (06:34):
And this is I mean, it's called front porchs Forensics
for a reason. This is us just hanging out and
talking about these things.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yep.

Speaker 9 (06:43):
So yeah, let's just dive right in. Charles Manson was
born actually Charles Maddox in nineteen thirty four November twelfth,
nineteen thirty four. His mother was actually Kathleen matt and
she was a sixteen year old prostitute at the time

(07:06):
who had major substance abuse issues. He was born in Cincinnati, Ohio.
He actually his life did not get off to a
very good start, Like from the very beginning, we are
talking about a very very troubled boy. Daniel actually even

(07:27):
found out something as a six year old in school
and everything Charlie because again, his mother had her own issues,
was a teenage unwed mother and everything. The father is
actually kind of unknown that it was the only thing
I could find was quote unquote Colonel Scott from Kentucky

(07:51):
was all I could find on the actual biological father.
But yeah, again because of the mother's quote unquoe of profession,
I guess, and her substance abuse issues. I mean, she
was an alcoholic, she was a drug user. So Charlie
did not have the.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Best childhood, No, not at all.

Speaker 9 (08:12):
And we actually see something coming to play very early
on when he was six years old.

Speaker 11 (08:18):
Oh yeah, he was always in trouble as a kid
at school. But and it's funny because this comes back
to play in his actual defense before he goes to prison,
to the same defense. One day on the playground, three girls,

(08:44):
remember these is five and six year olds beat up
a little boy on the playground and when the principal
and teachers broke it all up. And the principal and
the teachers broke it all up, and they was asking
the girls swine the world, would you beat up this
little boy?

Speaker 2 (08:59):
And said, well, because Charlie told us to. He wanted
us to.

Speaker 11 (09:04):
And so they went and got little Charlie and said, hey,
did you tell these.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Little did you make these little girls beat up this
little boy? And Charles Charlie's defense was like, hey, they
only did what they wanted to do, so that and
that comes back into play later on because he uses
that same defense again.

Speaker 9 (09:24):
Three girls that it.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Was here, three or five girls. I don't remember that,
but I think.

Speaker 9 (09:28):
It was the main ones that everybody knows about was
three girls. But I just think that that's so prophetic
in no way, because I mean, that's six years fun. Sorry,
Miko is very vocal.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
Tonight apparently to say so.

Speaker 9 (09:52):
But yeah, I mean at six years old, this boy
knew already how to manipulate others into doing what he
wanted them to do.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, And like you said, he and from the very
very early age. So if he was already into at six,
you know, he was already learning these skills.

Speaker 9 (10:13):
And you have to keep in mind this was probably
very early on that age, and everything was a survival
mechanism for him because again dad was unknown. She was
like Mom, was an unwed mother at the time, in
a teenage unwed mother, addicted to alcohol, addicted to drugs,
she was in prostitution. This was how this little boy

(10:37):
learned how to survive because manipulating other people for his
own personal gain meant that he he lived like he
made it to the next day, every single day. So
there is that part of me that I kind of
go back to the nature versus nurture thing. I think

(10:59):
that there is a part of him that actually was
born this way because nobody gets that good at something
so naturally if it isn't natural to them itself.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
And that early too.

Speaker 11 (11:10):
Survival instincts, yes, sor a real thing, but already manipulate
to that level at age six.

Speaker 9 (11:15):
And I mean we kind of saw this last week
when we talked about Jim Jones too, because from a
very early age he was playing church, he was playing
preacher and you know, congregation and all this kind of stuff,
So we see this almost it comes into play very
very early on. But yeah, his father unknown. All that

(11:40):
I ever found on that was a quote Colonel Scott
who is from Kentucky. That's all I know about his
biological father. But then his mother Kathleen ends up marrying
another man, William Manson, and it's at age twelve when

(12:00):
Charlie himself is first placed into a boy's home, which
is what we would consider now like a juvenile facility.
I don't know what exactly got him landed there, but
I just kind of assume it was home life type
of stuff, like they had nowhere else to put.

Speaker 11 (12:18):
Him, I would imagine, So I don't have any details
on that either.

Speaker 9 (12:23):
He tried, actually repeatedly going back to his mother, but
kept getting rejected, and that's how he ended up living
on the streets, and he would get by through various
petty crimes like theft.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
You know.

Speaker 9 (12:37):
He he was actually still a teenager when he was
first arrested in nineteen forty eight for the burglary of
a grocery store and then he was sent to Juby.
But I assume, and again I could be very wrong.
I mean, that burglary and everything could have just been
because he wanted the thrill of it. But I assume
since it was a grocery store, the dude was just

(12:57):
trying to eat.

Speaker 11 (12:58):
I imagine, So don't how being he I don't have
any details to say otherwise. But yeah, just using logic
and piecing together, I'm sure there was probably some thrill
involved in it. But yeah, again, he was basically surviving
on his own for the most part.

Speaker 9 (13:18):
Like I said, I mean, his mother, we don't have
a lot of information on her because she just wasn't present, and.

Speaker 11 (13:24):
We see that a lot and other cult leaders and
serial killers and things like that too.

Speaker 9 (13:30):
So yeah, it's it is a documented pathology.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
At this point, the family dynamic matters.

Speaker 9 (13:39):
Yeah. Now, after again, this is him as a teenager.
He's been arrested in nineteen forty eight for the burglary
of that grocery store. He sent a juvie. Now he
escapes from that juvenile facility, he commits two armed robberies
and is arrested again, and then he spends the next
three years in the Indiana School for Boys in Plainfield,

(14:04):
and he actually escaped from there. From the Indiana School
for Boys, he escapes there eighteen times. He runs away.

Speaker 11 (14:14):
You know, you think about after I don't know, fourteen,
they might start watching him a little closer.

Speaker 9 (14:19):
I mean they probably I don't know anything about that
school at the time, but there were probably so many
other boys with the same kind of troubles and everything,
and the same kind of like disciplinary issues that sometimes
some of them just fall through the cracks. Yeah, I
mean he probably even didn't have the worst disciplinary issues

(14:43):
they're among those other boys. Because I would assume that
this school, this jubye as I call it, I would
assume that this probably starts from a very early age
up until about seventeen eighteen years old when they're a
legal adult and they have to be.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Kicked out and then have to move somewhere else. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (15:02):
Yeah, we'll fast forward. Like I said, we're going to
burn through a lot of the timeline fairly quickly. So
I'm going to go to nineteen fifty one, when he's
seventeen years old. This is his final escape from the
boy's home and he flees west in a stolen car.
He robs what they what they guess is fifteen to

(15:23):
twenty gas stations along the way. He's caught in Utah.
He's sent to the National Training School for Boys in Washington,
d C. A psychiatrist at this point who has evaluated him,
calls Manson a slick but extremely sensitive boy, which I
do want to make note of that slick but extremely

(15:47):
sensitive that means that there is some level of empathy there.
But I mentioned this last week when we did Jim Jones.
A lack of empathy is characteristic of the anti social
personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder. It is a trait

(16:08):
of a psychopath, what we would generally call a psychopath.
This actually, the lack of empathy can either be a
conscious choice to either ignore the feelings the needs of
others or to use the knowledge of their feelings and
needs for their own personal gain. Yes, because again he

(16:30):
was described as a slick but extremely sensitive boy. So yes,
he was able to pick up on the emotions of others.
He was able to read them, and he was able
to use them even as a teenager at this point.

Speaker 11 (16:46):
And I think too that and you can see it
in some of the things the way he acted.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Too, that he wasn't one.

Speaker 11 (16:53):
Of these cold, calculated and emotionless people.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
He was full of all kinds of emotions.

Speaker 9 (16:58):
Oh yeah, I mean he was very angry sometimes, I mean,
and he was able to hone in especially at this
time period in the US and everything, which I'll kind
of touch on later. But this is like getting into
the early sixties into the seventies and everything, when this

(17:20):
hippie movement was going on, when all these very young
people like sometimes even still miners, were runaways and they
were leaving home and they were fleeing to California.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
California was the place to be the summer of love.
You know.

Speaker 9 (17:33):
What I've always heard and was still one of the
best descriptions to me, is at the time that like
all these murders happened, that was the death of the
age of Aquarius.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, the word they said that the Manson murderers killed.

Speaker 9 (17:51):
Yeah, that was the end of it. That was the
end of like the free love hippie movement kind of deal.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
And one of the when the Tape murders, the Manson
murders happened there, California had one of the biggest quickest
spots of gun ownership and guard dogs.

Speaker 9 (18:11):
And well we also have to keep in mind too,
this was at the time the Black Panther Party and
that movement was coming up racial tensions.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
But for that area of Hollywood, it spots.

Speaker 9 (18:24):
Oh yeah, absolutely, Because we got to keep in mind,
we're like generally in the San Francisco area of California.
Towards the end of this. So yeah, the last act
of criminal violence before the murders was actually in nineteen
fifty two where Charlie actually rapes another boy, like in

(18:46):
the in the Jubye and everything, he actually rapes another
boy while holding a razor to his throat.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Kind of made me worry there for a minute when
he said raped him in the pause, like what.

Speaker 9 (18:57):
Now, I'm not going into that much detail. Oh, and
I do have to go ahead and warn people. We're
going to be cycling through some photos and everything, and
some of them actually are crime scene photos, and I've
chosen the ones that are kind of censored and blurred
out a bit, but they are still.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Like, I mean, very graphic.

Speaker 9 (19:20):
Honestly, these were brutal knife murders, so there's nothing pretty
about this case. So well, fair warning ahead of time.

Speaker 11 (19:29):
The photos, the photos you chose for what it was,
they are on the same side, but they are you know,
you can see the blood and all that kind of stuff,
So definitely there's a warning there for that.

Speaker 9 (19:41):
I say, I know at least both of our parents,
our sex of parents and everything they have, they have
a harder time listening to our show when it's more
graphic and yes, those photos are going to be more graphic.
So Mama's daddy, if you're listening like y'all, this might
not be the one for you. So I'll just I'll

(20:02):
go ahead and say that, because as we cycle through
some of those photos, they're not they're rough. I mean,
these are crime scene photos. There's no way to sugarcoat
that at all. Yeah. So, in nineteen fifty two, Manson
rapes another boy holding a razor to his throat.

Speaker 11 (20:24):
And when you say boys, not a child, it's just
around the same age if him.

Speaker 9 (20:28):
Yeah, we assume that this was kind of the same
age and everything, because this was all in the boy's home,
the boy's prisons and everything, the juvenile facilities that they
were in. That's where this happened. So from there, Charlie's
transferred to the Federal Reformatory in Petersburg, Virginia, later this

(20:49):
same year, so we're still in nineteen fifty two here.
Later this same year, he's actually moved to a more
secure facility in Ohio. And I couldn't find the name
of that one, but he's moved from Virginia to Ohio.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
At this point, I had that somewhere, but it doesn't matter.
He's in Ohio now.

Speaker 9 (21:06):
So we're gonna go to nineteen fifty five. Manson now
marries like he's out and everything he's he's out. He
marries Rosalie Willis, who was a waitress at the time.
They have one child, who is Charles Manson Junior at
this time Charlie Manson dad and everything our focus here.

(21:28):
He is working as a parking lot attendant and I
think also a bus boy at a restaurant at the time,
but as a parking lot attendant he's arrested for stealing
cars and he gets five years probation for this. So
we're seeing this boy from a very early age, a
not at six years old being like incarcerated in any form,

(21:48):
but we're already seeing this kind of start to play out.
We're seeing this personality developed. So as he gets older
and everything, he's starting to increasingly get a star that
you engage in more legal activities, which actually does land
him in juby.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Now you say it escalates slowly, that builds, you know, his.

Speaker 9 (22:12):
I don't know. There's a part of me that thinks
that he might have been testing boundaries at this point.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, and that's where I was headed with it. It's
like you see it escalating slowly. At this point.

Speaker 11 (22:21):
His crimes are some pretty intense moments versus some.

Speaker 9 (22:26):
Smaller momentsgious petty stuff.

Speaker 11 (22:29):
But it makes it. It's a continuation. It never really stops,
it goes and it continues to grow. Like you said,
it's I think each scenario, each situation he's in, he started,
he starts testing his limits where he is at the
time and what he can get away with.

Speaker 9 (22:45):
Okay, So now we're going into nineteen fifty six, where
Manson has actually sent us to three years in San Pedro,
California for violating the terms of the nineteen fifty five
probation for stealing cars grand theft auto. Basically, at this
point he has violated that probation. Now he's sentenced in
California for three years. So we're going to go into

(23:09):
fifty eight. Rosalie has divorced Manson at this point, but
she has retained custody of their son, of Charlie Junior. Basically,
he's released on parole at this point, and he actually
becomes a penth in southern California.

Speaker 11 (23:27):
Well, when he was in the jail, that's who he
hung out with. He actually learned that trade while in prison.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (23:34):
The thing is, I think that's another thing from Juvie
and in you know, these early years of prison and everything.
This was not rehabilitating for him whatsoever. He was learning,
he was adjusting her. It's ridiculous. So in nineteen fifty nine,

(23:55):
he's arrested again for forging a check, and he gets
a ten year suspended sentence, which just means that's your sentence,
like it's not enforced unless you actually break a different law,
you commit a different crime within that specified time frames.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
It's kind of like parole without the parole officer, kind of.

Speaker 9 (24:17):
Yeah, you don't have to check in with anybody. But
I mean it was ten years. So nineteen fifty nine.

Speaker 11 (24:22):
It's the ultimate speeding warning. Yeah, yeah, you get that
spending warning if they can't see for anything.

Speaker 9 (24:27):
Else within that ten years. Yeah, within that ten years,
if you do something else, you're going to be arrested
and you're going to serve that ten years. Now, So
this is this is what's happened. He was arrested for
forging a check. It's a ten year suspended sentence. So
now we're in nineteen sixty he has remarried.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Oh do you know how he got that suspended sentence held?
Why it didn't go throw them in jail? I know
Charlie had petitioned some people he met in prison and
while he was in jail waiting on this sentence, and
to write notes on his behalf, in which he did too,
talking about how great he was and what an outstanding

(25:08):
person he is and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 9 (25:10):
Yeah, keep in mind of this time, he's already kind
of gaining followers.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Right.

Speaker 11 (25:16):
And then this one girl, Leona Stevens So, who will
talk about in a second, right.

Speaker 9 (25:23):
She also went by the nickname Candy.

Speaker 11 (25:25):
So writes a note on there and a letter to
the judge claiming that he that she and he and
Charlie were just married and was pregnant. And the judge
took all that in consideration, and she actually testified in
front of the judge and just cried the water works,

(25:47):
made this whole big bess about it. Show the judge
actually felt for him, and he allowed and that's why
he suspended the sentence.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Now that was sympathy.

Speaker 9 (25:57):
I mean they took the heartstrings hard.

Speaker 11 (25:59):
Yeah, And that was in fifty nine. And now you're
about to move to nineteen sixty where they actually do
get married, and then later that year they have a child.

Speaker 9 (26:08):
And yeah, Leona at this time they get married, is
nineteen years old.

Speaker 11 (26:12):
Yes, and Leona is one of his prostitutes basically, yeah,
well not basically, that's why she is.

Speaker 9 (26:21):
And he was one of the quote unquote sex workers
that he was pimping out basically, and this now we're
only a year after he gets his suspended.

Speaker 11 (26:33):
And yeah, and in fifty nine they were dating, still
pimping her out, but dating, and that's why she went
to bat for him, so to speak. And I don't
know if he actually married her to reward her for
doing that or what.

Speaker 9 (26:46):
But well, the reward system is very very common in
the leader of follower dynamic there.

Speaker 11 (26:51):
So I think he made his number one quote air
quoting here his wife. But in fifty nine they were dating,
but not may and they did not she wasn't even pregnant.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
That came later in nineteen sixty.

Speaker 9 (27:05):
Yeah, Yeah, they get married in nineteen sixty. She's nineteen
years old at this time. But he also ends up
getting arrested for violating the Man Act of nineteen ten,
which essentially it was also called the White Slave Traffic Act,
and it made it illegal to transport women and girls
for quote unquote immoral purposes, which essentially these are human

(27:29):
trafficking walls, like you could not transport these women and
girls for the purposes of sex.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
When it was made yes.

Speaker 9 (27:41):
Against the Yeah, that's exactly what it was, called the
White Slave Traffic Act of nineteen ten, but it was
the Man Act in May n n Yeah, and he
Charlie is actually now arrested in Laredo, Texas, and he's
transported back to California where he now has to serve
out the ten your sentence that was suspended in nineteen

(28:02):
fifty nine, because remember, he violated another law right after
he was he got his suspended sentence. So we're in
nineteen sixty one. Now Charlie's transferred to a federal penitentiary
at McNeill Island, and at this time he claims to
be a scientologist, So we have a scientology reference there,

(28:27):
because in nineteen sixty one, Charlie Manson said he was
a scientologist.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Oh really, so Charlie Manson decided he was gonna be
a scientologist.

Speaker 9 (28:37):
Y'all can go hang out. Sorry, they're home so we're
sending them away now because this is rough. Yeah, he
claims to be a scientologist. He is at a federal
penitentiary at McNeil Island at this point. A prison psychiatrists
now describe him as having deep seated personality issues, which

(29:00):
to me is one of those no crap moments.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
I'm sorry, I was dealing with the children's what you
say that?

Speaker 9 (29:08):
At this time, the prison psychiatrist described him as having
deep seated personality issues.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Charlie, No, I don't know. I think that's kind of
biased right there.

Speaker 9 (29:19):
I mean, you know, we're already, like I said, from
very very early on, like about first grade level, we're
already seeing this boy starting to learn how to control
others and make them do what he wants them to do.

Speaker 11 (29:30):
Uh, let's let's get through this because I want to
come back and touch on that too when we talk
about his personality, because I think that's really impressive, honestly.

Speaker 9 (29:41):
Okay, yeah, well, I mean we'll have to because yeah,
it does come back into play, like how do you
especially women? That's one thing I want to touch on.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
He played a guitar.

Speaker 11 (29:52):
If he was a drummer, none of this would happen.

Speaker 9 (29:57):
Okay, So in nineteen sixty three, Charlie actually has the
second son with Leona, which is Charles Luther Manson, which
I asked you this earlier. The other one would have
been Charlie junior. Would this be Charlie the third or another?
Would it be a junior junior thing like in friends?

Speaker 2 (30:17):
I think his middle name was different, so wouldn't.

Speaker 9 (30:19):
Well, Charlie Luther Manson was this third or the second
child of Charlie. So the first one is junior. Now
we've got the second one, Like, is that another junior?

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Again?

Speaker 9 (30:30):
Since he's named after him, he's still named Charles Manson.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
The middle name has to be the same as well
to make it well.

Speaker 9 (30:37):
The first one, the middle name wasn't the same. To
my knowledge, we don't even know how to pronounce. He
was our Charlie Manson. The leader here was Charles Mills Maddox,
I think, but as M I. L. L. E. S.
That was his full born given name. I don't know

(30:57):
that the first child actually shared that middle name.

Speaker 11 (31:04):
I don't see it. All I see is Charles Manson junior.
I don't see the middle name.

Speaker 9 (31:08):
Yeah, that's that's what I've got is just Charles Manson.

Speaker 11 (31:11):
I don't know, maybe that's just it. They wanted it
to be a junior.

Speaker 9 (31:16):
Well, I mean he technically would be. But it's a
digression here, but I'm kind of wondering about this second junior.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Now, yeah, I know he didn't go by junior. It's
just Charles Luther. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (31:29):
All I can all I can hear in my brain
is Phoebe's brother Frank.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
I know, Charles Manson Jr.

Speaker 11 (31:38):
He does he wants up changed his name to Jay Watt,
and then Charles Luther Manson. Uh, he legally changes his
name later to j Charles Warner.

Speaker 9 (31:51):
Which one's the sad one. I mean, it is a
sad story for one of these kids.

Speaker 11 (31:58):
Well, it's set's where for all of them. But then
he out Michael Brunner, who was the third. He had
three sons, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
Charles, Charles, Charles Luther Manson, and then Michael Brunner.

Speaker 11 (32:11):
Yeah, okay, anyway, Manson, Jay Watt is the one that
has his tragic ending.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah, and that.

Speaker 9 (32:21):
One he he ends up committing suicide on the side
of a road somewhere, which is just I mean to me,
that's yet another victim. Yeah, Okay, since we have so
much to burn through, I'm gonna skip to nineteen sixty four. Now,

(32:42):
Charlie has now become obsessed with the Beatles, which is
kind of I don't know if I would say it's
a catalyst for all of this, but the White Album,
I mean, at this point and in nineteen sixty six,
he's still incarcerated at this point, we're skipping for two years,
but he decides to become a songwriter because of his

(33:05):
obsession and everything with the Beatles. And it was a
White album that actually did it because they yeah, they
had a song called Helter Skelter, which I'll dive into
that here in a little bit too.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
So I actually said that every song on that White
album was was written for him and his followers. Yeah, so,
I mean he was he's completely convinced that that help
that the Beatles wrote the White Album for the.

Speaker 9 (33:35):
Mansion directly to him. Yes, we're gonna go right now.
We're in March March twenty first. The specific day, March
twenty first of nineteen sixty seven, Charlie actually asked prison
officials to let him stay in prison, but he had
completed his sentence and was released.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 9 (33:58):
They could not keep him.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, he had I'm a poor parole before that, but
they said no.

Speaker 11 (34:03):
But at this point this and why was it March
whatever twenty first, they was going to release him, and
he flat out told him. He said, I'm paraphrasing now,
but he says, keep me in here. I will not
do well out there.

Speaker 9 (34:19):
Yeah. I mean he he actually had the presence of
mind to understand I can't be out there with the public.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
He is quoted saying that the reason he wanted to
stay in prison is because people in the real world
will lie to you, but people in prison will tell
you the truth because people in prison when they lie,
gets punched in the mouth.

Speaker 11 (34:45):
He said, so the people in his mindset, the people
in prison were more honorable and the people outside.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Because there's something else.

Speaker 9 (34:54):
I think he also learned in prison, because in prison
everything is very regiment and it's very scheduled. You don't
have to think about anything. Your day is pretty much set.
You know exactly what's gonna happen, what time is gonna happen,
like very very strict schedule and everything. And Manson even
started to after he leaves and everything when he starts

(35:16):
gaining his followers, he starts to tell them, if you
think you're not a free person, you need to not
think about things. You just need to act right. So,
I mean, I think that that is something that was
probably learned in prison that he realized, Okay, look, I'm

(35:37):
seeing all these other people falling right in the line
when they don't have to think about everything, right, Like
their entire day is scheduled. They don't have to think
about it. They just do.

Speaker 11 (35:48):
Now, he himself was a big thinker, oh his followers
to think on their own, because most people start thinking
on their own, then that becomes dangerous to him.

Speaker 9 (35:59):
Yeah, I mean that's a lot of the followers that
ended up not getting involved in the future crimes and
everything were the ones who were thinking for themselves and
kind of saying, no, I don't want to do this.

Speaker 11 (36:13):
That's something too that I've always was interested in. Since
he brought up the other family members, there's a handful
that really done this.

Speaker 9 (36:21):
I think at the height of this there were thirty
five confirmed.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
That's what I was going to say. Live on that compound,
that was over thirty.

Speaker 9 (36:29):
Yeah, in thisund as of right now, like when he
leaves the prison, after asking to stay to be kept there,
he heads to San Francisco to a deserted ranch owned
by a man with the last name spawn Spahn. Yeah,
this is like an eighty year old man. They don't
have any money, like these are like he just got

(36:52):
out of prison. He has no job, they have no income.
And there is actually one of his youngest quote unquote
family men members is a fifteen year old girl named Diane,
and Charlie now tells her, you have to go sleep
with this man so that he'll let us stay. And
in a documentary like she is one of these surviving

(37:14):
members who has spoken out. She actually wrote a book
about her entire experience. I'll link it later in Twitter.
But she is fifteen years old at the time. She
is our daughter's age, and he is instructing her, you
have to go sleep with this eighty something year old
man so that he'll let us stay on his property.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Well he wasn't.

Speaker 11 (37:37):
He didn't shy away from young ones either. When his
first marriage, he was nineteen and.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
His wife was sixteen.

Speaker 9 (37:45):
She was nineteen.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, no, no, no, that's the second one.

Speaker 11 (37:47):
The first one he was nineteen and she the wife
was like fifteen or sixteen when they got married.

Speaker 9 (37:53):
They were both teenagers.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, the second wife, he was like twenty four.

Speaker 9 (37:57):
And she was nine.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
She was nineteen.

Speaker 9 (37:59):
That's the one.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
So basically he was still doing the thing with his followers.

Speaker 9 (38:06):
Oh exactly, he just wasn't, I guess transporting them, which
would violate that.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
Again.

Speaker 9 (38:16):
But yeah, I mean this is this is now a
grown man, like we're talking like legally adult, like well
into legal adulthood. He's got this. And she joined the
family when she was thirteen, but then he starts pimping
her out when she's fifteen years old. She is the
youngest member of the family at this point, and she
even says in the documentary in her interview, she says,

(38:39):
like I felt disgusted, I felt scared, but it was Charlie,
so I did it for him. Like I mean, he
still had just this inexplicable control over these people. And
they were mostly in the family like he did bring
in like of course men obviously, but they were mostly

(39:01):
very young and impressionable women and girls at the time.

Speaker 11 (39:06):
And uh, he's talking about how he because here's one
thing to remember.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
This was sixties. When it's going on sixty five, we're.

Speaker 9 (39:16):
Into sixties, So we're in the late sixties going into
the seventies.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Everyone is familiar with Charles Manson.

Speaker 11 (39:24):
Yeah, safe to say, But what people reckon when you
mentioned Charles Manson, what people think of is in prison,
Charles Manson with a big beard, the long hair, to
swastika and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 9 (39:35):
It actually wasn't a swaska at first.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
It was an ex but that's what everybody cares about.

Speaker 11 (39:42):
But when you said how he was able to manipulate
these women, remember at this point, hot up the summer
love season, you.

Speaker 9 (39:50):
Know, Aquarius was still in full swing.

Speaker 11 (39:53):
He was charismatic, he played the guitar. They lived in
the commune, which was everybody's dream. And he didn't look
like the pre in Charles Manson.

Speaker 9 (40:01):
He was like you saw me post on x earlier today,
like that photo and everything. That's not an unattractive man.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah, he was a good looking guy. Yeah, and he
was extremely talented. Well I say extremely talented. He was
very talented guitar player and a great songwriter.

Speaker 9 (40:16):
Let's say he actually did have some musical talent here.

Speaker 11 (40:20):
So yeah, when I made the joke about if he
was a drummer, it wouldn't work out. And that's why,
because he would bring his guitar out and at this
point the family that's all they did. They was set
drugs and rock and roll quite literally.

Speaker 9 (40:33):
Yeah, I mean he would feed them like hallucinogenics all
the time. And there were these big group sets, these
big orgy events yep, for all of them.

Speaker 11 (40:42):
And but yeah, he was a good looking guy. He
was very personable with each each member there.

Speaker 9 (40:49):
There were other interviews done where they said he had
a knack for making you feel like you were the
special when you were his favorite.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, they said.

Speaker 11 (40:59):
People, some daughter survivors and stuff like that talk about
how our members. I guess the Biber's still work. But
some of the family members who interviewed later on talk
about how talk about how personable he was. Is he
would handshake, eye contact, he would hug you every.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Time he talk to you. That he'd be touching you
in some way.

Speaker 9 (41:20):
You like you feel like you were the center of attention.

Speaker 11 (41:23):
Just one woman was saying, or not was a man.
I'm sorry was saying, when Charlie spoke to you, everything
else was kind of went away.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
It was just you and Charlie. Because of the way he.

Speaker 9 (41:32):
He honed in, like he locked in on you, and
he's the one who kind of made the rest of
the world disappear. Which keep in mind, these were a
lot most of his family, I think predominantly were runaways.
They were very young. Yeah, uh, they were running away
from home for various different reasons. And here is now

(41:54):
this man who has made them feel like they're special,
that they matter, that they are the center of the
world for a very young person. That is that's all
you want to hear, you know, I mean.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
It.

Speaker 9 (42:10):
Keep in mind how we all were when we were,
you know, twenty twenty one years old, and even for
some of them as a teenager. Think about how you
were as a teenager. The world revolved around you. You know,
we grow out of that if we're guided properly and
everything and we realize that, you know, other people exist,
other people matter, We're not the center of the universe.

(42:32):
We kind of that Narcissism goes away after a while.
Narcissism is a trait in every single like child, because
it is a like, look at babies. They're gonna cry
when they need to be changed, that when they want
to be fed. It's all about them. They don't know
any better. This is just a natural part of being

(42:53):
a human being, you know, right, But Charlie honed in
on this. People that did not grow out of it.
He honed in on it. He used it. It's exactly
what I was saying earlier with the whole like lack
of empathy thing. He used the knowledge of their feelings

(43:14):
and what they felt like they needed. He used that
against them for his own game. So that's where I
think the anti social personality disorder comes in. And he
would definitely qualify for narcissistic personality disorder to one hundred
because everything was about Charlie.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah, everything.

Speaker 9 (43:36):
So okay, we're still in nineteen sixty seven. Manson's Actually
his first follower was a twenty three year old woman
named Mary Brunner, which we've already established that his third
child was a third child child came from her Michael.

Speaker 11 (43:54):
Now this was the first official follower at Manson's ranch. Yes,
that joined with Matt the ranch.

Speaker 9 (44:00):
So I mean eventually we expand here the family members
to thirty five confirmed followers, which again the majority were
young girls and women.

Speaker 11 (44:11):
And well there is also at the time of the
raid when it all comes in, there's like seven children,
like small children.

Speaker 9 (44:18):
Yeah, that's because some of these people like came and
went like it was a free like they were allowed
to leave if they wanted to. It wasn't like Jonestown
or anything like that. They were allowed to leave if
they chose to. So you had people coming in and out,
especially these young women with their children, like they kind

(44:40):
of floated.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
In and out.

Speaker 11 (44:42):
Well, I'm also I don't know if they had official
people that went out looking for new recruits, but I
know the ones that did do the recruiting was primarily
women as well, and.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
So that's kind of me they was able to approach
and bring.

Speaker 9 (44:55):
In and they were they were only allowed to go
out with a male chaperone of the family. Like of
the official kind of group, there at least one of
the men had to come down.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
It may be a guy in five women or whatever,
but the guy had to go with them.

Speaker 9 (45:11):
But at the same time, like those women were also
told like, hey, if you need to have sex with
somebody to get them to like join in and everything,
that's what you got to do.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Yeah, that's the whole thing.

Speaker 9 (45:20):
It's like, I mean, these other guys were basically pimps too.

Speaker 11 (45:23):
Yeah, We was talking about it being the commune, and
it it really is. I mean it fits the definition
is too the community work together as a one, Yeah,
to meet the needs of the of the family. Even
I mentioned those seven kids. If the parents didn't raise

(45:43):
the kids, they had nannies in a group. All these
kids lived in the same little room together with just
a couple of just a handful of the followers, and
they did all the raising.

Speaker 9 (45:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (45:53):
I say, if you had a child, well, that child,
once it comes old, not to leave the mom it
went to that group didn't.

Speaker 9 (46:00):
Actually was a big believer, and it takes a village
to raise a child. Like he literally created his own
village and was trying to raise up children in that dynamic.
Now around this time, it's not exactly known when, but
he starts claiming that he is now Jesus.

Speaker 11 (46:21):
Well, he claims that he is the second coming to
Christ and Satan wrapped in wrapped into one.

Speaker 9 (46:30):
Yeah. Anything that he did that was perceived as negative,
that was the Satan, the lucifer part of him, and
all of the good stuff was Jesus, and it was
He was very, very physically and sexually abusive with his
quote unquote family especially with the female members. There was

(46:51):
one survivor that actually she had She was washing dishes
one afternoon and Charlie had asked her to do something
and she just kind of made the offhand remark, hey,
we'll let me finish this first. And this man beat
her with an extension cord, like with like use it
as a whip, beat her with an extension cord. So,

(47:14):
I mean, physical abuse is heavy at this point.

Speaker 11 (47:17):
And like I said, it was obviously mental and emotional
abuse too. But he would if anyone when he was
given his he didn't really call them sermons, but when
he was given.

Speaker 9 (47:26):
The speeches, what it's what that would boil down to, Well.

Speaker 11 (47:29):
There's the only religious aspect of it is what he claimed.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
There was no Bible teaching.

Speaker 9 (47:34):
No, yeah, there was nothing biblical about this.

Speaker 11 (47:39):
A lot of the others that there was biblicultly based,
but this one was another to his claim of being
the Devil and Jesus all wrapped into one. But if
anyone was to during his long speeches, they would they
would go a long time just ramblings. If anyone in
the family were to like get up and move around
or speak or even whisper a months theirselves.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
He would rebuke them immediately in.

Speaker 9 (48:04):
Front of everybody. Public. Humiliation is a tool that is used.

Speaker 11 (48:09):
I thought it was interested in that it was mainly
the women that he would rebuke. The men he wasn't
as hard on.

Speaker 9 (48:15):
Yeah, And I think he would even sometimes use the
other man to punish the women, like I don't may
not have necessarily been him, but I think sometimes he
did tell the other man, Okay, you got a punish
her like yeah.

Speaker 11 (48:28):
I mean I don't I didn't read anything like that,
but I don't doubt it. It fits the mold, you know.

Speaker 9 (48:32):
That's I mean, all of the all of the signs
are there for this. That's speculation on my part too,
but all of the signs are there for that, because
that would be another way to control his mail members,
to see if he could get them to do what
he wanted them to do. He was he was testing these.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
People, how far are you willing? Four to seven?

Speaker 9 (48:56):
He was testing them to see just how much they
would do for him, how far they would go if
he told them to do something. So and again the
drug use and everything plays into this because I mean
that's actually a tool in brainwashing. We know we'd like
the CIA because they are actually like theories, conspiracy theories

(49:18):
out there there that the MK ultra or whatever, that
Manson and everything was a whole sigh out from them
and whatnot. I don't really put any stock into that, sorry,
but that is a theory that is out there. And
I even had somebody telling me earlier today that you know,

(49:39):
you know that Manson was basically framed for all this,
and I'm like, no, he kind of admitted all of it.
He was not shy about that.

Speaker 11 (49:48):
He may have kind of contradicted himself throughout his imprisonment,
but he wouldn't.

Speaker 9 (49:52):
But that would be just another way to manipulate people
to like he would recant something like oh yeah, I
admitted to this once, but now I'm going to say
it's not true.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Now when you were talking about him testing his followers,
are you going to talk about the test runs and
when they breaking in entering they was doing?

Speaker 9 (50:11):
Oh yeah, I mean he was.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Oh I mean, I don't want to get you off
if you got it in your notes.

Speaker 9 (50:16):
This is actually something that pops up. You see those
memes going around, like if you were to break into
somebody's house or something, and you know, not hurt them
or anything.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
What would you do?

Speaker 9 (50:26):
I always say, I'm going to do like Charlie Manson did.
I'm going to go into their kitchen or something and
put their kitchen chairs up on the table and you
rearrange their furniture and everything. They don't know it.

Speaker 11 (50:38):
Yeah, he would send these, mostly the women again to
just random people's houses for no reason other than just hey,
that house. And I imagine if the door was in
locked or easy to get into, play the part.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
But I think they called it creepy.

Speaker 9 (50:54):
Crawley's Yeah, creepy crawl something like that.

Speaker 11 (50:57):
And they would break you know, they break into this
house and they made a game.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
All they would do was it was a game.

Speaker 11 (51:03):
They thought this was all fun, laughing about it and
all this, and they would just move furniture around.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
Now they would steal, you know, the would still something.

Speaker 9 (51:11):
And petty petty thefts and everything were still happening at
the Yeah, they would. They would take the kitchen chairs
and just stack them up on top of the kitchen tables,
and then they'd like rearranged living room furniture. And like
I laugh about stuff like that. I kind of giggle
about it, because, yes, I will go ahead and freely
acknowledge that, but like it's very, very harmless. And at

(51:36):
the same time, like if I were to wake up
tomorrow and all of the furniture in our living room
had been rearranged and the chairs were up on the
table and everything, I would lose my mind. I would
not be okay, But.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
I say, it is terrifying, thoughts it was.

Speaker 9 (51:54):
It was like straight up psychological warfare in a way,
like it was just tour mentioning these people without actually
doing anything to physically.

Speaker 11 (52:02):
Hurt that it wasn't physically harming, but psychologically harming was
I think got rid if somebody slapped me then exactly.

Speaker 9 (52:10):
Like can you just like assault me or something like
don't mess with my head like this, just come right
out and like do something. But yeah, like I laugh
about it and everything, because yes, I am a little
bit messed up, and I think that's why y'all all
like me. But it's also like extremely terrifying to me.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
But that was one of the ways he would test
them to see what they would do and what he
can have far they could go.

Speaker 9 (52:37):
So yeah, I mean his hardcore followers like and you know,
these are the ones that actually end up committing the crimes.
These are I think the core members.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (52:49):
They believe all of his claims to be Jesus, to
be Satan. They believe all this without questions.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
They believe that the war's coming and all that.

Speaker 9 (52:57):
Yes, and yeah, that's exactly another thing. He was preaching that,
like the song Helter Skelter on the White Album from
the Beatles, that was a message to him that the
race war was coming. And he believed that black people
in America would win the race war, but that they
would be unable to govern or rule themselves, so that

(53:20):
they would end up turning to Charlie right, and he
would be the one who ends up governing overall.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Yeah, he was extremely racist in that way too. But
he says that the reason the black man would rise
up and win it was because retribution for slavery and
all the torment that they had been gone through. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (53:40):
I mean, keep in mind, again, this is the the
you know, you see the Black Panther Party coming more
and more into the forefront of you know, the American
conscious and you know political and social discussions. You had
the race riots, you know, all this kind of stuff
was already happening. So he played off of this like

(54:02):
this was a bit. This was a huge thing. It
was in the late sixties, early seventies.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
It was all over the country.

Speaker 11 (54:10):
You ever, major city, even the smaller CITs, rural areas,
it was. The tension was there. It was all over
to you. So for him to say there's a race
war coming made perfect sense. Why not, right, there's evidence.

Speaker 9 (54:22):
I mean at that time, I don't like, even if
I was not part of his little family and everything,
I think I probably would have believed in that. Yes,
the race war is coming.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
It's just another reason, another way he was manipulating. Yes,
a little bit of truth to instill fear.

Speaker 9 (54:40):
Fear. I've always said, fear is the best way to
control people. Yeah, and we saw this play out with
like COVID and everything. You make people scared, like, oh
you get the sniffles, that's a death sentence. Like you've
made people terrified. Now, now if you promise them a solution,
they're gonna do whatever you tell them to do. It's

(55:01):
amazing how easily it works.

Speaker 11 (55:05):
Yeah, there's only one other thing that can control men
easier than fear. And that's not that.

Speaker 9 (55:13):
Kind of show to say we're not going to get
into that. You did their children in the other room too,
So no.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
We haven't even got to the Beach Boys yet, So
let's go ahead.

Speaker 9 (55:23):
I mean, nineteen sixty eight is when the Beatles released
the White Album, and that you know again, the song
Helter Skelter became the focal point for Charlie. He thought
the entire album was a message directly to him, but
that particular song was what he kind of fixated on.
Paul McCartney said that the playground Slide was actually a

(55:47):
metaphor for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire.
So Manson took the song as an incitation to start
a race war. So he and this kind of ties in,
like he had some kind of religious basis a little
bit with the Jesus Satan reference, but he was also

(56:07):
fixated on the idea of armageddon that was foretold in Revelation.
So he thought that he could bring about Helter Skelter,
which was Armageddon, which was this ultimate race war that.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Did you know that Armageddon is just the name of
the place where the battle battle takes place, but everybody's
adopted as the name of the battle itself. Yeah, it's
a Battle of Armageddon, the.

Speaker 9 (56:30):
Battle of Armageddon, but that is in revelation, the end of.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
The world, this world anyway, Yeah, that battle becomes that,
but Armageddon's just a field where we will take place. Yeah,
I'm sorry, I congrat So, yeah.

Speaker 9 (56:45):
He is pathologically deluded into believing that he is actually
a harbinger of doom regarding man's future here on earth.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (56:54):
Well he has become completely fixated on this. And again
his hardcore followers they bought into this hook line and Syncer.
They do not question it. They don't doubt it. He
said it, so therefore it is true. That's how they
are at this point.

Speaker 11 (57:10):
Yeah, I mean there, I'm sure there was some others
in the group that was still there just for the
sets and drugs.

Speaker 9 (57:17):
Oh yeah, I mean.

Speaker 11 (57:19):
Moment he had his inner sanctum that was bought in.
Many they was in it.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (57:25):
Again, did not question anything he said or claimed, like
just hook line Sinker, that was the truth because Charlie
said it was true. Right, Okay, So now this is
kind of where.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
One of the most surreal turns.

Speaker 9 (57:42):
Yeah, this is so like I kind of love this
case because of this, because you would not really connect
it rationally but prior to the murders, Dennis Wilson of
the Beach Boys, he picks up two of the female
family members who had been hitchhiking and he ended up
allowing them Manson and some other family members to stay

(58:05):
at his home. So it was through this association that
Manson was then connected to Terry Melcher, who was the
son of Doris Day and a close friend of producer
for the Beach For.

Speaker 11 (58:17):
Yeah, but we've got to you can't just go over
to Beach Sports and that quick we got.

Speaker 9 (58:22):
I still got more stuff on the Beach Boys, Like
there's just Manson starts to like play some of his
songs and everything, gets the girls to sing for Dennis.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Yeah. Because remember it was I don't know what prison was,
he was really getting into writing songs and stuff.

Speaker 9 (58:42):
Yeah, I think it was like nineteen sixty six that
he actually started songwriting. Yeah, songwriting in prison was nineteen
sixty six.

Speaker 11 (58:51):
And he became he decided that he was. He said
it was a lifelong dream to be a rock star.
To me, you issue to be on stage to have
a follow up, And I mean.

Speaker 9 (59:02):
Other people did verify that, like that was on way.
He was big into music. I mean even from a
young age. Ye.

Speaker 11 (59:09):
So so when he had this chance meeting with a
sure enough at the time, I'm gonna say rock Starr,
you know California rock.

Speaker 9 (59:21):
Yeah, I mean Dennis Wilson picked up two of his girls, yeah,
and everything as his shikers and everything. So they brought
Charlie into the mix, and some other family members got
brought into the house.

Speaker 11 (59:35):
So basically Charlie and Dennis would be just hanging out
together smoking the pots, you know, smoking the marriage.

Speaker 9 (59:46):
For the girls and the drugs.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
And he was bringing the girls and there was that
lifestyle that he wanted. Yeah.

Speaker 11 (59:51):
And what's interesting here too is Dennis Wilson at this
time was getting.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Ready to leave the Beach Boys. He was he.

Speaker 11 (01:00:00):
Wanted to try a different sound. He was tired of
the surfer tight pop he rock music that the Beach
Boys was.

Speaker 9 (01:00:08):
Known for, what we now call you yacht rock.

Speaker 11 (01:00:11):
He was wanting to branch away from that anyway. So
when he meets Charlie, he realizes, hey, here's some sets,
here's some drugs.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
This is awesome. And Charlie's like, here, let me play
some tunes for you.

Speaker 9 (01:00:24):
And again Charlie was not without.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Talent, no, and the music hit musical style that And
you can go on YouTube online and look up Charles
Manson's music and you can find some of his music.
And I'm actually singing and performing.

Speaker 9 (01:00:37):
Yeah, I have a mention of it here on an
actual Beach Boys album.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Yeah. So he is.

Speaker 11 (01:00:44):
He's enjoyed this moment with Charlie. Charlie's playing his music,
and I think Dennis realizes that as long as I
make Charlie happy, He's gonna make me happy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:00:55):
And that was the thing, like whenever Charlie was pissed off,
he made it everybody's problem.

Speaker 11 (01:01:00):
Well, no, just Dennis is like, I'm gonna keep the
guy who's supplied me with women in drugs happy. So
if he says this is the greatest song he's ever written,
I'm gonna say, yeah, man, that's the greatest song I
ever written. But yes, he did have some talent. I
believe Dennis kind of propped up that talent and got
inside Charlie's head.

Speaker 9 (01:01:20):
Ego thing because like you said, Dennis wanted to stay
in girls and in drugs and everything, and Charlie was
freely sharing all of that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
For sure, to Charlie's ego.

Speaker 11 (01:01:32):
He built up Charlie's ego a little bit more specifically
on that on the on the music side of it.

Speaker 9 (01:01:40):
Yeah, And it was again that's how Charlie Manson got
connected to Terry Melcher, who again his mother was Doris Day,
close friend and producer for the Beach Boys. So like
now Charlie's got this connection to an actual big time

(01:02:00):
like record producer, and that's a big deal to him
because that's what he's been wanting.

Speaker 11 (01:02:07):
He had been pressing Dennis to introduce him to the
other Beach Boys, yeah, and to get him on some
some contacts in the music industry.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
He'd been pushing for that for a while. Basically ever
since he met him.

Speaker 9 (01:02:20):
He started pushing the easy and Terry Melcher again, this
this person with the connection to the producer and whatnot.
He is at that time living in the home of
Roman Polansky.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
That turns into Romancy's house. Yeah, but as.

Speaker 9 (01:02:36):
I know, I mean at the time it was actually
Roman Polanski's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Home, like he was renting it from him or something.

Speaker 9 (01:02:44):
I think, I'm not entirely sure. I mean, the notes and.

Speaker 11 (01:02:47):
Everything, well, he was very sought after and he would
travel for months at a time.

Speaker 9 (01:02:53):
As the world when the allegations about him ever came.

Speaker 11 (01:02:55):
He could have been just living in the house while
Roman was gone. I thought it was his souths but say.

Speaker 9 (01:03:01):
It's the same exact home and everything. I don't know
if Roman actually owned it at the time that Terry
was living there, but it was the same home, like
it the.

Speaker 11 (01:03:10):
Way the way I understood it was Terry Melcher's home.
And then when he moved up and put on the market.

Speaker 9 (01:03:17):
Thinking that Terry still lived there.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
But yeah, already bought it. That's the way.

Speaker 9 (01:03:22):
I'm okay, that makes a lot of sense. But Terry
Melcher basically ends up like like Dennis gets him out
there to the compound and everything, or to the home,
and you know, he's letting Charlie perform for him, having
the girls sing and right around.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Yeah, it's the whole family. Yeah, it's family banda.

Speaker 9 (01:03:45):
They're trying to impress Terry Melcher so that they can
get a record contract, but ultimately there was no interest
on Terry's part, like he just said like, look, dude,
I'm you know, I'm sorry.

Speaker 11 (01:03:58):
Well, actually, Dennis Wilson kind of told Charlie that, oh yeah,
that first recording he let him listen to a recording,
and he said, yeah, this guy likes you. I think
all we gotta do is meet with him and put
on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
And then.

Speaker 11 (01:04:17):
So he brought Terry out to hit the house, or
they went to Terry's house, it was.

Speaker 9 (01:04:24):
I can't remember which one it was. Either way, the meeting.

Speaker 11 (01:04:27):
Was set up with Terry right, so they performed and
everything Terry's might have been it could have been, because yeah,
it was, because they take him Terry home.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
That's how they find it was.

Speaker 11 (01:04:39):
So it was at the compound they did this whole thing,
and uh, and he's again surrounded all these women, the drugs,
everything's good. So he enjoys hisself and when he leaves,
he tells as he's getting out, he says, Charlie asked him.
He says, so where are we at?

Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
Man?

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
What do you think we got a deal?

Speaker 11 (01:04:59):
And Melcher tells him, you know what meant, I like
what you're doing. I'll get back to you. And that's
how he left and Charlie, after Charlie wanted Charlie wanted,
Charlie drove him him in text and some others drove
him in their car back to Melcher's house, so that's

(01:05:21):
how they knew where terry. And then he gets out
of the car, tells you, yeah, man, I'll be in
touch and leaves, leaving Charlie thinking that it was a good.

Speaker 9 (01:05:33):
You know things, We're going to progress from there.

Speaker 11 (01:05:35):
And then some weeks go by and there's no contact whatsoever,
no phone call.

Speaker 5 (01:05:41):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
So he's trying to get a hold of.

Speaker 11 (01:05:44):
Dennis, trying to figure out where Melcher was because he thought,
he says, Dennis led him to believe it was a
done deal. And at that point he's getting angry at
Dennis on the phone, screaming at him, said, don't you
know who I am? You know, and all this kind
of stuff.

Speaker 9 (01:06:00):
Yeah, he's having a complete like conniption fit.

Speaker 11 (01:06:02):
So that's when Dennis realizes, hey, this is this is
not a good thing man.

Speaker 9 (01:06:07):
Now. It is worth noting Manson did record music at
the home of Brian Wilson, who is Dennis's brother, Yeah,
in a single titled Ceased to Exist, which was later
renamed Just Never Learned Not to Love, was actually recorded
on the nineteen sixty nine album twenty twenty and was
released as a single on the B side Yeah So yes,

(01:06:29):
I mean Manson actually did get a song on a
Beach Boys album.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Yeah it was.

Speaker 11 (01:06:35):
It wasn't a grand album now, but even in Beach Boys,
you know level, But wasn't it twenty twenty?

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Like Vision twenty.

Speaker 9 (01:06:43):
Twenty a twenty slash twenty that was the name of the.

Speaker 11 (01:06:47):
Album because it went like spelled out twenty. It was
like you see on your ods are twenty slash seventy
twenty twenty vision type thing.

Speaker 9 (01:06:54):
So I mean, yeah, for anybody else that would have
been a huge deal.

Speaker 11 (01:06:59):
I think, well again, that's just something else that made
him think he's yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:07:10):
I mean all of this has now kind of come
to fruition. We've already got this man saying that he's Jesus,
he is also Satan. He's going to bring about armageddon
via a race war, and he's going to be the
one that the winners of the race war all come
and you know, seek out to rule over them. Essentially,

(01:07:32):
we've already got all this going now. He's pissed off
and everything because his dream of being a a rock star, yeah,
like a prominent musician, a popular musician, like this dream
is not coming true. So yeah, I do think that
was all the music stuff. It was almost kind of

(01:07:53):
a catalyst. I think it probably could have been delayed
a lot longer had he been successful in his music endeavors.

Speaker 11 (01:08:00):
Yeah, basically, what you're saying is the Beach Boys calls
these deaths.

Speaker 9 (01:08:04):
No, I'm saying that him not being good enough and everything.
Can we do what? No, it's not the Beach Boy's fault.
It's just that I think that they recognized, Okay, this
guy's probably not gonna go very far, so we're just
gonna use them for the drugs and the sex.

Speaker 11 (01:08:25):
And nah, screwed the Beach Boys. So this is I mean.
And the reason Charlie taking Meltra home was important is
because he realizes where he lives and he gets the address.

Speaker 9 (01:08:41):
In the house on Cellow Drive.

Speaker 11 (01:08:43):
Yeah, was it one hundred and fifty nine one zero
zero five nine?

Speaker 9 (01:08:50):
I have it written down. But okay, we're gonna Yeah,
we'll go into Now it's March twenty third of nineteen
sixty nine. We're less than five months before the murders.

Speaker 11 (01:09:01):
Yes, when it escalates, it escalates. And that catalyst, like
you said, was this moment that Melter snowfs.

Speaker 9 (01:09:08):
Usually that's how you see this even with serial killers
like whatever that catalyst is, things pop off very quickly,
very rapidly.

Speaker 11 (01:09:16):
Yeah, And the time from the time that he met
with Melcher and Dennis and all that, the time that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
He met with.

Speaker 11 (01:09:26):
Thinking that he thinking that he was going to have
this record deal and he BA the terminogis now is
being ghosted. But they started ignoring with the returning phone
calls and all that. The people that testify and talk about,
you know, Charlie at the time, they said that the
music died on in the compound, that he was no

(01:09:49):
longer playing music. His anger was escalating. They said the
smallest things would tip, you know, would set him off.
He become very physically abusive to the women, especially just
if they walked by him and didn't acknowledge.

Speaker 9 (01:10:03):
He is noting too that this man is like five
foot two, he's five inches shorter than I am.

Speaker 11 (01:10:08):
Yeah, d wait, doesn't he have a podcast too on
something about Manorama.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
No, that's different. That's a different short guy. I mean,
that's a different short guy. Great, great show. Though highly recommend.

Speaker 9 (01:10:22):
I was not in on this. Do not blame me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
No, I'm not compared to Steve, to Charlie manson other
than heights. It's fine.

Speaker 9 (01:10:31):
No, Charlie Manson when he was like five foot two.
So again, I'm five foot seven, which is fairly tall
for a girl. I think the average for a woman
is like five to five.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
I don't know, but like.

Speaker 9 (01:10:42):
This would put Charlie Manson at least probably our daughter's height.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Well, you said he was a scientologist too, So there
you go, Tom Cruise. Maybe they liked short kings.

Speaker 9 (01:10:51):
Maybe I don't like that would kind of track, wouldn't it. Okay,
we're March twenty te we're less than five months before
the murders. So Charlie now visits one zero zero five
none Clo Drive looking for Terry Melcher. This is now

(01:11:13):
the home of Roman Polansky and his wife Sharon Tate. Rick.
I actually have all those photos, like if you kind
of want to cycle through them as best as possible.
I didn't. Actually, I should have helped my producer a
little bore by organizing the photos, but I didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
Well, the let's see the Melter.

Speaker 9 (01:11:35):
A photo of Sharon Tate and Roland Polanski.

Speaker 11 (01:11:38):
So, yeah, Melcher when he goes to that address, he's
looking for Melcher because he's going to kill him.

Speaker 4 (01:11:44):
You know.

Speaker 9 (01:11:45):
Oh yeah, I mean he was fully intending on violence
at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
So he goes there trying to find him, and uh realizes,
you know, he's not there.

Speaker 9 (01:11:55):
I say, Melcher no longer lives there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
This is now the nobody. Nobody can to the front door,
So he goes round back.

Speaker 9 (01:12:01):
Sharon Tate's photographer.

Speaker 11 (01:12:03):
Actually no one comes to the front door, so he
goes round to the back where there's a photo shoot
going on Sharon Tates in the pool. The photographer sees
him coming. He runs up the steps before he actually
comes into the backyard all the way and stops him,
confronts him to him, no, man, you got to get
out of here.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Melcher don't live here no more. This is Roan Pski's house.
You have to leave, you have to.

Speaker 9 (01:12:29):
He instructs him to leave by the back alleyway. Don't
go by the front of the.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
House and go out front again. Just keep walking away.
You walk in and get out of here.

Speaker 9 (01:12:37):
Now again, all of this is now happening very rapidly.
That was March twenty third when he approached the house
and got turned away. Now we're July thirty one of
nineteen sixty nine, and this is the first murder actually
of Gary Henman, who was a supplier of drugs for

(01:12:58):
the family. It's kind of remember that he was a
family member, but he was not actually like living with him.
He had his own home, but he was the basically
the drug supplier for this family. And this picture that
Rick has got up right now was actually a crime
scene photo from this first murder.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
Got just hold that picture for a minute. Rick.

Speaker 9 (01:13:21):
Now he confronts Henman and everything. Charlie is actually present
at this What starts.

Speaker 11 (01:13:29):
What starts it is the compound needs money. Charlie is
convinced himself he had a business or whatever, convinced himself
that Henman uh had a bunch, was keeping a lot
of money at his home and had gotten an inheritance
and had all this money cashed in his house.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
So he sends his.

Speaker 11 (01:13:52):
Strong man I guess if you want to call him
that over there to.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Get the money.

Speaker 11 (01:13:57):
And he is there for like two days at this point,
trying to stort the money out of this guy, out
of Henman, and they can't get no money because there's
no money there.

Speaker 9 (01:14:07):
Yeah, I mean they were mistaken about this inheritance, like
it just didn't exist.

Speaker 11 (01:14:10):
But I understand why they would feel that way to
a point, because Henman wasn't innocent here. He was there,
he partied with them, they partied at his house. Uh,
he was their drugs. He was their drug suppliers. So
they actually paid him money for those drugs. So in
their mind he yeah, yeah exactly.

Speaker 9 (01:14:32):
But now Charlie actually is present that.

Speaker 11 (01:14:39):
Bobby finally calls him, like, yeah, Bobby finally calls him here,
I'll get his name out here. Okay, Yeah, Bobby finally
calls him saying that Henman really doesn't have no money. Uh,
that he's holding out on them, and that they can't
get anything out of this.

Speaker 9 (01:15:00):
Is not we mostly know of the killers involved in
the Tate Folder murders, the second set of murders, so
Charlie is not actually present for the second one. He's
present here at this first one.

Speaker 11 (01:15:15):
Manson is present. He's president at the last one too.
But he Bobby Bouselet is the guy, his henchman that
he sends over there to get the money.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
Right. Well, they can't get nothing out of.

Speaker 11 (01:15:27):
Him, so he calls Charlie says, Uh, this guy's holding out.
I can't get it. You got to come, uh talk
him into or whatever. So Manson has has a guy
named Bruce Davis drive him over. That's just neither here
nor there. It's just his name.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
This another member who was there at the time. Uh.
He brings a sword basically some reports we've.

Speaker 9 (01:15:53):
Heard machete, we've heard sword.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Semi sword. But he brings a bladed weapon.

Speaker 9 (01:15:59):
Along bladed and a kitchen knife basically.

Speaker 11 (01:16:02):
And he's basically torturing the guy, screaming at him, you
Owa's money, where's the money at all this? And he
starts slicing a little bit. Report some reports say he
cuts his ear off.

Speaker 9 (01:16:12):
Now I did hear the documentary that I've watched said
that Manson it seemed to be trying to actually kill
him but didn't succeed, but ended up slicing his ear
and like deep cuts on the guy's face and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
But did not kill him.

Speaker 11 (01:16:29):
Yeah, he was definitely hurting the guy, Yeah, sure, but
he stopped short of killing him. And at that point
Manson tells Bobby Boselet to handle it and make it
look like they did. It was the quote, and did they.
As you can see in the picture there there's a
Paul print. So Manson decides at this point to use

(01:16:52):
this opportunity to make it look like the Black Panthers,
who are very.

Speaker 9 (01:16:57):
Very prominent in California at this.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
Time, to start this race war.

Speaker 9 (01:17:01):
This was his first attempt to incite helter Scope exactly.

Speaker 11 (01:17:05):
So that's why the paupernd is there to criminate the
Black Panthers to say that they're the ones who did it.

Speaker 9 (01:17:10):
And now two weeks have passed since this murder, since Bobby.

Speaker 11 (01:17:16):
Boy was the one that killed it was Bobby Bousele
is actual knafe Man who kills Henman at that murder,
was also Susan Atkins and.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Mary Brunner who it's actually the mother of the third Charles.

Speaker 9 (01:17:32):
And Susan Atkins we're going to see her later on again.
But now two weeks have passed and this race war
has not come to fruition.

Speaker 11 (01:17:41):
Now, he actually thought that by pinning it on the
Black Panthers and that would be the tipping point.

Speaker 9 (01:17:47):
Yeah, he thought that this murder right here putting political
piggy and that paw print on the wall that you
see on the screen right here, and this was in
Henman's blood, scrolling the wall in his blood.

Speaker 11 (01:17:58):
Because Henman was and all accounts to the public to
stand up white guy. Yeah, there was a music teacher,
things like that, he wouldn't ne'er do.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Well he was.

Speaker 9 (01:18:09):
Yeah, I mean there was nothing really too time him
to any kind of criminal activity or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
Nothing more than just a standard.

Speaker 9 (01:18:17):
So they thought that. Yeah, they thought that this white
man's death and everything, putting the pawprint on there, using
the word piggy and trying to make it look like
the black panthers were responsible for this murder. He genuinely
thought that this would be the start of helter skelter.
He thought this would be the tipping point for that

(01:18:39):
race war that he had been prophesying to his family about.
And two weeks now have passed and nothing has happened, Like,
I mean, that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Happened that mentioned black panthers or anything.

Speaker 4 (01:18:54):
Murder.

Speaker 9 (01:18:54):
Yeah, I mean, it was a blip on the radar basically.
So now we're getting.

Speaker 11 (01:19:00):
You what The quote unquote good thing in Charlie's eyes
is that he realized by that murder he can talk
his followers into doing anything he wanted, that they would
kill again for him.

Speaker 9 (01:19:15):
He walked out after taking like a blade to this
man's head, not killing him, and everything but walking out
and saying, okay, you go do it, and he did. Yeah,
he knew then. And to me, this is the ultimate
control you can have over another human being. It's not
the control over whether they live or die, it's can

(01:19:39):
I make this person do anything I asked them to?
That to me is the ultimate control over another human
being for sure, which Charlie executed gruesomely. So yeah, now
we are two weeks past Gary Henman's murder. Nothing has happened.
It's a blip on the radar, like the New has

(01:20:00):
barely mentioned it. There's no race war happening. Charlie starts
to get frustrated. He's like, okay, we got to do
something bigger now. So now, Manson tells his remaining followers,
the hardcore Central members that have stayed with him.

Speaker 11 (01:20:18):
Yeah, at this point, because of the music dying and
his attitude, a lot of the thirty five have left.

Speaker 9 (01:20:27):
I mean they have just kind of fluctuated anyway.

Speaker 11 (01:20:29):
But his his compound, the compound member the family members
have went down. The money's extremely low now because there's
not as many people contributing.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
Things.

Speaker 11 (01:20:40):
Are not happy in little Happy Valley over there. Yeah,
we're the family then, and they say, and they.

Speaker 9 (01:20:46):
Had actually moved from the ranch in what was it,
San Francisco, the Spawn Ranch. They had moved from there
to a different one in Death Valley, which I thought
was morbidly appropriate. This is where they were actually living
at the time all these murders happened, was in Death Valley.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
And the what's the what was I saying?

Speaker 11 (01:21:07):
Oh again, the fact that he didn't get his record deal.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
Was a skewing on him. I mean, he thought that
he started making.

Speaker 9 (01:21:18):
Well, that and the fact that this race war that
he had predicted and everything was not happening.

Speaker 11 (01:21:23):
But he started making the people who shunned him, which
was what's.

Speaker 9 (01:21:31):
His name, Terry Melcher?

Speaker 11 (01:21:33):
Melcher, he become the symbol of everything that's wrong, and
that everybody who was against him, he folks. He started
getting hyper focused on this Melcher guy. And there's actually
fours that he tried to find what Dennis Wilson, Yeah,
but he couldn't. Yeah, he couldn't find him, so he
went after Melcher.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:21:52):
I think he also probably went after Melcher because Melcher
might have told him where Dennis Wilson was.

Speaker 11 (01:21:57):
But he remember, at this point, he already knows Melcher
don't live in this house. But in Charlie's mind, he
has associated everything that's wrong against him.

Speaker 9 (01:22:09):
In Hollywood, in just any kind of celebrity circles. They
were all shunning.

Speaker 11 (01:22:15):
Him, all the all the Peggy's that he liked to
call him, and he hyper focused on that address where
Melcher was.

Speaker 9 (01:22:23):
I said, that was the only that was the only
place he knew that you.

Speaker 11 (01:22:27):
Know, that's had been. I said, that's the only thing
he could find. He couldn't find Dennis, he couldn't find
Melting anymore.

Speaker 9 (01:22:33):
He knew that celebrities lived in that house.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
The only thing he could the only thing he could
find that connected them was that house. So I think
that's why he went back to that.

Speaker 9 (01:22:42):
House that And again it was there were celebrities there
who also represented.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
And they the rejectionned him off. But like I said,
that house become his focal point.

Speaker 9 (01:22:55):
So yeah, on the night of August eighth of nineteen
sixty nine. And I still think this is just kind
of weird because our daughter's birthday is August ninth, just
obviously not of the same year. I just always thought
that was weird. But August eighth of nineteen sixty nine,
and this bleeds into August ninth because it happens late.

(01:23:18):
Manson now tells his remaining followers that now was the
time for helter skelter, So that evening he instructed Patricia Crinwiegil,
Susan Atkins, Tex Watson, and Linda Kasabian to get knives
and a change of clothes.

Speaker 11 (01:23:34):
Now, the only introjectory here about Linda Kassevian. It's interesting
because she had only been with the family about three
almost four weeks, less than a month at this point.

Speaker 9 (01:23:46):
Yeah, she was still new.

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
And he sent her on this trip.

Speaker 9 (01:23:50):
But I mean that kind of goes to the level
of control that he believed that he had over these people,
well for the most part, the rest of them, he did.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
One of the reasons he felt like he could trust
her is because the very first week she came, she
went back to her husband's house and stole five thousand
dollars cash and gave it to Yeah, so he thought
that she she was in Yeah, so he thought he
could be He thought she was in his inner circle.
Because of that, that was kind of the main reason

(01:24:18):
he picked her, because he thought he could.

Speaker 9 (01:24:19):
Trust And what's funny is we'll find out here soon.
It's not Linda that gets some and that get them caught.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
No, yeah, you go ahead, go ahead, we'll get to that.

Speaker 9 (01:24:28):
But yeah, he instructs these people, like I said, it's
Patricia Crenwinkle, Susan Atkins, Text Watson, and Linda Kasabi, and
he instructs them to get knives and to change of
clothes because he knew that this was going to be
extraordinarily bloody, and so he wanted them to be able
to shed their bloody clothes and change the new, clean ones.

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
And the plan was to lead the clean clothes in
the car. When he got back. This supposed to take
all the clothes off, throw them out the window.

Speaker 9 (01:24:57):
Yeah, there was another picture I could have included, but
want to keep bombarding Rick with photos because there's just
so many photos of this crime. But I mean, in
kind of a like, it's almost like they tossed the
clothes outside the car window or something onto the side
of the road.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
Yeah, the knives and the gun too. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:25:19):
So now Charlie has sent them to the Polanski slash
Tate home because again that was the only address that
he knew for Melcher.

Speaker 11 (01:25:29):
I don't think it would not have mattered who lived there.
Oh yeah, that was his decision. That was his symbol
for all this, This that was wrong in the world
to him, was in that house.

Speaker 9 (01:25:41):
And what's what's so creepy to me is he instructs
all of them, all four of them. He tells them, quote,
leave something witchy, yeah, in the house. So shortly after midnight,
now we're into August ninth of nineteen sixty nine, after midnight,

(01:26:04):
this attack begins. Stephen Parent who is eighteen years old
at the time, has no connection to Roman Polanski whatsoever.
Nothing was Sharon Tate. He does not know the people
in the house. He's eighteen years old. He was actually
visiting the groundskeeper. He is attacked and shot four times

(01:26:27):
right there at his cars.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
As they were coming up the road.

Speaker 11 (01:26:31):
You know, they see him, and Charlie actually walks out
into the road and flags him down and then walks
this one.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
Was he not Charlie, I'm sorry? Text yeah, Tex Watson
walks out in middle road flagging down and then walks
to the pastor's side of the car and then shoots
through the wind The windows was down. He shoots through
the pastor's side window and.

Speaker 9 (01:26:51):
Forte say you actually, this is an actual crime scene
photo here of the car where Stephen parent was shot
and you can kind of see the sheet where they
covered him up, but he allegedly had according to the
girls when they testified, I think was saying that, you know,
just let me go, like I don't know anybody in

(01:27:13):
this house like I. You know, he was begging for
his life before he died. And this is the most
merciful murder that we're going to discuss. And I'm not
going to go into graphic detail about all of them,
but him being shot four times was the most merciful death.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
Yeah, And that's saying a lot.

Speaker 9 (01:27:32):
Yeah, because now they the four of them, decided to
this kind of this was kind of the catalysts and everything.
It's been said that they went into kind of a
bloodlust almost frenzy now after Steven's murder.

Speaker 2 (01:27:49):
Yeah, Linda.

Speaker 9 (01:27:50):
We mentioned Linda Casabian to.

Speaker 11 (01:27:53):
Sabian a minute ago, and this is why because she,
according to her testimony later on, she says that once
the gunshots happened, she realized this is really went too far.
She thought in her mind that it wouldn't actually that
she knew what I was doing, but she didn't. It

(01:28:14):
didn't register until that first death. Now at that point
she says, she just try it, kind of shuts down,
she doesn't partake anything. But she's the one talking about
how the others just went and almost into bloodlust and
just kept escalating and escalating and escalating.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
They used Linda as a lookout.

Speaker 11 (01:28:32):
Yeah, well almost said. I didn't get her hands dirty,
but you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:28:47):
I think we lost the bumpstocks one moment, please.

Speaker 9 (01:29:00):
I'd be back, so okay, Yeah, I don't know if
it was just my phone going out there.

Speaker 11 (01:29:09):
Linda, I can't say. Uh, she is there, she's part
of it. She's the lookout, reluctant, but she at that
point is the one who basically kind of she I
don't know if she actually kills anyone or not, but
she does kind of participate.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:29:28):
At this point, we've got Patricia Karenwinkle, Susan Atkins, and
Tex Watson that have now moved the brutality inside the
home where the rest of them were were sharing tate this.
I hate this.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
People like the murders. Was Tex Watson.

Speaker 11 (01:29:47):
Susan Atkins again, she was at the other murder Patricia
Crinwinkle and Lynda Case.

Speaker 9 (01:29:54):
Yeah, they are the actual participants in this murder or
in this mass murder.

Speaker 10 (01:29:59):
I g it would.

Speaker 9 (01:30:00):
Qualify three or more in one location in a short
amount of times.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
So yeah, this is so so.

Speaker 9 (01:30:15):
At this time. It's always very hard for me to
talk about when it involves children. Sharon Tate is eight
and a half months pregnant. She is due any day now,
eight and a half months pregnant.

Speaker 4 (01:30:28):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (01:30:28):
She is there with her friend Abigail Folger, who was
the heiress to the Folger Cobby Company company. There's a
boy check of I can't remember his name, and I
kind of don't want to go out of it now.
I didn't write him down.

Speaker 2 (01:30:43):
You didn't write.

Speaker 9 (01:30:47):
I think I might cans in the home. At this
particular time, they are tied up, they are stabbed repeatedly.

(01:31:11):
I think it was Jay Sebring who was shot first
just to kind of disable him, and then the rest
of it. Like again, this is like, I think Abigail
Folger was stabbed like fifty two times. Some of the
other ones stabbed like twenty eight times. It was so bad.

(01:31:36):
Sharon Tate was stabbed so many times that when police
showed up to the scene and everything. They said that
they actually thought that her nightgown was originally a red nightgown,
but it was just because she had been stabbed so
many times. And it was even worse for her because
Susan Atkins actually testifies and you know, admits to somebody

(01:32:02):
that Sharon Tate was begging for her child's life. And
Susan quote, I'm gonna be kind of rude here. This
is a direct quote though. She said, look, bitch, I
don't care about you or your child.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:32:18):
And Sharon Tate was actually strung up as well from
a beam in the ceiling. And the coroner's report, based
on the evidence of struggle and everything, said that she
was strung up and everything while she was still alive.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
Yeah, she was strung up and tortured to death.

Speaker 9 (01:32:40):
And allegedly at least one of the girls, I don't
know which one one of them said that she had
thought about cutting the baby out and giving it to
Charlie as a gift. I mean, that's how brutal this
one was. And Charlie actually when they get back home,

(01:33:01):
like the scene is discovered by a housekeeper named Winnifred
Chapman and once it makes the news and everything, or
when they get back home, Charlie actually berates all of
them and says, like, for a quote, doing a messy job.

Speaker 2 (01:33:15):
Yeah, too messy, Like Charlie.

Speaker 9 (01:33:18):
Was actually complaining about how brutal it was. Yeah, but
again only because it was messy and it could have
you know, it would eventually leave them.

Speaker 11 (01:33:28):
Well, it was definitely messy and not just and I
see where Charlie's coming from on this. It's not just
messy in the blood and guts kind of way because
of the nights. But it started inside the.

Speaker 9 (01:33:39):
Home right, well, outside the home.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
It started they were sleeping home. Well, I ain't count him.
I'm talking about the knife attacks. Oh yeah, it started
the home. Well, two of them were found out by
the poodle out in the backyard.

Speaker 9 (01:33:53):
Yeah, they have been trying to flee.

Speaker 11 (01:33:55):
Oh yeah, I mean it was very chaotic and not
fast at all like the Lenda. Actually, Casabian actually says
that one of the guys came out right in front
of her, made eye contact with her, couldn't speak, but

(01:34:16):
was trying to say something.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
Stumbles past it on the way trying to escape, and she.

Speaker 11 (01:34:21):
Lets him go and then to stop him, and then
she says text actually runs past her and tackles the
guy and finishes the job out in the yard. And
while that's going on, the woman the fault was it
the folders or the Abigail folder?

Speaker 9 (01:34:38):
Sharon Tate was the only other woman in the house.

Speaker 11 (01:34:41):
She comes out running away, and in the one of
the other killers, one of the women women come out.

Speaker 9 (01:34:49):
That's one of the photos I have because there's a
like a drainage great by her head.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
Yeah, and so I mean it was it was messy
in a in the way that reckless.

Speaker 11 (01:35:02):
And yeah, the way they performed it, the way they
carried it out was messy.

Speaker 2 (01:35:06):
That's what he was mad about. The way. It's what
we would.

Speaker 9 (01:35:11):
Call a very disorganized crime scene, a very disorganized killing,
because in serial murder and everything, this is especially true
and forensic science, there's organized killers and there's disorganized This
was extremely disorganized, Like there was really not a whole
lot of planning ahead, and there was no attempt to

(01:35:33):
like hide anything that they did afterwards, other than throwing
the bloody clothes off to the side of the road
to try and dispose of that. That was about the
extent they went to try to cover this up because
again they were trying to start helter skelter, they were
trying to incite this race war. They actually used Sharon
Tate's blood to paint the word pig on the front

(01:35:54):
door of the house. So they're not trying to hide
anything here.

Speaker 2 (01:36:00):
No, Well, I think they're still trying to do to
create health the skeptic.

Speaker 9 (01:36:06):
And they're still trying to at least hide it enough
so they don't get caught immediately. That's about the extent
that they're going to hide this. But they wanted this
crime to be discovered to make the news, and it
did because again Sharon Tate was a prominent actress at
the time married to a very hot up director.

Speaker 11 (01:36:27):
Yeah, at this point, Again, me personally, I think that's
just lucky for them. I don't think they I don't
think it would have mattered who lived there.

Speaker 9 (01:36:36):
But no, I think Charlie actually did say, like, it's
still the like the celebrity Hollywood culture that's rejected us,
and they're prominent, and they'll they're white people and they'll
get the notice, they'll get the attention. Like I think
that it may not have been them specifically that he
thought of to begin with, but he was like, you
know what this a word? Okay, I'm pretty sure, based

(01:37:01):
on later interviews with Charlie over.

Speaker 11 (01:37:03):
The years, it is that he had made this house
the simple and whoever lived there just lived there.

Speaker 9 (01:37:11):
Well, that's actually what I think happened here the next night,
August tenth. I mean we have not even gone a
full twenty four hours just yet, so August tenth, in
the early morning hours, Charlie chooses.

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
His home morning being middle of the night.

Speaker 9 (01:37:29):
Yeah, I mean that after midnight hours on August tenth. Yes,
that the lobby Aca house, And this is what's so
freaking terrifying to me, was chosen at random.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
Just because of the neighborhood of his end was affluential.

Speaker 9 (01:37:45):
It was an affluent white neighborhood and everything. But yeah,
completely a random like they were not chosen specifically for anything.
So Lennon and Rosemary Lobianca, they're also stabbed to death
now and the words death to pigs is written on

(01:38:07):
a wall of their home, and then the words helter
skelter were written on the refrigerator of their house in
the victim's blood.

Speaker 2 (01:38:17):
Yeah, the.

Speaker 11 (01:38:19):
Participants in this one the murderers is again Tex Watson,
Leslie van Houton or Hunting I say hot hot or
Houghton hlut and maybe it's Houghton.

Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
And Patricia Crinwinkle is in this one as well. So
we got got some overlap. Hey, yeah, we got texts
and Patricia who were just at the Tate murderers right
back at it again with within twenty four hours going
after two more.

Speaker 9 (01:38:49):
That's probably less than twenty four hours. And I mean,
I don't know the exact timeline or anything, but and
again chosen completely at random, and to me that's just terrifying,
like that somebody could just be driving by see your
house and be like, okay that one.

Speaker 11 (01:39:05):
And then well, what's the interesting about this one is
Charlie You mentioned that he was angry at him because
it was messy. The reason they it's such a quick
turnaround is Charlie decides he's gonna take them and show
them how it's done. Yeah, so he's driving the car.

Speaker 13 (01:39:22):
It's him, let theban in the front, Casabian in the
front seat, and then you've got texts Patricia, Patricia and
Leslie van Paughten in the back seat.

Speaker 2 (01:39:35):
And so they drive down, he sees his house. He
stops and he actually says, watch this, I'll show you
how it's done. He gets out and goes in first,
Charlie does, and he attacks the family. He gets them up,
ties them, ties their hands up. I think they're back
to back, I can't remember, but anyway together, but he

(01:39:57):
ties their hands up and everything so so that they
can't get away.

Speaker 5 (01:40:02):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (01:40:02):
And then he comes back I'm sure he berates them
that's whatever it needs to do.

Speaker 2 (01:40:06):
But then he comes back out to the car. He
picks Tex, Leslie van Houghton, and Patricia Krenwinkle. He says,
now go in and do it right. And I think
the reason Tex and Patricia Krenwinkle or picked was directly

(01:40:27):
because they were there not before. He wanted to do
them right this time. I don't know why Susan Atkins
wouldn't not this one. But instead of Susan, we get
Leslie van Houghton. So they are sitting there at this point,
it's just Manson.

Speaker 11 (01:40:41):
And Linda Kesebian in the car together and they're watching
the house and they can actually see movement, you know,
in the house, so they.

Speaker 2 (01:40:50):
Know what's happening.

Speaker 11 (01:40:51):
And while that those murders are going on. Charlie takes
Linda and they drive off. They leave, They leave them
there at the house to do the dirty work. And
I'll tell you why they leave her in a minute.
But if you've got something else.

Speaker 9 (01:41:06):
I know, if we're still covering this, okay, so particular.

Speaker 11 (01:41:11):
I didn't know if you want to get into how
they I know they put pill cases over their heads
and missedab them as well.

Speaker 9 (01:41:17):
Yeah, I don't want to go into very graphic detail
about this.

Speaker 11 (01:41:21):
What was unique about this one is the appill cases
was used, which they wasn't none, they hadn't been used before. Again,
it was a very bloodlust top moment, so there's a
lot of blood and carnage inside the house. But what
the three of them did once they were done is
they all took a shower, cleaned up, and then they

(01:41:43):
raided refrigerator and ate dinner there afterwards the house with
their bodies laying in the floor. So while all this
was going on, Charlie takes Linda and they leave. Linda
had met a guy the week before prior had been
talking to and of course when she gets back to
compound and again her chaperones if she had the report

(01:42:08):
that she met somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:42:09):
You know, that's what you gotta do.

Speaker 11 (01:42:11):
Well, Charlie says, we're gonna take you to take me
to where he lives. Knock on his door. And when
he was testing Linda at this point, because I think
he kind of noticed that she had some reservations, I
guess made some guilt from the tape murders from the

(01:42:32):
night before. So he tells he instructs her to knock
on the door and when the guy opens the door,
verify that it's him and don't say a word, to
slice his throat, just kill him right there. And he
was going to stand there and watch it happen.

Speaker 2 (01:42:43):
Yeah, But.

Speaker 11 (01:42:46):
Linda reports later on in testimony that she went to
the wrong door on purpose, so that hoping that nobody
would answer the door. But when a man does come
to the door and open it, and luckily, you know
it's not the right guy, because well obviously was the

(01:43:08):
right guy because she went to the wrong house. What's
your wrong apartment for her? But uh, she plays it
off by saying, oh, I'm sorry, I got the wrong
house or wrong door. Turn around, walks off, untils Charlie,
he's not here. It's the wrong place. I can't remember
where he lives.

Speaker 2 (01:43:23):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 11 (01:43:25):
So at that point, Charlie's like, well we got to
go because we got a witness. Now, yeah, so they
actually leave. But they could have been another murder that
night very easily, and well that I think they would
have been. Even if she had to kill that guy.
I think Charlie would have killed her and probably that
guy too if.

Speaker 2 (01:43:43):
It was been the real guy.

Speaker 9 (01:43:44):
Up until this point, Charlie's hands are actually clean of
any killing.

Speaker 2 (01:43:49):
Well, they did not do any killing. Yeah, that's true.
Charlie probably wouldn't have killed her.

Speaker 9 (01:43:52):
Actually, he probably would have got somebody else.

Speaker 2 (01:43:54):
To do it, I think. But yeah, she goes to
the wrong house on purpose or the wrong apartment on
purpose and basically saves that man life.

Speaker 9 (01:44:04):
Now, I mean, there's a whole bunch more to the
timeline after these murders and everything, Like October twelfth of
sixty nine, Manson's arrested for grand theft auto, which I
think just because of I guess what they would call
criminal enterprise, like the other ones were arrested to just
kind of on similar charges helping him because November sixth

(01:44:27):
of sixty nine, Susan Atkins. While she's in jail, she
tells a fellow inmate, Virginia Castro, that she was actually
involved in the tape murders. All these people were like
free with like admitting to this. Because November twelfth of
sixty nine, Al Springer, who was a visitor to the
Spawn ranch, tells LAPD detectives that on August eleventh or twelfth,

(01:44:51):
Manson actually bragged about, quote, knocking off five pigs the
other night. So like, these people are bragging about what
they did.

Speaker 11 (01:45:00):
Yeah, and like I said, in pege tied right back
to him brighten piggy's and pegs and stuff on the door.

Speaker 9 (01:45:05):
Try because that was a common phrase for police officers
and everything that like the Black Panthers used all the time,
you know, And they were still trying to pin this
on them to incite this race war, despite bragging about
doing it themselves. Like, how stupid can you be for
somebody that's smart enough to convince people to literally kill

(01:45:25):
for him. This was incredibly stupid to me, But I
think that's more the ego thing. He wanted the credit
for this, right, you know, he needed to be the
one that everybody thought of, like oh, you brought in
the end of the world like you're the one that
did this. I think he needed that.

Speaker 11 (01:45:42):
Also, Manson bragging to his own followers about knocking off
five pegs. I think it was natural because he thought
he had them under his thumb, taught.

Speaker 2 (01:45:51):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 9 (01:45:51):
Well, this was to a visitor to the ranch, not
even a family member.

Speaker 2 (01:45:55):
Well, again, it's on his own property of type things.
I don't think he I don't think I think he
was smart enough to a lot to walk up to
that guy and tell him, Hey, guess what they probably
overheard Manson talk. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 9 (01:46:09):
We'll let's step forward to July twenty fourth of nineteen
seventy is when the Tate Loveanca murder trial with the
defendants of Charles Manson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Crinwinkle, and Leslie
vent Houghton. That's when the trial started, was July twenty fourth.
And this is like probably one of the first times
in legal history in America that Charlie Manson, somebody who

(01:46:31):
did not actually kill anybody, is charged with first degree premeditative.

Speaker 2 (01:46:37):
Murder yep, without actually and this is a death penalty case.

Speaker 9 (01:46:46):
At the same time, they're all convicted, they all get
the death penalty, but just a year later, California overturns
the death penalty, so all their sentences are commuted to
life without parole.

Speaker 2 (01:46:58):
Of the judge.

Speaker 9 (01:47:00):
On August tenth of nineteen seventy, Judge Older granted Linda
Kassavian immunity from prosecution for the Tate Lobby Aca murders
in return for agreeing to appear as a prosecution star witness.
So she had to agree to in order to get immunity.
You cannot leave anything else. You have to tell everything.

Speaker 2 (01:47:22):
I've got more on her too.

Speaker 9 (01:47:23):
We have time, I don't think we will because we're
gonna have to do our end memorial here soon. So
I'm just trying to kind of burn through the last
pertinent details here. Well. I thought was interesting. November thirtieth
of nineteen seventy, defense attorney Ronald Hughes failed to show
up in court and was never seen again, which was

(01:47:44):
kind of speculated that the family quote unquote had him killed.
But I always thought that was kind of interesting that
this man just was never seen again. They were convicted
on January twenty, nineteen seventy one. They convict all of
them again, Charlie the girls text every single one of them.

(01:48:07):
They all get convicted. Manson was ordered to San Quentin's
death Row the California February eighteenth of nineteen seventy two,
the California Supreme Court declares the death penalty unconstitutional and
Manson and the rest of their sentences are automatically reduced
to life in prison. So that's when he's transferred to

(01:48:29):
Folsom Prison, where he proceeds to get the Blues assume.

Speaker 2 (01:48:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:48:37):
Yeah, he's after that sent to Vodkaville Prison, where he
remains for the next nine years. There was an inmate
in September of September twenty fifth of nineteen eighty four
claimed God told me to kill Manson set Manson on fire,
which caused serious burns to large parts of Manson's body. Well,

(01:49:01):
that's where he's transferred to San Quentin.

Speaker 2 (01:49:03):
Can be all that large only of two Yeah, I mean,
not a whole.

Speaker 9 (01:49:06):
Lot of space to work with there, And for Manson,
I think it probably should have been worse. I think
he deserved that. But yeah, I mean, yeah, he's burning
now for sure. But the house, actually, the house at
Colo Drive was demolished. It was, it was just taken down. Manson,

(01:49:33):
you know, has come up for parole and everything before
his death and everything. But he actually died at age
of eighty three in twenty seventeen of natural causes, which
again to me is too good for him.

Speaker 2 (01:49:44):
I think a lot of people are familiar with Manxon
his paroles shenanigans, because that's like you mentioned earlier, the
schwashka on his head started off, He's just across like
a plus sign kind of, and.

Speaker 9 (01:49:56):
Then it started as an X. He did that because
he said he was going to cancel himself from society
and then like the girls put the X on their
forehead and that's why.

Speaker 11 (01:50:07):
It wasn't ex and turns it into his swashta gun.
But every time he'd come up for parole, he would
act out. I mean, you could sell and again he
can harke him back to this. First he ever chanced
for parole, he he told him, no, I don't want
to leave.

Speaker 9 (01:50:22):
Well, it wasn't parole, it was sentence.

Speaker 2 (01:50:25):
Was up and the prisons rovercrowded and all that stuff.

Speaker 9 (01:50:27):
So yeah, that was March twenty versus sixty seven.

Speaker 11 (01:50:30):
So and I think every time he come up for parole.
Obviously was going to be denied, but he did everything
he could to make sure it was denied too. Yeah,
he wanted to stay in prison.

Speaker 9 (01:50:41):
But yeah, again, I mean, we've covered everybody that was
involved in this, but I always want to leave off
with who we lost because of it. I did send
Rick all eight photos of the victims, so I asked
him to put that up and I'll read their name
games all for our end memoriam. Uh, they'll they'll be

(01:51:04):
in order too, from you know, top left to the bottom.
But I'll give him a second queue up that the
photo of them, because this is one It's not like
Jonestown or anything. There's not nine hundred victims to memorialize here,
so I can actually do it live this time.

Speaker 4 (01:51:28):
Hang on computers being dumb.

Speaker 9 (01:51:30):
Oh you're good. All it's the photo of the eight
of them, because there were eight total, Okay of the
victims nine actually i'll mention that is that them? Yeah,

(01:51:50):
that's all of them, and again from the top left.
I'll just I'll start it from there.

Speaker 4 (01:52:03):
Where'd you go? I can still see you, but I
can no longer hear you.

Speaker 2 (01:52:11):
We're going on our side to be here.

Speaker 9 (01:52:14):
You're back now, Okay, give me a second look up
the I have it on my notepad feature, so I
can't apparently go.

Speaker 2 (01:52:27):
Out of the Yeah. No, when you leave, you leave, okay, Yeah?

Speaker 9 (01:52:33):
Yeah. Up top is Gary Henman is the first one.
Then that's Abigail Folger. I think it was J. C. Bring. Next,
Lino Lobianca bottom left, Now that's Sharon Tate, a photo
of her when she was pregnant. Then Steven parent and

(01:52:54):
then that's boy check for Kowski. And and of miss Lobyanca.
What was her name?

Speaker 2 (01:53:05):
Ros Rosemary m Rosemary.

Speaker 9 (01:53:09):
Rosemary Lobyanca there at the bottom. And I do want
to make an extra mention in our ind memoriam of
the unborn child that was killed when his or her
mother I think it was a boy, Sharon Tate when
she was killed. We lost we lost him too, he counts.

(01:53:30):
I mean again, she was eight and a half months pregnant,
she was due any.

Speaker 2 (01:53:34):
Day, Leno Lobyanka and Rosemary.

Speaker 8 (01:53:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:53:40):
So yeah, we've got Gary Henman, We've got Abigail Folger,
Jay se Bring, Leno Lobbyanka, Sharon Tate, Steven parents, Voichek Frakowski,
and Rosemary Lobyanka. Those are the ones that we lost
over the course of between July and August of nineteen

(01:54:03):
sixty nine. That will was Hmman on there him Man's
first one.

Speaker 2 (01:54:10):
Okay, I'm sorry.

Speaker 11 (01:54:12):
I apologize because I was trying to find names because
we had a little bit of a malfunction.

Speaker 2 (01:54:16):
But my apologies for that.

Speaker 9 (01:54:19):
But yes, yeah, I didn't really we have to do
this on my phone because apparently it like glitches out
when I try to do it on the laptop. He late,
so I couldn't go back to my notepad feature to
get the names, so Daniel had to pull them up
for me. But yeah, like I said, it's Gary Henman,
Abigail Folger, J C. Bring Lino Lbyanka, Sharon Tate, Stephen

(01:54:42):
parent Voi check Forkowski, and Rosemary Labyanka and Sharon Tate's
unborn son. Yep, we had nine victims over the course
from between the end of July to the very early
part of August of nineteen sixty nine. But I think
that will conclude us, So y'all can we usually always

(01:55:05):
tell you where you can find us. I'm bump Stock
Barbie on X also write for Twitchy and I've got
my author page in my bio there. You can find
our show at FP Underscore Forensics on X and anywhere
like klare in anywhere you get your podcasts and everything.
You can find us there.

Speaker 2 (01:55:28):
But you I'm just bump stock king on it.

Speaker 9 (01:55:32):
Yeah, super easy. Yeah, I think that about wraps up,
and this I think is going to be the last
one we do for a while in the cult series.
We're going to go back at least for temporarily. We
may add more to it later on.

Speaker 11 (01:55:50):
So next week we're going to the same time, the
same channel. Just we're gonna be back on serial Killers,
or we'll go back to my.

Speaker 9 (01:55:57):
Bread and butter. So I may actually pick a handful
of cases to do and let you all vote on
them again.

Speaker 2 (01:56:07):
But I said it was interesting to kind of focus
on colts and we'll do this again later on.

Speaker 9 (01:56:14):
Oh yeah, we'll do different series.

Speaker 11 (01:56:16):
Yeah, we'll series, but we're gonna get right back into
what brought us to the dance, you know, next week, Saint,
Like I said, seven pm Central and whatnot. But but thanks,
I hope you all enjoyed it, Uh found it interesting
and interacted with us, So thank y'all for doing that
as well.

Speaker 9 (01:56:34):
Yeah, I think we I think we covered more than
enough detail in this one.

Speaker 2 (01:56:39):
So m h. I had a bunch of other stuff
for Oh.

Speaker 9 (01:56:43):
Yeah, we still could have gone for another two hours
on this one, but.

Speaker 11 (01:56:47):
I think it's fine just go and wrap up with
the meat of the story. Maybe later on, well we
can do not an update, but something on.

Speaker 9 (01:56:54):
Just to add to it. Yeah, we always like to
end on the victims that we've lost.

Speaker 2 (01:57:00):
Yeah, we started this with the transcult from Steven.

Speaker 9 (01:57:05):
Yeah, and you know and yeah is cold he there
have been arrest in that.

Speaker 2 (01:57:11):
In that case, we we.

Speaker 11 (01:57:13):
Made a we promised updates as they come along, and
we gave an update a few a couple of weeks
ago about some of the corner that so far to
have many updates from that.

Speaker 2 (01:57:24):
There's some trial dates that that hadn't come around yet.

Speaker 9 (01:57:27):
But the leader, the leader is quote unquote himself. He's
been arrested to and apparently trying to focus on death
again in a nutshot.

Speaker 2 (01:57:35):
It's crazy.

Speaker 11 (01:57:36):
When we get more updates, we'll we'll we'll toss it
out there for you guys because it's pretty interesting.

Speaker 9 (01:57:41):
Yeah, and again that was active and ongoing right now.

Speaker 11 (01:57:43):
So but thanks for joining us. We'll catch y'all loose
tonight and we love to see you next week.

Speaker 9 (01:57:51):
So good night, you guys.

Speaker 10 (01:58:00):
Lot of True Cry I listened to her that night.

Speaker 9 (01:58:05):
I like the girl talk.

Speaker 10 (01:58:08):
It makes me feel all. I like scary stories on
the morning, and I like them that night. I like
the girl talk vibes.

Speaker 9 (01:58:20):
Maybe maybe I'll just I listen to a lot of
True Cry.