July 31, 2025 • 47 mins
Charles sat down with dynamic author and visual artist Juano Diaz.
They discuss Juano's gripping autobiography "Slum Boy," the idea of art as sanctuary, being an adopted child who became an adoptive parent, and so much more!
LEARN MORE About Juano Diaz
GET YOUR COPY Of "Slum Boy"
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They discuss Juano's gripping autobiography "Slum Boy," the idea of art as sanctuary, being an adopted child who became an adoptive parent, and so much more!
LEARN MORE About Juano Diaz
GET YOUR COPY Of "Slum Boy"
--
Visit our Linktree
-- Please Subscribe and Give Us A Review (5 stars or more, preferably!)
SUPPORT US ON PATREON
Check out Medway Pride Radio
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Coming to you from the dining room table at East
Barbary Lane. Welcome to a special episode of Full Circle
the podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Junior, and
today I am thrilled to be sitting with our guest.
Juano Diaz is a wonderful author and artist, and his autobiography,
(00:37):
entitled Slumboy, has been called by The Guardian one of
the most moving accounts of non fiction ever written, and
I cannot help but agree. Wano, thank you so much
for joining us. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm good? Thank you so much, Charles. That's some introduction.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
You definitely deserve it. So the first question that I
decided I needed to ask you after reading this turbulent,
tumultuous tale that was alliterated, is how are you doing now?
Tell me good things about yourself now?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yes, I am good. Honestly, I thought as an adult,
I thought to myself, you know what I've lived with
my past. I've lived with my childhood, with the abuse,
the anxiety, the adoptions, the losing people. I really thought
(01:35):
I'd dealt with that until I had to sit down
and write this book. And what really got me was
the early part of my childhood having to sit and
go through three hundred pages of social work records and
write about this little boy's life, my life. It broke me,
(01:56):
and it broke me. Not for me, he me, because
there's still hundreds of thousands of children all over the
world who are going through these kind of things daily hunger,
you know, living in terrible circumstances, sexual abuse, violence, alcoholism.
(02:18):
So yeah, it really broke me having to sort of
go through that, and it made me realize, christ I
have come this lovely far and I've made it so
but I'm good. I'm really good. I'm really loving that
people are reaching out from different backgrounds from I'm hearing
(02:40):
nothing from artists, which is great. I'm hearing a lot
from people who were in care, who were in children's homes,
and social workers and people who work with alcoholics. My
mother was an alcoholic and a street worker. And it's
I'm loving. I'm loving and I'm loving hearing from everyone
(03:04):
and people saying, you know, I went through very similar things.
You know, that's horrible to hear. But just just to
know that you're not alone, is It's nice?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, And I actually I was going to ask you
about the process of writing this book because you had
to revisit so much pain and uncertainty and darkness in
order to tell your story. I mean, what were you
(03:38):
doing in terms of self care? Because I hope you
you had a support system while you were going through
the process of putting this book together.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I always say that art is my support system. I
use as a therapy. I always have. But again, writing
about those early years caught me off guard and at
one point I said, I am going to have to
seek some extra help to speak about this while I'm
(04:12):
writing the writing this And the crazy thing is here
in the UK we are being cut massively and in
every aspect the arts are being cut by the government. Doctors, nurses,
you can't get seen, you know, you can't get a
dental appointment, and the health and the mental health practices
(04:37):
are just overrun and terribly, terribly run as far as
I'm concerned. It took a long time for the appointment
to come up, and by that point I was kind
of like, Okay, I've dealt with it already myself, you know,
But yeah, it's been really What's what's been really healing
(04:59):
is talking about to go out to festivals and talking
about it and people asking questions, because what I noticed
people do is they tend to ask questions two things
they need answers to within themselves. But they'll but they'll
(05:20):
they'll do it through the through the the guys of
asking questions about my story if you know, do you
know what I mean? But anyway, I just I find
that really fascinating. And then yeah, I've just I've met
a huge, huge network of people from all different backgrounds
that have just come and kind of put their arms
(05:41):
around me and gave me a big hug and opened up.
And it's it's been fair. I've really loved the process.
It's been tough, but I've loved it good.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
And I definitely hear you about art being a support
system because I said many many times, if it were
not for the ability to express myself through art, I
don't know that I would be here.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I say the same thing, Charles, I totally hear you.
I hear you, maybe not so much now, but more
when I was going through my teenage years and you're
sort of going through that sort of time where you're
trying going through puberty and there's all these emotions running view.
(06:27):
If I hadn't had the means to express myself, whether
it be you know, putting a wig on and my
mum's fur coat and climbing out of the bedroom window,
which is what I used to do, and not because
anybody could see me, because I would do it in
the middle of the night and I'd walk around this
tiny village in Scotland and it was just that liberating
(06:49):
feeling that I'm doing something fabulous and authentically me and
I'm not conforming to my upbringing, which.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Was part of the point of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And you were doing it for yourself. You weren't doing
it for other people. And sometimes that's the best stuff.
When you're not right, you're not worried about the outside eye,
the outside opinion. Beautiful. I imagine that your art. If
(07:24):
you were to do a side by side comparison of
your art then and your art now, there would be
some drastic differences. There would have to be.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
There are, but there's still a common theme for me.
When I was a little boy, when I was separated
from my mother. To give some context to the listeners,
my mother was a street worker and lady of the night, prostitute,
however you want to call it, I say, a street
(07:54):
worker and she was an addict. She was an alcoholic,
and she had a lot of ment health issues, so
she would leave me and my sisters for long periods
of time and go to work and come home drunk.
And an incident happened where we lost one of the
(08:14):
men that she kind of really attached to, and he
was really good for her in many ways, and we
both saw him drown when I was a little boy,
and it just threw my mum's world upside down and
she just wasn't able to mentally cope physically cope. So
my sisters were put into care, and the social services
(08:38):
tried to kind of keep me with my mum, and
they really could have done more to support her, but
they tried to keep me with her, but they kept
separating us and putting me into care. Well, she tried
to do rehab anyway. Eventually I was put into this
children's home and my mum, because she was drinking, would
(09:00):
stop kind of stopped visiting. She would say she was
going to turn up, and she wouldn't, so I had
no photographs. And by this time, the social workers were
preparing me to be adopted, and they'd given me a
scrap book and they said, Okay, we don't have any
photos of your mum, but draw some photo, draw some images.
(09:22):
And that's where it all came from for me, because
I I kind of I love this woman. She was
very exotic working women. She'd read hair and very high
cheek bones and very Asian eyes, and I would just
draw this face with the big spider leg lashes and
faces became very important from that moment, and then also
(09:43):
when I was adopted, it continued, you know, because it
was the only thing I had to remember my mother's image,
So drawing faces became very very important. And then when
I got to school, I remember to teach photographing our
the class and photocopying it. And back in the day,
(10:08):
the old photocopiers had an ink that when it dried,
you could scratch it with a knife and you could
remove some of the black area. Yeah, so I used
to change my face and sometimes sometimes I look like
my mom, and sometimes I just started to play with
my face like and then I would build a kind
(10:29):
of decopage and collage around it. So it really started
then really really really young.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
So you were trying to reconstruct your past through the deconstruction.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I was trying to find I was trying to find
my identity within this world that i'd been adopted into.
My adoptive father was of the Roman Gypsy community and
my mother was Catholics. They were very very strict, very close,
very private people. So when I asked my parents, you know,
(11:05):
why are my eyes like this? You know, why do
I laugh like this? They had no reference and they
didn't want to know because, as far as they were concerned,
we adopted you. You're one of us. Now, forget the past,
and you know, so it was it was difficult for them.
But because they hadn't training this I'm talking in the eighties,
(11:28):
there was no training for people to adopt. It was literally,
here's a child, to.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Get on with it, girl, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You know. So, so yeah, it was I don't know
where I was going with that.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Well, yeah I did notice that, Yeah, you're your adopted family.
It really did feel like they didn't want you to
even think about your your past that you know, your
life started when they brought you home, that's right, And I.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Think that's really unfair to do that for a child.
You know, I'm an adoptive parent myself, Me and my
partner have a little boy.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
The amazing thing about now, when you go through the
adoption process, you have weeks, months of coursework, months and
months with social workers and learning about the developing brain
of a child and what my parents And I love
my parents that the people who adopted me are my
parents as far as I'm concerned, right, But they could
(12:36):
have they could really could have done with the training
that they're given now, because I think to hold a
child back, which is what I felt happened to me,
I think it's just it's detrimental to the child's development.
You have to be you have to you have to
approach adoption with patients. Curiosity, empathy, play, and some of
(13:02):
those elements were there, but to be shut down and
told let's not speak about that, Let's leave your whole
identity to the side, and now be this person. It's
it's impossible for a child to.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Do that, especially considering at that point in your in
your life and your development as a child, your entire
being is curiosity and wanting to know and who am
I and why am I? So I can't imagine like
stunting that, you know, like trying to to to tamp
(13:37):
down the child's natural sense of curiosity and wonder and learning.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's it's really impossible to do and and and it's
really what caused the rift between me and especially my
adoptive mother. She just couldn't understand why I just couldn't
settle and she didn't have They had no reference to
the none who looked after me in the children's home,
(14:03):
the man who sexually abused me for weeks on end
in a children's home, violently and emotionally. I was told,
I was told not to talk, don't talk about it,
let's go on with it now. And they had no
reference to my mother, who I'd seen in bed with
men and the hunger, and they had nothing of that,
(14:23):
and there was no opportunity to express it, to talk
it through.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
And yeah, that's an interesting point from what I got
in the book. It feels like your introduction to the
concept of sex and sexuality was warped. It was violent, right.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
It was violent, and it was really it was it
was twisted. I'd already seen. I already knew by the
age of five, what what men and women do, because
because I've seen my mother working, she she was she
was so incapacitated at times that you know these this
(15:09):
this is just the way it was. And but then
when I went into care and and other things were
going on, not just with me, with other children who
were involved in these instances, it was really confusing, really
really confusing. And I don't know. I don't know to
(15:33):
this day, I don't know how much my adoptive parents knew.
I don't know if they knew my mother's past. I
don't think they did. I think had had they had
they known maybe things that maybe they could have got
me some therapy early on. And that's and that's why
(15:53):
I used self therapy with the art Goodness.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I had to thank Goodness for art so and I
and I saw how in your teenage years, in your
early adulthood, it felt like a lot of your relationships
were like transactional, Like how how did all of that
(16:20):
affect your adult relationships? If I may ask, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
I doesn't have many adult relationships. I mean, we've all
we've all kind of done stuff. I had a few.
I had a few relationships when I allowed people to
walk over me and I got into stupid situations and stuff.
I think we all have when we're when we're younger
and I've been so honestly, I've been so sort of
(16:50):
laser focused with creating art and photographs in film that
it's kind of over over to call that for a
long long time. And I've had a I mean, I've
had a couple of relationships. The relationship I mean just
now is probably the most like level one.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
But yeah, well I do love that for you. Yeah,
I imagine, you know, I mean, we all go through
that period of wanting to please others, but you had
to go through that for a sense of like stability
and survival, especially with your adoptive parents wanting to be
(17:40):
the kind of person they wanted you to be, which
meant not being who you were. And I felt like,
you know, that was a constant struggle.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It was, but I fought so hard against them.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
You think you were a difficult child.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
They would say that. They would say, my father to
this day would say you were such an arsehole to us,
and in a joking way, right, But I just I
couldn't help it. I had to express myself. I had to,
you know, when I was at that age where I
(18:20):
understood what was what, I didn't give a ship. I
went out in the village and wore high heels and
making these big camp paintings and just being myself. You know,
I wasn't going to conform to working in a scrap
yard and living in a boxing gym, which is what
my dad done. I hated it. It wasn't me, it
(18:43):
wasn't my name, it's not my nature.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
You were so much bigger than the life that you.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I just was. I just have creativity connected to my core,
and in a small village in Scotland, there's no reference
at all for that. So one wonder full thing happened
with satellite TV when that appeared back in the eighties
and we suddenly were exposed to like fashion, TV and
TV and all that visual stuff. I mean I just
(19:12):
drunk all in and went with it. So it's almost
like an explosion waiting to happen, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Okay, favorite supermodel girl, Naomi Campbell. That better have been
the answer.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Also, mav Pessa, Okay, yes, she's sensational.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I love it, I love it. Yeah, it was a
Naomi fan myself.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, stunning, stunning.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Every now and again I whip out my name Naomi
Campbell walked just because.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Hey, why not?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
You have to exactly you know, I dare say that
your life, as recorded in this book is basically advertisement
for it putting and keeping the arts in schools.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Oh my god, I'm so honored that you said that.
I would love to get this book into schools and
let the teachers read it. Oh, you're right. It's like
it's like the schools need the arts, they need it. Listen,
(20:26):
what was the first thing that people went to when
the pandemic hit music?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Art, TV, video visual.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Because that was comfort.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
It is so important. Without art, life just shit.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And it's always the first thing to get cut. Yeah, yeah,
as if it's not an essential part of life.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I honestly can't remember the last time I had to
do a times table. I mean really well, some of
the stuff we got taught at school, and in my
mad school was horrific. The teachers were bullies, the assholes,
and you know, I had teachers that call me faggot,
you know, And it was terrible, really terrible. And I'm
(21:21):
lucky that we had an amazing art department. And I
had one teacher that I just adore. Her name's Norma,
and she's a very good friend of mine still, And
if I hadn't had this woman, in my life. I
don't know if I'd be here. Honestly, I really don't
know if I'd be here. I was being I was
(21:42):
at a period in my childhood thirteen fourteen, fifteen where
I was so unhappy and nobody I had, nobody to
speak to, nobody who understood how important keytivity was. And
she did and she was that one person, and she
took me and really mothered me in a way that
(22:04):
I really needed. And it wasn't it wasn't all about
her being an art teacher. It was this sort of
patience and curiosity and empathy that came from her. But
it was just she is just I love her so much,
and I think we're lucky when we're young and we
(22:26):
have that person, and not everyone gets that opportunity to
have that person. If I hadn't had her, I would
not be doing what I'm doing today.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I believe it. We need someone to see us.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
She was the first person in all my childhood who
allowed me to talk about my adoption. I'm crazy, don't
know family members, it was all kept. She was the
first person who said, let's explore it in your work.
You know how, how how liberating for me to have.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
That as a definitely. And so, what what is your
favorite medium to work in?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I honestly don't have a favorite. I love technology. I'm
a really early photoshop person, so I loved I love
I love digital, and I yeah, yeah, is going a
bit crazy right now, but some of some of it's extraordinary.
(23:41):
I mean, I can take an old black and white
photograph of me and bring it to life and I could.
I could literally make a movie from a photograph, and
I love that. I love that it's becoming so accessible.
Some of it's completely ridiculous, but if the tools are
used properly, they can they can work. But one thing
(24:04):
I've loved a lot since I've written the book is
I've just gone back to painting, just painting with oils,
and I'm loving it and loving.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
That because that's like the most organic and for lack
of a better primal.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, it's the most authentic. It's the most authentic. There's
no there's no taking a photograph of a flower outside
to then cut it up and paste on something online
on the computer. You have to you have to know
what you're doing with paintbrush.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And right because there's no undo button with the paintbrush.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
There's no one too, So I'm loving I'm loving painting
just now. I have a studio here and it's fantastic
space and it's it's a new space for me and
it's very high ceilings, so I'm like getting all the
big ca I'm just like playing.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I love it. I love it and seeing you come
out on the other side as this strong creative person,
it makes me happy and it gives me hope for
so many of the other people out there who have
(25:25):
trouble passed. And you know, in addition to to visual arts,
you you're an author, what besides besides the book? Like,
is there a plan for a movie of the book?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
In your head.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I honestly can't say too much because I'm literally dealing
with it right now and yeah, but yeah, it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
That's okay. I'm glad the answer is yes. That's exciting, fabulous, fabulous, fabulist.
So do you have you mentioned you know, a relationship
with music. Is there a soundtrack that you like to
have going when you're working?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Oh my god, everything by Cape Bush. Yeah, literally literally
everything by Capish. And I'm a late comer to Cape Bush.
I only kind of hurt her. Well, I mean, I
knew of her, but I didn't really listen until I
met my partner nine years ago. And now it's like
(26:40):
I need Cape bish On to paint. But I also
listen to a lot of percussion. I like Glockenspiel and
I like like, I like a lot of percussions. My friend,
she's called Dame Evelyn Glenney. She's an incredible percussionist. And
we're going to be doinging Slumboy with Alan Cumming at
(27:04):
his at pitt Lockery Festival Theater in January next year.
So I'm going to be reading parts of Slumboy while
Evelyn does this very haunting percussion. And So I listened
to a lot of a lot of different music.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
That's amazing. Yeah, I love it. What was your soundtrack
when you were writing?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Okay? So I listened to a lot of Anthony and
the Johnson's just to get the you know, to get
that vibe. Especially in the early years. I listened to
some of Grace's Grace Jones's Hurricane album. She kindly gave
(27:49):
me the short quote from I'm Crying Mother's Tears, which
is at the start of the book that song in
particular is just everything I feel about that book, because
the song is saying, you know, I'm I'm I'm grown
(28:10):
enough to sort of cry my mother's tears. So it's
kind of saying I'm I'm I'm old enough to understand
what my mother went through, you know. So she yeah.
So when I said, Grace, can I can I use
this little snippets. I'd love people to just see it
and then maybe play it and listen to it after
(28:31):
they've read the book, they'll understand this this record and
she's like, yes, I love that.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Look at you, Okay, Alan coming and Grace Jones. That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I love Alan. He's you know what I feel. I
feel very protective of them me too, actually, fellow Scott,
but most importantly, he's a fellow Fawn. It's a fellow.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
True. This is true, and that's one of the things
we love about him so much.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
He's adorable.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Really. I love that you mentioned in the book that
your basically your addiction is art, and that's the healthiest
addiction I can think of.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Hey, it could have been so many other things. Exactly
here we are and yeah, I smoke, that's an addiction.
But I can't drink. You know, my mother is an alcoholic.
I'm not into taking drugs. I like to know where
my friend is right. But yeah, I couldn't live without creativity.
(29:51):
And I get I get this thing where if I
have something in my mind, I can't get to the
studio to work on it. It starts to drive me.
It starts to like take me right, you know, it
starts to like I need to I need to get
it out. I need so if I can't get to
stud I need to get something to draw it onto.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Mm hmm, I I feel you on that. I definitely do.
You have a wonderful use of language in the way
that you you wrote this book? Where did you you
obviously have a love of words you were Were you
(30:29):
a voracious reader as well?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
No? Never, I hadn't. I hadn't. I don't think I'd
read a full book in my life.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Really.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yes, I came to reading very very late.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
And I mean to understand, I don't.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I wrote a screenplay actually, and it was based on
a part of the book you have in front of you, someboy,
but I kind of I kind of fabricated it in
made the made the characters not me, So that I
could hide behind these characters. And I put it to
(31:08):
Alan coming and he was like, this is fantastic. Let's
get it made. And we both I was living in
New York at the time, and we both came back
to Scotland and I ended up falling in love with
my partner here and adopting a little boy. And then
I through the process of trying to rework this piece
(31:32):
that i'd written, someboy appeared and I was like, let
me just tell my truth instead of trying to write
this other thing. And but no, I approach writing very
much in the same way that I would with painting
that I find them very very similar. You're just creating
a visual with words. But I also come from the
(31:56):
Gypsy culture where we have we speak English, but we
also my family also speak what's what's known as scott
Scottish Aroma Can't, which is their own language, and they're big,
big storytellers as well. So I'm used to hearing story
(32:19):
and I'm used to hearing narrative, especially from my grandmother,
and I would hear it in both languages, so I
would hear it and my family speak Scottish English, but
we also speak the Scots Roma can't so, I guess
words and stories are always been a big part of
(32:39):
my life. Even though I didn't read. I read. I
would read art books. I would I would look through
a biography of an artist and look at all the
the details. But I wouldn't. I'd never sat down and
read a novel until I finished, until I finished slumboy okay,
(33:01):
And I only I only picked them up because I
had to. I started to be introduced to other authors,
and but it's been fantastic. I've I've opened this whole
new world to myself. You know.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I love that and it's of your own creation.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yes, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
That is what one of the warmer moments in in
the book is when you were introduced to the Romanic culture.
It felt like to me coming home for you.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Does that sound accurate?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, definitely. I mean that's although the culture was very
hard and very private, and the men had certain expectations
put up on them to be, you know, real men.
You go to your box, right, and you go and
(34:05):
you work in the family scrap yard, which my dad owned.
And it's a very hard world. And I found the
softness in the females of the family, particularly my father's mother,
my granny. I just adored she. She was a clearvoyant women.
(34:27):
So she would do tarer cars, tea leaves and that's
how they made their money when they traveled around. My
family were settled in a property and a house, but
when they were when my dad was born, he was
born in a wagon and they traveled around. And that's
how my granny, my grandmother made money. She what we
(34:49):
call darking, which is clairvoyance. And and I I she
loved me like she loved her own people. There was
no separation. You know. She'd take me and cuddle me
and tell me stories and singing songs. And then yeah,
that was that's coming home to any child.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
You know, that's the element that I love. Basically, they
saw you and just went mine.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yes, it really is, and that's that's that's incredible. I
really owe I owe them a lot because they instilled
in me a lot of good morals. Something I wanted
to do with Slumboy was show what these people are
actually like, because they get a real bad rap, especially
here in the UK in the media we see traveling
(35:43):
gypsy people being completely exploited on television. You know, they
have I think it's my big fat Gypsy Weddings TV show.
It's awful.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
It's just awful, And that doesn't sound like it would
be any good at all.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
It's just trash. It's that kind of trash TV where they,
you know, like when they you know, when they show
these harder people, you just exploit these poor mentally mentally
people or challenge people. It's just very similar here in
UK towards the traveling community. So I just wanted to
be as honest as I couldn't say that is not
(36:17):
that is not what I experienced with these people. Yeah,
it's hard, and yeah you would expected to have be
a man's man and be very private and live in
the gypsy way. But there was also really wonderful culture
two to be embraced by. So I love it.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So your queer identity was a very important part of
the book and of course of your life. Basically, I
guess tell me about being a spot of color in
a gray world.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I mean, what else can I be? You know, we
are so lucky in so many ways that we don't
live in other countries where we've been lynched. M m
yea be lynched even for having a couple of tattoos
(37:19):
and having fain glasses that you're wearing. You know, we
would we wouldn't be able to we wouldn't be able
to breathe.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
And lynched if we're lucky. Oh, you know, just.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
So sad and in so many ways, I feel like
we're going backwards fast and that frightens me. And I
think it frightens me more that I have a child
that I'm raising and I worry about what kind of
world he's going into. And and when I look back
(37:55):
at my own childhood, although there's been lots of hard, hardly,
I feel really lucky, really lucky that we're able to
be ourself, right. I wouldn't change it for the world.
I mean, I can imagine being anything else than a
(38:19):
queer person, right. Indeed, indeed, I love it. I love
my colors.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Exactly. And that's the thing that so many people don't understand.
Like we bring color to the world, we bring magic
to the world. So much of what makes the beautiful
tapestry of our society, of our culture, both locally and globally,
(38:48):
it comes from us. It just does. That's just facts.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Without us, the world would be a grim gray you know, nilong, right,
flat you know.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Place there would be no texture. Everyone's hair would be
just flat and lifeless, and they wouldn't have a frame
of reference to want anything better.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
That's true. It's crazy, it's true.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
It is true. And I do love. I love that
you're a daddy. Now, so what lessons from your own
upbringing do you think you will choose to pass on
to your own kid.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I'm for saying that. I have him actor John Leguizamo
in my head where he's in drag and he's doing
one of his characters that he done on stage. I
think it's a show he done Cold Spicorama.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, And he.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Says, you hate your own mother until you become her,
and then you're with the deepest respect. And it's true.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I used to think, cause you know, my adoptive mother.
I used to because she was so hard on me.
Why didn't she just let me have that gum and hm,
that bubble gum? And why didn't she just let me
be fabulous? And and then you and then you have
a child too to raise, and and and you see
(40:34):
how difficult it is. But the one, the one thing
I have is that I have the same experience that
my child had. I'm adopted. He's adopted, so I come
at it with a really different angle. I can answer
all those questions that my parents couldn't answer for me,
which were detrimental, really right, But I love being the
(40:59):
dad's It's just the best thing. And he's he's so musical,
and then I just love watching him create. It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
How old is he?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
He's nine?
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Oh, I love that age. I taught kids for twenty years,
so like, I know what nine looks like.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Well, he came into a life when he was four,
and you know it's not you know, it's not a
my story to tell, but he came from a really
difficult start also, and it's just I'm so proud of
(41:44):
the little man he is becoming.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
And the thing about four year old, there's still that's
the age, like there's still not afraid to love like openly.
So the so if the fact that you got him
at that point and move forward with a loving, nurturing
environment is perfection.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yes, but it's one of the amazing one of the
amazing things I learned when I was going through the
adoption process and doing all the course work with psychologists
and all these doctors is that you learn a lot
about the developing brain of a child. And when a
child goes through things that we went I went through.
My children went through starvation and abuse and neglect, they
(42:31):
damage the brain. They physically damaged the brain, so the
child does have an amount of a stump and learning
almost And what's incredible is that love, the love of aarent,
rebuilds and refires the neurons in the brain and heals
(42:53):
the brain. It's just, I mean, I gets saying it.
That for me is to hear that. When I heard that,
it was so it was so grindbreaking because it put
everything into context for why I behaved the way I
did as a child, why my parents chose the decisions,
(43:15):
and the way they wanted to pay me because they
paid they loved me, you know, they showed me love,
physical love, but it was tough love, but it was
still secure love. And then, yeah, I just I make
sure my child does plenty of the good stuff.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
I love that. And you get to heal certain parts
of yourself through loving him.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yes, he has healed me more than anything has healed me,
having this, having this experience.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
I love that for you.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Yeah, I really do.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
So your story is why that everyone needs to read.
It is not an easy story, but in the end
there is definitely a ray of hope and it gives
(44:16):
us different ideas of what home is, of what love
looks like. And I think it's a very valuable book.
So I definitely recommend everyone within the sound of our
voice to pick up a copy of Slumboy. Where would
(44:36):
you immediately point people to purchase your book? Where should
we go?
Speaker 2 (44:42):
You know what? In the USA, It's come out in February.
I'm not even quite sure where you can get it there.
I'm pretty sure in most bookshops you should be able
to get it, okay, But feeling that we have a
backup plan. If you go to my social media, if
(45:04):
you put my name in one ideas, you'll find me
on most social media. And I have linked you know,
there's link trees. Yes, yes, when it gives you all
the Amazon sell it, Barnes and Nobles have it, you know,
most places that have books have it. But it's out
on audiobook. Also, I really I narrate.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
It, do you?
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Oh? Now I have to get it twice.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Okay, So some people, some people you know, bought the
hardback when it first come out, and then they and
then they listened to it and they said, it's completely different,
completely different story.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
What I can imagine because you know the inflections, you
know where where to put the brush strokes, as it were. Yes,
I always prefer to listen to the author narrate their
own work.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
I do, I really do. I love. I love an
audiobook now I do, and yeah, and I love. I
think it's important. And one thing about my book is
it doesn't read like a memoir. I think it reads
like an Also it does.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
There were a couple of times where I had to
stop and go back and make sure that it wasn't
an actual nonfiction work. Yes, so that's a testament to
your writing skill. So the best place to reach you
is via social media if you wanted to learn more
about you, yep, okay, fabulous, And I will make sure
to put all of that information in the notes of
(46:33):
this episode. Uh why oh, Diaz. This has been a
delightful conversation. I am so glad to have met you,
and I have a feeling that this is not the
last time we will speak together. No, because I'll be
in the States by the end of the years. Fabulous
in New York. So okay, you should. It sounds good
(46:57):
to me, and you know, I want to catch up
on all the the new successes that are going to
be coming your way because I know that there will be.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Of course, I can't stop.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Why why would you.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Shift idea?
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Onward and upward?
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Baby?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Thank you so much, Thank you, you have a wonderful day.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yes, lots a lot.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Bye. Full Circle is a Never Skurred Productions podcast hosted
by Charles Tyson Jr. And Martha Madrigal, Produced and edited
by Never Scured Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Jr. And
Martha Madrigal. Our theme in music is by the jingle Berries.
All names, pictures, music, audio, and video clips are registered
(47:47):
trademarks and or copyrights of their respective copyright holders.
Coming to you from the dining room table at East
Barbary Lane. Welcome to a special episode of Full Circle
the podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Junior, and
today I am thrilled to be sitting with our guest.
Juano Diaz is a wonderful author and artist, and his autobiography,
(00:37):
entitled Slumboy, has been called by The Guardian one of
the most moving accounts of non fiction ever written, and
I cannot help but agree. Wano, thank you so much
for joining us. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm good? Thank you so much, Charles. That's some introduction.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
You definitely deserve it. So the first question that I
decided I needed to ask you after reading this turbulent,
tumultuous tale that was alliterated, is how are you doing now?
Tell me good things about yourself now?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yes, I am good. Honestly, I thought as an adult,
I thought to myself, you know what I've lived with
my past. I've lived with my childhood, with the abuse,
the anxiety, the adoptions, the losing people. I really thought
(01:35):
I'd dealt with that until I had to sit down
and write this book. And what really got me was
the early part of my childhood having to sit and
go through three hundred pages of social work records and
write about this little boy's life, my life. It broke me,
(01:56):
and it broke me. Not for me, he me, because
there's still hundreds of thousands of children all over the
world who are going through these kind of things daily hunger,
you know, living in terrible circumstances, sexual abuse, violence, alcoholism.
(02:18):
So yeah, it really broke me having to sort of
go through that, and it made me realize, christ I
have come this lovely far and I've made it so
but I'm good. I'm really good. I'm really loving that
people are reaching out from different backgrounds from I'm hearing
(02:40):
nothing from artists, which is great. I'm hearing a lot
from people who were in care, who were in children's homes,
and social workers and people who work with alcoholics. My
mother was an alcoholic and a street worker. And it's
I'm loving. I'm loving and I'm loving hearing from everyone
(03:04):
and people saying, you know, I went through very similar things.
You know, that's horrible to hear. But just just to
know that you're not alone, is It's nice?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, And I actually I was going to ask you
about the process of writing this book because you had
to revisit so much pain and uncertainty and darkness in
order to tell your story. I mean, what were you
(03:38):
doing in terms of self care? Because I hope you
you had a support system while you were going through
the process of putting this book together.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I always say that art is my support system. I
use as a therapy. I always have. But again, writing
about those early years caught me off guard and at
one point I said, I am going to have to
seek some extra help to speak about this while I'm
(04:12):
writing the writing this And the crazy thing is here
in the UK we are being cut massively and in
every aspect the arts are being cut by the government. Doctors, nurses,
you can't get seen, you know, you can't get a
dental appointment, and the health and the mental health practices
(04:37):
are just overrun and terribly, terribly run as far as
I'm concerned. It took a long time for the appointment
to come up, and by that point I was kind
of like, Okay, I've dealt with it already myself, you know,
But yeah, it's been really What's what's been really healing
(04:59):
is talking about to go out to festivals and talking
about it and people asking questions, because what I noticed
people do is they tend to ask questions two things
they need answers to within themselves. But they'll but they'll
(05:20):
they'll do it through the through the the guys of
asking questions about my story if you know, do you
know what I mean? But anyway, I just I find
that really fascinating. And then yeah, I've just I've met
a huge, huge network of people from all different backgrounds
that have just come and kind of put their arms
(05:41):
around me and gave me a big hug and opened up.
And it's it's been fair. I've really loved the process.
It's been tough, but I've loved it good.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
And I definitely hear you about art being a support
system because I said many many times, if it were
not for the ability to express myself through art, I
don't know that I would be here.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I say the same thing, Charles, I totally hear you.
I hear you, maybe not so much now, but more
when I was going through my teenage years and you're
sort of going through that sort of time where you're
trying going through puberty and there's all these emotions running view.
(06:27):
If I hadn't had the means to express myself, whether
it be you know, putting a wig on and my
mum's fur coat and climbing out of the bedroom window,
which is what I used to do, and not because
anybody could see me, because I would do it in
the middle of the night and I'd walk around this
tiny village in Scotland and it was just that liberating
(06:49):
feeling that I'm doing something fabulous and authentically me and
I'm not conforming to my upbringing, which.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Was part of the point of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And you were doing it for yourself. You weren't doing
it for other people. And sometimes that's the best stuff.
When you're not right, you're not worried about the outside eye,
the outside opinion. Beautiful. I imagine that your art. If
(07:24):
you were to do a side by side comparison of
your art then and your art now, there would be
some drastic differences. There would have to be.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
There are, but there's still a common theme for me.
When I was a little boy, when I was separated
from my mother. To give some context to the listeners,
my mother was a street worker and lady of the night, prostitute,
however you want to call it, I say, a street
(07:54):
worker and she was an addict. She was an alcoholic,
and she had a lot of ment health issues, so
she would leave me and my sisters for long periods
of time and go to work and come home drunk.
And an incident happened where we lost one of the
(08:14):
men that she kind of really attached to, and he
was really good for her in many ways, and we
both saw him drown when I was a little boy,
and it just threw my mum's world upside down and
she just wasn't able to mentally cope physically cope. So
my sisters were put into care, and the social services
(08:38):
tried to kind of keep me with my mum, and
they really could have done more to support her, but
they tried to keep me with her, but they kept
separating us and putting me into care. Well, she tried
to do rehab anyway. Eventually I was put into this
children's home and my mum, because she was drinking, would
(09:00):
stop kind of stopped visiting. She would say she was
going to turn up, and she wouldn't, so I had
no photographs. And by this time, the social workers were
preparing me to be adopted, and they'd given me a
scrap book and they said, Okay, we don't have any
photos of your mum, but draw some photo, draw some images.
(09:22):
And that's where it all came from for me, because
I I kind of I love this woman. She was
very exotic working women. She'd read hair and very high
cheek bones and very Asian eyes, and I would just
draw this face with the big spider leg lashes and
faces became very important from that moment, and then also
(09:43):
when I was adopted, it continued, you know, because it
was the only thing I had to remember my mother's image,
So drawing faces became very very important. And then when
I got to school, I remember to teach photographing our
the class and photocopying it. And back in the day,
(10:08):
the old photocopiers had an ink that when it dried,
you could scratch it with a knife and you could
remove some of the black area. Yeah, so I used
to change my face and sometimes sometimes I look like
my mom, and sometimes I just started to play with
my face like and then I would build a kind
(10:29):
of decopage and collage around it. So it really started
then really really really young.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
So you were trying to reconstruct your past through the deconstruction.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I was trying to find I was trying to find
my identity within this world that i'd been adopted into.
My adoptive father was of the Roman Gypsy community and
my mother was Catholics. They were very very strict, very close,
very private people. So when I asked my parents, you know,
(11:05):
why are my eyes like this? You know, why do
I laugh like this? They had no reference and they
didn't want to know because, as far as they were concerned,
we adopted you. You're one of us. Now, forget the past,
and you know, so it was it was difficult for them.
But because they hadn't training this I'm talking in the eighties,
(11:28):
there was no training for people to adopt. It was literally,
here's a child, to.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Get on with it, girl, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You know. So, so yeah, it was I don't know
where I was going with that.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Well, yeah I did notice that, Yeah, you're your adopted family.
It really did feel like they didn't want you to
even think about your your past that you know, your
life started when they brought you home, that's right, And I.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Think that's really unfair to do that for a child.
You know, I'm an adoptive parent myself, Me and my
partner have a little boy.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
The amazing thing about now, when you go through the
adoption process, you have weeks, months of coursework, months and
months with social workers and learning about the developing brain
of a child and what my parents And I love
my parents that the people who adopted me are my
parents as far as I'm concerned, right, But they could
(12:36):
have they could really could have done with the training
that they're given now, because I think to hold a
child back, which is what I felt happened to me,
I think it's just it's detrimental to the child's development.
You have to be you have to you have to
approach adoption with patients. Curiosity, empathy, play, and some of
(13:02):
those elements were there, but to be shut down and
told let's not speak about that, Let's leave your whole
identity to the side, and now be this person. It's
it's impossible for a child to.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Do that, especially considering at that point in your in
your life and your development as a child, your entire
being is curiosity and wanting to know and who am
I and why am I? So I can't imagine like
stunting that, you know, like trying to to to tamp
(13:37):
down the child's natural sense of curiosity and wonder and learning.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's it's really impossible to do and and and it's
really what caused the rift between me and especially my
adoptive mother. She just couldn't understand why I just couldn't
settle and she didn't have They had no reference to
the none who looked after me in the children's home,
(14:03):
the man who sexually abused me for weeks on end
in a children's home, violently and emotionally. I was told,
I was told not to talk, don't talk about it,
let's go on with it now. And they had no
reference to my mother, who I'd seen in bed with
men and the hunger, and they had nothing of that,
(14:23):
and there was no opportunity to express it, to talk
it through.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
And yeah, that's an interesting point from what I got
in the book. It feels like your introduction to the
concept of sex and sexuality was warped. It was violent, right.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
It was violent, and it was really it was it
was twisted. I'd already seen. I already knew by the
age of five, what what men and women do, because
because I've seen my mother working, she she was she
was so incapacitated at times that you know these this
(15:09):
this is just the way it was. And but then
when I went into care and and other things were
going on, not just with me, with other children who
were involved in these instances, it was really confusing, really
really confusing. And I don't know. I don't know to
(15:33):
this day, I don't know how much my adoptive parents knew.
I don't know if they knew my mother's past. I
don't think they did. I think had had they had
they known maybe things that maybe they could have got
me some therapy early on. And that's and that's why
(15:53):
I used self therapy with the art Goodness.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I had to thank Goodness for art so and I
and I saw how in your teenage years, in your
early adulthood, it felt like a lot of your relationships
were like transactional, Like how how did all of that
(16:20):
affect your adult relationships? If I may ask, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
I doesn't have many adult relationships. I mean, we've all
we've all kind of done stuff. I had a few.
I had a few relationships when I allowed people to
walk over me and I got into stupid situations and stuff.
I think we all have when we're when we're younger
and I've been so honestly, I've been so sort of
(16:50):
laser focused with creating art and photographs in film that
it's kind of over over to call that for a
long long time. And I've had a I mean, I've
had a couple of relationships. The relationship I mean just
now is probably the most like level one.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
But yeah, well I do love that for you. Yeah,
I imagine, you know, I mean, we all go through
that period of wanting to please others, but you had
to go through that for a sense of like stability
and survival, especially with your adoptive parents wanting to be
(17:40):
the kind of person they wanted you to be, which
meant not being who you were. And I felt like,
you know, that was a constant struggle.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It was, but I fought so hard against them.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
You think you were a difficult child.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
They would say that. They would say, my father to
this day would say you were such an arsehole to us,
and in a joking way, right, But I just I
couldn't help it. I had to express myself. I had to,
you know, when I was at that age where I
(18:20):
understood what was what, I didn't give a ship. I
went out in the village and wore high heels and
making these big camp paintings and just being myself. You know,
I wasn't going to conform to working in a scrap
yard and living in a boxing gym, which is what
my dad done. I hated it. It wasn't me, it
(18:43):
wasn't my name, it's not my nature.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
You were so much bigger than the life that you.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I just was. I just have creativity connected to my core,
and in a small village in Scotland, there's no reference
at all for that. So one wonder full thing happened
with satellite TV when that appeared back in the eighties
and we suddenly were exposed to like fashion, TV and
TV and all that visual stuff. I mean I just
(19:12):
drunk all in and went with it. So it's almost
like an explosion waiting to happen, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Okay, favorite supermodel girl, Naomi Campbell. That better have been
the answer.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Also, mav Pessa, Okay, yes, she's sensational.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I love it, I love it. Yeah, it was a
Naomi fan myself.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, stunning, stunning.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Every now and again I whip out my name Naomi
Campbell walked just because.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Hey, why not?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
You have to exactly you know, I dare say that
your life, as recorded in this book is basically advertisement
for it putting and keeping the arts in schools.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Oh my god, I'm so honored that you said that.
I would love to get this book into schools and
let the teachers read it. Oh, you're right. It's like
it's like the schools need the arts, they need it. Listen,
(20:26):
what was the first thing that people went to when
the pandemic hit music?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Art, TV, video visual.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Because that was comfort.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
It is so important. Without art, life just shit.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And it's always the first thing to get cut. Yeah, yeah,
as if it's not an essential part of life.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I honestly can't remember the last time I had to
do a times table. I mean really well, some of
the stuff we got taught at school, and in my
mad school was horrific. The teachers were bullies, the assholes,
and you know, I had teachers that call me faggot,
you know, And it was terrible, really terrible. And I'm
(21:21):
lucky that we had an amazing art department. And I
had one teacher that I just adore. Her name's Norma,
and she's a very good friend of mine still, And
if I hadn't had this woman, in my life. I
don't know if I'd be here. Honestly, I really don't
know if I'd be here. I was being I was
(21:42):
at a period in my childhood thirteen fourteen, fifteen where
I was so unhappy and nobody I had, nobody to
speak to, nobody who understood how important keytivity was. And
she did and she was that one person, and she
took me and really mothered me in a way that
(22:04):
I really needed. And it wasn't it wasn't all about
her being an art teacher. It was this sort of
patience and curiosity and empathy that came from her. But
it was just she is just I love her so much,
and I think we're lucky when we're young and we
(22:26):
have that person, and not everyone gets that opportunity to
have that person. If I hadn't had her, I would
not be doing what I'm doing today.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I believe it. We need someone to see us.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
She was the first person in all my childhood who
allowed me to talk about my adoption. I'm crazy, don't
know family members, it was all kept. She was the
first person who said, let's explore it in your work.
You know how, how how liberating for me to have.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
That as a definitely. And so, what what is your
favorite medium to work in?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I honestly don't have a favorite. I love technology. I'm
a really early photoshop person, so I loved I love
I love digital, and I yeah, yeah, is going a
bit crazy right now, but some of some of it's extraordinary.
(23:41):
I mean, I can take an old black and white
photograph of me and bring it to life and I could.
I could literally make a movie from a photograph, and
I love that. I love that it's becoming so accessible.
Some of it's completely ridiculous, but if the tools are
used properly, they can they can work. But one thing
(24:04):
I've loved a lot since I've written the book is
I've just gone back to painting, just painting with oils,
and I'm loving it and loving.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
That because that's like the most organic and for lack
of a better primal.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, it's the most authentic. It's the most authentic. There's
no there's no taking a photograph of a flower outside
to then cut it up and paste on something online
on the computer. You have to you have to know
what you're doing with paintbrush.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And right because there's no undo button with the paintbrush.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
There's no one too, So I'm loving I'm loving painting
just now. I have a studio here and it's fantastic
space and it's it's a new space for me and
it's very high ceilings, so I'm like getting all the
big ca I'm just like playing.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I love it. I love it and seeing you come
out on the other side as this strong creative person,
it makes me happy and it gives me hope for
so many of the other people out there who have
(25:25):
trouble passed. And you know, in addition to to visual arts,
you you're an author, what besides besides the book? Like,
is there a plan for a movie of the book?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
In your head.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I honestly can't say too much because I'm literally dealing
with it right now and yeah, but yeah, it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
That's okay. I'm glad the answer is yes. That's exciting, fabulous, fabulous, fabulist.
So do you have you mentioned you know, a relationship
with music. Is there a soundtrack that you like to
have going when you're working?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Oh my god, everything by Cape Bush. Yeah, literally literally
everything by Capish. And I'm a late comer to Cape Bush.
I only kind of hurt her. Well, I mean, I
knew of her, but I didn't really listen until I
met my partner nine years ago. And now it's like
(26:40):
I need Cape bish On to paint. But I also
listen to a lot of percussion. I like Glockenspiel and
I like like, I like a lot of percussions. My friend,
she's called Dame Evelyn Glenney. She's an incredible percussionist. And
we're going to be doinging Slumboy with Alan Cumming at
(27:04):
his at pitt Lockery Festival Theater in January next year.
So I'm going to be reading parts of Slumboy while
Evelyn does this very haunting percussion. And So I listened
to a lot of a lot of different music.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
That's amazing. Yeah, I love it. What was your soundtrack
when you were writing?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Okay? So I listened to a lot of Anthony and
the Johnson's just to get the you know, to get
that vibe. Especially in the early years. I listened to
some of Grace's Grace Jones's Hurricane album. She kindly gave
(27:49):
me the short quote from I'm Crying Mother's Tears, which
is at the start of the book that song in
particular is just everything I feel about that book, because
the song is saying, you know, I'm I'm I'm grown
(28:10):
enough to sort of cry my mother's tears. So it's
kind of saying I'm I'm I'm old enough to understand
what my mother went through, you know. So she yeah.
So when I said, Grace, can I can I use
this little snippets. I'd love people to just see it
and then maybe play it and listen to it after
(28:31):
they've read the book, they'll understand this this record and
she's like, yes, I love that.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Look at you, Okay, Alan coming and Grace Jones. That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I love Alan. He's you know what I feel. I
feel very protective of them me too, actually, fellow Scott,
but most importantly, he's a fellow Fawn. It's a fellow.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
True. This is true, and that's one of the things
we love about him so much.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
He's adorable.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Really. I love that you mentioned in the book that
your basically your addiction is art, and that's the healthiest
addiction I can think of.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Hey, it could have been so many other things. Exactly
here we are and yeah, I smoke, that's an addiction.
But I can't drink. You know, my mother is an alcoholic.
I'm not into taking drugs. I like to know where
my friend is right. But yeah, I couldn't live without creativity.
(29:51):
And I get I get this thing where if I
have something in my mind, I can't get to the
studio to work on it. It starts to drive me.
It starts to like take me right, you know, it
starts to like I need to I need to get
it out. I need so if I can't get to
stud I need to get something to draw it onto.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Mm hmm, I I feel you on that. I definitely do.
You have a wonderful use of language in the way
that you you wrote this book? Where did you you
obviously have a love of words you were Were you
(30:29):
a voracious reader as well?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
No? Never, I hadn't. I hadn't. I don't think I'd
read a full book in my life.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Really.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yes, I came to reading very very late.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
And I mean to understand, I don't.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I wrote a screenplay actually, and it was based on
a part of the book you have in front of you, someboy,
but I kind of I kind of fabricated it in
made the made the characters not me, So that I
could hide behind these characters. And I put it to
(31:08):
Alan coming and he was like, this is fantastic. Let's
get it made. And we both I was living in
New York at the time, and we both came back
to Scotland and I ended up falling in love with
my partner here and adopting a little boy. And then
I through the process of trying to rework this piece
(31:32):
that i'd written, someboy appeared and I was like, let
me just tell my truth instead of trying to write
this other thing. And but no, I approach writing very
much in the same way that I would with painting
that I find them very very similar. You're just creating
a visual with words. But I also come from the
(31:56):
Gypsy culture where we have we speak English, but we
also my family also speak what's what's known as scott
Scottish Aroma Can't, which is their own language, and they're big,
big storytellers as well. So I'm used to hearing story
(32:19):
and I'm used to hearing narrative, especially from my grandmother,
and I would hear it in both languages, so I
would hear it and my family speak Scottish English, but
we also speak the Scots Roma can't so, I guess
words and stories are always been a big part of
(32:39):
my life. Even though I didn't read. I read. I
would read art books. I would I would look through
a biography of an artist and look at all the
the details. But I wouldn't. I'd never sat down and
read a novel until I finished, until I finished slumboy okay,
(33:01):
And I only I only picked them up because I
had to. I started to be introduced to other authors,
and but it's been fantastic. I've I've opened this whole
new world to myself. You know.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I love that and it's of your own creation.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yes, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
That is what one of the warmer moments in in
the book is when you were introduced to the Romanic culture.
It felt like to me coming home for you.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Does that sound accurate?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, definitely. I mean that's although the culture was very
hard and very private, and the men had certain expectations
put up on them to be, you know, real men.
You go to your box, right, and you go and
(34:05):
you work in the family scrap yard, which my dad owned.
And it's a very hard world. And I found the
softness in the females of the family, particularly my father's mother,
my granny. I just adored she. She was a clearvoyant women.
(34:27):
So she would do tarer cars, tea leaves and that's
how they made their money when they traveled around. My
family were settled in a property and a house, but
when they were when my dad was born, he was
born in a wagon and they traveled around. And that's
how my granny, my grandmother made money. She what we
(34:49):
call darking, which is clairvoyance. And and I I she
loved me like she loved her own people. There was
no separation. You know. She'd take me and cuddle me
and tell me stories and singing songs. And then yeah,
that was that's coming home to any child.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
You know, that's the element that I love. Basically, they
saw you and just went mine.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yes, it really is, and that's that's that's incredible. I
really owe I owe them a lot because they instilled
in me a lot of good morals. Something I wanted
to do with Slumboy was show what these people are
actually like, because they get a real bad rap, especially
here in the UK in the media we see traveling
(35:43):
gypsy people being completely exploited on television. You know, they
have I think it's my big fat Gypsy Weddings TV show.
It's awful.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
It's just awful, And that doesn't sound like it would
be any good at all.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
It's just trash. It's that kind of trash TV where they,
you know, like when they you know, when they show
these harder people, you just exploit these poor mentally mentally
people or challenge people. It's just very similar here in
UK towards the traveling community. So I just wanted to
be as honest as I couldn't say that is not
(36:17):
that is not what I experienced with these people. Yeah,
it's hard, and yeah you would expected to have be
a man's man and be very private and live in
the gypsy way. But there was also really wonderful culture
two to be embraced by. So I love it.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So your queer identity was a very important part of
the book and of course of your life. Basically, I
guess tell me about being a spot of color in
a gray world.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I mean, what else can I be? You know, we
are so lucky in so many ways that we don't
live in other countries where we've been lynched. M m
yea be lynched even for having a couple of tattoos
(37:19):
and having fain glasses that you're wearing. You know, we
would we wouldn't be able to we wouldn't be able
to breathe.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
And lynched if we're lucky. Oh, you know, just.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
So sad and in so many ways, I feel like
we're going backwards fast and that frightens me. And I
think it frightens me more that I have a child
that I'm raising and I worry about what kind of
world he's going into. And and when I look back
(37:55):
at my own childhood, although there's been lots of hard, hardly,
I feel really lucky, really lucky that we're able to
be ourself, right. I wouldn't change it for the world.
I mean, I can imagine being anything else than a
(38:19):
queer person, right. Indeed, indeed, I love it. I love
my colors.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Exactly. And that's the thing that so many people don't understand.
Like we bring color to the world, we bring magic
to the world. So much of what makes the beautiful
tapestry of our society, of our culture, both locally and globally,
(38:48):
it comes from us. It just does. That's just facts.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Without us, the world would be a grim gray you know, nilong, right,
flat you know.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Place there would be no texture. Everyone's hair would be
just flat and lifeless, and they wouldn't have a frame
of reference to want anything better.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
That's true. It's crazy, it's true.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
It is true. And I do love. I love that
you're a daddy. Now, so what lessons from your own
upbringing do you think you will choose to pass on
to your own kid.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I'm for saying that. I have him actor John Leguizamo
in my head where he's in drag and he's doing
one of his characters that he done on stage. I
think it's a show he done Cold Spicorama.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, And he.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Says, you hate your own mother until you become her,
and then you're with the deepest respect. And it's true.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I used to think, cause you know, my adoptive mother.
I used to because she was so hard on me.
Why didn't she just let me have that gum and hm,
that bubble gum? And why didn't she just let me
be fabulous? And and then you and then you have
a child too to raise, and and and you see
(40:34):
how difficult it is. But the one, the one thing
I have is that I have the same experience that
my child had. I'm adopted. He's adopted, so I come
at it with a really different angle. I can answer
all those questions that my parents couldn't answer for me,
which were detrimental, really right, But I love being the
(40:59):
dad's It's just the best thing. And he's he's so musical,
and then I just love watching him create. It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
How old is he?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
He's nine?
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Oh, I love that age. I taught kids for twenty years,
so like, I know what nine looks like.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Well, he came into a life when he was four,
and you know it's not you know, it's not a
my story to tell, but he came from a really
difficult start also, and it's just I'm so proud of
(41:44):
the little man he is becoming.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
And the thing about four year old, there's still that's
the age, like there's still not afraid to love like openly.
So the so if the fact that you got him
at that point and move forward with a loving, nurturing
environment is perfection.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yes, but it's one of the amazing one of the
amazing things I learned when I was going through the
adoption process and doing all the course work with psychologists
and all these doctors is that you learn a lot
about the developing brain of a child. And when a
child goes through things that we went I went through.
My children went through starvation and abuse and neglect, they
(42:31):
damage the brain. They physically damaged the brain, so the
child does have an amount of a stump and learning
almost And what's incredible is that love, the love of aarent,
rebuilds and refires the neurons in the brain and heals
(42:53):
the brain. It's just, I mean, I gets saying it.
That for me is to hear that. When I heard that,
it was so it was so grindbreaking because it put
everything into context for why I behaved the way I
did as a child, why my parents chose the decisions,
(43:15):
and the way they wanted to pay me because they
paid they loved me, you know, they showed me love,
physical love, but it was tough love, but it was
still secure love. And then, yeah, I just I make
sure my child does plenty of the good stuff.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
I love that. And you get to heal certain parts
of yourself through loving him.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yes, he has healed me more than anything has healed me,
having this, having this experience.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
I love that for you.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Yeah, I really do.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
So your story is why that everyone needs to read.
It is not an easy story, but in the end
there is definitely a ray of hope and it gives
(44:16):
us different ideas of what home is, of what love
looks like. And I think it's a very valuable book.
So I definitely recommend everyone within the sound of our
voice to pick up a copy of Slumboy. Where would
(44:36):
you immediately point people to purchase your book? Where should
we go?
Speaker 2 (44:42):
You know what? In the USA, It's come out in February.
I'm not even quite sure where you can get it there.
I'm pretty sure in most bookshops you should be able
to get it, okay, But feeling that we have a
backup plan. If you go to my social media, if
(45:04):
you put my name in one ideas, you'll find me
on most social media. And I have linked you know,
there's link trees. Yes, yes, when it gives you all
the Amazon sell it, Barnes and Nobles have it, you know,
most places that have books have it. But it's out
on audiobook. Also, I really I narrate.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
It, do you?
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Oh? Now I have to get it twice.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Okay, So some people, some people you know, bought the
hardback when it first come out, and then they and
then they listened to it and they said, it's completely different,
completely different story.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
What I can imagine because you know the inflections, you
know where where to put the brush strokes, as it were. Yes,
I always prefer to listen to the author narrate their
own work.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
I do, I really do. I love. I love an
audiobook now I do, and yeah, and I love. I
think it's important. And one thing about my book is
it doesn't read like a memoir. I think it reads
like an Also it does.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
There were a couple of times where I had to
stop and go back and make sure that it wasn't
an actual nonfiction work. Yes, so that's a testament to
your writing skill. So the best place to reach you
is via social media if you wanted to learn more
about you, yep, okay, fabulous, And I will make sure
to put all of that information in the notes of
(46:33):
this episode. Uh why oh, Diaz. This has been a
delightful conversation. I am so glad to have met you,
and I have a feeling that this is not the
last time we will speak together. No, because I'll be
in the States by the end of the years. Fabulous
in New York. So okay, you should. It sounds good
(46:57):
to me, and you know, I want to catch up
on all the the new successes that are going to
be coming your way because I know that there will be.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Of course, I can't stop.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Why why would you.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Shift idea?
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Onward and upward?
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Baby?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Thank you so much, Thank you, you have a wonderful day.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yes, lots a lot.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Bye. Full Circle is a Never Skurred Productions podcast hosted
by Charles Tyson Jr. And Martha Madrigal, Produced and edited
by Never Scured Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Jr. And
Martha Madrigal. Our theme in music is by the jingle Berries.
All names, pictures, music, audio, and video clips are registered
(47:47):
trademarks and or copyrights of their respective copyright holders.
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