Alek Minassian — FULL police interrogation of Canadian Terrorist Attacker CREEPY! - True Crime Podcast 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Alright.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
For the record, my name is Detective Rob Thomas. My
badge number is three nine one seven. I'm attached to
the Toronto three Sex Crimes Unit uh polygraph.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Today's date is.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
UH Monday, April twenty third, two thousand eighteen. Time by
my clock is approximately ten forty six in the evening.
I presently at thirty two Division on Eller's Lee uh
uh Drive. I believe uh uh the second floor soft
interview room. This is the only soft interview room in

(00:53):
the building. My purpose for being here today is to
interview gentleman by the name of Aleck menicm Uh Alex
felt a L. E X, last name M I Nassia
and date of birth of November third, nineteen ninety two,
with respect to an incident that occurred earlier today on

(01:15):
Young Street between Shepherd and Finch. It's my understanding that
uh mister Minisian Uh was arrested uh uh later this
afternoon UH initially on nine counts a first degree murder
that's been subsequently upgraded to ten counts of first degree
murder and fifteen counts of a tempt murder. Was presently

(01:38):
in custody here at thirty two Division. Any conversation that
I have with uh mister medic and today is by
no means meant to offend the individuals involved in this
uh this investigation, families, the victims, uh or for that matter,
U uh mister Menicia himself or his family. My only

(01:58):
purpose for conducting this interview days to come to some
understanding of the ball in this in this uh in
this incident.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Raise police rooms someway and you just have a seat
from the corner over there, okay, hold on, should just
have a s read there please?

Speaker 4 (02:31):
Thanks very much?

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Ally, Hello, alright, I'm good, I mean good. How are
you good? Dud? Do you drink water?

Speaker 5 (03:50):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Okay, thanks so much.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
How you feeling?

Speaker 4 (03:55):
I'm good?

Speaker 2 (03:56):
You feeling okay? My name's Rob Thomas. You doing okay? Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (04:03):
You probably have better days than this, I guess.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Hey. Yeah, well I am a little shaken to.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
It's how about usual day obviously?

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah? Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, Alec, you might
if I call you Alec? Yeah? Sure?

Speaker 6 (04:18):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (04:18):
What are your friends wrobably calling him a Yeah, Alec.
My name is Rob Thomas, though I want you to
call me Rob from here on you okay, okay, is
that Okay? Oh, okay, Alec, I want you to understand something.
I'm a senior detective with the Toronto Police. Can you
understand what that means?

Speaker 4 (04:36):
Yes, you don't.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
I'm a police officer, yes, Okay. I don't wear a uniform.
I wear a suit and tie because the type of
workout that I do. But although I'm in a suit
and tie, I'm an actual police officer okay.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
And I'm the one of the senior investigators on this case.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
I got called in for this, this this specific.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Case because of what's happened in the and everything else
that's been going on. Okay. Before we get started, I
want you to know that we're being videotaped and audio taped. Okay, Okay,
do you know what I mean by that?

Speaker 4 (05:09):
Yes, everything I sing and do is being.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Captured exactly on audio and video.

Speaker 6 (05:15):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Now here's what I want to do, Alec. I want
to talk to you.

Speaker 6 (05:22):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
We're gonna spend a good deal of time you got
to Okay, it's important that I talk to you, all right.
I'm gonna ask you questions, Okay. I can ask you
questions about your background, your education, your relationships with.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Your family and friends, work, travel, and.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
I can ask you questions about what happens today. Okay,
you don't have to answer those questions if you don't want. Okay,
you understand that, yes, But if you do decide to
answer my questions, okay, I just asked that you do
two things for me. Okay.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
The first thing is I ask that you treat you
with respect.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Okay. I promise to treat you with respect throughout the
entire night. Okay.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
All I ask is you do the same for me.
Is that okay?

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (06:21):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
And the other thing I asked Alec and I've been
doing this a long time, okay, and I typically never
have any problems with people anything like that.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
I don't expect to have a problem with you today.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
But if you do decide to answer my questions, would
you do me the favor and just speak from the
heart okay, and just be truthful?

Speaker 4 (06:40):
That's all I ask.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Does that sound fair?

Speaker 6 (06:42):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Is that okay?

Speaker 6 (06:43):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Now my understanding is.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Earlier today, there was an incident and you ultimately got
arrested by a police officer. Do you remember that. I
do remember getting arrested, okay. Do you remember it was
a uniform police officer who arrested you. So, in other words,
he was a police officer in a uniform.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yes, I remember he had a uniform.

Speaker 6 (07:16):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
And I know there was a bit of an altercation.
We'll get into that, but basically I just want to
kind of cover off a few points before we get started.
My understanding is that that incident, the time that you
got arrested, you were honored near the area of Young
Street earlier today, is that right, And a police officer
told you that you were going to be placed under arrest,

(07:38):
and he placed you under arrest.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Do you remember that?

Speaker 4 (07:40):
I remember that?

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Okay? Do you remember what he arrested you for.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
I believe I may have been arrested for something similar
to murder.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Okay, okay, I believe it was a rich you arrested
for attempted murder. And subsequent to that, the officer placed
you in hancoff Is that right?

Speaker 4 (08:08):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah? And then he he placed you into the back
of his car, correct, correct, And then you were transported,
you were you were delivered here in a police car
to thirty two Division, correct. Do you remember that? And
following that you were taken into the building and you
spoke to I believe it was a gentleman, and he's

(08:33):
known as a staff sergeant. He would have had three
strikes on his on his shoulder with a crown. He
would have asked you questions about your your medical history,
whether or not you were suicidal, whether or not you
understood why you were being placed underrest.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
I remember that, okay.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
When you were placed underarrested, the officer read anything to you.

Speaker 4 (08:55):
I remember being read a the signs on the left
hand wall stating my rights.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
So you would have been read either at the time
you were arrested or certainly when you got into the
police station you were providing your rights to counsel. Is
that right? So it would have been something like this,
You're going to be arrested for attempted murder. It's my
duty to inform you that you have the right to
retain us for accounts without delay.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
You have the right to telephone and lawyer wish.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Also have the right day. Yeah now, yeah, now I'm
starting to come back. Yeah, okay, let me just finish here,
because it's important to understand this. You have the right
to telephone and the lawyer your wish. You also have
the right to free advice from the legal aid lawyer.
If you're charged with offense, you may apply to the
Downtarior Legal Aid Plan for assistance. One E one hundred
and two six five zero four to five one is
a toll free number little Pitch in contact with the
Legal Aid Duty Council Lord for free legal advice. Right now?

(09:46):
Do you remember that?

Speaker 4 (09:47):
Yeah? Now, I remember that.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Do you remember the officer reading you?

Speaker 4 (09:50):
Then, to be honest, I encountered a very I encountered
various police officers.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
I don't remember which one read me. Okay, all right,
but nevertheless, you were read. You were read we call
that caution. You read that caution.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yes, Actually, now that you mentioned the word caution, I
remember hearing the words that primary caution and secondary caution.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Okay, great, okay, great, okay. That's that's just because a
lot a lot of people can remember those words. Okay,
So that's what I read you is what we refer
to as a primary caution. So you don't let me
just get this straight. You're not sure if you remember
the police officer reading of those rights or if you
were read those that primary content in the building. Is
that right?

Speaker 4 (10:31):
Actually, I'm I'm pretty sure I was read the caution
inside that room within the building, okay, with the camera
on the desk.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Right, right, So we call that the booking hall.

Speaker 4 (10:45):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Do you know what?

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Do you know what it is that that I just
read you?

Speaker 2 (10:50):
What?

Speaker 1 (10:50):
What?

Speaker 2 (10:50):
What was read to you when you were inside the
booking hall? Do you know what what that means?

Speaker 4 (10:57):
I believe to my investments setting, it means, as you
said before, the rights, that I have my right to counsel.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Right, do you know what council? Do you know what
counsel means? A lawyer or attorney? Perfect exactly. Yeah. So
what that means is actually a couple of things. It
means that you can call a lawyer. One means at
the time you're replaced under rest, you're being placed underrest
for attempted murder. What that primary costume means that you
can speak to a lawyer, okay, or we call it counsel.

(11:31):
If you don't have a lawyer or a counsel of choice,
it means that you can call a free lawyer and
we call that duty council or legal aid. Okay. And
the one eight hundred and sixty five zero four or
five one is a toll free number that you can
call to speak to duty council or Legal aid for
free legal advice.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Do you understand. Do you understand what that means?

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yes, So it basically means you can call a lawyer.
If you don't have a lawyer, you can speak to
a free lawyer. Right. What it also means is that
if you were charged with an offense. So if you're
charged by the police for a crime and you can't
afford a lawyer, okay, you can you can apply to

(12:13):
the government to pay for your lawyer. Does that make sense? Yes, okay,
and we call that legal aid. Okay. Now my understanding
is the officers then provided you a secondary consume. Yes, okay,
it would have been something like this. You're gonna be

(12:36):
charged with attempted murder. You're not obliged to say anythingnless
she wished to do so, but whatever you do say
may be given an evidence. Do you understand what that means?

Speaker 4 (12:45):
Yes, means that I'm not required to speak, but anything
I think, Kendon you will be used against me.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah. That's the sort of the American version of the
Miranda rights. In Canada, I've watched too much. Do you
watch what would watch a lot of TV, like TV programs,
like crime drama programs on TV.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
It's one of the I used to watch a lot
of CSI. I love that show.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
But yeah, so in the States they call that the Miranda.
Anything you say Canada will be used against student corp law.
In Canada, we're a little bit different than the United States.
I like to think we're a lot different actually than
the United States. And what we have in Canada is
a different type of caution. Anything that you say can
be entered into evidence. So anything that you say to
me today, because we're being videotaped, how your take. A

(13:31):
judge can watch that, okay, and you can listen to
what it is you're saying. Okay, all right, now, did
the officers read any other cautions?

Speaker 4 (13:43):
I don't remember being writing any other cautions, to be honest, Okay.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
I want to read one word to you, and it
goes like this, if you've spoken to any police officer
or to anyone in authority, if any such person spoken
to your connection with this case, I want to clearly
understood that I do not want to influence you in
making a statement.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
Yes, actually I do remember being a red dad you do.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Okay, when do you remember being read dad while I.

Speaker 4 (14:11):
Was in my cell by a by a non uniformed officer.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
He was dressed formally similar to you all I see
at the super time.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yes, I believe he may have been a detective.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Okay, Well that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Do you understand what that means?

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Yes, means that any any statement, whenever I'm making a statement,
it shouldn't have been affected by something that one cop
said to me. It should just be simply whatever I
feel is the best as my defense.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
You're absolutely right, you know what. You hit it right
on the head, you know what, And I thank you
for that. That's that's very important. Yeah. Basically, what it
means is that if you've spoken to any police officer,
and you may not have spoken to a lot of
police officers, but I know a lot of police officers
have spoken to you today, everything from the uniformed officer
who arrested you, right through to the booking officers who

(15:14):
collected your information when you came into the station, right
up to the officers who came down into the cells
and advised you of further charges that we're gonna be laying.
You've spoken to a lot of police officers today, Am
I right?

Speaker 4 (15:27):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (15:27):
How many and totally do you think you've spoken to him?

Speaker 4 (15:30):
I would say at least five?

Speaker 2 (15:32):
At least five, Okay. What that means that caution that
I gave you. What that means is that if anybody,
if any of those officers or anybody else for that matter,
I've said to you that you have to talk to me.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Okay, that's incorrect. Do you understand that?

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yes, okay, you don't have to talk to me. Okay,
So if anybody has told you that you have to
speak to me, I don't want you to listen to
what they they said, all right, asuming nobody's threatened you
or maybe any kind of promise. No, nobody's threatened you. No, No,
nobody's promised mad made promises, no for you. Okay, we

(16:09):
call those inducements. So nobody's nobody's offered you any type
of inducement I hope, or anything like that.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
So basically, what it means is that you don't have
to listen to what the police have said to you
previously prior to you meeting me here today, and that
if you do decide to talk to me, that it
just be like I said from the heart, and it
be truthful. We call that being voluntary. Does that make sense? Yes,
that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 6 (16:33):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Now in addition to that, I just want to I
just want to clarify one more thing. Did you did
you speak to the police and tell them what happened today?

Speaker 6 (16:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (16:50):
Sorry, I'm just needed need it to think about that.
Are you asking if I in any way confessed.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Well, I'm asking if you yes, if you can fast,
or if you made a statement in all to any
other police officer.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
I never made any significant statement about any events that
occurred before I was arrested.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Right, okay, So if you did have any conversation with
any police officer prior to being brought into this room,
all right, and that includes making a statement or confession. Okay.
I want you to ignore what you've said, okay, And
I don't want you to refer back to that conversation. Okay.
What I mean by referring back, I don't want you

(17:32):
to tell me about any conversations you've had with any
other police officers.

Speaker 5 (17:37):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
What I'd like to do is start fresh and call
this a clean slate. So from here on in, Okay,
I want this to be a fresh start. Does that
make sense?

Speaker 4 (17:48):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Pretty straightforward. Okay. Now, when the officer arrested you, did
he put handcuffs on you?

Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Right, And my understanding is the handcuffs work behind your back?

Speaker 4 (18:02):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Okay? And he did he padded you down? Did he
what I mean by that? Did he search you?

Speaker 4 (18:11):
I remember I remember being searched. Actually, I remember later
on as other officers came in, I was stood up,
brought to the cruiser, and then as I was leaning
on the car, I remember at that point I was
being searched.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Okay, all right? And so as far as the search
is concerned, what to what extent were you searched? In
other words, what did they search?

Speaker 4 (18:40):
What did the office It was a pat down of
the entire body to make sure there was no weapons
or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
I mean, okay, And how do you know that they
were searching for weapons and things like.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
That, because they I remember they were searching my pockets,
They were filling my chest, to my back, my legs,
so that would be an indication that they feel felt
I had weapons on me.

Speaker 6 (19:04):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Did the officers say anything while they were doing this?

Speaker 4 (19:11):
I don't remember exactly what they said other than just
stand still.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Did anybody tell you that they were searching for weapons?

Speaker 4 (19:24):
I do remember, although I don't remember the exact words,
I do remember there was a mention of being searched
for weapons. They may not have been speaking directly to me,
but they may have been speaking to each other.

Speaker 6 (19:36):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Did they take your clothes off?

Speaker 2 (19:39):
No?

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Did any part of your clothing come off?

Speaker 2 (19:41):
No? Okay?

Speaker 1 (19:42):
And so then from there you were placed in the car?

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Correct, okay?

Speaker 6 (19:45):
Right?

Speaker 2 (19:46):
And how many police officers were in the car while
you were being driven to the station? Two? Two okay?
And I'm presuming they were both in the front, yes okay.
And did you have any conversation with the police office? No? Okay?

Speaker 1 (20:01):
And then you arrived here at the station, yes okay?

Speaker 2 (20:04):
And how long? How long of a drive was at?
About ten minutes? About ten minutes okay? And did it
appear to be a direct route yes? No, other words,
they didn't stop for coffee or anything like that or no, okay?
All right? And then you came into a garage yes, okay.
We called that the Sally Port. That's what that refer

(20:26):
that is. And you were I understand you were taken
out of the back seat of the car.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
And then you were led to a desk.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yes, And there was an officer, a senior officer, a
higher ranking officer, was behind that desk. You probably didn't
know that, but we called that officer, the officer in
charge of the station. Do you understand that, yes, And.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
He would have asked you some questions yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
And my understanding is those questions dealt specifically with any
medical issues, yes, right. And whether or not you understood
why you were being placed underrest, yes, And and whether
or not you understood your rights to counsel or the
right your right to call a lawyer, yes okay. And
then from there, my understanding is you were taken to

(21:19):
the cell area, yes okay, And you were placed in
a cell and my understanding is that sells a bathroom
as a toilet and as a toilet and a sink.

Speaker 6 (21:30):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
And and then following that, now, there were a couple
of other events that are important.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
One was.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
My understanding is that you were given an opportunity to
speak to a lawyer. Yes okay, And you you indicated
the officers that you didn't have a lawyer, correct, and
that you didn't know who to call? Correct? And so
the officers offered you an opportunity to speak to duty council,
which is that free legal service that.

Speaker 4 (21:59):
I talked about?

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Okay? And MI understanding is you spoke to to duty
council crept okay, and you did that in private? Is
that right? Correct? In other words, there wasn't anybody listening
to your conversation, crept. Okay. Now, I don't want you
to tell me what the lawyer said, but did you
understand what the lawyer was telling me about?

Speaker 6 (22:20):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Okay? Are you satisfied with the information that he told you? Yes? Okay. Now,
following that, my understanding is, and I might might have
gotten the sequence of events mixed up, so correct me
if I'm wrong.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
There's been a lot going on today and I've been
very busy.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
But MI understanding is, at some point, if I'm not mistaken,
a police officer in a suit came down and he
told you that the he updated you with respect to
the charges that we're going to be laid Yes, okay,
And do you remember what he said to you?

Speaker 4 (22:53):
Yes? So initially, originally the charges were nine counts of
first degree murder right then laid on it got updated
to ten counts of first degree murder plus fifteen accounts
of attempted murder.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Exactly, Yes, that's my understanding.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
So my understanding is as the night progressed and as
we were learning more information, it came to our attention
that seven people have died, sorry, nine people have died,
I apologize, as a result of inst that occurred on
Young Street. And so subsequent to that my understanding, as

(23:28):
the officers came down and they spoke to you to
advise you that the charges would be upgraded to nine
counts of first degree murder. To understand what first agree
murder is.

Speaker 4 (23:38):
It's a pre mediated murder and completely intentional and considered
to be what's known as in cold blood.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Well, yeah, yeah, that's a fairly precise way of describing it.
What we call it premeditated. It means premeditated. You can
understand what premeditated means.

Speaker 4 (24:01):
Yes, it means you would mean that someone planned for
that murder in fat that's right, planning and deliberation.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
In other words, you you if somebody committed first degree murder,
they would have took the time out to think about
what they were going to do, sit down and deliberate
over the plants. So, in other words, they were going
to sit down and go over the details of the plan,
figure out what it is they were going to do,
how they're going to execute the plan, and so on
and so forth. To commit a murder plan and deliberate,

(24:30):
that's what it means. So there's a lot of thought
and energy that goes into planning to kill somebody. That's
that's what first degree murder is, okay. And so initially
it was nine counts of first degree murder? And do
you remember the officer that told you told you.

Speaker 4 (24:45):
That, I believe if I believe, if I remember correctly,
it was the officer wearing the suit.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
The officer wearing the suit who walked you in here today,
or walked you into this room. Yes, okay, All right, Now,
did he tell you that you could speak to a
lawyer again? Yes? Okay, So he gave you your rights to
counsel again, yes, okay. And an answer to that caution,

(25:16):
that first caution, do you understand did you understand what
you were being arrested for? Yes? Okay. Did you understand
that the charges were now being upgraded to nine counts
of first degree murder?

Speaker 4 (25:27):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (25:28):
And did you understand that you could call a lawyer again. Yes, okay.
And what did you say to the officer in response
to calling a lawyer again?

Speaker 4 (25:37):
I think I simply just acknowledged. I said, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
And my understanding is he asked you, do you want
to speak to a lawyer again? Do you remember what
you said to him? I believe I said no, thanks, okay.
That's the reason I did so.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
The reason I gave that response was because since I
had already spoken to a lawyer very recently, I felt.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
That I wouldn't be given new information that right.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
That makes sense, Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
That was my understanding.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
And then subsequent to that, Now again I might have
the the the facts mixed up just in terms of
the chronology, but my understanding is, did somebody come down
and take photos of you? Yes? Okay? Was that okay?

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Well, let's maybe.

Speaker 4 (26:24):
That actually happened twice, okay, And initially the first time
it happened was very at the very beginning of when
I got arrested, right, I sat down in a chair
I had front left, right, and later on in the evening,
I again had I was signing up in front of

(26:45):
that chair and had left, right, front and back.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Okay, Well, let's talk about that. So the first time
you had your photo taken front, left and right, where
was that done.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
Inside the room with the camera and the fingerprint machine
about a few about ten steps away from the cell
block I was in.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Okay. So they took you out of the cells, yes,
into what we call the print room.

Speaker 6 (27:11):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, And so the booker would have we called him
the booker, the individual that takes your photographs and takes
your fingerprints, we called him the booker. Did they take
your fingerprints at all? Yes, they did it, okay.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
It was at the same time that I initially had
my picture taken.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Okay, all right, okay.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
And and then from there you were returned to the
cell yes, okay. And then you were you were you
were your photographs were taken once again, or you were
photographed once again after that, So you were photographed a
second time.

Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yes, okay. Where did that take place in the same room,
in the same room okay?

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Was it by the same officer? No, it was by
another officer, yes, okay. And this time you were standing,
you said, yes, okay. The first time you were sitting, Yes,
When you were a photographed the second time you were
photographed yearstand yes okay. And the officer who took the
second set of photos, what was he wearing? He was

(28:08):
uniformed in a uniform okay. And was he the individual
who took Yeo in the sell.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
And then my understanding is your return to the cell,
yes okay.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
And then at some point you also turned over your
clothing yes, okay. When did that happen?

Speaker 4 (28:28):
That happened at the very beginning when I got when
I was brought to the police station.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Okay, all right, that happened at the very beginning. So
at what point was.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
It that was initially before I was put into my cell,
I was in some other holding room, right that just
had some chair there. At that point I had all
my clothes taken off just to be seized as evidence, okay.
And then then I was given my own we're back,

(29:00):
I put up a con and then I was given
an orange jumpsuit. And then two minutes later I was
taken out of the orange jumpsuit, and then I was
given this a white body suit.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Okay. And that was before you went into the cell, cracked, okay,
And so let's talk about that for a minute. So
when they took your clothes off, you were putting in
a room, you said, cracked, okay, And the officers explained
to you why they were taking your.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
Clothes as evidence, as evidence okay, and also just because
of concerns that I'm that I might have something within
the clothes.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Okay, So you were. We called that a level three search.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:41):
Actually, now that you mention, and I remember that exact term,
mean used the whole three search.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, yeah. So we do that in cases where we're
dealing with individuals we don't know, because we don't know you,
who were involved in relatively serious events, which unfortunate you are.
And so we do it for our safety as well
as your safety, as well as to ensure that we're collecting,
you know, all the evidence we possibly can, right, because
the idea at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Is we just want to come to the truth as
to what's going on.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
That's that's the bottom line, right, So we have to
do these things and sometimes they're intrusive, but we try
and do it in a manner that is as dignified
as possible. So when you when you had your clothes
taken off, were you completely naked?

Speaker 4 (30:25):
I was only completely naked for about ten seconds? Okay,
all right?

Speaker 2 (30:30):
And did you have some privacy in this room that
you're at room No, the room you had, they took
your clothes out, I act, Just to be honest, I don't remember.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
I think they are. And some officers there, okay, because
my face was towards the wall the entire time.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Okay, all right. How many officers were there?

Speaker 4 (30:53):
I think about four, I don't remember the exact number.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
To be honest. Were there any female officers?

Speaker 4 (30:59):
I don't believe, so, okay.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
Was anything being videotaped?

Speaker 4 (31:03):
I don't remember seeing a camera in that movie? Okay?

Speaker 2 (31:06):
All right, okay, But nevertheless, you were only completely naked for.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
About ten seconds, correct, okay?

Speaker 2 (31:13):
And then they gave you an orange jumpsuit, yes, okay,
and then you were then you were brought to the cells,
you spoke to a lore, your photographed.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
Well, actually I was switched into this white body suit
before being taken into my self, because that I was
only in that orange jumpsuit for about two minutes.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Oh okay, okay. And the reason behind putting you into
a white jumpsuit?

Speaker 4 (31:36):
Did they tell you?

Speaker 2 (31:38):
I believe if they did tell me, I don't remember
the reason, okay, Okay, The reason would have been to
keep your feet protected, right, because I don't think you
had ye had the boots on the orange jumpsuit.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Oh yeah, I remember they said something about that there
wasn't any footwear, right right.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
So from there you went into the white jumps then
you were pot placed in the cells, you spoke to
your lawyer, yes, and then you were photographed twice, correct, Okay.
In addition, the officer came down to advise you that
you'd be charged with nine counts of first degree murder, right, yes, okay?
And minderstanding is I believe it was the same officer.
At some point in time, he then came down to

(32:19):
advise you that you were going to now be charged
with ten counts of first degree murder and fifteen counts
of attempted murder.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Correct, okay.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
And during the sequence of events, at what point did
that officer come down and tell you that.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
The upgraded charge was after I spoke to my lawyer? Okay?

Speaker 2 (32:41):
How many times did you speak to a lawyer once?

Speaker 6 (32:43):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (32:44):
So it would have come after the first time you
spoke to the lawyer. It would have come after the
officers telling you you were being upgraded the counts would
be upgrade to the nine counts of murder.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
So it would have been it would have been it
would have been.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Sometime after you spoke to your lawyer that they told
you that you are now being charged with ten counts
of murder, first degree murder and fifteen counts of attemp murder.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
Right correct?

Speaker 6 (33:11):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Did the officers explain to you again the the your
rights as far as calling a lawyer?

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yes, okay, And what did you say to them response
to that?

Speaker 4 (33:21):
I simply said okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Okay, and anything else, uh no, my understanding. As the
officers asked you, do you wish to call a lawyer?

Speaker 7 (33:33):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (33:33):
Yes, they did? Uh the the second time, I said
it all thanks, And the reason, as I said before,
the reason I gave that ads So it's just because
I had very recently spoken to a lawyer, so I thought.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
That I wouldn't be given any additional information at that point. Okay,
All right, okay, all right, well here here's here's what
I'm telling.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
You here today, and support you understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Okay, You're gonna be charged with ten counts of first
degree murder okay, as well as fifteen counts of attempt murder.
I've read you your rights to counsel, your caution, secondary caution,
and so forth.

Speaker 5 (34:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Do you wish to speak to a lawyer? The choice
is yours.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
Yes, I will speak to a lawyer. If you want
to speak to a lawyer, yes, please?

Speaker 6 (34:16):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Did you have a lawyer or did you want to
speak to duty council?

Speaker 4 (34:21):
I'd like to speak to duty council place, no problem, So.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Can you just hold on? Just can you sit tight
for one second. I'm just gonna just exit the room
here for one minute, okay, if you just sit tight
and I'll be right back, and then I'll take you down.

Speaker 6 (34:34):
Where do you do that? I set the second sec second?

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Okay, this is just an audio recording your I does it?
Take this with me?

Speaker 6 (36:46):
Okay? Uh?

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Huh, alright, I'm not gonna have any trouble with you, right, yeah,
you promise me that, yes, Okay, I appreciate that. I'm
just gonna take you down the home. Let's put you
in a room, okay. And uh now they're may home homes. Okay.

(37:12):
Als has been placed in the Major Crime US number
one of them gonna called to the council. Paul, call
has been made to do the council and uh, we're
just waiting for a caller. I'll just give me a

(37:46):
sack callous other reason.

Speaker 5 (37:47):
Sure, okay, So.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Before we go any further, just tell me what happened
from the time we left this room until the time
we came back. What took place?

Speaker 4 (38:23):
My lawyer told me not to answer, okay.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Uh, I understand that, okay.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
And and I'm glad you told me that, you know why,
cause that that tells me you understand what your rights are. Okay,
But I need you need to understand something Okay. We
the police have a have a job to do, okay.

(38:50):
And and that job includes uh, collecting uh evidence, speaking
to people, trying to understand and uncover what's happened, what
took place, uh, and asking questions. And we're obligated to
sit down and speak to people like yourself. We're in

(39:11):
this position and ask you questions. All right.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Your lawyer's right, you don't have to answer.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Any questions, okay.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
But you need to understand something else.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Okay. I still have to ask you questions, okay. And
I'm going to ask you questions, all right, and I'm
gonna talk okay, And it's not I'm not I'm not
doing that to make you feel intimidated, or to make
you scared, or to say things that you don't want
to hear. Okay. But the bottom line is we have

(39:41):
a very difficult job to do, okay, And and this
is a very very important matter that we're dealing with
here today. All right, So I'm going to ask you questions.
If you don't want to answer them, you can tell
me you don't want to answer them, or you don't
have to say anthing at all. I totally understand that.
But as long as we can still maintain that respect

(40:03):
that we talked about at the beginning, is that cool?

Speaker 5 (40:05):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Is that you're not going to offend me.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Okay. You're not gonna make me upset or insult me
if you say, Rob, I don't want.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
To answer that question, okay.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Uh, if you're kicking over the table and screaming that,
that's gonna that's gonna cause a problem, okay.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
But I'm not gonna be offended, okay.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
And I understand okay, But you also need to understand
that I have I have a job to do, and
I have to ask questions. Okay, if you don't want
to tell me what we did from the time we
left the time we came back. Is it fair to
say that while we were out you spoke to a lawyer? Yes, okay.
And I'm going to suggest that the only person you

(40:44):
had any contact with was was was with me? Is
that right? What do you mean, well, you didn't speak
to any other police officers, correct, right, So I'm the
only police officer that was in your custody from the
time we left this room until the time we came back.
I took you down the hall to a room, placed

(41:04):
you into a small room with a seat. I made
a phone call or I had an officer make a
phone call to duty council. We originally placed one call.
We had to wait. We couldn't hear we didn't We
didn't hear back, so we placed a second call. We
still didn't hear back. I came in and I actually
opened the door and I informed you that we were

(41:26):
still waiting to call. Do you remember that? Yes, okay.
I think I asked you if you wanted to bore
the washroom as well. Do you remember that?

Speaker 4 (41:35):
I remember?

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah? And you said. What did you say? I don't
recall you said you didn't need to borrow the washingroom.
Oh now I remember that.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
Okay, all right.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
And then finally we got duty council on the line.
We put the council the lawyer, or we hand the
phone over to you. My understanding is his name was
mister Rodriguez. Did he tell you what his name was?
I don't want to call his name. Okay, he identified
himself as mister Rodriguez to me. I don't want you

(42:05):
to tell me the conversation you had. It's what we
call private. But I want to ask you, did you
understand the conversation that you had with mister Rodriguez?

Speaker 4 (42:15):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Do you understand what you said to you? Yes? Are
you satisfied with the information that he's provided you? Yes? Okay, great.
And then from there you had a lengthy conversation. I
only know that because from the time I handed you
the phone until the time you knocked on the door,
it was quite some time. I'm guessing it was over
ten minutes. Yes, at least over ten minutes.

Speaker 6 (42:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
And then I came to the door and I asked
you if things were okay. You knocked on the door,
so I opened it. You told me that you finished
your conversation with a lawyer. I asked, how are you feeling?
If things were okay? You said yes. I asked if
you wanted to boorid the wash room again? You remember that? Yes?
And you said no. And then we walked back right

(42:59):
in here.

Speaker 6 (42:59):
Is that right?

Speaker 4 (43:00):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (43:00):
And did anybody else talk to you? No? Did you
talk to anybody else?

Speaker 4 (43:04):
No?

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Is there anything I'm missing? No, that's pretty pretty straightforward. Yeah, yes, okay.
And then so my understanding is that's that's essentially what
took place from the time you were arrested right up
until the time you were brought into this room. We've
covered off basically everything. Family, yes, okay. Did I miss anything? No,

(43:29):
anything of importance if I'm not mistaken. The officers fed you,
is that right?

Speaker 4 (43:37):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Downstairs? And the cells yess what did they feed you?

Speaker 4 (43:41):
Sandwich and juice?

Speaker 2 (43:43):
A sandwich and the juice? Okay, there's what was that.

Speaker 4 (43:50):
I didn't have access to the time at the time
I was fed. Okay?

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Are you hungry? No? Okay? Did you have anything else
to eat to day?

Speaker 4 (44:01):
I ate before I was arrested, okay?

Speaker 2 (44:03):
And what time was that? I don't recall. Okay, do
you remember what you ate? I don't recall. Okay, all right,
If you're hungry at all at any point, tell you
just let me know.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
If you need to broil the washroom, you just let
me know. Okay. I'm gonna leave that up to you
to tell me, okay, because I'm not gonna know if
you're hungry or not. I'm not gonna know if you
need to know to the wash room. So I'm gonna
rely on you to tell me that.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Is that cool?

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (44:28):
All right?

Speaker 2 (44:30):
How much sleep did you have last night?

Speaker 4 (44:34):
About eight hours?

Speaker 2 (44:35):
About eight hours?

Speaker 1 (44:36):
And how did you sleep? I slept well? You slept well?

Speaker 2 (44:39):
And when? Where?

Speaker 1 (44:39):
Where did you sleep? Was it your home?

Speaker 2 (44:43):
I U?

Speaker 4 (44:45):
I do not wistance to that.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Okay, all right?

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Nevertheless, you slept well.

Speaker 6 (44:48):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I want to ask you something ale, and this is important.
Are you on any kind of medication right now? No?

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (44:56):
So do you take any What do you mean by medication?
Do you take anything anything for any physical injuries or
elements of any type? I don't wish to answer that, Okay,
what about medication for psychological issues?

Speaker 4 (45:11):
I don't want to answer that, okay.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
As a doctor, have you seen a doctor recently with
respect to any medical issues that I should be concerned about?
I don't watch to answer that. Okay, what about psychological issues?

Speaker 4 (45:30):
I don't want to adsk to that.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Okay, Alec, can I ask you this because it's important
And I'm saying this because I think I know the answer.
But am I wrong to understand that in high school
you were identified as someone with special needs? I don't

(45:57):
wish to answer that.

Speaker 7 (45:58):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
But you did go to Thornley Secondary, didn't you?

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Correct? Yeah? Okay, and you graduated from Foreign Day's that right? Yes? Okay?
And then following out understandings, you went to Seneca CREPT
and you were you're just finishing up if I'm not mistable,
you're just finishing up your your your course. Yes, yeah,
and that's the Center for Development of Open Technology.

Speaker 4 (46:22):
See don no, it's Seneca at York.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yeah. I realized that your program, the program you're taking,
isn't it cold center for you?

Speaker 6 (46:33):
No?

Speaker 4 (46:33):
That was actually something else?

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Oh okay, all right, what are you taking? What are
you taking at Seneca.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
Bachelor of Software Development program?

Speaker 6 (46:41):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Oh, so you're taking a degree.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yes, so Seneca offers a degree in software programming. Yes,
and that's something that you were aspiring to do. I
understand you wanted to become a computer software developer, designer,
software developer, yes, yeah, yeah yeah? And team leader?

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Is that not right?

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Yes? That that's that's that's what you were aspiring to
to to do. Yes, okay. And as far as work,
my understanding is you're not working right now.

Speaker 4 (47:12):
I don't wish to answer that, okay, all right?

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Is it fair to say that you you had some
employment lined up with a company called saradyin saraenon computers.
I don't wish to answer that. Oh, okay, all right,
I I I I. I do know that you live
at home though, and I do know that you have
a moment of dad. Right. I believe your dad and

(47:38):
correct me if I'm wrong. Is Uh?

Speaker 1 (47:40):
I probably am not pronouncing it right. But his name
is Fahi.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
I don't wish to answer that, okay. And your mom's
sona and you're you got a an older brother named
Haig and Uh I think he's what probably twenty eight?
I no mistake, Haig. I don't wish to answer that, alright.
How is how are things at home. Good with you

(48:05):
and your family. You're close to your mom and dad?

Speaker 4 (48:08):
Yes, yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:09):
And what about your relationship is your brother?

Speaker 4 (48:12):
It's good?

Speaker 6 (48:13):
Good.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
I understand you were born in Canada, yes, yeah, and
your uh, your parents k immigrated to Canada some time
ago and their reason for my Iraq, is it right?

Speaker 4 (48:29):
I do not wish to uh confirm or deny that.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Okay, all right, Okay, I just say that because you've spoken.

Speaker 4 (48:36):
To your dad and uh, he's.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Worried about you. I'll tell you that, okay. And I
ask you these questions and and I'm not trying to
intend it. I'm not trying to scare you that, okay.
The reason why I ask these questions is because it's
important that I get to know you better. All right.
We just met for the very first time, and you

(49:02):
don't know me. I am, I right, correct, right, And
I've never met you before, but I know I do
know a great, a great deal about you, and it's
important I get to know you better. And the reason
why I say that is because, well, this is an
important issue that brings you here today. Okay. That's very serious,

(49:28):
and I think I would be neglectful if I didn't
at least try and understand who you are. That's all I'm.

Speaker 6 (49:40):
Trying to do.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
You understand Yes? Does that make sense? Yes? Okay. Do
you feel intimidated right now? Are you scared or anything
like that?

Speaker 4 (49:49):
No?

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Okay, will let me know if you if that ever happens,
I will let you know.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
Okay, all right.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
There's anything I say that is you know, is offensive
or that you find offensive work, you know, if there's
anything I say that you don't like, well you let
me know. Yes, Okay. The reason why I said it
because I don't want to offend that. That's not why
I'm here. Okay, I do know this. My understanding is
you were in a special needs class in high school.

Speaker 6 (50:19):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
It was a small classroom specifically designed for people with
special needs. My understanding is that there were a number
of students in that class who excelled very well in
certain areas and didn't do very well or work were

(50:44):
they performed poorly in other areas. So there were, you know,
there was a mixture of individuals in the class, and
the idea behind being placed in the special needs class
was to focus on on the areas where they didn't
form as well. And in my in my conversation with you,

(51:07):
in my experience with with with people with special needs,
because I've been doing this a long time and I
have actually family members who uh you know, have you know,
special needs Because of a variety of different reasons, I
can recognize.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
People who.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
You know who who have special needs. And so the
reason why I'm saying that is because I want to
make sure you understand what I'm saying. Okay, I don't
want to be saying something that is going to confuse
you or make you feel uncomfortable or or make you
feel scared. Does that make sense? Yes? Okay, Now my

(51:55):
understanding is your dad's not working. You used to work
for Rogers, but he's gonna be he he's he's he's out,
he's out of work right now. But he's he's he's
looking for he's looking for work. H Is that right?

Speaker 4 (52:07):
I uh do not wish to confirm or deny that.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Okay, Uh, your mom works for uh compu Gen that's
a computer computer company. Yeah, I uh do not wish
to answer that. Kay alright, are you are you in

(52:30):
any kind of relationship right now with with.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
A with an intimate partner? Do you have a girlfriend
or A.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
I do not wish to age or that you know?

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Okay, alright? What about friends? Do you have a uh
A group of friends that you typically hang around with?

Speaker 4 (52:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Wish to edgecat. You don't wants to answer that.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
I used to say, uh, Jeffrey Wand would you know
who I'm talking about?

Speaker 4 (52:58):
I don't recall that name every one?

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Way, m I don't know, Call you know?

Speaker 6 (53:03):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (53:04):
What about uh uh Brandan Lee, uh uh Levin? I
don't know, call mkay anyway? Do you know uh a
fellow by the name of Michael White. I don't know
which to answer that, Okay, okay. What about a Michael
uh k a Transer? Sorry, yeah, Tanser, Michael Tanser. Do

(53:32):
you know Michael Tanzer? I don't wish to answer that.

Speaker 6 (53:34):
You don't, okay.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Do you have a Facebook account? Yes? You do?

Speaker 6 (53:42):
A way?

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Yeah? Is it am I corrected to to suggest that
the the name of your account, your account profile, is
your name?

Speaker 4 (53:53):
What I will say that it is c uh correct
to assume that most people have a Facebook account what
the same as their real name?

Speaker 6 (54:01):
Right?

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Right?

Speaker 6 (54:02):
Right?

Speaker 1 (54:03):
And do you have any other online social media accounts?

Speaker 4 (54:09):
That is my only online social media account.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Okay, so you don't want to mean my social media.
I'm talking about Facebook, Twitter, et cetera. Yeah, Instagram, Snapchat.
What are some of the other ones. I'm trying to think.
I'm I'm older, from fifty to fifty one years old.
I can't give you. Young guys have all the all
the all the the the the the different technological ways

(54:37):
of communicating. What are the one of the other ones? Facebook, Instagram?
I'm just thinking about my kids yours.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
Twitter, Twitter, you know?

Speaker 6 (54:45):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (54:45):
In that one.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Snap, face Time, FaceTime?

Speaker 6 (54:50):
Do you need an.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Account for them?

Speaker 4 (54:52):
I've actually never used that before.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
FaceTime. It's like FaceTime is like Skype, though, isn't it.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
I think it's easier, more convenient. I'm using sky.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Right because you communicate over Facebook, but it's a it's
a video form of communication, correct.

Speaker 4 (55:07):
I actually didn't know that I've I've just heard up
the name.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Oh okay, because I've actually used it. But this is
gonna sound strange. I've used it, but I don't know
how I've used it. People have actually culled me on
FaceTime and I've been on my uh my, I have
a little iPad and then all of a sudden, I'm
talking to somebody and I can see them and they
could see me, and so I, uh, one day you're
gonna get old and you're gonna realize what I'm going

(55:31):
through right now, because it's hard. It's hard as a
as a fifty one year old guy to try and
keep up with the technology. And by the time you
go from my age, technology is gonna be out of control.
But you're a you're a bit of a computer guy.
You like computers, ain't You're you're in a soccer program
and all that kind of stuff. Have you got a
particular area of expertise, like you do you do your

(55:51):
write code or what do you do? I don't wish
to edge that you don't wish to tell me what
you what you like to do and what you don't
like to do. As first, no, I don't what Okay,
well what we're going back to the social media accounts?
Do you I mean my understanding is you have a
LinkedIn account? Yes, yeah, okay, but you're not you're not
you're not active on LinkedIn? Do you know what I mean?

(56:14):
But I don't assign in uh daily right right, right right?
And the information you have on LinkedIn's fairly limited. Yes, yeah, yeah,
And uh, my understanding is your Facebook account? Is your
Your activity on Facebook's kind of sporadic. Sometimes you're on

(56:35):
and then you go off, and then you go back
on and close down your account, and then you open
up that account. Why why why isn't it I don't
wish to answer that. Am I right to assume that
you've closed your Facebook get down account down in the past?

Speaker 4 (56:54):
I may have done what yeah, oh okay, al right,
all right? When did you when did you close it down?
Did you say when?

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Or why? No?

Speaker 1 (57:00):
When?

Speaker 2 (57:01):
When?

Speaker 4 (57:02):
I don't remember? It was quite a while ago.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Oh okay?

Speaker 2 (57:05):
And how long was it closed down for?

Speaker 4 (57:09):
I would say at least a year?

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Oh okay, okay?

Speaker 2 (57:11):
And then, uh, am I right to assume that you
just recently opened it back up again?

Speaker 6 (57:16):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Yeah, okay? And when when? When? When? When? When did
you open back then?

Speaker 4 (57:20):
I think about a month or two ago.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
About a month or two were going? Okay? And how
many friends see how on Facebook?

Speaker 4 (57:28):
I don't remember the exact count.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Okay, are you acting on Facebook? My?

Speaker 5 (57:35):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (57:36):
My rate of us signing is inconsistent. Sometimes I might
sign in for a couple of days but then might
not sign in again for another week or so.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Oh okay, is there a reason for that?

Speaker 4 (57:49):
I just don't have a specific uh pattern when uh
deciding to use Facebook?

Speaker 2 (57:54):
You know, I I'm just thinking in terms of a routine,
like when I when I I actually use Facebook a
lot of surprise, being as old as I am. But
one of the reasons why I use Facebook is because
it keeps me. I don't post a lot of stuff
on Facebook because I'm not that time. I'm kind of
shy that way. I don't like to tell people what
I'm doing, but I like looking at what other people

(58:17):
are doing. And uh, I have I don't have a
lot of friends, but I have a few and I
can I kind of keep up to date with what
they're doing.

Speaker 4 (58:23):
And I watch and I.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
I love and so as a day kind of a
as a routine, I will, I will d I don't
wanna say daily, maybe daily. I go on to my
Facebook and I check and uh. But I don't post
a great deal of information cause I I for some reason,
I don't know in my mind, I just don't like
to to reveal what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Are you when you say you're on.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Facebook or are you What do you mean by that?

Speaker 4 (58:48):
I simply mean that I'm occasionally uh signing into uh
using minimally. Okay.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
So when you say using, is that you are you
posting stuff on on your web?

Speaker 4 (59:00):
It could be posting or it could be uh private
messaging uh and another individual on Facebook?

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Oh, I see, okay? And what kind of stuff do
you typically post.

Speaker 6 (59:08):
On your Facebook?

Speaker 4 (59:13):
There's no specific pattern as to the type of content
type post.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
You know, it's just random stuff depending on whatever you're
thinking of.

Speaker 6 (59:22):
The day or.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
I you could think of it like that.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
And messaging, are you what you know? What kind of
conversations are you partypically having on a messager? I don't
wish to ask that. Oh okay, alright, am I to
understand that you've you've had some military experience in the past.

Speaker 4 (59:43):
Yes, yeah, man, okay.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Was it in the Canada of the most Yes?

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Yeah, and uh my dad was a military My dad
was actually maybe he he joined when he was seventeen
years old, and in fact he was he wasn't eighteen,
So yeah, if I actually had to his parents sign
off to uh to uh to of a permission to
join the navy. So in the military, we have the
Air Force, the Navy, in the in the army, which
which which? Which one?

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Were you part of army?

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
In the army? Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
And where did you join ern trump?

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Yes? Oh really? And what made you decide to do that?

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
I wanted to try something new. I wanted to see
what it was like to join infantry.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Really, really, have you have you thought about pursuing the
military is a career?

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
I had thought of it at the time that I
had joined.

Speaker 6 (01:00:31):
Right right, right right?

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
And were you thinking about doing like enlisting or were
you thinking about being an officer and going through the
officer cadet program or what I had enlisted? Eve?

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Enlisted?

Speaker 6 (01:00:41):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
I see, so it was in the army. And what
particular like were you what particular? I know there's a
number of different is it professions or a number of
different trade trades? Yes? What particular?

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
Infantry?

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Oh, infantry? So you'd be if if called the task,
you'd be the fellow on the front line. Yeah, charge
in to the enemy and yes, just get your hands
dirty at that point.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
The end of the stack.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Okay, is that is it? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
As heard the trade description.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Okay, right now, right now? What so specifically? What so
within the infantry. Did you have a particular skill that
you wanted to develop or was it.

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
Just I was interested in learning how to use weapons,
beautiful specifically large guns.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
So large guns is in in.

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):
What like like such as assault?

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Right? Okay, so you're not talking about howitzers and and cannons, right, You're.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
Talking about like, yeah, because those you can actually hold
in your head.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Right? So what type of weapons would the the military
military be be training their their members in, because you
know what, I play a lot of Call of Duty?

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Right, if you play Call of Duty?

Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
Unfortunately, that game isn't realistic. However, I never, unfortunately I
never made it far enough in my basic training to
use guns. Uh, So I don't know what type of
guns the military uses.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Okay, what makes you think feel?

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
And I thought the Call of Duty was well.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
I know that the scenarios aren't realistic, but like the
weapons they use are realistic, aren't they? And uh and
the camel and the and the uniforms of self.

Speaker 4 (01:02:19):
Unfortunately, the logistics of how the weapons are fired are
not are realistic in realite. For example, there's a lot
of recoil when firing an assault rifle.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
Right right?

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Yeah, yeah, No, I imagine it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
You're not getting much recoil on your you know, your
your computer whatever. Definitely not the little handheld console you're
using a course that vibrates a little bit with that part. Yeah,
do you play it? Call it duty?

Speaker 4 (01:02:50):
I planned it in the past. Yeah, I enjoy that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
And there's another way I really enjoy was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Honor. Badge of Honor? Have I actually never played that?
To be honest, that was actually better. That's better than
the Call of Duty. Better Badge of Honor. It's maybe
it's I think Call of Duty is is a Microsoft
if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
I don't know, but this was another company.

Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
But Call of Duty is made by Activision.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Activisions Okay, right now? Yeah, so Badge of Honor is
something else you can see. It's another company. I don't
know what it is. But do you do you find
yourself to play a lot a lot of Division Sky
like you're twenty five years old?

Speaker 6 (01:03:27):
Imagine her?

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
Yeah, I actually I actually like playing video games, especially
the violent ones.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
The violent I just like to let out all my urges.
That's that's why they're there, right, do you What about
what other ones do you play? I played Halo a
lot in the past. Okay, all right, that's more of
a sci fi kind of futuristic stuff, it's not I
would say Halo is terribly violent. I mean, you're you're
killing martians and things like that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
At least you're not killing other humans. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Yeah, yeah, you play Grand Theftoo.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
I played it a couple of times on someone else's Xbox.
I don't actually own I've never actually owned any copies
in plantat Auto.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
So as far as.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
Being a gamer, how would you classify yourself? Are you
like I would classify myself as a hardcore gamer?

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Hardcore gamer? So in terms of hours spent during the
day playing video games?

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
How often would do? How many hours produce? I would
say an average of five hours per day?

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Okay, all right, okay, that's that seems.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
Real that you're probably does give even given my course loads.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Okay. And so that's with school, yes, So okay, So
and you were full time? Yes? Yeah, and you're in
a computer degree program, right, which is I imagine intense? Yes,
like hard work? Yes? Have you always been? And then
I'm I'm saying this because I've got a I've got
a nephew of mine who's actually in BC right now

(01:04:49):
at the University Victoria, and he's in a computer engineering program.
So I don't know if computer engineering is the same
or not.

Speaker 4 (01:04:56):
There's an overlap, but it's not the same thing as
computer programming.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
It's not. Okay, okay, but his course load is intense
and it's it's it's highly uh mathematical, a lot of
math involved, a lot of equations, a lot of problem solving.

Speaker 4 (01:05:11):
I never actually had to do that much math. And
really programming was mostly up coding coding.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
You write a lot of code, yes, Now do you write? What?
What type of language do you write? I've used C
C plus plus plus Java, and Java would be web based.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
Java isn't really for for writing, No, for websites.

Speaker 4 (01:05:32):
And Java is more generic.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Yeah okay, but C plus plus is the is the
the more popular coding for computer programs?

Speaker 6 (01:05:41):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Yeah, okay? And how what maybe you designed to get.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Interested in that? Well?

Speaker 4 (01:05:48):
I was kind of a nerd in high school and
I took and I took a course on computer programming,
and I took one course that was programming in high school,
and I've for that. I decided I really liked quoting
and I wanted to sign up for a programming program
in college.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Really, and then you just carried it through and you
got into Seneca and yes, we're good. Now was it
difficult getting into Seneca? Did you?

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Obviously?

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
I had to the only difficult part was ensuring that
I had high grades right near the end of high school,
right right, right right?

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
So did you finished grade twelve or did you want
to grade thirteen? I'm trying to think I finished grade twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Okay, they didn't have grade thirteen when you.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
Know they've already they already discontinued that long before I
started high school.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
That's what I thought. Yeah, that's what I thought that
because when I when I first met from BC, I
grew up.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Out west in Victoria. If you have you ever traveled the.

Speaker 4 (01:06:42):
Country, I've never been to BC before.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
You said, have you've been anywhere else in Buchanan. I've
been to Quebec. You've been to go back to visit, yes,
But have you been have you traveling r else? No? Okay, Well, yeah,
BC is in BC. This is back in nineteen eighty
four when I graduated, and it's still to this day.
They only have grade twelve. But when I moved out here,
when I was nineteen twenty years old. They had is

(01:07:09):
what they could call it always see they could hold the
eighty which was a GRETE fourteen, which was like a
university prep year. So if you were gonna go on
to university or college, you take Grade thirteen. But then
they discontinued that. But I can't remember if I don't
remember exactly when they did that. So I assume that
maybe perhaps you were still part of that. So you
get into Seneca and it's how many is it a

(01:07:30):
two year program? Fire? Program four? So were you in
your fourth year?

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
This semester was supposed to be my final semester.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Final semester, Yes, and you'd be graduating with a Bachelor
of Science Bachelor of Software Development BASH, a Bachelor Software Development.
Did you have did you have tests or any to complete?

Speaker 4 (01:07:55):
Or I already completed everything.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
So you basically you finished? Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
So when was your last day?

Speaker 4 (01:08:04):
My last day of classes was last Wednesday?

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Last Wednesday? And so when would your when would you
when would you be told that you would you you
you had graduated? When would your graduation day? I would
have found out my final grades to Saturday?

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
This Saturday?

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Yes? Okay, So were you required to do anything between
now and Saturday. Noah, so that's it, you're finished? Yes, wow, congratulations,
thank you, Good for you. And that's no, that's quite
an achievement. Yeah, you got a bot your science. That's
heck a lot more than what I got. I'll tell
you that I went to university and I I only
I only took well, I got a diploma in business
administration than I did two years in uh taking finance.

(01:08:46):
But I never completed. I never finished my university. I
wish I had, but I just it's it's a lot
of work and I couldn't do it.

Speaker 6 (01:08:52):
It was it was too much.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
Well that's good. Wow, that's uh, that's quite achievement.

Speaker 6 (01:08:57):
Have you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
So, but you hadn't lined anything up as far as
a job like work. You don't wish to answer that
you do, okay, all right, okay, I understand, I understand
my understandings. You're living that whole. You don't live on
your own, am I right? I don't wish to instagram?

Speaker 5 (01:09:19):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
But you have a good relationship with your momma dad, yes, yeah,
and as your relationship always been good with your mom
and dad? Yes, okay?

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
And have they been supported and loving throughout your life.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
Yes. And were there any difficulties in your life growing
up with your mom and dad? No? No?

Speaker 6 (01:09:36):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
What about with school? Were the difficulties with uh? With
with school growing up?

Speaker 5 (01:09:41):
No?

Speaker 6 (01:09:41):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Uh? And so when I talk about that, I'm talking
about like the school curriculum, you know, the you know,
going to school learning and and and uh, you know,
completing your assignments and things like that. Were there any issues?

Speaker 4 (01:09:54):
No?

Speaker 6 (01:09:54):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
What about the students? Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:09:58):
I know I never had any usues.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
You never had any shoot with any of the students
or anything like that. No.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
And I say this because you know sometimes these things
are important.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Were you how are you treated.

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
By the other students? I was treated well?

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
You treated well? Okay. Did you have any difficulties with
any particular group of students? No? No.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
What about difficulties with girls in particular?

Speaker 6 (01:10:31):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
No, no, no difficulties with girls at all?

Speaker 5 (01:10:34):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
No, not at all. How do you feel about girls
in general?

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
I am attracted to them, but you are?

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
Okay? Okay, so you're heterosexual? Yes, would be fair to
say that. Okay, that's that's important. Have you ever had
a relationship with a female. I don't wish to answer that. Okay, o, man,
In terms of females, I mean females and women. If
VI you're twenty five, you're a young man, right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
We'll call them women.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
In terms of your feelings towards women in.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
General, how would you describe that?

Speaker 4 (01:11:16):
I would say that sometimes I am a bit upset
that they choose to date obnoxious men instead of gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Yeah, so I have a well, I got involved in this.
I'll talk about later, but I so my understanding is
you have some problems with women who date obnoxious men
and these guys I'm thinking you're talking about the fellows
who are allowed arrogant, generally outgoing and popular with girls. Yes,

(01:11:58):
is that what you're talking about? Yes, okay, and you
have a problem with the women that take these fellas. Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Why is it they have a problem with with the women.

Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
Because I feel that it's illogical to be uh dating
such men when they could be dating a gentlemen instead.

Speaker 7 (01:12:16):
Right, right, right?

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
That makes sense. I mean, and I've seen that because
I had grown up and I'll tell you one of
the issues that I had as a kid growing up,
because I was this is gonna say you might not
believe me, but believe I was. I wasn't a very
big kid growing up. I was actually very very small. Uh,
and it took me a long time to to to
grow and so as a result, the you know, I

(01:12:40):
was kind of ostracized, you know what I mean, biostracized.
I was kind of cast a side, cast a side, yeah. Yeah,
and or I left out, like I wouldn't get picked
for teams, you know, or anything like that. You know,
it's kind of the last guy you ever see those
those you know those television shows where you know, all
the kids are lined up and they're getting picked for
you know, the teams, and they're always one guy left

(01:13:01):
out at the end. Yeah, that was me.

Speaker 4 (01:13:03):
I was that was I was that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
And uh and I never I was never very popular
with women, girls in in in school and uh. And
that kind of actually went on through the early part
of my my my adulthood until I started, you know,
getting taller and uh, mature.

Speaker 6 (01:13:23):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
But I understand exactly what you meant because I was
as a kid growing up, I was you know, I mean,
I was like any.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
Other kid, any other young man, right, it would.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Look at attractive girls, and I knew I was probably
just as smart. I was not smarter than some of
the clowns they were dating. But because for whatever reason,
I didn't have what it took, they wouldn't, you know,
they wouldn't date me because I think because I was short,
they wouldn't date me, and they'd end up dating, you know,
the tall jocks and the other you know, the good

(01:13:54):
looking fellows.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Is that what you're talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Yes? Yeah, then yeah, then you kind of resent these girls,
right because you know, that's kind of a superficial way
of deciding.

Speaker 4 (01:14:05):
You know, who is because of height is an unfair
You can't control your height.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Right, exactly, right, right, right, right right? What other things
can't you control?

Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
You can't control your looks either, exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Yeah, that's a good point. Although you're not a bad
looking guy, thank you, No, you are you a good
looking guy. You know, you keep yourself well, and you're
you're fit, you know, you're tall.

Speaker 6 (01:14:29):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
What other things can you control?

Speaker 4 (01:14:35):
I'm unaware of I'm not aware of anything else. You
can't control.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
What about like physical physical disabilities? Right obviously if you're
blind or you know, fortunately, you can't control that. Yeah,
you can't control that, That's what I mean. So these
are things you can't control or you know, other disabilities,
you know, if you're mentally handicapped, or if you you
know you're you have an amputee, or you know, there's
there's other other things that I and I and so

(01:15:00):
so does that it would would you include that in
those those issues that you can't control?

Speaker 6 (01:15:05):
Yes? And so?

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Uh so how long have you had this this feeling
towards uh women who are attracted to you know, this
particular type of guy?

Speaker 4 (01:15:18):
Ever since I uh started uh college?

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
Ever since you started college? Okay, and I I did it?
Did it?

Speaker 5 (01:15:25):
Was it?

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
Was it something that occurred as a result of a
single incident like did's? There was there one particular moment
in your life where it sort of struck home this
was a problem or was it just a uh.

Speaker 4 (01:15:39):
On a Halloween of a twenty thirteen, I was attending
a house party and I uh walked in and attempted
to uh socialize with some uh girls. Uh However, they
all uh laughed at me and uh held the arms
of the uh big guys instead. Really yeah, Uh that's.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Kind of rude. And how did that make you feel?

Speaker 4 (01:16:08):
I felt uh very angry? Yeah, that they would cause
I considered myself a supreme gentleman. I was angry that
they would give their love and affection to obnoxious moods
really really, and so.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
It was at that particular moment and that was sort
of the defining moment that made you think that you
know this is this is wrong and you know these
people are yes, unfairly treating you in the way that
they were. Yes, yeah, yeah, and that makes sense. I
appreciate you telling you that that that uh, that says
a lot and uh so uh So from that point on,

(01:16:45):
what uh what what what what did you start doing?

Speaker 4 (01:16:50):
I uh started thinking that it's unfair that s certain
uh and eyes will not get any uh love and
affection film.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
Rolls okay, and and what what what what?

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
What what do you mean by certain.

Speaker 4 (01:17:05):
Guys such as me that are that are very nice
and uh acting gentlemanly?

Speaker 7 (01:17:11):
Right right right?

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
Are there other guys? Did you find other guys?

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
Uh? Or there?

Speaker 4 (01:17:16):
I know of several other guys over the internet who
feel the same way, but I know they are I
would consider them to a coward lead to uh act
on their anger.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
Oh okay, and so on the internet where we're what
are you talking about in terms.

Speaker 4 (01:17:31):
Of uh specifically, uh, certain boards on a.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
For Chad, oh, okay, for Chad familiar with four chad,
So that's such as R I and K and UH
pool Okay, So describe four chant to mean what is?
What's I?

Speaker 6 (01:17:44):
What?

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
What is four chance specific?

Speaker 4 (01:17:46):
It's an image board, uh, where people can anonymously make
any post they want.

Speaker 6 (01:17:53):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
The the three boards that I have uh, uh frequented
R B which is the random board okay, y pol
or pool stans for politically incorrect, and R nine K,
which is basically means R nine thousand. It's in effect
they're saying, we're all robots anyone who messages on that board.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
So those are the three boards that you you you
go to? Yes to Is it fair to say you chat?

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
You chat, so you chat with other similar minded people?

Speaker 4 (01:18:29):
Yes? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
So four chan is a website and within four chan
there are these messaging boards, yes, and they're individual boards
specific to like minded people.

Speaker 4 (01:18:39):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
And how many boards would there be?

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
A total? In fortune?

Speaker 4 (01:18:42):
There are about fifty different boards on four chan, but
most of them are actually unrelated to the to be
R nine K or a pool. Therefore, I don't bother
going on that because they because in fact, if you try,
if I try to talk about topics that I was
talking about on those other boards, my poster get deleted.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Oh okay, alright.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
So there's moderators, yes, uh who who monitor the the
conversations and they, you know, they they kind of police
the the conversations. And if you're not part of the
group conversation, they they they kick you out. Yes, okay, that.

Speaker 6 (01:19:18):
That makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
So when did you first started going on the four.

Speaker 4 (01:19:20):
Chen since uh twenty fourteen?

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
Oh okay, alright. How did you learn about fourtune?

Speaker 5 (01:19:27):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:19:27):
I was informed about it, uh by a friend at college?

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
Oh okay alright? And d wait, was he on it
as wellner?

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
Yes? Okay, what's his name? I don't wish to anner? Okay,
I understand, but nevertheless, it's a it's a friend who's
on four chane.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Was he in the same uh? Was he in the
same uh chat rooms?

Speaker 4 (01:19:48):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
Okay alright?

Speaker 2 (01:19:49):
And so you would you have conversation with him in
those chat rooms?

Speaker 4 (01:19:53):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
Oh okay, alright?

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
And so how many other people would be in the
in these in these three particular chapmans you had to
talk about.

Speaker 4 (01:20:01):
It doesn't actually tell you how many are in there
at once, because it doesn't as a software. It's not
actually a chat room. It's more like a message board.
Or anyone can post at any time by simply going
to the thread. Oh, they don't have to say there.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
Oh I see. So it's not live. It's not live chat. No,
it's a it's a thread. So when you say it's
a thread, it's a it's essentially like a forum. Right,
So you make a statement and then somebody will answer,
or they will reply to that's your statement you've got.

Speaker 8 (01:20:29):
Or they mira reply to the original poster or it
is known as op right okay, I see okay okay.
And so the general content of these three forums is
it my reason right word form or image board image board.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
So what's the general the topic within these message boards. Well,
on be the or the general topic is random. It's
literally any random.

Speaker 4 (01:21:06):
Topic. On r I and K it's they call us
space robots. The topic is usually frustrations at an inability
to lose ones of virginity, specifically for young males, poll
which is politically incorrect is the general topic is basically

(01:21:26):
political discussions with an alt right bias.

Speaker 1 (01:21:30):
Political sys with.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
An alt right So you're you're you're ultra conservative? Are
you like you know in the American Uh, definition would
be you'd be an ultra Republican.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
Yes, okay, so you what would.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
Your what would your political views be in the alt right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
Message board?

Speaker 4 (01:21:49):
I actually don't have any political views. I only am.

Speaker 6 (01:21:53):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
The only reason I have talked with them was just
because I enjoyed their style of conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
What was the style of conversation?

Speaker 5 (01:22:03):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:22:03):
It was very blunt and honest.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
So when what would it be?

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
What would it typically focus around or what would they
what would the typical conversations contain?

Speaker 4 (01:22:14):
Red pill truths about why women choose to date obnoxious.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
Men date the chads, the chads in this world.

Speaker 4 (01:22:23):
Yeah, basically the Stacy's going for the chats.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
Actually, the Stacy's are the yeah, the you know, the
the dizzy dumb girls dating the goofy you know jocks,
right right, right right? So you call them stacy's and chads.
I've heard that term before. Uh, and so that's in
the old right. Yes, that conversation takes place, you know
right as well? Yes? Does do other things take place
in the al right.

Speaker 4 (01:22:47):
Or red pill some some Alright members consider them to
be those cells to be red pilled.

Speaker 2 (01:22:56):
Is that like a matrix?

Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
Actually, it is, in fact that term was actually, in
fact came up as a reference to matrix taking the
red You can either take the red pill or you
can take the blue pill. And some of them, some
all Right members even consider them to be else, to
be a black pill, which in essence means they're a
migtaw men going their own way.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Oh okay, all right, okay, all right, okay, you're right, yep, okay,
so and so the so the conversations are surrounding. So
in those three message boards, they're all basically this or
maybe in the ICU in CL three. But in the
two message boards the alt Right and the R nine
k AR nine K and we call ourselves a space robots,

(01:23:41):
now space robots. But the conversations tend to be focused
around UH fellows who have been unable to lose their
virginity due to the staceys of this world. In the chats, yes, right,
and I've done a little bit of reading, and I
know a little bit about the involuntary UH celebrity celebacy, right,

(01:24:06):
being celibate, involuntarily cellidate. What does that mean?

Speaker 4 (01:24:09):
That means an celebacy means that someone who would never
performed has a sexual intercourse. Involuntary celebrity means this wasn't
your choice. I essentially are have been thrown into true
forced loneliness and you are unable to lose your virginity.
This is especially painful for young males.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
Right right, right?

Speaker 4 (01:24:35):
That makes sense?

Speaker 2 (01:24:36):
And there's other are there not other websites that cater
to this group of people as well? Forever alone? Have
you ever heard of them?

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
I have heard of the forever alone subreddit.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
And subread subreddit and you've heard of those?

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Yes? Okay? And what is it fair to say? Forever
alone is a is a is a forum within subreddit.
It is a subreddit. That's it's a definition of sub right.
It is basically a section of breddit.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
Right right right? Yes, exactly right?

Speaker 2 (01:25:04):
So we would be like the four chan that they
kind of big way Yeah, okay, all right? Are you
on forever loan?

Speaker 4 (01:25:10):
Yes you're on that as well?

Speaker 6 (01:25:12):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
And what other sites are you on?

Speaker 4 (01:25:15):
I don't I can't recall other sites off the bat
at the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
What's your what's your user name? In forever a loan.
I don't wish to answer that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Okay, Well what about four Chan?

Speaker 4 (01:25:25):
There is no username because you're always anonymous. You don't
register on four chat.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
Well, and that's what makes four chat popular.

Speaker 4 (01:25:31):
Yeah, because it makes it very easy. And you can
hide behind a computer.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
Screen right right, right right? Okay. And so when you're
on the internet, where you typically when you're when you're
accessing these websites right at home?

Speaker 4 (01:25:43):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
Yeah, okay. And have you got a computer at home?
You're obviously you do, yes, okay. Uh do you ever
access them with any other type of device?

Speaker 6 (01:25:53):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:25:54):
I have access to them from school before, from school computers.

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
And where's that at Seneca?

Speaker 4 (01:25:59):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
And and what department.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
In within the school library? Oh, that's common to all
the students. Oh, I see. Do you have one particular
computer that you go to it?

Speaker 4 (01:26:11):
I I've always gone to the computer at the northeast
corner of the library, just as a because I'm a
person of habit.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
Right right okay? And uh uh is there a number
on that computer or anything like that.

Speaker 4 (01:26:24):
No, but I'm always gravitated to the exact same spot
I'm able to. I just instinctually know this is exactly
where I've always sat.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
Every time, right right right? What type of computer is in?

Speaker 4 (01:26:36):
And Windows ten?

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
No? I mean in terms of the uh the hardware.
What does the make of the hardware?

Speaker 6 (01:26:42):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:26:43):
I'm not sure to be honest, I know it's a workstation.

Speaker 2 (01:26:46):
It's a workstation. So it's not a laptop crap. It's
it's like a it's a it's a box and a
and a and a flat screen crack.

Speaker 6 (01:26:54):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
And it's at the northeast corner Center North Prest corner.
So if if I was to walk into the library, uh,
where where would the doors be to the front entrance
of the library.

Speaker 4 (01:27:07):
They would be very uh close to the southeast entrance
of the uh S building of Seneca at York.

Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
Okay, this end the S building contains the library. Yes, okay,
and uh the southeast entrance and then you'd walk.

Speaker 4 (01:27:26):
Then you then you would as soon as you enterne
you would turn left. Then an when you walk then
you'll see the entrance to the library on the left
hand side.

Speaker 2 (01:27:34):
Oh I see, Okay, throw me a picture with the library.
Was like, I haven't seen the line seen the library?

Speaker 6 (01:27:48):
Yea?

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
Or where the computer is?

Speaker 4 (01:28:28):
That's essentially the them the mean layout so so so,
so I'm looking at this.

Speaker 2 (01:28:35):
That's north you're to at the top of the page
is northeast, west and south? Yes, okay. And where's the entrance?
The northeast corner is the entrance, yes, and then.

Speaker 4 (01:28:43):
And then and then this. This is a around the
corner where I.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
Know where where I prefer to as sit when I'm
using their computers. Okay, but put a circle or a square.
How would you show me where you where you're where the.

Speaker 4 (01:28:57):
I would put it here to be It's not actually
the very northeast corner because the actual northeast corner has
a bunch of macs.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
I am.

Speaker 4 (01:29:04):
I'm using the most northeast Windows computer there. Okay, just
put put computer beside that, right, Okay, do me a favorite.
Just sign the bottom there so I don't let that
you that's yours.

Speaker 2 (01:29:23):
So you're you're, you're, you're.

Speaker 4 (01:29:24):
You're kind of a fellow of of habit.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
You've got a routine, you stick to it. Yes, okay.
And the computer at home, where is that located?

Speaker 4 (01:29:34):
It's located in my room?

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
Oh okay? What type of computers?

Speaker 6 (01:29:37):
That?

Speaker 4 (01:29:38):
A Mac?

Speaker 6 (01:29:38):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
So? But you do like so you own the man. Well,
I'm I'm good with Max and Windows Windows. Yeah, but
you prefer Windows or yeah? Really, but you have a Mac.

Speaker 4 (01:29:50):
I use it for development.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
Oh so there's a difference in terms of the versatility
of the different of the computers. Is that? Is that
how it works for yes? Oh, I see. Okay, So
for develop you like the Mac, but for surfing the
web you like the Windows. Yes, okay, that makes sense
all right? And and your your Mac is it a
is a laptop?

Speaker 6 (01:30:11):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
Oh okay?

Speaker 4 (01:30:11):
What what?

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
What? What version is it? I believe it's High Sierra
if I remember correctly, it's a high I've never heard
of the high High Sierra.

Speaker 4 (01:30:22):
That's that's just the operating system name.

Speaker 2 (01:30:24):
No, I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:30:25):
Is it like a MacBook Air or is it a
MacBook MacBook Pro? It's a MacBook Pro. So it's the
thicker of the Yeah, okay, so it's a it's it's
it's about it's about three corners of Okay, what color
is it?

Speaker 6 (01:30:38):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:30:39):
Steel or gray colors?

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
So they come in the standard day and whereabouts in
your room? Is your is your is your laptop on
my desk? It's on your desk? You got a desk
inside your room? Yes, okay? How many bedrooms in your house?

Speaker 4 (01:30:50):
I don't understandswer that?

Speaker 1 (01:30:51):
Oh okay, all right, do you have your own?

Speaker 4 (01:30:52):
I just I just don't want to give up the
privacy of anyone else living in the house.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
I totally understand that. I totally understand that makes a
lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
And I appreciate you telling you that you know what
that you know and like I said, you know if
if that's if that's the issue, you please let me know.
Can I ask you this? Do you have your own bedroom? Yes? Okay?

Speaker 6 (01:31:10):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:31:13):
So uh so when you're on four chan? What specifically
are you and and you know four chan, when you're
when you're in your different websites and forever a loan?
Which let me ask you that story let me sound confusing,
which are you more active on in terms of four chat?
Four chan? Okay? When did you first sorry you mentioned

(01:31:36):
this and I forgot when did your first go on
to four chan? Twenty fourteen, twenty fourteen? And specifically when
in twenty fourteen.

Speaker 4 (01:31:44):
May three, twenty fourteen, And how are you able to
remember that? Because I remember that was a very significant day.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
Okay, what what they was? What was that?

Speaker 4 (01:31:54):
That was when Elliott Roger decided to essentially commit an
up a beta uprising, if you will, against the Chads
and the Stacey's.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
Okay, okay. And that was in the United States, yes,
And so when you're talking.

Speaker 4 (01:32:08):
About because in cells don't believe in borderers, right, okay, okay,
So locations are irrelevant to.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
Us, right, right? But for geographical reference only, am I
right to understand it? It occurred in California, yes, okay?

Speaker 1 (01:32:27):
And what type of.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
What type of uprising occurred?

Speaker 4 (01:32:32):
What happened? It was a beta uprising, a betaprising, although
he didn't call it a beta uprising at the time.
Someone else who was inspired by him, by the name
of Chris Harper called it a beta uprising sometime in
actually I believe it was October one, twenty fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
It was twenty fourteen.

Speaker 4 (01:32:51):
No, some someone else named Chris Harper Mercer in twenty
fifteen called it a beta uprising. I'm only retro actively
assigning the label a beat uprising to the Elliott Rogers moves.

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
I thought Chris Harper Mercer committed a beta uprising in
Oregon in twenty fourteen, which later fueled Elliott Roger to
do something similar in California in twenty sixteen.

Speaker 4 (01:33:22):
It was actually the other way around. Elliot Roger in
twenty fourteen, his what, he's right, I'm sorry, yes, his
what I'm retroactively calling beat Uprising inspired Chris Harpermercer to
do the same thing in twenty fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
You're absolutely right. Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. That makes it,
That makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 9 (01:33:41):
So it was Elliott Rodger, who is the father, basically
the founding forefather, found the entire movement, right right, So
explain to me this movement.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
What's this movement about?

Speaker 4 (01:33:55):
It's basically it's basically a movement of angry insults such
a myself, who are unable to get laid. Therefore, we
want to overthrow the chads, which would force the Stacey's
to be forced to reproduce some of the in cells,
right right, Okay, When you say in cells, involuntary celibate, selibate,

(01:34:17):
so that's just a short form for for for for
fellas who can't a leaid, can't can't have sex, right okay?

Speaker 2 (01:34:26):
And what happened in the Elliott Rodgers Uprising? What did
he do?

Speaker 7 (01:34:33):
I know?

Speaker 4 (01:34:34):
He uh used a gun as well as a vehicle
to convert the life status of certain individuals to death status,
right only to carry the message that in cells can't be.

Speaker 2 (01:34:52):
Oppressed, right, right? So it was it was an act
of rebellion, yes it was. And and out of frustration
and anger. You could call it an insul rebellion in
cell rebellion exactly right? Yeah, okay? And uh how many?
How many lives were converted from living to to dead?

(01:35:13):
Sex six in total? Okay? And uh? And he used
a vehicle in that, Yes, it as part of the
process of converting these lives. Yes, And uh was anything else?
Did he do anything else?

Speaker 6 (01:35:28):
I know?

Speaker 4 (01:35:28):
He used a knife for his first three murders, for
his first three mrs okay, all right?

Speaker 2 (01:35:34):
And and then uh, what about Chris Harper Mercer? What
did what did he do?

Speaker 4 (01:35:43):
He used a gun for uh all of his murders,
for all of his mercer.

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
And how many did he? How many did he?

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
How many people did he murder?

Speaker 4 (01:35:51):
I believe it was it was either eight killed and
ten injured or uh, ten killed.

Speaker 2 (01:35:55):
And injured, ten killed an injured?

Speaker 4 (01:35:57):
Okay, it was one of those two.

Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
Okay? Now were these fellas active fortune? Yes, they were
in Have you ever communicated with these fellas? Uh? I
actually have As a matter of fact, who who did
you communicate with?

Speaker 4 (01:36:08):
Both of them? Actually?

Speaker 2 (01:36:09):
Really?

Speaker 4 (01:36:10):
We used uh code names? Actually okay, what was it?

Speaker 2 (01:36:13):
What were they?

Speaker 6 (01:36:14):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:36:14):
Elliott Roger was named a val Thorion Valtharion Yes, v
A L T h A r io n okay?

Speaker 5 (01:36:24):
And uh?

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
What was Chris uh Harper Mercer's name? Space robot space
robot one word or two uh? One word?

Speaker 4 (01:36:33):
Well, camel case camebel case. That means the S and
the uh are Uh we're uh both capitalized.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
Oh, I see okay, okay?

Speaker 2 (01:36:41):
Uh and okay? And what was your what was your
what was your code name? Xbox light side Xbox light
side all one word all one word, camel cased no
only the uh first letter was capitalized the X. Yes, okay, alright?
And uh so what did you discuss with these guys?

Speaker 4 (01:36:57):
We discussed to our frustrations at society and being unable
to get laid and we were plotting a certain timed
strikes on society in order to confuse and shape the foundations,
just to put all the normies in a state of panic.

Speaker 1 (01:37:20):
And who would be a normy.

Speaker 4 (01:37:21):
Uh, normy means normal people. That would be anyone who
is considered to be normal by the unfair standards of society.

Speaker 2 (01:37:31):
But not the Chads or Stacy's. Cha.

Speaker 4 (01:37:33):
Chads and Stacies are actually above normies, or at least
they think they're above pertly.

Speaker 2 (01:37:39):
Yes, okay, all right, So it's it fair to say
you've got Chads and Stacy's up here, Normy's down here,
and then you've got celebs who believe that they are
being in in cells in cels, sorry, yes, in cells
who believe they're being.

Speaker 1 (01:37:53):
Suppressed or repressed. And so as a result, even the playing.

Speaker 2 (01:37:57):
Field, yes, the you know, they they they convert the
Stacey's and Chads from living to dead and to make
that we come out on us on top. Yeah, more
than so? Is there? So the targets who are the
targets for this uprising be all of the alpha males,

(01:38:18):
all the alpha males, so the Chads, yes, so that's
those are the people that that you want to kill?

Speaker 4 (01:38:24):
Yes, okay, all right? And who else any any of
the Staceys who do not wish to give.

Speaker 2 (01:38:32):
Their love and affection to the in cells, So they
they're a target as well, yes, to be killed, yes, okay,
and what about the normies?

Speaker 4 (01:38:40):
Normis, yes, we do, we do. We don't necessarily wish
to uh kill of the Normies, but we do wish
to subjugate them in order to make them understand that
the that our type is the more superior one.

Speaker 1 (01:38:56):
Right, right, So when do you say subjugate what do
you mean by there?

Speaker 4 (01:38:59):
Mean meaning either imprison them or put them in a
lower position in society so that they acknowledge the insuls
or the Peppie the frog types as the more superior ones.

Speaker 2 (01:39:15):
Okay, so you're just saying things that I'm not familiar with.
But he's he's a he's a mask on on four
chat and we uh, he's a mascot, yes, mascot on
four Chan.

Speaker 4 (01:39:26):
Yes, And that was I was using a metaphor. Okay, okay, yeah,
so he's actually a worship to quite frequently.

Speaker 2 (01:39:32):
Okay, okay, all right, So going back to the conversation
with with Chris and and uh Elliott, you're talking to
these fellas, Now, when when are you having these conversations? When?
When is when did these conversations start taking place.

Speaker 4 (01:39:48):
Before? Obviously before they're massacres because they're both dead.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
Now right right right right right right?

Speaker 4 (01:39:54):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:39:55):
And uh? And then once you learned of the so
what so was Elliott who was first in twenty fourteen?

Speaker 6 (01:40:03):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:40:03):
So what did Elliott? What did? What did you and
Elliott talk about? Let me let me I find you
very interesting? I do, and I find this fascinating, but
I want to make sure I don't go too fast.
Did you have did you have? Who did you have
conversation with? First?

Speaker 4 (01:40:22):
Let me ask you that Elliott?

Speaker 2 (01:40:24):
Elliott? So how did you learn of Elliott?

Speaker 4 (01:40:28):
Because on the we have private message each other on
Reddit after I saw one of his posts and we
just talked about each other and got to know each other,
and we found each other very interesting. We both have
the same frustrations at society despite being separated by distance,

(01:40:51):
so far.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
Apart, right right right? Did you ever visit him?

Speaker 4 (01:40:55):
I know, but I wish I could have.

Speaker 2 (01:40:57):
Yeah. Did you ever come up visit you?

Speaker 4 (01:40:59):
No, but I wish he did.

Speaker 2 (01:41:00):
Yeah? Yeah. Did you ever communicate outside of Fortune? Did
you ever communicate on anything else else? Reddit was the
first place we communicated?

Speaker 5 (01:41:09):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
Okay? And was it forever alone?

Speaker 4 (01:41:13):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:41:14):
In that in that subgroup, Yes, okay. And did you
ever communicate on any other medium or platform.

Speaker 4 (01:41:24):
Other than Reddit and fourtune?

Speaker 6 (01:41:26):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
No, So you didn't skype or call on the phone.
And you're like, no, okay, So how long does this
conversation with Elliott? When? So when specifically you may have
mentioned a nightmare? I wasn't listening. When specifically did your
first contact or have contact with Elliott January of twenty fourteen,
twenty fourteen? And when did you stop having communication.

Speaker 4 (01:41:48):
With him as soon as he was deceased? Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:41:52):
So his act I know took place in twenty fourteen,
but I wasn't aware of the exact day. What day
was it?

Speaker 4 (01:41:57):
May twenty fourteen, twenty third?

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
Yeah, you said that. So when did you last speak
to him? Me?

Speaker 4 (01:42:05):
Twenty May twentieth, And so what did he tell you?

Speaker 2 (01:42:08):
He told me that.

Speaker 4 (01:42:11):
He has to go. He must, He is on a
very important mission and he might not make it back alive.

Speaker 1 (01:42:20):
And so what did you say to him.

Speaker 4 (01:42:23):
I kind of had an idea in my head of
what he was planning, but I didn't want to think
it was true at the time, so I said, So
I replied and said, I wish you good luck with that, right, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:42:36):
Okay, And were there anybody?

Speaker 4 (01:42:39):
Was there anybody else in this conversation? It was a
private conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
It was a private okay. So there's nobody else speaking, no, okay,
And you can have private conversations outside of four chun well,
like I said, it was a Reddit private message. Oh sorry,
forever yeah, forever alone.

Speaker 4 (01:42:58):
Yeah, because anyone can just private messages to each other
since you have a registered account.

Speaker 2 (01:43:02):
Right, okay, okay, so you can go on the the
forum and the threads and leave messages and then you
can speak to people outside of the threads privately. Yes, okay.
I'm just bad because I haven't been on these these websites,
so it's and I've heard about them, so they're trying

(01:43:23):
to get familiarize with with with how it works. So
did was there was there as far as you were
were was there anyone else involved in uh? Elliott Rodgers' mission?

Speaker 4 (01:43:39):
I believe that he told me that other members of
four Chen were giving him encouraging support so that he
would have the courage to start his rebellion, right right, right, okay?

Speaker 2 (01:43:56):
And so you last speak to him on March twentieth,
I'm sorry, twenty fourteen. Yes, he commits his acts on
the twenty third of May. Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:44:07):
And when did you learn that what he had done?

Speaker 4 (01:44:11):
I saw it on the news later that night, later
on the twenty third, Yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:44:15):
And what did you think?

Speaker 5 (01:44:17):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:44:18):
I thought that I came to the understanding that this
is the mission that he had to carry out.

Speaker 2 (01:44:24):
Okay, all right? And anything else.

Speaker 4 (01:44:28):
I felt kind of proud of him for his acts
of bravery.

Speaker 2 (01:44:32):
Okay, all right?

Speaker 1 (01:44:33):
And what about how you started to change your thinking?

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
What was was any there was? It was any of
that going on?

Speaker 4 (01:44:42):
I was starting to feel a radicalized at that time.
You're worry okay, And what do you say radicalized?

Speaker 5 (01:44:47):
What do you mean by that?

Speaker 2 (01:44:49):
Meaning?

Speaker 4 (01:44:49):
I felt it was time to take action and not
just sit on the sidelines and to just fester in
my own sadness.

Speaker 2 (01:44:57):
Okay, all right? And so so this has started. This
is a process. It's not something that just I mean,
the day that you realized that you were a celeb
was the day that you were ridiculed by these girls
at this party, but not Halloween of twenty thirteen, right,
But then as you got to know Elliott and then

(01:45:21):
understanding his mission and what he had done, you began
to start become radicalized in terms of your thought process, yes, okay,
And so what takes place next as part of this
growing radicalization?

Speaker 4 (01:45:43):
To be honest, the planning didn't occur until about a
month ago. Most of it was actually just thinking, okay,
and day dreaming.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
Okay, all right. So the thinking and daydreaming when did
that start?

Speaker 4 (01:45:59):
That started about a month after the rebellion in May
of twenty fourteen. Okay, So I mean so in June
I started thinking about this stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:46:10):
And then that continued right up till about a month ago.

Speaker 4 (01:46:12):
Yes, which is when I booked the van with the
rider in order to use as a tool for rebellion.

Speaker 2 (01:46:23):
Okay, all right, So take me through that process. What
was going through your mind?

Speaker 6 (01:46:27):
And how was you know?

Speaker 1 (01:46:28):
What were you thinking when you were doing all of this?

Speaker 2 (01:46:29):
What was going on?

Speaker 4 (01:46:31):
I was thinking that it was a time that I
stood up to the Chads and Stacey's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:46:37):
And then so what happened? So this tell me what
takes place?

Speaker 4 (01:46:42):
So I booked the van, yeah, and then I just
simply wait until today and then I go rent the
van and then I drive it take it downtown to Toronto.
And I just start using it as a Okay, all right,
And so when you say.

Speaker 2 (01:47:03):
That, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 4 (01:47:05):
Meaning I the vehicle collided with several pedestrians, some of
who are no longer alive as a result.

Speaker 2 (01:47:14):
Right, okay, okay, okay. And so that's a lot of information.
Take me back to a month ago, you said, This
is when this whole planning started. Yes, okay, So about
a month ago, where were you at that point?

Speaker 4 (01:47:32):
I was at Seneca College, and I decided to phone
rider and book either a truck or a van with them,
and they had a ten foot van available. So I
figured that this is perfect I can not It's big
enough to have an effect, but not too big that

(01:47:52):
I can't maneuver with it. So the van was the
perfect medium size to use as my weapon right now.

Speaker 2 (01:48:01):
Okay, So you're at Seneca, yes, you said, And where
specifically at Seneca are you?

Speaker 10 (01:48:07):
I was at the college library and they made the
phone call at the college library when you made the
phone call, yes, So the library that you just drew
for me, yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:48:18):
And where were you specifically in the library these desks? Okay,
it's actually my face was facing north, so show me,
So show me where you were. I was sitting here.

Speaker 4 (01:48:34):
I'm seeing this way.

Speaker 1 (01:48:34):
Okay, so you just put the put rider phone call.

Speaker 4 (01:48:45):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:48:46):
So you're sitting there, and this is about a month ago.
What day specifically is this?

Speaker 4 (01:48:51):
It was near the beginning of April, so it wasn't
exactly a month ago it is, but almost a month ago.

Speaker 2 (01:48:58):
Okay. All right, So you're at your desk, and what
time it is?

Speaker 4 (01:49:02):
Midday?

Speaker 1 (01:49:03):
Midday? And you said you've made up a phone call?

Speaker 2 (01:49:07):
Yes? And how and and oh? How do you make
that phone call.

Speaker 4 (01:49:13):
By googling the rental number for uh, the nearest rider location?

Speaker 2 (01:49:18):
Okay? And how do you google the I just simply
said a rider rental locations on.

Speaker 1 (01:49:25):
My laptop, on your laptop.

Speaker 2 (01:49:27):
Okay. So when you say on your laptop, were you
using a school computer?

Speaker 6 (01:49:32):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:49:32):
Actually I was using a Windows computer because I cause
I know I said before, I have a Mac, but
I also have a Windows which I take to school
just because I don't want the Mac.

Speaker 2 (01:49:41):
To get damaged. Okay, So you've got two laptops, yes, Oh, okay,
what's your other laptop?

Speaker 4 (01:49:48):
The Windows back and Windows Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:49:50):
No, I guess is it? H? I mean what what's
the the name of the actual laptop.

Speaker 4 (01:49:54):
The make Uh it's an It's a Lenovo.

Speaker 2 (01:49:58):
Lenovo, Oh I see okay. And what color is that? Black? Black?

Speaker 1 (01:50:02):
And where is that in your bedroom?

Speaker 4 (01:50:05):
It's located in my closet.

Speaker 2 (01:50:07):
Oh okay, all right, you're you're where you're hanging your clothes? Yes,
above them, above it's on the top shelf. Yes. Oh okay.
How many closets in your in your bedroom? Just on
just a one? Okay. Uh So you take that the
Lenovo laptop to your school? Yes, at Seneca and in
the library at the desk, you google the nearest Rider, yes,

(01:50:30):
rental truck rental, yes, okay. And what made you decide
to choose Rider?

Speaker 4 (01:50:36):
Because I had looked up some reviews online. They were active,
people were saying a good stuff about them, because I
had looked at some other companies such as U Haul,
and people were complaining about them, saying that the trucks
never arrive on time. There's the customer support is terrible
out there, but they people love the Brider.

Speaker 2 (01:50:55):
Oh okay, all right, okay, that makes sense. Uh So
this was just review that you'd read online that made
you choose Rider.

Speaker 1 (01:51:02):
Yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:51:03):
Can I ask why were you looking specifically for.

Speaker 4 (01:51:05):
A trunk because it would be large enough to inflict
severe damage?

Speaker 2 (01:51:12):
Okay, that makes sense. Okay, So how do you contact
writer by phone? Though?

Speaker 4 (01:51:18):
Basically?

Speaker 1 (01:51:19):
And and what what phone do you use?

Speaker 4 (01:51:21):
My cell phone?

Speaker 6 (01:51:22):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:51:22):
Okay, so you've got a cell phone with you? Yes,
all right? What type of phone is that?

Speaker 4 (01:51:27):
Android?

Speaker 1 (01:51:28):
An Android phone?

Speaker 6 (01:51:29):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:51:30):
And that's an actual make.

Speaker 4 (01:51:33):
That's it's well, it's either your phone's either gonna be
Android or iOS.

Speaker 2 (01:51:37):
My phone is Android. What's the make of the phone?
Ass N four, ASSN phone four? Okay? And where's that phone?

Speaker 4 (01:51:46):
What do you mean by where?

Speaker 2 (01:51:47):
Where?

Speaker 6 (01:51:47):
Where's?

Speaker 2 (01:51:48):
Where is your cell phone?

Speaker 6 (01:51:48):
Right now?

Speaker 2 (01:51:49):
It was confiscated? Oh so we have it? Yes, okay?
And what's the phone under to you? To yourself?

Speaker 4 (01:51:55):
Phone six eight three six night seven one one okay?

Speaker 2 (01:51:58):
And so your call rider and uh from Seneca and
uh what uh rider truck rental? What what's what's the address? Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:52:11):
Seven hundred A corner Stone Road.

Speaker 2 (01:52:13):
Oh okay? And uh so what do you say then?
What's the conversation here?

Speaker 4 (01:52:17):
I just said, hey, how are you doing? I was
interested in uh renting a truck? I uh uh told
him that I wanted to just help a friend move
furniture around.

Speaker 2 (01:52:27):
Okay, alright, do you remember the individual he spoke to me?

Speaker 4 (01:52:30):
I believe it was either a Matt or Mike.

Speaker 2 (01:52:32):
A Matt or a Mike okay, and uh what did matter?

Speaker 4 (01:52:35):
Mike's say that, yeah, we do have some uh TR
trucks available and that uh we can rent 'em out
to you, and that he asked me when I wished
to uh uh rented, and I said April twenty three,
and one behold it it was available today.

Speaker 6 (01:52:54):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:52:55):
Can I ask why you chose April twenty three? I?

Speaker 4 (01:52:59):
Uh it was I felt it would be a more
symbolic if I had completed my exams.

Speaker 2 (01:53:06):
Okay, okay, okay, But apart from the twenty third, there
was no other reason. No, So if you had finished
your exams on the fifteenth, it would have been the fifteenth,
it would have been the sixteenth or the sixteenth, okay?

Speaker 6 (01:53:19):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:53:20):
Uh so yeah, yeah, how long is your conversation with
the fellow from Rider?

Speaker 4 (01:53:25):
About two minutes? Okay, because it was fairly quiet.

Speaker 2 (01:53:29):
Okay, all right? And then what happens? So you made
this phone call? Sorry, let me ask you this. Did
you reserve the truck? Yes? Oh you'd okay, and what
did What did you tell him in terms of reserving
How was that going to take place?

Speaker 4 (01:53:42):
I said that we agree that I could just simply
pick it up. Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:53:47):
Did you have to give a deposit or anything like that?

Speaker 2 (01:53:49):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:53:50):
I had to give It was about a four hundred
dollars deposit when I arrived at the location. Okay, so
that's not till later pracked. Okay, So you just reserved
the truck. There was no requirement for you to give
any type of credit card or form of payment.

Speaker 2 (01:54:02):
Correct. Okay, So you reserve the truck, then what happens?

Speaker 4 (01:54:07):
Then I simply record the reservation and then I go
on that day to pick it up.

Speaker 2 (01:54:15):
So nothing happens for approximately one month. Correct, So you
don't you're not thinking about this or I am thinking
about it. But I didn't need to make any further preparations. Okay,
So what are you thinking about? Well, you know you're
waiting to make these preparation or waiting to.

Speaker 6 (01:54:30):
Rend the truck.

Speaker 4 (01:54:32):
The uprising. I was thinking that I would inspire future
masses to join me in my uprising as well.

Speaker 1 (01:54:39):
Okay, all right, And how are you going to do that?

Speaker 4 (01:54:43):
I was going to tell people on a four chan beforehand?

Speaker 2 (01:54:47):
Okay, all right?

Speaker 6 (01:54:49):
And did you do that?

Speaker 4 (01:54:50):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:54:51):
I did?

Speaker 4 (01:54:51):
I did a one day in advance.

Speaker 2 (01:54:53):
Oh okay, all right. So did you actually go on
too four Chan?

Speaker 4 (01:54:58):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:54:58):
And post messages? Yes?

Speaker 6 (01:55:00):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:55:01):
And and what name did you or is there anonymous?
You said that, Yeah, that's that's the default. If you
don't specify name, it's gonna stay anonymous.

Speaker 2 (01:55:08):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:55:08):
Did you did you specify a name?

Speaker 4 (01:55:10):
No, it was anonymous?

Speaker 2 (01:55:12):
Okay, so it was anonymous? Yes? And what time did
you go onto four Chat? Approximately a three pm yesterday?
Three pm yesterday? Okay? And what specifically did you say?

Speaker 4 (01:55:23):
I was using a cold language to avoid detection by
the authorities. I stated that there will be a beta
uprising tomorrow. I encourage others to follow suit.

Speaker 1 (01:55:34):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:55:36):
And did you post on any other.

Speaker 4 (01:55:40):
Mediums, mediums, mediums, media, media, any any other just for chat?

Speaker 2 (01:55:46):
Just four chat? Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:55:47):
Did anybody reply?

Speaker 2 (01:55:48):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:55:50):
Quite a few people were congratulating me, because I suspect
they probably knew what I meant by what I said.

Speaker 2 (01:55:58):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:55:58):
And in fact, I remember there was one poster who
said he was from Edmonton and he would be planning
a similar uprising in November fifteen of this year.

Speaker 2 (01:56:10):
Of this year.

Speaker 11 (01:56:11):
Okay, okay, And what does specifically did he say in
terms of what he said, Hey, thanks man, uh he
give You've given me great inspiration November fifteen, Edmonton, the
continuation of the rebellion.

Speaker 2 (01:56:25):
Okay, okay, those are his words, Okay.

Speaker 6 (01:56:27):
I unders said. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:56:29):
And uh uh so that was uh the one thing
you did to as you were thinking about this and planning.
Uh what what else were you were you were you doing.

Speaker 4 (01:56:41):
While I was finishing up my school work as normal?

Speaker 2 (01:56:45):
Yeah, okay, all.

Speaker 4 (01:56:45):
Right, I still have to worry about my schoolwork.

Speaker 1 (01:56:49):
Right right, of course?

Speaker 2 (01:56:53):
Anything else?

Speaker 4 (01:56:54):
Uh No, nothing out of the else, out.

Speaker 2 (01:56:56):
Of the ordinary. So in terms of your uh, in
terms of the time that you spent thinking about this
over that month, if you were to break it down
into a percentage, I would say eighty percent of the
time was spent thinking about it, even while I was
doing other activities. You were you were, you were thinking
about it. I was very preoccupied with it, very preoccupied

(01:57:17):
with it.

Speaker 6 (01:57:17):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:57:18):
And in this thinking, what were you thinking specifically.

Speaker 4 (01:57:24):
About how how the foundations of the world would be
shooken by this event.

Speaker 2 (01:57:30):
Okay. And when you say that, what do you mean
by the foundations of this world?

Speaker 4 (01:57:36):
Meaning that I'm I was fairly confident that others would
be inspired to uh repeat the same actions as me
in basically just to overthrow a society.

Speaker 2 (01:57:48):
Okay, okay, And so this is sorry, Are is there
any other thought process going on?

Speaker 4 (01:57:57):
That was pretty much the mean thought process?

Speaker 2 (01:57:59):
And uh uh okay. So then it comes to today
or yesterday, the twenty third, right.

Speaker 4 (01:58:07):
Cause I guess some midnight's already passed exactly, so it
was yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:58:11):
So walk me through your day. You get up in
the morning. What time do you get up?

Speaker 4 (01:58:17):
Uh at about seven about seven o'clock, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:58:19):
And then what do you do?

Speaker 4 (01:58:20):
I have breakfast? I brush uh nothing unusual.

Speaker 1 (01:58:26):
Right, And then what happens?

Speaker 4 (01:58:28):
I check my emails, uh just to see if there's
any school school related stuff or anything that U such
as job offers, anything like that. And then I'll go
for a walk around the neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (01:58:41):
And then.

Speaker 4 (01:58:43):
Uh, then I went uh to the uh rider location
uh yesterday and UH just r took the van and
uh brought it out to Toronto and a and then
I committed the this rebellious act.

Speaker 2 (01:58:58):
Okay, alright, so you get up around seven yes, okay,
you said you have some breakfast? Yes? Is he brushed? Yes? Okay,
you go on your your computer? Yes?

Speaker 6 (01:59:09):
What computer?

Speaker 2 (01:59:10):
What computer? Will we own? Mac? The Mac? And you
said you check some emails? Yes, did you get any
emails that related to this?

Speaker 6 (01:59:17):
I know?

Speaker 2 (01:59:18):
Did you send any out in relation to this?

Speaker 6 (01:59:19):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:59:20):
Okay, So you're on your computer?

Speaker 4 (01:59:23):
How long you're on your own your computer for I'm
on there for several hours a day, okay, just because
mainly since I'm a software developer anyways, I would have
to use my computer anyways, right right, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:59:34):
And then from there you go for a walk. Yes, okay,
Now do you where do you? Where do you go
for a walk.

Speaker 4 (01:59:44):
Around a neighborhood?

Speaker 1 (01:59:46):
You just just walked around on es Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:59:48):
When do you leave the house?

Speaker 4 (01:59:50):
Usually at about eight am, after I've already finished breakfast.

Speaker 2 (01:59:54):
And have a rush and everything. Okay, And so you
leave the house at around eight am and just walk
around the neighborhood. Yes, And what are you thinking about
as you're walking around the neighborhood.

Speaker 4 (02:00:07):
I'm thinking, I'm just thinking about life, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:00:11):
Is your focus on your mission at all or anything
like that?

Speaker 4 (02:00:15):
Sometimes, to be honest, I'm not thinking about it one
hundred percent of the time. Sometimes I just tried to
when I walk, I just try to clear my thoughts.

Speaker 2 (02:00:23):
Okay. All right. Were you conscious this morning though, that
today was the day that this.

Speaker 4 (02:00:28):
Yes, I was very aware of that was very pressing
on my life.

Speaker 6 (02:00:32):
Very pressing.

Speaker 2 (02:00:33):
Okay. So how long are you outside of the house.

Speaker 4 (02:00:36):
Usually my walks aren't about half an hour to an.

Speaker 2 (02:00:38):
Hour, So is it fair to say that's how long
you wrote today? Yes? Okay. And from the time you
get up to the time you leave the house, do
you have conversation with anybody?

Speaker 4 (02:00:50):
You mean just yesterday.

Speaker 7 (02:00:54):
I know?

Speaker 4 (02:00:54):
No, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:00:55):
And when you're outside do you speak to anybody?

Speaker 7 (02:00:58):
I know?

Speaker 2 (02:00:59):
Are you chatting with anyone on your phone during this time?
Ball or anything like that? No, you're not messaging on
four Chan or anything like that.

Speaker 4 (02:01:07):
I did post a Facebook message right before the attack, okay,
stating that the in cell rebellion has already begun.

Speaker 2 (02:01:16):
Okay, And okay, all right, just end it with my phone, okay.
So let's just work up to that. So now you've
gone for a walk, it's pressing on your mind this attack.
You come back home be forty five minutes to an
hour later. So what time is that?

Speaker 4 (02:01:34):
I would say that would be a approximately nine nine o'clock.

Speaker 2 (02:01:39):
Yes, And then what do you do? Then?

Speaker 4 (02:01:44):
I just I sit back, I sit on my computer,
just play some random browser games until it's time to leave.

Speaker 1 (02:01:54):
Okay. And so what computer are mac?

Speaker 6 (02:01:57):
Mac?

Speaker 2 (02:01:57):
And what browser games are you playing? What do you
mean by.

Speaker 4 (02:02:01):
Just random games on the internet?

Speaker 6 (02:02:03):
Actually?

Speaker 4 (02:02:03):
I was actually playing a City Jumper. It's a very
old game. Okay, it's I just wanted to pass the
time until I left, Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:02:11):
And so while you're playing this game, do you have
a particular time in your mind that you're going to
do this?

Speaker 4 (02:02:18):
Well, the truck rental was at or van rental was
at one pm? Okay, So, and I already had a
Google Maps route plan. I left the house at eleven
twenty five. I took the bus to the rider location.

Speaker 2 (02:02:32):
Okay, So you're at home. I just want to make
sure I'm clear as to what was going on. So
you're at home, you're playing some online video games? Yes,
you knew that the truck runder was at one o'clock. Yes,
So you leave the house at twelve twenty five? Yes, okay?
And how do you leave the house? No?

Speaker 4 (02:02:49):
Sorry, eleven twenty five.

Speaker 2 (02:02:50):
Sorry eleven twenty five, eleven twenty five? How do you
leave the house.

Speaker 4 (02:02:54):
On foot? I walked to the bus stop, okay. I
take the bus stop. I take the bus set very
close to the rider location, okay. And then I walked
from the where I got off the stop to that
rental location and then I there. From there I picked
up the VAD okay.

Speaker 2 (02:03:13):
So when you what what bus stop did you catch
the bus at?

Speaker 4 (02:03:19):
I went on eighty five C westbound my house, and
then I transferred to another bus which unfortunately I don't
remember the number because I've only used that that other
route is not one of the main routes, so I
don't remember the number.

Speaker 2 (02:03:33):
Okay. So, but where's the bus stop that you would
have attended in order to board the bus?

Speaker 4 (02:03:38):
The first bus was Baby in sixteenth.

Speaker 1 (02:03:41):
Did you walk the Baby in sixteenth?

Speaker 2 (02:03:43):
Yes, because it's only about five minutes from my house, okay.
And so you there's a bus stop there at Babu
in sixteenth. Yes, and I'm assuming we're talking about a
York Regional transit bus. Yes.

Speaker 4 (02:03:53):
And what was the name of the bus, the number
of the bus eighty five.

Speaker 2 (02:03:56):
C eighty five C? And which direction is that bus
going west? It's going west on sixteenth no, yes, sixteenth? Yes, okay,
it's going west on sixteenth. So you catch that bus? Yes?
And how do you how do you pay to get
on the bus?

Speaker 4 (02:04:14):
Bus ticket?

Speaker 1 (02:04:15):
A bus ticket?

Speaker 2 (02:04:15):
Okay? And what time do you get on the bus at?

Speaker 4 (02:04:26):
About eleven thirty?

Speaker 2 (02:04:28):
About eleven thirty, it's about five minutes from your house, okay.
And then how long have a bus ride til you
get off and get on the on the next bus.

Speaker 4 (02:04:37):
It was about half an hour until the next bus, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:04:40):
So where do you get off the first bus? What
bus stop do you get off?

Speaker 2 (02:04:44):
Of Highway seven? And a weston Highway seven and weston okay?
And you board a second bus?

Speaker 4 (02:04:53):
Yes? And where did you board that second bus at
that same stop?

Speaker 1 (02:04:56):
Same stop?

Speaker 2 (02:04:57):
And what you don't know the number of that bus
I don't remember, unfortunately, okay, but that's it's a York
Regional transit bus. Yes, okay. And so what direction do
you do you head. When you get on the second bus, it.

Speaker 4 (02:05:11):
Went north and then it went east again, and then
it dropped me off about a five minute walk from
the truck rental location.

Speaker 2 (02:05:22):
Okay, So what street would have been at.

Speaker 4 (02:05:26):
I don't remember, unfortunately, because it was one of those
small neighborhood roads, but it was very close to credit
Stone Road.

Speaker 2 (02:05:32):
It was very close to credit Stone Road, Yes, credit
Stone Road. What would be the major intersection?

Speaker 4 (02:05:42):
I believe the bordering street was Pennsylvania Avenue. Was actually
a neighborhood road. It wasn't a major intersection.

Speaker 2 (02:05:51):
Okay, okay, so credit Stone and Pennsylvania, Yes, it was
in or around that location. Yes, And from there you
walk to the rider Unt truck rental yes okay, And uh,
do you have your cell phone on you at this time?

Speaker 4 (02:06:07):
It was coffee k oh at that time?

Speaker 5 (02:06:09):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:06:09):
Yes, okay, the same cell phone you just told me,
the Acer cell phone aces zen phone four right, that phone? Yes? Okay?
Uh do you receive or make any phone calls during
that time? No? Okay? What about Uh? Okay, well we'll
ask you that later. Would So you you walk to
the rental store or the the truck rental store. What
time do you arrive at the truck rental store.

Speaker 4 (02:06:32):
At about uh, twelve thirty.

Speaker 2 (02:06:34):
Okay, twelve thirty, all right? And so you walk in
and what do you do? I? Uh, I say hi,
my name is Alec Manasson.

Speaker 4 (02:06:43):
I'm here. I know I'm early, but I have a
truck rential at one. So then I end up filling
out some forms, signing some stuff. I wait a bit,
and then eventually I'm given the bad okay.

Speaker 2 (02:06:59):
And they individual you speak to, what do they look like?
He was wearing a bright vest, bright vest? Okay?

Speaker 1 (02:07:06):
What color of skin did he have?

Speaker 4 (02:07:08):
White?

Speaker 1 (02:07:08):
The white skin? Did you catch a name?

Speaker 6 (02:07:11):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:07:11):
No? No?

Speaker 6 (02:07:12):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (02:07:12):
How old were you think?

Speaker 4 (02:07:13):
He was probably in his thirties, ply his thirties. What
color was his hair? I think was dark brown?

Speaker 2 (02:07:19):
Dark brown?

Speaker 6 (02:07:19):
How tall was he? Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:07:21):
He was about five nine oh five nine. How much
did you weigh? I would estimate to me about one
fifty two.

Speaker 2 (02:07:28):
One fifty one fifty two one fifty two hundred fifty
two pounds. Yes, okay, very precise like that, okay, okay,
that's good, okay. And so in terms of his build,
how would you describe his build?

Speaker 4 (02:07:42):
It was kind of lean, but slightly muscular at the
same time.

Speaker 2 (02:07:45):
Oh okay, all right? Uh uh what are official hair? Uh?
He was clean shaven, clean shape, Okay. Any other's distinguishing
characteristics about him that would pup, you know, center him
out from anyone else.

Speaker 4 (02:07:59):
No, in particular.

Speaker 2 (02:08:00):
Okay, So sorry, what do you say? You're you're there early,
but you want to know if this truck is available?

Speaker 4 (02:08:05):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:08:06):
Okay? And in terms of the trucks did you have?
Were you given a choice of trucks?

Speaker 4 (02:08:13):
I was given. I was given a choice when I
was making the phone call earlier this month, right, So
I chose the ten foot one okay. And although it's
actually a van, but we were it was. It's sometimes
being referred to as a truck during the rental.

Speaker 2 (02:08:31):
Right, right, were so I'm assuming there were there were
various sizes of trucks vans available, Yes, okay? Was the
van the largest?

Speaker 5 (02:08:44):
No?

Speaker 4 (02:08:44):
It was actually quite small compared to the actual trucks.

Speaker 2 (02:08:47):
Okay, So what did you what did you Why did
you choose the.

Speaker 4 (02:08:54):
Van because it was larger than a car, therefore large
enough to be effective, but not so large that it
made maneuverability hard.

Speaker 2 (02:09:03):
Oh I see, Okay, that makes sense. And when did
you come to that realization?

Speaker 4 (02:09:07):
I was thinking about it before, I well, before I
meet the phone call. I was thinking I need something
powerful enough to be effective, but like I said before,
and small enough that it's manoeuverable.

Speaker 1 (02:09:19):
Okay, So you were thinking about that before?

Speaker 2 (02:09:23):
Was this when specifically? Did this this thought process come
in your mind?

Speaker 4 (02:09:30):
About two days before I meet the phone call?

Speaker 2 (02:09:33):
Okay? So is it fair to say you reserved a
larger truck, but then when you went into a rider
after thinking about the logistics of your mission?

Speaker 4 (02:09:46):
You know, I went to I just the van that
I used was the was what I rented?

Speaker 2 (02:09:53):
Okay, all right, okay, okay. So you're at the counter,
you rent the van.

Speaker 1 (02:10:00):
What is the individual that the salesperson say you?

Speaker 4 (02:10:06):
Well, he just asks me if I have my driver's license.
He asks me for a credit card. I uh, I
use it, card gets approved, and then he says, okay,
wait here, I'm gonna get the vent for you. And
then about ten minutes later he has it for me.

Speaker 6 (02:10:21):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:10:22):
So the you produced a your Ontario driver's license? Yes, okay?
And what type of credit card do you produce?

Speaker 4 (02:10:29):
Visa?

Speaker 2 (02:10:30):
And what a banking institution. Does it as a TD,
So it's a TD visa? Is it a Does it
a particular brand of TD visa? Does it have a
particular Uh No, it's.

Speaker 4 (02:10:42):
Just simply a TD visa, Just a.

Speaker 2 (02:10:43):
Simply simple T TD visa. Okay, And I'm gonna ask
do you know the number of your visa card?

Speaker 4 (02:10:51):
I don't remember it?

Speaker 2 (02:10:52):
You don't, okay, but it's in your name?

Speaker 4 (02:10:56):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (02:10:57):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:10:57):
So the fellow behind the counter takes your your identification
and the visa card. Presumably he he charges you for
the rental? Yes, okay? And how much was the rental?

Speaker 4 (02:11:09):
I don't remember, To be honest, I think I was.
I remember I had to pay formed all the deposit. Okay.
To be honest, I wasn't really paying attention to the
cost because I knew I would be able to cover
it anyways.

Speaker 2 (02:11:19):
Okay, all right? Did you sign any documents?

Speaker 4 (02:11:25):
I signed on a tablet?

Speaker 2 (02:11:28):
Okay? All right? All right? Were you given any type
of receipt? Yes? I uh.

Speaker 4 (02:11:36):
In fact, I put it inside a folder which was
in the van, which I'm assuming has probably been confiscated
as the van was probably searched.

Speaker 1 (02:11:45):
Right right, And so where was the receipt in the
in the in the van.

Speaker 4 (02:11:49):
Inside a uh some folder.

Speaker 5 (02:11:51):
It was.

Speaker 4 (02:11:52):
It was next to the steering wheel near the coffee
cup holders, okay, all right, same place for my phone
and while it were okay, all.

Speaker 2 (02:12:01):
Right, So you're you've now paid for the van, you've
signed for it, You've been given a paper receipt. And
then what happens.

Speaker 5 (02:12:14):
Then?

Speaker 4 (02:12:16):
As I said before, he tells me to wait as
he's getting the van, and so I waited about ten minutes, okay,
And then he brings the van and then I go
into it, and then I take it downtown to Toronto
and I started using it.

Speaker 2 (02:12:29):
Okay. So when you're presumably the van gets pulled up
in front of the entrance, is that Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:12:36):
He pulled it up next to the building and made
it ready to be able to easily exit out.

Speaker 2 (02:12:43):
Okay. And so do you do an inspection of the
van to make sure that there's no damage You're gonna.

Speaker 4 (02:12:49):
No, I didn't bother because the van didn't appear to
be damaged or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (02:12:53):
Okay. So he gives you the keys, yes, okay, And
what do you do at that point?

Speaker 4 (02:13:03):
I drive off?

Speaker 5 (02:13:04):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:13:04):
And what route do you take.

Speaker 4 (02:13:07):
I drove down a cornerstone sorry credit Stone, until I
reached I believe Highway seven.

Speaker 2 (02:13:18):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (02:13:19):
Then I went east on Highway seven, and then I
took the ramp to Young, and then I went south
on Young until I reached the attack location near Fitch.

Speaker 2 (02:13:33):
Okay. So what direction are you traveling? On Creditstone? South? South?
And then you go west on.

Speaker 4 (02:13:39):
The east sorry, east on Highway seven, and then I
take that ramp to Young, and then on Young I
continue south.

Speaker 5 (02:13:48):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:13:48):
So when do you leave Rider?

Speaker 4 (02:13:51):
I wasn't looking at the time when I left, but
I know I received the van before one pm, although
it was the booking was actually scheduled for one.

Speaker 2 (02:13:59):
Okay, all right, And how long does it take you
to get from Rider to Young Street, to Young to
the beginning of Young.

Speaker 4 (02:14:08):
Beginning the beginning of the attack, oh, to the near
Young in Finch. I would estimate about twenty to thirty minutes.

Speaker 2 (02:14:15):
Twenty to thirty minutes. Now, what are you thinking while
you're in the van?

Speaker 4 (02:14:21):
I'm thinking that this is it, this is the day
of our attribution, okay, and anything else in your mind,
just that that's that, That's the only thing that's my mind.
It's just burning in my mind, burning in your mind. Yeah, okay,
And uh so let me ask you this, because this
is really interesting. Why do you choose Young and Finch.

Speaker 2 (02:14:43):
I didn't choose Young in Finch particular.

Speaker 4 (02:14:45):
I was driving down Young because I knew it would
be a busy area, and then as soon as I
saw there were pedestrians, I just decided to go for it.

Speaker 2 (02:14:55):
Okay. And so where specifically were you your specific location?
Where were you when you just decided to go for it?
I was at some traffic lights, okay where.

Speaker 4 (02:15:14):
Actually I don't remember the only reason, In fact, if
if I hadn't, I remember some other I had heard
some other officer or mentioned Young in Finch before. That's
the only reason I really remember it. But otherwise I
actually wouldn't have remembered.

Speaker 2 (02:15:30):
It's. Yeah, I were Young in Finch. I just knew
that I started seeing a lot of people walking. Okay,
it might it might to stand. Am I correct when
I when I say that you knew at least you
were on Young Street? Yes, and you knew that you were.

Speaker 4 (02:15:42):
I specifically chose it beforehand, because that's that's why. Because
I even looked for that ram from Highway seven to
Young right, Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:15:51):
So nevertheless, you're at You're at a you're at a
stop light. You said, yes, you're at, and now are
you faced with a red light? You're stopped?

Speaker 6 (02:15:59):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:15:59):
Yes, But as soon as it turned green, I started going, okay,
and just walk me through this, okay, step by step.
So it turns green, and what are you thinking?

Speaker 4 (02:16:11):
I'm thinking that this is it. I see all these people.
It's time to go for it.

Speaker 2 (02:16:17):
Time to go for it. And what do you do.

Speaker 4 (02:16:19):
I floor the pedal, I speed the van towards them,
and I allow the van to collide with them. Okay,
and then what happened?

Speaker 2 (02:16:31):
Some people get knocked out of the way, some people roll.

Speaker 4 (02:16:34):
Over the top of the van.

Speaker 1 (02:16:35):
Okay, and then what happens?

Speaker 4 (02:16:40):
I continue doing that until in fact, actually, to be honest,
the only reason I stopped my attack was because someone's
drink got splashed on my windshield and I was worried
that I would crash the van anyway, so I decided, Okay,
now I wanted to do more, but I've kind of

(02:17:00):
been foiled by a lack of visibility. So then that's
when I pulled a turned right and I pull and
I saw the cops approaching, so I decided to pull
over and get out of my vad.

Speaker 2 (02:17:12):
Okay, how long do you travel from the moment that
you you decide this is it? The light turns green
and you.

Speaker 1 (02:17:23):
Mount the sidewalk?

Speaker 2 (02:17:24):
Is that right?

Speaker 4 (02:17:25):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:17:26):
To the time that you stop?

Speaker 4 (02:17:28):
How long in terms of the distance with that event,
about two traffic two or three traffic lights?

Speaker 2 (02:17:32):
Two or three traffic lights. Okay? So you turn right
at what street? I don't remember which straight. I wasn't
paying attention.

Speaker 1 (02:17:42):
Why do you turn right?

Speaker 4 (02:17:46):
Because I because there wasn't any inconvenient place to stop
at young and I and like I said that, there
was a lack of visibility on my windshield. I could
hear the cops coming anyway, so that the when I
turned that was a convenient place to pull over on
the sidewalk.

Speaker 5 (02:18:03):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:18:04):
And so you're now, so you're you're you're you You
physically stop your vehicle, Yes, you physically stop.

Speaker 1 (02:18:11):
So you end the assault?

Speaker 4 (02:18:13):
Yes, okay?

Speaker 2 (02:18:17):
And you end it because you can't see, yes, and
you knew the cops were coming, yes, okay. And so
then what happens at that point?

Speaker 4 (02:18:24):
I see a patrol car pull over and I hear
the cops screaming at me to get out. So I
get out, and I uh point my wallet at the
cop and it with the intent for it to be
confused that the gun said that I could be fatally shot.

Speaker 2 (02:18:40):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (02:18:41):
And was that something you were thinking about?

Speaker 4 (02:18:45):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:18:46):
I mean what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (02:18:48):
Even beforehead I premediated as an attempted suicide by cop.

Speaker 2 (02:18:53):
You wanted you wanted to be killed by the police, yes, okay.
Can I ask why you decide to yourself with a
wallet not something else?

Speaker 7 (02:19:03):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:19:04):
I was worried. I was thinking about purchasing a toy gun,
but I was kind of paranoid that some for whatever reason,
the idal rental company would ask to see my pockets
or any bag if I chose to bring that. So
I decided to go as stealthy as possible so no
one suspects anything.

Speaker 2 (02:19:24):
Okay, all right, unless you get out of the van
the officer or boorg Sorry it correct me if I'm wrong,
because I want to make sure it's right. You get
out of the van because the officer orders you out, yes, okay?

Speaker 5 (02:19:37):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:19:38):
And you want you want to die by by suicide
by police. So you point your wallet at him? Yes, okay,
and do you say anything the officer.

Speaker 4 (02:19:52):
I actually told him that I had a gun in
my pocket, which was untrue.

Speaker 2 (02:19:56):
Right, Uh, then I.

Speaker 4 (02:19:58):
Had twice, I stepped my left hand in my pocket
and attempted to do this just to a provoking reaction.

Speaker 5 (02:20:06):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (02:20:07):
That Unfortunately he didn't react, and then I ended up
being ordered to the ground. So I knew at that
point he's not going to shoot me. So I've lost
so I had no choice but to just get on
the ground.

Speaker 2 (02:20:22):
Okay, So just walk me through this step by step
because I'm a little confused. So you get out of
the van. So if you turn right, you can't see,
you hear the police. You know they're coming. You see
the police officer approach, You stop your vehicle. You realize
this is the end. He orders you out. You get
out of the van. Yes, Now your planning, Your plan

(02:20:43):
was to die by suicide by cop. So you said
you reached into your pocket.

Speaker 4 (02:20:49):
Well, actually, well, originally the entire time I had I
was holding my wallets with my right hand. But then
when I saw that that wasn't working, I reached into
my pocket with my left hand. I quickly pulled it
out and formed my hand into the shape of a
gun like this, okay. But they hope that he would
panic and shoot me. That of course didn't.

Speaker 2 (02:21:10):
Happen, okay. And you how how many times did you
do that? Twice with your left hand, and all the
while you had your wallet walt with the other had
right hand okay. And so, realizing that the officer wasn't
going to shoot you, what did you do at that point?

Speaker 4 (02:21:31):
I realized that I no choice but to get on
the ground because I was probably gonna be uh tackled
anyways or tased, and if I'm if I'm gonna live,
I'd rather not encounter physically a painful experience. So I
decided I have no choice but to admit the feet
at that point, right, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:21:46):
And so when you say admit the feet, what did
you do? I? Uh got on the ground, okay. And
and in terms of how how how did you get
on the ground?

Speaker 4 (02:21:54):
Well, I turned around, I got on my knees, and
then I got on flat on the.

Speaker 1 (02:21:58):
Ground, face down, yes, okay. And then what happened?

Speaker 6 (02:22:01):
Then?

Speaker 4 (02:22:01):
Uh, he put his knee in me uh on my
back okay. And then he handcuffed me okay, uh, and
another officers arrived then pinned me down as well.

Speaker 2 (02:22:10):
Okay, alright, and then from there you were placed in
the car and we already talked about that. Yes, okay,
that's quite an experience that it is quite a uh
not the usual everyday experience.

Speaker 4 (02:22:26):
No, no, it's not.

Speaker 2 (02:22:28):
No, it's not no, it's not.

Speaker 4 (02:22:32):
Did I miss anything? I believe that's everything, Aleck.

Speaker 2 (02:22:37):
I thank you for talking to me.

Speaker 6 (02:22:38):
I really do, I really do.

Speaker 2 (02:22:40):
I really appreciate that you've given me some insight.

Speaker 4 (02:22:43):
And uh I appreciate it too.

Speaker 2 (02:22:47):
How you feeling right now?

Speaker 4 (02:22:49):
I'm feeling good.

Speaker 2 (02:22:50):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:22:50):
We've been here a while. Do you need to borrow
wash him?

Speaker 6 (02:22:54):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:22:55):
Well yes, but if there's anything urgent, I h I'm
able to wait.

Speaker 2 (02:23:00):
Okay, can I ask you this, s uh sit tight
for uh two seconds? Okay, I wanna give another bottle
watch because I'm go thirsty. What I'll do is I'm
gonna step out and then I'll come back and if
there's any of the questions I have, I will uh,
I will uh, I'll speak to you about that. Okay. Okay,
I'm just gonna sign this here with my name and

(02:23:33):
it's the twenty fourth, now, isn't it?

Speaker 6 (02:23:37):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (02:23:50):
Okay, so title bevera back y.

Speaker 2 (02:25:02):
Hum, let me take your tea shoose and watching 'em.

Speaker 6 (02:26:20):
A number one w any back?

Speaker 4 (02:26:21):
Should I eat this here or might I allowed to take?

Speaker 6 (02:26:23):
Let me?

Speaker 2 (02:26:24):
Uh no, you'll leave it here cause I'll h you'll
h you'll well, we're gonna come back. Okay, I just
gotta put the yard on the here.

Speaker 6 (02:26:30):
This is kay interesting there your.

Speaker 2 (02:26:50):
Right okay, give me a couple of seconds, and then.

Speaker 1 (02:26:55):
Got to suit their right back.

Speaker 2 (02:26:58):
Do you want need to eat?

Speaker 7 (02:27:00):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:27:01):
I'm good, thanks for okay time.

Speaker 1 (02:27:27):
Okay, tell me what happened from the time we left
the time we came back, I.

Speaker 2 (02:27:32):
Mean just now. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:27:33):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (02:27:33):
I went to the uh washroom, I uh urine needed
in the toilet bowl. I uh washed my hands thoroughly
at the sink. Uh. Then I uh took the piss
some paper towel I uh used got to close the
top s uh. So we got the piss paper towel
in the garbage and I took two more uh uh
pieces of paper towel and you just got to open

(02:27:54):
a knob while holding the door with my foot. I
put the paper towel in the uh garbage, and then
we walked. Yes, do you wanted to ensure that there
would be no Germans on ahead?

Speaker 2 (02:28:04):
Uh? Did we have any conversation while we were on side?

Speaker 6 (02:28:08):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:28:08):
No, no, I I think I pointed out where the
bathroom was. I said, sits here on the right, and
then you went in and Uh did you speak to
anybody else? No? Anybody speak to you?

Speaker 5 (02:28:19):
No?

Speaker 2 (02:28:19):
Okay, I was thinking. Uh, you mentioned you went to Quebec. Yes,
Why where did you go to Quebec?

Speaker 6 (02:28:27):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:28:27):
I went to Montrebald, all of the mountain?

Speaker 2 (02:28:30):
No for okay?

Speaker 4 (02:28:31):
Yeah, for summer hiking?

Speaker 2 (02:28:33):
Oh okay, all right. When when did you go specific.

Speaker 4 (02:28:37):
I've gone a few times in the past, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:28:41):
And why Mount Trombon? Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:28:43):
Because I'd heard it's a good place for a hiking
in the summer.

Speaker 2 (02:28:46):
Is that what you do you like to do as
a hunt?

Speaker 4 (02:28:49):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:28:49):
Do you like a hike?

Speaker 6 (02:28:50):
Yeah? Okay? Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:28:51):
Who did you go on? Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:28:53):
I don't watch you to spress them line. Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:28:55):
How long are you there?

Speaker 6 (02:28:57):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:28:58):
Just for a weekhad Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:29:10):
You were in Buffalo? I understand I don't recall ever
being in Buffalo. Do you never recall it went to Buffalo. No,
my understanding is you traveled to Buffalo and you traveled
to another uh US state. I have been to Chicago,

(02:29:34):
in Boston, San Francisco in LA.

Speaker 1 (02:29:36):
Okay, alright, okay when did you go down there?

Speaker 4 (02:29:41):
San Francisco in La were Christmas of two thousand three
and twenty thirteen? Chicago was a winter of sorry, well
Christmas time of uh two thousand seven? Boston was a
May of twenty twelve.

Speaker 2 (02:29:58):
Okay, what was the reason to go? What was the
reason for going to the US? Uh? Justification hope for both?
K Did you wear the family?

Speaker 4 (02:30:06):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:30:07):
Okay? Can I ask what religion you are?

Speaker 7 (02:30:11):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:30:11):
I'm not of any uh particular religion? Y?

Speaker 2 (02:30:14):
You you don't you don't follow any of the nominees.
You're atheist?

Speaker 7 (02:30:16):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (02:30:17):
I see it?

Speaker 2 (02:30:17):
Okay? Can I ask what religion you were raised?

Speaker 4 (02:30:20):
I wasn't raised in with any religion?

Speaker 2 (02:30:22):
Oh okay? Uh it fair to say your parents aren't religious?

Speaker 4 (02:30:26):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:30:27):
Okay? Uh? Okay, So you don't have any religious ideology
or no?

Speaker 6 (02:30:33):
Uh uh.

Speaker 2 (02:30:35):
You know particular uh religious faith or following of any kind? Correct?

Speaker 4 (02:30:40):
Okay?

Speaker 6 (02:30:44):
You?

Speaker 2 (02:30:44):
Uh? Did you go to your prom No, I didn't.
You didn't go to your high school problem?

Speaker 6 (02:30:49):
No?

Speaker 2 (02:30:49):
Okay? Have you ever had a girlfriend?

Speaker 5 (02:30:54):
No?

Speaker 2 (02:30:54):
Okay? Can I ask you something? This is it's personal,
but uh, given what you told me, yeah, I believe
it's relevant. Have you ever had uh an intimate relationship
with with a woman?

Speaker 4 (02:31:05):
Unfortunately I haven't.

Speaker 2 (02:31:06):
Okay. Is that something you you would wanna do? Yes? Okay,
all right. Can you tell me why it is you
haven't had an intimate relationship with a woman.

Speaker 4 (02:31:19):
I feel it's because I'm at two nice?

Speaker 2 (02:31:23):
Okay, all right? Uh, have you you've made it? You've
made attempts, or I should say, have you made attempts
to have an intimate relationship with a with a woman?

Speaker 7 (02:31:35):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:31:35):
Yes, I did ask a girl out once, but she
rejected me.

Speaker 2 (02:31:39):
Oh okay.

Speaker 6 (02:31:40):
Where was that?

Speaker 2 (02:31:42):
That was in?

Speaker 4 (02:31:43):
Uh twenty twelve?

Speaker 2 (02:31:44):
Twenty twelve, So it was before the October Halloween of
two thousy thirteen? Yes, okay? And was that did that
leave you with?

Speaker 6 (02:31:54):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:31:56):
I mean, how did how did that leave you?

Speaker 4 (02:31:58):
I felt crushed at the point.

Speaker 2 (02:32:00):
Okay, I'm talking about the twenty twelve incident with the girl? Yes,
oh okay, all right, Alec, remember when we talked about.

Speaker 1 (02:32:13):
Telling the truth. Yes, and I asked you that, you know,
if you were gonna tell me your side.

Speaker 2 (02:32:18):
Of the story, which you did, and I appreciate that.
Has Has everything you told me been the truth?

Speaker 4 (02:32:23):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (02:32:24):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:32:24):
Because I'm gonna be honest with you. There are there's
one aspect of your story that doesn't doesn't cooborate with
with the information we have, Okay, there is there's one
piece to your story that is inconsistent with what we know.

(02:32:48):
Would you care to guess what what piece that is?

Speaker 4 (02:32:52):
I can't think of the inconsistency.

Speaker 1 (02:32:57):
How you specifically got to the writer.

Speaker 2 (02:33:03):
Truck rental. If I was to suggest to you that
we received information that somebody dropped you off there, whatever
you right, I don't wisht ad to to that, Okay.
The reason why I say that is because it's you know,

(02:33:23):
what you've told me.

Speaker 1 (02:33:24):
I believe you, Okay, But you know.

Speaker 2 (02:33:28):
I asked you to tell me at I asked you
at the beginning to tell me the truth. Then if
you were going to talk to me, all I wanted
was to be from the heart, which it was, and
to be the truth, which I believe that the majority
of reason. Okay, So what I'd like to do is,
at this particular at this particular juncture, if there's a
portion I don't want. I'm not asking you to reveal

(02:33:49):
anybody or names, okay, but if there's a portion of
your statement that is not true, okay, I'd like to
know because it's important. It's about the truth. You're very
forthright and up front about what's happened, but it's important that.

Speaker 1 (02:34:07):
We get the truth.

Speaker 2 (02:34:10):
Okay, I'm not asking for names, all right, But in
terms of how you got to the Rider dealership, were
you telling me the truth or not?

Speaker 4 (02:34:27):
I guess I was telling the truth.

Speaker 2 (02:34:29):
You were telling me the truth as to how you
got there, Yes, you're not lying. No, that's in other words,
the truth is you caught the bus. Yes, the truth
is that you did not get dropped off by somebody.

Speaker 4 (02:34:45):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (02:34:48):
Why is it that we would receive information?

Speaker 4 (02:34:52):
I sorry, I can't think of a reason why.

Speaker 2 (02:34:57):
I'm gonna be straight up with you. Your dad has
told us that he dropped you off at a Starbucks
coffee shop earlier today or earlier yesterday.

Speaker 4 (02:35:12):
Yes, that is what happened.

Speaker 2 (02:35:14):
Okay, So why.

Speaker 1 (02:35:15):
Wouldn't you tell me that?

Speaker 4 (02:35:18):
Because I was worried that you would think he was
an accomplice. Okay, I I he was not aware of this, okay,
I and I believe you. I believe you would say that.

Speaker 2 (02:35:27):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:35:27):
I want you to know your dad's not in trouble.

Speaker 2 (02:35:30):
Okay. And we're not you know, we're not looking.

Speaker 4 (02:35:32):
At your dad as being an accomplass.

Speaker 2 (02:35:34):
Okay, you have my word on that.

Speaker 6 (02:35:37):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:35:38):
But what's important, Alex, is that uh, I get the truth. Okay.
We we don't believe that your dad is an accomplice. Okay.
I'm not gonna lie to yet. Okay, you're not. Your
dad's your dad, your family is not any come in trouble. Okay,

(02:35:58):
But I need the truth. Okay, So let's go back.
You said you got up in the morning. Yes, okay.
What time did you get up in the morning? Ah?

Speaker 4 (02:36:12):
I believe it was at about seven.

Speaker 2 (02:36:14):
Okay. Now you told me what happened. Yes, it was
all of that the truth in terms of getting up,
having breakfast, brushing, yes, and then leaving the house around
eight to go for a walk. Yes, and you're out
for about an hour to forty five minutes to an
hour yes? Is that the truth?

Speaker 6 (02:36:30):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:36:31):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:36:31):
And then you come back. Yes, and then you were
playing on video games? Is that the truth? Yes? All right?
So from that point what happens.

Speaker 4 (02:36:42):
I I'm a give an a ride to the Starbucks
location and here Highway seven and weston okay. And then
from that point I walk to the rider uh rent
a location, and from there I cought my dad.

Speaker 2 (02:37:01):
Okay, so we're not if we go back to the
York Regional Transit System, we're not gonna see you m
boarding the bus cracked. Okay, So that was a lie
cracked Okay? So what did you tell your dad? Why
did you know?

Speaker 1 (02:37:14):
What did you tell your dad.

Speaker 4 (02:37:16):
That I told him I was meeting up with a friend. Now,
what what's your friend's name? Brandon Luian?

Speaker 6 (02:37:20):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:37:21):
And when what was the purpose for this meeting? What
did you tell you that your dad? The purpose of
this meeting to be uh, just to be able to
catch up pun old times, talk with each other and chat. Okay,
that's what we dad, that's what all right? Well, thank
you for talking about I wanna ask you this, Okay.

(02:37:42):
We we're not looking at anybody else uh as being
involved in this, okay. So in light of all of that,
is there anything else that you've told me that isn't true. No,
everything else is the truth. Yes, y y, you're you're
you're being up front and honest with me.

Speaker 6 (02:38:03):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (02:38:04):
Okay, while you were planning all of planning the attack
starting approximately a month ago, when you were in the
the planning, deliberate and deliberation stage right through to uh

(02:38:28):
getting arrested, who did you talk to about this attack?

Speaker 1 (02:38:34):
Four chand four chan?

Speaker 6 (02:38:36):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:38:39):
So what do you mean by that?

Speaker 4 (02:38:40):
Meaning? I UH posted two days before the attack that
I hinted that there would be another uh Vita uprising
and that and then they'll there were replies p some
of the people. Based on the replies, I could tell
that they kind of knew what was gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (02:39:00):
Okay. Did you have any conversation with anybody else?

Speaker 4 (02:39:07):
Not in real life? What does that mean? I mean
not in person?

Speaker 2 (02:39:12):
Okay? How did you or over what uh medium? Did you? Did? You?
Did you communicate just fortune? So what do you mean
by not in real life or not in person? Who
are you speaking? Well?

Speaker 4 (02:39:25):
Real life means you're not using the computer?

Speaker 2 (02:39:28):
Right?

Speaker 6 (02:39:29):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:39:30):
So I did not inform anyone in person of these planets?

Speaker 2 (02:39:34):
Okay, outside of for chant and leaving threads or messages
on threads. Who else did you talk to using social
media or or I'm speaking specifically to individuals who specifically
did you tell no one? No one? You mentioned you

(02:39:57):
were playing s Jumper. No, but before that, you were
playing uh Call of Duty, and you've Halo Halo, and
you've played uh GDA yeah, grand theft ADOD. How did
you play these games? I mean, I know you played

(02:40:18):
them with an Xbox three sixty, with an Xbox three
sixty and where's that? Where's that Xbox three six two?
I actually no longer have one.

Speaker 4 (02:40:26):
I used to have one.

Speaker 2 (02:40:27):
Okay, where did you?

Speaker 6 (02:40:28):
Where did you?

Speaker 2 (02:40:30):
When did you get rid of it?

Speaker 4 (02:40:32):
Uh? Well, a few months ago the disc tray got jammed,
so that's why we had to get rid of it.

Speaker 2 (02:40:39):
Okay, So how did you get rid of them? We
just threw it out through in the guardage? Yes, okay.
So did you ever use the online.

Speaker 4 (02:40:50):
Uh Xbox live Xbox Live? Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:40:55):
Okay? And what was your user name on Xbox? My game?

Speaker 4 (02:40:59):
Are tag going?

Speaker 2 (02:41:00):
Xbox light side, Xbox light side, yes? All on word?

Speaker 4 (02:41:05):
Yes, any capitals, the first.

Speaker 2 (02:41:08):
Letter, first letter and in your conversations with other people
online while playing Xbox or while using Xbox. Who did
you discuss or talk to about conducting this mission?

Speaker 4 (02:41:24):
I didn't discuss it with anyone over Xbox Live.

Speaker 2 (02:41:27):
Okay, who did you discuss specifically with about this mission
using any other type of communication.

Speaker 4 (02:41:37):
Other than fortune?

Speaker 2 (02:41:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:41:39):
No one, No one.

Speaker 1 (02:41:41):
So it's fair to say no one knew that you
were planning to do this attack.

Speaker 2 (02:41:47):
Correct. Okay, I want to talk to you, and this
is very important. I want to talk to you about
this Edmonton attack that's going to take place later this year.
You said it was in what month?

Speaker 4 (02:42:04):
November fifteen, twenty eighteen, twenty eighteen.

Speaker 7 (02:42:07):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:42:08):
What more?

Speaker 4 (02:42:08):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:42:09):
What? What more information can you tell me about this
uh disimpending attack?

Speaker 4 (02:42:13):
The only information I have is that someone hinted in
the UH As a reply, he simply said that, uh,
this has Yeah, I think I know what you mean, bro,
that this uh kind of this has kind of inspired me.
I am planning something similar November fifteen this year.

Speaker 2 (02:42:39):
Okay, how do you know it was gonna be?

Speaker 4 (02:42:41):
I reply?

Speaker 6 (02:42:41):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:42:42):
It was a public post. It was a public post.
How do you know what was gonna take place in Edmonton?
Cause he said, uh, Edmonton because he said Mpton in
the post. So I if I was to go on
to Fortune, would I be able to see this post?

Speaker 7 (02:42:54):
Uh h?

Speaker 4 (02:42:55):
Due to the uh high frequ high volume, the high
frequency of posts on fortransdan or the threads get pushed
out very quickly. However, it is possible that they get
archived on some other website.

Speaker 2 (02:43:08):
Okay, And what specifically what thread was this under? Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:43:13):
It doesn't have a name because I left that field blind.

Speaker 2 (02:43:17):
Okay, So but what what subfolder is it in? There's
no subfolders outsoord So, oh, I thought you said that
there was a right right radical.

Speaker 4 (02:43:33):
Or oh it fell fallen fall under the category of alt.

Speaker 2 (02:43:36):
Right alt right? Oh it fell in. It's in the
alt right category. Yes, okay, So that's where if if
it was to be found, that's where it would be. Yes, Okay,
what other impending attacks do you know of? It? That's
the only one I know of, That's the only one.

Speaker 4 (02:43:54):
Yes, Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:43:57):
Have you have you? Have you had any other discussion
with this fella? Who who's playing this attack in Ota?

Speaker 5 (02:44:03):
No?

Speaker 6 (02:44:04):
No, who is he?

Speaker 4 (02:44:07):
I don't know. It's a it's an anonymous that's a
whole point of fortune, right right?

Speaker 2 (02:44:10):
Okay, alright? Is there anything else that you can tell
me that might help me better understand what's happened here today?

Speaker 4 (02:44:19):
There isn't anything else that can offer to be honest.

Speaker 2 (02:44:21):
Okay, Can I ask you to sit type for a
couple of seconds?

Speaker 4 (02:44:26):
Sure, that's great.

Speaker 2 (02:45:30):
I really appreciate you talking. Uh, I'm gonna be straight
up with You'll find you fascinating, I really do. I've
never met somebody like you before. And uh, this has
been quite an experience for me as much as I
think it has been for you. Can I ask you something?

(02:45:50):
How were you treated here today? Very well? Actually very well?

Speaker 6 (02:45:55):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:45:55):
And uh uh I'm talking about overall with you, from
the moment you're arrested right up to now.

Speaker 4 (02:46:03):
Yeah, it's change.

Speaker 2 (02:46:04):
Were well in terms of the way I treated you
here today.

Speaker 4 (02:46:07):
I feel well well as well as well.

Speaker 2 (02:46:09):
Okay. Uh, What's what's gonna happen here today? And are
you I don't know if you're familiar with the process.
So we're gonna We're unfortunate. We're gonna have to hold you, okay,
because we we we can't release people for certain charges
and the ones that you're facing we can't release you,

(02:46:31):
which means that you're gonna go to court tomorrow or today.
You'll you'll be in front of the judge. Okay. There
will be a lawyer there will abdicate or will defend
you on your on your on your behalf. There will
be a crown attorney or will who's the prosecutor, will
advocate for the crown or yeh the uh for for

(02:46:54):
for the for for the crown. Uh, and they will
argue in terms of UH, your your bail, your release okay.

Speaker 6 (02:47:07):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:47:08):
Following that, uh, court dates will be set in the future,
you will eventually get a way make applications to apply
for a war. They will receive your lawyer will received
the sculpture from us. They'll get a copy of this
this video. And then with meetings with the lawyer, you
can discuss what it is you you wanna do. Okay,

(02:47:33):
I'm gonna ask you this, uh cause it's important ten
people die here to think fifteen people were seriously injured.
I think it's important to ask, how do you feel
about that?

Speaker 4 (02:47:56):
I feel like, uh, I accomplished my mission.

Speaker 2 (02:47:58):
I feel like you accomplishing Yes, Okay, if the families
of those people who were murdered and were injured. We're
in this room right now. What would you say to that?

Speaker 4 (02:48:12):
I honestly don't know what I would say.

Speaker 2 (02:48:18):
Would you apologize?

Speaker 4 (02:48:21):
I honestly don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:48:26):
Okay, gonna shoot your hand?

Speaker 6 (02:48:31):
Sure, thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (02:48:36):
I appreciate that. Is there any questions you have in me?
I don't know any questions?

Speaker 6 (02:48:42):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:48:43):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (02:48:43):
If I need to speak to you again, would you
be up to that?

Speaker 4 (02:48:47):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:48:48):
Okay, Uh. I gotta just make sure there's a room aveil.
What I'm gonna do is, if you don't mind, can
I get you hang out here? sEH? I'm gonna get
an officer to come in here, and he's gonna take
you back downstairs.

Speaker 5 (02:49:00):
S uh huh.

Speaker 1 (02:49:00):
You'll be the You'll be alone in the room.

Speaker 2 (02:49:02):
Yeah. If you eat something to eat, you just let him.
I'll let him, don't. He'll get you something eat, use
a washroom and need to light down, have a sleep,
do whatever you want. Oh, you can do that all right?
Uh huh okay, siskay tight. I'll make sure off for
every thought.

Speaker 7 (02:50:02):
Four stations.

Speaker 5 (02:52:49):
Oh sir, well, I can't take you back downstairs, I
think h So, just like we did before I get
a hold onto her.

Speaker 2 (02:52:54):
I'm okay while we watch stare about okay. The day
on my clock is Tuesday, April twenty four, twenty eighteen.

(02:53:16):
Times by micclock is three or four, and we'll be
concluding this interview

All Episodes

Alek Minassian — FULL police interrogation of Canadian Terrorist Attacker CREEPY!

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Alek Minassian — FULL police interrogation of Canadian Terrorist Attacker CREEPY!