June 13, 2025 • 59 mins
In this episode, Charles sat down with author, filmmaker, and drag artist Kyle Casey Chu, aka Panda Dulce.
They discuss the themes of queer identity, community support, and the importance of finding one's tribe in her debut middle-grade novel, The Queen Bees of Tybee County.
They also discuss the impact of drag as a form of self-discovery, the intersections of literature, identity, and representation, the need for authentic representation in media, and much more!
LEARN MORE ABOUT Kyle Casey Chu
GET YOUR COPY OF "The Queen Bees Of Tybee County"
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Visit our Linktree
-- Please Subscribe and Give Us A Review (5 stars or more, preferably!)
SUPPORT US ON PATREON
Check out Medway Pride Radio
They discuss the themes of queer identity, community support, and the importance of finding one's tribe in her debut middle-grade novel, The Queen Bees of Tybee County.
They also discuss the impact of drag as a form of self-discovery, the intersections of literature, identity, and representation, the need for authentic representation in media, and much more!
LEARN MORE ABOUT Kyle Casey Chu
GET YOUR COPY OF "The Queen Bees Of Tybee County"
--
Visit our Linktree
-- Please Subscribe and Give Us A Review (5 stars or more, preferably!)
SUPPORT US ON PATREON
Check out Medway Pride Radio
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Coming to you from the dining room table at East
Barbary Lane, we bring you a special episode of Full
Circle the Podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Jr.
And I am thrilled to be sitting with our guest today.
We have a wonderful artist, author, performer and all around
(00:39):
fierce diva. She has written a wonderful book called The
Queen Bees of Tybee County. Kyle Casey Chu, Welcome to
the Full Circle Table.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Thank you so much for that illustrious open It is
a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I am so glad to sit here with you because
I just finished the book. First of all, the cover
is so adorable, great.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Don't you love it? I do?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And you know I'm looking at I was looking at
the cover art after I finished the book, and I
caught all the little references in the story in the
art work.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I was like, Okay, that's just so clever. Some work
of Jay Yang, who is such an angel and genius.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Wonderful work.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So yeah, this book is a delightful read.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And I was telling Martha, was like, every time I
sit down and open this book, I just inhale fifty
pages and don't realize what happened.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I love to hear that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So, first of all, tell me a little bit about
what The Queen Bees of Tybee County is about.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Absolutely, so, Hello, I am Kyle Casey to aka panthera
do'l say. I am a writer, a filmmaker, and one
of the founding queens of Drag Story Hour, which I
definitely want to. Oh, you should come. It's a good time.
They're space panning their bubbles. Sometimes there's pizza. I feel
look abe and The Queen Beees of Tybee County is
(02:15):
my debut middle grade novel, and it is about Derek
Cham who is a seventh grade Chinese American basketball star
who is shipped off to his grandma's house in rural Georgia,
where he explores his square identity, his love for drag,
and his Chinese a Chinese American heritage through participating in
(02:38):
a local pageant.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
There you go, And that is the the encapsulated version.
But is so it's such a wild journey, and it's
such a heartwarming journey and relatable. I think any queer
person can relate to so many elements of this story.
(03:01):
So how much of your personal history is in this?
In Derek in any of the characters.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
So I wanted to give my character an experience that
I had and experience that I didn't have. And so
a lot of my own childhood and upbringing is infused
into the story through the adult figures who encourage me
to read and encourage me to be fabulous and explore makeup,
as well as a playing basketball, which is something that
(03:32):
I haven't done and a skill set that I actually
don't have. And so I find a lot of my
own father and Derek's father. I find a lot of
the English teachers who nurtured me in my creative voice,
and Claudia and bits my mom and my grandma as well.
So it's been an analcama, but both I would say.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I love it, and I love how warm. Even though
Derek encounters some adversity, whether it be homophobia or racism
or just you know, being an outsider in general, there's
that warm circle that surrounds him, be it family or
(04:17):
chosen family. And is that also something that you've had
growing up and becoming the wonderful person that we see
in front of us.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh, gosh, you flatter me, yes, I would say, so.
So I game I came out very early on in
the seventh grade, and this was in the early aughts.
I know, I was one of the only great kids
at school, and overnight I lost my whole friend's circle.
It was a dark chapter. I had to reinvent myself,
(04:50):
refine myself, find a new circul circle. And it was
earth chattering for me as a twelve year old. And
what saved me from that was being able to throw
myself into the creative arts. At the time, it was music,
and it was writing a novel that was processing my career,
identity and my budding feelings for my best friend, which
is such a queer like tale as old as time,
(05:13):
and finding community and a lot of fellow artists as well.
And I think ever since finding this passion of support,
I've never turned away. And so you know, even today,
a lot of my closest friends are writers, actors, musicians
who to have found their pass of joy and healing
through art.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I love it. Yeah, you have to surround yourself with
artists because otherwise your world has no color.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It's true, it may play forth, living and rich. I'm
actually in New York City right now because we're premiering
a film at NewFest. The LGBTQ Festival Film Festival in
New York, and we've made so many good friends just
through sharing really vulnerable aspects of ourselves. And it's nice
to be able to skip over this I'll talk of
things and really get to know somebody through a really
(06:03):
personal story that they poured themselves into.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I love that's right, because you're a filmmaker as well.
Films do you make if you had to put a
label on it totally?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
You know, that's a good question. I should probably like
practice what I answer this with. But right now, I
focus a lot of my stories on queer and trans
Asian Americans and on soft people who are put in
hard situations. And so the first short that I came
up with is called After what Happened at the Library,
(06:35):
and it's auto fiction, so it's based on my experience
in twenty twenty two when the Proud Boys stormed my
drive Story Hour in San Lorenzo. I'm fair shouting transphobic
hate speech and I had to lock myself in the
back until the authorities arrived. It was national news, international news,
and it's about the direct aftermath of that at Variety,
(06:58):
and so that's in the Film Festival circuit right now.
And then I'm here at Newsaster for Betty Saint Clair,
which is about a Chinese American drag queen who throws
a drag performance at a senior citizen center and her
yay or grandpa is in the audience, and so she
has to decide whether to go on and and how
she reveals her true self or not.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, for one thing. For one thing,
I love your description soft people. Is it soft people
that go through hard times?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Is that what you said?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, that's beautiful. That's that's a tagline right there.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Thank you, thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
That well, you are one of the the founding queens
uh your your Uh what am I trying to say?
Your artistic counter part, Panda Doulce, you are one of
the founding queens of Drag story Time, right, It's true,
which is thank you for your service.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Chall So, because of your experience dealing with the Proud
Boys and Drag Story Time, you definitely have h first
person experience with triumphing over adversity, which is, you know,
an integral part of being a queer person in America,
(08:25):
especially right now. And you're like an authority on in
that area, I would say.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Thank you. Yeah, I think I think a lot of
any resilience that I have I owe to my community.
Which is such a queer answer, right, but it's real
for a reason. Like after it happens, I was just
inundated with press and journalists asking me over and over
(08:54):
to to just relive it in a really expreciating way,
and like asking for all these details and all the
It felt like it felt like I was being quartered into,
being triggered so that they could have that sound by
it for what they wanted the story to be, right
as well as just you know, like trauma dumps and
love letters and death threats and Transphoba hate and and
(09:18):
so in the aftermath, I couldn't really make any decisions
in my life, Like my executive functioning was shot. I
couldn't get out of bed. I couldn't even order food.
I was just so overwhelmed. And and my friend stepped
up in a really big way. And queer dreads people
from across the world, Like I got letters from like
(09:41):
Norway and Sweeten and people sending me like Tea and
Crystal and like you know, organizing meal trains and coming
to cook like larm for me, like Thai food and
just volunteering to come watch movies with me. And it
kind of clear or if I had what pride meant
(10:01):
for me, that it's less about the ostentatious floats and
it's more about this network of people who we've cultivated together.
And I thought that was a really beautiful thing. And
I can't be a lot of help in the future.
That is it.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
That's it, you know, it's community, like community, chosen family,
coming together through the hard times, just being there for
one another. That is what pride is about. You know.
I do enjoy a good go go boy and some
(10:37):
skimpy underwear shaken on a float every now and again.
But at the heart of it, you know, that's really
what it is. And that's what I keep trying to
get our cishead counterparts to understand. You know, everyone wants
to reduce being queer to sex. It's always, well, you know,
(11:03):
what goes on in the bedroom shouln't be blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah. My argument is always, oh,
so you stop being straight the moment after you come.
Is that how this works? You know, It's like it's
it's about community, and it's a lot of people take
that for granted because they've never really had to overcome anything,
(11:25):
you know what I mean. So yours is a powerful
story and a powerful message. And again I thank you
for you know, doing what you've done and going through
what you've gone through, because it's a cornerstone of what
it means to be LGBTQ in America.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Thanks so much much. And honestly, I really quod that
you brought that up, because I don't know. I was
very critical of a lot of the queer media and
culture that I have consumers in high school, and this
was around the time that Prop eight was up, and
it seems that our flagship issue as a community was
(12:07):
whether or not we could get married. And I understand
that's a very personal decision and very important to a
lot of people. I don't necessarily believe in marriage for myself,
but often our priorities and our focuses as the community
are dictated by those at the top, and those at
the top tend to be to stay white men. And
(12:28):
you see this reflected in the media that we have.
You see this reflected in the events that are the
most resourced for pride, and it doesn't speak for everyone,
and so I think that's why supporting queer trans literature
from queer transfers of color is important to just add
to the tapestry of who we are and to remind
(12:50):
us that there are our voices that are fighting to
get a mode to come of the same amount of
spotlight and that very much deserve it.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Very much so. And I also appreciate that you bring
to the table your experiences as an Asian American well
and as an Asian American period and as an Asian
American queer person, because those are stories that don't get
told as often, especially when we talk about, like say, racism,
(13:26):
the story tends to focus on white versus black because
you know, for obvious reasons, but there's so much of
a tapestry under the bipoc umbrella that we don't delve
into that much. And admittedly, like I try to seek
(13:48):
out things that are centered around Asian and Asian American stories,
but it doesn't happen near as much as it should.
So I was so grateful that your book came into
my life.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I guess so much. Yeah, I think that black and
white paradigms and binaries in general are such a a
straight constructs because I don't know. I feel like as
group people like we know that life exists on a
spectrum and identities exist on a spectrum, and there's more
(14:26):
to the world than the binaristic polar opposites on that.
I think that's what I'm kind of beautiful about who
we are and how we can grow and change and
experiments and not be so fixated or fixed in our
conception of self in the world. And I hope that's
something that I get through, but I think you do.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Like I love how there are definitely, uh little cultural moments, images, words,
food that are just woven through the story and it's just,
you know, it's just part of the experience of Derek.
(15:11):
It's beautiful. One thing I did want to ask you,
you made a point in the Book of Everyone Who
Is All that I believe all the characters in the
book that are LGBTQ saying queer as opposed to gay.
That felt like a very definitive choice. Why did you
(15:32):
make that choice?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I mean, why not? But why?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So it's interesting because I identify as a millennial, and
I imagine that the vast majority of people who are
going to pick up this book, are going to be Jenalfa,
which is coming from the terms with and identity in
a different way. And so I wanted to write something
that was true to me and we'll also speak to
(16:00):
that generation. And I think the best way to do
that is to have a human centered story and that's
what makes things timeless. But are you familiar with the
phrase like not gay as unhappy, but queer as an
f you?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yes, yes, yes I am.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Can I say that on here? Can we can we
do real love?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
You can curse, you can say trow.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So it's really just like embrace, adopting and embracing that ethos,
And that's kind of a punk rock thing of, you know,
one's identity not just being a similationist and acceptable and respectable,
but fundamentally at odds with everything around you. And that
is the predicament that Derek finds himself in when he
(16:49):
is in the small town where he doesn't know anybody.
He's coming to the terms with himself, coming to an
understanding of who he is and who he is capable
of becoming, and boldly decides that he needs to go
in the direction that is true. And so the reason
why I chose queer is because I feel like it
speaks to this theme and that each of the characters
(17:11):
in their own way embodies this based on their timeline
or the plot head of album. If that makes sense, it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Does, And that definitely does make sense because queer is
definitely more of an all encompassing term because you know,
depending on what person is reading this book and where
they fall on the spectrum, they can identify no matter
(17:44):
where they are because you use the word queer because
you know, if you had chosen the word gay, what
if they're not gay? What if they're by what if that?
You know what I'm saying. So I did appreciate that choice.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, probably any universe, like you said, I feel you.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, I dig it. And again it's challenging that damned
binary which people have.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Such a problem with.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Well, it's funny because I feel like binary is okay.
So I know, I said, straight people created it. It's true,
and it's not true because because I feel like binaristic
thinking and black and white thinking comes from like cave
days where it's like you walk past a cave and
you look in and it's dark and it looks scary,
(18:33):
and you're like, am I gonna die there? Or am
I going to survive in there? And it's not simple
like do I go in or do I leave? And like, right,
that is the sort of thinking that we regress to
when we think about these things sometimes is it good
that or is it bad? Is that you know, evil
or whatever? And I feel like a lot of our
work sometimes so really impact that and to complicate that
(18:58):
and to get used to the ambiguity of all and
that might be what leads us to having a sort
of quiet beast with ourselves.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
You know, that's interesting, Like I never really thought of
the binary as a defense mechanism. That's interesting. And so
the irony of that then is that once you can
embrace the spectrum, there's a level of comfort that comes
(19:30):
with that, comfort with oneself, comfort with the world around you,
and then irony again, how threatening that is to people
that exist in the binary.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right, I feel like there's just it's kind of an
exposure therapy tanking, because it's like the more the white
spectrum from people that you're introduced to, a white spectrum
of stories of different walks of life, the more taller
even I hate that word, it's like, yeah, they can
tolerate you, but the more open than you are to
(20:06):
hearing somebody out or just receptive that you might be
or where they come from. And it's like all, I
think a lot of xenophobia just comes from just but
like lack of exposure to and therefore a lack of
empathy on other people who they haven't met.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Right, which I mean, that's such a foreign thing to
me because because I've been lucky, because pretty much my
entire life, I've been surrounded by so many different kinds
of people. And like my friend group from grade school
(20:43):
through college was like the United Colors of Benatton, you know,
the white ones and the black ones and the brown
ones and the brown and the Beisian. You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Don't people the same way. It's like hard for me
to relate to that, like all I mean, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
But you know, they're it. And it still boggles my
mind in twenty twenty five that there are some white
folks walking around that can and have live their entire
life up to this point surrounded by nothing but white people. Say,
how is that even possible? Like physically possible? At this point?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I mean, I feel like it's something I've got a
lot of people aspire to, Like you think about people
who get richer and what they want to do. They
want to get their own place that's isolated from everyone else.
They want to get a private driver with tinted windows
so they're separated, and you know, people aspire for this
level of insulation. It's just it's just not a realistic
(21:49):
way to live, and it's not how I want to
live my life. I want to be integrated into the
the textures of the world. So I don't know. I
think every book is kind of a gateway to invite
you to be a part of the world in a
way that makes sense for everyone here here.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I love it. I love it. So one of the
main components of the story is Derek discovers not only
his queer identity, but his love of drag. And you know,
you have your your your artistic persona of Panda Dulce.
(22:34):
How much of a parallel is there between your discovery
of drag and the embracing of the feminine. How much
of a parallels that between you and Derek.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I feel like there's a lot one of the ways
that I was introduced to drag because I have been
doing that my whole life. When I was little, I
would walk around with this little face paint book that
had a palette of of you know, just different colors,
primary colors. And in middle school I would just make
(23:07):
up with my friends at sepembers. We laugh about it.
And in high school I was in some plays and
then you know, got really serious about it as an adult.
But I think the through line throughout all of this
was a sense of play and wonder and also the
power in the shop value of being seen and unmistakably
seen and acknowledge. I feel like as growing up Asian American,
(23:33):
there's this sort of invisibility that many of us may experience,
which is being kind of regarded as dismissable or disposable
or just kind of like an NPC. And this this
was just a kind of dynamic that I found a
lot We're always suspected growing up. But I grew up
(23:54):
in San Francisco, which has a big Asian Recan population,
but felt very sharply when I went to these because
first school and was in a predominantly UHDE environment, Like
it almost felt like I was invisible most of the
time and then highly visible at other times, like when
certain works came up and they're like, oh, can you
speak on behalf of an entire racial group, Kyle, So
(24:18):
kind of having this lack of control over one's visibility
and therefore a lack of dignity and a sort of
objectification of one's experience. I wanted to talk about that
and sort of play with those ideas in terms of
how Derek discovers himself and learns to kind of a
reclaim a sense of control and authorship over that and
(24:41):
gets to decide for him himself when he gets to
dazzle and shy and when he has quieter moments with
his friends. And I don't know, I think about pageant
was a perfect venue for that, Oh definitely.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
And I love the drag name that he chose from
so Be Daring. It's just like, you know, message.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And I don't want to put any spoilers on there,
but there's definitely a personal reason for that collection as well.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And I love I love the relationship that Derek has
with his best friend JJ, and I love how they
have this thing where this is going to be the
summer of This is gonna be the summer of X
y Z and and this particular summer was the summer
of Yes, and I'm like, we should all have a
summer of yes and an autumn of yes and a
(25:37):
winter yes.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, thank you for that. I had to restrain myself
from calling it summer of Yes with an A because
I was just like that. But I think a lot
of them came actually because this book was greenlight. Like
right after the first you're in the pandemic and we
were all, you know, isolated. It not to throw you
(26:02):
back into the into that, but I feel like afterwards,
when everyone started picking their heads out and gathering in
public again, we all became a little awkward because we've
been isolated for so long, and I was like, oh yeah,
and like even some night life at and events, I
haven't really bounced back from that. And for me, I
(26:24):
was like, I craved connection, and I craved.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Mug I'm sorry anyway, I craved connection and then I
craved community, and I decided that when people asked me
to do things, I would always say yes, and it's
led to a lot of great friendships post Panini, and
I want to do the same for Derek, So I
love it.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, that's for real. I've that time was a moment
of intense growth for a lot of people, especially folks
in our community, but it also broke some folks, you know,
(27:07):
And it's like at the same time, it's it's interesting,
like at the same time that so many people are
discovering themselves, so many other people are like finding ways
to other everyone else. It's that that dichotomy is just
(27:29):
it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, you know, before I came out, I was pretty homophobic,
and I remember I would call people a fag and
I would say, oh, that looks gay, right, And it's
like contrast provides definition in the sense that you know,
(27:54):
you know that you are straight because you are not gay,
and because you are not gay, you are straight. Right,
So if you call everyone else, that makes you not
that way for me.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
But that's that's that's how that works.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I don't know. So I think there's a lot of
insight into homophobia, and that's why I like Republicans are
shown through psychological tests to respond the most to like
queer porn. Ah. I don't know, that's the whole can
of worms that we don't have to go to another
podcast episode. But but you know, usually when people have transphobia,
(28:37):
have like harbor homophog use it. It usually points to
some work that needs to be done that I doubt
they'll embark on, but hope they do.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
As I'm fond of saying, the squeaky wheel wants to
get bent over in greeceed. No, but but yeah, that's true.
Like it internalized homophobia, internalized transphobia. It's two pronged one. Obviously,
(29:13):
it's a product of the narrative that we've been force
fed our entire lives through religion, full stop period. I
don't have to give another example, but you know, it's
also a defense mechanism, especially when you're a kid like
I get it, and you have to have a certain
level of introspection to come out on the other side.
(29:39):
And I think that's where we lose a lot of people,
because introspection is not a does not appear to be
a very popular trait amongst people if you go by
what you see on the.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Daily right, I think our world, and mediated through capitalism,
is predicated on distraction and yes speaking, validation, whether it's
through being beautiful or accomplished, or buying a makeup to
(30:15):
look a certain way, social media and you know, the
zombie state of Storling and all. Because I don't know.
I think critical thinking and self awareness and reflect them
could threaten the entire fabric, and therefore it's reviled and
(30:37):
the lion and I don't know. And it's funny that
books are getting bambacked right now, because what do books
are encourage but creativity and critical thinking?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Oh exactly. Knowledge equals power, and that is one thing
they do not want us to have, is power, because
and knowledge. Because if we spend so much time down
here on the ground fighting amongst each other, we won't
take the time to stop and look up at the
(31:11):
ones who have like sown the seeds of descent, and
you know, there's way more of us than there are
of them, And yeah, it's best to keep us busy.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
That's true. I forget who the theorist is who put
it this way, but they said, how many of the
guards do you need for a prison of a billion?
And they said you only if they are all fighting
at each other, you only need one. Is that one
guard is just watching it at all, in bold and
(31:42):
their job is done for them exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
And that's why I am so glad that we have
books like yours, because you know, I feel like and
we've said this on the podcast several times, like four
and and Fahrenheit for fifty one and The Handmaid's Tale
(32:07):
and Brave New World. We're supposed to be horrible warnings,
not a freaking how to guide, you know. It's like,
are people not reading? I feel like, because yeah, if
we're not encouraged to read, then we won't encounter these books,
and then we won't go hmmm, this is like the
playbook that we're going through. So yeah, it's it's so
(32:32):
the apocalypse looks so much cooler in the brochure, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
What it's art life too closely. It's a different story,
you know, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
So yeah, that's why I'm so glad that we have
voices like yours.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Thank careful.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So here's a question that I always ask my author
and authorist guests. I'm a huge fan of music and
using music as a background element when I create, is
do you have a soundtrack when you write? And if so,
what was the soundtrack to the writing of this book.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, that's so funny that you asked that, because it
I kind of want on a journey with those. At first,
I was just listening to low fi beats to study
YouTube because they just needed something in the background that
could be at the reading on the sea, but didn't
have any words because I can't listen to words while
(33:36):
I write. And then I had a little bit of
like cafe jazz. Oh yeah, we had in comments, and
then at one point somebody said, this book feels like
if Chapel runs Pony a cloud bore a book, and
I realized that's true, like I just want to keep
dancing thing. So not really, I had really anonymous music,
(33:57):
but it kind of created a sort of soft bed
on which I could build a foundation of a story.
And yeah, I haven't thought about that too much, but
I wish there were more instrumentals that were dynamic, like
film scores and dramatic that I could just listen to
and repeat, because I feel like that really sparks.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Some I when I was an undergrad actually let me
not even pigeonhole that. When I was an art student,
and also when I was a quote unquote professional artist,
I think there was like a two year period where
(34:38):
all I listened to is house music, and film scores.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Brought to that.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I mean, watching so many movies, A really good score
not only supports the film but pulls your focus to, hey,
this is good music over here. And you know, when
I was a professional choreographer, I'm always listening for music
that tells a story that takes you on a journey.
(35:08):
And film scores where my go to, you know, especially
the more avant garde gonzo films like the score to
Fight Club for instance, got me through some stuffs. Get Paul, Yeah,
I love and I also love you know. The element
(35:28):
in your story about find basically finding your tribe, which
is an integral part of being a human. And you know,
no matter where you are on the planet, one of
the keys to survival is finding your tribe. You know,
(35:51):
however that may be, whether it's you know, talking to
your next door neighbor or finding a book club or
what have you. It's just it's so important. So who
is your tribe right right now? Who would you say
is like, this is my tribe.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
I'm glad you're asking that, because going back to the
black and white thinking and like the drama of being
a preteen and a team, when you come out or
you have some sort of big revelatory moments, it can
often sound like it realizes like the whole world hates me,
I have no friends. These are like like all or nothing,
(36:31):
black and white statements, right, And in reality you think
it's a more complicated than that, Like your parents might
not accept certain parts of you, and your friends might
accept all of that, and you know I don't. I'm
not I'm not prop properly articulating this, but basically, there
(36:52):
are people in my life. I feel like I can
go out with an advocate time an sam movie. There
are people who I can make dinner with and talk
about a book. There are people who I can think
up ridiculous drag numbers with and go to drag shows
and just be a little wild, right, And all of
these people resonate with a different side or a different
(37:15):
part of me, And it doesn't necessarily mean that they
represent the totality of who I am at any given time.
And so what I wanted to introduce through Derek's journey
is this idea that he belongs to a basketball team,
and he he belongs to basketball and feels like he
(37:35):
belongs in a certain way there, and he feels the
same way about drag for different reasons, and that's perfectly legitimate.
And the more that we can introduce the complexity of
these things. I think the closer to someone finding communities
that they belong to, and the closer that young readers
(37:56):
can feel that they belong in this world in many
ways is for men different reasons.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Exactly. We contain multitudes.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
It's true, Yeah, that was.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
That was a poignant part of the story. Like Derek
being in the small town where he's with his grandmother
and he has his new friends, and he referred to
himself as it was a heritage Derek, and then there's
like his back home Derek, and he was afraid that
(38:29):
those two had to be separate. And you know that's
as someone who was a queer child who you know
wasn't you're always afraid of not being accepted, having all
different parts of you not being accepted, and having a
(38:52):
compartmentalized And when you can find those people that overlap that,
then died. I agree. It's so wonderful and.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Sometimes rare, you know, definitely rare. Yeah, I think just
the idea that there can be two or more conflicting truths.
I don't know if this is like an age appropriate analogy,
but it's this idea that you know you are married
to somebody and then you meet someone else who you
(39:27):
have feelings for, and then you think, well, because I
have feelings for this new person, does this mean that
I no longer love the person that I'm married to?
And you know, you can be in love with those
people at once and share that, and they don't. They're
not mutually exclusive. Theyn't can't say each other's out or
they don't have to, right, And so I think the
(39:48):
same sort of logic can be applied to your interests
or the people you enjoy hanging with, or your different
identities like I remember when I first started studying or
recent sexuality, there's this prevailed dignotion and that I think
you know what you know what it was. It was
around the Obama election and numbers. We're going around asking
(40:12):
people like, so are you going to vote for Obama
or Hillary? Like would you choose your blackness or your
femaleness first? And it's like an impossible intersectionality to disentangle, right,
And it's true that you could be both at once.
You are both at once simultaneously out at all times.
They're not at break And I think the more comfortable
(40:36):
we get with this idea, the more we can embrace
the world for what it is, which is just a big,
complicated and messy place.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yes, and we have to embrace the mess, which I
think is the hard part. We want everything to be
neat and tidy and fit into a box with a
nice label on it, just one box, and no one
(41:10):
is that.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I remember as a kid people would ask me like,
what do you want to do when you grow up?
And I was like, I want to be a figure
skater and a detective and an author and like a
performer and a director. And they're just like, oh, yeah,
I'll share whatever, and like I'm not tooting my own horn,
but like I do all those things, like I wrote
(41:32):
a book and I have a film, and I do
drag and I have a day job, and like I
never had to choose, and I never had to or
should have been pressured to do that. It's just like
we just so I situated to this idea that we
must be like one sound right of a thing. I
(41:54):
don't know. We all contained so many stories and so
many bet dimensions and we should really learn how to that.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Come on, renaissance woman.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
Yeah right, yeah, I'm I am always.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Saying no one is ever always anything. You know what
I mean, and you know that's my clever way of
using absolutes to say that there are no absolutes. But yeah,
no one is ever just all one thing. And the people,
(42:35):
anyone that tells you that they are is either lying
or trying to tell you something, you know what I mean,
Like your most rigid Republican who's you know, got the
three piece suit and is you know anti this that?
And the third I bet you money there's a guard
(42:56):
belt under that suit. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
This is proven to be true.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You know, everyone has layers and there is more to everyone,
and the more you try to hide things, the more
that thing comes to the surface. And you know, if
we would just learn to embrace all the parts of
ourselves and stop trying to act like you know, this
is evil, this is bad, the happier will be again.
(43:28):
Get rid of the binary.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, I'm the production surrounding it.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yeah, it serves no one.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
It just for longger Baye. It just makes those same
feelings come up later, but with presentment.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Exact to skip up, you know, skip to the good part.
So what okay, here we go. If there were a film,
whether you were to make the film or not about
(44:02):
the queen Bees of Tybee County? Did you do you
have a cast in mind in the Bay.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
So, first of all, the book got options and so
Lambert Production is interested in turning this into a UK episodic,
which is amazing. I think there are a lot of
hoops to jump through before it heads a television, but
(44:33):
it's still nice to be like, oh, what was optioned?
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Cast. I love Sandra Oh work. I'm not sure if
she would be old enough to be a grandmother. I
love her Michelle Oh, but I feel like Sondra Oh
could kind of bring some of the comedy of Claudia.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
I can see it.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I can see that.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
And there's some like fierce young grandmoms out there.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
They're around, they need to be past right cast. And
for the dad, I feel like Daniel day Kim could
be Derek's dad Carlo my god, Yes, that's like the
(45:22):
gravity that you need. That he can bring the drama
and can be kind of reserved and a little withholding,
but also.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
And a hot dad never hurts, and a hot dad
never hurts, and.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
A hot dad, you know, I swear, And so I
feel like he would play that as well. And in
terms of the protagonist that does yet to reveal itself,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Some cool up and coming young actor, which reminds me like,
I hope I'm not being too squaaly. But there's a
moment where we find out that Derek's father wanted to
be an actor and basically gave it up because someone said,
no one wants to see an Asian Romeo. And that
(46:15):
was so real because you know, I know, it made
me stop and think about how many Asian leading actors
I've seen in my life that weren't doing kung fu.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yeah, you know this is not a large enough heart
of right, not in a cute way like this gets
to the heart of why I started writing and started
doing FELL because I realized how profile the media had
affected my sense of self growing up, because I was
largely absent from screening when I said, I mean Asian
(46:51):
American characters, and when I was seeing on the screen,
I was basically in the butt of a joke or
a pint of humiliation. I remember how we talked about
contrast providing definition and like, I am straight, and I
know I'm straight because I'm not gay, right, I feel
like the reason Asian Americans often appeared on the screen
was to provide comic relief or failed masculinity, to reflect
(47:15):
white masculinity and a better late yep, which is why
we don't see Asian Americans in leading roles or romantic leads,
because they're the foil so often and for a long time,
especially in middle school, I was ashamed of my race,
and I even once led to my friends in the
(47:37):
sixth grade and told them that I was half white
and that, you know, I was adopted and I'm not
really Asian. And I really reveled when they told me
I was practically white. And I've said something this, but
I realized a lot of that shame came from the
movies I had consumed at a really young age. And
(47:59):
so right now I want to correct the record, and
I want to create representations that actually reflect me with pride,
and that's what I have to do through Queen Bees.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
I love it. I love it. I'm here for it
because there's so much rich just richness there to tell.
And you know, you don't have to go on this
like historical journey to tell these stories. There's so many,
(48:32):
like real American stories centered around Asian lives, you know,
and damn it tell the stories.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
You know, that's true. And there are a lot of
exact saying these things simply are profitable and like it's
too risky, and like it won't work in the squadron
in the Midwest, won't like it. And it's like everything
everywhere all at once. I supposed to run with my success,
you know, at the end of I think this is
just you. But there's a new way of storytellers coming
(49:05):
through on me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yeah, everywhere, everything everywhere, all at once, parasite, uh crazy
rich Asians, Like it's starting to make the ups. What's
the one?
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Ah, oh oh damn, mm hmmm, joy Ryan, that was
really fun.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Yes, which I didn't see Beef, which I haven't seen yet.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
No, the one.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
A lot of controversy with that thought. That was a
great show.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
That's what I heard, the one with.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Oh my god, why am I not?
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Oh well, yes, that was that was beautiful. That was
I always said, that's like that's black Panther for Asian folks,
Like it was the same level of beauty and respect
and badass, Like I love that film.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
What is that child?
Speaker 1 (50:05):
If I can think of the names, I can think
of Oh damn, what is that comedian woman comedian? No,
she was Ali Wong, Thank you, my God.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Of course it was.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
It was what was it? You're the one that I want?
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Was that? What it was?
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Always be like, maybe thank you my brain was not braining.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Thank you for going on that journey with.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
And I'm glad we didn't. Yeah, that was I watched
that every now and again, just just because because it's
such a fun story. And so, yeah, there are we're
getting there, but you know, hopefully we'll get to a
place where folks don't feel like they have to fit
(51:07):
into a certain box to have Asian representation. Yeah, I'm
trying not to say be too white, but.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
I mean, let me say it, because I feel like
we're on the same page. What it does, which is
like the whole diverse fide media movement. I feel like
a lot of times, and I experienced this as an
artist applying for grancunds, A lot of times they want
you to put your identity in your culture first, and
they want you to situate yourself off as a representative
who's speaking on behalf of this whole thing. There's a
(51:43):
whole politics into this, but I feel like we're getting
to a place where we don't need all Asian americond
stories to be like my grandmama and I'm making dumplings
by the Majong sets and like, you know, these are
all about the stories and it's not to be important
(52:04):
like ye with my name, and it's just like it's
just like a pulpy love story. That's it, right, Like
give us dad movies too, And I can't wait for
the renaissances out of exactly.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Well, that's why I was so happy with the show
Fresh off the Boat, because like I went to school
with that kid Eddie, you know what I mean, Like
I know that kid, well no, but I'm saying like
I was, like I went to school in West Philly,
(52:38):
and West Philly has this wonderfully vibrant Asian community, so
I some of my first friends were like Vietnamese and Korean.
So it's like I know that kid. You know, he
likes hip hop, he likes you know what I'm saying.
So I love that those are this like any real person.
Speaker 4 (53:01):
And I think that's what what I get out of
storytelling is being able to share the people who I
know exists in real life and have made my life
colorful and being able to actually see them on screen,
and especially the people we haven't seen before, like a
(53:21):
grandpa who is clunkily trans allied to Betty, the protagonists
of the shor what I did to you know, well, well,
meeting a punk rock.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Social worker who is in a hot light house, like
another feature that I'm working on with my stand machine.
It's just like it just fills out our world. And
I don't know, I'm just excited for us to continue
consuming and creating real ass stories because I think we
need that.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Real ass stories. Indeed, you know, because you know what
authenticity you can you can taste it and more to
the point inauthenticity. You can feel it, and it's that
whole thing like real recognizes real and the queen Bees
(54:13):
of Tybee County that's real. I can tell. Like it
feels like it comes from a real place. There's no artifice.
It's like even if like you, Kyle, didn't experience this
particular thing, you're drawing from someone or something that you know,
(54:33):
you know, like none of it feels like made up
whole cloth. It comes from a real place. And I
appreciate that, and I think young readers will get a
lot out of this book. And it's not just for
(54:53):
you know, queer folks in fact, like you know, put
this book in the hands of your sist, white child.
Damn it, you.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Were talking about Black Panther. I'm not black, but that
movie made a chears and started walk on it forever, okay,
because it was so beautiful to see it, and it's
something not it's like Blacktopia. It did something for me. Right,
You don't have to be I thought I do to
appreciate that and for it to really around out your
(55:25):
world exactly.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
And you know, shang Chi, even though like the original
character was a little bit problematic, you know, it's like right,
it's like, okay, so you center a comic book around
an Asian person and he's automatically got to be the
best at kung fu because that's what he does. But
(55:53):
at least in the move and this and and and
this is a testament to the actor. He felt like
he did not feel like a caricature. Well right, exactly, dignity,
you know, coming from a real place, not asking for
too much.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Well, Kyle Casey Chow, this has been fabulous.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
I could sit and talk with you all day. It up.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, and again I love, love, love love your book,
and I cannot recommend it highly enough. It's a delightful story.
It's an easy read. You get in, you get enveloped
and engrossed in the story so easily. And like I said,
(56:47):
you know, every time I picked it up, Bam, fifty
pages done went by.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
But yeah, I'll say it to you, it's like kind
of betrayed, just like queer joy gay hug, big gay hug.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Yes, yeah, I love it. Okay, So if we wanted
to learn more about you and your goings on, and
more important, most importantly, where to buy the book, where
would we go?
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Well, here's the book catch. I'm just kidding. You can
buy my book anywhere books are sold, so Amazon Bookshop,
Barnes and Noble, or a beloved local indie bookstore. And
you can find more about me at kylecaseychu dot com
or on Instagram at at Panda Dulce Fabulous.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
And I will make sure to include all of that
information in the notes to this episode, because we should
all know more about you and what you do because
you're fascinating period. Oh likewise, that's right, and so I
can't wait to have you back on the show. To
(58:05):
talk about the series that comes from it. You know
what I'm saying, So let's do it, I mean, or
whatever the hell else you're doing next, because you know,
I see nothing but great things for you.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
Yeah, there's there's a second book coming out, a sequel
to Queen bee Us really. Yeah. It's about a celebrity
drag queen and goes missing and Derek and JJ have
to find her work. I know it's not cool. And
then there's a picture book about drag legend Jose Sorry,
who founded the Imperial Court System which is a network
(58:45):
drag Royalty who raised money for LGBG causes. So I
think both are coming out next year or some time.
That's okay, It's a lot.
Speaker 1 (58:59):
I'm down. Oh I'm really looking forward to the sequel.
By the way, so Gila, I'm hooked. Well, thank you
so much for joining us at the Full Circle table
and I can't wait to chat again.
Speaker 2 (59:16):
Charles, thank you and you have a wonderful day too.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
Full Circle is a Never Skurred Productions podcast hosted by
Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal, produced and edited by
Never Scurred Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal.
Our theme in music is by the jingle Mary's All Names, pictures, music, audio,
and video clips are registered trademarks and or copyrights of
their respective copyright holders.
Coming to you from the dining room table at East
Barbary Lane, we bring you a special episode of Full
Circle the Podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Jr.
And I am thrilled to be sitting with our guest today.
We have a wonderful artist, author, performer and all around
(00:39):
fierce diva. She has written a wonderful book called The
Queen Bees of Tybee County. Kyle Casey Chu, Welcome to
the Full Circle Table.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Thank you so much for that illustrious open It is
a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I am so glad to sit here with you because
I just finished the book. First of all, the cover
is so adorable, great.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Don't you love it? I do?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And you know I'm looking at I was looking at
the cover art after I finished the book, and I
caught all the little references in the story in the
art work.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I was like, Okay, that's just so clever. Some work
of Jay Yang, who is such an angel and genius.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Wonderful work.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So yeah, this book is a delightful read.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And I was telling Martha, was like, every time I
sit down and open this book, I just inhale fifty
pages and don't realize what happened.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I love to hear that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So, first of all, tell me a little bit about
what The Queen Bees of Tybee County is about.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Absolutely, so, Hello, I am Kyle Casey to aka panthera
do'l say. I am a writer, a filmmaker, and one
of the founding queens of Drag Story Hour, which I
definitely want to. Oh, you should come. It's a good time.
They're space panning their bubbles. Sometimes there's pizza. I feel
look abe and The Queen Beees of Tybee County is
(02:15):
my debut middle grade novel, and it is about Derek
Cham who is a seventh grade Chinese American basketball star
who is shipped off to his grandma's house in rural Georgia,
where he explores his square identity, his love for drag,
and his Chinese a Chinese American heritage through participating in
(02:38):
a local pageant.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
There you go, And that is the the encapsulated version.
But is so it's such a wild journey, and it's
such a heartwarming journey and relatable. I think any queer
person can relate to so many elements of this story.
(03:01):
So how much of your personal history is in this?
In Derek in any of the characters.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
So I wanted to give my character an experience that
I had and experience that I didn't have. And so
a lot of my own childhood and upbringing is infused
into the story through the adult figures who encourage me
to read and encourage me to be fabulous and explore makeup,
as well as a playing basketball, which is something that
(03:32):
I haven't done and a skill set that I actually
don't have. And so I find a lot of my
own father and Derek's father. I find a lot of
the English teachers who nurtured me in my creative voice,
and Claudia and bits my mom and my grandma as well.
So it's been an analcama, but both I would say.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I love it, and I love how warm. Even though
Derek encounters some adversity, whether it be homophobia or racism
or just you know, being an outsider in general, there's
that warm circle that surrounds him, be it family or
(04:17):
chosen family. And is that also something that you've had
growing up and becoming the wonderful person that we see
in front of us.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh, gosh, you flatter me, yes, I would say, so.
So I game I came out very early on in
the seventh grade, and this was in the early aughts.
I know, I was one of the only great kids
at school, and overnight I lost my whole friend's circle.
It was a dark chapter. I had to reinvent myself,
(04:50):
refine myself, find a new circul circle. And it was
earth chattering for me as a twelve year old. And
what saved me from that was being able to throw
myself into the creative arts. At the time, it was music,
and it was writing a novel that was processing my career,
identity and my budding feelings for my best friend, which
is such a queer like tale as old as time,
(05:13):
and finding community and a lot of fellow artists as well.
And I think ever since finding this passion of support,
I've never turned away. And so you know, even today,
a lot of my closest friends are writers, actors, musicians
who to have found their pass of joy and healing
through art.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I love it. Yeah, you have to surround yourself with
artists because otherwise your world has no color.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It's true, it may play forth, living and rich. I'm
actually in New York City right now because we're premiering
a film at NewFest. The LGBTQ Festival Film Festival in
New York, and we've made so many good friends just
through sharing really vulnerable aspects of ourselves. And it's nice
to be able to skip over this I'll talk of
things and really get to know somebody through a really
(06:03):
personal story that they poured themselves into.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I love that's right, because you're a filmmaker as well.
Films do you make if you had to put a
label on it totally?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
You know, that's a good question. I should probably like
practice what I answer this with. But right now, I
focus a lot of my stories on queer and trans
Asian Americans and on soft people who are put in
hard situations. And so the first short that I came
up with is called After what Happened at the Library,
(06:35):
and it's auto fiction, so it's based on my experience
in twenty twenty two when the Proud Boys stormed my
drive Story Hour in San Lorenzo. I'm fair shouting transphobic
hate speech and I had to lock myself in the
back until the authorities arrived. It was national news, international news,
and it's about the direct aftermath of that at Variety,
(06:58):
and so that's in the Film Festival circuit right now.
And then I'm here at Newsaster for Betty Saint Clair,
which is about a Chinese American drag queen who throws
a drag performance at a senior citizen center and her
yay or grandpa is in the audience, and so she
has to decide whether to go on and and how
she reveals her true self or not.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, for one thing. For one thing,
I love your description soft people. Is it soft people
that go through hard times?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Is that what you said?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, that's beautiful. That's that's a tagline right there.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Thank you, thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
That well, you are one of the the founding queens
uh your your Uh what am I trying to say?
Your artistic counter part, Panda Doulce, you are one of
the founding queens of Drag story Time, right, It's true,
which is thank you for your service.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Chall So, because of your experience dealing with the Proud
Boys and Drag Story Time, you definitely have h first
person experience with triumphing over adversity, which is, you know,
an integral part of being a queer person in America,
(08:25):
especially right now. And you're like an authority on in
that area, I would say.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Thank you. Yeah, I think I think a lot of
any resilience that I have I owe to my community.
Which is such a queer answer, right, but it's real
for a reason. Like after it happens, I was just
inundated with press and journalists asking me over and over
(08:54):
to to just relive it in a really expreciating way,
and like asking for all these details and all the
It felt like it felt like I was being quartered into,
being triggered so that they could have that sound by
it for what they wanted the story to be, right
as well as just you know, like trauma dumps and
love letters and death threats and Transphoba hate and and
(09:18):
so in the aftermath, I couldn't really make any decisions
in my life, Like my executive functioning was shot. I
couldn't get out of bed. I couldn't even order food.
I was just so overwhelmed. And and my friend stepped
up in a really big way. And queer dreads people
from across the world, Like I got letters from like
(09:41):
Norway and Sweeten and people sending me like Tea and
Crystal and like you know, organizing meal trains and coming
to cook like larm for me, like Thai food and
just volunteering to come watch movies with me. And it
kind of clear or if I had what pride meant
(10:01):
for me, that it's less about the ostentatious floats and
it's more about this network of people who we've cultivated together.
And I thought that was a really beautiful thing. And
I can't be a lot of help in the future.
That is it.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
That's it, you know, it's community, like community, chosen family,
coming together through the hard times, just being there for
one another. That is what pride is about. You know.
I do enjoy a good go go boy and some
(10:37):
skimpy underwear shaken on a float every now and again.
But at the heart of it, you know, that's really
what it is. And that's what I keep trying to
get our cishead counterparts to understand. You know, everyone wants
to reduce being queer to sex. It's always, well, you know,
(11:03):
what goes on in the bedroom shouln't be blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah. My argument is always, oh,
so you stop being straight the moment after you come.
Is that how this works? You know, It's like it's
it's about community, and it's a lot of people take
that for granted because they've never really had to overcome anything,
(11:25):
you know what I mean. So yours is a powerful
story and a powerful message. And again I thank you
for you know, doing what you've done and going through
what you've gone through, because it's a cornerstone of what
it means to be LGBTQ in America.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Thanks so much much. And honestly, I really quod that
you brought that up, because I don't know. I was
very critical of a lot of the queer media and
culture that I have consumers in high school, and this
was around the time that Prop eight was up, and
it seems that our flagship issue as a community was
(12:07):
whether or not we could get married. And I understand
that's a very personal decision and very important to a
lot of people. I don't necessarily believe in marriage for myself,
but often our priorities and our focuses as the community
are dictated by those at the top, and those at
the top tend to be to stay white men. And
(12:28):
you see this reflected in the media that we have.
You see this reflected in the events that are the
most resourced for pride, and it doesn't speak for everyone,
and so I think that's why supporting queer trans literature
from queer transfers of color is important to just add
to the tapestry of who we are and to remind
(12:50):
us that there are our voices that are fighting to
get a mode to come of the same amount of
spotlight and that very much deserve it.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Very much so. And I also appreciate that you bring
to the table your experiences as an Asian American well
and as an Asian American period and as an Asian
American queer person, because those are stories that don't get
told as often, especially when we talk about, like say, racism,
(13:26):
the story tends to focus on white versus black because
you know, for obvious reasons, but there's so much of
a tapestry under the bipoc umbrella that we don't delve
into that much. And admittedly, like I try to seek
(13:48):
out things that are centered around Asian and Asian American stories,
but it doesn't happen near as much as it should.
So I was so grateful that your book came into
my life.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I guess so much. Yeah, I think that black and
white paradigms and binaries in general are such a a
straight constructs because I don't know. I feel like as
group people like we know that life exists on a
spectrum and identities exist on a spectrum, and there's more
(14:26):
to the world than the binaristic polar opposites on that.
I think that's what I'm kind of beautiful about who
we are and how we can grow and change and
experiments and not be so fixated or fixed in our
conception of self in the world. And I hope that's
something that I get through, but I think you do.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Like I love how there are definitely, uh little cultural moments, images, words,
food that are just woven through the story and it's just,
you know, it's just part of the experience of Derek.
(15:11):
It's beautiful. One thing I did want to ask you,
you made a point in the Book of Everyone Who
Is All that I believe all the characters in the
book that are LGBTQ saying queer as opposed to gay.
That felt like a very definitive choice. Why did you
(15:32):
make that choice?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I mean, why not? But why?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So it's interesting because I identify as a millennial, and
I imagine that the vast majority of people who are
going to pick up this book, are going to be Jenalfa,
which is coming from the terms with and identity in
a different way. And so I wanted to write something
that was true to me and we'll also speak to
(16:00):
that generation. And I think the best way to do
that is to have a human centered story and that's
what makes things timeless. But are you familiar with the
phrase like not gay as unhappy, but queer as an
f you?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yes, yes, yes I am.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Can I say that on here? Can we can we
do real love?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
You can curse, you can say trow.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So it's really just like embrace, adopting and embracing that ethos,
And that's kind of a punk rock thing of, you know,
one's identity not just being a similationist and acceptable and respectable,
but fundamentally at odds with everything around you. And that
is the predicament that Derek finds himself in when he
(16:49):
is in the small town where he doesn't know anybody.
He's coming to the terms with himself, coming to an
understanding of who he is and who he is capable
of becoming, and boldly decides that he needs to go
in the direction that is true. And so the reason
why I chose queer is because I feel like it
speaks to this theme and that each of the characters
(17:11):
in their own way embodies this based on their timeline
or the plot head of album. If that makes sense, it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Does, And that definitely does make sense because queer is
definitely more of an all encompassing term because you know,
depending on what person is reading this book and where
they fall on the spectrum, they can identify no matter
(17:44):
where they are because you use the word queer because
you know, if you had chosen the word gay, what
if they're not gay? What if they're by what if that?
You know what I'm saying. So I did appreciate that choice.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, probably any universe, like you said, I feel you.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, I dig it. And again it's challenging that damned
binary which people have.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Such a problem with.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Well, it's funny because I feel like binary is okay.
So I know, I said, straight people created it. It's true,
and it's not true because because I feel like binaristic
thinking and black and white thinking comes from like cave
days where it's like you walk past a cave and
you look in and it's dark and it looks scary,
(18:33):
and you're like, am I gonna die there? Or am
I going to survive in there? And it's not simple
like do I go in or do I leave? And like, right,
that is the sort of thinking that we regress to
when we think about these things sometimes is it good
that or is it bad? Is that you know, evil
or whatever? And I feel like a lot of our
work sometimes so really impact that and to complicate that
(18:58):
and to get used to the ambiguity of all and
that might be what leads us to having a sort
of quiet beast with ourselves.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
You know, that's interesting, Like I never really thought of
the binary as a defense mechanism. That's interesting. And so
the irony of that then is that once you can
embrace the spectrum, there's a level of comfort that comes
(19:30):
with that, comfort with oneself, comfort with the world around you,
and then irony again, how threatening that is to people
that exist in the binary.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right, I feel like there's just it's kind of an
exposure therapy tanking, because it's like the more the white
spectrum from people that you're introduced to, a white spectrum
of stories of different walks of life, the more taller
even I hate that word, it's like, yeah, they can
tolerate you, but the more open than you are to
(20:06):
hearing somebody out or just receptive that you might be
or where they come from. And it's like all, I
think a lot of xenophobia just comes from just but
like lack of exposure to and therefore a lack of
empathy on other people who they haven't met.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Right, which I mean, that's such a foreign thing to
me because because I've been lucky, because pretty much my
entire life, I've been surrounded by so many different kinds
of people. And like my friend group from grade school
(20:43):
through college was like the United Colors of Benatton, you know,
the white ones and the black ones and the brown
ones and the brown and the Beisian. You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Don't people the same way. It's like hard for me
to relate to that, like all I mean, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
But you know, they're it. And it still boggles my
mind in twenty twenty five that there are some white
folks walking around that can and have live their entire
life up to this point surrounded by nothing but white people. Say,
how is that even possible? Like physically possible? At this point?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I mean, I feel like it's something I've got a
lot of people aspire to, Like you think about people
who get richer and what they want to do. They
want to get their own place that's isolated from everyone else.
They want to get a private driver with tinted windows
so they're separated, and you know, people aspire for this
level of insulation. It's just it's just not a realistic
(21:49):
way to live, and it's not how I want to
live my life. I want to be integrated into the
the textures of the world. So I don't know. I
think every book is kind of a gateway to invite
you to be a part of the world in a
way that makes sense for everyone here here.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I love it. I love it. So one of the
main components of the story is Derek discovers not only
his queer identity, but his love of drag. And you know,
you have your your your artistic persona of Panda Dulce.
(22:34):
How much of a parallel is there between your discovery
of drag and the embracing of the feminine. How much
of a parallels that between you and Derek.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I feel like there's a lot one of the ways
that I was introduced to drag because I have been
doing that my whole life. When I was little, I
would walk around with this little face paint book that
had a palette of of you know, just different colors,
primary colors. And in middle school I would just make
(23:07):
up with my friends at sepembers. We laugh about it.
And in high school I was in some plays and
then you know, got really serious about it as an adult.
But I think the through line throughout all of this
was a sense of play and wonder and also the
power in the shop value of being seen and unmistakably
seen and acknowledge. I feel like as growing up Asian American,
(23:33):
there's this sort of invisibility that many of us may experience,
which is being kind of regarded as dismissable or disposable
or just kind of like an NPC. And this this
was just a kind of dynamic that I found a
lot We're always suspected growing up. But I grew up
(23:54):
in San Francisco, which has a big Asian Recan population,
but felt very sharply when I went to these because
first school and was in a predominantly UHDE environment, Like
it almost felt like I was invisible most of the
time and then highly visible at other times, like when
certain works came up and they're like, oh, can you
speak on behalf of an entire racial group, Kyle, So
(24:18):
kind of having this lack of control over one's visibility
and therefore a lack of dignity and a sort of
objectification of one's experience. I wanted to talk about that
and sort of play with those ideas in terms of
how Derek discovers himself and learns to kind of a
reclaim a sense of control and authorship over that and
(24:41):
gets to decide for him himself when he gets to
dazzle and shy and when he has quieter moments with
his friends. And I don't know, I think about pageant
was a perfect venue for that, Oh definitely.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
And I love the drag name that he chose from
so Be Daring. It's just like, you know, message.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And I don't want to put any spoilers on there,
but there's definitely a personal reason for that collection as well.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And I love I love the relationship that Derek has
with his best friend JJ, and I love how they
have this thing where this is going to be the
summer of This is gonna be the summer of X
y Z and and this particular summer was the summer
of Yes, and I'm like, we should all have a
summer of yes and an autumn of yes and a
(25:37):
winter yes.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, thank you for that. I had to restrain myself
from calling it summer of Yes with an A because
I was just like that. But I think a lot
of them came actually because this book was greenlight. Like
right after the first you're in the pandemic and we
were all, you know, isolated. It not to throw you
(26:02):
back into the into that, but I feel like afterwards,
when everyone started picking their heads out and gathering in
public again, we all became a little awkward because we've
been isolated for so long, and I was like, oh yeah,
and like even some night life at and events, I
haven't really bounced back from that. And for me, I
(26:24):
was like, I craved connection, and I craved.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Mug I'm sorry anyway, I craved connection and then I
craved community, and I decided that when people asked me
to do things, I would always say yes, and it's
led to a lot of great friendships post Panini, and
I want to do the same for Derek, So I
love it.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, that's for real. I've that time was a moment
of intense growth for a lot of people, especially folks
in our community, but it also broke some folks, you know,
(27:07):
And it's like at the same time, it's it's interesting,
like at the same time that so many people are
discovering themselves, so many other people are like finding ways
to other everyone else. It's that that dichotomy is just
(27:29):
it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, you know, before I came out, I was pretty homophobic,
and I remember I would call people a fag and
I would say, oh, that looks gay, right, And it's
like contrast provides definition in the sense that you know,
(27:54):
you know that you are straight because you are not gay,
and because you are not gay, you are straight. Right,
So if you call everyone else, that makes you not
that way for me.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
But that's that's that's how that works.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I don't know. So I think there's a lot of
insight into homophobia, and that's why I like Republicans are
shown through psychological tests to respond the most to like
queer porn. Ah. I don't know, that's the whole can
of worms that we don't have to go to another
podcast episode. But but you know, usually when people have transphobia,
(28:37):
have like harbor homophog use it. It usually points to
some work that needs to be done that I doubt
they'll embark on, but hope they do.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
As I'm fond of saying, the squeaky wheel wants to
get bent over in greeceed. No, but but yeah, that's true.
Like it internalized homophobia, internalized transphobia. It's two pronged one. Obviously,
(29:13):
it's a product of the narrative that we've been force
fed our entire lives through religion, full stop period. I
don't have to give another example, but you know, it's
also a defense mechanism, especially when you're a kid like
I get it, and you have to have a certain
level of introspection to come out on the other side.
(29:39):
And I think that's where we lose a lot of people,
because introspection is not a does not appear to be
a very popular trait amongst people if you go by
what you see on the.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Daily right, I think our world, and mediated through capitalism,
is predicated on distraction and yes speaking, validation, whether it's
through being beautiful or accomplished, or buying a makeup to
(30:15):
look a certain way, social media and you know, the
zombie state of Storling and all. Because I don't know.
I think critical thinking and self awareness and reflect them
could threaten the entire fabric, and therefore it's reviled and
(30:37):
the lion and I don't know. And it's funny that
books are getting bambacked right now, because what do books
are encourage but creativity and critical thinking?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Oh exactly. Knowledge equals power, and that is one thing
they do not want us to have, is power, because
and knowledge. Because if we spend so much time down
here on the ground fighting amongst each other, we won't
take the time to stop and look up at the
(31:11):
ones who have like sown the seeds of descent, and
you know, there's way more of us than there are
of them, And yeah, it's best to keep us busy.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
That's true. I forget who the theorist is who put
it this way, but they said, how many of the
guards do you need for a prison of a billion?
And they said you only if they are all fighting
at each other, you only need one. Is that one
guard is just watching it at all, in bold and
(31:42):
their job is done for them exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
And that's why I am so glad that we have
books like yours, because you know, I feel like and
we've said this on the podcast several times, like four
and and Fahrenheit for fifty one and The Handmaid's Tale
(32:07):
and Brave New World. We're supposed to be horrible warnings,
not a freaking how to guide, you know. It's like,
are people not reading? I feel like, because yeah, if
we're not encouraged to read, then we won't encounter these books,
and then we won't go hmmm, this is like the
playbook that we're going through. So yeah, it's it's so
(32:32):
the apocalypse looks so much cooler in the brochure, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
What it's art life too closely. It's a different story,
you know, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
So yeah, that's why I'm so glad that we have
voices like yours.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Thank careful.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So here's a question that I always ask my author
and authorist guests. I'm a huge fan of music and
using music as a background element when I create, is
do you have a soundtrack when you write? And if so,
what was the soundtrack to the writing of this book.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, that's so funny that you asked that, because it
I kind of want on a journey with those. At first,
I was just listening to low fi beats to study
YouTube because they just needed something in the background that
could be at the reading on the sea, but didn't
have any words because I can't listen to words while
(33:36):
I write. And then I had a little bit of
like cafe jazz. Oh yeah, we had in comments, and
then at one point somebody said, this book feels like
if Chapel runs Pony a cloud bore a book, and
I realized that's true, like I just want to keep
dancing thing. So not really, I had really anonymous music,
(33:57):
but it kind of created a sort of soft bed
on which I could build a foundation of a story.
And yeah, I haven't thought about that too much, but
I wish there were more instrumentals that were dynamic, like
film scores and dramatic that I could just listen to
and repeat, because I feel like that really sparks.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Some I when I was an undergrad actually let me
not even pigeonhole that. When I was an art student,
and also when I was a quote unquote professional artist,
I think there was like a two year period where
(34:38):
all I listened to is house music, and film scores.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Brought to that.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I mean, watching so many movies, A really good score
not only supports the film but pulls your focus to, hey,
this is good music over here. And you know, when
I was a professional choreographer, I'm always listening for music
that tells a story that takes you on a journey.
(35:08):
And film scores where my go to, you know, especially
the more avant garde gonzo films like the score to
Fight Club for instance, got me through some stuffs. Get Paul, Yeah,
I love and I also love you know. The element
(35:28):
in your story about find basically finding your tribe, which
is an integral part of being a human. And you know,
no matter where you are on the planet, one of
the keys to survival is finding your tribe. You know,
(35:51):
however that may be, whether it's you know, talking to
your next door neighbor or finding a book club or
what have you. It's just it's so important. So who
is your tribe right right now? Who would you say
is like, this is my tribe.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
I'm glad you're asking that, because going back to the
black and white thinking and like the drama of being
a preteen and a team, when you come out or
you have some sort of big revelatory moments, it can
often sound like it realizes like the whole world hates me,
I have no friends. These are like like all or nothing,
(36:31):
black and white statements, right, And in reality you think
it's a more complicated than that, Like your parents might
not accept certain parts of you, and your friends might
accept all of that, and you know I don't. I'm
not I'm not prop properly articulating this, but basically, there
(36:52):
are people in my life. I feel like I can
go out with an advocate time an sam movie. There
are people who I can make dinner with and talk
about a book. There are people who I can think
up ridiculous drag numbers with and go to drag shows
and just be a little wild, right, And all of
these people resonate with a different side or a different
(37:15):
part of me, And it doesn't necessarily mean that they
represent the totality of who I am at any given time.
And so what I wanted to introduce through Derek's journey
is this idea that he belongs to a basketball team,
and he he belongs to basketball and feels like he
(37:35):
belongs in a certain way there, and he feels the
same way about drag for different reasons, and that's perfectly legitimate.
And the more that we can introduce the complexity of
these things. I think the closer to someone finding communities
that they belong to, and the closer that young readers
(37:56):
can feel that they belong in this world in many
ways is for men different reasons.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Exactly. We contain multitudes.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
It's true, Yeah, that was.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
That was a poignant part of the story. Like Derek
being in the small town where he's with his grandmother
and he has his new friends, and he referred to
himself as it was a heritage Derek, and then there's
like his back home Derek, and he was afraid that
(38:29):
those two had to be separate. And you know that's
as someone who was a queer child who you know
wasn't you're always afraid of not being accepted, having all
different parts of you not being accepted, and having a
(38:52):
compartmentalized And when you can find those people that overlap that,
then died. I agree. It's so wonderful and.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Sometimes rare, you know, definitely rare. Yeah, I think just
the idea that there can be two or more conflicting truths.
I don't know if this is like an age appropriate analogy,
but it's this idea that you know you are married
to somebody and then you meet someone else who you
(39:27):
have feelings for, and then you think, well, because I
have feelings for this new person, does this mean that
I no longer love the person that I'm married to?
And you know, you can be in love with those
people at once and share that, and they don't. They're
not mutually exclusive. Theyn't can't say each other's out or
they don't have to, right, And so I think the
(39:48):
same sort of logic can be applied to your interests
or the people you enjoy hanging with, or your different
identities like I remember when I first started studying or
recent sexuality, there's this prevailed dignotion and that I think
you know what you know what it was. It was
around the Obama election and numbers. We're going around asking
(40:12):
people like, so are you going to vote for Obama
or Hillary? Like would you choose your blackness or your
femaleness first? And it's like an impossible intersectionality to disentangle, right,
And it's true that you could be both at once.
You are both at once simultaneously out at all times.
They're not at break And I think the more comfortable
(40:36):
we get with this idea, the more we can embrace
the world for what it is, which is just a big,
complicated and messy place.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yes, and we have to embrace the mess, which I
think is the hard part. We want everything to be
neat and tidy and fit into a box with a
nice label on it, just one box, and no one
(41:10):
is that.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I remember as a kid people would ask me like,
what do you want to do when you grow up?
And I was like, I want to be a figure
skater and a detective and an author and like a
performer and a director. And they're just like, oh, yeah,
I'll share whatever, and like I'm not tooting my own horn,
but like I do all those things, like I wrote
(41:32):
a book and I have a film, and I do
drag and I have a day job, and like I
never had to choose, and I never had to or
should have been pressured to do that. It's just like
we just so I situated to this idea that we
must be like one sound right of a thing. I
(41:54):
don't know. We all contained so many stories and so
many bet dimensions and we should really learn how to that.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Come on, renaissance woman.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
Yeah right, yeah, I'm I am always.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Saying no one is ever always anything. You know what
I mean, and you know that's my clever way of
using absolutes to say that there are no absolutes. But yeah,
no one is ever just all one thing. And the people,
(42:35):
anyone that tells you that they are is either lying
or trying to tell you something, you know what I mean,
Like your most rigid Republican who's you know, got the
three piece suit and is you know anti this that?
And the third I bet you money there's a guard
(42:56):
belt under that suit. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
This is proven to be true.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You know, everyone has layers and there is more to everyone,
and the more you try to hide things, the more
that thing comes to the surface. And you know, if
we would just learn to embrace all the parts of
ourselves and stop trying to act like you know, this
is evil, this is bad, the happier will be again.
(43:28):
Get rid of the binary.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, I'm the production surrounding it.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yeah, it serves no one.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
It just for longger Baye. It just makes those same
feelings come up later, but with presentment.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Exact to skip up, you know, skip to the good part.
So what okay, here we go. If there were a film,
whether you were to make the film or not about
(44:02):
the queen Bees of Tybee County? Did you do you
have a cast in mind in the Bay.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
So, first of all, the book got options and so
Lambert Production is interested in turning this into a UK episodic,
which is amazing. I think there are a lot of
hoops to jump through before it heads a television, but
(44:33):
it's still nice to be like, oh, what was optioned?
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Cast. I love Sandra Oh work. I'm not sure if
she would be old enough to be a grandmother. I
love her Michelle Oh, but I feel like Sondra Oh
could kind of bring some of the comedy of Claudia.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
I can see it.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I can see that.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
And there's some like fierce young grandmoms out there.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
They're around, they need to be past right cast. And
for the dad, I feel like Daniel day Kim could
be Derek's dad Carlo my god, Yes, that's like the
(45:22):
gravity that you need. That he can bring the drama
and can be kind of reserved and a little withholding,
but also.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
And a hot dad never hurts, and a hot dad
never hurts, and.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
A hot dad, you know, I swear, And so I
feel like he would play that as well. And in
terms of the protagonist that does yet to reveal itself,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Some cool up and coming young actor, which reminds me like,
I hope I'm not being too squaaly. But there's a
moment where we find out that Derek's father wanted to
be an actor and basically gave it up because someone said,
no one wants to see an Asian Romeo. And that
(46:15):
was so real because you know, I know, it made
me stop and think about how many Asian leading actors
I've seen in my life that weren't doing kung fu.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yeah, you know this is not a large enough heart
of right, not in a cute way like this gets
to the heart of why I started writing and started
doing FELL because I realized how profile the media had
affected my sense of self growing up, because I was
largely absent from screening when I said, I mean Asian
(46:51):
American characters, and when I was seeing on the screen,
I was basically in the butt of a joke or
a pint of humiliation. I remember how we talked about
contrast providing definition and like, I am straight, and I
know I'm straight because I'm not gay, right, I feel
like the reason Asian Americans often appeared on the screen
was to provide comic relief or failed masculinity, to reflect
(47:15):
white masculinity and a better late yep, which is why
we don't see Asian Americans in leading roles or romantic leads,
because they're the foil so often and for a long time,
especially in middle school, I was ashamed of my race,
and I even once led to my friends in the
(47:37):
sixth grade and told them that I was half white
and that, you know, I was adopted and I'm not
really Asian. And I really reveled when they told me
I was practically white. And I've said something this, but
I realized a lot of that shame came from the
movies I had consumed at a really young age. And
(47:59):
so right now I want to correct the record, and
I want to create representations that actually reflect me with pride,
and that's what I have to do through Queen Bees.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
I love it. I love it. I'm here for it
because there's so much rich just richness there to tell.
And you know, you don't have to go on this
like historical journey to tell these stories. There's so many,
(48:32):
like real American stories centered around Asian lives, you know,
and damn it tell the stories.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
You know, that's true. And there are a lot of
exact saying these things simply are profitable and like it's
too risky, and like it won't work in the squadron
in the Midwest, won't like it. And it's like everything
everywhere all at once. I supposed to run with my success,
you know, at the end of I think this is
just you. But there's a new way of storytellers coming
(49:05):
through on me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yeah, everywhere, everything everywhere, all at once, parasite, uh crazy
rich Asians, Like it's starting to make the ups. What's
the one?
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Ah, oh oh damn, mm hmmm, joy Ryan, that was
really fun.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Yes, which I didn't see Beef, which I haven't seen yet.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
No, the one.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
A lot of controversy with that thought. That was a
great show.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
That's what I heard, the one with.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Oh my god, why am I not?
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Oh well, yes, that was that was beautiful. That was
I always said, that's like that's black Panther for Asian folks,
Like it was the same level of beauty and respect
and badass, Like I love that film.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
What is that child?
Speaker 1 (50:05):
If I can think of the names, I can think
of Oh damn, what is that comedian woman comedian? No,
she was Ali Wong, Thank you, my God.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Of course it was.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
It was what was it? You're the one that I want?
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Was that? What it was?
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Always be like, maybe thank you my brain was not braining.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Thank you for going on that journey with.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
And I'm glad we didn't. Yeah, that was I watched
that every now and again, just just because because it's
such a fun story. And so, yeah, there are we're
getting there, but you know, hopefully we'll get to a
place where folks don't feel like they have to fit
(51:07):
into a certain box to have Asian representation. Yeah, I'm
trying not to say be too white, but.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
I mean, let me say it, because I feel like
we're on the same page. What it does, which is
like the whole diverse fide media movement. I feel like
a lot of times, and I experienced this as an
artist applying for grancunds, A lot of times they want
you to put your identity in your culture first, and
they want you to situate yourself off as a representative
who's speaking on behalf of this whole thing. There's a
(51:43):
whole politics into this, but I feel like we're getting
to a place where we don't need all Asian americond
stories to be like my grandmama and I'm making dumplings
by the Majong sets and like, you know, these are
all about the stories and it's not to be important
(52:04):
like ye with my name, and it's just like it's
just like a pulpy love story. That's it, right, Like
give us dad movies too, And I can't wait for
the renaissances out of exactly.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Well, that's why I was so happy with the show
Fresh off the Boat, because like I went to school
with that kid Eddie, you know what I mean, Like
I know that kid, well no, but I'm saying like
I was, like I went to school in West Philly,
(52:38):
and West Philly has this wonderfully vibrant Asian community, so
I some of my first friends were like Vietnamese and Korean.
So it's like I know that kid. You know, he
likes hip hop, he likes you know what I'm saying.
So I love that those are this like any real person.
Speaker 4 (53:01):
And I think that's what what I get out of
storytelling is being able to share the people who I
know exists in real life and have made my life
colorful and being able to actually see them on screen,
and especially the people we haven't seen before, like a
(53:21):
grandpa who is clunkily trans allied to Betty, the protagonists
of the shor what I did to you know, well, well,
meeting a punk rock.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Social worker who is in a hot light house, like
another feature that I'm working on with my stand machine.
It's just like it just fills out our world. And
I don't know, I'm just excited for us to continue
consuming and creating real ass stories because I think we
need that.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Real ass stories. Indeed, you know, because you know what
authenticity you can you can taste it and more to
the point inauthenticity. You can feel it, and it's that
whole thing like real recognizes real and the queen Bees
(54:13):
of Tybee County that's real. I can tell. Like it
feels like it comes from a real place. There's no artifice.
It's like even if like you, Kyle, didn't experience this
particular thing, you're drawing from someone or something that you know,
(54:33):
you know, like none of it feels like made up
whole cloth. It comes from a real place. And I
appreciate that, and I think young readers will get a
lot out of this book. And it's not just for
(54:53):
you know, queer folks in fact, like you know, put
this book in the hands of your sist, white child.
Damn it, you.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Were talking about Black Panther. I'm not black, but that
movie made a chears and started walk on it forever, okay,
because it was so beautiful to see it, and it's
something not it's like Blacktopia. It did something for me. Right,
You don't have to be I thought I do to
appreciate that and for it to really around out your
(55:25):
world exactly.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
And you know, shang Chi, even though like the original
character was a little bit problematic, you know, it's like right,
it's like, okay, so you center a comic book around
an Asian person and he's automatically got to be the
best at kung fu because that's what he does. But
(55:53):
at least in the move and this and and and
this is a testament to the actor. He felt like
he did not feel like a caricature. Well right, exactly, dignity,
you know, coming from a real place, not asking for
too much.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Well, Kyle Casey Chow, this has been fabulous.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
I could sit and talk with you all day. It up.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, and again I love, love, love love your book,
and I cannot recommend it highly enough. It's a delightful story.
It's an easy read. You get in, you get enveloped
and engrossed in the story so easily. And like I said,
(56:47):
you know, every time I picked it up, Bam, fifty
pages done went by.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
But yeah, I'll say it to you, it's like kind
of betrayed, just like queer joy gay hug, big gay hug.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Yes, yeah, I love it. Okay, So if we wanted
to learn more about you and your goings on, and
more important, most importantly, where to buy the book, where
would we go?
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Well, here's the book catch. I'm just kidding. You can
buy my book anywhere books are sold, so Amazon Bookshop,
Barnes and Noble, or a beloved local indie bookstore. And
you can find more about me at kylecaseychu dot com
or on Instagram at at Panda Dulce Fabulous.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
And I will make sure to include all of that
information in the notes to this episode, because we should
all know more about you and what you do because
you're fascinating period. Oh likewise, that's right, and so I
can't wait to have you back on the show. To
(58:05):
talk about the series that comes from it. You know
what I'm saying, So let's do it, I mean, or
whatever the hell else you're doing next, because you know,
I see nothing but great things for you.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
Yeah, there's there's a second book coming out, a sequel
to Queen bee Us really. Yeah. It's about a celebrity
drag queen and goes missing and Derek and JJ have
to find her work. I know it's not cool. And
then there's a picture book about drag legend Jose Sorry,
who founded the Imperial Court System which is a network
(58:45):
drag Royalty who raised money for LGBG causes. So I
think both are coming out next year or some time.
That's okay, It's a lot.
Speaker 1 (58:59):
I'm down. Oh I'm really looking forward to the sequel.
By the way, so Gila, I'm hooked. Well, thank you
so much for joining us at the Full Circle table
and I can't wait to chat again.
Speaker 2 (59:16):
Charles, thank you and you have a wonderful day too.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
Full Circle is a Never Skurred Productions podcast hosted by
Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal, produced and edited by
Never Scurred Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal.
Our theme in music is by the jingle Mary's All Names, pictures, music, audio,
and video clips are registered trademarks and or copyrights of
their respective copyright holders.
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