The one about the Annunciation Catholic School shooting. A Sanctuary Under Fire”

Episode Transcript
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I listened to a lot of true crime.

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I listened to her that night.

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Good evening, k l ri N Radio, Friends, fiends, and family.
I am bump stock Ken and your hostess, as always,
is the wonderful bump stock Barbie. Hey you guys, welcome
to Frontports. For instance, you're setting with us on the
port night under some pretty heavy clouds. This ain't one

(04:18):
of our history lessons or an old case from the
yellow newspapers. This is one that's still warm to the touch,
fresh as the tears being shed in Minneapolis right now.
This episode is the one about Annunciation Catholic School shooting
a sanctuary underfire. Joining us our special guests is Carl

(04:41):
and Jason. You can find them on its.

Speaker 9 (04:46):
You know, we tag them earlier, so y'all should be
able to find their handles pretty easily.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
We'll have them introduce themselves in a moment and they
can give that information, but we'll bring them in soon
to share with us, to share with all of us
what I believe to be exactly what's needed. And I'm
really excited for Jason here shortly to fill us all
in on those details. So Carl, if you want to
say hi and tell people where they can find you.

Speaker 10 (05:14):
Hey, what's up, everybody? My name is Carl, and your
hosts and hostess said, I'm on at at your smart ass, Carl.
If you just type that into the search engine, you'll
be able to find my handle. I'm a security officer
and a true crying officiano. So I'm happy to be

(05:40):
here and thank you guys for the mic.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
Oh yeah, we love having you back. Carl. That boy
sounds familiar. He was with us last year for a
mass shooting episode two.

Speaker 9 (05:51):
Yeah, that was the one where they ended up like
shutting down towards to the interstate and everything trying to
find this person.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
So I'm glad to have you back. Carl and Jay,
if you want to introduce yourself, your need to the show.
This is your first time with us and hopefully it
won't be your last.

Speaker 11 (06:05):
So yeah, I'm new and thank you for the invite.
My name is Jason, and on three D Response it's
a Jason three D Responses, I think is my name.
I've been a police officer for thirty years. I just
retired this past June. I served as a patrol officer,
a school resource officer undercovering narcotics, sergeant lieutenant as also

(06:31):
our active Shooter instructor for twenty years and also oversaw
the actor of the School Resource Officer program during that
time period as well investigations three crimes. It kind of did.
The Gauntlet created a system, got it patented, it was

(06:52):
We started it in twenty fourteen and the patent the
system was completed in about twenty seventeen and we're installed
in eighteen schools thus far. But I think you guys
will we'll like a different point of view on this topic.
When we listen to others opinions to to kind of

(07:14):
open open our minds a little bit and let's think
about this.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, really, Yeah, that's exactly why I wanted to have
you on because this debate every time, especially when it's
the school shooting or something like that.

Speaker 9 (07:26):
I guess so heated emotions run high, like naturally.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
So and as always seems to be two predominant teams.
You have the let's arm the school staff versus get
rid of all guns altogether, right, and and what I
you know, I obviously I lean more towards the school staff.
I think the Second Amendment is very important. But this

(07:50):
other option here that I'm excited for Jason to share
with us, I think could be it. I love the
idea of it, and I'm really looking forward to hearing
you lay it out. But I want to get tonight,
we're going to talk about what happened here this past
week for our part of the show, and then we'll
kind of lean it over towards more Carl and Jason.

(08:10):
But of course you guys are welcome to jump in
if y'all got something you want to add or yeah,
it's not.

Speaker 9 (08:16):
A super formal show or anything, So if y'all got
something to say, like yeah, just interject anytime.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yep. All right. So, as I said, this is about
Annunciation Catholic Church in school on August twenty seventh, a
sanctuary turned into a slaughterhouse. I'm sure most people listen
to this and have seen the news stories already so

(08:42):
they know what I'm talking about. But a man with
three guns and a storm inside ha said open fire
on children gathered for mass. Two are dead, eighteen are wounded,
and a whole community is scarred. This episode will not
be easy, but we owe it to these little ones

(09:02):
to speak plainly and to set inside that horror without
flinching about it.

Speaker 9 (09:07):
Well, I'll probably flinch a lot because it does deal
with children. And everybody who's listening to the show before
y'all know me with anything that affects children, because we
are parents as most of y'all are too.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
So tonight we're talking about facts. We're gonna try to
understand what broke inside the shooter's head, how that shooter
got to the point where he got. So we're going
to talk about mental health, how about how it's being militarized.

(09:39):
We will discuss sanctuaries turning in the soft targets by
these gun free zones. It's gonna be heavy and it's
gonna be raw, but some things have to be.

Speaker 9 (09:49):
Yeah, there's really no way to talk about this without being,
like you said, unflinching and facing things that like parents
and everything don't want to have to think about.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, we're gonna hurt some feelings to not make people mad,
I'm sure, but I want to start at the beginning.
It's the first week of school. The kids there where
they got the fresh uniforms on. They're excited, the parents
are feeling that midst of pride and nerves. Wednesday morning
rolls around, it's Mass time at the again. It's Annunciation

(10:23):
Catholic Church, the kind of ritual that grounds the community altogether.
You know how a school's back the whole Community's not
just the kids in this school. But we're gonna talk
about specifically this school, but it fits the whole community
that time of year.

Speaker 9 (10:39):
That said, I mean, all their kids were going back
to school, even if it wasn't that specific school, and
all of us parents like and Carl, You're gonna be
going through this in just a very few short years
with your own sweet little baby.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
So yeah, like I said, it's the kind of ritual
that comes every year and the whole community understands it,
and it's something that is the norm. You come to
expect it. But this time we have gunfire. This shooter
stood outside firing through the church windows. A total of

(11:12):
one hundred and sixteen rounds that was found panic in
the pews. They had children screaming, teachers trying to shield them,
Priests and parents both were diving to cover the smallest
and youngest of the kids. By the time it was over,
two children laid dead, eight year old Fletcher Merkle and
ten year old Harper Morsky. Fifteen other children were wounded.

(11:37):
Three elderly parishioners hit as well, and all of them
are expected to survive at this point. We got one
that's still in pretty critical condition. But even then survival
it does not mean healed at all.

Speaker 9 (11:51):
Yeah, that's gonna be trauma. That's gonna be PTSDI that
they're all going to have to find a way to
cope with and everything. The shooter is identified as twenty
three year old Robert Westman. I'm not going to use
his preferred name or his preferred pronounce this was a
mentally ill man. He carried a rifle, a shotgun, and

(12:12):
a pistol that were all legally purchased. He fired until
the church was just torn open, and then he turned
the gun on himself, which Carl and I have talked
about stuff like that before. That's usually often how these
things end. Police ended up finding an arsenal in his home.
Ammunition was stockpiled, journals full of violent fantasies, self hatred,

(12:34):
and manifestos that he scheduled to publish online, which we
saw some of that on YouTube, yes, before it was
all scrubbed. This was not an impulsive thing. This was very,
very premeditated, and it wasn't just an attack on a school.
It was an attack on symbols. It was an attack on
faith and the innocence of childhood. And that's why the

(12:57):
FBI is already looking at this as a potential domestic
terrorism and a hate crime against Catholics.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Right now, folks, here's where we've got a pause, because
it's easy to say that this was just a crazy monster,
kind of a one off in this move on, but
that doesn't explain why these massacres keep happening. Robert Westman's
journals talk about a breakup that wrecked him on the inside,

(13:25):
about confusion about his gender identity, about rage boiling into
an obsession. It was full of contradition, contradictions, a hot mess.
One you'd be reading at one moment about him just
loathing himself, and then the next one would be like
these grandiose fantasies.

Speaker 9 (13:44):
Delusions of grandeur exactly, and everything you see that play out.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
And he talked about hating government on all forms. Obviously
he talked about hating Donald Trump, but he talked about
hating government altogether. Two he was across the board.

Speaker 9 (14:00):
Yeah, pretty mess up on that, Like I said, hot mess.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
Yeah. And when you read it, you don't see some
sort of mastermind. What you see is like a lost scared,
obviously confused and unraveling of the mind. Is like it
was all tangled up in pain and he couldn't get
untangled from it.

Speaker 9 (14:18):
I say, I don't think that he really ever came
to terms with the pain that he was feeling. Like
there was never anything Apparently nobody or even if they
did pick up on it, nobody ever got into help
to come to terms with what he was feeling.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, a lot of people are in the mindset now
that you don't need help.

Speaker 9 (14:37):
I mean, there's still a lot of stigma around mental
health issues, and that's kind of what we need to
have a discussion about.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
I mean, it's bad enough when that kind of sickness
goes untreated, but when it's actually fed, when it's fueled
by these lies that are made to create fear and
instill this paranoia, it's like a at least it sets
a stage, right, Yeah, I mean this guy, it creates

(15:07):
the ability for him to make his agony visible.

Speaker 9 (15:14):
Yeah, wanted he wanted other people to share in the
pain that he was feeling. Well, there's a reason we
always say misery loves company because it absolutely does. And
I mean people can hear this and they're gonna say, well,
you're excusing him. I'm like, no, we're not excusing him.
We're not justifying anything, we're not rationalizing it. We're just
trying to understand it is all we're doing. But I mean,

(15:37):
here is the actual, just the truth, the blatant, just
baseline truth. Untreated mental illness doesn't just eat at the person,
It ends up spilling over, Like it comes out in
some way. It always does. So now you add in isolation,

(15:59):
constant fear mongering that we're hearing now social community that
creates this big bad villain, especially as we're gonna see
like Christians have been turned into that villain. This turns
into a parent's worst nightmare, just this utter catastrophe. And
I mean we me and Daniel here at from for

(16:20):
for Forensics, we try our best to keep this show
as a political as possible, but it's simply not possible
for this case. I read recently, like just the other day,
it was a new study done two point eight million
people in the USA today identify as transgender, and most

(16:41):
of these are adolescents, and there is evidence that a
majority of them are on like the autism spectrum in
some way, like they just they've fallen there somewhere. This
has now become a social contagion. This is not something
These people don't are not really suffering from any kind
of identity crisis like gender dysphoria or anything. This is

(17:03):
simply the new thing for these these kids and these
young people to feel seen, to feel like they're being heard,
that they're being listened to. I mean, these people are
constantly now being told by the left of conservatives, which
basically is anyone on the right, but especially conservative Christians

(17:26):
want to eradicate or eliminate them in some way. So
now this rhetoric has created this environment of fear and
instills in them a sense of self preservation in a way,
I guess. I mean, these people are already clearly suffering
from something, and this whole transgender movement, this gender ideology

(17:49):
cult as I call it personally, this has made this
has given them a way that they can feel seen,
that they can feel heard. And like this one, this
most recent shooting that we're talking about, this is an
echo to me of the Tennessee shooting we saw just
a few short years ago, right with that woman Audrey
I think her name was Audrey Aubrey something like that,

(18:12):
and she identified as a as a man and everything,
but obviously wasn't but she felt like I think this
was actually a school that she went to herself. But
in her manifesto like she felt that like Christians, especially
conservative Christians, were like out to get her and people
like her.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
The word genocide Now.

Speaker 9 (18:35):
Yes, exactly, I mean, no, we want to eradicate the
mental illness that kind of like drives this where these
people feel like they can't be happy unless they completely
change who they are and everything. We want to fix that.
We don't want these people to die, We don't want
to kill them, like, nothing like that at all. I

(18:56):
mean this Robert Westman, he was only twenty three years old,
so he's a very very susceptible age for this. That's
young enough to still be forming his own identity, but
old enough to feel like he should have it figured
out at this point, yeh. Which I think that's another
thing as parents can talk about, like, look, if you're
in your twenties and you still don't really know what
you want to do with your life, cool, that's okay.

(19:17):
We can have conversations about this, like we can help
you work through all this. A lot of this, like
we parents need to take back our children and you know,
be more mindful. I think. But this gap between the
expectation and the reality, this is very very fertile ground
for complete despair for a lot of these people, and

(19:39):
this one, his despair ended up growing into hate thanks
to the rhetoric that he was being fed.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, and hate always wants an audience, Like said, he
didn't just kill he wrote all these manifestos, he scheduled
YouTube uploads to pop up after the fact. He wanted
his pain to be felt, he wanted to echo. That
tells us that again, he wasn't just suicidal. He was

(20:07):
actually making a performance out of it.

Speaker 9 (20:09):
Yeah, And like I've said before, these are people who
just want to feel seen and heard. And the other
episode we did with Carl, Carl and I talked about,
you know, mass shootings and that these are essentially performative suicides. Right, Well,
that's just that's how they go. Like for the for
the most part, you have a few that like turn
themselves in when they get arrested and everything. But for

(20:29):
the most part, these types of shooters never intend to
survive the shooting.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
No, And I think that is true because he said
those YouTube videos up afterwards. He knew that he wasn't
gonna walk out of there.

Speaker 9 (20:45):
Yeah, he scheduled those, Like I mean, you can a
lot of times with like especially like x pro or something,
you can schedule a tweet to go out later, you know,
like at a certain time, certain day and time.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
You can do that with YouTube videos as well. So
now let's get to the hard talk here. This was
a church. This was also a school, but mainly it's
what everybody calls gun free zones. We all hear them
called that. The shooter also knew that's what it was,

(21:20):
a gun free zone. He knew nobody inside that sanctuary
would be armed, that no one will be able to
fight back. And that's the part people can't stop arguing about.

Speaker 9 (21:30):
And we do need to know that these gun free zones.
We already know through other studies, like multiple other studies,
about ninety four percent of mass shootings like this occur
in these places because, like you said, they know that
nobody can defend themselves. That they're sitting ducks at this.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Point, right, And like what I say is gun free
zones are nothing but targets. You put up a sign
that says no weapons, and all you've done is advertised
to a killer that this is a safe place to slaughter.

Speaker 9 (22:04):
Yeah, like I said, sitting ducks.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah. Now the other side, they say that arming schools
and churches just means that more blood will be spilled,
more accidents will happen, There'll be more chances for a
kid to stumble across the pistol. I guess they think
we're just going to leave them laying around on top
of the desk.

Speaker 9 (22:22):
Yeah, if like you know, staff or you know, teachers
or whoever they if they choose to be armed and everything,
it absolutely should be concealed. It absolutely should be put
away where no kid could actually like potentially stuff on
it and grab it, you know, I mean, just common
sense stuff there.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
I mean, it's it's not like we're going to hand
the guns to the kids as they walk through the door. Yeah,
that's not what we're talking about now. But it always,
we'll always get stuck in this circle where we're just
arguing about these two main sides, and pews and our
school desks are still getting stained with blood because the

(23:01):
truth of it is, signs do not save children. When
your system relies on the honor of a killer to
obey a sticker on a door, that system ain't worth
the pay for it's printed on.

Speaker 9 (23:14):
No, absolutely not. I mean, these people are already bound
and determined to commit murder, which is like basically the
worst law you could break in my opinion. They're already
bound and determined to do this. So what do you
think this sign outside of door or a sticker on
the door is actually going to do? For someone who's
already decided that they want to take loves.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
And is it gonna do nothing.

Speaker 9 (23:34):
Yeah, it's anything.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
It's going to tell them to say, oh look, you
know the prey here is easy.

Speaker 9 (23:40):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
That's how the predators are. You look at the wild.
A predator is not gonna go after a healthy line
or I mean, are a healthy zebra or anything. A
line is going to go after the weak or the young. Yeah,
and that's exactly what these predators, these monsters are doing.

Speaker 9 (23:54):
Yeah, it's just human form.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (23:57):
But I mean this is absolutely not the first that
America's sanctuaries like schools or churches have turned bloody. I
mean I can list them off off the top of
my head. Basically, we got Columbine in nineteen ninety nine.
I mean, they turned that high school into a battlefield.
Then you got Sutherland Springs, Texas in twenty seventeen, which
was a Baptist church that was gunned down in mid service.

(24:20):
But it is worth noting that it was incidentally a
good guy with a gun that brought down that shooter.
To say that Sandy Hook is a glaring one to me.
That was in twenty twelve, twenty children, six teachers were
murdered in elementary school. Adam Lanza was the shooter in
that one. He actually killed his mother to get her guns,

(24:40):
and he originally intended to target his high school, but
they actually had armed security, and so he targeted the
elementary school instead.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
They saw that his gun free zone wasn't gun freeze all.
He went down, They went to a different one.

Speaker 9 (24:53):
I mean, then we can move like Charleston in twenty fifteen,
a Bible study circle turned into a massacre. I mean,
like you said, these killers are looking for vulnerability. The
Columbine shooter scouted soft targets. The Southern Spring shooter picked
a Sunday service because he knew it would be unguarded.
There was a Buffalo supermarket shooter who mapped out a
place with no armed response. This is not a coincidence anymore.

(25:17):
This is now an established pattern. But that doesn't mean that,
you know, we have to flood every sanctuary with firearms,
Like I don't necessarily believe that's the answer either, because then,
especially in churches you're not worshiping anymore. You have become
like kind of a military type his own right, like

(25:41):
Daniel and I carry whenever we leave the house in general,
but most people at our church don't.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
No, I think we're we may be the only ones
that might be one other that I suspect.

Speaker 9 (25:53):
But as I say, you would never know it just
walking into church and you know, hugging decks and talking
to people like you just never know about it. But
I think, and you know, me and Carl talked about
this before, We've talked about it quite often. I think
the main thing here is mental illness. Yes, early intervention

(26:14):
is so we aren't letting these broken people spiral this
far in the first place.

Speaker 11 (26:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
And also we're not justifying their mental illness.

Speaker 9 (26:24):
It's OK, Yeah, we're not gonna like enable this in
any way. Like, yes, something is wrong, something is kind
of broken, and it needs to be fixed. Yep, that's
what we're saying here. I mean, according to one study,
around sixty percent of mass shooters have been diagnosed with
a mental disorder or had demonstrated signs of serious untreated
psychiatric illness before their attacks. Like, I mean, let's go

(26:48):
back to the Columbine kids. I mean, these boys their
parents did talk about like yeah, they were withdrawn, they
were kind of isolated. They there were all these there before,
So there are like things that you can look to
and everything. Of the most common diagnoses actually are paranoid

(27:12):
schizophrenia and severe depression, which we've seen again Columbine. These
boys both suffered severe depression. I do want to note
here that the vast majority of people with mental disorders
don't typically engage in violent behaviors, and I have not
found any empirical means of effectively identifying a potential mass murder.

(27:36):
But again, there are signs you can look for, and
mass murder is actually very very just in general. Mass murder.
Mass shootings are even rarer. But mass murder only makes
up at like zero point two percent of total homicide

(27:58):
victims every year, and about one percent of homicide victims
I think. And of that zero point two percent of
mass murders, only twelve percent of those are mass shootings.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
So twelve percent of zero point two percent.

Speaker 9 (28:13):
Yeah, those are mass shootings. For the most part, I
think familia sides, which is, you know, the what we see,
like the murder suicides, you get the husband or the
wife or whatever kill their entire family and then themselves.
That kind of thing is the most common. And then

(28:35):
like the felony related murders, like gang related shootings and
stuff like that. But gun control lobbying groups are not
telling the truth about mass shootings, like we get them
all the time, just this year, like several of them,
like every town moms demand all them. They've already claimed
we've had close to four hundred mass shootings this year alone.

(28:55):
But again, it only works if they factor in the
familia sides and the gang activity. That's the only way
that works, and gang activity is going to make up
like at least eighty to ninety percent of that. So
these things are just not what comes to mind when
you hear the phrase mass shooting. I think it's completely

(29:15):
dishonest and misleading and it does nothing to address the
issue of mass shootings. So, and like you had mentioned earlier,
the soft target locations, these gun free zones, all that
we have to take this aspect of this head on
if we want to be proactive about saving lives. Really,
So that's where like Carl and Jason are going to

(29:37):
come in, because they, like Jason especially, has an interesting
and encouraging option or solution to this. Carl and I
have talked about his solution and his response system before
but I'm thrilled that we actually have Jason on now
to talk about this, so welcome you guys. We can

(29:59):
all to discuss actually proactive measures here that we can
take to protect not only our children, but others as well.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, they take on any what would consider the soft target. Yeah,
and like I said, I think step number one is
actually be honest about mental illness and treat it correctly.
But step number two is the soft target issues. Yeah,
I think that's going to make the best combination. And
I think what Jason here has could be that answer.

Speaker 9 (30:29):
And yeah, what Jason's got, Like, I know, the left
doesn't like stuff like this because they only consider it
a proactive solution. If you want sweeping and unconstitutional gun control,
they've got to ban the guns.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Well, what I like about three D response is that
it there should be it should appeal to a lot
of logically leaning left him.

Speaker 9 (30:53):
I mean, this is again a proactive solution.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Take your emotions out of and actually listen with logic,
and I think you will agree with it. So I'm
going to step away. I'll be back here in the background.
I'll let you guys take this over and.

Speaker 9 (31:09):
Say, yeah, I'm gonna give Jason and Carl on the
floor now, so let's hear from you guys.

Speaker 10 (31:17):
Go ahead, girl, all right, Well, first and foremost again,
thank you guys for having me on the show. So,
you know, one thing about mass shootings that you guys
touched on perfectly is a lot of the times these

(31:38):
people are suffering from some type of next elements. It
usually is depression, and that depression can lead to suicide,
suicide ideation. And another part of it is the fact
that a lot of the times we individuals want to

(32:00):
man's a hot body count, they worship past mass shooters.
You guys brought up Columbine a few times. This particular
individual who shot up the church in Minnesota worshiped the
christ Church shooter, the one out in New Zealand. He

(32:22):
shot up a mosque. I think he killed nearly fifty people.
But what stuck out to me is the writings on
his weapons. The New Zealand christ Church shooter did the
same thing. This guy did the same thing with his guns.

(32:44):
We had the Buffalo shooter out in New York who
shot up supermarket, who did the same thing. So a
lot of the times, you know, you will start to
see some signs and one sign is if they are worshiping.

Speaker 11 (33:00):
Man.

Speaker 10 (33:01):
There's a difference between someone who is like, you know,
interested in true crime, interested in true crime.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
But.

Speaker 10 (33:13):
Someone who's worshiping these shooters, like writing love letters or
putting them in manifest those and.

Speaker 9 (33:23):
Yeah. See, I mean I have to tell people all
the time, like, yeah, i may be fascinated with true crime,
but like I'm the least dangerous person you're ever going
to meet.

Speaker 11 (33:31):
Exactly, but.

Speaker 10 (33:34):
Exactly so, you know a lot of the times when
you know, it's if you see someone who is hibiting
these types of behavior. There was a shooter out and
I forget what country it was. I want to say Norway,

(33:54):
but I could be wrong.

Speaker 11 (33:56):
But there's the one.

Speaker 9 (33:57):
I think it was like June or July or something.

Speaker 10 (34:02):
No, not that one.

Speaker 9 (34:03):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (34:03):
That's that's uh.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (34:07):
I don't like saying their names, but that is the uh.
That's the one that killed like over seventy people on
the island.

Speaker 9 (34:13):
Yeah, that camp and everything for the kids.

Speaker 10 (34:15):
It was it was another individual who was like he
was a YouTuber, yeah, and he was showing signs that
he could potentially hurt someone. And another rival YouTuber uh
pointed it out and said hey, it was this guy
named the Maven atheist who uh pointed it out, like, hey,

(34:39):
this guy could hurt somebody. He could actually go into
you know, actually end up killing someone. He actually walked.
He his prediction came to pass. He actually went to
a school in his former high school and shot and
killed a few people. So so, you know, when it

(35:00):
comes to the mental health aspect of it, and this
is something that people don't really really uh explore. Now,
there's a difference between someone who is suffering from mental
uh poor mental health, and then there's people who are
mentally unstable.

Speaker 11 (35:22):
I believe the ones, the.

Speaker 10 (35:24):
Ones who are mass shooters are mentally unstable. These are
people who are depressed with suicidal ideation.

Speaker 9 (35:33):
So I'm talked about before a lot of those it's
it's the mass shooting itself is sleep performative suicide.

Speaker 10 (35:41):
Yes, yes, they just want to take it. They just
want to take as many people out as they can.
I split mass shooters up into three different categories. Uh,
there's the ones who are criminals. These are you people
who are gaged within gangs. They're fighting over drug turf

(36:02):
or territory stuff like that. You know, they are have
orders to kill on site when it comes to their
rival game members. The second category is the people who
are trying to make a religious or political statement. These
are people who like the shoot out shooters out in

(36:26):
San Bernardino, who was who shot up a Christmas party
of their co workers and had played the elitis, the
Isis and things like that.

Speaker 9 (36:38):
So these are yeah.

Speaker 10 (36:41):
And then the third category, I will say, is what
we're talking about today. The people who are mentally disturbed, depressed,
worship past mass shooters like their gods, want to go
out and leave their mark on the world. They usually
are targeting children, or churches, or or our long racial

(37:10):
lines or anything like that in order to leave people
shocked in mourning. And we talk about them like how
we talk about the Columbine shooters almost twenty six years later, right.

Speaker 9 (37:23):
Yeah, when we see these people wanting to like their
favorite mass shooters and everything, they want to like top them,
they want to outdo them.

Speaker 11 (37:31):
Yep. Yeah, and yeah.

Speaker 10 (37:35):
So that's the three different categories I see it as
usually it's always one of those three motives. So I'll
landed there and let Jason talk.

Speaker 11 (37:48):
I don't really know where to begin, so I wrote
my thesis paper on active shooters and research the hell
out of this topic and the inter and I look
at this from more of a fifty thousand foot view.
And the interesting thing is, you know, the one thing

(38:10):
I hear is I can't believe it's come to this.
And the actual first recorded school shooting was in the
late seventeen hundreds, and it's been here for hundreds of years.
It really started to escalate in the nineteen seventies, and
you have to ask yourself, Okay, what happened then? Who knows?

(38:32):
It could have been medicine, I mean, who knows what happened,
But there was an uptick. I personally believe.

Speaker 9 (38:43):
A lot of stuff socially and everything going on in
the seventies too, Like you could I've heard people lay
it like at at the foot of social issues and
everything too, the like basically almost what like the age
of Aquarius from the sixties. Yeah, but there's a lot

(39:05):
of stuff that you could say like, oh, well, it
was this or it was that.

Speaker 11 (39:14):
Yeah, I think it. You know, it's obviously a generational thing.
And the problem with generational problems is it takes generations
to get to the cause of those problems. Absolutely, because
you have a group of you know, today's kindergarteners have
a different mindset than we did, and they just they

(39:34):
look at the world differently, which is influenced by a
buttload of stuff. I still to this day say, you know,
the Internet was created out of I think good intentions,
but some of the best intentions have the worst results.
And I I I think our children are just subjected
to way too much. I think our parenting across this

(39:58):
nation has declined drastically. And to me, that's the biggest
thing is.

Speaker 9 (40:04):
We I agree one hundred I agree, and you know
you said the good intentions, but we all know what
the road to hell is paved with, so.

Speaker 11 (40:16):
Right, and we need to keep in mind here too.
So I've investigated over sixty active shooter threats just in
the city that I worked in, which at this point
in time is about seventy thousand people. So on average,
we were receiving about five active shooter or bombing threats

(40:37):
to our schools, and none of them made the news
because we got in front of it. So when you
talk about red flags and whatnot, I'll give you one example.
We had one case where there was a student that
was from kindergarten, and I think it was a junior

(41:00):
the whole time. Not one disciplining action, not one complaint,
not one issue with this child. One day at home,
he decides to take a hammer to the back of
his dad's head and then a knife to his mom,

(41:23):
and somehow the mom got to the phone and called us. Thankfully.
He was a real He was a frail kid, and
he grabbed a finishing nail. So he did damage, but
not a whole lot. So we found the manifesto, and
the manifesto said, you know, basically, he was going to
kill his mom, dad, gecko, and a Golden Retriever and

(41:46):
then drive to his school and shoot up the school. Now,
this kid had zero red flags whatsoever. And for a
while there we got sucked into this threat assessment theme.
You know, I get it, that's fine. But the problem
with threat assessments. You know, the last ten active shooters
for sure didn't even go to the school. So how

(42:08):
does a school recognize their population when the threat's not
even there? So you have outside I'm sorry.

Speaker 9 (42:16):
It comes from outside, Like how do you watch for that?

Speaker 11 (42:19):
Right? Some do come from inside, like this kid would
have came from inside. But the last nine of ten,
And I agree with the transgender thing. If you can't
see that pattern, you're you're mentally ill. But the last
nine of ten or transgender, and the tenth one was
by whatever it is, he was confused, So I throw

(42:41):
him in that same group. But yeah, we have a
mental health crisis in this nation. The problem is so
we have that addressing that problem is going to take generations.
So in the meantime, how do we how do we
keep our kidsave so we can throw all this energy

(43:03):
into mental health And you know, you have to look
at what's within your control. What can I do?

Speaker 9 (43:10):
And and like you said, I mean it will take
generations for the mental health thing to correct as long
as everybody knows, like what to look for and what
instead of enabling mental health issues like we actually address them.
But that still doesn't protect anybody right here in them now.

Speaker 11 (43:29):
Correct, So we have to look in the moment. We
have a problem. We have these people out there, and
we have a threat out there. And I'm not saying
just the trans people or whatever. I'm saying there are
threats in our world that we don't know and don't see.
But when something happens, we all know about it. Yeah,

(43:50):
so in the meantime, what can we do? So I
wrote an article a few years back called washerans Repeat,
And this is a pattern that I write recognized after Columbine.
You have an incident that happens and you have dead children,
you have about maybe four days if you're lucky of

(44:12):
a nation grieving. Then you have about a week of
an emotional knee jerk reaction of we need to do this,
Yeah we have, Then we have, and then we have
a nine month debate over gun control, and it just washes, rinses,

(44:33):
and repeats. And if you look at Minnesota, we had
the incident, it was that day. Actually they bypassed everything,
and our governor actually wants to hold a special session
to strengthen gun laws, and they jumped right to it.
So you know, even the gun laws, there's there's four

(44:56):
guns to every person in this country, even if you
try to ban guns. I mean, I worked undercovering narcotics,
and Carl's herb me say this before I can make
three phone calls to a former informant and I can
get an ounce of cocaine. Cocaine's illegal. So it's you

(45:17):
have the mental health part that's going to take generations
to fix. And you have the gun control part that
you're never going to control. So we have to be
real here and how do we get through this period
of time until you know the mental health can be
addressed medically, and what's going on and what are we

(45:38):
putting in our children's bodies? And is something some of
these shots were giving or what's going on that's going
to take a long time. And the last I think
the one thing I didn't mind. You know, if you're
LGBTQ or your trans and you're an adult, but once
you started turning to the kids, that was a big

(46:00):
no to me. That that actually pissed me off and
ramming it down our throats was absolutely It's kind of
changed the narrative.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
I'm sorry, I said, that's where we stand too. I
was disagreeing with your with your.

Speaker 9 (46:14):
Statement there say if your adults do whatever you want
to do with your body, it's not hurting anybody else.
So I mean, live how you want to live, but
like leave the kids alone. Correct, That's what Daniel was
talking about with It's kind of the theme of the
show that like, our kids are being targeted in more
ways than one.

Speaker 11 (46:33):
So anyway, And that's kind of I look at this
from a more of a a bigger view on historically
what has manifested over the years and even to like
from Columbine to today, how we're looking at the response
from the educators and the police. It keeps evolving because

(46:57):
we haven't gotten it right yet. But the problem with
the educators and the police is they can only do
what legislators tell us we can do. And you know,
our state wanted to get rid of s ros and
they they changed laws to make it so unattractive that
you know, cops and schools don't don't follow the same rules.

(47:19):
But yet our policy and other state statues are contradicting
the new laws they passed.

Speaker 9 (47:24):
Wow, SROs like they wanted them out of the school.

Speaker 11 (47:29):
They thought they were intimidating a threat, scarying the kids.
They they thought it was a bad image for children
in schools. That's in Minnesota, and that was I think
three years ago. It was after George Floyd shortly after
and everybody hated cops.

Speaker 9 (47:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was the kickback. We love our SRO.
I mean, he looks out for our owners just like
he does everybody else. At that school and everything. So
we absolutely love him. But so it just it's so
weird to me, like the idea of eliminating someone in
the school that could protect them.

Speaker 11 (48:09):
No, And I personally believe that the majority of schools
should have an SRO. I the program. I was one
for a long time, and I oversaw the problem the program,
and there is so many benefits, benefits not only to
the school, but most importantly to the kids and the cops.
And I could, I could tell you stories of the

(48:31):
relationships I built with those kids I brought kids to
I almost be, you know, literally a surrogate dad to
a lot of kids, and or a surrogate big brother.
They can kill me stuff that I don't want to know,
but thanks for telling me. I brought kids to drug
screens because their parents were pieces of shit. Yeah, and it,

(48:51):
I mean, it's a phenomenal job. And I think to
lose that is a major step back. In fact, rather
than defunding it, we should add more money to it.

Speaker 9 (49:00):
Oh, I would agree with you on that one. Like RSRO,
Like I said, I mean, the tiny tyrant absolutely loves him.
I mean she grew up with two of his daughters
and everything. So I mean, he's a good friend and
he's just so amazing with the kids.

Speaker 11 (49:17):
Yeah, and at this point, you know, every like after
the Minneapolis Deal, people to ask me, Jason, how you feel.
I mean I get pissed. I just get literally pissed
when I see these shootings because it can be better,
but we keep washing around in this washprince repeat thing

(49:42):
and there it's a it's pathetic that this topic of
our children is politicized to the point that it is,
and we've lost common sense. This should not be a
political topic.

Speaker 9 (49:55):
It really shouldn't be. And I'm right there with you,
like you know, we have these proactive solutions or you know,
you have something going on. And how many schools did
you say it's already been implemented in like eighteen Yes,
I mean that's absolutely amazing. I've actually mentioned it before
like our like PTA meetings and stuff like if our

(50:16):
we have a very very tiny school, like if we
could somehow raise the money and everything and get it done,
Like Daniel and I are all in on getting this
implemented up here at our school.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
I've been pushing it and mentioned it myself through not
just our school but the whole at the county level. Yeah,
you know, I've been talking to them about it too.

Speaker 9 (50:34):
So, I mean, our daughter will be graduating next year
and everything. But i mean, even if God forbid something happen,
like if we could implement that, even after she's gone
and whatnot, it's still going to protect like countless other children.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
It didn't have to be our Yeah, it's this children
in general.

Speaker 9 (50:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (50:54):
Well, I think the bigger picture here is is we
as a society get into arguments and you have the
you have the left, and you have the right, and
the left wants to ban guns, and the right wants
to arm everybody. Yeah, I have and I have problems.

(51:14):
I have a lot of problems with the right side
on that topic. And it's not even worth me talking
about because it just turns into a fight and I'm
just done. I'm done arguing about it. And I also
have problems, you know, with the gun conversation. And I'm
I'm a huge two way guy. Any guns. No, I

(51:35):
signed gun permits for the last twelve years, and our
state changed used to be you just look at their
criminal history and n CIC, which is a database that
says your criminal history. N CIC would say, he gets
a gun or he doesn't. Well, they changed it to

(51:56):
the MINT. They put the Mental Health ACPENT into it,
which was good tensions. But the problem with that is
it's very subjective. So if I get somebody's background, now
I have the authority to look into their in house
contacts and if we've had a suicidal call five years ago,
I started an investigation. I got a lot of friends

(52:17):
that were PTSD, that were depressed at one point there
at rock bottom, right, they got help when they were fine,
and they fought through it. So how do you it's
not a violation of the constitution to be mentally ill, you.

Speaker 9 (52:37):
Know, technically have a mental illness. I was diagnosed with
generalized an diety disorder and I have to take medication
for it. But we're gun owners and even in my
worst panic attacks, it's never occurred to me to even
touch one of our guns.

Speaker 11 (52:53):
Right, and again, the whole mental hell thing. It's a
massive problem. But we got to be real. We cannot
solve this tomorrow.

Speaker 9 (53:03):
Yeah, yeah, Like you said, it's a generational issue, and
I think it's only going to start if we actually
start recognizing these signs and everything, and instead of enabling them,
like I'm not trying to demonize trans people here, because
for the most part, I know several I actually have

(53:24):
several friends that are transgender and everything that I would
trust with my life. Like they they're not delusional in
any way. They don't deny any kind of biological reality
about themselves. They just feel more comfortable living a certain way.
And that's completely fine, like to me, as long as
you're not denying reality. I don't really see that there's

(53:44):
a mental issue necessarily going on there. But there's so
many of them that's like, oh, well, I identify as
a woman, so I am a biological woman. Like okay, no,
now we're in denial of reality here. This is a delusion.

Speaker 11 (53:58):
Can I want to share if you guys want to
hear what I call just evil, look at Minnesota and
look at the bills that they have passed. Right now,
Minnesota is a sanctuary for children to get a sex
change operation and.

Speaker 9 (54:16):
If the parents don't not just like the top surgeries
or anything like the full full thing surgery, and if.

Speaker 11 (54:24):
The parents won't allow it, the state will step in
so the child can get it. And their motto is, well,
we need to listen to our kids. If they think
they're a you know whatever.

Speaker 9 (54:36):
Oh my god. Our daughter when she was like forethought
she was a mermaid and she got mad at me
because I wouldn't let her live in the bathtub.

Speaker 11 (54:42):
Right I was. I wanted to be a t rex.

Speaker 9 (54:45):
Yeah, but I say I was always of a lost raptor,
so I get it.

Speaker 11 (54:51):
The other thing too that our state did is they
wanted to make pedophilia a protected class. I'm sorry what
our state wanted to make pedophilia a protected class?

Speaker 9 (55:05):
Oh my god?

Speaker 11 (55:07):
So who does that stuff? I mean, unless you what
is the reason behind that that you would even write
a bill like.

Speaker 9 (55:16):
That, I would say, what I mean, I don't I
can't even wrap my brain around whatever they thought passed
for logic on that. I don't understand that.

Speaker 11 (55:29):
No, And that's that's kind of my point here is
what's really what's happened in the last ten years? You know,
why are these kids? And again, but active shooters have
gone back for centuries. But like I said, the uptick is,
you know, the last sixty years. But it makes you go,

(55:53):
what the hell is going on?

Speaker 9 (55:55):
Yeah? Yeah, I'm still I'm still stuck on the pedophilia thing.
Like I just that has floored me at this point.
I don't understand that.

Speaker 11 (56:09):
It's called map. They they want to the person. Yeah,
they try, they're trying or tried to normalize it.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (56:19):
I've heard some of them saying like, oh, it's just
another sexual orientation, Like no, this is a crime.

Speaker 11 (56:26):
Yeah you should be. If you touch a kid, I
think we should have judged d read go to your
house and pick you up.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (56:37):
I don't know. I may get like booted off X
or social media and everything if I say what I
think should be done to people like that, because I
do have ideas for stuff like that, Like I may not.
I'm obsessed with true crime and everything, and I always
say I'm not a danger, but you prove to be
a danger to like my family or my kid or
something like, I'll make national news.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
I only have one thing add to this conversation. Would
you go.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
Yep, exactly right. I don't know.

Speaker 9 (57:08):
I still say that's too quick. I have other ideas.

Speaker 11 (57:12):
No, whole my whole life. Even my chief said that
my passion has always been elderly and children. I hate
it when I see them victimized, and I actually, yeah,
it drives me insane that I will I will fight
you as hard as I can to protect children and

(57:35):
the elderly.

Speaker 9 (57:36):
Yeah, they're very, very vulnerable. And I absolutely get where
you're coming from on that. Like I'm about the same way.
I mean, when everything was going on with Biden, like
you can asked Daniel, I lost my dad to alzheimer.
So I saw what was going on with him and
how he was propped up and everything for everybody else,
and I was like, this is elder abuse, Like this
is infuriating.

Speaker 11 (57:59):
Again, a bigger picture in hole. You guys all remember
having dinner with your family every night, or you know
how we grew up where come home when the street
lights turn off and we just played and there was
I wasn't talking to people from you know, one hundred miles,
two hundred miles away, a thousand miles away. Yeah, I

(58:22):
just think it was simpler, and I think we as
a country have We can't fix it, you know, it
is what it is. But I wish we could go
back about forty years.

Speaker 9 (58:35):
Yeah, I can see that absolutely. I mean, I'm considered
an elder millennial. I'm thirty eight, but I've been officially
adopted by jen X because I grew up like that, Like,
I mean, the street lights everything. We used to just
disappear in the morning. Our parents didn't know where we
were until we came home for dinner. And I mean

(58:56):
it was always dinner right there with the family. Like
my grandmother even lived with us for a long time,
so she was always at the dinner table with us.
But that was that was a thing, like we all
got together as a family at the end of the
night and everything, and we were all there together. And
we try to instill that in our daughter too. I
mean we should we have the dinner table, dinners and everything.

(59:17):
Ask about her.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Day, and.

Speaker 9 (59:20):
She's gone a lot the last few years.

Speaker 11 (59:22):
But you want to hear something kind of funny, go
back in the nineties and the early two thousands and
look at the mug photos of pedophiles. They might have
a few bruises on them.

Speaker 9 (59:33):
Yeah, understandable. I'll be like, whoop, they've hit their head
getting in the car. But yeah, like you were saying, like,
there's no easy fix for the mental health crisis. And
I mean I've talked to Carl. I've mentioned it several

(59:53):
times on different episodes of our show that it absolutely
is a crisis in this country at this point. But
like you said, that's going to take time to correct.
So right now, we just need a way to protect
our kids and protect others and everything that is immediate
that is not going to take time that we can

(01:00:14):
do right now. And that's where your system comes in
because that is a proactive step like and I think
it's very effective overall.

Speaker 11 (01:00:28):
You know how it started and I'm sorry, Carl, you
can tell me to shut up whenever you want. This
started grassroots. We didn't start it to make money. We
literally started it because everything that was going on was
not working. You know, the train wasn't working, the response

(01:00:48):
wasn't working. Something's wrong here. Yeah, and now you know,
we have a bill called the Shield Act in Minnesota
that actually makes our system or similar system into a
building code, much like the fire suppression system. And if

(01:01:09):
you an interesting stat when I was researching stuff, was
the leading cause of death to children's schools was fire
in the nineteen hundreds, and in nineteen fifty eight, ninety
five kids died. It took ninety five kids to die
for the fire code to be implemented, which was actually
written in the early nineteen hundred, so it's sat on
a desk. For half of a century, ninety five kids die,

(01:01:35):
they implement it. Since the fire code has been implemented,
there's not been one loss of life to a child
in our school across this nation. And that what who
made the fire code? Firefighters you know, and fire marshals
and fire expos on how to keep our kids safe?
And my fear is, do we need ninety five kids

(01:01:59):
dead from an active shooter to actually do something for
the now or are we just going to keep having
this non stop debate because arguing is not fixing anything.

Speaker 9 (01:02:11):
Yeah. Amen, But yeah, you've got some videos and everything.
You can show us your system. I'd love to be
able to show everybody else's listening.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
And that's a weird you know, we've researched that me
and Laura has about it, and I find it fascinating.
I want you to show our listeners or explaining to
them exactly what the deal is because it's so common
sense based.

Speaker 9 (01:02:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
That, and it seems to be like it's effective, you know.
I think it's something that when implemented the correct way
and it gets enough ground swell that hopefully it'll be
the norm.

Speaker 9 (01:02:53):
Yeah it should be.

Speaker 11 (01:02:55):
Yeah, trust me. The political process. You brought up Mom's
Demand Action. I'm not a big fan of them. Uh,
we I've they are they're Uh, they got an agenda.

Speaker 9 (01:03:09):
They absolutely do. And like Shannon Wats, I think she's
every town like she blocked me ages ago.

Speaker 11 (01:03:17):
Yeah, they're they're they're a controlled organization.

Speaker 9 (01:03:21):
Yeah, I'm a conversation. They don't want to have a
discussion on how to actually protect children or anything. They
just want two band guns. That's all they want. Correct, Yes, yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:03:32):
They wrote a they So I'll tell you the story.
When the Shield Act was being written in and it
came out, the author of the bill, Representative Ingen asked me,
you need to get a letter from like Mom's Demand
Action or one of these national groups for support. So
I reached out to local chapter. I had two moms
come down and walked them through. They toured the school

(01:03:56):
and when we're done, they were literally almost in tears,
And I said, would do you guys think this will work?
And they said this should be everywhere, And they wrote
a letter of endorsement for the Shield Act under Mom's
de Man Action letterhead. The next day, Representative Ingen goes
up to the Democrats and gives them the letter, and

(01:04:17):
he told me, I wasn't there that told me that.
They said, how did you get this? And he came
down and then called me and goes, I just dropped
a nuclear bomb upstairs, and he goes, I don't know
what's going on here, but this is kind of fun. Well, anyway,
he gets a phone call from the national president of
Mom's to men Action literally within twenty minutes.

Speaker 9 (01:04:40):
Wow, And they.

Speaker 11 (01:04:42):
Are told that we retract our letter. And Elliott said
why and she said, we're neutral on this topic. He said, so,
let me get this straight. Mom's de man Action is
neutral on a topic about keeping kids safe. And all
she said was we retract the letter. So he had
to retract the letter. And that kind of opened me up, like, like,

(01:05:05):
what the hell is going on here? Yeah, but that
that was a big eye opener for me.

Speaker 9 (01:05:11):
Yeah, I'm I'm like you. I mean, this shouldn't be
a political thing. And Mom's demand claiming we're neutral on
this topic. They literally exist for gun control. That's like
the least neutral you can get on the topic.

Speaker 11 (01:05:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:05:26):
Again, I mean, they don't seem to want to actually
do anything proactive. They just want to ban guns.

Speaker 11 (01:05:34):
Correct, And the whole we don't want our schools to
look like a prison. And then that caught wind socially.

Speaker 9 (01:05:47):
All the time. It's ridiculous. Don't happen in prisons like
you I mean, you get the schools that have like
the metal detectors and everything. You hardly ever see anything
happen in those places because they're doing something, but it
doesn't involve banning guns. So these people don't want to

(01:06:09):
hear it.

Speaker 11 (01:06:11):
Correct. I'll share a teaser video and then we can
kind of go into Then I'll post an interview we
did a couple of years ago that kind of outlines
the system a little bit.

Speaker 15 (01:06:25):
So yeah, absolutely, you guys keep talking.

Speaker 9 (01:06:43):
I gotta figure this out, Okay, Yeah, I have no
idea how any of that kind of stuff works. So
Daniel is going to be learning about the production end
of it soon and he'll be teaching me.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
So yeah, that argument about our schools looking like a
prison or something like that, that that's always infuriated me.
I have always hated.

Speaker 9 (01:07:04):
That argument, Like, I mean, we're okay, look after Parkland happened,
like you know, of course, David Hogg coffin surfer and everything,
that's how he made his name. It was his little
sister who, right after the shooting and everything, was still
going to school there and she was she was posting about, like,
we have to have clear backpacks. They turned our school

(01:07:24):
into a prison, and I'm like, honey, y'all wanted more protection.
Y'all wanted somebody to do something. This is what that
looks like. This is what you wanted. Like, I don't
understand why you think you can keep doing the same
thing that enabled this to happen. Like, I don't understand
why you can't. You can't wrap your brain around the
fact that things are going to have to change in

(01:07:46):
order to make your school safer.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
And that's why that's why I like this three D
response thing.

Speaker 9 (01:07:51):
I say, it doesn't look like a prison.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
It should not be. This could be. This should be
political mutual, both sides should.

Speaker 9 (01:07:58):
Yeah, we should be able to join hands on this one.
And seeking you by over it as they're installing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
It, you're forgetting the biggest problem of politics. You can't
ever actually fix anything, because then what are you going
to fundraise about.

Speaker 9 (01:08:11):
Oh exactly, yeah, I'm gonna say.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
I have it on the screen. I just can't do
anything with it because it's his screen.

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
Yeah, I like how those simple plans, those ways to
shutter the doorways and the windows and all that whiteboards.
It's built into the It doesn't look like a big
iron gate. It looks like part of the school teaching curriculum.
The things that would not normally use things are hidden,

(01:10:24):
things that are out and open, blend in so it
doesn't look like a prison or a castle or whatever. Yeah,
it actually blends in and works with the aesthetic of
the school.

Speaker 9 (01:10:35):
I'll say it just it looks like a normal school basically,
which is awesome because then that way you bypass that
whole argument you're turning our schools into prisons and everything like,
because it doesn't.

Speaker 15 (01:10:49):
Look like that.

Speaker 9 (01:10:50):
You don't see it have these giant metal detectors, you know,
our bars on the windows.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
The children it blends in, they would never notice it.
People visit the school would not notice these things unless
you're pointed out. I mean, it's not like you see
some schools that you walk in they got a big
metal detector and these big like our schools got the
lobby separated by these big bulletproof glass that doors locks

(01:11:18):
ye remotely and automatically and all that, and it still
looks nice, but you do get that separation, that obvious
separation feeling that you are kind of.

Speaker 9 (01:11:33):
Yeah, if you walk in the front doors of our school,
like unless you have a member of the staff and
everything to open those interior doors, you don't have access
to the rest of the school, which is great, Like,
we don't mind it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
No, That's all I'm saying, is that as good as
that looks, you still kind of I can see the
argument of being boxed in. But with this setup, the
way that video shows it, the way those things are
integrated in it even takes up feeling the way it
looks so natural.

Speaker 11 (01:11:58):
Yeah, so I don't know if you had audio. Somebody
said they didn't, and I'm not sure how to do that.
I apologize. But the layers that in the school, if
you actually if you know what's in there, there was
about nine different layers of safety that that officer was

(01:12:19):
running through. In the vestibule alone, we have a suspect
that invocation spray that if somebody is trying to force
their way into the school, and with our if you
look at Tennessee is a great example when that boy
girl whatever it was, comes to the vestibule shoots out

(01:12:42):
the glass and just has free entry. With our system,
she does not be she's not able to do that.
And then with a push of a button from a
particular place, that button will deploy a bright yellow powder
that marks the suspect, takes away their ability to see

(01:13:05):
in so it provides concealment for the people inside.

Speaker 9 (01:13:11):
That's actually amazing because Okay, the the Parkland shooter and everything,
he was able to just kind of blend in with
the students and everything when he left, right correct, I
mean this is the like you literally marking them, like, hey,
this is the person you need to look bright.

Speaker 11 (01:13:31):
It's the same analogy of the bank Robert Dye. You know,
it's a huge clue for cops. It's also the bigger
part about it. It is, you know, it allows him not
to see his target and he's blinded with it. At
the same time he's being coated, so it blinds them.

(01:13:51):
But also it's a massive distraction for the person that
is trying to right now, act of anybody who this
many apples he ran into zero obstacles to fulfill his goal,
not one. He owned that and anybody that right now

(01:14:11):
in our world, until we stop arguing about gun control
and and and I mean not everybody knows Mittel's an issue,
but again it's a generational thing. So let's let's okay,
what can we do for that other than shout at
the top of our lungs. Something needs to be done,
So right now, what can we do? And that's where

(01:14:33):
we came, you know, like like I said, since Columbine,
it's just been an evolution of trying shit and we
have not looked at this tactically. We have not looked
at what do the kids need, what do the teachers need,
and what does the responding officers need? Because I guarantee
you you could put a gun or ten in a school.

(01:14:55):
You have to ask yourself, is the good gun going
to be where the bad gun is when the bad
gun goes off? So you still have that time period
where all the innocent are vulnerable. So what tools are
we giving them? And what we give them is cover, concealment,
and communication. In the military and law enforcement, there's a

(01:15:17):
stat I used to teach force on force if you
are involved in the shooting, and I was involved in
the shooting back in nineteen ninety eight, and I had cover.
If you're involved in the shooting and you have cover,
your chances revival is eighty five percent or higher. If
you do not have cover, your chances survival drops down
to about seventeen percent. So that's a huge stat Now

(01:15:40):
take that same stat and if a gun is presented
in a hallway, there is no cover. Sheet rock is
not cover, a door is not cover. Some brick walls
are not cover. Lockers are not cover. So the concept
of hide barricade your door with desks. Virginia Tech, they
did the run, he'd fight thing, and he locked himself

(01:16:02):
in a hallway on both sides to keep the cops
from coming in, and he had his way with that
whole hallway. Then they did run, hid fight HI did
not work, And there's a better way, And we need
to provide the innocent the resources to take their school back.

(01:16:23):
Our whole thrust is you take a target rich environment,
you make a target list as fast as you can.
And we have in one of our installs, we have
a school of two thousand kids, and we can provide
the teachers with the ability to take their school back
in sixty seconds with the police on the way, and

(01:16:44):
every child is behind cover and concealment and there's ongoing
communication within the school telling all the staff where the
suspect is. Once the first officer arrived, they're gonna officer,
I see you come through the front doors, take a left,
take a right, go up the steps. The suspects in
by room one oh four. So you've taken that search

(01:17:04):
part of it. And on average we were saving over
four minutes for the officer to locate the suspect.

Speaker 9 (01:17:12):
See that's amazing. I mean a lot can happen in
four minutes, So I mean that's phenomenal.

Speaker 11 (01:17:19):
Yeah, did you guys hear audio or not?

Speaker 9 (01:17:23):
We did not hear audio, not on our end.

Speaker 11 (01:17:26):
Can I send the video twenty two? Can you try
to do it?

Speaker 9 (01:17:30):
If you value send it to Rick for sure?

Speaker 11 (01:17:34):
I don't have.

Speaker 3 (01:17:34):
Okay, okay, Well you can send it to one of us,
and if.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
You send it to one of them, they can afford
it to me.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
It's not sure. You can send it to the one
of us. We'll get it to you. We'll afford it.

Speaker 9 (01:17:47):
Well, I can't go out of I'm doing restream on
my phone.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
So oh, send it to uh at stock King, Bump
stock Ken at Bump stock Ken and I'll send it.

Speaker 9 (01:18:03):
I mean four minutes. That's that's amazing to be able
to tell them, like the police and the responders and everything,
exactly where the shooter is at any given moment. That way,
they don't have to waste time like clearing hallways, clearing classrooms.

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
I mean, you look at some of those camps some
of these school campuses now are biggest colleges.

Speaker 9 (01:18:21):
Yeah, they're huge.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
I mean they're not just one main building. The school
wherein that our daughter goes to is pretty small, so
it's just one main building. Well yeah, it's one main building,
but there are several schools around here that's got several
buildings in their campus.

Speaker 9 (01:18:39):
My high school was like that. I mean they added
new buildings and everything because we were growing so much.
I mean, my graduating class in two thousand and five
was over three thousand kids just the graduating class. That
was just the seniors, not the entire school. So we
had multiple buildings, I mean, huge campus. So yeah, something

(01:19:00):
like that, if you're able to pinpoint this person like
kind of lock down everything so they're they're contained to
that area, I mean that's that in and of itself,
like even just by itself, would be a game changer.

Speaker 3 (01:19:17):
But yeah, you're right being able to actively say the
shooter is here.

Speaker 9 (01:19:20):
Yeah, here's how you get to them. Like like I said,
I mean, these are these things that we can actually
do now. These are right now solutions.

Speaker 11 (01:19:31):
That's what Yeah, I can give you guys. I go
back and even the Minneapolis shooting that just happened, I
just wait for the the actual reports to come out
before I even comment on it. There's a lot of
I think, assumptions and whatnot, and I want to be factual.
So I don't want to comment what happened because I

(01:19:52):
don't know yet and I like to track the suspects
of footprints.

Speaker 9 (01:19:58):
I've had a lot of people come and at me
thinking that I was like a LGBTQ plus activist, like
one of those, because I was saying, Okay, until it's
like the identity of the shooter is officially confirmed, you'
all need to stop speculating. No that I'm not going
to say anything until I like about this shooter. Until

(01:20:19):
I have an official name.

Speaker 11 (01:20:22):
That's a fact, as are the last ten whatever. But anyway,
I have done a lot of going back and putting
our system into schools where something has happened, and I
can tell you, like Uvaldi, what happened was he's at home.
I think he kills his mom or his grammar or something.

(01:20:43):
And a lot of these kids do kill somebody at home.
Some of them do it just see if they can
actually carry through with it. Right up in Red Lake,
that happened because his dad was a deputy and he
wanted his gun. But anyway, with Uvaldi, you know, he
does the home murder. He drives in, he gets in
a crash, and people come out to see if he's okay,

(01:21:05):
and he starts shooting at them. Then he walks over
to the front parking lot, you start shooting in the
school and that's when they first called nine to one.
He enters a back door two minutes later and unevetted
walks into the first classroom and basically have a barricaded
suspect with hostages. And the police response was absolutely awful, horrible.

Speaker 9 (01:21:28):
Yeah, I mean people use Uvaldis like this is why
we need gun control and everything. I'm like, well, look
at the reaction and the response from the police. I mean,
this kid had over an hour an hour and like
fifteen minutes or something barricaded in there, and they talk about, oh, well,
the AR fifteen look at they had to identify their
kids with like DNA records. Like, well, if you have

(01:21:49):
over an hour in a locked room with all these
people and you just keep pumping bullets into them, any
gun is going to destroy any kind of defining characteristic
for that person. As awful as that is to talk about,
that's just the reality here.

Speaker 11 (01:22:04):
Rrec So I go back and I put our system
in that moment. So the first he goes to the
parking lot, the rounds are fired through the front of
the school. That's the first time a gunshot is hurt
inside the school. They call nine on one, and two
minutes later he goes to the back with our system.

(01:22:26):
That first gun shot, a button's hit the button alerts
nine on one, alerts the school, and then all the
teachers have a protocol. If you hear this go off,
you do step one, two and three. Well, step one
is hit the button, Step two, hit your button, Step
two check the hallway, pull on straggler, step three, close

(01:22:48):
your door, pull up your ballistic feature. And then it
also when you hit that button, it activates twelve hundred
pounds of ballistic pressure on your door. So you have
the windows are fortified, the door is sealed with twelve
hundred pounds of magnetic pressure, and you have a ballistic
feature and ballistic wall that the kids are safe.

Speaker 9 (01:23:08):
That's amazing, And that.

Speaker 11 (01:23:10):
Takes about the whole school less than a minute. It's
that quick. So if he comes through the back door,
by the time he walks through that back door, that
first door he goes to, the door is secured, the
kids are behind cover, ballistic protection, they're concealed in the
admin office. They're now dispatching to the entire school. He's

(01:23:35):
walking in through the back door. Missus Anderson, he's at
your door, and it would have been pull pull. He
could have tried to shoot through the walls. He could
have done whatever he wanted, and all those kids are safe.
So rather than seventeen eighteens or trying to how many
deaths there were, I don't believe there's one child dead

(01:23:56):
in that scenario. But again, they had the response they
needed to make a target rich environment target less as
fast as you can.

Speaker 9 (01:24:07):
Yeah, I mean that's the goal is reduced as many
deaths as possible, child, staff, whatever, everybody is protected at
this point, like best case scenario and everything, if everything,
if everybody does what they're supposed to do, and it's
such an easy system unless it's just negligent or something like.

(01:24:30):
I don't see it. I don't see how it could fail.
I mean, human error is always an issue, but I
mean it seems pretty fool proof.

Speaker 11 (01:24:43):
But relying on humans isn't always the answer, and same
with relying on technology isn't always the answer. That's why
I'm I've experienced Murphy's law. It does happen, and I
don't want my life, of my children or other children

(01:25:05):
relying on something that's controlled by electricity or a battery.
I want my kids to have a safe place.

Speaker 9 (01:25:14):
Yeah, I mean that's the goal of any parent. I mean,
with everything going on in the world today, we all
just want our kids safe. I mean, that's that's the
goal I think of any good parent anyway. I mean
the nature of my show, I know of parents that
we're not good parents and really didn't care or they

(01:25:35):
killed their own children or something. But for good parents,
for normal parents, like, we just want our kids to
be safe, especially when we send them off in the
care of somebody else for an entire day.

Speaker 11 (01:25:49):
Right I Let I'm sorry Rick to play this, but
I want I want you to notice when he walks
in again, you're gonna there's a lot of unseen layers
up front. He's going to walk in and there's a
desk there. That desk is actually a ballistic desk. We're
providing the same three c's for the people who allow

(01:26:11):
people in and out of their building. So it's a
I won't go into everything, but this video kind of
sums it up. There's a lot not mentioned in here.
It's more complex than just this, but this is a
good overview.

Speaker 9 (01:26:26):
School should be a safe place.

Speaker 16 (01:26:28):
That statement seems like a no brainer, right, But the
fact is, school districts have to be proactive about it.
So you're going to need to sign in and here's
the past, maybe even try a new approach.

Speaker 17 (01:26:39):
We are first and foremost focused on how do we
have a layered approach to safety and security.

Speaker 16 (01:26:46):
Lakeville Area Schools has made this a priority, from Superintendent
Michael Bauman, to the school board to the public. In
twenty nineteen, they passed a levy and bond referendum that
helped add an additional school resource officer to the middle schools.
They set up an anonymous reporting system and added a
psychologist to handle threat assessments.

Speaker 17 (01:27:04):
We know that the kids that have been active shooters
have had struggles and at some point, you know, maybe
if someone would have intervened in a different way, maybe
we could have headed that off. And I do feel
in our district that we've had numerous situations over the
last few years that we have made an impact on kids.

Speaker 16 (01:27:21):
Reality is, not all threats get caught in time. So
Lakeville went one step.

Speaker 11 (01:27:26):
Further when we came up with the system. We wanted
to answer all those.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):
What if questions.

Speaker 16 (01:27:31):
They partnered with Minnesota based three D Response Systems.

Speaker 11 (01:27:34):
We understand that the prevention is the most important piece,
and to develop those relationships with the people in your
building is the most important thing you can do. Now,
if one SIPs through the cracks, which in a population
of like the school of fifteen hundred kids, but it's
very possible, then our system comes into play to keep
as many people safe as we possibly can.

Speaker 16 (01:27:53):
Three D Response Systems is a multi layer design to
get the police there faster and provide tools for the
people in side to survive. The company was started by police, firefighters, educators,
and parents. It takes the active shooter training run hide, fight,
and adds three things they say makes it more effective. Cover, concealment,
and communication.

Speaker 11 (01:28:14):
Cover is something that's going to protect you from like
a bullet. Concealment is something that I can't see you.
Communication is having constant, active communication to keep you in
the knowing.

Speaker 16 (01:28:26):
Almost all of it is out of sight, so you
don't lose the feeling of a teaching space. The only
visible signs are the police buttons on the wall in
every room in every building.

Speaker 11 (01:28:37):
You simply push a button and when you push that button,
you've sent a text message to dispatch that says police
needed a room one o two Lake Old North High School,
and each room when they hit their button, a new
text message will be sent. It also activates twelve hundred
pounds of magnetic pressure on your door, so can get
a nice tight seal and you're not going to get
through that door. And then lastly, it sets off the

(01:28:58):
alert system both inside outside the school.

Speaker 16 (01:29:00):
Hidden ballistic panels can be pulled out of the walls
if needed, and cameras help the officers responding get to
where the threat is faster.

Speaker 11 (01:29:08):
That's part of the communication piece that comes and so
the teachers know exactly where the intruder is and the
first officer arrives, they can talk to the officer and
say he's on the third floor.

Speaker 16 (01:29:16):
By three or two, Lakeville has installed the system in
both high schools and is working its way through every
school in the district. A system they hope they never
have to use, but having it is peace of mind,
because just hoping it never happens isn't a solution.

Speaker 11 (01:29:30):
We're fully aware that you can't stop the first one.
I mean it's a reactive situation, but you can stop
the next five.

Speaker 18 (01:29:38):
Rina Sargonopolis, Caro loven News Well, Lakeville is the first
public school district in the country to use this Minnesota base.

Speaker 3 (01:29:51):
Yeah, that one had did sound That was a good yeah,
good video right.

Speaker 9 (01:29:55):
There, especially, I mean it walked through everything, and I
know I keep saying it, but it is. It's amazing.
I mean, as a parent would be thrilled if our
school has something like this.

Speaker 11 (01:30:09):
Yeah, I said, it goes deeper than that. One example
was keyless entry. During my studies, there's been a lot
of teachers that couldn't close their door, and because of
fire code and building codes, at least in my state,
all classroom doors need to be locked from the outside,
you can't lock it from the inside. Well, a lot

(01:30:34):
of teachers, when you're under that much stress, and this
kind of goes into the whole gun conversation and the shooting.
I was in, But when you're under that much stress,
a lot of teachers cannot get that key in the hole.
It happened in Columbine specifically, where Harrison Cleeland had actually

(01:30:55):
made They were in and she kept dropping her keys.
She was so nervous. She was just shaken right, and
so no keys. With our system, it's all big muscle memory.
It's keep it simple, stupid. Part of the reason that
the fire code has been so successful is the response
that teachers have to do. It's a point A to

(01:31:17):
point B. That's it. The problem with run hyde fight.
It's a multiple choice question with no facts to make
the best decision you can. And the biggest anxiety when
I was teaching teachers on response they had was what
do I decide? How do I know? And how do

(01:31:38):
we know? It's the cops outside and all these questions
are minds just spinning, and we try to just slow
this whole thing down and make it as simple as
we can with effective resources for them to deploy without
even knowing they're deploying it, because it's a unbelievable for

(01:31:59):
a nature, an educator, even a cop human being in general.
Your stress level is so high, you have no idea
how you are going to physically or psychologically respond to
that stress. So we got to make it. Just slow
it down. You do this, That's it, I say.

Speaker 9 (01:32:21):
Ask somebody with an anxiety disorder and everything. Slowing things down,
that's always effective. I mean for me just in general
situations when my anxiety gets up, just take a breath,
slow things down, Like let's walk through this. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:32:37):
Well, like I'm sure Jason here will agree. Like, there's
men and women people that's being taught how to manage
that stress, to do these functions to be able to
function efficiently in those stress situations. And they go through
intense training over years, yeah, and refreshing courses. And you

(01:32:58):
put somebody who's a teacher, no disrespect to them obviously,
who don't have time to do that level of intense
training to make it become muscle memory, to be calm,
to work your keys, and to make those correct life
and death literal decisions on the spotlight that under that
stress level. It's you're creating a fell point by expecting that.

(01:33:23):
And what his system is doing, like you said, keep
it simple, stupid, is he's removing a lot of that
stress point off of them so that all they have
to do is at A to B. They don't have
to rely on they can that type of muscle memory
is something that's much easier done than having all these
extra steps and these decisions made.

Speaker 9 (01:33:45):
They having that police button in every room and everything.
You just get to that button.

Speaker 11 (01:33:48):
And one of the questions I get too is what
are you doing like open spaces, so like a gymnasium
or cafeteria. We've addressed that as well. So we also
have lanyards, and those lanyards will actually activate the system
and call nine to one. It will not lock any
doors because we don't want one button to lock all
the doors because missus Anderson in her classroom might not

(01:34:11):
be ready to be locked down. So we don't want
to keep kids out. So every teacher is responsible for
their kid. But if you're in a cafeteria setting and
you have a very target rich environment, we will tactically
look at the space and we will find escape or
lockdown places that they can go to, but they can

(01:34:32):
activate the system so the entire rest of the building
knows something's going on remotely, so they don't have to
run to a police button.

Speaker 9 (01:34:41):
Okay, yeah, that's that's smart. I didn't think about like
the gyms or the cafeteria or what about something like
maybe because I mean we do the football games every
weekend and whatnot. At the outdoor stadium, that's got to
be much much more difficult to deal with.

Speaker 11 (01:35:00):
Yeah, and you kind of treat it like a look
at a professional sport. I mean, you have to go through,
you're scanned when you come in. There's the security is
heightened and it's controlled on who's coming in here. So
football games with I mean up here, we'll have seven
eight nine cops, ten reserve officers, and a bunch of

(01:35:25):
school people with security jackets on. And when they come in,
you know up here, they get swiped down with a
metal detector and then they come in. So you you
give the appearance of security, even though it's easily overcomable.
But if you give that appearance of police presence, it

(01:35:47):
does make people think, Yes, but open spaces are so
hard and secure.

Speaker 9 (01:35:52):
Yeah, I mean that's kind of one thing that I've
always worried about is the open space is like Friday
nights and everything is well, honey, school and everything, but
we do have police presence up there.

Speaker 3 (01:36:03):
Yeah, even as small as our school is, we have
a minimum of three and there's well, let's see, there's
three that's in full uniform and then there's one or
two that's floats. So I mean we've got at least
anywhere from three to five on any given football night,
and there's only three points of entry. Yeah, and one
of those is completely controlled by the school itself for

(01:36:26):
the football teams public entries.

Speaker 11 (01:36:29):
So you ever heard the analogy I've ever seen a
bank being robbing on the squad curse park in the
parking lot.

Speaker 3 (01:36:34):
Right, Yeah, exactly like I was saying earlier. You know,
they're going to look for no reason for the least
amount of resistance to no resistance, just like you're just
like the predator when it's looking for it's praise, is
going to go for that young or that not one
that can fight back.

Speaker 9 (01:36:51):
Yeah, they won They want the easiest target possible, Like
they're they're trying to make a name for themselves for
trying to rack up a body count like Carl had
mentioned to you. So yeah, I mean, if they see
police out there and everything and they're like, oh, there's
quite a few people that can they can prevent me

(01:37:11):
from doing what I'm wanting to do, They're going to
eventually look for another target.

Speaker 11 (01:37:18):
There's also I wanted to add to Carl's comment, and
Carl's awesome, there's also another there's also another type of shooter.
It's it's a revenge shooter. And there's been a few
of those as well. You know, a rap a ho Colorado. Uh,
this kid got kicked off the debate team and he

(01:37:39):
got pissed off about it, and he came to school
the next day, I think with a shotgun. But on
his hand he had written Latin the die has been cast,
and he had I think four room manewals numerals written
on his hand, and those numbers were the locations of
his targets. So there is the motive for a lot

(01:37:59):
of the really isn't known until afterwards, so you can't
pigeonhole it into why until unfortunately afterwards, right.

Speaker 9 (01:38:12):
And I always say, well, I mean that's one of
my big things on the show, Like Daniel's more the
procedural type and everything I go, the more psychological we're out.
But motive, again, like you said, you don't know that
until after the dust settles. Basically, motive is very important

(01:38:36):
to understanding why people do the things that they do.
But again, you don't ever know that until after it
after it's happened.

Speaker 11 (01:38:47):
Yeah, the one thing I've seen is we as a society,
we keep trying to fix what just happened. And I'll
give you some clear cut examples. After Columbine because of
Harris and Cleebolt's plan to have everybody in the gym,
and they wanted you know, this mass chaos and everybody

(01:39:08):
run out of the gym from the explosions, and they
were set up to you know, take them out as
are running out. So lockdown emerged, and then you fast forward.
I think twenty eleven is when run hed Fight was born.
Twenty twelve, Sandy Hook happened, and you know, it's uh,
there's too many dead. But then we stuck with run
hed fight and we're still there. I still see it

(01:39:30):
promoted a run height fight. If it was actually effected,
we would see a massive decline in children being hurt.
And we're just not seeing it run head fight doesn't work.
I refuse to teach it. The building doesn't support the concept,
and we single point entry. You know, when you've alldappened,

(01:39:52):
we the push was single point entry. We keep trying
to fix what just happened. I guarantee you you know,
because Minneapolis he shot through a window. We're going to
be looking at windows security of some sort, and we
need to look at the building as a whole. And
we're not doing that because you can't predict where it's
going to happen. So we need to stop looking at

(01:40:13):
this just happened. Let's fick this, let's fix the whole building.

Speaker 3 (01:40:18):
Yeah, that's the thing human nature is. We're very reactionary
instead of being proactive about it. Well, we tend to
just look behind us and think, well, we need to
fix just that that just happened, instead of a bigger
picture of yes, we need to address this, but we
also need to look at all these other points that

(01:40:41):
you look at this big picture, add up all these
issues that we have seen in the past, understand where
they failed, and these fail points are predict that will
help us predict where our future ones are. And we
need to take this as an all encompassing thing. Don't
just react to the situation, be proactive. Un Let's get
after it. And that's why I like about three day

(01:41:02):
response is that it's it's very much a full I
guess a full book if you wanted to call that way.
Addresses everything as basically can and I think extremely effectively too.

Speaker 11 (01:41:17):
I'll give you. I did an interview the day after
Minneapolis happened, and the interviewer asked he was very passionate
about it, and he was. He was worked up and
it was emotions coming out of him, and I loved it.
He wants to keep kids safe. I love that. He
asked me a question and I didn't answer. What I

(01:41:37):
said was I appreciate your passion. I really do. Did
you feel the same way July first, last summer? And
he said, what happened? Unjul life first? I said nothing?
Why do we Why do we keep waiting for something
to happen, for this passion to come out? Do we
need an active shoot in our country once a week

(01:41:59):
for us as parents to say, enough's enough, let's do something.

Speaker 3 (01:42:04):
But years so exactly right. It's like I was saying,
it's it's reactionary. People as a whole rely or they
run off of emotion, and that's part of why people
are so reactionary about things because that emotional response. I'm
a very logical person. I think Jason here is as well.

(01:42:27):
So I am just intrigued by this system they've got
in place because I see it's potential. I understand that
it can work if implemented, and that is a much
much better plan then what else is out there as
far as reacting to the situation or just or or
like the way people is gonna throw the baby out

(01:42:50):
with the bath water. You know that old expression where
it's like you can't just fix this and focus on
this and then just throw stuff at it until it
eventually something works. It's not going to work. This is
well planned out, it's logical, it made sense, and it's
something that's doable. I think, what now, I see that

(01:43:13):
on those videos that is pretty pretty much very built
into the building, not very very much part of schools.
Is that something that can be that needs to be
more of a new construction type thing or can it
be retrofitted to existing buildings?

Speaker 11 (01:43:32):
What you saw there was an existing building that was
a retrofit, and we yeah, we do both. We've done both.
The new buildings look really clean.

Speaker 19 (01:43:41):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (01:43:41):
The old buildings, you know, we will actually you know,
pull out cupboards and stuff and take the sheet rock
off and put ballistic protection in certain areas. It's not
doing the whole school. It's again, we walk these schools
and we look at every inch of that building from
a tactical point of view, and we what if it
to death? And this is swat guys and myself military firefighters.

(01:44:08):
I mean it. We put together a team of people
from the mindset that we need. I don't want an
architect there. I don't want to teacher, you know, a superintendent, theorist.
I want a tactical mindset to look at the space.
Number one, how do we keep everybody safe right here?
And number two, how do we hide it.

Speaker 12 (01:44:32):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:44:32):
Yeah? Hiding it into the system. Like I said, it's
not only is it appealing to the naysayers, but it's
also should be to this. Yeah. But like the children,
they would be clueless about these things that's been added,
so they wouldn't be any kind of anxiety there with them.
Shouldn't be unless God.

Speaker 9 (01:44:50):
Did something happens, you have to implement it.

Speaker 3 (01:44:53):
But then on The next thing, when and if someone
was nefarious supposed to come into the school armed or
whatever with the intention to shoot up, they wouldn't know
what to look for either, because they wouldn't know how
to avoid it because it wouldn't be something blair that
they wouldn't be a big arm sign. It goes like, oh,
look we're about to.

Speaker 9 (01:45:14):
They grew up with this system being in place, and
so you know, if I'm going to target my own
school and everything after I've graduated or something, I know
it's there. But that means he's probably not likely to
choose that target.

Speaker 3 (01:45:26):
Too well, a lot harder. A different scenario though, but
like if a shooter was coming to a school that's
set up with a system, it wouldn't be an obvious
set up. It would be something that's.

Speaker 9 (01:45:39):
Like you said, there's no bars on the windows, there's
no metal detectors.

Speaker 3 (01:45:43):
Really, they wouldn't know where to avoid because it all
blends in so well.

Speaker 11 (01:45:48):
Yeah. The other thing too is if you look at
what's been implemented in the last few years and people
just dive into technology, and they saw Texas and Florida
just went to drones, and I looked at that going
and they're going to fire pepper balls and I s well,

(01:46:08):
bird shot would end that pretty quick and a gas mask.
So but you look at metal detectors and there's a
big kick for metal detectors. Those are very easily bypassed
in a school setting. It's not an airport, whereas there's
a choke point. You know, you could bypath that so easily.

(01:46:32):
And all these shot detection, facial recognition, gun detection, you know,
people like the technology. The problem with all those is
you might be able to stop the gun maybe, but
you're never going to stop the bullet. And all it
is in an alert system. And back in the day cameras,

(01:46:55):
security cameras, and I say that in quotes cameras are
great to solve with that they're not going to stop
a bullet. And we keep throwing ship at what is
forced in our face that this is security. And then
here's a challenge. Parents, go to your school board and

(01:47:15):
say what are you doing for security? I guarantee you
they're going to say, we have visitor management, we have
security cameras, we got window film here and there. Your
your kids safety is our number one priority. And it's
I would say, okay, can anything. You just told me
stop a bullet. Mm hmm. There's there's a big difference

(01:47:36):
between an alert system and a safety system.

Speaker 9 (01:47:40):
Oh yeah, well, okay, look at what R. S R
O Has talked to me and you about, like how
often he gets on to some of the older kids
and everything because all these side doors and everything they
just open up for anybody. Yeah, so he's very very
annoyed with out because like his big thing, that's his job,

(01:48:02):
is to keep these kids safe. So he gets so
annoyed with them and even some of the teachers and
everything when they do the same thing. Because I mean
there's multiple doors going into the school, going in and
out right, and obviously our very tiny school, we don't
have the ability to like there's there's no system in

(01:48:23):
place where they can look in the office and say, okay,
well the door behind the cafeteria, in the back of
the cafeteria that just opened up.

Speaker 3 (01:48:30):
Yeah, there's no kind and there's none of that. Of course,
like Jason was saying, we obviously there are the camera systems.
They do have the film on the windows and that
little entry area that is ballistic glass there. That's really
yet other than the SROs. Yeah, and like I said, Luckily,
we have some really good SROs at that school. Yeah,

(01:48:52):
and it's a smaller campus so it's it's easier contained.

Speaker 9 (01:48:56):
So they never even like even the SRO he's never
giving me crap because I carry Yeah, no, like they
know it too, And there's several of the staff that
also carry, Like we just kind of overlook that.

Speaker 3 (01:49:09):
Yeah, so we're not We're definitely not going to mention
what school is. I don't nobody to get in trouble.

Speaker 11 (01:49:15):
I'll say I was a school cop and my first
day I came off of working dog shift, so I
was kind of disgruntled and stuff. I stand at the principal,
I'm looking over to see of the kids, and everybody's
so nice to me. And I'm walking by the princepe
I go, why in the hell is everybody so nice?
Because I'm used to being called every name in the

(01:49:36):
book and fighting with people, and all of a sudden,
I'm been thrown into school Like everybody's so nice here?
What is wrong with you?

Speaker 15 (01:49:41):
Folks?

Speaker 11 (01:49:42):
Like this culture? Shock? Yeah, but I grew into it
and I loved that job. The one thing that so
I had two thousand kids that it was a it
was a good size high school. I was fully aware
that I could be presenting to a class, I could

(01:50:03):
be taking a report, I could be in the middle
of whatever it is I'm doing, and there could be
one hundred and fifteen shots on the other side of
the building that I would never hear. Yeah, I'm still
responding to an incident. So it's the armed portion of this.

(01:50:27):
You have to if you want to arm them, arm them.
I don't care. It's a conversation that I just don't
want to waste my time with. I'm looking at the children,
and we need to look at the stakeholders here, which
are the kids, and we need to give them the
tools because we cannot predict where it's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (01:50:49):
Right, And I think at the end of the day,
that should be what the conversation should be about. Yeah,
because when you do bring up guns in the Second Amendment,
armored teachers or not, it's always because it's so divided,
it's always gonna end up in an argument. Your system
negates that because it matches, it feels all the the

(01:51:13):
gaps there. Yeah, I mean it does. It should It
should be accepted across political lines because it is about
a I won't want to say word passive because it's
not really passive. But it's a uh a safety measure
that can be implemented in a way that should satisfy

(01:51:34):
both sides because it is about keeping the kids safe.

Speaker 9 (01:51:37):
It's not any kind of Yeah, it's common sense that
even the left would be like, Okay, you know this
system works, like, this is proactive. This is they always
talk about, like, you know, your thoughts and prayers are
worthless without action. This is an action we can take.

Speaker 3 (01:51:54):
And on the right side it it's an action. No,
it's not necessarily arming the teachers, but it's still an
action that will be that will work. Yeah, it is
a positive step forward that can be implemented.

Speaker 11 (01:52:06):
Now, that's what I'm going to go back and say.
When we started this, there was zero It wasn't there
was zero politics. It was just a tactical, common sense
approach on what works, what doesn't work, let's make it right.
And you know, I spent four and a half five

(01:52:28):
years on research and development arguing with fire marshals and
if you look at the fire code, what what what
does it do? And this is the biggest kind of
thing that I think people need to grasp once the
fire code was implemented. What it does is it gets
the fire department there faster. It provides the tools for

(01:52:48):
the people in that building where the fire is at.
It's kind of the it's it's the same thing. What
what we do is it gets the ops there faster.
It provides the tools for the innocent where the active
shooters at. And it's it's kind of the blueprint's been there.

(01:53:09):
It's multi layered, both of them comprehensive. We have defined
every other definition of safety, whether it's car safety, fire safety,
plane safety, fish icing safety. I mean, there's a definition
for every single incident other than this, and that is ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:53:30):
I agreed.

Speaker 9 (01:53:32):
I mean, this is our children we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:53:34):
You know. I think, like I said, I think this
should just like to fire code, this should become a standard.

Speaker 12 (01:53:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:53:41):
Absolutely. I mean new construction especially, this should be just
part of the building code, Like we need to install
this this type of stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:53:50):
Because in the perfect world, the mental health issue side
of just the evil side of it, witness this and
they wouldn't be a school shooting, right, But that's not
how that's not the reality that the real world is, right.

Speaker 9 (01:54:02):
Man, We live in a flawed and fallen.

Speaker 3 (01:54:04):
World and until the good Lord comes back, is going
to be that way. Just that's the truth of it.
He is playing. This three D response is something that
can be done today at a relatively affordable colls. When
you look.

Speaker 9 (01:54:19):
At and I would say this, like taxpayers should be
able to agree that, okay, this is worth our taxes.
This is something that we should agree on that. Okay,
I can. I would agree that my tax dollars should
go to something like this.

Speaker 3 (01:54:34):
First I could hear my tax money, I do.

Speaker 11 (01:54:37):
You're going to hear something shocking?

Speaker 3 (01:54:40):
What's that?

Speaker 11 (01:54:41):
So the referendum for the schools, the public school was
sixteen million dollars. That's sixteen schools. There's at the time
probably sixty two thousand people. Their taxes went up a
dollar forty five a month.

Speaker 9 (01:54:59):
Per that's not bad.

Speaker 11 (01:55:04):
So when your school board tells you we can't afford it, well,
you didn't ask us. If you know, let the threshold
for liability you've always up to twenty three billion dollars
in lawsuits or they were. The threshold for liability is
did you do everything you could to print lots of
life their injury? Well, if you're a school board member

(01:55:27):
or superintendent. Everything you can do is going out and
ask your citizens in your community or your district do
you want this? But we're spoon fed what we vote on. Right,
So for five quarters a month, we outfitted sixteen schools

(01:55:49):
that houses twelve thousand kids with probably the safest district
in nation.

Speaker 9 (01:55:56):
That's so cool.

Speaker 15 (01:55:57):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:55:58):
Right.

Speaker 9 (01:55:58):
We need to see if he'll like come down to
Alabama and talk to some of these people down here.

Speaker 3 (01:56:04):
Yeah, I think Alabama is pretty much the that's armed
the teacher's crowd. They don't that's kind of the way
we want to go.

Speaker 9 (01:56:11):
So I always tell people like, I don't want to
arm the teachers, but I think that if like they're
not a prohibited person and they want to carry, and
like they're safe about it, and they have a way
to conceal it from their students, so the students don't
even know they have it, I wouldn't.

Speaker 11 (01:56:26):
I would ask them. I would ask them, are they
going to give all the teachers qualified amunity?

Speaker 9 (01:56:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:56:32):
Well, like I was saying earlier, even he was mentioned
with the keys and stuff people in that panic situation, Yeah,
can't handle their keys. I don't want to trust, say.

Speaker 9 (01:56:40):
Why would we trust them? Like, I don't even know
how i'd react in a situation like that. I mean,
I'm prepared to react.

Speaker 3 (01:56:46):
I mean, I don't want to trust the history teacher
that's got one good ear and to handle the.

Speaker 9 (01:56:53):
With a bunch of panic students situation.

Speaker 3 (01:56:56):
I don't a lot the idea. Sure, I'm not opposed to,
but there's.

Speaker 9 (01:56:59):
A lot they can go wrong, right, So yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:57:02):
This system takes that out. I'm pro I'm all in
on this system.

Speaker 9 (01:57:07):
Yeah. So he had me convinced, like ages ago on
this one. So that's why I really wanted to have
him on the show so other people I could convince
them too.

Speaker 11 (01:57:20):
So I walked an army vet through it a couple
of weeks ago, and I had a couple of tours
coming up with a bunch of legislators because Walls wants
to do the special session on guns. Anyway, the vet
I walked through, and he was an explosive guy, and
everything he was asking was about explosives, And to be

(01:57:44):
honest with you, I have a video that I'll share
it and you guys can do it. But we blew
the shit out of our doors with our swat team
and our walls and I'll find that video Rick and
you can share it. But that's that's the link we
went through. We're walking out and he he go, I go,

(01:58:06):
what do you think? And he literally teared up. Well,
come to find out his daughter was involved in his
shooting in Colorado and he didn't tell me which one,
but he said, uh, he was just emotional that why

(01:58:26):
isn't this everywhere? Why is our country going the way
it is? And you know, I can't tell you the
the invisible walls that we have run into trying to
get this out there. It's almost like they don't want it,
and we just keep getting pushed back and pushback. So

(01:58:47):
hopefully next year the Shield Act, which again just makes
it building code, passes so I can go to a
superintendent rather than saying we don't need this and it's
not going to happen here. Well, sorry, it's a law
jack ass. Yeah, you guys can't do the right thing,
so we're forcing it down your throat.

Speaker 9 (01:59:08):
Now, Yeah, i'd be okay. I mean, I think it
was Rick that mentioned earlier, because you know, you asked,
I don't know why people, why all these invisible roadblocks
that go up and everything. Why people don't want this.
I actually am convinced at this point most of the
left wants more children to die because that's their emotional
cudgel to push forward all these unconstitutional gun control things,

(01:59:32):
like they need these things to continue happening.

Speaker 3 (01:59:36):
It's that saying about don't let any tragedy go to waste,
you know, Yeah, I mean, but it's like I said,
it's a politic left or right. It's a political it's
so political sized now that they use it as a
tool for votes and for pressure to get what they
want and make all these promises and then they know

(01:59:59):
they actually go go through with them, they.

Speaker 9 (02:00:03):
Lose that campaign track that they.

Speaker 3 (02:00:06):
Can use, and that's what's frustrating. Like the Shield Act here, Uh,
I would sign that in a second if I was
on that list, you know, a congressman or whatever. Yeah,
I would absolutely push for this because when it comes
to the safety of our most precious ones, it should
not be a left or right or in the It

(02:00:27):
should be for a human being type.

Speaker 9 (02:00:31):
These children are not your political bludgeon to use, like
their lives are not up for your campaign trail. I'm sorry,
Like we need to we need to knit that in
the buttone, I don't know necessarily that we have anything else.

(02:00:52):
Otherwise we can keep going in circles. But Jason, if
you've got that other video you mentioned, like we can
do that.

Speaker 1 (02:00:59):
It just came in.

Speaker 9 (02:01:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:01:01):
I was going to say this too that I just
thought about it. If people were going into animal shelters
and shooting the dogs and the cats, yeah, they would
have Jason's system and every dog pound and every kennel
across America.

Speaker 9 (02:01:17):
I mean that's so ridiculous too. But we know that's true. Yeah,
we know they would absolutely be like, oh, we got
to protect them. They're they're vulnerable, they're innocent. Okay, what
about our kids?

Speaker 3 (02:01:27):
They only each side only want seems to want to
protect the kids in their own way and what their
own ideal lead them to. And I mean it's a political.

Speaker 1 (02:01:38):
Like this is anything new though, I mean, look at
everybody that's complaining about all the stuff that goes into
the stuff we feed our dogs and then we shove
twinking Come on.

Speaker 3 (02:01:46):
Oh, it's across the board. It's not just this. Yeah, everything,
God almighty, everything has to be politicized now.

Speaker 9 (02:01:53):
Well that like, okay, y'all have seen me like, I
get these vegans coming after me on abortion, Like, oh,
but you eat animals like you would rather you want
to protect the animals, but you think it's okay to
kill the children Like I don't. I genuinely don't understand
all of these different types of people that are doing this.

Speaker 1 (02:02:12):
Well, except for cows. They hold them in less.

Speaker 11 (02:02:14):
Regard than the children.

Speaker 1 (02:02:16):
Yeah, you know, all right, I've got the video already whenever.

Speaker 11 (02:02:19):
You guys are Yeah, can I set it up real quick? Okay?
So Safe WITHO Designs is a is our business partner.
Great guys. Uh, we're kind of hand in hand. But
every not every door, but a lot of doors we
put in you know, next to I see a lot
of people like you protect the window, but then you

(02:02:41):
have sheet rot right, it's to the window, Like you're
not doing anything here, folks, you know, But we make
the command center in the admin office and that is
a bunker and it doesn't look like a bunker. But
what you're going to see here is the ballistic doors
that we install in schools that can withstand an explosive breach.

(02:03:03):
So here you go.

Speaker 20 (02:03:17):
One.

Speaker 21 (02:03:35):
So what's gonna a big store from Mars and exquire
Hoos Journey three hundred and fifty grains of explosives.

Speaker 3 (02:04:02):
This is the I don't want anybody in my house door,
are you?

Speaker 5 (02:04:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (02:04:08):
Wolf one?

Speaker 6 (02:04:27):
This one, based on what happened the first one, You're
never gonna hurt the door.

Speaker 9 (02:04:32):
Those screws off.

Speaker 14 (02:04:33):
I was gonna say, what I'm sitting now, that would awesome,

(02:05:03):
all right?

Speaker 1 (02:05:03):
Can I just say I'm disappointed that not once did
I hear anybody yell fire in the hole.

Speaker 3 (02:05:10):
I was gonna say, that looks like a really fun day.

Speaker 11 (02:05:13):
Honestly, we've had the reason that I share that is
because we every single layer we put in we vet
it like that. We we don't put anything in here
that we have not tried to overcome with whatever weapon
you can use.

Speaker 3 (02:05:32):
It looked like y'all was testing far beyond what most
normal shooters I have.

Speaker 11 (02:05:39):
So well, you never know, you know, see four pipe bomb.

Speaker 9 (02:05:44):
Whatever, I mean, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (02:05:48):
Prepare for the absolute worst case scenario and then go
beyond that.

Speaker 11 (02:05:52):
So oh yes, I mean, like I said, it's a
tactical design. It's it's not a flowery concept. It's tactical.

Speaker 9 (02:06:02):
That's amazing, absolutely impressive.

Speaker 3 (02:06:05):
Yeah, and like you said, it's uh, and your design
is not just a door. You actually go around the
door as well, so.

Speaker 11 (02:06:15):
That we basically take a classroom and we make it
a safe room. And by safe, I mean you can't
see it. Like I said, those doors, nobody would know
you know, the protection it provides, nor would you know
the walls are protected, nor would you know there's twelve
hundred pounds to make my pressure on, you know, and

(02:06:37):
even the card readers they don't know what's all behind that.
And even the card readers are tactical. You know, you
can shoot the card reader out. Well, guess what, the
guts aren't there. The ban's not going to release. And
again it's it's very involved, and I don't want to
give away everything, but it is the most tactical response
you can imagine to keep our kids safe exactly.

Speaker 3 (02:06:59):
And that's what And again I wanted to point that out,
like if someone was listening to this, I didn't have
an opportunity to see that video. The doors and the
things that he's talking about. You can't look at them
and tell there's something special about.

Speaker 9 (02:07:11):
No, they just look like doors and normal walls.

Speaker 3 (02:07:15):
And that's what's so great about is that a shooter
or someone even in this case someone with a pop bomb.
They wouldn't know the weak points because it all looks
the same. Yeah, nothing stands out.

Speaker 11 (02:07:30):
Yeah, that's big goal of ours is. The biggest goal
of ours is not to learn, not to lose the
learning environment. Feel m and our biggest fight is with
the architects because they want to make a school look pretty. Well.
The problem with pretty is you're putting their kids at risk.
And you know, the best schools we installed in were

(02:07:51):
the traditional schools or it's classroom. This open concept and
too much glass is so frustrating to me that they're
looking for the next plaque they can put on the
wall for best design school. I want to see the
I want to see the safest school. Yeah, because in
my opinion, everything stops and starts with a safe learning environment,

(02:08:14):
not a pretty learning environment exactly.

Speaker 9 (02:08:17):
Yeah. I say, if we're going to send our kids
off all day long with other people, like, I want
my child to be as safe as humanly possible in
that scenario because like we can't be there to keep
her safe or anything. The other parents are not necessarily
there either, unless you know they're subs or they're doing
something at the school. I don't think I ever told

(02:08:40):
Jason about the time we went on the lockdown when
the tiny tyrant was in kindergarten. But with long story short, like,
we ended up in the library closet because I was
working the book fair and our daughter's class happened to
be in there at the time, and there were these
armed robbers who had been basically terrorized in that community

(02:09:02):
and everything in. The cops found them, but they fled
into the school property, so everybody went on a hard lockdown,
and I end up in a closet with the librarian
and like twelve kids. Yeah, and I mean yes, even
then at that other school, I carried them too, and
all the staff knew about it. So I'm about wetting

(02:09:24):
my pants and puke and I'm so scared. But I
posted right up in front of that door until the
police knocked on it.

Speaker 3 (02:09:30):
Yeah. And that's the thing, that's the hide.

Speaker 9 (02:09:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:09:34):
Their game plan was to hide. And even if the
worst case scenarios would have happened and they shoot, it
would have beened to sue. Hide. And behind that wooden
door is going to.

Speaker 9 (02:09:43):
Die If I say it was just a basic wooden door.
I mean, that's all it was. It was a library
room closet, that's all it was.

Speaker 3 (02:09:49):
Right, So the safety that y'all felt.

Speaker 9 (02:09:51):
Was didn't feel safe.

Speaker 3 (02:09:54):
I'm saying it wasn't a real but that the kids.

Speaker 9 (02:09:57):
Might have because you know, adults were present. These are
kindergarten still at the time, and they always you know,
adults are going to protect us. That's just you know
what kids are always sought. But us adults in there,
we're losing our minds because y'all realize that it's that
it that it could very well come down to this, like.

Speaker 3 (02:10:16):
And that's like his system there.

Speaker 9 (02:10:19):
That would have eliminated that fear, that anxiety, Like I
would have known that like not only was our daughter safe,
but her classmates, the librarian, the other parents that were
there helping out, Like it would have taken away that
anxiety that, oh my god, what are we going to do?
How are we going to protect these kids? How are
we going to protect each other?

Speaker 3 (02:10:38):
Well, I think this three D response is the.

Speaker 9 (02:10:43):
I think that, yeah, I think this is the answer.
And I was sold on this like ages ago when
I first found out about it, like through Carl and everything,
because that's how I met Jason too. I was sold
on it even then, but to annoy you, like, I'm
like two hundred percent in now.

Speaker 11 (02:11:00):
So to give you guys just an example, the first
school we were installed in was called Krishianaarage Academy. It's
about a two hundred now two hundred Christian school. When
we went there, it was like a ninety kids school,
so it was it was smaller. I think they had
like eight classrooms a cafeteria. Once the installation was done,

(02:11:25):
you know, parents come through and it's a it's a
nine thousand dollars year school. Parents come through and they
always ask, what are you doing for safety? Well, what
they used to say is well we do run hid
fight and we have cameras. Now after we were installed,
it's literally a sixty minute walk through on the complete system.

(02:11:45):
They're waiting. List shot up one hundred and forty percent. Nice,
they're adding they actually they have a staging out plan,
four stages. They've shot up to two hundred kids and
they have to add them to the school. And I
talked to the principal. The biggest selling point they have
is parents want.

Speaker 9 (02:12:06):
Their kids to be safe absolutely.

Speaker 11 (02:12:09):
And when they show them this, the parents can drop
them off with a sense of security that if something happens,
they have a plan, an actual tactical plan to keep
my childlife.

Speaker 9 (02:12:21):
Yeah, that that would be a selling point for me.

Speaker 3 (02:12:28):
Yeah, no plan. Oh, it's completely encompasent, is one hundred
percent safe. But I tell you this, and I'm having
a hard time finding holes in. Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 9 (02:12:38):
I think it's as close to about one hundred percent
safe as you can feasibly.

Speaker 3 (02:12:42):
Get go ahead.

Speaker 11 (02:12:45):
I'm sorry, Rick. I sent you a feed that I
posted on x and if you can play it. I
posted this because I was pissed off. I was pissed
off because the same rhetoric keeps occurrying in, currying, incurring,
so I wanted people to see kind of the real
side to it. And it's graphic, but I don't give

(02:13:07):
a shit. This is literally what happens, and you guys
can watch it. I actually, when I watched it, the
guy who made it, I literally was tearing up at
the end, So I think it'll open your eyes a
little bit.

Speaker 22 (02:14:22):
There was a kid who saw him and saw him
with the gun in the very right in the very
beginning before he started firing. The shooter told him to
get out cause it's gonna get ugly. He was probably
scared out of his mind. I can't blame him for that,
but he did go and make somebody aware of what
he saw. It was just unfortunate that was too late.

Speaker 23 (02:14:46):
We were listening to music and just talking cause we
didn't have any more work to do. Usually, whoever sits
at the back of the room usually answers the door.

(02:15:07):
I went to answer the door, so I paused in
my music. I stood up, and as I was standing up,
I heard the gunshots.

Speaker 24 (02:15:17):
Another student has trapped all all up and down his
arms and he was sitting next to two with the
students that were shot, so he was covered in blood.
Students were in all areas of the classroom trying to
just hide and protect themselves because we had no warning.
We were never heard real life gunshot. So I was

(02:15:37):
like sitting there processing, like what is this?

Speaker 11 (02:15:39):
This is really what.

Speaker 13 (02:15:40):
I think it is.

Speaker 24 (02:15:41):
And at that moment, my friend Helena behind me, Okay,
is anybody injured.

Speaker 18 (02:16:02):
Lays coming by school?

Speaker 21 (02:16:04):
If they shut up?

Speaker 20 (02:16:07):
Are you at the school?

Speaker 2 (02:16:10):
I don't think I can't heart you.

Speaker 15 (02:16:13):
Are you at the school?

Speaker 23 (02:16:25):
M h.

Speaker 24 (02:16:37):
H h.

Speaker 13 (02:16:43):
Yeah, it does a sound movement.

Speaker 2 (02:16:52):
Oh my, oh my god, mh.

Speaker 13 (02:17:05):
I was just waiting for him to open that. I
will still seeing.

Speaker 16 (02:17:11):
And I could see the door, just think, way to
do in?

Speaker 2 (02:17:21):
What am I going to do? Something?

Speaker 13 (02:17:24):
I don't know if I say we love you hi,
because I thought.

Speaker 11 (02:17:33):
That was actually a kid asking for help?

Speaker 25 (02:17:36):
What was Anthony Borge just exactly yelling out?

Speaker 3 (02:17:39):
He was screaming, help me, help me, please help me?

Speaker 9 (02:17:42):
Was he really.

Speaker 3 (02:17:44):
Does that want you?

Speaker 11 (02:17:45):
Do you hear those that voice? Do you?

Speaker 23 (02:17:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 26 (02:17:49):
Like the first few nights, I just remember.

Speaker 18 (02:17:51):
Like thinking like, oh my god, I couldn't help him, which.

Speaker 3 (02:17:54):
Is horrible since the door was right there and we
could have easily gone out.

Speaker 19 (02:17:57):
It's just horrible the thing that you couldn't help them.

Speaker 26 (02:17:59):
More, we heard someone calling for help, and I would
look at them and I would just shake my hand and.

Speaker 24 (02:18:20):
I would tell them no, no, no.

Speaker 26 (02:18:23):
So my students and I were all looking at each
other like you know, what do we do?

Speaker 24 (02:18:26):
But it could have been the shooter trying to lure
us out.

Speaker 9 (02:18:29):
You open up your door, and.

Speaker 16 (02:18:31):
You open up the possibility of getting all.

Speaker 6 (02:18:32):
Your students and yourself killed.

Speaker 11 (02:18:48):
The ground and.

Speaker 19 (02:18:51):
Stood up and saw Mattie stooped against the front side of.

Speaker 14 (02:18:55):
The desk, Maddie.

Speaker 7 (02:19:01):
Then I went back to Maddie and Maddie I could
see she was shot multiple times, but I didn't.

Speaker 1 (02:19:06):
Know exactly where she was in and out of.

Speaker 16 (02:19:08):
Consciousness, and she turned pale white to lips were white.

Speaker 13 (02:19:11):
She was moaning and growing and the losing silence.

Speaker 19 (02:19:14):
I saw it with multiple rules.

Speaker 16 (02:19:15):
I didn't know exactly where they were those.

Speaker 5 (02:19:17):
Prayed to move from.

Speaker 9 (02:19:18):
And because I left her the way she was, that
saved her life.

Speaker 15 (02:19:21):
Otherwise, if I laid her.

Speaker 19 (02:19:22):
Flat from what I understand the lungs of the collapse,
I was outside class name to dandage Maddie because she
wasn't moving and was no longer making.

Speaker 2 (02:19:33):
Any m.

Speaker 1 (02:19:38):
And so I walked her room, Maddie, and not to the
geen jacket.

Speaker 19 (02:19:42):
I was getting around her arm and then the other
side of the jean jacket to come forward against the
first course where she was also head.

Speaker 20 (02:19:49):
And that's why I stayed until the officers came down.

Speaker 2 (02:19:55):
Rand Oh my God, help me, help me.

Speaker 13 (02:20:30):
By logan my desk before my water bot it can
you get my phone with the.

Speaker 14 (02:20:42):
Back with the water bottle?

Speaker 2 (02:20:49):
Yes, let's.

Speaker 13 (02:20:58):
Come on. Follow me follow me, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:21:05):
On the wall, don't go go. Let me see.

Speaker 11 (02:21:56):
Because my daughter has no voice.

Speaker 27 (02:21:59):
She was murdered like this week, and she was taken
from us, shot nine times on the third floor. We
as a country failed our children.

Speaker 11 (02:22:14):
This shouldn't happen.

Speaker 27 (02:22:16):
We go to the airport, I can't get on a
plane with a bottled water, but we leave it. Some
animal could walk into a school and shoot our children.

Speaker 25 (02:22:27):
I'm very angry that this happened because it keeps happening.
Nine to eleven happened once and they fixed everything. How
many schools, how many children have to get shot? Should
have been one school shooting and we should have fixed it.

Speaker 18 (02:22:45):
It's been nineteen years since Columbine and nothing's been done.
After nine to eleven. We hardened the cockpits, and we
hardened the airports. We created the TSA. After the Oklahoma
City bombing, we created another Asian SEE to develop standards
so we could.

Speaker 3 (02:23:02):
Harden federal buildings.

Speaker 18 (02:23:04):
We need to harden our schools, just like we hardened
our airports and our federal buildings.

Speaker 15 (02:23:09):
That is the way we can make our schools.

Speaker 18 (02:23:11):
Safe so that teachers can teach and children can learn
without the fear of dying in their classrooms.

Speaker 25 (02:23:20):
The killer when he got to the third floor, before
he left the building was trying to fire.

Speaker 9 (02:23:24):
Through the windows to shoot at students fleeing.

Speaker 25 (02:23:27):
But those windows were hurricane fer Exactly how come the
windows in the classroom doors are.

Speaker 3 (02:23:32):
Not that good?

Speaker 14 (02:23:33):
Question?

Speaker 3 (02:23:35):
Is not a requirement. It's not a building code. We
have fire codes till.

Speaker 18 (02:23:39):
We haven't died in a fire since nineteen fifty eight.

Speaker 9 (02:23:41):
We really loved today school safety.

Speaker 28 (02:23:44):
Back in October, I lost my brother to cancer from
the service to nine to elevens that at the time
seemed impossible to me.

Speaker 3 (02:23:54):
It made no sense.

Speaker 11 (02:23:57):
It couldn't happen, and it couldn't get work.

Speaker 3 (02:24:01):
This is worse. This is makes no sense, This is impossible.

Speaker 28 (02:24:08):
My girl, my fourteen year old baby, and for those
of you who know my Jamie, she was the life
of the party.

Speaker 11 (02:24:16):
She was the energy in the room.

Speaker 16 (02:24:19):
She made people laugh and yes sometimes she made us cry.

Speaker 28 (02:24:24):
But she was always known. She always made her residence volte.
I sent her to school yesterday. She was supposed to
be safe. My job is to protect my children.

Speaker 3 (02:24:44):
And I might get to school.

Speaker 2 (02:24:48):
In the morning.

Speaker 28 (02:24:49):
Sometimes things get so crazy she runs out.

Speaker 11 (02:24:54):
Behind and she's like, I.

Speaker 28 (02:24:56):
Gotta go, dad bye, And I don't always get to
say I love you. I don't remember if I put
that to Jamie yesterday morning.

Speaker 14 (02:25:10):
Sometimes I wish I didn't know that things did.

Speaker 9 (02:25:19):
Yeah, and you miss.

Speaker 17 (02:25:28):
Something to believe.

Speaker 3 (02:25:37):
Yeah, that's definitely a powerful video. Uh, bumps up, Barbie
here is in tears. I definitely teared up as well.
But I guess that's that's why you do it, didn't it.
I mean, that's why three D Responses is there that
one gentleman was talking about fortified airports and the cockpits

(02:25:57):
and the federal buildings. We should fortified the schools.

Speaker 9 (02:26:02):
Those people are going to remember that boy screaming in
the hallway for the rest of their lives, and that
should just that should not be ever something that we tolerate.
And we also shouldn't have to hear these these people
talk about their children and their own funerals, you know,
like we're supposed to outlive our kids, that's the natural

(02:26:24):
order of things. Like there's absolutely no world I can
imagine ever having to speak at our daughter's funeral and
it's prage. So it just it makes it so much
worse for me.

Speaker 11 (02:26:37):
That's why I pray to God, and that's why I
made this video. Was can we please stop with the
gun debate? Can we please stop with its? Of course
it's mental health, but what can we do now? And
if our system was in that school, the outcome is
completely different. Yeah, just we need to look at what

(02:27:02):
can we do as parents, as a society, what needs
to be done, And that's why we made the video.

Speaker 9 (02:27:12):
Yeah, that was very very powerful, Like I'm trying to
get myself under control so I can finish up the here.

Speaker 11 (02:27:22):
No, you're right, that's uh. That video. I think I
wish everybody would see it that you can watch it
on you can watch the news report. But you know,
I can't tell you how many death scenes I've been
to or how many dead bodies I've seen, and I'm
not I don't like that and every time it sucks.

(02:27:46):
But when they're children, it affects you and I don't
like it. So let's make it right and let's stop arguing.
There's a way to do it, like I said, Like
I said in the interview, you can't stop the first one,
but you can next you can stop the next five.

Speaker 3 (02:28:06):
Yeah, yeah, and that's I mean you've actually tonight is
convinced me that I'm I'm going to follow your suit.
I'm no longer going to have the argument about guns
versus no guns school.

Speaker 9 (02:28:21):
So we have we have a solution here. We have
a way to protect them now. So I want let's just.

Speaker 3 (02:28:28):
Focus on that from here on out. I will point
people too at three D Responses here on X to
see it for themselves. Yeah, and we've got roughly one
thousand people listening right now, and I want you all
to visit Jason on X at three D Responses and
see these videos and lock them and share them and follow.

Speaker 29 (02:28:51):
Him and apred it for this in your community, spread
the word on it, because I'm telling you it's the
answers there, or at least a huge chunk the right
direction of an answer is is sitting right there.

Speaker 9 (02:29:04):
So we can work. We can work on the mental
health stuff and everything, but right now we have to
just protect people.

Speaker 3 (02:29:10):
So I'm telling you check. I encourage all of you
to get to go check it out and follow him
if you don't already, and please share his this three
D Responses thing. I mean, it is a good, good,
good thing.

Speaker 9 (02:29:23):
I say. I think we've about covered everything. We'll let
Jason and Carl like again, just kind of reiterate who
they are, where to find them, Like we we absolutely
need to get these people out here because they're fighting
the good fight alongside us.

Speaker 3 (02:29:38):
And I want to say now that now that Jason's
been on the show, I'd love to have him back,
but for other other circumstances.

Speaker 9 (02:29:46):
Yeah, let's let's hope that we can get a handle
on this type of incident right now so we don't
have to keep doing an episode.

Speaker 3 (02:29:54):
Hopefully the next time it'll be a celebration of him
getting this all pasted and get these things put in schools. Yeah,
even more across the country.

Speaker 9 (02:30:05):
So yeah, you guys, go ahead tell everybody where they
can find you. Again, so in case anybody who's tuning
in light and everything, they don't, they don't miss anything.

Speaker 11 (02:30:19):
At three D Responses, I've been an officer for thirty
years and protecting kids that have been my passion. Wrote
my thesis paper on it, Active Shooter Instructor, School Resource Officer.
I've testified it at Congress. I I'm not I don't

(02:30:40):
like the word expert, but I know a lot about
this and my whole goal, like I said, we didn't
start this to make money. We started to fix a problem,
and there needs to be a paradigm shift on how
we think about this, especially after something happens. Let the
gun control to leave that up to the morons that

(02:31:01):
are arguing about it. The mental health thing. Totally agree,
but you have to ask can we fix it tomorrow?
So in the meantime, let's just keep our kids safe.

Speaker 9 (02:31:14):
Yeah, absolutely, could not possibly agree more.

Speaker 3 (02:31:17):
Yeah, I par that completely. I think Carl may have
stepped away yet to do a live event.

Speaker 9 (02:31:24):
I saw that he was, let's say, I know his
little boy and everything was asleep earlier too, so that's
why he hadn't been quite as vocal.

Speaker 3 (02:31:31):
But if for Carl, it is at you are the letters,
you are underscore, a underscore score, smart ass Carl. Yeah,
and he's a fun follow as well, real knowledgeable, and
he's the second time he's been on the show, and

(02:31:52):
I'm sure he'll be on again in the future, just
like I hope Jason joins us again. And it's been
honored to have both of you on here again. Everybody listening,
go check out three D responses on its and lock
and follow and share the word find these videos on there.

(02:32:14):
I was kind of perusing this page while we were
doing the show tonight and there's a lot of good
information and a lot of stuff on there, So share it,
get the word out.

Speaker 2 (02:32:26):
Now.

Speaker 3 (02:32:28):
As normal Front Force Friends is usually runs about two hours,
so tonight we wanted to We didn't have Jut's position
behind it, so we was comfortable carrying on because it's
a very important topic because it is a real world,
real time answer to this pandemic or not, or to
this problem that's going on right now, this phenomena, I guess, yeah,

(02:32:51):
And but we want to go back to where we
started with this episode with the.

Speaker 9 (02:32:58):
Are in Memoriam now, yeah, with the.

Speaker 3 (02:33:02):
Catholic school shooting, because far too often the victims' names
in these situations get replaced by the shooters names and
all the headlines. We inadvertently turn these killers into legends,
and sometimes that's what these killers are wanting to happen.

(02:33:23):
Now while the victims, While this is happening and the
focus is put on the killers, the victims fade away
into just another statistics, and we are to remember their
names far longer than we remember the killer names.

Speaker 9 (02:33:38):
Yeah, we always like to end with our victims' names,
because that kind of reiterates, it puts them. Those are
the last names you hear, those are the last faces
you remember. At this vigil in Minneapolis, candles lit the
church steps, parents were holding each other, Classmates were drawing
cards for their injured friends, tape and get well soon

(02:34:01):
onto ICU walls. One girl, she was eleven years old,
Genevieve Besick or Biseck. If I butcher that name again,
I'm sorry. She's still in intensive care. Her aunt says
that the handmade cards from her classmates are what keep
little Genevieve's spirits up. And to me, that's resilience. That's

(02:34:25):
what community looks like when it's cracked but not broken.
So now we remember the two precious little souls that
were savagely and needlessly taken from us. That was Fletcher Merkel,
he was eight years old, and Harper Amoyski, who is
ten years old. So this week, America, we have buried

(02:34:47):
two more children. And let's not let this be just
another news cycle. Guys, let this sit with you. Let
it remind you that sanctuary schools and these places they're
not made safe by sign They're made safe by action.
So y'all just hold your loved ones tight tonight. Pray
for Fletcher, Pray for Harper, for every wounded child trying

(02:35:09):
to sleep through all these nightmares that they're going to
have for god knows how long.

Speaker 3 (02:35:13):
After this right, and that, like you just said, places
aren't made safe by signs, they're made by safe by actions.
And three D Responses is an action that is readily
available and it's ready to be implemented.

Speaker 9 (02:35:29):
I so we can, we can, and we do pray
for our children's safety and everything, and our prayers are
backed up by action here, Like let's let's let's try
to get this implemented nationwide.

Speaker 3 (02:35:41):
And again I ask you all that's listening, spread the
word and visit Jason, give him a follow three at
three D Responses, and let's say we can't get this
moving forward.

Speaker 9 (02:35:53):
Yeah, so absolutely, we will see you guys next week.

Speaker 3 (02:35:58):
Yes, again, And I want to thank Jason and Carl
again and Rick of course as always, And uh, it
was a pleasure, Jason sure.

Speaker 11 (02:36:07):
Was, and all honesty, thank you guys for having me
on here. This was one of the honest god best
spaces I've been in to talk about this. And I
appreciate your willingness to just listen, and yeah, it's it's refreshing,
So thank you very very much.

Speaker 3 (02:36:27):
Absolutely, And if on down the line, if something comes up,
if you got some more news you need to share
with us, just reach out and would love to have
you on again.

Speaker 9 (02:36:35):
So yeah, absolutely, you bet. Thank you, guys, Thank you
till then you guys, y'all, keep report light on, keep
your heart guarded, and please don't do anything that'll make
you the subject of one of my next episodes.

Speaker 3 (02:36:49):
Good Night, y'all.

Speaker 1 (02:36:50):
Nobody wants to be on a shopping list.

Speaker 2 (02:36:59):
Day, and I like her that I don't like bigger
un talk. Bribes may maybe feel just right.

Speaker 14 (02:37:09):
I listen to a lot of true crime

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